Has anyone mentioned tonight's report in the Telegraph on line that the majority of remain voters now agree that Britain should take control of it's borders after Brexit, end the jurisdiction of the ECJ and pay little or nothing to leave.
It is a major survey of 20,000 people who now prefer a hard brexit.
Almost 70% of people said they preferred a deal with the EU which ends membership of the single market, ongoing payments and continued freedom of movement
A similar percentage prefer a 'no deal' to a soft Brexit.
Maybe opinion is moving away from the EU and those fighting to remain may be losing the argument.
But note I have said 'maybe'
Did any of the people they surveyed have a workable solution for the Irish border?
Does it matter?
If the deal were to result in a hard border with Ireland
Given thats what neither the UK or Ireland want that would be at the EU's insistence, surely?
No, it could only ever be at the UK's insistence, due to the UK having an incomplete understanding of its position.
James Chapman's Twitter is a complete car crash today...
The man is totally unhinged!
What is on display is a total lack of judgement. He could have put forward his views in a measured and - dare I say it - statesmanlike fashion and have been given the chance of hearing. Instead he is just lashing out in all directions and in the process making his cause appear ridiculous.
I expect serious Remoaners will want dissociate themselves from him. He is certainly the very last person you would want to launch a new party!
Mail."
I assume the only reas
It's going to need someone with a bit more gravitas and depth to kick this off properly I think. David Miliband maybe?
any sustained attention. The only problem is that I'm not sure that we do political heavyweights anymore.
If you believe in remaining you should go for it because what have you got to lose? What Chapman is ranting about makes quite a lot of sense. If a new party gets 20 seats, it has the balance of power.
I do not see why a new party would fare any better than the LibDems. In 2017 they were the ideal anti-Brexit choice, yet came nowhere, and that with about a quarter of voters being strongly opposed to Brexit. This is surely driven by the LibDems' lack of credibility as potential winners, the oldest of the obstacles faced by the Liberals. This in turn is driven by FPTP.
A unified centre force would need close on 30pc of the poll even to begin to achieve lift-off.
People should indeed stop thinking that a new party would automatically suffer the same fate as the SDP. It's fate could in fact be far worse. Even winning only a handful of seats it's influence could nonetheless be highly significant in the way it might alter the balance of support between the two main parties. This factor has been important if not critical in most of the elections since 1974.
Fact is the lib dems are busted flush because of tuition fees and the coalition. They played the insurgent protest card for the 00's and the reality of being in power then caught up with them. Also, Farron?
So what should they do? Just shut up shop and hand over to the new party? Just like the News of the World becoming the Sun on Sunday! Ex-LibDems would of course mostly join the new party, so we would not be able to get away from them.
Interestingly the Telegraph says it's a survey of 20,000 people, Buzzfeed says 3,000... What's the betting LSE and Oxford say they surveyed 300? lol! [See EDIT below]
Feels like potentially fake news until we see the official survey.
EDIT: The Buzzfeed article states: The researchers collected six data points each from 3,293 people, resulting in a dataset of 19,758 choices. An earlier version of this story misstated that the researchers surveyed 20,000 people.
Bottom of buzzfeed page:
CORRECTION August 11, 2017, at 5:17 p.m. The researchers collected six data points each from 3,293 people, resulting in a dataset of 19,758 choices. An earlier version of this story misstated that the researchers surveyed 20,000 people.
The graphs in the article are really, really cool (in form as opposed to content)
They may be really cool in Chrome - they are really blank in Safari!
Scroll down - works in my Safari......
Nope not working for me - maybe it's my Adblocker?
Anyway no probs as I can see the graphs in Chrome. and yes @Ishmael_Z they are really cool... but also a bit perplexing... And the way the Telegraph reports it has definitely turned it into fake news...
The Telegraph article quotes, for example, that 52.2% of Remainers support leaving the jurisdiction of the ECJ.
