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  • Options
    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,987
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    surbiton said:

    HYUFD said:

    surbiton said:

    AndyJS said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Momentum set to seize control of Haringey council after next May's elections following a purge of moderate councillors in selection battles and their replacement by Corbynistas
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/corbynistas-purge-of-moderates-in-london-gathers-momentum-a3706166.html

    Any sensible resident of Haringey should vote LibDem. There being no Tories there, at all.
    Labour won 48 seats and the LDs 9 in Haringey last time
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_local_elections,_2014
    Labour could win the lot this time. (In Haringey).
    Labour could also win most boroughs.
    It already has, in 2014 Labour won 20 London boroughs, to 9 for the Tories and 1 for the LDs and 82 councils UK wide to 41 for the Tories and 6 for the LDs.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_local_elections,_2014
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_local_elections,_2014
    Many boroughs unthinkable in the last 30 years could fall.

    Barnet, Hillingdon, Wandsworth, even Westminster. Tower Hamlets should go back to Labour.

    LDs could win Richmond and Kingston & Surbiton.
    Barnet is unlikely to go because the Jewish vote is so anti Corbyn and all 3 Barnet seats stayed Tory in June, Uxbridge stayed Tory at the general election as did Cities of London and Westminster. Tower Hamlets would only go back to Labour by replacing a far left faction with a far left faction. Kensington may go to NOC after Grenfell, Wandsworth could go Labour but even there the Tories held Putney and had a good recent council by election result. Most of the swing boroughs in London are already Labour controlled.

    The LDs may win back Kingston and Surbiton which they won in June, though the fact Zac Goldsmith won his parliamentary seat back means Richmond Park is not a certain LD gain.
    The London Borough of Richmond Upon Thames contains the constituencies of Twickenham and Richmond Park. Aggregating the votes from the General would suggest a LibDem gain, as their 9,800 majority there outweighs the Conservative's 45 vote one in Richmond Park.

    However, I have a theory that Zac is a proven vote loser, so I wouldn't be surprised if the Conservatives outperformed their General Election result in the Richmond Park part of the borough.
    The other factor is that there are a lot of EU nationals in Richmond Park who were not allowed to vote in the General but who can vote in the Local. This is their last chance to make their voice heard. That's what I'm saying on the doorstep.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    Barnesian said:

    The other factor is that there are a lot of EU nationals in Richmond Park who were not allowed to vote in the General but who can vote in the Local. This is their last chance to make their voice heard. That's what I'm saying on the doorstep.

    Great. Stop Brexit by, er, getting your potholes fixed.....
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    edited November 2017
    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/bbchelenalee/status/936345412524527616

    I would hardly call his reply "slamming" the PM.
  • Options
    AndyJS said:

    HYUFD said:

    surbiton said:

    HYUFD said:

    surbiton said:

    AndyJS said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Momentum set to seize control of Haringey council after next May's elections following a purge of moderate councillors in selection battles and their replacement by Corbynistas
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/corbynistas-purge-of-moderates-in-london-gathers-momentum-a3706166.html

    Any sensible resident of Haringey should vote LibDem. There being no Tories there, at all.
    Labour won 48 seats and the LDs 9 in Haringey last time
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_local_elections,_2014
    Labour could win the lot this time. (In Haringey).
    Labour could also win most boroughs.
    It already has, in 2014 Labour won 20 London boroughs, to 9 for the Tories and 1 for the LDs and 82 councils UK wide to 41 for the Tories and 6 for the LDs.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_local_elections,_2014
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_local_elections,_2014
    Many boroughs unthinkable in the last 30 years could fall.

    Barnet, Hillingdon, Wandsworth, even Westminster. Tower Hamlets should go back to Labour.

    LDs could win Richmond and Kingston & Surbiton.
    Barnet is unlikely to go because the Jewish vote is so anti Corbyn and all 3 Barnet seats stayed Tory in June, Uxbridge stayed Tory at the general election as did Cities of London and Westminster. Tower Hamlets would only go back to Labour by replacing a far left faction with a far left faction. Kensington may go to NOC after Grenfell, Wandsworth could go Labour but even there the Tories held Putney and had a good recent council by election result. Most of the swing boroughs in London are already Labour controlled.

    The LDs may win back Kingston and Surbiton which they won in June, though the fact Zac Goldsmith won his parliamentary seat back means Richmond Park is not a certain LD gain.
    The 3 Barnet seats only just stayed Tory and it's likely Conservative-inclined voters are continuing to move out of the borough to places like Hertsmere and Watford.
    It's very hard to see how the Tories can recover in London.
  • Options

    It's very hard to see how the Tories can recover in London.

    Make George Osborne Tory leader.

    He knows and understands Londoners.

    Con Gain Islington North if George Osborne CH is Tory leader.
  • Options
    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,987

    Barnesian said:

    The other factor is that there are a lot of EU nationals in Richmond Park who were not allowed to vote in the General but who can vote in the Local. This is their last chance to make their voice heard. That's what I'm saying on the doorstep.

    Great. Stop Brexit by, er, getting your potholes fixed.....
    :) LibDems taking the Council will help in the General - and it makes people feel better that they are doing something to protest against Brexit, even if it is a bit remote. What else do they have but their vote?
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    That Trump spokeswoman looks rather like Lisa Nandy....
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,936
    Danny565 said:

    That Trump spokeswoman looks rather like Lisa Nandy....

    Sarah Huckabee?
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    The other factor is that there are a lot of EU nationals in Richmond Park who were not allowed to vote in the General but who can vote in the Local. This is their last chance to make their voice heard. That's what I'm saying on the doorstep.

