Charlotteville just wants to be able to have sovereingty over its own parks and statues.
Context is everything, a statue of Cromwell in Westminster has different symbolism to one in Drogheda for example.
You are neither American and nor are you in the Democratic party. I'm not sure what your point is really.
As for the statue, well, they aren't asking for a statue of Robert E Lee to be erected in downtown DC or LA.
So what. There shouldn't be any Confederate war leader statues except in museums. Like Nazi monuments.
Don't tell us, tell the families of yesterday's three casualties. I am sure they will see your POV that proposing the removal of the statue was, all things considered, for the best.
Charlotteville just wants to be able to have sovereingty over its own parks and statues.
Context is everything, a statue of Cromwell in Westminster has different symbolism to one in Drogheda for example.
You are neither American and nor are you in the Democratic party. I'm not sure what your point is really.
As for the statue, well, they aren't asking for a statue of Robert E Lee to be erected in downtown DC or LA.
So what. There shouldn't be any Confederate war leader statues except in museums. Like Nazi monuments.
Don't tell us, tell the families of yesterday's three casualties. I am sure they will see your POV that proposing the removal of the statue was, all things considered, for the best.
Charlotteville just wants to be able to have sovereingty over its own parks and statues.
Context is everything, a statue of Cromwell in Westminster has different symbolism to one in Drogheda for example.
You are neither American and nor are you in the Democratic party. I'm not sure what your point is really.
As for the statue, well, they aren't asking for a statue of Robert E Lee to be erected in downtown DC or LA.
So what. There shouldn't be any Confederate war leader statues except in museums. Like Nazi monuments.
Don't tell us, tell the families of yesterday's three casualties. I am sure they will see your POV that proposing the removal of the statue was, all things considered, for the best.
What seems entirely twattish is proposing to remove an inoffensive and rather good 100 year old equestrian statue, purely in the interests of being twattish and starting a fight. I hope those who instituted the idea are happy now, with the deaths of 2 policemen and one bystander yesterday. It's not like you are going to change the minds of people so stupid they have failed to notice that whites are already supreme in the US, by moving statues about.
It is pathetic all these cretins nowadays trying to rewrite history and taking offence at things that happened centuries ago. They are the clowns who should be getting arrested. Typical of losers throughout the years , blame someone else for you being crap and envious of other people getting on in life, even if they are dead a few hundred years.
"They are the clowns who should be getting arrested." You mean rather than the guy would deliberately rammed and killed a pedestrian?
OTH, I do broadly agree with wider sentiment about the stupidity of trying to re-write history and removal of historic statues does seem perverse - better to provide comprehensive information about the subject's achievements, good and bad.
(On the other, other hand how many statues of Adolf Hitler still exist? And would anyone argue for their retention? That's my problem - too many hands!)
Obviously not someone who rams a car into people regardless. What state would UK be in if we had to pull down all our previous heroes who would now be ne'er do wells. Full employment for years.
What seems entirely twattish is proposing to remove an inoffensive and rather good 100 year old equestrian statue, purely in the interests of being twattish and starting a fight. I hope those who instituted the idea are happy now, with the deaths of 2 policemen and one bystander yesterday. It's not like you are going to change the minds of people so stupid they have failed to notice that whites are already supreme in the US, by moving statues about.
It is pathetic all these cretins nowadays trying to rewrite history and taking offence at things that happened centuries ago. They are the clowns who should be getting arrested. Typical of losers throughout the years , blame someone else for you being crap and envious of other people getting on in life, even if they are dead a few hundred years.
"They are the clowns who should be getting arrested." You mean rather than the guy would deliberately rammed and killed a pedestrian?
OTH, I do broadly agree with wider sentiment about the stupidity of trying to re-write history and removal of historic statues does seem perverse - better to provide comprehensive information about the subject's achievements, good and bad.
(On the other, other hand how many statues of Adolf Hitler still exist? And would anyone argue for their retention? That's my problem - too many hands!)
Genuine question, is Robert E Lee comparable with Adolf?
If you go to Gori in Georgia, you will find a lot of statues of Joseph Stalin. For years, Croatia was not considered for EU membership because they refused to hand over war criminals who Croats considered heros.
It's very difficult to tell people what they should think of their own people. Was the statue of Robert E Lee causing any harm? Probably not.
Im thinking that the Violent Nazis just wanted an excuse to be violent.
If not that statue, then something else would have sufficed
Still morons trying to erase history are only asking for trouble.
Robert E Lee owned no slaves, was apparently opposed to slavery and thought the secession was a mistake. The problem with statues to him is not particularly what he believed but what those statues stand for today.
More PC bollox. Fit them better if they lived in the present rather than 150 years ago. Total halfwits.
Charlotteville just wants to be able to have sovereingty over its own parks and statues.
Context is everything, a statue of Cromwell in Westminster has different symbolism to one in Drogheda for example.
You are neither American and nor are you in the Democratic party. I'm not sure what your point is really.
As for the statue, well, they aren't asking for a statue of Robert E Lee to be erected in downtown DC or LA.
So what. There shouldn't be any Confederate war leader statues except in museums. Like Nazi monuments.
Don't tell us, tell the families of yesterday's three casualties. I am sure they will see your POV that proposing the removal of the statue was, all things considered, for the best.
Charlotteville just wants to be able to have sovereingty over its own parks and statues.
Context is everything, a statue of Cromwell in Westminster has different symbolism to one in Drogheda for example.
You are neither American and nor are you in the Democratic party. I'm not sure what your point is really.
As for the statue, well, they aren't asking for a statue of Robert E Lee to be erected in downtown DC or LA.
So what. There shouldn't be any Confederate war leader statues except in museums. Like Nazi monuments.
Don't tell us, tell the families of yesterday's three casualties. I am sure they will see your POV that proposing the removal of the statue was, all things considered, for the best.
They wouldn't have been in the helicopter if it weren't for the statue removal
I have heard this argument before and do not agree. IRA apologists frequently blamed civilian casualties on British forces by saying things like "if it wasn't for X they wouldn't have been there". I'm thinking particularly of the M62 coach bombing, where that excuse was used.
Violence should be blamed on the perpetrators. If you think there are extenuating causes then please say but ultimately it should not prevent responsibility being laid upon the perpetrators. People are responsible for what they do. Those proposing statue removal are not the perpetrators.
Corbyn & Trump condemn violence on 'all' sides :{}
Yep. Corbyn seems to get away with it.
Dan Hannan has a reasonably good article in the telegraph about why the left gets away with equivocation on leftist violence while the right does not. I'd go further than him and say that the BBC and other media outlets are now nothing more than communist front organisations.
Charlotteville just wants to be able to have sovereingty over its own parks and statues.
Context is everything, a statue of Cromwell in Westminster has different symbolism to one in Drogheda for example.
You are neither American and nor are you in the Democratic party. I'm not sure what your point is really.
As for the statue, well, they aren't asking for a statue of Robert E Lee to be erected in downtown DC or LA.
So what. There shouldn't be any Confederate war leader statues except in museums. Like Nazi monuments.
Don't tell us, tell the families of yesterday's three casualties. I am sure they will see your POV that proposing the removal of the statue was, all things considered, for the best.
Charlotteville just wants to be able to have sovereingty over its own parks and statues.
Context is everything, a statue of Cromwell in Westminster has different symbolism to one in Drogheda for example.
