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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » With the Alabama polls showing the Farage-backed Moore 3.8% ah

SystemSystem Posts: 6,199
edited December 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » With the Alabama polls showing the Farage-backed Moore 3.8% ahead the betting makes him an 81% chance

What Alabama's Senior Senator thinks of the man Farage is campaigning for in Tuesday crucial election https://t.co/GiUQ9ZuUwP

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,736
    Zgikspøn;?
  • any chance of a UK byelection in early 2018?
  • TomsToms Posts: 1,554
    edited December 2017
    The bearing, not to say cockiness, in public of both Trump and Farage continue to amaze me. Have they no capacity for introspection? These days it's almost as if were were living in a (cautionary) fairy tale. But sadly there seems to be no magic mirrors they could look into.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 16,982
    Toms said:

    The bearing, not to say cockiness, in public of both Trump and Farage continue to amaze me. Have they no capacity for introspection? These days it's almost as if were were living in a (cautionary) fairy tale. But sadly there seems to be no magic mirrors they could look into.

    theyre showmen

    youre their audience, they send you bait and you click madly

    switch off social media and restore your sanity
  • TomsToms Posts: 1,554

    Toms said:

    The bearing, not to say cockiness, in public of both Trump and Farage continue to amaze me. Have they no capacity for introspection? These days it's almost as if were were living in a (cautionary) fairy tale. But sadly there seems to be no magic mirrors they could look into.

    theyre showmen

    youre their audience, they send you bait and you click madly

    switch off social media and restore your sanity
    It's noise, I know. My connections with social media is limited to this, occasionally.
    Trouble is---this election matters.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 16,982
    edited December 2017
    Toms said:

    Toms said:

    The bearing, not to say cockiness, in public of both Trump and Farage continue to amaze me. Have they no capacity for introspection? These days it's almost as if were were living in a (cautionary) fairy tale. But sadly there seems to be no magic mirrors they could look into.

    theyre showmen

    youre their audience, they send you bait and you click madly

    switch off social media and restore your sanity
    It's noise, I know. My connections with social media is limited to this, occasionally.
    Trouble is---this election matters.
    really it doesnt

    the US has been electing various shades of nutjobs into ofiice for years and nothing has happened

    this is simply a cause celebre one issue election

    in 3 months when the circus has moved on you wont even remember it
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 6,168
    edited December 2017

    Toms said:

    Toms said:

    The bearing, not to say cockiness, in public of both Trump and Farage continue to amaze me. Have they no capacity for introspection? These days it's almost as if were were living in a (cautionary) fairy tale. But sadly there seems to be no magic mirrors they could look into.

    theyre showmen

    youre their audience, they send you bait and you click madly

    switch off social media and restore your sanity
    It's noise, I know. My connections with social media is limited to this, occasionally.
    Trouble is---this election matters.
    really it doesnt

    the US has been electing various shades of nutjobs into ofiice for years and nothing has happened

    this is simply a cuase celebre one issue election

    in 3 months when the circus hs moved on you wont even remember it
    Of course it matters - it could well make the difference between the Democrats or Republicans controlling the Senate next year.

    If you have no interest in US politics yourself, fair enough, but don't expect others to share your indifference.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 16,982
    Nigelb said:

    Toms said:

    Toms said:

    The bearing, not to say cockiness, in public of both Trump and Farage continue to amaze me. Have they no capacity for introspection? These days it's almost as if were were living in a (cautionary) fairy tale. But sadly there seems to be no magic mirrors they could look into.

    theyre showmen

    youre their audience, they send you bait and you click madly

    switch off social media and restore your sanity
    It's noise, I know. My connections with social media is limited to this, occasionally.
    Trouble is---this election matters.
    really it doesnt

    the US has been electing various shades of nutjobs into ofiice for years and nothing has happened

    this is simply a cuase celebre one issue election

    in 3 months when the circus hs moved on you wont even remember it
    Of course it matters - it could well make the difference between the Democrats or Republicans controlling the Senate next year.

    If you have no interest in US politics yourself, fair enough, but don't expect others to share your indifference.

    "could" - zzzzzzz

    I'll take it you voted Remain
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 6,168

    Nigelb said:

    Toms said:

    Toms said:

    The bearing, not to say cockiness, in public of both Trump and Farage continue to amaze me. Have they no capacity for introspection? These days it's almost as if were were living in a (cautionary) fairy tale. But sadly there seems to be no magic mirrors they could look into.

    theyre showmen

    youre their audience, they send you bait and you click madly

    switch off social media and restore your sanity
    It's noise, I know. My connections with social media is limited to this, occasionally.
    Trouble is---this election matters.
    really it doesnt

    the US has been electing various shades of nutjobs into ofiice for years and nothing has happened

    this is simply a cuase celebre one issue election

    in 3 months when the circus hs moved on you wont even remember it
    Of course it matters - it could well make the difference between the Democrats or Republicans controlling the Senate next year.

    If you have no interest in US politics yourself, fair enough, but don't expect others to share your indifference.

    "could" - zzzzzzz

    I'll take it you voted Remain

    ZZZZZZ

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 16,982
    Germany still without a government

    first round coalition talks start on Wednesday, SPD taking hard line


    https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article171461714/Einigen-geht-es-offenbar-um-die-Zukunft-nach-Merkel.html
  • any chance of a UK byelection in early 2018?

    I'd say probably no. TMay looks more secure than she has been since GE17 though maybe DGreen could be in trouble. If he has to quit as TMay's deputy then hard to see him staying in the Commons.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,540
    Morning, after a few days away. I don’t have a view on the Alabama race itself, think the polling is too unreliable and a differential turnout could swing things one way or the other in the most unexpected of ways. It’s of huge importance for the makeup of the Senate though, another Democrat could make life very difficult for the Republicans next year.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,540
    edited December 2017
    And I see it is snowing in London, does that mean there will be no other news today?

    Well at least isn’t Brexit, Mrs May seems to have got through the first weekend after her stage 1 deal relatively unscathed.

