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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Terrible night for UKIP in latest locals losing the two seats

SystemSystem Posts: 11,008
edited April 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Terrible night for UKIP in latest locals losing the two seats it won last time. LDs & CON the gainers

Elmhurst on Aylesbury Vale (UKIP defence, resignation of sitting member) Result: Liberal Democrat 785 (64% +38%), Labour 151 (12% -10%), Conservative 147 (12% -9%), United Kingdom Independence Party 111 (9% -14%), Green Party 43 (4% -4%) Liberal Democrat GAIN from United Kingdom Independence Party with a majority of 634 (52%) on a swing of 24% from Labour to Liberal Democrat (26% from UKIP to Lib Dem)

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Comments

  • Options
    tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,546
    edited April 2017
    First like the Lib Dems in Elmhurst in Aylesbury.

    I actually visited Elmhurst on Wednesday afternoon and spent the afternoon delivering in the spring sunshine. The Lib Dem team were clearly well organised, up for the fight, and very hopeful of a win. I understand that the main concern was over UKIP - however their vote really melted away even with a well known and decent candidate. UKIP are defending Bucks County Council seats in Aylesbury next month, this bodes very well for the Lib Dems looking to take them back as well.

    I confess that I wouldn't have guessed there was a by-election on if I hadn't been there for political reasons. It's interesting how we assume that political life is far more central to daily life than it really is, simply reminding people that there was an election the next day was far more important than any nuanced messages or campaign points.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @paulwaugh: Corbyn TV clip on US air strikes due soon. @EmilyThornberry will lead on lunchtime media. Not sure where Shad Def Sec @NiaGriffithMP fits in
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187
    Should that not have been "a terrrrrrrible night for UKIP"?
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,966
    Currently we appear to be having a soft Brexit week in fast-moving, bipolar Brexit world. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell us how if that continues, the UKIPs will be BACK!
  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Thanks as ever, @HarryHayfield. But 0% notional Con --> LD swing for the last of these, surely?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903
    tlg86 said:

    Should that not have been "a terrrrrrrible night for UKIP"?

    RIP Mr Anthony King :(
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,946
    edited April 2017
    Perhaps explains why Nuttal now leading the opposition to May's support for the US strike alongside Corbyn while Farron fully behind May, UKIP trying to differentiate themselves from the government post Brexit as they will over immigration too
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    HYUFD said:

    Perhaps explains why Nuttal now leading the opposition to May's support for the US strike alongside Corbyn while Farron fully behind May, UKIP trying to differentiate themselves from the government post Brexit as they will over immigration too

    The alternative, and I think more convincing, explanation, is that UKIP are all over the place.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,161
    Scott_P said:

    @paulwaugh: Corbyn TV clip on US air strikes due soon. @EmilyThornberry will lead on lunchtime media. Not sure where Shad Def Sec @NiaGriffithMP fits in

    What time is the policy reversal due?
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187

    HYUFD said:

    Perhaps explains why Nuttal now leading the opposition to May's support for the US strike alongside Corbyn while Farron fully behind May, UKIP trying to differentiate themselves from the government post Brexit as they will over immigration too

    The alternative, and I think more convincing, explanation, is that UKIP are all over the place.
    Yes, I'm not impressed with Nuttall's response. You can support a proportionate response and continue to hold a sceptical view over further intervention.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,946
    edited April 2017
    Melenchon lines up with Le Pen behind Assad and Putin and condemns Hollande for supporting Trumps strike
    https://mobile.twitter.com/election_data/status/850314235221614593
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2017
    'Cricket lie' wife-attacker Mustafa Bashir jailed
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39529714

    Looks like his dreams of playing county cricket are over...Dreams being the operative word.
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Should that not have been "a terrrrrrrible night for UKIP"?

    RIP Mr Anthony King :(
    Why do I get the feeling I'm going to start having to call you Councillor Pulpstar next month ?
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,921

    'Cricket lie' wife-attacker Mustafa Bashir jailed
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39529714

    Good.

    Even if it was true that he had signed for a club, it should not have altered the judgement. That's what's so off about the whole thing IMO: the judge got it utterly wrong.
  • Options
    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,292

    Currently we appear to be having a soft Brexit week in fast-moving, bipolar Brexit world. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell us how if that continues, the UKIPs will be BACK!

    That's heartening news. Everyone sensible wants a Mr Whippy soft Brexit - full membership of the whole alphabet soup of EFTA, EEA, ECJ, ECHR etc. Immigration as it was. Full adherence to EU trading standards and workers rights. Full adherence to EU environmental guidelines. (We'll give the Leavers a blue passport as a token gesture of our good will, and they'll be content with that.)
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903

    'Cricket lie' wife-attacker Mustafa Bashir jailed
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39529714

    Good.

    Even if it was true that he had signed for a club, it should not have altered the judgement. That's what's so off about the whole thing IMO: the judge got it utterly wrong.
    I find it utterly extraordinary that a potential contract of employment could alter a sentence so much.
    18 months is a bit more like it, I assume it'll be 9 in then 9 out on tag ?
  • Options
    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,987

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Should that not have been "a terrrrrrrible night for UKIP"?

    RIP Mr Anthony King :(
    Why do I get the feeling I'm going to start having to call you Councillor Pulpstar next month ?
    :)
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    Pulpstar said:

    'Cricket lie' wife-attacker Mustafa Bashir jailed
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39529714

    Good.

    Even if it was true that he had signed for a club, it should not have altered the judgement. That's what's so off about the whole thing IMO: the judge got it utterly wrong.
    I find it utterly extraordinary that a potential contract of employment could alter a sentence so much.
    18 months is a bit more like it, I assume it'll be 9 in then 9 out on tag ?
    I suspect the sentence now is harsher than it would have been had he not made the claim. Not sure why he isn't also being prosecuted for perjury.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,299
    edited April 2017
    Pulpstar said:

    'Cricket lie' wife-attacker Mustafa Bashir jailed
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39529714

    Good.

