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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » London falling – a look at next May’s elections in the capital

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    AllanAllan Posts: 262

    Things can only get bitter, an extraordinary yougov poll:

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/892329988397117440

    Says the guy who has nothing but praise for corbyn and that must go with his economic policies.
    Just look at Corbynite economics at work in Venezuela. Death to capitalism leads to the collapse of the economy.

    A few % drop in the UK economy that remainers and project fear forecasts is minuscule compared to the economic collapse corbyn would bring. Yet supposedly rational leftie's think Brexit is worse.
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,636
    Allan said:

    Things can only get bitter, an extraordinary yougov poll:

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/892329988397117440

    Says the guy who has nothing but praise for corbyn and that must go with his economic policies.
    Just look at Corbynite economics at work in Venezuela. Death to capitalism leads to the collapse of the economy.

    A few % drop in the UK economy that remainers and project fear forecasts is minuscule compared to the economic collapse corbyn would bring. Yet supposedly rational leftie's think Brexit is worse.
    If you believe that a Labour government would turn the UK into Venezuela, your agrument would be irrefutable, and Labour would be decimated in the polls.

    But it's nonsense of course. Keep on believing it though, it will make Tory defeat at the next GE much more likely.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548




    Notably from a family whose fortune was made off the backs of British miners!

    I was unaware of that and can find no reference to it. Could you perhaps expand on that claim?
    'A member of an established Somerset family of coal mine owners’ says Wikipedia, although the item which it quotes as a source is no longer available.
    Some evidence here, see section on Pensford basin in this article on the Somerset coalfield:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somerset_Coalfield

    Further here:

    http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/a6abaa4d-3935-4d6e-93c4-aeaecc46a264

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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300




    Notably from a family whose fortune was made off the backs of British miners!

    I was unaware of that and can find no reference to it. Could you perhaps expand on that claim?
    'A member of an established Somerset family of coal mine owners’ says Wikipedia, although the item which it quotes as a source is no longer available.
    His father's obituaries might be a good place to look.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,975
    Mr. Allan, on that, although ITV did have better reporting than elsewhere on the price cap that never was, there was a fundamental failure to explain why it's a stupid policy.

    If prices rise (for the companies) then a price cap below that level means that lose money selling electricity. At best, that means rationing, at worst, it means the lights go out. If prices fall for the companies, the cap becomes a ceiling, keeping prices artificially high.

    If companies can't/won't sell electricity and are nationalised (a Corbynite approach) then the losses of selling then become borne by the taxpayer. So consumers pay twice, firstly for the electricity, and then for the loss that's made because the price is artificially low.

    The way to improve the system is better competition through improved regulation.

    Of course, thanks to every party from the last three governments being rubbish in this area, we're also facing a serious lack of generation capacity. Progress on battery technology is promising, but we're not there yet, and shutting down coal-fired power stations (and gas, which produces less carbon dioxide if that bothers you) without replacing the lost capacity is not smart.
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    AllanAllan Posts: 262

    Allan said:

    Things can only get bitter, an extraordinary yougov poll:

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/892329988397117440

    Says the guy who has nothing but praise for corbyn and that must go with his economic policies.
    Just look at Corbynite economics at work in Venezuela. Death to capitalism leads to the collapse of the economy.

    A few % drop in the UK economy that remainers and project fear forecasts is minuscule compared to the economic collapse corbyn would bring. Yet supposedly rational leftie's think Brexit is worse.
    If you believe that a Labour government would turn the UK into Venezuela, your agrument would be irrefutable, and Labour would be decimated in the polls.
    But it's nonsense of course. Keep on believing it though, it will make Tory defeat at the next GE much more likely.
    The Venezuelan approach to governing its economy has been much admired by Corbyn, Abbot etc. Have they said the same about the USA or Singapore etc? The answer is No. They admired Venezuela and see it as a model of how to do things. If a Government acts like the Venezuelan ones have over recent years, the outcome is inevitable. People who fail to learn the lessons of history from holidays to socialist east europe are doomed to repeat them.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,480

    F1: Kubica testing today. He completed the cockpit evacuation test yesterday.

    Also, I think there was a distant rumble of thunder and my internet went wonky so if I disappear suddenly, that's why.

    Abducted by demons, Mr. D ?
    What have you done to fear such an eventuality ?
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    We have some upbeat predictions for the UK economy this morning, as the National Institute of Economic and Social Research publishes its latest set of forecasts.

    Economists at the thinktank predict growth will accelerate to 1.9% in 2018 from 1.7% this year. They believe the fall in the value of the pound since the Brexit vote will give that long-awaited boost to exports.

    Because and despite brexit....
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,975
    Mr. B, Satan may have been angered by my comment on him urinating in my kettle in the last F1 blog.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,859
    edited August 2017

    F1: Kubica testing today. He completed the cockpit evacuation test yesterday.

    Also, I think there was a distant rumble of thunder and my internet went wonky so if I disappear suddenly, that's why.

    Awesome to see Kubica back in a current F1 car, really hope the test goes well for him. Would be great if he's fit enough to last the whole day, behind the scenes he's put a lot of effort into getting himself ready despite his disability.

    Sadly, the experiences of Kubica, and more recently Pascal Wherlein, mean that in future we're unlikely to see current F1 drivers being allowed to do anything remotely risky when they're not in the F1 car.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,975
    Mr. Sandpit, they could always go the Raikkonen route (he entered snowmobile races, I think, under the name James Hunt).
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    AllanAllan Posts: 262
    Such brutal truth in this, I assume, invented article.

    The Onion‏Verified account @TheOnion 13h13 hours ago
    "Execute the basics and you’ll be in great shape when I rip away your dreams with one emotionless pen stroke." http://www.theonion.com/blogpost/my-advice-anyone-starting-business-remember-someda-56539
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    AllanAllan Posts: 262
    edited August 2017

    We have some upbeat predictions for the UK economy this morning, as the National Institute of Economic and Social Research publishes its latest set of forecasts.
    Economists at the thinktank predict growth will accelerate to 1.9% in 2018 from 1.7% this year. They believe the fall in the value of the pound since the Brexit vote will give that long-awaited boost to exports.
    Because and despite brexit....

    Has Porter moved on from the NIESR, so we now get some sense?
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,480

    Sean_F said:

    Allan said:

    Things can only get bitter, an extraordinary yougov poll:

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/892329988397117440

    Says the guy who has nothing but praise for corbyn and that must go with his economic policies.
    "I want a workers Brexit, not a Bosses Brexit. "
    We would have a workers Brexit if unskilled EU migration is radically cut back. It is the Bosses of the unskilled that would be unhappy.
    I think that just one component, of a "workers Brexit". A bonfire of regulation and worker protections in some Hannanite Chlorine soaked fantasy is not what I want.
    I want Brexit to lead to the repeal of the Mines and Factories Act, 1842.
    I am sure that you jest (not least because we have few mines or factories employing the workers nowadays!) but certainly that is the view of at least one prominent potential Tory leader:

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-safety-standards-workers-rights-jacob-rees-mogg-a7459336.html?amp

    Notably from a family whose fortune was made off the backs of British miners!
    I thought they were Somerset farmers; are you perhaps confusing them with the Ridleys ?
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    We have some upbeat predictions for the UK economy this morning, as the National Institute of Economic and Social Research publishes its latest set of forecasts.

