Middle class entitlement freak worries about his wallet
again
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
The polling is mad but save us your faux concern for ordinary folk please. People tend to look after themselves and the entitled classes are particularly good at this - demanding the that the 'poor plebs' subsidise their privately educated hothoused thicko offspring at university while lapping up universal benefits to underpay their foreign nannies and cleaners!
I'm a patrician one nation Tory, never hidden that, so you're wrong.
Hmmm methinks the sore spot has been well and truly hit. You seem be strangely attracted though to the 'patrician wing' of the party when it comes to leadership. for all her faults May is basically a one nation Tory too - I guess she went to the wrong school.
Nope. She employed bullies and condoned their behaviour, I dislike people like that.
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his wallet
again
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
The polling is mad but save us your faux concern for ordinary folk please. People tend to look after themselves and the entitled classes are particularly good at this - demanding the that the 'poor plebs' subsidise their privately educated hothoused thicko offspring at university while lapping up universal benefits to underpay their foreign nannies and cleaners!
I'm a patrician one nation Tory, never hidden that, so you're wrong.
Hmmm methinks the sore spot has been well and truly hit. You seem be strangely attracted though to the 'patrician wing' of the party when it comes to leadership. for all her faults May is basically a one nation Tory too - I guess she went to the wrong school.
Nope. She employed bullies and condoned their behaviour, I dislike people like that.
ROFL - and we thought you 'got' politics.
I do get politics. As a former Old Oxonian said of me
'You would make for a great Downing Street Chief of Staff, or Chief Whip, or the head of the IRA's nutting squad'
I think the latter was based on my views about Mark Reckless and his defection therein.
Interestingly, 34% of Remain voters believe that significant economic damage would be a price worth paying to achieve Brexit (38% disagree).
Overall, 48% of voters believe it would be a price worth paying, 28% don't.
You've misread that
However, it seems that a significant minority of Remain voters would be happy for the economy to suffer should it mean that Brexit were averted. One in three Remain voters (34%), say that “significant damage to the UK economy would be a price worth paying if it meant that Britain stayed in the European Union”. This was only a slightly lower figure than the 38% who thought that averting Brexit at such a cost was too high (the remaining 27% don’t know).
Interestingly, 34% of Remain voters believe that significant economic damage would be a price worth paying to achieve Brexit (38% disagree).
Overall, 48% of voters believe it would be a price worth paying, 28% don't.
You've misread that
However, it seems that a significant minority of Remain voters would be happy for the economy to suffer should it mean that Brexit were averted. One in three Remain voters (34%), say that “significant damage to the UK economy would be a price worth paying if it meant that Britain stayed in the European Union”. This was only a slightly lower figure than the 38% who thought that averting Brexit at such a cost was too high (the remaining 27% don’t know).
So nutters to the right and nutters to the left. Who would have guessed it. Lots of folk aren't obsessed with money.
Interestingly, 34% of Remain voters believe that significant economic damage would be a price worth paying to achieve Brexit (38% disagree).
Overall, 48% of voters believe it would be a price worth paying, 28% don't.
You've misread that
However, it seems that a significant minority of Remain voters would be happy for the economy to suffer should it mean that Brexit were averted. One in three Remain voters (34%), say that “significant damage to the UK economy would be a price worth paying if it meant that Britain stayed in the European Union”. This was only a slightly lower figure than the 38% who thought that averting Brexit at such a cost was too high (the remaining 27% don’t know).
So nutters to the right and nutters to the left. Who would have guessed it. Lots of folk aren't obsessed with money.
It's Stealers Wheel world of politics at the moment.
Interestingly, 34% of Remain voters believe that significant economic damage would be a price worth paying to achieve Brexit (38% disagree).
Overall, 48% of voters believe it would be a price worth paying, 28% don't.
You've misread that
However, it seems that a significant minority of Remain voters would be happy for the economy to suffer should it mean that Brexit were averted. One in three Remain voters (34%), say that “significant damage to the UK economy would be a price worth paying if it meant that Britain stayed in the European Union”. This was only a slightly lower figure than the 38% who thought that averting Brexit at such a cost was too high (the remaining 27% don’t know).
Ah, so I see. Though it does point to a considerable majority of voters not being motivated by economic considerations.
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his wallet
again
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
your in
corporate pork barrelling
If Leave voters were concerned about the incomes of the poor they would not be prepared to accept economic harm and job losses in order to achieve Brexit.
you appear to ignore that for many that was the reality of the EU
industries generated
the EU worked for a select few and stuffed the rest
That doesn't follow.
Round the corner from one of my factories was the old HP sauce factory .
The factory was closed and production shifted to the "low cost" Netherlands everybody lost their job.
For Heinz it was easy to close a UK factory, sell the property anuit their bonuses.
So a UK issue, not an EU one.
as you keep reminding me we are still part of the EU
so an EU issue
large single market so what's the hit for moving ?
I find it hard to believe that the Dutch or any other EU member state will penalise UK companies tariff on HP sauce?), but I wonder how many businesses like that have relocated in that way over the years.
In manufacturing lots
Peugeot Ryton transferred to Slovakia Bendicks mints to Germany - fucking mints !
I could bore the tits off you, but it simply illustrates the UK establishment doesnt understand the consequences of being in the EU , nor does it care and if the peasants are revolting they shouldnt be shocked
anyway I have to go see a customer about a project where Im reshoring products from china
tiocfaidh ar la. :-)
By "like that" I mean manufacturers whose primary market is the UK. I doubt that applies to either Peugeot or Bendicks. HP sauce is very specifically a British and Irish taste, at least in Europe.
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
They've been misled.
And they'll change their minds when they lose their own job.
Interestingly, 34% of Remain voters believe that significant economic damage would be a price worth paying to achieve Brexit (38% disagree).
Overall, 48% of voters believe it would be a price worth paying, 28% don't.
You've misread that
However, it seems that a significant minority of Remain voters would be happy for the economy to suffer should it mean that Brexit were averted. One in three Remain voters (34%), say that “significant damage to the UK economy would be a price worth paying if it meant that Britain stayed in the European Union”. This was only a slightly lower figure than the 38% who thought that averting Brexit at such a cost was too high (the remaining 27% don’t know).
Ah, so I see. Though it does point to a considerable majority of voters not being motivated by economic considerations.
A lot of the politically engaged were quite gobby on the subject of the referendum. Rather than not being guided by economic considerations, I think this is much more a case of trench digging and tin hat wearing as the reality emerges, whatever that may be.
And the remain half of the survey - what does that even mean? Is it a willingness to contemplate the downsides of rejoining after a Brexit disaster or what? It is a counterfactual question.
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
They've been misled.
And they'll change their minds when they lose their own job.
As previously noted, most over 65s do not have jobs. They have protected incomes.
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
Lattes are less important than liberty. Who'd have guessed?
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his wallet
again
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
your sympathy for the poor plebs never seemed to be active when we were in the EU otherwise they would have voted to stay in
corporate pork barrelling
Clearly you weren't paying attention.
I was a strong supporter of George Osborne's policy to keep on raising the personal substantially.
Look on the bright side, your economic terrorism will ultimately see the UK rejoin the EU, replete with membership of the Euro and Schengen.
The Union forever! Hurrah, boys, hurrah! Down with the traitors, up with the stars; While we rally round the flag, boys, we rally once again, Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
We are springing to the call for three hundred thousand more, Shouting the battle cry of freedom! And we'll fill the vacant ranks of our brothers gone before Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
I have no doubt you supported Osborne raising his personal wealth substantially, but the point of being CoE is to do it for the couintry as a whole
how's that northern powerhouse coming along ?
