European integration is largely a product of peace and security, not its cause. While the EU has helped to dampen distrust between ancient opponents, Europe is peaceful and prosperous today primarily because the UK and the US have been willing to finance sophisticated armed forces and nuclear forces to deter countries – both within and without NATO, and by extension the EU – from disrupting the status quo. Whatever role the EU has played has been at best supplemental.
England’s batting this morning or Theresa May’s ratings during the election campaign?
I think both pale in comparison with George Osborne's political career.
But's he's landed on his feet, earning inter alia 650k per year for one day a week, and a fair whack on the lecture circuit.
When Theresa May leaves Downing Street no ones going to be paying her that kind of money unless you want to to see a repeat of of 2017 Tory conference speech.
I am sure that the BBC were lecturing me just today that I really shouldn't be giving that sort of thing to my 14 year old.
Is it just me or is the idea of Advent calendars for grown ups just a little weird?
One of my colleagues has an Advent calendar from a household name insurer where the chocolates are behind pictures of the insurer's team. Festive indeed.
The vote was just illogical stupid gesture politics.
There will be a deal. It will be 'take it or leave it'.
The traitors believe that leave it means we remain and they get to overrule the public. In reality it means no deal.
I mean Max don't get me wrong, I know you are interested in all this but for someone who has f***ed off to live in a foreign (ugh!) country calling people traitors who are serving their country is, oh I don't know, a bit off, don't you think?
I get it, I was an expat for a while. Out come the Union Jack boxer shorts, the gramophone playing Land of Hope and Glory, and listening to The Archers on loop. But really.
They aren't serving their country. They are trying to overrule the public vote. Ultimately MPs answer to the public, we have instructed them to take the country out of the EU and now these 11 traitors are trying to overrule that with technicalities.
Oh dear
Epic fail to understand how a Parliamentary Democracy (like what i voted Leave for) works
England’s batting this morning or Theresa May’s ratings during the election campaign?
I think both pale in comparison with George Osborne's political career.
But's he's landed on his feet, earning inter alia 650k per year for one day a week, and a fair whack on the lecture circuit.
When Theresa May leaves Downing Street no ones going to be paying her that kind of money unless you want to to see a repeat of of 2017 Tory conference speech.
Money can't buy everything - May will be an ex-PM, how much would GO have given for that?! Hahaha!
Things have changed in one major way since the referendum. Before the referendum, talk of Europe was met with bored glances. Maastricht? Some place in Belgium or Holland?
Now it stirs up interest. Hoping to slip in a no-leave leave without anyone noticing won't happen. A second referendum will bring it into sharp focus. Not so much about the result as about the political and chattering classes taking the piss.
Can I be the first to suggest that Frank Field be given a knighthood?
I still have no idea where Maastricht is. Belgium, right? Ask me to find it on a map, that said...
In The Netherlands. Site of a few battles.
Almost in Belgium, though! If the local landowner had been Catholic.....or am I too simplistic?
Things have changed in one major way since the referendum. Before the referendum, talk of Europe was met with bored glances. Maastricht? Some place in Belgium or Holland?
Now it stirs up interest. Hoping to slip in a no-leave leave without anyone noticing won't happen. A second referendum will bring it into sharp focus. Not so much about the result as about the political and chattering classes taking the piss.
Can I be the first to suggest that Frank Field be given a knighthood?
I still have no idea where Maastricht is. Belgium, right? Ask me to find it on a map, that said...
In The Netherlands. Site of a few battles.
The last part of the Cretacous period is named after it, the Maastrichtian. Ended when the giant asteroid struck causing a mass extinction....
European integration is largely a product of peace and security, not its cause. While the EU has helped to dampen distrust between ancient opponents, Europe is peaceful and prosperous today primarily because the UK and the US have been willing to finance sophisticated armed forces and nuclear forces to deter countries – both within and without NATO, and by extension the EU – from disrupting the status quo. Whatever role the EU has played has been at best supplemental.
Things have changed in one major way since the referendum. Before the referendum, talk of Europe was met with bored glances. Maastricht? Some place in Belgium or Holland?
Now it stirs up interest. Hoping to slip in a no-leave leave without anyone noticing won't happen. A second referendum will bring it into sharp focus. Not so much about the result as about the political and chattering classes taking the piss.
Can I be the first to suggest that Frank Field be given a knighthood?
I still have no idea where Maastricht is. Belgium, right? Ask me to find it on a map, that said...
In Limburg, the hilly part of the Netherlands. Catholic in an otherwise Protestant country and a bastion of Geert WIlders, a genuinely racist politician. Pleasant city apart from that ...
Very good! But seriously, they have a dress code for business class??
Well they let me into the first class lounges, but I do have famously high standards of sartorial elegance.
Before a flight to the US a few years ago I shared a first class lounge with a pop star dressed in a tracksuit and you could have easily mistaken then for a guest on the Jeremy Kyle show.
Edit: he is of course absolutely wrong on many levels, if articulate.
A quick google gives foreign born population in Barnsley of 4% - less than half the national average. Maybe we should just give the man what he wants and see what happens.