    Even if it was true that he had signed for a club, it should not have altered the judgement. That's what's so off about the whole thing IMO: the judge got it utterly wrong.
    I find it utterly extraordinary that a potential contract of employment could alter a sentence so much.
    18 months is a bit more like it, I assume it'll be 9 in then 9 out on tag ?
    He'll be released in 4 and a half months time, then spend 4 and a half months on tag, then the last nine months on licence.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,921
    edited April 2017
    In other news, and fpt, the report into the Garden Bridge is hilariously scathing:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/07_04_17_garden_bridge_report.pdf

    "Decisions on the Garden Bridge were driven by electoral cycles rather than value for money."

    "The project has already used £37.4 million of public money and the agreement to underwrite
    cancellation costs by the Government could bring the bill to the taxpayer up to £46.4 million."

    "These were not open, fair or competitive procurements"

    "It is my view that there was no agreement among those to whom I talked about the purpose
    of the Garden Bridge. "

    And on, and on. Everyone involved with this sordid scheme should be forced to pay back the public's money.

    Edit: and
    "Boris Johnson himself reflected the confusion of purpose when he was asked about it by The New Civil Engineer, in January 2014. They reported he "wasn’t really sure what it was for", other than making a "wonderful environment for a crafty cigarette or a romantic assignation."

    Way to spend our money, Boris!
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,901
    edited April 2017

    HYUFD said:

    Perhaps explains why Nuttal now leading the opposition to May's support for the US strike alongside Corbyn while Farron fully behind May, UKIP trying to differentiate themselves from the government post Brexit as they will over immigration too

    The alternative, and I think more convincing, explanation, is that UKIP are all over the place.
    Have ukip ever supported bombing the Middle East?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903

    Pulpstar said:

    'Cricket lie' wife-attacker Mustafa Bashir jailed
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39529714

    Good.

    Even if it was true that he had signed for a club, it should not have altered the judgement. That's what's so off about the whole thing IMO: the judge got it utterly wrong.
    I find it utterly extraordinary that a potential contract of employment could alter a sentence so much.
    18 months is a bit more like it, I assume it'll be 9 in then 9 out on tag ?
    He'll be released in 4 and a half months time, then spend 4 and a half months on tag, then the last nine months on licence.
    Even my bleeding liberal heart finds that a bit short in the clink. But thems the rules I guess.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903
    isam said:

    HYUFD said:

    Perhaps explains why Nuttal now leading the opposition to May's support for the US strike alongside Corbyn while Farron fully behind May, UKIP trying to differentiate themselves from the government post Brexit as they will over immigration too

    The alternative, and I think more convincing, explanation, is that UKIP are all over the place.
    Have ukip ever supported bombing the Middle East?
    Five hours ago

    https://twitter.com/DavidCoburnUKip/status/850242829301366785
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,901
    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    HYUFD said:

    Perhaps explains why Nuttal now leading the opposition to May's support for the US strike alongside Corbyn while Farron fully behind May, UKIP trying to differentiate themselves from the government post Brexit as they will over immigration too

    The alternative, and I think more convincing, explanation, is that UKIP are all over the place.
    Have ukip ever supported bombing the Middle East?
    Five hours ago

    https://twitter.com/DavidCoburnUKip/status/850242829301366785
    There you go! The party is split!!
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Should that not have been "a terrrrrrrible night for UKIP"?

    RIP Mr Anthony King :(
    Why do I get the feeling I'm going to start having to call you Councillor Pulpstar next month ?
    Do we have a sense of how many councillors there are on PB?
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,161
    Scott_P said:
    Dugher, MP: “Stop criticising Corbyn's slow response: it takes time for Seamas [sic] to run the draft statement by the Kremlin, Stop the War + the Morning Star.”
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/davieclegg/status/850318550552203265

    Uh oh.. I hope malc doesn't see this :D
  • Options
    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,907
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    'Cricket lie' wife-attacker Mustafa Bashir jailed
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39529714

    Good.

    Even if it was true that he had signed for a club, it should not have altered the judgement. That's what's so off about the whole thing IMO: the judge got it utterly wrong.
    I find it utterly extraordinary that a potential contract of employment could alter a sentence so much.
    18 months is a bit more like it, I assume it'll be 9 in then 9 out on tag ?
    He'll be released in 4 and a half months time, then spend 4 and a half months on tag, then the last nine months on licence.
    Even my bleeding liberal heart finds that a bit short in the clink. But thems the rules I guess.
    Yep i agree.
    Its difficult because i want the punishment to be big in cases like this... But at the same time recognise that prison tends to make things worse when the person does get out...
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903

    In other news, and fpt, the report into the Garden Bridge is hilariously scathing:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/07_04_17_garden_bridge_report.pdf

    "Decisions on the Garden Bridge were driven by electoral cycles rather than value for money."

    "The project has already used £37.4 million of public money and the agreement to underwrite
    cancellation costs by the Government could bring the bill to the taxpayer up to £46.4 million."

    "These were not open, fair or competitive procurements"

    "It is my view that there was no agreement among those to whom I talked about the purpose
    of the Garden Bridge. "

    And on, and on. Everyone involved with this sordid scheme should be forced to pay back the public's money.

    Edit: and
    "Boris Johnson himself reflected the confusion of purpose when he was asked about it by The New Civil Engineer, in January 2014. They reported he "wasn’t really sure what it was for", other than making a "wonderful environment for a crafty cigarette or a romantic assignation."

    Way to spend our money, Boris!

    @Charles will be along shortly to assure us it was a good use of public money.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,901

    In other news, and fpt, the report into the Garden Bridge is hilariously scathing:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/07_04_17_garden_bridge_report.pdf

    "Decisions on the Garden Bridge were driven by electoral cycles rather than value for money."

    "The project has already used £37.4 million of public money and the agreement to underwrite
    cancellation costs by the Government could bring the bill to the taxpayer up to £46.4 million."

    "These were not open, fair or competitive procurements"

    "It is my view that there was no agreement among those to whom I talked about the purpose
    of the Garden Bridge. "

    And on, and on. Everyone involved with this sordid scheme should be forced to pay back the public's money.

