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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Conference and its aftermath could be BoJo’s best chance of mo

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    AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    glw said:

    I see BigJohnOwls is posting fake news horseshit again.

    It's hardly surprising that Corbynistas are gullible.
    Yet another similarity with the Trumpettes, paranoia is rampant.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,625
    edited September 2017
    glw said:

    I see BigJohnOwls is posting fake news horseshit again.

    It's hardly surprising that Corbynistas are gullible.
    We're all gullible, we just fall for different things. That canary one didn't even sound credible.
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    BBC Political Editor Laura Kuenssberg is listed as an “invited speaker” at the Conservative Party conference. And the news raises questions about the impartiality of the journalist and her organisation. Again.

    Oh dear what were people saying yesterday.

    A made up story in the Canary.

    All those Tories who have spent years howling at the BBC should look at the Labour left doing it now and feel utterly embarrassed. Yes, Tories, you really did look that stupid
    Like when BBC journalists had to be accompanied to Tory Conference by bodyguards, you mean?

    Someone's looking really stupid......

    I am sorry you do not understand the point I am making.
    I'm sorry you think you're being clever and cannot see the wood for the trees. How many BBC journalists did have to take bodyguards to Tory Conferences? You're the one making the comparison.....

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    PeterC said:

    I think that, if we had a contest soon, the choices presented to the members would be one of Hammond and Rudd (probably Hammond) vs one of DD and Boris (probably DD).

    That would leave many with a distrinctly sinking feeling. It would be barely worth the upheaval of change.
    It isn't worth the upheaval of change, which I think will be the calculation which many MPs would make at the moment. It would be much better to take our time and have a proper contest, with some fresher faces, in 2016 or 2017. But, if Boris does move, MPs' hands will be forced.
    I hate to break it to you but 2017's nearly over. And as for 2016 ...
    I'm still waiting for the moment when David Cameron steps out of the shower and tells Sam he had a terrible dream about calling a referendum...
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,625

    Mr. Herdson, yeah, I thought you meant in the final MP round.

    In unsurprising news, the Kurds have gone for independence. We'll see what happens next: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-41419633

    Mr. Eagles, but how would Davidson get the gig? She's not even an MP.

    Indeed, - I'm sure a seat could be found, but it'd look bad to rUn off from Holyrood.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,821
    blueblue said:
    Straws Clutching comes to mind. You do know Sunny Jim had a sizeable lead over Maggie in 1979 on this measure
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    Good afternoon, Miss JGP.
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    blueblue said:
    Straws Clutching comes to mind. You do know Sunny Jim had a sizeable lead over Maggie in 1979 on this measure
    True. What's also true is that Sunny Jim was a working-class patriot, not a commie con artist like Corbyn.
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    BBC Political Editor Laura Kuenssberg is listed as an “invited speaker” at the Conservative Party conference. And the news raises questions about the impartiality of the journalist and her organisation. Again.

    Oh dear what were people saying yesterday.

    A made up story in the Canary.

    All those Tories who have spent years howling at the BBC should look at the Labour left doing it now and feel utterly embarrassed. Yes, Tories, you really did look that stupid
    Like when BBC journalists had to be accompanied to Tory Conference by bodyguards, you mean?

    Someone's looking really stupid......

    I am sorry you do not understand the point I am making.
    I'm sorry you think you're being clever and cannot see the wood for the trees. How many BBC journalists did have to take bodyguards to Tory Conferences? You're the one making the comparison.....

    No, I am comparing the ridiculous anti-BBC ranting of @bigjohnowls with the ridiculous anti-BBC ranting of numerous Tories on here and elsewhere over the years.

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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Mr. Herdson, yeah, I thought you meant in the final MP round.

    In unsurprising news, the Kurds have gone for independence. We'll see what happens next: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-41419633

    Mr. Eagles, but how would Davidson get the gig? She's not even an MP.

    I had an interesting chat with a friend from Kirkuk about this. She reckoned that Turkey will lay claim to the city, as a consequence of the treaty of Lausanne. Mostly this is because of Erdogan seeing himself as the heir to the Ottomans. She is ethnically Turkish and seems to have a dim view of Kurds, who she views as violent bandits. There maybe some truth to her view that the breakup of Iraq would breach the Treaty, at least from a Turkish perspective.

    https://www.voanews.com/a/turkey-erdogan-treaty-of-lausanne-borders/3547651.html
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    Pulpstar said:
    Anyone can be invited to anything. The key thing is whether they accept. That said, numerous well-known Labour supporters have spoken at fringe Tory events over the years. Does that make them Tories?

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    PeterC said:

    I think that, if we had a contest soon, the choices presented to the members would be one of Hammond and Rudd (probably Hammond) vs one of DD and Boris (probably DD).

    That would leave many with a distrinctly sinking feeling. It would be barely worth the upheaval of change.
    It isn't worth the upheaval of change, which I think will be the calculation which many MPs would make at the moment. It would be much better to take our time and have a proper contest, with some fresher faces, in 2016 or 2017. But, if Boris does move, MPs' hands will be forced.
    MPs hands will be forced but the play they make will not be. Boris could resign, could ask his supporters to trigger a vote and then -

    1. The Tory MPs rally round May, coming to the conclusion that no-one else would do a significantly better job and some might do a significantly worse one. She is primarily PM at the moment and not Tory Party leader. Preparing for the next election can wait.

    2. The MPs decide that the instability can't go on, so prompt an election, either by carrying the Vote or by giving such a weak mandate that May resigns but then:

    2a. Boris stands and finds himself the scapegoat for the infighting. He loses badly, early, and his political career is over.

    2b. For all his faults, MPs decide that a frontman with pizzazz is necessary to combat Corbyn, so send him through to the members.

    2b(i) The members distrust Boris enough to elect The Other One. Boris might get another cabinet offer or might not. Either way, he may well not take it.