Things have changed in one major way since the referendum. Before the referendum, talk of Europe was met with bored glances. Maastricht? Some place in Belgium or Holland?
Now it stirs up interest. Hoping to slip in a no-leave leave without anyone noticing won't happen. A second referendum will bring it into sharp focus. Not so much about the result as about the political and chattering classes taking the piss.
Can I be the first to suggest that Frank Field be given a knighthood?
I still have no idea where Maastricht is. Belgium, right? Ask me to find it on a map, that said...
In The Netherlands. Site of a few battles.
Almost in Belgium, though! If the local landowner had been Catholic.....or am I too simplistic?
The borders in that part of the world have been very mobile.
Arsene Wenger, for example, would be a German if events had turned out slightly different.
Edit: he is of course absolutely wrong on many levels, if articulate.
A quick google gives foreign born population in Barnsley of 4% - less than half the national average. Maybe we should just give the man what he wants and see what happens.
Edit: he is of course absolutely wrong on many levels, if articulate.
A quick google gives foreign born population in Barnsley of 4% - less than half the national average. Maybe we should just give the man what he wants and see what happens.
There's a reason why the rest of Yorkshire people call people from Barnsley 'Dingles'
Things have changed in one major way since the referendum. Before the referendum, talk of Europe was met with bored glances. Maastricht? Some place in Belgium or Holland?
Now it stirs up interest. Hoping to slip in a no-leave leave without anyone noticing won't happen. A second referendum will bring it into sharp focus. Not so much about the result as about the political and chattering classes taking the piss.
Can I be the first to suggest that Frank Field be given a knighthood?
I still have no idea where Maastricht is. Belgium, right? Ask me to find it on a map, that said...
In The Netherlands. Site of a few battles.
Almost in Belgium, though! If the local landowner had been Catholic.....or am I too simplistic?
The borders in that part of the world have been very mobile.
Arsene Wenger, for example, would be a German if events had turned out slightly different.
There was an interesting "Who do you think you are", with JK Rowling, some of whose family came from Alsace. Some ended up German and some French depending on what they had done after the transfer from France to Germany in 1871.
Things have changed in one major way since the referendum. Before the referendum, talk of Europe was met with bored glances. Maastricht? Some place in Belgium or Holland?
Now it stirs up interest. Hoping to slip in a no-leave leave without anyone noticing won't happen. A second referendum will bring it into sharp focus. Not so much about the result as about the political and chattering classes taking the piss.
Can I be the first to suggest that Frank Field be given a knighthood?
I still have no idea where Maastricht is. Belgium, right? Ask me to find it on a map, that said...
In The Netherlands. Site of a few battles.
Almost in Belgium, though! If the local landowner had been Catholic.....or am I too simplistic?
The borders in that part of the world have been very mobile.
Arsene Wenger, for example, would be a German if events had turned out slightly different.
Things have changed in one major way since the referendum. Before the referendum, talk of Europe was met with bored glances. Maastricht? Some place in Belgium or Holland?
Now it stirs up interest. Hoping to slip in a no-leave leave without anyone noticing won't happen. A second referendum will bring it into sharp focus. Not so much about the result as about the political and chattering classes taking the piss.
Can I be the first to suggest that Frank Field be given a knighthood?
I still have no idea where Maastricht is. Belgium, right? Ask me to find it on a map, that said...
In The Netherlands. Site of a few battles.
Almost in Belgium, though! If the local landowner had been Catholic.....or am I too simplistic?
The borders in that part of the world have been very mobile.
Arsene Wenger, for example, would be a German if events had turned out slightly different.
Edit: he is of course absolutely wrong on many levels, if articulate.
A quick google gives foreign born population in Barnsley of 4% - less than half the national average. Maybe we should just give the man what he wants and see what happens.
Well we don't know where you live to tell us.
Why does it matter where I live?
He got a big clap for saying end freedom of movement - in a place with hardly any immigrants. This seems to a common theme - places with low immigration are very opposed to immigration. I want to understand why.
Some Remainers want to stay in the single market or even reverse Brexit, some Leavers want to go straight to WTO terms and not pay the EU a penny. However most voters want a FTA with the EU that ends free movement which is precisely what May is aiming for
I don't remember that being on the ballot paper
That's why I don't get this hard/soft/medium-done Brexit business. Whatever type of Brexit you get, Government has done what it was told. It got us out of the EU. Job done.
To an extent although some of the more extreme BINO proposals ignore the spirit of the vote
What spirit? There were as many notions of Brexit as there were voters.
If there was a 'spirit' at all I should say that there was a sort of curmudgeonly 'eff 'em all attitude.
That was perfectly understandable but difficult to distil a coherent foreign and economic policy out of it.
The vote is to leave the EU. That's all.
Lots of different people have different interpretations but there comes a point with extreme BINO where you observe the letter but not the spirit
If for example, we were to leave the EU but at the same time remain members of the SM/CU, send observers with voting rights to the Council of Ministers, take all regulatory rules, pay billions of Euros a year in perpetuity sign up for membership of an EU army and agree to use the Euro then I would say that observes the letter but not the spirit of the vote
If we were to leave the EU but remain members of the SM and CU I would view it as a mistake, but not a breach of the spirit of the vote
Edit: he is of course absolutely wrong on many levels, if articulate.