According to Buzzfeed the survey shows Remain support for the following statements as:
Britain is not subject to EU laws or decisions by the European Court of Justice 49.2% Britain adopts some EU laws but is not subject to decisions by the European Court of Justice 52.2% Britain is subject to some EU laws and some decisions by the European Court of Justice 51.4% Britain is subject to all EU laws and all decisions by the European Court of Justice 47%
So whilst 52.2% think we should not be subject to decisions by the ECJ (as the Telegraph quotes) 51.4% think we should be subject to some and 47% that we should be subject ot all.
How does that add up!? No wonder the researcher don't plan to publish the full results until later this year after a peer review.
Interestingly the Telegraph says it's a survey of 20,000 people, Buzzfeed says 3,000... What's the betting LSE and Oxford say they surveyed 300? lol! [See EDIT below]
Feels like potentially fake news until we see the official survey.
EDIT: The Buzzfeed article states: The researchers collected six data points each from 3,293 people, resulting in a dataset of 19,758 choices. An earlier version of this story misstated that the researchers surveyed 20,000 people.
Bottom of buzzfeed page:
CORRECTION August 11, 2017, at 5:17 p.m. The researchers collected six data points each from 3,293 people, resulting in a dataset of 19,758 choices. An earlier version of this story misstated that the researchers surveyed 20,000 people.
The graphs in the article are really, really cool (in form as opposed to content)
They may be really cool in Chrome - they are really blank in Safari!
Scroll down - works in my Safari......
Nope not working for me - maybe it's my Adblocker?
Anyway no probs as I can see the graphs in Chrome. and yes @Ishmael_Z they are really cool... but also a bit perplexing... And the way the Telegraph reports it has definitely turned it into fake news...
The Telegraph article quotes, for example, that 52.2% of Remainers support leaving the jurisdiction of the ECJ.
According to Buzzfeed the survey shows Remain support for the following statements as:
Britain is not subject to EU laws or decisions by the European Court of Justice 49.2% Britain adopts some EU laws but is not subject to decisions by the European Court of Justice 52.2% Britain is subject to some EU laws and some decisions by the European Court of Justice 51.4% Britain is subject to all EU laws and all decisions by the European Court of Justice 47%
So whilst 52.2% think we should not be subject to decisions by the ECJ (as the Telegraph quotes) 51.4% think we should be subject to some and 47% that we should be subject ot all.
How does that add up!? No wonder the researcher don't plan to publish the full results until later this year after a peer review.
Fake news alert!
Seems as if it has got you really bothered. Whatever will be will be
Has anyone mentioned tonight's report in the Telegraph on line that the majority of remain voters now agree that Britain should take control of it's borders after Brexit, end the jurisdiction of the ECJ and pay little or nothing to leave.
It is a major survey of 20,000 people who now prefer a hard brexit.
Almost 70% of people said they preferred a deal with the EU which ends membership of the single market, ongoing payments and continued freedom of movement
A similar percentage prefer a 'no deal' to a soft Brexit.
Maybe opinion is moving away from the EU and those fighting to remain may be losing the argument.
But note I have said 'maybe'
I think that I am not alone in being a Remainer turned Hard Brexiteer.
Either we stay in and fully participate, or walkaway completely. A half in / half out Brexit is not tenable.
To be honest you are a supporter of Corbyn who cannot follow his Venezuela economics while tied to the EU. Great game against the Arsenal tonight and you deserved a point at least
We always get robbed at the Arsenal. Comedy defending at both ends and very poor subs by Shakey.
I have never supported Corbyn's economics, though can understand why he is popular. I have always opposed borrowing. I hate debt in all its forms.
You hate people saving! Why?
Debt shrinks horizons, and chains us to the yoke of the capitalists. It prevents us being free.
I accept it as a nessecary evil when for investment, and provided there is a realistic plan to pay it back over a short timespan.
Ah Foxy I strongly recommend you listen to Radio 4's A history of Debt by David Graeber...
EDIT: The Buzzfeed article states: The researchers collected six data points each from 3,293 people, resulting in a dataset of 19,758 choices. An earlier version of this story misstated that the researchers surveyed 20,000 people.
Bottom of buzzfeed page:
CORRECTION August 11, 2017, at 5:17 p.m. The researchers collected six data points each from 3,293 people, resulting in a dataset of 19,758 choices. An earlier version of this story misstated that the researchers surveyed 20,000 people.