    It’s cold to be a cold 26 degrees in the sandpit today ;) - except for the idiot who got caught here with cannabis, he’ll be enjoying a hot and sweaty prison cell.
  • Toms said:

    Toms said:

    The bearing, not to say cockiness, in public of both Trump and Farage continue to amaze me. Have they no capacity for introspection? These days it's almost as if were were living in a (cautionary) fairy tale. But sadly there seems to be no magic mirrors they could look into.

    theyre showmen

    youre their audience, they send you bait and you click madly

    switch off social media and restore your sanity
    It's noise, I know. My connections with social media is limited to this, occasionally.
    Trouble is---this election matters.
    really it doesnt

    the US has been electing various shades of nutjobs into ofiice for years and nothing has happened

    this is simply a cause celebre one issue election

    in 3 months when the circus has moved on you wont even remember it
    Your judgement on this is wrong.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 16,982

    Toms said:

    Toms said:

    The bearing, not to say cockiness, in public of both Trump and Farage continue to amaze me. Have they no capacity for introspection? These days it's almost as if were were living in a (cautionary) fairy tale. But sadly there seems to be no magic mirrors they could look into.

    theyre showmen

    youre their audience, they send you bait and you click madly

    switch off social media and restore your sanity
    It's noise, I know. My connections with social media is limited to this, occasionally.
    Trouble is---this election matters.
    really it doesnt

    the US has been electing various shades of nutjobs into ofiice for years and nothing has happened

    this is simply a cause celebre one issue election

    in 3 months when the circus has moved on you wont even remember it
    Your judgement on this is wrong.
    maybe yes, maybe no, well see what were talking about in March
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,540
    edited December 2017
    From reading the last thread, I hope BAe haven’t messed up relations with Saudi and UAE by selling Typhoons to the Qataris.

    Politics in the Gulf is a little fragile now, with Qatar and Iran arming the rebels in Yemen against the rest of the regional powers. Arming both sides of a war is great for business if you can get away with it, but if not done with extreme care it can get very messy very quickly!
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 1,774
    Sandpit said:

    From reading the last thread, I hope BAe haven’t messed up relations with Saudi and UAE by selling Typhoons to the Qataris.

    Politics in the Gulf is a little fragile now, with Qatar and Iran arming the rebels in Yemen against the rest of the regional powers. Arming both sides of a war is great for business if you can get away with it, but if not done with extreme care it can get very messy very quickly!

    Well Qatar are replacing 12x Mir2k with 36x F-15QA, 36x Rafale and 24x EF so it's safe to say they are expecting a very big mess very soon.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,540
    edited December 2017
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    From reading the last thread, I hope BAe haven’t messed up relations with Saudi and UAE by selling Typhoons to the Qataris.

    Politics in the Gulf is a little fragile now, with Qatar and Iran arming the rebels in Yemen against the rest of the regional powers. Arming both sides of a war is great for business if you can get away with it, but if not done with extreme care it can get very messy very quickly!

    Well Qatar are replacing 12x Mir2k with 36x F-15QA, 36x Rafale and 24x EF so it's safe to say they are expecting a very big mess very soon.
    That’s a worryingly large airborne arsenal for a very small country. Doesn’t bode well for stability in the region and I’m very pleased I turned down a move to Qatar last year!

    Very informative comment on the various types of Typhoon on the last thread by the way :+1:
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 31,668

    Venezuela opposition banned from running in 2018 election

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-42304594

    Dissent will not be tolerated.

    He has become an ever more blatant dictator over the years.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 31,668
    edited December 2017

    Germany still without a government

    first round coalition talks start on Wednesday, SPD taking hard line


    https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article171461714/Einigen-geht-es-offenbar-um-die-Zukunft-nach-Merkel.html

    That they've conceded to talk after saying no after the election surely means they'll cave? The polls have a similar outcome were the election rerun is that right? From the little I read of German politics no one truly wants that uncertainty.

    Time for an Xmas present of a new government.
  • Toms said:

    The bearing, not to say cockiness, in public of both Trump and Farage continue to amaze me. Have they no capacity for introspection? These days it's almost as if were were living in a (cautionary) fairy tale. But sadly there seems to be no magic mirrors they could look into.

    theyre showmen

    youre their audience, they send you bait and you click madly

    switch off social media and restore your sanity
    If it were only that it would not be important. Giving us Brexit, Trump and probably Moore is giving us things to make our lives worse.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 31,668
    JohnLoony said:

    Zgikspøn;?

    Er, Yes?
  • The mind boggles that anyone could seriously vote for Moore. Then I remember it's Alabama and think "meh".

    It's like their thing with guns. If slaughtering 5 year olds in their classroom doesn't make them think again, nothing will.

    Anyway, at last we know one thing:

    Gozer the Gozerian: Sub-creatures. Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volgus Zildrohar, the Traveler has come. Choose and perish.
    Ray Stantz: What do you mean, choose? We don't understand.
    Gozer the Gozerian: Choose. Choose the form of the Destructor.
    Peter Venkman: Oh, I get it! I get it. Oh! Very cute. [to the others] "Whatever we think of." If we think of J. Edgar Hoover, J. Edgar Hoover will appear and destroy us, okay? So empty your heads. Empty your heads. Don't think of anything. We've only got one shot at this.
    Gozer the Gozerian: The choice is made.
    Peter Venkman: Whoa! Hold on! Whoa!
    Gozer the Gozerian: The Traveler has come.
    Peter Venkman: Nobody "choosed" anything! [turns to Egon] Did you choose anything?
    Egon Spengler: No.
    Peter Venkman: [to Winston] Did you?
    Winston Zeddemore: My mind is totally blank.
    Peter Venkman: I didn't choose anything! [All three slowly turn to confront Ray]
    Ray Stantz: I couldn't help it. It just popped in there.

    Ray chose Donald Trump
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 31,668
    I wonder if Moore did lose, which I don't expect (it's just too strong a state for the party to get over that line), given the polls mostly have him safely if not comfortably in the lead, would Trump dare to call foul on the outcome? Hopefully he would just turn his ire on the establishment republicans for the loss.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 9,358

    any chance of a UK byelection in early 2018?

    I'd say probably no. TMay looks more secure than she has been since GE17 though maybe DGreen could be in trouble. If he has to quit as TMay's deputy then hard to see him staying in the Commons.
    Unlikely his wife would let him. All those nubile journalists......
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 19,818
    Roger said:

    any chance of a UK byelection in early 2018?

    I'd say probably no. TMay looks more secure than she has been since GE17 though maybe DGreen could be in trouble. If he has to quit as TMay's deputy then hard to see him staying in the Commons.
    Unlikely his wife would let him. All those nubile journalists......
    He wouldn't be of any use to them at that point so I suspect she'd be ok with him remaining
  • RogerRoger Posts: 9,358
    edited December 2017
    Cont...In looking to see whether Damien Green was married I came across this. It's old but really shocking...

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1171574/They-stripped-sheets-marital-bed-Wife-MP-Damian-Green-tells-day-anti-terror-police-raided-home.html
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 6,168
    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    From reading the last thread, I hope BAe haven’t messed up relations with Saudi and UAE by selling Typhoons to the Qataris.