The Northern Powerhouse has gone to shit since Osborne left, the pound shop Gordon Brown and Chris Grayling are pising off the North so much.
Billions can be found for Crossrail but a few million can't be found to electrify The Pennine routes.
It would help all of us, Mr Butt, if you could get over your mancrush on Osborne and stop this destructive misleading spin.
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
Lattes are less important than liberty. Who'd have guessed?
Oh, wait....
I'd forgotten about the morons who thought that being in the EU was analogous to slavery. Thanks for the reminder.
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
They've been misled.
And they'll change their minds when they lose their own job.
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
Lattes are less important than liberty. Who'd have guessed?
Oh, wait....
I'd forgotten about the morons who thought that being in the EU was analogous to slavery. Thanks for the reminder.
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
Lattes are less important than liberty. Who'd have guessed?
Oh, wait....
I'd forgotten about the morons who thought that being in the EU was analogous to slavery. Thanks for the reminder.
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
They've been misled.
And they'll change their minds when they lose their own job.
As previously noted, most over 65s do not have jobs. They have protected incomes.
Only until death. An occurrence which is influenced by the wealth of a country.
"FRANCE and Sweden are preparing for a mighty scrap with Eastern European nations as they prepare the ground for a crackdown on low paid migration under free movement rules." - I suppose they don't want social dumping either (Guy Verhofstadt - when saying the EU wouldn't accept its people back).
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
Lattes are less important than liberty. Who'd have guessed?
Oh, wait....
Which three liberties will british people welcome most?
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
Lattes are less important than liberty. Who'd have guessed?
Oh, wait....
Which three liberties will british people welcome most?
Freedom from smug British metropolitans identifying more with fellow smug metropolitans in Madrid, Paris etc than their own countrymen would be a good start.
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
Lattes are less important than liberty. Who'd have guessed?
Oh, wait....
Which three liberties will british people welcome most?
Freedom from smug British metropolitans identifying more with fellow smug metropolitans in Madrid, Paris etc than their own countrymen would be a good start.
Not quite the reasoned answer i was seeking To a reasonable question
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
Lattes are less important than liberty. Who'd have guessed?
Oh, wait....
Which three liberties will british people welcome most?
Freedom from smug British metropolitans identifying more with fellow smug metropolitans in Madrid, Paris etc than their own countrymen would be a good start.
Not quite the reasoned answer i was seeking To a reasonable question
I'm serious. Membership of the EU has helped to erode the social contract between Britons; employer and employee, rich and poor, educated and uneducated, metropolitan and provincial.
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
Lattes are less important than liberty. Who'd have guessed?
Oh, wait....
Which three liberties will british people welcome most?
Freedom from smug British metropolitans identifying more with fellow smug metropolitans in Madrid, Paris etc than their own countrymen would be a good start.
Not quite the reasoned answer i was seeking To a reasonable question
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
They've been misled.
And they'll change their minds when they lose their own job.
As previously noted, most over 65s do not have jobs. They have protected incomes.
Protected? Over 60% of the landlords in our sample were aged 55 or older. (Kath Scanlon and Christine Whitehead, LSE London December 2016).
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
Lattes are less important than liberty. Who'd have guessed?
Oh, wait....
Which three liberties will british people welcome most?
Freedom from smug British metropolitans identifying more with fellow smug metropolitans in Madrid, Paris etc than their own countrymen would be a good start.
Not quite the reasoned answer i was seeking To a reasonable question
It's to be expected from Mortimer.
People who don't like answers often consider them bogus.
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
They've been misled.
And they'll change their minds when they lose their own job.
As previously noted, most over 65s do not have jobs. They have protected incomes.
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
Lattes are less important than liberty. Who'd have guessed?
Oh, wait....
Which three liberties will british people welcome most?
Freedom from smug British metropolitans identifying more with fellow smug metropolitans in Madrid, Paris etc than their own countrymen would be a good start.
Not quite the reasoned answer i was seeking To a reasonable question
It's to be expected from Mortimer.
People who don't like answers often consider them bogus.
Well, let's take your answer at face value you then... You think one of the top three liberties British people will welcome most is: "Freedom from smug British metropolitans identifying more with fellow smug metropolitans in Madrid, Paris etc than their own countrymen"
Do you really think Brexit will stop anybody in this country being pro-European?
Why should automatically I have any more affinity for a fellow Brit than a fellow European? For example, I am much more likely to identify with people from other countries with liberal progressive views than with a reactionary Ukipper who wants a return to a rose-tinted 1950s Britain that never existied anyway!
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
Lattes are less important than liberty. Who'd have guessed?
Oh, wait....
Which three liberties will british people welcome most?
Freedom from smug British metropolitans identifying more with fellow smug metropolitans in Madrid, Paris etc than their own countrymen would be a good start.
Not quite the reasoned answer i was seeking To a reasonable question
It's to be expected from Mortimer.
People who don't like answers often consider them bogus.
Well, let's take your answer at face value you then... You think one of the top three liberties British people will welcome most is: "Freedom from smug British metropolitans identifying more with fellow smug metropolitans in Madrid, Paris etc than their own countrymen"
Do you really think Brexit will stop anybody in this country being pro-European?
Why should automatically I have any more affinity for a fellow Brit than a fellow European? For example, I am much more likely to identify with people from other countries with liberal progressive views than with a reactionary Ukipper who wants a return to a rose-tinted 1950s Britain that never existied anyway!
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
Lattes are less important than liberty. Who'd have guessed?
Oh, wait....
Which three liberties will british people welcome most?
Freedom from smug British metropolitans identifying more with fellow smug metropolitans in Madrid, Paris etc than their own countrymen would be a good start.
Not quite the reasoned answer i was seeking To a reasonable question
You are a relative newcomer to the Site and can therefore be forgiven for not knowing which posters are seldom to be found in the same parish as a reasoned answer.
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
Lattes are less important than liberty. Who'd have guessed?
Oh, wait....
Which three liberties will british people welcome most?
Freedom from smug British metropolitans identifying more with fellow smug metropolitans in Madrid, Paris etc than their own countrymen would be a good start.
Not quite the reasoned answer i was seeking To a reasonable question
You are a relative newcomer to the Site and can therefore be forgiven for not knowing which posters are seldom to be found in the same parish as a reasoned answer.
I wrote a thread header during the referendum saying that relying on people to put economic certainty above the sovereignty of leaving the EU was brave.
My trust in the British voter was proved right. More correct than the hundreds of Remain headers we've had before and since the vote.
I think we should remember that no prime minister with a working majority who has held a snap election before 4 years has passed has ever won that election.
Rather a limited sample set given the criteria (and need to define "working majority".) Of those, prior to 2017 and subsequent to 1900 (and assuming a majority of 3 is not a "working majority", disqualifying 1966), we have: 1974 (F) - 3 years, 8 months - lost 1955 - 3 years, 7 months - won 1931 - 2 years, 5 months - won 1923 - 1 year, 1 month - lost
I suppose 'soft Brexit' was always LaLaLand Brexit anyway; Soft Brexit is as achievable as a Labour government.
Off-the-shelf EEA and/or EFTA was achievable, but only if it had been on the ballot paper at the referendum or a party had actually argued for it at the general election.
I still think a two-question referendum, with Q2 being along the lines of "if Q1 returns a Yes, should the UK seek membership of EEA/EFTA", would have saved a whole lot of problems. My guess is that Cameron didn't put it on because he thought it would make Q1 more likely to pass. Oops.
Who do you believe would do better in a general election than May?
