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  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    Mr Corbyn angry the budget deficit has not been eliminated yet.
  • Mr Ranty Rant is on full steam.

    Can't listen to this rubbish.
  • TonyETonyE Posts: 938
    DavidL said:

    Mr Corbyn angry the budget deficit has not been eliminated yet.

    But opposed every reduction in spending.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    DavidL said:

    Mr Corbyn angry the budget deficit has not been eliminated yet.

    What spending cuts is he proposing to lower it ?
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921
    Can't Corbyn tub thump at speakers corner instead of demeaning the debate like this?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,458
    Pong said:

    Nothing on student loans?

    Did I miss it?

    The £25k threshold, rising with RPI - is that going ahead?

    My same thought.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    DavidL said:

    Mr Corbyn angry the budget deficit has not been eliminated yet.

    Seems like a weird line for labour to take tbh.
  • DavidL said:

    Mr Corbyn angry the budget deficit has not been eliminated yet.

    You do wonder if we have seen peak Corbyn
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    TonyE said:

    DavidL said:

    Mr Corbyn angry the budget deficit has not been eliminated yet.

    But opposed every reduction in spending.
    And wanting to spend more on everything as well, starting with the homeless.
  • Angry shouting Corbyn...
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400

    Pulpstar said:

    Damn, I'm a second time buyer.

    I'm curious as to exactly how the term is defined. Could one partner buy their first property and the other buy their second?
    Is this a record? A possible loophole found within 30 seconds!
    If the first time buyer half of the couple can stump up the whole of the mortgage by themselves then yes that could be done. Means they also own the whole house if things go sour in the relationship though.

    We've been through all this first time buyer supposed loop hole previously however.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165
    Pulpstar said:

    My other half is a first time buyer, but she's buying with me - and I'm a seller & second time buyer.

    Hmm...

    Surely it’s not that big a deal oop north? Or are you buying something rather grand?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited November 2017
    Corbyn reading out a prepared rant written by somebody else with nothing to do with the budget.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    edited November 2017

    Sandpit said:

    What did he mean by considering 'reforming' the VAT registration threshold, I wonder?

    If it’s causing problems it needs raising to £100k.

    Maybe make it based on income rather than turnover, so a plumber buying and reselling expensive parts for a customer isn’t affected, but an IT consultant is.
    A plumber buying and reselling expensive parts needs to be registered so that he can reclaim the VAT on his purchases!
    A domestic plumber doesn’t, he either presents the vendor’s invoice to the customer and adds a fee for supply, or he takes the total cost of the part as a business expense to offset against income tax, depending on whether he’s a company or a sole trader.

    Only plumbers doing most of their work for businesses need to be VAT registered at the moment.

    Oh, and a huge amount of business for tradesmen is still in cash.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Phil went at a rate of 2.07 words per second.
  • Pulpstar said:

    My other half is a first time buyer, but she's buying with me - and I'm a seller & second time buyer.

    Hmm...

    https://www.helptobuy.gov.uk/documents/2015/12/eligibility-of-ftbs.pdf
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    My other half is a first time buyer, but she's buying with me - and I'm a seller & second time buyer.

    Hmm...

    Surely it’s not that big a deal oop north? Or are you buying something rather grand?
    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    My other half is a first time buyer, but she's buying with me - and I'm a seller & second time buyer.

    Hmm...

    Surely it’s not that big a deal oop north? Or are you buying something rather grand?
    Check yr PM - don't want to go too much into personal circs on a public board.
  • Oh god he is doing pmqs, Margaret from morcombe stuff.
  • BigIanBigIan Posts: 198

    What did he mean by considering 'reforming' the VAT registration threshold, I wonder?

    Slice, not slab?
  • stevefstevef Posts: 1,044
    I notice that when Corbyn is put on the spot -as all leaders of the opposition are after a budget speech- he resorts not to forensic economic analysis -but rabble rousing red faced rants.

    Surely even he realises that in the next five years, the Tories will relentlessly undermine Corbyn's economic credibility and expose him as a man of empty postures. The situation in 2022 will be very different, and the Tories will not be in own goal scoring mode but will have a ruthless anti Corbyn strategy which will get the over 55s who abstained in 2017 out to the polling booth.

