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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,584
    GIN1138 said:
    I thought Rees Moog was supposed to be an intelligent man ?
    Aiming to reverse a democratic decision by democratic means is not exactly 'overturning democracy', however futile the effort.

    Hyperbolic bollocks I expect from Johnson; mildly disappointing from Mogg.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited August 2017
    Jeremy Corbyn has called on Donald Trump and Kim Jong-un to "ratchet down the rhetoric".

    As useful as a chocolate fireguard.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Nigelb said:

    GIN1138 said:
    I thought Rees Moog was supposed to be an intelligent man ?
    Aiming to reverse a democratic decision by democratic means is not exactly 'overturning democracy', however futile the effort.

    Hyperbolic bollocks I expect from Johnson; mildly disappointing from Mogg.
    Why? Jacob Rees-Mogg is Boris Johnson's mini-me.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,774
    @DavidL

    Your GDP bet with me is looking increasingly shaky. The NIESR estimate for GDP growth for the three months to end July dropped to 0.2%.
  • TonyETonyE Posts: 938
    "..the De Facto anti Brexit leader "

    I'm just looking for that Shark.......
  • Alice_AforethoughtAlice_Aforethought Posts: 772
    edited August 2017

    nielh said:

    nielh said:

    Something is obviously afoot with this 'new party' idea.

    I don't think this guy Chapmans interventions are working, he gets about 50 likes per tweet.

    With regard to ending Brexit: You can't just keep trying to rerun the referendum campaign: you have to wait for the people who voted leave to change their mind.

    And you do that by telling them they're stupid and ignorant for having done so.
    Yep. Totally counterproductive strategy. Fuels resentment against your side.

    No one sees armaggeddon unfolding as a result of Brexit.
    They will see the British political class crater because of it. At the end of the day people's opinions on the subject are irrelevant. Leaving the EU off the back of a weak mandate is simply beyond the strategic and political capacity of the British state and that's all there is to it.
    There should probably have been a higher threshold than a simple majority, exactly to reflect the risk that a messy or protracted process might later drop support for the result below 50% and thus undermine its original legitimacy. I wasn't of voting age in 73 or 75 so not sure if that was done then, however.

    I suppose the problem would be that a (for instance) 54% Leave result with a 55% threshold would mean we didn't Leave but a 54% Remain result would also have meant we didn't Leave. Leave would argue it was rigged to ensure we stayed. OTOH a 54% Leave result where we didn't then leave might actually have been quite handy to brandish around Brussels.

    IMO it probably should be harder to change than continue but it would be hard to sell.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Nigelb said:

    GIN1138 said:

    The Moggster has spoken

    twitter.com/Jacob_Rees_Mogg/status/895625039885746177

    I thought Rees Moog was supposed to be an intelligent man ?
    Aiming to reverse a democratic decision by democratic means is not exactly 'overturning democracy', however futile the effort.

    Hyperbolic bollocks I expect from Johnson; mildly disappointing from Mogg.
    If JRM disapproves then the new party has my backing.

    I do not believe that JRM is as bright as he sounds. Having read a brief bio of his careers to date it seems that his chief talent is making humourous speeches and not much else.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,584
    edited August 2017

    Nigelb said:

    GIN1138 said:
    I thought Rees Moog was supposed to be an intelligent man ?
    Aiming to reverse a democratic decision by democratic means is not exactly 'overturning democracy', however futile the effort.

    Hyperbolic bollocks I expect from Johnson; mildly disappointing from Mogg.
    Why? Jacob Rees-Mogg is Boris Johnson's mini-me.
    He's a bit of an arse who clearly fancies himself, but no, I don't think he's a Boris.
    More of a strangulated logic type than a bragging bufflehead.
  • Nigelb said:

    GIN1138 said:

    The Moggster has spoken

    twitter.com/Jacob_Rees_Mogg/status/895625039885746177

    I thought Rees Moog was supposed to be an intelligent man ?
    Aiming to reverse a democratic decision by democratic means is not exactly 'overturning democracy', however futile the effort.

    Hyperbolic bollocks I expect from Johnson; mildly disappointing from Mogg.
    If JRM disapproves then the new party has my backing.

    I do not believe that JRM is as bright as he sounds. Having read a brief bio of his careers to date it seems that his chief talent is making humourous speeches and not much else.
    He isn't as posh, either. He is nowhere near as posh as Wedgwood Benn or Tam Dalyell were, for example. In fact I'm not sure he's even as posh as Jeremy Corbyn, is he?
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    .... It was widely misquoted before then. I first heard it in the 90s paraphrased as "there are a billion Chinese - so what if we lose 50 million".

    I have never really understood the rationale for his saying such a thing, but suggestions above have been informative on the point.

    Perhaps he intended to lose the "right" 50 million. Some 50 millions may be more equal than others :)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789
    JRM's name is not down and he's not coming in.

    https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/895649628175183872
  • Just another normal day in our nation's capital....

