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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Mrs May needs to use the Fallon vacancy to bring in new talent

SystemSystem Posts: 11,020
edited November 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Mrs May needs to use the Fallon vacancy to bring in new talent

One of the things that is often commented on as people discuss who will be the next Tory leader is how underwhelming the obvious front runners appear.

Read the full story here


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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    edited November 2017
    First!
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    tim80tim80 Posts: 99
    The Government needs fresh talent but not necessarily catapulted straight into the Cabinet. There could be a refreshing of junior ranks which takes the best of the 2015 intake, and even puts in some of this year's as PPSs.

    What the MOD needs is someone who isn't learning on the job.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896
    Last step of the podium
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,280
    Is that bromine that the PM is holding?
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    DavidL said:

    Is that bromine that the PM is holding?

    I think the Army tea with bromide was a myth, but perhaps time to make it a reality!
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    DavidL said:

    Is that bromine that the PM is holding?

    It's amber.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    It seems exceptionally unlikely that Fallon resigned for a clumsy pass at a journalist 15 years ago - and if he truly did, then he's more of a fool than I took him for.

    Assuming that I'm right, then his resignation statement fell well short of the candour which might have served his party better. He gave no substantial explanation for his resignation, merely a load of circumlocutory periphrastic waffle - and no real apology, either general or specific.

    Such lack of candour sets a very low bar indeed for cabinet resignations (as is already being mooted on this morning's news programmes), and could not be better designed to set the media in pursuit of further scalps.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,280
    On topic, I can't see it. This is an incredibly weak minority government with various factions around Brexit to be balanced off and assuaged by a PM there on sufferance. Moving too many people around, however desirable and even necessary, is simply beyond her power. One in, one out with an internal promotion is the most likely outcome.
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    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. B, indeed, though voluntarily coming out with past misconduct would've been difficult. That said, it either comes out anyway, not in a manner of his choosing, or does not, in which case his resignation was unnecessary.

    Don't think I had any bets on the Next Cabinet Minister out market.

    On-topic: agree entirely that fresh blood is needed.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,280
    Jonathan said:

    DavidL said:

    Is that bromine that the PM is holding?

    It's amber.
    As in Don't look back in amber?

    I'll get my coat...
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    It was the Coalition that rather fossilised the cabinet and stopped new talent coming through.

    That Coalition does increasingly look like a golden era of good government.

    In other news NZ is planning to tackle its housing and infrastructure challenge via importing British construction workers. Not sure how this fits with clamping down on migration. I expect a similar drive here would be the same but an order of magnitude bigger.

    https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/02/new-zealand-launches-biggest-ever-drive-to-attract-brexit-britains-builders
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    DavidL said:

    On topic, I can't see it. This is an incredibly weak minority government with various factions around Brexit to be balanced off and assuaged by a PM there on sufferance. Moving too many people around, however desirable and even necessary, is simply beyond her power. One in, one out with an internal promotion is the most likely outcome.

    Better to live a day as a tiger than 5 years as a dead sheep. No change, no chance.

    She should sack Boris Johnson today. What backbencher is going to risk making him party leader in the current climate?
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,983
    Nigelb said:

    It seems exceptionally unlikely that Fallon resigned for a clumsy pass at a journalist 15 years ago - and if he truly did, then he's more of a fool than I took him for.

    Assuming that I'm right, then his resignation statement fell well short of the candour which might have served his party better. He gave no substantial explanation for his resignation, merely a load of circumlocutory periphrastic waffle - and no real apology, either general or specific.

    Such lack of candour sets a very low bar indeed for cabinet resignations (as is already being mooted on this morning's news programmes), and could not be better designed to set the media in pursuit of further scalps.

    +1
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited November 2017
    FPT

    I just heard on radio that Priti Patel was a likely replacement. Her credentials being that she's a SHE and unlikely to have brushed anyone's knee with her hand.

    Having a pro hanging defence secretary who believes the odd mistake isn't a problem should add to the gaiety of this government.

    Time for Mrs Corbyn to get her Littlewoods catalogue out.
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908
    Theresa May should promote Rory Stewart as it would be good for my book.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,983
    edited November 2017

    DavidL said:

    On topic, I can't see it. This is an incredibly weak minority government with various factions around Brexit to be balanced off and assuaged by a PM there on sufferance. Moving too many people around, however desirable and even necessary, is simply beyond her power. One in, one out with an internal promotion is the most likely outcome.

    Better to live a day as a tiger than 5 years as a dead sheep. No change, no chance.

    She should sack Boris Johnson today. What backbencher is going to risk making him party leader in the current climate?
    If Fallon is going because of the stated reason, where does that leave Boris? Of course he’s never been known to hide either his light or his dubious deeds!
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,983
    edited November 2017
    Roger said:

    FPT

    I just heard on radio that Priti Patel was a likely replacement. Her credentials being that she's a SHE and unlikely to have brushed anyone's knee with her hand.

