Missed the sleech so won't comment. However, seems a Party in disarray. Unable to Correctly align it's slogan. Taught in Primary school. Build a set which doesn't fall to bits. Keep a well kmown prankster who has his own TV show away from the stage, let alone out of the hall.
The problem for May is that she is becoming a figure of fun over and beyond the satirical norm. One has to sympathise with her as a human being -her cold, losing her voice, the P45 bully, the F dropping off, Boris Johnson's machinations, -but no PM can survive for long if they are a laughing stock.
The IDS comparison is flawed. 15 years ago the tories were in opposition. There were no reasons at all to keep him in that position. It is totally different now as the tories are leading a minority government, and there are many reasons to keep her in post.
Well! That was some speech! Not the borefest we were expecting. "F. off" subliminal messaging. Mrs May about to expire on stage at any time. The P45 prank that almost looked it was set up by the organisers. Unfortunate pan shots on the faces of the assembled cabinet: how long was this - and she - going to last?
The content was weird. In part it was the speech David Cameron would give; in part the one Ed Miliband would give. Strange, given how beastly she was to both men.
But one concrete thing in it. It all comes back to Brexit in the end. She made it clear she was going to declare sovereignty and sign on the dotted line of the A50 Withdrawal Agreement. All her prospective replacements will want her to do that, not them. So she will be around until she does.
Northern Ireland is the sticking point, not the money or - IMHO - even the ECJ jurisdiction on its own citizens within the UK, which is solvable with a joint body.
I agree with Richard Nabavi that's inseparable from the trade deal for the UK overall, so it really is chicken and egg.
The government's position is no physical infrastructure at all on the Irish border. If you think Northern Ireland is inseparable form the UK as a whole then that means that the government has no real intention of leaving the customs union at all.
No, it could just mean that it has no intention of enforcing the border. For those who say that this'd be breaching WTO rules, I'd argue that the GFA provides the framework for all-Ireland solutions and that as there is a UK-Ireland agreement on this (plus other regional signatories), there's no need to default to WTO.
Well! That was some speech! Not the borefest we were expecting. "F. off" subliminal messaging. Mrs May about to expire on stage at any time. The P45 prank that almost looked it was set up by the organisers. Unfortunate pan shots on the faces of the assembled cabinet: how long was this - and she - going to last?
The content was weird. In part it was the speech David Cameron would give; in part the one Ed Miliband would give. Strange, given how beastly she was to both men.
But one concrete thing in it. It all comes back to Brexit in the end. She made it clear she was going to declare sovereignty and sign on the dotted line of the A50 Withdrawal Agreement. All her prospective replacements will want her to do that, not them. So she will be around until she does.
Northern Ireland is the sticking point, not the money or - IMHO - even the ECJ jurisdiction on its own citizens within the UK, which is solvable with a joint body.
I agree with Richard Nabavi that's inseparable from the trade deal for the UK overall, so it really is chicken and egg.
The government's position is no physical infrastructure at all on the Irish border. If you think Northern Ireland is inseparable form the UK as a whole then that means that the government has no real intention of leaving the customs union at all.
Or is planning for the Customs union to include NI - via some form of all Ireland structure - but not GB?
Ireland and the U.K had freedom of movement and customs controls from 1923 to 1993 so there is a sort of precedent.
And smuggling was rampant. Will the EU tolerate a border that allows it?
Well! That was some speech! Not the borefest we were expecting. "F. off" subliminal messaging. Mrs May about to expire on stage at any time. The P45 prank that almost looked it was set up by the organisers. Unfortunate pan shots on the faces of the assembled cabinet: how long was this - and she - going to last?
The content was weird. In part it was the speech David Cameron would give; in part the one Ed Miliband would give. Strange, given how beastly she was to both men.
But one concrete thing in it. It all comes back to Brexit in the end. She made it clear she was going to declare sovereignty and sign on the dotted line of the A50 Withdrawal Agreement. All her prospective replacements will want her to do that, not them. So she will be around until she does.
Northern Ireland is the sticking point, not the money or - IMHO - even the ECJ jurisdiction on its own citizens within the UK, which is solvable with a joint body.
I agree with Richard Nabavi that's inseparable from the trade deal for the UK overall, so it really is chicken and egg.
The government's position is no physical infrastructure at all on the Irish border. If you think Northern Ireland is inseparable form the UK as a whole then that means that the government has no real intention of leaving the customs union at all.
Or is planning for the Customs union to include NI - via some form of all Ireland structure - but not GB?
Ireland and the U.K had freedom of movement and customs controls from 1923 to 1993 so there is a sort of precedent.
And smuggling was rampant. Will the EU tolerate a bordernthat allows it?
They will if the alternative is Ireland leaving as well as UK.
Well! That was some speech! Not the borefest we were expecting. "F. off" subliminal messaging. Mrs May about to expire on stage at any time. The P45 prank that almost looked it was set up by the organisers. Unfortunate pan shots on the faces of the assembled cabinet: how long was this - and she - going to last?
The content was weird. In part it was the speech David Cameron would give; in part the one Ed Miliband would give. Strange, given how beastly she was to both men.
But one concrete thing in it. It all comes back to Brexit in the end. She made it clear she was going to declare sovereignty and sign on the dotted line of the A50 Withdrawal Agreement. All her prospective replacements will want her to do that, not them. So she will be around until she does.
Northern Ireland is the sticking point, not the money or - IMHO - even the ECJ jurisdiction on its own citizens within the UK, which is solvable with a joint body.
I agree with Richard Nabavi that's inseparable from the trade deal for the UK overall, so it really is chicken and egg.
The government's position is no physical infrastructure at all on the Irish border. If you think Northern Ireland is inseparable form the UK as a whole then that means that the government has no real intention of leaving the customs union at all.