You are neither American and nor are you in the Democratic party. I'm not sure what your point is really.
As for the statue, well, they aren't asking for a statue of Robert E Lee to be erected in downtown DC or LA.
So what. There shouldn't be any Confederate war leader statues except in museums. Like Nazi monuments.
Don't tell us, tell the families of yesterday's three casualties. I am sure they will see your POV that proposing the removal of the statue was, all things considered, for the best.
In this world you have to know which side you are on.
That sounds good, but other available options are: there are more than two sides; I can see merit in both sides; I detest both sides; I am not interested; it is none of my business; I am on one side rather than the other but it may be prudent to keep quiet about it.. I am sure Heather's parents are over the moon that some twat who knew which side he was on started pratting about over statues.
It's not like anyone is in any doubt that the alt right are incredibly nasty and incredibly thick. So if you provoke them and incredibly stupid and nasty things are the result, how blameless are you?
Charlotteville just wants to be able to have sovereingty over its own parks and statues.
Context is everything, a statue of Cromwell in Westminster has different symbolism to one in Drogheda for example.
You are neither American and nor are you in the Democratic party. I'm not sure what your point is really.
As for the statue, well, they aren't asking for a statue of Robert E Lee to be erected in downtown DC or LA.
So what. There shouldn't be any Confederate war leader statues except in museums. Like Nazi monuments.
Don't tell us, tell the families of yesterday's three casualties. I am sure they will see your POV that proposing the removal of the statue was, all things considered, for the best.
Robert E Lee owned no slaves, was apparently opposed to slavery and thought the secession was a mistake. The problem with statues to him is not particularly what he believed but what those statues stand for today.
Yes, the general consensus was that he was a gent who did his duty. But his duty was fighting rather brilliantly for a racist state that thought the slavery of blacks was not just ok but the natural order of things. His troops did appalling things to northern Black troops found fighting them.
I find it odd that it has taken so long for the US to come to terms with this. The battles of the early 60s where Federal law and power was used to end segregation and disenfranchisement really should have cleaned this up too. Americans who like to glorify the Confederacy and play at battle reconstructions really need to think a bit more about what they are commemorating.
Of course there is no reason for the current generation to feel particularly ashamed of what their great, great grandfathers thought and fought for but they should reflect how their actions look to the great, great grandchildren of their former slaves.
David, come on, you , mean like all the UK nutters who reenact the civil wars , etc etc in the UK. The people whinging about something from 150 years ago need to go get a life.
Charlotteville just wants to be able to have sovereingty over its own parks and statues.
Context is everything, a statue of Cromwell in Westminster has different symbolism to one in Drogheda for example.
You are neither American and nor are you in the Democratic party. I'm not sure what your point is really.
As for the statue, well, they aren't asking for a statue of Robert E Lee to be erected in downtown DC or LA.
So what. There shouldn't be any Confederate war leader statues except in museums. Like Nazi monuments.
Don't tell us, tell the families of yesterday's three casualties. I am sure they will see your POV that proposing the removal of the statue was, all things considered, for the best.
Charlotteville just wants to be able to have sovereingty over its own parks and statues.
Context is everything, a statue of Cromwell in Westminster has different symbolism to one in Drogheda for example.
You are neither American and nor are you in the Democratic party. I'm not sure what your point is really.
As for the statue, well, they aren't asking for a statue of Robert E Lee to be erected in downtown DC or LA.
So what. There shouldn't be any Confederate war leader statues except in museums. Like Nazi monuments.
Don't tell us, tell the families of yesterday's three casualties. I am sure they will see your POV that proposing the removal of the statue was, all things considered, for the best.
In this world you have to know which side you are on.
That sounds good, but other available options are: there are more than two sides; I can see merit in both sides; I detest both sides; I am not interested; it is none of my business; I am on one side rather than the other but it may be prudent to keep quiet about it.. I am sure Heather's parents are over the moon that some twat who knew which side he was on started pratting about over statues.
It's not like anyone is in any doubt that the alt right are incredibly nasty and incredibly thick. So if you provoke them and incredibly stupid and nasty things are the result, how blameless are you?
Yep - and that's what people were saying about Charlie Hebdo, too.
It's not like anyone is in any doubt that the alt right are incredibly nasty and incredibly thick. So if you provoke them and incredibly stupid and nasty things are the result, how blameless are you?
As I said to isam below, responsibility must lay with the perpetrators, so I disagree with the implications of your second statement ("...if you provoke them and incredibly stupid and nasty things are the result, how blameless are you?..."). Any given action can be blamed on somebody else and "He made me do it" is an excuse that should be left in primary school.
Charlotteville just wants to be able to have sovereingty over its own parks and statues.
Context is everything, a statue of Cromwell in Westminster has different symbolism to one in Drogheda for example.
You are neither American and nor are you in the Democratic party. I'm not sure what your point is really.
As for the statue, well, they aren't asking for a statue of Robert E Lee to be erected in downtown DC or LA.
So what. There shouldn't be any Confederate war leader statues except in museums. Like Nazi monuments.
Don't tell us, tell the families of yesterday's three casualties. I am sure they will see your POV that proposing the removal of the statue was, all things considered, for the best.
In this world you have to know which side you are on.
That sounds good, but other available options are: there are more than two sides; I can see merit in both sides; I detest both sides; I am not interested; it is none of my business; I am on one side rather than the other but it may be prudent to keep quiet about it.. I am sure Heather's parents are over the moon that some twat who knew which side he was on started pratting about over statues.
It's not like anyone is in any doubt that the alt right are incredibly nasty and incredibly thick. So if you provoke them and incredibly stupid and nasty things are the result, how blameless are you?
Am sure you would say the same thing over islamist terrorists. Just don't provoke them.
The people who made the decision to remove the statue were voted in by residents of Charlottesville?
was it in their manifesto
Americans don't have manifesto's as such.
I've got 12 minutes before I get back to work so I'll chase this. Is this really the case? Do the parties not write down their promises? Genuine question.
In all seriousness, why do media outlets still report what David Miliband of all people says? He's not been a senior government minister for the best part of a decade now, and he has no following in either the country or within any political party.
It would be like giving front-page billing to the likes of Margaret Beckett or David Blunkett and their musings on the issues of the day.
The media luvs luvvies and they don't come luvvlier than a Miliband! they even overlokk the fact he's Jewish which is more than can be said for his old party.
Charlotteville just wants to be able to have sovereingty over its own parks and statues.
Context is everything, a statue of Cromwell in Westminster has different symbolism to one in Drogheda for example.
You are neither American and nor are you in the Democratic party. I'm not sure what your point is really.
As for the statue, well, they aren't asking for a statue of Robert E Lee to be erected in downtown DC or LA.
So what. There shouldn't be any Confederate war leader statues except in museums. Like Nazi monuments.
Don't tell us, tell the families of yesterday's three casualties. I am sure they will see your POV that proposing the removal of the statue was, all things considered, for the best.
The people who made the decision to remove the statue were voted in by residents of Charlottesville?
was it in their manifesto
No idea - do city councillers even have manifestos? Sounds as though this guy was always clear he wanted to remove Confederate monuments.
"By 2016, Wes Bellamy, another Charlottesville city councilor and the city’s vice mayor, had become a champion of efforts to remove Confederate monuments. At a news conference in front of the Lee statue in March of that year, he said the City Council would appoint a commission to discuss the issue....