A quick google gives foreign born population in Barnsley of 4% - less than half the national average. Maybe we should just give the man what he wants and see what happens.
Well we don't know where you live to tell us.
Why does it matter where I live?
He got a big clap for saying end freedom of movement - in a place with hardly any immigrants. This seems to a common theme - places with low immigration are very opposed to immigration. I want to understand why.
Mr. rkrkrk, that's partly because of white flight, and also because respondents from places with high numbers of migrants are more likely to be migrants themselves. Of course, it will also be the case that natives from such areas may well get along nicely with migrants.
A problem is talking of migration as a block, whereas there's a world of difference between migrant groups. Indians and Chinese tend to be rather good. Other groups do not (or, at least, have higher prevalence of criminality).
Edit: he is of course absolutely wrong on many levels, if articulate.
A quick google gives foreign born population in Barnsley of 4% - less than half the national average. Maybe we should just give the man what he wants and see what happens.
Well we don't know where you live to tell us.
Why does it matter where I live?
He got a big clap for saying end freedom of movement - in a place with hardly any immigrants. This seems to a common theme - places with low immigration are very opposed to immigration. I want to understand why.
Off the top of my head, maybe they want to keep it that way? Maybe they look at parts of their country which have had high immigration and are not totally enthused with the multiculturalism that thrives there?
Edit: he is of course absolutely wrong on many levels, if articulate.
A quick google gives foreign born population in Barnsley of 4% - less than half the national average. Maybe we should just give the man what he wants and see what happens.
Well we don't know where you live to tell us.
Why does it matter where I live?
He got a big clap for saying end freedom of movement - in a place with hardly any immigrants. This seems to a common theme - places with low immigration are very opposed to immigration. I want to understand why.
Off the top of my head, maybe they want to keep it that way? Maybe they look at parts of their country which have had high immigration and are not totally enthused with the multiculturalism that thrives there?
Thanks for the response. To me the tone of his point was not - Barnsley is great but we want to end FOM to preserve how it is/help out those poor londoners struggling with their multiculturalism. To me he seemed unhappy with the current situation in Barnsley - not seeking to preserve it.
Edit: he is of course absolutely wrong on many levels, if articulate.
A quick google gives foreign born population in Barnsley of 4% - less than half the national average. Maybe we should just give the man what he wants and see what happens.
Well we don't know where you live to tell us.
Why does it matter where I live?
He got a big clap for saying end freedom of movement - in a place with hardly any immigrants. This seems to a common theme - places with low immigration are very opposed to immigration. I want to understand why.
Because they are on the left hand side of the Bell Curve.
Edit: he is of course absolutely wrong on many levels, if articulate.
A quick google gives foreign born population in Barnsley of 4% - less than half the national average. Maybe we should just give the man what he wants and see what happens.
Well we don't know where you live to tell us.
Why does it matter where I live?
He got a big clap for saying end freedom of movement - in a place with hardly any immigrants. This seems to a common theme - places with low immigration are very opposed to immigration. I want to understand why.
Off the top of my head, maybe they want to keep it that way? Maybe they look at parts of their country which have had high immigration and are not totally enthused with the multiculturalism that thrives there?
Seriously? They what, drove through Bourne, saw all those white anglo-saxon protestants, or white continental catholics - and thought: uh uh, no thank you. That it?
Or perhaps you are confusing wanting to be in control of immigration (fair enough), with dislike of immigration (...).
Or perhaps you are looking at it in the wrong way - as in when people talk about multiculturalism, it ain't the white Poles buying sausage from the Polish shop on the High Street they are thinking of...
Edit: he is of course absolutely wrong on many levels, if articulate.
A quick google gives foreign born population in Barnsley of 4% - less than half the national average. Maybe we should just give the man what he wants and see what happens.
Well we don't know where you live to tell us.
Why does it matter where I live?
He got a big clap for saying end freedom of movement - in a place with hardly any immigrants. This seems to a common theme - places with low immigration are very opposed to immigration. I want to understand why.
Off the top of my head, maybe they want to keep it that way? Maybe they look at parts of their country which have had high immigration and are not totally enthused with the multiculturalism that thrives there?
That would be more persuasive if it were not for the fact that many of those places with very low immigration where people are very opposed to immigration are, not to put too fine a point on it, already shitholes.
He got a big clap for saying end freedom of movement - in a place with hardly any immigrants. This seems to a common theme - places with low immigration are very opposed to immigration. I want to understand why.
Brexit is about identity, as the article below explains quite well, I believe. Attitudes to immigration are part of those identities. Do you see freedom of movement as liberty or do you see it as an affront to nations being in control? [What Brexit actually means of course is giving power to bureaucracies and an explosion of red tape. But that's a practical issue that has nothing to do with identity]
Very good! But seriously, they have a dress code for business class??
Not if you have a ticket for business or first. If you are there by the grace of the airline or via a loyalty scheme then they usually insist on a dress code.
