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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Whilst it is understandable national campaigning has been susp

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited June 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Whilst it is understandable national campaigning has been suspended, the general election must not be suspended

May spokesmn: "Conservative party will not be campaigning nationally today. We will review as day goes on &as more details of attack emerge"

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Comments

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    edited June 2017
    Always more of a single malt man myself :-)
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Suspending GE = worst idea I have ever heard.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Mrs wobbley better get that bloody podium out in downing Street and have a clear message of action. God forbid it is a terrorist sympathizer doing this next time.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    What an excellent thread picture of Peter the Punter in the Vauxhall Tavern .... although Mrs JackW thinks the blue eye-liner is not his best shade.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    Good Lord, did I get a First?

    I think that's my first First since my BA, waaaay back in 2004.

    More seriously, agree on the main point. If Theresa May postpones the election my vote will rapidly shuffle to the Liberal Democrats. But I don't think she will.

    One further point - I think these attacks are linked to the election. Remember 2007 when there were a series of failed attacks just as Brown took office? Or the train attacks in Spain? Attempting to exploit maximum confusion and disorganisation is standard terrorist MO.

    That makes it doubly important the election goes ahead even if we have to have men with guns outside every polling station.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Suspending GE = worst idea I have ever heard.

    Well this country has now suspended campaigning twice.So the terrorism has effected the election whatever we say.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352

    Mrs wobbley better get that bloody podium out in downing Street and have a clear message of action. God forbid it is a terrorist sympathizer doing this next time.

    It will be the usual waffle with no concrete changes.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,019
    Keep calm and carry on.

    There is no need to suspend the election.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,084

    Mrs wobbley better get that bloody podium out in downing Street and have a clear message of action. God forbid it is a terrorist sympathizer doing this next time.

    10 am
  • Was hoping McDonnell would face some serious security questions, but both Marr and Sunday Politics cancelled.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Jonathan said:

    Looking ahead, whoever wins the GE has to find a new policy to pre-empt and mitigate this threat. Not easy.

    My hunch is that we will see calls for ID cards and 72hrs detention coming back at some point.

    Probably. Whether they could in any way help with this situation, they are measures that are known, simple and understandable, so easy to implement, so likely to be proposed.
    Yorkcity said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Suspending GE = worst idea I have ever heard.

    Well this country has now suspended campaigning twice.So the terrorism has effected the election whatever we say.
    Yes we are affected no matter that we say otherwise. It doesn't follow all reactions, e.g. A temporary pause in campaigning vs cancelling the election, are remotely similar, and the latter should not happen.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,013

    Mrs wobbley better get that bloody podium out in downing Street and have a clear message of action. God forbid it is a terrorist sympathizer doing this next time.

    It will be the usual waffle with no concrete changes.
    She'll restate her plans to further slash police and armed forced budgets whilst claiming Labour's plans to restore them threaten national security.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,414
    I don't think there is any constitutional mechanism for doing so - we don't have a parliament? Could an Order in Council do it? It would set a very murky precedent though. It should not be suspended.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    edited June 2017
    Suspend the election and the election never happens.

    Given how frequently these attacks are happening now, how unsophisticated they are, and how many people are reportedly prepared to carry them out, I think it must however be very likely we are going to get another before Friday, probably on General Election day itself.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,401
    Postponement of the election would be the worst possible response. And the best response from society is to go and vote to show that it is our democratic society that bonds us, whatever our political affiliation.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    Exactly, these terrorist attacks are linked to the election, suspending it beyond Thursday will just increase their likelihood further, democracy must go on terrorism or no terrorism
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,009
    Ridiculous idea. Is there even a legal mechanism for suspending a general election?
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited June 2017
    GE2017 will not be cancelled, nor should it be.

    Locked in a Vauxhall Tavern with Madonna blaring away on the jukebox is my idea of the 7th circle of hell, although bearable if there’s plenty of ice and a decent tonic for the gin.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    The only reason to delay things if the police have a specific threat and need time to ensure people's safety as they go to the polls.

    We're going to have the sight of guns guarding polling stations.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    Mrs wobbley better get that bloody podium out in downing Street and have a clear message of action. God forbid it is a terrorist sympathizer doing this next time.

    It will be the usual waffle with no concrete changes.
    Agreed May was against control orders and hardly used existing powers to withdraw passports.She will call them cowards again as all politicians do .
  • Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414
    TSE is right to highlight the parallel with the Guildford pub bombings. If it was right to carry on as normal then then it must be now. Or were we made of sterner stuff in the 70s?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165
    I see Andrew Marr has been cancelled, but Sunday Politics still listed for 11 am.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004

    Was hoping McDonnell would face some serious security questions, but both Marr and Sunday Politics cancelled.