    Edit: and
    "Boris Johnson himself reflected the confusion of purpose when he was asked about it by The New Civil Engineer, in January 2014. They reported he "wasn’t really sure what it was for", other than making a "wonderful environment for a crafty cigarette or a romantic assignation."

    Way to spend our money, Boris!

    It seemed an extravagance to me. The money should be spent linking Essex and Kent, either by rail (lines exist already) or foot tunnel
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,901
    rkrkrk said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    'Cricket lie' wife-attacker Mustafa Bashir jailed
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39529714

    Good.

    Even if it was true that he had signed for a club, it should not have altered the judgement. That's what's so off about the whole thing IMO: the judge got it utterly wrong.
    I find it utterly extraordinary that a potential contract of employment could alter a sentence so much.
    18 months is a bit more like it, I assume it'll be 9 in then 9 out on tag ?
    He'll be released in 4 and a half months time, then spend 4 and a half months on tag, then the last nine months on licence.
    Even my bleeding liberal heart finds that a bit short in the clink. But thems the rules I guess.
    Yep i agree.
    Its difficult because i want the punishment to be big in cases like this... But at the same time recognise that prison tends to make things worse when the person does get out...
    Putting muslims in English prisons could be asking for trouble. He'll probably come out a jihadi
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,658
    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Scott_P said:
    Similar response from Corbyn and SNP then.
    Measured factual response rather than the puerile bilge from the Tory US lapdogs. They have no plan , no clue other than to fund one set of the murderers and bomb the other one every now and again to show how tough they are from thousands of miles away.
    You might try matching their measured response.
    Am I not being bloodthirsty enough for you or is it not waving the butcher's apron. Keep up your pathetic armchair general support for murdering civilians.
    I think you're aiming at the wrong target malc. You said the snp and corbyn response was measured. They also didn't support the action, so if it's possible to do that and be measured, why not be measured? I didn't suggest you change your position. Ranting at a suggested change in tone seems a little unfair my friend.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,921
    isam said:

    In other news, and fpt, the report into the Garden Bridge is hilariously scathing:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/07_04_17_garden_bridge_report.pdf

    "Decisions on the Garden Bridge were driven by electoral cycles rather than value for money."

    "The project has already used £37.4 million of public money and the agreement to underwrite
    cancellation costs by the Government could bring the bill to the taxpayer up to £46.4 million."

    "These were not open, fair or competitive procurements"

    "It is my view that there was no agreement among those to whom I talked about the purpose
    of the Garden Bridge. "

    And on, and on. Everyone involved with this sordid scheme should be forced to pay back the public's money.

    Edit: and
    "Boris Johnson himself reflected the confusion of purpose when he was asked about it by The New Civil Engineer, in January 2014. They reported he "wasn’t really sure what it was for", other than making a "wonderful environment for a crafty cigarette or a romantic assignation."

    Way to spend our money, Boris!

    It seemed an extravagance to me. The money should be spent linking Essex and Kent, either by rail (lines exist already) or foot tunnel
    Yep. There needs to be more links downstream of the QE2 bridge, and between the Greenwich and Woolwich links. At a minimum. Heck, there's even an argument for a pedestrian / cycle link somewhere between Tower Bridge and Greenwich.

    But the Garden Bridge? It had no defined purpose, was in utterly the wrong place, and was massively costly.
  • Options
    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,907
    isam said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    'Cricket lie' wife-attacker Mustafa Bashir jailed
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39529714

    Good.

    Even if it was true that he had signed for a club, it should not have altered the judgement. That's what's so off about the whole thing IMO: the judge got it utterly wrong.
    I find it utterly extraordinary that a potential contract of employment could alter a sentence so much.
    18 months is a bit more like it, I assume it'll be 9 in then 9 out on tag ?
    He'll be released in 4 and a half months time, then spend 4 and a half months on tag, then the last nine months on licence.
    Even my bleeding liberal heart finds that a bit short in the clink. But thems the rules I guess.
    Yep i agree.
    Its difficult because i want the punishment to be big in cases like this... But at the same time recognise that prison tends to make things worse when the person does get out...
    Putting muslims in English prisons could be asking for trouble. He'll probably come out a jihadi
    Radicalisation in prisons is a real risk... And not only for Muslims.
    Hopefully the authorities have figured that out by now...
  • Options
    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400

    In other news, and fpt, the report into the Garden Bridge is hilariously scathing:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/07_04_17_garden_bridge_report.pdf

    "Decisions on the Garden Bridge were driven by electoral cycles rather than value for money."

    "The project has already used £37.4 million of public money and the agreement to underwrite
    cancellation costs by the Government could bring the bill to the taxpayer up to £46.4 million."

    "These were not open, fair or competitive procurements"

    "It is my view that there was no agreement among those to whom I talked about the purpose
    of the Garden Bridge. "

    And on, and on. Everyone involved with this sordid scheme should be forced to pay back the public's money.

    Edit: and
    "Boris Johnson himself reflected the confusion of purpose when he was asked about it by The New Civil Engineer, in January 2014. They reported he "wasn’t really sure what it was for", other than making a "wonderful environment for a crafty cigarette or a romantic assignation."

    Way to spend our money, Boris!

    Boris is wealthy enough to make a decent contribution to the compensation fund.

    Definitely shouldn't be trusted with the new Royal Yacht however.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,818

    Currently we appear to be having a soft Brexit week in fast-moving, bipolar Brexit world. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell us how if that continues, the UKIPs will be BACK!

    Be a laugh when immigration rises year on year.
  • Options
    CyanCyan Posts: 1,262
    isam said:

    In other news, and fpt, the report into the Garden Bridge is hilariously scathing:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/07_04_17_garden_bridge_report.pdf

    "Decisions on the Garden Bridge were driven by electoral cycles rather than value for money."

    "The project has already used £37.4 million of public money and the agreement to underwrite
    cancellation costs by the Government could bring the bill to the taxpayer up to £46.4 million."