The graphs in the article are really, really cool (in form as opposed to content)
They may be really cool in Chrome - they are really blank in Safari!
Scroll down - works in my Safari......
Nope not working for me - maybe it's my Adblocker?
Anyway no probs as I can see the graphs in Chrome. and yes @Ishmael_Z they are really cool... but also a bit perplexing... And the way the Telegraph reports it has definitely turned it into fake news...
The Telegraph article quotes, for example, that 52.2% of Remainers support leaving the jurisdiction of the ECJ.
According to Buzzfeed the survey shows Remain support for the following statements as:
Britain is not subject to EU laws or decisions by the European Court of Justice 49.2% Britain adopts some EU laws but is not subject to decisions by the European Court of Justice 52.2% Britain is subject to some EU laws and some decisions by the European Court of Justice 51.4% Britain is subject to all EU laws and all decisions by the European Court of Justice 47%
How does that add up!? No wonder the researcher don't plan to publish the full results until later this year after a peer review.
Fake news alert!
Not really, just that the "have cake and eat it party" is popular.
Hard Brexit is nailed on, as soft Brexit is neither on offer or acceptable to the public. Perhaps it is time to get those customs posts built and hundreds of quangos on medicines, atomic energy and aeroplanes going.
Interestingly the Telegraph says it's a survey of 20,000 people, Buzzfeed says 3,000... What's the betting LSE and Oxford say they surveyed 300? lol! [See EDIT below]
Feels like potentially fake news until we see the official survey.
EDIT: The Buzzfeed article states: The researchers collected six data points each from 3,293 people, resulting in a dataset of 19,758 choices. An earlier version of this story misstated that the researchers surveyed 20,000 people.
Bottom of buzzfeed page:
CORRECTION August 11, 2017, at 5:17 p.m. The researchers collected six data points each from 3,293 people, resulting in a dataset of 19,758 choices. An earlier version of this story misstated that the researchers surveyed 20,000 people.
The graphs in the article are really, really cool (in form as opposed to content)
They may be really cool in Chrome - they are really blank in Safari!
Scroll down - works in my Safari......
Nope not working for me - maybe it's my Adblocker?
Anyway no probs as I can see the graphs in Chrome. and yes @Ishmael_Z they are really cool... but also a bit perplexing... And the way the Telegraph reports it has definitely turned it into fake news...
The Telegraph article quotes, for example, that 52.2% of Remainers support leaving the jurisdiction of the ECJ.
According to Buzzfeed the survey shows Remain support for the following statements as:
Britain is not subject to EU laws or decisions by the European Court of Justice 49.2% Britain adopts some EU laws but is not subject to decisions by the European Court of Justice 52.2% Britain is subject to some EU laws and some decisions by the European Court of Justice 51.4% Britain is subject to all EU laws and all decisions by the European Court of Justice 47%
So whilst 52.2% think we should not be subject to decisions by the ECJ (as the Telegraph quotes) 51.4% think we should be subject to some and 47% that we should be subject ot all.
How does that add up!? No wonder the researcher don't plan to publish the full results until later this year after a peer review.
Fake news alert!
Seems as if it has got you really bothered. Whatever will be will be
Has anyone mentioned tonight's report in the Telegraph on line that the majority of remain voters now agree that Britain should take control of it's borders after Brexit, end the jurisdiction of the ECJ and pay little or nothing to leave.
It is a major survey of 20,000 people who now prefer a hard brexit.
Almost 70% of people said they preferred a deal with the EU which ends membership of the single market, ongoing payments and continued freedom of movement
A similar percentage prefer a 'no deal' to a soft Brexit.
Maybe opinion is moving away from the EU and those fighting to remain may be losing the argument.
But note I have said 'maybe'
I think that I am not alone in being a Remainer turned Hard Brexiteer.
Either we stay in and fully participate, or walkaway completely. A half in / half out Brexit is not tenable.
To be honest you are a supporter of Corbyn who cannot follow his Venezuela economics while tied to the EU. Great game against the Arsenal tonight and you deserved a point at least
We always get robbed at the Arsenal. Comedy defending at both ends and very poor subs by Shakey.
