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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » New “media trust” polling finds the BBC top and the Sun bottom

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  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    kjh said:

    Alistair said:

    Its not been a good week for the reliability of anecdotes.

    Firstly we had 'all the European NHS and agricultural workers are leaving' demolished by imigrant employment at an all time high.

    Then we had the 'the shops are empty, its a High Street disater' dismantled by an increase in retail sales.

    But in the spirit of anecdotal bollox I'll add my own, namely that I was able to buy four punnets of raspberries today for only a pound. Where are all these cheap raspberries coming from in the middle of November ? I don't remember them being available this cheap or this late ever before.

    I've still got raspberries on my unprotected canes here in Edinburgh. I'm sure the Perth polytunnels are still producing.
    My Autumn raspberries are still going strong, although ripening slower. Now picking every few days instead of twice a day.
    I don't know what variety I have bit they are nuts, they start producing in August and keep going to November.

    That said the August fruit is pretty weak and it only gets proper tasty midway through September.
  • Jonathan said:

    Davis couldnt negotiate a discount at DFS

    That's quite funny but I would imagine that the DFS discount is given automatically.

    A bit like the Rebate in that way.

    Until Blair decided to give back half of it.
  • My thanks to all the raspberry experts - PB at its best.

    I've had a potential business idea for cereal farmers.

    Hand harvested grain for sale to artisan bakeries and craft brewers.

    Even better if its some type of 'heritage' grain.

    The blokes in beards would pay top whack to put it in their breads and beers.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    Jonathan said:

    Davis couldnt negotiate a discount at DFS

    That's quite funny but I would imagine that the DFS discount is given automatically.

    A bit like the Rebate in that way.

    Until Blair decided to give back half of it.
    There you go again. Bless.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @mkraju: Trump's decision not to push Moore out leaves GOP in a bind. Widespread belief on Hill he was the only one who could convince Moore to quit. Now, they're almost certainly stuck with Moore as their candidate.
  • Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Davis couldnt negotiate a discount at DFS

    That's quite funny but I would imagine that the DFS discount is given automatically.

    A bit like the Rebate in that way.

    Until Blair decided to give back half of it.
    There you go again. Bless.
    Touched a nerve I see.

    Just think, if we hadn't had that bit of Blair's renowned diplomacy Leave wouldn't have won.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771
    Alistair said:
    You know, I suspect the Judge will edge this. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if his tenure in the Senate was a short one.
  • Scott_P said:

    @mkraju: Trump's decision not to push Moore out leaves GOP in a bind. Widespread belief on Hill he was the only one who could convince Moore to quit. Now, they're almost certainly stuck with Moore as their candidate.

    I thought Trump had backed Moore's primary opponent and that Moore was the establishment candidate ?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,837
    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:
    You know, I suspect the Judge will edge this. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if his tenure in the Senate was a short one.
    Key words there are "if you HAD to say". Turnout and motivation will be key. And that makes it difficult to call.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400

    Sky suggesting 40 billion on offer which is way below the 100 billion originally requested

    Wasn't the original figure mooted around 60 billion, which was then elevated to around 100 billion? Which in pounds would work out around, what, 45-55 billion?

    I'm sure 40 is way too high for plenty, especially those set on 0, but the 100 billion seemed a sudden and arbitrary increase at the time so I'm sure people speculated it was to make a later figure accepted by us be presented as a win for both sides, as they got their amount, and we can say it was argued down.
  • kle4 said:

    Sky suggesting 40 billion on offer which is way below the 100 billion originally requested

    Wasn't the original figure mooted around 60 billion, which was then elevated to around 100 billion? Which in pounds would work out around, what, 45-55 billion?

    I'm sure 40 is way too high for plenty, especially those set on 0, but the 100 billion seemed a sudden and arbitrary increase at the time so I'm sure people speculated it was to make a later figure accepted by us be presented as a win for both sides, as they got their amount, and we can say it was argued down.
    Quite likely to be fair
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765
    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:
    You know, I suspect the Judge will edge this. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if his tenure in the Senate was a short one.
    I think Roy Moore must be the most appalling Senate candidate that the Republicans have chosen in my lifetime. Time and again, they throw away races that they're certain to win by selecting candidates so dreadful that even the most partisan electorates can't vote for them.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Wahey Question Time is on. I am sure tonight's debate will get to the heart of matter, clarify key points of debate and move the argument along in a constructive way
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400
    Jonathan said:

    Wahey Question Time is on. I am sure tonight's debate will get to the heart of matter, clarify key points of debate and move the argument along in a constructive way

    Hmm, no emojis used there, so clearly an entirely sincere statement.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    A review of the Bose SoundLink speaker on the John Lewis website. I am worried it may be a spoof; if genuine it is the best thing ever on the internet

    Location:Oxfordshire, UK
    The clarity of this speaker is absolutely wonderful. Second to none. My neighbour says that she can clearly hear every word of my Michael Bublé Christmas album through the thin wall that separates our semi-detached bungalows. Despite her complaints I refuse to lower the volume. It's such a shame that she doesn't share my love the The Mighty Bublé.
    Why just average quality? I accidentally dropped the speaker out of the window of my niece's Nissan Micra while travelling at approx 33mph and a large piece of the speaker broke off. Not what I'd expect from Bose. Thanks goodness for the circular design (it rolled for 50+ yards). If it had been square, I imagine the damage could have been much worse. However, the amazing sound quality has not been affected.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,837

    My thanks to all the raspberry experts - PB at its best.

    I've had a potential business idea for cereal farmers.

    Hand harvested grain for sale to artisan bakeries and craft brewers.

    Even better if its some type of 'heritage' grain.

    The blokes in beards would pay top whack to put it in their breads and beers.

    Read that as "to put it in their beards"....which tbf would surprise me not one jot.
  • Sean_F said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:
    You know, I suspect the Judge will edge this. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if his tenure in the Senate was a short one.
    I think Roy Moore must be the most appalling Senate candidate that the Republicans have chosen in my lifetime. Time and again, they throw away races that they're certain to win by selecting candidates so dreadful that even the most partisan electorates can't vote for them.
    Their House and Governor candidates seem rather more ordinary.

    Is there something which attracts the most awful types to the Senate ?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771
    Sean_F said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:
    You know, I suspect the Judge will edge this. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if his tenure in the Senate was a short one.
    I think Roy Moore must be the most appalling Senate candidate that the Republicans have chosen in my lifetime. Time and again, they throw away races that they're certain to win by selecting candidates so dreadful that even the most partisan electorates can't vote for them.
    Hard to disagree with that.
  • My thanks to all the raspberry experts - PB at its best.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nyE1DFNmfY
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Jonathan said:

    Wahey Question Time is on. I am sure tonight's debate will get to the heart of matter, clarify key points of debate and move the argument along in a constructive way

    Just switched over from #britishworkerswanted. Well worth catching...
  • Theresa May is poised to bow to the demands of the Brexit “mutineers” by dropping Britain’s EU exit date from legislation governing the UK’s withdrawal.

    David Lidington, the Justice Secretary, said “various constructive suggestions” had been made to the Prime Minister and that the Government “will listen” to calls for the exit date to be removed from the Bill.