    "These were not open, fair or competitive procurements"

    "It is my view that there was no agreement among those to whom I talked about the purpose
    of the Garden Bridge. "

    And on, and on. Everyone involved with this sordid scheme should be forced to pay back the public's money.

    Edit: and
    "Boris Johnson himself reflected the confusion of purpose when he was asked about it by The New Civil Engineer, in January 2014. They reported he "wasn’t really sure what it was for", other than making a "wonderful environment for a crafty cigarette or a romantic assignation."

    Way to spend our money, Boris!

    It seemed an extravagance to me. The money should be spent linking Essex and Kent, either by rail (lines exist already) or foot tunnel
    Other words than "extravagance" come to mind when public money gets paid to contractors for large-scale construction projects such as roads and bridges that nobody needs or wants.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,818
    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Scott_P said:
    Similar response from Corbyn and SNP then.
    Measured factual response rather than the puerile bilge from the Tory US lapdogs. They have no plan , no clue other than to fund one set of the murderers and bomb the other one every now and again to show how tough they are from thousands of miles away.
    You might try matching their measured response.
    Am I not being bloodthirsty enough for you or is it not waving the butcher's apron. Keep up your pathetic armchair general support for murdering civilians.
    I think you're aiming at the wrong target malc. You said the snp and corbyn response was measured. They also didn't support the action, so if it's possible to do that and be measured, why not be measured? I didn't suggest you change your position. Ranting at a suggested change in tone seems a little unfair my friend.
    KLE, I am in full ranting mood given some of the bilge on here from the warmongering armchair generals on here exulting over even more murders, apologies if I got you in the crossfire.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903
    Harris :

    Macron 24%
    Le Pen 23%
    Fillon 19%
    Melenchon 18%
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,818
    Pulpstar said:

    In other news, and fpt, the report into the Garden Bridge is hilariously scathing:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/07_04_17_garden_bridge_report.pdf

    "Decisions on the Garden Bridge were driven by electoral cycles rather than value for money."

    "The project has already used £37.4 million of public money and the agreement to underwrite
    cancellation costs by the Government could bring the bill to the taxpayer up to £46.4 million."

    "These were not open, fair or competitive procurements"

    "It is my view that there was no agreement among those to whom I talked about the purpose
    of the Garden Bridge. "

    And on, and on. Everyone involved with this sordid scheme should be forced to pay back the public's money.

    Edit: and
    "Boris Johnson himself reflected the confusion of purpose when he was asked about it by The New Civil Engineer, in January 2014. They reported he "wasn’t really sure what it was for", other than making a "wonderful environment for a crafty cigarette or a romantic assignation."

    Way to spend our money, Boris!

    @Charles will be along shortly to assure us it was a good use of public money.
    It was for some people, pockets jingling merrily.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,921
    Cyan said:

    isam said:

    In other news, and fpt, the report into the Garden Bridge is hilariously scathing:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/07_04_17_garden_bridge_report.pdf

    "Decisions on the Garden Bridge were driven by electoral cycles rather than value for money."

    "The project has already used £37.4 million of public money and the agreement to underwrite
    cancellation costs by the Government could bring the bill to the taxpayer up to £46.4 million."

    "These were not open, fair or competitive procurements"

    "It is my view that there was no agreement among those to whom I talked about the purpose
    of the Garden Bridge. "

    And on, and on. Everyone involved with this sordid scheme should be forced to pay back the public's money.

    Edit: and
    "Boris Johnson himself reflected the confusion of purpose when he was asked about it by The New Civil Engineer, in January 2014. They reported he "wasn’t really sure what it was for", other than making a "wonderful environment for a crafty cigarette or a romantic assignation."

    Way to spend our money, Boris!

    It seemed an extravagance to me. The money should be spent linking Essex and Kent, either by rail (lines exist already) or foot tunnel
    Other words than "extravagance" come to mind when public money gets paid to contractors for large-scale construction projects such as roads and bridges that nobody needs or wants.
    Which ones are you thinking of in particular?
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    Currently we appear to be having a soft Brexit week in fast-moving, bipolar Brexit world. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell us how if that continues, the UKIPs will be BACK!

    I think UKIP are finished even with a fairly soft Brexit. the raison d'etre is simply gone.
  • Options
    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Should that not have been "a terrrrrrrible night for UKIP"?

    RIP Mr Anthony King :(
    Why do I get the feeling I'm going to start having to call you Councillor Pulpstar next month ?
    Do we have a sense of how many councillors there are on PB?
    We have a few. I reckon a dozen. Most prefer their anonymity simply because their comments on here can be taken out of context.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    RobD said:

    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/davieclegg/status/850318550552203265

    Uh oh.. I hope malc doesn't see this :D
    It's a sensible article. The irony is that the SNP and the Tories should oddly enough have very similar aims for Brexit. A good Brexit deal that maintains free-trade, keeps an open border with Ireland etc is what we are looking for. But it will also set a precedent that if Scotland leaves the UK they could get the same as Ireland - free trade, an open border etc

    The better the UK/EU (and thus Ireland) deal is, the better a future rUK/Scotland one is likely to be.

    The SNP should not seek to frustrate or denigrate Brexit but instead seek to make independence a success and then seek to go a step further by getting their own exit.
  • Options
    CyanCyan Posts: 1,262
    What a mindfucky culture people live in, in respect to their ideas about political and large-scale social matters! If you don't want Daesh [*] to extend their territory in Syria, don't bomb their main opponent. And yes it is a case of either Assad or Daesh. And no, recognising that reality isn't to applaud it.

    (* ) Or "the so-called 'Islamic State' group" as the BBC ("GosTelekom of the so-called 'Kingdom' group") call it.

  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,818
    Scott_P said:
    Oh dear , Jim saw the great clunking halfwit the other week and had himself dug up to regurgitate his tales of when he was side by side with Mel Gibson and how Nicola is a pale shadow in comparison.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    Pulpstar said:
    Right hand versus far right hand?
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    'Cricket lie' wife-attacker Mustafa Bashir jailed
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39529714

    Good.