    Three injured as 'unidentified substance' delivered to Borough Market restaurant
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,043
    Nigelb said:

    GIN1138 said:
    I thought Rees Moog was supposed to be an intelligent man ?
    Aiming to reverse a democratic decision by democratic means is not exactly 'overturning democracy', however futile the effort.

    Hyperbolic bollocks I expect from Johnson; mildly disappointing from Mogg.
    https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/895649628175183872
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,043
    I must say this Chappers chap has brightened up a dull August day!!!

  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    MJW said:

    Buried amid the obviously demob happy tweets showing the immense relief of someone now able to say they think their old employer is an incompetence ridden disaster area, there's a few of Chapman's tweets to ministers that make interesting reading. For example asking about whether the government planned to purchase swathes of land around the Kent crossings to cope with the backlog caused by extra checks and the customs border effectively moving to Dover. [snip].

    Our EU friends don't seem to be buying up land at ports either. Nor do they seem to be making any other preparations for a cliff-edge Brexit disaster.

    This might be because they are just as incompetent as some people say the UK government is. Or it might be that neither side is incompetent.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Pleased to see that nuclear war hasn't broken out yet.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyHSjv9gxlE
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,043

    Just another normal day in our nation's capital....

    Three injured as 'unidentified substance' delivered to Borough Market restaurant

    Dutch eggs?
  • Just another normal day in our nation's capital....

    Three injured as 'unidentified substance' delivered to Borough Market restaurant

    Dutch eggs?

    Just another normal day in our nation's capital....

    Three injured as 'unidentified substance' delivered to Borough Market restaurant

    Dutch eggs?
    Suspected acid attack.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,768

    Jeremy Corbyn has called on Donald Trump and Kim Jong-un to "ratchet down the rhetoric".

    As useful as a chocolate fireguard.

    Unfair, Mr Urquhart.

    You can eat a chocolate fireguard.
  • TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sean_F said:

    I don't think they could swiftly overrun SK. But, as you say, they may well think they can.

    I fear people are thinking too convrengths.
    Which is why this heralded Guam 'test' is so dangerous.
    Who is to say, if they actually launch those missiles, that one isn't set to go 'off target' and airburst a nuke to take out the US base ?
    What would the US response be - and might China threaten retaliation if the US detonated nukes near their borders... ??
    IMV China would be sh*t-scared if NK detonated a missile-borne nuke. Such a capability potentially threatens them as well as SK and the US, and makes their difficult relationship with NK even more difficult (at least from their perspective).
    "I’m not afraid of nuclear war. There are 2.7 billion people in the world; it doesn’t matter if some are killed. China has a population of 600 million; even if half of them are killed, there are still 300 million people left. I’m not afraid of anyone."
    The old joke:

    Chinese general, discussing losses vs the Japanese:

    Aide: It's bad General, the Japanese lost 50,000, but we lost a half a million troops.
    General: pretty soon, no more Japanese.
    Is that so different from some British Generals during WW1 ?
    Dick
    No, Peter.

    Problem?
    Your name couldn't be less of a problem for me.
    Sorry, I don't understand, Topping.

    You are an intelligent poster. Why have you resorted to name-calling, or am I missing something?
    In which case my turn to apologise; let me state the longer version of my initial response.

    I thought that comparing British WWI generals with a mythical Chinese general's view on the expendability of his own forces on the one hand, and the population disparity with his enemy on the other, was inappropriate not to say misguided (hence the response) in the extreme. The British generals didn't treat their own soldiers as cannon fodder to be used up in order to deplete the enemy. Equally, there was no great disparity between the size of forces in WW1.

    If yours was a lions led by donkeys point then I think there have been enough sensible revisionist WWI histories to disprove that view.
    Fair point, Topping, but why the abuse?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sean_F said:

    I don't think they could swiftly overrun SK. But, as you say, they may well think they can.

    I fear people are thinking too convrengths.
    Which is why this heralded Gers... ??
    IMV China would be sh*t-scared if NK detonated a missile-borne nuke. Such a capability potentially threatens them as well as SK and the US, and makes their difficult relationship with NK even more difficult (at least from their perspective).
    "I’m not afraid of nuclear war. There are 2.7 billion people in the world; it doesn’t matter if some are killed. China has a population of 600 million; even if half of them are killed, there are still 300 million people left. I’m not afraid of anyone."
    The old joke:

    Chinese general, discussing losses vs the Japanese:

    Aide: It's bad General, the Japanese lost 50,000, but we lost a half a million troops.
    General: pretty soon, no more Japanese.
    Is that so different from some British Generals during WW1 ?
    Dick
    No, Peter.

    Problem?
    Your name couldn't be less of a problem for me.
    Sorry, I don't understand, Topping.

    You are an intelligent poster. Why have you resorted to name-calling, or am I missing something?
    In which case my turn to apologise; let me state the longer version of my initial response.

    I thought that comparing British WWI generals with a mythical Chinese general's view on the expendability of his own forces on the one hand, and the population disparity with his enemy on the other, was inappropriate not to say misguided (hence the response) in the extreme. The British generals didn't treat their own soldiers as cannon fodder to be used up in order to deplete the enemy. Equally, there was no great disparity between the size of forces in WW1.

