Seriously.....this is all true? Politics was never this interesting when I was young....even in Jezza Thorpes days with the shot dog....
"I turn now to the evidence given by Mr. Norman St. John Scott. He is a parasite, a pervert, a self-confessed player of the pink oboe, a worm.... A man (or woman) who by his (or her) own admission, chews pillows. But, he may still be telling the truth. That is entirely a matter for you to decide, members of the jury."
Gay donkeys? Handguns? Bunker in Bulgaria? Throwing strippers out of planes? Rees-Evans is clearly the hero UKIP deserves, but not the one it needs right now.
I would say that even though he is odds-on, Whittle is still the value bet, but of course you'd all remember it and in a n=1 situation the result could never justify my tip, only hammer it. So I'll just say that I am off to put a few quid on him.
The context is that it sounds as though NK has weaponised a nuclear warhead, the ultimate aim of their program.
If the USA is going to go in balls deep on a war footing, it needed to have done it about 6 months ago. I think I pointed this out in one of my many posts previously, before N Korea was nuclear capable...
The context is that it sounds as though NK has weaponised a nuclear warhead, the ultimate aim of their program.
If the USA is going to go in balls deep on a war footing, it needed to have done it about 6 months ago. I think I pointed this out in one of my many posts previously, before N Korea was nuclear capable...
They've probably been nuclear capable for a few years (depending on which tests you see as not having been a fizzle). Now they just have a better delivery mechanism.
But yes, it may well be a bit late now.
Personally I wonder why they go to the bother of a missile delivery system (aside from the phallic big-boy missiles). It'd be easier to smuggle a weapon into the US and place it somewhere very near any required ground zero.
But that wouldn't give them the effect they want in the international community.
Serious thought. Is today's Szechwan earthquake considerably more serious than the numbers reported so far? China is big enough, the prospect of North Korea is big enough that surely they won't get distracted, but......
The context is that it sounds as though NK has weaponised a nuclear warhead, the ultimate aim of their program.
If the USA is going to go in balls deep on a war footing, it needed to have done it about 6 months ago. I think I pointed this out in one of my many posts previously, before N Korea was nuclear capable...
They've probably been nuclear capable for a few years (depending on which tests you see as not having been a fizzle). Now they just have a better delivery mechanism.
But yes, it may well be a bit late now.
Personally I wonder why they go to the bother of a missile delivery system (aside from the phallic big-boy missiles). It'd be easier to smuggle a weapon into the US and place it somewhere very near any required ground zero.
But that wouldn't give them the effect they want in the international community.
I think you've nailed it in the last sentence.
A delivery system (as sophisticated as possible) gets you a seat at the big table. Or at least in the same room. All you have to do is successfully test it to make the point.
A bomb in a suitcase only gets you noticed after you've pressed the red button on the side.
The context is that it sounds as though NK has weaponised a nuclear warhead, the ultimate aim of their program.
Surely America would be best off acting BEFORE they did that? If you are going to act why wait until after they have a weaponised nuke?
Because doing something beforehand is difficult politically, especially after the Iraq mess. Obama in particular prevaricated massively.
Ironically if you listen to the speeches from the US election for all of the "Trump will kill us all" nonsense he was more of an isolationist and Hillary was the aggressive interventionist.
I reluctantly decided not to include in the main article the detail about him urinating in a bottle to reduce his carbon footprint.
Mr Meeks this is funny. I feel one must be a serious bettor to get involved with this lot. Do they have a grammarian?
Incidentally, I think I read somewhere that ancient Romans used human urine for cleaning and for curing leather. That would help lower our footprint surely.
I reluctantly decided not to include in the main article the detail about him urinating in a bottle to reduce his carbon footprint.
Mr Meeks this is funny. I feel one must be a serious bettor to get involved with this lot. Does their lot include a grammarian?
Incidentally, I think I read somewhere that ancient Romans used human urine for cleaning and for curing leather. That would help lower our footprint surely.
I think urine was collected from the big cities in medieval times and used as a mordant to set dyes in cloth. Plenty of people on here take the p*ss, but I don't think any of us collect it ...
The context is that it sounds as though NK has weaponised a nuclear warhead, the ultimate aim of their program.
If the USA is going to go in balls deep on a war footing, it needed to have done it about 6 months ago. I think I pointed this out in one of my many posts previously, before N Korea was nuclear capable...
I think it's more likely than not that there will be war with North Korea.
Kim Jong Un is like the boldest of the children who broke into Shanghai Zoo, and fired catapults at the crocodiles. He then climbed into their enclosure and started hitting them with sticks. They went into a feeding frenzy.
The context is that it sounds as though NK has weaponised a nuclear warhead, the ultimate aim of their program.
If the USA is going to go in balls deep on a war footing, it needed to have done it about 6 months ago. I think I pointed this out in one of my many posts previously, before N Korea was nuclear capable...
I think it's more likely than not that there will be war with North Korea.
Kim Jong Un is like the boldest of the children who broke into Shanghai Zoo, and fired catapults at the crocodiles. He then climbed into their enclosure and started hitting them with sticks. They went into a feeding frenzy.
There is an interesting Sam Harris podcast from a few weeks ago talking about this. Basically if the US strike North Korea, even without the nukes they have the capacity to kill 100,000s of South Koreans in seconds with conventional weapons.
The talk on the podcast was that no single senior person at the Pentagon backed any sort of strike because of the likely huge number of casualties. Furthermore, the aftermath of any sort of regime change is thought to make Afghanistan or Iraq look like childs play.
There are millions of North Koreans who have been indoctrinated into believing they are the chosen people, and the likes of the American's are but barbarians, and of course that Kim Jong Fatty Fatty Bum is literally god.
Brussels police opened fire on a car packed with explosives after a high-speed chase through the suburb of Molenbeek...The vehicle was reportedly registered in Germany.
Regarding the gay donkey trying to rape the horse...um, how big was the horse? Donkeys are small and horses are big, yes? How did the donkey manage to mount the larger horse? Was there some kind of step? How did this eventuate?
Pause
Should I be interrogating this this closely? Note to self: find better thing to do...
The context is that it sounds as though NK has weaponised a nuclear warhead, the ultimate aim of their program.