    Even if it was true that he had signed for a club, it should not have altered the judgement. That's what's so off about the whole thing IMO: the judge got it utterly wrong.
    I find it utterly extraordinary that a potential contract of employment could alter a sentence so much.
    18 months is a bit more like it, I assume it'll be 9 in then 9 out on tag ?
    He'll be released in 4 and a half months time, then spend 4 and a half months on tag, then the last nine months on licence.
    Even my bleeding liberal heart finds that a bit short in the clink. But thems the rules I guess.
    He might not get tag if he's a bad boy in prison and or if he's judged a risk to the public or specific persons.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,946
    Cyan said:

    What a mindfucky culture people live in, in respect to their ideas about political and large-scale social matters! If you don't want Daesh [*] to extend their territory in Syria, don't bomb their main opponent. And yes it is a case of either Assad or Daesh. And no, recognising that reality isn't to applaud it.

    (* ) Or "the so-called 'Islamic State' group" as the BBC ("GosTelekom of the so-called 'Kingdom' group") call it.

    The US is still bombing ISIS heavily, the fact they launched a missile attack on Assad after he gassed children does not change that
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,029
    felix said:

    Currently we appear to be having a soft Brexit week in fast-moving, bipolar Brexit world. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell us how if that continues, the UKIPs will be BACK!

    I think UKIP are finished even with a fairly soft Brexit. the raison d'etre is simply gone.
    UKIP are finished even if there is ultimately no Brexit. A policy of leaving the EU will no longer have any serious advocates if it is a failure.
  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Scott_P said:

    @Jack_Blanchard_

    Source tells me the "consultation" with Shadow Defence Sect Nia Griffith involved showing her the statement and then ignoring her protests

    There is of course a very honourable response to such treatment.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,818

    'Cricket lie' wife-attacker Mustafa Bashir jailed
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39529714

    Good.

    Even if it was true that he had signed for a club, it should not have altered the judgement. That's what's so off about the whole thing IMO: the judge got it utterly wrong.
    Exactly , the judge should be picking up JSA by now.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,818
    RobD said:

    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/davieclegg/status/850318550552203265

    Uh oh.. I hope malc doesn't see this :D
    Too late Rob
  • Options
    CyanCyan Posts: 1,262

    Cyan said:

    isam said:

    In other news, and fpt, the report into the Garden Bridge is hilariously scathing:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/07_04_17_garden_bridge_report.pdf

    "Decisions on the Garden Bridge were driven by electoral cycles rather than value for money."

    "The project has already used £37.4 million of public money and the agreement to underwrite
    cancellation costs by the Government could bring the bill to the taxpayer up to £46.4 million."

    "These were not open, fair or competitive procurements"

    "It is my view that there was no agreement among those to whom I talked about the purpose
    of the Garden Bridge. "

    And on, and on. Everyone involved with this sordid scheme should be forced to pay back the public's money.

    Edit: and
    "Boris Johnson himself reflected the confusion of purpose when he was asked about it by The New Civil Engineer, in January 2014. They reported he "wasn’t really sure what it was for", other than making a "wonderful environment for a crafty cigarette or a romantic assignation."

    Way to spend our money, Boris!

    It seemed an extravagance to me. The money should be spent linking Essex and Kent, either by rail (lines exist already) or foot tunnel
    Other words than "extravagance" come to mind when public money gets paid to contractors for large-scale construction projects such as roads and bridges that nobody needs or wants.
    Which ones are you thinking of in particular?
    I wouldn't want to get banned. But ask anyone from any other part of the world than Britain or Scandinavia why public authorities sign or push for contracts to get roads and bridges built that nobody wants.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,946
    edited April 2017

    RobD said:

    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/davieclegg/status/850318550552203265

    Uh oh.. I hope malc doesn't see this :D
    It's a sensible article. The irony is that the SNP and the Tories should oddly enough have very similar aims for Brexit. A good Brexit deal that maintains free-trade, keeps an open border with Ireland etc is what we are looking for. But it will also set a precedent that if Scotland leaves the UK they could get the same as Ireland - free trade, an open border etc

    The better the UK/EU (and thus Ireland) deal is, the better a future rUK/Scotland one is likely to be.

    The SNP should not seek to frustrate or denigrate Brexit but instead seek to make independence a success and then seek to go a step further by getting their own exit.
    Though if Brexit is a success that removes the SNP's whole reason for indyref2 in the first place
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @paulwaugh: EThornberry on #wato “I don’t think it was right go ahead without any consultation”. She meant Trump + allies, not Corbyn + full ShadCab
  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    edited April 2017
    malcolmg said:

    'Cricket lie' wife-attacker Mustafa Bashir jailed
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39529714

    Good.

    Even if it was true that he had signed for a club, it should not have altered the judgement. That's what's so off about the whole thing IMO: the judge got it utterly wrong.
    Exactly , the judge should be picking up JSA by now.
    Maybe the CPS should as well: they charged him with ABH not GBH.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,818

    Currently we appear to be having a soft Brexit week in fast-moving, bipolar Brexit world. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell us how if that continues, the UKIPs will be BACK!

    That's heartening news. Everyone sensible wants a Mr Whippy soft Brexit - full membership of the whole alphabet soup of EFTA, EEA, ECJ, ECHR etc. Immigration as it was. Full adherence to EU trading standards and workers rights. Full adherence to EU environmental guidelines. (We'll give the Leavers a blue passport as a token gesture of our good will, and they'll be content with that.)
    You forgot higher weekly payments
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    felix said:

    Currently we appear to be having a soft Brexit week in fast-moving, bipolar Brexit world. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell us how if that continues, the UKIPs will be BACK!

    I think UKIP are finished even with a fairly soft Brexit. the raison d'etre is simply gone.
    UKIP are finished even if there is ultimately no Brexit. A policy of leaving the EU will no longer have any serious advocates if it is a failure.
    Lol - there's gonna be a Brexit. Time to start moving on from denial.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,161
    Scott_P said:
    Another shad cabinet defence minister about to go?
  • Options
    felix said:

    felix said:

    Currently we appear to be having a soft Brexit week in fast-moving, bipolar Brexit world. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell us how if that continues, the UKIPs will be BACK!

