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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Patel goes and so the attention will now focus on Boris

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited November 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Patel goes and so the attention will now focus on Boris

#Prexit. It's official. Priti Patel has resigned, No.10 sources say.

Read the full story here


«134

Comments

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,088
    edited November 2017
    First.? So Dfid outlives Priti.
  • Don't forget Damian Green.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @euanmccolm: christ, she can’t even sack a liar properly.
  • Mrs May is a disgrace, she should have fired Priti Patel.

    Stupid dumb Librarian.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    May is on a hat-trick
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969
    edited November 2017
    Back to deserved obscurity for Priti Patel.

    That support of the death penalty, eesh.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,697
    Enough of this shower - Bring on Jezza!
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    Mrs May is a disgrace, she should have fired Priti Patel.

    Stupid dumb Librarian.

    Drag someone half way around the world under a media storm to resign them? Daft. If you're sacking them have the cajones to sack them.
  • IanB2 said:

    First.? So Dfid outlives Priti.

    :lol: Comment of the day!
  • stevefstevef Posts: 1,044
    Although the Tories dont realise it, this is more good news for them. Its another opportunity for May to cut out the old wood and replace it with younger and more electable blood. Patel really was not a good advertisement for the Tory party. She was the most hard faced of all the cabinet.

    Now she needs to get rid of Boris Johnson, replace Hammond, and although she is stuck with David Davies, the more younger members she can promote, the more likely is the Tory party to find a leader who can beat Corbyn in 2022.
  • FPT:

    We still don't know why the hell Patel did any of this on her hols?

    Or have I missed a step?
  • Jonathan said:

    May is on a hat-trick

    She hasn't done anything. They both resigned, remember?

    Her sacking Osborne seems like a lifetime ago
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @IanDunt: Maybe promoting people on the basis of how strongly they believe in Brexit isn't the best way to populate a Cabinet.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Scott_P said:
    The lefties will be upset as TM will carry on and re-appoint her successor and PP can return to cabinet in due course. In this climate win-win
    I would be very surprised if Ms Patel ever returned to the cabinet, except possibly as Party Chairman. There are a host of capable, young, ambitious Conservative MPs who are now ahead of her in the queue. And ultimately, I can't see Theresa May forgiving a cabinet minister for lying to her.
    Not just lying (repeatedly). Worse than that, having been summoned home, she went kicking and screaming by virtue of a (surely not) coincidentally timed Jewish Chronicle article which attempted to compromise No 10's position, forcing No 10 to issue an outright denial.

    And yet after all that she was still allowed to go with some semblance of grace. Utter weakness.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    She was so overrated. Just because she ticked a box. And a supporter of hanging.....she wanted to be PM, just imagine!
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,881
    Jonathan said:

    Mrs May is a disgrace, she should have fired Priti Patel.

    Stupid dumb Librarian.

    Drag someone half way around the world under a media storm to resign them? Daft. If you're sacking them have the cajones to sack them.
    TBH - this weirdness kind of gives the story more legs.
    Would have been better to sack her I suspect...
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited November 2017
    Sarah Wollaston says that TM would do well to look at ALL her cabinet. Why doesn't she stand for leader? She's charming bright and nice........I've just answered my own question.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,881

    FPT:

    We still don't know why the hell Patel did any of this on her hols?

    Or have I missed a step?

    No idea.
    I’m coming round to the view that she was just clueless and thought she was entitled to ignore official advice.
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    As I mentioned on the last meme, if May can't fire Patel even with all the recorded actions against her, then there is no way Boris will ever voluntarily resign, no matter what he gets up to.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    FPT:

    We still don't know why the hell Patel did any of this on her hols?

    Or have I missed a step?

    Hols ? Has anybody checked if she really paid for the holiday out of her own pocket - whatever she says. You cannot have Mr Polak with you on 12 occasions if you were really on a holiday.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,774
    Jonathan said:

    Mrs May is a disgrace, she should have fired Priti Patel.

    Stupid dumb Librarian.

    Drag someone half way around the world under a media storm to resign them? Daft. If you're sacking them have the cajones to sack them.
    It makes very little difference. The end result is the same.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,761
    Selwyn Lloyd officially resigned in 1962.

    He refused a peerage and demanded a public exchange of letters. Blake described his as 'frosty'. It contained the immortal line, 'You have told me you would like me to resign and this I willingly do.'

    Or Charles Clarke - 'The Prime Minister has told me he wishes me to leave the Home Office and while I disagree with his decision I do not dispute his right to make it.'

    Both Macmillan and Blair were gone within a year. Will May last that long? Matt seems very optimistic to suggest one disaster a day.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    If your looking for Boris to do the honourable thing, you're in for a long wait.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,088
    surbiton said:

    FPT:

    We still don't know why the hell Patel did any of this on her hols?

    Or have I missed a step?

    Hols ? Has anybody checked if she really paid for the holiday out of her own pocket - whatever she says. You cannot have Mr Polak with you on 12 occasions if you were really on a holiday.
    Will be interesting to see if Polak is expelled from the party.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    Any of us summoned back 5,000 miles for an urgent meeting with the boss, just after we’d arrived for a foreign trip, would probably go to that meeting with a letter of resignation in their pocket.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,881
    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Mrs May is a disgrace, she should have fired Priti Patel.

    Stupid dumb Librarian.

