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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Two seats which UKIP won last time amongst tonight’s local ele

SystemSystem Posts: 11,017
edited April 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Two seats which UKIP won last time amongst tonight’s local elections

Elmhurst on Aylesbury Vale (UKIP defence, resignation of sitting member) Result of council at last election (2015): Conservative 43, Liberal Democrats 9, United Kingdom Independence Party 4, Labour 2, Independent 1 (Conservative majority of 27) Result of ward at last election (2015): Emboldened denotes elected Liberal Democrats 729, 652 (26%) United Kingdom Independence Party 666, 567 (23%) Labour 632, 516 (22%) Conservatives 604, 496 (21%) Green Party 220, 131 (8%) EU Referendum Result (2016): REMAIN 52,877 (49.5%), LEAVE 53,956 (50.5%) on a turnout of 78% Candidates duly nominated: Nigel Foster (Green), Phil Gomm (UKIP), Susan Morgan (Lib Dem), Gary Paxton (Lab), Ammer Raheel (Con) Weather at close of polls: Cloudy, but dry 10°C Estimate: Liberal Democrat GAIN from UKIP (Lib Dem 37%, Con 24%, Lab 21%, UKIP 13%, Green 5%)

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  • Options
    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    edited April 2017
    The premier shoe poster strikes again!!! :D
  • Options
    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    edited April 2017
    Second! The premier shoe poster strikes yet again? Can there be a hat trick?
  • Options
    RestharrowRestharrow Posts: 233
    UKIP in Aylesbury "666". That's all we need to know.
  • Options
    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    No..... :(
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Cheers for this, Mr. Hayfield.

    Mrs C, don't be sad. Two out of three ain't bad.
  • Options

    The premier shoe poster strikes again!!! :D

    Erm, I haven't posted yet and we all know I'm PB's premier shoe poster.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    Predicting UKIP to lose a council seat? What a novelty!
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    Hipperholme and Lightcliffe best name tonight.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,189
    We've just had a Lib Dem leaflet put through the door. Had it focussed entirely on the omnishambles at Surrey County Council and provision of services in the county, I might have considered voting for them. But as it they are telling me that Brexit is a complete fuck up and everyone in Woking will lose their jobs.
  • Options
    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    edited April 2017
    I see that the US Senate has extended its "simple majority" rule for confirmations introduced by the Democrats in 2013 to SCOTUS confirmations.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-04-06/gop-begins-nuclear-rule-move-to-advance-trump-high-court-pick
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,065
    Is there anyone who a year ago predicted that the Conservative party would be recovering all its lost sheep from Emma Nicholson to Mark Reckless.

    Can we expect Quentin Davies next ?
  • Options
    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    Cheers for this, Mr. Hayfield.

    Mrs C, don't be sad. Two out of three ain't bad.

    :D
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387
    Told the LDs giving it a good go in Tendring. Alas my source couldn't go as far as a prediction :/
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    Is there anyone who a year ago predicted that the Conservative party would be recovering all its lost sheep from Emma Nicholson to Mark Reckless.

    Can we expect Quentin Davies next ?

    Sheep. Lost and Found.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,231

    The premier shoe poster strikes again!!! :D

    Erm, I haven't posted yet and we all know I'm PB's premier shoe poster.
    I've heard you are Reckless in your choice of shoes. And political associates.
  • Options
    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,970
    If Bashar Al Assad finally ends up swinging from a lamp-post following military intervention by Trump, I wonder if Vlad will see the irony ...
  • Options
    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    The premier shoe poster strikes again!!! :D

    Erm, I haven't posted yet and we all know I'm PB's premier shoe poster.
    No you are not! If ladies were allowed to duel I would be sending my seconds round to agree terms. Stilettos on Deansgate at dawn ;)
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Mr. Eagles, a modern day Caligula? :p
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,974
    FPT. Michael O'Leary (of Ryanair) went into a Dublin bar and asked for a pint of Guinness.
    'Certainly, Mr O'Reilly' said the barman "That'll be a euro!'
    'That's very reasonable" said O'Leary.
    'It is" said the barman. 'Cheapest in Dublin. Will you be wanting it in a glass?'
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,917
    edited April 2017
    tlg86 said:

    We've just had a Lib Dem leaflet put through the door. Had it focussed entirely on the omnishambles at Surrey County Council and provision of services in the county, I might have considered voting for them. But as it they are telling me that Brexit is a complete fuck up and everyone in Woking will lose their jobs.

    I can send you a Focus from near me if you like, doesn't mention Brexit at all :p
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Anyway, I have to be off now, alas.

    Caligula is Latin for 'little boot' [small military sandal, to be more accurate]. His actual name was Gaius. The nickname came from when he was a boy and dressed up in miniature military gear.
  • Options
    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    Anyway, I have to be off now, alas.

    Caligula is Latin for 'little boot' [small military sandal, to be more accurate]. His actual name was Gaius. The nickname came from when he was a boy and dressed up in miniature military gear.

    Bye-eeeee!!!
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    We've just had a Lib Dem leaflet put through the door. Had it focussed entirely on the omnishambles at Surrey County Council and provision of services in the county, I might have considered voting for them. But as it they are telling me that Brexit is a complete fuck up and everyone in Woking will lose their jobs.

    I can send you a Focus from near me if you like, doesn't mention Brexit at all :p
    Nothing in the ones near me about Brexit either, from 2 so far. Was Surrey heavily remain, and so felt to be more susceptible to such a tactic?
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,231

    FPT. Michael O'Leary (of Ryanair) went into a Dublin bar and asked for a pint of Guinness.
    'Certainly, Mr O'Reilly' said the barman "That'll be a euro!'
    'That's very reasonable" said O'Leary.
    'It is" said the barman. 'Cheapest in Dublin. Will you be wanting it in a glass?'

    Like.
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    Cheers for this, Mr. Hayfield.

    Mrs C, don't be sad. Two out of three ain't bad.