Or is planning for the Customs union to include NI - via some form of all Ireland structure - but not GB?
Ireland and the U.K had freedom of movement and customs controls from 1923 to 1993 so there is a sort of precedent.
And smuggling was rampant. Will the EU tolerate a border that allows it?
They will if the alternative is Ireland leaving as well as UK.
Can we put that one to bed please? There is no way that Ireland will leave the EU due to Brexit.
IDS's Quiet Man speech killed him. This is far worse. Only Brexit is preventing her rivals from moving, but for how long?
She's fortunate that she's in the same position as Major in the mid-90s: all her potential replacements are themselves flawed, one way or another. There isn't anyone you could give the job to that you could say "yes, they'd without question do better". She also benefits from there being too many rivals, each of which won't want to move if it means handing the crown to someone else.
Nobody is that unlucky. The cough is clearly psychosomatic. All the briefing on her being a broken woman is obviously utterly true. And her subconscious is kicking the front door in get her attention.
I'd genuinely feel sorry for her, root for her, defend her even. But after the nine month hate fest between ' Citizens of Nowhere ' and *that* campaign the evil banshee gets not a scintilla of clemency of me.
I've never ever laughed out loud at another human beings suffering before but I've just chortled away at those clips. I may download the whole thing as a daily pick me me up until the wretch is carted away.
Caller to a radio show reminded that he has diabetes and when he gets tired he begins to cough (no idea if this is a known thing).
So people apart from the "tired" bit will be reminded she had diabetes. Now, there is no reason on the planet for someone with diabetes not to be PM.
But I'm sure some people will think that on a simple physical level she might not be up to it. Which is another unfortunate factor for May.
The thing is that when you are on the top of your game mentally, you can get through big set-pieces like this even if you have a nasty cough, by sheer will-power. But if you are nervous and unsure of yourself, a cough is the worst thing to have. I am sure it's no coincidence that she didn't start coughing until after the unpleasant prankster put her off her stride.
The contrast between Theresa today and Boris yesterday is just astounding...
Rhetoric is just one of the skills required of a good leader. Johnson speaks like a post-modern take on Churchill combined with a rather ponderous speaker at some professional society's annual dinner. He always gives the impression of ambition and levity, of playing a game. Corbyn is in many ways a poor speaker but there is cult effect fed by several cultural currents. TM should be allowed to soldier on and a replacement (bypassing the current cabinet generation) put in position in two years or so.
IDS's Quiet Man speech killed him. This is far worse. Only Brexit is preventing her rivals from moving, but for how long?
She's fortunate that she's in the same position as Major in the mid-90s: all her potential replacements are themselves flawed, one way or another. There isn't anyone you could give the job to that you could say "yes, they'd without question do better". She also benefits from there being too many rivals, each of which won't want to move if it means handing the crown to someone else.
I'm not sure she is "fortunate" though.
Just look at her at the end of that speech. She's broken. She's nearly in tears. She's clinging to her husband like a drowning person clinging to a life raft.
If this goes on it will have very serious affects on her well-being, both psychological and physical - Maybe it already has.
The last thing anyone should want to see is for someone to become seriously ill in office but that's what could happen if this continues.
This is why Boris will be rejected by the MPs and struggle to make it to the final two.
As May sought to deliver an extended attack on Jeremy Corbyn, she was accosted by prankster Lee Nelson, who handed her a fake P45 ("Boris asked me to give you this"). Tory MPs will note again what a gift the Foreign Secretary's machinations have been to their opponents.
IDS's Quiet Man speech killed him. This is far worse. Only Brexit is preventing her rivals from moving, but for how long?
She's fortunate that she's in the same position as Major in the mid-90s: all her potential replacements are themselves flawed, one way or another. There isn't anyone you could give the job to that you could say "yes, they'd without question do better". She also benefits from there being too many rivals, each of which won't want to move if it means handing the crown to someone else.
In the mid-90s it was versus Blair, though, and very few anticipated what a shellacking was coming. This time it's against Corbyn - far bigger danger - and the political warning signs are all there.
I think both Gove and Hunt would be technically better, I'm to be convinced on Rudd, but whether they'd be politically better is another matter.
It would have to be a Government of all the talents.
Nobody is that unlucky. The cough is clearly psychosomatic. All the briefing on her being a broken woman is obviously utterly true. And her subconscious is kicking the front door in get her attention.
I'd genuinely feel sorry for her, root for her, defend her even. But after the nine month hate fest between ' Citizens of Nowhere ' and *that* campaign the evil banshee gets not a scintilla of clemency of me.
I've never ever laughed out loud at another human beings suffering before but I've just chortled away at those clips. I may download the whole thing as a daily pick me me up until the wretch is carted away.
Nobody is that unlucky. The cough is clearly psychosomatic. All the briefing on her being a broken woman is obviously utterly true. And her subconscious is kicking the front door in get her attention.
I'd genuinely feel sorry for her, root for her, defend her even. But after the nine month hate fest between ' Citizens of Nowhere ' and *that* campaign the evil banshee gets not a scintilla of clemency of me.
I've never ever laughed out loud at another human beings suffering before but I've just chortled away at those clips. I may download the whole thing as a daily pick me me up until the wretch is carted away.
Caller to a radio show reminded that he has diabetes and when he gets tired he begins to cough (no idea if this is a known thing).
So people apart from the "tired" bit will be reminded she had diabetes. Now, there is no reason on the planet for someone with diabetes not to be PM.
But I'm sure some people will think that on a simple physical level she might not be up to it. Which is another unfortunate factor for May.
The thing is that when you are on the top of your game mentally, you can get through big set-pieces like this even if you have a nasty cough, by sheer will-power. But if you are nervous and unsure of yourself, a cough is the worst thing to have. I am sure it's no coincidence that she didn't start coughing until after the unpleasant prankster put her off her stride.