    Drag someone half way around the world under a media storm to resign them? Daft. If you're sacking them have the cajones to sack them.
    It makes very little difference. The end result is the same.
    I think a difference in media portrayal.
    One is easily portrayed as decisive. The other seems duplicitous.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,349
    Mr Surbiton,

    I too have been very disappointed by Priti Patel. She used to be a bit of a looker, but she's let herself go recently and put on loads of weight.

    As for ticking a box, I agree. The pretty woman box is one I'd support, although I generally don't approve of the box-ticking approach.

    We've got one party in total chaos and the other led by a total bonehead. The minor party still thinks it won the EU referendum.

    Join the NOTA party and chill out, you'll be able to sleep at night.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,761
    Jonathan said:

    If your looking for Boris to do the honourable thing, you're in for a long wait.

    53 years and counting so far...
  • rkrkrk said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Mrs May is a disgrace, she should have fired Priti Patel.

    Stupid dumb Librarian.

    Drag someone half way around the world under a media storm to resign them? Daft. If you're sacking them have the cajones to sack them.
    It makes very little difference. The end result is the same.
    I think a difference in media portrayal.
    One is easily portrayed as decisive. The other seems duplicitous.
    https://twitter.com/philipjcowley/status/928340838110978049
  • rkrkrk said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Mrs May is a disgrace, she should have fired Priti Patel.

    Stupid dumb Librarian.

    Drag someone half way around the world under a media storm to resign them? Daft. If you're sacking them have the cajones to sack them.
    It makes very little difference. The end result is the same.
    I think a difference in media portrayal.
    One is easily portrayed as decisive. The other seems duplicitous.
    Perhaps you think Carwyn Jones was decisive?
  • By not sacking Priti Patel, Theresa May has shown she's as impotent as a eunuch.
  • Sandpit said:

    Any of us summoned back 5,000 miles for an urgent meeting with the boss, just after we’d arrived for a foreign trip, would probably go to that meeting with a letter of resignation in their pocket.

    Dunno. These deluded 'i wanna be leader someday' types probably will think someone else is about to be sacked and I am going to get a promotion.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,881

    rkrkrk said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Mrs May is a disgrace, she should have fired Priti Patel.

    Stupid dumb Librarian.

    Drag someone half way around the world under a media storm to resign them? Daft. If you're sacking them have the cajones to sack them.
    It makes very little difference. The end result is the same.
    I think a difference in media portrayal.
    One is easily portrayed as decisive. The other seems duplicitous.
    https://twitter.com/philipjcowley/status/928340838110978049
    That’s interesting. Could be that the resignation normally ends the bad news cycle.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,774
    The decision to lose Ms Patel will - ultimately - be a good one for the Conservative Party. It will enable some new blood to come into the cabinet. And some of the talent is pretty good: whether Rory Stewart or Kwasi Kwarteng or Jacob Rees Mogg. Of course, any (or all) of them could turn out to be disastrous ministers. But trying out someone new, and with energy has to be a good thing.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,774
    rkrkrk said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Mrs May is a disgrace, she should have fired Priti Patel.

    Stupid dumb Librarian.

    Drag someone half way around the world under a media storm to resign them? Daft. If you're sacking them have the cajones to sack them.
    It makes very little difference. The end result is the same.
    I think a difference in media portrayal.
    One is easily portrayed as decisive. The other seems duplicitous.
    Most people will see it as one and the same.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    CD13 said:

    Mr Surbiton,

    I too have been very disappointed by Priti Patel. She used to be a bit of a looker, but she's let herself go recently and put on loads of weight.

    As for ticking a box, I agree. The pretty woman box is one I'd support, although I generally don't approve of the box-ticking approach.

    We've got one party in total chaos and the other led by a total bonehead. The minor party still thinks it won the EU referendum.

    Join the NOTA party and chill out, you'll be able to sleep at night.

    Of all the disappointments Prity Patel has wrought on her party no longer being a looker comes a long way down the list
  • Someone mentioned the Apprentice Taxi earlier on PB:

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/928343089189675008
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    If May couldn’t sack her why did she resign?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,697

    Someone mentioned the Apprentice Taxi earlier on PB:

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/928343089189675008

    Priti still looks happy happy! :D
  • rkrkrk said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Mrs May is a disgrace, she should have fired Priti Patel.

    Stupid dumb Librarian.

    Drag someone half way around the world under a media storm to resign them? Daft. If you're sacking them have the cajones to sack them.
    It makes very little difference. The end result is the same.
    I think a difference in media portrayal.
    One is easily portrayed as decisive. The other seems duplicitous.
    Perhaps you think Carwyn Jones was decisive?
    He is under pressure to resign tonight over the way he dealt with Carl Sargeant
  • MetatronMetatron Posts: 193
    In the summer I put bets on Damian Green and Priti Patel .to be next Tory leader - maybe I put a curse on them.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    CD13 said:

    I too have been very disappointed by Priti Patel. She used to be a bit of a looker, but she's let herself go recently and put on loads of weight.

    As for ticking a box, I agree. The pretty woman box is one I'd support, although I generally don't approve of the box-ticking approach.

    So looks is more important to you than ability?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    Sandpit said:

    Any of us summoned back 5,000 miles for an urgent meeting with the boss, just after we’d arrived for a foreign trip, would probably go to that meeting with a letter of resignation in their pocket.