    I think UKIP are finished even with a fairly soft Brexit. the raison d'etre is simply gone.
    UKIP are finished even if there is ultimately no Brexit. A policy of leaving the EU will no longer have any serious advocates if it is a failure.
    Lol - there's gonna be a Brexit. Time to start moving on from denial.
    Lol - he said EVEN IF, suggesting there will be. Time to start moving on from denial that UKIP are finished
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,921
    Cyan said:

    What a mindfucky culture people live in, in respect to their ideas about political and large-scale social matters! If you don't want Daesh [*] to extend their territory in Syria, don't bomb their main opponent. And yes it is a case of either Assad or Daesh. And no, recognising that reality isn't to applaud it.

    (* ) Or "the so-called 'Islamic State' group" as the BBC ("GosTelekom of the so-called 'Kingdom' group") call it.

    That sort of argument led us to ignore Saddam Hussein's crimes in the 1980s (substitute Iran for ISIS), and look where that led us.

    'British values' was used a great deal in the run-up to the referendum. Now it's been won, the phrase isn't seen as much. I'd argue that one of the values we need to maintain the most is our ability to stand up for the little guy in the face of oppression - the maintenance of individual liberty.

    ISIS are oppressive. Assad's government is oppressive. We should not ignore one in the face of the other, but try to help the innocent caught in between the two.
  • Options
    CyanCyan Posts: 1,262
    Here's an interesting court case in the US: Twitter versus the Department of Homeland Security. Twitter are asserting a constitutional right to disseminate "anonymous and pseudonymous political speech". I don't fancy their chances.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,818
    HYUFD said:

    Cyan said:

    What a mindfucky culture people live in, in respect to their ideas about political and large-scale social matters! If you don't want Daesh [*] to extend their territory in Syria, don't bomb their main opponent. And yes it is a case of either Assad or Daesh. And no, recognising that reality isn't to applaud it.

    (* ) Or "the so-called 'Islamic State' group" as the BBC ("GosTelekom of the so-called 'Kingdom' group") call it.

    The US is still bombing ISIS heavily, the fact they launched a missile attack on Assad after he gassed children does not change that
    You just did not understand the point did you.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,818
    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/davieclegg/status/850318550552203265

    Uh oh.. I hope malc doesn't see this :D
    It's a sensible article. The irony is that the SNP and the Tories should oddly enough have very similar aims for Brexit. A good Brexit deal that maintains free-trade, keeps an open border with Ireland etc is what we are looking for. But it will also set a precedent that if Scotland leaves the UK they could get the same as Ireland - free trade, an open border etc

    The better the UK/EU (and thus Ireland) deal is, the better a future rUK/Scotland one is likely to be.

    The SNP should not seek to frustrate or denigrate Brexit but instead seek to make independence a success and then seek to go a step further by getting their own exit.
    Though if Brexit is a success that removes the SNP's whole reason for indyref2 in the first place
    LOL, The impossible dream.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,921
    Cyan said:

    Cyan said:

    isam said:

    In other news, and fpt, the report into the Garden Bridge is hilariously scathing:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/07_04_17_garden_bridge_report.pdf

    "Decisions on the Garden Bridge were driven by electoral cycles rather than value for money."

    "The project has already used £37.4 million of public money and the agreement to underwrite
    cancellation costs by the Government could bring the bill to the taxpayer up to £46.4 million."

    "These were not open, fair or competitive procurements"

    "It is my view that there was no agreement among those to whom I talked about the purpose
    of the Garden Bridge. "

    And on, and on. Everyone involved with this sordid scheme should be forced to pay back the public's money.

    Edit: and
    "Boris Johnson himself reflected the confusion of purpose when he was asked about it by The New Civil Engineer, in January 2014. They reported he "wasn’t really sure what it was for", other than making a "wonderful environment for a crafty cigarette or a romantic assignation."

    Way to spend our money, Boris!

    It seemed an extravagance to me. The money should be spent linking Essex and Kent, either by rail (lines exist already) or foot tunnel
    Other words than "extravagance" come to mind when public money gets paid to contractors for large-scale construction projects such as roads and bridges that nobody needs or wants.
    Which ones are you thinking of in particular?
    I wouldn't want to get banned. But ask anyone from any other part of the world than Britain or Scandinavia why public authorities sign or push for contracts to get roads and bridges built that nobody wants.
    Ah, okay. I was thinking of Britain. Generally over here we have such heavy planning laws and legislation it's hard to get anything major built, yet alone frivolous things.

    Some local infrastructure choices seem odd at times, though. As an example, here in Cambridge we have a massively expensive Misguided Bus ... ;)
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,946
    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyan said:

    What a mindfucky culture people live in, in respect to their ideas about political and large-scale social matters! If you don't want Daesh [*] to extend their territory in Syria, don't bomb their main opponent. And yes it is a case of either Assad or Daesh. And no, recognising that reality isn't to applaud it.

    (* ) Or "the so-called 'Islamic State' group" as the BBC ("GosTelekom of the so-called 'Kingdom' group") call it.

    The US is still bombing ISIS heavily, the fact they launched a missile attack on Assad after he gassed children does not change that
    You just did not understand the point did you.
    No I understood it perfectly, just because you are fighting ISIS does not mean you allow Assad yo behave with impunity
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,818

    Cyan said:

    Cyan said:

    isam said:

    In other news, and fpt, the report into the Garden Bridge is hilariously scathing:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/07_04_17_garden_bridge_report.pdf

    "Decisions on the Garden Bridge were driven by electoral cycles rather than value for money."

    "The project has already used £37.4 million of public money and the agreement to underwrite
    cancellation costs by the Government could bring the bill to the taxpayer up to £46.4 million."