    If yours was a lions led by donkeys point then I think there have been enough sensible revisionist WWI histories to disprove that view.
    Fair point, Topping, but why the abuse?
    you can take the boy out of PB, but you can't...
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,881
    rcs1000 said:

    @DavidL

    Your GDP bet with me is looking increasingly shaky. The NIESR estimate for GDP growth for the three months to end July dropped to 0.2%.

    What were the terms?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,768
    TOPPING said:

    <
    I thought that comparing British WWI generals with a mythical Chinese general's view on the expendability of his own forces on the one hand, and the population disparity with his enemy on the other, was inappropriate not to say misguided (hence the response) in the extreme. The British generals didn't treat their own soldiers as cannon fodder to be used up in order to deplete the enemy. Equally, there was no great disparity between the size of forces in WW1.

    If yours was a lions led by donkeys point then I think there have been enough sensible revisionist WWI histories to disprove that view.

    Indeed, the remarkable sophistication and careful co-ordination of air and ground technology to smash the German army under the guidance of the likes of Monash, Currie and Byng is a great and not often told story of the First World War.

    However, the real difficulty was that between two very evenly matched opponents it took a long time for tactical developments to make a meaningful difference.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,774
    rkrkrk said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @DavidL

    Your GDP bet with me is looking increasingly shaky. The NIESR estimate for GDP growth for the three months to end July dropped to 0.2%.

    What were the terms?
    UK GDP growth in 2017 north of 1.5%, DavidL wins. South of 1.5%, rcs1000 wins.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,883

    Leaving the EU off the back of a weak mandate is simply beyond the strategic and political capacity of the British state and that's all there is to it.

    I think Corbyn/McDonnell would have a much a better chance of delivering something that was at least recognisable as Brexit to the average shitmuncher in the queue at Gregg's simply because they give less of a fuck about the economic carnage.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,768
    edited August 2017

    TOPPING said:

    (...)
    I thought that comparing British WWI generals with a mythical Chinese general's view on the expendability of his own forces on the one hand, and the population disparity with his enemy on the other, was inappropriate not to say misguided (hence the response) in the extreme. The British generals didn't treat their own soldiers as cannon fodder to be used up in order to deplete the enemy. Equally, there was no great disparity between the size of forces in WW1.

    If yours was a lions led by donkeys point then I think there have been enough sensible revisionist WWI histories to disprove that view.

    It wasn't actually a mythical Chinese general, it was Chairman Mao! Interestingly, that he said it at all was disputed on the left - for obvious reasons - until very recent times, until it was placed beyond doubt (by Chinese television broadcasting a recording of him saying it). It was widely misquoted before then. I first heard it in the 90s paraphrased as "there are a billion Chinese - so what if we lose 50 million".

    I have never really understood the rationale for his saying such a thing, but suggestions above have been informative on the point.
    Mao didn't care about people - only about himself and his own power.

    For example, as a peasant himself and with the precedent of the Soviet Union in the 1930s to guide him, he must have known what the effect of collectivisation and the Great Leap Forward would be. But he still went ahead and did them both because they consolidated his own power especially in the countryside.

    As for the Cultural Revolution there was no rhyme or reason whatsoever for it. On every level imaginable and in almost every conceivable way it was an utter disaster and totally unnecessary. But it did secure his power until his death.

    So it's the sort of thing I can absolutely imagine him saying and indeed doing. Khrushchev was quite right to call him 'the Asian Hitler.' Which is one reason why I am still baffled and more than a bit worried that some members of the shadow cabinet admire him so. It's more puzzling still that it's the only one who has a half-decent brain.
  • TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sean_F said:

    I don't think they could swiftly overrun SK. But, as you say, they may well think they can.

    I fear people are thinking too convrengths.
    Which is why this heralded Gers... ??
    IMV China would be sh*t-scared if NK detonated a missile-borne nuke. Such a capability potentially threatens them as well as SK and the US, and makes their difficult relationship with NK even more difficult (at least from their perspective).
    "I’m not afraid of nuclear war. There are 2.7 billion people in the world; it doesn’t matter if some are killed. China has a population of 600 million; even if half of them are killed, there are still 300 million people left. I’m not afraid of anyone."
    The old joke:

    Chinese general, discussing losses vs the Japanese:

    Aide: It's bad General, the Japanese lost 50,000, but we lost a half a million troops.
    General: pretty soon, no more Japanese.
    Is that so different from some British Generals during WW1 ?
    Dick
    No, Peter.

    Problem?
    Your name couldn't be less of a problem for me.
    Sorry, I don't understand, Topping.

    You are an intelligent poster. Why have you resorted to name-calling, or am I missing something?
    In which case my turn to apologise; let me state the longer version of my initial response.