    Dunno. These deluded 'i wanna be leader someday' types probably will think someone else is about to be sacked and I am going to get a promotion.
    Ha maybe. I’m sure promotions can be done over the phone if necessary though, sackings or “resignations” are pretty much always done face to face.

    Unless of course you’re James Comey, who found out he was fired when he saw it on TV.
  • MargmMargm Posts: 5
    In the end most Tory voters would probably be happy if no one replaced Priti Patel - and they just abolished the DFID department and spent it's budget on the NHS instead.
  • CD13 said:

    I too have been very disappointed by Priti Patel. She used to be a bit of a looker, but she's let herself go recently and put on loads of weight.

    As for ticking a box, I agree. The pretty woman box is one I'd support, although I generally don't approve of the box-ticking approach.

    So looks is more important to you than ability?
    Don't you think CD13 might be having a laugh?
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,881
    Sean_F said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Mrs May is a disgrace, she should have fired Priti Patel.

    Stupid dumb Librarian.

    Drag someone half way around the world under a media storm to resign them? Daft. If you're sacking them have the cajones to sack them.
    It makes very little difference. The end result is the same.
    I think a difference in media portrayal.
    One is easily portrayed as decisive. The other seems duplicitous.
    Most people will see it as one and the same.
    Normally I’d agree - but I think the flight thing gives it a ridiculous angle.
    Remember when Blair had someone fly back from Aus for a crucial vote?
    It gives the story a bit of juice... that’s my theory anyway.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Margm said:

    In the end most Tory voters would probably be happy if no one replaced Priti Patel - and they just abolished the DFID department and spent it's budget on the NHS instead.

    DFID key to Brexit. Want to trade?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,761

    CD13 said:

    I too have been very disappointed by Priti Patel. She used to be a bit of a looker, but she's let herself go recently and put on loads of weight.

    As for ticking a box, I agree. The pretty woman box is one I'd support, although I generally don't approve of the box-ticking approach.

    So looks is more important to you than ability?
    Not to me.

    Grammar, on the other hand... :rage:
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,547
    Margm said:

    In the end most Tory voters would probably be happy if no one replaced Priti Patel - and they just abolished the DFID department and spent it's budget on the NHS instead.

    The NHS doesn't need the money - its getting an extra £350m a week after Brexit don't forget.
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    GIN1138 said:

    Someone mentioned the Apprentice Taxi earlier on PB:

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/928343089189675008

    Priti still looks happy happy! :D
    Just got a large cheque from - https://www.flightradar24.com/40.16,20.57/4
  • Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Mrs May is a disgrace, she should have fired Priti Patel.

    Stupid dumb Librarian.

    Drag someone half way around the world under a media storm to resign them? Daft. If you're sacking them have the cajones to sack them.
    It makes very little difference. The end result is the same.
    The site seems at its most politically partisan tonight.
  • Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Mrs May is a disgrace, she should have fired Priti Patel.

    Stupid dumb Librarian.

    Drag someone half way around the world under a media storm to resign them? Daft. If you're sacking them have the cajones to sack them.
    It makes very little difference. The end result is the same.
    The site seems at its most politically partisan tonight.
    Predictable really
  • PendduPenddu Posts: 265
    edited November 2017

    rkrkrk said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Mrs May is a disgrace, she should have fired Priti Patel.

    Stupid dumb Librarian.

    Drag someone half way around the world under a media storm to resign them? Daft. If you're sacking them have the cajones to sack them.
    It makes very little difference. The end result is the same.
    I think a difference in media portrayal.
    One is easily portrayed as decisive. The other seems duplicitous.
    Perhaps you think Carwyn Jones was decisive?
    He is under pressure to resign tonight over the way he dealt with Carl Sargeant
    He won't resign....he is man enough to admit he got it wrong and publically apologise...which will be accepted by all but his bitterest enemies. He will probably come out of this stronger than when he went in...unfortunately

  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    rkrkrk said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Mrs May is a disgrace, she should have fired Priti Patel.

    Stupid dumb Librarian.

    Drag someone half way around the world under a media storm to resign them? Daft. If you're sacking them have the cajones to sack them.
    It makes very little difference. The end result is the same.
    I think a difference in media portrayal.
    One is easily portrayed as decisive. The other seems duplicitous.
    https://twitter.com/philipjcowley/status/928340838110978049
    Was Geoffrey Howe's resignation good for the popularity of the PM of the day? :D
  • rcs1000 said:

    The decision to lose Ms Patel will - ultimately - be a good one for the Conservative Party. It will enable some new blood to come into the cabinet. And some of the talent is pretty good: whether Rory Stewart or Kwasi Kwarteng or Jacob Rees Mogg. Of course, any (or all) of them could turn out to be disastrous ministers. But trying out someone new, and with energy has to be a good thing.

    If I'm honest the only job I'd feel comfortable putting JRM onto as a testing ground would be the Treasury/Business.

    He has enough experience in running Somerset capital to know numbers/business and be a good junior minister. But I think he prefers to argue from 1st principles from the backbenches.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited November 2017
    Talking of PR responses, Rog’s mate is in more doo doo...according to Rog this will all blow over and he will be seen in a great light.

    Kevin Spacey: New allegations emerge

    http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-41918966
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    alex. said:

    If May couldn’t sack her why did she resign?

    Because May told her she'd be sacked unless she resigned, I guess.