    Surprised by that decision.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    Yorkcity said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Suspending GE = worst idea I have ever heard.

    Well this country has now suspended campaigning twice.So the terrorism has effected the election whatever we say.
    A terrorist attack in a campaign will always affect the election. Rightly or wrongly, by dominating the news coverage it changes the focus.

    The crucial thing is it mustn't stop it.

    I have to go and play the organ. There's an impressive climax using an eight foot horn involved. I only hope it stays fully inflated throughout as on occasion this particular organ has had issues with its blower and it takes a lot of effort to pump it up by hand.

    I do hope that mind bleach supplies will be shared equally and that you all have a good morning.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    >

    I am guessing that is the GE campaign finished.

    I hope not. Any security issue stuff is done, any attempt to talk about it from candidates will backfire, so the last date should be all about economics and leadership. Both sides would welcome that, one because they've d a great campaign, thecother because they think the fundamentals are still in their favour.

    No suspension. We always make tough talk of not letting them affect us, it is a polite fiction we tell ourselves, to encourage our resilience, but to suspend would be a mistake of epic proportions. If nothing else, as has been noted if the election is itself a reason for increased activity, suspending doesn't help.

  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,880

    Mrs wobbley better get that bloody podium out in downing Street and have a clear message of action. God forbid it is a terrorist sympathizer doing this next time.

    It will be the usual waffle with no concrete changes.
    She can't keep trotting out the same old platitudes every time ISIS does an away fixture in the UK. I think the voters have a right to expect something a bit more proactive than her usual soapy tit wank about security, vigilance, etc.
  • HaroldOHaroldO Posts: 1,185

    Mrs wobbley better get that bloody podium out in downing Street and have a clear message of action. God forbid it is a terrorist sympathizer doing this next time.

    It will be the usual waffle with no concrete changes.
    She'll restate her plans to further slash police and armed forced budgets whilst claiming Labour's plans to restore them threaten national security.
    So Labour are going to increase the armed forces budget are they?
    Also, which branch of the armed forces would have stopped this? I'm sure more Tornado bombers patrolling Syria would have halted a knife attack in central London.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    ydoethur said:

    Good Lord, did I get a First?

    I think that's my first First since my BA, waaaay back in 2004.

    More seriously, agree on the main point. If Theresa May postpones the election my vote will rapidly shuffle to the Liberal Democrats. But I don't think she will.

    One further point - I think these attacks are linked to the election. Remember 2007 when there were a series of failed attacks just as Brown took office? Or the train attacks in Spain? Attempting to exploit maximum confusion and disorganisation is standard terrorist MO.

    That makes it doubly important the election goes ahead even if we have to have men with guns outside every polling station.

    France also saw an increase in attacks in the run up to its election and of course the US had the Florida and California attacks last year in the middle of the presidential election
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    tlg86 said:

    I see Andrew Marr has been cancelled, but Sunday Politics still listed for 11 am.

    Beat me to that, what will they do re question time this evening?
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 326
    I'm a bit disappointed that Labour have gone along with the national campaigning suspension. Is Messina's social media campaign going to be stopped today? Think that's unlikely
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    The election should go on. So should campaigning.

    Treat these scumbags with the contempt they deserve.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I am guessing that is the GE campaign finished.

    I am campaigning in Ilford from 10 30 or is only the national campaign suspended for a day not locally as far as I am aware
    The Tories have already suspended; the other parties are meeting now. I haven't heard anything about local campaigning but would be surprised if continuing today was sensible.
    If anything it is even more important, terrorists must not stop democracy
    It's about respect for the dead and injured - just as it was last time.

    I doubt there will be a public suspension of local campaigning, because they know it's not entirely under their control. But I would expect the parties to send out advisory emails to their local campaigners and IMO it would be foolish to continue with it today. Let's hope we can resume tomorrow.
    Last time we were not days from the election. Tragically, there is less time for our understandable sentiment.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Eagles, I absolutely agree. Delaying the election would mean handing control of democracy's timetable to murderers, and encourage more attacks in the future.

    Anyone advocating a delay should be handed several packs of nappies, slapped across the face with a large haddock, and told to grow some ****ing balls.
  • asjohnstoneasjohnstone Posts: 1,276
    SNP 40% (-3); CON 27% (-1); LAB 25 (+8); LD 6% (-3); Other 2% (-1)

    Scottish poll from Survation, appologies if already posted

    Strong numbers for Labour, SNP continue to fade
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Nester, indeed.