    Having a pro hanging defence secretary who believes the odd mistake isn't a problem should add to the gaiety of this government.

    Time for Mrs Corbyn to get her Littlewoods catalogue out.


    Ugh! She’d be a sight to behold at Questions if she got rattled. And she can get rattled.
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    Theresa May needs to rediscover some of the nerve and steel that led her to deliver the nasty party speech to her own party. She must see that the Conservative party is enervated. Only she can start to change that. She has been given the perfect opportunity to do so. She should take it.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,995
    I've known a few ex-soldiers in my time, and given their often somewhat rough and ready nature, I do wonder what the 'high standards' Fallon expects in their personal lives. ;)
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    NormNorm Posts: 1,251
    Nigelb said:

    It seems exceptionally unlikely that Fallon resigned for a clumsy pass at a journalist 15 years ago - and if he truly did, then he's more of a fool than I took him for.

    Assuming that I'm right, then his resignation statement fell well short of the candour which might have served his party better. He gave no substantial explanation for his resignation, merely a load of circumlocutory periphrastic waffle - and no real apology, either general or specific.

    Such lack of candour sets a very low bar indeed for cabinet resignations (as is already being mooted on this morning's news programmes), and could not be better designed to set the media in pursuit of further scalps.

    Well exactly. Incidentally one report yesterday emphasised how his sudden departure would throw the MoD into chaos. I am not sure what kind of "offence" is deemed serious enough for him to resign as a minister but not serious enough for him to resign as an MP, being stripped of his knighthood or worse.. Fallon has indeed set a low bar and an unwelcome precedent.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @bbclaurak: Ruth Davidson on @BBCr4today in a second - urging May to 'clean out the stables'
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926
    Roger said:

    FPT

    I just heard on radio that Priti Patel was a likely replacement. Her credentials being that she's a SHE and unlikely to have brushed anyone's knee with her hand.

    Having a pro hanging defence secretary who believes the odd mistake isn't a problem should add to the gaiety of this government.

    Time for Mrs Corbyn to get her Littlewoods catalogue out.

    Worst of all I didn't back her last night
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    swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,435
    Fallon's age may have been a factor, but what he really did is what interests me. Of course, he isnt the first Def Sec to resign in recent times, Liam Fox did so in 2011 (over access for friends) and look where that got him........
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    Tom Tugendhat or Johnny Mercer please.

    If Mrs May had any sense she’d oust Patrick McLoughlin today as well and bring those two in.
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    Roger said:

    FPT

    I just heard on radio that Priti Patel was a likely replacement. Her credentials being that she's a SHE and unlikely to have brushed anyone's knee with her hand.

    Having a pro hanging defence secretary who believes the odd mistake isn't a problem should add to the gaiety of this government.

    Time for Mrs Corbyn to get her Littlewoods catalogue out.

    She’s no longer a supporter of the death penalty.

    She’s seen the light.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    Michael Fallon a Lothario! Who'd have guessed. Apparently it's not a single leg we're talking about
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @faisalislam: Also Bank of England set to put interest rates up in a few hours time - first time in a decade
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,836
    Scott_P said:

    @faisalislam: Also Bank of England set to put interest rates up in a few hours time - first time in a decade

    About time they did.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896
    Scott_P said:

    @faisalislam: Also Bank of England set to put interest rates up in a few hours time - first time in a decade

    And about bloody time too, should never have cut them last year.
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    Scott_P said:

    @faisalislam: Also Bank of England set to put interest rates up in a few hours time - first time in a decade

    Those poor savers who've paid off their mortgages.....
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847
    Russia is using our freedoms against us.

    There is no doubt in my mind that they interfered in both Scottish Independence and Brexit referenda. Unsuccessfully in the first instance...
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    Mr. Sandpit, I agree. Daft to cut rates then.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891

    Roger said:

    FPT

    I just heard on radio that Priti Patel was a likely replacement. Her credentials being that she's a SHE and unlikely to have brushed anyone's knee with her hand.

    Having a pro hanging defence secretary who believes the odd mistake isn't a problem should add to the gaiety of this government.

    Time for Mrs Corbyn to get her Littlewoods catalogue out.

    She’s no longer a supporter of the death penalty.

    She’s seen the light.
    As this latest farrago shows 'what's said cannot be unsaid, what's done cannot be undone'
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,287
    Wives and sweethearts...may they never meet.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2346330/Navy-ditches-toast-wives-sweethearts-time-200-years-women-sea.html

    Fallon has no idea about The Navy.
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    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    FPT

    I just heard on radio that Priti Patel was a likely replacement. Her credentials being that she's a SHE and unlikely to have brushed anyone's knee with her hand.

    Having a pro hanging defence secretary who believes the odd mistake isn't a problem should add to the gaiety of this government.

    Time for Mrs Corbyn to get her Littlewoods catalogue out.

    She’s no longer a supporter of the death penalty.

