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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,055
    In Brexit news tonight, May orders a charm offensive, and officials complain that they are being denied access to water so the EU can gain an advantage.

    http://www.politico.eu/article/britain-launches-brexit-charm-offensive-dexeu/

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/09/britains-brexit-negotiators-denied-water-brussels-divorce-talks/
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,962
    viewcode said:

    Submitted without comment.

    * Essexit, 08:15pm 2017-08-09

    Essexit said:

    ...I spent months trying to be polite...

    * Essexit, 10:00pm 2017-08-09
    Essexit said:

    ...Remoaner...

    I don't see inconsistency, they are in chronological order :p
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    DavidL said:

    Essexit said:

    I've been taking a look at James Chappers Twitter feed just now.

    I presume he's not trying to win people over to his side of the argument.

    Team Remain is growing and getting more determined day by day.

    https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/888416778598199296
    Whatever faults Cameron has, he's not shown any signs of being a Remoaner. That's a photo of him with this Chapman chap from over two weeks ago.
    Can Dave not come back and do something more useful with his time like run the country? I think he would be rather good at it.
    Not happening.
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    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956
    viewcode said:

    Submitted without comment.

    * Essexit, 08:15pm 2017-08-09

    Essexit said:

    ...I spent months trying to be polite...

    * Essexit, 10:00pm 2017-08-09
    Essexit said:

    ...Remoaner...

    'Spent' - past tense.
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    Con gain every seat in Sheffield next time around.

    https://twitter.com/JayMitchinson/status/895399115340828672
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,732

    ...in cabinet terms losing Carrington...and having to promote Pym in exchange (who was not only a wet but hated her guts) could have weakened her control over the cabinet considerably had it not been for the personal popularity she gained following the war.

    As previously mentioned I'm plowing thru Max Hastings's books at the moment. One of them is 'Battle for the Falklands', co-authored with Simon Jenkins. Hastings makes the point that Carrington's resignation was ill-timed and selfish: it could have been easily left until after the war and made the PM's life more difficult than it needed to be at a time of great stress, forcing her to spend time (unsuccessfully) persuading him to stay on when she had far better things to do.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    In Brexit news tonight, May orders a charm offensive, and officials complain that they are being denied access to water so the EU can gain an advantage.

    http://www.politico.eu/article/britain-launches-brexit-charm-offensive-dexeu/

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/09/britains-brexit-negotiators-denied-water-brussels-divorce-talks/

    Boris and Captain Underpants on a charm offensive? They may manage tbe latter!
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    Cyclefree said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Disturbing.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-40879427

    Credit to BBC for not soft-soaping it.

    25 "Asians"

    If I were a Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, Christian or atheist Asian I wouldn't be happy with that description
    If Roman Catholic immigrants were constantly gang raping young Asian girls in an Islamic country, I think I would find it unfair if the press of that country described the perpetrators as "Europeans", tarring Jews, Anglicans, atheists et al with the same brush. These "Asian" rapists who collude together in Northern towns rarely seem to come from Indian origin do they?
    The BBC article does give the national origins of the perpetrators.

    I find it utterly bewildering why any man would do what these men did. How can one possibly enjoy sex with a drugged drunk unwilling frightened child? How does one not feel disgusted at oneself?
    There is a scene in Marathon Man (book) that perhaps explains this.

    Babe is being tortured by Szell, the Nazi dentist, and asks him how he can do this to anyone. Szell thinks about it and replies that to him, Jews will never really seem human.

    It's that, I reckon.
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    Essexit said:

    Scott_P said:

    It's like shooting fish in a barrel...

    Ah, animal cruelty's your thing? In good company with fellow EU-phile headbanger Heseltine then!
    Bloody Remoaners! Stealing our headbangery!
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    Mortimer said:

    Scott_P said:

    Essexit said:

    Living in denial is too mild. They've dreamt up an alternate reality.