    "These were not open, fair or competitive procurements"

    "It is my view that there was no agreement among those to whom I talked about the purpose
    of the Garden Bridge. "

    And on, and on. Everyone involved with this sordid scheme should be forced to pay back the public's money.

    Edit: and
    "Boris Johnson himself reflected the confusion of purpose when he was asked about it by The New Civil Engineer, in January 2014. They reported he "wasn’t really sure what it was for", other than making a "wonderful environment for a crafty cigarette or a romantic assignation."

    Way to spend our money, Boris!

    It seemed an extravagance to me. The money should be spent linking Essex and Kent, either by rail (lines exist already) or foot tunnel
    Other words than "extravagance" come to mind when public money gets paid to contractors for large-scale construction projects such as roads and bridges that nobody needs or wants.
    Which ones are you thinking of in particular?
    I wouldn't want to get banned. But ask anyone from any other part of the world than Britain or Scandinavia why public authorities sign or push for contracts to get roads and bridges built that nobody wants.
    Ah, okay. I was thinking of Britain. Generally over here we have such heavy planning laws and legislation it's hard to get anything major built, yet alone frivolous things.

    Some local infrastructure choices seem odd at times, though. As an example, here in Cambridge we have a massively expensive Misguided Bus ... ;)
    Bit easier if you have establishment chums though, the peasants get a bit scared.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    felix said:

    felix said:

    Currently we appear to be having a soft Brexit week in fast-moving, bipolar Brexit world. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell us how if that continues, the UKIPs will be BACK!

    I think UKIP are finished even with a fairly soft Brexit. the raison d'etre is simply gone.
    UKIP are finished even if there is ultimately no Brexit. A policy of leaving the EU will no longer have any serious advocates if it is a failure.
    Lol - there's gonna be a Brexit. Time to start moving on from denial.
    Lol - he said EVEN IF, suggesting there will be. Time to start moving on from denial that UKIP are finished
    Err did you even read my original post?
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,818
    Scott_P said:
    guaranteed it will be all the bad bits ,bigger fees per week and none of the supposed benefits.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,818
    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyan said:

    What a mindfucky culture people live in, in respect to their ideas about political and large-scale social matters! If you don't want Daesh [*] to extend their territory in Syria, don't bomb their main opponent. And yes it is a case of either Assad or Daesh. And no, recognising that reality isn't to applaud it.

    (* ) Or "the so-called 'Islamic State' group" as the BBC ("GosTelekom of the so-called 'Kingdom' group") call it.

    The US is still bombing ISIS heavily, the fact they launched a missile attack on Assad after he gassed children does not change that
    You just did not understand the point did you.
    No I understood it perfectly, just because you are fighting ISIS does not mean you allow Assad yo behave with impunity
    we are not fighting ISIS, token gesture only.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,658

    Currently we appear to be having a soft Brexit week in fast-moving, bipolar Brexit world. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell us how if that continues, the UKIPs will be BACK!

    Along shortly? I'm sure it has already been said!
  • Options
    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    Scott_P said:
    The column is utterly wrong-headed. There is an enormous difference between complying with EU rules when trading with EU countries and having to comply with EU rules at all times, even where there is no international aspect.

  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Pulpstar said:
    That tweet was cogent and didn't sound completely mad, not sure that was David Coburn to be honest.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Sounds like a fantastic centre-right Brexit @Scott_P what's not to like?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,946
    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyan said:

    What a mindfucky culture people live in, in respect to their ideas about political and large-scale social matters! If you don't want Daesh [*] to extend their territory in Syria, don't bomb their main opponent. And yes it is a case of either Assad or Daesh. And no, recognising that reality isn't to applaud it.

    (* ) Or "the so-called 'Islamic State' group" as the BBC ("GosTelekom of the so-called 'Kingdom' group") call it.

    The US is still bombing ISIS heavily, the fact they launched a missile attack on Assad after he gassed children does not change that
    You just did not understand the point did you.
    No I understood it perfectly, just because you are fighting ISIS does not mean you allow Assad yo behave with impunity
    we are not fighting ISIS, token gesture only.
    We are bombing them in both Syria and Iraq and have special forces on the ground
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,658
    edited April 2017
    Scott_P said:
    Love it.
    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Scott_P said:
    Similar response from Corbyn and SNP then.
    Measured factual response rather than the puerile bilge from the Tory US lapdogs. They have no plan , no clue other than to fund one set of the murderers and bomb the other one every now and again to show how tough they are from thousands of miles away.
    You might try matching their measured response.
    Am I not being bloodthirsty enough for you or is it not waving the butcher's apron. Keep up your pathetic armchair general support for murdering civilians.
    I think you're aiming at the wrong target malc. You said the snp and corbyn response was measured. They also didn't support the action, so if it's possible to do that and be measured, why not be measured? I didn't suggest you change your position. Ranting at a suggested change in tone seems a little unfair my friend.
    KLE, I am in full ranting mood given some of the bilge on here from the warmongering armchair generals on here exulting over even more murders, apologies if I got you in the crossfire.
    No one's perfect.

    Personally, I warmonger from my computer chair anyway.
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,703
    Pulpstar said:

    Harris :

    Macron 24%
    Le Pen 23%
    Fillon 19%
    Melenchon 18%

    Only 6% in it, could be Melenchon vs Fillon - but won't be, will it?
  • Options
    tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,546
    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Should that not have been "a terrrrrrrible night for UKIP"?

    RIP Mr Anthony King :(
    Why do I get the feeling I'm going to start having to call you Councillor Pulpstar next month ?
    Do we have a sense of how many councillors there are on PB?
    *waves*

    I've been open that it was posting on this site that got me more involved, and it was at a PB meetup I was encouraged to join up by RikW in particular (admittedly wrong party but still....)

    My avatar is part of my council ward.
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Can't see this appealing to the SNP. Wonder what malc would think:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39510351
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,969
    Good afternoon, my fellow Myrmidons.

    Cheers for this, Mr. Hayfield.
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Scott_P said:
    Hmmm... a compromise like this might satisfy a majority of the electorate, but the Government will have to be very careful indeed to make sure that progress is seen to be made on immigration control.