    @Morris_Dancer
    Two Meatloaf references in three days? You spoil us, Sir!

  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,189
    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    We've just had a Lib Dem leaflet put through the door. Had it focussed entirely on the omnishambles at Surrey County Council and provision of services in the county, I might have considered voting for them. But as it they are telling me that Brexit is a complete fuck up and everyone in Woking will lose their jobs.

    I can send you a Focus from near me if you like, doesn't mention Brexit at all :p
    What are the issues in North East Derbyshire? What annoys me with the Lib Dems is that they are criticizing the roadworks in Woking. Essentially, part of the town has been knocked down and redesigned with a view to building another couple of blocks of flats. I'd have thought the Lib Dems would approve of building new homes.
  • Options
    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    GeoffM said:

    Cheers for this, Mr. Hayfield.

    Mrs C, don't be sad. Two out of three ain't bad.

    @Morris_Dancer
    Two Meatloaf references in three days? You spoil us, Sir!

    It is Paradise by the dashboard light.... or something like it :)
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,189
    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    We've just had a Lib Dem leaflet put through the door. Had it focussed entirely on the omnishambles at Surrey County Council and provision of services in the county, I might have considered voting for them. But as it they are telling me that Brexit is a complete fuck up and everyone in Woking will lose their jobs.

    I can send you a Focus from near me if you like, doesn't mention Brexit at all :p
    Nothing in the ones near me about Brexit either, from 2 so far. Was Surrey heavily remain, and so felt to be more susceptible to such a tactic?
    Woking was 55:45 Remain. The pitch is that a lot of the residents in Woking work in big business in London and we can't have them being inconvenienced. To be fair I can understand why they are targeting them, but now's not the time. They'd be better off pointing at the state of the road on my estate!
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,231

    GeoffM said:

    Cheers for this, Mr. Hayfield.

    Mrs C, don't be sad. Two out of three ain't bad.

    @Morris_Dancer
    Two Meatloaf references in three days? You spoil us, Sir!

    It is Paradise by the dashboard light.... or something like it :)
    No he won't do that.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,917
    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    We've just had a Lib Dem leaflet put through the door. Had it focussed entirely on the omnishambles at Surrey County Council and provision of services in the county, I might have considered voting for them. But as it they are telling me that Brexit is a complete fuck up and everyone in Woking will lose their jobs.

    I can send you a Focus from near me if you like, doesn't mention Brexit at all :p
    What are the issues in North East Derbyshire? What annoys me with the Lib Dems is that they are criticizing the roadworks in Woking. Essentially, part of the town has been knocked down and redesigned with a view to building another couple of blocks of flats. I'd have thought the Lib Dems would approve of building new homes.
    The absolute state of the (very Labour) council around here is the main focus :

    https://www.nedbd-libdems.com/news/alcoholic-drinks-historical-gesture/

    Plenty of money pissed away on other stuff too.
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    We've just had a Lib Dem leaflet put through the door. Had it focussed entirely on the omnishambles at Surrey County Council and provision of services in the county, I might have considered voting for them. But as it they are telling me that Brexit is a complete fuck up and everyone in Woking will lose their jobs.

    I can send you a Focus from near me if you like, doesn't mention Brexit at all :p
    What are the issues in North East Derbyshire? What annoys me with the Lib Dems is that they are criticizing the roadworks in Woking. Essentially, part of the town has been knocked down and redesigned with a view to building another couple of blocks of flats. I'd have thought the Lib Dems would approve of building new homes.
    The LibDems acting like hypocritical little shits for political advantage?

    Say it ain't so, Joe!
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    The premier shoe poster strikes again!!! :D

    Erm, I haven't posted yet and we all know I'm PB's premier shoe poster.
    Mrs JackW ....
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,804
    Theresa May tells Donald Tusk that Gibraltars sovereignty is non-negotiable

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/06/theresa-may-meets-donald-tusk-brexit-talks-downing-street/

    If Spain and the EU really start to push that when negotiations start properly in the Summer there must be a risk of a breakdown in talks happening virtually straight the way.

    I think there's a real risk we could be out the EU in trading under WTO rules by September?
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    DavidL said:

    GeoffM said:

    Cheers for this, Mr. Hayfield.

    Mrs C, don't be sad. Two out of three ain't bad.

    @Morris_Dancer
    Two Meatloaf references in three days? You spoil us, Sir!

    It is Paradise by the dashboard light.... or something like it :)
    No he won't do that.
    You took the words right out of my mouth...
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    theakestheakes Posts: 841
    Tendring: Lib Dem 22%, 12% maybe, even 2% but 22 ?
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,189
    This is hilarious, even by Lib Dem standards:

    Do you remember Black Tuesday? A perfect storm hit Woking commuters. As part of the re-development of Woking the Council has had to almost close the town centre to traffic*. At the same time utility companies paying out money in dividends, instead of investing in renewing their infrastructure, have water and gas pipes breaking all over town. Then, sadly, there were people hit by a train.

    That's right, because Surrey County Council is responsible for railway suicides. The utility companies have been making a dog's breakfast of the works on our estate, but I'm not sure it should make much difference in terms of redeveloping Woking. As ever with these things, the first day is chaos but once everyone gets used to the new situation, people make alternative plans and things run smoothly.

    The one thing the Lib Dems have going for them at this election is the social care situation. But even on that they aren't putting forward their plans for funding it.

    * I'd have thought that would be bliss to the Lib Dems!
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    theakes said:

    Tendring: Lib Dem 22%, 12% maybe, even 2% but 22 ?

    Low turnout, motivated and squeezed remain vote?
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,053
    edited April 2017
    GIN1138 said:

    If Spain and the EU really start to push that when negotiations start properly in the Summer there must be a risk of a breakdown in talks happening virtually straight the way.

    I think there's a real risk we could be out the EU in trading under WTO rules by September?

    No because if there's no agreement, the *only* date on which we could officially leave is March 30th, 2019. For it to be sooner, or later, requires an agreement to be ratified.