    Mr. Andy, I agree, but the response to Manchester set something of a precedent, unfortunately.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    Definitely don't suspend the election. It would be a clear sign that the terrorists have beaten us. If May does postpone or suspend it I'll wish I didn't send off my postal vote on Friday.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    edited June 2017
    ydoethur said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Suspending GE = worst idea I have ever heard.

    Well this country has now suspended campaigning twice.So the terrorism has effected the election whatever we say.
    A terrorist attack in a campaign will always affect the election. Rightly or wrongly, by dominating the news coverage it changes the focus.

    The crucial thing is it mustn't stop it.

    I have to go and play the organ. There's an impressive climax using an eight foot horn involved. I only hope it stays fully inflated throughout as on occasion this particular organ has had issues with its blower and it takes a lot of effort to pump it up by hand.

    I do hope that mind bleach supplies will be shared equally and that you all have a good morning.
    I agree with every word. Yes, even about pumping the blower of that mighty organ.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,949
    Chris said:

    Ridiculous idea. Is there even a legal mechanism for suspending a general election?

    Given our constitution tends to be flexible one imagines their must be. Even if it's the Queen doing so (in practice after the request of the PM and LoTO, that is).

    Agree that we shouldn't miss a beat for this, however.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,009
    Cyclefree said:

    The election should go on. So should campaigning.

    Treat these scumbags with the contempt they deserve.

    I really think that is the right answer.

    Who is to say that the suspension of campaigning for several days after the Manchester attack didn't encourage another?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,084
    Labour and SNP suspend campaigning today
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    Was hoping McDonnell would face some serious security questions, but both Marr and Sunday Politics cancelled.

    Surprised by that decision.
    So am I they ask us to carry on as normal then cancel programmes.Everyone else has to go to work, why are they different ? May and Khan have other things to do but other politicians can attend.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    IanB2 said:

    Labour and SNP suspend campaigning today

    At a national level
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,084
    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I am guessing that is the GE campaign finished.

    I am campaigning in Ilford from 10 30 or is only the national campaign suspended for a day not locally as far as I am aware
    The Tories have already suspended; the other parties are meeting now. I haven't heard anything about local campaigning but would be surprised if continuing today was sensible.
    If anything it is even more important, terrorists must not stop democracy
    It's about respect for the dead and injured - just as it was last time.

    I doubt there will be a public suspension of local campaigning, because they know it's not entirely under their control. But I would expect the parties to send out advisory emails to their local campaigners and IMO it would be foolish to continue with it today. Let's hope we can resume tomorrow.
    Last time we were not days from the election. Tragically, there is less time for our understandable sentiment.
    That's why I hope it's only today. But canvassing isn't going to be welcome, particularly whilst we still have a developing story.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,005

    TSE is right to highlight the parallel with the Guildford pub bombings. If it was right to carry on as normal then then it must be now. Or were we made of sterner stuff in the 70s?

    I don't think it's necessarily that. I agree it's a problem but it must also be hard for politicians to be knocking lumps out of one another in the immediate wake of an attack. Any argument on national security run the risk of looking like exploitation.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    SNP 40% (-3); CON 27% (-1); LAB 25 (+8); LD 6% (-3); Other 2% (-1)

    Scottish poll from Survation, appologies if already posted

    Strong numbers for Labour, SNP continue to fade

    The death of slab has been overdone, perhaps. Might actually negatively affect transfer potential for unionists, as they stick with their team?
  • Mr. Nester, indeed.

    Mrs Nester!

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    edited June 2017
    Appreciate the sentiment of keeping calm and carrying on. It is certainly what I feel. But to maintain calm, the powers that be need to seriously wargame this.

    If we get attacks on polling day, there would be chaos and turnout would collapse. The police would tell voters to stay at home.

    In such circumstances, I would hope for at least a second day of voting. To enable things like that there need to be contingencies to suspend and reopen voting. It can't just be made up on the fly.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    HaroldO said:

    Mrs wobbley better get that bloody podium out in downing Street and have a clear message of action. God forbid it is a terrorist sympathizer doing this next time.

    It will be the usual waffle with no concrete changes.
    She'll restate her plans to further slash police and armed forced budgets whilst claiming Labour's plans to restore them threaten national security.
    So Labour are going to increase the armed forces budget are they?
    Also, which branch of the armed forces would have stopped this? I'm sure more Tornado bombers patrolling Syria would have halted a knife attack in central London.
    Corbyn would of course neither bomb ISIS nor authorise a shoot to kill policy
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    1700 comments on the last thread. A record?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,749
    Dura_Ace said:

    Mrs wobbley better get that bloody podium out in downing Street and have a clear message of action. God forbid it is a terrorist sympathizer doing this next time.

