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  • WinstanleyWinstanley Posts: 434

    and another one:

    https://twitter.com/NewUKDemocrat

    Meanwhile Chappers is outlining his new party's policies.

    All schools to be free schools, VAT on private education, pension reforms, HoL reform, PR for commons etc etc

    James Chapman is clearly having a lot of fun on holiday. There is potentially a gap in the market for a new political party. But it's not an anti-Brexit gap. The gap for a new political party is for one that makes its top priority the welfare of the British people, as opposed to Brexit delusions or a socialist fantasy.

    Yeah, it's just that simple. Let's get everybody with a political science degree and they can tell us what rational policies are and we'll just do them. Why hasn't anybody thought of that before? The Journalists' Party!

    Reminded of Lenin: ‘You imbeciles, braggarts, idiots, you think that history is made in drawing-rooms where upstart democrats fraternize with titled liberals … Imbeciles, braggarts, idiots! History is made in the trenches where the soldier, possessed by the nightmare of war-madness, plunges his bayonet into the officer’s stomach and then, clinging like grim death to the buffers of a train carriage, escapes to his native village there to set on fire his landlord’s manor.’

    (Good opportunity to repost this: https://i.imgur.com/icZ129g.png)

    Given the current choice of the Nitwits (Left) Party and the Nitwits (Right) Party, the Journalists Party sounds appealing.
    Constantly making confident predictions about political events on the basis that they're experts, and constantly baffled when they're wrong. https://youtu.be/hQlhRaXO110?t=422
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    The current warming is miniscule compared to the warming around 11,600 years ago.

    Indeed, and that one reduced our ancestors to living in caves and mud huts. There is no trace of their previous high-technology civilisation :D
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    It looks like shades of 1978 in Birmingham at the moment with rubbish piled up in the streets due to a strike.

    Does it look better or worse than usual?
    Surely it has to be an improvement?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,774

    Does anyone here understand Bitcoin?

    How is it not a Ponzi scheme?

    Err: because the number of Bitcoins in issue rises ever more slowly, until it peaks at 21 million. In a Ponzi scheme, the rate of growth has to be exponential to ensure enough money is flowing in.

    Ultimately, Bitcoin is a free market, with the price set by people's actual transactions. In a Ponzi scheme, the amount in the "fund" is not what it is indicated to be. In other words, it is a central promoter who decrees what it is worth.

    Now, will people continue to value BTC in the future? I have no idea. Nevertheless, what is a currency, but something who's scarcity is guaranteed?
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,949
    rcs1000 said:

    Does anyone here understand Bitcoin?

    How is it not a Ponzi scheme?

    Err: because the number of Bitcoins in issue rises ever more slowly, until it peaks at 21 million. In a Ponzi scheme, the rate of growth has to be exponential to ensure enough money is flowing in.

    Ultimately, Bitcoin is a free market, with the price set by people's actual transactions. In a Ponzi scheme, the amount in the "fund" is not what it is indicated to be. In other words, it is a central promoter who decrees what it is worth.

    Now, will people continue to value BTC in the future? I have no idea. Nevertheless, what is a currency, but something who's scarcity is guaranteed?
    Indeed. The question isn't whether Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme, the question is whether it is a bubble.
  • and another one:

    https://twitter.com/NewUKDemocrat

    Meanwhile Chappers is outlining his new party's policies.

    All schools to be free schools, VAT on private education, pension reforms, HoL reform, PR for commons etc etc

    So... basically Lib Dems/Green/New Labour.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Does anyone here understand Bitcoin?

    How is it not a Ponzi scheme?

    Err: because the number of Bitcoins in issue rises ever more slowly, until it peaks at 21 million. In a Ponzi scheme, the rate of growth has to be exponential to ensure enough money is flowing in.

    Ultimately, Bitcoin is a free market, with the price set by people's actual transactions. In a Ponzi scheme, the amount in the "fund" is not what it is indicated to be. In other words, it is a central promoter who decrees what it is worth.

    Now, will people continue to value BTC in the future? I have no idea. Nevertheless, what is a currency, but something who's scarcity is guaranteed?
    Thanks. But why actually is a bitcoin worth anything? Why is it different from, say, a tulip in the 18th century or an orchid in the late nineteenth?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    It looks like shades of 1978 in Birmingham at the moment with rubbish piled up in the streets due to a strike.

    Does it look better or worse than usual?
    I believe the strike has resulted in millions of pounds of improvements.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    rcs1000 said:

    Does anyone here understand Bitcoin?

    How is it not a Ponzi scheme?

    Err: because the number of Bitcoins in issue rises ever more slowly, until it peaks at 21 million. In a Ponzi scheme, the rate of growth has to be exponential to ensure enough money is flowing in.