The City Council established its special commission in May 2016. Later that year, it issued a report suggesting that the city could either relocate the Lee statue or transform it with the “inclusion of new accurate historical information.”....
But in February, the City Council voted to remove the statue from the park. Opponents of the move sued in March, arguing that the city did not have the authority to do so under state law."
They wouldn't have been in the helicopter if it weren't for the statue removal
I have heard this argument before and do not agree. IRA apologists frequently blamed civilian casualties on British forces by saying things like "if it wasn't for X they wouldn't have been there". I'm thinking particularly of the M62 coach bombing, where that excuse was used.
Violence should be blamed on the perpetrators. If you think there are extenuating causes then please say but ultimately it should not prevent responsibility being laid upon the perpetrators. People are responsible for what they do. Those proposing statue removal are not the perpetrators.
I just responded to a post saying '2 were in a heliocopter', which accepted the premise of the trouble being over the statue's removal
Though it is in the small print at the end of the bash Theresa article.
"However, the Conservatives have bounced back in the head-to-head between the parties to enjoy a three-point lead in voting intention, by 42 per cent to 39 per cent."
Yup - but one can hardly expect a thread header on such a poll can we. It is simply not suitable for luvvieland publication!
Charlotteville just wants to be able to have sovereingty over its own parks and statues.
Context is everything, a statue of Cromwell in Westminster has different symbolism to one in Drogheda for example.
You are neither American and nor are you in the Democratic party. I'm not sure what your point is really.
As for the statue, well, they aren't asking for a statue of Robert E Lee to be erected in downtown DC or LA.
So what. There shouldn't be any Confederate war leader statues except in museums. Like Nazi monuments.
Don't tell us, tell the families of yesterday's three casualties. I am sure they will see your POV that proposing the removal of the statue was, all things considered, for the best.
They wouldn't have been in the helicopter if it weren't for the statue removal
I have heard this argument before and do not agree. IRA apologists frequently blamed civilian casualties on British forces by saying things like "if it wasn't for X they wouldn't have been there". I'm thinking particularly of the M62 coach bombing, where that excuse was used.
Violence should be blamed on the perpetrators. If you think there are extenuating causes then please say but ultimately it should not prevent responsibility being laid upon the perpetrators. People are responsible for what they do. Those proposing statue removal are not the perpetrators.
I just responded to a post saying '2 were in a heliocopter', which accepted the premise of the trouble being over the statue's removal
O/T but in happier news the BBC reports that 'village side Dorchester-on-Thames score 40 off final over to earn improbable win' There were a couple of no balls in the final over, but it's still a good effort!
The Police should just withdraw from the park, let both sides go at each other for a couple of hours, then arrest anyone left alive and charge for them all wth murder. Then take the statue down. It's win-win.
Charlotteville just wants to be able to have sovereingty over its own parks and statues.
Context is everything, a statue of Cromwell in Westminster has different symbolism to one in Drogheda for example.
You are neither American and nor are you in the Democratic party. I'm not sure what your point is really.
As for the statue, well, they aren't asking for a statue of Robert E Lee to be erected in downtown DC or LA.
So what. There shouldn't be any Confederate war leader statues except in museums. Like Nazi monuments.
Don't tell us, tell the families of yesterday's three casualties. I am sure they will see your POV that proposing the removal of the statue was, all things considered, for the best.
In this world you have to know which side you are on.
That sounds good, but other available options are: there are more than two sides; I can see merit in both sides; I detest both sides; I am not interested; it is none of my business; I am on one side rather than the other but it may be prudent to keep quiet about it.. I am sure Heather's parents are over the moon that some twat who knew which side he was on started pratting about over statues.
It's not like anyone is in any doubt that the alt right are incredibly nasty and incredibly thick. So if you provoke them and incredibly stupid and nasty things are the result, how blameless are you?
Am sure you would say the same thing over islamist terrorists. Just don't provoke them.
What a breathtakingly dim post. Yes, I would counsel against, let's say, campaigning to have a mosque demolished merely to make a point. Happy now?
Charlotteville just wants to be able to have sovereingty over its own parks and statues.
Context is everything, a statue of Cromwell in Westminster has different symbolism to one in Drogheda for example.
You are neither American and nor are you in the Democratic party. I'm not sure what your point is really.
As for the statue, well, they aren't asking for a statue of Robert E Lee to be erected in downtown DC or LA.
So what. There shouldn't be any Confederate war leader statues except in museums. Like Nazi monuments.
Don't tell us, tell the families of yesterday's three casualties. I am sure they will see your POV that proposing the removal of the statue was, all things considered, for the best.
In this world you have to know which side you are on.
That sounds good, but other available options are: there are more than two sides; I can see merit in both sides; I detest both sides; I am not interested; it is none of my business; I am on one side rather than the other but it may be prudent to keep quiet about it.. I am sure Heather's parents are over the moon that some twat who knew which side he was on started pratting about over statues.
It's not like anyone is in any doubt that the alt right are incredibly nasty and incredibly thick. So if you provoke them and incredibly stupid and nasty things are the result, how blameless are you?
Am sure you would say the same thing over islamist terrorists. Just don't provoke them.
What a breathtakingly dim post. Yes, I would counsel against, let's say, campaigning to have a mosque demolished merely to make a point. Happy now?
Charlotteville just wants to be able to have sovereingty over its own parks and statues.
Context is everything, a statue of Cromwell in Westminster has different symbolism to one in Drogheda for example.
You are neither American and nor are you in the Democratic party. I'm not sure what your point is really.
As for the statue, well, they aren't asking for a statue of Robert E Lee to be erected in downtown DC or LA.
So what. There shouldn't be any Confederate war leader statues except in museums. Like Nazi monuments.
Don't tell us, tell the families of yesterday's three casualties. I am sure they will see your POV that proposing the removal of the statue was, all things considered, for the best.
In this world you have to know which side you are on.
That sounds good, but other available options are: there are more than two sides; I can see merit in both sides; I detest both sides; I am not interested; it is none of my business; I am on one side rather than the other but it may be prudent to keep quiet about it.. I am sure Heather's parents are over the moon that some twat who knew which side he was on started pratting about over statues.
It's not like anyone is in any doubt that the alt right are incredibly nasty and incredibly thick. So if you provoke them and incredibly stupid and nasty things are the result, how blameless are you?
Am sure you would say the same thing over islamist terrorists. Just don't provoke them.
What a breathtakingly dim post. Yes, I would counsel against, let's say, campaigning to have a mosque demolished merely to make a point. Happy now?
Isn't demolishing mosques the policy of IS?
I think some mosques are more demolishable than others? I genuinely do not know why they do this.
Robert E Lee owned no slaves, was apparently opposed to slavery and thought the secession was a mistake. The problem with statues to him is not particularly what he believed but what those statues stand for today.
Washington and Jefferson were slave owners, but the difference is that their cause was not the perpetuation of slavery, the Confederacy was. Symbols matter a great deal, for example EU stars and Blue passports for Brexiteers.
The people defending these statues are not academic military historians, they are overt white supremacists and racists.
But surely he could have sought to defend his homeland by working to remove those ruling its affairs at the time. Loyalty to humanity overrides loyalty to country or a particular state. Had the Nazis been British, I would have welcomed liberation by a foreign power.
He voted against them, campaigned against them - he was a former Governor and carried significant sway (he was the leader of the Tennessee Whigs), but in a time of war he felt he had no choice but to fight for his country.