Yes indeed. I often do presentations to board meetings etc for my job and if I have a cold or cough you can guarantee it will come on during the meeting if I am a bit nervous or unsure how the audience will react.
Caller to a radio show reminded that he has diabetes and when he gets tired he begins to cough (no idea if this is a known thing).
So people apart from the "tired" bit will be reminded she had diabetes. Now, there is no reason on the planet for someone with diabetes not to be PM.
But I'm sure some people will think that on a simple physical level she might not be up to it. Which is another unfortunate factor for May.
As a sufferer of diabetes, it does occasionally cause a dry mouth, which can often be the sign of high blood sugar level.
Is why I drink a lot of water.
Yes. My babymother has diabetes. She also suffers from a dry mouth and coughing fits, often quite bad.
There's nothing you can do about it, either, really.
Someone with quite severe diabetes probably isn't fit enough to be a British prime minister, especially when we're going through the grand trauma of Brexit. That's simply the case. She's just not quite up to it.
Sad.
Diabetic patients are often on a 'pril such as Lisinopril for BP and to protect the kidneys. A dry cough is a fairly frequent side effect.
What can the Tories do though? They need a human lightning rod to take the blame for the increasingly apparent Brexit catastrophe. She's going to have to keep going.
The contrast between Theresa today and Boris yesterday is just astounding...
Rhetoric is just one of the skills required of a good leader. Johnson speaks like a post-modern take on Churchill combined with a rather ponderous speaker at some professional society's annual dinner. He always gives the impression of ambition and levity, of playing a game. Corbyn is in many ways a poor speaker but there is cult effect fed by several cultural currents. TM should be allowed to soldier on and a replacement (bypassing the current cabinet generation) put in position in two years or so.
The good speech was the one given by Kemi Badenoch as a warm-up to May's. Like Johnson, I think she would make supporters feel happy to be part of the Conservative Party, but in her case she had something to say.
Nobody is that unlucky. The cough is clearly psychosomatic. All the briefing on her being a broken woman is obviously utterly true. And her subconscious is kicking the front door in get her attention.
I'd genuinely feel sorry for her, root for her, defend her even. But after the nine month hate fest between ' Citizens of Nowhere ' and *that* campaign the evil banshee gets not a scintilla of clemency of me.
I've never ever laughed out loud at another human beings suffering before but I've just chortled away at those clips. I may download the whole thing as a daily pick me me up until the wretch is carted away.
What can the Tories do though? They need a human lightning rod to take the blame for the increasingly apparent Brexit catastrophe. She's going to have to keep going.
Seriously, I think you are right. Forget about money for council housing, engineering apprenticeships. Mrs May's job is to keep the show going for long enough to say, "We have left the EU and it doesn't look too bad" (because we're sticking with the EU system on a pay as you go, do as you are told basis).
Nobody is that unlucky. The cough is clearly psychosomatic. All the briefing on her being a broken woman is obviously utterly true. And her subconscious is kicking the front door in get her attention.
I'd genuinely feel sorry for her, root for her, defend her even. But after the nine month hate fest between ' Citizens of Nowhere ' and *that* campaign the evil banshee gets not a scintilla of clemency of me.
I've never ever laughed out loud at another human beings suffering before but I've just chortled away at those clips. I may download the whole thing as a daily pick me me up until the wretch is carted away.
What a horrible, horrible post. No wonder I feel increasingly alienated from the left with this sort of bile lurking so close to the surface.
The McDonnell/Momentum effect on the British left really is poison.
Well! That was some speech! Not the borefest we were expecting. "F. off" subliminal messaging. Mrs May about to expire on stage at any time. The P45 prank that almost looked it was set up by the organisers. Unfortunate pan shots on the faces of the assembled cabinet: how long was this - and she - going to last?
The content was weird. In part it was the speech David Cameron would give; in part the one Ed Miliband would give. Strange, given how beastly she was to both men.
But one concrete thing in it. It all comes back to Brexit in the end. She made it clear she was going to declare sovereignty and sign on the dotted line of the A50 Withdrawal Agreement. All her prospective replacements will want her to do that, not them. So she will be around until she does.
Northern Ireland is the sticking point, not the money or - IMHO - even the ECJ jurisdiction on its own citizens within the UK, which is solvable with a joint body.
I agree with Richard Nabavi that's inseparable from the trade deal for the UK overall, so it really is chicken and egg.
The government's position is no physical infrastructure at all on the Irish border. If you think Northern Ireland is inseparable form the UK as a whole then that means that the government has no real intention of leaving the customs union at all.
That's not true.
There's no physical infrastructure between Switzerland or Norway and the EU, and neither of those countries are part of the Customs Union.
What can the Tories do though? They need a human lightning rod to take the blame for the increasingly apparent Brexit catastrophe. She's going to have to keep going.
Seriously, I think you are right. Forget about money for council housing, engineering apprenticeships. Mrs May's job is to keep the show going for long enough to say, "We have left the EU and it doesn't look too bad" (because we're sticking with the EU system on a pay as you go, do as you are told basis).
If she can get a partial deal on trade, keep the cost lower while bringing back control of immigration and laws, she will be able to spin it as a moderate success. At that point she should hand over to someone from the next generation.
What can the Tories do though? They need a human lightning rod to take the blame for the increasingly apparent Brexit catastrophe. She's going to have to keep going.
That's the current assumption, but it's only one assumption. It's predicated on the fact she absorbs all the bile, and then the Party moves forward with a clean slate.
It's a beautifully simplistic solution, but it might be wrong.
Another one is that this is very difficult and all factions of the party need to be involved in making the deal, so a Government of all the talents being involved from all sides of the party can sell something to their wings having been in the middle of it.