    Great. Stop Brexit by, er, getting your potholes fixed.....
    :) LibDems taking the Council will help in the General - and it makes people feel better that they are doing something to protest against Brexit, even if it is a bit remote. What else do they have but their vote?
    Punishing the Tories for Brexit will not stop it, but it may make the Tories stop and think a little more about the damage that they inflict. Just as the LDs are still being punished for the 2010 coalition, the Brexit punishment will carry on.
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Mortimer said:

    Danny565 said:

    That Trump spokeswoman looks rather like Lisa Nandy....

    Sarah Huckabee?
    Yup.
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,821
    I thought TM was excellent on Trump tweets today.

    Good for her. After a good PMQ s last week she has had her best week for a long time.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,936
    edited November 2017

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    The other factor is that there are a lot of EU nationals in Richmond Park who were not allowed to vote in the General but who can vote in the Local. This is their last chance to make their voice heard. That's what I'm saying on the doorstep.

    Great. Stop Brexit by, er, getting your potholes fixed.....
    :) LibDems taking the Council will help in the General - and it makes people feel better that they are doing something to protest against Brexit, even if it is a bit remote. What else do they have but their vote?
    Punishing the Tories for Brexit will not stop it, but it may make the Tories stop and think a little more about the damage that they inflict. Just as the LDs are still being punished for the 2010 coalition, the Brexit punishment will carry on.
    Th interesting thing is that even after finding something to rail against again, the LDs are still making no inroads nationally. As far as I can see, they're going backwards with a leader who has never been so quiet...
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Mortimer said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    The other factor is that there are a lot of EU nationals in Richmond Park who were not allowed to vote in the General but who can vote in the Local. This is their last chance to make their voice heard. That's what I'm saying on the doorstep.

    Great. Stop Brexit by, er, getting your potholes fixed.....
    :) LibDems taking the Council will help in the General - and it makes people feel better that they are doing something to protest against Brexit, even if it is a bit remote. What else do they have but their vote?
    Punishing the Tories for Brexit will not stop it, but it may make the Tories stop and think a little more about the damage that they inflict. Just as the LDs are still being punished for the 2010 coalition, the Brexit punishment will carry on.
    Th interesting thing is that even after finding something to rail against again, the LDs are still making no inroads nationally. As far as I can see, they're going backwards with a leader who has never been so quiet...
    Cable was the wrong choice, and a coronation was worse.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,580

    I thought TM was excellent on Trump tweets today.

    Good for her. After a good PMQ s last week she has had her best week for a long time.

    You're in a very narrow slice of the Venn Diagram reserved for people who have voted for the Momentum slate and praised Tezzie in the same day!
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,936

    Mortimer said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    The other factor is that there are a lot of EU nationals in Richmond Park who were not allowed to vote in the General but who can vote in the Local. This is their last chance to make their voice heard. That's what I'm saying on the doorstep.

    Great. Stop Brexit by, er, getting your potholes fixed.....
    :) LibDems taking the Council will help in the General - and it makes people feel better that they are doing something to protest against Brexit, even if it is a bit remote. What else do they have but their vote?
    Punishing the Tories for Brexit will not stop it, but it may make the Tories stop and think a little more about the damage that they inflict. Just as the LDs are still being punished for the 2010 coalition, the Brexit punishment will carry on.
    Th interesting thing is that even after finding something to rail against again, the LDs are still making no inroads nationally. As far as I can see, they're going backwards with a leader who has never been so quiet...
    Cable was the wrong choice, and a coronation was worse.
    Do you think it's just the leader?

    Locally the LD desire seems to have gone... Do LDs know what they stand for now?
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,821

    I thought TM was excellent on Trump tweets today.

    Good for her. After a good PMQ s last week she has had her best week for a long time.

    You're in a very narrow slice of the Venn Diagram reserved for people who have voted for the Momentum slate and praised Tezzie in the same day!
    I am aren't I.

    Oh well takes allsorts
  • Options
    QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,949

    Mortimer said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    The other factor is that there are a lot of EU nationals in Richmond Park who were not allowed to vote in the General but who can vote in the Local. This is their last chance to make their voice heard. That's what I'm saying on the doorstep.

    Great. Stop Brexit by, er, getting your potholes fixed.....
    :) LibDems taking the Council will help in the General - and it makes people feel better that they are doing something to protest against Brexit, even if it is a bit remote. What else do they have but their vote?
    Punishing the Tories for Brexit will not stop it, but it may make the Tories stop and think a little more about the damage that they inflict. Just as the LDs are still being punished for the 2010 coalition, the Brexit punishment will carry on.
    Th interesting thing is that even after finding something to rail against again, the LDs are still making no inroads nationally. As far as I can see, they're going backwards with a leader who has never been so quiet...
    Cable was the wrong choice, and a coronation was worse.
    We can't force Jo Swinson to stand, and the rest all looked bad choices tbh.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Quincel said:

    Mortimer said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    The other factor is that there are a lot of EU nationals in Richmond Park who were not allowed to vote in the General but who can vote in the Local. This is their last chance to make their voice heard. That's what I'm saying on the doorstep.

    Great. Stop Brexit by, er, getting your potholes fixed.....
    :) LibDems taking the Council will help in the General - and it makes people feel better that they are doing something to protest against Brexit, even if it is a bit remote. What else do they have but their vote?
    Punishing the Tories for Brexit will not stop it, but it may make the Tories stop and think a little more about the damage that they inflict. Just as the LDs are still being punished for the 2010 coalition, the Brexit punishment will carry on.
    Th interesting thing is that even after finding something to rail against again, the LDs are still making no inroads nationally. As far as I can see, they're going backwards with a leader who has never been so quiet...
    Cable was the wrong choice, and a coronation was worse.
    We can't force Jo Swinson to stand, and the rest all looked bad choices tbh.
    I think Tim should have stayed on, at least he has energy.