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    This is an auto-rant from Jezza.

    Not sure whether it is going to strike home even with the Mo team.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    This is not an easy speech to make but I still think it is the worst I have seen from the leader of the opposition.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,575

    MaxPB said:

    Mortimer said:

    Good idea making marketplaces jointly liable for VAT fraud.....

    Yup, he's just made Amazon and eBay into VAT police.
    Very sensible. They've got all the information and can easily detect the VAT scams using software.
    The initial revenue raised seems pretty small to me - but I have little doubt this will increase exponentially for the next few years.
  • Corbyn reading out a prepared rant written by somebody else with nothing to do with the budget.

    It is a difficult response to make but he just follows his pre written notes sounding utterly out of his depth.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    Pulpstar said:

    My other half is a first time buyer, but she's buying with me - and I'm a seller & second time buyer.

    Hmm...

    Yes, but the property (and the mortgage) will have to be entirely in her name.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited November 2017
    DavidL said:

    This is not an easy speech to make but I still think it is the worst I have seen from the leader of the opposition.

    You have to be bright to be able to figure it out on the fly. Eddie spheroids is probably the one labourite who could.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Tax-free personal allowance to rise to £11,850 in April 2018
    Higher-rate tax threshold to increase to £46,350
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    My other half is a first time buyer, but she's buying with me - and I'm a seller & second time buyer.

    Hmm...

    Yes, but the property (and the mortgage) will have to be entirely in her name.
    Couldn't do that even if wanted to - would fail affordability checks.

    The first time buyer is now at a MASSIVE stamp duty advantage compared to buy to let landlords though.
    Which is positive, home movers somewhere in the middle.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    stevef said:

    I notice that when Corbyn is put on the spot -as all leaders of the opposition are after a budget speech- he resorts not to forensic economic analysis -but rabble rousing red faced rants.

    Surely even he realises that in the next five years, the Tories will relentlessly undermine Corbyn's economic credibility and expose him as a man of empty postures. The situation in 2022 will be very different, and the Tories will not be in own goal scoring mode but will have a ruthless anti Corbyn strategy which will get the over 55s who abstained in 2017 out to the polling booth.

    The problem is that when it looks too easy for the Tories they turn on their own with a viciousness they rarely exhibit to Labour.
  • He is losing it totally - unbelievable
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    Corbyn reading out a prepared rant written by somebody else with nothing to do with the budget.

    Same as last year then.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited November 2017
    Head teacher mode....
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517
    Corbyn might be appearing too shouty live, but that's not what matters as relatively few people will be watching the budget live.

    What matters is getting the soundbites out there for the media to pick up. It's perhaps best to wait to see what clips of Hammond and Corbyn the media decide to use.

    One person's 'shouty' might, out of context, seem 'passionate' to others.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772

    DavidL said:

    This is not an easy speech to make but I still think it is the worst I have seen from the leader of the opposition.

    You have to be bright to be able to figure it out on the fly. Eddie spheroids is probably the one labourite who could.
    Blair was brilliant at it. I agree it played to Ed's diagnostic skills.
  • Corbyn might be appearing too shouty live, but that's not what matters as relatively few people will be watching the budget live.

    What matters is getting the soundbites out there for the media to pick up. It's perhaps best to wait to see what clips of Hammond and Corbyn the media decide to use.

    One person's 'shouty' might, out of context, seem 'passionate' to others.

    I am sure the twitter videos will look fine.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789
    TOPPING said:

    This is an auto-rant from Jezza.

    Not sure whether it is going to strike home even with the Mo team.

    Time for Thornberry?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,697

    Stamp duty gone on first time buyers upto £300,000 from today

    That's a nice one for the kids. :D
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    stevef said:

    I notice that when Corbyn is put on the spot -as all leaders of the opposition are after a budget speech- he resorts not to forensic economic analysis -but rabble rousing red faced rants.

    Surely even he realises that in the next five years, the Tories will relentlessly undermine Corbyn's economic credibility and expose him as a man of empty postures. The situation in 2022 will be very different, and the Tories will not be in own goal scoring mode but will have a ruthless anti Corbyn strategy which will get the over 55s who abstained in 2017 out to the polling booth.