    Economists at the thinktank predict growth will accelerate to 1.9% in 2018 from 1.7% this year. They believe the fall in the value of the pound since the Brexit vote will give that long-awaited boost to exports.

    Because and despite brexit....

    Presumably to get to 1. 7% for the year after 0.6% first half, there will be a major surge in the second half of the year, perhaps greater than 0.5% for each quarter. l am not sure that I would bet on that happening.
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    freetochoosefreetochoose Posts: 1,107

    Sean_F said:

    Allan said:

    Things can only get bitter, an extraordinary yougov poll:

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/892329988397117440

    Says the guy who has nothing but praise for corbyn and that must go with his economic policies.
    "I want a workers Brexit, not a Bosses Brexit. "
    We would have a workers Brexit if unskilled EU migration is radically cut back. It is the Bosses of the unskilled that would be unhappy.
    I think that just one component, of a "workers Brexit". A bonfire of regulation and worker protections in some Hannanite Chlorine soaked fantasy is not what I want.
    I want Brexit to lead to the repeal of the Mines and Factories Act, 1842.
    I am sure that you jest (not least because we have few mines or factories employing the workers nowadays!) but certainly that is the view of at least one prominent potential Tory leader:

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-safety-standards-workers-rights-jacob-rees-mogg-a7459336.html?amp

    Notably from a family whose fortune was made off the backs of British miners!
    Well done the Rees Moggs for providing employment to local people
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,937
    Sandpit said:

    F1: Kubica testing today. He completed the cockpit evacuation test yesterday.

    Also, I think there was a distant rumble of thunder and my internet went wonky so if I disappear suddenly, that's why.

    Awesome to see Kubica back in a current F1 car, really hope the test goes well for him. Would be great if he's fit enough to last the whole day, behind the scenes he's put a lot of effort into getting himself ready despite his disability.

    Sadly, the experiences of Kubica, and more recently Pascal Wherlein, mean that in future we're unlikely to see current F1 drivers being allowed to do anything remotely risky when they're not in the F1 car.
    Mark Webber's broken ?leg? during his Tasmanian Challenge ten or so yeas ago could have proved career ending, if not fatal. He was fortunate it happened immediately after the season, meaning he had time to recover for the next season. If it had happened mid-season he'd have missed many races (Schuey missed many in 1999 after breaking his leg), and any replacement might have ended up being permanent.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,975
    Mr. Jessop, some take the view that the recovery cost him the title (it was a close year).
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,937
    Off-topic:

    I came across this little gem of a website the other day. Find your location and see how the inexorable rise of the sea will affect you!
    http://flood.firetree.net/

    It turns out that, at 60 metres rise, I'll have a nice seaside property on the Isle of Cambourne ...

    Oh, and the London arguments on here will have sunk without trace ... ;)
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    Off-topic:

    I came across this little gem of a website the other day. Find your location and see how the inexorable rise of the sea will affect you!
    http://flood.firetree.net/

    It turns out that, at 60 metres rise, I'll have a nice seaside property on the Isle of Cambourne ...

    Oh, and the London arguments on here will have sunk without trace ... ;)

    Brussels disappears too

    you really shouldnt throw out Brexiteer bait :-)
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,859

    Mr. Sandpit, they could always go the Raikkonen route (he entered snowmobile races, I think, under the name James Hunt).

    LOL, I didn't know that, good story. Although I doubt his team would have seen the funny side if he'd ended up injured.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,937

    Off-topic:

    I came across this little gem of a website the other day. Find your location and see how the inexorable rise of the sea will affect you!
    http://flood.firetree.net/

    It turns out that, at 60 metres rise, I'll have a nice seaside property on the Isle of Cambourne ...

    Oh, and the London arguments on here will have sunk without trace ... ;)

    Brussels disappears too

    you really shouldnt throw out Brexiteer bait :-)
    The final victory of the Uplanders against the Lowlanders!

    (With the Highlanders fighting against everyone as usual)
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    We have some upbeat predictions for the UK economy this morning, as the National Institute of Economic and Social Research publishes its latest set of forecasts.

    Economists at the thinktank predict growth will accelerate to 1.9% in 2018 from 1.7% this year. They believe the fall in the value of the pound since the Brexit vote will give that long-awaited boost to exports.

    Because and despite brexit....

    Presumably to get to 1. 7% for the year after 0.6% first half, there will be a major surge in the second half of the year, perhaps greater than 0.5% for each quarter. l am not sure that I would bet on that happening.
    I think 2018 will be a downturn year, it's ten years since the last one so its due
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,964
    As the product of several generations (until my father) of coalminers the very idea of my country being led by the scion of mine-owners is anathema
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,859

    Sandpit said:

    F1: Kubica testing today. He completed the cockpit evacuation test yesterday.

    Also, I think there was a distant rumble of thunder and my internet went wonky so if I disappear suddenly, that's why.

    Awesome to see Kubica back in a current F1 car, really hope the test goes well for him. Would be great if he's fit enough to last the whole day, behind the scenes he's put a lot of effort into getting himself ready despite his disability.

    Sadly, the experiences of Kubica, and more recently Pascal Wherlein, mean that in future we're unlikely to see current F1 drivers being allowed to do anything remotely risky when they're not in the F1 car.
    Mark Webber's broken ?leg? during his Tasmanian Challenge ten or so yeas ago could have proved career ending, if not fatal. He was fortunate it happened immediately after the season, meaning he had time to recover for the next season. If it had happened mid-season he'd have missed many races (Schuey missed many in 1999 after breaking his leg), and any replacement might have ended up being permanent.
    Had forgotten about Webber, but yes that's another example.

    I was at Silverstone the day Schuey broke his leg. You could have heard the cheering crowd from Milton Keynes when went off and he hit the wall - and it didn't calm down much when we realised he was injured!
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    Off-topic:

    I came across this little gem of a website the other day. Find your location and see how the inexorable rise of the sea will affect you!
    http://flood.firetree.net/

    It turns out that, at 60 metres rise, I'll have a nice seaside property on the Isle of Cambourne ...

    Oh, and the London arguments on here will have sunk without trace ... ;)

    If we go back in time to the Ice Age, the North Sea was dry land!

    The Persian Gulf was also dry land, and the SE Asian landmass extended to Borneo, Sumatra and Java.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,964

    Off-topic:

    I came across this little gem of a website the other day. Find your location and see how the inexorable rise of the sea will affect you!
    http://flood.firetree.net/

    It turns out that, at 60 metres rise, I'll have a nice seaside property on the Isle of Cambourne ...

