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  • Arlene Foster's position is curious. The DUP has a strong position. But within her party, she now does not. She is unusually beholden to the views of others.

    Presumably whatever she says now will have been carefully brokered with other decision-makers in the party.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    IFF also stands for Identification Friend of Foe - a computer system designed to stop aircraft from firing on friendly troops. Has terrible consequences when it goes wrong with mayhem and death spread to your own side and position opened up for the enemy to exploit.

    This has no symbolism for TSE himself at all, of course.

    Very unnerving, apparently, for our helicopter pilots in the Falklands as they passed by our own ships.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,707
    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    Being part of the EU Customs Union without being part of the EU sounds like a nonsense to me.

    There is likely to be a new bilateral customs union between the UK and the EU - without freedom of movement a la Canada and the EU.
    A FTA which ends free movement is what most voters want, minus diehard Remainers and diehard Leavers.
    No, unless you accept diehard Remainers and diehard Leavers are the majority:

    Which of the following do you prefer?
    A ''hard'' Brexit, involving leaving the EU single market and customs union 38.4%
    A ''soft'' Brexit,
    No, what most voters want is a Canada style FTA that ends free movement, not a Norway style soft Brexit which leaves free movement in place or a hard Brexit that goes straight to WTO terms.

    50% thing a Canada style FTA would be good for the UK, 35% thing a Norway style single market would be good for the UK, 32% think hard Brexit would be good for the UK.
    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/08/18/majority-people-think-freedom-movement-fair-price-/
    You didn't read the figures I posted. MOST voters do NOT want a Canada style FTA. A large minority does.
    Your figures did not even mention a Canada style FTA. Mine did and a majority supported it, a majority opposed single market membership and free movement or hard Brexit and WTO terms.
    A Canada style FTA is included within 'A ''hard'' Brexit, involving leaving the EU single t you keep posting isn't supported by the numbers.
    No it is not. The only option you have in your poll was hard Brexit ie not even specifically allowing for a FTA. My poll gave a FTA that ended free movement upport.
    You are incorrect when you say the first option in the Survation poll doesn't include a Canada style FTA. The Yougov poll was from just after the referendum and is out of date. The Survation poll is from this week.
    You are wrong. The Survation poll just mentioned leaving the single market and customs union, it did not mention a Canada style FTA AT ALL unlike the poll I linked to from Yougov. The hard Brexit mentioned instead could equally have included WTO terms.

    Given the latest Survation EU referendum numbers are EXACTLY the same as their final EU referendum poll numbers there has been zero change in public opinion on Brexit since last June making the Yougov numbers as accurate as a year ago and even more so than the Survation numbers as they actually include the Canada style FTA we are heading for.
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548
    So, with your ever so clever use of iff, you're saying that the only way the chances of a 2018GE can be increased is if Tony Conelly's tweets are true?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,542

    Overall this is a pretty pragmatic position/deal by the EU27/Ireland and the UK.

    Bodes well for the rest of the wider deal.

    The Irish border was always going to require some constructive - if not downright weird and whacky - thinking to arrive at a settlement. I still expect it will require elements of a "temporary" nature - that everybody understands nobody will ever quite get round to finalising.....
    Like Brexit itself!
  • FF43 said:

    Overall this is a pretty pragmatic position/deal by the EU27/Ireland and the UK.

    Bodes well for the rest of the wider deal.

    The UK government needs to sell agreement as sensible harmonisation rather than abject concession. The two aren't necessarily distinct. If you have only one good choice, is it really surrender if you choose it?

    It’s good news. No deal is now almost totally dead. The UK is beginning to understand its position. We will end up with a decent Brexit. It won’t be much good, but it will not be catastrophic.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,707
    edited December 2017
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    Being part of the EU Customs Union without being part of the EU sounds like a nonsense to me.