    Ultimately, Bitcoin is a free market, with the price set by people's actual transactions. In a Ponzi scheme, the amount in the "fund" is not what it is indicated to be. In other words, it is a central promoter who decrees what it is worth.

    Now, will people continue to value BTC in the future? I have no idea. Nevertheless, what is a currency, but something who's scarcity is guaranteed?
    Thanks. But why actually is a bitcoin worth anything? Why is it different from, say, a tulip in the 18th century or an orchid in the late nineteenth?
    or a 10 pound note issued by the Bank of England ?
  • TGOHF said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Does anyone here understand Bitcoin?

    How is it not a Ponzi scheme?

    Err: because the number of Bitcoins in issue rises ever more slowly, until it peaks at 21 million. In a Ponzi scheme, the rate of growth has to be exponential to ensure enough money is flowing in.

    Ultimately, Bitcoin is a free market, with the price set by people's actual transactions. In a Ponzi scheme, the amount in the "fund" is not what it is indicated to be. In other words, it is a central promoter who decrees what it is worth.

    Now, will people continue to value BTC in the future? I have no idea. Nevertheless, what is a currency, but something who's scarcity is guaranteed?
    Thanks. But why actually is a bitcoin worth anything? Why is it different from, say, a tulip in the 18th century or an orchid in the late nineteenth?
    or a 10 pound note issued by the Bank of England ?
    A tenner can be exchanged for things, and is useful to the person you give it to, because they can exchange it for things. Is this true of a Bitcoin?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Does anyone here understand Bitcoin?

    How is it not a Ponzi scheme?

    Err: because the number of Bitcoins in issue rises ever more slowly, until it peaks at 21 million. In a Ponzi scheme, the rate of growth has to be exponential to ensure enough money is flowing in.

    Ultimately, Bitcoin is a free market, with the price set by people's actual transactions. In a Ponzi scheme, the amount in the "fund" is not what it is indicated to be. In other words, it is a central promoter who decrees what it is worth.

    Now, will people continue to value BTC in the future? I have no idea. Nevertheless, what is a currency, but something who's scarcity is guaranteed?
    Thanks. But why actually is a bitcoin worth anything? Why is it different from, say, a tulip in the 18th century or an orchid in the late nineteenth?
    or a 10 pound note issued by the Bank of England ?
    A tenner can be exchanged for things, and is useful to the person you give it to, because they can exchange it for things. Is this true of a Bitcoin?
    Yes.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,774

    rcs1000 said:

    Does anyone here understand Bitcoin?

    How is it not a Ponzi scheme?

    Err: because the number of Bitcoins in issue rises ever more slowly, until it peaks at 21 million. In a Ponzi scheme, the rate of growth has to be exponential to ensure enough money is flowing in.

    Ultimately, Bitcoin is a free market, with the price set by people's actual transactions. In a Ponzi scheme, the amount in the "fund" is not what it is indicated to be. In other words, it is a central promoter who decrees what it is worth.

    Now, will people continue to value BTC in the future? I have no idea. Nevertheless, what is a currency, but something who's scarcity is guaranteed?
    Thanks. But why actually is a bitcoin worth anything? Why is it different from, say, a tulip in the 18th century or an orchid in the late nineteenth?
    It's worth something because its scarcity is guaranteed.

    OK. Think about why a non-governmental currency would be useful - especially if it could be transferred pseudonymously. If you lived in a country with exchange controls, you could find someone who'd sell you Bitcoins, and in that way you could get money out the country. If your government is hell bent on devaluaing the currency, keeping your money in BTC looks pretty attractive. Finally, Bitcoin (when combined with Tor) is used to buy and sell drugs. If you're a drug dealer, instead of having a stack of twenty pound notes in your apartment, with all the attendant risks, you have a Bitcoin wallet. If you're a buyer, you can pseudonymously send money.

    Unless the government is able to clamp down on dark markets (or legalises drugs), then there will be a demand for a non government currency which can be transferred pseudonymously .

    BTC - while not perfect - fills that hole currently.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,774

    TGOHF said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Does anyone here understand Bitcoin?

    How is it not a Ponzi scheme?

    Err: because the number of Bitcoins in issue rises ever more slowly, until it peaks at 21 million. In a Ponzi scheme, the rate of growth has to be exponential to ensure enough money is flowing in.

    Ultimately, Bitcoin is a free market, with the price set by people's actual transactions. In a Ponzi scheme, the amount in the "fund" is not what it is indicated to be. In other words, it is a central promoter who decrees what it is worth.