If the USA is going to go in balls deep on a war footing, it needed to have done it about 6 months ago. I think I pointed this out in one of my many posts previously, before N Korea was nuclear capable...
I think it's more likely than not that there will be war with North Korea.
Kim Jong Un is like the boldest of the children who broke into Shanghai Zoo, and fired catapults at the crocodiles. He then climbed into their enclosure and started hitting them with sticks. They went into a feeding frenzy.
There is an interesting Sam Harris podcast from a few weeks ago talking about this. Basically if the US strike North Korea, even without the nukes they have the capacity to kill 100,000s of South Koreans in seconds with conventional weapons.
The talk on the podcast was that no single senior person at the Pentagon backed any sort of strike because of the likely huge number of casualties. Furthermore, the aftermath of any sort of regime change is thought to make Afghanistan or Iraq look like childs play.
There are millions of North Koreans who have been indoctrinated into believing they are the chosen people, and the likes of the American's are but barbarians, and of course that Kim Jong Fatty Fatty Bum is literally god.
That's one of the reasons I believe it's in China's hands. There is little we (the west) can do for good, and much for harm.
I've often said that a decision to do nothing is as much a decision as a decision to do something. I fear we're about to find out that the consequences of the decision to do nothing about NK.
The candidates on offer are certainly a glittering array of talent.
One of my earliest memories of PB was a post of yours detailing the sexual deviancy of the British far right.
For some reason Alastair's thread reminded me of that.
Yes, that was fun.
I especially enjoyed how Colin Jordan had to resign as leader of the British Movement after shoplifting a pair of red knickers from M & S.
I wonder what he intended use he planned for his "acquisition"?
I cannot see a pair of plan cotton knickers in red, so I would think it likely that these were the lacy, stringy kind that are OK to wear for about 2 hours and after that you want to rip them off before you sweaty-itch to death.
Not a problem if you wear them over your face. You can go way more than 2 hours that way. I imagine.
I'm speechless with wonder at this offering of candidates. Truly gobsmacked. Just for starters, why on God's earth would you apparently come into possession of a fortified compound in Bulgaria? Why? How? When? Details??
I have a house with battlements that my Dad bought on a whim. Does that count?
Only if he has a licence to crenellate. Can't be having non standard crenellations.
The house had them when he bought it... he didn't crenellate on a whim! He's not some kind of oddball...
Do the crenellations have machicolations.? If they don't, they're cosmetic: the medaeval equivalent of a spoiler on a Morris Marina.
Believe it or not, this is a true thing...
h ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBVPcr7VjyQ h ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machicolation
Dropping in to say well done @AlastairMeeks for one of the funniest PB threads of all time, must have taken a fair while to research in the name of humouring us all in the middle of Silly Season
Regarding the gay donkey trying to rape the horse...um, how big was the horse? Donkeys are small and horses are big, yes? How did the donkey manage to mount the larger horse? Was there some kind of step? How did this eventuate?
Pause
Should I be interrogating this this closely? Note to self: find better thing to do...
Horses and donkeys can interbreed to create mules and burros, so presumably are anatomically compatible!
Presumably it was a rather rampant donkey stallion who wasnt well read in dating etiquette...
Regarding the gay donkey trying to rape the horse...um, how big was the horse? Donkeys are small and horses are big, yes? How did the donkey manage to mount the larger horse? Was there some kind of step? How did this eventuate?
Pause
Should I be interrogating this this closely? Note to self: find better thing to do...
That had occurred to me too, although horses do - for rather obvious reasons - start smaller than they end up becoming later in life.
I am struggling to believe that I actually typed that last sentence. But it is what it is.
I reluctantly decided not to include in the main article the detail about him urinating in a bottle to reduce his carbon footprint.
Mr Meeks this is funny. I feel one must be a serious bettor to get involved with this lot. Does their lot include a grammarian?
Incidentally, I think I read somewhere that ancient Romans used human urine for cleaning and for curing leather. That would help lower our footprint surely.
I think urine was collected from the big cities in medieval times and used as a mordant to set dyes in cloth. Plenty of people on here take the p*ss, but I don't think any of us collect it ...
The trade was as a fuller, to clean wool for weaving using stale urine for its ammonia. Fulling mills were famously stinky even in smellier times.
I'm speechless with wonder at this offering of candidates. Truly gobsmacked. Just for starters, why on God's earth would you apparently come into possession of a fortified compound in Bulgaria? Why? How? When? Details??
I have a house with battlements that my Dad bought on a whim. Does that count?
Only if he has a licence to crenellate. Can't be having non standard crenellations.
The house had them when he bought it... he didn't crenellate on a whim! He's not some kind of oddball...
Do the crenellations have machicolations.? If they don't, they're cosmetic: the medaeval equivalent of a spoiler on a Morris Marina.
Believe it or not, this is a true thing...
h ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBVPcr7VjyQ h ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machicolation
The house was built in the 1890s by a wealthy American who had just been made a Viscount and therefore needed a castle. I suspect they are entirely superfluous
I'm speechless with wonder at this offering of candidates. Truly gobsmacked. Just for starters, why on God's earth would you apparently come into possession of a fortified compound in Bulgaria? Why? How? When? Details??
I have a house with battlements that my Dad bought on a whim. Does that count?
Only if he has a licence to crenellate. Can't be having non standard crenellations.
The house had them when he bought it... he didn't crenellate on a whim! He's not some kind of oddball...
Do the crenellations have machicolations.? If they don't, they're cosmetic: the medaeval equivalent of a spoiler on a Morris Marina.
Believe it or not, this is a true thing...
h ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBVPcr7VjyQ h ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machicolation
The house was built in the 1890s by a wealthy American who had just been made a Viscount and therefore needed a castle. I suspect they are entirely superfluous
I recall my school boarding house having impressive battlements.
Traditionally they are intended to keep the hordes of barbarians out - but in our case quite the reverse apparently.
Regarding the gay donkey trying to rape the horse...um, how big was the horse? Donkeys are small and horses are big, yes? How did the donkey manage to mount the larger horse? Was there some kind of step? How did this eventuate?
Pause
Should I be interrogating this this closely? Note to self: find better thing to do...