I have never supported Corbyn's economics, though can understand why he is popular. I have always opposed borrowing. I hate debt in all its forms.
You hate people saving! Why?
Debt shrinks horizons, and chains us to the yoke of the capitalists. It prevents us being free.
I accept it as a nessecary evil when for investment, and provided there is a realistic plan to pay it back over a short timespan.
Ah Foxy I strongly recommend you listen to Radio 4's A history of Debt by David Graeber...
It changed my view of debt, which is in fact the glue that holds society together. Give it a try!
Edit: the series I mean; I'm not encouraging you to get seriously into hock!
I heard it before, but where you see glue, I see chains. Freedom from debt is the real freedom, until that point you are always someone's servant. Other freedoms are theoretical if in debt.
Interestingly the Telegraph says it's a survey of 20,000 people, Buzzfeed says 3,000... What's the betting LSE and Oxford say they surveyed 300? lol! [See EDIT below]
Feels like potentially fake news until we see the official survey.
EDIT: The Buzzfeed article states: The researchers collected six data points each from 3,293 people, resulting in a dataset of 19,758 choices. An earlier version of this story misstated that the researchers surveyed 20,000 people.
Bottom of buzzfeed page:
CORRECTION August 11, 2017, at 5:17 p.m. The researchers collected six data points each from 3,293 people, resulting in a dataset of 19,758 choices. An earlier version of this story misstated that the researchers surveyed 20,000 people.
The graphs in the article are really, really cool (in form as opposed to content)
They may be really cool in Chrome - they are really blank in Safari!
Scroll down - works in my Safari......
Nope not working for me - maybe it's my Adblocker?
Anyway no probs as I can see the graphs in Chrome. and yes @Ishmael_Z they are really cool... but also a bit perplexing... And the way the Telegraph reports it has definitely turned it into fake news...
The Telegraph article quotes, for example, that 52.2% of Remainers support leaving the jurisdiction of the ECJ.
According to Buzzfeed the survey shows Remain support for the following statements as:
Britain is not subject to EU laws or decisions by the European Court of Justice 49.2% Britain adopts some EU laws but is not subject to decisions by the European Court of Justice 52.2% Britain is subject to some EU laws and some decisions by the European Court of Justice 51.4% Britain is subject to all EU laws and all decisions by the European Court of Justice 47%
So whilst 52.2% think we should not be subject to decisions by the ECJ (as the Telegraph quotes) 51.4% think we should be subject to some and 47% that we should be subject ot all.
How does that add up!? No wonder the researcher don't plan to publish the full results until later this year after a peer review.
Fake news alert!
Seems as if it has got you really bothered. Whatever will be will be
EDIT: The Buzzfeed article states: The researchers collected six data points each from 3,293 people, resulting in a dataset of 19,758 choices. An earlier version of this story misstated that the researchers surveyed 20,000 people.
Bottom of buzzfeed page:
CORRECTION August 11, 2017, at 5:17 p.m. The researchers collected six data points each from 3,293 people, resulting in a dataset of 19,758 choices. An earlier version of this story misstated that the researchers surveyed 20,000 people.
The graphs in the article are really, really cool (in form as opposed to content)
They may be really cool in Chrome - they are really blank in Safari!
Scroll down - works in my Safari......
Nope not working for me - maybe it's my Adblocker?
Anyway no probs as I can see the graphs in Chrome. and yes @Ishmael_Z they are really cool... but also a bit perplexing... And the way the Telegraph reports it has definitely turned it into fake news...
The Telegraph article quotes, for example, that 52.2% of Remainers support leaving the jurisdiction of the ECJ.
According to Buzzfeed the survey shows Remain support for the following statements as:
Britain is not subject to EU laws or decisions by the European Court of Justice 49.2% Britain adopts some EU laws but is not subject to decisions by the European Court of Justice 52.2% Britain is subject to some EU laws and some decisions by the European Court of Justice 51.4% Britain is subject to all EU laws and all decisions by the European Court of Justice 47%
How does that add up!? No wonder the researcher don't plan to publish the full results until later this year after a peer review.