    Ideally I wanted Lamb, who has a broader and more thoughtful Liberalism, and has a more nuanced response to Brexit.

  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095

    It's very hard to see how the Tories can recover in London.

    Make George Osborne Tory leader.

    He knows and understands Londoners.

    Con Gain Islington North if George Osborne CH is Tory leader.
    He knows how to get booed by Londoners....
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,936

    It's very hard to see how the Tories can recover in London.

    Make George Osborne Tory leader.

    He knows and understands Londoners.

    Con Gain Islington North if George Osborne CH is Tory leader.
    He knows how to get booed by Londoners....
    :)
  • Options

    It's very hard to see how the Tories can recover in London.

    Make George Osborne Tory leader.

    He knows and understands Londoners.

    Con Gain Islington North if George Osborne CH is Tory leader.
    He knows how to get booed by Londoners....
    And three years later the Tories made gains in London.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    AndyJS said:

    HYUFD said:

    surbiton said:

    HYUFD said:

    surbiton said:

    AndyJS said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Momentum set to seize control of Haringey council after next May's elections following a purge of moderate councillors in selection battles and their replacement by Corbynistas
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/corbynistas-purge-of-moderates-in-london-gathers-momentum-a3706166.html

    Any sensible resident of Haringey should vote LibDem. There being no Tories there, at all.
    Labour won 48 seats and the LDs 9 in Haringey last time
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_local_elections,_2014
    Labour could win the lot this time. (In Haringey).
    Labour could also win most boroughs.
    It already has, in 2014 Labour won 20 London boroughs, to 9 for the Tories and 1 for the LDs and 82 councils UK wide to 41 for the Tories and 6 for the LDs.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_local_elections,_2014
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_local_elections,_2014
    Many boroughs unthinkable in the last 30 years could fall.

    Barnet, Hillingdon, Wandsworth, even Westminster. Tower Hamlets should go back to Labour.

    LDs could win Richmond and Kingston & Surbiton.
    Barnet is unlikely to go because the Jewish vote is so anti Corbyn and all 3 Barnet seats stayed Tory in June, Uxbridge stayed Tory at the general election as did Cities of London and Westminster. Tower Hamlets would only go back to Labour by replacing a far left faction with a far left faction. Kensington may go to NOC after Grenfell, Wandsworth could go Labour but even there the Tories held Putney and had a good recent council by election result. Most of the swing boroughs in London are already Labour controlled.

    The LDs may win back Kingston and Surbiton which they won in June, though the fact Zac Goldsmith won his parliamentary seat back means Richmond Park is not a certain LD gain.
    The 3 Barnet seats only just stayed Tory and it's likely Conservative-inclined voters are continuing to move out of the borough to places like Hertsmere and Watford.
    It's very hard to see how the Tories can recover in London.
    You can't recover if most of your voters move somewhere else.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,940
    edited November 2017

    It's very hard to see how the Tories can recover in London.

    Make George Osborne Tory leader.

    He knows and understands Londoners.

    Con Gain Islington North if George Osborne CH is Tory leader.
    He knows how to get booed by Londoners....
    And three years later the Tories made gains in London.
    Not true, the Tories lost 4 seats to Labour in London with no gains from Ed Miliband's party in the capital at the 2015 general election even if they gained a net 24 seats in the UK overall.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,289
    edited November 2017
    HYUFD said:

    It's very hard to see how the Tories can recover in London.

    Make George Osborne Tory leader.

    He knows and understands Londoners.

    Con Gain Islington North if George Osborne CH is Tory leader.
    He knows how to get booed by Londoners....
    And three years later the Tories made gains in London.
    Not true, the Tories lost 4 seats to Labour in London at the 2015 general election even if they gained a net 24 overall.
    Are you telling me Twickenham and Surbiton aren't in London?

    Edit: Sutton & Cheam either?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,940
    edited November 2017

    HYUFD said:

    It's very hard to see how the Tories can recover in London.

    Make George Osborne Tory leader.

    He knows and understands Londoners.

    Con Gain Islington North if George Osborne CH is Tory leader.
    He knows how to get booed by Londoners....
    And three years later the Tories made gains in London.
    Not true, the Tories lost 4 seats to Labour in London at the 2015 general election even if they gained a net 24 overall.
    Are you telling me Twickenham and Surbiton aren't in London?
    They gained neither from Labour and even including those seats they won from the LDs in the capital still does not change the fact the Tories made a net loss of 1 seat in London at the 2015 general election.


  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,372
    rcs1000 said:

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Russell Simmons, the music mogul who co-founded Def Jam Records, has stepped down from his companies after being accused of sexual misconduct.

    There's one famous British business person whose name I keep expecting to see. I suspect it is only a matter of time.
    What about a famous rock star. Group, indeed, who may at some point have boasted of any number of sexual conquests, and for whom the idea of worrying about age was as foreign as I'm sure some of their groupies' nationalities?
    I could be wrong, but I suspect that most rock stars have to actively fight off the attentions of fans.

    It's one of the things that led me to a different career.
    You could have joined Radiohead, though....

  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,936
    Chukka still talking about the bus.

    Not realising that the fact his side was outwitted by it says an awful lot about the lack of positive reasons for staying....
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    It's very hard to see how the Tories can recover in London.

    Make George Osborne Tory leader.

    He knows and understands Londoners.

    Con Gain Islington North if George Osborne CH is Tory leader.
    He knows how to get booed by Londoners....
    And three years later the Tories made gains in London.
    Not true, the Tories lost 4 seats to Labour in London at the 2015 general election even if they gained a net 24 overall.
    Are you telling me Twickenham and Surbiton aren't in London?
    They gained neither from Labour and even including those seats still does not change the fact the Tories made a net loss of 2 seats in London at the 2015 general election.