    Politics in the Gulf is a little fragile now, with Qatar and Iran arming the rebels in Yemen against the rest of the regional powers. Arming both sides of a war is great for business if you can get away with it, but if not done with extreme care it can get very messy very quickly!

    Well Qatar are replacing 12x Mir2k with 36x F-15QA, 36x Rafale and 24x EF so it's safe to say they are expecting a very big mess very soon.
    That’s a worryingly large airborne arsenal for a very small country. Doesn’t bode well for stability in the region and I’m very pleased I turned down a move to Qatar last year...
    Sound more like three separate airforces. If they were expecting to be fighting a war, they'd be putting together something a little easier to integrate, surely ?
    More likely an attempt to purchase political/diplomatic support.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 9,358
    edited December 2017
    Charles said:

    Roger said:

    any chance of a UK byelection in early 2018?

    I'd say probably no. TMay looks more secure than she has been since GE17 though maybe DGreen could be in trouble. If he has to quit as TMay's deputy then hard to see him staying in the Commons.
    Unlikely his wife would let him. All those nubile journalists......
    He wouldn't be of any use to them at that point so I suspect she'd be ok with him remaining
    Poor old Damian. Even discarded by parasites.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 19,818
    Roger said:

    Charles said:

    Roger said:

    any chance of a UK byelection in early 2018?

    I'd say probably no. TMay looks more secure than she has been since GE17 though maybe DGreen could be in trouble. If he has to quit as TMay's deputy then hard to see him staying in the Commons.
    Unlikely his wife would let him. All those nubile journalists......
    He wouldn't be of any use to them at that point so I suspect she'd be ok with him remaining
    Poor old Damian. Even discarded by parasites.
    If you want a friend in politics buy a dog
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 11,364
    Roger said:

    any chance of a UK byelection in early 2018?

    I'd say probably no. TMay looks more secure than she has been since GE17 though maybe DGreen could be in trouble. If he has to quit as TMay's deputy then hard to see him staying in the Commons.
    Unlikely his wife would let him. All those nubile journalists......
    Ashord lowest Tory majority in recent times was the 5000+ ion 1997. The fight there is for second place. Lab, LD and UKIP all been there in recent years, so can’t really see it as ‘interesting'.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 31,668
    Roger said:

    Charles said:

    Roger said:

    any chance of a UK byelection in early 2018?

    I'd say probably no. TMay looks more secure than she has been since GE17 though maybe DGreen could be in trouble. If he has to quit as TMay's deputy then hard to see him staying in the Commons.
    Unlikely his wife would let him. All those nubile journalists......
    He wouldn't be of any use to them at that point so I suspect she'd be ok with him remaining
    Poor old Damian. Even discarded by parasites.
    I just hope if he has done something resignation worthy those smug, leaking coppers don't get to act like what they did was ok.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 10,584
    edited December 2017
    Realclearpolitics suggests the polling lead for Moore in recent times has been 6,3,-4,4,5 - seems modest but steady with one outlier. 83% sounds about right, as there may be differential turnout so Jones could have a chance.

    As with Trump, the GOP establishment thinks "Yeuch!", but the core vote thinks that's a good thing.

    Interestingly, there has been no recovery in Trump's national rating despite the tax bill passing and no obvious scandals in recent weeks by his standards. The anti-Trump core vote is solid too, it's just that most of themdon't live in Alabama.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 16,982

    Toms said:

    The bearing, not to say cockiness, in public of both Trump and Farage continue to amaze me. Have they no capacity for introspection? These days it's almost as if were were living in a (cautionary) fairy tale. But sadly there seems to be no magic mirrors they could look into.

    theyre showmen

    youre their audience, they send you bait and you click madly

    switch off social media and restore your sanity
    If it were only that it would not be important. Giving us Brexit, Trump and probably Moore is giving us things to make our lives worse.
    that sort of depends on who "we" are

    for a chunk of the population the EU, Blair and Clegg made their lives worse than your trio, hence recent voting patterns
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 11,364

    Toms said:

    The bearing, not to say cockiness, in public of both Trump and Farage continue to amaze me. Have they no capacity for introspection? These days it's almost as if were were living in a (cautionary) fairy tale. But sadly there seems to be no magic mirrors they could look into.

    theyre showmen

    youre their audience, they send you bait and you click madly

    switch off social media and restore your sanity
    If it were only that it would not be important. Giving us Brexit, Trump and probably Moore is giving us things to make our lives worse.
    that sort of depends on who "we" are

    for a chunk of the population the EU, Blair and Clegg made their lives worse than your trio, hence recent voting patterns
    Difficult to see how, overall...... and yes I know people who have been disadvantaged by firms going over to E Europe and hiring cheaper labour.
  • Good morning, everyone.

    The Alabama election is quite an interesting one. Although perhaps not top of the agenda, it also comes after Trump's tax triumph and that may help the reds.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 16,982

    Toms said:

    The bearing, not to say cockiness, in public of both Trump and Farage continue to amaze me. Have they no capacity for introspection? These days it's almost as if were were living in a (cautionary) fairy tale. But sadly there seems to be no magic mirrors they could look into.

    theyre showmen

    youre their audience, they send you bait and you click madly

    switch off social media and restore your sanity
    If it were only that it would not be important. Giving us Brexit, Trump and probably Moore is giving us things to make our lives worse.
    that sort of depends on who "we" are

    for a chunk of the population the EU, Blair and Clegg made their lives worse than your trio, hence recent voting patterns
    Difficult to see how, overall...... and yes I know people who have been disadvantaged by firms going over to E Europe and hiring cheaper labour.
    look at wage growth, productivity and BoP.

    look at the growing inequality between the SE and the rest of the country

    Uni fees, well ......
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 9,580

    Good morning, everyone.

    The Alabama election is quite an interesting one. Although perhaps not top of the agenda, it also comes after Trump's tax triumph and that may help the reds.

    Have you not been following the news on the tax bill? The tax triumph collapsed within days of being passed. Due to typos and errors by the GOP when hurriedly writing in crayon many big businesses, like the coal industry, are looking at large tax hikes.

    As a result the bill is having to go to conference and be voted on again.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 2,805

    Toms said:

    Toms said:

    The bearing, not to say cockiness, in public of both Trump and Farage continue to amaze me. Have they no capacity for introspection? These days it's almost as if were were living in a (cautionary) fairy tale. But sadly there seems to be no magic mirrors they could look into.

    theyre showmen

    youre their audience, they send you bait and you click madly

    switch off social media and restore your sanity
    It's noise, I know. My connections with social media is limited to this, occasionally.
    Trouble is---this election matters.
    really it doesnt

    the US has been electing various shades of nutjobs into ofiice for years and nothing has happened

    this is simply a cause celebre one issue election

    in 3 months when the circus has moved on you wont even remember it
    Your judgement on this is wrong.
    Nope

    lovely Brexit and lovely Trump for lovely working-class people

    though we'll never vote for anything that actually helps them, just things we like that we think they like too
  • Mr. Alistair, really?