    It will be the usual waffle with no concrete changes.
    She can't keep trotting out the same old platitudes every time ISIS does an away fixture in the UK. I think the voters have a right to expect something a bit more proactive than her usual soapy tit wank about security, vigilance, etc.
    She can't? The evidence suggests otherwise.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Lib Dems suspend national campaign and advise local associations to canvas sensitively. Yevil and B&OS have suspended local campaigning as well
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,084
    Sturgeon talking to the BBC about QT acc BBC Twitter
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    Yorkcity said:

    Was hoping McDonnell would face some serious security questions, but both Marr and Sunday Politics cancelled.

    Surprised by that decision.
    So am I they ask us to carry on as normal then cancel programmes.Everyone else has to go to work, why are they different ? May and Khan have other things to do but other politicians can attend.
    To be fair if national campaigning is suspended you can't really do national interviews. Every question/comment that isn't anything but bland would be criticised as breaking the campaign suspension. And it's not fair to interview people if they are restricted in what they are able to say for accusations of 'exploiting' the incident.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Jonathan said:

    Appreciate the sentiment of keeping calm and carrying on. It is certainly what I feel. But to maintain calm, the powers that be need to seriously wargame this.

    If we get attacks on polling day, there would be chaos and turnout would collapse. The police would tell voters to stay at home.

    In such circumstances, I would hope for at least a second day of voting. To enable things like that there need to be contingencies to suspend and reopen voting. It can't just be made up on the fly.

    Agreed. I wonder what plans might already be in place like that.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,401
    There should only be a one day suspension of the campaign. Certainly cannot have no more campaigning before polling day.

    Resume on Monday morning with a minute's silence.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969
    kle4 said:

    1700 comments on the last thread. A record?

    Not even close.

    We've hit 2,000 plus comments before.
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024

    TSE is right to highlight the parallel with the Guildford pub bombings. If it was right to carry on as normal then then it must be now. Or were we made of sterner stuff in the 70s?

    I think your generation were actually.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mrs Nester, I do apologise.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Cyclefree said:

    The election should go on. So should campaigning.

    Treat these scumbags with the contempt they deserve.

    Absolutely well said.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,084
    alex. said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Was hoping McDonnell would face some serious security questions, but both Marr and Sunday Politics cancelled.

    Surprised by that decision.
    So am I they ask us to carry on as normal then cancel programmes.Everyone else has to go to work, why are they different ? May and Khan have other things to do but other politicians can attend.
    To be fair if national campaigning is suspended you can't really do national interviews. Every question/comment that isn't anything but bland would be criticised as breaking the campaign suspension. And it's not fair to interview people if they are restricted in what they are able to say for accusations of 'exploiting' the incident.
    BBC says the interview with DD will go ahead but on Breakfast rather than Marr
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718

    GE2017 will not be cancelled, nor should it be.

    Locked in a Vauxhall Tavern with Madonna blaring away on the jukebox is my idea of the 7th circle of hell, although bearable if there’s plenty of ice and a decent tonic for the gin.

    They’ve probably got a range of gins and plenty of time to try them all!
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,009
    Quincel said:

    Chris said:

    Ridiculous idea. Is there even a legal mechanism for suspending a general election?

    Given our constitution tends to be flexible one imagines their must be. Even if it's the Queen doing so (in practice after the request of the PM and LoTO, that is).
    The Fixed Term Parliaments Act prescribes the date of the election. As parliament has been dissolved, I doubt anyone has the power to alter the date.
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792

    Dura_Ace said:

    Mrs wobbley better get that bloody podium out in downing Street and have a clear message of action. God forbid it is a terrorist sympathizer doing this next time.

    It will be the usual waffle with no concrete changes.
    She can't keep trotting out the same old platitudes every time ISIS does an away fixture in the UK. I think the voters have a right to expect something a bit more proactive than her usual soapy tit wank about security, vigilance, etc.
    She can't? The evidence suggests otherwise.
    The only person having a worse election than May is Sturgeon. Bring back Eck, again.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658

    GE2017 will not be cancelled, nor should it be.

    Locked in a Vauxhall Tavern with Madonna blaring away on the jukebox is my idea of the 7th circle of hell, although bearable if there’s plenty of ice and a decent tonic for the gin.