    There is an unpleasant whiff of tricoteuserie in the air. I hope I never have as humiliating a day as Patel has had today, and I don't see the fun in wishing it had been even worse. And May didn't get much praise for the size of her cojones for sacking Osborne, so it isn't clear what she is meant to do in these situations.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,349
    Ms C,

    "So looks is more important to you than ability?"

    When it comes to politics, I'm shallow. At least I do have self-awareness, something many politicians lack. The only ones I have ever had any regard for went nowhere or sunk rapidly.

    Frank Field, Charlie Kennedy, and even Neil Kinnock on a good day. All destined to be failures.

    Yet Gordon Brown and the moronic Jezza (nice man, shame about the brains) will end up being ex-PMs. Life isn't fair, Beverley (if I may be presumptuous), and as an LD supporter, you should know that. Never take politics seriously or you'll end up like Lenin - with a stroke at 54.


  • Penddu said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Mrs May is a disgrace, she should have fired Priti Patel.

    Stupid dumb Librarian.

    Drag someone half way around the world under a media storm to resign them? Daft. If you're sacking them have the cajones to sack them.
    It makes very little difference. The end result is the same.
    I think a difference in media portrayal.
    One is easily portrayed as decisive. The other seems duplicitous.
    Perhaps you think Carwyn Jones was decisive?
    He is under pressure to resign tonight over the way he dealt with Carl Sargeant
    He won't resign....he is man enough to admit he got it wrong and publically apologise...which will be accepted by all but his bitterest enemies. He will probably come out of this stronger than when he went in...unfortunately

    It was not looking that way on the Welsh news tonight. The family, his constituents, and the opposition are all having a go at Carwyn Jones who has called a meeting with the Welsh Labour Group tomorrow after which he will make a statement. The reporter suggested he could resign
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    I maintain what I said last night: I cannot understand why Patel is out of a job, while Boris is still in one.

    True, there was more intent (or at least, deliberate disregard for the rules) in Patel's actions than in Boris's gaffe, but ultimately, there haven't been victims from Patel's actions, whereas Boris has caused an innocent woman to be facing more unjust jail time.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Mrs May is a disgrace, she should have fired Priti Patel.

    Stupid dumb Librarian.

    Drag someone half way around the world under a media storm to resign them? Daft. If you're sacking them have the cajones to sack them.
    It makes very little difference. The end result is the same.
    The site seems at its most politically partisan tonight.
    Predictable really
    It's a big night for politics. Two cabinet ministers gone.

    Appreciate you might want to discuss the weather.
  • Danny565 said:

    I maintain what I said last night: I cannot understand why Patel is out of a job, while Boris is still in one.

    True, there was more intent (or at least, deliberate disregard for the rules) in Patel's actions than in Boris's gaffe, but ultimately, there haven't been victims from Patel's actions, whereas Boris has caused an innocent woman to be facing more unjust jail time.

    I get the feeling both the media and other politicians are trying to lower the rhetoric on it whilst stuff is happening behind the scenes with the Iranians.
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    Danny565 said:

    I maintain what I said last night: I cannot understand why Patel is out of a job, while Boris is still in one.

    True, there was more intent (or at least, deliberate disregard for the rules) in Patel's actions than in Boris's gaffe, but ultimately, there haven't been victims from Patel's actions, whereas Boris has caused an innocent woman to be facing more unjust jail time.

    Boris has more 'protective factors' in his favour than Priti. It's a political calculation
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,265
    Hard to tell, since polls are as rare as antelopes nowadays, so we don't have a recent comparator. You'd think all the sex stuff would have prompted someone to do a poll, but seemingly not.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,761
    edited November 2017
    CD13 said:

    Never take politics seriously or you'll end up like Lenin - with a stroke at 54.

    Actually he had his first stroke at 52 and didn't quite make it to 54.

    Although some commentators believe being shot in the neck in 1918 didn't help.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    Off topic: tales from one of the UK's new small business owners :). Me.

    I went to my bank to open a business account. While waiting the branch was proudly showing a film saying that it was going to reintroduce...... TA DA! ...... bank managers. Blimey. Just like there used to be. Whatever next? Employees who can count, maybe.

    It still took an hour and a lot of faffing mainly because I had to tell them what to do, what all the documents were and where to send them. Plus they did not know how to operate their own photocopying machine so had to get them to do that twice.

    I was very tempted to tell them that my new business will consist of training people like them not to behave like fuckwits but thought better of it. For the time being anyway.

    It's a wonder sometimes how our financial services sector grew to be as big as it is. Still, from what I hear of German banks they are even less capable than ours at organising a piss up in a brewery. So maybe that's it. Our competitive advantage is that we're not as crap as they are.

    There's a marketing slogan: "Not as crap as the other banks."

    A bit like the trader at a Dutch bank caught up in one of the many LIBOR scandals who wrote a chat saying: "There are bigger crooks than us out there."

    Never mind visions and fancy apps. I'd vote for a bit of boring competence, frankly, in most walks of life.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    Ishmael_Z said:

    alex. said:

    If May couldn’t sack her why did she resign?

    Because May told her she'd be sacked unless she resigned, I guess.

    There is an unpleasant whiff of tricoteuserie in the air. I hope I never have as humiliating a day as Patel has had today, and I don't see the fun in wishing it had been even worse. And May didn't get much praise for the size of her cojones for sacking Osborne, so it isn't clear what she is meant to do in these situations.
    So she could sack her then. Not what i’ve been reading on this thread. Or is she just bad at reading a bluff?