That had occurred to me too, although horses do - for rather obvious reasons - start smaller than they end up becoming later in life.
I am struggling to believe that I actually typed that last sentence. But it is what it is.
The context is that it sounds as though NK has weaponised a nuclear warhead, the ultimate aim of their program.
If the USA is going to go in balls deep on a war footing, it needed to have done it about 6 months ago. I think I pointed this out in one of my many posts previously, before N Korea was nuclear capable...
I think it's more likely than not that there will be war with North Korea.
Kim Jong Un is like the boldest of the children who broke into Shanghai Zoo, and fired catapults at the crocodiles. He then climbed into their enclosure and started hitting them with sticks. They went into a feeding frenzy.
There is an interesting Sam Harris podcast from a few weeks ago talking about this. Basically if the US strike North Korea, even without the nukes they have the capacity to kill 100,000s of South Koreans in seconds with conventional weapons.
The talk on the podcast was that no single senior person at the Pentagon backed any sort of strike because of the likely huge number of casualties. Furthermore, the aftermath of any sort of regime change is thought to make Afghanistan or Iraq look like childs play.
There are millions of North Koreans who have been indoctrinated into believing they are the chosen people, and the likes of the American's are but barbarians, and of course that Kim Jong Fatty Fatty Bum is literally god.
While undoubtedly dangerous, NK's heavy artillery is not quite as destructive as depicted. Counter battery fire would be ferocious and accurate. It is discussed well here:
The context is that it sounds as though NK has weaponised a nuclear warhead, the ultimate aim of their program.
If the USA is going to go in balls deep on a war footing, it needed to have done it about 6 months ago. I think I pointed this out in one of my many posts previously, before N Korea was nuclear capable...
I think it's more likely than not that there will be war with North Korea.
Kim Jong Un is like the boldest of the children who broke into Shanghai Zoo, and fired catapults at the crocodiles. He then climbed into their enclosure and started hitting them with sticks. They went into a feeding frenzy.
There is an interesting Sam Harris podcast from a few weeks ago talking about this. Basically if the US strike North Korea, even without the nukes they have the capacity to kill 100,000s of South Koreans in seconds with conventional weapons.
The talk on the podcast was that no single senior person at the Pentagon backed any sort of strike because of the likely huge number of casualties. Furthermore, the aftermath of any sort of regime change is thought to make Afghanistan or Iraq look like childs play.
There are millions of North Koreans who have been indoctrinated into believing they are the chosen people, and the likes of the American's are but barbarians, and of course that Kim Jong Fatty Fatty Bum is literally god.
While undoubtedly dangerous, NK's heavy artillery is not quite as destructive as depicted. Counter battery fire would be ferocious and accurate.
NKs army looks good on paper but is substantially out of date, and like Iraq's will not last long in a conventional war.
The only way to beat developed countries at war is with assymetric war.
No offense, but I believe the expert on the Sam Harris podcast, backed up by interviews with senior people from the Pentagon, above your take.
They aren't doubting that South Korean / US / Japanese military approach would win, but it is the massive causalities they would take before they could.
Regarding the gay donkey trying to rape the horse...um, how big was the horse? Donkeys are small and horses are big, yes? How did the donkey manage to mount the larger horse? Was there some kind of step? How did this eventuate?
Pause
Should I be interrogating this this closely? Note to self: find better thing to do...
That had occurred to me too, although horses do - for rather obvious reasons - start smaller than they end up becoming later in life.
I am struggling to believe that I actually typed that last sentence. But it is what it is.
I'm speechless with wonder at this offering of candidates. Truly gobsmacked. Just for starters, why on God's earth would you apparently come into possession of a fortified compound in Bulgaria? Why? How? When? Details??
I have a house with battlements that my Dad bought on a whim. Does that count?
Only if he has a licence to crenellate. Can't be having non standard crenellations.
The house had them when he bought it... he didn't crenellate on a whim! He's not some kind of oddball...
Do the crenellations have machicolations.? If they don't, they're cosmetic: the medaeval equivalent of a spoiler on a Morris Marina.
Believe it or not, this is a true thing...
h ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBVPcr7VjyQ h ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machicolation
The house was built in the 1890s by a wealthy American who had just been made a Viscount and therefore needed a castle. I suspect they are entirely superfluous
It looks a beautiful building and I hope to get a tour one day!
Regarding the gay donkey trying to rape the horse...um, how big was the horse? Donkeys are small and horses are big, yes? How did the donkey manage to mount the larger horse? Was there some kind of step? How did this eventuate?
Pause
Should I be interrogating this this closely? Note to self: find better thing to do...
That had occurred to me too, although horses do - for rather obvious reasons - start smaller than they end up becoming later in life.
I am struggling to believe that I actually typed that last sentence. But it is what it is.
Jerry Bruckheimer: Beverly Hills Cop, Flashdance, Top Gun, Crimson Tide, The Rock, Con Air, Armageddon, Bad Boys, Enemy of the State, Black Hawk Down...
(OK, you have to overlook Pearl Harbor. But it's still not a bad CV)
So, let me get this straight. To be UKIP leader, you have to throw strippers out of an interstellar asteroid mining ship, whilst riding a gay donkey, and firing a glock at a nuclear bunker in Bulgaria.?Or something. Possibly the finest thread ever published on PB.com
The context is that it sounds as though NK has weaponised a nuclear warhead, the ultimate aim of their program.
If the USA is going to go in balls deep on a war footing, it needed to have done it about 6 months ago. I think I pointed this out in one of my many posts previously, before N Korea was nuclear capable...
I think it's more likely than not that there will be war with North Korea.
Kim Jong Un is like the boldest of the children who broke into Shanghai Zoo, and fired catapults at the crocodiles. He then climbed into their enclosure and started hitting them with sticks. They went into a feeding frenzy.
There is an interesting Sam Harris podcast from a few weeks ago talking about this. Basically if the US strike North Korea, even without the nukes they have the capacity to kill 100,000s of South Koreans in seconds with conventional weapons
While undoubtedly dangerous, NK's heavy artillery is not quite as destructive as depicted. Counter battery fire would be ferocious and accurate.
NKs army looks good on paper but is substantially out of date, and like Iraq's will not last long in a conventional war.
The only way to beat developed countries at war is with assymetric war.