Nobody is that unlucky. The cough is clearly psychosomatic. All the briefing on her being a broken woman is obviously utterly true. And her subconscious is kicking the front door in get her attention.
I'd genuinely feel sorry for her, root for her, defend her even. But after the nine month hate fest between ' Citizens of Nowhere ' and *that* campaign the evil banshee gets not a scintilla of clemency of me.
I've never ever laughed out loud at another human beings suffering before but I've just chortled away at those clips. I may download the whole thing as a daily pick me me up until the wretch is carted away.
What a horrible, horrible post. No wonder I feel increasingly alienated from the left with this sort of bile lurking so close to the surface.
The McDonnell/Momentum effect on the British left really is poison.
The left have really lost their marbles since Trump/Brexit.
Lashing out at anyone who disagrees with them in the nastiest way possible with a side helping of sanctimony. Blergh.
Well! That was some speech! Not the borefest we were expecting. "F. off" subliminal messaging. Mrs May about to expire on stage at any time. The P45 prank that almost looked it was set up by the organisers. Unfortunate pan shots on the faces of the assembled cabinet: how long was this - and she - going to last?
The content was weird. In part it was the speech David Cameron would give; in part the one Ed Miliband would give. Strange, given how beastly she was to both men.
But one concrete thing in it. It all comes back to Brexit in the end. She made it clear she was going to declare sovereignty and sign on the dotted line of the A50 Withdrawal Agreement. All her prospective replacements will want her to do that, not them. So she will be around until she does.
Northern Ireland is the sticking point, not the money or - IMHO - even the ECJ jurisdiction on its own citizens within the UK, which is solvable with a joint body.
I agree with Richard Nabavi that's inseparable from the trade deal for the UK overall, so it really is chicken and egg.
The government's position is no physical infrastructure at all on the Irish border. If you think Northern Ireland is inseparable form the UK as a whole then that means that the government has no real intention of leaving the customs union at all.
That's not true.
There's no physical infrastructure between Switzerland or Norway and the EU, and neither of those countries are part of the Customs Union.
That's not true - I drove across on the motorway from Annecy to Geneva a few months ago and there are customs posts on both sides along with a control to make sure you had a"vignette" to allow you to drive on Swiss motorways. All traffic had to stop and some was checked. No passport control though.
Nobody is that unlucky. The cough is clearly psychosomatic. All the briefing on her being a broken woman is obviously utterly true. And her subconscious is kicking the front door in get her attention.
I'd genuinely feel sorry for her, root for her, defend her even. But after the nine month hate fest between ' Citizens of Nowhere ' and *that* campaign the evil banshee gets not a scintilla of clemency of me.
I've never ever laughed out loud at another human beings suffering before but I've just chortled away at those clips. I may download the whole thing as a daily pick me me up until the wretch is carted away.
What a horrible, horrible post. No wonder I feel increasingly alienated from the left with this sort of bile lurking so close to the surface.
The McDonnell/Momentum effect on the British left really is poison.
The left have really lost their marbles since Trump/Brexit.
Lashing out at anyone who disagrees with them in the nastiest way possible with a side helping of sanctimony. Blergh.
How's about relaxing the planning laws so individuals can build their own homes at affordable prices? Instead of building massive sink estates that breed poverty and crime.
Mr. Thompson, hmm. You may be correct, but I had it in mind it was Aristotle.
But the point about bad luck stands.
Mr. Eagles, a reasoned fellow admits when he may be wrong. One eagerly anticipates your recanting of the endless nonsense you have spouted over the years.
What can the Tories do though? They need a human lightning rod to take the blame for the increasingly apparent Brexit catastrophe. She's going to have to keep going.
Seriously, I think you are right. Forget about money for council housing, engineering apprenticeships. Mrs May's job is to keep the show going for long enough to say, "We have left the EU and it doesn't look too bad" (because we're sticking with the EU system on a pay as you go, do as you are told basis).
If she can get a partial deal on trade, keep the cost lower while bringing back control of immigration and laws, she will be able to spin it as a moderate success. At that point she should hand over to someone from the next generation.
If she can perform that miracle, she deserves to stay.
@casino_royale@Elliot@Richard_Tyndall Ridiculous bed wetting. They'll be writing books about May for decades. How did someone prevent enough to give the often misunderstood ' Nasty Party ' speech and who deservedly became PM end up offering the 9 month " Citizens of nowhere " to ' Crush the Sabateurs ' nightmare ? She's reaping what she sowed.
What can the Tories do though? They need a human lightning rod to take the blame for the increasingly apparent Brexit catastrophe. She's going to have to keep going.
Seriously, I think you are right. Forget about money for council housing, engineering apprenticeships. Mrs May's job is to keep the show going for long enough to say, "We have left the EU and it doesn't look too bad" (because we're sticking with the EU system on a pay as you go, do as you are told basis).
If she can get a partial deal on trade, keep the cost lower while bringing back control of immigration and laws, she will be able to spin it as a moderate success. At that point she should hand over to someone from the next generation.
She won't get an agreement on trade, limited immigration or repatriation of laws. She might be able to get a partial and temporary continuation of current arrangements while they work out what the hell happens next. Otherwise 800 treaties that support our national lifestyle will lapse. The point is that if we want things to carry on approximately as they are, it will be by the decision of the EU, it will cost us and we will have to agree to what they want. It might seem stupid to pay more to get less and have less control, when we had all that by right. But there we go. I voted Remain.
Nobody is that unlucky. The cough is clearly psychosomatic. All the briefing on her being a broken woman is obviously utterly true. And her subconscious is kicking the front door in get her attention.
I'd genuinely feel sorry for her, root for her, defend her even. But after the nine month hate fest between ' Citizens of Nowhere ' and *that* campaign the evil banshee gets not a scintilla of clemency of me.