  • Jonathan said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Mrs May is a disgrace, she should have fired Priti Patel.

    Stupid dumb Librarian.

    Drag someone half way around the world under a media storm to resign them? Daft. If you're sacking them have the cajones to sack them.
    It makes very little difference. The end result is the same.
    The site seems at its most politically partisan tonight.
    Predictable really
    It's a big night for politics. Two cabinet ministers gone.

    Appreciate you might want to discuss the weather.
    No I am happy to discuss the politics. Good solution and gives TM another opportunity to bring in new faces, indeed I am not that worried if others have to go either sooner or later.

    It is from the new blood the next generation will emerge - by the way heard Gavin Williamson today - he looks very young but answered the questions well. Both my wife and I were pleasantly surprised
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited November 2017
    "Lord Polak is a veteran of Westminster’s corridors of power. He has taken literally hundreds of Tory MPs to Israel over the years, educating them about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and securing their support in parliamentary votes and the public arena."

    https://www.thejc.com/comment/columnists/stuart-polak-the-westminster-veteran-1.447570

    Who paid for these 'hundreds of trips?' Surely not the MPs who would have had a much more interesting time in Lebanon next door. This is starting to reek.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,761

    Penddu said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Mrs May is a disgrace, she should have fired Priti Patel.

    Stupid dumb Librarian.

    Drag someone half way around the world under a media storm to resign them? Daft. If you're sacking them have the cajones to sack them.
    It makes very little difference. The end result is the same.
    I think a difference in media portrayal.
    One is easily portrayed as decisive. The other seems duplicitous.
    Perhaps you think Carwyn Jones was decisive?
    He is under pressure to resign tonight over the way he dealt with Carl Sargeant
    He won't resign....he is man enough to admit he got it wrong and publically apologise...which will be accepted by all but his bitterest enemies. He will probably come out of this stronger than when he went in...unfortunately

    It was not looking that way on the Welsh news tonight. The family, his constituents, and the opposition are all having a go at Carwyn Jones who has called a meeting with the Welsh Labour Group tomorrow after which he will make a statement. The reporter suggested he could resign
    It has been suggested that he was coming towards the end for a while. He has after all had eight years in office.

    My immediate thought however is that there is literally nobody capable of replacing him. It is not quite out of the question we could be heading for new elections in Wales.
  • Ishmael_Z said:

    alex. said:

    If May couldn’t sack her why did she resign?

    Because May told her she'd be sacked unless she resigned, I guess.

    There is an unpleasant whiff of tricoteuserie in the air. I hope I never have as humiliating a day as Patel has had today, and I don't see the fun in wishing it had been even worse. And May didn't get much praise for the size of her cojones for sacking Osborne, so it isn't clear what she is meant to do in these situations.
    Either Patel has crossed the line or she hasn't. If she has then you remove her physically from the job (get on a plane home) and then sack her. If she hasn't then leave her to complete the trip and rebuke her at your leisure.

    Instead what we have is Patel overstepping the line, being pulled back to the UK and then being given the opportunity to resign. You either sack someone or you don't. "We've found out about x you have to go" is fine. But not when the minister is abroad and you invite the bizarre circus of the voyage home - and then DON'T carry out the sacking.

    She's Frit.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,349
    Mr Doctor,

    "Although some commentators believe being shot in the neck in 1918 didn't help."

    Thanks for the info, but it doesn't encourage me to take politics too seriously. I've already outlived him by 15 years and I intend to keep my record intact for a bit longer.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,761
    Roger said:

    "Lord Polak is a veteran of Westminster’s corridors of power. He has taken literally hundreds of Tory MPs to Israel over the years, educating them about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and securing their support in parliamentary votes and the public arena."

    https://www.thejc.com/comment/columnists/stuart-polak-the-westminster-veteran-
    1.447570

    Who paid for these 'hundreds of trips?' Surely not the MPs who would have had a much more interesting time in Lebanon next door. This is starting to reek.

    Wasn't it George Galloway who said that on a visit to Lebanon, 'I was constantly surrounded by beautiful women - I actually had sexual intercourse with some of them?'
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,761
    CD13 said:

    Mr Doctor,

    "Although some commentators believe being shot in the neck in 1918 didn't help."

    Thanks for the info, but it doesn't encourage me to take politics too seriously. I've already outlived him by 15 years and I intend to keep my record intact for a bit longer.

    May you be spared to admire my pointless pedantry for many more years, Doctor! :smiley:
  • midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112
    Ishmael_Z said:

    alex. said:

    If May couldn’t sack her why did she resign?

    Because May told her she'd be sacked unless she resigned, I guess.

    There is an unpleasant whiff of tricoteuserie in the air. I hope I never have as humiliating a day as Patel has had today, and I don't see the fun in wishing it had been even worse. And May didn't get much praise for the size of her cojones for sacking Osborne, so it isn't clear what she is meant to do in these situations.
    Pretty sure she got plenty of praise for sacking Osborne on here, albeit from the usual suspects. Just turned out it was pretty dumb to sack someone vastly more capable then herself in such an unpleasant manner. Predictably.

  • ydoethur said:

    Penddu said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Mrs May is a disgrace, she should have fired Priti Patel.

    Stupid dumb Librarian.