    2b(ii) The members roll the dice on the Fat Pop / Thin Pope principle.

    3. The MPs cock it up and leave May wounded but not terminally. Her leadership limps on; Boris snipes from the backbenches.

    Conclusion: there are lots of ways it could go wrong for many of the actors and relatively few which go right. In those circumstances, caution usually prevails.
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    Mr. Herdson, yeah, I thought you meant in the final MP round.

    In unsurprising news, the Kurds have gone for independence. We'll see what happens next: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-41419633

    Mr. Eagles, but how would Davidson get the gig? She's not even an MP.

    Follow the Earl of Home precedent.
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    Dr. Foxinsox, sounds like she's hoping for that... Kirkuk is a long way into Iraq, about two-thirds. It's closer to Iran than Turkey.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903

    Mr. Herdson, yeah, I thought you meant in the final MP round.

    In unsurprising news, the Kurds have gone for independence. We'll see what happens next: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-41419633

    Mr. Eagles, but how would Davidson get the gig? She's not even an MP.

    I had an interesting chat with a friend from Kirkuk about this. She reckoned that Turkey will lay claim to the city, as a consequence of the treaty of Lausanne. Mostly this is because of Erdogan seeing himself as the heir to the Ottomans. She is ethnically Turkish and seems to have a dim view of Kurds, who she views as violent bandits. There maybe some truth to her view that the breakup of Iraq would breach the Treaty, at least from a Turkish perspective.

    https://www.voanews.com/a/turkey-erdogan-treaty-of-lausanne-borders/3547651.html
    Just over 2/3rds of all eligible voters for independence. A stonking mandate - I hope they can make a success of Kurdistan going forward. It won't be easy being surrounded by hostile countries, but they are a tough people.
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    Mr. Herdson, yeah, I thought you meant in the final MP round.

    In unsurprising news, the Kurds have gone for independence. We'll see what happens next: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-41419633

    Mr. Eagles, but how would Davidson get the gig? She's not even an MP.

    Follow the Earl of Home precedent.
    Disclaim her hereditary title?
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Dr. Foxinsox, sounds like she's hoping for that... Kirkuk is a long way into Iraq, about two-thirds. It's closer to Iran than Turkey.

    Effectively it would be annexation of Kurdistan.

    My friend is no Islamist, and born in Iraq, but ethnically Turkish.

    Other Iraqi and Syrian friends are none too keen on the Kurds. I have never really gathered why.
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    From the BBC ball by ball coverage.

    Douglas Elder: 10am: England pick Gary Ballance 4pm: England get hammered by West Indies Don't tell me those things aren't connected somehow.
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    Ambitious to be threatening retaliatory action against a big US company with lots of friends in very high places at the same time as marching towards a cliff edge Brexit:
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/bombardier-michael-fallon-boeing-donald-trump-commerce-tariff-defence-secretary-uk-government-a7969676.html?amp
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    Mr. Herdson, yeah, I thought you meant in the final MP round.

    In unsurprising news, the Kurds have gone for independence. We'll see what happens next: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-41419633

    Mr. Eagles, but how would Davidson get the gig? She's not even an MP.

    Follow the Earl of Home precedent.
    Disclaim her hereditary title?
    More that you don't have to be an MP to become to be Tory Leader or Prime Minister.

    Make Ruth Davidson a Peer, she can be PM from the Lords with Sir Michael Fallon as her representative on Earth.
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    Ambitious to be threatening retaliatory action against a big US company with lots of friends in very high places at the same time as marching towards a cliff edge Brexit:
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/bombardier-michael-fallon-boeing-donald-trump-commerce-tariff-defence-secretary-uk-government-a7969676.html?amp

    Probably calculating that being attacked by Trump (rhetorically) is a positive with the voters. The problem is that having previously held his hand and pledged to lead the world together with him, it just looks weak and pathetic.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Ambitious to be threatening retaliatory action against a big US company with lots of friends in very high places at the same time as marching towards a cliff edge Brexit:
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/bombardier-michael-fallon-boeing-donald-trump-commerce-tariff-defence-secretary-uk-government-a7969676.html?amp

    It shows that free trade areas such as NAFTA are no guarantee of free trade, and also need independent dispute oversight.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,821
    blueblue said:

    blueblue said:
    Straws Clutching comes to mind. You do know Sunny Jim had a sizeable lead over Maggie in 1979 on this measure
    True. What's also true is that Sunny Jim was a working-class patriot, not a commie con artist like Corbyn.
    I bet you think making huge numbers of your fellow countrymen so poor they need foodbanks is patriotic don't you?
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Ambitious to be threatening retaliatory action against a big US company with lots of friends in very high places at the same time as marching towards a cliff edge Brexit:
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/bombardier-michael-fallon-boeing-donald-trump-commerce-tariff-defence-secretary-uk-government-a7969676.html?amp

    Probably calculating that being attacked by Trump (rhetorically) is a positive with the voters. The problem is that having previously held his hand and pledged to lead the world together with him, it just looks weak and pathetic.
    The significance for us is the DUP connection. It could put a real strain on a fragile coalition. Have they cashed their cheque yet?
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    It shows that free trade areas such as NAFTA are no guarantee of free trade, and also need independent dispute oversight.

    There's a big shindig at the Foreign Office tonight at which Johnson and Fox are going to bless the launch of a new 'think tank' called the Institute for Free Trade whose President is Daniel Hannan, and claims such people as Tony Abbott and Michael Howard as its advisers.

    There's a Brexit swamp in London that needs draining.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,821

    Mr. Herdson, how would a candidate get over half the votes yet not get through to the members' round?

    They'd need to lose a lot of votes between an earlier and the final rounds. e.g.

    First

    A 157
    B 58
    C 31
    D 19

    Second

    B 106
    C 81
    A 78.

    It would probably need the intervention of an investigative journalist.
    Or someone to say "because i'm a mum"
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    The significance for us is the DUP connection. It could put a real strain on a fragile coalition. Have they cashed their cheque yet?