I've never ever laughed out loud at another human beings suffering before but I've just chortled away at those clips. I may download the whole thing as a daily pick me me up until the wretch is carted away.
What a horrible, horrible post. No wonder I feel increasingly alienated from the left with this sort of bile lurking so close to the surface.
The McDonnell/Momentum effect on the British left really is poison.
The left have really lost their marbles since Trump/Brexit.
Lashing out at anyone who disagrees with them in the nastiest way possible with a side helping of sanctimony. Blergh.
How's about relaxing the planning laws so individuals can build their own homes at affordable prices? Instead of building massive sink estates that breed poverty and crime.
Well! That was some speech! Not the borefest we were expecting. "F. off" subliminal messaging. Mrs May about to expire on stage at any time. The P45 prank that almost looked it was set up by the organisers. Unfortunate pan shots on the faces of the assembled cabinet: how long was this - and she - going to last?
The content was weird. In part it was the speech David Cameron would give; in part the one Ed Miliband would give. Strange, given how beastly she was to both men.
But one concrete thing in it. It all comes back to Brexit in the end. She made it clear she was going to declare sovereignty and sign on the dotted line of the A50 Withdrawal Agreement. All her prospective replacements will want her to do that, not them. So she will be around until she does.
Northern Ireland is the sticking point, not the money or - IMHO - even the ECJ jurisdiction on its own citizens within the UK, which is solvable with a joint body.
I agree with Richard Nabavi that's inseparable from the trade deal for the UK overall, so it really is chicken and egg.
The government's position is no physical infrastructure at all on the Irish border. If you think Northern Ireland is inseparable form the UK as a whole then that means that the government has no real intention of leaving the customs union at all.
That's not true.
There's no physical infrastructure between Switzerland or Norway and the EU, and neither of those countries are part of the Customs Union.
That's not true - I drove across on the motorway from Annecy to Geneva a few months ago and there are customs posts on both sides along with a control to make sure you had a"vignette" to allow you to drive on Swiss motorways. All traffic had to stop and some was checked. No passport control though.
Yes, but those (a) date from before Switzerland joined Schengen, and (b) exist only today to remove cash for vignettes from tourists.
Well! That was some speech! Not the borefest we were expecting. "F. off" subliminal messaging. Mrs May about to expire on stage at any time. The P45 prank that almost looked it was set up by the organisers. Unfortunate pan shots on the faces of the assembled cabinet: how long was this - and she - going to last?
The content was weird. In part it was the speech David Cameron would give; in part the one Ed Miliband would give. Strange, given how beastly she was to both men.
But one concrete thing in it. It all comes back to Brexit in the end. She made it clear she was going to declare sovereignty and sign on the dotted line of the A50 Withdrawal Agreement. All her prospective replacements will want her to do that, not them. So she will be around until she does.
Northern Ireland is the sticking point, not the money or - IMHO - even the ECJ jurisdiction on its own citizens within the UK, which is solvable with a joint body.
I agree with Richard Nabavi that's inseparable from the trade deal for the UK overall, so it really is chicken and egg.
The government's position is no physical infrastructure at all on the Irish border. If you think Northern Ireland is inseparable form the UK as a whole then that means that the government has no real intention of leaving the customs union at all.
That's not true.
There's no physical infrastructure between Switzerland or Norway and the EU, and neither of those countries are part of the Customs Union.
Nobody is that unlucky. The cough is clearly psychosomatic. All the briefing on her being a broken woman is obviously utterly true. And her subconscious is kicking the front door in get her attention.
I'd genuinely feel sorry for her, root for her, defend her even. But after the nine month hate fest between ' Citizens of Nowhere ' and *that* campaign the evil banshee gets not a scintilla of clemency of me.
I've never ever laughed out loud at another human beings suffering before but I've just chortled away at those clips. I may download the whole thing as a daily pick me me up until the wretch is carted away.
What a horrible, horrible post. No wonder I feel increasingly alienated from the left with this sort of bile lurking so close to the surface.
The McDonnell/Momentum effect on the British left really is poison.
What's the British left got to do with the price of fish?
What can the Tories do though? They need a human lightning rod to take the blame for the increasingly apparent Brexit catastrophe. She's going to have to keep going.
Seriously, I think you are right. Forget about money for council housing, engineering apprenticeships. Mrs May's job is to keep the show going for long enough to say, "We have left the EU and it doesn't look too bad" (because we're sticking with the EU system on a pay as you go, do as you are told basis).
If she can get a partial deal on trade, keep the cost lower while bringing back control of immigration and laws, she will be able to spin it as a moderate success. At that point she should hand over to someone from the next generation.
She won't get an agreement on trade, limited immigration or repatriation of laws. She might be able to get a partial and temporary continuation of current arrangements while they work out what the hell happens next. Otherwise 800 treaties that support our national lifestyle will lapse. The point is that if we want things to carry on approximately as they are, it will be by the decision of the EU, it will cost us and we will have to agree to what they want. It might seem stupid to pay more to get less and have less control, when we had all that by right. But there we go. I voted Remain.
Understandable when you have such a poor grasp of matters
Well! That was some speech! Not the borefest we were expecting. "F. off" subliminal messaging. Mrs May about to expire on stage at any time. The P45 prank that almost looked it was set up by the organisers. Unfortunate pan shots on the faces of the assembled cabinet: how long was this - and she - going to last?
The content was weird. In part it was the speech David Cameron would give; in part the one Ed Miliband would give. Strange, given how beastly she was to both men.
But one concrete thing in it. It all comes back to Brexit in the end. She made it clear she was going to declare sovereignty and sign on the dotted line of the A50 Withdrawal Agreement. All her prospective replacements will want her to do that, not them. So she will be around until she does.