    Is it an alternative reality in which we give £350m a week to the EU, and we should give it to the NHS instead?
    Makes me larf that the headbangers are still falling into the trap of repeating the mantra...
    Yet Leavers go into absolute meltdown whenever they are reminded that Leave won by pandering to xenophobia.
    But they might have won bigger by not doing so. You don't know.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,202

    Cyclefree said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Disturbing.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-40879427

    Credit to BBC for not soft-soaping it.

    25 "Asians"

    If I were a Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, Christian or atheist Asian I wouldn't be happy with that description
    If Roman Catholic immigrants were constantly gang raping young Asian girls in an Islamic country, I think I would find it unfair if the press of that country described the perpetrators as "Europeans", tarring Jews, Anglicans, atheists et al with the same brush. These "Asian" rapists who collude together in Northern towns rarely seem to come from Indian origin do they?
    The BBC article does give the national origins of the perpetrators.

    I find it utterly bewildering why any man would do what these men did. How can one possibly enjoy sex with a drugged drunk unwilling frightened child? How does one not feel disgusted at oneself?
    There is a scene in Marathon Man (book) that perhaps explains this.

    Babe is being tortured by Szell, the Nazi dentist, and asks him how he can do this to anyone. Szell thinks about it and replies that to him, Jews will never really seem human.

    It's that, I reckon.
    Thanks. That explains why the victim is treated in the way they are. It does not explain to me what enjoyment the man gets from such sex. Part of the enjoyment of sex is the pleasure you are giving your partner and the pleasure they are actively giving you.

    I can't see how forcing yourself onto a child who is vomiting from being drunk can involve any pleasure at all. It's just sadism. Or am I hopelessly starry eyed or maybe just lucky?
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    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Disturbing.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-40879427

    Credit to BBC for not soft-soaping it.

    25 "Asians"

    If I were a Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, Christian or atheist Asian I wouldn't be happy with that description
    If Roman Catholic immigrants were constantly gang raping young Asian girls in an Islamic country, I think I would find it unfair if the press of that country described the perpetrators as "Europeans", tarring Jews, Anglicans, atheists et al with the same brush. These "Asian" rapists who collude together in Northern towns rarely seem to come from Indian origin do they?
    The BBC article does give the national origins of the perpetrators.

    I find it utterly bewildering why any man would do what these men did. How can one possibly enjoy sex with a drugged drunk unwilling frightened child? How does one not feel disgusted at oneself?
    There is a scene in Marathon Man (book) that perhaps explains this.

    Babe is being tortured by Szell, the Nazi dentist, and asks him how he can do this to anyone. Szell thinks about it and replies that to him, Jews will never really seem human.

    It's that, I reckon.
    Thanks. That explains why the victim is treated in the way they are. It does not explain to me what enjoyment the man gets from such sex. Part of the enjoyment of sex is the pleasure you are giving your partner and the pleasure they are actively giving you.

    I can't see how forcing yourself onto a child who is vomiting from being drunk can involve any pleasure at all. It's just sadism. Or am I hopelessly starry eyed or maybe just lucky?
    I've no idea. I can imagine how they can stand to do it but not how they could find it pleasurable.
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    Scott_P said:

    Essexit said:

    as if people will actually believe it because it's repeated often enough.

    Surely if you want people to believe something that isn't true, just put it on the side of a bus...
    Today I saw a bus with 'Stagecoach' written on the side. Clearly that wasn't true, since it was a bus.
    LOL :)

    What's the favourite Indian dish on Tyneside?

    Pelaw Rice

    :lol:
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Disturbing.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-40879427

    Credit to BBC for not soft-soaping it.

    25 "Asians"

    If I were a Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, Christian or atheist Asian I wouldn't be happy with that description
    If Roman Catholic immigrants were constantly gang raping young Asian girls in an Islamic country, I think I would find it unfair if the press of that country described the perpetrators as "Europeans", tarring Jews, Anglicans, atheists et al with the same brush. These "Asian" rapists who collude together in Northern towns rarely seem to come from Indian origin do they?
    The BBC article does give the national origins of the perpetrators.

    I find it utterly bewildering why any man would do what these men did. How can one possibly enjoy sex with a drugged drunk unwilling frightened child? How does one not feel disgusted at oneself?
    There is a scene in Marathon Man (book) that perhaps explains this.