    There is likely to be a new bilateral customs union between the UK and the EU - without freedom of movement a la Canada and the EU.
    rs.
    No, unless you accept diehard Remainers and diehard Leavers are the majority:

    Which of the following do you prefer?
    A ''hard'' Brexit, involving leaving the EU single market and customs union 38.4%
    A ''soft'' Brexit,
    No, what most voters want is a Canada style FTA that ends free movement, not a Norway style soft Brexit which leaves free movement in place or a hard Brexit that goes straight to WTO terms.

    50% thing a Canada style FTA would be good for the UK, 35% thing a Norway style single market would be good for the UK, 32% think hard Brexit would be good for the UK.
    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/08/18/majority-people-think-freedom-movement-fair-price-/
    You didn't read the figures I posted. MOST voters do NOT want a Canada style FTA. A large minority does.
    Your figures did not even mention a Canada style FTA. Mine did and a majority supported it, a majority opposed single market membership and free movement or hard Brexit and WTO terms.
    A Canada style FTA is included within 'A ''hard'' Brexit, ou keep posting isn't supported by the numbers.
    No it is not. The only option you have in your poll was hard Brexit ie not even specifically allowing for a FTA. pport.
    Arguing about polling data about hypothetical outcomes is missing the point. What will matter is whether people will like it when they see it. Somehow I think Mr HY is in for a rude awakening.
    They will certainly like a FTA that ends free movement better than staying in the single market and leaving free movement in place or going to WTO terms.
    I will go out on a limb and say that, wherever we end up starting from where we are now, people won't like it. Which is bad news for the Tories, whatever.
    Well given Corbyn backs leaving the single market to end free movement and wants a FTA that means only the LDs and UKIP can effectively oppose it arguing for permanent single market membership or hard Brexit respectively.
  • Here comes Arlene.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559

    someone else tweeting without knowing the detail

    Nicola McTrump
    I read that as Nicola McTurnip.....
    wit till Alex Farage gives his take on it
  • A good time to buy property in Belfast!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    Being part of the EU Customs Union without being part of the EU sounds like a nonsense to me.

    There is likely to be a new bilateral customs union between the UK and the EU - without freedom of movement a la Canada and the EU.
    rs.
    No, unless you accept diehard Remainers and diehard Leavers are the majority:

    Which of the following do you prefer?
    A ''hard'' Brexit, involving leaving the EU single market and customs union 38.4%
    A ''soft'' Brexit,
    No, what most voters want is a Canada style FTA that ends free movement, not a Norway style soft Brexit which leaves free movement in place or a hard Brexit that goes straight to WTO terms.

    50% thing a Canada style FTA would be good for the UK, 35% thing a Norway style single market would be good for the UK, 32% think hard Brexit would be good for the UK.
    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/08/18/majority-people-think-freedom-movement-fair-price-/
    You didn't read the figures I posted. MOST voters do NOT want a Canada style FTA. A large minority does.
    Your figures did not even mention a Canada style FTA. Mine did and a majority supported it, a majority opposed single market membership and free movement or hard Brexit and WTO terms.
    A Canada style FTA is included within 'A ''hard'' Brexit, ou keep posting isn't supported by the numbers.
    No it is not. The only option you have in your poll was hard Brexit ie not even specifically allowing for a FTA. pport.
    Arguing about polling data about hypothetical outcomes is missing the point. What will matter is whether people will like it when they see it. Somehow I think Mr HY is in for a rude awakening.
    They will certainly like a FTA that ends free movement better than staying in the single market and leaving free movement in place or going to WTO terms.
    I will go out on a limb and say that, wherever we end up starting from where we are now, people won't like it. Which is bad news for the Tories, whatever.
    Well given Corbyn backs leaving the single market to end free movement and wants a FTA that means only the LDs and UKIP can effectively oppose it arguing for permanent single market membership or hard Brexit respectively.
    You are going to be so disappointed with how things pan out.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,786

    Here comes Arlene.