    Wrong, the Tories did not make a net loss of 2 seats in London in 2015.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,940

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    It's very hard to see how the Tories can recover in London.

    Make George Osborne Tory leader.

    He knows and understands Londoners.

    Con Gain Islington North if George Osborne CH is Tory leader.
    He knows how to get booed by Londoners....
    And three years later the Tories made gains in London.
    Not true, the Tories lost 4 seats to Labour in London at the 2015 general election even if they gained a net 24 overall.
    Are you telling me Twickenham and Surbiton aren't in London?
    They gained neither from Labour and even including those seats still does not change the fact the Tories made a net loss of 2 seats in London at the 2015 general election.


    Wrong, the Tories did not make a net loss of 2 seats in London in 2015.
    Even looking beyond the 4 seats they lost to Labour and including the 3 seats they gained from the LDs in London the Tories still made a net loss of 1 seat in London.

    So the Tories did not make net gains in London in 2015, they made a net loss.
  • Options

    LAB NEC vote opens today.

    Already voted I think 2 Momentum with Lansmann too close to call to squeak 3rd vs Izzard.

    Do you see the Momentum takeover of Labour as good or bad ?

    Momentum Ltd, please.

  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,936

    LAB NEC vote opens today.

    Already voted I think 2 Momentum with Lansmann too close to call to squeak 3rd vs Izzard.

    Do you see the Momentum takeover of Labour as good or bad ?

    Momentum Ltd, please.

    Ha! Really? That is hilarious.
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    It's very hard to see how the Tories can recover in London.

    Make George Osborne Tory leader.

    He knows and understands Londoners.

    Con Gain Islington North if George Osborne CH is Tory leader.
    He knows how to get booed by Londoners....
    And three years later the Tories made gains in London.
    Not true, the Tories lost 4 seats to Labour in London at the 2015 general election even if they gained a net 24 overall.
    Are you telling me Twickenham and Surbiton aren't in London?
    They gained neither from Labour and even including those seats still does not change the fact the Tories made a net loss of 2 seats in London at the 2015 general election.


    Wrong, the Tories did not make a net loss of 2 seats in London in 2015.
    Even looking beyond the 4 seats they lost to Labour and including the 3 seats they gained from the LDs in London the Tories still made a net loss of 1 seat in London.

    So the Tories did not make net gains in London in 2015, they made a net loss.
    Did I say they made net gains? I just said gains after Osborne was booed.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,372
    If Mueller has flipped Flynn, will Kushner be next in the crosshairs ?
    https://edition.cnn.com/2017/11/29/politics/jared-kushner-special-counsel/index.html
  • Options
    Mortimer said:

    LAB NEC vote opens today.

    Already voted I think 2 Momentum with Lansmann too close to call to squeak 3rd vs Izzard.

    Do you see the Momentum takeover of Labour as good or bad ?

    Momentum Ltd, please.

    Ha! Really? That is hilarious.

    Sole proprieotor - Jon Lansman, Esq

    Main asset - a database of hundreds of thousands of Labour members and supporters, controlled entirely by Mr Lansman, who is answerable to nobody.

    And that’s why Momentum Ltd will soon control all Labour member seats on the NEC.

  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,940

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    It's very hard to see how the Tories can recover in London.

    Make George Osborne Tory leader.

    He knows and understands Londoners.

    Con Gain Islington North if George Osborne CH is Tory leader.
    He knows how to get booed by Londoners....
    And three years later the Tories made gains in London.
    Not true, the Tories lost 4 seats to Labour in London at the 2015 general election even if they gained a net 24 overall.
    Are you telling me Twickenham and Surbiton aren't in London?
    They gained neither from Labour and even including those seats still does not change the fact the Tories made a net loss of 2 seats in London at the 2015 general election.


    Wrong, the Tories did not make a net loss of 2 seats in London in 2015.
    Even looking beyond the 4 seats they lost to Labour and including the 3 seats they gained from the LDs in London the Tories still made a net loss of 1 seat in London.

    So the Tories did not make net gains in London in 2015, they made a net loss.
    Did I say they made net gains? I just said gains after Osborne was booed.
    They made a net loss in London 3 years after Osborne was booed there, if you really what to spin 3 gains from the LDs as a triumph in the capital while losing 4 to Labour in the city, be my guest
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    It's very hard to see how the Tories can recover in London.

    Make George Osborne Tory leader.

    He knows and understands Londoners.

    Con Gain Islington North if George Osborne CH is Tory leader.
    He knows how to get booed by Londoners....
    And three years later the Tories made gains in London.
    Not true, the Tories lost 4 seats to Labour in London at the 2015 general election even if they gained a net 24 overall.
    Are you telling me Twickenham and Surbiton aren't in London?
    They gained neither from Labour and even including those seats still does not change the fact the Tories made a net loss of 2 seats in London at the 2015 general election.


    Wrong, the Tories did not make a net loss of 2 seats in London in 2015.
    Even looking beyond the 4 seats they lost to Labour and including the 3 seats they gained from the LDs in London the Tories still made a net loss of 1 seat in London.

    So the Tories did not make net gains in London in 2015, they made a net loss.
    Did I say they made net gains? I just said gains after Osborne was booed.
    They made a net loss in London 3 years after Osborne was booed there, if you really what to spin 3 gains from the LDs as a triumph in the capital while losing 4 to Labour in the city, be my guest
    You're the guy who spins a 13 seat net loss as a triumph for Theresa May.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,936

    Mortimer said:

    LAB NEC vote opens today.