    Now, will people continue to value BTC in the future? I have no idea. Nevertheless, what is a currency, but something who's scarcity is guaranteed?
    Thanks. But why actually is a bitcoin worth anything? Why is it different from, say, a tulip in the 18th century or an orchid in the late nineteenth?
    or a 10 pound note issued by the Bank of England ?
    A tenner can be exchanged for things, and is useful to the person you give it to, because they can exchange it for things. Is this true of a Bitcoin?
    So long as the thing you want is illegal, then yes.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    and another one:

    https://twitter.com/NewUKDemocrat

    Meanwhile Chappers is outlining his new party's policies.

    All schools to be free schools, VAT on private education, pension reforms, HoL reform, PR for commons etc etc

    James Chapman is clearly having a lot of fun on holiday. There is potentially a gap in the market for a new political party. But it's not an anti-Brexit gap. The gap for a new political party is for one that makes its top priority the welfare of the British people, as opposed to Brexit delusions or a socialist fantasy.

    Yeah, it's just that simple. Let's get everybody with a political science degree and they can tell us what rational policies are and we'll just do them. Why hasn't anybody thought of that before? The Journalists' Party!

    Reminded of Lenin: ‘You imbeciles, braggarts, idiots, you think that history is made in drawing-rooms where upstart democrats fraternize with titled liberals … Imbeciles, braggarts, idiots! History is made in the trenches where the soldier, possessed by the nightmare of war-madness, plunges his bayonet into the officer’s stomach and then, clinging like grim death to the buffers of a train carriage, escapes to his native village there to set on fire his landlord’s manor.’

    (Good opportunity to repost this: https://i.imgur.com/icZ129g.png)

    Not sure if I would prefer imbeciles, braggarts and idiots; or fruitcakes, loonies, and closet racists.

    Tough call.
  • WinstanleyWinstanley Posts: 434
    TOPPING said:

    and another one:

    https://twitter.com/NewUKDemocrat

    Meanwhile Chappers is outlining his new party's policies.

    All schools to be free schools, VAT on private education, pension reforms, HoL reform, PR for commons etc etc

    James Chapman is clearly having a lot of fun on holiday. There is potentially a gap in the market for a new political party. But it's not an anti-Brexit gap. The gap for a new political party is for one that makes its top priority the welfare of the British people, as opposed to Brexit delusions or a socialist fantasy.

    Yeah, it's just that simple. Let's get everybody with a political science degree and they can tell us what rational policies are and we'll just do them. Why hasn't anybody thought of that before? The Journalists' Party!

    Reminded of Lenin: ‘You imbeciles, braggarts, idiots, you think that history is made in drawing-rooms where upstart democrats fraternize with titled liberals … Imbeciles, braggarts, idiots! History is made in the trenches where the soldier, possessed by the nightmare of war-madness, plunges his bayonet into the officer’s stomach and then, clinging like grim death to the buffers of a train carriage, escapes to his native village there to set on fire his landlord’s manor.’

    (Good opportunity to repost this: https://i.imgur.com/icZ129g.png)

    Not sure if I would prefer imbeciles, braggarts and idiots; or fruitcakes, loonies, and closet racists.

    Tough call.
    Luckily for us we don't have to choose between them, there's more than enough of every category to go round
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,584
    edited August 2017
    rcs1000 said:

    Does anyone here understand Bitcoin?

    How is it not a Ponzi scheme?

    Err: because the number of Bitcoins in issue rises ever more slowly, until it peaks at 21 million. In a Ponzi scheme, the rate of growth has to be exponential to ensure enough money is flowing in.

    Ultimately, Bitcoin is a free market, with the price set by people's actual transactions. In a Ponzi scheme, the amount in the "fund" is not what it is indicated to be. In other words, it is a central promoter who decrees what it is worth.

    Now, will people continue to value BTC in the future? I have no idea. Nevertheless, what is a currency, but something who's scarcity is guaranteed?
    A recent, brief Bloomberg article which addresses the question:
    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-08-09/you-re-gonna-need-a-bigger-virtual-wallet

    (edit)
    The take home conclusion:
    "Not long ago, we thought we knew what money was, but now it’s becoming so strange and diverse that the actual practice of money is outracing anything found in economic theory or in the law...."
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited August 2017
    rcs1000 said:

    Does anyone here understand Bitcoin?

    How is it not a Ponzi scheme?

    Err: because the number of Bitcoins in issue rises ever more slowly, until it peaks at 21 million. In a Ponzi scheme, the rate of growth has to be exponential to ensure enough money is flowing in.

    Ultimately, Bitcoin is a free market, with the price set by people's actual transactions. In a Ponzi scheme, the amount in the "fund" is not what it is indicated to be. In other words, it is a central promoter who decrees what it is worth.