    If the DUP were rational, it might also make them wonder whether they are backing the right union...
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    blueblue said:

    blueblue said:
    Straws Clutching comes to mind. You do know Sunny Jim had a sizeable lead over Maggie in 1979 on this measure
    True. What's also true is that Sunny Jim was a working-class patriot, not a commie con artist like Corbyn.
    I bet you think making huge numbers of your fellow countrymen so poor they need foodbanks is patriotic don't you?
    Just as I'm sure you think leaving our country defenceless while robbing it blind makes you patriotic.
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    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    England already well ahead of the required run rate. Plain sailing from now on.
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    Ambitious to be threatening retaliatory action against a big US company with lots of friends in very high places at the same time as marching towards a cliff edge Brexit:
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/bombardier-michael-fallon-boeing-donald-trump-commerce-tariff-defence-secretary-uk-government-a7969676.html?amp

    It shows that free trade areas such as NAFTA are no guarantee of free trade, and also need independent dispute oversight.

    It also shows how post-Brexit UK will be vulnerable to this kind of action from protectionist countries like the US. We do not have the leverage the EU has.

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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,153
    edited September 2017
    All,

    Thanks for your comments on my header.

    I was trying to warn against complacency about Labour but, more importantly, about campaigning against his harmful policies in a hysterical and over the top matter at the last minute. Ruthless relentless focused dissection based on facts over time and based on voters' concerns is what is needed. Campaigns are won in the months and years before an election not in the final weeks.

    The other critical point is that the Tories need to start making a positive case for an economy and polity that works well for a majority. They have completely failed to do so, indeed, seem incapable of doing so. And Brexit - or the extraordinarily narrow way they have interpreted it and are implementing it - is making that task near impossible.

    Surely there is someone somewhere doing some hard thinking, surely?

    That is why, as @Jonathan pointed out, Corbyn was seen as the safer option. I think though that those who think he is - either on the economy or on Brexit - are deluded and naive. To use a historical analogy: Mensheviks to his Bolsheviks.

    Anyway am off for a bit to go canoeing and other enjoyable stuff.
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    Mr. Herdson, yeah, I thought you meant in the final MP round.

    In unsurprising news, the Kurds have gone for independence. We'll see what happens next: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-41419633

    Mr. Eagles, but how would Davidson get the gig? She's not even an MP.

    Follow the Earl of Home precedent.
    Disclaim her hereditary title?
    More that you don't have to be an MP to become to be Tory Leader or Prime Minister.

    Make Ruth Davidson a Peer, she can be PM from the Lords with Sir Michael Fallon as her representative on Earth.
    Well it's an idea but I somehow think that a PM who had not been elected to the House of Commons would only add to the Tories problems.

    Home disclaimed his title and a by-election was engineered in a safe Tory seat for him so he could be PM in the Commons. I can't see the Tories willingly creating a by-election now.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,821
    blueblue said:

    blueblue said:

    blueblue said:
    Straws Clutching comes to mind. You do know Sunny Jim had a sizeable lead over Maggie in 1979 on this measure
    True. What's also true is that Sunny Jim was a working-class patriot, not a commie con artist like Corbyn.
    I bet you think making huge numbers of your fellow countrymen so poor they need foodbanks is patriotic don't you?
    Just as I'm sure you think leaving our country defenceless while robbing it blind makes you patriotic.
    Agreed the current Government has done that too. All in the name of Austerity and were no all in it together
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    I am shocked to find that a virulent anti-semite is behind the Laura K story.

    https://twitter.com/JimmyRushmore/status/913029861618405376
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    The significance for us is the DUP connection. It could put a real strain on a fragile coalition. Have they cashed their cheque yet?

    If the DUP were rational, it might also make them wonder whether they are backing the right union...

    The DUP's vote has Bombardier to worry about and their farming support:

    Northern Ireland farmers call for five-year transition after Brexit
    Livestock and Meat Commission finds WTO rules would have heavy impact on trade

    https://www.ft.com/content/f08ce586-a118-11e7-9e4f-7f5e6a7c98a2



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    blueblue said:

    blueblue said:

    blueblue said:
    Straws Clutching comes to mind. You do know Sunny Jim had a sizeable lead over Maggie in 1979 on this measure
    True. What's also true is that Sunny Jim was a working-class patriot, not a commie con artist like Corbyn.
    I bet you think making huge numbers of your fellow countrymen so poor they need foodbanks is patriotic don't you?
    Just as I'm sure you think leaving our country defenceless while robbing it blind makes you patriotic.
    It's the Conservatives who are leaving our country defenceless -- the army is already down to 3/4 of its size in 2010.
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    I am shocked to find that a virulent anti-semite is behind the Laura K story.

    https://twitter.com/JimmyRushmore/status/913029861618405376

    Theo Bertram's timeline is also educational about this writer.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited September 2017

    I am shocked to find that a virulent anti-semite is behind the Laura K story.

    twitter.com/JimmyRushmore/status/913029861618405376

    Anti-zionist, not antisemitic....will of course be the claim....

    I am worried enough about the marxist mob powering the supreme leader, I can only imagine what Jewish business people are going through.
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    I am shocked to find that a virulent anti-semite is behind the Laura K story.

    https://twitter.com/JimmyRushmore/status/913029861618405376

    Theo Bertram's timeline is also educational about this writer.
    Cheers.
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    glwglw Posts: 9,549

    Anti-zionist, not antisemitic....will of course be the claim....

    Ken will probably be on the air soon to let us know why this is perfectly reasonable free speech and not anti-semitism.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Ambitious to be threatening retaliatory action against a big US company with lots of friends in very high places at the same time as marching towards a cliff edge Brexit:
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/bombardier-michael-fallon-boeing-donald-trump-commerce-tariff-defence-secretary-uk-government-a7969676.html?amp

    It shows that free trade areas such as NAFTA are no guarantee of free trade, and also need independent dispute oversight.