    This is above all a good reason why May can't afford for the talks to break down, because otherwise managing the domestic politics of being in purgatory for nearly 2 years would be impossible.
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    DavidL said:

    GeoffM said:

    Cheers for this, Mr. Hayfield.

    Mrs C, don't be sad. Two out of three ain't bad.

    @Morris_Dancer
    Two Meatloaf references in three days? You spoil us, Sir!

    It is Paradise by the dashboard light.... or something like it :)
    No he won't do that.
    You took the words right out of my mouth...
    .Oh it must have been while you were .....
    ...actually, on second thoughts hold that idea..
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,917
    GeoffM said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    We've just had a Lib Dem leaflet put through the door. Had it focussed entirely on the omnishambles at Surrey County Council and provision of services in the county, I might have considered voting for them. But as it they are telling me that Brexit is a complete fuck up and everyone in Woking will lose their jobs.

    I can send you a Focus from near me if you like, doesn't mention Brexit at all :p
    What are the issues in North East Derbyshire? What annoys me with the Lib Dems is that they are criticizing the roadworks in Woking. Essentially, part of the town has been knocked down and redesigned with a view to building another couple of blocks of flats. I'd have thought the Lib Dems would approve of building new homes.
    The LibDems acting like hypocritical little shits for political advantage?

    Say it ain't so, Joe!
    Shame Gibraltar isn't a UK parliamentary seat, would be an easy Lib Dem gain I think :p
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    calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    GIN1138 said:

    Theresa May tells Donald Tusk that Gibraltars sovereignty is non-negotiable

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/06/theresa-may-meets-donald-tusk-brexit-talks-downing-street/

    If Spain and the EU really start to push that when negotiations start properly in the Summer there must be a risk of a breakdown in talks happening virtually straight the way.

    I think there's a real risk we could be out the EU in trading under WTO rules by September?

    The City would struggle in many sectors
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387
    theakes said:

    Tendring: Lib Dem 22%, 12% maybe, even 2% but 22 ?

    I would have said 20% if asked. It's the absence of a candidate last time that's confusing the picture.
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    calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    Scottish party leader swaning around the US during term time !

    https://twitter.com/kezdugdale/status/792434351879389184
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Going out canvassing for Labour this weekend for the first time in 5 years. Will be an experience!
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    calum said:

    Scottish party leader swaning around the US during term time !

    twitter.com/kezdugdale/status/792434351879389184

    A bit of a difference between party leader and first minister, surely? :smiley:
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    Thank god Ed Miliband isn't around to balls it up again :p
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    RobD said:

    Thank god Ed Miliband isn't around to balls it up again :p
    His brother might be soon!
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,710
    RobD said:

    Thank god Ed Miliband isn't around to balls it up again :p
    ... but Putin is.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited April 2017
    Danny565 said:

    Going out canvassing for Labour this weekend for the first time in 5 years. Will be an experience!

    Surely several successive weekends of determined flagellation would be considerably less painful ?!?
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    Danny565 said:

    Going out canvassing for Labour this weekend for the first time in 5 years. Will be an experience!

    Can we ask, what sort of area is it? Safe seat, winnable or lost cause? Urban, suburban, city town or village?
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    calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    RobD said:

    calum said:

    Scottish party leader swaning around the US during term time !

    twitter.com/kezdugdale/status/792434351879389184

    A bit of a difference between party leader and first minister, surely? :smiley:
    Can't seem to track down many trade deals from Kez's visit !
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,917
    Danny565 said:

    Going out canvassing for Labour this weekend for the first time in 5 years. Will be an experience!

    :o !
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    calum said:

    RobD said:

    calum said:

    Scottish party leader swaning around the US during term time !

    twitter.com/kezdugdale/status/792434351879389184

    A bit of a difference between party leader and first minister, surely? :smiley:
    Can't seem to track down many trade deals from Kez's visit !
    Now you are just being cheeky :p
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    edited April 2017
    Here in a few posts is my summary of the English council elections on May 4th

    Norfolk 2013 result
    Con 40 Lab 14 LD 10 UKIP 15 Green 4 Ind 1
    No boundary changes
    My forecast
    Con 47 Lab 17 LD 13 UKIP 2 Green 3 Ind 2

    North Yorks 2013 result
    Con 45 Lab 7 LD 8 UKIP 2 Liberal 2 Ind 8
    No boundary changes
    My forecast
    Con 43 Lab 6 LD 11 UKIP 1 Liberal 1 Ind 10

    Kent 2013 result
    Con 45 Lab 13 LD 7 UKIP 17 Green 1 Ind 1
    boundary changes 3 seats fewer Con minus 2 UKIP minus 1 new notional 2013 result
    Con 43 Lab 13 LD 7 UKIP 16 Green 1 Ind 1
    My forecast
    Con 54 Lab 11 LD 9 UKIP 5 Green 1 Ind 1

    Glos 2013 result
    Con 23 Lab 9 LD 14 UKIP 3 Green 1 Ind/Others 3
    No boundary changes
    My forecast
    Con 24 Lab 9 LD 17 UKIP 0 Green 1 Ind/Others 2

    East Sussex 2013 result
    Con 20 Lab 7 LD 10 UKIP 7 Ind/Others 5
    No boundary changes
    My forecast
    Con 26 Lab 6 LD 12 UKIP 0 Ind/Others 5

    Derbyshire 2013 result
    Con 18 Lab 43 LD 3
    No boundary changes
    My forecast
    Con 24 Lab 34 LD 6
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Scott_P said:
    So... post Brexit will be the same as before just no voting rights in the EU?

    Works for me!
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,917



    Derbyshire 2013 result
    Con 18 Lab 43 LD 3
    No boundary changes
    My forecast
    Con 24 Lab 34 LD 6

    Which LD seats ?
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    Danny565 said:

    Going out canvassing for Labour this weekend for the first time in 5 years. Will be an experience!