    Now, will people continue to value BTC in the future? I have no idea. Nevertheless, what is a currency, but something who's scarcity is guaranteed?
    There are strong allegations that the is a serious issue with this not being true. There is one individual or group who has vast bitcoin resources and on various trading platforms who are spoofing orders (an illegal practice on the "real" markets) and washing and as a result are price setting.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    TOPPING said:

    and another one:

    https://twitter.com/NewUKDemocrat

    Meanwhile Chappers is outlining his new party's policies.

    All schools to be free schools, VAT on private education, pension reforms, HoL reform, PR for commons etc etc

    James Chapman is clearly having a lot of fun on holiday. There is potentially a gap in the market for a new political party. But it's not an anti-Brexit gap. The gap for a new political party is for one that makes its top priority the welfare of the British people, as opposed to Brexit delusions or a socialist fantasy.

    Yeah, it's just that simple. Let's get everybody with a political science degree and they can tell us what rational policies are and we'll just do them. Why hasn't anybody thought of that before? The Journalists' Party!

    Reminded of Lenin: ‘You imbeciles, braggarts, idiots, you think that history is made in drawing-rooms where upstart democrats fraternize with titled liberals … Imbeciles, braggarts, idiots! History is made in the trenches where the soldier, possessed by the nightmare of war-madness, plunges his bayonet into the officer’s stomach and then, clinging like grim death to the buffers of a train carriage, escapes to his native village there to set on fire his landlord’s manor.’

    (Good opportunity to repost this: https://i.imgur.com/icZ129g.png)

    Not sure if I would prefer imbeciles, braggarts and idiots; or fruitcakes, loonies, and closet racists.

    Tough call.
    Luckily for us we don't have to choose between them, there's more than enough of every category to go round
    A frequently-heard refrain on the doorstep was how the Cons had UKIPised. Now, one cosmopolitan, central London, Remaining, super-marginal constituency does not a broad electorate make. But it was certainly a factor nationally, I would have thought.
  • Allan said:

    I wonder why there would be a slump in £4m house sales following that massive increase in stamp duty by Osborne last year?

    Does the news paper mention that factor? Estate agents do!

    (unable to access Evening Std online).


    Stamp Duty may be a factor.

    I suspect a slight pull back from the insane real estate price mania in London is more of a factor. Long way to go however before ordinary folk can afford housing in that part of the world.
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138

    and another one:
    https://twitter.com/NewUKDemocrat
    Meanwhile Chappers is outlining his new party's policies.
    All schools to be free schools, VAT on private education, pension reforms, HoL reform, PR for commons etc etc

    So... basically Lib Dems/Green/New Labour.
    Hardly, Mr Blue. So-called "free schools" are elitist institutions, funded by the general public and manged by otherwise unemployable offspring of the Conservative establishment - who are on enormous salaries, of course.

    I think he is trying to attract Conservatives who are not sufficiently talented to serve in Mrs May`s Cabinet.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    PClipp said:

    and another one:
    https://twitter.com/NewUKDemocrat
    Meanwhile Chappers is outlining his new party's policies.
    All schools to be free schools, VAT on private education, pension reforms, HoL reform, PR for commons etc etc

    So... basically Lib Dems/Green/New Labour.
    Hardly, Mr Blue. So-called "free schools" are elitist institutions, funded by the general public and manged by otherwise unemployable offspring of the Conservative establishment - who are on enormous salaries, of course.

    I think he is trying to attract Conservatives who are not sufficiently talented to serve in Mrs May`s Cabinet.
    Where does enormous salary start?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,774

    rcs1000 said:

    Does anyone here understand Bitcoin?

    How is it not a Ponzi scheme?

    Err: because the number of Bitcoins in issue rises ever more slowly, until it peaks at 21 million. In a Ponzi scheme, the rate of growth has to be exponential to ensure enough money is flowing in.

    Ultimately, Bitcoin is a free market, with the price set by people's actual transactions. In a Ponzi scheme, the amount in the "fund" is not what it is indicated to be. In other words, it is a central promoter who decrees what it is worth.

    Now, will people continue to value BTC in the future? I have no idea. Nevertheless, what is a currency, but something who's scarcity is guaranteed?
    There are strong allegations that the is a serious issue with this not being true. There is one individual or group who has vast bitcoin resources and on various trading platforms who are spoofing orders (an illegal practice on the "real" markets) and washing and as a result are price setting.
    Those practices, though, can only be parasitic. They are based on effectively widening the spread and stealing the difference, which is what the high frequency traders do.

    If people stopped believing in bitcoin, they would sell their holdings, and all the market manipulation in the world would be unable to support the price.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    and another one:

    https://twitter.com/NewUKDemocrat

    Meanwhile Chappers is outlining his new party's policies.