I have never believed in fighting for my country when it is clearly guided by evil. There were many anti-Nazi Germans who would have liked to have seen the Wehrmacht defeated long before it happened in April 1945. On the same basis, there were some of us who had no wish to see the British and US military triumph in Iraq- in the context of such forces being used as instruments of aggression.
The only Germans who came close to doing something effective to resist Hitler and his regime were embodiments of the crusty, historically anti-Semitic and anti-Catholic Junkers class from east of the Elbe. I suppose it goes some way to atoning for the fact that it was their party (the DNVP) which helped the Nazis into power in the first place.
I would have thought that most KPD and SPD voters from the 1932 elections would have welcomed a much earlier defeat of Hitler by the Allies.
Robert E Lee owned no slaves, was apparently opposed to slavery and thought the secession was a mistake. The problem with statues to him is not particularly what he believed but what those statues stand for today.
Washington and Jefferson were slave owners, but the difference is that their cause was not the perpetuation of slavery, the Confederacy was. Symbols matter a great deal, for example EU stars and Blue passports for Brexiteers.
The people defending these statues are not academic military historians, they are overt white supremacists and racists.
But surely he could have sought to defend his homeland by working to remove those ruling its affairs at the time. Loyalty to humanity overrides loyalty to country or a particular state. Had the Nazis been British, I would have welcomed liberation by a foreign power.
He voted against them, campaigned against them - he was a former Governor and carried significant sway (he was the leader of the Tennessee Whigs), but in a time of war he felt he had no choice but to fight for his country.
I have never believed in fighting for my country when it is clearly guided by evil. There were many anti-Nazi Germans who would have liked to have seen the Wehrmacht defeated long before it happened in April 1945. On the same basis, there were some of us who had no wish to see the British and US military triumph in Iraq- in the context of such forces being used as instruments of aggression.
The only Germans who came close to doing something effective to resist Hitler and his regime were embodiments of the crusty, historically anti-Semitic and anti-Catholic Junkers class from east of the Elbe. I suppose it goes some way to atoning for the fact that it was their party (the DNVP) which helped the Nazis into power in the first place.
I would have thought that most KPD and SPD voters from the 1932 elections would have welcomed a much earlier defeat of Hitler by the Allies.
That may be so, but it wasn't what Mr Blue drew attention to!
The people who made the decision to remove the statue were voted in by residents of Charlottesville?
was it in their manifesto
Americans don't have manifesto's as such.
I know that , but did they get elected based on promising to rid the town of Confederate statues. I doubt it. They sound as dumb as the turkeys that get elected here.
Robert E Lee owned no slaves, was apparently opposed to slavery and thought the secession was a mistake. The problem with statues to him is not particularly what he believed but what those statues stand for today.
Washington and Jefferson were slave owners, but the difference is that their cause was not the perpetuation of slavery, the Confederacy was. Symbols matter a great deal, for example EU stars and Blue passports for Brexiteers.
The people defending these statues are not academic military historians, they are overt white supremacists and racists.
But surely he could have sought to defend his homeland by working to remove those ruling its affairs at the time. Loyalty to humanity overrides loyalty to country or a particular state. Had the Nazis been British, I would have welcomed liberation by a foreign power.
He voted against them, campaigned against them - he was a former Governor and carried significant sway (he was the leader of the Tennessee Whigs), but in a time of war he felt he had no choice but to fight for his country.
I have never believed in fighting for my country when it is clearly guided by evil. There were many anti-Nazi Germans who would have liked to have seen the Wehrmacht defeated long before it happened in April 1945. On the same basis, there were some of us who had no wish to see the British and US military triumph in Iraq- in the context of such forces being used as instruments of aggression.
The only Germans who came close to doing something effective to resist Hitler and his regime were embodiments of the crusty, historically anti-Semitic and anti-Catholic Junkers class from east of the Elbe. I suppose it goes some way to atoning for the fact that it was their party (the DNVP) which helped the Nazis into power in the first place.
I would have thought that most KPD and SPD voters from the 1932 elections would have welcomed a much earlier defeat of Hitler by the Allies.
The Nazis were very good at locking up and killing their political opponents. By the time WW2 was underway, the path was clear except for a few old school Juncker types and some incredibly brave Christian pacifist groups.
Mr. Felix, recall hearing on QI that the origin of lynch mob is contrary to its general use. Apparently, a powerful family (in Ireland, I think) had a stupid elder son who committed murder, but the mayor (the father) knew his son would never be convicted because the jury would be frightened to do so. Instead, he summarily hanged his son.
Robert E Lee owned no slaves, was apparently opposed to slavery and thought the secession was a mistake. The problem with statues to him is not particularly what he believed but what those statues stand for today.
Washington and Jefferson were slave owners, but the difference is that their cause was not the perpetuation of slavery, the Confederacy was. Symbols matter a great deal, for example EU stars and Blue passports for Brexiteers.
The people defending these statues are not academic military historians, they are overt white supremacists and racists.
But surely he could have sought to defend his homeland by working to remove those ruling its affairs at the time. Loyalty to humanity overrides loyalty to country or a particular state. Had the Nazis been British, I would have welcomed liberation by a foreign power.
He voted against them, campaigned against them - he was a former Governor and carried significant sway (he was the leader of the Tennessee Whigs), but in a time of war he felt he had no choice but to fight for his country.
I have never believed in .
The only Germans who came close to doing something effective to resist Hitler and his regime were embodiments of the crusty, historically anti-Semitic and anti-Catholic Junkers class from east of the Elbe. I suppose it goes some way to atoning for the fact that it was their party (the DNVP) which helped the Nazis into power in the first place.
I would have thought that most KPD and SPD voters from the 1932 elections would have welcomed a much earlier defeat of Hitler by the Allies.
Hmm, not sure about that. The Nazis killed leaders and intellectuals but seemed to recruit many to the cause.
The excelleny "Topography of Terror" exhibit in Belin covers a lot of how the Nazis stamped out internal dissent before moving on to external enemies.
There wasn't much in the way of German defeatism even in 1945 when the writing was clearly on the wall. Distinguishing between the motivations of a reluctant conscript and a fervent Nazi was not easy on the battlefield. The self serving Wehrmacht memoirs often record anti Nazi feeling, but the actions of the Wehrmacht show how culpable they really were.
Though it is in the small print at the end of the bash Theresa article.
"However, the Conservatives have bounced back in the head-to-head between the parties to enjoy a three-point lead in voting intention, by 42 per cent to 39 per cent."
Yup - but one can hardly expect a thread header on such a poll can we. It is simply not suitable for luvvieland publication!
This is the pollster whose eve of GE poll had Con 46 Lab 33 and you want a thread done on them ?????
Robert E Lee owned no slaves, was apparently opposed to slavery and thought the secession was a mistake. The problem with statues to him is not particularly what he believed but what those statues stand for today.
Washington and Jefferson were slave owners, but the difference is that their cause was not the perpetuation of slavery, the Confederacy was. Symbols matter a great deal, for example EU stars and Blue passports for Brexiteers.
The people defending these statues are not academic military historians, they are overt white supremacists and racists.
But surely he could have sought to defend his homeland by working to remove those ruling its affairs at the time. Loyalty to humanity overrides loyalty to country or a particular state. Had the Nazis been British, I would have welcomed liberation by a foreign power.