    She’s seen the light.
    As this latest farrago shows 'what's said cannot be unsaid, what's done cannot be undone'
    Don’t worry, it’s all part of the master plan, she’ll recant her Brexit beliefs too.
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    Roger said:

    FPT

    I just heard on radio that Priti Patel was a likely replacement. Her credentials being that she's a SHE and unlikely to have brushed anyone's knee with her hand.

    Having a pro hanging defence secretary who believes the odd mistake isn't a problem should add to the gaiety of this government.

    Time for Mrs Corbyn to get her Littlewoods catalogue out.

    She’s no longer a supporter of the death penalty.

    She’s seen the light.
    If she's becomes Defence Secretary then she'll be applying the death penalty by drone.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,744
    I think David L has it right, May lacks the power for a major shake up. Only way people are leaving us by choice or if more stories on Ill behaviour comes up.

    So when’s the cross party meeting on all this? I bet they cannot wait to depressingly reveal to one another how many if their MPs are gropers, how many are merely sexist, and so on.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,995
    Tobias Ellwood would be ideal for the Defence Secretary role and there should also be promotions for Johnny Mercer and Tom Tugenhadt sooner rather than later.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,995
    edited November 2017
    Roger said:

    FPT

    I just heard on radio that Priti Patel was a likely replacement. Her credentials being that she's a SHE and unlikely to have brushed anyone's knee with her hand.

    Having a pro hanging defence secretary who believes the odd mistake isn't a problem should add to the gaiety of this government.

    Time for Mrs Corbyn to get her Littlewoods catalogue out.

    A majority of the country supports the death penalty for murder
    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/08/13/capital-punishment-50-years-favoured/

    Mrs Panel's views may be more popular than you think, although personally I do not support the death penalty except possibly lethal injection for serial killers.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    An honourable man. The barman not only accepted the watch but sold it the following day for several thousand pounds.
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    Sean_F said:

    Scott_P said:

    @faisalislam: Also Bank of England set to put interest rates up in a few hours time - first time in a decade

    About time they did.
    I think its fair to say that seven years of the ZIRP rentier economy has not benefitted the country as a whole.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,744
    edited November 2017
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    FPT

    I just heard on radio that Priti Patel was a likely replacement. Her credentials being that she's a SHE and unlikely to have brushed anyone's knee with her hand.

    Having a pro hanging defence secretary who believes the odd mistake isn't a problem should add to the gaiety of this government.

    Time for Mrs Corbyn to get her Littlewoods catalogue out.

    She’s no longer a supporter of the death penalty.

    She’s seen the light.
    As this latest farrago shows 'what's said cannot be unsaid, what's done cannot be undone'
    A somewhat harsh view. More joy in heaven over sinner who recants and all that. Even the fallon thing seems to be down to likelihood of more allegations he cannot deny establishing a pattern rather than the initial report, for which an apology seems generally to have been thought acceptable. We should welcome politicians who sincerely move away from views we dislike.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,836
    A clumsy pass is one thing, but I struggle to understand why people think that exposing themselves to others will be well received. But, perhaps it is part of today's etiquette, in which one texts pictures of one's genitalia to all and sundry, while complaining about sexual harassment.
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    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    FPT

    I just heard on radio that Priti Patel was a likely replacement. Her credentials being that she's a SHE and unlikely to have brushed anyone's knee with her hand.

    Having a pro hanging defence secretary who believes the odd mistake isn't a problem should add to the gaiety of this government.

    Time for Mrs Corbyn to get her Littlewoods catalogue out.

    A majority of the country supports the death penalty for murder
    A majority of the country also supports renationalising the railways.

    Doesn’t mean they are right.
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    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    Scott_P said:

    @faisalislam: Also Bank of England set to put interest rates up in a few hours time - first time in a decade

    I have the champers on ice for when they do.

    The first tiny step (if they do put them up) back to sanity.
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    TonyETonyE Posts: 938

    Russia is using our freedoms against us.

    There is no doubt in my mind that they interfered in both Scottish Independence and Brexit referenda. Unsuccessfully in the first instance...
    I think this might be a stretch. If there's an opportunity to stir up a bit of trouble I'm sure that Russia does take advantage. But there is only opportunity for this when there is a clear wedge already opening up the space.

    So in Brexit terms, Russia might have desired the result, but any interference could only have effect if they were pushing at an open door, and therefore it is very difficult to judge how much influence that interference might have had.
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    A new Defence Secretary now -- or wait a few days in case the Sunday papers cause more resignations. A reshuffle every day for a week would not help the Prime Minister's already shaky reputation for strength and stability.
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    Roger said:

    An honourable man. The barman not only accepted the watch but sold it the following day for several thousand pounds.
    Is that honourable in the Brutus sense ?
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891

    Roger said:

    An honourable man. The barman not only accepted the watch but sold it the following day for several thousand pounds.
    Is that honourable in the Brutus sense ?
    Yes!
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,995
    edited November 2017
    dr_spyn said:

    Wives and sweethearts...may they never meet.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2346330/Navy-ditches-toast-wives-sweethearts-time-200-years-women-sea.html

    Fallon has no idea about The Navy.