    All schools to be free schools, VAT on private education, pension reforms, HoL reform, PR for commons etc etc

    James Chapman is clearly having a lot of fun on holiday. There is potentially a gap in the market for a new political party. But it's not an anti-Brexit gap. The gap for a new political party is for one that makes its top priority the welfare of the British people, as opposed to Brexit delusions or a socialist fantasy.

    Yeah, it's just that simple. Let's get everybody with a political science degree and they can tell us what rational policies are and we'll just do them. Why hasn't anybody thought of that before? The Journalists' Party!

    Reminded of Lenin: ‘You imbeciles, braggarts, idiots, you think that history is made in drawing-rooms where upstart democrats fraternize with titled liberals … Imbeciles, braggarts, idiots! History is made in the trenches where the soldier, possessed by the nightmare of war-madness, plunges his bayonet into the officer’s stomach and then, clinging like grim death to the buffers of a train carriage, escapes to his native village there to set on fire his landlord’s manor.’

    (Good opportunity to repost this: https://i.imgur.com/icZ129g.png)

    Not sure if I would prefer imbeciles, braggarts and idiots; or fruitcakes, loonies, and closet racists.

    Tough call.
    Luckily for us we don't have to choose between them, there's more than enough of every category to go round
    A frequently-heard refrain on the doorstep was how the Cons had UKIPised. Now, one cosmopolitan, central London, Remaining, super-marginal constituency does not a broad electorate make. But it was certainly a factor nationally, I would have thought.
    When both main parties are perceived as equally reckless, 'it's the economy, stupid' doesn't work anymore. People become more likely to vote on cultural issues, and for many naturally centre-right metropolitans a country led by Blukip isn't a country worth living in.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,584
    An interesting article suggesting that Bitcoin mining is big in Venezuela:
    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/big-in-venezuela/534177/
    I'm a bit sceptical about some of the claims, but interesting nontheless.

    And an example of why the whole thing takes a bit of getting your head around, if that's even possible...
    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-08-02/bitcoin-exchange-had-too-many-bitcoins
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Mr. L, science is a great method, its only weak spot is it requires scientists to advance.

    For 200 years after Newton's death, his mistaken views of light went almost unchallenged because anyone who dared implicitly criticise the great man by suggesting he might have been wrong had their head blown off (metaphorically) for their heresy.

    We need scepticism in science, because otherwise flawed theories aren't improved and false theories aren't proven wrong.

    The MMR vaccine was quite different as, if memory serves, it was one buffoon conducting experiments in an unscientific way and then using his flawed conclusions to frighten the public and ill-informed media who regurgitated his idiocy.

    I'm deeply suspicious of those who want to silence critics of a given theory by saying "That's wrongthink, you cannot believe or express that view" rather than simply explaining why they believe it's wrong.

    A 299 page report on climate change in 2016 with 30 pages of references is downloadable here:

    https://www.ametsoc.org/ams/index.cfm/publications/bulletin-of-the-american-meteorological-society-bams/state-of-the-climate/

    The correlation between right wing politics and climate change scepticism is not one based on science, it is because action on climate change requires 2 things that are anathema to right wingers: Co-operation via international organisations, and changes to the economy that they see as anti business.
    That goes impressively off piste not once, but twice. You don't do science by counting pages and footnotes, nor by imputing motive to your opponents instead of addressing their arguments. I understand you are a doctor, in which case it is a bit disturbing that you need telling that. Here is a 400 word treatise with 50 pages of footnotes saying that homeopathy works, and anyone saying different is in the pay of Big Pharma.
    It is a very well substantiated and evidence based piece of work. It is substantial, but it is the quality of evidence that is striking, and consistent. There are none so blind as the wilfully blind though.
    Being coherent and plausible is very different from being true. Read some of the better-written conspiracy theories on the moon landings or 9/11 or how God was an astronaut: taken alone in the absence of any informed critique they sound very compelling. Your messianic imagery is telling: You have seen the light, while I am wilfully blind.
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    TOPPING said:

    PClipp said:

    and another one:
    https://twitter.com/NewUKDemocrat
    Meanwhile Chappers is outlining his new party's policies.
    All schools to be free schools, VAT on private education, pension reforms, HoL reform, PR for commons etc etc

    So... basically Lib Dems/Green/New Labour.
    Hardly, Mr Blue. So-called "free schools" are elitist institutions, funded by the general public and manged by otherwise unemployable offspring of the Conservative establishment - who are on enormous salaries, of course.

    I think he is trying to attract Conservatives who are not sufficiently talented to serve in Mrs May`s Cabinet.
    Where does enormous salary start?
    At the very top, of course. The top tier managers and administrators. They know nothing at all about educating children, but that doesn`t matter..... What larks, eh!
  • rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Does anyone here understand Bitcoin?

    How is it not a Ponzi scheme?