He voted against them, campaigned against them - he was a former Governor and carried significant sway (he was the leader of the Tennessee Whigs), but in a time of war he felt he had no choice but to fight for his country.
I have never believed in fighting for my country when it is clearly guided by evil. There were many anti-Nazi Germans who would have liked to have seen the Wehrmacht defeated long before it happened in April 1945. On the same basis, there were some of us who had no wish to see the British and US military triumph in Iraq- in the context of such forces being used as instruments of aggression.
The only Germans who came close to doing something effective to resist Hitler and his regime were embodiments of the crusty, historically anti-Semitic and anti-Catholic Junkers class from east of the Elbe. I suppose it goes some way to atoning for the fact that it was their party (the DNVP) which helped the Nazis into power in the first place.
I would have thought that most KPD and SPD voters from the 1932 elections would have welcomed a much earlier defeat of Hitler by the Allies.
Most KPD and SPD voters (as opposed to activists) were pretty supportive of the regime. They were very happy to see Germany restored to primacy in Europe, and the NSDAP's economic policies proved beneficial to the skilled working classes.
I think given Trump's poor current poll ratings the Democrats will take the House next year but I also still think Trump is more likely than not to be re-elected. Kasich or another moderate may win New Hampshire but Trump would easily beat Graham in Iowa and would carry Florida and most of the south and Midwest and New York, as long as the base remains with him he will win the GOP primary. While in the general election the Democrats will almost certainly pick a beatable left/liberal like Warren or Sanders in their primaries
Though it is in the small print at the end of the bash Theresa article.
"However, the Conservatives have bounced back in the head-to-head between the parties to enjoy a three-point lead in voting intention, by 42 per cent to 39 per cent."
Yup - but one can hardly expect a thread header on such a poll can we. It is simply not suitable for luvvieland publication!
This is the pollster whose eve of GE poll had Con 46 Lab 33 and you want a thread done on them ?????
They are no longer adjusting as they did in 2017 but are back to 2015 methodology
Charlotteville just wants to be able to have sovereingty over its own parks and statues.
Context is everything, a statue of Cromwell in Westminster has different symbolism to one in Drogheda for example.
You are neither American and nor are you in the Democratic party. I'm not sure what your point is really.
As for the statue, well, they aren't asking for a statue of Robert E Lee to be erected in downtown DC or LA.
My point is simple. I support the democratic right of Charlotteville (and other places in the world) to choose their own statues and park names.
I agree, but if the City of Westminster Council decided to take down the statue of Churchill in Parliament Square because some think he was a racist, I'd be a little bit annoyed even though I don't live in Westminster.
Charlottesville is not a capitol city, where national symbols have a national rather than local significance.
It does show how Virginia and North Carolina are changing. 60 years ago Charlottesville closed its schools rather than desegregate them.
It also shows how Ohio has changed, the killer coming from a Unionist state whose forces fought General Lee, and also which sent many troops to fight real Nazis rather than wannabe nazis.
That's a fair point, but I don't know any towns with Churchill statues (perhaps Churchill College Cambridge? - I went to the Winston Churchill Secondary School and that might have a bust of him) so had to go for Parliament Square.
There is a statue of Winston Churchill on Woodford Green.
There is also one near Chartwell on Westerham Village Green. There is one here in Epping too in the High Street where he used to speak as the local MP (incidentally I am standing in the Epping Hemnall Town Council by election on Thursday for the Tories against the LDs)
Robert E Lee owned no slaves, was apparently opposed to slavery and thought the secession was a mistake. The problem with statues to him is not particularly what he believed but what those statues stand for today.
Washington and Jefferson were slave owners, but the difference is that their cause was not the perpetuation of slavery, the Confederacy was. Symbols matter a great deal, for example EU stars and Blue passports for Brexiteers.
The people defending these statues are not academic military historians, they are overt white supremacists and racists.
The only Germans who came close to doing something effective to resist Hitler and his regime were embodiments of the crusty, historically anti-Semitic and anti-Catholic Junkers class from east of the Elbe. I suppose it goes some way to atoning for the fact that it was their party (the DNVP) which helped the Nazis into power in the first place.
I would have thought that most KPD and SPD voters from the 1932 elections would have welcomed a much earlier defeat of Hitler by the Allies.
Hmm, not sure about that. The Nazis killed leaders and intellectuals but seemed to recruit many to the cause.
The excelleny "Topography of Terror" exhibit in Belin covers a lot of how the Nazis stamped out internal dissent before moving on to external enemies.
There wasn't much in the way of German defeatism even in 1945 when the writing was clearly on the wall. Distinguishing between the motivations of a reluctant conscript and a fervent Nazi was not easy on the battlefield. The self serving Wehrmacht memoirs often record anti Nazi feeling, but the actions of the Wehrmacht show how culpable they really were.
I have just returned from a Third Reich Battlefield Tour and visited that 'Topography of Terror' exhibition a week ago today! It is indeed very impressive - as was the memorial to Sophie Scholl and the White Rose Society at Munich university.. I am not suggesting that reluctant conscripts were on the verge of insurrection etc, but I suspect that many would have been happy to have seen Hitler toppled despite not being part of such a conspiracy themselves.
Robert E Lee owned no slaves, was apparently opposed to slavery and thought the secession was a mistake. The problem with statues to him is not particularly what he believed but what those statues stand for today.
Washington and Jefferson were slave owners, but the difference is that their cause was not the perpetuation of slavery, the Confederacy was. Symbols matter a great deal, for example EU stars and Blue passports for Brexiteers.
The people defending these statues are not academic military historians, they are overt white supremacists and racists.
But surely he could have sought to defend his homeland by working to remove those ruling its affairs at the time. Loyalty to humanity overrides loyalty to country or a particular state. Had the Nazis been British, I would have welcomed liberation by a foreign power.
He voted against them, campaigned against them - he was a former Governor and carried significant sway (he was the leader of the Tennessee Whigs), but in a time of war he felt he had no choice but to fight for his country.
I have never believed in fighting for my country when it is clearly guided by evil. There were many anti-Nazi Germans who would have liked to have seen the Wehrmacht defeated long before it happened in April 1945. On the same basis, there were some of us who had no wish to see the British and US military triumph in Iraq- in the context of such forces being used as instruments of aggression.
The only Germans who came close to doing something effective to resist Hitler and his regime were embodiments of the crusty, historically anti-Semitic and anti-Catholic Junkers class from east of the Elbe. I suppose it goes some way to atoning for the fact that it was their party (the DNVP) which helped the Nazis into power in the first place.
I would have thought that most KPD and SPD voters from the 1932 elections would have welcomed a much earlier defeat of Hitler by the Allies.
Most KPD and SPD voters (as opposed to activists) were pretty supportive of the regime. They were very happy to see Germany restored to primacy in Europe, and the NSDAP's economic policies proved beneficial to the skilled working classes.
The workers got some short term benefit, but by 1943 it was clear that they and their families were not going to thrive...
Though it is in the small print at the end of the bash Theresa article.
"However, the Conservatives have bounced back in the head-to-head between the parties to enjoy a three-point lead in voting intention, by 42 per cent to 39 per cent."
Yup - but one can hardly expect a thread header on such a poll can we. It is simply not suitable for luvvieland publication!
This is the pollster whose eve of GE poll had Con 46 Lab 33 and you want a thread done on them ?????