    One of the possible scenarios for the re-emergence of an effective Opposition is that Labour is sidelined but then, at some point in the not too distant future, a dominant Conservative Party - no longer constrained by the threat of Labour - splits over a key area of policy. Mass immigration coupled with too many compromises with the EU could be enough to do the job.

    The minimum the Government needs to achieve at the end of the Brexit process is to ensure that Parliament has complete control over taxation; that future *unskilled* migration is restricted; and that the country is free to decide its own international trading arrangements. Beyond that I reckon it has room to bargain.
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    Currently we appear to be having a soft Brexit week in fast-moving, bipolar Brexit world. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell us how if that continues, the UKIPs will be BACK!

    That's heartening news. Everyone sensible wants a Mr Whippy soft Brexit - full membership of the whole alphabet soup of EFTA, EEA, ECJ, ECHR etc. Immigration as it was. Full adherence to EU trading standards and workers rights. Full adherence to EU environmental guidelines. (We'll give the Leavers a blue passport as a token gesture of our good will, and they'll be content with that.)
    No. Not everyone sensible wants all that. If that is what they want, then it is not sensible to have left the EU. Everyone sensible now should be wanting better than that.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/davieclegg/status/850318550552203265

    Uh oh.. I hope malc doesn't see this :D
    It's a sensible article. The irony is that the SNP and the Tories should oddly enough have very similar aims for Brexit. A good Brexit deal that maintains free-trade, keeps an open border with Ireland etc is what we are looking for. But it will also set a precedent that if Scotland leaves the UK they could get the same as Ireland - free trade, an open border etc

    The better the UK/EU (and thus Ireland) deal is, the better a future rUK/Scotland one is likely to be.

    The SNP should not seek to frustrate or denigrate Brexit but instead seek to make independence a success and then seek to go a step further by getting their own exit.
    Though if Brexit is a success that removes the SNP's whole reason for indyref2 in the first place
    LOL, The impossible dream.
    You should be used to them, malc.....
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Scott_P said:
    He missed out, chemical attack not real, western government don't really want to get rid of Assad because he is Shia and there is a western conspiracy against the Sunni's.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,818
    Alistair said:

    Pulpstar said:
    That tweet was cogent and didn't sound completely mad, not sure that was David Coburn to be honest.
    Someone must have used his account , he is an utter nutjob, though as he thinks the airbase was a chemical plant it could well be him.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/davieclegg/status/850318550552203265

    Uh oh.. I hope malc doesn't see this :D
    It's a sensible article. The irony is that the SNP and the Tories should oddly enough have very similar aims for Brexit. A good Brexit deal that maintains free-trade, keeps an open border with Ireland etc is what we are looking for. But it will also set a precedent that if Scotland leaves the UK they could get the same as Ireland - free trade, an open border etc

    The better the UK/EU (and thus Ireland) deal is, the better a future rUK/Scotland one is likely to be.

    The SNP should not seek to frustrate or denigrate Brexit but instead seek to make independence a success and then seek to go a step further by getting their own exit.
    Though if Brexit is a success that removes the SNP's whole reason for indyref2 in the first place
    The SNP has always wanted indyref2 anyway and Brexit will still have happened even if it is a success. Even better if its a success you can argue that Project Fear has been shown to be overblown and independence works. It is win/win for the SNP.

    Plus if Brexit happens in 2019, 2020 sees the SNP sweep Scotland again while the Tories win another UK majority and they put a manifesto commitment to a new indyref2 in 2021 then the SNP will have momentum on their side.

    Play the long game. Don't throw it away prematurely.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,818

    Scott_P said:
    Hmmm... a compromise like this might satisfy a majority of the electorate, but the Government will have to be very careful indeed to make sure that progress is seen to be made on immigration control.

    One of the possible scenarios for the re-emergence of an effective Opposition is that Labour is sidelined but then, at some point in the not too distant future, a dominant Conservative Party - no longer constrained by the threat of Labour - splits over a key area of policy. Mass immigration coupled with too many compromises with the EU could be enough to do the job.

    The minimum the Government needs to achieve at the end of the Brexit process is to ensure that Parliament has complete control over taxation; that future *unskilled* migration is restricted; and that the country is free to decide its own international trading arrangements. Beyond that I reckon it has room to bargain.
    Hard Brexit you mean, but they plan Pretend Brexit now.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,029

    Hmmm... a compromise like this might satisfy a majority of the electorate, but the Government will have to be very careful indeed to make sure that progress is seen to be made on immigration control.

    The government will be able to claim significant progress simply by 'taking control' of watching the Eurozone economy power ahead and creating more jobs.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799

    Scott_P said:
    Hmmm... a compromise like this might satisfy a majority of the electorate, but the Government will have to be very careful indeed to make sure that progress is seen to be made on immigration control.

    One of the possible scenarios for the re-emergence of an effective Opposition is that Labour is sidelined but then, at some point in the not too distant future, a dominant Conservative Party - no longer constrained by the threat of Labour - splits over a key area of policy. Mass immigration coupled with too many compromises with the EU could be enough to do the job.

    The minimum the Government needs to achieve at the end of the Brexit process is to ensure that Parliament has complete control over taxation; that future *unskilled* migration is restricted; and that the country is free to decide its own international trading arrangements. Beyond that I reckon it has room to bargain.
    I think the bitter enders are still osciallating between anger, denial and bargaining.

    Brexit is now the political consensus and it's happening. Obviously, not a lot will change over night, but in the longer term it will, as we decouple from EU political structures and respond to differently from the EU to events.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,969
    F1: according to my F1 Twitter list (the font of all knowledge), the FIA has backed up Whiting and ruled out shifting the race to Saturday.

    This does risk the race being cancelled, of course.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,818
    MTimT said:

    Can't see this appealing to the SNP. Wonder what malc would think:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39510351

    Highly unlikely but at least we would be aligned with a successful outward looking country. My guess is that we will be going it alone with ties to England , Europe and other nations as an outward looking internationalist independent country
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