No offense, but I believe the expert on the Sam Harris podcast, backed up by interviews with senior people from the Pentagon, above your take.
They aren't doubting that South Korean / US / Japanese military approach would win, but it is the massive causalities they would take before they could.
There is more specfic discussion here, and in great detail:
So, let me get this straight. To be UKIP leader, you have to throw strippers out of an interstellar asteroid mining ship, whilst riding a gay donkey, and firing a glock at a nuclear bunker in Bulgaria.?Or something. Possibly the finest thread ever published on PB.com
It's not an interstellar asteroid mining ship. It's an interstellar colony ship. The asteroid mining ship is strictly in-system. It's important not to get the two confused. Otherwise things might get silly...
FPTnP with eleven candidates for a leadership election is absurd. How fitting.
I know you're talking about leadership elections, but to channel my inner Sunil ... random FPTP trivia: there were 13 candidates in Maidenhead at the last election and the record number of candidates at a General Election was 15 in Sedgefield in 2005.
Those two produced decisive FPTP winners. Nothing absurd about those.
I'm speechless with wonder at this offering of candidates. Truly gobsmacked. Just for starters, why on God's earth would you apparently come into possession of a fortified compound in Bulgaria? Why? How? When? Details??
I have a house with battlements that my Dad bought on a whim. Does that count?
Only if he has a licence to crenellate. Can't be having non standard crenellations.
The house had them when he bought it... he didn't crenellate on a whim! He's not some kind of oddball...
Do the crenellations have machicolations.? If they don't, they're cosmetic: the medaeval equivalent of a spoiler on a Morris Marina.
Believe it or not, this is a true thing...
h ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBVPcr7VjyQ h ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machicolation
The house was built in the 1890s by a wealthy American who had just been made a Viscount and therefore needed a castle. I suspect they are entirely superfluous
It looks a beautiful building and I hope to get a tour one day!
Delighted to if we are both in London at the same time
I'm speechless with wonder at this offering of candidates. Truly gobsmacked. Just for starters, why on God's earth would you apparently come into possession of a fortified compound in Bulgaria? Why? How? When? Details??
I have a house with battlements that my Dad bought on a whim. Does that count?
Only if he has a licence to crenellate. Can't be having non standard crenellations.
The house had them when he bought it... he didn't crenellate on a whim! He's not some kind of oddball...
Do the crenellations have machicolations.? If they don't, they're cosmetic: the medaeval equivalent of a spoiler on a Morris Marina.
Believe it or not, this is a true thing...
h ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBVPcr7VjyQ h ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machicolation
The house was built in the 1890s by a wealthy American who had just been made a Viscount and therefore needed a castle. I suspect they are entirely superfluous
It looks a beautiful building and I hope to get a tour one day!
Delighted to if we are both in London at the same time
My sincere thanks and I look forward to that immensely.
The context is that it sounds as though NK has weaponised a nuclear warhead, the ultimate aim of their program.
If the USA is going to go in balls deep on a war footing, it needed to have done it about 6 months ago. I think I pointed this out in one of my many posts previously, before N Korea was nuclear capable...
I think it's more likely than not that there will be war with North Korea.
Kim Jong Un is like the boldest of the children who broke into Shanghai Zoo, and fired catapults at the crocodiles. He then climbed into their enclosure and started hitting them with sticks. They went into a feeding frenzy.
There is an interesting Sam Harris podcast from a few weeks ago talking about this. Basically if the US strike North Korea, even without the nukes they have the capacity to kill 100,000s of South Koreans in seconds with conventional weapons
While undoubtedly dangerous, NK's heavy artillery is not quite as destructive as depicted. Counter battery fire would be ferocious and accurate.
NKs army looks good on paper but is substantially out of date, and like Iraq's will not last long in a conventional war.
The only way to beat developed countries at war is with assymetric war.
No offense, but I believe the expert on the Sam Harris podcast, backed up by interviews with senior people from the Pentagon, above your take.
They aren't doubting that South Korean / US / Japanese military approach would win, but it is the massive causalities they would take before they could.
There is more specfic discussion here, and in great detail:
The context is that it sounds as though NK has weaponised a nuclear warhead, the ultimate aim of their program.
If the USA is going to go in balls deep on a war footing, it needed to have done it about 6 months ago. I think I pointed this out in one of my many posts previously, before N Korea was nuclear capable...
I think it's more likely than not that there will be war with North Korea. .
There is an interesting Sam Harris podcast from a few weeks ago talking about this. Basically if the US strike North Korea, even without the nukes they have the capacity to kill 100,000s of South Koreans in seconds with conventional weapons
While undoubtedly dangerous, NK's heavy artillery is not quite as destructive as depicted. Counter battery fire would be ferocious and accurate.
NKs army looks good on paper but is substantially out of date, and like Iraq's will not last long in a conventional war.
The only way to beat developed countries at war is with assymetric war.
No offense, but I believe the expert on the Sam Harris podcast, backed up by interviews with senior people from the Pentagon, above your take.
They aren't doubting that South Korean / US / Japanese military approach would win, but it is the massive causalities they would take before they could.
There is more specfic discussion here, and in great detail:
It is substantially the same though. NK could only bombard Seoul with limited assets, and by doing so would have to concentrate them in a small area.
A war in Korea would be nasty for a couple of weeks, but rapidly turn into a smart weapon turkey shoot.
Nobody is disagreeing who would win, what seems to be at odds is the size of the initial casualties. Your link says 30,000, mine says more like 300,000. Even the lower end of the estimates is seem as too large a price to pay to try and depose him...and as I said in the initial post the other massive problem is millions of north koreans are totally indoctrinated and simply removing the madman won't solve that.
Before we go too far in celebrating the strange beliefs of UKIP's candidates, it seems that, as ever, Ireland leads the way:
"Bad luck caused by disturbed fairy forts is causing dips in a major road between County Kerry and County Cork, an Irish member of parliament has said."
Just popping to the bomb shelter to make sure I have plenty of cans of baked beans...
Even assuming they mean an unarmed weapon, there has to be an international reaction now.
I've just got no idea *what* that reaction should be.
It's a difficult one, and the international community need to be prepared to react militarily and quickly if required.