    Can we ask, what sort of area is it? Safe seat, winnable or lost cause? Urban, suburban, city town or village?
    It's in Chester.

    Normally a fairly safe ward for Labour, but who knows these days.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Scott_P said:
    Boris has always been unashamedly pro-immigration. I respect him for that.

    Better than a two-faced Janus who speaks for restricting immigration to get votes and then seeks free movement in office.
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Pulpstar said:

    GeoffM said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    We've just had a Lib Dem leaflet put through the door. Had it focussed entirely on the omnishambles at Surrey County Council and provision of services in the county, I might have considered voting for them. But as it they are telling me that Brexit is a complete fuck up and everyone in Woking will lose their jobs.

    I can send you a Focus from near me if you like, doesn't mention Brexit at all :p
    What are the issues in North East Derbyshire? What annoys me with the Lib Dems is that they are criticizing the roadworks in Woking. Essentially, part of the town has been knocked down and redesigned with a view to building another couple of blocks of flats. I'd have thought the Lib Dems would approve of building new homes.
    The LibDems acting like hypocritical little shits for political advantage?

    Say it ain't so, Joe!
    Shame Gibraltar isn't a UK parliamentary seat, would be an easy Lib Dem gain I think :p
    Our current Chief Minister is a hypocritical duplicitous massive shit so you'd think that, yes, you'd be right. The LibDems would be a perfect fit.

    But Picardo is Socialist Labour so it'd probably be Labour with the LibDems and Conservatives battling for second.

    Graham Watson had a massive local public following when he was LD MEP for here - mostly because our local paper (The Chronic) was so far up his arse it could pick the meat out of his dentures. But don't mistake his personal vote for a UK party one.
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited April 2017

    Scott_P said:
    Boris has always been unashamedly pro-immigration. I respect him for that.

    Better than a two-faced Janus who speaks for restricting immigration to get votes and then seeks free movement in office.
    Perhaps, but on the other hand this is exactly why UKIP have a future in any likely Brexit outcome.

    Most people weren't voting to get "control" over immigration, only to then use that control to make no changes. They were voting for substantially less immigration.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,917
    Danny565 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Boris has always been unashamedly pro-immigration. I respect him for that.

    Better than a two-faced Janus who speaks for restricting immigration to get votes and then seeks free movement in office.
    Perhaps, but on the other hand this is exactly why UKIP have a future in any likely Brexit outcome.

    Most people weren't voting to get "control" over immigration, only to then use that control to make no changes. They were voting for substantially less immigration.
    The rise and fall and rise again of UKIP ?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983

    Scott_P said:
    So... post Brexit will be the same as before just no voting rights in the EU?

    Works for me!
    Only until 2022 and the end of the implementation period but that takes us through the next general election
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    edited April 2017
    The Assad regime though will still have to play a part in a new government, the 'moderate rebels' are too weak to hold off ISIS alone
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Next batch

    Worcs CC 2013 result
    Con 30 Lab 12 LD 3 UKIP 4 Green 2 ICHC 2 Liberal 1 Ind/Others 3
    No boundary changes
    My forecast
    Con 31 Lab 10 LD 7 UKIP 0 Green 2 ICHC 2 Ind/Others 5

    Suffolk 2013 result
    Con 39 Lab 15 LD 7 UKIP 9 Green 2 Ind 3
    No boundary changes
    My forecast
    Con 41 Lab 14 LD 10 UKIP 2 Green 4 Ind 4

    Hants 2013 result
    Con 45 Lab 4 LD 17 UKIP 10 Ind/Others 2
    Boundary changes Con lose 1 seat LD gain 1 seat notional result
    Con 44 Lab 4 LD 18 UKIP 10 Ind/Others 2
    My forecast
    Con 45 Lab 4 LD 26 UKIP 0 Ind/Others 3
  • Options
    GeoffM said:

    Pulpstar said:

    GeoffM said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    We've just had a Lib Dem leaflet put through the door. Had it focussed entirely on the omnishambles at Surrey County Council and provision of services in the county, I might have considered voting for them. But as it they are telling me that Brexit is a complete fuck up and everyone in Woking will lose their jobs.

    I can send you a Focus from near me if you like, doesn't mention Brexit at all :p
    What are the issues in North East Derbyshire? What annoys me with the Lib Dems is that they are criticizing the roadworks in Woking. Essentially, part of the town has been knocked down and redesigned with a view to building another couple of blocks of flats. I'd have thought the Lib Dems would approve of building new homes.
    The LibDems acting like hypocritical little shits for political advantage?

    Say it ain't so, Joe!
    Shame Gibraltar isn't a UK parliamentary seat, would be an easy Lib Dem gain I think :p
    Our current Chief Minister is a hypocritical duplicitous massive shit so you'd think that, yes, you'd be right. The LibDems would be a perfect fit.

    But Picardo is Socialist Labour so it'd probably be Labour with the LibDems and Conservatives battling for second.

    Graham Watson had a massive local public following when he was LD MEP for here - mostly because our local paper (The Chronic) was so far up his arse it could pick the meat out of his dentures. But don't mistake his personal vote for a UK party one.
    The Lib Dems won it at a canter in 2014 - 67%, with 17% Tory and 9% Labour. I take what you say about Watson, but people were, in fact, voting for party lists and this was clear on the ballot paper. And, with Brexit battle lines drawn, it would surely be at least as comprehensive were it to happen?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    Danny565 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Boris has always been unashamedly pro-immigration. I respect him for that.

    Better than a two-faced Janus who speaks for restricting immigration to get votes and then seeks free movement in office.
    Perhaps, but on the other hand this is exactly why UKIP have a future in any likely Brexit outcome.