    If yours was a lions led by donkeys point then I think there have been enough sensible revisionist WWI histories to disprove that view.
    Fair point, Topping, but why the abuse?
    you can take the boy out of PB, but you can't...
    Very funny, but as a general rule I try not to say on site anything I wouldn't happily say to someone's face, if only because I don't want to be thought the sort who is brave only behind the safety of his or her computer screen.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    edited August 2017

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sean_F said:

    I don't think they could swiftly overrun SK. But, as you say, they may well think they can.

    I fear people are thinking too convrengths.
    Which is why this heralded Gers... ??
    IMV China would be sh*t-scared if NK detonated a missile-borne nuke. Such a capability potentially threatens them as well as SK and the US, and makes their difficult relationship with NK even more difficult (at least from their perspective).
    "I’m not afraid of nuclear war. There are 2.7 billion people in the world; it doesn’t matter if some are killed. China has a population of 600 million; even if half of them are killed, there are still 300 million people left. I’m not afraid of anyone."
    The old joke:

    Chinese general, discussing losses vs the Japanese:

    Aide: It's bad General, the Japanese lost 50,000, but we lost a half a million troops.
    General: pretty soon, no more Japanese.
    Is that so different from some British Generals during WW1 ?
    Dick
    No, Peter.

    Problem?
    Your name couldn't be less of a problem for me.
    Sorry, I don't understand, Topping.

    You are an intelligent poster. Why have you resorted to name-calling, or am I missing something?
    In which case my turn to apologise; let me state the longer version of my initial response.


    If yours was a lions led by donkeys point then I think there have been enough sensible revisionist WWI histories to disprove that view.
    Fair point, Topping, but why the abuse?
    you can take the boy out of PB, but you can't...
    Very funny, but as a general rule I try not to say on site anything I wouldn't happily say to someone's face, if only because I don't want to be thought the sort who is brave only behind the safety of his or her computer screen.
    yeah I get that and it's a sensible enough rule of thumb but PB is an internet forum and different rules often apply (cf. Brexit conversations). Take it both as a rhetorical device, and also as shorthand for the longer explanation.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,584
    619 said:
    newyorker.com/humor is a bit of a clue...
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Topping, being civil or coarse is a choice to make. Things are more pleasant when people choose to be polite rather than insulting. There's no need to be horrid simply because others are. Civility is also acceptable on the internet.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,584

    ...Civility is also acceptable on the internet.

    And also has a certain shock value owing to its rarity, Mr.D. ?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    Mr. Topping, being civil or coarse is a choice to make. Things are more pleasant when people choose to be polite rather than insulting. There's no need to be horrid simply because others are. Civility is also acceptable on the internet.

    Good to hear your opinion, Morris.
  • TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sean_F said:

    I don't think they could swiftly overrun SK. But, as you say, they may well think they can.

    I fear people are thinking too convrengths.
    Which is why this heralded Gers... ??
    IMV China would be sh*t-scared if NK detonated a missile-borne nuke. Such a capability potentially threatens them as well as SK and the US, and makes their difficult relationship with NK even more difficult (at least from their perspective).
    d of anyone."
    The o more Japanese.
    Is that so different from some British Generals during WW1 ?
    Dick
    No, Peter.

    Problem?
    Your name couldn't be less of a problem for me.
    Sorry, I don't understand, Topping.

    You are an intelligent poster. Why have you resorted to name-calling, or am I missing something?
    In which case my turn to apologise; let me state the longer version of my initial response.


    If yours was a lions led by donkeys point then I think there have been enough sensible revisionist WWI histories to disprove that view.
    Fair point, Topping, but why the abuse?
    you can take the boy out of PB, but you can't...
    Very funny, but as a general rule I try not to say on site anything I wouldn't happily say to someone's face, if only because I don't want to be thought the sort who is brave only behind the safety of his or her computer screen.
    yeah I get that and it's a sensible enough rule of thumb but PB is an internet forum and different rules often apply (cf. Brexit conversations). Take it both as a rhetorical device, and also as shorthand for the longer explanation.

    That doyen of PB Posters, StJohn, once told me never to get annoyed about anything posted on a blog and it's good advice I have tried to follow over the years, but the standards are better on PB than most places, and in over a decade of visiting and posting here I've gathered a reasonably good feel for most of the characters that turn up.

    I was a bit disappointed, but maybe that says more about me than you.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,584
    Well that's OK, then:
    Pastor Robert Jeffress to Brody File: ‘God Has Given Trump Authority to Take Out Kim Jong Un’
    https://www1.cbn.com/thebrodyfile/archive/2017/08/08/just-in-to-brody-file-pastor-robert-jeffress-says-lsquo-god-has-given-trump-authority-to-take-out-kim-jong-un-rsquo
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sean_F said:

    I don't think they could swiftly overrun SK. But, as you say, they may well think they can.

    I fear people are thinking too convrengths.
    Which is why this heralded Gers... ??
    IMV China woulpective).
    d of anyone."
    The o more Japanese.
    Is als during WW1 ?
    Dick
    No, Peter.

    Problem?
    Your name couldn't be less of a problem for me.
    Sorry, I don't understand, Topping.