    Err: because the number of Bitcoins in issue rises ever more slowly, until it peaks at 21 million. In a Ponzi scheme, the rate of growth has to be exponential to ensure enough money is flowing in.

    Ultimately, Bitcoin is a free market, with the price set by people's actual transactions. In a Ponzi scheme, the amount in the "fund" is not what it is indicated to be. In other words, it is a central promoter who decrees what it is worth.

    Now, will people continue to value BTC in the future? I have no idea. Nevertheless, what is a currency, but something who's scarcity is guaranteed?
    Thanks. But why actually is a bitcoin worth anything? Why is it different from, say, a tulip in the 18th century or an orchid in the late nineteenth?
    It's worth something because its scarcity is guaranteed.

    OK. Think about why a non-governmental currency would be useful - especially if it could be transferred pseudonymously. If you lived in a country with exchange controls, you could find someone who'd sell you Bitcoins, and in that way you could get money out the country. If your government is hell bent on devaluaing the currency, keeping your money in BTC looks pretty attractive. Finally, Bitcoin (when combined with Tor) is used to buy and sell drugs. If you're a drug dealer, instead of having a stack of twenty pound notes in your apartment, with all the attendant risks, you have a Bitcoin wallet. If you're a buyer, you can pseudonymously send money.

    Unless the government is able to clamp down on dark markets (or legalises drugs), then there will be a demand for a non government currency which can be transferred pseudonymously .

    BTC - while not perfect - fills that hole currently.
    Scarcity is not a guarantee of value though. Austin Allegros are scarce. What makes a bitcoin worth anything?

    It sounds like the art market. If three or four or 100 people buy a Tracy Emin for £1, they can then sell and swap among themselves their Emins for £1million or any number they all agree on. But none of them sees any £1million unless a new party enters the market and puts down an actual £1million of cash. The Emins themselves have no value or utility and are agreed to be a store of wealth only among a clique who paid less than they now say they are worth.

    Is that not how Bitcoin works? Someone somewhere must use them for something?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    PClipp said:

    TOPPING said:

    PClipp said:

    and another one:
    https://twitter.com/NewUKDemocrat
    Meanwhile Chappers is outlining his new party's policies.
    All schools to be free schools, VAT on private education, pension reforms, HoL reform, PR for commons etc etc

    So... basically Lib Dems/Green/New Labour.
    Hardly, Mr Blue. So-called "free schools" are elitist institutions, funded by the general public and manged by otherwise unemployable offspring of the Conservative establishment - who are on enormous salaries, of course.

    I think he is trying to attract Conservatives who are not sufficiently talented to serve in Mrs May`s Cabinet.
    Where does enormous salary start?
    At the very top, of course. The top tier managers and administrators. They know nothing at all about educating children, but that doesn`t matter..... What larks, eh!
    So give me a figure.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Does anyone here understand Bitcoin?

    How is it not a Ponzi scheme?

    Err: because the number of Bitcoins in issue rises ever more slowly, until it peaks at 21 million. In a Ponzi scheme, the rate of growth has to be exponential to ensure enough money is flowing in.

    Ultimately, Bitcoin is a free market, with the price set by people's actual transactions. In a Ponzi scheme, the amount in the "fund" is not what it is indicated to be. In other words, it is a central promoter who decrees what it is worth.

    Now, will people continue to value BTC in the future? I have no idea. Nevertheless, what is a currency, but something who's scarcity is guaranteed?
    There are strong allegations that the is a serious issue with this not being true. There is one individual or group who has vast bitcoin resources and on various trading platforms who are spoofing orders (an illegal practice on the "real" markets) and washing and as a result are price setting.
    These are art market practices also.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,547

    FF43 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    marke09 said:

    Since the EU referendum UK exports have increased by 11.4%, as British goods and services are in demand across the world, ONS figures show.

    In US Dollars or Euros, our exports have declined since the referendum.
    I read yesterday somewhere that devaluation doesn't seem to help exports as much as they used to because products are mostly produced in an international system. You would expect as the USD/Euro conversion of the sterling prices fell, that UK products would be more competitive. Actually UK manufacturers have to raise sterling prices to cover their higher input costs. Devaluation of your currency isn't the quick fix it used to be.

    My company is part of the international chain and about 80% of our costs are sterling based. The main issue is that setting up a manufacturing chain for a product is often a 5 year project and each supplier is a small part of the overall product. The lower sterling may mean that UK suppliers can be more competitive on new products but it will take upto 5 years before they reach volume. If there is a need to switch purely on labour costs then Asia, S America and N Africa are always going to win on cheap labour.

    The short term impact is that our profits are rising as many of our customers pay in dollars or euros. This we can use to invest in our facility so that we can take on more complex projects and improve quality. It will however be a year or so before the investments are complete. In the short term if we do invest this may hurt the trade deficit as the capex we spend is often on imports.