Edit: he is of course absolutely wrong on many levels, if articulate.
A quick google gives foreign born population in Barnsley of 4% - less than half the national average. Maybe we should just give the man what he wants and see what happens.
Well we don't know where you live to tell us.
Why does it matter where I live?
He got a big clap for saying end freedom of movement - in a place with hardly any immigrants. This seems to a common theme - places with low immigration are very opposed to immigration. I want to understand why.
Again Bradford voted leave, large immigration - Why leave ?
He got a big clap for saying end freedom of movement - in a place with hardly any immigrants. This seems to a common theme - places with low immigration are very opposed to immigration. I want to understand why.
Brexit is about identity, as the article below explains quite well, I believe. Attitudes to immigration are part of those identities. Do you see freedom of movement as liberty or do you see it as an affront to nations being in control? [What Brexit actually means of course is giving power to bureaucracies and an explosion of red tape. But that's a practical issue that has nothing to do with identity]
Very good! But seriously, they have a dress code for business class??
Not if you have a ticket for business or first. If you are there by the grace of the airline or via a loyalty scheme then they usually insist on a dress code.
Interesting. I have seen plenty of shorts and singlets in business/first class and that explains it.
Mr. rkrkrk, that's partly because of white flight, and also because respondents from places with high numbers of migrants are more likely to be migrants themselves. Of course, it will also be the case that natives from such areas may well get along nicely with migrants.
A problem is talking of migration as a block, whereas there's a world of difference between migrant groups. Indians and Chinese tend to be rather good. Other groups do not (or, at least, have higher prevalence of criminality).
None of those explanations can explain such a strong phenomenon. London for instance has something like 35% foreign born. That’s still 65% from the UK who should be ripe targets for UKIP/anti immigration sentiment. And yet nothing.
Edit: he is of course absolutely wrong on many levels, if articulate.
A quick google gives foreign born population in Barnsley of 4% - less than half the national average. Maybe we should just give the man what he wants and see what happens.
Well we don't know where you live to tell us.
Why does it matter where I live?
He got a big clap for saying end freedom of movement - in a place with hardly any immigrants. This seems to a common theme - places with low immigration are very opposed to immigration. I want to understand why.
Off the top of my head, maybe they want to keep it that way? Maybe they look at parts of their country which have had high immigration and are not totally enthused with the multiculturalism that thrives there?
That would be more persuasive if it were not for the fact that many of those places with very low immigration where people are very opposed to immigration are, not to put too fine a point on it, already shitholes.
Maybe that's not the way he sees it. Just maybe that is your metropolitan elite bias showing...Just a theory of course.
Edit: he is of course absolutely wrong on many levels, if articulate.
A quick google gives foreign born population in Barnsley of 4% - less than half the national average. Maybe we should just give the man what he wants and see what happens.
Well we don't know where you live to tell us.
Why does it matter where I live?
He got a big clap for saying end freedom of movement - in a place with hardly any immigrants. This seems to a common theme - places with low immigration are very opposed to immigration. I want to understand why.
Off the top of my head, maybe they want to keep it that way? Maybe they look at parts of their country which have had high immigration and are not totally enthused with the multiculturalism that thrives there?
The man said immigration was hurting working class people, I take that to mean wages.
@Richard_Tyndall: I've just seen your reply on the £40bn and the transition deal the other day, sorry I didn't reply then. I was going off this snippet in the Guardian's live blog on the day:
'Britain’s divorce bill is estimated to be £35bn-£39bn (€40bn-€45bn), it has been disclosed.
The UK will only pay if a wider withdrawal agreement is struck by Brexit day and there is swift agreement on a transition period. It includes the payment promised by Theresa May in her Florence speech, which she linked to a two-year “implementation period”, as she describes it. The EU is not linking the sum to the transition period, however.
If the UK wants a transition period beyond 31 December 2020, when the current seven-year EU budget ends, it will have to pay more. The EU is also leaving open the question of whether or not it will seek additional funds in return for the transition period. The money will be paid over time rather than in a lump sum.'
If our commentators are saying the £39bn includes the cost of a transition, that is not how the Europeans seem to have understood it. They're interpreting it as May agreeing to their position that her initial £18bn offer should be doubled before the second stage could be begun, without linking the extra to the transition period (because for them it wasn't within the scope of the first stage).
Edit: he is of course absolutely wrong on many levels, if articulate.
A quick google gives foreign born population in Barnsley of 4% - less than half the national average. Maybe we should just give the man what he wants and see what happens.
Well we don't know where you live to tell us.
Why does it matter where I live?
He got a big clap for saying end freedom of movement - in a place with hardly any immigrants. This seems to a common theme - places with low immigration are very opposed to immigration. I want to understand why.
Off the top of my head, maybe they want to keep it that way? Maybe they look at parts of their country which have had high immigration and are not totally enthused with the multiculturalism that thrives there?
That would be more persuasive if it were not for the fact that many of those places with very low immigration where people are very opposed to immigration are, not to put too fine a point on it, already shitholes.