    They’ve probably got a range of gins and plenty of time to try them all!
    Not "a" Vauxhall tavern. THE Vauxhall Tavern ;)
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Was hoping McDonnell would face some serious security questions, but both Marr and Sunday Politics cancelled.

    And there you go. Terrorists already winning, again, and the Labour Party's IRA cheerleader-in-chief benefits into the bargain.

    TSE is right to highlight the parallel with the Guildford pub bombings. If it was right to carry on as normal then then it must be now. Or were we made of sterner stuff in the 70s?

    It was right then, it is right now, but sadly, yes, were were made of sterner stuff in the Seventies.

    To everyone who thinks we have to stop all the clocks every time one of these things happen out of respect to the victims, I would ask the following. Firstly, what respect does it show to them to allow the terrorists to cause the disruption that they want? And secondly, what if this is the new normal, and one of these attacks happens every fortnight or every week from now on? Do we simply cancel our entire public life and replace it with one continuous period of national mourning?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,749
    kle4 said:

    SNP 40% (-3); CON 27% (-1); LAB 25 (+8); LD 6% (-3); Other 2% (-1)

    Scottish poll from Survation, appologies if already posted

    Strong numbers for Labour, SNP continue to fade

    The death of slab has been overdone, perhaps. Might actually negatively affect transfer potential for unionists, as they stick with their team?
    Possibly. Afaicr polling suggests tactical voting to stop the Tories is just as much a thing as doing so to stop the SNP.
  • No need to apologise as I had not previously identified myself as female.

    Mrs Nester, I do apologise.

  • Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414
    edited June 2017
    nunu said:

    TSE is right to highlight the parallel with the Guildford pub bombings. If it was right to carry on as normal then then it must be now. Or were we made of sterner stuff in the 70s?

    I think your generation were actually.
    That's kind of you but I was only 8!

    (Or rather nearly 9 as I would have insisted on putting it at the time)
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Good Lord, did I get a First?

    I think that's my first First since my BA, waaaay back in 2004.

    More seriously, agree on the main point. If Theresa May postpones the election my vote will rapidly shuffle to the Liberal Democrats. But I don't think she will.

    One further point - I think these attacks are linked to the election. Remember 2007 when there were a series of failed attacks just as Brown took office? Or the train attacks in Spain? Attempting to exploit maximum confusion and disorganisation is standard terrorist MO.

    That makes it doubly important the election goes ahead even if we have to have men with guns outside every polling station.

    France also saw an increase in attacks in the run up to its election and of course the US had the Florida and California attacks last year in the middle of the presidential election
    You may be wrong about France. Based on Wikipedia, I see no increase in terrorist incidents before the election when compared with 2016.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_France#21st_century

    And Ramadan is more likely the crucial factor here. ISIL called for attacks during Ramadan, not the election; they just happen to coincide.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    kle4 said:

    SNP 40% (-3); CON 27% (-1); LAB 25 (+8); LD 6% (-3); Other 2% (-1)

    Scottish poll from Survation, appologies if already posted

    Strong numbers for Labour, SNP continue to fade

    The death of slab has been overdone, perhaps. Might actually negatively affect transfer potential for unionists, as they stick with their team?
    The SNP are down further than the SCons on that poll as a result of the SLAB rise
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,880

    Dura_Ace said:

    Mrs wobbley better get that bloody podium out in downing Street and have a clear message of action. God forbid it is a terrorist sympathizer doing this next time.

    It will be the usual waffle with no concrete changes.
    She can't keep trotting out the same old platitudes every time ISIS does an away fixture in the UK. I think the voters have a right to expect something a bit more proactive than her usual soapy tit wank about security, vigilance, etc.
    She can't? The evidence suggests otherwise.
    The only person having a worse election than May is Sturgeon. Bring back Eck, again.
    Gordon Wilson is still alive, they could give him another trot.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    Dura_Ace said:

    Mrs wobbley better get that bloody podium out in downing Street and have a clear message of action. God forbid it is a terrorist sympathizer doing this next time.

    It will be the usual waffle with no concrete changes.
    She can't keep trotting out the same old platitudes every time ISIS does an away fixture in the UK. I think the voters have a right to expect something a bit more proactive than her usual soapy tit wank about security, vigilance, etc.
    She can't? The evidence suggests otherwise.
    True but all politicians trott out the same lines These cowardly terrorist will not effect our lives .
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,009
    Jonathan said:

    Appreciate the sentiment of keeping calm and carrying on. It is certainly what I feel. But to maintain calm, the powers that be need to seriously wargame this.

    If we get attacks on polling day, there would be chaos and turnout would collapse. The police would tell voters to stay at home.