    Drag someone half way around the world under a media storm to resign them? Daft. If you're sacking them have the cajones to sack them.
    It makes very little difference. The end result is the same.
    I think a difference in media portrayal.
    One is easily portrayed as decisive. The other seems duplicitous.
    Perhaps you think Carwyn Jones was decisive?
    He is under pressure to resign tonight over the way he dealt with Carl Sargeant
    He won't resign....he is man enough to admit he got it wrong and publically apologise...which will be accepted by all but his bitterest enemies. He will probably come out of this stronger than when he went in...unfortunately

    It was not looking that way on the Welsh news tonight. The family, his constituents, and the opposition are all having a go at Carwyn Jones who has called a meeting with the Welsh Labour Group tomorrow after which he will make a statement. The reporter suggested he could resign
    It has been suggested that he was coming towards the end for a while. He has after all had eight years in office.

    My immediate thought however is that there is literally nobody capable of replacing him. It is not quite out of the question we could be heading for new elections in Wales.
    Stop! Tell the Welsh to hold of on anything until next week. We are overdosing on news and developments and I can't get the popcorn into my mouth any faster.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    ydoethur said:

    CD13 said:

    Never take politics seriously or you'll end up like Lenin - with a stroke at 54.

    Although some commentators believe being shot in the neck in 1918 didn't help.
    It rarely does.
    Danny565 said:

    I maintain what I said last night: I cannot understand why Patel is out of a job, while Boris is still in one.

    True, there was more intent (or at least, deliberate disregard for the rules) in Patel's actions than in Boris's gaffe, but ultimately, there haven't been victims from Patel's actions, whereas Boris has caused an innocent woman to be facing more unjust jail time.

    Has it actually led to an increase in jail time yet?

    Regardless, while that should get him sacked, the reason for anyone going or staying now are purely political, I cannot imagine many would dispute that - if someone won't go quietly and willingly, they won't be moved.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074

    Ishmael_Z said:

    alex. said:

    If May couldn’t sack her why did she resign?

    Because May told her she'd be sacked unless she resigned, I guess.

    There is an unpleasant whiff of tricoteuserie in the air. I hope I never have as humiliating a day as Patel has had today, and I don't see the fun in wishing it had been even worse. And May didn't get much praise for the size of her cojones for sacking Osborne, so it isn't clear what she is meant to do in these situations.
    Either Patel has crossed the line or she hasn't. If she has then you remove her physically from the job (get on a plane home) and then sack her. If she hasn't then leave her to complete the trip and rebuke her at your leisure.

    Instead what we have is Patel overstepping the line, being pulled back to the UK and then being given the opportunity to resign. You either sack someone or you don't. "We've found out about x you have to go" is fine. But not when the minister is abroad and you invite the bizarre circus of the voyage home - and then DON'T carry out the sacking.

    She's Frit.
    Or she allowed Patel to resign in return for Patel not telling journalists anything more about what No 10 did or did not know about the meetings.

    Too cynical?

  • Freggles said:

    Danny565 said:

    I maintain what I said last night: I cannot understand why Patel is out of a job, while Boris is still in one.

    True, there was more intent (or at least, deliberate disregard for the rules) in Patel's actions than in Boris's gaffe, but ultimately, there haven't been victims from Patel's actions, whereas Boris has caused an innocent woman to be facing more unjust jail time.

    Boris has more 'protective factors' in his favour than Priti. It's a political calculation
    and he may yet dig himself out of the hole.
  • ydoethur said:

    Penddu said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Mrs May is a disgrace, she should have fired Priti Patel.

    Stupid dumb Librarian.

    Drag someone half way around the world under a media storm to resign them? Daft. If you're sacking them have the cajones to sack them.
    It makes very little difference. The end result is the same.
    I think a difference in media portrayal.
    One is easily portrayed as decisive. The other seems duplicitous.
    Perhaps you think Carwyn Jones was decisive?
    He is under pressure to resign tonight over the way he dealt with Carl Sargeant
    He won't resign....he is man enough to admit he got it wrong and publically apologise...which will be accepted by all but his bitterest enemies. He will probably come out of this stronger than when he went in...unfortunately

    It was not looking that way on the Welsh news tonight. The family, his constituents, and the opposition are all having a go at Carwyn Jones who has called a meeting with the Welsh Labour Group tomorrow after which he will make a statement. The reporter suggested he could resign
    It has been suggested that he was coming towards the end for a while. He has after all had eight years in office.

    My immediate thought however is that there is literally nobody capable of replacing him. It is not quite out of the question we could be heading for new elections in Wales.
    The report tonight did say that the Welsh Labour Party had been actively undermining Carl Sargeant for some years so it seems there may be more to come out on this very sad situation.

    And yes new elections may well come along due to the make up of the Assembly
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    ydoethur said:

    Penddu said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Mrs May is a disgrace, she should have fired Priti Patel.

    Stupid dumb Librarian.

    Drag someone half way around the world under a media storm to resign them? Daft. If you're sacking them have the cajones to sack them.
    It makes very little difference. The end result is the same.
    I think a difference in media portrayal.
    One is easily portrayed as decisive. The other seems duplicitous.
    Perhaps you think Carwyn Jones was decisive?
    He is under pressure to resign tonight over the way he dealt with Carl Sargeant
    He won't resign....he is man enough to admit he got it wrong and publically apologise...which will be accepted by all but his bitterest enemies. He will probably come out of this stronger than when he went in...unfortunately

    It was not looking that way on the Welsh news tonight. The family, his constituents, and the opposition are all having a go at Carwyn Jones who has called a meeting with the Welsh Labour Group tomorrow after which he will make a statement. The reporter suggested he could resign
    It has been suggested that he was coming towards the end for a while. He has after all had eight years in office.