    I just saw a bit on the news about it passing, and nothing else.

    .... That'll teach me to rely on the news for news!

    [As an aside, I was baffled that the BBC the other night gave more time to Bradley Wiggins erroneously thinking there was a false start in a rowing event than to Ronnie O'Sullivan winning the UK title for the sixth time].
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,540
    One for the tulip watchers. The Chicago Mercantile Exchange will start trading Bitcoin futures next Monday.

    This will be the first opportunity traders will have had to lay the future price of BTC, so we can take a guess at what might be about to happen...

    https://www.thestreet.com/story/14415966/1/bitcoin-futures-trading-starts.html
  • Meanwhile, in socialist paradise the opposition (presumably South America's equivalent of baby-eating Tories) have been forbidden from standing for election:
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 42,691
    A 3.8% lead for Moore is really nothing in Alabama, a state where Sessions won by 27% the last time this Senate seat was competitively contested in 2008 and where Trump won by 28% in 2016.

    If moderate Republicans write in Strange or a former marine colonel who is running as a centrist alternative to Jones and Moore and if there is high black and female turnout Jones could yet seek it.

    The Democrats will be hoping Jones is their Scott Brown, Brown being the moderate Republican who beat Martha Coakley for Ted Kennedy's old Massachusetts seat in 2010, albeit only holding the seat for 2 years until Elizabeth Warren won it back for the Democrats in 2012
  • Mr. Sandpit, could you explain in layman's terms how Bitcoin and similar things work?
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,680

    Meanwhile, in socialist paradise the opposition (presumably South America's equivalent of baby-eating Tories) have been forbidden from standing for election:

    Most of the Labour Party will be outraged.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 32,839

    Meanwhile, in socialist paradise the opposition (presumably South America's equivalent of baby-eating Tories) have been forbidden from standing for election:

    Now why didn’t we think of that in the last election!
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 9,580

    Mr. Alistair, really?

    I just saw a bit on the news about it passing, and nothing else.

    .... That'll teach me to rely on the news for news!

    [As an aside, I was baffled that the BBC the other night gave more time to Bradley Wiggins erroneously thinking there was a false start in a rowing event than to Ronnie O'Sullivan winning the UK title for the sixth time].

    It's not quite as bad for the republicans as I read in initial reports but it's still a massive cock up.

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/12/7/16742046/senate-tax-bill-corporate-amt
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 1,072
    Alistair said:

    Mr. Alistair, really?

    I just saw a bit on the news about it passing, and nothing else.

    .... That'll teach me to rely on the news for news!

    [As an aside, I was baffled that the BBC the other night gave more time to Bradley Wiggins erroneously thinking there was a false start in a rowing event than to Ronnie O'Sullivan winning the UK title for the sixth time].

    It's not quite as bad for the republicans as I read in initial reports but it's still a massive cock up.

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/12/7/16742046/senate-tax-bill-corporate-amt
    But it was always going to have to go to conference, right?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 9,580

    Alistair said:

    Mr. Alistair, really?

    I just saw a bit on the news about it passing, and nothing else.

    .... That'll teach me to rely on the news for news!

    [As an aside, I was baffled that the BBC the other night gave more time to Bradley Wiggins erroneously thinking there was a false start in a rowing event than to Ronnie O'Sullivan winning the UK title for the sixth time].

    It's not quite as bad for the republicans as I read in initial reports but it's still a massive cock up.

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/12/7/16742046/senate-tax-bill-corporate-amt
    But it was always going to have to go to conference, right?
    The House could have passed the senate bill unaltered which was being discussed. With the AMT snafu it had to go to conference.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 42,691
    RobD said:

    Meanwhile, in socialist paradise the opposition (presumably South America's equivalent of baby-eating Tories) have been forbidden from standing for election:

    Now why didn’t we think of that in the last election!
    If Corbyn gets in I expect he may be thinking of it for his re election, after all we don't want misguided voters in the bread queue letting false consciousness put the Tories back in!
  • Mr. Alistair, really?

    I just saw a bit on the news about it passing, and nothing else.

    .... That'll teach me to rely on the news for news!

    [As an aside, I was baffled that the BBC the other night gave more time to Bradley Wiggins erroneously thinking there was a false start in a rowing event than to Ronnie O'Sullivan winning the UK title for the sixth time].

    Since Ronnie's every other utterance is to say how bored he is with snooker and how uninterested he is in winning, one could hardly blame the BBC for taking their lead from him.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 31,668
    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    Meanwhile, in socialist paradise the opposition (presumably South America's equivalent of baby-eating Tories) have been forbidden from standing for election:

    Now why didn’t we think of that in the last election!
    If Corbyn gets in I expect he may be thinking of it for his re election, after all we don't want misguided voters in the bread queue letting false consciousness put the Tories back in!
    I am sure that Corbyn will think the extremes Maduro has gone to re banning parties are wrong. Whether he will say so is another matter - it won't win him any praise from the right who will ask what took so long, and none from the far left either who no doubt think Maduro's only flaw is not being as great as Chavez.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 42,691
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    Meanwhile, in socialist paradise the opposition (presumably South America's equivalent of baby-eating Tories) have been forbidden from standing for election:

    Now why didn’t we think of that in the last election!
    If Corbyn gets in I expect he may be thinking of it for his re election, after all we don't want misguided voters in the bread queue letting false consciousness put the Tories back in!
    I am sure that Corbyn will think the extremes Maduro has gone to re banning parties are wrong. Whether he will say so is another matter - it won't win him any praise from the right who will ask what took so long, and none from the far left either who no doubt think Maduro's only flaw is not being as great as Chavez.
    Corbyn perhaps, McDonnell I would be less sure of
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 31,668
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    Meanwhile, in socialist paradise the opposition (presumably South America's equivalent of baby-eating Tories) have been forbidden from standing for election:

    Now why didn’t we think of that in the last election!
    If Corbyn gets in I expect he may be thinking of it for his re election, after all we don't want misguided voters in the bread queue letting false consciousness put the Tories back in!
    I am sure that Corbyn will think the extremes Maduro has gone to re banning parties are wrong. Whether he will say so is another matter - it won't win him any praise from the right who will ask what took so long, and none from the far left either who no doubt think Maduro's only flaw is not being as great as Chavez.
    Corbyn perhaps, McDonnell I would be less sure of
    Agreed.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 11,364

    Mr. Sandpit, could you explain in layman's terms how Bitcoin and similar things work?