    Last seen singing "All I want for Christmas is EU".

    http://www.thejournal.ie/arlene-foster-3731312-Dec2017/
  • RoyalBlue said:

    What an idiot. Somebody should tell her that Scotland is part of Great Britain, which happens to be an island.
    She is quite happy to have a hard border.

    As a usual lurking remainer may i just say mwa ha haa ha ha

    best day for ages.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559

    A good time to buy property in Belfast!

    no

    that's was 1997
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,707
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    Being part of the EU Customs Union without being part of the EU sounds like a nonsense to me.

    There is likely to be a new bilateral customs union between the UK and the EU - without freedom of movement a la Canada and the EU.
    rs.
    No, unless you accept diehard Remainers and diehard Leavers are the majority:

    Which of the following do you prefer?
    A ''hard'' Brexit, involving leaving the EU single market and customs union 38.4%
    A ''soft'' Brexit,
    No, what most voters want is a Canada style FTA that ends free movement, not -think-freedom-movement-fair-price-/
    You didn't read the figures I posted. MOST voters do NOT want a Canada style FTA. A large minority does.
    Your figures did not even mention a Canada style FTA. Mine did and a majority supported it, a majority opposed single market membership and free movement or hard Brexit and WTO terms.
    A Canada style FTA is included within 'A ''hard'' Brexit, ou keep posting isn't supported by the numbers.
    No it is not. The only option you have in your poll was hard Brexit ie not even specifically allowing for a FTA. pport.
    Arguing about polling data about hypothetical outcomes is missing the point. What will matter is whether people will like it when they see it. Somehow I think Mr HY is in for a rude awakening.
    They will certainly like a FTA that ends free movement better than staying in the single market and leaving free movement in place or going to WTO terms.
    I will go out on a limb and say that, wherever we end up starting from where we are now, people won't like it. Which is bad news for the Tories, whatever.
    Well given Corbyn backs leaving the single market to end free movement spectively.
    You are going to be so disappointed with how things pan out.
    I voted Remain, a FTA that ends free movement is fine by me and even fine by Labour based on its official position, only diehard Remainers backed by the LDs and diehard Leavers backed by UKIP will oppose it
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,545
    Have never enjoyed Brexit as much as I have this morning.

    Had Remain won 52:48 all the BS from the Leave campaign would have stood in posterity, noble independence dreams etc. But every last contradiction is having to face reality and falling away bit by bit. The contortions of leavers who have no-where else to travel are great entertainment if nothing else. (I can't agree with HFUYD that any more backsliding will lead people to UKIP - they are busted and there's no way back from their pledges dissolving on contact with reality.)

    It's a bit like when Trump won the election promising to drain the swamp then appointed executives cronies and family members to every position going.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,786
    dr_spyn said:
    May is playing a blinder. We're now in a position where 'no deal' = no UK, and 'deal' = no Brexit.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,839

    @BethRigby: BREAK; Senior govt source tells me it still “too close to call” re Ireland border but draft wording in and govt “quietly confident it will be resolved” by close of play. Told #DUP on board


    Did Arlene sound like the DUP was on board ?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559

    FF43 said:

    Overall this is a pretty pragmatic position/deal by the EU27/Ireland and the UK.

    Bodes well for the rest of the wider deal.

    The UK government needs to sell agreement as sensible harmonisation rather than abject concession. The two aren't necessarily distinct. If you have only one good choice, is it really surrender if you choose it?

    It’s good news. No deal is now almost totally dead. The UK is beginning to understand its position. We will end up with a decent Brexit. It won’t be much good, but it will not be catastrophic.

    we are heading for a soft Brexit, which sort of makes most of the last year on PB a waste of pixels accentuated only by stunning tedium
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @SkyNewsBreak: DUP leader Arlene Foster says her party will "not accept any form of regulatory divergence" in Ireland after Brexit and the Irish government is "clearly seeking to unilaterally change the Belfast agreement"
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,952
    Not watching - has Arlene "done a Mugabe" - and pulled out a different speech to the one she was expected to deliver?
  • Pulpstar said:

    @BethRigby: BREAK; Senior govt source tells me it still “too close to call” re Ireland border but draft wording in and govt “quietly confident it will be resolved” by close of play. Told #DUP on board

    Did Arlene sound like the DUP was on board ?