    The larger problem the UK faces is that major international companies may not invest in UK facilities to meet European demand due to concerns over trade barriers. If the investment figures stay low then the pound will keep dropping. The services where the UK is strong in are more exposed to non tarrif barriers and controls over people movement than manufacturing. The drop in the pound may therefore not help except to reduce import services demand. i.e. foreign holidays.
    That's a clear and informative explanation based on your real circumstances. Many thanks!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842

    rcs1000 said:

    Does anyone here understand Bitcoin?

    How is it not a Ponzi scheme?

    Err: because the number of Bitcoins in issue rises ever more slowly, until it peaks at 21 million. In a Ponzi scheme, the rate of growth has to be exponential to ensure enough money is flowing in.

    Ultimately, Bitcoin is a free market, with the price set by people's actual transactions. In a Ponzi scheme, the amount in the "fund" is not what it is indicated to be. In other words, it is a central promoter who decrees what it is worth.

    Now, will people continue to value BTC in the future? I have no idea. Nevertheless, what is a currency, but something who's scarcity is guaranteed?
    There are strong allegations that the is a serious issue with this not being true. There is one individual or group who has vast bitcoin resources and on various trading platforms who are spoofing orders (an illegal practice on the "real" markets) and washing and as a result are price setting.
    These are art market practices also.
    The value of anything's worth is what someone is willing to pay for it.
    Willing buyer, willing seller.

    On art - well I wouldn't bother to buy any of Tracey Emin's stuff, but I'd happily fork out a couple of million for "Swans reflecting elephants" if I had it.
    Personal preference !
  • Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Does anyone here understand Bitcoin?

    How is it not a Ponzi scheme?

    Err: because the number of Bitcoins in issue rises ever more slowly, until it peaks at 21 million. In a Ponzi scheme, the rate of growth has to be exponential to ensure enough money is flowing in.

    Ultimately, Bitcoin is a free market, with the price set by people's actual transactions. In a Ponzi scheme, the amount in the "fund" is not what it is indicated to be. In other words, it is a central promoter who decrees what it is worth.

    Now, will people continue to value BTC in the future? I have no idea. Nevertheless, what is a currency, but something who's scarcity is guaranteed?
    There are strong allegations that the is a serious issue with this not being true. There is one individual or group who has vast bitcoin resources and on various trading platforms who are spoofing orders (an illegal practice on the "real" markets) and washing and as a result are price setting.
    These are art market practices also.
    The value of anything's worth is what someone is willing to pay for it.
    Willing buyer, willing seller.

    On art - well I wouldn't bother to buy any of Tracey Emin's stuff, but I'd happily fork out a couple of million for "Swans reflecting elephants" if I had it.
    Personal preference !
    Yes, but there is intrinsic and extrinsic value, and utility confers intrinsic value. A cubic foot of gas can be burnt to heat something, and it's not a matter of opinion whether it can or not. Most of Tracy Emin's oeuvre would also be best burnt to heat things having no other value; like a bitcoin apparently.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,547

    James Chapman is clearly having a lot of fun on holiday. There is potentially a gap in the market for a new political party. But it's not an anti-Brexit gap. The gap for a new political party is for one that makes its top priority the welfare of the British people, as opposed to Brexit delusions or a socialist fantasy.

    The gap is for an outward looking, globalist, business friendly, liberal and democratic party. Brexit is as much the symptom as the cause of the problem. The Lib Dems have two of those adjectives in their name but I don't think they are it, unless they are prepared to reposition themselves and potentially lose some of their rural bastions.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,584
    edited August 2017

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Does anyone here understand Bitcoin?

    How is it not a Ponzi scheme?

    Err: because the number of Bitcoins in issue rises ever more slowly, until it peaks at 21 million. In a Ponzi scheme, the rate of growth has to be exponential to ensure enough money is flowing in.

    Ultimately, Bitcoin is a free market, with the price set by people's actual transactions. In a Ponzi scheme, the amount in the "fund" is not what it is indicated to be. In other words, it is a central promoter who decrees what it is worth.

    Now, will people continue to value BTC in the future? I have no idea. Nevertheless, what is a currency, but something who's scarcity is guaranteed?
    Thanks. But why actually is a bitcoin worth anything? Why is it different from, say, a tulip in the 18th century or an orchid in the late nineteenth?
    It's worth something because its scarcity is guaranteed.