    +1
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 2,326
    Is the Commons voting on the next lot of amendments tomorrow?

    Some clever person dug out all the dates. If they might do so again that would be great :smile:

    Morning all! A beautiful day in the capital...
  • Mr. Blue, surely you mean "Travel Chaos! Oh noes!"?
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 2,326

    Mr. Blue, surely you mean "Travel Chaos! Oh noes!"?

    The train I'm on is only a couple of minutes late. No excuse to shirk from home today.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 32,839

    Mr. Sandpit, could you explain in layman's terms how Bitcoin and similar things work?

    +1
    I think this image sums it up perfectly:

    https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/1600/1*jTT8EHj84BWnILq1A3MRqg.jpeg
  • RobDRobD Posts: 32,839
    RoyalBlue said:

    Is the Commons voting on the next lot of amendments tomorrow?

    Some clever person dug out all the dates. If they might do so again that would be great :smile:

    Morning all! A beautiful day in the capital...

    Full listing of the dates is here: https://services.parliament.uk/bills/2017-19/europeanunionwithdrawal/stages.html
  • HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    Meanwhile, in socialist paradise the opposition (presumably South America's equivalent of baby-eating Tories) have been forbidden from standing for election:

    Now why didn’t we think of that in the last election!
    If Corbyn gets in I expect he may be thinking of it for his re election, after all we don't want misguided voters in the bread queue letting false consciousness put the Tories back in!
    I am sure that Corbyn will think the extremes Maduro has gone to re banning parties are wrong. Whether he will say so is another matter - it won't win him any praise from the right who will ask what took so long, and none from the far left either who no doubt think Maduro's only flaw is not being as great as Chavez.
    Corbyn perhaps, McDonnell I would be less sure of

    When the People's Party takes over, the people will no longer require elections. They will be in charge. All hail our glorious leaders. Together we will strive to surpass the targets set by Comrade John and Comrade Jeremy. Or something!

  • Mr. Observer, the cessation of elections will be a great boon to the proletariat as it will protect them from, through the deceit of the decadent bourgeois capitalist, being led astray and mistakenly voting in a wrong and harmful way.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 9,919
    Theresa May to decide Damian Green’s fate within days

    That Times headline tells you everything you need to know about TM
  • Realclearpolitics suggests the polling lead for Moore in recent times has been 6,3,-4,4,5 - seems modest but steady with one outlier. 83% sounds about right, as there may be differential turnout so Jones could have a chance.

    As with Trump, the GOP establishment thinks "Yeuch!", but the core vote thinks that's a good thing.

    Interestingly, there has been no recovery in Trump's national rating despite the tax bill passing and no obvious scandals in recent weeks by his standards. The anti-Trump core vote is solid too, it's just that most of themdon't live in Alabama.

    It's a curiosity that has had me puzzled for a while. The popularity ratings of Trump and the GOP do not move in sync. In fact the GOP line often moves up when Trump's moves down.

    Despite recent successes, Goldilocks is down to 37.1% on Nate Silver's chart. This would be dangerously low for a normal President, but what's normal these day in the US....or here even?
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 9,978

    Theresa May to decide Damian Green’s fate within days

    That Times headline tells you everything you need to know about TM

    That she won the election, is still in power, and in far more control of her party than Corbz? :)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,540
    edited December 2017

    Mr. Sandpit, could you explain in layman's terms how Bitcoin and similar things work?

    Here’s a reasonable summary, written a few months ago.
    https://www.thewrap.com/bitcoin-charges-towards-2000-what-the-hell-is-it/
    It’s basically virtual currency, created by a network of computers churning through difficult maths problems - rather than by a government, central bank or other regulated authority.
  • Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 1,945
    RobD said:

    Mr. Sandpit, could you explain in layman's terms how Bitcoin and similar things work?

    +1
    I think this image sums it up perfectly:

    https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/1600/1*jTT8EHj84BWnILq1A3MRqg.jpeg
    LOL Next we'll find that Labour's economic plan is to invest the nation's wealth in Bitcoin as the price never drops
  • A very interesting dilemma for the Labour leadership on Brexit. The Times is reporting that the Canada +++ deal that Davis wants will require the UK to agree significant regulatory alignment across a number of areas. That's not great news for the Brexiteers, of course. But it will also severely restrict the ability of the UK to develop state aid packages. That would be a huge problem for the far left. So it's not just Theresa May that needs to square circles.
  • Theresa May to decide Damian Green’s fate within days

    That Times headline tells you everything you need to know about TM

    Yes, I think I saw them erecting the gallows on Westminster Green as I passed through just now.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 9,919

    Mr. Alistair, really?

    I just saw a bit on the news about it passing, and nothing else.

    .... That'll teach me to rely on the news for news!

    [As an aside, I was baffled that the BBC the other night gave more time to Bradley Wiggins erroneously thinking there was a false start in a rowing event than to Ronnie O'Sullivan winning the UK title for the sixth time].

    Since Ronnie's every other utterance is to say how bored he is with snooker and how uninterested he is in winning, one could hardly blame the BBC for taking their lead from him.
    The new Ronnie is enthused with Snooker and even more so Jezza
  • Mr. Sandpit, cheers for the concise summary.

    Seems bananas to me.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,540
    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Mr. Alistair, really?

    I just saw a bit on the news about it passing, and nothing else.

    .... That'll teach me to rely on the news for news!

    [As an aside, I was baffled that the BBC the other night gave more time to Bradley Wiggins erroneously thinking there was a false start in a rowing event than to Ronnie O'Sullivan winning the UK title for the sixth time].

    It's not quite as bad for the republicans as I read in initial reports but it's still a massive cock up.

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/12/7/16742046/senate-tax-bill-corporate-amt
    But it was always going to have to go to conference, right?
    The House could have passed the senate bill unaltered which was being discussed. With the AMT snafu it had to go to conference.
    Yes, what we see now is the US equivalent of the ping-pong we see between the Commons and Lords. Both houses have to pass the same version of the bill, so any amendments need to go to the other house to be ratified.
  • It looks like the Minister for Winging It has been spoken to ...
  • ElliotElliot Posts: 1,476

    A very interesting dilemma for the Labour leadership on Brexit. The Times is reporting that the Canada +++ deal that Davis wants will require the UK to agree significant regulatory alignment across a number of areas. That's not great news for the Brexiteers, of course. But it will also severely restrict the ability of the UK to develop state aid packages. That would be a huge problem for the far left. So it's not just Theresa May that needs to square circles.