    "On board" would almost certainly mean the DUP allowed to speak out against it.

    So difficult to tell until parliamentary votes. Not "on board" = supply and confidence ends.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    Being part of the EU Customs Union without being part of the EU sounds like a nonsense to me.

    There is likely to be a new bilateral customs union between the UK and the EU - without freedom of movement a la Canada and the EU.
    rs.
    No, unless you accept diehard Remainers and diehard Leavers are the majority:

    Which of the following do you prefer?
    A ''hard'' Brexit, involving leaving the EU single market and customs union 38.4%
    A ''soft'' Brexit,
    No, what most voters want is a Canada style FTA that ends free movement, not -think-freedom-movement-fair-price-/
    You didn't read the figures I posted. MOST voters do NOT want a Canada style FTA. A large minority does.
    Your figures did not even mention a Canada style FTA. Mine did and a majority supported it, a majority opposed single market membership and free movement or hard Brexit and WTO terms.
    A Canada style FTA is included within 'A ''hard'' Brexit, ou keep posting isn't supported by the numbers.
    No it is not. The only option you have in your poll was hard Brexit ie not even specifically allowing for a FTA. pport.
    Arguing about polling data about hypothetical outcomes is missing the point. What will matter is whether people will like it when they see it. Somehow I think Mr HY is in for a rude awakening.
    They will certainly like a FTA that ends free movement better than staying in the single market and leaving free movement in place or going to WTO terms.
    I will go out on a limb and say that, wherever we end up starting from where we are now, people won't like it. Which is bad news for the Tories, whatever.
    Well given Corbyn backs leaving the single market to end free movement spectively.
    You are going to be so disappointed with how things pan out.
    I voted Remain, a FTA that ends free movement is fine by me and even fine by Labour based on its official position, only diehard Remainers backed by the LDs and diehard Leavers backed by UKIP will oppose it
    Be patient. You are going to be disappointed.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,952

    FF43 said:

    Overall this is a pretty pragmatic position/deal by the EU27/Ireland and the UK.

    Bodes well for the rest of the wider deal.

    The UK government needs to sell agreement as sensible harmonisation rather than abject concession. The two aren't necessarily distinct. If you have only one good choice, is it really surrender if you choose it?

    It’s good news. No deal is now almost totally dead. The UK is beginning to understand its position. We will end up with a decent Brexit. It won’t be much good, but it will not be catastrophic.

    we are heading for a soft Brexit, which sort of makes most of the last year on PB a waste of pixels accentuated only by stunning tedium
    And rudeness.... You forgot lots and lots of rudeness.
  • A good time to buy property in Belfast!

    no

    that's was 1997
    It would have been a good idea to have sold in 2008, mind.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559

    FF43 said:

    Overall this is a pretty pragmatic position/deal by the EU27/Ireland and the UK.

    Bodes well for the rest of the wider deal.

    The UK government needs to sell agreement as sensible harmonisation rather than abject concession. The two aren't necessarily distinct. If you have only one good choice, is it really surrender if you choose it?

    It’s good news. No deal is now almost totally dead. The UK is beginning to understand its position. We will end up with a decent Brexit. It won’t be much good, but it will not be catastrophic.

    we are heading for a soft Brexit, which sort of makes most of the last year on PB a waste of pixels accentuated only by stunning tedium
    And rudeness.... You forgot lots and lots of rudeness.
    well to be fair, when I got fed up with the spin I was pretty rude myself
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,279
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,839
    Looks like it's going from

    Deal or No Deal
    to
    Call My Bluff

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoiKoIZ7wwo
  • Scott_P said:

    @SkyNewsBreak: DUP leader Arlene Foster says her party will "not accept any form of regulatory divergence" in Ireland after Brexit and the Irish government is "clearly seeking to unilaterally change the Belfast agreement"

    Hmm. That's rather put the kibosh on it. Is this just rhetoric or will Theresa and DD be instructed to go back and try again?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,956
    edited December 2017
    If the DUP are going to try and torpedo the deal it is time for the Lib Dems and Labour to support the government to ensure we have a decent Brexit deal.
  • Hopefully after the posturing on all sides has been duly completed, we'll now be able to get down to discussions on what the future EU-UK relationship will be, and then we can actually start discussing the Irish border arrangements.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,707
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    Being part of the EU Customs Union without being part of the EU sounds like a nonsense to me.

    There is likely to be a new bilateral customs union between the UK and the EU - without freedom of movement a la Canada and the EU.
    rs.
    No, unless you accept diehard Remainers and diehard Leavers are the majority:

    Which of the following do you prefer?
    A ''hard'' Brexit, involving leaving the EU single market and customs union 38.4%
    A ''soft'' Brexit,
    No, what most voters want is a Canada style FTA that ends free movement, not -think-freedom-movement-fair-price-/
    You didn't read the figures I posted. MOST voters do NOT want a Canada style FTA. A large minority does.
    Your figures did not even mention a Canada style FTA. Mine did and a majority supported it, a majority opposed single market membership and free movement or hard Brexit and WTO terms.
    A Canada style FTA is included within 'A ''hard'' Brexit, ou keep posting isn't supported by the numbers.
    No it is not. The only option you have in your poll was hard Brexit ie not even specifically allowing for a FTA. pport.
    Arguing about polling data about hypothetical outcomes is missing the point. What will matter is whether people will like it when they see it. Somehow I think Mr HY is in for a rude awakening.
    They will certainly like a FTA that ends free movement better than staying in the single market and leaving free movement in place or going to WTO terms.
    I will go out on a limb a Tories, whatever.
    Well given Corbyn backs leaving the single market to end free movement spectively.
    You are going to be so disappointed with how things pan out.
    I voted Remain, a FTA that ends free movement is fine by me and even fine by Labour based on its official position, only diehard Remainers backed by the LDs and diehard Leavers backed by UKIP will oppose it
    Be patient. You are going to be disappointed.
    On what grounds? I am not disappointed, if I was a diehard Remainer or diehard Leaver I would be disappointed but I am neither.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,839

    Hopefully after the posturing on all sides has been duly completed, we'll now be able to get down to discussions on what the future EU-UK relationship will be, and then we can actually start discussing the Irish border arrangements.

    Is this DUP posturing for their base, or are they serious about the implied threat ?
  • If the DUP are going to try and torpedo the deal it is time for the Lib Dems and Labour to support the government to ensure we have a decent Brexit deal.

    Good luck with that one.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited December 2017
    Pulpstar said:

    Hopefully after the posturing on all sides has been duly completed, we'll now be able to get down to discussions on what the future EU-UK relationship will be, and then we can actually start discussing the Irish border arrangements.

    Is this DUP posturing for their base, or are they serious about the implied threat ?
    Is there any difference in Northern Irish politics?

    Edit: Their genuine red line is surely that 'there will be no border in the Irish Sea', which seems fair enough.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080

    If the DUP are going to try and torpedo the deal it is time for the Lib Dems and Labour to support the government to ensure we have a decent Brexit deal.

    Lolol
  • If the DUP are going to try and torpedo the deal it is time for the Lib Dems and Labour to support the government to ensure we have a decent Brexit deal.

    Good luck with that one.
    Mrs May pissing away Dave’s majority really did screw her and the country.
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,545
    edited December 2017

    If the DUP are going to try and torpedo the deal it is time for the Lib Dems and Labour to support the government to ensure we have a decent Brexit deal.

    Good luck with that one.
    About as likely as those German car manufacturers riding to the rescue, I would guess.
  • stevef said:

    Sean_F said:

    So will the DUP go all Anglo-Irish agreement and resign their seats and trigger by elections?