Fake news alert!
Not really, just that the "have cake and eat it party" is popular.
Hard Brexit is nailed on, as soft Brexit is neither on offer or acceptable to the public. Perhaps it is time to get those customs posts built and hundreds of quangos on medicines, atomic energy and aeroplanes going.
It's amazing how the sentiment on this site fluctuates from 'Hard Brexit is nailed on' to 'soft Brexit is inevitable' to 'Brexit will never happen' via an open-ended transition period. And back again...
I suspect an almighty fudge will be the end result and no one will be very happy.
Has anyone mentioned tonight's report in the Telegraph on line that the majority of remain voters now agree that Britain should take control of it's borders after Brexit, end the jurisdiction of the ECJ and pay little or nothing to leave.
It is a major survey of 20,000 people who now prefer a hard brexit.
Almost 70% of people said they preferred a deal with the EU which ends membership of the single market, ongoing payments and continued freedom of movement
A similar percentage prefer a 'no deal' to a soft Brexit.
Maybe opinion is moving away from the EU and those fighting to remain may be losing the argument.
But note I have said 'maybe'
I think that I am not alone in being a Remainer turned Hard Brexiteer.
Either we stay in and fully participate, or walkaway completely. A half in / half out Brexit is not tenable.
To be honest you are a supporter of Corbyn who cannot follow his Venezuela economics while tied to the EU. Great game against the Arsenal tonight and you deserved a point at least
We always get robbed at the Arsenal. Comedy defending at both ends and very poor subs by Shakey.
I have never supported Corbyn's economics, though can understand why he is popular. I have always opposed borrowing. I hate debt in all its forms.
You hate people saving! Why?
Debt shrinks horizons, and chains us to the yoke of the capitalists. It prevents us being free.
I accept it as a nessecary evil when for investment, and provided there is a realistic plan to pay it back over a short timespan.
Ah Foxy I strongly recommend you listen to Radio 4's A history of Debt by David Graeber...
It changed my view of debt, which is in fact the glue that holds society together. Give it a try!
Edit: the series I mean; I'm not encouraging you to get seriously into hock!
I heard it before, but where you see glue, I see chains. Freedom from debt is the real freedom, until that point you are always someone's servant. Other freedoms are theoretical if in debt.
It depends - if you do me a favour, I am in your debt. Is that a bad thing?
Has anyone mentioned tonight's report in the Telegraph on line that the majority of remain voters now agree that Britain should take control of it's borders after Brexit, end the jurisdiction of the ECJ and pay little or nothing to leave.
It is a major survey of 20,000 people who now prefer a hard brexit.
Almost 70% of people said they preferred a deal with the EU which ends membership of the single market, ongoing payments and continued freedom of movement
A similar percentage prefer a 'no deal' to a soft Brexit.
Maybe opinion is moving away from the EU and those fighting to remain may be losing the argument.
But note I have said 'maybe'
Did any of the people they surveyed have a workable solution for the Irish border?
Does it matter?
If the deal were to result in a hard border with Ireland
Given thats what neither the UK or Ireland want that would be at the EU's insistence, surely?
If differential taxes result in crossborder smuggling lowering the tax rake, or people smuggling crossborder becomes too much to be ignored, then one or the other will impose a border voluntarily. Whether that border will be on land or between the two islands is the issue.
Borders aren't just pretty lines, they enable control and taxation of goods. Differential taxes and soft borders makes smuggling profitable, and since criminals are the best smugglers it encourages criminality, and then you have that problem too.
This is a genuine problem for both states on a philosophical level. I've characterised UK/Ire relations as "UK pretends Ireland isn't independent, and Ireland pretends it is". For decades this stance has served both states well, but the implication of Brexit means they have to address this. Alanbrooke of this parish insists that Ire will operate in lockstep with UK, and he may well be right. And before Ire joined the Euro I would have expected Ire to follow UK out of EU on the same day, in the same way that they joined on the same day. But as they are in the Euro they are tied to the EU in the same way Greece is. They have wargamed leaving the EU and remaining in the Euro (which shows how worried they are), but the results were not encouraging.How this will play out I don't know.