    Another senior Cabinet minister told The Telegraph the Government was considering removing the controversial amendment after a series of tight votes earlier this week signalled Mrs May might lose if it was put to the vote.

    Dominic Grieve, the leader of the Tory rebels, said that as many as 27 Tory MPs were prepared to oppose Mrs May’s amendment which proposed to set a legal date and time for leaving the EU.

    The rebels were emboldened on Thursday by the news that EU member states have sought legal advice from the European Commission over a possible extension of the two-year negotiation period set out in Article 50.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/16/theresa-may-bows-mutineers-brexit-date/

    I think we all know what the EU27's next bit of legal advice is going to be.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400
    edited November 2017



    Dominic Grieve, the leader of the Tory rebels, said that as many as 27 Tory MPs were prepared to oppose Mrs May’s amendment which proposed to set a legal date and time for leaving the EU.

    Is 'Leader of the Tory rebels' an official title, an apt description, or just the editor not wanting to overuse the phrase 'senior backbencher'?

    More pressingly, I've just never been convinced of why the end date was a good idea - I get why it was to calm Hardline Brexiters, who are incredibly jittery it seems, but flexibility is generally a good thing.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921

    Jonathan said:

    Wahey Question Time is on. I am sure tonight's debate will get to the heart of matter, clarify key points of debate and move the argument along in a constructive way

    Just switched over from #britishworkerswanted. Well worth catching...
    My main takeaway from that programme was that people wanting temps for £7.50 are going to have to pay more...
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921

    Theresa May is poised to bow to the demands of the Brexit “mutineers” by dropping Britain’s EU exit date from legislation governing the UK’s withdrawal.

    David Lidington, the Justice Secretary, said “various constructive suggestions” had been made to the Prime Minister and that the Government “will listen” to calls for the exit date to be removed from the Bill.

    Another senior Cabinet minister told The Telegraph the Government was considering removing the controversial amendment after a series of tight votes earlier this week signalled Mrs May might lose if it was put to the vote.

    Dominic Grieve, the leader of the Tory rebels, said that as many as 27 Tory MPs were prepared to oppose Mrs May’s amendment which proposed to set a legal date and time for leaving the EU.

    The rebels were emboldened on Thursday by the news that EU member states have sought legal advice from the European Commission over a possible extension of the two-year negotiation period set out in Article 50.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/16/theresa-may-bows-mutineers-brexit-date/

    I think we all know what the EU27's next bit of legal advice is going to be.

    So adding a date for it to be the only concession to the Remainers sounds like smart Parliamentary politics to me.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Mortimer said:

    Jonathan said:

    Wahey Question Time is on. I am sure tonight's debate will get to the heart of matter, clarify key points of debate and move the argument along in a constructive way

    Just switched over from #britishworkerswanted. Well worth catching...
    My main takeaway from that programme was that people wanting temps for £7.50 are going to have to pay more...
    The only one in that office who was competent was Oksana.
  • kle4 said:



    Dominic Grieve, the leader of the Tory rebels, said that as many as 27 Tory MPs were prepared to oppose Mrs May’s amendment which proposed to set a legal date and time for leaving the EU.

    Is 'Leader of the Tory rebels' an official title, an apt description, or just the editor not wanting to overuse the phrase 'senior backbencher'?

    More pressingly, I've just never been convinced of why the end date was a good idea - I get why it was to calm Hardline Brexiters, who are incredibly jittery it seems, but flexibility is generally a good thing.
    An official title, a bit like our Prime Minister's official title is 'First Lord of The Treasury'
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400
    edited November 2017
    Mortimer said:

    Theresa May is poised to bow to the demands of the Brexit “mutineers” by dropping Britain’s EU exit date from legislation governing the UK’s withdrawal.

    David Lidington, the Justice Secretary, said “various constructive suggestions” had been made to the Prime Minister and that the Government “will listen” to calls for the exit date to be removed from the Bill.

    Another senior Cabinet minister told The Telegraph the Government was considering removing the controversial amendment after a series of tight votes earlier this week signalled Mrs May might lose if it was put to the vote.

    Dominic Grieve, the leader of the Tory rebels, said that as many as 27 Tory MPs were prepared to oppose Mrs May’s amendment which proposed to set a legal date and time for leaving the EU.

    The rebels were emboldened on Thursday by the news that EU member states have sought legal advice from the European Commission over a possible extension of the two-year negotiation period set out in Article 50.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/16/theresa-may-bows-mutineers-brexit-date/

    I think we all know what the EU27's next bit of legal advice is going to be.

    So adding a date for it to be the only concession to the Remainers sounds like smart Parliamentary politics to me.
    Depends if the rebels move on to another amendment to focus on, and how many they can muster for that.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921
    kle4 said:

    Mortimer said:

    Theresa May is poised to bow to the demands of the Brexit “mutineers” by dropping Britain’s EU exit date from legislation governing the UK’s withdrawal.

    David Lidington, the Justice Secretary, said “various constructive suggestions” had been made to the Prime Minister and that the Government “will listen” to calls for the exit date to be removed from the Bill.

    Another senior Cabinet minister told The Telegraph the Government was considering removing the controversial amendment after a series of tight votes earlier this week signalled Mrs May might lose if it was put to the vote.

    Dominic Grieve, the leader of the Tory rebels, said that as many as 27 Tory MPs were prepared to oppose Mrs May’s amendment which proposed to set a legal date and time for leaving the EU.

    The rebels were emboldened on Thursday by the news that EU member states have sought legal advice from the European Commission over a possible extension of the two-year negotiation period set out in Article 50.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/16/theresa-may-bows-mutineers-brexit-date/

    I think we all know what the EU27's next bit of legal advice is going to be.

    So adding a date for it to be the only concession to the Remainers sounds like smart Parliamentary politics to me.
    Depends if the rebels move on to another amendment to focus on, and how many they can must for that.
    Seems like it has drawn much of the sting...
  • rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:
    You know, I suspect the Judge will edge this. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if his tenure in the Senate was a short one.
    I think Roy Moore must be the most appalling Senate candidate that the Republicans have chosen in my lifetime. Time and again, they throw away races that they're certain to win by selecting candidates so dreadful that even the most partisan electorates can't vote for them.
    Hard to disagree with that.
    https://twitter.com/pollreport/status/931298840711372800
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,695
    edited November 2017

    Sky suggesting 40 billion on offer which is way below the 100 billion originally requested

    Give the useless Theresa May time and she'll probably be offering up 200bn by Christmas.

    #wasteofspace
  • kle4 said:

    Mortimer said:

    Theresa May is poised to bow to the demands of the Brexit “mutineers” by dropping Britain’s EU exit date from legislation governing the UK’s withdrawal.

    David Lidington, the Justice Secretary, said “various constructive suggestions” had been made to the Prime Minister and that the Government “will listen” to calls for the exit date to be removed from the Bill.

    Another senior Cabinet minister told The Telegraph the Government was considering removing the controversial amendment after a series of tight votes earlier this week signalled Mrs May might lose if it was put to the vote.

    Dominic Grieve, the leader of the Tory rebels, said that as many as 27 Tory MPs were prepared to oppose Mrs May’s amendment which proposed to set a legal date and time for leaving the EU.