Maybe that's not the way he sees it. Just maybe that is your metropolitan elite bias showing...Just a theory of course.
Perhaps. As a metropolitan elitist, I'd rather spend time in London, Brighton, Cambridge or Edinburgh than Barnsley, Clacton or Stoke-on-Trent. Tourism figures would show that there are more metropolitan elitists out there than are commonly suspected.
Very good! But seriously, they have a dress code for business class??
Not if you have a ticket for business or first. If you are there by the grace of the airline or via a loyalty scheme then they usually insist on a dress code.
He got a big clap for saying end freedom of movement - in a place with hardly any immigrants. This seems to a common theme - places with low immigration are very opposed to immigration. I want to understand why.
Brexit is about identity, as the article below explains quite well, I believe. Attitudes to immigration are part of those identities. Do you see freedom of movement as liberty or do you see it as an affront to nations being in control? [What Brexit actually means of course is giving power to bureaucracies and an explosion of red tape. But that's a practical issue that has nothing to do with identity]
Very good! But seriously, they have a dress code for business class??
Not if you have a ticket for business or first. If you are there by the grace of the airline or via a loyalty scheme then they usually insist on a dress code.
Interesting. I have seen plenty of shorts and singlets in business/first class and that explains it.
Yeah, if you have paid for a ticket the airline can't really say or do anything to stop you wearing whatever you want (unless you decide to break indecency laws, of course). At the end of the day, when I pay £1300 for club class I'm not having some haughty check in attendant tell me to put shoes on rather than my converse. If I'm flying cattle but want to use my EC membership to go into the lounge they are well within their rights to tell me to put shoes on.
He got a big clap for saying end freedom of movement - in a place with hardly any immigrants. This seems to a common theme - places with low immigration are very opposed to immigration. I want to understand why.
Brexit is about identity, as the article below explains quite well, I believe. Attitudes to immigration are part of those identities. Do you see freedom of movement as liberty or do you see it as an affront to nations being in control? [What Brexit actually means of course is giving power to bureaucracies and an explosion of red tape. But that's a practical issue that has nothing to do with identity]
I'm struggling to understand what is so Libertarian about being told what to do by the PM of Luxembourg.
Laters....
We're only being told what to do by the PM of Luxembourg because we have realised, or about to realise, that as long as the EU "owns" Europe we have no good alternative to a close relationship with the EU on its terms. Which means the PM of Luxembourg gets a say over our affairs that he wouldn't have had if we had remained in the EU. You voted Leave, but want a close relationship with the EU, I believe? Luxembourg, the Irish etc telling us what's what is the consequence of that contradiction.
Very good! But seriously, they have a dress code for business class??
Not if you have a ticket for business or first. If you are there by the grace of the airline or via a loyalty scheme then they usually insist on a dress code.
It was for access to the lounge, not the flight.
Same rules aiui. Paying customers get to wear whatever they want, executive club members have to abide by the dress code.
As a child of immigrants myself, I have very little issue with immigration, but that's because I hve very little traditionally British cultural heritage. However, I can understand that people of a more culturally British family background would be sensitive to feeling it was under threat. When people look at these people and call them idiots on the left hand side of the bell curve who live in shitholes, I just find it ugly, intolerant politics. It's little better than the Momentum yobs that have taken over the Labour Party or the right wing UKIP bigots. It's all about dividing the country into tribes and throwing abuse at those in other ones.
Edit: he is of course absolutely wrong on many levels, if articulate.
A quick google gives foreign born population in Barnsley of 4% - less than half the national average. Maybe we should just give the man what he wants and see what happens.
Well we don't know where you live to tell us.
Why does it matter where I live?
He got a big clap for saying end freedom of movement - in a place with hardly any immigrants. This seems to a common theme - places with low immigration are very opposed to immigration. I want to understand why.
Again Bradford voted leave, large immigration - Why leave ?
I’m interestwd in the low immigration - opposition to immigration phenomenon.
I’m not saying all places with high immigration are in favour.
As for bradford - my understanding is that most immigration there is from outside the EU.
Very good! But seriously, they have a dress code for business class??
Not if you have a ticket for business or first. If you are there by the grace of the airline or via a loyalty scheme then they usually insist on a dress code.
It was for access to the lounge, not the flight.
Same rules aiui. Paying customers get to wear whatever they want, executive club members have to abide by the dress code.
Edit: he is of course absolutely wrong on many levels, if articulate.
A quick google gives foreign born population in Barnsley of 4% - less than half the national average. Maybe we should just give the man what he wants and see what happens.
Well we don't know where you live to tell us.
Why does it matter where I live?
He got a big clap for saying end freedom of movement - in a place with hardly any immigrants. This seems to a common theme - places with low immigration are very opposed to immigration. I want to understand why.
Again Bradford voted leave, large immigration - Why leave ?
I’m interestwd in the low immigration - opposition to immigration phenomenon.
I’m not saying all places with high immigration are in favour.
As for bradford - my understanding is that most immigration there is from outside the EU.
Very good! But seriously, they have a dress code for business class??
Not if you have a ticket for business or first. If you are there by the grace of the airline or via a loyalty scheme then they usually insist on a dress code.