I would like to 'skip a generation' and look at some of the younger options - someone the likes of Johnny Mercer or Esther Mc Vey. Sadly I doubt it will happen.
I am tipping KEMI BADENOCH, a new Conservative black woman MP as future cabinet material and maybe future PM material.
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
Lattes are less important than liberty. Who'd have guessed?
Oh, wait....
Which three liberties will british people welcome most?
Freedom from smug British metropolitans identifying more with fellow smug metropolitans in Madrid, Paris etc than their own countrymen would be a good start.
Not quite the reasoned answer i was seeking To a reasonable question
It's to be expected from Mortimer.
People who don't like answers often consider them bogus.
Well, let's take your answer at face value you then... You think one of the top three liberties British people will welcome most is: "Freedom from smug British metropolitans identifying more with fellow smug metropolitans in Madrid, Paris etc than their own countrymen"
Do you really think Brexit will stop anybody in this country being pro-European?
Why should automatically I have any more affinity for a fellow Brit than a fellow European? For example, I am much more likely to identify with people from other countries with liberal progressive views than with a reactionary Ukipper who wants a return to a rose-tinted 1950s Britain that never existied anyway!
QED, I'd say.
Yeah right, you got me bang to rights there - I'm totaly convinced of your argument now (!?!)
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
Lattes are less important than liberty. Who'd have guessed?
Oh, wait....
Which three liberties will british people welcome most?
Freedom from smug British metropolitans identifying more with fellow smug metropolitans in Madrid, Paris etc than their own countrymen would be a good start.
Not quite the reasoned answer i was seeking To a reasonable question
It's to be expected from Mortimer.
People who don't like answers often consider them bogus.
Well, let's take your answer at face value you then... You think one of the top three liberties British people will welcome most is: "Freedom from smug British metropolitans identifying more with fellow smug metropolitans in Madrid, Paris etc than their own countrymen"
Do you really think Brexit will stop anybody in this country being pro-European?
Why should automatically I have any more affinity for a fellow Brit than a fellow European? For example, I am much more likely to identify with people from other countries with liberal progressive views than with a reactionary Ukipper who wants a return to a rose-tinted 1950s Britain that never existied anyway!
QED, I'd say.
Yeah right, you got me bang to rights there - I'm totaly convinced of your argument now (!?!)
Sadly, it all seems to be based on hate.
No. It is based on observation.
Or are you classing disagreeing with the status quo as hate now?
Go and look at a graph of GDP per capita since 2007 and you'll see what drives my posting about this.
Most voters were not 'reactionary UKIPers' but decent folk of all political persuasions who were rejecting the status quo. The fact that you think Leave voters to be reactionary belies your bias.
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
Lattes are less important than liberty. Who'd have guessed?
Oh, wait....
Which three liberties will british people welcome most?
Freedom from smug British metropolitans identifying more with fellow smug metropolitans in Madrid, Paris etc than their own countrymen would be a good start.
Not quite the reasoned answer i was seeking To a reasonable question
You are a relative newcomer to the Site and can therefore be forgiven for not knowing which posters are seldom to be found in the same parish as a reasoned answer.
I wrote a thread header during the referendum saying that relying on people to put economic certainty above the sovereignty of leaving the EU was brave.
My trust in the British voter was proved right. More correct than the hundreds of Remain headers we've had before and since the vote.
I was addressing Nichomar, Mortimer. What made you put your hand up?
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
Lattes are less important than liberty. Who'd have guessed?
Oh, wait....
Which three liberties will british people welcome most?
Freedom from smug British metropolitans identifying more with fellow smug metropolitans in Madrid, Paris etc than their own countrymen would be a good start.
Not quite the reasoned answer i was seeking To a reasonable question
You are a relative newcomer to the Site and can therefore be forgiven for not knowing which posters are seldom to be found in the same parish as a reasoned answer.
I wrote a thread header during the referendum saying that relying on people to put economic certainty above the sovereignty of leaving the EU was brave.
My trust in the British voter was proved right. More correct than the hundreds of Remain headers we've had before and since the vote.
I was addressing Nichomar, Mortimer. What made you put your hand up?
The fact that you responded to his criticism of my post with an ad hominem, perhaps?
It's a daft question anyway, because it all depends on how much self-sacrice, how much Brexit , how much sovereignity etc.
How many voters would accept National penury in order to have six cockle-gatherers sent home from Southend? Not many. But how many would accept another 100m on the national debt in order to regain full control of our borders? Quite a few, I guess.
If you can't quantify the question, you can't answer it.
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
Lattes are less important than liberty. Who'd have guessed?
Oh, wait....
Which three liberties will british people welcome most?
Freedom from smug British metropolitans identifying more with fellow smug metropolitans in Madrid, Paris etc than their own countrymen would be a good start.
Not quite the reasoned answer i was seeking To a reasonable question
You are a relative newcomer to the Site and can therefore be forgiven for not knowing which posters are seldom to be found in the same parish as a reasoned answer.
I wrote a thread header during the referendum saying that relying on people to put economic certainty above the sovereignty of leaving the EU was brave.
My trust in the British voter was proved right. More correct than the hundreds of Remain headers we've had before and since the vote.
I was addressing Nichomar, Mortimer. What made you put your hand up?
The fact that you responded to his criticism of my post with an ad hominem, perhaps?
To be honest, I didn't have any particular hominum in mind, but since you have spoken....;-)
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
Lattes are less important than liberty. Who'd have guessed?
Oh, wait....
Which three liberties will british people welcome most?
Freedom from smug British metropolitans identifying more with fellow smug metropolitans in Madrid, Paris etc than their own countrymen would be a good start.
Not quite the reasoned answer i was seeking To a reasonable question
You are a relative newcomer to the Site and can therefore be forgiven for not knowing which posters are seldom to be found in the same parish as a reasoned answer.
I wrote a thread header during the referendum saying that relying on people to put economic certainty above the sovereignty of leaving the EU was brave.
My trust in the British voter was proved right. More correct than the hundreds of Remain headers we've had before and since the vote.
I was addressing Nichomar, Mortimer. What made you put your hand up?
The fact that you responded to his criticism of my post with an ad hominem, perhaps?
To be honest, I didn't have any particular hominum in mind, but since you have spoken....;-)
Always happy to correct inaccuracies ;-) (that is basically what this site's wonderful consist of, after all).
Who do you believe would do better in a general election than May?
I would like to 'skip a generation' and look at some of the younger options - someone the likes of Johnny Mercer or Esther Mc Vey. Sadly I doubt it will happen.
I am tipping KEMI BADENOCH, a new Conservative black woman MP as future cabinet material and maybe future PM material.
YouGov have been asking daft questions? Well, I never!
Well think about it. When people know I'm interested in betting, they often ask me to tip them a winner. The only sensible answer to that is that the most likely winner of most events is the favorite. Of course we all know that if you always back the favorite, you must in due course lose. You can only win long term by backing the value, the choice that is a better price than it should be. But any horse has its price. Even one with three legs has a price at which a modest investment becomes value (although we're probably above a million to one by now, but you get the idea.)
It's the same with Brexit. I voted Remain, but I wouldn't have done so at any price. If the EU has introduced a law effecting the slaughter of first born, I'd have said the cost was too great, despite all the other benefits, and that the value lay on the Leave side.
On balance then you could say I thought the value was with Remain. I could be proved wrong, although I have yet to see any indication that might be so. You could also say that my valuation was something of an estimate, although I would suggest the degree of estimation on the Leave side was perhaps greater, since Remainers were at least living in a remain world at the time of the vote.