    The rebels were emboldened on Thursday by the news that EU member states have sought legal advice from the European Commission over a possible extension of the two-year negotiation period set out in Article 50.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/16/theresa-may-bows-mutineers-brexit-date/

    I think we all know what the EU27's next bit of legal advice is going to be.

    So adding a date for it to be the only concession to the Remainers sounds like smart Parliamentary politics to me.
    Depends if the rebels move on to another amendment to focus on, and how many they can muster for that.
    The biggie is a meaningful vote on the final deal.

    I don't think Mrs May has the votes or anywhere close to stop that.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,695

    Theresa May is poised to bow to the demands of the Brexit “mutineers” by dropping Britain’s EU exit date from legislation governing the UK’s withdrawal.

    David Lidington, the Justice Secretary, said “various constructive suggestions” had been made to the Prime Minister and that the Government “will listen” to calls for the exit date to be removed from the Bill.

    Another senior Cabinet minister told The Telegraph the Government was considering removing the controversial amendment after a series of tight votes earlier this week signalled Mrs May might lose if it was put to the vote.

    Dominic Grieve, the leader of the Tory rebels, said that as many as 27 Tory MPs were prepared to oppose Mrs May’s amendment which proposed to set a legal date and time for leaving the EU.

    The rebels were emboldened on Thursday by the news that EU member states have sought legal advice from the European Commission over a possible extension of the two-year negotiation period set out in Article 50.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/16/theresa-may-bows-mutineers-brexit-date/

    I think we all know what the EU27's next bit of legal advice is going to be.

    Tory MP's still trying to thwart the will of the British people... :(
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400

    kle4 said:

    Mortimer said:

    Theresa May is poised to bow to the demands of the Brexit “mutineers” by dropping Britain’s EU exit date from legislation governing the UK’s withdrawal.

    David Lidington, the Justice Secretary, said “various constructive suggestions” had been made to the Prime Minister and that the Government “will listen” to calls for the exit date to be removed from the Bill.

    Another senior Cabinet minister told The Telegraph the Government was considering removing the controversial amendment after a series of tight votes earlier this week signalled Mrs May might lose if it was put to the vote.

    Dominic Grieve, the leader of the Tory rebels, said that as many as 27 Tory MPs were prepared to oppose Mrs May’s amendment which proposed to set a legal date and time for leaving the EU.

    The rebels were emboldened on Thursday by the news that EU member states have sought legal advice from the European Commission over a possible extension of the two-year negotiation period set out in Article 50.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/16/theresa-may-bows-mutineers-brexit-date/

    I think we all know what the EU27's next bit of legal advice is going to be.

    So adding a date for it to be the only concession to the Remainers sounds like smart Parliamentary politics to me.
    Depends if the rebels move on to another amendment to focus on, and how many they can muster for that.
    The biggie is a meaningful vote on the final deal.

    I don't think Mrs May has the votes or anywhere close to stop that.
    I've not been following every twist and turn of this - I thought I'd seen a headline that that had already been conceded, or does it hinge on how 'meaningful' is defined?
  • GIN1138 said:

    Sky suggesting 40 billion on offer which is way below the 100 billion originally requested

    Give the useless Theresa May time and she'll probably be offering up 200bn by Christmas.

    #wasteofspace
    David Davis is an even bigger waste of space.

    I wouldn't be surprised if in his final deal he signs the UK up to Schengen and the single currency.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Never heard of a coup before where the person being overthrown is allowed to decide whether or not to resign.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    GIN1138 said:

    Sky suggesting 40 billion on offer which is way below the 100 billion originally requested

    Give the useless Theresa May time and she'll probably be offering up 200bn by Christmas.

    #wasteofspace
    David Davis is an even bigger waste of space.

    I wouldn't be surprised if in his final deal he signs the UK up to Schengen and the single currency.
    That’d be quite careless!
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    GIN1138 said:

    Tory MP's still trying to thwart the will of the British people...

    Parliamentary Sovereignty is the will of the British people. Right?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    Scott_P said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Tory MP's still trying to thwart the will of the British people...

    Parliamentary Sovereignty is the will of the British people. Right?
    Na, they could approve of something that the majority of people were against.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,695
    Scott_P said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Tory MP's still trying to thwart the will of the British people...

    Parliamentary Sovereignty is the will of the British people. Right?
    Once the will of the British People has been implemented (ie we leave) then yes.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921

    kle4 said:

    Mortimer said:

    Theresa May is poised to bow to the demands of the Brexit “mutineers” by dropping Britain’s EU exit date from legislation governing the UK’s withdrawal.

    David Lidington, the Justice Secretary, said “various constructive suggestions” had been made to the Prime Minister and that the Government “will listen” to calls for the exit date to be removed from the Bill.

    Another senior Cabinet minister told The Telegraph the Government was considering removing the controversial amendment after a series of tight votes earlier this week signalled Mrs May might lose if it was put to the vote.

    Dominic Grieve, the leader of the Tory rebels, said that as many as 27 Tory MPs were prepared to oppose Mrs May’s amendment which proposed to set a legal date and time for leaving the EU.

    The rebels were emboldened on Thursday by the news that EU member states have sought legal advice from the European Commission over a possible extension of the two-year negotiation period set out in Article 50.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/16/theresa-may-bows-mutineers-brexit-date/

    I think we all know what the EU27's next bit of legal advice is going to be.

    So adding a date for it to be the only concession to the Remainers sounds like smart Parliamentary politics to me.
    Depends if the rebels move on to another amendment to focus on, and how many they can muster for that.
    The biggie is a meaningful vote on the final deal.

    I don't think Mrs May has the votes or anywhere close to stop that.
    What about the moon on a stick amendment?

    Frankly, there will be a vote on the deal. The alternative won't be to stay in. That would undermine democracy. It will be a meaningful vote between accepting the deal and not accepting the dea and reverting to WTO.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    AndyJS said:

    Never heard of a coup before where the person being overthrown is allowed to decide whether or not to resign.

    The options available may be resign or be forced to resign.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @ZoraSuleman: 210,000 gallons of oil have leaked from the Keystone Pipeline in South Dakota,

    @FrankUnderwocd: There is literally a tweet for everything. https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/662717972981551104
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969
    edited November 2017
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Mortimer said:

    Theresa May is poised to bow to the demands of the Brexit “mutineers” by dropping Britain’s EU exit date from legislation governing the UK’s withdrawal.

    David Lidington, the Justice Secretary, said “various constructive suggestions” had been made to the Prime Minister and that the Government “will listen” to calls for the exit date to be removed from the Bill.

    Another senior Cabinet minister told The Telegraph the Government was considering removing the controversial amendment after a series of tight votes earlier this week signalled Mrs May might lose if it was put to the vote.

    Dominic Grieve, the leader of the Tory rebels, said that as many as 27 Tory MPs were prepared to oppose Mrs May’s amendment which proposed to set a legal date and time for leaving the EU.

    The rebels were emboldened on Thursday by the news that EU member states have sought legal advice from the European Commission over a possible extension of the two-year negotiation period set out in Article 50.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/16/theresa-may-bows-mutineers-brexit-date/

    I think we all know what the EU27's next bit of legal advice is going to be.