    It's amazing that after all this time Remainers still don't seem to understand the position of most Leavers. Those of us that think this sort of thing is important don't mind alignment to similar international standards, as long as the way it is done is by UK lawmakers rather than incorporation of every new directive directly into UK law, there is no EU enforcement body and we can still sign trade deals elsewhere . It allows us to tailor the regulations to the UK context, means we can drag our feet to haggle out compromises and, if we really don't like it, refuse to incorporate it meaning the EU would have to go nuclear over a tiny issue when they have bigger fish to fry.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 4,547
    edited December 2017
    For just about the first time in my life I wanted the hated ManU to beat City yesterday.

    I've got a nice 16/1 bet on Burnley in Betfair handicap premiership market. City have no handicap - Burnley have 43 points added meaning that I win even if City, as his highly likely, wins the EPL provided their gap over Burnley is less than 43 points
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,540
    edited December 2017

    Mr. Sandpit, cheers for the concise summary.

    Seems bananas to me.

    It’s very much completely bananas. All we are seeing now is a speculatory bubble as mainstream financial institutions start to get involved in something that until very recently they would have run a mile from.

    To say the price is extremely volatile would be something of an understatement.

    http://xe.com/currencycharts/?from=XBT&to=USD&view=1Y
  • Ally_BAlly_B Posts: 179
    Sandpit said:

    Mr. Sandpit, could you explain in layman's terms how Bitcoin and similar things work?

    Here’s a reasonable summary, written a few months ago.
    https://www.thewrap.com/bitcoin-charges-towards-2000-what-the-hell-is-it/
    It’s basically virtual currency, created by a network of computers churning through difficult maths problems - rather than by a government, central bank or other regulated authority.
    So its a tulip bulb?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,540
    Ally_B said:

    Sandpit said:

    Mr. Sandpit, could you explain in layman's terms how Bitcoin and similar things work?

    Here’s a reasonable summary, written a few months ago.
    https://www.thewrap.com/bitcoin-charges-towards-2000-what-the-hell-is-it/
    It’s basically virtual currency, created by a network of computers churning through difficult maths problems - rather than by a government, central bank or other regulated authority.
    So its a tulip bulb?
    I am not a financial advisor blah blah blah.

    Yes, it’s a 21st Century tulip bulb.
  • A very interesting dilemma for the Labour leadership on Brexit. The Times is reporting that the Canada +++ deal that Davis wants will require the UK to agree significant regulatory alignment across a number of areas. That's not great news for the Brexiteers, of course. But it will also severely restrict the ability of the UK to develop state aid packages. That would be a huge problem for the far left. So it's not just Theresa May that needs to square circles.

    Anything which limits the powers of the loony left (and loony right) is probably a good thing.
  • ElliotElliot Posts: 1,476
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    Meanwhile, in socialist paradise the opposition (presumably South America's equivalent of baby-eating Tories) have been forbidden from standing for election:

    Now why didn’t we think of that in the last election!
    If Corbyn gets in I expect he may be thinking of it for his re election, after all we don't want misguided voters in the bread queue letting false consciousness put the Tories back in!
    I am sure that Corbyn will think the extremes Maduro has gone to re banning parties are wrong. Whether he will say so is another matter - it won't win him any praise from the right who will ask what took so long, and none from the far left either who no doubt think Maduro's only flaw is not being as great as Chavez.
    Why are you so sure? Corbyn has long supported the Venezuelan socialists, as he does with all "anti-imperialists", regardless of their tactics. Look at his past close relationship with the Iranian regime for goodness sake.

    I know this is all a partisan bun fight to many on here, but it really isn't to people from these countries. I have had relations disappeared in Iran. No doubt they were tortured before being thrown in a pit somewhere but my family will likely never know.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,540
    Elliot said:

    A very interesting dilemma for the Labour leadership on Brexit. The Times is reporting that the Canada +++ deal that Davis wants will require the UK to agree significant regulatory alignment across a number of areas. That's not great news for the Brexiteers, of course. But it will also severely restrict the ability of the UK to develop state aid packages. That would be a huge problem for the far left. So it's not just Theresa May that needs to square circles.

    It's amazing that after all this time Remainers still don't seem to understand the position of most Leavers. Those of us that think this sort of thing is important don't mind alignment to similar international standards, as long as the way it is done is by UK lawmakers rather than incorporation of every new directive directly into UK law, there is no EU enforcement body and we can still sign trade deals elsewhere . It allows us to tailor the regulations to the UK context, means we can drag our feet to haggle out compromises and, if we really don't like it, refuse to incorporate it meaning the EU would have to go nuclear over a tiny issue when they have bigger fish to fry.
    Indeed. And we’ll reclaim our seat at the table of the WTO, where representing the fifth largest member we will be able to have much more of a say in these things at the global level.
  • Elliot said:

    A very interesting dilemma for the Labour leadership on Brexit. The Times is reporting that the Canada +++ deal that Davis wants will require the UK to agree significant regulatory alignment across a number of areas. That's not great news for the Brexiteers, of course. But it will also severely restrict the ability of the UK to develop state aid packages. That would be a huge problem for the far left. So it's not just Theresa May that needs to square circles.

    It's amazing that after all this time Remainers still don't seem to understand the position of most Leavers. Those of us that think this sort of thing is important don't mind alignment to similar international standards, as long as the way it is done is by UK lawmakers rather than incorporation of every new directive directly into UK law, there is no EU enforcement body and we can still sign trade deals elsewhere . It allows us to tailor the regulations to the UK context, means we can drag our feet to haggle out compromises and, if we really don't like it, refuse to incorporate it meaning the EU would have to go nuclear over a tiny issue when they have bigger fish to fry.

    Hmmm - I think we do get that. What I think you fail to understand is that you are not going to get it!

  • I see the End Of Days also applies to Italy:

    ' In October 2017, the retail trade decreased by 2.1% compared with October 2016, all store types showed decline as food retailing was down 1.7% and non-food retailing was down 2.4%.

    Estimates of the value of retail sales fell month-on-month also: -1.0% compared with September 2017. '

    http://www.istat.it/en/archive/207144
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 10,584
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    Meanwhile, in socialist paradise the opposition (presumably South America's equivalent of baby-eating Tories) have been forbidden from standing for election:

    Now why didn’t we think of that in the last election!
    If Corbyn gets in I expect he may be thinking of it for his re election, after all we don't want misguided voters in the bread queue letting false consciousness put the Tories back in!
    I am sure that Corbyn will think the extremes Maduro has gone to re banning parties are wrong. Whether he will say so is another matter - it won't win him any praise from the right who will ask what took so long, and none from the far left either who no doubt think Maduro's only flaw is not being as great as Chavez.
    I don't think it's necessary for him to give a running public commentary, and if I were him I wouldn't want to, though I'd have a word with any Venezuelan contacts that this sort of thing is deeply undesirable. The problem for anti-imperialists is that there really are global pressures deliberately targeted at people like Maduro, *and* his reaction really is completely indefensible. Because of the first we don't want to help pile in, and because of the second we don't want to be supportive. Any nuanced statement will get filleted and extracts spun, so really it's a no-win.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,540
    edited December 2017
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    From reading the last thread, I hope BAe haven’t messed up relations with Saudi and UAE by selling Typhoons to the Qataris.