Northern Ireland is the sticking point, not the money or - IMHO - even the ECJ jurisdiction on its own citizens within the UK, which is solvable with a joint body.
I agree with Richard Nabavi that's inseparable from the trade deal for the UK overall, so it really is chicken and egg.
The government's position is no physical infrastructure at all on the Irish border. If you think Northern Ireland is inseparable form the UK as a whole then that means that the government has no real intention of leaving the customs union at all.
That's not true.
There's no physical infrastructure between Switzerland or Norway and the EU, and neither of those countries are part of the Customs Union.
That's not true - I drove across on the motorway from Annecy to Geneva a few months ago and there are customs posts on both sides along with a control to make sure you had a"vignette" to allow you to drive on Swiss motorways. All traffic had to stop and some was checked. No passport control though.
Yes, but those (a) date from before Switzerland joined Schengen, and (b) exist only today to remove cash for vignettes from tourists.
Nobody is that unlucky. The cough is clearly psychosomatic. All the briefing on her being a broken woman is obviously utterly true. And her subconscious is kicking the front door in get her attention.
I'd genuinely feel sorry for her, root for her, defend her even. But after the nine month hate fest between ' Citizens of Nowhere ' and *that* campaign the evil banshee gets not a scintilla of clemency of me.
I've never ever laughed out loud at another human beings suffering before but I've just chortled away at those clips. I may download the whole thing as a daily pick me me up until the wretch is carted away.
What a horrible, horrible post. No wonder I feel increasingly alienated from the left with this sort of bile lurking so close to the surface.
The McDonnell/Momentum effect on the British left really is poison.
The left have really lost their marbles since Trump/Brexit.
Lashing out at anyone who disagrees with them in the nastiest way possible with a side helping of sanctimony. Blergh.
Er, a fair few people on the "McDonnell/Momentum" left actually voted Leave, and probably didn't exactly cry themselves to sleep when Hillary Clinton lost.
@casino_royale@Elliot@Richard_Tyndall Ridiculous bed wetting. They'll be writing books about May for decades. How did someone prevent enough to give the often misunderstood ' Nasty Party ' speech and who deservedly became PM end up offering the 9 month " Citizens of nowhere " to ' Crush the Sabateurs ' nightmare ? She's reaping what she sowed.
Nah. You are just a nasty piece of sputum with zero empathy. The simplest options are usually the correct ones.
What can the Tories do though? They need a human lightning rod to take the blame for the increasingly apparent Brexit catastrophe. She's going to have to keep going.
Seriously, I think you are right. Forget about money for council housing, engineering apprenticeships. Mrs May's job is to keep the show going for long enough to say, "We have left the EU and it doesn't look too bad" (because we're sticking with the EU system on a pay as you go, do as you are told basis).
If she can get a partial deal on trade, keep the cost lower while bringing back control of immigration and laws, she will be able to spin it as a moderate success. At that point she should hand over to someone from the next generation.
The issue with that is that a "partial" deal on trade, given we will be crashing out of a large number of the EU's existing agreements, would likely result in a serious recession.
And people care about their job and their livelihood more than anything else. (More so, if we are honest that sovereignty or immigration in the near term.)
It's why a transition period is so important. It means that, come 2021, we have deals signed with other countries. It's gives us to time to build the infrastructure we currently lack.
Well! That was some speech! Not the borefest we were expecting. "F. off" subliminal messaging. Mrs May about to expire on stage at any time. The P45 prank that almost looked it was set up by the organisers. Unfortunate pan shots on the faces of the assembled cabinet: how long was this - and she - going to last?
The content was weird. In part it was the speech David Cameron would give; in part the one Ed Miliband would give. Strange, given how beastly she was to both men.
But one concrete thing in it. It all comes back to Brexit in the end. She made it clear she was going to declare sovereignty and sign on the dotted line of the A50 Withdrawal Agreement. All her prospective replacements will want her to do that, not them. So she will be around until she does.
Northern Ireland is the sticking point, not the money or - IMHO - even the ECJ jurisdiction on its own citizens within the UK, which is solvable with a joint body.
I agree with Richard Nabavi that's inseparable from the trade deal for the UK overall, so it really is chicken and egg.
The government's position is no physical infrastructure at all on the Irish border. If you think Northern Ireland is inseparable form the UK as a whole then that means that the government has no real intention of leaving the customs union at all.
That's not true.
There's no physical infrastructure between Switzerland or Norway and the EU, and neither of those countries are part of the Customs Union.
Hmmm: I can post Google maps pictures of many places where you can and many people do (legally) cross the border between the EU and Switzerland and there is no physical infrastructure.
Mr. Eagles, I have some sympathy for her. I've had a cough for a few days, but didn't have to make a speech which appears to have been quite significantly unlucky.
What can the Tories do though? They need a human lightning rod to take the blame for the increasingly apparent Brexit catastrophe. She's going to have to keep going.
Seriously, I think you are right. Forget about money for council housing, engineering apprenticeships. Mrs May's job is to keep the show going for long enough to say, "We have left the EU and it doesn't look too bad" (because we're sticking with the EU system on a pay as you go, do as you are told basis).
If she can get a partial deal on trade, keep the cost lower while bringing back control of immigration and laws, she will be able to spin it as a moderate success. At that point she should hand over to someone from the next generation.
She won't get an agreement on trade, limited immigration or repatriation of laws. She might be able to get a partial and temporary continuation of current arrangements while they work out what the hell happens next. Otherwise 800 treaties that support our national lifestyle will lapse. The point is that if we want things to carry on approximately as they are, it will be by the decision of the EU, it will cost us and we will have to agree to what they want. It might seem stupid to pay more to get less and have less control, when we had all that by right. But there we go. I voted Remain.