    Oh, and the London arguments on here will have sunk without trace ... ;)

    There’s a silver lining though;much of East Yorkshire goes, too!
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,975
    King Cole, God will protect his Own County.
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    freetochoosefreetochoose Posts: 1,107

    As the product of several generations (until my father) of coalminers the very idea of my country being led by the scion of mine-owners is anathema

    Call me a pedant but several generations? I think I read you're a relatively elderly gentleman, when did your family begin working coal mines?

    My great grandfather, grandfather and uncles were miners, the ones in Kent didn't open until early last century.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,937

    As the product of several generations (until my father) of coalminers the very idea of my country being led by the scion of mine-owners is anathema

    I find that a rather interesting viewpoint. A child is not responsible for the occupations of his forefathers, nor for how his family got or squandered money. What we need to do is look at taking the best we can, regardless of background.
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    Sean_F said:

    TonyE said:

    CD13 said:

    Mr Meeks,

    In the civilised parts of the UK, Londoners are regarded as the epitome of sloth and indulgence, unworthy of pity because they bring it on themselves. House prices are ludicrous, beer prices daft, and living conditions Dickensian. Yet the media believe London is the UK.

    That's why the term ....' The metropolitan elite' is so toxic.

    I've defended you. Many up here say you're not fit to live in a pig sty. I say you are.

    But there's hope for you all. I believe that at heart, you're good people deluded by your surroundings.

    London is a city with many problems. They are the problems of a successful world city.

    The rest of Britain is a country with many problems. They are the problems of a country in long term decline with no understanding of how or even wish to turn that around.
    'World City'. Yes - that is the problem. It tries to pretend it represents Britain, but really it represents itself and only itself. The fact that our politicians and media are based there tend to lend weight to the feeling that they don't represent the rest of us very well either.
    It's the only bit of Britain that is equipped for the 21st century. The rest simultaneously sponges off it and complains about it.
    The rest of Britain saves London from itself. If we all voted the same way as London, Corbyn would enjoy a 200 seat majority, and where would the City be then?
    It's not obvious that the Conservatives' headbanger Brexit will be better for the City than a ramshackle Labour government stuffed with Remain-supporting Labour MPs would have been. Both prospects were and are grim.
    Bloody REMOANERs, stealing our headbangery!
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    freetochoosefreetochoose Posts: 1,107

    Off-topic:

    I came across this little gem of a website the other day. Find your location and see how the inexorable rise of the sea will affect you!
    http://flood.firetree.net/

    It turns out that, at 60 metres rise, I'll have a nice seaside property on the Isle of Cambourne ...

    Oh, and the London arguments on here will have sunk without trace ... ;)

    Swings and roundabouts, at Rye in East Sussex they've recently built a golf course on land reclaimed from the sea.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,937

    Off-topic:

    I came across this little gem of a website the other day. Find your location and see how the inexorable rise of the sea will affect you!
    http://flood.firetree.net/

    It turns out that, at 60 metres rise, I'll have a nice seaside property on the Isle of Cambourne ...

    Oh, and the London arguments on here will have sunk without trace ... ;)

    If we go back in time to the Ice Age, the North Sea was dry land!

    The Persian Gulf was also dry land, and the SE Asian landmass extended to Borneo, Sumatra and Java.
    Yes, so?

    You also need to factor in where the ice caps were when those areas were dry land. The answer might not necessarily be to our advantage.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,975
    Mr. Jessop, I must agree. My ancestors likely include Vikings, and definitely include Saxons and Celts. Should I feel guilty at myself for extorting Danegeld, ashamed for paying it, smug at besting the Celts, bitter at being bested by Saxons etc?

    Not only that, if we're holding onto grievances from generations back that's an argument for seriously disliking the Germans.
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    Off-topic:

    I came across this little gem of a website the other day. Find your location and see how the inexorable rise of the sea will affect you!
    http://flood.firetree.net/

    It turns out that, at 60 metres rise, I'll have a nice seaside property on the Isle of Cambourne ...

    Oh, and the London arguments on here will have sunk without trace ... ;)

    If we go back in time to the Ice Age, the North Sea was dry land!

    The Persian Gulf was also dry land, and the SE Asian landmass extended to Borneo, Sumatra and Java.
    Yes, so?

    You also need to factor in where the ice caps were when those areas were dry land. The answer might not necessarily be to our advantage.
    I'm just imagining if we could go back in time.

    I'm sure the Sunda Shelf and Persian Gulf would still have been fairly warm despite the drop in temperature :)

    (but seriously, the southern half of the North Sea would have just escaped the advance of the Ice Caps)

    Also let's not forget Beringia, linking Alaska and Siberia.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,937

    Off-topic:

    I came across this little gem of a website the other day. Find your location and see how the inexorable rise of the sea will affect you!
    http://flood.firetree.net/

    It turns out that, at 60 metres rise, I'll have a nice seaside property on the Isle of Cambourne ...

    Oh, and the London arguments on here will have sunk without trace ... ;)

    Swings and roundabouts, at Rye in East Sussex they've recently built a golf course on land reclaimed from the sea.
    I bet we're losing much more land than we're gaining atm!

    I have a picture from east Lincolnshire on my coastal walk. It was autumn, and I was walking along the edge of a newly-harvested field, the stubble ending at the very top of the cliffs. In a few months since harvesting, an appreciable area had been claimed to the sea.

    Happisburgh is another area where the differences can be seen year-on-year. Where I walked in 1999 is now well down on the beach.

    http://www.bgs.ac.uk/landslides/Happisburgh.html
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,709

    Off-topic:

    I came across this little gem of a website the other day. Find your location and see how the inexorable rise of the sea will affect you!
    http://flood.firetree.net/

    It turns out that, at 60 metres rise, I'll have a nice seaside property on the Isle of Cambourne ...

    Oh, and the London arguments on here will have sunk without trace ... ;)

    Swings and roundabouts, at Rye in East Sussex they've recently built a golf course on land reclaimed from the sea.
    Did you think before you posted that?
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,797

    On topic, more hubris from Boris Johnson's economic guru:

    https://twitter.com/davidyelland/status/892649521536172032

    I take it David Yelland wanted to REMAIN? ;)
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    freetochoosefreetochoose Posts: 1,107

    Off-topic:

    I came across this little gem of a website the other day. Find your location and see how the inexorable rise of the sea will affect you!
    http://flood.firetree.net/

    It turns out that, at 60 metres rise, I'll have a nice seaside property on the Isle of Cambourne ...

    Oh, and the London arguments on here will have sunk without trace ... ;)

    Swings and roundabouts, at Rye in East Sussex they've recently built a golf course on land reclaimed from the sea.
    Did you think before you posted that?
    Nothing to think about I simply made a factual statement
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    Off-topic:

    I came across this little gem of a website the other day. Find your location and see how the inexorable rise of the sea will affect you!
    http://flood.firetree.net/

    It turns out that, at 60 metres rise, I'll have a nice seaside property on the Isle of Cambourne ...