    No. If they are unhappy with the proposal, it would make far more sense to cause trouble in close Parliamentary votes.
    So unhappy with a small step towards a United Ireland that they will ally themselves with Sinn Fein ally Corbyn and supporter of a United Ireland. Really?
    Yes, but what could Corbyn actually do about it?

    Obviously, the Brexit process does offer a significant opportunity but that apart, even the likes of McDonnell will be more interested in delivering economic and social reform than trying to engineer a united Ireland (not least because they government has more levers to do what he wants there).

    A Corbyn government is for Christmas (or, at most, for five years); a concession on the Union is forever.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Yoon Ultras ecstatic, the little rays of sunshine that they are.

    https://twitter.com/JamieBrysonCPNI/status/937650248549326848

    I wonder what he means by 'strongly resisted'?

    Who's this fucking bam? His twitter feed is crazy pants.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @thatginamiller: Could someone wake up the politicians and tell them there are only 2 solutions to Brexit and NI border issue - stay in the Single Market & Customs Union or #Remain.
  • Can we have a vote on who takes the role of Gloucester?

    Bagsy me Nigel.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @BrunoBrussels: Everyone here thinks the big piglet ‘has got to be Boris' https://twitter.com/timesredbox/status/937684168787423232
  • Mind you, the DUP will presumably want their usual commission on the £50bn.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Hopefully after the posturing on all sides has been duly completed, we'll now be able to get down to discussions on what the future EU-UK relationship will be, and then we can actually start discussing the Irish border arrangements.

    Is this DUP posturing for their base, or are they serious about the implied threat ?
    Have the DUP ever bluffed about anything, ever?

    If the UK govt goes ahead with the draft, we have a general election in February.

    That said, I do wonder whether the government has set this up. There was a report that the DUP were being closely consulted and it's notable that no government minister has said anything about the draft. I wonder whether they were intending that the DUP would veto it (and had signalled to them that they'd be happy for them to so do), in order to demonstrate that it really was a red line and that even if May were happy to go along with a semi-detached status for NI, she couldn't get it through parliament and stay in office.

    (FWIW, I doubt that No 10 could deliver on a plan that intricate; more likely that it's fallen apart organically)
  • Scott_P said:

    @thatginamiller: Could someone wake up the politicians and tell them there are only 2 solutions to Brexit and NI border issue - stay in the Single Market & Customs Union or #Remain.

    Not really, we could just exit with no deal. Neither the Irish or the EU could stop that.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,786

    Scott_P said:

    @thatginamiller: Could someone wake up the politicians and tell them there are only 2 solutions to Brexit and NI border issue - stay in the Single Market & Customs Union or #Remain.

    Not really, we could just exit with no deal. Neither the Irish or the EU could stop that.
    What would stop it is the lack of cohesion of the UK. The lack of a demos, so to speak.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Not really, we could just exit with no deal. Neither the Irish or the EU could stop that.

    That's not a solution to the NI border issue, unless you count reunification as a solution.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460

    Scott_P said:

    @SkyNewsBreak: DUP leader Arlene Foster says her party will "not accept any form of regulatory divergence" in Ireland after Brexit and the Irish government is "clearly seeking to unilaterally change the Belfast agreement"

    Hmm. That's rather put the kibosh on it. Is this just rhetoric or will Theresa and DD be instructed to go back and try again?
    Or you can square that by our being in a sort of EEA as the UK, ie there’s “no regulatory divergence” on trade between UK and NI or NI and ROI/EU, but UK presumably would be able to sign trade deals still (though having to take into account no divergence from EU regulations eg agriculture), and one assumes reassert meaningful limits on immigration.

    We would’ve swapped 12.5% say in the rule setting of the Single Market for the ability to do limited but better trade deals outside of Europe (plus no FOM? - except between U.K. and ROI of course which has existed pre EU) And we would’ve left the political structures of the EU. Sort of Norway minus???