As a minimum, any NK missile not going straight up can expect to be taken out.
That would certainly be a test of the US's ABM tech, but has its own difficulties. If NK were to launch a test missile and it was taken out by an ABM, NK can claim that it was a 'peaceful' shot and the US has taken warlike actions. It would ratchet up tensions.
Yet it is required. I'm also far from sure the US ABM tech is reliable enough.
It might also require the US to place assets so close to NK (particularly if they are boost-phase ABM) that China gets concerned. Or near enough that they'd get dangerously close to NK.
As ever with NK, China is the key (and Russia to a lesser extent). They need to act against their one-time surrogate state.
Just popping to the bomb shelter to make sure I have plenty of cans of baked beans...
Even assuming they mean an unarmed weapon, there has to be an international reaction now.
I've just got no idea *what* that reaction should be.
It's a difficult one, and the international community need to be prepared to react militarily and quickly if required.
As a minimum, any NK missile not going straight up can expect to be taken out.
That would certainly be a test of the US's ABM tech, but has its own difficulties. If NK were to launch a test missile and it was taken out by an ABM, NK can claim that it was a 'peaceful' shot and the US has taken warlike actions. It would ratchet up tensions.
Yet it is required. I'm also far from sure the US ABM tech is reliable enough.
It might also require the US to place assets so close to NK (particularly if they are boost-phase ABM) that China gets concerned. Or near enough that they'd get dangerously close to NK.
As ever with NK, China is the key (and Russia to a lesser extent). They need to act against their one-time surrogate state.
Pretty much agree with that, the US defence systems are most likely out of date although they did test the 747-based airborne laser a couple of years back.
Right now though, the danger is of not acting, Kim is a total nutter who would happily nuke Washington if he had the technology to do it!
It could well be that a missile getting shot down causes the mad man to react, in which case we (the UN) have to have resources in place to minimise the casualties in Seoul. China needs to be told in no uncertain terms that if Beijing can't deal with Kim, then the rest of the world will do it instead.
Just popping to the bomb shelter to make sure I have plenty of cans of baked beans...
Even assuming they mean an unarmed weapon, there has to be an international reaction now.
I've just got no idea *what* that reaction should be.
It's a difficult one, and the international community need to be prepared to react militarily and quickly if required.
As a minimum, any NK missile not going straight up can expect to be taken out.
That would certainly be a test of the US's ABM tech, but has its own difficulties. If NK were to launch a test missile and it was taken out by an ABM, NK can claim that it was a 'peaceful' shot and the US has taken warlike actions. It would ratchet up tensions.
Yet it is required. I'm also far from sure the US ABM tech is reliable enough.
It might also require the US to place assets so close to NK (particularly if they are boost-phase ABM) that China gets concerned. Or near enough that they'd get dangerously close to NK.
As ever with NK, China is the key (and Russia to a lesser extent). They need to act against their one-time surrogate state.
Pretty much agree with that, the US defence systems are most likely out of date although they did test the 747-based airborne laser a couple of years back.
Right now though, the danger is of not acting, Kim is a total nutter who would happily nuke Washington if he had the technology to do it!
It could well be that a missile getting shot down causes the mad man to react, in which case we (the UN) have to have resources in place to minimise the casualties in Seoul. China needs to be told in no uncertain terms that if Beijing can't deal with Kim, then the rest of the world will do it instead.
I think the 747-based Air-Borne Laser is now at the boneyard.
AIUI the system had many problems: not the least that the chemical lasers it used were not powerful enough and had massively long (compared to the expected usage) recharge times. They knew it was a dead=end technology even as they developed it.
It was really for working out the technology of getting laser power through the atmosphere, with the optics, computers and beam management all making vast strides during the project. Allegedly ...
Just popping to the bomb shelter to make sure I have plenty of cans of baked beans...
Even assuming they mean an unarmed weapon, there has to be an international reaction now.
I've just got no idea *what* that reaction should be.
It's a difficult one, and the international community need to be prepared to react militarily and quickly if required.
As a minimum, any NK missile not going straight up can expect to be taken out.
That would certainly be a test of the US's ABM tech, but has its own difficulties. If NK were to launch a test missile and it was taken out by an ABM, NK can claim that it was a 'peaceful' shot and the US has taken warlike actions. It would ratchet up tensions.
Yet it is required. I'm also far from sure the US ABM tech is reliable enough.
It might also require the US to place assets so close to NK (particularly if they are boost-phase ABM) that China gets concerned. Or near enough that they'd get dangerously close to NK.
As ever with NK, China is the key (and Russia to a lesser extent). They need to act against their one-time surrogate state.
Pretty much agree with that, the US defence systems are most likely out of date although they did test the 747-based airborne laser a couple of years back.
Right now though, the danger is of not acting, Kim is a total nutter who would happily nuke Washington if he had the technology to do it!
It could well be that a missile getting shot down causes the mad man to react, in which case we (the UN) have to have resources in place to minimise the casualties in Seoul. China needs to be told in no uncertain terms that if Beijing can't deal with Kim, then the rest of the world will do it instead.
I think the 747-based Air-Borne Laser is now at the boneyard.
AIUI the system had many problems: not the least that the chemical lasers it used were not powerful enough and had massively long (compared to the expected usage) recharge times. They knew it was a dead=end technology even as they developed it.
It was really for working out the technology of getting laser power through the atmosphere, with the optics, computers and beam management all making vast strides during the project. Allegedly ...
It's actually made its way through the boneyard and out the other side. It was scrapped in 2014.
The next generation is planned to be a UAV version with a flying demo due in 2021ish.
The problem I see with conducting a war with NK is the need to get large quantities of up to date assets in theatre. Iraq was a turkey shoot both times because there was a months long build up of the most advanced armoured units on the planet before it kicked off. Iraq had no choice but to sit and wait. NK not so much...
Non nuclear cruise missile technology has proven to be relatively ineffective requiring huge numbers of expensive missiles to take out a single airfield, for example. I don't see how they could be relied upon to take out thousands of artillery pieces quickly and reliably.
Just popping to the bomb shelter to make sure I have plenty of cans of baked beans...
Even assuming they mean an unarmed weapon, there has to be an international reaction now.