    Somewhere (I think the Great Redoubt at Dover) had three doors. One was for "Officers and their ladies," another "Sergeants and their wives," and the final, "Soldiers and their women."

    Edit: http://www.dover-kent.co.uk/western_heights_shaft.htm
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    edited November 2017
    Great tip by Mr. Price about this time last year for the Astros to win the, er, thingummyjig at 13. Huzzah!

    Edited extra bit: World Series, apparently. I wasn't sure if I'd backed it, but I did, with a small stake.
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    Roger said:

    An honourable man. The barman not only accepted the watch but sold it the following day for several thousand pounds.
    Then Spacey's people asked for it back and complained to the hotel about the barman.

    Spacey is indeed a great actor - he also appears to be a pretty scuzzy human being - and he's far from the first in that category.
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    Roger said:

    FPT

    I just heard on radio that Priti Patel was a likely replacement. Her credentials being that she's a SHE and unlikely to have brushed anyone's knee with her hand.

    Having a pro hanging defence secretary who believes the odd mistake isn't a problem should add to the gaiety of this government.

    Time for Mrs Corbyn to get her Littlewoods catalogue out.

    She’s no longer a supporter of the death penalty.

    She’s seen the light.
    If she's becomes Defence Secretary then she'll be applying the death penalty by drone.
    Without any of this due process or judicial malarky either.......
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896
    There’s also a very big story being hinted at in the American gossip columns today, about a private island in the Caribbean. Potential to bring down half of Hollywood and a bunch more of US high society if even a fraction of what’s hinted at can be stood up. Apparently something the FBI looked at years ago and got nowhere, but people now might be willing to speak in the light of recent revelations about Weinstein, Spacey etc. No link from me, you’ll have to find it yourselves!
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    Great tip by Mr. Price about this time last year for the Astros to win the, er, thingummyjig at 13. Huzzah!

    The World Series in the rounders.
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    It was the Coalition that rather fossilised the cabinet and stopped new talent coming through.

    That Coalition does increasingly look like a golden era of good government.

    In other news NZ is planning to tackle its housing and infrastructure challenge via importing British construction workers. Not sure how this fits with clamping down on migration. I expect a similar drive here would be the same but an order of magnitude bigger.

    https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/02/new-zealand-launches-biggest-ever-drive-to-attract-brexit-britains-builders

    Haven't we been told that British construction workers are expensive, unskilled, lazy and in insufficient numbers ?

    As to the coalition - hundreds of billions of extra borrowing, stagnant productivity and wages, continuous trade deficits, Middle Eastern warmongering, uncontrolled immigration, triple lock pensions, unafforadable housing, student debts, EU humiliations, Scottish nationalism rampant, vanity projects and plenty more I've temporarily forgotten.

    There's not much good government there.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,995

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    FPT

    I just heard on radio that Priti Patel was a likely replacement. Her credentials being that she's a SHE and unlikely to have brushed anyone's knee with her hand.

    Having a pro hanging defence secretary who believes the odd mistake isn't a problem should add to the gaiety of this government.

    Time for Mrs Corbyn to get her Littlewoods catalogue out.

    A majority of the country supports the death penalty for murder
    A majority of the country also supports renationalising the railways.

    Doesn’t mean they are right.
    No it does not but Corbyn clearly won votes on renationalising the railways and there is no necessary reason why Patel supporting the death penalty should lose her votes, indeed she may even gain some.
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    Mr. Eagles, indeed, yes. The World Series. Which is not renowned for the huge number of nations competing.

    Mind you, the Holy Roman Empire wasn't holy, Roman, or an empire so it's not the first misleading title in history.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,995

    It was the Coalition that rather fossilised the cabinet and stopped new talent coming through.

    That Coalition does increasingly look like a golden era of good government.

    In other news NZ is planning to tackle its housing and infrastructure challenge via importing British construction workers. Not sure how this fits with clamping down on migration. I expect a similar drive here would be the same but an order of magnitude bigger.

    https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/02/new-zealand-launches-biggest-ever-drive-to-attract-brexit-britains-builders

    The new New Zealand PM is a leftwing metropolitan liberal, she will only make token concessions on immigration to appease NZ First who she needs for a majority.