    Oh, and the London arguments on here will have sunk without trace ... ;)

    Swings and roundabouts, at Rye in East Sussex they've recently built a golf course on land reclaimed from the sea.
    I bet we're losing much more land than we're gaining atm!

    I have a picture from east Lincolnshire on my coastal walk. It was autumn, and I was walking along the edge of a newly-harvested field, the stubble ending at the very top of the cliffs. In a few months since harvesting, an appreciable area had been claimed to the sea.

    Happisburgh is another area where the differences can be seen year-on-year. Where I walked in 1999 is now well down on the beach.

    http://www.bgs.ac.uk/landslides/Happisburgh.html
    The point being that certainly around Happisburgh we have been losing land since the Bronze Age at least. It is a combination of isostatic readjustment following the removal of the ice sheets across northern Britain and the nature of the soft sediments that make up the coastline.

    A good example of this can be seen at Dunwich

    http://www.atlasobscura.com/places/lost-town-dunwich
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,937

    Off-topic:

    I came across this little gem of a website the other day. Find your location and see how the inexorable rise of the sea will affect you!
    http://flood.firetree.net/

    It turns out that, at 60 metres rise, I'll have a nice seaside property on the Isle of Cambourne ...

    Oh, and the London arguments on here will have sunk without trace ... ;)

    If we go back in time to the Ice Age, the North Sea was dry land!

    The Persian Gulf was also dry land, and the SE Asian landmass extended to Borneo, Sumatra and Java.
    Yes, so?

    You also need to factor in where the ice caps were when those areas were dry land. The answer might not necessarily be to our advantage.
    I'm just imagining if we could go back in time.
    (Snip)
    (but seriously, the southern half of the North Sea would have just escaped the advance of the Ice Caps)

    (Snip)
    Which is fine unless you live north of the southern Midlands! ;)
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,964

    As the product of several generations (until my father) of coalminers the very idea of my country being led by the scion of mine-owners is anathema

    Call me a pedant but several generations? I think I read you're a relatively elderly gentleman, when did your family begin working coal mines?

    My great grandfather, grandfather and uncles were miners, the ones in Kent didn't open until early last century.
    In early 1800’s; in one at least one branch of my ancestors. All in South Wales.
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    Off-topic:

    I came across this little gem of a website the other day. Find your location and see how the inexorable rise of the sea will affect you!
    http://flood.firetree.net/

    It turns out that, at 60 metres rise, I'll have a nice seaside property on the Isle of Cambourne ...

    Oh, and the London arguments on here will have sunk without trace ... ;)

    If we go back in time to the Ice Age, the North Sea was dry land!

    The Persian Gulf was also dry land, and the SE Asian landmass extended to Borneo, Sumatra and Java.
    Yes, so?

    You also need to factor in where the ice caps were when those areas were dry land. The answer might not necessarily be to our advantage.
    I'm just imagining if we could go back in time.
    (Snip)
    (but seriously, the southern half of the North Sea would have just escaped the advance of the Ice Caps)

    (Snip)
    Which is fine unless you live north of the southern Midlands! ;)
    You could move to the extra land available in the North Sea :)
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    freetochoosefreetochoose Posts: 1,107

    As the product of several generations (until my father) of coalminers the very idea of my country being led by the scion of mine-owners is anathema

    Call me a pedant but several generations? I think I read you're a relatively elderly gentleman, when did your family begin working coal mines?

    My great grandfather, grandfather and uncles were miners, the ones in Kent didn't open until early last century.
    In early 1800’s; in one at least one branch of my ancestors. All in South Wales.
    Blimey, I dread to think what the conditions must have been like back then.
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    As the product of several generations (until my father) of coalminers the very idea of my country being led by the scion of mine-owners is anathema

    Given that the Rees-Moggs have apparently not been involved in Coal mining for something like a century and a half I would suggest calling him a scion of mine-owners is at best a pretty poor smear.

    There are lots of reasons for not wanting him as PM. The activities of his 19th century ancestors does not strike me as being high on that list.
  • Options
    TonyETonyE Posts: 938
    GIN1138 said:

    On topic, more hubris from Boris Johnson's economic guru:

    https://twitter.com/davidyelland/status/892649521536172032

    I take it David Yelland wanted to REMAIN? ;)
    It's not Brexit Proof - but it will remain the largest financial centre, and the movement of money into the capital markets will be untrammelled by Brexit itself. There is often a confusion between London's main strength, the money market for investment, and the more mundane 'retail' stuff for which 'Passporting' has more relevance.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Off-topic:

    I came across this little gem of a website the other day. Find your location and see how the inexorable rise of the sea will affect you!
    http://flood.firetree.net/

    It turns out that, at 60 metres rise, I'll have a nice seaside property on the Isle of Cambourne ...

    Oh, and the London arguments on here will have sunk without trace ... ;)

    Swings and roundabouts, at Rye in East Sussex they've recently built a golf course on land reclaimed from the sea.
    I bet we're losing much more land than we're gaining atm!

    I have a picture from east Lincolnshire on my coastal walk. It was autumn, and I was walking along the edge of a newly-harvested field, the stubble ending at the very top of the cliffs. In a few months since harvesting, an appreciable area had been claimed to the sea.

    Happisburgh is another area where the differences can be seen year-on-year. Where I walked in 1999 is now well down on the beach.

    http://www.bgs.ac.uk/landslides/Happisburgh.html
    The point being that certainly around Happisburgh we have been losing land since the Bronze Age at least. It is a combination of isostatic readjustment following the removal of the ice sheets across northern Britain and the nature of the soft sediments that make up the coastline.

    A good example of this can be seen at Dunwich

    http://www.atlasobscura.com/places/lost-town-dunwich
    On the other hand the beach at Holkolm in North Norfolk has got significantly bigger, I think the erosion of NE Norfolk moves to NW Norfolk. Plenty of historical floods there including the big one in the late 40's.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,964

    As the product of several generations (until my father) of coalminers the very idea of my country being led by the scion of mine-owners is anathema

    I find that a rather interesting viewpoint. A child is not responsible for the occupations of his forefathers, nor for how his family got or squandered money. What we need to do is look at taking the best we can, regardless of background.

    'You’ve got be taught, before it’s too late, before you are six or seven or eight, to hate all the people your relatives hate.'

    South Pacific.

    I’ve got rid of most of the prejudices, but this one lingers.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,910
    I'd have to change my route into work if the sea rose 60 metres, but I'd be otherwise unaffected.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,937

    Off-topic:

    I came across this little gem of a website the other day. Find your location and see how the inexorable rise of the sea will affect you!
    http://flood.firetree.net/

    It turns out that, at 60 metres rise, I'll have a nice seaside property on the Isle of Cambourne ...