    Most people weren't voting to get "control" over immigration, only to then use that control to make no changes. They were voting for substantially less immigration.
    With free movement likely to continue now through 2020 to ensure a transition deal that certainly gives UKIP a platform to go hard on immigration at the next election, May will have to hold off the LDs on the one hand trying to take us back into the EU, Labour to secure us in the single market and UKIP trying to take us to hard Brexit straight away
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    calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    Is Boris a Remainer sleeper agent ?
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    FPT
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    MTimT said:

    Sad to see this story:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/education-39504338

    I don't know the merits of the particular case, but I do strongly dislike the nanny state that thinks it is in all cases (as indicated by legislating on the matter) a better judge than the parents on what is best for the kid. In my view, it is the exception, rather than the rule, both that parents make bad decisions for their kids, and that government is even in a position to have the facts to decide what is truly in the kid's interests.

    Personally, I think all kids should travel more and all kids should spend more time with their parents. Admittedly, not all travel is equal in terms of its positive impact on a kid's education, inquisitiveness and openness to other cultures and ways of doing things, but even a beach holiday in Ibiza can open eyes and widen horizons.

    Considering the child was 6 years old the judgement is ludicrous. The law has been brought into disrepute with these sorts of cases.
    Problem is once a few kid's start taking holidays in term time half the class will soon be empty and holiday companies will just raise their prices in term time anyway
    So what? Especially if the child is 6.

    Besides it isn't just about holiday prices. Some parents can't get time off during the school holidays, what are they supposed to do? Never go on a holiday? Never spend time with their children?
    Most companies allow a set period of annual leave, school holidays fall in the summer Easter and Christmas and half term plenty of time to fit in a fortnight break and once you open the floodgates you risk endless problems of pupil absence in term time, catch up classes etc
    "Most" is not all. You speak about the summer, Easter and Christmas as if every person universally gets them off. Yet funnily enough while you're off enjoying your jolly's those who work in certain industries like those in leisure and hospitality who are sweating through the busiest time of year trying to work hard to ensure you have your fun!

    It is bad enough having to work while others have their fun, but then to be told you can't take your child away for a week's vacation when its your turn for a break once others have returned to work and you can now finally take a break? Be reasonable!
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,915
    Pulpstar said:

    Danny565 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Boris has always been unashamedly pro-immigration. I respect him for that.

    Better than a two-faced Janus who speaks for restricting immigration to get votes and then seeks free movement in office.
    Perhaps, but on the other hand this is exactly why UKIP have a future in any likely Brexit outcome.

    Most people weren't voting to get "control" over immigration, only to then use that control to make no changes. They were voting for substantially less immigration.
    The rise and fall and rise again of UKIP ?
    UKIP didn't get where they are today by being soft on immigration!
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Danny565 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Boris has always been unashamedly pro-immigration. I respect him for that.

    Better than a two-faced Janus who speaks for restricting immigration to get votes and then seeks free movement in office.
    Perhaps, but on the other hand this is exactly why UKIP have a future in any likely Brexit outcome.

    Most people weren't voting to get "control" over immigration, only to then use that control to make no changes. They were voting for substantially less immigration.
    UKIP have about as much of a future as the BNP have a past.
  • Options

    Next batch

    Worcs CC 2013 result
    Con 30 Lab 12 LD 3 UKIP 4 Green 2 ICHC 2 Liberal 1 Ind/Others 3
    No boundary changes
    My forecast
    Con 31 Lab 10 LD 7 UKIP 0 Green 2 ICHC 2 Ind/Others 5

    Suffolk 2013 result
    Con 39 Lab 15 LD 7 UKIP 9 Green 2 Ind 3
    No boundary changes
    My forecast
    Con 41 Lab 14 LD 10 UKIP 2 Green 4 Ind 4

    Hants 2013 result
    Con 45 Lab 4 LD 17 UKIP 10 Ind/Others 2
    Boundary changes Con lose 1 seat LD gain 1 seat notional result
    Con 44 Lab 4 LD 18 UKIP 10 Ind/Others 2
    My forecast
    Con 45 Lab 4 LD 26 UKIP 0 Ind/Others 3

    Mark, please can you confirm - are you forecasting fairly marginal seat changes, with a few up or down either way, or do your figures hide a lot of "churn"?
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited April 2017
    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Danny565 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Boris has always been unashamedly pro-immigration. I respect him for that.

    Better than a two-faced Janus who speaks for restricting immigration to get votes and then seeks free movement in office.
    Perhaps, but on the other hand this is exactly why UKIP have a future in any likely Brexit outcome.

    Most people weren't voting to get "control" over immigration, only to then use that control to make no changes. They were voting for substantially less immigration.
    The rise and fall and rise again of UKIP ?
    UKIP didn't get where they are today by being soft on immigration!
    I can't see the average Kipper voter from 2015 being happy with immigration carrying on as now, but being comforted by the fact the British government might technically have the "control" to change it but choose not to.

    IMO, the main reason that so many Kippers have gone back to the Tories since the referendum is precisely because they think May's going to get a big cut in numbers of immigrants as soon as we're officially Out.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,105
    edited April 2017
    GeoffM said:

    Cheers for this, Mr. Hayfield.

    Mrs C, don't be sad. Two out of three ain't bad.

    @Morris_Dancer
    Two Meatloaf references in three days? You spoil us, Sir!

    The Good Lady Wifi wrote a song on a Meatloaf album.

    She was also - well, stalked may be a bit strong but about covers it - by Jim Steinman. He said Meatloaf had recommended her to work on Bat Out Of Hell 2. She went out for dinner with Jim - commenting that the restaurant was very quiet. To be told he had booked the whole restaurant. So they wouldn't be disturbed.

    And when she asked for a menu, he said he had had already ordered. Everything on the menu....duly turned up on a series of trolleys...

    So she ran away from a mighty lucrative record. No regrets though.
  • Options
    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    So... post Brexit will be the same as before just no voting rights in the EU?

    Works for me!
    Only until 2022 and the end of the implementation period but that takes us through the next general election
    A week is a long time in politics - how about five years?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    edited April 2017

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    MTimT said:

    Sad to see this story:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/education-39504338

    I don't know the merits of the particular case, but I do strongly dislike the nanny state that thinks it is in all cases (as indicated by legislating on the matter) a better judge than the parents on what is best for the kid. In my view,.