All I'm saying then is that without some attempt at evaluating the cost/benefit of a choice, the choice itself is somewhat meaningless.
Statement of the obvious, perhaps, but evidently more obvious to some than others.
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
They've been misled.
And they'll change their minds when they lose their own job.
As previously noted, most over 65s do not have jobs. They have protected incomes.
I kind of wonder if we unprotect those incomes, which are substantially underwritten by the diminishing pay packets of the next generation, whether the older generation would be quite so sanguine about making financial sacrifices for Brexit.
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
They've been misled.
And they'll change their minds when they lose their own job.
As previously noted, most over 65s do not have jobs. They have protected incomes.
I kind of wonder if we unprotect those incomes, which are substantially underwritten by the diminishing pay packets of the next generation, whether the older generation would be quite so sanguine about making financial sacrifices for Brexit.
The old have shafted the young in many ways, not just Brexit and Pensions. But maybe some good will come of it. It may even teach the lazy f*ckers to vote.
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
Lattes are less important than liberty. Who'd have guessed?
Oh, wait....
The EU is on the side of liberty. Freedom of Movement, and of work, capital and trade are all personal liberties the EU protects and Brexiteers want to restrict.
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
Lattes are less important than liberty. Who'd have guessed?
Oh, wait....
Which three liberties will british people welcome most?
Freedom from smug British metropolitans identifying more with fellow smug metropolitans in Madrid, Paris etc than their own countrymen would be a good start.
The criticism against Jews through the ages was that they owed greater loyalty to their tribe than to their countrymen.
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
Lattes are less important than liberty. Who'd have guessed?
Oh, wait....
The EU is on the side of liberty. Freedom of Movement, and of work, capital and trade are all personal liberties the EU protects and Brexiteers want to restrict.
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his wallet
again
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
The polling is mad but save us your faux concern for ordinary folk please. People tend to look after themselves and the entitled classes are particularly good at this - demanding the that the 'poor plebs' subsidise their privately educated hothoused thicko offspring at university while lapping up universal benefits to underpay their foreign nannies and cleaners!
I'm a patrician one nation Tory, never hidden that, so you're wrong.
Hmmm methinks the sore spot has been well and truly hit. You seem be strangely attracted though to the 'patrician wing' of the party when it comes to leadership. for all her faults May is basically a one nation Tory too - I guess she went to the wrong school.
Nope. She employed bullies and condoned their behaviour, I dislike people like that.
I was indifferent until she proved she is not up to a major aspect of the job - appealing to the public.
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
They've been misled.
And they'll change their minds when they lose their own job.
As previously noted, most over 65s do not have jobs. They have protected incomes.
I kind of wonder if we unprotect those incomes, which are substantially underwritten by the diminishing pay packets of the next generation, whether the older generation would be quite so sanguine about making financial sacrifices for Brexit.
The old have shafted the young in many ways, not just Brexit and Pensions. But maybe some good will come of it. It may even teach the lazy f*ckers to vote.
Let's get some perspective here: when I was growing up neither I nor my parents had anything like the sorts of luxuries or spending money which so many now seem to take for granted. There is certainly an issue with housing and how to save for pensions and old age is another big issue. These are issues which will need to be addressed for the next generations.
But - at the risk of sounding curmudgeonly - if you want to accumulate savings you have to not spend on the latest gadget and holidays here, there and everywhere and cheap clothes etc. The young have opportunities to spend and enjoy life which have transformed every day life in one generation. What was normal for me growing up in London and Italy not so very long ago would seem like Dickensian-style deprivation to some now.
But spending - however lovely it is - has costs. Twas thus for previous generations and it will be so for future ones as well. No way of squaring that circle and spelling that out, sooner rather than later, is not "shafting" the next generation. It's spelling out some eternal economic verities.
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
Lattes are less important than liberty. Who'd have guessed?
Oh, wait....
Which three liberties will british people welcome most?
Freedom from smug British metropolitans identifying more with fellow smug metropolitans in Madrid, Paris etc than their own countrymen would be a good start.
The criticism against Jews through the ages was that they owed greater loyalty to their tribe than to their countrymen.
Citizens of nowhere had echoes of rootless cosmopolitans.
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
Lattes are less important than liberty. Who'd have guessed?
Oh, wait....
The EU is on the side of liberty. Freedom of Movement, and of work, capital and trade are all personal liberties the EU protects and Brexiteers want to restrict.
Freedom of trade? Well, it's a view.
Yes. There's not a shadow of doubt Britain will have less trade after Brexit because of freedoms to trade that have been lost.
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
Lattes are less important than liberty. Who'd have guessed?
Oh, wait....
Which three liberties will british people welcome most?
Not quite the reasoned answer i was seeking To a reasonable question
It's to be expected from Mortimer.
.
Well, let's take your answer at face value you then... You think one of the top three liberties British people will welcome most is: "Freedom from smug British metropolitans identifying more with fellow smug metropolitans in Madrid, Paris etc than their own countrymen"
Do you really think Brexit will stop anybody in this country being pro-European?
Why should automatically I have any more affinity for a fellow Brit than a fellow European? For example, I am much more likely to identify with people from other countries with liberal progressive views than with a reactionary Ukipper who wants a return to a rose-tinted 1950s Britain that never existied anyway!
QED, I'd say.
Yeah right, you got me bang to rights there - I'm totaly convinced of your argument now (!?!)
Sadly, it all seems to be based on hate.
No. It is based on observation.
Or are you classing disagreeing with the status quo as hate now?
Go and look at a graph of GDP per capita since 2007 and you'll see what drives my posting about this.
Most voters were not 'reactionary UKIPers' but decent folk of all political persuasions who were rejecting the status quo. The fact that you think Leave voters to be reactionary belies your bias.
Ok we're never going to agree but I have never said, and do not believe, that all or even most Leave voters were reactionaries. I merely pointed out that I feel I have more in common with progressive liberals in Europe (or across the world) than I do with reactionaries in this country.
GDP per capita in this country since 2007? It's not a great picture - do I think that's the fault of Europe or the government of this country and its stupid addiction to cost-cutting rather than growth stimulation? The latter, of course!
As I say, we won't agree, but I enjoy hearing the opposite viewpoints - even when their are barmy!
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
They've been misled.
And they'll change their minds when they lose their own job.
As previously noted, most over 65s do not have jobs. They have protected incomes.
I kind of wonder if we unprotect those incomes, which are substantially underwritten by the diminishing pay packets of the next generation, whether the older generation would be quite so sanguine about making financial sacrifices for Brexit.
The old have shafted the young in many ways, not just Brexit and Pensions. But maybe some good will come of it. It may even teach the lazy f*ckers to vote.
Let's get some perspective here: when I was growing up neither I nor my parents had anything like the sorts of luxuries or spending money which so many now seem to take for granted. There is certainly an issue with housing and how to save for pensions and old age is another big issue. These are issues which will need to be addressed for the next generations.
But - at the risk of sounding curmudgeonly - if you want to accumulate savings you have to not spend on the latest gadget and holidays here, there and everywhere and cheap clothes etc. The young have opportunities to spend and enjoy life which have transformed every day life in one generation. What was normal for me growing up in London and Italy not so very long ago would seem like Dickensian-style deprivation to some now.
But spending - however lovely it is - has costs. Twas thus for previous generations and it will be so for future ones as well. No way of squaring that circle and spelling that out, sooner rather than later, is not "shafting" the next generation. It's spelling out some eternal economic verities.
The younger generation no longer seem to want to spend on houses and cars but just on holidays and going out.