    Oh, and the London arguments on here will have sunk without trace ... ;)

    Swings and roundabouts, at Rye in East Sussex they've recently built a golf course on land reclaimed from the sea.
    I bet we're losing much more land than we're gaining atm!

    I have a picture from east Lincolnshire on my coastal walk. It was autumn, and I was walking along the edge of a newly-harvested field, the stubble ending at the very top of the cliffs. In a few months since harvesting, an appreciable area had been claimed to the sea.

    Happisburgh is another area where the differences can be seen year-on-year. Where I walked in 1999 is now well down on the beach.

    http://www.bgs.ac.uk/landslides/Happisburgh.html
    The point being that certainly around Happisburgh we have been losing land since the Bronze Age at least. It is a combination of isostatic readjustment following the removal of the ice sheets across northern Britain and the nature of the soft sediments that make up the coastline.

    A good example of this can be seen at Dunwich

    http://www.atlasobscura.com/places/lost-town-dunwich
    I love Dunwich, it's a place I return to time and time again (although sadly not recently). There's something about the place that just fires up my imagination, especially the paths through the trees past the friary ruins. There's a little bridge that a path runs under, and it is all so magnificently overgrown that I cannot help but pause and try to listen for the church bells.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,937

    Off-topic:

    I came across this little gem of a website the other day. Find your location and see how the inexorable rise of the sea will affect you!
    http://flood.firetree.net/

    It turns out that, at 60 metres rise, I'll have a nice seaside property on the Isle of Cambourne ...

    Oh, and the London arguments on here will have sunk without trace ... ;)

    If we go back in time to the Ice Age, the North Sea was dry land!

    The Persian Gulf was also dry land, and the SE Asian landmass extended to Borneo, Sumatra and Java.
    Yes, so?

    You also need to factor in where the ice caps were when those areas were dry land. The answer might not necessarily be to our advantage.
    I'm just imagining if we could go back in time.
    (Snip)
    (but seriously, the southern half of the North Sea would have just escaped the advance of the Ice Caps)

    (Snip)
    Which is fine unless you live north of the southern Midlands! ;)
    You could move to the extra land available in the North Sea :)
    Get on your bike! ;)
  • Options

    Off-topic:

    I came across this little gem of a website the other day. Find your location and see how the inexorable rise of the sea will affect you!
    http://flood.firetree.net/

    It turns out that, at 60 metres rise, I'll have a nice seaside property on the Isle of Cambourne ...

    Oh, and the London arguments on here will have sunk without trace ... ;)

    Swings and roundabouts, at Rye in East Sussex they've recently built a golf course on land reclaimed from the sea.
    I bet we're losing much more land than we're gaining atm!

    I have a picture from east Lincolnshire on my coastal walk. It was autumn, and I was walking along the edge of a newly-harvested field, the stubble ending at the very top of the cliffs. In a few months since harvesting, an appreciable area had been claimed to the sea.

    Happisburgh is another area where the differences can be seen year-on-year. Where I walked in 1999 is now well down on the beach.

    http://www.bgs.ac.uk/landslides/Happisburgh.html
    The point being that certainly around Happisburgh we have been losing land since the Bronze Age at least. It is a combination of isostatic readjustment following the removal of the ice sheets across northern Britain and the nature of the soft sediments that make up the coastline.

    A good example of this can be seen at Dunwich

    http://www.atlasobscura.com/places/lost-town-dunwich
    On the other hand the beach at Holkolm in North Norfolk has got significantly bigger, I think the erosion of NE Norfolk moves to NW Norfolk. Plenty of historical floods there including the big one in the late 40's.
    Holkolm is still sinking though. The whole of Britain south of a line roughly through Yorkshire/Black Country is sinking whilst everything to the North of that line is rising.
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    On topic, superb analysis from Stodge
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,952
    Lancashire is expanding. Yorkshire falling into the sea. All is well.
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    dixiedean said:

    Lancashire is expanding. Yorkshire falling into the sea. All is well.

    You just didn't diss Yorkshire in my presence did you?
  • Options

    Off-topic:

    I came across this little gem of a website the other day. Find your location and see how the inexorable rise of the sea will affect you!
    http://flood.firetree.net/

    It turns out that, at 60 metres rise, I'll have a nice seaside property on the Isle of Cambourne ...

    Oh, and the London arguments on here will have sunk without trace ... ;)

    Swings and roundabouts, at Rye in East Sussex they've recently built a golf course on land reclaimed from the sea.
    I bet we're losing much more land than we're gaining atm!

    I have a picture from east Lincolnshire on my coastal walk. It was autumn, and I was walking along the edge of a newly-harvested field, the stubble ending at the very top of the cliffs. In a few months since harvesting, an appreciable area had been claimed to the sea.

    Happisburgh is another area where the differences can be seen year-on-year. Where I walked in 1999 is now well down on the beach.

    http://www.bgs.ac.uk/landslides/Happisburgh.html
    The point being that certainly around Happisburgh we have been losing land since the Bronze Age at least. It is a combination of isostatic readjustment following the removal of the ice sheets across northern Britain and the nature of the soft sediments that make up the coastline.

    A good example of this can be seen at Dunwich

    http://www.atlasobscura.com/places/lost-town-dunwich
    I love Dunwich, it's a place I return to time and time again (although sadly not recently). There's something about the place that just fires up my imagination, especially the paths through the trees past the friary ruins. There's a little bridge that a path runs under, and it is all so magnificently overgrown that I cannot help but pause and try to listen for the church bells.
    Yep it is a brilliant place. Form an archaeological point of view I find it sad that so much of a major English medieval town has been lost but it still draws me back time and time again.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,937

    Off-topic:

    I came across this little gem of a website the other day. Find your location and see how the inexorable rise of the sea will affect you!
    http://flood.firetree.net/

    It turns out that, at 60 metres rise, I'll have a nice seaside property on the Isle of Cambourne ...

    Oh, and the London arguments on here will have sunk without trace ... ;)

    Swings and roundabouts, at Rye in East Sussex they've recently built a golf course on land reclaimed from the sea.
    I bet we're losing much more land than we're gaining atm!

    I have a picture from east Lincolnshire on my coastal walk. It was autumn, and I was walking along the edge of a newly-harvested field, the stubble ending at the very top of the cliffs. In a few months since harvesting, an appreciable area had been claimed to the sea.

    Happisburgh is another area where the differences can be seen year-on-year. Where I walked in 1999 is now well down on the beach.

    http://www.bgs.ac.uk/landslides/Happisburgh.html
    The point being that certainly around Happisburgh we have been losing land since the Bronze Age at least. It is a combination of isostatic readjustment following the removal of the ice sheets across northern Britain and the nature of the soft sediments that make up the coastline.