    It also shows how post-Brexit UK will be vulnerable to this kind of action from protectionist countries like the US. We do not have the leverage the EU has.

    An interesting thread on aerospace and trade here, and the origins of this dispute:

    https://twitter.com/ottocrat/status/912998997316513792
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    Mr. Herdson, yeah, I thought you meant in the final MP round.

    In unsurprising news, the Kurds have gone for independence. We'll see what happens next: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-41419633

    Mr. Eagles, but how would Davidson get the gig? She's not even an MP.

    Follow the Earl of Home precedent.
    Not allowed. Only Con MPs can be nominated to stand for the leadership.

    (Ironically, they don't have to *stay* MPs - you could, in theory at least, follow Home's route in reverse)
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    Mr. Herdson, yeah, I thought you meant in the final MP round.

    In unsurprising news, the Kurds have gone for independence. We'll see what happens next: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-41419633

    Mr. Eagles, but how would Davidson get the gig? She's not even an MP.

    Follow the Earl of Home precedent.
    Not allowed. Only Con MPs can be nominated to stand for the leadership.

    (Ironically, they don't have to *stay* MPs - you could, in theory at least, follow Home's route in reverse)
    Someone get on the blower to Graham Brady and change the rules ASAP.
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    blueblue said:

    blueblue said:

    blueblue said:
    Straws Clutching comes to mind. You do know Sunny Jim had a sizeable lead over Maggie in 1979 on this measure
    True. What's also true is that Sunny Jim was a working-class patriot, not a commie con artist like Corbyn.
    I bet you think making huge numbers of your fellow countrymen so poor they need foodbanks is patriotic don't you?
    Just as I'm sure you think leaving our country defenceless while robbing it blind makes you patriotic.
    It's the Conservatives who are leaving our country defenceless -- the army is already down to 3/4 of its size in 2010.
    And they are looking to go down another 10k to 70k. Most of their equipment is in storage to save maintenance costs and by the time you have allowed for those on ceremonial duties, permanent garrison roles (Cyprus, Falklands etc) and training missions only a very small number (said by some to be less than 10k) is actually available for deployment to potential war zones. This compares with 40k deployed to Iraq in 2003.
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    Spot on:

    Brexit Tories opened the door to revolution. Corbynites walked through
    The right created a situation where anything seems possible, but they may come to regret that. Labour have been the chief beneficiaries

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/27/brexit-labour-tories-corbynites-right-labour?CMP=share_btn_tw
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,821

    I am shocked to find that a virulent anti-semite is behind the Laura K story.

    https://twitter.com/JimmyRushmore/status/913029861618405376

    Wow that Steve Topple comment is not acceptable.

    I agree.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    I am shocked to find that a virulent anti-semite is behind the Laura K story.

    https://twitter.com/JimmyRushmore/status/913029861618405376

    Theo Bertram's timeline is also educational about this writer.
    Seems to be twitterbanned.
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    The whole band of Maomentumers who continue to pump out all the anti-Jewish stuff is really interesting, given that if somebody was to utter anything slightly un-PC about LBGT rights or race relations they would be all over them as homophobic racist in a split second.
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    Ambitious to be threatening retaliatory action against a big US company with lots of friends in very high places at the same time as marching towards a cliff edge Brexit:
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/bombardier-michael-fallon-boeing-donald-trump-commerce-tariff-defence-secretary-uk-government-a7969676.html?amp

    It shows that free trade areas such as NAFTA are no guarantee of free trade, and also need independent dispute oversight.

    It also shows how post-Brexit UK will be vulnerable to this kind of action from protectionist countries like the US. We do not have the leverage the EU has.

    An interesting thread on aerospace and trade here, and the origins of this dispute:

    https://twitter.com/ottocrat/status/912998997316513792

    Yep ...

    And this is where being an EU member is so important. The EU has the weight to defend itself. We can retaliate

    The UK acting alone can’t take on the US. This is why it lost its post-war lead in civil aviation. https://academic.oup.com/ahr/article/113/1/151/41355/Jeffrey-A-Engel-Cold-War-at-30-000-Feet-The-Anglo … /

    The level of delusion among the Brexit right is matched only by the delusion you see on the Corbyn left. And those are the two choices this country now has.

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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,821
    edited September 2017
    glw said:

    Anti-zionist, not antisemitic....will of course be the claim....

    Ken will probably be on the air soon to let us know why this is perfectly reasonable free speech and not anti-semitism.
    Any sentence with "most Jews" is clearly unacceptable.

    Hope this Topple guy is not a party member if he is he should no longer be.
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    Mr. Herdson, yeah, I thought you meant in the final MP round.

    In unsurprising news, the Kurds have gone for independence. We'll see what happens next: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-41419633

    Mr. Eagles, but how would Davidson get the gig? She's not even an MP.

    Follow the Earl of Home precedent.
    Not allowed. Only Con MPs can be nominated to stand for the leadership.

    (Ironically, they don't have to *stay* MPs - you could, in theory at least, follow Home's route in reverse)
    Someone get on the blower to Graham Brady and change the rules ASAP.
    Didn't Ken Clarke stand while not technically a member of the party?
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    Mr. Observer, to surrender politically to be able to go toe-to-toe with the US in trade is a horrendous choice.

    It's why the EU and pro-EU politicians here screwed up so badly. There was a massive majority for the economics of the EU but a massive majority against the ever creeping integration and political submission.
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    glw said:

    Anti-zionist, not antisemitic....will of course be the claim....

    Ken will probably be on the air soon to let us know why this is perfectly reasonable free speech and not anti-semitism.
    Any sentence with "most Jews" is clearly unacceptable.