    Politics in the Gulf is a little fragile now, with Qatar and Iran arming the rebels in Yemen against the rest of the regional powers. Arming both sides of a war is great for business if you can get away with it, but if not done with extreme care it can get very messy very quickly!

    Well Qatar are replacing 12x Mir2k with 36x F-15QA, 36x Rafale and 24x EF so it's safe to say they are expecting a very big mess very soon.
    That’s a worryingly large airborne arsenal for a very small country. Doesn’t bode well for stability in the region and I’m very pleased I turned down a move to Qatar last year...
    Sound more like three separate airforces. If they were expecting to be fighting a war, they'd be putting together something a little easier to integrate, surely ?
    More likely an attempt to purchase political/diplomatic support.
    That’s an interesting take on it, that I hadn’t considered. It would be somewhat surprising if the US and U.K. didn’t throw them under a bus in a row with their much larger and more important neighbours though - although some leverage is obviously better than none in these situations.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 10,584

    A very interesting dilemma for the Labour leadership on Brexit. The Times is reporting that the Canada +++ deal that Davis wants will require the UK to agree significant regulatory alignment across a number of areas. That's not great news for the Brexiteers, of course. But it will also severely restrict the ability of the UK to develop state aid packages. That would be a huge problem for the far left. So it's not just Theresa May that needs to square circles.

    Anything which limits the powers of the loony left (and loony right) is probably a good thing.
    Not so keen on taking back control if our elected government wants to do something you disagree with?
  • ElliotElliot Posts: 1,476

    Elliot said:

    A very interesting dilemma for the Labour leadership on Brexit. The Times is reporting that the Canada +++ deal that Davis wants will require the UK to agree significant regulatory alignment across a number of areas. That's not great news for the Brexiteers, of course. But it will also severely restrict the ability of the UK to develop state aid packages. That would be a huge problem for the far left. So it's not just Theresa May that needs to square circles.

    It's amazing that after all this time Remainers still don't seem to understand the position of most Leavers. Those of us that think this sort of thing is important don't mind alignment to similar international standards, as long as the way it is done is by UK lawmakers rather than incorporation of every new directive directly into UK law, there is no EU enforcement body and we can still sign trade deals elsewhere . It allows us to tailor the regulations to the UK context, means we can drag our feet to haggle out compromises and, if we really don't like it, refuse to incorporate it meaning the EU would have to go nuclear over a tiny issue when they have bigger fish to fry.

    Hmmm - I think we do get that. What I think you fail to understand is that you are not going to get it!

    I'm pretty sure similar things were said on eliminating the jurisdiction of the ECJ and ending FoM.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 2,326
    Elliot said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    Meanwhile, in socialist paradise the opposition (presumably South America's equivalent of baby-eating Tories) have been forbidden from standing for election:

    Now why didn’t we think of that in the last election!
    If Corbyn gets in I expect he may be thinking of it for his re election, after all we don't want misguided voters in the bread queue letting false consciousness put the Tories back in!
    I am sure that Corbyn will think the extremes Maduro has gone to re banning parties are wrong. Whether he will say so is another matter - it won't win him any praise from the right who will ask what took so long, and none from the far left either who no doubt think Maduro's only flaw is not being as great as Chavez.
    Why are you so sure? Corbyn has long supported the Venezuelan socialists, as he does with all "anti-imperialists", regardless of their tactics. Look at his past close relationship with the Iranian regime for goodness sake.

    I know this is all a partisan bun fight to many on here, but it really isn't to people from these countries. I have had relations disappeared in Iran. No doubt they were tortured before being thrown in a pit somewhere but my family will likely never know.
    Thanks @RobD :smiley:

    This is what is genuinely scary about McDonnell, Milne etc. They would not shrink from utterly debauching our system of government to stay in power. They will make the Tories look like bunny rabbits.
  • TonyETonyE Posts: 938

    A very interesting dilemma for the Labour leadership on Brexit. The Times is reporting that the Canada +++ deal that Davis wants will require the UK to agree significant regulatory alignment across a number of areas. That's not great news for the Brexiteers, of course. But it will also severely restrict the ability of the UK to develop state aid packages. That would be a huge problem for the far left. So it's not just Theresa May that needs to square circles.

    Significant regulatory alignment of course relates to exported items and services. But what about Environment, Labour, internal services, etc. These are areas where the EU's one size fits all level of regulating has been the cause of poor policy decisions, or at least restricted ones. Environment is a bit of a bugbear of mine - especially in terms of flood management, rivers and areas like the Somerset levels. So how deep does regulatory alignment go.

    State aid packages are a bit of a difficult area, because they don't only have EU hurdles to jump. EU law allows for some subsidy where the industry is deemed 'strategically important'. WTO rules are a little more flexible. So for example, for security reasons there is some leeway on Steel, Aerospace etc - items that might be deemed important for defence.
  • Mr. Sandpit, be fair. It's not like there's a recent example of major financial institutions stupidly investing in things they don't understand and are wildly overvalued.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 2,326

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    Meanwhile, in socialist paradise the opposition (presumably South America's equivalent of baby-eating Tories) have been forbidden from standing for election:

    Now why didn’t we think of that in the last election!
    If Corbyn gets in I expect he may be thinking of it for his re election, after all we don't want misguided voters in the bread queue letting false consciousness put the Tories back in!
    I am sure that Corbyn will think the extremes Maduro has gone to re banning parties are wrong. Whether he will say so is another matter - it won't win him any praise from the right who will ask what took so long, and none from the far left either who no doubt think Maduro's only flaw is not being as great as Chavez.
    I don't think it's necessary for him to give a running public commentary, and if I were him I wouldn't want to, though I'd have a word with any Venezuelan contacts that this sort of thing is deeply undesirable. The problem for anti-imperialists is that there really are global pressures deliberately targeted at people like Maduro, *and* his reaction really is completely indefensible. Because of the first we don't want to help pile in, and because of the second we don't want to be supportive. Any nuanced statement will get filleted and extracts spun, so really it's a no-win.
    Undesirable? Undesirable?