It was for access to the lounge, not the flight.
Same rules aiui. Paying customers get to wear whatever they want, executive club members have to abide by the dress code.
Not for the Qantas lounge, apparently!
Yeah, that's a bit mental, if you've paid for club class then you should be able to use all of the services within the club class provision in whatever clothes you want.
Very good! But seriously, they have a dress code for business class??
Not if you have a ticket for business or first. If you are there by the grace of the airline or via a loyalty scheme then they usually insist on a dress code.
It was for access to the lounge, not the flight.
Same rules aiui. Paying customers get to wear whatever they want, executive club members have to abide by the dress code.
Not for the Qantas lounge, apparently!
Yeah, that's a bit mental, if you've paid for club class then you should be able to use all of the services within the club class provision in whatever clothes you want.
Not sure why it gives you that right? All you’ve paid for is carriage between two cities.
Edit: he is of course absolutely wrong on many levels, if articulate.
A quick google gives foreign born population in Barnsley of 4% - less than half the national average. Maybe we should just give the man what he wants and see what happens.
Well we don't know where you live to tell us.
Why does it matter where I live?
He got a big clap for saying end freedom of movement - in a place with hardly any immigrants. This seems to a common theme - places with low immigration are very opposed to immigration. I want to understand why.
Again Bradford voted leave, large immigration - Why leave ?
I’m interestwd in the low immigration - opposition to immigration phenomenon.
I’m not saying all places with high immigration are in favour.
As for bradford - my understanding is that most immigration there is from outside the EU.
Not where I live in recent years,low skilled immigration from the EU (Eastern europe)
The quality of life where I live was already poor but some bright spark had the idea to make it poorer.
As a child of immigrants myself, I have very little issue with immigration, but that's because I hve very little traditionally British cultural heritage. However, I can understand that people of a more culturally British family background would be sensitive to feeling it was under threat. When people look at these people and call them idiots on the left hand side of the bell curve who live in shitholes, I just find it ugly, intolerant politics. It's little better than the Momentum yobs that have taken over the Labour Party or the right wing UKIP bigots. It's all about dividing the country into tribes and throwing abuse at those in other ones.
'It's little better than the Momentum yobs that have taken over the Labour Party or the right wing UKIP bigots. It's all about dividing the country into tribes and throwing abuse at those in other ones.'
The first sentence being a pretty good application of the second sentence, well done.
Edit: he is of course absolutely wrong on many levels, if articulate.
A quick google gives foreign born population in Barnsley of 4% - less than half the national average. Maybe we should just give the man what he wants and see what happens.
Well we don't know where you live to tell us.
Why does it matter where I live?
He got a big clap for saying end freedom of movement - in a place with hardly any immigrants. This seems to a common theme - places with low immigration are very opposed to immigration. I want to understand why.
Again Bradford voted leave, large immigration - Why leave ?
I’m interestwd in the low immigration - opposition to immigration phenomenon.
I’m not saying all places with high immigration are in favour.
As for bradford - my understanding is that most immigration there is from outside the EU.
Not where I live in recent years,low skilled immigration from the EU (Eastern europe)
The quality of life where I live was already poor but some bright spark had the idea to make it poorer.
OK that is interesting. So contradicting the Daily Mash piece - someone it has personally affected. In what way has it done so?
Very good! But seriously, they have a dress code for business class??
Not if you have a ticket for business or first. If you are there by the grace of the airline or via a loyalty scheme then they usually insist on a dress code.
It was for access to the lounge, not the flight.
Same rules aiui. Paying customers get to wear whatever they want, executive club members have to abide by the dress code.
Not for the Qantas lounge, apparently!
Yeah, that's a bit mental, if you've paid for club class then you should be able to use all of the services within the club class provision in whatever clothes you want.
Not sure why it gives you that right? All you’ve paid for is carriage between two cities.
It depends on what it says when you book it. If it says it includes use of the business lounge then they should let you in (BA do).
Very good! But seriously, they have a dress code for business class??
Not if you have a ticket for business or first. If you are there by the grace of the airline or via a loyalty scheme then they usually insist on a dress code.
It was for access to the lounge, not the flight.
Same rules aiui. Paying customers get to wear whatever they want, executive club members have to abide by the dress code.
Not for the Qantas lounge, apparently!
Yeah, that's a bit mental, if you've paid for club class then you should be able to use all of the services within the club class provision in whatever clothes you want.
Not sure why it gives you that right? All you’ve paid for is carriage between two cities.
It depends on what it says when you book it. If it says it includes use of the business lounge then they should let you in (BA do).
It probably also said there was a dress code when she booked it.
Very good! But seriously, they have a dress code for business class??
Not if you have a ticket for business or first. If you are there by the grace of the airline or via a loyalty scheme then they usually insist on a dress code.
It was for access to the lounge, not the flight.
Same rules aiui. Paying customers get to wear whatever they want, executive club members have to abide by the dress code.
Not for the Qantas lounge, apparently!
Yeah, that's a bit mental, if you've paid for club class then you should be able to use all of the services within the club class provision in whatever clothes you want.