    Babe is being tortured by Szell, the Nazi dentist, and asks him how he can do this to anyone. Szell thinks about it and replies that to him, Jews will never really seem human.

    It's that, I reckon.
    Thanks. That explains why the victim is treated in the way they are. It does not explain to me what enjoyment the man gets from such sex. Part of the enjoyment of sex is the pleasure you are giving your partner and the pleasure they are actively giving you.

    I can't see how forcing yourself onto a child who is vomiting from being drunk can involve any pleasure at all. It's just sadism. Or am I hopelessly starry eyed or maybe just lucky?
    The key to understanding the motivation for rape is to understand its violent nature. While rape is defined by the sexual act, it is primarily an act of violence. There are any number of simpler and less risky ways of achieving male orgasm.

    Rape varies with context but is primarily an act of male power, generally from men who feel their maleness under threat. It is an act of violent social inadequates.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "The Isle of Skye is so overrun with tourists that police have now warned people not to come if they haven't booked somewhere to stay.

    Desperate visitors are using the local police force to help them find accommodation - but they say they cannot act as travel agents for hapless holidaymakers.

    Visitors are "regularly" arriving at the station with no hotel organised asking officers to help them find a bed for the night, Police Scotland said."

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/09/dont-come-skye-unless-have-room-night-say-police/
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    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956
    AndyJS said:

    "The Isle of Skye is so overrun with tourists that police have now warned people not to come if they haven't booked somewhere to stay.

    Desperate visitors are using the local police force to help them find accommodation - but they say they cannot act as travel agents for hapless holidaymakers.

    Visitors are "regularly" arriving at the station with no hotel organised asking officers to help them find a bed for the night, Police Scotland said."

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/09/dont-come-skye-unless-have-room-night-say-police/

    Skye's the limit.
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,955
    viewcode said:

    ...in cabinet terms losing Carrington...and having to promote Pym in exchange (who was not only a wet but hated her guts) could have weakened her control over the cabinet considerably had it not been for the personal popularity she gained following the war.

    As previously mentioned I'm plowing thru Max Hastings's books at the moment. One of them is 'Battle for the Falklands', co-authored with Simon Jenkins. Hastings makes the point that Carrington's resignation was ill-timed and selfish: it could have been easily left until after the war and made the PM's life more difficult than it needed to be at a time of great stress, forcing her to spend time (unsuccessfully) persuading him to stay on when she had far better things to do.
    That is a wonderful read! Eye-opening as to how close it was. Have just started "Catastrophe"...great so far.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,710
    Interesting article, Stodge. Galtieri invaded the Falklands to shore up his regime and ended up saving the government of his enemy. A point I hadn't really taken on board before. What ifs of history are never very profitable discussions but we can be fairly sure Thatcher's prospects of survival were poor without that war happening when it did.
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,732
    dixiedean said:

    viewcode said:

    ...in cabinet terms losing Carrington...and having to promote Pym in exchange (who was not only a wet but hated her guts) could have weakened her control over the cabinet considerably had it not been for the personal popularity she gained following the war.

    As previously mentioned I'm plowing thru Max Hastings's books at the moment. One of them is 'Battle for the Falklands', co-authored with Simon Jenkins. Hastings makes the point that Carrington's resignation was ill-timed and selfish: it could have been easily left until after the war and made the PM's life more difficult than it needed to be at a time of great stress, forcing her to spend time (unsuccessfully) persuading him to stay on when she had far better things to do.
    That is a wonderful read! Eye-opening as to how close it was. Have just started "Catastrophe"...great so far.
    Just wait until you get to "Armageddon" (Germany 1944-45). It's heartbreaking: at that point everybody had just given up all attempts at restraint and were just slaughtering left, right and centre, and by that time they were really good at it.
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,732
    Essexit said:

    viewcode said:

    Submitted without comment.

    * Essexit, 08:15pm 2017-08-09

    Essexit said:

    ...I spent months trying to be polite...

    * Essexit, 10:00pm 2017-08-09
    Essexit said:

    ...Remoaner...