    Already voted I think 2 Momentum with Lansmann too close to call to squeak 3rd vs Izzard.

    Do you see the Momentum takeover of Labour as good or bad ?

    Momentum Ltd, please.

    Ha! Really? That is hilarious.

    Sole proprieotor - Jon Lansman, Esq

    Main asset - a database of hundreds of thousands of Labour members and supporters, controlled entirely by Mr Lansman, who is answerable to nobody.

    And that’s why Momentum Ltd will soon control all Labour member seats on the NEC.

    My old Grandad would turn in his grave. Such a sad position for the Labour movement to be in.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,940

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    It's very hard to see how the Tories can recover in London.

    Make George Osborne Tory leader.

    He knows and understands Londoners.

    Con Gain Islington North if George Osborne CH is Tory leader.
    He knows how to get booed by Londoners....
    And three years later the Tories made gains in London.
    Not true, the Tories lost 4 seats to Labour in London at the 2015 general election even if they gained a net 24 overall.
    Are you telling me Twickenham and Surbiton aren't in London?
    They gained neither from Labour and even including those seats still does not change the fact the Tories made a net loss of 2 seats in London at the 2015 general election.


    Wrong, the Tories did not make a net loss of 2 seats in London in 2015.
    Even looking beyond the 4 seats they lost to Labour and including the 3 seats they gained from the LDs in London the Tories still made a net loss of 1 seat in London.

    So the Tories did not make net gains in London in 2015, they made a net loss.
    Did I say they made net gains? I just said gains after Osborne was booed.
    They made a net loss in London 3 years after Osborne was booed there, if you really what to spin 3 gains from the LDs as a triumph in the capital while losing 4 to Labour in the city, be my guest
    You're the guy who spins a 13 seat net loss as a triumph for Theresa May.
    When have I ever said it was a triumph? I have said she won the second highest number of seats by any Tory leader in 25 years, which is correct.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    LAB NEC vote opens today.

    Already voted I think 2 Momentum with Lansmann too close to call to squeak 3rd vs Izzard.

    Do you see the Momentum takeover of Labour as good or bad ?

    Momentum Ltd, please.

    Ha! Really? That is hilarious.

    Sole proprieotor - Jon Lansman, Esq

    Main asset - a database of hundreds of thousands of Labour members and supporters, controlled entirely by Mr Lansman, who is answerable to nobody.

    And that’s why Momentum Ltd will soon control all Labour member seats on the NEC.

    My old Grandad would turn in his grave. Such a sad position for the Labour movement to be in.
    What would your new Grandad say?

    *gets coat*
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,936
    RobD said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    LAB NEC vote opens today.

    Already voted I think 2 Momentum with Lansmann too close to call to squeak 3rd vs Izzard.

    Do you see the Momentum takeover of Labour as good or bad ?

    Momentum Ltd, please.

    Ha! Really? That is hilarious.

    Sole proprieotor - Jon Lansman, Esq

    Main asset - a database of hundreds of thousands of Labour members and supporters, controlled entirely by Mr Lansman, who is answerable to nobody.

    And that’s why Momentum Ltd will soon control all Labour member seats on the NEC.

    My old Grandad would turn in his grave. Such a sad position for the Labour movement to be in.
    What would your new Grandad say?

    *gets coat*
    :)

    A proud Labour man, he worked all his life despite chronic illness. He died at 47, before I was born.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,020
    Mortimer said:

    Chukka still talking about the bus.

    Not realising that the fact his side was outwitted by it says an awful lot about the lack of positive reasons for staying....

    Take back control of the bus here:

    https://advisa.se/en/research/brexit-bus/
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,320

    I thought TM was excellent on Trump tweets today.

    Good for her. After a good PMQ s last week she has had her best week for a long time.

    You're in a very narrow slice of the Venn Diagram reserved for people who have voted for the Momentum slate and praised Tezzie in the same day!
    I'm another!
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,320



    Care for a small wager £20 from me says JL comes bottom of Momentum slate. You get 1st and no bet if he is 2nd on slate?

    I have voted for all 3 BTW

    No, I think you're probably right - have seen some other straws in the wind on similar lines. But I think the Progress slate will be further back this time, for the reasons nielh gives.
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,940
    Westway (Tandridge) result:

    LDEM: 53.5% (+17.5)
    CON: 26.5% (-2.5)
    LAB: 13.1% (-2.8)
    UKIP: 6.9% (-12.2)

    Liberal Democrat HOLD.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,936

    Mortimer said:

    Chukka still talking about the bus.

    Not realising that the fact his side was outwitted by it says an awful lot about the lack of positive reasons for staying....

    Take back control of the bus here:

    https://advisa.se/en/research/brexit-bus/
    81 seconds....
  • Options
    sladeslade Posts: 1,929
    Astonishing result in Gosport. Lib Dems gain seat from Labour with over 50% swing.
  • Options
    Yellow Fever.

    Liberal Democrat GAIN North (Maidstone) from Conservative.

    Bridgemary North (Gosport) result:

    LDEM: 57.9% (+57.9)
    LAB: 22.9% (-49.0)
    CON: 19.2% (-8.9)

    Liberal Democrat GAIN from Labour.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,936

    Yellow Fever.

    Liberal Democrat GAIN North (Maidstone) from Conservative.

    Bridgemary North (Gosport) result:

    LDEM: 57.9% (+57.9)
    LAB: 22.9% (-49.0)
    CON: 19.2% (-8.9)

    Liberal Democrat GAIN from Labour.

    We see this every autumn, don't we? I'd love to see a seasonally adjusted tally of LD performance.
  • Options
    DruttDrutt Posts: 1,093

    Mortimer said:

    Chukka still talking about the bus.