    My immediate thought however is that there is literally nobody capable of replacing him. It is not quite out of the question we could be heading for new elections in Wales.
    Jones looks like he’s in real trouble. Carl Sargeant’s family have released documents from the case. It appears that he never knew exactly what were the allegations against him.
    https://order-order.com/2017/11/08/pressure-carwyn-carl-sargeants-family-releases-emails/
  • That is not the reason she had to go - her visit to the Golan Heights was the serious error
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    Maybe it means May is still working out the details on a big reshuffle?

    One can dream....
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    edited November 2017
    So if we look at this we see a Times story from 1981 where the title is "Three Cabinet ministers sacked" and the text makes clear that each and every one of them in fact resigned (resignation letters here). In other words, the distinction between being asked to resign and doing so, and being sacked, is virtually non-existent.
  • nielhnielh Posts: 1,307
    'Resigning' her was in my opinion a smart move on the part of Theresa May. Little chance now of her becoming the Brexit martyr.

    Sadly, Priti Patel always struck me as a tool. Her career outside of politics was confined to stints in PR, frequently lobbying for alcohol and tobacco companies, and built upon upon her links with the conservative party.

    Given that she has very little experience of actual work, ie of the kind that ordinary people do to earn a living and not £300 per hour lobbying, and no academic credentials, it was quite surprising that she wrote a book peddling the idea that British workers are lazy.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/tackle-lazy-britain-fellow-tories-tell-david-cameron-8056787.html

    It is no suprise at all that she got too close too Israeli lobbyists, to the point where she ruined her ministerial career.

    Basically, I hold her in the same regard as Laura Pidcock. She is a windbag. A ranter. Someone who has no clue how to get us out of the mess we are in.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,088
    Cyclefree said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    alex. said:

    If May couldn’t sack her why did she resign?

    Because May told her she'd be sacked unless she resigned, I guess.

    There is an unpleasant whiff of tricoteuserie in the air. I hope I never have as humiliating a day as Patel has had today, and I don't see the fun in wishing it had been even worse. And May didn't get much praise for the size of her cojones for sacking Osborne, so it isn't clear what she is meant to do in these situations.
    Either Patel has crossed the line or she hasn't. If she has then you remove her physically from the job (get on a plane home) and then sack her. If she hasn't then leave her to complete the trip and rebuke her at your leisure.

    Instead what we have is Patel overstepping the line, being pulled back to the UK and then being given the opportunity to resign. You either sack someone or you don't. "We've found out about x you have to go" is fine. But not when the minister is abroad and you invite the bizarre circus of the voyage home - and then DON'T carry out the sacking.

    She's Frit.
    Or she allowed Patel to resign in return for Patel not telling journalists anything more about what No 10 did or did not know about the meetings.

    Too cynical?

    In an employment context an employer about to sack someone would always accept a resignation by way of response, because it reduces significantly (but doesn't eliminate) the claims the former employee might be able subsequently to make. Although this doesn't apply in this context, it's still the case that it looks better all round if there's a resignation, not least because the person is by resigning seen to take responsibility for the misdemeanour.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    midwinter said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    alex. said:

    If May couldn’t sack her why did she resign?

    Because May told her she'd be sacked unless she resigned, I guess.

    There is an unpleasant whiff of tricoteuserie in the air. I hope I never have as humiliating a day as Patel has had today, and I don't see the fun in wishing it had been even worse. And May didn't get much praise for the size of her cojones for sacking Osborne, so it isn't clear what she is meant to do in these situations.
    Pretty sure she got plenty of praise for sacking Osborne on here, albeit from the usual suspects. Just turned out it was pretty dumb to sack someone vastly more capable then herself in such an unpleasant manner. Predictably.

    Certainly the way it was reported and Osborn's generally low opinion combined for it to get more praise than criticism generally is my recollection. Many people on the interwebs did suggest doing it in the way she did was unwise, and that proved more true than most could have suspected. The circumstances were also considerably different, as Osborne hadn't done anything wrong to deserve such a strong slapdown - May would have happily said what a great job he had been doing for the preceding six years whenever she was asked publicly in those years - so it was clearly about setting direction for her own premiership and gain praise from his critics.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,761

    ydoethur said:

    Penddu said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Mrs May is a disgrace, she should have fired Priti Patel.

    Stupid dumb Librarian.

    Drag someone half way around the world under a media storm to resign them? Daft. If you're sacking them have the cajones to sack them.
    It makes very little difference. The end result is the same.
    I think a difference in media portrayal.
    One is easily portrayed as decisive. The other seems duplicitous.
    Perhaps you think Carwyn Jones was decisive?
    He is under pressure to resign tonight over the way he dealt with Carl Sargeant
    He won't resign....he is man enough to admit he got it wrong and publically apologise...which will be accepted by all but his bitterest enemies. He will probably come out of this stronger than when he went in...unfortunately

    It was not looking that way on the Welsh news tonight. The family, his constituents, and the opposition are all having a go at Carwyn Jones who has called a meeting with the Welsh Labour Group tomorrow after which he will make a statement. The reporter suggested he could resign
    It has been suggested that he was coming towards the end for a while. He has after all had eight years in office.