    A good example of this can be seen at Dunwich

    http://www.atlasobscura.com/places/lost-town-dunwich
    On the other hand the beach at Holkolm in North Norfolk has got significantly bigger, I think the erosion of NE Norfolk moves to NW Norfolk. Plenty of historical floods there including the big one in the late 40's.
    Holkolm is still sinking though. The whole of Britain south of a line roughly through Yorkshire/Black Country is sinking whilst everything to the North of that line is rising.
    I don't know if you saw it, but when this was last discussed a few months ago I mentioned a little story. I listen to a history podcast, and in it the American narrator opined that the Battle of Hastings occurred on a hill because the sea levels in the area had fallen since then...

    He's usually a good guy, so it was a brilliantly uncharacteristic gaff.
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    I work in Manchester, to be honest I'm not worried about rising sea levels.
  • Options

    Off-topic:

    I came across this little gem of a website the other day. Find your location and see how the inexorable rise of the sea will affect you!
    http://flood.firetree.net/

    It turns out that, at 60 metres rise, I'll have a nice seaside property on the Isle of Cambourne ...

    Oh, and the London arguments on here will have sunk without trace ... ;)

    If we go back in time to the Ice Age, the North Sea was dry land!

    The Persian Gulf was also dry land, and the SE Asian landmass extended to Borneo, Sumatra and Java.
    Yes, so?

    You also need to factor in where the ice caps were when those areas were dry land. The answer might not necessarily be to our advantage.
    I'm just imagining if we could go back in time.
    (Snip)
    (but seriously, the southern half of the North Sea would have just escaped the advance of the Ice Caps)

    (Snip)
    Which is fine unless you live north of the southern Midlands! ;)
    You could move to the extra land available in the North Sea :)
    Get on your bike! ;)
    Or emigrate to the Sunda Shelf - much warmer :)

    https://grahamhancock.com/drsunilatlantis/
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,910

    I work in Manchester, to be honest I'm not worried about rising sea levels.

    The northern quarter becomes the seafront at 50 metre rise.
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,952

    dixiedean said:

    Lancashire is expanding. Yorkshire falling into the sea. All is well.

    You just didn't diss Yorkshire in my presence did you?
    Merely a statement of fact.
  • Options
    Must have been a PBer (but not me!).
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    It seems incredible that in the two years since the 2015 GE, Putney has become a marginal seat, with its Tory majority declining from over 10,000 then to just over 1,500 now.
    Didn't it occur to the likes of Justine Greening during the May 2017 campaign that she was in grave danger of losing her seat?
    Cabinet Minister or nor, she will need to put in a great deal more effort into her constituency work, where in my experience she has been virtually invisible, if she is to survive the next General Election.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,975
    F1: difficult to draw many conclusions from testing, but at first glance Kubica appears competitive.

    There's a rumour Palmer's being offered a pay off to vacate the seat early.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,280
    edited August 2017
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,245
    edited August 2017

    It seems incredible that in the two years since the 2015 GE, Putney has become a marginal seat, with its Tory majority declining from over 10,000 then to just over 1,500 now.
    Didn't it occur to the likes of Justine Greening during the May 2017 campaign that she was in grave danger of losing her seat?
    Cabinet Minister or nor, she will need to put in a great deal more effort into her constituency work, where in my experience she has been virtually invisible, if she is to survive the next General Election.

    Ilford North went from a Tory majority of 5,404 in 2010 to a Labour majority of 9,639 in 2017.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,859
    TOPPING said:
    And Guido's running with it too. One more P45 coming up at Telegraph Towers.
    https://order-order.com/2017/08/02/telegraph-wrongly-reports-death-duke-edinburgh/
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Off-topic:

    I came across this little gem of a website the other day. Find your location and see how the inexorable rise of the sea will affect you!
    http://flood.firetree.net/

    It turns out that, at 60 metres rise, I'll have a nice seaside property on the Isle of Cambourne ...

    Oh, and the London arguments on here will have sunk without trace ... ;)

    Swings and roundabouts, at Rye in East Sussex they've recently built a golf course on land reclaimed from the sea.
    I bet we're losing much more land than we're gaining atm!

    I have a picture from east Lincolnshire on my coastal walk. It was autumn, and I was walking along the edge of a newly-harvested field, the stubble ending at the very top of the cliffs. In a few months since harvesting, an appreciable area had been claimed to the sea.

    Happisburgh is another area where the differences can be seen year-on-year. Where I walked in 1999 is now well down on the beach.

    http://www.bgs.ac.uk/landslides/Happisburgh.html
    The point being that certainly around Happisburgh we have been losing land since the Bronze Age at least. It is a combination of isostatic readjustment following the removal of the ice sheets across northern Britain and the nature of the soft sediments that make up the coastline.

    A good example of this can be seen at Dunwich

    http://www.atlasobscura.com/places/lost-town-dunwich
    On the other hand the beach at Holkolm in North Norfolk has got significantly bigger, I think the erosion of NE Norfolk moves to NW Norfolk. Plenty of historical floods there including the big one in the late 40's.
    Holkolm is still sinking though. The whole of Britain south of a line roughly through Yorkshire/Black Country is sinking whilst everything to the North of that line is rising.
    Yes, but I think the beach benefits from long shore drift from the East. It is one of my favourite beaches, particularly the Burnham end, albeit so flat that a long walk to the sea.
  • Options

    Off-topic:

    I came across this little gem of a website the other day. Find your location and see how the inexorable rise of the sea will affect you!
    http://flood.firetree.net/

    It turns out that, at 60 metres rise, I'll have a nice seaside property on the Isle of Cambourne ...

    Oh, and the London arguments on here will have sunk without trace ... ;)

    Swings and roundabouts, at Rye in East Sussex they've recently built a golf course on land reclaimed from the sea.
    I bet we're losing much more land than we're gaining atm!

    I have a picture from east Lincolnshire on my coastal walk. It was autumn, and I was walking along the edge of a newly-harvested field, the stubble ending at the very top of the cliffs. In a few months since harvesting, an appreciable area had been claimed to the sea.

    Happisburgh is another area where the differences can be seen year-on-year. Where I walked in 1999 is now well down on the beach.

    http://www.bgs.ac.uk/landslides/Happisburgh.html
    The point being that certainly around Happisburgh we have been losing land since the Bronze Age at least. It is a combination of isostatic readjustment following the removal of the ice sheets across northern Britain and the nature of the soft sediments that make up the coastline.

    A good example of this can be seen at Dunwich

    http://www.atlasobscura.com/places/lost-town-dunwich
    On the other hand the beach at Holkolm in North Norfolk has got significantly bigger, I think the erosion of NE Norfolk moves to NW Norfolk. Plenty of historical floods there including the big one in the late 40's.
    Holkolm is still sinking though. The whole of Britain south of a line roughly through Yorkshire/Black Country is sinking whilst everything to the North of that line is rising.
    I don't know if you saw it, but when this was last discussed a few months ago I mentioned a little story. I listen to a history podcast, and in it the American narrator opined that the Battle of Hastings occurred on a hill because the sea levels in the area had fallen since then...