    'Spent' - past tense.
    If so, a pity. People behave as they will, but ultimately one is in charge of oneself.
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,732

    Today I saw a bus with 'Stagecoach' written on the side. Clearly that wasn't true, since it was a bus.

    I saw a fire engine with "Dennis" on it. I checked. He was called Graham.

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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,955

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Disturbing.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-40879427

    Credit to BBC for not soft-soaping it.

    25 "Asians"

    If I were a Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, Christian or atheist Asian I wouldn't be happy with that description
    If Roman Catholic immigrants were constantly gang raping young Asian girls in an Islamic country, I think I would find it unfair if the press of that country described the perpetrators as "Europeans", tarring Jews, Anglicans, atheists et al with the same brush. These "Asian" rapists who collude together in Northern towns rarely seem to come from Indian origin do they?
    The BBC article does give the national origins of the perpetrators.

    I find it utterly bewildering why any man would do what these men did. How can one possibly enjoy sex with a drugged drunk unwilling frightened child? How does one not feel disgusted at oneself?
    There is a scene in Marathon Man (book) that perhaps explains this.

    Babe is being tortured by Szell, the Nazi dentist, and asks him how he can do this to anyone. Szell thinks about it and replies that to him, Jews will never really seem human.

    It's that, I reckon.
    Thanks. That explains why the victim is treated in the way they are. It does not explain to me what enjoyment the man gets from such sex. Part of the enjoyment of sex is the pleasure you are giving your partner and the pleasure they are actively giving you.

    I can't see how forcing yourself onto a child who is vomiting from being drunk can involve any pleasure at all. It's just sadism. Or am I hopelessly starry eyed or maybe just lucky?
    The key to understanding the motivation for rape is to understand its violent nature. While rape is defined by the sexual act, it is primarily an act of violence. There are any number of simpler and less risky ways of achieving male orgasm.

    Rape varies with context but is primarily an act of male power, generally from men who feel their maleness under threat. It is an act of violent social inadequates.
    +1.

    The men derive their pleasure not from the sex, but from the control, the dominance. They are imposing their will on an "other". The orgasm is an irrelevance.

    Makes me sad to be male.

    I would also point out that there are plenty of white men who behave like this. They tend not to group and organise to such an extent.

    My partner has worked with several of the Rotherham girls and reports that Police and other authorities show signs of having learned lessons in this case, and acted much better.


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    AndyJS said:

    "The Isle of Skye is so overrun with tourists that police have now warned people not to come if they haven't booked somewhere to stay.

    Desperate visitors are using the local police force to help them find accommodation - but they say they cannot act as travel agents for hapless holidaymakers.

    Visitors are "regularly" arriving at the station with no hotel organised asking officers to help them find a bed for the night, Police Scotland said."

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/09/dont-come-skye-unless-have-room-night-say-police/

    Skye? You need to Mull that one over.
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    viewcode said:

    Today I saw a bus with 'Stagecoach' written on the side. Clearly that wasn't true, since it was a bus.

    I saw a fire engine with "Dennis" on it. I checked. He was called Graham.

    "Humour. It is a difficult concept. It is not logical."
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,955

    AndyJS said:

    "The Isle of Skye is so overrun with tourists that police have now warned people not to come if they haven't booked somewhere to stay.

    Desperate visitors are using the local police force to help them find accommodation - but they say they cannot act as travel agents for hapless holidaymakers.

    Visitors are "regularly" arriving at the station with no hotel organised asking officers to help them find a bed for the night, Police Scotland said."

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/09/dont-come-skye-unless-have-room-night-say-police/

    Skye? You need to Mull that one over.
    It's a Rhum do....you'll end up with Eigg on your face!
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,814
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,732

    viewcode said:

    Today I saw a bus with 'Stagecoach' written on the side. Clearly that wasn't true, since it was a bus.

    I saw a fire engine with "Dennis" on it. I checked. He was called Graham.

    "Humour. It is a difficult concept. It is not logical."
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KRqeDEQcYk
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,955
    viewcode said:

    Today I saw a bus with 'Stagecoach' written on the side. Clearly that wasn't true, since it was a bus.