I have no care or wish to have anything from centuries ago removed or fought over , it is just as pathetic as the carry on we have here with idiots marching about battles from 1690. They are morons of low intellect who cannot live in the present. Imagined wrong doings from the distant past are pathetic in all cases, you cannot rewrite history by stupid PC correctness perpetrated by pseudo intellectual pygmies.
Though it is in the small print at the end of the bash Theresa article.
"However, the Conservatives have bounced back in the head-to-head between the parties to enjoy a three-point lead in voting intention, by 42 per cent to 39 per cent."
Yup - but one can hardly expect a thread header on such a poll can we. It is simply not suitable for luvvieland publication!
This is the pollster whose eve of GE poll had Con 46 Lab 33 and you want a thread done on them ?????
Though it is in the small print at the end of the bash Theresa article.
"However, the Conservatives have bounced back in the head-to-head between the parties to enjoy a three-point lead in voting intention, by 42 per cent to 39 per cent."
Yup - but one can hardly expect a thread header on such a poll can we. It is simply not suitable for luvvieland publication!
This is the pollster whose eve of GE poll had Con 46 Lab 33 and you want a thread done on them ?????
Though it is in the small print at the end of the bash Theresa article.
"However, the Conservatives have bounced back in the head-to-head between the parties to enjoy a three-point lead in voting intention, by 42 per cent to 39 per cent."
Yup - but one can hardly expect a thread header on such a poll can we. It is simply not suitable for luvvieland publication!
This is the pollster whose eve of GE poll had Con 46 Lab 33 and you want a thread done on them ?????
Though it is in the small print at the end of the bash Theresa article.
"However, the Conservatives have bounced back in the head-to-head between the parties to enjoy a three-point lead in voting intention, by 42 per cent to 39 per cent."
Yup - but one can hardly expect a thread header on such a poll can we. It is simply not suitable for luvvieland publication!
This is the pollster whose eve of GE poll had Con 46 Lab 33 and you want a thread done on them ?????
Though it is in the small print at the end of the bash Theresa article.
"However, the Conservatives have bounced back in the head-to-head between the parties to enjoy a three-point lead in voting intention, by 42 per cent to 39 per cent."
Yup - but one can hardly expect a thread header on such a poll can we. It is simply not suitable for luvvieland publication!
This is the pollster whose eve of GE poll had Con 46 Lab 33 and you want a thread done on them ?????
Charlotteville just wants to be able to have sovereingty over its own parks and statues.
Context is everything, a statue of Cromwell in Westminster has different symbolism to one in Drogheda for example.
You are neither American and nor are you in the Democratic party. I'm not sure what your point is really.
As for the statue, well, they aren't asking for a statue of Robert E Lee to be erected in downtown DC or LA.
My point is simple. I support the democratic right of Charlotteville (and other places in the world) to choose their own statues and park names.
I agree, but if the City of Westminster Council decided to take down the statue of Churchill in Parliament Square because some think he was a racist, I'd be a little bit annoyed even though I don't live in Westminster.
Charlottesville is not a capitol city, where national symbols have a national rather than local significance.
It does show how Virginia and North Carolina are changing. 60 years ago Charlottesville closed its schools rather than desegregate them.
It also shows how Ohio has changed, the killer coming from a Unionist state whose forces fought General Lee, and also which sent many troops to fight real Nazis rather than wannabe nazis.
That's a fair point, but I don't know any towns with Churchill statues (perhaps Churchill College Cambridge? - I went to the Winston Churchill Secondary School and that might have a bust of him) so had to go for Parliament Square.
There is a statue of Winston Churchill on Woodford Green.
There is also one near Chartwell on Westerham Village Green. There is one here in Epping too in the High Street where he used to speak as the local MP (incidentally I am standing in the Epping Hemnall Town Council by election on Thursday for the Tories against the LDs)
Charlotteville just wants to be able to have sovereingty over its own parks and statues.
Context is everything, a statue of Cromwell in Westminster has different symbolism to one in Drogheda for example.
You are neither American and nor are you in the Democratic party. I'm not sure what your point is really.
As for the statue, well, they aren't asking for a statue of Robert E Lee to be erected in downtown DC or LA.
My point is simple. I support the democratic right of Charlotteville (and other places in the world) to choose their own statues and park names.
I agree, but if the City of Westminster Council decided to take down the statue of Churchill in Parliament Square because some think he was a racist, I'd be a little bit annoyed even though I don't live in Westminster.
Charlottesville is not a capitol city, where national symbols have a national rather than local significance.
It does show how Virginia and North Carolina are changing. 60 years ago Charlottesville closed its schools rather than desegregate them.
It also shows how Ohio has changed, the killer coming from a Unionist state whose forces fought General Lee, and also which sent many troops to fight real Nazis rather than wannabe nazis.
That's a fair point, but I don't know .
There is a statue of Winston Churchill on Woodford Green.
There is also one near Chartwell on Westerham Village Green. There is one here in Epping too in the High Street where he used to speak as the local MP (incidentally I am standing in the Epping Hemnall Town Council by election on Thursday for the Tories against the LDs)
Good luck
Thanks, will be a tough battle, although the Tories hold this town council seat the last town council elections were in May 2015 when Cameron won his majority and 2/3 of the ward district councillors are LD (and they are going hard on the local plan). Nevertheless have now got my pledge letters and leaflets out, promised to push for brownbelt land to be the focus of any new development and been canvassing Conservatives and possibles so if we get our vote out could be close, will post the result on Friday morning. I at least want to get a reasonable vote in preparation for the next town council elections in 2019 even if I don't win on Thursday
Though it is in the small print at the end of the bash Theresa article.
"However, the Conservatives have bounced back in the head-to-head between the parties to enjoy a three-point lead in voting intention, by 42 per cent to 39 per cent."
Yup - but one can hardly expect a thread header on such a poll can we. It is simply not suitable for luvvieland publication!
This is the pollster whose eve of GE poll had Con 46 Lab 33 and you want a thread done on them ?????
They are no longer adjusting as they did in 2017 but are back to 2015 methodology
Yeah but their 2015 methodology was as useful as a chocolate fireguard.
Dr. Foxinsox, an attempt to oust her might really anger the backbenchers.
Given the recent history of Boris buggering up everything he attempts, my forecast is as follows: Boris tries to become leader the PCP is sufficiently annoyed his prospects are annihilated he ceases to be Foreign Secretary there is much rejoicing
Though it is in the small print at the end of the bash Theresa article.
"However, the Conservatives have bounced back in the head-to-head between the parties to enjoy a three-point lead in voting intention, by 42 per cent to 39 per cent."
Yup - but one can hardly expect a thread header on such a poll can we. It is simply not suitable for luvvieland publication!
This is the pollster whose eve of GE poll had Con 46 Lab 33 and you want a thread done on them ?????
They are no longer adjusting as they did in 2017 but are back to 2015 methodology
Yeah but their 2015 methodology was as useful as a chocolate fireguard.
Their final 2015 GE poll had it Con 34% Lab 34%
Still, better than some pollsters did at that general election, at least they did not have Labour ahead
Dr. Foxinsox, an attempt to oust her might really anger the backbenchers.
Given the recent history of Boris buggering up everything he attempts, my forecast is as follows: Boris tries to become leader the PCP is sufficiently annoyed his prospects are annihilated he ceases to be Foreign Secretary there is much rejoicing
As today's poll shows Boris, for all his faults, remains more popular with the public than most of his rivals which still gives him a shot, even if MPs put him to the membership only through gritted teeth they want someone to beat Corbyn above all
Dr. Foxinsox, an attempt to oust her might really anger the backbenchers.