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
Lattes are less important than liberty. Who'd have guessed?
Oh, wait....
The EU is on the side of liberty. Freedom of Movement, and of work, capital and trade are all personal liberties the EU protects and Brexiteers want to restrict.
Freedom of trade? Well, it's a view.
Yes. There's not a shadow of doubt Britain will have less trade after Brexit because of freedoms to trade that have been lost.
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
Lattes are less important than liberty. Who'd have guessed?
Oh, wait....
The EU is on the side of liberty. Freedom of Movement, and of work, capital and trade are all personal liberties the EU protects and Brexiteers want to restrict.
Freedom of trade? Well, it's a view.
Yes. There's not a shadow of doubt Britain will have less trade after Brexit because of freedoms to trade that have been lost.
The EU is incredibly protectionist. Saying it believes in freedom of trade is risible.
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
They've been misled.
And they'll change their minds when they lose their own job.
As previously noted, most over 65s do not have jobs. They have protected incomes.
I kind of wonder if we unprotect those incomes, which are substantially underwritten by the diminishing pay packets of the next generation, whether the older generation would be quite so sanguine about making financial sacrifices for Brexit.
The old have shafted the young in many ways, not just Brexit and Pensions. But maybe some good will come of it. It may even teach the lazy f*ckers to vote.
Let's get some perspective here: when I was growing up neither I nor my parents had anything like the sorts of luxuries or spending money which so many now seem to take for granted. There is certainly an issue with housing and how to save for pensions and old age is another big issue. These are issues which will need to be addressed for the next generations.
But - at the risk of sounding curmudgeonly - if you want to accumulate savings you have to not spend on the latest gadget and holidays here, there and everywhere and cheap clothes etc. The young have opportunities to spend and enjoy life which have transformed every day life in one generation. What was normal for me growing up in London and Italy not so very long ago would seem like Dickensian-style deprivation to some now.
But spending - however lovely it is - has costs. Twas thus for previous generations and it will be so for future ones as well. No way of squaring that circle and spelling that out, sooner rather than later, is not "shafting" the next generation. It's spelling out some eternal economic verities.
The younger generation no longer seem to want to spend on houses and cars but just on holidays and going out.
The younger generation (by which I mean anywhere up to late 30s, especially in London) wants to spend on houses but knows it's impossible until their parents die and they inherit.
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
Lattes are less important than liberty. Who'd have guessed?
Oh, wait....
Which three liberties will british people welcome most?
Not quite the reasoned answer i was seeking To a reasonable question
It's to be expected from Mortimer.
.
Well, let's take your answer at face value you then... You think one of the top three liberties British people will welcome most is: "Freedom from smug British metropolitans identifying more with fellow smug metropolitans in Madrid, Paris etc than their own countrymen"
Do you really think Brexit will stop anybody in this country being pro-European?
Why should automatically I have any more affinity for a fellow Brit than a fellow European? For example, I am much more likely to identify with people from other countries with liberal progressive views than with a reactionary Ukipper who wants a return to a rose-tinted 1950s Britain that never existied anyway!
QED, I'd say.
Yeah right, you got me bang to rights there - I'm totaly convinced of your argument now (!?!)
Sadly, it all seems to be based on hate.
No. It is based . belies your bias.
Ok we're never going to agree but I have never said, and do not believe, that all or even most Leave voters were reactionaries. I merely pointed out that I feel I have more in common with progressive liberals in Europe (or across the world) than I do with reactionaries in this country.
GDP per capita in this country since 2007? It's not a great picture - do I think that's the fault of Europe or the government of this country and its stupid addiction to cost-cutting rather than growth stimulation? The latter, of course!
As I say, we won't agree, but I enjoy hearing the opposite viewpoints - even when their are barmy!
thats a really stupid statement
if we had been in the Euro the EU would be forcing austerity on us like it did to loads of others only harder since we borrowed more
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
They've been misled.
And they'll change their minds when they lose their own job.
As previously noted, most over 65s do not have jobs. They have protected incomes.
I kind of wonder if we unprotect those incomes, which are substantially underwritten by the diminishing pay packets of the next generation, whether the older generation would be quite so sanguine about making financial sacrifices for Brexit.
The old have shafted the young in many ways, not just Brexit and Pensions. But maybe some good will come of it. It may even teach the lazy f*ckers to vote.
Let's get some perspective here: when I was growing up neither I nor my parents had anything like the sorts of luxuries or spending money which so many now seem to take for granted. There is certainly an issue with housing and how to save for pensions and old age is another big issue. These are issues which will need to be addressed for the next generations.
But - at the risk of sounding curmudgeonly - if you want to accumulate savings you have to not spend on the latest gadget and holidays here, there and everywhere and cheap clothes etc. The young have opportunities to spend and enjoy life which have transformed every day life in one generation. What was normal for me growing up in London and Italy not so very long ago would seem like Dickensian-style deprivation to some now.
But spending - however lovely it is - has costs. Twas thus for previous generations and it will be so for future ones as well. No way of squaring that circle and spelling that out, sooner rather than later, is not "shafting" the next generation. It's spelling out some eternal economic verities.
The younger generation no longer seem to want to spend on houses and cars but just on holidays and going out.
The younger generation (by which I mean anywhere up to late 30s, especially in London) wants to spend on houses but knows it's impossible until their parents die and they inherit.
Pity those of us for whom inheriting is also not an option!
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
They've been misled.
And they'll change their minds when they lose their own job.
As previously noted, most over 65s do not have jobs. They have protected incomes.
I kind of wonder if we unprotect those incomes, which are substantially underwritten by the diminishing pay packets of the next generation, whether the older generation would be quite so sanguine about making financial sacrifices for Brexit.
The old have shafted the young in many ways, not just Brexit and Pensions. But maybe some good will come of it. It may even teach the lazy f*ckers to vote.
Let's get some perspective here: when I was growing up neither I nor my parents had anything like the sorts of luxuries or spending money which so many now seem to take for granted. There is certainly an issue with housing and how to save for pensions and old age is another big issue. These are issues which will need to be addressed for the next generations.
But - at the risk of sounding curmudgeonly - if you want to accumulate savings you have to not spend on the latest gadget and holidays here, there and everywhere and cheap clothes etc. The young have opportunities to spend and enjoy life which have transformed every day life in one generation. What was normal for me growing up in London and Italy not so very long ago would seem like Dickensian-style deprivation to some now.
But spending - however lovely it is - has costs. Twas thus for previous generations and it will be so for future ones as well. No way of squaring that circle and spelling that out, sooner rather than later, is not "shafting" the next generation. It's spelling out some eternal economic verities.
The younger generation no longer seem to want to spend on houses and cars but just on holidays and going out.
Pity those of us for whom inheriting is also not an option!
Ultra-low interest rates long term will create the most massive divide between children (And grandchildren) of people who rent and those on the ladder. The effect is larger in London and the south, up here the 'gap' between a renter and a home-owner is alot smaller; which feels inherently healthier.
The honest answer is I don't know, but looking at the wording might he have been the receiver designated by the local courts? There was a function of some sort under the Bankruptcy Act of 1825, which was formalised and put on a national basis in 1883. Was he a JP perhaps?
Thanks, that's a good theory, although none of the notices that I've found give any indication that there was a court order involved.
It looks and reads very much like an early version of a trust deed by which the estate of the bankrupt is vested in the trustee who is then responsible for dividing it amongst creditors. This is still common in Scotland and does not involve a court order. Normally the bankrupt has to pay a share of his income into the trust for a period of time and he is then discharged which means prior creditors can no longer sue him.