Has anyone mentioned tonight's report in the Telegraph on line that the majority of remain voters now agree that Britain should take control of it's borders after Brexit, end the jurisdiction of the ECJ and pay little or nothing to leave.
It is a major survey of 20,000 people who now prefer a hard brexit.
Almost 70% of people said they preferred a deal with the EU which ends membership of the single market, ongoing payments and continued freedom of movement
A similar percentage prefer a 'no deal' to a soft Brexit.
Maybe opinion is moving away from the EU and those fighting to remain may be losing the argument.
But note I have said 'maybe'
I think that I am not alone in being a Remainer turned Hard Brexiteer.
Either we stay in and fully participate, or walkaway completely. A half in / half out Brexit is not tenable.
To be honest you are a supporter of Corbyn who cannot follow his Venezuela economics while tied to the EU. Great game against the Arsenal tonight and you deserved a point at least
We always get robbed at the Arsenal. Comedy defending at both ends and very poor subs by Shakey.
I have never supported Corbyn's economics, though can understand why he is popular. I have always opposed borrowing. I hate debt in all its forms.
You hate people saving! Why?
Debt shrinks horizons, and chains us to the yoke of the capitalists. It prevents us being free.
I accept it as a nessecary evil when for investment, and provided there is a realistic plan to pay it back over a short timespan.
Ah Foxy I strongly recommend you listen to Radio 4's A history of Debt by David Graeber...
It changed my view of debt, which is in fact the glue that holds society together. Give it a try!
Edit: the series I mean; I'm not encouraging you to get seriously into hock!
I heard it before, but where you see glue, I see chains. Freedom from debt is the real freedom, until that point you are always someone's servant. Other freedoms are theoretical if in debt.
It depends - if you do me a favour, I am in your debt. Is that a bad thing?
It is a major survey of 20,000 people who now prefer a hard brexit.
Almost 70% of people said they preferred a deal with the EU which ends membership of the single market, ongoing payments and continued freedom of movement
A similar percentage prefer a 'no deal' to a soft Brexit.
Maybe opinion is moving away from the EU and those fighting to remain may be losing the argument.
But note I have said 'maybe'
I think that I am not alone in being a Remainer turned Hard Brexiteer.
Either we stay in and fully participate, or walkaway completely. A half in / half out Brexit is not tenable.
To be honest you are a supporter of Corbyn who cannot follow his Venezuela economics while tied to the EU. Great game against the Arsenal tonight and you deserved a point at least
We always get robbed at the Arsenal. Comedy defending at both ends and very poor subs by Shakey.
I have never supported Corbyn's economics, though can understand why he is popular. I have always opposed borrowing. I hate debt in all its forms.
You hate people saving! Why?
Debt shrinks horizons, and chains us to the yoke of the capitalists. It prevents us being free.
I accept it as a nessecary evil when for investment, and provided there is a realistic plan to pay it back over a short timespan.
Ah Foxy I strongly recommend you listen to Radio 4's A history of Debt by David Graeber...
It changed my view of debt, which is in fact the glue that holds society together. Give it a try!
Edit: the series I mean; I'm not encouraging you to get seriously into hock!
I heard it before, but where you see glue, I see chains. Freedom from debt is the real freedom, until that point you are always someone's servant. Other freedoms are theoretical if in debt.
It depends - if you do me a favour, I am in your debt. Is that a bad thing?
Yes.
Give freely, without thought of return.
To paraphrase Matthew 10:8
We'll have to disagree on that one I think!
Without debt I'd still be saving up for my first house, with no hope of ever getting there because my savings would be earning no interest. Meanwhile I am renting off some rich bastard who must have inherited his wealth I guess.
It's one of those lovely ideas that the Federasts seem to come up with but it falls down by being too clever by half, and a bit dodgy as well. That's not to say it is dodgy, but it appears to be and that's how we Brexiteers will present it. It comes hard on the heels of Gina Miller and the tame judges - and look how we responded to that.