    OK. Think about why a non-governmental currency would be useful - especially if it could be transferred pseudonymously. If you lived in a country with exchange controls, you could find someone who'd sell you Bitcoins, and in that way you could get money out the country. If your government is hell bent on devaluaing the currency, keeping your money in BTC looks pretty attractive. Finally, Bitcoin (when combined with Tor) is used to buy and sell drugs. If you're a drug dealer, instead of having a stack of twenty pound notes in your apartment, with all the attendant risks, you have a Bitcoin wallet. If you're a buyer, you can pseudonymously send money.

    Unless the government is able to clamp down on dark markets (or legalises drugs), then there will be a demand for a non government currency which can be transferred pseudonymously .

    BTC - while not perfect - fills that hole currently.
    Scarcity is not a guarantee of value though. Austin Allegros are scarce. What makes a bitcoin worth anything?

    It sounds like the art market. If three or four or 100 people buy a Tracy Emin for £1, they can then sell and swap among themselves their Emins for £1million or any number they all agree on. But none of them sees any £1million unless a new party enters the market and puts down an actual £1million of cash. The Emins themselves have no value or utility and are agreed to be a store of wealth only among a clique who paid less than they now say they are worth.

    Is that not how Bitcoin works? Someone somewhere must use them for something?
    It's a reliable and secure means of storing and exchanging value.
    Of particular interest to money launderers...
  • Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Does anyone here understand Bitcoin?

    How is it not a Ponzi scheme?

    Err: because the number of Bitcoins in issue rises ever more slowly, until it peaks at 21 million. In a Ponzi scheme, the rate of growth has to be exponential to ensure enough money is flowing in.

    Ultimately, Bitcoin is a free market, with the price set by people's actual transactions. In a Ponzi scheme, the amount in the "fund" is not what it is indicated to be. In other words, it is a central promoter who decrees what it is worth.

    Now, will people continue to value BTC in the future? I have no idea. Nevertheless, what is a currency, but something who's scarcity is guaranteed?
    Thanks. But why actually is a bitcoin worth anything? Why is it different from, say, a tulip in the 18th century or an orchid in the late nineteenth?
    It's worth something because its scarcity is guaranteed.

    OK. Think about why a non-governmental currency would be useful - especially if it could be transferred pseudonymously. If you lived in a country with exchange controls, you could find someone who'd sell you Bitcoins, and in that way you could get money out the country. If your government is hell bent on devaluaing the currency, keeping your money in BTC looks pretty attractive. Finally, Bitcoin (when combined with Tor) is used to buy and sell drugs. If you're a drug dealer, instead of having a stack of twenty pound notes in your apartment, with all the attendant risks, you have a Bitcoin wallet. If you're a buyer, you can pseudonymously send money.

    Unless the government is able to clamp down on dark markets (or legalises drugs), then there will be a demand for a non government currency which can be transferred pseudonymously .

    BTC - while not perfect - fills that hole currently.
    Scarcity is not a guarantee of value though. Austin Allegros are scarce. What makes a bitcoin worth anything?

    It sounds like the art market. If three or four or 100 people buy a Tracy Emin for £1, they can then sell and swap among themselves their Emins for £1million or any number they all agree on. But none of them sees any £1million unless a new party enters the market and puts down an actual £1million of cash. The Emins themselves have no value or utility and are agreed to be a store of wealth only among a clique who paid less than they now say they are worth.

    Is that not how Bitcoin works? Someone somewhere must use them for something?
    It's a reliable and secure means of storing and exchanging value.
    Of particular interest to money launderers...
    But that's circular, Nigel. What value do they store?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,922
    edited August 2017

    The current warming is miniscule compared to the warming around 11,600 years ago.

    Indeed, and that one reduced our ancestors to living in caves and mud huts. There is no trace of their previous high-technology civilisation :D
    Plato (original one!) tells us Atlantis was submerged 11,600 years ago.

    Gobekli Tepe, the earliest "temple" has been dated to 11,600 years ago.
  • PeterCPeterC Posts: 1,274
    FF43 said:

    James Chapman is clearly having a lot of fun on holiday. There is potentially a gap in the market for a new political party. But it's not an anti-Brexit gap. The gap for a new political party is for one that makes its top priority the welfare of the British people, as opposed to Brexit delusions or a socialist fantasy.

    The gap is for an outward looking, globalist, business friendly, liberal and democratic party. Brexit is as much the symptom as the cause of the problem. The Lib Dems have two of those adjectives in their name but I don't think they are it, unless they are prepared to reposition themselves and potentially lose some of their rural bastions.
    Is not the point here that FPTP is ruthless in its punishment of those parties which triy to fish in the same pond? The LibDems already have the organisation, brand and campaigning skills which are absolutely fundamental. The putative Democrats have none of these. What reason is there to think that such a party would have greater success? Its seems to me that the voters who tick the boxes you specify would be best to vote LibDem and be done with it. Chapman's effort just looks like a vanity project to me.
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