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
They've been misled.
And they'll change their minds when they lose their own job.
As previously noted, most over 65s do not have jobs. They have protected incomes.
I kind of wonder if we unprotect those incomes, which are substantially underwritten by the diminishing pay packets of the next generation, whether the older generation would be quite so sanguine about making financial sacrifices for Brexit.
The old have shafted the young in many ways, not just Brexit and Pensions. But maybe some good will come of it. It may even teach the lazy f*ckers to vote.
Let's get some perspective here: when I was growing up neither I nor my parents had anything like the sorts of luxuries or spending money which so many now seem to take for granted. There is certainly an issue with housing and how to save for pensions and old age is another big issue. These are issues which will need to be addressed for the next generations.
But - at the risk of sounding curmudgeonly - if you want to accumulate savings you have to not spend on the latest gadget and holidays here, there and everywhere and cheap clothes etc. The young have opportunities to spend and enjoy life which have transformed every day life in one generation. What was normal for me growing up in London and Italy not so very long ago would seem like Dickensian-style deprivation to some now.
But spending - however lovely it is - has costs. Twas thus for previous generations and it will be so for future ones as well. No way of squaring that circle and spelling that out, sooner rather than later, is not "shafting" the next generation. It's spelling out some eternal economic verities.
TBF to the younger generation, they might as well spend it as they get it. If they save it some bright spark somewhere will want it taxed to pay off student loans or fund pension black holes.
The easiest way to stop the oldsters getting their hands on it is to spend it now. If I was in my 20s at this point in time, I would probably be no different.
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
They've been misled.
And they'll change their minds when they lose their own job.
As previously noted, most over 65s do not have jobs. They have protected incomes.
I kind of wonder if we unprotect those incomes, which are substantially underwritten by the diminishing pay packets of the next generation, whether the older generation would be quite so sanguine about making financial sacrifices for Brexit.
The old have shafted the young in many ways, not just Brexit and Pensions. But maybe some good will come of it. It may even teach the lazy f*ckers to vote.
Let's get some perspective here: when I was growing up neither I nor my parents had anything like the sorts of luxuries or spending money which so many now seem to take for granted. There is certainly an issue with housing and how to save for pensions and old age is another big issue. These are issues which will need to be addressed for the next generations.
But - at the risk of sounding curmudgeonly - if you want to accumulate savings you have to not spend on the latest gadget and holidays here, there and everywhere and cheap clothes etc. The young have opportunities to spend and enjoy life which have transformed every day life in one generation. What was normal for me growing up in London and Italy not so very long ago would seem like Dickensian-style deprivation to some now.
But spending - however lovely it is - has costs. Twas thus for previous generations and it will be so for future ones as well. No way of squaring that circle and spelling that out, sooner rather than later, is not "shafting" the next generation. It's spelling out some eternal economic verities.
The younger generation no longer seem to want to spend on houses and cars but just on holidays and going out.
Is there any data to back up that assertion?
Holidays and evenings out are (relatively) cheap. Houses and cars (in a world of Uber) are expensive.
I kind of wonder if we unprotect those incomes, which are substantially underwritten by the diminishing pay packets of the next generation, whether the older generation would be quite so sanguine about making financial sacrifices for Brexit.
The old have shafted the young in many ways, not just Brexit and Pensions. But maybe some good will come of it. It may even teach the lazy f*ckers to vote.
Let's get some perspective here: when I was growing up neither I nor my parents had anything like the sorts of luxuries or spending money which so many now seem to take for granted. There is certainly an issue with housing and how to save for pensions and old age is another big issue. These are issues which will need to be addressed for the next generations.
But - at the risk of sounding curmudgeonly - if you want to accumulate savings you have to not spend on the latest gadget and holidays here, there and everywhere and cheap clothes etc. The young have opportunities to spend and enjoy life which have transformed every day life in one generation. What was normal for me growing up in London and Italy not so very long ago would seem like Dickensian-style deprivation to some now.
But spending - however lovely it is - has costs. Twas thus for previous generations and it will be so for future ones as well. No way of squaring that circle and spelling that out, sooner rather than later, is not "shafting" the next generation. It's spelling out some eternal economic verities.
TBF to the younger generation, they might as well spend it as they get it. If they save it some bright spark somewhere will want it taxed to pay off student loans or fund pension black holes.
The easiest way to stop the oldsters getting their hands on it is to spend it now. If I was in my 20s at this point in time, I would probably be no different.
Taxes were also much higher when I was growing up.
People cannot have everything they want. The more you spend on "nice to haves" the less you have available for the "must haves". House prices in London are barmy. But my nephews and nieces outside the South East have jobs and mortgages and babies and all without inheriting a penny. As ever London and the South East does not represent the whole country.
Regardless of which generation we're in, if we want more of one thing (whether public services or pensions or houses or whatever) we're going to have to go without other nice things (walking rather than taxis etc).
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
Lattes are less important than liberty. Who'd have guessed?
Oh, wait....
The EU is on the side of liberty. Freedom of Movement, and of work, capital and trade are all personal liberties the EU protects and Brexiteers want to restrict.
Freedom of trade? Well, it's a view.
Yes. There's not a shadow of doubt Britain will have less trade after Brexit because of freedoms to trade that have been lost.
The EU is incredibly protectionist. Saying it believes in freedom of trade is risible.
The EU is protectionist.
But there's a big but.
Look at the US. It has free trade agreements with Mexico, Canada, Australia, Israel and South Korea. And that's about it.
Or what about China. It has FTAs with South Korea, ASEAN, Pakistan, Australia, and a few others places.
The Mercosur states have about half a dozen FTAs. Likewise the ASEAN ones. India and Japan have about five or six each. Russia has virtually nothing outside its customs union.
The EU, on the other hand, has FTAs with Canada, Mexico, large chunks of LatAm, South Korea, the EFTA states, Turkey, much of North Africa, Israel, South Africa and the Ukraine. It will also soon have an FTA with Japan.
Where the EU is very protectionist is food, and in particular protecting French farmers. But it's hard to argue that it's any worse than any other big trading block.
I kind of wonder if we unprotect those incomes, which are substantially underwritten by the diminishing pay packets of the next generation, whether the older generation would be quite so sanguine about making financial sacrifices for Brexit.
The old have shafted the young in many ways, not just Brexit and Pensions. But maybe some good will come of it. It may even teach the lazy f*ckers to vote.
.
But - at the risk of sounding curmudgeonly - if you want to accumulate savings you have to not spend on the latest gadget and holidays here, there and everywhere and cheap clothes etc. The young have opportunities to spend and enjoy life which have transformed every day life in one generation. What was normal for me growing up in London and Italy not so very long ago would seem like Dickensian-style deprivation to some now.
But spending - however lovely it is - has costs. Twas thus for previous generations and it will be so for future ones as well. No way of squaring that circle and spelling that out, sooner rather than later, is not "shafting" the next generation. It's spelling out some eternal economic verities.
TBF to the younger generation, they might as well spend it as they get it. If they save it some bright spark somewhere will want it taxed to pay off student loans or fund pension black holes.
The easiest way to stop the oldsters getting their hands on it is to spend it now. If I was in my 20s at this point in time, I would probably be no different.
Taxes were also much higher when I was growing up.
People cannot have everything they want. The more you spend on "nice to haves" the less you have available for the "must haves". House prices in London are barmy. But my nephews and nieces outside the South East have jobs and mortgages and babies and all without inheriting a penny. As ever London and the South East does not represent the whole country.