    Not realising that the fact his side was outwitted by it says an awful lot about the lack of positive reasons for staying....

    Take back control of the bus here:

    https://advisa.se/en/research/brexit-bus/
    Brexit bus game? Completed it. 53 secs to beat...
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,625
    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    The other factor is that there are a lot of EU nationals in Richmond Park who were not allowed to vote in the General but who can vote in the Local. This is their last chance to make their voice heard. That's what I'm saying on the doorstep.

    Great. Stop Brexit by, er, getting your potholes fixed.....
    :) LibDems taking the Council will help in the General - and it makes people feel better that they are doing something to protest against Brexit, even if it is a bit remote. What else do they have but their vote?
    Punishing the Tories for Brexit will not stop it, but it may make the Tories stop and think a little more about the damage that they inflict. Just as the LDs are still being punished for the 2010 coalition, the Brexit punishment will carry on.
    Th interesting thing is that even after finding something to rail against again, the LDs are still making no inroads nationally. As far as I can see, they're going backwards with a leader who has never been so quiet...
    Cable was the wrong choice, and a coronation was worse.
    Do you think it's just the leader?

    Locally the LD desire seems to have gone... Do LDs know what they stand for now?
    Labour might well replace them in many areas as the non tory option as the former are so much more organised and passionate.
  • Options
    sladeslade Posts: 1,929
    The Lib Dems seem to have got over 50% of the vote in all the local elections so far declared.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    edited November 2017
    slade said:

    The Lib Dems seem to have got over 50% of the vote in all the local elections so far declared.

    *preparation for government intensifies*
  • Options
    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    Mortimer said:

    RobD said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    LAB NEC vote opens today.

    Already voted I think 2 Momentum with Lansmann too close to call to squeak 3rd vs Izzard.

    Do you see the Momentum takeover of Labour as good or bad ?

    Momentum Ltd, please.

    Ha! Really? That is hilarious.

    Sole proprieotor - Jon Lansman, Esq

    Main asset - a database of hundreds of thousands of Labour members and supporters, controlled entirely by Mr Lansman, who is answerable to nobody.

    And that’s why Momentum Ltd will soon control all Labour member seats on the NEC.

    My old Grandad would turn in his grave. Such a sad position for the Labour movement to be in.
    What would your new Grandad say?

    *gets coat*
    :)

    A proud Labour man, he worked all his life despite chronic illness. He died at 47, before I was born.
    My dad died young when I was two. It's a loss but it takes time to realise it.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Why was the Labour vote down by 49% in Gosport?
  • Options
    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    Drutt said:

    Mortimer said:

    Chukka still talking about the bus.

    Not realising that the fact his side was outwitted by it says an awful lot about the lack of positive reasons for staying....

    Take back control of the bus here:

    https://advisa.se/en/research/brexit-bus/
    Brexit bus game? Completed it. 53 secs to beat...
    I completed it (closed it) in 2 secs- done and dusted.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,940
    Torrington (Torridge) result:

    LDEM: 60.2% (+60.2)
    IND: 15.5% (+15.5)
    CON: 13.6% (-6.0)
    GRN: 6.5% (-15.9)
    UKIP: 4.2% (-16.8)

    Liberal Democrat GAIN from UKIP.

    No (other) Ind (-24.6) and Lab (-12.4) as prev.

    Clean sweep!

    Winning here!
  • Options
    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    dixiedean said:

    Torrington (Torridge) result:

    LDEM: 60.2% (+60.2)
    IND: 15.5% (+15.5)
    CON: 13.6% (-6.0)
    GRN: 6.5% (-15.9)
    UKIP: 4.2% (-16.8)

    Liberal Democrat GAIN from UKIP.

    No (other) Ind (-24.6) and Lab (-12.4) as prev.

    Clean sweep!

    Winning here!

    What about Sooty?
  • Options
    AndyJS said:

    Why was the Labour vote down by 49% in Gosport?

    Never been a LD candidate there before. Latent vote?
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,940
    North (Maidstone) result:

    LDEM: 51.4% (+20.0)
    CON: 26.0% (-6.0)
    LAB: 19.3% (+8.0)
    GRN: 3.4% (-2.1)

    Liberal Democrat GAIN from Conservative.

    No UKIP (-19.9) as prev.

    A good night for LD's...
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    DadgeDadge Posts: 2,038
    An impressive night for the LibDems. Not to be overdramatic (!) I wonder if tonight signals the beginning of Britain's path towards rejoining the EU - before we've even left it.

    #notthepartyofbrexit
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    Dadge said:

    An impressive night for the LibDems. Not to be overdramatic (!) I wonder if tonight signals the beginning of Britain's path towards rejoining the EU - before we've even left it.

    #notthepartyofbrexit

    Not overdramatic at all! ;)
  • Options
    Dadge said:

    An impressive night for the LibDems. Not to be overdramatic (!) I wonder if tonight signals the beginning of Britain's path towards rejoining the EU - before we've even left it.

    #notthepartyofbrexit

    No, it signals that the Lib Dems can still get worked up for second-tier local by-elections on a cold, dark, wet November night.

    The Lib Dems had a very good by-election record in the first four months of this year. Fat lot of good it did them when it mattered either in May or June.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Richard Dawkins likes the Scots and the Irish – but presumably not the Scots Irish who put Trump in the White House.

    https://twitter.com/RichardDawkins/status/936177718642823168
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,940
    Dadge said:

    An impressive night for the LibDems. Not to be overdramatic (!) I wonder if tonight signals the beginning of Britain's path towards rejoining the EU - before we've even left it.

    #notthepartyofbrexit

    They need to win parliamentary seats for that, not votes won off the back of NIMBYISM and opposing local plans
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,920
    I have correctly called the direction and magnitude of LibDem seat changes three elections in a row (and been counter-consensus in each case).