    So adding a date for it to be the only concession to the Remainers sounds like smart Parliamentary politics to me.
    Depends if the rebels move on to another amendment to focus on, and how many they can muster for that.
    The biggie is a meaningful vote on the final deal.

    I don't think Mrs May has the votes or anywhere close to stop that.
    I've not been following every twist and turn of this - I thought I'd seen a headline that that had already been conceded, or does it hinge on how 'meaningful' is defined?
    Yup.

    A vote at 10.45pm on March 29th 2019 won't be meaningful.

    The big known unknown is what happens if major companies start making noises about what WTO Brexit means in H1 2018.

    I also think a flash point will be when the ECJ fundamentalists get upset if the ECJ is still involved, such as Euroatom.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    GIN1138 said:

    Once the will of the British People has been implemented (ie we leave) then yes.

    "What do we want?"

    Sovereignty

    "When do we want it?"

    Not yet...
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,695
    AndyJS said:

    Never heard of a coup before where the person being overthrown is allowed to decide whether or not to resign.

    What's going on in Zimbabwe is very odd...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    Scott_P said:

    @ZoraSuleman: 210,000 gallons of oil have leaked from the Keystone Pipeline in South Dakota,

    @FrankUnderwocd: There is literally a tweet for everything. https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/662717972981551104

    Depends, is it riskier than a tanker? A long way to go to match the Valdez.
  • Mortimer said:

    kle4 said:

    Mortimer said:

    Theresa May is poised to bow to the demands of the Brexit “mutineers” by dropping Britain’s EU exit date from legislation governing the UK’s withdrawal.

    David Lidington, the Justice Secretary, said “various constructive suggestions” had been made to the Prime Minister and that the Government “will listen” to calls for the exit date to be removed from the Bill.

    Another senior Cabinet minister told The Telegraph the Government was considering removing the controversial amendment after a series of tight votes earlier this week signalled Mrs May might lose if it was put to the vote.

    Dominic Grieve, the leader of the Tory rebels, said that as many as 27 Tory MPs were prepared to oppose Mrs May’s amendment which proposed to set a legal date and time for leaving the EU.

    The rebels were emboldened on Thursday by the news that EU member states have sought legal advice from the European Commission over a possible extension of the two-year negotiation period set out in Article 50.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/16/theresa-may-bows-mutineers-brexit-date/

    I think we all know what the EU27's next bit of legal advice is going to be.

    So adding a date for it to be the only concession to the Remainers sounds like smart Parliamentary politics to me.
    Depends if the rebels move on to another amendment to focus on, and how many they can muster for that.
    The biggie is a meaningful vote on the final deal.

    I don't think Mrs May has the votes or anywhere close to stop that.
    What about the moon on a stick amendment?

    Frankly, there will be a vote on the deal. The alternative won't be to stay in. That would undermine democracy. It will be a meaningful vote between accepting the deal and not accepting the dea and reverting to WTO.

    Alternative will be a vote to extend the negotiations beyond March 29th 2017.

    That's why I highlighted the bit in bold.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    RobD said:

    Depends, is it riskier than a tanker? A long way to go to match the Valdez.

    And South Dakota is not the ocean
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400
    AndyJS said:

    Never heard of a coup before where the person being overthrown is allowed to decide whether or not to resign.

    Coups come in a variety of flavours I suppose.

    Interesting list of 'coups and coup attempts' on wikipedia, it's a bit weird. The Gambian crisis last year is referred to as a coup by 'government of gambia' against the President, which is an odd way of putting it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_coups_d'état_and_coup_attempts_since_2010

    Another page on coup d'etats says 'a 2016 study shows that implementation of succession rules reduce coup attempts'. I guess Mugabe didn't read it.

    Not as many governments led by coup leaders as you'd think, according to wiki, an even 12.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    On concluding a deal, Davis will resign his seat in protest seeking a mandate to oppose himself
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771
    Scott_P said:

    @ZoraSuleman: 210,000 gallons of oil have leaked from the Keystone Pipeline in South Dakota,

    @FrankUnderwocd: There is literally a tweet for everything. https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/662717972981551104

    Fortunately, the oil from the tar sends is very, very heavy and oozes out the pipeline incredibly slowly.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,695
    edited November 2017

    Mortimer said:

    kle4 said:

    Mortimer said:

    Theresa May is poised to bow to the demands of the Brexit “mutineers” by dropping Britain’s EU exit date from legislation governing the UK’s withdrawal.

    David Lidington, the Justice Secretary, said “various constructive suggestions” had been made to the Prime Minister and that the Government “will listen” to calls for the exit date to be removed from the Bill.

    Another senior Cabinet minister told The Telegraph the Government was considering removing the controversial amendment after a series of tight votes earlier this week signalled Mrs May might lose if it was put to the vote.

    Dominic Grieve, the leader of the Tory rebels, said that as many as 27 Tory MPs were prepared to oppose Mrs May’s amendment which proposed to set a legal date and time for leaving the EU.

    The rebels were emboldened on Thursday by the news that EU member states have sought legal advice from the European Commission over a possible extension of the two-year negotiation period set out in Article 50.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/16/theresa-may-bows-mutineers-brexit-date/

    I think we all know what the EU27's next bit of legal advice is going to be.

    So adding a date for it to be the only concession to the Remainers sounds like smart Parliamentary politics to me.
    Depends if the rebels move on to another amendment to focus on, and how many they can muster for that.
    The biggie is a meaningful vote on the final deal.

    I don't think Mrs May has the votes or anywhere close to stop that.
    What about the moon on a stick amendment?

    Frankly, there will be a vote on the deal. The alternative won't be to stay in. That would undermine democracy. It will be a meaningful vote between accepting the deal and not accepting the dea and reverting to WTO.

    Alternative will be a vote to extend the negotiations beyond March 29th 2019.

    That's why I highlighted the bit in bold.
    March 2019? Why on Earth would HMG want to "extend" negotiations beyond March 2019?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    Scott_P said:

    RobD said:

    Depends, is it riskier than a tanker? A long way to go to match the Valdez.

    And South Dakota is not the ocean
    Let’s see which was the biggest ecological disaster.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771
    GIN1138 said:

    Mortimer said:

    kle4 said:

    Mortimer said:

    Theresa May is poised to bow to the demands of the Brexit “mutineers” by dropping Britain’s EU exit date from legislation governing the UK’s withdrawal.

    David Lidington, the Justice Secretary, said “various constructive suggestions” had been made to the Prime Minister and that the Government “will listen” to calls for the exit date to be removed from the Bill.

    Another senior Cabinet minister told The Telegraph the Government was considering removing the controversial amendment after a series of tight votes earlier this week signalled Mrs May might lose if it was put to the vote.

    Dominic Grieve, the leader of the Tory rebels, said that as many as 27 Tory MPs were prepared to oppose Mrs May’s amendment which proposed to set a legal date and time for leaving the EU.

    The rebels were emboldened on Thursday by the news that EU member states have sought legal advice from the European Commission over a possible extension of the two-year negotiation period set out in Article 50.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/16/theresa-may-bows-mutineers-brexit-date/

    I think we all know what the EU27's next bit of legal advice is going to be.