I've just got no idea *what* that reaction should be.
It's a difficult one, and the international community need to be prepared to react militarily and quickly if required.
As a minimum, any NK missile not going straight up can expect to be taken out.
That would certainly be a test of the US's ABM tech, but has its own difficulties. If NK were to launch a test missile and it was taken out by an ABM, NK can claim that it was a 'peaceful' shot and the US has taken warlike actions. It would ratchet up tensions.
Yet it is required. I'm also far from sure the US ABM tech is reliable enough.
It might also require the US to place assets so close to NK (particularly if they are boost-phase ABM) that China gets concerned. Or near enough that they'd get dangerously close to NK.
As ever with NK, China is the key (and Russia to a lesser extent). They need to act against their one-time surrogate state.
Pretty much agree with that, the US defence systems are most likely out of date although they did test the 747-based airborne laser a couple of years back.
Right now though, the danger is of not acting, Kim is a total nutter who would happily nuke Washington if he had the technology to do it!
It could well be that a missile getting shot down causes the mad man to react, in which case we (the UN) have to have resources in place to minimise the casualties in Seoul. China needs to be told in no uncertain terms that if Beijing can't deal with Kim, then the rest of the world will do it instead.
I think the 747-based Air-Borne Laser is now at the boneyard.
AIUI the system had many problems: not the least that the chemical lasers it used were not powerful enough and had massively long (compared to the expected usage) recharge times. They knew it was a dead=end technology even as they developed it.
It was really for working out the technology of getting laser power through the atmosphere, with the optics, computers and beam management all making vast strides during the project. Allegedly ...
It's actually made its way through the boneyard and out the other side. It was scrapped in 2014.
The next generation is planned to be a UAV version with a flying demo due in 2021ish.
Ah, thanks. The UAV version isn't much use now then ...
The problem I see with conducting a war with NK is the need to get large quantities of up to date assets in theatre. Iraq was a turkey shoot both times because there was a months long build up of the most advanced armoured units on the planet before it kicked off. Iraq had no choice but to sit and wait. NK not so much...
Non nuclear cruise missile technology has proven to be relatively ineffective requiring huge numbers of expensive missiles to take out a single airfield, for example. I don't see how they could be relied upon to take out thousands of artillery pieces quickly and reliably.
The US options here are horribly tricky.
Reading the conversations between FrancisU and others below, what concerns me is what we don't know about NK's capabilities. We know they're fairly strong in men, and whilst their kit isn't the latest, it can still be damaging.
Witness the sinking of a SK warship a few year back.
The problem I see with conducting a war with NK is the need to get large quantities of up to date assets in theatre. Iraq was a turkey shoot both times because there was a months long build up of the most advanced armoured units on the planet before it kicked off. Iraq had no choice but to sit and wait. NK not so much...
Non nuclear cruise missile technology has proven to be relatively ineffective requiring huge numbers of expensive missiles to take out a single airfield, for example. I don't see how they could be relied upon to take out thousands of artillery pieces quickly and reliably.
The US options here are horribly tricky.
Reading the conversations between FrancisU and others below, what concerns me is what we don't know about NK's capabilities. We know they're fairly strong in men, and whilst their kit isn't the latest, it can still be damaging.
Witness the sinking of a SK warship a few year back.
I strongly suspect that the quality of NK's kit will be very poor but the quantity is huge. The key to this is not the US but SK. Are they really willing to accept tens of thousands of civilian casualties to bring this to an end? At the moment there are 20k US troops in SK. Not enough to do anything offensive even if SK were minded to let them.
If N Korea sticks a missile on Guam, I think it would be annihilated. It would also improve Trump/Pence chances in 2020
Yes...and even if the NorKs tie a box around the missile and sign it there will be conspiracy theories until the end of time that it's been faked by the US (just like the moon landings were).
The problem I see with conducting a war with NK is the need to get large quantities of up to date assets in theatre. Iraq was a turkey shoot both times because there was a months long build up of the most advanced armoured units on the planet before it kicked off. Iraq had no choice but to sit and wait. NK not so much...
Non nuclear cruise missile technology has proven to be relatively ineffective requiring huge numbers of expensive missiles to take out a single airfield, for example. I don't see how they could be relied upon to take out thousands of artillery pieces quickly and reliably.
The US options here are horribly tricky.
Reading the conversations between FrancisU and others below, what concerns me is what we don't know about NK's capabilities. We know they're fairly strong in men, and whilst their kit isn't the latest, it can still be damaging.
Witness the sinking of a SK warship a few year back.
I strongly suspect that the quality of NK's kit will be very poor but the quantity is huge. The key to this is not the US but SK. Are they really willing to accept tens of thousands of civilian casualties to bring this to an end? At the moment there are 20k US troops in SK. Not enough to do anything offensive even if SK were minded to let them.
I suspect SK's army could take out the North by itself. NK has no fancy IT smart kit, SK has bucket loads.
The problem I see with conducting a war with NK is the need to get large quantities of up to date assets in theatre. Iraq was a turkey shoot both times because there was a months long build up of the most advanced armoured units on the planet before it kicked off. Iraq had no choice but to sit and wait. NK not so much...
Non nuclear cruise missile technology has proven to be relatively ineffective requiring huge numbers of expensive missiles to take out a single airfield, for example. I don't see how they could be relied upon to take out thousands of artillery pieces quickly and reliably.
The US options here are horribly tricky.
Reading the conversations between FrancisU and others below, what concerns me is what we don't know about NK's capabilities. We know they're fairly strong in men, and whilst their kit isn't the latest, it can still be damaging.
Witness the sinking of a SK warship a few year back.
I strongly suspect that the quality of NK's kit will be very poor but the quantity is huge. The key to this is not the US but SK. Are they really willing to accept tens of thousands of civilian casualties to bring this to an end? At the moment there are 20k US troops in SK. Not enough to do anything offensive even if SK were minded to let them.
I suspect SK's army could take out the North by itself. NK has no fancy IT smart kit, SK has bucket loads.
I suspect so too and that is what is required so SK is key,
The problem I see with conducting a war with NK is the need to get large quantities of up to date assets in theatre. Iraq was a turkey shoot both times because there was a months long build up of the most advanced armoured units on the planet before it kicked off. Iraq had no choice but to sit and wait. NK not so much...