    I saw a fire engine with "Dennis" on it. I checked. He was called Graham.

    I saw a bus with "Megabus" written on it. It was only slightly bigger than your average bus.
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    dixiedean said:

    viewcode said:

    Today I saw a bus with 'Stagecoach' written on the side. Clearly that wasn't true, since it was a bus.

    I saw a fire engine with "Dennis" on it. I checked. He was called Graham.

    I saw a bus with "Megabus" written on it. It was only slightly bigger than your average bus.
    I saw a train with Grand Central written on it. But I was in Bradford, not New York :lol:
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,732
    edited August 2017
    dixiedean said:

    viewcode said:

    Today I saw a bus with 'Stagecoach' written on the side. Clearly that wasn't true, since it was a bus.

    I saw a fire engine with "Dennis" on it. I checked. He was called Graham.

    I saw a bus with "Megabus" written on it. It was only slightly bigger than your average bus.
    I looked at a bottle of squash. It had "concentrate" on it. So I looked at it really hard
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,055
    dixiedean said:

    viewcode said:

    Today I saw a bus with 'Stagecoach' written on the side. Clearly that wasn't true, since it was a bus.

    I saw a fire engine with "Dennis" on it. I checked. He was called Graham.

    I saw a bus with "Megabus" written on it. It was only slightly bigger than your average bus.
    Could you be more precise? How many of them do you think would fit in an Olympic swimming pool?
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Election news: Does anyone know what is the highest number of votes cast for a single candidate in a UK Parliamentary constituency ever ? Also highest majority.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    surbiton said:

    Election news: Does anyone know what is the highest number of votes cast for a single candidate in a UK Parliamentary constituency ever ? Also highest majority.

    Sir Cooper Rawson: 75,205 votes in Brighton in 1931. It was a 2 member division. Highest votes in a single member division: 69,762 — Reginald Blair in Hendon in 1935. Largest majority was also Rawson in 1931.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Christian Democrats and Free Democrats are running close to 50% combined in some of the latest opinion polls:

    http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/
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    JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    "UKIP worked because everyone knew what it stood for – a referendum on UK membership of the European Union in which UKIP would campaign for a vote to Leave."

    Not true. UKIP's main purpose was to get the UK out of the EU. Ideally, no referendum would be needed.
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    JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    The last time there was an attempt to create a self-important new centre party was when a couple of outgoing deselected former Conservative MSPs set up the "New Party", assuming that it was going to be a great new force in politics just because it had some MSPs in it. Within weeks it had promptly changed its name to the equally self-important and booliakterous "People's Alliance", before disappearing into a black hole of self-nincompoopism. The two names were of course quasi-fascist and quasi-communist respectively.

    The breathtaking arrogance of this week's proposal is that the proposer has the nerve to call it "The Democrats" despite advocating the imprisonment of its opponents and despite being based on a profoundly anti-democratic position.
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    JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    edited August 2017
    P.S. On checking Wikipedia, it seems that the two names were the other way round. The "Peoples Alliance" changed to become the "New Party". Any party calling itself the "New Party" is adopting an inherently ultra-silly name which is bound to become redundant and anachronistic within half an electoral cycle.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Party_(UK,_2003)
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    JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    New Thread!

    would be a slightly less silly name for a new party than "New Party" or "The Democrats" or "Self-Deluded Self-Important Popular People's New Democratic Change Renewal Alliance Rally Focus Alliance Movement Party"
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    MetatronMetatron Posts: 193
    The article is correct that the SDP were unlucky with the Falklands war.In retrospect the SDP were offering a ` better yesterday`.A difference with today is that the likes of George Osborne,David Milliband appeal is not remotely comparable with Roy Jenkins or Shirley Williams although possibly it is with David Owen.
    There is space for a new centre party as the fears of Britain crashing via the combination of a bad brexit followed by a Corbyn govt are real.For a new centre party to take off it would need someone with David Cameron`s personal charm but combined with patriotic seriousness.
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