    My personal view is that the LDs have historically prospered by:

    (a) Exploiting a strongly felt minority view (opposing the Iraq war, for instance)
    (b) Being seen as "better than the other lot" (tactical votes)
    (c) Being vague on policies (all things to all people)

    In 2015, they lost all of these. In 2017, they got a bit of tactical vote support, and did well where their minority view (EUphilia) was strong. I think they would have done even better had Conservative voters not been so fearful of Corbyn, and Labour voters loathed May less. It is no coincidence, to me, that the LibDems made the most progress when the two main parties were actually closest in political outlook - fear of your opponent is a great motivator for keeping people on side.

    It is entirely possible that the stars align again, and cause a LibDem revival. It is also entirely possible they do not. I suspect that any long-term LibDem revival will be preceded by improved local election performances (and it's notable that although they lost seats in the local elections in 2017, it was actually on a pretty big increase in their vote).

    Council by-elections are unlikely to tell us anything about national support for the LibDems. What they do tell us, however, is the extent to which the party machine (knocking on doors, delivering leaflets, etc.) is working.

    I will be intrigued to see how the LDs do in the 2018 local elections. I suspect, without any real evidence, that they'll do well in Remainia, and I think they should be looking for 70-100 gains across the country. This would, of course, be the best performance for the LDs - in terms of gains - for a decade. But it would still leave them a long, long way from their high watermark.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    kle4 said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    The other factor is that there are a lot of EU nationals in Richmond Park who were not allowed to vote in the General but who can vote in the Local. This is their last chance to make their voice heard. That's what I'm saying on the doorstep.

    Great. Stop Brexit by, er, getting your potholes fixed.....
    :) LibDems taking the Council will help in the General - and it makes people feel better that they are doing something to protest against Brexit, even if it is a bit remote. What else do they have but their vote?
    Punishing the Tories for Brexit will not stop it, but it may make the Tories stop and think a little more about the damage that they inflict. Just as the LDs are still being punished for the 2010 coalition, the Brexit punishment will carry on.
    Th interesting thing is that even after finding something to rail against again, the LDs are still making no inroads nationally. As far as I can see, they're going backwards with a leader who has never been so quiet...
    Cable was the wrong choice, and a coronation was worse.
    Do you think it's just the leader?

    Locally the LD desire seems to have gone... Do LDs know what they stand for now?
    Labour might well replace them in many areas as the non tory option as the former are so much more organised and passionate.
    LDs will do well in locals, as per tonight. It is on the national stage that we are not able to get a
    ttention.

    That Boulton chap on #bbcqt is not going to revive the kippers.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,153
    Today I had to spend three hours dealing with four different mobile phone companies to:-

    1. Cancel a contract - 02
    2. Set up a new contract for daughter’s phone - Three
    3. Find out details of contract - Carphone Warehouse
    4. Return phone for repair under warranty - Vodafone
    5. Return another repaired phone because the repair had caused another problem which was not there before - Vodafone.

    It was a teeth-clenching nightmare. Mobile phone companies have customer service which is utterly shite. It makes banks look competent.

    None of them - for all their logos and brand colours and shiny shops - have the first clue as to what the customer experience is like. None of them seem to have any idea that a customer wants to speak to a helpful intelligent human being with good clear English not jab at buttons trying to find the right option and have some robot go “Did you mean X?” When you clearly said “Y”. None of them seem to realise that you do not want to listen to some tinny music for 20 minutes or be in a shop with music blaring while you try to make sense of what someone is telling you. None of them seem to realise that being asked the same sodding question 5 times in the same call is going to lead to the customer feeling a bit stressed and that being told she is sounding stressed does not help one little bit.

    At this precise moment I would happily vote for Corbyn to nationalise the lot and we go back to black phones in the hall.

    Grrr.......
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,372
    Cyclefree said:

    Today I had to spend three hours dealing with four different mobile phone companies to:-

    1. Cancel a contract - 02
    2. Set up a new contract for daughter’s phone - Three
    3. Find out details of contract - Carphone Warehouse
    4. Return phone for repair under warranty - Vodafone
    5. Return another repaired phone because the repair had caused another problem which was not there before - Vodafone.

    It was a teeth-clenching nightmare. Mobile phone companies have customer service which is utterly shite. It makes banks look competent.

    None of them - for all their logos and brand colours and shiny shops - have the first clue as to what the customer experience is like. None of them seem to have any idea that a customer wants to speak to a helpful intelligent human being with good clear English not jab at buttons trying to find the right option and have some robot go “Did you mean X?” When you clearly said “Y”. None of them seem to realise that you do not want to listen to some tinny music for 20 minutes or be in a shop with music blaring while you try to make sense of what someone is telling you. None of them seem to realise that being asked the same sodding question 5 times in the same call is going to lead to the customer feeling a bit stressed and that being told she is sounding stressed does not help one little bit.

    At this precise moment I would happily vote for Corbyn to nationalise the lot and we go back to black phones in the hall.

    Grrr.......

    I'm old enough to remember my parents dealing with the GPO for their telephone. I'm not convinced the customer experience was any less frustrating.

    And the rate of change was glacial.

  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,625
    Dadge said:

    An impressive night for the LibDems. Not to be overdramatic (!) I wonder if tonight signals the beginning of Britain's path towards rejoining the EU - before we've even left it.

    #notthepartyofbrexit

    No - or they would have done better in June.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Cyclefree said:

    Today I had to spend three hours dealing with four different mobile phone companies to:-

    1. Cancel a contract - 02
    2. Set up a new contract for daughter’s phone - Three
    3. Find out details of contract - Carphone Warehouse
    4. Return phone for repair under warranty - Vodafone
    5. Return another repaired phone because the repair had caused another problem which was not there before - Vodafone.