    You are an intelligent poster. Why have you resorted to name-calling, or am I missing something?
    In which case my turn to apologise; let me state the longer version of my initial response.


    If yours was a lions led by donkeys point then I think there have been enough sensible revisionist WWI histories to disprove that view.
    Fair point, Topping, but why the abuse?
    you can take the boy out of PB, but you can't...
    Very funny, but as a general be thought the sort who is brave only behind the safety of his or her computer screen.
    yeah I get that and it's a sensible enough rule of thumb but PB is an internet forum and different rules often apply (cf. Brexit conversations). Take it both as a rhetorical device, and also as shorthand for the longer explanation.

    That doyen of PB Posters, StJohn, once told me never to get annoyed about anything posted on a blog and it's good advice I have tried to follow over the years, but the standards are better on PB than most places, and in over a decade of visiting and posting here I've gathered a reasonably good feel for most of the characters that turn up.

    I was a bit disappointed, but maybe that says more about me than you.
    No it doesn't. It's my fault for not judging well enough each individual poster and for not realising that it was inappropriate for you. For some (and we know who they are) "dick" is but an amuse bouche before the feast ahead. For others there is no place for such rudeness.

    So I will apologise (again!) for my misjudgement.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    edited August 2017
    Mr. B, I was once astounded on Twitter to have a very civil disagreement with a total stranger over historical migration to Great Britain.

    Mind you, more recently I copped a lot of flak from people who managed to find offence in the idea books should be judged on quality and not the race/gender of the author. That was special.

    Edited extra bit: fair comment, Mr. Topping, that others sometimes go much further without censure.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sean_F said:

    I don't think they could swiftly overrun SK. But, as you say, they may well think they can.

    I fear people are thinking too convrengths.
    Which is why this heralded Gers... ??
    IMV China would be sh*t-scared if NK detonated a missile-borne nuke. Such a capability potentially threatens them as well as SK and the US, and makes their difficult relationship with NK even more difficult (at least from their perspective).
    "I’m not afraid of nuclear war. There are 2.7 billion people in the world; it doesn’t matter if some are killed. China has a population of 600 million; even if half of them are killed, there are still 300 million people left. I’m not afraid of anyone."
    The old joke:

    Chinese general, discussing losses vs the Japanese:

    Aide: It's bad General, the Japanese lost 50,000, but we lost a half a million troops.
    General: pretty soon, no more Japanese.
    Is that so different from some British Generals during WW1 ?
    Dick
    No, Peter.

    Problem?
    Your name couldn't be less of a problem for me.
    Sorry, I don't understand, Topping.

    You are an intelligent poster. Why have you resorted to name-calling, or am I missing something?
    In which case my turn to apologise; let me state the longer version of my initial response.


    If yours was a lions led by donkeys point then I think there have been enough sensible revisionist WWI histories to disprove that view.
    Fair point, Topping, but why the abuse?
    you can take the boy out of PB, but you can't...
    Very funny, but as a general rule I try not to say on site anything I wouldn't happily say to someone's face, if only because I don't want to be thought the sort who is brave only behind the safety of his or her computer screen.
    My problem with that test is that I'm fairly bolshy in person. So what I'd happily say to someone's face is rather more feisty than others might feel appropriate.

    StJohn's test is a good one.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    Mr. B, I was once astounded on Twitter to have a very civil disagreement with a total stranger over historical migration to Great Britain.

    Mind you, more recently I copped a lot of flak from people who managed to find offence in the idea books should be judged on quality and not the race/gender of the author. That was special.

    Edited extra bit: fair comment, Mr. Topping, that others sometimes go much further without censure.

    Some moons ago Morris I used to post on a martial arts chat room when every third exchange would result in a challenge to combat of some kind.

    (I think that Youtube comments also head that way - especially when the video posted is an eg. boxing/MMA/etc one).
  • TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sean_F said:

    I don't think they could swiftly overrun SK. But, as you say, they may well think they can.

    I fear people are thinking too convrengths.
    Which is why this heralded Gers... ??
    IMV China woulpective).
    d of anyone."
    The o more Japanese.
    Is als during WW1 ?
    Dick
    No, Peter.

    Problem?
    Your name couldn't be less of a problem for me.
    Sorry, I don't understand, Topping.

    You are an intelligent poster. Why have you resorted to name-calling, or am I missing something?
    In which case my turn to apologise; let me state the longer version of my initial response.


    If yours was a lions led by donkeys point then I think there have been enough sensible revisionist WWI histories to disprove that view.
    Fair point, Topping, but why the abuse?
    you can take the boy out of PB, but you can't...
    Very funny, but as a general be thought the sort who is brave only behind the safety of his or her computer screen.
    yeah I get that and it's a sensible enough rule of thumb but PB is an internet forum and different rules often apply (cf. Brexit conversations). Take it both as a rhetorical device, and also as shorthand for the longer explanation.

    T

    I was a bit disappointed, but maybe that says more about me than you.
    No it doesn't. It's my fault for not judging well enough each individual poster and for not realising that it was inappropriate for you. For some (and we know who they are) "dick" is but an amuse bouche before the feast ahead. For others there is no place for such rudeness.