Not sure why it gives you that right? All you’ve paid for is carriage between two cities.
It depends on what it says when you book it. If it says it includes use of the business lounge then they should let you in (BA do).
It probably also said there was a dress code when she booked it.
As a child of immigrants myself, I have very little issue with immigration, but that's because I hve very little traditionally British cultural heritage. However, I can understand that people of a more culturally British family background would be sensitive to feeling it was under threat. When people look at these people and call them idiots on the left hand side of the bell curve who live in shitholes, I just find it ugly, intolerant politics. It's little better than the Momentum yobs that have taken over the Labour Party or the right wing UKIP bigots. It's all about dividing the country into tribes and throwing abuse at those in other ones.
To be clear, my view of the Brexit vote is that it was driven in such places precisely because the locals perceived them as failing - shitholes, if you like. The vote in such areas was at least as much a product of austerity as anti-immigration sentiment. In such places, the vote was not a product of people defensively protecting an area that they were proud of but desperately casting around for solutions to stop things getting still worse.
The really interesting question is why prosperous areas in the south voted for Leave in such large numbers. That was a much more unusual phenomenon, but is much less remarked upon.
@Richard_Tyndall: I've just seen your reply on the £40bn and the transition deal the other day, sorry I didn't reply then. I was going off this snippet in the Guardian's live blog on the day:
'Britain’s divorce bill is estimated to be £35bn-£39bn (€40bn-€45bn), it has been disclosed.
The UK will only pay if a wider withdrawal agreement is struck by Brexit day and there is swift agreement on a transition period. It includes the payment promised by Theresa May in her Florence speech, which she linked to a two-year “implementation period”, as she describes it. The EU is not linking the sum to the transition period, however.
If the UK wants a transition period beyond 31 December 2020, when the current seven-year EU budget ends, it will have to pay more. The EU is also leaving open the question of whether or not it will seek additional funds in return for the transition period. The money will be paid over time rather than in a lump sum.'
If our commentators are saying the £39bn includes the cost of a transition, that is not how the Europeans seem to have understood it. They're interpreting it as May agreeing to their position that her initial £18bn offer should be doubled before the second stage could be begun, without linking the extra to the transition period (because for them it wasn't within the scope of the first stage).
I don't know what the legal position is, though.
I wouldn't expect payments to be massively bigger than already agreed to cover the first two years of transition. That's because we are committed to pay up to 2020 anyway. I note one of the ways the UK government has massaged the €60 billion estimate to £39 billion is to pay a chunk of the exit fee early, before we leave the EU in 2019, so the remainder is made smaller.
Very good! But seriously, they have a dress code for business class??
Not if you have a ticket for business or first. If you are there by the grace of the airline or via a loyalty scheme then they usually insist on a dress code.
It was for access to the lounge, not the flight.
Same rules aiui. Paying customers get to wear whatever they want, executive club members have to abide by the dress code.
Not for the Qantas lounge, apparently!
Yeah, that's a bit mental, if you've paid for club class then you should be able to use all of the services within the club class provision in whatever clothes you want.
Not sure why it gives you that right? All you’ve paid for is carriage between two cities.
It depends on what it says when you book it. If it says it includes use of the business lounge then they should let you in (BA do).
It probably also said there was a dress code when she booked it.
He got a big clap for saying end freedom of movement - in a place with hardly any immigrants. This seems to a common theme - places with low immigration are very opposed to immigration. I want to understand why.
Brexit is about identity, as the article below explains quite well, I believe. Attitudes to immigration are part of those identities. Do you see freedom of movement as liberty or do you see it as an affront to nations being in control? [What Brexit actually means of course is giving power to bureaucracies and an explosion of red tape. But that's a practical issue that has nothing to do with identity]
I'm struggling to understand what is so Libertarian about being told what to do by the PM of Luxembourg.
Laters....
We're only being told what to do by the PM of Luxembourg because we have realised, or about to realise, that as long as the EU "owns" Europe we have no good alternative to a close relationship with the EU on its terms. Which means the PM of Luxembourg gets a say over our affairs that he wouldn't have had if we had remained in the EU. You voted Leave, but want a close relationship with the EU, I believe? Luxembourg, the Irish etc telling us what's what is the consequence of that contradiction.
As James Connolly said: 'If you remove the English army tomorrow and hoist the green flag over Dublin Castle, unless you set about the organization of the Socialist Republic your efforts would be in vain. England would still rule you. She would rule you through her capitalists, through her landlords, through her financiers, through the whole array of commercial and individualist institutions she has planted in this country and watered with the tears of our mothers and the blood of our martyrs.'
How do you reconcile an integrated world economy that makes us all interdependent, alongside a desire for national sovereignty? We'll be alone in our little rowing boat getting tossed about by a stormy sea, free to row impotently in whatever direction we like, and we'll call it national sovereignty.
Very good! But seriously, they have a dress code for business class??
Not if you have a ticket for business or first. If you are there by the grace of the airline or via a loyalty scheme then they usually insist on a dress code.
It was for access to the lounge, not the flight.