    I think this comment and your actions over the Lisbon Treaty show how your commitment to democracy is less than total. It's not uncommon on the left.
  • ElliotElliot Posts: 1,476

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    Meanwhile, in socialist paradise the opposition (presumably South America's equivalent of baby-eating Tories) have been forbidden from standing for election:

    Now why didn’t we think of that in the last election!
    If Corbyn gets in I expect he may be thinking of it for his re election, after all we don't want misguided voters in the bread queue letting false consciousness put the Tories back in!
    I am sure that Corbyn will think the extremes Maduro has gone to re banning parties are wrong. Whether he will say so is another matter - it won't win him any praise from the right who will ask what took so long, and none from the far left either who no doubt think Maduro's only flaw is not being as great as Chavez.
    I don't think it's necessary for him to give a running public commentary, and if I were him I wouldn't want to, though I'd have a word with any Venezuelan contacts that this sort of thing is deeply undesirable. The problem for anti-imperialists is that there really are global pressures deliberately targeted at people like Maduro, *and* his reaction really is completely indefensible. Because of the first we don't want to help pile in, and because of the second we don't want to be supportive. Any nuanced statement will get filleted and extracts spun, so really it's a no-win.
    Condemning the abolition of democracy is having to give an "unnecessary" "running public commentary". This is a crystal clear example of how Corbynism has degraded the ethical principles of the British left. Corbyn will condemn moderate conservatives in the most extreme terms while looking the other way to brutal dictators as long as they are left wing. And the rest of the Labour Party remains silent or excuses his actions. Shame on you Mr Palmer. I am glad you are an ex-MP.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 11,364
    Sandpit said:

    Ally_B said:

    Sandpit said:

    Mr. Sandpit, could you explain in layman's terms how Bitcoin and similar things work?

    Here’s a reasonable summary, written a few months ago.
    https://www.thewrap.com/bitcoin-charges-towards-2000-what-the-hell-is-it/
    It’s basically virtual currency, created by a network of computers churning through difficult maths problems - rather than by a government, central bank or other regulated authority.
    So its a tulip bulb?
    I am not a financial advisor blah blah blah.

    Yes, it’s a 21st Century tulip bulb.
    Hnn. Somneone suggested me doing something with them. I thought then, and I think now, understading them a bit more, thanks to Mr S, that there isn’t a bargepole long enough. Or something!.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,540

    Sandpit said:

    Ally_B said:

    Sandpit said:

    Mr. Sandpit, could you explain in layman's terms how Bitcoin and similar things work?

    Here’s a reasonable summary, written a few months ago.
    https://www.thewrap.com/bitcoin-charges-towards-2000-what-the-hell-is-it/
    It’s basically virtual currency, created by a network of computers churning through difficult maths problems - rather than by a government, central bank or other regulated authority.
    So its a tulip bulb?
    I am not a financial advisor blah blah blah.

    Yes, it’s a 21st Century tulip bulb.
    Hnn. Somneone suggested me doing something with them. I thought then, and I think now, understading them a bit more, thanks to Mr S, that there isn’t a bargepole long enough. Or something!.
    As with all these things, the way to make big money was to have been in Bitcoin several years ago. They could of course double in value again next week, but there’s now a very long way for them to fall.
  • TonyE said:

    A very interesting dilemma for the Labour leadership on Brexit. The Times is reporting that the Canada +++ deal that Davis wants will require the UK to agree significant regulatory alignment across a number of areas. That's not great news for the Brexiteers, of course. But it will also severely restrict the ability of the UK to develop state aid packages. That would be a huge problem for the far left. So it's not just Theresa May that needs to square circles.

    Significant regulatory alignment of course relates to exported items and services. But what about Environment, Labour, internal services, etc. These are areas where the EU's one size fits all level of regulating has been the cause of poor policy decisions, or at least restricted ones. Environment is a bit of a bugbear of mine - especially in terms of flood management, rivers and areas like the Somerset levels. So how deep does regulatory alignment go.

    State aid packages are a bit of a difficult area, because they don't only have EU hurdles to jump. EU law allows for some subsidy where the industry is deemed 'strategically important'. WTO rules are a little more flexible. So for example, for security reasons there is some leeway on Steel, Aerospace etc - items that might be deemed important for defence.

    "Senior European diplomats and officials have said, however, that Britain would need to accept a series of EU rules, including environmental regulations, labour standards and competition law, to achieve a trade deal better than the one Canada negotiated with the bloc."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/canada-plus-plus-plus-brexit-deal-could-mean-mass-of-red-tape-vjzlmq23v

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 19,831

    The Minister for Winging It ...

    http://uk.businessinsider.com/david-davis-does-not-have-to-be-clever-to-be-brexit-secretary-2017-12

    "What's the requirement of my job?" Davis asked LBC's Nick Ferrari.

    "I don't have to be very clever. I don't have to know that much. I just do have to be calm."
  • Sandpit said:

    Mr. Sandpit, could you explain in layman's terms how Bitcoin and similar things work?

    Here’s a reasonable summary, written a few months ago.
    https://www.thewrap.com/bitcoin-charges-towards-2000-what-the-hell-is-it/
    It’s basically virtual currency, created by a network of computers churning through difficult maths problems - rather than by a government, central bank or other regulated authority.
    Bitcoin uses more power than Serbia – the environmental cost of cryptocurrencies
    https://newatlas.com/bitcoin-cryptocurrency-power-consumption/52556/
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 5,538

    The Minister for Winging It ...

    http://uk.businessinsider.com/david-davis-does-not-have-to-be-clever-to-be-brexit-secretary-2017-12

    "What's the requirement of my job?" Davis asked LBC's Nick Ferrari.

    "I don't have to be very clever. I don't have to know that much. I just do have to be calm."
    That is actually true for all jobs. As John Mortimer said, all you need to succeed in the law is common sense and reasonably clean fingernails.
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 2,765

    Sandpit said:

    Mr. Sandpit, could you explain in layman's terms how Bitcoin and similar things work?

    Here’s a reasonable summary, written a few months ago.
    https://www.thewrap.com/bitcoin-charges-towards-2000-what-the-hell-is-it/
    It’s basically virtual currency, created by a network of computers churning through difficult maths problems - rather than by a government, central bank or other regulated authority.
    Bitcoin uses more power than Serbia – the environmental cost of cryptocurrencies
    https://newatlas.com/bitcoin-cryptocurrency-power-consumption/52556/
    Counterpoint:
    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-12-07/bitcoin-is-greener-than-its-critics-think#footnote-1512668309251

    I imagine it's more costly per £1 of value than fiat currency, but still...
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