    So I will apologise (again!) for my misjudgement.
    OK, let's kiss and make up. Apology accepted, and maybe I shouldn't be so touchy.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Topping, yeah, things vary a lot place to place. A forum I used to visit had a dedicated flame board. (I used to like writing things such as: "Your taste in fashion is ill-considered and your attractiveness is questionable.").
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    edited August 2017

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sean_F said:

    I don't think they could swiftly overrun SK. But, as you say, they may well think they can.

    I fear people are thinking too convrengths.
    Which is why this heralded Gers... ??
    IMV China woulpective).
    d of anyone."
    The o more Japanese.
    Is als during WW1 ?
    Dick
    No, Peter.

    Problem?
    Your name couldn't be less of a problem for me.
    Sorry, I don't understand, Topping.

    You are an intelligent poster. Why have you resorted to name-calling, or am I missing something?
    In which case my turn to apologise; let me state the longer version of my initial response.


    If yours was a lions led by donkeys point then I think there have been enough sensible revisionist WWI histories to disprove that view.
    Fair point, Topping, but why the abuse?
    you can take the boy out of PB, but you can't...
    Very funny, but as a general be thought the sort who is brave only behind the safety of his or her computer screen.
    yeah I get that and it's a sensible enough rule of thumb but PB is an internet forum and different rules often apply (cf. Brexit conversations). Take it both as a rhetorical device, and also as shorthand for the longer explanation.

    T

    I was a bit disappointed, but maybe that says more about me than you.
    No it doesn't. It's my fault for not judging well enough each individual poster and for not realising that it was inappropriate for you. For some (and we know who they are) "dick" is but an amuse bouche before the feast ahead. For others there is no place for such rudeness.

    So I will apologise (again!) for my misjudgement.
    OK, let's kiss and make up. Apology accepted, and maybe I shouldn't be so touchy.
    Fuck off

    Edit: kidding
  • TOPPING said:

    Mr. B, I was once astounded on Twitter to have a very civil disagreement with a total stranger over historical migration to Great Britain.

    Mind you, more recently I copped a lot of flak from people who managed to find offence in the idea books should be judged on quality and not the race/gender of the author. That was special.

    Edited extra bit: fair comment, Mr. Topping, that others sometimes go much further without censure.

    Some moons ago Morris I used to post on a martial arts chat room when every third exchange would result in a challenge to combat of some kind.

    (I think that Youtube comments also head that way - especially when the video posted is an eg. boxing/MMA/etc one).
    Actually, anything less would be disappointing.

    Does the annual meeting of the National Union of Bouncers have anyone on the doors?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,774
    Somehow, I doubt if James Chapman will be setting the Heather alight.
  • TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sean_F said:

    I don't think they could swiftly overrun SK. But, as you say, they may well think they can.

    I fear people are thinking too convrengths.
    Which is why this heralded Gers... ??
    IMV China woulpective).
    d of anyone."
    The o more Japanese.
    Is als during WW1 ?
    Dick
    No, Peter.

    Problem?
    Your name couldn't be less of a problem for me.
    Sorry, I don't understand, Topping.

    You are an intelligent poster. Why have you resorted to name-calling, or am I missing something?
    In which case my turn to apologise; let me state the longer version of my initial response.


    If yours was a lions led by donkeys point then I think there have been enough sensible revisionist WWI histories to disprove that view.
    Fair point, Topping, but why the abuse?
    you can take the boy out of PB, but you can't...
    Very funny, but as a general be thought the sort who is brave only behind the safety of his or her computer screen.
    yeah I ge and different rules often apply (cf. Brexit conversations). Take it both as a rhetorical device, and also as shorthand for the longer explanation.

    T

    I was a bit disappointed, but maybe that says more about me than you.
    No it doesn't. It's my fault for not judging well enough each individual poster and for not realising that it was inappropriate for you. For some (and we know who they are) "dick" is but an amuse bouche before the feast ahead. For others there is no place for such rudeness.

    So I will apologise (again!) for my misjudgement.
    OK, let's kiss and make up. Apology accepted, and maybe I shouldn't be so touchy.
    Fuck off

    Edit: kidding
    :-)

    The edit wasn't necessary. I'm not that bloody touchy!
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    .... It was widely misquoted before then. I first heard it in the 90s paraphrased as "there are a billion Chinese - so what if we lose 50 million".

    I have never really understood the rationale for his saying such a thing, but suggestions above have been informative on the point.

    Perhaps he intended to lose the "right" 50 million. Some 50 millions may be more equal than others :)
    Look at the high level of casualties among the Ulster Volunteers on the Somme before you make cracks like that...
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    .

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sean_F said:

    I don't think they could swiftly overrun SK. But, as you say, they may well think they can.

    I fear people are thinking too convrengths.
    Which is why this heralded Gers... ??
    IMV China woulpective).
    d of anyone."
    The o more Japanese.
    IW1 ?
    Dick
    No, Peter.