    Hope this Topple guy is not a party member if he is he should no longer be.
    Its ok, Labour definitely doesn't have a problem with antisemitism, they had an official inquiry and everything...and even when they do find filth they throw them out the party suspend them under the media spotlight has moved on and reinstate them.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,914
    edited September 2017

    I am shocked to find that a virulent anti-semite is behind the Laura K story.

    twitter.com/JimmyRushmore/status/913029861618405376

    Anti-zionist, not antisemitic....will of course be the claim....

    I am worried enough about the marxist mob powering the supreme leader, I can only imagine what Jewish business people are going through.

    Misery, I'd imagine - and not only those in business. Corbyn and the far-left empower anti-Semites. The comments that the likes of McCluskey and Loach have made this week are sickening. I cannot express the level of despair I feel to see the party I was once a member of descend so deep into the filthy pit of racism. It revolts me.

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    Mr. Herdson, yeah, I thought you meant in the final MP round.

    In unsurprising news, the Kurds have gone for independence. We'll see what happens next: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-41419633

    Mr. Eagles, but how would Davidson get the gig? She's not even an MP.

    Follow the Earl of Home precedent.
    Not allowed. Only Con MPs can be nominated to stand for the leadership.

    (Ironically, they don't have to *stay* MPs - you could, in theory at least, follow Home's route in reverse)
    Someone get on the blower to Graham Brady and change the rules ASAP.
    Didn't Ken Clarke stand while not technically a member of the party?
    But he was an MP, it's all fine.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903

    Ambitious to be threatening retaliatory action against a big US company with lots of friends in very high places at the same time as marching towards a cliff edge Brexit:
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/bombardier-michael-fallon-boeing-donald-trump-commerce-tariff-defence-secretary-uk-government-a7969676.html?amp

    It shows that free trade areas such as NAFTA are no guarantee of free trade, and also need independent dispute oversight.

    It also shows how post-Brexit UK will be vulnerable to this kind of action from protectionist countries like the US. We do not have the leverage the EU has.

    An interesting thread on aerospace and trade here, and the origins of this dispute:

    https://twitter.com/ottocrat/status/912998997316513792

    Yep ...

    And this is where being an EU member is so important. The EU has the weight to defend itself. We can retaliate

    The UK acting alone can’t take on the US. This is why it lost its post-war lead in civil aviation. https://academic.oup.com/ahr/article/113/1/151/41355/Jeffrey-A-Engel-Cold-War-at-30-000-Feet-The-Anglo … /

    The level of delusion among the Brexit right is matched only by the delusion you see on the Corbyn left. And those are the two choices this country now has.

    Voting in Corbyn won't stop Brexit though !

    Just makes it a marxist Brexit, which is well I wouldn't have started from here.
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    I am shocked to find that a virulent anti-semite is behind the Laura K story.

    twitter.com/JimmyRushmore/status/913029861618405376

    Anti-zionist, not antisemitic....will of course be the claim....

    I am worried enough about the marxist mob powering the supreme leader, I can only imagine what Jewish business people are going through.

    Misery, I'd imagine - and not only those in business. Corbyn and the far-left empower anti-Semites. The comments that the likes of McCluskey and Loach have made this week are sickening. I cannot express the level of despair I feel to see the party I was once a member of descend so deep into the filthy pit of racism. It revolts me.

    I only pray that somehow Corbyn totally shoots itself in the foot and the sensible centre left types like yourself can topple him before this turns into left wing Trumpery.
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    philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704

    I am shocked to find that a virulent anti-semite is behind the Laura K story.

    twitter.com/JimmyRushmore/status/913029861618405376

    Anti-zionist, not antisemitic....will of course be the claim....

    I am worried enough about the marxist mob powering the supreme leader, I can only imagine what Jewish business people are going through.

    Misery, I'd imagine - and not only those in business. Corbyn and the far-left empower anti-Semites. The comments that the likes of McCluskey and Loach have made this week are sickening. I cannot express the level of despair I feel to see the party I was once a member of descend so deep into the filthy pit of racism. It revolts me.

    I have to say that certainly is unreserved criticism of Labour, showing how strongly you feel the moral argument against all racism is. Power to your elbow.
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    I am shocked to find that a virulent anti-semite is behind the Laura K story.

    twitter.com/JimmyRushmore/status/913029861618405376

    Anti-zionist, not antisemitic....will of course be the claim....

    I am worried enough about the marxist mob powering the supreme leader, I can only imagine what Jewish business people are going through.

    Misery, I'd imagine - and not only those in business. Corbyn and the far-left empower anti-Semites. The comments that the likes of McCluskey and Loach have made this week are sickening. I cannot express the level of despair I feel to see the party I was once a member of descend so deep into the filthy pit of racism. It revolts me.

    I only pray that somehow Corbyn totally shoots itself in the foot and the sensible centre left types like yourself can topple him before this turns into left wing Trumpery.

    He is there for the foreseeable. Labour has sunk into the swamp and will not climb out again for a very long time.

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    I am shocked to find that a virulent anti-semite is behind the Laura K story.

    twitter.com/JimmyRushmore/status/913029861618405376

    Anti-zionist, not antisemitic....will of course be the claim....

    I am worried enough about the marxist mob powering the supreme leader, I can only imagine what Jewish business people are going through.

    Misery, I'd imagine - and not only those in business. Corbyn and the far-left empower anti-Semites. The comments that the likes of McCluskey and Loach have made this week are sickening. I cannot express the level of despair I feel to see the party I was once a member of descend so deep into the filthy pit of racism. It revolts me.

    I only pray that somehow Corbyn totally shoots itself in the foot and the sensible centre left types like yourself can topple him before this turns into left wing Trumpery.
    It won't happen. Labour is lost for at least a generation.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    I am shocked to find that a virulent anti-semite is behind the Laura K story.

    twitter.com/JimmyRushmore/status/913029861618405376

    Anti-zionist, not antisemitic....will of course be the claim....