Non nuclear cruise missile technology has proven to be relatively ineffective requiring huge numbers of expensive missiles to take out a single airfield, for example. I don't see how they could be relied upon to take out thousands of artillery pieces quickly and reliably.
The US options here are horribly tricky.
Reading the conversations between FrancisU and others below, what concerns me is what we don't know about NK's capabilities. We know they're fairly strong in men, and whilst their kit isn't the latest, it can still be damaging.
Witness the sinking of a SK warship a few year back.
I strongly suspect that the quality of NK's kit will be very poor but the quantity is huge. The key to this is not the US but SK. Are they really willing to accept tens of thousands of civilian casualties to bring this to an end? At the moment there are 20k US troops in SK. Not enough to do anything offensive even if SK were minded to let them.
I suspect SK's army could take out the North by itself. NK has no fancy IT smart kit, SK has bucket loads.
Look at a map -- Seoul (population 10 million) is within spitting distance of the border. Mere tens of thousands is wildly optimistic.
If N Korea sticks a missile on Guam, I think it would be annihilated. It would also improve Trump/Pence chances in 2020
I could see trump going to war simply to help his ratings rally. And to get better numbers in time for the mid terms. He probably think north Korea would be a quick easy win. Mad men.
The problem I see with conducting a war with NK is the need to get large quantities of up to date assets in theatre. Iraq was a turkey shoot both times because there was a months long build up of the most advanced armoured units on the planet before it kicked off. Iraq had no choice but to sit and wait. NK not so much...
Non nuclear cruise missile technology has proven to be relatively ineffective requiring huge numbers of expensive missiles to take out a single airfield, for example. I don't see how they could be relied upon to take out thousands of artillery pieces quickly and reliably.
The US options here are horribly tricky.
Reading the conversations between FrancisU and others below, what concerns me is what we don't know about NK's capabilities. We know they're fairly strong in men, and whilst their kit isn't the latest, it can still be damaging.
Witness the sinking of a SK warship a few year back.
I strongly suspect that the quality of NK's kit will be very poor but the quantity is huge. The key to this is not the US but SK. Are they really willing to accept tens of thousands of civilian casualties to bring this to an end? At the moment there are 20k US troops in SK. Not enough to do anything offensive even if SK were minded to let them.
I suspect SK's army could take out the North by itself. NK has no fancy IT smart kit, SK has bucket loads.
Look at a map -- Seoul (population 10 million) is within spitting distance of the border. Mere tens of thousands is wildly optimistic.
This is hardly news
its why seoul has massive civilian protection programmes
The problem I see with conducting a war with NK is the need to get large quantities of up to date assets in theatre. Iraq was a turkey shoot both times because there was a months long build up of the most advanced armoured units on the planet before it kicked off. Iraq had no choice but to sit and wait. NK not so much...
Non nuclear cruise missile technology has proven to be relatively ineffective requiring huge numbers of expensive missiles to take out a single airfield, for example. I don't see how they could be relied upon to take out thousands of artillery pieces quickly and reliably.
The US options here are horribly tricky.
Reading the conversations between FrancisU and others below, what concerns me is what we don't know about NK's capabilities. We know they're fairly strong in men, and whilst their kit isn't the latest, it can still be damaging.
Witness the sinking of a SK warship a few year back.
I strongly suspect that the quality of NK's kit will be very poor but the quantity is huge. The key to this is not the US but SK. Are they really willing to accept tens of thousands of civilian casualties to bring this to an end? At the moment there are 20k US troops in SK. Not enough to do anything offensive even if SK were minded to let them.
I suspect SK's army could take out the North by itself. NK has no fancy IT smart kit, SK has bucket loads.
But NK are not stupid. They've been on a war footing for decades, and know that they will lose a long war without political support. If they launch a war expect it to be to their strengths, and aimed to knock SK out militarily and keep China or Russia on-side politically.
Also expect a large number of fifth-column strikes within SK.
About five or so years ago there was a brilliant open-source blog that discussed NK's capabilities in detail. Sadly it went invited-access only and I lost track of it.
Mr. Brooke, it's easy to say a country should take a difficult step that will cause it a lot of pain, in order to avert worse in the future, but it's harder to do.
[As an aside, Machiavelli wrote that one of the reasons Romans liked going to war so much was that they thought putting it off only meant deferring it to the enemies' advantage. A Roman response to North Korea would've meant a full-scale attack decades ago].
If N Korea sticks a missile on Guam, I think it would be annihilated. It would also improve Trump/Pence chances in 2020
I could see trump going to war simply to help his ratings rally. And to get better numbers in time for the mid terms. He probably think north Korea would be a quick easy win. Mad men.
I'm no fan of Trump, but you can't blame him for this one. What we are seeing are the consequences of inaction, especially by Obama and China.
What NK said last night borders on a declaration of war. It's not quite there yet, but it's blooming close.
Mr. Brooke, it's easy to say a country should take a difficult step that will cause it a lot of pain, in order to avert worse in the future, but it's harder to do.
[As an aside, Machiavelli wrote that one of the reasons Romans liked going to war so much was that they thought putting it off only meant deferring it to the enemies' advantage. A Roman response to North Korea would've meant a full-scale attack decades ago].
Edited extra bit: Mr. Jessop, and cyber-attacks.
What concerns me: now they have nukes, a massive high-altitude air-burst over SK that causes widespread EMP effects. It will knock out much of SK's infrastructure, whilst NK's is ore old-fashioned. Even some SK hardware might be affected, despite rad hardening.
In the summer of 1914 the entire British political establishment was wrestling with the issue of Irish home rule, which was the biggest issue of the day. By far. And one of the most controversial- including a possible armed uprising in the north.
No-one saw WW1 coming or put much effort into trying to ameliorate it.
Comments
I would say that even though he is odds-on, Whittle is still the value bet, but of course you'd all remember it and in a n=1 situation the result could never justify my tip, only hammer it. So I'll just say that I am off to put a few quid on him.
I decided it was best to wait until I left the office and got home before trying "Gay Donkey Sex Rape Story" in The Google.
But yes, it may well be a bit late now.