    He's usually a good guy, so it was a brilliantly uncharacteristic gaff.
    I missed that. Not sure what more to add :)
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,636

    Sean_F said:

    Allan said:

    Things can only get bitter, an extraordinary yougov poll:

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/892329988397117440

    Says the guy who has nothing but praise for corbyn and that must go with his economic policies.
    "I want a workers Brexit, not a Bosses Brexit. "
    We would have a workers Brexit if unskilled EU migration is radically cut back. It is the Bosses of the unskilled that would be unhappy.
    I think that just one component, of a "workers Brexit". A bonfire of regulation and worker protections in some Hannanite Chlorine soaked fantasy is not what I want.
    I want Brexit to lead to the repeal of the Mines and Factories Act, 1842.
    I am sure that you jest (not least because we have few mines or factories employing the workers nowadays!) but certainly that is the view of at least one prominent potential Tory leader:

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-safety-standards-workers-rights-jacob-rees-mogg-a7459336.html?amp

    Notably from a family whose fortune was made off the backs of British miners!
    Well done the Rees Moggs for providing employment to local people
    Hahahaha very funny!
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    NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758

    It seems incredible that in the two years since the 2015 GE, Putney has become a marginal seat, with its Tory majority declining from over 10,000 then to just over 1,500 now.
    Didn't it occur to the likes of Justine Greening during the May 2017 campaign that she was in grave danger of losing her seat?
    Cabinet Minister or nor, she will need to put in a great deal more effort into her constituency work, where in my experience she has been virtually invisible, if she is to survive the next General Election.

    Ilford North went from a Tory majority of 5,404 in 2010 to a Labour majority of 9,639 in 2017.
    Cultural motivation to vote Labour is going to clash big time with economic motivation if Corbyn/McDonell get power or perceptions start to change as their programme is examined and Venezuela publically implodes. If Tory support weakens the objective circumstances for a new centrist party based on cross-party splits plus LibDems would be strong.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,149


    I'm sure there's lots of innovative jam-making if you go looking for it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81MWIsj2Kmc
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,802

    It seems incredible that in the two years since the 2015 GE, Putney has become a marginal seat, with its Tory majority declining from over 10,000 then to just over 1,500 now.
    Didn't it occur to the likes of Justine Greening during the May 2017 campaign that she was in grave danger of losing her seat?
    Cabinet Minister or nor, she will need to put in a great deal more effort into her constituency work, where in my experience she has been virtually invisible, if she is to survive the next General Election.

    Ilford North went from a Tory majority of 5,404 in 2010 to a Labour majority of 9,639 in 2017.
    There have been some dramatic turnarounds since 2010, in individual constituencies, even if the overall balance between Conservative and Labour hasn't changed that much.
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,636

    Off-topic:

    I came across this little gem of a website the other day. Find your location and see how the inexorable rise of the sea will affect you!
    http://flood.firetree.net/

    It turns out that, at 60 metres rise, I'll have a nice seaside property on the Isle of Cambourne ...

    Oh, and the London arguments on here will have sunk without trace ... ;)

    Swings and roundabouts, at Rye in East Sussex they've recently built a golf course on land reclaimed from the sea.
    I bet we're losing much more land than we're gaining atm!

    I have a picture from east Lincolnshire on my coastal walk. It was autumn, and I was walking along the edge of a newly-harvested field, the stubble ending at the very top of the cliffs. In a few months since harvesting, an appreciable area had been claimed to the sea.

    Happisburgh is another area where the differences can be seen year-on-year. Where I walked in 1999 is now well down on the beach.

    http://www.bgs.ac.uk/landslides/Happisburgh.html
    The point being that certainly around Happisburgh we have been losing land since the Bronze Age at least. It is a combination of isostatic readjustment following the removal of the ice sheets across northern Britain and the nature of the soft sediments that make up the coastline.

    A good example of this can be seen at Dunwich

    http://www.atlasobscura.com/places/lost-town-dunwich
    On the other hand the beach at Holkolm in North Norfolk has got significantly bigger, I think the erosion of NE Norfolk moves to NW Norfolk. Plenty of historical floods there including the big one in the late 40's.
    Holkolm is still sinking though. The whole of Britain south of a line roughly through Yorkshire/Black Country is sinking whilst everything to the North of that line is rising.
    I don't know if you saw it, but when this was last discussed a few months ago I mentioned a little story. I listen to a history podcast, and in it the American narrator opined that the Battle of Hastings occurred on a hill because the sea levels in the area had fallen since then...

    He's usually a good guy, so it was a brilliantly uncharacteristic gaff.
    The site of the Battle of Hastings (Senlac Hill) is well above any recent sea levels but the the region has risen in the past thousand years iirc. I believe nearby Bodium Castle was built on an inlet; it's now 12 miles from the sea. The medieval port of Rye is now several miles from the sea and Romney marsh was a bay in Roman times.

    I always thought that this is all due to the post glacial rebound but I may be wrong.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,802

    Off-topic:

    I came across this little gem of a website the other day. Find your location and see how the inexorable rise of the sea will affect you!
    http://flood.firetree.net/

    It turns out that, at 60 metres rise, I'll have a nice seaside property on the Isle of Cambourne ...

    Oh, and the London arguments on here will have sunk without trace ... ;)

    That's very interesting. A 2-3 m rise converts Thanet back into an island. A 5-7 m rise takes Eastern England back to about 1000 AD.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,859
    Come on Vince and the LDs, Amber Rudd's complete lack of understanding of how technology works and what encryption does should be a great opportunity to win some supporters from the blues.

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/08/01/amber_rudd_on_encryption/
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    Sandpit said:

    Come on Vince and the LDs, Amber Rudd's complete lack of understanding of how technology works and what encryption does should be a great opportunity to win some supporters from the blues.

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/08/01/amber_rudd_on_encryption/

    I do wonder who is advising politicians on this stuff. Cameron used to.come out with similar crap.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,975
    Mr. Pointer, some of it is deliberate. Lots of land has been drained around the Wash for agriculture. Obviously the Netherlands has changed a lot in that sort of way.
  • Options

    twitter.com/randerssays/status/892682474626707456

    Telegraph is a total clusterfuck of an operation these days.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    Sandpit said:

    Come on Vince and the LDs, Amber Rudd's complete lack of understanding of how technology works and what encryption does should be a great opportunity to win some supporters from the blues.

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/08/01/amber_rudd_on_encryption/

    I do wonder who is advising politicians on this stuff. Cameron used to.come out with similar crap.
    She is being advised by people who know one hell of a lot more about the subject than you, or anyone else who posts here.
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    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    Sandpit said:

    Come on Vince and the LDs, Amber Rudd's complete lack of understanding of how technology works and what encryption does should be a great opportunity to win some supporters from the blues.

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/08/01/amber_rudd_on_encryption/

    I do wonder who is advising politicians on this stuff. Cameron used to.come out with similar crap.
    I think it's the Politician's Syllogism in action.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited August 2017

    Sandpit said:

    Come on Vince and the LDs, Amber Rudd's complete lack of understanding of how technology works and what encryption does should be a great opportunity to win some supporters from the blues.