    I am worried enough about the marxist mob powering the supreme leader, I can only imagine what Jewish business people are going through.

    Misery, I'd imagine - and not only those in business. Corbyn and the far-left empower anti-Semites. The comments that the likes of McCluskey and Loach have made this week are sickening. I cannot express the level of despair I feel to see the party I was once a member of descend so deep into the filthy pit of racism. It revolts me.

    Clearly Steve Topple is an anti semite, but I don't think he is a member of the Labour Party.

    Quite a lot of Momentumites are not.
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    I am shocked to find that a virulent anti-semite is behind the Laura K story.

    twitter.com/JimmyRushmore/status/913029861618405376

    Anti-zionist, not antisemitic....will of course be the claim....

    I am worried enough about the marxist mob powering the supreme leader, I can only imagine what Jewish business people are going through.

    Misery, I'd imagine - and not only those in business. Corbyn and the far-left empower anti-Semites. The comments that the likes of McCluskey and Loach have made this week are sickening. I cannot express the level of despair I feel to see the party I was once a member of descend so deep into the filthy pit of racism. It revolts me.

    It says something when the biggest clap and cheer in the labout speech was about palestine. Not to say it's not an important issue, but there is clearly 'something' there which pushes that cause way over and above what often more serious conflicts.

    I wonder what that might be.
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    I am shocked to find that a virulent anti-semite is behind the Laura K story.

    twitter.com/JimmyRushmore/status/913029861618405376

    Anti-zionist, not antisemitic....will of course be the claim....

    I am worried enough about the marxist mob powering the supreme leader, I can only imagine what Jewish business people are going through.

    Misery, I'd imagine - and not only those in business. Corbyn and the far-left empower anti-Semites. The comments that the likes of McCluskey and Loach have made this week are sickening. I cannot express the level of despair I feel to see the party I was once a member of descend so deep into the filthy pit of racism. It revolts me.

    Clearly Steve Topple is an anti semite, but I don't think he is a member of the Labour Party.

    Quite a lot of Momentumites are not.
    But the labour leadership are clearly happy with Momentum as a whole. It keeps their hands clean whilst appeasing the loonies.
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    I am shocked to find that a virulent anti-semite is behind the Laura K story.

    twitter.com/JimmyRushmore/status/913029861618405376

    Anti-zionist, not antisemitic....will of course be the claim....

    I am worried enough about the marxist mob powering the supreme leader, I can only imagine what Jewish business people are going through.

    Misery, I'd imagine - and not only those in business. Corbyn and the far-left empower anti-Semites. The comments that the likes of McCluskey and Loach have made this week are sickening. I cannot express the level of despair I feel to see the party I was once a member of descend so deep into the filthy pit of racism. It revolts me.

    Clearly Steve Topple is an anti semite, but I don't think he is a member of the Labour Party.

    Quite a lot of Momentumites are not.

    And many are. They all feel empowered by the far-left's control of labour, and by what senior Labour members close to Corbyn - such as Loach and McCluskey - say when dismissing claims of anti-Semitism. Loach essentially said on TV this week that it was legitimate to debate whether the Holocaust happened; McCluskey essentially stated that Jews were conspiring against Corbyn when they raised anti-Semitism.

    Jonathan Freedland has it absolutely right:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/27/labour-denial-antisemitism-party-dark-place

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    I am shocked to find that a virulent anti-semite is behind the Laura K story.

    twitter.com/JimmyRushmore/status/913029861618405376

    Anti-zionist, not antisemitic....will of course be the claim....

    I am worried enough about the marxist mob powering the supreme leader, I can only imagine what Jewish business people are going through.

    Misery, I'd imagine - and not only those in business. Corbyn and the far-left empower anti-Semites. The comments that the likes of McCluskey and Loach have made this week are sickening. I cannot express the level of despair I feel to see the party I was once a member of descend so deep into the filthy pit of racism. It revolts me.

    Clearly Steve Topple is an anti semite, but I don't think he is a member of the Labour Party.

    Quite a lot of Momentumites are not.
    It's like Trump and the alt-right, but even worse in that the alt-right aren't an offical organistation.

    In nearly every way, Corbyn is the British Trump.
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    Loving the "Labour are Evil" coverage in the Hate Mail. Guessing that next week will be front pages like "Theresa May: Isn't She Marvellous"
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    glwglw Posts: 9,549

    In nearly every way, Corbyn is the British Trump.

    Except that Trump's power is relatively limited, with Congress and the courts unwilling to play ball with a lot of what Trump wishes to do. Corbyn and McDonnell will have much less trouble implementing their crazy plans here.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited September 2017

    In nearly every way, Corbyn is the British Trump.


    Fake news...I didn't say that ;-)
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,625

    I am shocked to find that a virulent anti-semite is behind the Laura K story.

    twitter.com/JimmyRushmore/status/913029861618405376

    Anti-zionist, not antisemitic....will of course be the claim....

    I am worried enough about the marxist mob powering the supreme leader, I can only imagine what Jewish business people are going through.

    Misery, I'd imagine - and not only those in business. Corbyn and the far-left empower anti-Semites. The comments that the likes of McCluskey and Loach have made this week are sickening. I cannot express the level of despair I feel to see the party I was once a member of descend so deep into the filthy pit of racism. It revolts me.

    I only pray that somehow Corbyn totally shoots itself in the foot and the sensible centre left types like yourself can topple him before this turns into left wing Trumpery.
    It won't happen. Labour is lost for at least a generation.
    Lost and inn power next election
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,625

    Loving the "Labour are Evil" coverage in the Hate Mail. Guessing that next week will be front pages like "Theresa May: Isn't She Marvellous"

    I don't think their base readership is as receptive to that message.
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    glwglw Posts: 9,549

    Fake news...I didn't say that ;-)

    Yes I keep deleting all but the outer quote, which happens to be part of a previous draft. D'oh!
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903
    glw said:

    In nearly every way, Corbyn is the British Trump.