    So adding a date for it to be the only concession to the Remainers sounds like smart Parliamentary politics to me.
    Depends if the rebels move on to another amendment to focus on, and how many they can muster for that.
    The biggie is a meaningful vote on the final deal.

    I don't think Mrs May has the votes or anywhere close to stop that.
    What about the moon on a stick amendment?

    Frankly, there will be a vote on the deal. The alternative won't be to stay in. That would undermine democracy. It will be a meaningful vote between accepting the deal and not accepting the dea and reverting to WTO.

    Alternative will be a vote to extend the negotiations beyond March 29th 2017.

    That's why I highlighted the bit in bold.
    March 2019? Why on Earth would HMG want to "extend" negotiations beyond March 2019?
    If negotiations are going well, and they want to get the ultimate destination agreed before the transition kicks off, I could easily see a three month extension to get loose ends tied up.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400
    edited November 2017
    RobD said:

    Scott_P said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Tory MP's still trying to thwart the will of the British people...

    Parliamentary Sovereignty is the will of the British people. Right?
    Na, they could approve of something that the majority of people were against.
    Indeed so. And it might even be a good thing, in the end and depending on the issue (that's why the parliament is sovereign), but they'd have to endure or overcome any political consequences for that.
  • GIN1138 said:

    March 2019? Why on Earth would HMG want to "extend" negotiations beyond March 2019?

    Because do you want Brexit good, or do you want it quick?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Mortimer said:

    kle4 said:

    Mortimer said:

    Theresa May is poised to bow to the demands of the Brexit “mutineers” by dropping Britain’s EU exit date from legislation governing the UK’s withdrawal.

    David Lidington, the Justice Secretary, said “various constructive suggestions” had been made to the Prime Minister and that the Government “will listen” to calls for the exit date to be removed from the Bill.

    Another senior Cabinet minister told The Telegraph the Government was considering removing the controversial amendment after a series of tight votes earlier this week signalled Mrs May might lose if it was put to the vote.

    Dominic Grieve, the leader of the Tory rebels, said that as many as 27 Tory MPs were prepared to oppose Mrs May’s amendment which proposed to set a legal date and time for leaving the EU.

    The rebels were emboldened on Thursday by the news that EU member states have sought legal advice from the European Commission over a possible extension of the two-year negotiation period set out in Article 50.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/16/theresa-may-bows-mutineers-brexit-date/

    I think we all know what the EU27's next bit of legal advice is going to be.

    So adding a date for it to be the only concession to the Remainers sounds like smart Parliamentary politics to me.
    Depends if the rebels move on to another amendment to focus on, and how many they can muster for that.
    The biggie is a meaningful vote on the final deal.

    I don't think Mrs May has the votes or anywhere close to stop that.
    What about the moon on a stick amendment?

    Frankly, there will be a vote on the deal. The alternative won't be to stay in. That would undermine democracy. It will be a meaningful vote between accepting the deal and not accepting the dea and reverting to WTO.

    Alternative will be a vote to extend the negotiations beyond March 29th 2017.

    That's why I highlighted the bit in bold.
    March 2019? Why on Earth would HMG want to "extend" negotiations beyond March 2019?
    If negotiations are going well, and they want to get the ultimate destination agreed before the transition kicks off, I could easily see a three month extension to get loose ends tied up.
    Extra time. Let's hope it doesn't go to penalties.
  • Mortimer said:

    kle4 said:

    Mortimer said:

    Theresa May is poised to bow to the demands of the Brexit “mutineers” by dropping Britain’s EU exit date from legislation governing the UK’s withdrawal.

    David Lidington, the Justice Secretary, said “various constructive suggestions” had been made to the Prime Minister and that the Government “will listen” to calls for the exit date to be removed from the Bill.

    Another senior Cabinet minister told The Telegraph the Government was considering removing the controversial amendment after a series of tight votes earlier this week signalled Mrs May might lose if it was put to the vote.

    Dominic Grieve, the leader of the Tory rebels, said that as many as 27 Tory MPs were prepared to oppose Mrs May’s amendment which proposed to set a legal date and time for leaving the EU.

    The rebels were emboldened on Thursday by the news that EU member states have sought legal advice from the European Commission over a possible extension of the two-year negotiation period set out in Article 50.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/16/theresa-may-bows-mutineers-brexit-date/

    I think we all know what the EU27's next bit of legal advice is going to be.

    So adding a date for it to be the only concession to the Remainers sounds like smart Parliamentary politics to me.
    Depends if the rebels move on to another amendment to focus on, and how many they can muster for that.
    The biggie is a meaningful vote on the final deal.

    I don't think Mrs May has the votes or anywhere close to stop that.
    What about the moon on a stick amendment?

    Frankly, there will be a vote on the deal. The alternative won't be to stay in. That would undermine democracy. It will be a meaningful vote between accepting the deal and not accepting the dea and reverting to WTO.

    Alternative will be a vote to extend the negotiations beyond March 29th 2017.

    That's why I highlighted the bit in bold.
    Think you may need to look at your date
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    GIN1138 said:

    March 2019? Why on Earth would HMG want to "extend" negotiations beyond March 2019?

    Because do you want Brexit good, or do you want it quick?
    What suits Mr Putin best?
  • RobD said:

    Scott_P said:

    @ZoraSuleman: 210,000 gallons of oil have leaked from the Keystone Pipeline in South Dakota,

    @FrankUnderwocd: There is literally a tweet for everything. https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/662717972981551104

    Depends, is it riskier than a tanker? A long way to go to match the Valdez.
    They seem to be surprisingly common:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oil_spills

    And there will be many more in China and Russia which we don't know about.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400
    Jonathan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Mortimer said:

    kle4 said:

    Mortimer said:

    Theresa May is poised to bow to the demands of the Brexit “mutineers” by dropping Britain’s EU exit date from legislation governing the UK’s withdrawal.

    David Lidington, the Justice Secretary, said “various constructive suggestions” had been made to the Prime Minister and that the Government “will listen” to calls for the exit date to be removed from the Bill.

    Another senior Cabinet minister told The Telegraph the Government was considering removing the controversial amendment after a series of tight votes earlier this week signalled Mrs May might lose if it was put to the vote.

    Dominic Grieve, the leader of the Tory rebels, said that as many as 27 Tory MPs were prepared to oppose Mrs May’s amendment which proposed to set a legal date and time for leaving the EU.

    The rebels were emboldened on Thursday by the news that EU member states have sought legal advice from the European Commission over a possible extension of the two-year negotiation period set out in Article 50.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/16/theresa-may-bows-mutineers-brexit-date/

    I think we all know what the EU27's next bit of legal advice is going to be.

    So adding a date for it to be the only concession to the Remainers sounds like smart Parliamentary politics to me.
    Depends if the rebels move on to another amendment to focus on, and how many they can muster for that.
    The biggie is a meaningful vote on the final deal.

    I don't think Mrs May has the votes or anywhere close to stop that.
    What about the moon on a stick amendment?