    As he has zero even semi-formal understanding of economics ranting is all he can do.
  • TOPPING said:

    This is an auto-rant from Jezza.

    Not sure whether it is going to strike home even with the Mo team.

    Time for Thornberry?
    She would give labour a better chance than Corbyn who simply is not up to the job
  • I don’t even know what he is ranting about now, Robert is wrong about something apparently.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704

    TOPPING said:

    This is an auto-rant from Jezza.

    Not sure whether it is going to strike home even with the Mo team.

    Time for Thornberry?

    Isn't that what he did last year?
  • stevef said:

    I notice that when Corbyn is put on the spot -as all leaders of the opposition are after a budget speech- he resorts not to forensic economic analysis -but rabble rousing red faced rants.

    Surely even he realises that in the next five years, the Tories will relentlessly undermine Corbyn's economic credibility and expose him as a man of empty postures. The situation in 2022 will be very different, and the Tories will not be in own goal scoring mode but will have a ruthless anti Corbyn strategy which will get the over 55s who abstained in 2017 out to the polling booth.

    And if the OBR is correct the UK will be entering its fifth year of anaemic growth, with all the effects that tis will have had on public spending, wages and so on.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    Wonder what Vince will have to say. If there is a day when he can shine as Lib Dem leader it is surely today.
  • TOPPING said:

    This is an auto-rant from Jezza.

    Not sure whether it is going to strike home even with the Mo team.

    Time for Thornberry?
    She'd be pretty good at this.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    TGOHF said:

    Tax-free personal allowance to rise to £11,850 in April 2018
    Higher-rate tax threshold to increase to £46,350

    Getting closer to the £50k target every year.
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115

    Oh god he is doing pmqs, Margaret from morcombe stuff.

    I have a letter here from Seamus in Moscow. Seamus has asked if the Prime Minister could explain how a gentle butterfly like Ratko Mladic gets his collar felt in the Hague when an evil bastard Anthony Blair gets away scot-free. Is this another Tory conspiracy?
  • DavidL said:

    This is not an easy speech to make but I still think it is the worst I have seen from the leader of the opposition.

    This gets said every year.

    Surely the worst one ever was when Cameron missed the fact that Brown had effectively put income tax up for the lowest paid and it was left to Nick Clegg - briefed by Vince Cable - to point it out.

  • DavidL said:

    Wonder what Vince will have to say. If there is a day when he can shine as Lib Dem leader it is surely today.

    I don't think I can take anymore after this nonsense from Corbyn
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    Cap credit card debt so that nobody pays back more than they borrowed????

    Does he have any idea what he is talking about?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    edited November 2017
    Did he just say no one should pay back more than they borrowed?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited November 2017
    TOPPING said:

    Did he just say no one should pay back more than they borrowed?

    Thats it, he gets my vote...interest free loans on my credit card...wooohoooo....
  • DavidL said:

    Cap credit card debt so that nobody pays back more than they borrowed????

    Does he have any idea what he is talking about?

    No
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,281
    Corbyn just said people shouldn't repay more on credit cards than they borrowed.

    Would imply you pay no interest at all.

    Suggestion was actually that interest should not exceed capital.
  • There's only one thing notable about this budget. From the downgrading of growth estimates since March 2016, it is now clear that the much-derided Project Fear financial estimates were pretty good. The Brexit damage is arriving, just as predicted.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    edited November 2017
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    My other half is a first time buyer, but she's buying with me - and I'm a seller & second time buyer.

    Hmm...

    Yes, but the property (and the mortgage) will have to be entirely in her name.
    Couldn't do that even if wanted to - would fail affordability checks.

    The first time buyer is now at a MASSIVE stamp duty advantage compared to buy to let landlords though.
    Which is positive, home movers somewhere in the middle.
    Yes, the second buyer is now at a slight disadvantage, but I’m wondering if the high threshold of £300k will make much of a difference. The only place first time buyers are spending £300k is London.
    My brother will be royally peeved, he bought a flat for £280k near Twickenham six months ago.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    @pulpstar

    Martin Lewis‏Verified account @MartinSLewis
    4m4 minutes ago

    Sadly for those buying jointly "Where there are joint purchasers, all purchasers would need to be first-time buyers. "
    9 replies 22 retweets 13 likes
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    Some good proposals from Hammond on tax avoidance and house building.