Honestly, I've only ever visited the "Peppa Pig World" website once (several weeks) ago to show it to a friend who has a young child and didn't believe me that such a hellish concept could possibly be real... Now, as a result of this rash(er) action I see a banner advert for the damn place every time I visit PB.
Has anyone mentioned tonight's report in the Telegraph on line that the majority of remain voters now agree that Britain should take control of it's borders after Brexit, end the jurisdiction of the ECJ and pay little or nothing to leave.
It is a major survey of 20,000 people who now prefer a hard brexit.
Almost 70% of people said they preferred a deal with the EU which ends membership of the single market, ongoing payments and continued freedom of movement
A similar percentage prefer a 'no deal' to a soft Brexit.
Maybe opinion is moving away from the EU and those fighting to remain may be losing the argument.
But note I have said 'maybe'
Did any of the people they surveyed have a workable solution for the Irish border?
Does it matter?
It matters, I suspect, in that it makes the support of the DUP less certain. I suspect that there is a very large majority of people in Northern Ireland that wish the Common Travel Area to continue, including a majority of Unionists.
If the deal were to result in a hard border with Ireland, you might see the DUP unable to support it. Given there will be a fair number of Tories who might vote against the government, and that Corbyn will be ruthless in his desire to see the Tories out of power, I do believe that there is a very real chance that the Brexit (Arrangements) Bill fails to pass the House of Commons.
What is the precise name of the Bill that you have referred to as the Brexit (Arrangements) Bill?
I can't see it on the Parliament website.
Do you mean the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill?
Or maybe the Bill has not yet been introduced to Parliament?
The EU egg scandal seems to be extending to chicken meat. But no problem the EU are meeting on the 26th September to discuss the issue.
Clear demonstration that they are too cumbersome an organisation to deal with it now as an emergency
Whereas the UK dealt with BSE in an exemplary manner of course!
Always ready to do down UK PLC
No it's just foolish to think that UK bureaucracy is any better than EU bureacracy.
Have you flip-flopped back to Leave again? I thought you'd changed to a reluctant Remainer last month?!
No - I am wanting out but not prepared to be up tight about it as the negotiations proceed. It does feel as if there is some indication that the EU does not have all the cards and it could be that the majority do not care too much about the negatives, they just want the deed done
I would add it does not help my attitude to the EU when Juncker pays £24,000 for a private flying taxi from Brussels to Rome when there are many direct flights between the two daily. But socialists always run out of other people's money
The EU egg scandal seems to be extending to chicken meat. But no problem the EU are meeting on the 26th September to discuss the issue.
Clear demonstration that they are too cumbersome an organisation to deal with it now as an emergency
Whereas the UK dealt with BSE in an exemplary manner of course!
Always ready to do down UK PLC
No it's just foolish to think that UK bureaucracy is any better than EU bureacracy.
Have you flip-flopped back to Leave again? I thought you'd changed to a reluctant Remainer last month?!
No - I am wanting out but not prepared to be up tight about it as the negotiations proceed. It does feel as if there is some indication that the EU does not have all the cards and it could be that the majority do not care too much about the negatives, they just want the deed done
I would add it does not help my attitude to the EU when Juncker pays £24,000 for a private flying taxi from Brussels to Rome when there are many direct flights between the two daily. But socialists always run out of other people's money
Comments
Anyway no probs as I can see the graphs in Chrome. and yes @Ishmael_Z they are really cool... but also a bit perplexing... And the way the Telegraph reports it has definitely turned it into fake news...
The Telegraph article quotes, for example, that 52.2% of Remainers support leaving the jurisdiction of the ECJ.
According to Buzzfeed the survey shows Remain support for the following statements as:
Britain is not subject to EU laws or decisions by the European Court of Justice 49.2%
Britain adopts some EU laws but is not subject to decisions by the European Court of Justice 52.2%
Britain is subject to some EU laws and some decisions by the European Court of Justice 51.4%
Britain is subject to all EU laws and all decisions by the European Court of Justice 47%
So whilst 52.2% think we should not be subject to decisions by the ECJ (as the Telegraph quotes) 51.4% think we should be subject to some and 47% that we should be subject ot all.