Given the recent history of Boris buggering up everything he attempts, my forecast is as follows: Boris tries to become leader the PCP is sufficiently annoyed his prospects are annihilated he ceases to be Foreign Secretary there is much rejoicing
I'm even more confident on Boris not being Theresa May's successor than I was that he wouldn't be Cameron's successor.
The Moggasm is explained in part by the fact the Tory party has fallen out of love with Boris.
Dr. Foxinsox, an attempt to oust her might really anger the backbenchers.
Given the recent history of Boris buggering up everything he attempts, my forecast is as follows: Boris tries to become leader the PCP is sufficiently annoyed his prospects are annihilated he ceases to be Foreign Secretary there is much rejoicing
I'm even more confident on Boris not being Theresa May's successor than I was that he wouldn't be Cameron's successor.
The Moggasm is explained in part by the fact the Tory party has fallen out of love with Boris.
If Mogg starts showing popularity in the polls with the general public as well as Tories that may be the case, for now Boris is still very much in the frame in my view
Dr. Foxinsox, an attempt to oust her might really anger the backbenchers.
Given the recent history of Boris buggering up everything he attempts, my forecast is as follows: Boris tries to become leader the PCP is sufficiently annoyed his prospects are annihilated he ceases to be Foreign Secretary there is much rejoicing
I'm even more confident on Boris not being Theresa May's successor than I was that he wouldn't be Cameron's successor.
The Moggasm is explained in part by the fact the Tory party has fallen out of love with Boris.
Dr. Foxinsox, an attempt to oust her might really anger the backbenchers.
Given the recent history of Boris buggering up everything he attempts, my forecast is as follows: Boris tries to become leader the PCP is sufficiently annoyed his prospects are annihilated he ceases to be Foreign Secretary there is much rejoicing
I'm even more confident on Boris not being Theresa May's successor than I was that he wouldn't be Cameron's successor.
The Moggasm is explained in part by the fact the Tory party has fallen out of love with Boris.
Yes, BoJo is now too tainted. JRM is on manoeuvres though...
An interesting fact for soccer fans - Huddersfield Town have now been longer at the top of the Premier League in the last two years than Liverpool and Tottenham combined!
Charlotteville just wants to be able to have sovereingty over its own parks and statues.
Context is everything, a statue of Cromwell in Westminster has different symbolism to one in Drogheda for example.
You are neither American and nor are you in the Democratic party. I'm not sure what your point is really.
As for the statue, well, they aren't asking for a statue of Robert E Lee to be erected in downtown DC or LA.
So what. There shouldn't be any Confederate war leader statues except in museums. Like Nazi monuments.
Don't tell us, tell the families of yesterday's three casualties. I am sure they will see your POV that proposing the removal of the statue was, all things considered, for the best.
In this world you have to know which side you are on.
That sounds good, but other available options are: there are more than two sides; I can see merit in both sides; I detest both sides; I am not interested; it is none of my business; I am on one side rather than the other but it may be prudent to keep quiet about it.. I am sure Heather's parents are over the moon that some twat who knew which side he was on started pratting about over statues.
It's not like anyone is in any doubt that the alt right are incredibly nasty and incredibly thick. So if you provoke them and incredibly stupid and nasty things are the result, how blameless are you?
Am sure you would say the same thing over islamist terrorists. Just don't provoke them.
What a breathtakingly dim post. Yes, I would counsel against, let's say, campaigning to have a mosque demolished merely to make a point. Happy now?
Protesting against Nazis in your town, is not the sane as demolishing a mosque. You utter cretin.
Charlotteville just wants to be able to have sovereingty over its own parks and statues.
Context is everything, a statue of Cromwell in Westminster has different symbolism to one in Drogheda for example.
You are neither American and nor are you in the Democratic party. I'm not sure what your point is really.
As for the statue, well, they aren't asking for a statue of Robert E Lee to be erected in downtown DC or LA.
So what. There shouldn't be any Confederate war leader statues except in museums. Like Nazi monuments.
Don't tell us, tell the families of yesterday's three casualties. I am sure they will see your POV that proposing the removal of the statue was, all things considered, for the best.
In this world you have to know which side you are on.
That sounds good, but other available options are: there are more than two sides; I can see merit in both sides; I detest both sides; I am not interested; it is none of my business; I am on one side rather than the other but it may be prudent to keep quiet about it.. I am sure Heather's parents are over the moon that some twat who knew which side he was on started pratting about over statues.
It's not like anyone is in any doubt that the alt right are incredibly nasty and incredibly thick. So if you provoke them and incredibly stupid and nasty things are the result, how blameless are you?
Am sure you would say the same thing over islamist terrorists. Just don't provoke them.
What a breathtakingly dim post. Yes, I would counsel against, let's say, campaigning to have a mosque demolished merely to make a point. Happy now?
Protesting against Nazis in your town, is not the sane as demolishing a mosque. You utter cretin.
Mr. Felix, recall hearing on QI that the origin of lynch mob is contrary to its general use. Apparently, a powerful family (in Ireland, I think) had a stupid elder son who committed murder, but the mayor (the father) knew his son would never be convicted because the jury would be frightened to do so. Instead, he summarily hanged his son.
Not quite the same, but it's slightly reminiscent of when a very interesting chap by the name of Titus Manlius Torquatus killed his own son for disobeying orders when on campaign.
I have for a number of years marvelled at some of the right wing rubbish written on Political Betting. Somehow, today's posts by some of the usual trolls beggars belief! Claiming Jacob Rees- Mogg is the future of the UK is one thing, justifying Alt-Right Nazi-ism is well, just plain bollocks!
An interesting fact for soccer fans - Huddersfield Town have now been longer at the top of the Premier League in the last two years than Liverpool and Tottenham combined!
Charlotteville just wants to be able to have sovereingty over its own parks and statues.
Context is everything, a statue of Cromwell in Westminster has different symbolism to one in Drogheda for example.
You are neither American and nor are you in the Democratic party. I'm not sure what your point is really.
As for the statue, well, they aren't asking for a statue of Robert E Lee to be erected in downtown DC or LA.
So what. There shouldn't be any Confederate war leader statues except in museums. Like Nazi monuments.
Don't tell us, tell the families of yesterday's three casualties. I am sure they will see your POV that proposing the removal of the statue was, all things considered, for the best.
In this world you have to know which side you are on.
That sounds good, but other available options are: there are more than two sides; I can see merit in both sides; I detest both sides; I am not interested; it is none of my business; I am on one side rather than the other but it may be prudent to keep quiet about it.. I am sure Heather's parents are over the moon that some twat who knew which side he was on started pratting about over statues.
It's not like anyone is in any doubt that the alt right are incredibly nasty and incredibly thick. So if you provoke them and incredibly stupid and nasty things are the result, how blameless are you?
Am sure you would say the same thing over islamist terrorists. Just don't provoke them.
What a breathtakingly dim post. Yes, I would counsel against, let's say, campaigning to have a mosque demolished merely to make a point. Happy now?
Protesting against Nazis in your town, is not the sane as demolishing a mosque. You utter cretin.
I think we can add "analogy" to the list of concepts which are too difficult for you. You aren't very good at insults, either.
Dr. Foxinsox, an attempt to oust her might really anger the backbenchers.