Understandable when you have such a poor grasp of matters
We will find out within twelve months whether we will have a trade agreement with the EU on our rules and with us limiting immigration. As all those things are specifically excluded in the EU negotiating guidelines it seems unlikely. I don't see any reason to change my mind on your "contribution" to the debate, which is pure and dull insult.
Well! That was some speech! Not the borefest we were expecting. "F. off" subliminal messaging. Mrs May about to expire on stage at any time. The P45 prank that almost looked it was set up by the organisers. Unfortunate pan shots on the faces of the assembled cabinet: how long was this - and she - going to last?
The content was weird. In part it was the speech David Cameron would give; in part the one Ed Miliband would give. Strange, given how beastly she was to both men.
But one concrete thing in it. It all comes back to Brexit in the end. She made it clear she was going to declare sovereignty and sign on the dotted line of the A50 Withdrawal Agreement. All her prospective replacements will want her to do that, not them. So she will be around until she does.
Northern Ireland is the sticking point, not the money or - IMHO - even the ECJ jurisdiction on its own citizens within the UK, which is solvable with a joint body.
I agree with Richard Nabavi that's inseparable from the trade deal for the UK overall, so it really is chicken and egg.
The government's position is no physical infrastructure at all on the Irish border. If you think Northern Ireland is inseparable form the UK as a whole then that means that the government has no real intention of leaving the customs union at all.
That's not true.
There's no physical infrastructure between Switzerland or Norway and the EU, and neither of those countries are part of the Customs Union.
Hmmm: I can post Google maps pictures of many places where you can and many people do (legally) cross the border between the EU and Switzerland and there is no physical infrastructure.
Like here:
But that doesn't meet the bar set by the UK government's position, which is not 'no border wall' but no physical infrastructure at all, anywhere. It precludes a Swiss or Norwegian style solution.
What can the Tories do though? They need a human lightning rod to take the blame for the increasingly apparent Brexit catastrophe. She's going to have to keep going.
Seriously, I think you are right. Forget about money for council housing, engineering apprenticeships. Mrs May's job is to keep the show going for long enough to say, "We have left the EU and it doesn't look too bad" (because we're sticking with the EU system on a pay as you go, do as you are told basis).
If she can get a partial deal on trade, keep the cost lower while bringing back control of immigration and laws, she will be able to spin it as a moderate success. At that point she should hand over to someone from the next generation.
She won't get an agreement on trade, limited immigration or repatriation of laws. She might be able to get a partial and temporary continuation of current arrangements while they work out what the hell happens next. Otherwise 800 treaties that support our national lifestyle will lapse. The point is that if we want things to carry on approximately as they are, it will be by the decision of the EU, it will cost us and we will have to agree to what they want. It might seem stupid to pay more to get less and have less control, when we had all that by right. But there we go. I voted Remain.
Yes that sums it up pretty well.
But I'm struck by how quickly the political forces that supported Brexit have withered. UKIP? A ghostly shadow of its former self. The Tory grassroots? A shrinking, ageing group who have been knocked sideways by the general election disaster. The Mail, Sun & Telegraph? Still in the game but well past the peak of their influence. Business groups and economists? Support for Brexit is now all but impossible to find. The only enthusiastic Brexiteers left seem to be a minority of Tory MPs and I wonder if this will be enough to see the process through when the sh"t hits the fan.
Hmmm: I can post Google maps pictures of many places where you can and many people do (legally) cross the border between the EU and Switzerland and there is no physical infrastructure.
What can the Tories do though? They need a human lightning rod to take the blame for the increasingly apparent Brexit catastrophe. She's going to have to keep going.
Seriously, I think you are right. Forget about money for council housing, engineering apprenticeships. Mrs May's job is to keep the show going for long enough to say, "We have left the EU and it doesn't look too bad" (because we're sticking with the EU system on a pay as you go, do as you are told basis).
If she can get a partial deal on trade, keep the cost lower while bringing back control of immigration and laws, she will be able to spin it as a moderate success. At that point she should hand over to someone from the next generation.
She won't get an agreement on trade, limited immigration or repatriation of laws. She might be able to get a partial and temporary continuation of current arrangements while they work out what the hell happens next. Otherwise 800 treaties that support our national lifestyle will lapse. The point is that if we want things to carry on approximately as they are, it will be by the decision of the EU, it will cost us and we will have to agree to what they want. It might seem stupid to pay more to get less and have less control, when we had all that by right. But there we go. I voted Remain.
Yes that sums it up pretty well.
But I'm struck by how quickly the political forces that supported Brexit have withered. UKIP? A ghostly shadow of its former self. The Tory grassroots? A shrinking, ageing group who have been knocked sideways by the general election disaster. The Mail, Sun & Telegraph? Still in the game but well past the peak of their influence. Business groups and economists? Support for Brexit is now all but impossible to find. The only enthusiastic Brexiteers left seem to be a minority of Tory MPs and I wonder if this will be enough to see the process through when the sh"t hits the fan.
Except leave/remain is exactly the same in the polls.
Nobody is that unlucky. The cough is clearly psychosomatic. All the briefing on her being a broken woman is obviously utterly true. And her subconscious is kicking the front door in get her attention.
I'd genuinely feel sorry for her, root for her, defend her even. But after the nine month hate fest between ' Citizens of Nowhere ' and *that* campaign the evil banshee gets not a scintilla of clemency of me.
I've never ever laughed out loud at another human beings suffering before but I've just chortled away at those clips. I may download the whole thing as a daily pick me me up until the wretch is carted away.
What a horrible, horrible post. No wonder I feel increasingly alienated from the left with this sort of bile lurking so close to the surface.
The McDonnell/Momentum effect on the British left really is poison.
The left have really lost their marbles since Trump/Brexit.
Lashing out at anyone who disagrees with them in the nastiest way possible with a side helping of sanctimony. Blergh.