Personally I wonder why they go to the bother of a missile delivery system (aside from the phallic big-boy missiles). It'd be easier to smuggle a weapon into the US and place it somewhere very near any required ground zero.
But that wouldn't give them the effect they want in the international community.
A delivery system (as sophisticated as possible) gets you a seat at the big table. Or at least in the same room. All you have to do is successfully test it to make the point.
A bomb in a suitcase only gets you noticed after you've pressed the red button on the side.
In reality you'd develop both at the same time.
Incidentally, I think I read somewhere that ancient Romans used human urine for cleaning and for curing leather. That would help lower our footprint surely.
Kim Jong Un is like the boldest of the children who broke into Shanghai Zoo, and fired catapults at the crocodiles. He then climbed into their enclosure and started hitting them with sticks. They went into a feeding frenzy.
The talk on the podcast was that no single senior person at the Pentagon backed any sort of strike because of the likely huge number of casualties. Furthermore, the aftermath of any sort of regime change is thought to make Afghanistan or Iraq look like childs play.
There are millions of North Koreans who have been indoctrinated into believing they are the chosen people, and the likes of the American's are but barbarians, and of course that Kim Jong Fatty Fatty Bum is literally god.
Edit: Link to podcast
https://www.samharris.org/podcast/item/must-we-accept-a-nuclear-north-korea
Brussels police opened fire on a car packed with explosives after a high-speed chase through the suburb of Molenbeek...The vehicle was reportedly registered in Germany.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4772258/Police-Brussels-open-fire-car.html
If you want to know about China's program, look up Qian Xuesan. I recon the Americans wish they hadn't mistreated him quite so badly ...
Pause
Should I be interrogating this this closely? Note to self: find better thing to do...
I've often said that a decision to do nothing is as much a decision as a decision to do something. I fear we're about to find out that the consequences of the decision to do nothing about NK.
Believe it or not, this is a true thing...
h ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBVPcr7VjyQ
h ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machicolation
Also dropping in to say Holy F***, North Korea!
Presumably it was a rather rampant donkey stallion who wasnt well read in dating etiquette...
I am struggling to believe that I actually typed that last sentence. But it is what it is.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulling
Traditionally they are intended to keep the hordes of barbarians out - but in our case quite the reverse apparently.
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/could-north-korea-annihilate-seoul-its-artillery-20345?page=2
NKs army looks good on paper but is substantially out of date, and like Iraq's will not last long in a conventional war.
The only way to beat developed countries at war is with assymetric war.
They aren't doubting that South Korean / US / Japanese military approach would win, but it is the massive causalities they would take before they could.
Why don't thy just call it a day?
(OK, you have to overlook Pearl Harbor. But it's still not a bad CV)
Possibly the finest thread ever published on PB.com
http://nautilus.org/napsnet/napsnet-special-reports/mind-the-gap-between-rhetoric-and-reality/
Maps, artillery range fans and all. Only the Northern suburbs of Seoul are in range and there are shelters for 20 million people.
By this estimate around 30 000 dead in a bombardment of Seoul suburbs, and fading quite rapidly due to countermeasures and logistics.
Those two produced decisive FPTP winners. Nothing absurd about those.
The one I linked to is from this month, based upon current discussions with those in the Pentagon.
A war in Korea would be nasty for a couple of weeks, but rapidly turn into a smart weapon turkey shoot.
https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/895014262804033536
https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/895033642531082240
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-40871416
Just popping to the bomb shelter to make sure I have plenty of cans of baked beans...
I've just got no idea *what* that reaction should be.
As a minimum, any NK missile not going straight up can expect to be taken out.
Yet it is required. I'm also far from sure the US ABM tech is reliable enough.
It might also require the US to place assets so close to NK (particularly if they are boost-phase ABM) that China gets concerned. Or near enough that they'd get dangerously close to NK.
As ever with NK, China is the key (and Russia to a lesser extent). They need to act against their one-time surrogate state.
Seriously, lack of Twitter should be seen as a boon for politicians, not a disadvantage!
Right now though, the danger is of not acting, Kim is a total nutter who would happily nuke Washington if he had the technology to do it!
It could well be that a missile getting shot down causes the mad man to react, in which case we (the UN) have to have resources in place to minimise the casualties in Seoul. China needs to be told in no uncertain terms that if Beijing can't deal with Kim, then the rest of the world will do it instead.
Far too many public figures open their mouth on Twitter in order to insert their foot.
AIUI the system had many problems: not the least that the chemical lasers it used were not powerful enough and had massively long (compared to the expected usage) recharge times. They knew it was a dead=end technology even as they developed it.
It was really for working out the technology of getting laser power through the atmosphere, with the optics, computers and beam management all making vast strides during the project. Allegedly ...
The next generation is planned to be a UAV version with a flying demo due in 2021ish.
Non nuclear cruise missile technology has proven to be relatively ineffective requiring huge numbers of expensive missiles to take out a single airfield, for example. I don't see how they could be relied upon to take out thousands of artillery pieces quickly and reliably.
The US options here are horribly tricky.
Witness the sinking of a SK warship a few year back.
Whilst the clouds gather.
Mr. Royale, could you elaborate?
Seoul's within range of conventional artillery, and there's a lot of it just ready to rain down fire on the South Korean capital.
but if youre sat next to a ticking bomb that gets bigger each day, at what point do you think Id better do something about this ?
its why seoul has massive civilian protection programmes
it wont stop deaths but it will reduce them
Also expect a large number of fifth-column strikes within SK.
About five or so years ago there was a brilliant open-source blog that discussed NK's capabilities in detail. Sadly it went invited-access only and I lost track of it.
China is the key.
[As an aside, Machiavelli wrote that one of the reasons Romans liked going to war so much was that they thought putting it off only meant deferring it to the enemies' advantage. A Roman response to North Korea would've meant a full-scale attack decades ago].
Edited extra bit: Mr. Jessop, and cyber-attacks.
What NK said last night borders on a declaration of war. It's not quite there yet, but it's blooming close.
Nevertheless, you've threatened to download your brain into a smart PC sometime around 2050, so my descendants can continue to enjoy your commentary.
Most likely it would splash into the sea.
No-one saw WW1 coming or put much effort into trying to ameliorate it.