    I am also very pleased he took properties under £300 000 out of stamp duty for first time buyers as I am just about to complete on a flat I bought just under that price.
  • Pong said:

    @pulpstar

    Martin Lewis‏Verified account @MartinSLewis
    4m4 minutes ago

    Sadly for those buying jointly "Where there are joint purchasers, all purchasers would need to be first-time buyers. "
    9 replies 22 retweets 13 likes

    Quite right
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Pong said:

    @pulpstar

    Martin Lewis‏Verified account @MartinSLewis
    4m4 minutes ago

    Sadly for those buying jointly "Where there are joint purchasers, all purchasers would need to be first-time buyers. "
    9 replies 22 retweets 13 likes

    Chinned !
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486

    DavidL said:

    This is not an easy speech to make but I still think it is the worst I have seen from the leader of the opposition.

    This gets said every year.

    Surely the worst one ever was when Cameron missed the fact that Brown had effectively put income tax up for the lowest paid and it was left to Nick Clegg - briefed by Vince Cable - to point it out.

    I can't remember a leader of the opposition engaging so directly with the content of the actual Budget as Jeremy Corbyn is doing now.
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115

    There's only one thing notable about this budget. From the downgrading of growth estimates since March 2016, it is now clear that the much-derided Project Fear financial estimates were pretty good. The Brexit damage is arriving, just as predicted.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36355564

    LOL.

    You were wrong. Difficult to admit, I know. But completely wrong.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    Grenfell tower was not operated by a profit making organisation.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842

    Pong said:

    @pulpstar

    Martin Lewis‏Verified account @MartinSLewis
    4m4 minutes ago

    Sadly for those buying jointly "Where there are joint purchasers, all purchasers would need to be first-time buyers. "
    9 replies 22 retweets 13 likes

    Quite right
    They should close the loophole on spouses too though. Hubby bought property yonks ago, now his wife could be a first time buyer for their pension pot BTL home

    Or insist the purchaser is an owner occupier. That would work too.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    edited November 2017
    I wish he'd stop shouting. It's quite painful to listen to.

    edit: aside from content, which is very painful indeed.
  • Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    What did he mean by considering 'reforming' the VAT registration threshold, I wonder?

    If it’s causing problems it needs raising to £100k.

    Maybe make it based on income rather than turnover, so a plumber buying and reselling expensive parts for a customer isn’t affected, but an IT consultant is.
    A plumber buying and reselling expensive parts needs to be registered so that he can reclaim the VAT on his purchases!
    A domestic plumber doesn’t, he either presents the vendor’s invoice to the customer and adds a fee for supply, or he takes the total cost of the part as a business expense to offset against income tax, depending on whether he’s a company or a sole trader.

    Only plumbers doing most of their work for businesses need to be VAT registered at the moment.

    Oh, and a huge amount of business for tradesmen is still in cash.
    But the point is that a plumber buying expensive parts is actually cushioned from the VAT threshold by being allowed suddenly to reclaim the VAT on all those expensive parts.

    The VAT threshold hurts worst those who don't get to reclaim much input VAT.
  • TOPPING said:

    I wish he'd stop shouting. It's quite painful to listen to.

    edit: aside from content, which is very painful indeed.

    He's finished thankfully
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited November 2017
    Hang on.

    Forgive my (rational) paranoia, but....

    What about the tories post-election student loans promise to raise plan 2 repayment threshold to £25k + rising with avg earnings?

    Makes no sense not mentioning it. It was bloody expensive for the chancellor.

    They haven't gone back on it, surely?
  • Pulpstar said:

    They should close the loophole on spouses too though. Hubby bought property yonks ago, now his wife could be a first time buyer for their pension pot BTL home

    Or insist the purchaser is an owner occupier. That would work too.