    Frankly, there will be a vote on the deal. The alternative won't be to stay in. That would undermine democracy. It will be a meaningful vote between accepting the deal and not accepting the dea and reverting to WTO.

    Alternative will be a vote to extend the negotiations beyond March 29th 2017.

    That's why I highlighted the bit in bold.
    March 2019? Why on Earth would HMG want to "extend" negotiations beyond March 2019?
    If negotiations are going well, and they want to get the ultimate destination agreed before the transition kicks off, I could easily see a three month extension to get loose ends tied up.
    Extra time. Let's hope it doesn't go to penalties.
    Could be worse - could be Rugby sudden death rules, with a kicking competition, which is certainly harder than a penalty shootout. Not sure if it has ever actually happened though.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Jonathan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Mortimer said:

    kle4 said:

    Mortimer said:

    Theresa May is poised to bow to the demands of the Brexit “mutineers” by dropping Britain’s EU exit date from legislation governing the UK’s withdrawal.

    David Lidington, the Justice Secretary, said “various constructive suggestions” had been made to the Prime Minister and that the Government “will listen” to calls for the exit date to be removed from the Bill.

    Another senior Cabinet minister told The Telegraph the Government was considering removing the controversial amendment after a series of tight votes earlier this week signalled Mrs May might lose if it was put to the vote.

    Dominic Grieve, the leader of the Tory rebels, said that as many as 27 Tory MPs were prepared to oppose Mrs May’s amendment which proposed to set a legal date and time for leaving the EU.

    The rebels were emboldened on Thursday by the news that EU member states have sought legal advice from the European Commission over a possible extension of the two-year negotiation period set out in Article 50.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/16/theresa-may-bows-mutineers-brexit-date/

    I think we all know what the EU27's next bit of legal advice is going to be.

    So adding a date for it to be the only concession to the Remainers sounds like smart Parliamentary politics to me.
    Depends if the rebels move on to another amendment to focus on, and how many they can muster for that.
    The biggie is a meaningful vote on the final deal.

    I don't think Mrs May has the votes or anywhere close to stop that.
    What about the moon on a stick amendment?

    Frankly, there will be a vote on the deal. The alternative won't be to stay in. That would undermine democracy. It will be a meaningful vote between accepting the deal and not accepting the dea and reverting to WTO.

    Alternative will be a vote to extend the negotiations beyond March 29th 2017.

    That's why I highlighted the bit in bold.
    March 2019? Why on Earth would HMG want to "extend" negotiations beyond March 2019?
    If negotiations are going well, and they want to get the ultimate destination agreed before the transition kicks off, I could easily see a three month extension to get loose ends tied up.
    Extra time. Let's hope it doesn't go to penalties.
    We always lose to the Germans on penalties.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,083
    edited November 2017
    AndyJS said:

    Never heard of a coup before where the person being overthrown is allowed to decide whether or not to resign.

    It should be an offer he cannot refuse.

    What is concerning are the reports that people are preparing to celebrate, once they know he is indeed going, when the guy behind all this appears to be as nasty a piece of work as was/is Mugabe.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Mortimer said:

    kle4 said:

    Mortimer said:

    Theresa May is poised to bow to the demands of the Brexit “mutineers” by dropping Britain’s EU exit date from legislation governing the UK’s withdrawal.

    David Lidington, the Justice Secretary, said “various constructive suggestions” had been made to the Prime Minister and that the Government “will listen” to calls for the exit date to be removed from the Bill.

    Another senior Cabinet minister told The Telegraph the Government was considering removing the controversial amendment after a series of tight votes earlier this week signalled Mrs May might lose if it was put to the vote.

    Dominic Grieve, the leader of the Tory rebels, said that as many as 27 Tory MPs were prepared to oppose Mrs May’s amendment which proposed to set a legal date and time for leaving the EU.

    The rebels were emboldened on Thursday by the news that EU member states have sought legal advice from the European Commission over a possible extension of the two-year negotiation period set out in Article 50.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/16/theresa-may-bows-mutineers-brexit-date/

    I think we all know what the EU27's next bit of legal advice is going to be.

    So adding a date for it to be the only concession to the Remainers sounds like smart Parliamentary politics to me.
    Depends if the rebels move on to another amendment to focus on, and how many they can muster for that.
    The biggie is a meaningful vote on the final deal.

    I don't think Mrs May has the votes or anywhere close to stop that.
    What about the moon on a stick amendment?

    Frankly, there wig the deal and not accepting the dea and reverting to WTO.

    Alternative will be a vote to extend the negotiations beyond March 29th 2017.

    That's why I highlighted the bit in bold.
    March 2019? Why on Earth would HMG want to "extend" negotiations beyond March 2019?
    If negotiations are going well, and they want to get the ultimate destination agreed before the transition kicks off, I could easily see a three month extension to get loose ends tied up.
    Extra time. Let's hope it doesn't go to penalties.
    Could be worse - could be Rugby sudden death rules, with a kicking competition, which is certainly harder than a penalty shootout. Not sure if it has ever actually happened though.
    If Theresa May took a penalty she would manage an own goal.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400
    Looking at other aging dictators, many are still only in their 70s, so can presumably last for quite some time before (if) they lose their grip like Mugabe.
  • kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Mortimer said:

    kle4 said:

    Mortimer said:


    So adding a date for it to be the only concession to the Remainers sounds like smart Parliamentary politics to me.

    Depends if the rebels move on to another amendment to focus on, and how many they can muster for that.
    The biggie is a meaningful vote on the final deal.

    I don't think Mrs May has the votes or anywhere close to stop that.
    What about the moon on a stick amendment?

    Frankly, there will be a vote on the deal. The alternative won't be to stay in. That would undermine democracy. It will be a meaningful vote between accepting the deal and not accepting the dea and reverting to WTO.

    Alternative will be a vote to extend the negotiations beyond March 29th 2017.

    That's why I highlighted the bit in bold.
    March 2019? Why on Earth would HMG want to "extend" negotiations beyond March 2019?
    If negotiations are going well, and they want to get the ultimate destination agreed before the transition kicks off, I could easily see a three month extension to get loose ends tied up.
    Extra time. Let's hope it doesn't go to penalties.
    Could be worse - could be Rugby sudden death rules, with a kicking competition, which is certainly harder than a penalty shootout. Not sure if it has ever actually happened though.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiff_Blues_vs_Leicester_Tigers_(2008–09_Heineken_Cup)
  • Jonathan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Mortimer said:

    kle4 said:

    Mortimer said:

    Theresa May is poised to bow to the demands of the Brexit “mutineers” by dropping Britain’s EU exit date from legislation governing the UK’s

    Dominic Grieve, the leader of the Tory rebels, said that as many as 27 Tory MPs were prepared to oppose Mrs May’s amendment which proposed to set a legal date and time for leaving the EU.

    The rebels were emboldened on Thursday by the news that EU member states have sought legal advice from the European Commission over a possible extension of the two-year negotiation period set out in Article 50.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/16/theresa-may-bows-mutineers-brexit-date/

    I think we all know what the EU27's next bit of legal advice is going to be.

    So adding a date for it to be the only concession to the Remainers sounds like smart Parliamentary politics to me.
    Depends if the rebels move on to another amendment to focus on, and how many they can muster for that.
    The biggie is a meaningful vote on the final deal.