    Wouldn’t be a bad position at all.

    Doubtless more cash heading to NI one way and another too to be a tad cynical.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,742
    edited December 2017
    Poor old Tessy, constitutionally incapable of pleasing anyone any of the time. Perhaps politics is the wrong business for her?

    https://twitter.com/Torcuil/status/937689135887904768
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Anybody seen Felix?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,839

    Mind you, the DUP will presumably want their usual commission on the £50bn.

    We have the Labour voters of Kensington; Dudley North; Newcastle-under-Lyme; Crewe and Nantwich; Canterbury; Barrow and Furness; Keighley; Lanark and Hamilton East; Ashfield to thank for this lot :)
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    edited December 2017

    TMay handling Brexit as well as she handled GE 2017...

  • Pulpstar said:

    Mind you, the DUP will presumably want their usual commission on the £50bn.

    We have the Labour voters of Kensington; Dudley North; Newcastle-under-Lyme; Crewe and Nantwich; Canterbury; Barrow and Furness; Keighley; Lanark and Hamilton East; Ashfield to thank for this lot :)
    Yep, and with special thanks to Fiona Hill and Nick Timothy.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @davidallengreen: Brexit Solution

    United Kingdom of London, Scotland, Gibraltar and Northern Ireland to remain in EU.

    Brexitland to leave the EU.

    (Parts of Brexitland may vote over time to join the new UK in local referendums, as Overland Territories.)
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @RohitKachrooITV: Ladbrokes cuts odds of a 2018 General Election. There's now a 2/1 chance
  • Scott_P said:

    @RohitKachrooITV: Ladbrokes cuts odds of a 2018 General Election. There's now a 2/1 chance

    To think the abuse I got for even putting that into a thread header.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559

    If the DUP are going to try and torpedo the deal it is time for the Lib Dems and Labour to support the government to ensure we have a decent Brexit deal.

    we want Jezza
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,956
    edited December 2017
  • If the DUP are going to try and torpedo the deal it is time for the Lib Dems and Labour to support the government to ensure we have a decent Brexit deal.

    we want Jezza
    If labour sniff the chance of a GE they'll not be proping up the government. Screw brexit and a deal.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,956
    edited December 2017

    If the DUP are going to try and torpedo the deal it is time for the Lib Dems and Labour to support the government to ensure we have a decent Brexit deal.

    we want Jezza
    God no.

    He'll tax the crap out of me.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,839
    Standing Strong for Northern Ireland

    https://twitter.com/duponline/status/937692886208049152
  • And lo, Brexit begat Prime Minister Corbyn.
  • If the DUP are going to try and torpedo the deal it is time for the Lib Dems and Labour to support the government to ensure we have a decent Brexit deal.

    we want Jezza
    God no.

    He'll tax the crap out of me.
    Suck it up rich boy.... We're going back to the 70s
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,279
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,839

    If the DUP are going to try and torpedo the deal it is time for the Lib Dems and Labour to support the government to ensure we have a decent Brexit deal.

    we want Jezza
    God no.

    He'll tax the crap out of me.
    Amazing how Cameron's decision to try and kibosh UKIP has ended up here.
  • If the DUP are going to try and torpedo the deal it is time for the Lib Dems and Labour to support the government to ensure we have a decent Brexit deal.

    we want Jezza
    God no.

    He'll tax the crap out of me.
    Suck it up rich boy.... We're going back to the 70s

    I will be deciding whether to go to Malta or Cyprus with their low tax rate - despite them being in the EU.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559

    If the DUP are going to try and torpedo the deal it is time for the Lib Dems and Labour to support the government to ensure we have a decent Brexit deal.

    we want Jezza
    God no.

    He'll tax the crap out of me.
    What are you moaning about, you spent all your time supporting numpties who made ordinary people in the regions poorer
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080

    If the DUP are going to try and torpedo the deal it is time for the Lib Dems and Labour to support the government to ensure we have a decent Brexit deal.

    we want Jezza
    God no.