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/08/01/amber_rudd_on_encryption/

    I do wonder who is advising politicians on this stuff. Cameron used to.come out with similar crap.
    She is being advised by people who know one hell of a lot more about the subject than you, or anyone else who posts here.
    And then I can only imagine she is ignoring that advice. Because politicians keep coming out with totally ignorant nonsense on this stuff.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,859

    Sandpit said:

    Come on Vince and the LDs, Amber Rudd's complete lack of understanding of how technology works and what encryption does should be a great opportunity to win some supporters from the blues.

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/08/01/amber_rudd_on_encryption/

    I do wonder who is advising politicians on this stuff. Cameron used to.come out with similar crap.
    MI5 probably, pissed off that everyone's now using decent secure communication tools and they have to resort to old fashioned spying techniques.

    Every recent PM and HS has come out with the same bollocks of trying to uninvent stuff, none of them get it.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    And then I can only imagine she is ignoring that advice. Because politicians keep coming out with totally ignorant nonsense on this stuff.

    I doubt that very much.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited August 2017

    And then I can only imagine she is ignoring that advice. Because politicians keep coming out with totally ignorant nonsense on this stuff.

    I doubt that very much.
    Well it is total horseshit. You can't uninvent this technology.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    And then I can only imagine she is ignoring that advice. Because politicians keep coming out with totally ignorant nonsense on this stuff.

    I doubt that very much.
    Well it is total horseshit. You can't uninvent this technology.
    She's not suggesting you can.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited August 2017

    And then I can only imagine she is ignoring that advice. Because politicians keep coming out with totally ignorant nonsense on this stuff.

    I doubt that very much.
    Well it is total horseshit. You can't uninvent this technology.
    She's not suggesting you can.
    She is suggesting "real" people don't need it. I use secure end to end and vpn and I am neither a terrorist or a criminal and very much a real person. The IP I create is my livelihood and taking steps to protect myself is just plain sensible.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,859

    And then I can only imagine she is ignoring that advice. Because politicians keep coming out with totally ignorant nonsense on this stuff.

    I doubt that very much.
    Well it is total horseshit. You can't uninvent this technology.
    She's not suggesting you can.
    She's trying to suggest that governments can put the cat back in the bag.

    They really can't, and large companies like Apple are willing to defend their customers' right to privacy in the strongest terms possible.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,964

    twitter.com/randerssays/status/892682474626707456

    Telegraph is a total clusterfuck of an operation these days.
    Standar seems to be gloating. http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/daily-telegraph-accidentally-publishes-story-saying-prince-philip-is-dead-a3602156.html
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    She is suggesting "real" people don't need it. I use secure end to end and vpn and I am neither a terrorist or a criminal and very much a real person. The IP I create is my livelihood and taking steps to protect myself is just plain sensible.

    Sure. But what she actually said was that most users of WhatsApp and similar applications use them primarily for the convenience rather than for the strong end-to-end encryption, which seems a pretty unexceptional observation given that, for example, people post massive amounts of information about themselves on Facebook.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Sandpit said:

    She's trying to suggest that governments can put the cat back in the bag.

    They really can't, and large companies like Apple are willing to defend their customers' right to privacy in the strongest terms possible.

    Apple will do what US and EU law says they should do.
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    She is suggesting "real" people don't need it. I use secure end to end and vpn and I am neither a terrorist or a criminal and very much a real person. The IP I create is my livelihood and taking steps to protect myself is just plain sensible.

    Sure. But what she actually said was that most users of WhatsApp and similar applications use them primarily for the convenience rather than for the strong end-to-end encryption, which seems a pretty unexceptional observation given that, for example, people post massive amounts of information about themselves on Facebook.
    She then went on to talk about reasons to have "not backdoor" backdoors....
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    She is suggesting "real" people don't need it. I use secure end to end and vpn and I am neither a terrorist or a criminal and very much a real person. The IP I create is my livelihood and taking steps to protect myself is just plain sensible.

    Sure. But what she actually said was that most users of WhatsApp and similar applications use them primarily for the convenience rather than for the strong end-to-end encryption, which seems a pretty unexceptional observation given that, for example, people post massive amounts of information about themselves on Facebook.
    She then went on to talk about reasons to have "not backdoor" backdoors....
    Indeed, and very strong reasons they are too.
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    Sandpit said:

    Come on Vince and the LDs, Amber Rudd's complete lack of understanding of how technology works and what encryption does should be a great opportunity to win some supporters from the blues.

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/08/01/amber_rudd_on_encryption/

    I do wonder who is advising politicians on this stuff. Cameron used to.come out with similar crap.
    She is being advised by people who know one hell of a lot more about the subject than you, or anyone else who posts here.
    That is clearly not the case.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    GeoffM said:

    Sandpit said:

    Come on Vince and the LDs, Amber Rudd's complete lack of understanding of how technology works and what encryption does should be a great opportunity to win some supporters from the blues.

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/08/01/amber_rudd_on_encryption/

    I do wonder who is advising politicians on this stuff. Cameron used to.come out with similar crap.
    She is being advised by people who know one hell of a lot more about the subject than you, or anyone else who posts here.
    That is clearly not the case.
    Yes, I'm quite sure you know far more about the subject than GCHQ.
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    She is suggesting "real" people don't need it. I use secure end to end and vpn and I am neither a terrorist or a criminal and very much a real person. The IP I create is my livelihood and taking steps to protect myself is just plain sensible.

    Sure. But what she actually said was that most users of WhatsApp and similar applications use them primarily for the convenience rather than for the strong end-to-end encryption, which seems a pretty unexceptional observation given that, for example, people post massive amounts of information about themselves on Facebook.
    She then went on to talk about reasons to have "not backdoor" backdoors....
    Indeed, and very strong reasons they are too.
    No not at all. And this is where I return to saying the government keeping coming out with the same flawed crap.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited August 2017

    She is suggesting "real" people don't need it. I use secure end to end and vpn and I am neither a terrorist or a criminal and very much a real person. The IP I create is my livelihood and taking steps to protect myself is just plain sensible.

    Sure. But what she actually said was that most users of WhatsApp and similar applications use them primarily for the convenience rather than for the strong end-to-end encryption, which seems a pretty unexceptional observation given that, for example, people post massive amounts of information about themselves on Facebook.
    She then went on to talk about reasons to have "not backdoor" backdoors....
    Indeed, and very strong reasons they are too.
    No not at all. And this is where I return to saying the government keeping coming out with the same flawed crap.
    They, and all Western democratic governments, keep coming out with 'the same flawed crap' for an extremely good reason: the need to prevent terrorist attacks and give the security forces the tools to address criminal gangs, child prostitution and other other nasties in a technologically-changing world. They are not doing this out of cussedness or ignorance, and GCHQ, which advises on this, is one of the most sophisticated and successful organizations of its type in the world.
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