    I don't think Mrs May has the votes or anywhere close to stop that.
    What about the moon on a stick amendment?

    Frankly, there will be a vote on the deal. The alternative won't be to stay in. That would undermine democracy. It will be a meaningful vote between accepting the deal and not accepting the dea and reverting to WTO.

    Alternative will be a vote to extend the negotiations beyond March 29th 2017.

    That's why I highlighted the bit in bold.
    March 2019? Why on Earth would HMG want to "extend" negotiations beyond March 2019?
    If negotiations are going well, and they want to get the ultimate destination agreed before the transition kicks off, I could easily see a three month extension to get loose ends tied up.
    Extra time. Let's hope it doesn't go to penalties.
    We always lose to the Germans on penalties.
    Has Germany got a government - looks like deadlock and today was Merkel's demand for agreement.

    New elections risk Afd growing stronger
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,695
    edited November 2017

    GIN1138 said:

    March 2019? Why on Earth would HMG want to "extend" negotiations beyond March 2019?

    Because do you want Brexit good, or do you want it quick?
    Quick???

    In March 2019 it will already have been nearly 3 years since we voted to leave, and we'll have another god knows how many years of "transition" to endure after March 2019...

    You know, at some point the people who voted to leave have actually got to see something happen?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400
    IanB2 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Never heard of a coup before where the person being overthrown is allowed to decide whether or not to resign.

    It should be an offer he cannot refuse.

    What is concerning are the reports that people are preparing to celebrate, once they know he is indeed going, when the guy behind all this appears to be as nasty a piece of work as was/is Mugabe.
    People cannot help but hope I suppose, or pray that the unintended consequence will be to provide opportunity for actual improvement even though Mr Crocodile's track record would suggest he is not interested in such things.

    Piece on the BBC today I think about Hun Sen of Cambodia - apparently he's been getting steadily more autocratic over the years, and now the main opposition party has been disbanded. Supposedly due to support China there really is no need for those with autocratic tendencies to play nice anymore.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    IanB2 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Never heard of a coup before where the person being overthrown is allowed to decide whether or not to resign.

    It should be an offer he cannot refuse.

    What is concerning are the reports that people are preparing to celebrate, once they know he is indeed going, when the guy behind all this appears to be as nasty a piece of work as was/is Mugabe.
    It is only afterwards that we find out if he is Khruschev or Beria.
  • GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    March 2019? Why on Earth would HMG want to "extend" negotiations beyond March 2019?

    Because do you want Brexit good, or do you want it quick?
    Quick???

    In March 2019 it will already have been nearly 3 years since we voted to leave, and we'll have another god knows how many years of "transition" to endure after March 2019...

    You know, at some point the people who voted to leave have actually got to see something happen?
    Quick relative to the 46 years we will have been members of the EU.

    You can't undo 46 years worth of legislation just like that.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    kle4 said:

    Looking at other aging dictators, many are still only in their 70s, so can presumably last for quite some time before (if) they lose their grip like Mugabe.

    Changing the subject, had anyone seen Vince Cable lately? Remarkably low profile.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400
    Coups truly are fascinating, if often terrible or part of very chaotic and terrible times in a country. Looking at present leaders, the guy Omar Al Bashir of Sudan overthrew in 1989 is still active in Sudanese politics.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    March 2019? Why on Earth would HMG want to "extend" negotiations beyond March 2019?

    Because do you want Brexit good, or do you want it quick?
    Quick???

    In March 2019 it will already have been nearly 3 years since we voted to leave, and we'll have another god knows how many years of "transition" to endure after March 2019...

    You know, at some point the people who voted to leave have actually got to see something happen?
    Quick relative to the 46 years we will have been members of the EU.

    You can't undo 46 years worth of legislation just like that.
    How long can you do it in?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,695

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    March 2019? Why on Earth would HMG want to "extend" negotiations beyond March 2019?

    Because do you want Brexit good, or do you want it quick?
    Quick???

    In March 2019 it will already have been nearly 3 years since we voted to leave, and we'll have another god knows how many years of "transition" to endure after March 2019...

    You know, at some point the people who voted to leave have actually got to see something happen?
    Quick relative to the 46 years we will have been members of the EU.

    You can't undo 46 years worth of legislation just like that.
    I thought the idea of the Great Repeal Bill was to bring all that 46yrs worth of EU law into British law and let Parliament consider all of it at it's leisure? ;)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789
    GIN1138 said:

    You know, at some point the people who voted to leave have actually got to see something happen?

    Are you not enjoying the show so far?
  • Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    Looking at other aging dictators, many are still only in their 70s, so can presumably last for quite some time before (if) they lose their grip like Mugabe.

    Changing the subject, had anyone seen Vince Cable lately? Remarkably low profile.
    Under attack from his female activists today over Rennard

    Why can't the lib dems do the decent thing and put Norman Lamb in charge.

    He would be excellent
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400
    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    Looking at other aging dictators, many are still only in their 70s, so can presumably last for quite some time before (if) they lose their grip like Mugabe.

    Changing the subject, had anyone seen Vince Cable lately? Remarkably low profile.
    LOL
  • sladeslade Posts: 1,921
    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    Looking at other aging dictators, many are still only in their 70s, so can presumably last for quite some time before (if) they lose their grip like Mugabe.

    Changing the subject, had anyone seen Vince Cable lately? Remarkably low profile.
    He asked a question at PMQs. It was quite a good one but was quickly dismissed by May.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,695

    GIN1138 said:

    You know, at some point the people who voted to leave have actually got to see something happen?

    Are you not enjoying the show so far?
    Well given nothing has actually happened yet... Not really.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    Looking at other aging dictators, many are still only in their 70s, so can presumably last for quite some time before (if) they lose their grip like Mugabe.

    Changing the subject, had anyone seen Vince Cable lately? Remarkably low profile.
    Under attack from his female activists today over Rennard

    Why can't the lib dems do the decent thing and put Norman Lamb in charge.

    He would be excellent
    No way should Rennard have been allowed back

    Lamb is great. Swinson too and Tom Brake.

    Cable was the wrong choice.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969
    edited November 2017
    kle4 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    March 2019? Why on Earth would HMG want to "extend" negotiations beyond March 2019?

    Because do you want Brexit good, or do you want it quick?
    Quick???

    In March 2019 it will already have been nearly 3 years since we voted to leave, and we'll have another god knows how many years of "transition" to endure after March 2019...

    You know, at some point the people who voted to leave have actually got to see something happen?
    Quick relative to the 46 years we will have been members of the EU.

    You can't undo 46 years worth of legislation just like that.
    How long can you do it in?
    A decent government could achieve it within 3 to 5 years of triggering Article 50.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    Looking at other aging dictators, many are still only in their 70s, so can presumably last for quite some time before (if) they lose their grip like Mugabe.

    Changing the subject, had anyone seen Vince Cable lately? Remarkably low profile.
    Under attack from his female activists today over Rennard

    Why can't the lib dems do the decent thing and put Norman Lamb in charge.

    He would be excellent
    No way should Rennard have been allowed back

    Lamb is great. Swinson too and Tom Brake.