    In such circumstances, I would hope for at least a second day of voting. To enable things like that there need to be contingencies to suspend and reopen voting. It can't just be made up on the fly.

    If there were any localised disruption of that kind, I think a by-election would be the right remedy.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,047
    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Mrs wobbley better get that bloody podium out in downing Street and have a clear message of action. God forbid it is a terrorist sympathizer doing this next time.

    It will be the usual waffle with no concrete changes.
    She can't keep trotting out the same old platitudes every time ISIS does an away fixture in the UK. I think the voters have a right to expect something a bit more proactive than her usual soapy tit wank about security, vigilance, etc.
    She can't? The evidence suggests otherwise.
    The only person having a worse election than May is Sturgeon. Bring back Eck, again.
    Gordon Wilson is still alive, they could give him another trot.
    Jim Sillars for me - very staunch on necessity of leaving the EU.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,263
    alex. said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Was hoping McDonnell would face some serious security questions, but both Marr and Sunday Politics cancelled.

    Surprised by that decision.
    So am I they ask us to carry on as normal then cancel programmes.Everyone else has to go to work, why are they different ? May and Khan have other things to do but other politicians can attend.
    To be fair if national campaigning is suspended you can't really do national interviews. Every question/comment that isn't anything but bland would be criticised as breaking the campaign suspension. And it's not fair to interview people if they are restricted in what they are able to say for accusations of 'exploiting' the incident.
    I think that's right. It's extremely unfortunate but most people know what they want to vote by now, and I don't think we should allow the attacks to disrupt the election. We should resume campaigning by tomorrow if possible and then just get on with it. What benefit would we get from postponing the election, even if we could? Andif we did and there was another attack, would we postpone it again?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    SNP 40% (-3); CON 27% (-1); LAB 25 (+8); LD 6% (-3); Other 2% (-1)

    Scottish poll from Survation, appologies if already posted

    Strong numbers for Labour, SNP continue to fade

    The death of slab has been overdone, perhaps. Might actually negatively affect transfer potential for unionists, as they stick with their team?
    The SNP are down further than the SCons on that poll as a result of the SLAB rise
    Yes, but I was thinking that is done seats, particularly places where slab were second just ahead of Scon, given polling some slab might have gone scon thinking the latter had a better shot, if they truly wanted to stop the snp. But if slab are recovering a bit, that might not happen as they think they have the better shot,
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    nunu said:
    Not at my main computer but Struggling to work out how those final numbers co e out given that they have SCon retention well down on other surveys, far fewer LD to SCon switchers and a surge in SNP certainty to vote as far as I remember.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    If i heard correctly, when I was watching Sky last night a reporter said there had been several police terrorist related actions in the last couple of weeks in London - one incident when somebody was stopped carrying an arsenal of knives in a rucksack, and another raid where a woman was shot. There's so much stuff going on under the radar that it sounds surprising the attacks aren't coming daily.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Suspending GE = worst idea I have ever heard.

    I agree. I am not sure what purpose suspending elections or any other activity actually serve.

    On topic. What does these terrorist levels, severe, critical etc practically achieve ?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    kle4 said:

    SNP 40% (-3); CON 27% (-1); LAB 25 (+8); LD 6% (-3); Other 2% (-1)

    Scottish poll from Survation, appologies if already posted

    Strong numbers for Labour, SNP continue to fade

    The death of slab has been overdone, perhaps. Might actually negatively affect transfer potential for unionists, as they stick with their team?
    Looking at the tables, SLAB seems to be gaining in Mid and East Scotland particularly.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    alex. said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Was hoping McDonnell would face some serious security questions, but both Marr and Sunday Politics cancelled.

    Surprised by that decision.
    So am I they ask us to carry on as normal then cancel programmes.Everyone else has to go to work, why are they different ? May and Khan have other things to do but other politicians can attend.
    To be fair if national campaigning is suspended you can't really do national interviews. Every question/comment that isn't anything but bland would be criticised as breaking the campaign suspension. And it's not fair to interview people if they are restricted in what they are able to say for accusations of 'exploiting' the incident.
    True that is why they should not suspend campaigning .
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165
    alex. said:

    If i heard correctly, when I was watching Sky last night a reporter said there had been several police terrorist related actions in the last couple of weeks in London - one incident when somebody was stopped carrying an arsenal of knives in a rucksack, and another raid where a woman was shot. There's so much stuff going on under the radar that it sounds surprising the attacks aren't coming daily.