Regardless of which generation we're in, if we want more of one thing (whether public services or pensions or houses or whatever) we're going to have to go without other nice things (walking rather than taxis etc).
London prices were always higher relative to the rest of the country. When I bought my first house [ pretty late in life - age 34 ], the price was astronomical. Now, 27 years later, the value is probably 8 times higher - minimum. When mortgage rates were 15%, almost 50% of disposable income went on that. And you are right, taxes were actually much higher!
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
Lattes are less important than liberty. Who'd have guessed?
Oh, wait....
The EU is on the side of liberty. Freedom of Movement, and of work, capital and trade are all personal liberties the EU protects and Brexiteers want to restrict.
Freedom of trade? Well, it's a view.
Yes. There's not a shadow of doubt Britain will have less trade after Brexit because of freedoms to trade that have been lost.
The EU is incredibly protectionist. Saying it believes in freedom of trade is risible.
By international standards the EU is not especially protectionist and certainly not to its members, which we were and won't be. No other country will make up for our lost trade.
The old have shafted the young in many ways, not just Brexit and Pensions. But maybe some good will come of it. It may even teach the lazy f*ckers to vote.
But spending - however lovely it is - has costs. Twas thus for previous generations and it will be so for future ones as well. No way of squaring that circle and spelling that out, sooner rather than later, is not "shafting" the next generation. It's spelling out some eternal economic verities.
TBF to the younger generation, they might as well spend it as they get it. If they save it some bright spark somewhere will want it taxed to pay off student loans or fund pension black holes.
The easiest way to stop the oldsters getting their hands on it is to spend it now. If I was in my 20s at this point in time, I would probably be no different.
Taxes were also much higher when I was growing up.
People cannot have everything they want. The more you spend on "nice to haves" the less you have available for the "must haves". House prices in London are barmy. But my nephews and nieces outside the South East have jobs and mortgages and babies and all without inheriting a penny. As ever London and the South East does not represent the whole country.
Regardless of which generation we're in, if we want more of one thing (whether public services or pensions or houses or whatever) we're going to have to go without other nice things (walking rather than taxis etc).
I don't think I travelled in a taxi until I was 25 and the company was paying.
Anyone older than that before they travelled in a taxi?
Where the EU is very protectionist is food, and in particular protecting French farmers. But it's hard to argue that it's any worse than any other big trading block.
That hadn't prevented an FTA with Chile or zero tariff and quota partnership agreements with most of Africa.
On topic. As the BES study referred to in the header says, this was a Brexit election. Remove that context and it implies nothing much for the next election. By that time Brexit will be a fait accompli and voting patterns will, I expect, revert to "normal". Labour was perceived to be the party of remain in 2017, perhaps misguidedly so. The applecart was overturned in 2017, but by 2022 all the apples will have been put back in.
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
They've been misled.
And they'll change their minds when they lose their own job.
As previously noted, most over 65s do not have jobs. They have protected incomes.
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But spending - however lovely it is - has costs. Twas thus for previous generations and it will be so for future ones as well. No way of squaring that circle and spelling that out, sooner rather than later, is not "shafting" the next generation. It's spelling out some eternal economic verities.
The younger generation no longer seem to want to spend on houses and cars but just on holidays and going out.
Is there any data to back up that assertion?
Holidays and evenings out are (relatively) cheap. Houses and cars (in a world of Uber) are expensive.
I kind of wonder if we unprotect those incomes, which are substantially underwritten by the diminishing pay packets of the next generation, whether the older generation would be quite so sanguine about making financial sacrifices for Brexit.
The old have shafted the young in many ways, not just Brexit and Pensions. But maybe some good will come of it. It may even teach the lazy f*ckers to vote.
Let's get some perspective here: when I was growing up neither I nor my parents had anything like the sorts of luxuries or spending money which so many now seem to take for
TBF to the younger generation, they might as well spend it as they get it. If they save it some bright spark somewhere will want it taxed to pay off student loans or fund pension black holes.
The easiest way to stop the oldsters getting their hands on it is to spend it now. If I was in my 20s at this point in time, I would probably be no different.
Taxes were also much higher when I was growing up.
People cannot have everything they want. The more you spend on "nice to haves" the less you have available for the "must haves". House prices in London are barmy. But my nephews and nieces outside the South East have jobs and mortgages and babies and all without inheriting a penny. As ever London and the South East does not represent the whole country.
Regardless of which generation we're in, if we want more of one thing (whether public services or pensions or houses or whatever) we're going to have to go without other nice things (walking rather than taxis etc).
I think direct taxes were higher, but the overall taxburden is unchanged because indirect taxes have risen, and large areas of reliefs ended. MIRAS is the obvious one.
The increase in age at first house purchase, and related markers indicates that the young are not financially flourishing, but the elderly are. Sure, standards have risen insome areas, but so has insecurity.
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
Lattes are less important than liberty. Who'd have guessed?
Oh, wait....
The EU is on the side of liberty. Freedom of Movement, and of work, capital and trade are all personal liberties the EU protects and Brexiteers want to restrict.
Freedom of trade? Well, it's a view.
Yes. There's not a shadow of doubt Britain will have less trade after Brexit because of freedoms to trade that have been lost.
The EU is incredibly protectionist. Saying it believes in freedom of trade is risible.
The EU is protectionist.
But there's a big but.
Look at the US. It has free trade agreements with Mexico, Canada, Australia, Israel and South Korea. And that's about it.
Or what about China. It has FTAs with South Korea, ASEAN, Pakistan, Australia, and a few others places.
The Mercosur states have about half a dozen FTAs. Likewise the ASEAN ones. India and Japan have about five or six each. Russia has virtually nothing outside its customs union.
The EU, on the other hand, has FTAs with Canada, Mexico, large chunks of LatAm, South Korea, the EFTA states, Turkey, much of North Africa, Israel, South Africa and the Ukraine. It will also soon have an FTA with Japan.
Where the EU is very protectionist is food, and in particular protecting French farmers. But it's hard to argue that it's any worse than any other big trading block.
This is correct. I would add two points. The key Brexit point is that the EU is completely unprotectionist to its members. That's the freedom of trade we're losing. It's also worth pointing out that our peers going forward, EFTA countries and Japan, are all more protectionist again than the EU on agriculture specifically, as well generally.
I kind of wonder if we unprotect those incomes, which are substantially underwritten by the diminishing pay packets of the next generation, whether the older generation would be quite so sanguine about making financial sacrifices for Brexit.
The old have shafted the young in many ways, not just Brexit and Pensions. But maybe some good will come of it. It may even teach the lazy f*ckers to vote.
Let's get some perspective here: when I was growing up neither I nor my parents had anything like the sorts of luxuries or spending money which so many now seem to take for
TBF to the younger generation, they might as well spend it as they get it. If they save it some bright spark somewhere will want it taxed to pay off student loans or fund pension black holes.
The easiest way to stop the oldsters getting their hands on it is to spend it now. If I was in my 20s at this point in time, I would probably be no different.
Taxes were also much higher when I was growing up.
People cannot have everything they want. The more you spend on "nice to haves" the less you have available for the "must haves". House prices in London are barmy. But my nephews and nieces outside the South East have jobs and mortgages and babies and all without inheriting a penny. As ever London and the South East does not represent the whole country.
Regardless of which generation we're in, if we want more of one thing (whether public services or pensions or houses or whatever) we're going to have to go without other nice things (walking rather than taxis etc).
I think direct taxes were higher, but the overall taxburden is unchanged because indirect taxes have risen, and large areas of reliefs ended. MIRAS is the obvious one.