    In any case New Zealand has a points system and has never had free movement so it can import workers when it needs their skills.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,836
    Sandpit said:

    There’s also a very big story being hinted at in the American gossip columns today, about a private island in the Caribbean. Potential to bring down half of Hollywood and a bunch more of US high society if even a fraction of what’s hinted at can be stood up. Apparently something the FBI looked at years ago and got nowhere, but people now might be willing to speak in the light of recent revelations about Weinstein, Spacey etc. No link from me, you’ll have to find it yourselves!
    IMHO, it will be a paedophile scandal that really rocks Hollywood. Lots of attractive child actors and actresses being prostituted to powerful players. Mario Puzo knew what he was writing about.
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    PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_P said:

    @faisalislam: Also Bank of England set to put interest rates up in a few hours time - first time in a decade

    And about bloody time too, should never have cut them last year.
    But we had a general election in the offing. Though nobody knew about it, of course.
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    A new Defence Secretary now -- or wait a few days in case the Sunday papers cause more resignations. A reshuffle every day for a week would not help the Prime Minister's already shaky reputation for strength and stability.

    That depends on what the government knows but the media doesn't and what the media knows but the government doesn't.

    The unknown knows and the know unknowns.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,744
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    FPT

    I just heard on radio that Priti Patel was a likely replacement. Her credentials being that she's a SHE and unlikely to have brushed anyone's knee with her hand.

    Having a pro hanging defence secretary who believes the odd mistake isn't a problem should add to the gaiety of this government.

    Time for Mrs Corbyn to get her Littlewoods catalogue out.

    A majority of the country supports the death penalty for murder
    A majority of the country also supports renationalising the railways.

    Doesn’t mean they are right.
    No it does not but Corbyn clearly won votes on renationalising the railways and there is no necessary reason why Patel supporting the death penalty should lose her votes, indeed she may even gain some.
    I think it’s an issue unlikely to be decisive in many people’s decision, not least since there are no plans to reintroduce the death penalty. Now if she became leader and advocated a change, we’d find out if it’d help or hinder - as you point out, most say they support it.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,983
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    FPT

    I just heard on radio that Priti Patel was a likely replacement. Her credentials being that she's a SHE and unlikely to have brushed anyone's knee with her hand.

    Having a pro hanging defence secretary who believes the odd mistake isn't a problem should add to the gaiety of this government.

    Time for Mrs Corbyn to get her Littlewoods catalogue out.

    A majority of the country supports the death penalty for murder
    A majority of the country also supports renationalising the railways.

    Doesn’t mean they are right.
    No it does not but Corbyn clearly won votes on renationalising the railways and there is no necessary reason why Patel supporting the death penalty should lose her votes, indeed she may even gain some.
    My (reasonably good) information suggests that she’s not that popular with some fairly high in her local party.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,298
    rkrkrk said:

    Theresa May should promote Rory Stewart as it would be good for my book.

    or Tim Tugendhat or Leo Docherty, both of whom would be that skipped generation.

    Thinking is, however, that as a major office, it can't be given to a newcomer to the Cabinet, and therefore it will be someone already in the Cabinet, and probably at SoS level.
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    Sandpit said:

    There’s also a very big story being hinted at in the American gossip columns today, about a private island in the Caribbean. Potential to bring down half of Hollywood and a bunch more of US high society if even a fraction of what’s hinted at can be stood up. Apparently something the FBI looked at years ago and got nowhere, but people now might be willing to speak in the light of recent revelations about Weinstein, Spacey etc. No link from me, you’ll have to find it yourselves!
    Sounds like Tiberius on Capri.
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    Mr. Topping, although a junior minister being promoted does mean that vacancy could then be filled by a talented backbencher.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,744

    A new Defence Secretary now -- or wait a few days in case the Sunday papers cause more resignations. A reshuffle every day for a week would not help the Prime Minister's already shaky reputation for strength and stability.

    That depends on what the government knows but the media doesn't and what the media knows but the government doesn't.

    The unknown knows and the know unknowns.
    Indeed - it relies also on people owning up, since it’d be a bit harsh to sack or forcibly resign someone on the basis of a denied allegation of impropriety (something serious and suspension might be in order)
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    edited November 2017

    It was the Coalition that rather fossilised the cabinet and stopped new talent coming through.

    That Coalition does increasingly look like a golden era of good government.

    In other news NZ is planning to tackle its housing and infrastructure challenge via importing British construction workers. Not sure how this fits with clamping down on migration. I expect a similar drive here would be the same but an order of magnitude bigger...

    Except Hammond/May are apparently very hesitant about a large house building program as they don't want to mess up the borrowing figures.

    Which is crazy, as it would be one form of government investment almost guaranteed to generate a long term real return at current interest rates.

    (edit - and would leave less borrowing headroom for any future Corbyn administration to borrow for less productive forms pf spending...)
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,744
    TOPPING said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Theresa May should promote Rory Stewart as it would be good for my book.

    or Tim Tugendhat or Leo Docherty, both of whom would be that skipped generation.

    Thinking is, however, that as a major office, it can't be given to a newcomer to the Cabinet, and therefore it will be someone already in the Cabinet, and probably at SoS level.
    I know he had previous experience, but wasn’t fallon a junior minister this time around when he was promoted to the cabinet?
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,836

    It was the Coalition that rather fossilised the cabinet and stopped new talent coming through.