How does that add up!? No wonder the researcher don't plan to publish the full results until later this year after a peer review.
Fake news alert!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b054zdp6
It changed my view of debt, which is in fact the glue that holds society together. Give it a try!
Edit: the series I mean; I'm not encouraging you to get seriously into hock!
Hard Brexit is nailed on, as soft Brexit is neither on offer or acceptable to the public. Perhaps it is time to get those customs posts built and hundreds of quangos on medicines, atomic energy and aeroplanes going.
Link for others as blind as me http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/11/remain-voters-now-back-taking-control-borders-leaving-ecj-paying/
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamesball/remain-and-leave-voters-are-surprisingly-united-on-backing
Interestingly the Telegraph says it's a survey of 20,000 people, Buzzfeed says 3,000... What's the betting LSE and Oxford say they surveyed 300? lol! [See EDIT below]
Feels like potentially fake news until we see the official survey.
EDIT: The Buzzfeed article states:
The researchers collected six data points each from 3,293 people, resulting in a dataset of 19,758 choices. An earlier version of this story misstated that the researchers surveyed 20,000 people.
Bottom of buzzfeed page:
CORRECTION
August 11, 2017, at 5:17 p.m.
The researchers collected six data points each from 3,293 people, resulting in a dataset of 19,758 choices. An earlier version of this story misstated that the researchers surveyed 20,000 people.
The graphs in the article are really, really cool (in form as opposed to content)
They may be really cool in Chrome - they are really blank in Safari!
Scroll down - works in my Safari......
Nope not working for me - maybe it's my Adblocker?
Anyway no probs as I can see the graphs in Chrome. and yes @Ishmael_Z they are really cool... but also a bit perplexing... And the way the Telegraph reports it has definitely turned it into fake news...
The Telegraph article quotes, for example, that 52.2% of Remainers support leaving the jurisdiction of the ECJ.
According to Buzzfeed the survey shows Remain support for the following statements as:
Britain is not subject to EU laws or decisions by the European Court of Justice 49.2%
Britain adopts some EU laws but is not subject to decisions by the European Court of Justice 52.2%
Britain is subject to some EU laws and some decisions by the European Court of Justice 51.4%
Britain is subject to all EU laws and all decisions by the European Court of Justice 47%
So whilst 52.2% think we should not be subject to decisions by the ECJ (as the Telegraph quotes) 51.4% think we should be subject to some and 47% that we should be subject ot all.
How does that add up!? No wonder the researcher don't plan to publish the full results until later this year after a peer review.
Fake news alert!
Seems as if it has got you really bothered. Whatever will be will be
Your last sentence is undoubtedly true!
Best way to look at it for peace of mind
I suspect an almighty fudge will be the end result and no one will be very happy.
Looks like 20 years of "rehabilitation" by Charles and Camilla has been undone in a week lol!
Borders aren't just pretty lines, they enable control and taxation of goods. Differential taxes and soft borders makes smuggling profitable, and since criminals are the best smugglers it encourages criminality, and then you have that problem too.
This is a genuine problem for both states on a philosophical level. I've characterised UK/Ire relations as "UK pretends Ireland isn't independent, and Ireland pretends it is". For decades this stance has served both states well, but the implication of Brexit means they have to address this. Alanbrooke of this parish insists that Ire will operate in lockstep with UK, and he may well be right. And before Ire joined the Euro I would have expected Ire to follow UK out of EU on the same day, in the same way that they joined on the same day. But as they are in the Euro they are tied to the EU in the same way Greece is. They have wargamed leaving the EU and remaining in the Euro (which shows how worried they are), but the results were not encouraging.How this will play out I don't know.
Give freely, without thought of return.
To paraphrase Matthew 10:8
Without debt I'd still be saving up for my first house, with no hope of ever getting there because my savings would be earning no interest. Meanwhile I am renting off some rich bastard who must have inherited his wealth I guess.
I can't see it on the Parliament website.
Do you mean the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill?
Or maybe the Bill has not yet been introduced to Parliament?
http://services.parliament.uk/bills/