    It was a teeth-clenching nightmare. Mobile phone companies have customer service which is utterly shite. It makes banks look competent.

    None of them - for all their logos and brand colours and shiny shops - have the first clue as to what the customer experience is like. None of them seem to have any idea that a customer wants to speak to a helpful intelligent human being with good clear English not jab at buttons trying to find the right option and have some robot go “Did you mean X?” When you clearly said “Y”. None of them seem to realise that you do not want to listen to some tinny music for 20 minutes or be in a shop with music blaring while you try to make sense of what someone is telling you. None of them seem to realise that being asked the same sodding question 5 times in the same call is going to lead to the customer feeling a bit stressed and that being told she is sounding stressed does not help one little bit.

    At this precise moment I would happily vote for Corbyn to nationalise the lot and we go back to black phones in the hall.

    Grrr.......

    I wish Twitter, Facebook and smartphones had never been invented. Life was far better before they existed. Talking to people on the phone in a house used to be a nice experience most of the time.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,619
    What do you guys think of this?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b09g0j1d/turning-points-unscripted-reflections-by-steve-richards-6-2017-election

    It's interesting by virtue of the subject matter, but the extempore delivery doesn't really work and it's a bit shallow.
  • Options
    Ally_BAlly_B Posts: 185
    kle4 said:

    Dadge said:

    An impressive night for the LibDems. Not to be overdramatic (!) I wonder if tonight signals the beginning of Britain's path towards rejoining the EU - before we've even left it.
    #notthepartyofbrexit

    No - or they would have done better in June.
    Yes - the scales are falling from peoples eyes since the last election. The public can see the Tory party is rent from top to bottom and unfit to govern and there is no Brexit deal that will put us in a good place. We have been lied to by those in power.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,619
    AndyJS said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Today I had to spend three hours dealing with four different mobile phone companies to:-

    1. Cancel a contract - 02
    2. Set up a new contract for daughter’s phone - Three
    3. Find out details of contract - Carphone Warehouse
    4. Return phone for repair under warranty - Vodafone
    5. Return another repaired phone because the repair had caused another problem which was not there before - Vodafone.

    It was a teeth-clenching nightmare. Mobile phone companies have customer service which is utterly shite. It makes banks look competent.

    None of them - for all their logos and brand colours and shiny shops - have the first clue as to what the customer experience is like. None of them seem to have any idea that a customer wants to speak to a helpful intelligent human being with good clear English not jab at buttons trying to find the right option and have some robot go “Did you mean X?” When you clearly said “Y”. None of them seem to realise that you do not want to listen to some tinny music for 20 minutes or be in a shop with music blaring while you try to make sense of what someone is telling you. None of them seem to realise that being asked the same sodding question 5 times in the same call is going to lead to the customer feeling a bit stressed and that being told she is sounding stressed does not help one little bit.

    At this precise moment I would happily vote for Corbyn to nationalise the lot and we go back to black phones in the hall.

    Grrr.......

    I wish Twitter, Facebook and smartphones had never been invented. Life was far better before they existed. Talking to people on the phone in a house used to be a nice experience most of the time.
    ...he said on an internet forum

    :)
  • Options
    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    HYUFD said:

    Dadge said:

    An impressive night for the LibDems. Not to be overdramatic (!) I wonder if tonight signals the beginning of Britain's path towards rejoining the EU - before we've even left it.

    #notthepartyofbrexit

    They need to win parliamentary seats for that, not votes won off the back of NIMBYISM and opposing local plans
    :+1:
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,222
    AndyJS said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Today I had to spend three hours dealing with four different mobile phone companies to:-

    1. Cancel a contract - 02
    2. Set up a new contract for daughter’s phone - Three
    3. Find out details of contract - Carphone Warehouse
    4. Return phone for repair under warranty - Vodafone
    5. Return another repaired phone because the repair had caused another problem which was not there before - Vodafone.

    It was a teeth-clenching nightmare. Mobile phone companies have customer service which is utterly shite. It makes banks look competent.

    None of them - for all their logos and brand colours and shiny shops - have the first clue as to what the customer experience is like. None of them seem to have any idea that a customer wants to speak to a helpful intelligent human being with good clear English not jab at buttons trying to find the right option and have some robot go “Did you mean X?” When you clearly said “Y”. None of them seem to realise that you do not want to listen to some tinny music for 20 minutes or be in a shop with music blaring while you try to make sense of what someone is telling you. None of them seem to realise that being asked the same sodding question 5 times in the same call is going to lead to the customer feeling a bit stressed and that being told she is sounding stressed does not help one little bit.

    At this precise moment I would happily vote for Corbyn to nationalise the lot and we go back to black phones in the hall.

    Grrr.......

    I wish Twitter, Facebook and smartphones had never been invented. Life was far better before they existed. Talking to people on the phone in a house used to be a nice experience most of the time.
    As was going to some far flung part of the world and finding your way about with a map and by talking to local people. And feeling a long way from home, unable to remain in 24/7 (or indeed barely any) contact with anyone at home.

    Also being out of the office at a meeting or event that finished unexpectedly early, and having no chance of being rumbled or disturbed by any prospect of contact from work,
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,222

    AndyJS said:

    Why was the Labour vote down by 49% in Gosport?

    Never been a LD candidate there before. Latent vote?
    It won't be "never", as once upon a time the liberals were very strong in Gosport, going back some years now. It all fell apart due to divisions in the local party. It appears they have got their act together again, at least in this ward.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,222

    New Thread

    about revolting Northern Ireland
This discussion has been closed.