    That Coalition does increasingly look like a golden era of good government.

    In other news NZ is planning to tackle its housing and infrastructure challenge via importing British construction workers. Not sure how this fits with clamping down on migration. I expect a similar drive here would be the same but an order of magnitude bigger.

    https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/02/new-zealand-launches-biggest-ever-drive-to-attract-brexit-britains-builders

    Haven't we been told that British construction workers are expensive, unskilled, lazy and in insufficient numbers ?

    As to the coalition - hundreds of billions of extra borrowing, stagnant productivity and wages, continuous trade deficits, Middle Eastern warmongering, uncontrolled immigration, triple lock pensions, unafforadable housing, student debts, EU humiliations, Scottish nationalism rampant, vanity projects and plenty more I've temporarily forgotten.

    There's not much good government there.
    Construction has been the real star of the economy since 2013, with output up 27%.

    I think the government's economic record has been better than you describe. The budget deficit has gone from 11% of GDP to 2%, while unemployment has halved.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,744

    Sandpit said:

    There’s also a very big story being hinted at in the American gossip columns today, about a private island in the Caribbean. Potential to bring down half of Hollywood and a bunch more of US high society if even a fraction of what’s hinted at can be stood up. Apparently something the FBI looked at years ago and got nowhere, but people now might be willing to speak in the light of recent revelations about Weinstein, Spacey etc. No link from me, you’ll have to find it yourselves!
    Sounds like Tiberius on Capri.
    There was a man who knew how to live.
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    kle4 said:

    A new Defence Secretary now -- or wait a few days in case the Sunday papers cause more resignations. A reshuffle every day for a week would not help the Prime Minister's already shaky reputation for strength and stability.

    That depends on what the government knows but the media doesn't and what the media knows but the government doesn't.

    The unknown knows and the know unknowns.
    Indeed - it relies also on people owning up, since it’d be a bit harsh to sack or forcibly resign someone on the basis of a denied allegation of impropriety (something serious and suspension might be in order)
    Fallon has rather lowered the bar by resigning ostensibly over JHB's knee (even if it was actually about something more serious).
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,298
    kle4 said:

    TOPPING said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Theresa May should promote Rory Stewart as it would be good for my book.

    or Tim Tugendhat or Leo Docherty, both of whom would be that skipped generation.

    Thinking is, however, that as a major office, it can't be given to a newcomer to the Cabinet, and therefore it will be someone already in the Cabinet, and probably at SoS level.
    I know he had previous experience, but wasn’t fallon a junior minister this time around when he was promoted to the cabinet?
    y but plenty of previous, including prior shadow cabinet experience.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,983
    Sean_F said:

    It was the Coalition that rather fossilised the cabinet and stopped new talent coming through.

    That Coalition does increasingly look like a golden era of good government.

    In other news NZ is planning to tackle its housing and infrastructure challenge via importing British construction workers. Not sure how this fits with clamping down on migration. I expect a similar drive here would be the same but an order of magnitude bigger.

    https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/02/new-zealand-launches-biggest-ever-drive-to-attract-brexit-britains-builders

    Haven't we been told that British construction workers are expensive, unskilled, lazy and in insufficient numbers ?

    As to the coalition - hundreds of billions of extra borrowing, stagnant productivity and wages, continuous trade deficits, Middle Eastern warmongering, uncontrolled immigration, triple lock pensions, unafforadable housing, student debts, EU humiliations, Scottish nationalism rampant, vanity projects and plenty more I've temporarily forgotten.

    There's not much good government there.
    Construction has been the real star of the economy since 2013, with output up 27%.

    I think the government's economic record has been better than you describe. The budget deficit has gone from 11% of GDP to 2%, while unemployment has halved.
    You wouldn’t think there was a problem with construction of new homes round here. Colchester, Chelmsford have enormous new estates, and more are planned.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896
    TOPPING said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Theresa May should promote Rory Stewart as it would be good for my book.

    or Tim Tugendhat or Leo Docherty, both of whom would be that skipped generation.

    Thinking is, however, that as a major office, it can't be given to a newcomer to the Cabinet, and therefore it will be someone already in the Cabinet, and probably at SoS level.
    Some sort of a reshuffle is inevitable, unless they can promote someone from within the same department. As others have said, the PM is going to be wary of other scandals coming to light, I imagine she’ll be spending today with the whips and the spooks trying to work out who’s in trouble.

    She really doesn’t want to be making changes every few days for weeks on end, as Corbyn had to last year, it gives the impression of a massive shambles especially when in government.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited November 2017
    Sean_F said:

    A clumsy pass is one thing, but I struggle to understand why people think that exposing themselves to others will be well received. But, perhaps it is part of today's etiquette, in which one texts pictures of one's genitalia to all and sundry, while complaining about sexual harassment.
    Some years ago my PA came back from the carpark looking shocked and said there was a man on the stairs who had just flashed at her and asked me to see her to her car. I went with her and as we walked up the stairs there was a man in a raincoat. She said 'That's him! That's him!'