Er, a fair few people on the "McDonnell/Momentum" left actually voted Leave, and probably didn't exactly cry themselves to sleep when Hillary Clinton lost.
Yeah fair point. But those lot weren't exactly nice to start with though to be honest.
I think you all need to chill out about the cough. It won't matter.
To her plotters is does.
They don't need an excuse any more.
"She's not up to it"
Who can disagree?
The last thing the right want is a tory majority government building loads of council houses and cancelling student loans and race audits etc etc.
FWIW, personally, I'm a fan of her new policy direction.
But I recon ~75% chance this disaster of a speech sealed her fate.
It is more muddling centrism which is not, in the long term, the right strategy. As you say, it is not in their nature. And it doesn't solve the fundamental social and economic problems. And they have no mandate or majority to pursue such any radical strategy in government.
But the con MP's are a sane group of people, and I don't see them changing leader.
It really is a zombie government, and it could also spell the end of the conservative party. They died for Brexit!
We can but hope. For the Brexit mess they deserve the end.
Comments
Correctly align it's slogan. Taught in Primary school.
Build a set which doesn't fall to bits.
Keep a well kmown prankster who has his own TV show away from the stage, let alone out of the hall.
Never mind May, the organisers need firing.
I'm sure she's a very nice person but she's a total disaster and it's actually cruel to put her through this torture.
Someone please tell her to go.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkvEp_B5Kq8
"I hadn't expected Boris to resign until at least the end of the speech"
She's like a rabbit caught in headlights.
She's a complete nervous wreck. It's actually very cruel to let this go on....
What bingo terms appeared?
So people apart from the "tired" bit will be reminded she has diabetes. Now, there is no reason on the planet for someone with diabetes not to be PM.
But I'm sure some people will think that on a simple physical level she might not be up to it. Which is another unfortunate factor for May.
Edit: has diabetes
https://twitter.com/mattholehouse/status/915555851733172224
I'd genuinely feel sorry for her, root for her, defend her even. But after the nine month hate fest between ' Citizens of Nowhere ' and *that* campaign the evil banshee gets not a scintilla of clemency of me.
I've never ever laughed out loud at another human beings suffering before but I've just chortled away at those clips. I may download the whole thing as a daily pick me me up until the wretch is carted away.
Is why I drink a lot of water.
Just look at her at the end of that speech. She's broken. She's nearly in tears. She's clinging to her husband like a drowning person clinging to a life raft.
If this goes on it will have very serious affects on her well-being, both psychological and physical - Maybe it already has.
The last thing anyone should want to see is for someone to become seriously ill in office but that's what could happen if this continues.
As May sought to deliver an extended attack on Jeremy Corbyn, she was accosted by prankster Lee Nelson, who handed her a fake P45 ("Boris asked me to give you this"). Tory MPs will note again what a gift the Foreign Secretary's machinations have been to their opponents.
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/10/conservative-conference-theresa-may-struggles-towards-finishing-line
I think both Gove and Hunt would be technically better, I'm to be convinced on Rudd, but whether they'd be politically better is another matter.
It would have to be a Government of all the talents.
"FO everyone!"
Maybe Theresa should try the latter?
And the 'TMay' bantz is neither funny or clever...
Earlier today a man was detained by conference security during the prime minister’s speech.
Officers attended and the man was arrested to prevent a breach of the peace and was released a short time later.
The man had legitimate accreditation which granted him access to the conference site.
In light of this we will be reviewing the accreditation process with the Conservative party.
Even with accreditation, everyone at the conference goes through airport-style searches before being allowed entry to the site
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/oct/04/conservative-conference-2017-theresa-may-to-announce-council-house-building-programme-politics-live
14:01
The McDonnell/Momentum effect on the British left really is poison.
There's no physical infrastructure between Switzerland or Norway and the EU, and neither of those countries are part of the Customs Union.
It's a beautifully simplistic solution, but it might be wrong.
Another one is that this is very difficult and all factions of the party need to be involved in making the deal, so a Government of all the talents being involved from all sides of the party can sell something to their wings having been in the middle of it.
Lashing out at anyone who disagrees with them in the nastiest way possible with a side helping of sanctimony. Blergh.
But the point about bad luck stands.
Mr. Eagles, a reasoned fellow admits when he may be wrong. One eagerly anticipates your recanting of the endless nonsense you have spouted over the years.
Price cap only if ofgem don’t take action and social house building is 5k a year.
The wise knew such things to be tosh in the 4th century AD. It's a stupid policy.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@47.6079296,8.2341963,3a,75y,314.04h,93.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sq9uZLi89ttpBQfol7albvQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
https://twitter.com/FabianEberhard/status/915564811831914496
https://www.ezv.admin.ch/ezv/en/home/information-companies.html
And people care about their job and their livelihood more than anything else. (More so, if we are honest that sovereignty or immigration in the near term.)
It's why a transition period is so important. It means that, come 2021, we have deals signed with other countries. It's gives us to time to build the infrastructure we currently lack.
https://twitter.com/theresa_may/status/915567812831318016
Like here: https://www.google.com/maps/place/3920+Zermatt,+Switzerland/@45.9464555,7.7079857,2214m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x478f35a2292ee5cd:0x400ff8840196f70!8m2!3d46.0207133!4d7.749117
They've even built LIFTS to help people cross unhindered between the two countries.
But I'm struck by how quickly the political forces that supported Brexit have withered. UKIP? A ghostly shadow of its former self. The Tory grassroots? A shrinking, ageing group who have been knocked sideways by the general election disaster. The Mail, Sun & Telegraph? Still in the game but well past the peak of their influence. Business groups and economists? Support for Brexit is now all but impossible to find. The only enthusiastic Brexiteers left seem to be a minority of Tory MPs and I wonder if this will be enough to see the process through when the sh"t hits the fan.