    That's right. The impact of a foiled attack isn't really as big as it should be.
  • asjohnstoneasjohnstone Posts: 1,276
    There does appear to be a increase in unionist tactical voting. No one appears to be buying the SNP "Evil Tories" mantra. Seems clear willingness to transfer between Lab to Con and visa versa.

    Demonization of Corbyn either not taken seriously, or more likely the mantra is "my enemies, enemy is my friend"
  • CyanCyan Posts: 1,262
    edited June 2017
    * Put the army on to the streets
    Give them a role protecting all crowded places such as shopping centres, sporting events, and concerts. Ensure that all security staff have regular contact with the military. Increase defence education. Today it is bombs at concerts and marauders with vehicles; tomorrow it may be men with AK-47s at schools or hospitals, as in the Caucasus. Make readiness and defence more than words: mobilise the population.

    * Prioritise
    To meet some of the resource requirements, reduce British military expenditure in other areas, such as the defence of other countries (e.g. Estonia), engagements in other countries (e.g. Afghanistan), and bases around the world (e.g. Diego Garcia). Leave NATO. Let Estonia defend itself. End the alliance with the US. Prioritise the defence of Britain.

    * Hit the money behind Daesh
    Tell the Salafist dictatorships of Saudi and Qatar that all of their assets in Britain will be frozen within one week unless they change their orientation and cooperate with the British government and with the UNSC, the great powers, and the governments in the poor part of the Arab world, to wipe Daesh out. They are unlikely to cooperate (or they will demand enormous payments to do so) and one result will almost certainly be the nationalisation of the Qatari-rescued Barclays Bank. I cannot believe that no Daesh money men are known to British security. Arrest them. Britain tried applying Malaya to Northern Ireland, and they are to an extent trying to apply NI to Daesh, as everyone knows. It isn't working. If the money men have Saudi or Qatari diplomatic status, expel them from the country with one hour's notice and seize the motherfuckers' assets. Cease selling weapons to Saudi and Qatar with immediate effect. Require all foreign intelligence agencies active in Britain - such as agencies of the US, Israel, Saudi, Germany, etc. - to work under British oversight, and if they don't like it, shut them down. British national security should be under British control. Aim for a new and friendly relationship with all anti-Daesh states in the Arab and Muslim world and end support for Israel.

    * Do NOT suspend the general election
    Find a role for Jeremy Corbyn and Tim Farron in the government and make it clear that they and Theresa May will continue to cooperate in the government after the election, whatever the result of it is. Do NOT make national security an issue that divides the main political parties. At the very least, let the main party leaders appear together, in the same room, rather than making uncoordinated "tweets". Raise the level of symbolic unity in order to assist with increasing cooperation in all parts of society against the terrorist threat: this is basic social psychology and is important.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    Well said @TSE. Take the morning off the campaign as a mark of respect then get back to it. Don't postpone or cancel any events, whether they be concerts, sporting events or elections.

    Keep calm and carry on, or we let the bastards win.
  • RhubarbRhubarb Posts: 359
    alex. said:

    If i heard correctly, when I was watching Sky last night a reporter said there had been several police terrorist related actions in the last couple of weeks in London - one incident when somebody was stopped carrying an arsenal of knives in a rucksack, and another raid where a woman was shot. There's so much stuff going on under the radar that it sounds surprising the attacks aren't coming daily.

    Last night they were raiding again in Manchester.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,084
    surbiton said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Suspending GE = worst idea I have ever heard.

    I agree. I am not sure what purpose suspending elections or any other activity actually serve.

    On topic. What does these terrorist levels, severe, critical etc practically achieve ?
    According to MI5:

    Threat levels in themselves do not require specific responses from the public. They are a tool for security practitioners working across different sectors of the Critical National Infrastructure (CNI) and the police to use in determining what protective security response may be required.

    Vigilance is vital regardless of the current national threat level. It is especially important given the current national threat. Sharing national threat levels with the general public keeps everyone informed. It explains the context for the various security measures (for example airport security or bag searches) which we may encounter in our daily lives.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,979
    LibDems have suspended national campaigning for today but are continuing with local campaigning (except in Bermondsey).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    While I maintain that any political inoact will be mininal, and impossible to identify as separate from the range of polling outcomes already on the table and the churn going on, as comments on here show, some of any reaction there is will be hardening in favour of ones current choice, probably more that than any switching.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,401
    Yorkcity said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Suspending GE = worst idea I have ever heard.