    It already works like that, surely?
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    Pulpstar said:

    Pong said:

    @pulpstar

    Martin Lewis‏Verified account @MartinSLewis
    4m4 minutes ago

    Sadly for those buying jointly "Where there are joint purchasers, all purchasers would need to be first-time buyers. "
    9 replies 22 retweets 13 likes

    Quite right

    Or insist the purchaser is an owner occupier. That would work too.

    Already the case.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    Sandpit said:

    Stamp duty gone on first time buyers upto £300,000 from today

    That’s a biggie!
    Won't this increase house prices???? More demand from 1st timers - same supply (given or take a few 1000 that they manage to actually build).
    The house price itself is actually irrelevant to the problem. The problem is the cost of raising a deposit and the transaction costs. The move on stamp duty is much better than HtB schemes.
  • There's only one thing notable about this budget. From the downgrading of growth estimates since March 2016, it is now clear that the much-derided Project Fear financial estimates were pretty good. The Brexit damage is arriving, just as predicted.

    Yes, the growth predictions were the killer thing here. Fortunately for Phil, the Brexit press won't want to hear about that, so they're probably major on stamp duty. Phil has covered his backside well enough for now.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,575
    God, Corbyn makes Hammond seem like a standup pro.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,281
    Big picture for the public is surely status quo - no mega announcements affecting lots of people.

    Sort of gives message that Brexit isn't causing a shock.

    (Despite lower growth)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    Pong said:

    Hang on.

    Forgive my (rational) paranoia, but....

    What about the tories post-election student loans promise to raise plan 2 repayment threshold to £25k + rising with avg earnings?

    Makes no sense not mentioning it. It was bloody expensive for the chancellor.

    They haven't gone back on it, surely?

    The assumption should be that what’s been announced already isn’t going to change.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969
    edited November 2017
    .
  • Pong said:

    Hang on.

    Forgive my (rational) paranoia, but....

    What about the tories post-election student loans promise to raise plan 2 repayment threshold to £25k + rising with avg earnings?

    Makes no sense not mentioning it. It was bloody expensive for the chancellor.

    They haven't gone back on it, surely?

    Page 25 of the red book:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/661480/autumn_budget_2017_web.pdf
  • Fenster said:

    There's only one thing notable about this budget. From the downgrading of growth estimates since March 2016, it is now clear that the much-derided Project Fear financial estimates were pretty good. The Brexit damage is arriving, just as predicted.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36355564

    LOL.

    You were wrong. Difficult to admit, I know. But completely wrong.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/hm-treasury-analysis-shows-leaving-eu-would-cost-british-households-4300-per-year

    "Using a negotiated bilateral agreement like Canada as the central assumption for the alternative, Britain would be worse off by the equivalent of £1,800 every year for every man, woman and child in Britain after 15 years, and overall GDP would be lower by 6.2%. Other options being proposed would be worse still."

    Britain has suffered half of that 6.2% difference already since the March 2016 forecasts.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    DavidL said:

    JonathanD said:

    Fenster said:

    JonathanD said:

    Fenster said:

    Where is the economic crash?

    Let's be honest, five consecutive years of economic growth bears no resemblance to the armageddon predicted by the Remain camp.
    Medium term GDP growth of 1.5% as a result of Brexit was pretty much the Remain forecast.
    Recession was the Remain forecast. Let's not have any of this mealy-mouthed bullshit.
    Fortunately we've been pulled along by a booming EU.
    They are not booming but doing better, in part because of the amount we import from them. They really should think about that.
    So should we.
  • DavidL said:

    Hmm, increase on air passenger duty for premium & business class. That's the winter fuel allowance more than clawed back, I suspect.

    Go cattle.
    Never, ever again, for long-haul. I'd rather stay at home. Premium economy is OK, though, especially for daytime flights.
    Go by train.
    Bit hard if you're going to the Caribbean!
    Granted, there are a few places where surface transport doesn't really work. Only a few though.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789

    There's only one thing notable about this budget. From the downgrading of growth estimates since March 2016, it is now clear that the much-derided Project Fear financial estimates were pretty good. The Brexit damage is arriving, just as predicted.