    He'll tax the crap out of me.
    Better out than in.

    Except Brexit, of course.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,956
    edited December 2017

    If the DUP are going to try and torpedo the deal it is time for the Lib Dems and Labour to support the government to ensure we have a decent Brexit deal.

    we want Jezza
    God no.

    He'll tax the crap out of me.
    Suck it up rich boy.... We're going back to the 70s
    I'm a working class Northerner, I'm from the People's Republic of South Yorkshire, he should know he'd be only hurting his own people.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @TheScepticIsle: If a border between NI and ROI is unworkable and a border between NI & rUK is unworkable, then regulatory divergence between NI & rUK is unworkable so NI remaining in the Single Market & UK leaving is unworkable. Conclusion? The UK leaving the Single Market is unworkable
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559

    If the DUP are going to try and torpedo the deal it is time for the Lib Dems and Labour to support the government to ensure we have a decent Brexit deal.

    we want Jezza
    God no.

    He'll tax the crap out of me.
    Suck it up rich boy.... We're going back to the 70s
    I'm a working class Northerner, I'm from the People's Republic of South Yorkshire, he should know he'd be only hurting his own people.
    his people live in Islington
  • I might end up applying for that job with NAB in Melbourne now.
  • If the DUP are going to try and torpedo the deal it is time for the Lib Dems and Labour to support the government to ensure we have a decent Brexit deal.

    we want Jezza
    God no.

    He'll tax the crap out of me.
    Suck it up rich boy.... We're going back to the 70s
    I'm a working class Northerner, I'm from the People's Republic of South Yorkshire, he should know he'd be only hurting his own people.
    Not at all, working classes people are supposed to know their place in the workers paradise. You're a class traitor, lower than the toffs.....
  • If the DUP are going to try and torpedo the deal it is time for the Lib Dems and Labour to support the government to ensure we have a decent Brexit deal.

    we want Jezza
    God no.

    He'll tax the crap out of me.
    Suck it up rich boy.... We're going back to the 70s
    I'm a working class Northerner, I'm from the People's Republic of South Yorkshire, he should know he'd be only hurting his own people.
    his people live in Islington
    I lived in London for five years, does that count?
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    If the DUP are going to try and torpedo the deal it is time for the Lib Dems and Labour to support the government to ensure we have a decent Brexit deal.

    we want Jezza
    God no.

    He'll tax the crap out of me.
    Is crapless bad?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559

    I might end up applying for that job with NAB in Melbourne now.

    I thought youd be hanging in there for that Great Northern Powerhouse
  • I'm going to tell my Dad to go work for the NHS again, under Corbyn doctors and everyone else in the NHS are going to get paid squillions.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559

    If the DUP are going to try and torpedo the deal it is time for the Lib Dems and Labour to support the government to ensure we have a decent Brexit deal.

    we want Jezza
    God no.

    He'll tax the crap out of me.
    Suck it up rich boy.... We're going back to the 70s
    I'm a working class Northerner, I'm from the People's Republic of South Yorkshire, he should know he'd be only hurting his own people.
    his people live in Islington
    I lived in London for five years, does that count?
    Orc
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @KevDoyle_Indo: Taoiseach Leo Varadkar's statement of #Brexit has been postponed "for now". Reporters told to "go off and have a coffee". May and Juncker taking their time over the desserts.
  • Scott_P said:
    Is Brexit about to collapse under the weight of its own contradictions?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559

    Scott_P said:
    Is Brexit about to collapse under the weight of its own contradictions?
    one could see that about the EU
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    It was always coming that the DUP will be thrown under the bus. But I have to say this is the most logical outcome, if reports are true.

    We must not forget that the people of NI voted to stay in the EU, i.e. in the Single Market and the Customs Union.

    Scotland should be given the same opportunity. Scotland will have a case.
This discussion has been closed.