    Considering the child was 6 years old the judgement is ludicrous. The law has been brought into disrepute with these sorts of cases.
    Problem is once a few kid's start taking holidays in term time half the class will soon be empty and holiday companies will just raise their prices in term time anyway
    So what? Especially if the child is 6.

    Besides it isn't just about holiday prices. Some parents can't get time off during the school holidays, what are they supposed to do? Never go on a holiday? Never spend time with their children?
    Most companies allow a set period of annual leave, school holidays fall in the summer Easter and Christmas and half term plenty of time to fit in a fortnight break and once you open the floodgates you risk endless problems of pupil absence in term time, catch up classes etc
    "Most" is not all. You speak about the summer, Easter and Christmas as if every person universally gets them off. Yet funnily enough while you're off enjoying your jolly's those who work in certain industries like those in leisure and hospitality who are sweating through the busiest time of year trying to work hard to ensure you have your fun!

    It is bad enough having to work while others have their fun, but then to be told you can't take your child away for a week's vacation when its your turn for a break once others have returned to work and you can now finally take a break? Be reasonable!
    As I also said I would consider allowing each pupil 2 weeks off in termtime a year, provided parents were willing to help their children with the necessary revision to catch up and no more than 10% of the class were absent in any one week. It is all very well too saying a few parents are hit by not being able to take holiday in termtime but allowing parents to take their children out of school whenever they wanted would also be very disruptive to teachers who have to organise timetables and get through the syllabus each year without endlessly having to go over last week's topics again because half the class was on holiday
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited April 2017

    Danny565 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Boris has always been unashamedly pro-immigration. I respect him for that.

    Better than a two-faced Janus who speaks for restricting immigration to get votes and then seeks free movement in office.
    Perhaps, but on the other hand this is exactly why UKIP have a future in any likely Brexit outcome.

    Most people weren't voting to get "control" over immigration, only to then use that control to make no changes. They were voting for substantially less immigration.
    UKIP have about as much of a future as the BNP have a past.
    The main driver of UKIP support between 2012 and 2016 was high levels of immigration. If you don't think immigration levels are going to change, why do you think UKIP couldn't benefit from it in the exact same way as they've done in the past?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    So... post Brexit will be the same as before just no voting rights in the EU?

    Works for me!
    Only until 2022 and the end of the implementation period but that takes us through the next general election
    A week is a long time in politics - how about five years?
    By 2019 we would still have left the EU even if there was an implementation period
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,936

    Scott_P said:
    So... post Brexit will be the same as before just no voting rights in the EU?

    Works for me!
    I never cease to be staggered by the ignorance displayed by some on here regarding the EU and our relationship with it. If you think freedom of movement was the only area where the EU affected us then you really are dumber than a bag of rocks.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    FPT
    TOPPING said:

    Re: term-holidays
    The reason for this is probably the same as the reason we can't have lots of nice things we'd like: people taking the piss.

    Another way of thinking about it: if you want the state to educate your child, you have to abide by the state's rules. Discuss...

    And yet they are not going after those taking the piss. They are instead criminalising the otherwise law abiding so it looks like they are doing something. Discuss.
    A different judgement would have been a significant indicator that it would be fine to take children out of school during term time. Now, I'm sure the vast majority of parents wouldn't do so because they recognise the damage it might do, but that leaves a significant number of parents who would perceive this as a green light. With the concomitant disruption to both the children taken out of school, and those left behind, that that would entail.

    Find me an educator who disagrees with the judgement.
    Find me an educator who has to work through the entire school holidays.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,915
    Danny565 said:

    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Danny565 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Boris has always been unashamedly pro-immigration. I respect him for that.

    Better than a two-faced Janus who speaks for restricting immigration to get votes and then seeks free movement in office.
    Perhaps, but on the other hand this is exactly why UKIP have a future in any likely Brexit outcome.

    Most people weren't voting to get "control" over immigration, only to then use that control to make no changes. They were voting for substantially less immigration.
    The rise and fall and rise again of UKIP ?
    UKIP didn't get where they are today by being soft on immigration!
    I can't see the average Kipper voter from 2015 being happy with immigration carrying on as now, but being comforted by the fact the British government might technically have the "control" to change it but choose not to.

    IMO, the main reason that so many Kippers have gone back to the Tories since the referendum is precisely because they think May's going to get a big cut in numbers of immigrants as soon as we're officially Out.
    Inclined to agree with you. I am quite comforted by the fact that the govt have control over it. If people aren't happy they will vote accordingly, It will be interesting to see what happens.
  • Options
    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    edited April 2017

    Next batch

    Worcs CC 2013 result
    Con 30 Lab 12 LD 3 UKIP 4 Green 2 ICHC 2 Liberal 1 Ind/Others 3
    No boundary changes
    My forecast
    Con 31 Lab 10 LD 7 UKIP 0 Green 2 ICHC 2 Ind/Others 5

    Suffolk 2013 result
    Con 39 Lab 15 LD 7 UKIP 9 Green 2 Ind 3
    No boundary changes
    My forecast
    Con 41 Lab 14 LD 10 UKIP 2 Green 4 Ind 4

    Hants 2013 result
    Con 45 Lab 4 LD 17 UKIP 10 Ind/Others 2
    Boundary changes Con lose 1 seat LD gain 1 seat notional result
    Con 44 Lab 4 LD 18 UKIP 10 Ind/Others 2
    My forecast
    Con 45 Lab 4 LD 26 UKIP 0 Ind/Others 3

    Mark, please can you confirm - are you forecasting fairly marginal seat changes, with a few up or down either way, or do your figures hide a lot of "churn"?
    More churn than the figures imply , UKIP losing seats to Con for example but Con losing seats to LD . Playing a bridge match now , more posts later .
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    edited April 2017
    GIN1138 said:

    Theresa May tells Donald Tusk that Gibraltars sovereignty is non-negotiable

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/06/theresa-may-meets-donald-tusk-brexit-talks-downing-street/

    If Spain and the EU really start to push that when negotiations start properly in the Summer there must be a risk of a breakdown in talks happening virtually straight the way.