    Yes, the growth predictions were the killer thing here. Fortunately for Phil, the Brexit press won't want to hear about that, so they're probably major on stamp duty. Phil has covered his backside well enough for now.
    The stamp duty cut could be the kind of housing market intervention that has unintended consequences. If it encourages people with portfolios of properties under £300,000 to put them on the market, we could see a glut of supply triggering a crash.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited November 2017

    Pong said:

    Hang on.

    Forgive my (rational) paranoia, but....

    What about the tories post-election student loans promise to raise plan 2 repayment threshold to £25k + rising with avg earnings?

    Makes no sense not mentioning it. It was bloody expensive for the chancellor.

    They haven't gone back on it, surely?

    Page 25 of the red book:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/661480/autumn_budget_2017_web.pdf
    Thanks.

    Footnote 4.

    Hammond missed a free kick at an open goal, there.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Pulpstar said:

    My other half is a first time buyer, but she's buying with me - and I'm a seller & second time buyer.

    Hmm...

    If you a buying joint then you are out of luck. If your other half purchases solely then obviously they'll only be able to get a lower mortgage and there will be some legal stuff about your entitlement to the property.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Off topic:

    The Cleveland Browns have a small chance to make the play offs.

    1 in 19,649,922,085,696,900,000.
  • There's only one thing notable about this budget. From the downgrading of growth estimates since March 2016, it is now clear that the much-derided Project Fear financial estimates were pretty good. The Brexit damage is arriving, just as predicted.

    Yes, the growth predictions were the killer thing here. Fortunately for Phil, the Brexit press won't want to hear about that, so they're probably major on stamp duty. Phil has covered his backside well enough for now.
    The stamp duty cut could be the kind of housing market intervention that has unintended consequences. If it encourages people with portfolios of properties under £300,000 to put them on the market, we could see a glut of supply triggering a crash.
    Eh? It makes it easier (for some purchasers) to buy. Other things being equal, that might increase prices a smidgen. It certainly won't reduce them.
  • There's only one thing notable about this budget. From the downgrading of growth estimates since March 2016, it is now clear that the much-derided Project Fear financial estimates were pretty good. The Brexit damage is arriving, just as predicted.

    Yes, the growth predictions were the killer thing here. Fortunately for Phil, the Brexit press won't want to hear about that, so they're probably major on stamp duty. Phil has covered his backside well enough for now.
    The stamp duty cut could be the kind of housing market intervention that has unintended consequences. If it encourages people with portfolios of properties under £300,000 to put them on the market, we could see a glut of supply triggering a crash.
    And this would be bad because?
  • IFS agree Hammond has slackened his borrowing requirements
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,721
    edited November 2017
    OK - So trying to find out where the money is coming from... Going through the policy costings (https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/661428/Autumn_Budget_Policy_costings_document_web.pdf) there is a fair chunk from 'Compliance / Enforcement' type actions. Also, the freezing of the Indexation Allowance on Corporation Tax appears to raise a fair bit.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603

    Fenster said:

    There's only one thing notable about this budget. From the downgrading of growth estimates since March 2016, it is now clear that the much-derided Project Fear financial estimates were pretty good. The Brexit damage is arriving, just as predicted.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36355564

    LOL.

    You were wrong. Difficult to admit, I know. But completely wrong.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/hm-treasury-analysis-shows-leaving-eu-would-cost-british-households-4300-per-year

    "Using a negotiated bilateral agreement like Canada as the central assumption for the alternative, Britain would be worse off by the equivalent of £1,800 every year for every man, woman and child in Britain after 15 years, and overall GDP would be lower by 6.2%. Other options being proposed would be worse still."

    Britain has suffered half of that 6.2% difference already since the March 2016 forecasts.
    Can we revisit this in 2021/22. No one has suffered anything other than having to read the OBR forecasts.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Sandpit said:

    Stamp duty gone on first time buyers upto £300,000 from today

    That’s a biggie!
    Won't this increase house prices???? More demand from 1st timers - same supply (given or take a few 1000 that they manage to actually build).
    Yup, well heeled first time buyers can now make bigger offers.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    I’ve exchanged but not completed. We won’t complete until May as the house is being built. Will I need to pay stamp duty? If not, result!
  • BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    edited November 2017

    DavidL said:

    This is not an easy speech to make but I still think it is the worst I have seen from the leader of the opposition.