    Problem?
    Your name couldn't be less of a problem for me.
    Sorry, I don't understand, Topping.

    You are an intelligent poster. Why have you resorted to name-calling, or am I missing something?
    In which case my turn to apologise; let me state the longer version of my initial response.


    If yours was a lions led by donkeys point then I think there have been enough sensible revisionist WWI histories to disprove that view.
    Fair point, Topping, but why the abuse?
    you can take the boy out of PB, but you can't...
    Very funny, but as a general be thought the sort who is brave only behind the safety of his or her computer screen.
    yeah I ge and different rules often apply (cf. Brexit conversations). Take it both as a rhetorical device, and also as shorthand for the longer explanation.

    T

    I was a bit disappointed, but maybe that says more about me than you.
    No it doesn't. It's my fault for not judging well enough each individual poster and for not realising that it was inappropriate for you. For some (and we know who they are) "dick" is but an amuse bouche before the feast ahead. For others there is no place for such rudeness.

    So I will apologise (again!) for my misjudgement.
    OK, let's kiss and make up. Apology accepted, and maybe I shouldn't be so touchy.
    Fuck off

    Edit: kidding
    :-)

    The edit wasn't necessary. I'm not that bloody touchy!
    LOL!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,774



    My problem with that test is that I'm fairly bolshy in person. So what I'd happily say to someone's face is rather more feisty than others might feel appropriate.

    StJohn's test is a good one.

    Hmmmm. While I've never met you, I have a friend who knows you professionally. And I'm afraid she has nothing but good things to say about you.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Politeness prevents me from saying "I told you so".

    There will be no BREXIT. Period. Wait for an Act of Parliament for another referendum and then Brits will vote 55 - 45 to stay IN.

    We will need a new bonfire night to burn the effigy of Farage.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Sean_F said:

    Somehow, I doubt if James Chapman will be setting the Heather alight.

    Superb riposte to Isabel "Pig's head" Oakeshott.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Surbiton, full stop*. Honestly.

    Also, if you do believe that then there's probably a market or two you could find to make some cash on it. I don't think it's impossible but do think it's unlikely.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    rcs1000 said:



    My problem with that test is that I'm fairly bolshy in person. So what I'd happily say to someone's face is rather more feisty than others might feel appropriate.

    StJohn's test is a good one.

    Hmmmm. While I've never met you, I have a friend who knows you professionally. And I'm afraid she has nothing but good things to say about you.
    Now Mr Meeks has to reduce his charge-out rate. He has turned out to be polite.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited August 2017
    rcs1000 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @DavidL

    Your GDP bet with me is looking increasingly shaky. The NIESR estimate for GDP growth for the three months to end July dropped to 0.2%.

    What were the terms?
    UK GDP growth in 2017 north of 1.5%, DavidL wins. South of 1.5%, rcs1000 wins.
    rcs can book his holiday now. It would not surprise me if Q3 and Q4 turns out to be two negative quarters.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,774
    surbiton said:

    Politeness prevents me from saying "I told you so".

    There will be no BREXIT. Period. Wait for an Act of Parliament for another referendum and then Brits will vote 55 - 45 to stay IN.

    We will need a new bonfire night to burn the effigy of Farage.

    How do you know this to be a fact?
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921
    edited August 2017
    surbiton said:

    Politeness prevents me from saying "I told you so".

    There will be no BREXIT. Period. Wait for an Act of Parliament for another referendum and then Brits will vote 55 - 45 to stay IN.

    We will need a new bonfire night to burn the effigy of Farage.

    Nether the time nor the votes for an act of Parliament.

    We're leaving. Tick took.

    P.s. Do keep posting such hilarious assertions. Each time someone vocally doesn't accept the result of the vote another few people back Brexit.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    surbiton said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @DavidL

    Your GDP bet with me is looking increasingly shaky. The NIESR estimate for GDP growth for the three months to end July dropped to 0.2%.

    What were the terms?
    UK GDP growth in 2017 north of 1.5%, DavidL wins. South of 1.5%, rcs1000 wins.
    rcs can book his holiday now. It would not surprise me if Q3 and Q4 turns out to be two negative quarters.
    I agree. Looking at orders at work, the recession has started.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    edited August 2017
    Charles said:

    .... It was widely misquoted before then. I first heard it in the 90s paraphrased as "there are a billion Chinese - so what if we lose 50 million".

    I have never really understood the rationale for his saying such a thing, but suggestions above have been informative on the point.

    Perhaps he intended to lose the "right" 50 million. Some 50 millions may be more equal than others :)
    Look at the high level of casualties among the Ulster Volunteers on the Somme before you make cracks like that...
    Why? what should I know?

    My great-uncle was one of them. His name is on a memorial in Belgium. He was 17.

    [Edit: He died in 1917, he was 20]
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540

    MJW said:

    Buried amid the obviously demob happy tweets showing the immense relief of someone now able to say they think their old employer is an incompetence ridden disaster area, there's a few of Chapman's tweets to ministers that make interesting reading. For example asking about whether the government planned to purchase swathes of land around the Kent crossings to cope with the backlog caused by extra checks and the customs border effectively moving to Dover. [snip].