    So I went up to him and said 'Did you just flash at this lady?' 'No'. He said. 'It wasn't me' Turning to my PA 'Are you sure it was him?' OF COURSE I'M SURE!. Turning to him 'She's sure it was you'. 'Honestly it wasn't me' he said looking pathetic. Realising there was nowhere else to go I said 'Well if it was don't ever do it again'!

    She didn't speak to me for weeks
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,995

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    FPT

    I just heard on radio that Priti Patel was a likely replacement. Her credentials being that she's a SHE and unlikely to have brushed anyone's knee with her hand.

    Having a pro hanging defence secretary who believes the odd mistake isn't a problem should add to the gaiety of this government.

    Time for Mrs Corbyn to get her Littlewoods catalogue out.

    A majority of the country supports the death penalty for murder
    A majority of the country also supports renationalising the railways.

    Doesn’t mean they are right.
    No it does not but Corbyn clearly won votes on renationalising the railways and there is no necessary reason why Patel supporting the death penalty should lose her votes, indeed she may even gain some.
    My (reasonably good) information suggests that she’s not that popular with some fairly high in her local party.
    Corbyn was not that popular with officials in Labour either
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    checks next Tory leader betting slips...
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,287
    'Sociable and approachable politician', new political euphemism for tired and emotional?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41840007
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,298
    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Theresa May should promote Rory Stewart as it would be good for my book.

    or Tim Tugendhat or Leo Docherty, both of whom would be that skipped generation.

    Thinking is, however, that as a major office, it can't be given to a newcomer to the Cabinet, and therefore it will be someone already in the Cabinet, and probably at SoS level.
    Some sort of a reshuffle is inevitable, unless they can promote someone from within the same department. As others have said, the PM is going to be wary of other scandals coming to light, I imagine she’ll be spending today with the whips and the spooks trying to work out who’s in trouble.

    She really doesn’t want to be making changes every few days for weeks on end, as Corbyn had to last year, it gives the impression of a massive shambles especially when in government.
    Agreed on that but the government seems to be in an ongoing shambles.

    If Rory Stewart going in to No. 10 means he's got it then of course my previous comments become moot.
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    kle4 said:

    A new Defence Secretary now -- or wait a few days in case the Sunday papers cause more resignations. A reshuffle every day for a week would not help the Prime Minister's already shaky reputation for strength and stability.

    That depends on what the government knows but the media doesn't and what the media knows but the government doesn't.

    The unknown knows and the know unknowns.
    Indeed - it relies also on people owning up, since it’d be a bit harsh to sack or forcibly resign someone on the basis of a denied allegation of impropriety (something serious and suspension might be in order)
    Fallon has rather lowered the bar by resigning ostensibly over JHB's knee (even if it was actually about something more serious).
    From the sounds of it there would 'likely' have been other stuff. Not serious stuff, but just a drip-drip of stories about inappropriate flirting and stepping over a line.

    Which is going to be a big issue, I'm sure there's plenty of thing 'like' this which happen to a lot of people everyday, both in Westminster and in nigh on every workplace.

    Even if I examine my own behaviour, i've never approached a collegue or someone i've worked with in a sexual way, but i've engaged in flavourful jokes/banter with women which have that type of humour as well.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,836
    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    There’s also a very big story being hinted at in the American gossip columns today, about a private island in the Caribbean. Potential to bring down half of Hollywood and a bunch more of US high society if even a fraction of what’s hinted at can be stood up. Apparently something the FBI looked at years ago and got nowhere, but people now might be willing to speak in the light of recent revelations about Weinstein, Spacey etc. No link from me, you’ll have to find it yourselves!
    Sounds like Tiberius on Capri.
    There was a man who knew how to live.
    With his " minnows".
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    Sean_F said:

    It was the Coalition that rather fossilised the cabinet and stopped new talent coming through.

    That Coalition does increasingly look like a golden era of good government.

    In other news NZ is planning to tackle its housing and infrastructure challenge via importing British construction workers. Not sure how this fits with clamping down on migration. I expect a similar drive here would be the same but an order of magnitude bigger.

    https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/02/new-zealand-launches-biggest-ever-drive-to-attract-brexit-britains-builders

    Haven't we been told that British construction workers are expensive, unskilled, lazy and in insufficient numbers ?

    As to the coalition - hundreds of billions of extra borrowing, stagnant productivity and wages, continuous trade deficits, Middle Eastern warmongering, uncontrolled immigration, triple lock pensions, unafforadable housing, student debts, EU humiliations, Scottish nationalism rampant, vanity projects and plenty more I've temporarily forgotten.

    There's not much good government there.
    Construction has been the real star of the economy since 2013, with output up 27%.