The increase in age at first house purchase, and related markers indicates that the young are not financially flourishing, but the elderly are. Sure, standards have risen insome areas, but so has insecurity.
Comments
Overall, 48% of voters believe it would be a price worth paying, 28% don't.
'You would make for a great Downing Street Chief of Staff, or Chief Whip, or the head of the IRA's nutting squad'
I think the latter was based on my views about Mark Reckless and his defection therein.
However, it seems that a significant minority of Remain voters would be happy for the economy to suffer should it mean that Brexit were averted. One in three Remain voters (34%), say that “significant damage to the UK economy would be a price worth paying if it meant that Britain stayed in the European Union”. This was only a slightly lower figure than the 38% who thought that averting Brexit at such a cost was too high (the remaining 27% don’t know).
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alastair-crooke/isis-wahhabism-saudi-arabia_b_5717157.html?ncid=engmodushpmg00000003
And they'll change their minds when they lose their own job.
And the remain half of the survey - what does that even mean? Is it a willingness to contemplate the downsides of rejoining after a Brexit disaster or what? It is a counterfactual question.
Oh, wait....
Over 60% of the landlords in our sample were aged 55 or older. (Kath Scanlon and Christine Whitehead, LSE London December 2016).
Do you really think Brexit will stop anybody in this country being pro-European?
Why should automatically I have any more affinity for a fellow Brit than a fellow European? For example, I am much more likely to identify with people from other countries with liberal progressive views than with a reactionary Ukipper who wants a return to a rose-tinted 1950s Britain that never existied anyway!
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/892397427868749824
My trust in the British voter was proved right. More correct than the hundreds of Remain headers we've had before and since the vote.
Of those, prior to 2017 and subsequent to 1900 (and assuming a majority of 3 is not a "working majority", disqualifying 1966), we have:
1974 (F) - 3 years, 8 months - lost
1955 - 3 years, 7 months - won
1931 - 2 years, 5 months - won
1923 - 1 year, 1 month - lost
... so it was a mixed bag at best.
I still think a two-question referendum, with Q2 being along the lines of "if Q1 returns a Yes, should the UK seek membership of EEA/EFTA", would have saved a whole lot of problems. My guess is that Cameron didn't put it on because he thought it would make Q1 more likely to pass. Oops.
I am tipping KEMI BADENOCH, a new Conservative black woman MP as future cabinet material and maybe future PM material.
See her at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQaq-Z569UE
Degrees in engineering and law. Pro Brexit. Essx girl. What's not to like.
Sadly, it all seems to be based on hate.
Or are you classing disagreeing with the status quo as hate now?
Go and look at a graph of GDP per capita since 2007 and you'll see what drives my posting about this.
Most voters were not 'reactionary UKIPers' but decent folk of all political persuasions who were rejecting the status quo. The fact that you think Leave voters to be reactionary belies your bias.
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/6z56phuq56/InternalResults_170421_BrexitExtremism_W.pdf
It doesn't support your assertion.
How many voters would accept National penury in order to have six cockle-gatherers sent home from Southend? Not many. But how many would accept another 100m on the national debt in order to regain full control of our borders? Quite a few, I guess.
If you can't quantify the question, you can't answer it.
Her maiden speech was reportedly good. She could go far, but I know nothing of her politics.
It's the same with Brexit. I voted Remain, but I wouldn't have done so at any price. If the EU has introduced a law effecting the slaughter of first born, I'd have said the cost was too great, despite all the other benefits, and that the value lay on the Leave side.
On balance then you could say I thought the value was with Remain. I could be proved wrong, although I have yet to see any indication that might be so. You could also say that my valuation was something of an estimate, although I would suggest the degree of estimation on the Leave side was perhaps greater, since Remainers were at least living in a remain world at the time of the vote.
All I'm saying then is that without some attempt at evaluating the cost/benefit of a choice, the choice itself is somewhat meaningless.
Statement of the obvious, perhaps, but evidently more obvious to some than others.
"50% of the electorate are below average intelligence."
is pretty much a definition of 'average'.
Still you have to admire Corbyn for managing to scam so many people.
It is the unskilled C2s, Ds and Es voting Conservative.
Conservatives seem to have lost the professional classes to Labour.
Teachers, police, civil servants, local council workers, health profesionals now all voting Labour?
But - at the risk of sounding curmudgeonly - if you want to accumulate savings you have to not spend on the latest gadget and holidays here, there and everywhere and cheap clothes etc. The young have opportunities to spend and enjoy life which have transformed every day life in one generation. What was normal for me growing up in London and Italy not so very long ago would seem like Dickensian-style deprivation to some now.
But spending - however lovely it is - has costs. Twas thus for previous generations and it will be so for future ones as well. No way of squaring that circle and spelling that out, sooner rather than later, is not "shafting" the next generation. It's spelling out some eternal economic verities.
GDP per capita in this country since 2007? It's not a great picture - do I think that's the fault of Europe or the government of this country and its stupid addiction to cost-cutting rather than growth stimulation? The latter, of course!
As I say, we won't agree, but I enjoy hearing the opposite viewpoints - even when their are barmy!
next
if we had been in the Euro the EU would be forcing austerity on us like it did to loads of others only harder since we borrowed more
Wolfgang Schaueble progressive ? Mein Arsch
The effect is larger in London and the south, up here the 'gap' between a renter and a home-owner is alot smaller; which feels inherently healthier.
The easiest way to stop the oldsters getting their hands on it is to spend it now. If I was in my 20s at this point in time, I would probably be no different.
Houses and cars (in a world of Uber) are expensive.
Demand is price elastic shocker.
Grrens looking good imo
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/bundestagswahl/beim-umgang-mit-dem-abgasskandal-herrscht-uneinigkeit-15130696.html
People cannot have everything they want. The more you spend on "nice to haves" the less you have available for the "must haves". House prices in London are barmy. But my nephews and nieces outside the South East have jobs and mortgages and babies and all without inheriting a penny. As ever London and the South East does not represent the whole country.
Regardless of which generation we're in, if we want more of one thing (whether public services or pensions or houses or whatever) we're going to have to go without other nice things (walking rather than taxis etc).
But there's a big but.
Look at the US. It has free trade agreements with Mexico, Canada, Australia, Israel and South Korea. And that's about it.
Or what about China. It has FTAs with South Korea, ASEAN, Pakistan, Australia, and a few others places.
The Mercosur states have about half a dozen FTAs. Likewise the ASEAN ones. India and Japan have about five or six each. Russia has virtually nothing outside its customs union.
The EU, on the other hand, has FTAs with Canada, Mexico, large chunks of LatAm, South Korea, the EFTA states, Turkey, much of North Africa, Israel, South Africa and the Ukraine. It will also soon have an FTA with Japan.
Where the EU is very protectionist is food, and in particular protecting French farmers. But it's hard to argue that it's any worse than any other big trading block.
Anyone older than that before they travelled in a taxi? Greens everywhere are against transportation in general, however powered.
As the BES study referred to in the header says, this was a Brexit election. Remove that context and it implies nothing much for the next election. By that time Brexit will be a fait accompli and voting patterns will, I expect, revert to "normal". Labour was perceived to be the party of remain in 2017, perhaps misguidedly so. The applecart was overturned in 2017, but by 2022 all the apples will have been put back in.
The savings ratio is at You have to save to buy houses and cars.
The Uk savings ratio is lower than when current records started in 1963 . See
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/personal-savings
The increase in age at first house purchase, and related markers indicates that the young are not financially flourishing, but the elderly are. Sure, standards have risen insome areas, but so has insecurity.