    This gets said every year.

    Surely the worst one ever was when Cameron missed the fact that Brown had effectively put income tax up for the lowest paid and it was left to Nick Clegg - briefed by Vince Cable - to point it out.

    What got me about that one was that someone spotted it on here the moment it was announced.

    It is covered in reports at the time

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6472999.stm

    However, it was only really a Big Major Issue months and months later.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10p_tax_rate

    "Gordon Brown announced in 2007 that the reduced tax rate for low incomes would be abolished from April 2008.[7] This meant that all income above the personal allowance and below the higher rate band would be taxed at 20%, with the effect that taxpayers earning above the personal allowance would be up to £232 worse off each year.[8]

    The abolition of the 10% tax band came into effect at the start of the 2008 tax year and was the source of considerable criticism. High-profile figures protested, including former minister Frank Field.[9]"

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2008/apr/30/economy.gordonbrown

    April 2008
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    This is not an easy speech to make but I still think it is the worst I have seen from the leader of the opposition.

    You have to be bright to be able to figure it out on the fly. Eddie spheroids is probably the one labourite who could.
    Blair was brilliant at it. I agree it played to Ed's diagnostic skills.
    Although Balls never did, did he? It would always have been Miliband who answered a Budget (I think the SCOTE answered the Autumn statement, when we still had those)?
  • jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,261
    Pulpstar said:

    Off topic:

    The Cleveland Browns have a small chance to make the play offs.

    1 in 19,649,922,085,696,900,000.

    I don't think my Packers have much more chance in reality.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789

    There's only one thing notable about this budget. From the downgrading of growth estimates since March 2016, it is now clear that the much-derided Project Fear financial estimates were pretty good. The Brexit damage is arriving, just as predicted.

    Yes, the growth predictions were the killer thing here. Fortunately for Phil, the Brexit press won't want to hear about that, so they're probably major on stamp duty. Phil has covered his backside well enough for now.
    The stamp duty cut could be the kind of housing market intervention that has unintended consequences. If it encourages people with portfolios of properties under £300,000 to put them on the market, we could see a glut of supply triggering a crash.
    Eh? It makes it easier (for some purchasers) to buy. Other things being equal, that might increase prices a smidgen. It certainly won't reduce them.
    I'm suggesting that other things might not be equal. Landlords are getting squeezed and they may see this as a good time to exit the market, but cutting stamp duty won't increase demand.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,545

    I simply don't see how this balances out. I assume there must be something in the paperwork but he seems to be saying we will have more spending, lower GDP and lower debt. Surely those things are mutually exclusive.

    Welcome to the inflationary times. This is all possible. Just make sure expenditure increases in nominal terms while taxes and debt don't decrease in real terms
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    .
    MaxPB said:

    Fenster said:

    There's only one thing notable about this budget. From the downgrading of growth estimates since March 2016, it is now clear that the much-derided Project Fear financial estimates were pretty good. The Brexit damage is arriving, just as predicted.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36355564

    LOL.

    You were wrong. Difficult to admit, I know. But completely wrong.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/hm-treasury-analysis-shows-leaving-eu-would-cost-british-households-4300-per-year

    "Using a negotiated bilateral agreement like Canada as the central assumption for the alternative, Britain would be worse off by the equivalent of £1,800 every year for every man, woman and child in Britain after 15 years, and overall GDP would be lower by 6.2%. Other options being proposed would be worse still."

    Britain has suffered half of that 6.2% difference already since the March 2016 forecasts.
    Can we revisit this in 2021/22. No one has suffered anything other than having to read the OBR forecasts.

    http://metro.co.uk/2017/11/01/brexit-has-already-cost-each-household-600-a-year-7046177/
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    The growth rates are getting a lot of attention but they are almost certainly nonsense. For a start are we really going to have another 5 years without recession? That will be 15 years from the last recession. Seems a very long cycle.
  • So far no immediate horlicks come to light for Hammond
This discussion has been closed.