    Our EU friends don't seem to be buying up land at ports either. Nor do they seem to be making any other preparations for a cliff-edge Brexit disaster.

    This might be because they are just as incompetent as some people say the UK government is. Or it might be that neither side is incompetent.
    Given the UK's substantial balance of trade deficit in goods with the EU they will need substantially more lorry parking space on their side of the Channel.......
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    Sean_F said:

    surbiton said:

    Politeness prevents me from saying "I told you so".

    There will be no BREXIT. Period. Wait for an Act of Parliament for another referendum and then Brits will vote 55 - 45 to stay IN.

    We will need a new bonfire night to burn the effigy of Farage.

    How do you know this to be a fact?
    It's the good natured humility of the Remoaners that will swing it.....
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    I wonder if this was the answer Baroness Kennedy was expecting:

    I thought it might also be useful to include some information on the gender makeup of the department as a whole, as each member of the department is key to making the UK’s exit a success. As of 31 July 2017, women make up approximately 52 percent of the department’s workforce and men 48 percent.

    http://www.parliament.uk/documents/lords-committees/eu-select/Correspondence-2017-19/09-08-17-Letter-from-David-Davis-MP.pdf
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    surbiton said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @DavidL

    Your GDP bet with me is looking increasingly shaky. The NIESR estimate for GDP growth for the three months to end July dropped to 0.2%.

    What were the terms?
    UK GDP growth in 2017 north of 1.5%, DavidL wins. South of 1.5%, rcs1000 wins.
    It would not surprise me if Q3 and Q4 turns out to be two negative quarters.
    You are Vince Cable and I claim my 5p........
  • surbiton said:

    rcs1000 said:



    My problem with that test is that I'm fairly bolshy in person. So what I'd happily say to someone's face is rather more feisty than others might feel appropriate.

    StJohn's test is a good one.

    Hmmmm. While I've never met you, I have a friend who knows you professionally. And I'm afraid she has nothing but good things to say about you.
    Now Mr Meeks has to reduce his charge-out rate. He has turned out to be polite.
    Yes, I've met him, and he's nowhere near as 'bolshie' as me.....although I do set the bar pretty high.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    During the negotiating round it also emerged that the EU would not be maintaining the existing voting rights for UK nationals living in the EU.

    We have made it clear that we stand ready to protect the rights of EU nationals living in the UK to stand and vote in municipal elections.


    http://www.parliament.uk/documents/lords-committees/eu-select/Correspondence-2017-19/09-08-17-Letter-from-David-Davis-MP.pdf
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    The EU has also confirmed that their offer only guarantees residence rights in the Member State in which a British national was resident at the point of our exit from the EU. It does not guarantee the holder of those residence rights any right to onward movement within the EU, for example to work or study in a neighbouring Member State. We have questioned whether this is consistent with the principle of reciprocity, and also with the Commission’s desire to protect rights currently enjoyed under EU law.

    I recall the howls of outrage in the Guardian....along with the revulsion at disenfranchisement of UK residents.....
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    Iain Martin:

    What will the new party be called? Hmmmm… James suggests the Democrats, but there are already the unsuccessful US Democrats. And there are the UK Liberal Democrats, who stood at the election to limited effect on a platform of overturning Brexit and branding us Brexiteers as idiots. How about the Chapman faction combining forces with what is left of the Liberal Democrats? Why not copy the Corbynistas and launch a radical anti-Brexit grassroots entryist drive to penetrate the Lib Dems?

    This new movement could be called “Lack of Momentum.”


    https://reaction.life/worried-james-chapman/
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,774

    During the negotiating round it also emerged that the EU would not be maintaining the existing voting rights for UK nationals living in the EU.

    We have made it clear that we stand ready to protect the rights of EU nationals living in the UK to stand and vote in municipal elections.


    http://www.parliament.uk/documents/lords-committees/eu-select/Correspondence-2017-19/09-08-17-Letter-from-David-Davis-MP.pdf

    We were accused of disenfranchising EU nationals living here. It looks as if the reverse is true.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,043

    Iain Martin:

    What will the new party be called? Hmmmm… James suggests the Democrats, but there are already the unsuccessful US Democrats. And there are the UK Liberal Democrats, who stood at the election to limited effect on a platform of overturning Brexit and branding us Brexiteers as idiots. How about the Chapman faction combining forces with what is left of the Liberal Democrats? Why not copy the Corbynistas and launch a radical anti-Brexit grassroots entryist drive to penetrate the Lib Dems?

    This new movement could be called “Lack of Momentum.”


    https://reaction.life/worried-james-chapman/

    https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/895676342947196928
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. F, quite.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,043
    NEW THREAD
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Jonathan said:

    PB brains trust...

    Is this NK standoff genuinely dangerous? What's the probability of action. Lots of hype in press makes it hard to judge.

    Odds against still. But possible..
This discussion has been closed.