    Except that Trump's power is relatively limited, with Congress and the courts unwilling to play ball with a lot of what Trump wishes to do. Corbyn and McDonnell will have much less trouble implementing their crazy plans here.
    Hopefully Labour (if they must in power) will be dependant on the Liberal Democrats. Vince is the thin yellow wedge between a poor Corbyn gov't and a disastrous one (hopefully). It probably won't work out like that though, Corbyn will probably buck the recent trend and land himself a healthy majority.
    Then we're REALLY screwed
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    Loving the "Labour are Evil" coverage in the Hate Mail. Guessing that next week will be front pages like "Theresa May: Isn't She Marvellous"

    The Mail will always give Labour a terrible time. Bu that does not mean that the far left's empowerment of anti-Semites and its dismissal of concerns raised by so many Jews is anything other than shameful. Did you see the McCluskey and Loach interviews?

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    Meanwhile, over at Chelmsford, Essex have dismissed Yorkshire to record their tenth win of the season, six more than any other County.

    Such dominance might suggest that they would be heavily represented in the Ashes squad, but only Alastair Cook makes it. I agree with the omission of Tom Westley but the failure to give opportunities when the openings were there to Dan Lawrence, Nick Browne and young fast bowling find Jamie Porter has meant that they could not be considered.

    And yet they take Malan, who would not get in the Essex team, and Mason Crane, who wouldn't get in some school teams.

    Pah.
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    Meanwhile, over at Chelmsford, Essex have dismissed Yorkshire to record their tenth win of the season, six more than any other County.

    Such dominance might suggest that they would be heavily represented in the Ashes squad, but only Alastair Cook makes it. I agree with the omission of Tom Westley but the failure to give opportunities when the openings were there to Dan Lawrence, Nick Browne and young fast bowling find Jamie Porter has meant that they could not be considered.

    And yet they take Malan, who would not get in the Essex team, and Mason Crane, who wouldn't get in some school teams.

    Pah.

    And Gary Ballance is getting his annual last chance.

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    FPTP and the political system in general are letting down the electorate. We’ve got two main parties that only appeal to the 20% most left and right wing elements of the population. The moderates in the middle have no one to speak for them and have to choose which of the two parties stinks less.
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    Transport for London (TfL) plans to make £322m by collecting Tube users' location data and potentially selling it to third parties.


    http://news.sky.com/story/tfl-may-make-322m-by-selling-on-data-from-passengers-mobiles-via-tube-wifi-11056118

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    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    Loving the "Labour are Evil" coverage in the Hate Mail. Guessing that next week will be front pages like "Theresa May: Isn't She Marvellous"

    The Mail will always give Labour a terrible time. Bu that does not mean that the far left's empowerment of anti-Semites and its dismissal of concerns raised by so many Jews is anything other than shameful. Did you see the McCluskey and Loach interviews?

    The other thing that alarmed me is that very few Vice Chancellors are women. So, I found it shocking that the two Vice Chancellors picked on by Labour were ... err, women.

    Adonis on Louise Richardson: "Prof Richardson would have done better to announce a cut in her excessive salary and a reduction in fee levels at Oxford. This head-in-the-sand attitude is damaging our universities and harming students who now face debts of up to £100k on graduation."

    Adonis on Glynis Breakwell: "The only example the vice-chancellor of the University of Bath is setting to her staff is one of greed,"

    I happen to agree that Vice Chancellor's pay has gotten out of hand, but Adonis publicly attacks just the women.
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    Transport for London (TfL) plans to make £322m by collecting Tube users' location data and potentially selling it to third parties.


    http://news.sky.com/story/tfl-may-make-322m-by-selling-on-data-from-passengers-mobiles-via-tube-wifi-11056118

    Welcome to Big Data!!

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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,821

    glw said:

    Anti-zionist, not antisemitic....will of course be the claim....

    Ken will probably be on the air soon to let us know why this is perfectly reasonable free speech and not anti-semitism.
    Any sentence with "most Jews" is clearly unacceptable.

    Hope this Topple guy is not a party member if he is he should no longer be.
    Its ok, Labour definitely doesn't have a problem with antisemitism, they had an official inquiry and everything...and even when they do find filth they throw them out the party suspend them under the media spotlight has moved on and reinstate them.
    Is Topple a Labour member?
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    Mr. Hopkins, that's unpleasant news. Of course, if Morris Dancer's policy of enabling people to pay using actual money (wild and crazy as that idea is) had been adopted, people would be able to opt out.
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    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869

    I am shocked to find that a virulent anti-semite is behind the Laura K story.

    twitter.com/JimmyRushmore/status/913029861618405376

    Anti-zionist, not antisemitic....will of course be the claim....

    I am worried enough about the marxist mob powering the supreme leader, I can only imagine what Jewish business people are going through.

    Misery, I'd imagine - and not only those in business. Corbyn and the far-left empower anti-Semites. The comments that the likes of McCluskey and Loach have made this week are sickening. I cannot express the level of despair I feel to see the party I was once a member of descend so deep into the filthy pit of racism. It revolts me.

    I only pray that somehow Corbyn totally shoots itself in the foot and the sensible centre left types like yourself can topple him before this turns into left wing Trumpery.
    It won't happen. Labour is lost for at least a generation.
    Yes, they've lost their way entirely and they will soon be leading the country, I'm afraid.
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    AnneJGP said:

    I am shocked to find that a virulent anti-semite is behind the Laura K story.

    twitter.com/JimmyRushmore/status/913029861618405376

    Anti-zionist, not antisemitic....will of course be the claim....

    I am worried enough about the marxist mob powering the supreme leader, I can only imagine what Jewish business people are going through.

    Misery, I'd imagine - and not only those in business. Corbyn and the far-left empower anti-Semites. The comments that the likes of McCluskey and Loach have made this week are sickening. I cannot express the level of despair I feel to see the party I was once a member of descend so deep into the filthy pit of racism. It revolts me.