    I think there's a real risk we could be out the EU in trading under WTO rules by September?

    Early on, I argued that now is not the time to negotiate a mutually beneficial deal. Rather we should leave unconditionally, falling back on WTO, and then, say in 2-5 years, negotiate the deal as outsiders, with whom the EU would be mad not to do a deal, rather as supplicant leavers trying to preserve as much as we can of what is not on offer. Briefly, I thought I had been wrong to think as I did.

    Admittedly, negotiations have not started yet, so it is all posturing at the moment. But if the EU does not come off some of its positions, then I'll be quickly back to arguing for just leave, no negotiations.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    edited April 2017

    FPT

    TOPPING said:

    Re: term-holidays
    The reason for this is probably the same as the reason we can't have lots of nice things we'd like: people taking the piss.

    Another way of thinking about it: if you want the state to educate your child, you have to abide by the state's rules. Discuss...

    And yet they are not going after those taking the piss. They are instead criminalising the otherwise law abiding so it looks like they are doing something. Discuss.
    A different judgement would have been a significant indicator that it would be fine to take children out of school during term time. Now, I'm sure the vast majority of parents wouldn't do so because they recognise the damage it might do, but that leaves a significant number of parents who would perceive this as a green light. With the concomitant disruption to both the children taken out of school, and those left behind, that that would entail.

    Find me an educator who disagrees with the judgement.
    Find me an educator who has to work through the entire school holidays.
    Educators don't go and remove the customers of parents when they feel like it with all the disruption that does to their working day but as I said a 2 week annual termtime holiday allowance per pupil would be a reasonable compromise
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,710
    isam said:

    Danny565 said:

    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Danny565 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Boris has always been unashamedly pro-immigration. I respect him for that.

    Better than a two-faced Janus who speaks for restricting immigration to get votes and then seeks free movement in office.
    Perhaps, but on the other hand this is exactly why UKIP have a future in any likely Brexit outcome.

    Most people weren't voting to get "control" over immigration, only to then use that control to make no changes. They were voting for substantially less immigration.
    The rise and fall and rise again of UKIP ?
    UKIP didn't get where they are today by being soft on immigration!
    I can't see the average Kipper voter from 2015 being happy with immigration carrying on as now, but being comforted by the fact the British government might technically have the "control" to change it but choose not to.

    IMO, the main reason that so many Kippers have gone back to the Tories since the referendum is precisely because they think May's going to get a big cut in numbers of immigrants as soon as we're officially Out.
    Inclined to agree with you. I am quite comforted by the fact that the govt have control over it. If people aren't happy they will vote accordingly, It will be interesting to see what happens.
    Fewer European immigrants, more non-EU immigrants?
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    HYUFD said:

    FPT

    TOPPING said:

    Re: term-holidays
    The reason for this is probably the same as the reason we can't have lots of nice things we'd like: people taking the piss.

    Another way of thinking about it: if you want the state to educate your child, you have to abide by the state's rules. Discuss...

    And yet they are not going after those taking the piss. They are instead criminalising the otherwise law abiding so it looks like they are doing something. Discuss.
    A different judgement would have been a significant indicator that it would be fine to take children out of school during term time. Now, I'm sure the vast majority of parents wouldn't do so because they recognise the damage it might do, but that leaves a significant number of parents who would perceive this as a green light. With the concomitant disruption to both the children taken out of school, and those left behind, that that would entail.

    Find me an educator who disagrees with the judgement.
    Find me an educator who has to work through the entire school holidays.
    Educators don't go and remove the customers of parents when they feel like it with all the disruption that does to their working day but as I said a 2 week annual termtime holiday allowance per pupil would be a reasonable compromise
    It's the educators and the government [and this judgement] that are objecting to flexibility to take 2 weeks off not me.

    It is a ridiculous situation whereby parents have an entitlement to 5.6 weeks off per year but not one of those days is fixed (some businesses are open 365 days a year), while students get 0 flexible days off per year.
  • Options

    Next batch

    Worcs CC 2013 result
    Con 30 Lab 12 LD 3 UKIP 4 Green 2 ICHC 2 Liberal 1 Ind/Others 3
    No boundary changes
    My forecast
    Con 31 Lab 10 LD 7 UKIP 0 Green 2 ICHC 2 Ind/Others 5

    Suffolk 2013 result
    Con 39 Lab 15 LD 7 UKIP 9 Green 2 Ind 3
    No boundary changes
    My forecast
    Con 41 Lab 14 LD 10 UKIP 2 Green 4 Ind 4

    Hants 2013 result
    Con 45 Lab 4 LD 17 UKIP 10 Ind/Others 2
    Boundary changes Con lose 1 seat LD gain 1 seat notional result
    Con 44 Lab 4 LD 18 UKIP 10 Ind/Others 2
    My forecast
    Con 45 Lab 4 LD 26 UKIP 0 Ind/Others 3

    Mark, please can you confirm - are you forecasting fairly marginal seat changes, with a few up or down either way, or do your figures hide a lot of "churn"?
    More churn than the figures imply , UKIP losing seats to Con for example but Con losing seats to LD . Playing a bridge match now , more posts later .
    Interesting - thanks.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    RobD said:

    calum said:

    Scottish party leader swaning around the US during term time !

    twitter.com/kezdugdale/status/792434351879389184

    A bit of a difference between party leader and first minister, surely? :smiley:
    Yes, one did it whilst parliament was sitting and the other didn't
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    Alistair said:

    RobD said:

    calum said:

    Scottish party leader swaning around the US during term time !

    twitter.com/kezdugdale/status/792434351879389184

    A bit of a difference between party leader and first minister, surely? :smiley:
    Yes, one did it whilst parliament was sitting and the other didn't
    Well, it has been a relatively light legislative session... :p
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,262
    MTimT said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Theresa May tells Donald Tusk that Gibraltars sovereignty is non-negotiable

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/06/theresa-may-meets-donald-tusk-brexit-talks-downing-street/

    If Spain and the EU really start to push that when negotiations start properly in the Summer there must be a risk of a breakdown in talks happening virtually straight the way.