Given the recent history of Boris buggering up everything he attempts, my forecast is as follows: Boris tries to become leader the PCP is sufficiently annoyed his prospects are annihilated he ceases to be Foreign Secretary there is much rejoicing
I'm even more confident on Boris not being Theresa May's successor than I was that he wouldn't be Cameron's successor.
The Moggasm is explained in part by the fact the Tory party has fallen out of love with Boris.
The fact that Mogg is now being mooted as a potential Tory leader is utterly depressing: it suggests that the party is now pretty much overrun with oddballs and Jezza is a shoo-in as next PM, if only by default. Never in my lifetime has the Tory party been so at odds with the modern age. I mean, when was the last time the Tory party was led by someone whom one can seriously imagine wearing sock suspenders?
Dr. Foxinsox, an attempt to oust her might really anger the backbenchers.
Given the recent history of Boris buggering up everything he attempts, my forecast is as follows: Boris tries to become leader the PCP is sufficiently annoyed his prospects are annihilated he ceases to be Foreign Secretary there is much rejoicing
I'm even more confident on Boris not being Theresa May's successor than I was that he wouldn't be Cameron's successor.
The Moggasm is explained in part by the fact the Tory party has fallen out of love with Boris.
If Mogg starts showing popularity in the polls with the general public as well as Tories that may be the case, for now Boris is still very much in the frame in my view
He'd probably win a ballot of the membership, much as Corbyn did and for much the same reasons.
But the Conservatives are not Labour and he wouldn't make the final two. That's the reason Gove stood last time and it's not as though he's been the greatest foreign secretary since Salisbury to change the narrative.
Though it is in the small print at the end of the bash Theresa article.
"However, the Conservatives have bounced back in the head-to-head between the parties to enjoy a three-point lead in voting intention, by 42 per cent to 39 per cent."
Yup - but one can hardly expect a thread header on such a poll can we. It is simply not suitable for luvvieland publication!
This is the pollster whose eve of GE poll had Con 46 Lab 33 and you want a thread done on them ?????
Not quite the same, but it's slightly reminiscent of when a very interesting chap by the name of Titus Manlius Torquatus killed his own son for disobeying orders when on campaign.
The Romans loved improving stories of stern fathers, who executed family members.
When the first Brutus discovered that his sons were conspiring to restore the Tarquins, he had them publicly scourged, before being beheaded.
Rees-Mogg is too posh to be unpopular for that alone, he's clever, and he's unequivocally British.
The Tories (quite astonishingly) have been outsmarted by a rather shabby rabble rouser. This is mostly that they're at the top of their hill. Apart from the circumstances in which we find ourselves (ludicrous debt) there's nothing much to fix. We just need to wait a very, very long while and then we can afford to do some good stuff (Tories and Labour are each responsible for a 'very').
The Corbyn crevasse is not something one should leap into.
Comments
I think theyre both a bunch of totalitarian twats
any sensible person would condemn both
you joined his party not me
Violence should be blamed on the perpetrators. If you think there are extenuating causes then please say but ultimately it should not prevent responsibility being laid upon the perpetrators. People are responsible for what they do. Those proposing statue removal are not the perpetrators.
It's not like anyone is in any doubt that the alt right are incredibly nasty and incredibly thick. So if you provoke them and incredibly stupid and nasty things are the result, how blameless are you?
on the other hand this might not just be a binary choice I can dislike nazism and leftist totalitarianism simutaneously
go on give it a try
Merkel rejects setting goal for electric cars
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/bundestagswahl/nicht-durchdacht-merkel-erteilt-e-auto-quote-eine-klare-absage-15148120.html
Sounds as though this guy was always clear he wanted to remove Confederate monuments.
"By 2016, Wes Bellamy, another Charlottesville city councilor and the city’s vice mayor, had become a champion of efforts to remove Confederate monuments. At a news conference in front of the Lee statue in March of that year, he said the City Council would appoint a commission to discuss the issue....
The City Council established its special commission in May 2016. Later that year, it issued a report suggesting that the city could either relocate the Lee statue or transform it with the “inclusion of new accurate historical information.”....
But in February, the City Council voted to remove the statue from the park. Opponents of the move sued in March, arguing that the city did not have the authority to do so under state law."
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/13/us/charlottesville-rally-protest-statue.html
Yup - but one can hardly expect a thread header on such a poll can we. It is simply not suitable for luvvieland publication!
it doesnt need a bunch of demo junkies to do it for them
buy popcorn and sit at home watching TV while the police arrest anyone getting in the way
why does the town need two crowds of authoritarian apes roaming its streets ?
[Edit. And now back to work...
There were a couple of no balls in the final over, but it's still a good effort!
Mr. Felix, recall hearing on QI that the origin of lynch mob is contrary to its general use. Apparently, a powerful family (in Ireland, I think) had a stupid elder son who committed murder, but the mayor (the father) knew his son would never be convicted because the jury would be frightened to do so. Instead, he summarily hanged his son.
The excelleny "Topography of Terror" exhibit in Belin covers a lot of how the Nazis stamped out internal dissent before moving on to external enemies.
There wasn't much in the way of German defeatism even in 1945 when the writing was clearly on the wall. Distinguishing between the motivations of a reluctant conscript and a fervent Nazi was not easy on the battlefield. The self serving Wehrmacht memoirs often record anti Nazi feeling, but the actions of the Wehrmacht show how culpable they really were.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/perfumed-effigy-of-butcher-duke-raises-a-stink-in-the-highlands-1-2399182
Good news for Boris
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/prime-minister-popularity-unpopular-rating-tories-conservatives-jeremy-corbyn-brexit-a7890801.html
That said, best PM from the Cabinet is a recognition question, not a competence one.
Mr Dancer makes a good point though
Their final 2015 GE poll had it Con 34% Lab 34%
not sure that this one has been discussed. Tess looks doomed. Can she survive conference?
Given the recent history of Boris buggering up everything he attempts, my forecast is as follows:
Boris tries to become leader
the PCP is sufficiently annoyed his prospects are annihilated
he ceases to be Foreign Secretary
there is much rejoicing
The Moggasm is explained in part by the fact the Tory party has fallen out of love with Boris.
Waterford 4-19
Deise meet Galway in All Ireland final
Not quite the same, but it's slightly reminiscent of when a very interesting chap by the name of Titus Manlius Torquatus killed his own son for disobeying orders when on campaign.
But the Conservatives are not Labour and he wouldn't make the final two. That's the reason Gove stood last time and it's not as though he's been the greatest foreign secretary since Salisbury to change the narrative.
When the first Brutus discovered that his sons were conspiring to restore the Tarquins, he had them publicly scourged, before being beheaded.
The Tories (quite astonishingly) have been outsmarted by a rather shabby rabble rouser. This is mostly that they're at the top of their hill. Apart from the circumstances in which we find ourselves (ludicrous debt) there's nothing much to fix. We just need to wait a very, very long while and then we can afford to do some good stuff (Tories and Labour are each responsible for a 'very').
The Corbyn crevasse is not something one should leap into.
Anyway, I must be off.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/officers/6wtX2Mc3yaFGs8SEKCv6xb-cxOs/appointments
EDIT: Looks to be this: http://institute.global/making-globalisation-work-many
Interesting tidbit:
We work to revitalise the centre ground and equip today’s leaders to combat the rise of a new false populism.
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