    Cable was the wrong choice.
    Well it wasn't a choice, as it?
  • GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    March 2019? Why on Earth would HMG want to "extend" negotiations beyond March 2019?

    Because do you want Brexit good, or do you want it quick?
    Quick???

    In March 2019 it will already have been nearly 3 years since we voted to leave, and we'll have another god knows how many years of "transition" to endure after March 2019...

    You know, at some point the people who voted to leave have actually got to see something happen?
    Quick relative to the 46 years we will have been members of the EU.

    You can't undo 46 years worth of legislation just like that.
    I thought the idea of the Great Repeal Bill was to bring all that 46yrs worth of EU law into British law and let Parliament consider all of it at it's leisure? ;)
    That risks the UK becoming a 'lawless' state.
  • Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    Looking at other aging dictators, many are still only in their 70s, so can presumably last for quite some time before (if) they lose their grip like Mugabe.

    Changing the subject, had anyone seen Vince Cable lately? Remarkably low profile.
    Under attack from his female activists today over Rennard

    Why can't the lib dems do the decent thing and put Norman Lamb in charge.

    He would be excellent
    No way should Rennard have been allowed back

    Lamb is great. Swinson too and Tom Brake.

    Cable was the wrong choice.
    Cable would have been the right choice ten years ago.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited November 2017
    Ashes: Australia recall wicketkeeper Tim Paine after seven years

    Full squad: Steve Smith (captain), David Warner, Cameron Bancroft, Jackson Bird, Pat Cummins, Peter Handscomb, Josh Hazlewood, Usman Khawaja, Nathan Lyon, Shaun Marsh, Tim Paine, Chadd Sayers, Mitchell Starc

    http://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/42013093
  • Must dash.

    Justice League starts in a few minutes.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    March 2019? Why on Earth would HMG want to "extend" negotiations beyond March 2019?

    Because do you want Brexit good, or do you want it quick?
    Quick???

    In March 2019 it will already have been nearly 3 years since we voted to leave, and we'll have another god knows how many years of "transition" to endure after March 2019...

    You know, at some point the people who voted to leave have actually got to see something happen?
    Quick relative to the 46 years we will have been members of the EU.

    You can't undo 46 years worth of legislation just like that.
    I thought the idea of the Great Repeal Bill was to bring all that 46yrs worth of EU law into British law and let Parliament consider all of it at it's leisure? ;)
    We were told for many years that British sovereignty and the EU take over was a myth .
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Better than average QT panel I think this evening.

    McDonnell's "infrastructure" investment though. It'd go straight to Mcluskey's pension pot would it not ?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969
    edited November 2017

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    March 2019? Why on Earth would HMG want to "extend" negotiations beyond March 2019?

    Because do you want Brexit good, or do you want it quick?
    Quick???

    In March 2019 it will already have been nearly 3 years since we voted to leave, and we'll have another god knows how many years of "transition" to endure after March 2019...

    You know, at some point the people who voted to leave have actually got to see something happen?
    Quick relative to the 46 years we will have been members of the EU.

    You can't undo 46 years worth of legislation just like that.
    I thought the idea of the Great Repeal Bill was to bring all that 46yrs worth of EU law into British law and let Parliament consider all of it at it's leisure? ;)
    We were told for many years that British sovereignty and the EU take over was a myth .
    David Davis said it was a myth a few months ago.

    This is about coming up with internationally accepted regulatory bodies, standards, and dispute resolution processes.

    If we hadn't joined the EC/EU back in 1973, we still would have had to pass similar laws in those 46 years.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,837

    Ashes: Australia recall wicketkeeper Tim Paine after seven years

    Full squad: Steve Smith (captain), David Warner, Cameron Bancroft, Jackson Bird, Pat Cummins, Peter Handscomb, Josh Hazlewood, Usman Khawaja, Nathan Lyon, Shaun Marsh, Tim Paine, Chadd Sayers, Mitchell Starc

    http://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/42013093

    Forgive my over optimism. But is that really a squad to strike fear? A 5-0 squad?
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    dixiedean said:

    Ashes: Australia recall wicketkeeper Tim Paine after seven years

    Full squad: Steve Smith (captain), David Warner, Cameron Bancroft, Jackson Bird, Pat Cummins, Peter Handscomb, Josh Hazlewood, Usman Khawaja, Nathan Lyon, Shaun Marsh, Tim Paine, Chadd Sayers, Mitchell Starc

    http://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/42013093

    Forgive my over optimism. But is that really a squad to strike fear? A 5-0 squad?
    I would have been more confident if we had stokes playing.
  • Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    Looking at other aging dictators, many are still only in their 70s, so can presumably last for quite some time before (if) they lose their grip like Mugabe.

    Changing the subject, had anyone seen Vince Cable lately? Remarkably low profile.
    Under attack from his female activists today over Rennard

    Why can't the lib dems do the decent thing and put Norman Lamb in charge.

    He would be excellent
    No way should Rennard have been allowed back

    Lamb is great. Swinson too and Tom Brake.

    Cable was the wrong choice.
    Lamb could interest me
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400
    dixiedean said:

    Ashes: Australia recall wicketkeeper Tim Paine after seven years

    Full squad: Steve Smith (captain), David Warner, Cameron Bancroft, Jackson Bird, Pat Cummins, Peter Handscomb, Josh Hazlewood, Usman Khawaja, Nathan Lyon, Shaun Marsh, Tim Paine, Chadd Sayers, Mitchell Starc

    http://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/42013093

    Forgive my over optimism. But is that really a squad to strike fear? A 5-0 squad?
    On the latter point, they are not so good I woukd expect that. Home advantage and if our top guys all fail maybe, but though I'd call them favourites neither side are world beaters.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited November 2017
    dixiedean said:

    Ashes: Australia recall wicketkeeper Tim Paine after seven years

    Full squad: Steve Smith (captain), David Warner, Cameron Bancroft, Jackson Bird, Pat Cummins, Peter Handscomb, Josh Hazlewood, Usman Khawaja, Nathan Lyon, Shaun Marsh, Tim Paine, Chadd Sayers, Mitchell Starc

    http://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/42013093

    Forgive my over optimism. But is that really a squad to strike fear? A 5-0 squad?
    It certainly isn't in the same universe as Warne, Mcgrath, Waugh, Waugh, Gilchrist etc etc etc team, no. But England team has fragile batting line up and the best two bowlers are aging.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    dixiedean said:

    Ashes: Australia recall wicketkeeper Tim Paine after seven years

    Full squad: Steve Smith (captain), David Warner, Cameron Bancroft, Jackson Bird, Pat Cummins, Peter Handscomb, Josh Hazlewood, Usman Khawaja, Nathan Lyon, Shaun Marsh, Tim Paine, Chadd Sayers, Mitchell Starc

    http://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/42013093

    Forgive my over optimism. But is that really a squad to strike fear? A 5-0 squad?
    It certainly isn't in the same universe as Warne, Mcgrath, Waugh, Waugh, Gilchrist etc etc etc team, no. But England team has fragile batting line up and the best two bowlers are aging.
    Also Aussies still have some decent Quicks.
This discussion has been closed.