    I think there's a real risk we could be out the EU in trading under WTO rules by September?

    Early on, I argued that now is not the time to negotiate a mutually beneficial deal. Rather we should leave unconditionally, falling back on WTO, and then, say in 2-5 years, negotiate the deal as outsiders, with whom the EU would be mad not to do a deal, rather as supplicant leavers trying to preserve as much as we can of what is not on offer. Briefly, I thought I had been wrong to think as I did.

    Admittedly, negotiations have not started yet, so it is all posturing at the moment. But if the EU does not come off some of its positions, then I'll be quickly back to arguing for just leave, no negotiations.
    Cutting your nose options aren't going to fly in the real (or even unreal) world of politics, though, are they?
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,915

    isam said:

    Danny565 said:

    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Danny565 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Boris has always been unashamedly pro-immigration. I respect him for that.

    Better than a two-faced Janus who speaks for restricting immigration to get votes and then seeks free movement in office.
    Perhaps, but on the other hand this is exactly why UKIP have a future in any likely Brexit outcome.

    Most people weren't voting to get "control" over immigration, only to then use that control to make no changes. They were voting for substantially less immigration.
    The rise and fall and rise again of UKIP ?
    UKIP didn't get where they are today by being soft on immigration!
    I can't see the average Kipper voter from 2015 being happy with immigration carrying on as now, but being comforted by the fact the British government might technically have the "control" to change it but choose not to.

    IMO, the main reason that so many Kippers have gone back to the Tories since the referendum is precisely because they think May's going to get a big cut in numbers of immigrants as soon as we're officially Out.
    Inclined to agree with you. I am quite comforted by the fact that the govt have control over it. If people aren't happy they will vote accordingly, It will be interesting to see what happens.
    Fewer European immigrants, more non-EU immigrants?
    Wouldn't want to guess. At least the powers that be know people are not happy with the old way. Lets see what they come up with
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    IanB2 said:

    MTimT said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Theresa May tells Donald Tusk that Gibraltars sovereignty is non-negotiable

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/06/theresa-may-meets-donald-tusk-brexit-talks-downing-street/

    If Spain and the EU really start to push that when negotiations start properly in the Summer there must be a risk of a breakdown in talks happening virtually straight the way.

    I think there's a real risk we could be out the EU in trading under WTO rules by September?

    Early on, I argued that now is not the time to negotiate a mutually beneficial deal. Rather we should leave unconditionally, falling back on WTO, and then, say in 2-5 years, negotiate the deal as outsiders, with whom the EU would be mad not to do a deal, rather as supplicant leavers trying to preserve as much as we can of what is not on offer. Briefly, I thought I had been wrong to think as I did.

    Admittedly, negotiations have not started yet, so it is all posturing at the moment. But if the EU does not come off some of its positions, then I'll be quickly back to arguing for just leave, no negotiations.
    Cutting your nose options aren't going to fly in the real (or even unreal) world of politics, though, are they?
    Reversion to WTO may not be so much cutting your nose off as you assume, particularly if we are not going to be offered anything on services anyway. An FTA limited to goods punishes the UK and all the benefits go to the EU.

    Getting the basis for the future relationship right from the start may cost us in the short term, but is far better in the longer term than settling for a one-sided relationship. That, to me, is not just cutting off one's nose, it is selling yourself into servitude.
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    calum said:
    First, I'm not really sure a lot of people understand what "free movement of people" is (I always used to think it meant going through Customs with fewer checks when going on holiday, rather than a right to emigrate permanently).

    Second, even on those figures, 29% is a pretty good target pool for UKIP, by their standards.
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited April 2017
    MTimT said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Theresa May tells Donald Tusk that Gibraltars sovereignty is non-negotiable

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/06/theresa-may-meets-donald-tusk-brexit-talks-downing-street/

    If Spain and the EU really start to push that when negotiations start properly in the Summer there must be a risk of a breakdown in talks happening virtually straight the way.

    I think there's a real risk we could be out the EU in trading under WTO rules by September?

    Early on, I argued that now is not the time to negotiate a mutually beneficial deal. Rather we should leave unconditionally, falling back on WTO, and then, say in 2-5 years, negotiate the deal as outsiders, with whom the EU would be mad not to do a deal, rather as supplicant leavers trying to preserve as much as we can of what is not on offer. Briefly, I thought I had been wrong to think as I did.

    Admittedly, negotiations have not started yet, so it is all posturing at the moment. But if the EU does not come off some of its positions, then I'll be quickly back to arguing for just leave, no negotiations.
    TM the PM is certainly correct in saying that no deal is better than a bad deal. The only proviso is that we need to have our plan in place to act on a WTO scenario.

    I think the chances of there not being a deal that at least carries us twelve months forward up to 29 March 2020 are pretty slim.All the major players have an interest in doing a deal.

  • Options
    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    Scott_P said:
    So... post Brexit will be the same as before just no voting rights in the EU?

    Works for me!
    I never cease to be staggered by the ignorance displayed by some on here regarding the EU and our relationship with it. If you think freedom of movement was the only area where the EU affected us then you really are dumber than a bag of rocks.
    Since when did I have to make my goals coincide with yours?

  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    chestnut said:

    TM the PM is certainly correct in saying that no deal is better than a bad deal.

    Bollocks
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    calum said:
    So 35% (D/Ks excluded) are in no mood to compromise. At a General Election, that's almost enough to win power.
This discussion has been closed.