    I only pray that somehow Corbyn totally shoots itself in the foot and the sensible centre left types like yourself can topple him before this turns into left wing Trumpery.
    It won't happen. Labour is lost for at least a generation.
    Yes, they've lost their way entirely and they will soon be leading the country, I'm afraid.
    Suggest 'will' should be 'may' - nothing is certain anymore
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    103-0 after 15 overs in the cricket...who needs Alex Hales and Ben Stokes?
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    Mr. Hopkins, that's unpleasant news. Of course, if Morris Dancer's policy of enabling people to pay using actual money (wild and crazy as that idea is) had been adopted, people would be able to opt out.


    No, they couldn't. It's being done with mobile wi-fi signals - you'd have to switch off (or not take) your mobile to avoid it.

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    Mr. Hopkins, I don't have a mobile. Victory!
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    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    Loving the "Labour are Evil" coverage in the Hate Mail. Guessing that next week will be front pages like "Theresa May: Isn't She Marvellous"

    The Mail will always give Labour a terrible time. Bu that does not mean that the far left's empowerment of anti-Semites and its dismissal of concerns raised by so many Jews is anything other than shameful. Did you see the McCluskey and Loach interviews?

    No what have they said ?
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,625

    FPTP and the political system in general are letting down the electorate. We’ve got two main parties that only appeal to the 20% most left and right wing elements of the population. The moderates in the middle have no one to speak for them and have to choose which of the two parties stinks less.

    They could pick the lds. In theory.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,625
    Thank goodness our separatists are less troublesome?
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    I met my first Remainer who shared some of @AlastairMeeks previously expressed views.

    He said we should cut NHS spending in the regions and allow them to sink to the level their stupidity deserved. While whining about the impact Brexit was going to have on his £20m house in Notting Hill (not a typo)

    I've known him well for 20 years (he was my boss for a decade) and he's always been a self-centred jerk. But he out did himself today

    You'll all be pleased to know he told me he intends to play a much fuller role in politica in future and will be going to the Tory conference...
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    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    Meanwhile, over at Chelmsford, Essex have dismissed Yorkshire to record their tenth win of the season, six more than any other County.

    Such dominance might suggest that they would be heavily represented in the Ashes squad, but only Alastair Cook makes it. I agree with the omission of Tom Westley but the failure to give opportunities when the openings were there to Dan Lawrence, Nick Browne and young fast bowling find Jamie Porter has meant that they could not be considered.

    And yet they take Malan, who would not get in the Essex team, and Mason Crane, who wouldn't get in some school teams.

    Pah.

    Are Yorkshire safe from relegation ?
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    Meanwhile, over at Chelmsford, Essex have dismissed Yorkshire to record their tenth win of the season, six more than any other County.

    Such dominance might suggest that they would be heavily represented in the Ashes squad, but only Alastair Cook makes it. I agree with the omission of Tom Westley but the failure to give opportunities when the openings were there to Dan Lawrence, Nick Browne and young fast bowling find Jamie Porter has meant that they could not be considered.

    And yet they take Malan, who would not get in the Essex team, and Mason Crane, who wouldn't get in some school teams.

    Pah.

    And Gary Ballance is getting his annual last chance.

    Gary Ballance does average over 37 in Tests and over 48 in First Class cricket

    http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/232438.html

    By contrast James Vince's averages are 19 and 39:

    http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/296597.html
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    Meanwhile, over at Chelmsford, Essex have dismissed Yorkshire to record their tenth win of the season, six more than any other County.

    Such dominance might suggest that they would be heavily represented in the Ashes squad, but only Alastair Cook makes it. I agree with the omission of Tom Westley but the failure to give opportunities when the openings were there to Dan Lawrence, Nick Browne and young fast bowling find Jamie Porter has meant that they could not be considered.

    And yet they take Malan, who would not get in the Essex team, and Mason Crane, who wouldn't get in some school teams.

    Pah.

    And Gary Ballance is getting his annual last chance.

    Lol! And that's one of the more reasonable picks.

    Given that eight of the England side pick themselves, England Cricket Selector ought to be one of the easiest sporting jobs in the world. You only have to find three players, and a few reserves.

    What do they do with their time?
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    Not quite current events, but I finished the Complete Works of Tacitus today, which is largely concerned with the political and military turmoil of the first century AD. Quite good, a broadsheet to Suetonius' tabloid, but he's not afraid of enormous sentences that can end up being a bit difficult to follow. Worth reading, but probably not as an early book for someone new to classical history.
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    Yorkcity said:

    Loving the "Labour are Evil" coverage in the Hate Mail. Guessing that next week will be front pages like "Theresa May: Isn't She Marvellous"

    The Mail will always give Labour a terrible time. Bu that does not mean that the far left's empowerment of anti-Semites and its dismissal of concerns raised by so many Jews is anything other than shameful. Did you see the McCluskey and Loach interviews?

    No what have they said ?

    This will help you:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/27/labour-denial-antisemitism-party-dark-place

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    Mr. Herdson, yeah, I thought you meant in the final MP round.

    In unsurprising news, the Kurds have gone for independence. We'll see what happens next: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-41419633

    Mr. Eagles, but how would Davidson get the gig? She's not even an MP.

    Follow the Earl of Home precedent.
    Disclaim her hereditary title?
    More that you don't have to be an MP to become to be Tory Leader or Prime Minister.

    Make Ruth Davidson a Peer, she can be PM from the Lords with Sir Michael Fallon as her representative on Earth.
    She'd need a few more policies beyond ending WFA in England and Wales but keeping it in Scotland.
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    Charles said:

    You'll all be pleased to know he told me he intends to play a much fuller role in politica in future and will be going to the Tory conference...

    Sounds like Manchester 2017 could be the scene of the first battle of the new English civil war.
This discussion has been closed.