    My immediate thought however is that there is literally nobody capable of replacing him. It is not quite out of the question we could be heading for new elections in Wales.
    Stop! Tell the Welsh to hold of on anything until next week. We are overdosing on news and developments and I can't get the popcorn into my mouth any faster.
    There is a world shortage of popcorn as scandal after scandal engulfs the developed world.

    Suppliers of popcorn to the cinematic industry, Mr B N Grey, appealed for restraint and rationing to be introduced.

    'We simply can't keep up with demand,' he told a press conference. 'When Weinstein was caught it was all a bit funny, but now we're running double shifts and we still can't bang those grains nearly as fast as it turns out powerful sleazebags have been banging other things. If we don't have rationing, we might run out before the Episode VIII premier and I won't know where to put my face.'

    However, Jeremy Corbyn, about the only powerful man not implicated so far, said this was a bad idea. At least, he said something while spraying popcorn everywhere, pointing and laughing as Boris Johnson made another mindless clusterfuck live on TV.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,211
    ALL Ministers technically resign because it’s Her Majesty’s Government and it is unthinkable that the monarch would have to dismiss them (though if they refused to go that is what would happen).
  • jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,261
    RobD said:

    Maybe it means May is still working out the details on a big reshuffle?

    One can dream....
    I can see the reasoning behind not doing it until this Westminster scandal has died down. Fallon went over this, so could others so it might be best to see who is remaining after the dust has settled.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Ishmael_Z said:

    So if we look at this we see a Times story from 1981 where the title is "Three Cabinet ministers sacked" and the text makes clear that each and every one of them in fact resigned (resignation letters here). In other words, the distinction between being asked to resign and doing so, and being sacked, is virtually non-existent.

    Well, yes - for historical distinctions of what was officially reported at the time of the event it is important, but it's so common to find out someone was resigned, rather than chose to resign.
  • ydoethur said:

    Penddu said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Mrs May is a disgrace, she should have fired Priti Patel.

    Stupid dumb Librarian.

    Drag someone half way around the world under a media storm to resign them? Daft. If you're sacking them have the cajones to sack them.
    It makes very little difference. The end result is the same.
    I think a difference in media portrayal.
    One is easily portrayed as decisive. The other seems duplicitous.
    Perhaps you think Carwyn Jones was decisive?
    He is under pressure to resign tonight over the way he dealt with Carl Sargeant
    He won't resign....he is man enough to admit he got it wrong and publically apologise...which will be accepted by all but his bitterest enemies. He will probably come out of this stronger than when he went in...unfortunately

    It was not looking that way on the Welsh news tonight. The family, his constituents, and the opposition are all having a go at Carwyn Jones who has called a meeting with the Welsh Labour Group tomorrow after which he will make a statement. The reporter suggested he could resign
    It has been suggested that he was coming towards the end for a while. He has after all had eight years in office.

    My immediate thought however is that there is literally nobody capable of replacing him. It is not quite out of the question we could be heading for new elections in Wales.
    Stop! Tell the Welsh to hold of on anything until next week. We are overdosing on news and developments and I can't get the popcorn into my mouth any faster.
    And we missed David Prescott suspended from labour on sexual harrassment allegations, Vince Cable in all sorts of trouble with his female activists over a rape at last years conference and who have written a formal letter of complaint to him, and the two labour councils using tax havens
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    nielh said:

    'Resigning' her was in my opinion a smart move on the part of Theresa May. Little chance now of her becoming the Brexit martyr.

    Sadly, Priti Patel always struck me as a tool. Her career outside of politics was confined to stints in PR, frequently lobbying for alcohol and tobacco companies, and built upon upon her links with the conservative party.

    Given that she has very little experience of actual work, ie of the kind that ordinary people do to earn a living and not £300 per hour lobbying, and no academic credentials, it was quite surprising that she wrote a book peddling the idea that British workers are lazy.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/tackle-lazy-britain-fellow-tories-tell-david-cameron-8056787.html

    It is no suprise at all that she got too close too Israeli lobbyists, to the point where she ruined her ministerial career.

    Basically, I hold her in the same regard as Laura Pidcock. She is a windbag. A ranter. Someone who has no clue how to get us out of the mess we are in.

    Could we see some examples of "actual work, ie of the kind that ordinary people do to earn a living and not £300 per hour lobbying", please, so that we can understand your point better?
  • So, after all day where people have been demanding Patel leave the Government, people have now switched their attacks to how she left the Government, and why Boris is still there too.

    Ok.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Penddu said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Mrs May is a disgrace, she should have fired Priti Patel.

    Stupid dumb Librarian.

    Drag someone half way around the world under a media storm to resign them? Daft. If you're sacking them have the cajones to sack them.
    It makes very little difference. The end result is the same.
    I think a difference in media portrayal.
    One is easily portrayed as decisive. The other seems duplicitous.
    Perhaps you think Carwyn Jones was decisive?
    He is under pressure to resign tonight over the way he dealt with Carl Sargeant
    He won't resign....he is man enough to admit he got it wrong and publically apologise...which will be accepted by all but his bitterest enemies. He will probably come out of this stronger than when he went in...unfortunately

    It does seem odd that the twittermob is after Jones to resign without investigation as punishment for sacking without investigation.

    I would recommend a period of calm quiet reflection.
This discussion has been closed.