    I think the government's economic record has been better than you describe. The budget deficit has gone from 11% of GDP to 2%, while unemployment has halved.
    A trillion quid of government borrowing and spending is going to lead to lots of low level service sector jobs.

    The Thatcher government could have done the same but chose to keep the public finances in order and reform the economy. All that popular angst and political damage from three million unemployed could have been avoided in retrospect.
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    You do really feel sometimes that May is both an unlucky general and been given the mother of all hospital passes.
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    checks next Tory leader betting slips...
    What a performance and what a result last night. Liverpool 3 Maribor 0, hope you saw it.
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    brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    edited November 2017
    Nigelb said:

    It was the Coalition that rather fossilised the cabinet and stopped new talent coming through.

    That Coalition does increasingly look like a golden era of good government.

    In other news NZ is planning to tackle its housing and infrastructure challenge via importing British construction workers. Not sure how this fits with clamping down on migration. I expect a similar drive here would be the same but an order of magnitude bigger...

    Except Hammond/May are apparently very hesitant about a large house building program as they don't want to mess up the borrowing figures.

    Which is crazy, as it would be one form of government investment almost guaranteed to generate a long term real return at current interest rates.

    (edit - and would leave less borrowing headroom for any future Corbyn administration to borrow for less productive forms pf spending...)
    £25 billion a year being effectively thrown away on housing benefit should be the reason we do the borrowing - because in the long term it should cut the HB bill. Otherwise that is just going to go up and up as more people rent - particularly in the future in retirement which is another ticking time bomb. And of course those renting in retirement will have no assets to fund their social care either.

    Of course Hammond made his money in property and buy to let - so maybe from a purely personal perspective he doesn't want more supply?
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    You do really feel sometimes that May is both an unlucky general and been given the mother of all hospital passes.

    Her own fault. Nobody made her call a snap election nor run an awful campaign.
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    If RS shines in Defence Sec job, then thats a basis for having a leadership run. Only in opposition though, not to come to PM direct.

    Corbyn Vs Stewart. I'd pay to see that Marxist get his arse handed to him.
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908
    TOPPING said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Theresa May should promote Rory Stewart as it would be good for my book.

    or Tim Tugendhat or Leo Docherty, both of whom would be that skipped generation.

    Thinking is, however, that as a major office, it can't be given to a newcomer to the Cabinet, and therefore it will be someone already in the Cabinet, and probably at SoS level.
    Some sort of a reshuffle is inevitable, unless they can promote someone from within the same department. As others have said, the PM is going to be wary of other scandals coming to light, I imagine she’ll be spending today with the whips and the spooks trying to work out who’s in trouble.

    She really doesn’t want to be making changes every few days for weeks on end, as Corbyn had to last year, it gives the impression of a massive shambles especially when in government.
    Agreed on that but the government seems to be in an ongoing shambles.

    If Rory Stewart going in to No. 10 means he's got it then of course my previous comments become moot.
    Possible he is going in to resign as well!
    But I'm pretty hopeful he isn't.

    If he gets defence then my +Stewart position will look pretty good.
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908

    You do really feel sometimes that May is both an unlucky general and been given the mother of all hospital passes.

    She was pretty damn lucky in the Tory leadership contest though...
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    You do really feel sometimes that May is both an unlucky general and been given the mother of all hospital passes.

    Her own fault. Nobody made her call a snap election nor run an awful campaign.
    On that granted.
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    I’m sure this story will get an airing if Rory gets Defence.

    When Prof Noah Coburn volunteered to work in war-torn Afghanistan for the charity established by Rory Stewart and the Prince of Wales, his wife, Shoshana, agreed to go with him.

    She promised her parents that she would stay for no more than nine months. Little did Prof Coburn know, however, that the couple’s marriage would founder and that his wife would end up being charmed by Stewart, who is now a prominent Tory MP.

    “Noah was absolutely devastated when his marriage broke down,” a friend of the eminent American anthropologist tells Mandrake. “He loved Shoshana very dearly.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9434945/How-lover-of-Conservative-MP-Rory-Stewart-left-her-husband-heartbroken-in-Afghanistan.html
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    woody662woody662 Posts: 255
    It won't be Rory 100% guaranteed
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    I’m sure this story will get an airing if Rory gets Defence.

    When Prof Noah Coburn volunteered to work in war-torn Afghanistan for the charity established by Rory Stewart and the Prince of Wales, his wife, Shoshana, agreed to go with him.

    She promised her parents that she would stay for no more than nine months. Little did Prof Coburn know, however, that the couple’s marriage would founder and that his wife would end up being charmed by Stewart, who is now a prominent Tory MP.

    “Noah was absolutely devastated when his marriage broke down,” a friend of the eminent American anthropologist tells Mandrake. “He loved Shoshana very dearly.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9434945/How-lover-of-Conservative-MP-Rory-Stewart-left-her-husband-heartbroken-in-Afghanistan.html

    Meh... Life happens. Not much there.
This discussion has been closed.