    Well this country has now suspended campaigning twice.So the terrorism has effected the election whatever we say.
    As far as I'm aware, it's only national campaigning which has been suspended. I've received no notification as an Association Chairman to pause local campaigning. The national decision, while regrettable in principle, is probably an inevitable consequence of the PM and other senior ministers having to attend COBRA and other ministerial duties due to the attack.
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 326

    TSE is right to highlight the parallel with the Guildford pub bombings. If it was right to carry on as normal then then it must be now. Or were we made of sterner stuff in the 70s?

    I don't think it's necessarily that. I agree it's a problem but it must also be hard for politicians to be knocking lumps out of one another in the immediate wake of an attack. Any argument on national security run the risk of looking like exploitation.
    I don't think that Corbyn should have gone around today attacking May on security, though that won't stop the Tories attacking Corbyn just under the radar. But Corbyn and the team should be heard explaining why they think a Labour government would be better than the alternative on a whole range of policies.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969

    TSE is right to highlight the parallel with the Guildford pub bombings. If it was right to carry on as normal then then it must be now. Or were we made of sterner stuff in the 70s?

    Anyone who lived in or was born in the 70s are made of sterner stuff.

    I say that as someone born towards the end of the 70s
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    edited June 2017
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    SNP 40% (-3); CON 27% (-1); LAB 25 (+8); LD 6% (-3); Other 2% (-1)

    Scottish poll from Survation, appologies if already posted

    Strong numbers for Labour, SNP continue to fade

    The death of slab has been overdone, perhaps. Might actually negatively affect transfer potential for unionists, as they stick with their team?
    The SNP are down further than the SCons on that poll as a result of the SLAB rise
    Yes, but I was thinking that is done seats, particularly places where slab were second just ahead of Scon, given polling some slab might have gone scon thinking the latter had a better shot, if they truly wanted to stop the snp. But if slab are recovering a bit, that might not happen as they think they have the better shot,
    In most Tory target seats and probably Edinburgh SW that will not be the case, East Renfrewshire and East Lothian maybe
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,084
    Barnesian said:

    LibDems have suspended national campaigning for today but are continuing with local campaigning (except in Bermondsey).

    No, a lot of local campaigning is being suspended - I have three emails from different seats cancelling local activity. The national email says to be sensitive to the incident and it seems people are taking the hint.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    surbiton said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Suspending GE = worst idea I have ever heard.

    I agree. I am not sure what purpose suspending elections or any other activity actually serve.

    On topic. What does these terrorist levels, severe, critical etc practically achieve ?
    When they go critical our hospital Gold Command tees up all services for a major incident.

    Presumably even more so for Police etc.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited June 2017
    I notice the labour spinners on here have been attacking tory government over police numbers in response to terrorist attack.

    Let's just remember for a second. What did jez do when asked if he would support an ISIS fund raiser release from prison for Christmas, go absolutely no bloody way. Of course not, he supported them. FFS...Robbing old ladies to fund ISIS and jezza goes into bat for them.

    Then Of course we have mcIRA who supported getting rid of the spooks. 10k more plods in panda cars but no F##king intelligence agencies, that will do the trick.

    These people disgust me.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    edited June 2017

    There does appear to be a increase in unionist tactical voting. No one appears to be buying the SNP "Evil Tories" mantra. Seems clear willingness to transfer between Lab to Con and visa versa

    MalcG said the other day 'many' people up there vote Tory (though iirc he found that baffling) - I almost fell out my chair (jk, malc). SNp still most popular of course.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    SNP 40% (-3); CON 27% (-1); LAB 25 (+8); LD 6% (-3); Other 2% (-1)

    Scottish poll from Survation, appologies if already posted

    Strong numbers for Labour, SNP continue to fade

    The death of slab has been overdone, perhaps. Might actually negatively affect transfer potential for unionists, as they stick with their team?
    The SNP are down further than the SCons on that poll as a result of the SLAB rise
    Yes, but I was thinking that is done seats, particularly places where slab were second just ahead of Scon, given polling some slab might have gone scon thinking the latter had a better shot, if they truly wanted to stop the snp. But if slab are recovering a bit, that might not happen as they think they have the better shot,
    In most Tory target seats and probably Edinburgh SW that will not be the case, East Renfrewshire and East Lothian maybe
    Here's hoping. I'd line all the unionist parties to make gains,
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    I like to see the following announcement from Buck House :

    Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith.

    It is hereby ordered that on 8th June 2017 at 7:00am that the bells in all churches and religious calls in other faiths in my realm shall be rung for a period of 28 minutes to celebrate the lives of the Manchester and London victims and to reaffirm on election day the values of our cherished democracy.

    Elizabeth R
This discussion has been closed.