Same rules aiui. Paying customers get to wear whatever they want, executive club members have to abide by the dress code.
Not for the Qantas lounge, apparently!
Yeah, that's a bit mental, if you've paid for club class then you should be able to use all of the services within the club class provision in whatever clothes you want.
Not sure why it gives you that right? All you’ve paid for is carriage between two cities.
It depends on what it says when you book it. If it says it includes use of the business lounge then they should let you in (BA do).
It probably also said there was a dress code when she booked it.
Very good! But seriously, they have a dress code for business class??
Not if you have a ticket for business or first. If you are there by the grace of the airline or via a loyalty scheme then they usually insist on a dress code.
It was for access to the lounge, not the flight.
Same rules aiui. Paying customers get to wear whatever they want, executive club members have to abide by the dress code.
Not for the Qantas lounge, apparently!
Yeah, that's a bit mental, if you've paid for club class then you should be able to use all of the services within the club class provision in whatever clothes you want.
Not sure why it gives you that right? All you’ve paid for is carriage between two cities.
It depends on what it says when you book it. If it says it includes use of the business lounge then they should let you in (BA do).
It probably also said there was a dress code when she booked it.
Very good! But seriously, they have a dress code for business class??
Not if you have a ticket for business or first. If you are there by the grace of the airline or via a loyalty scheme then they usually insist on a dress code.
It was for access to the lounge, not the flight.
Same rules aiui. Paying customers get to wear whatever they want, executive club members have to abide by the dress code.
Not for the Qantas lounge, apparently!
Yeah, that's a bit mental, if you've paid for club class then you should be able to use all of the services within the club class provision in whatever clothes you want.
Not sure why it gives you that right? All you’ve paid for is carriage between two cities.
It depends on what it says when you book it. If it says it includes use of the business lounge then they should let you in (BA do).
It probably also said there was a dress code when she booked it.
He got a big clap for saying end freedom of movement - in a place with hardly any immigrants. This seems to a common theme - places with low immigration are very opposed to immigration. I want to understand why.
Brexit is about identity, as the article below explains quite well, I believe. Attitudes to immigration are part of those identities. Do you see freedom of movement as liberty or do you see it as an affront to nations being in control? [What Brexit actually means of course is giving power to bureaucracies and an explosion of red tape. But that's a practical issue that has nothing to do with identity]
I'm struggling to understand what is so Libertarian about being told what to do by the PM of Luxembourg.
Laters....
We're only being told what to do by the PM of Luxembourg because we have realised, or about to realise, that as long as the EU "owns" Europe we have no good alternative to a close relationship with the EU on its terms. Which means the PM of Luxembourg gets a say over our affairs that he wouldn't have had if we had remained in the EU. You voted Leave, but want a close relationship with the EU, I believe? Luxembourg, the Irish etc telling us what's what is the consequence of that contradiction.
Except in the situations where countries still have a veto, then he’d still have a say over our affairs even if we were in the EU.
Edit: he is of course absolutely wrong on many levels, if articulate.
A quick google gives foreign born population in Barnsley of 4% - less than half the national average. Maybe we should just give the man what he wants and see what happens.
Well we don't know where you live to tell us.
Why does it matter where I live?
He got a big clap for saying end freedom of movement - in a place with hardly any immigrants. This seems to a common theme - places with low immigration are very opposed to immigration. I want to understand why.
Again Bradford voted leave, large immigration - Why leave ?
I’m interestwd in the low immigration - opposition to immigration phenomenon.
I’m not saying all places with high immigration are in favour.
As for bradford - my understanding is that most immigration there is from outside the EU.
Not where I live in recent years,low skilled immigration from the EU (Eastern europe)
The quality of life where I live was already poor but some bright spark had the idea to make it poorer.
Postwar there was significant immigration from Poland and the Ukraine, too (the number of Catholic churches and schools is a clue...). And before that, Germany.
Edit: he is of course absolutely wrong on many levels, if articulate.
A quick google gives foreign born population in Barnsley of 4% - less than half the national average. Maybe we should just give the man what he wants and see what happens.
Well we don't know where you live to tell us.
Why does it matter where I live?
He got a big clap for saying end freedom of movement - in a place with hardly any immigrants. This seems to a common theme - places with low immigration are very opposed to immigration. I want to understand why.
Again Bradford voted leave, large immigration - Why leave ?
I’m interestwd in the low immigration - opposition to immigration phenomenon.
I’m not saying all places with high immigration are in favour.
As for bradford - my understanding is that most immigration there is from outside the EU.
Not where I live in recent years,low skilled immigration from the EU (Eastern europe)
The quality of life where I live was already poor but some bright spark had the idea to make it poorer.
OK that is interesting. So contradicting the Daily Mash piece - someone it has personally affected. In what way has it done so?
Health for one,the sign up by people from eastern europe at the local health centre, you be lucky to see a doc.
I could go on but work to do,not forgetting transport, schools and the low skilled we let in ,so they all have jobs ? My area says different.
Like I said,it comes down to the quality of life for me.
Edit: he is of course absolutely wrong on many levels, if articulate.
A quick google gives foreign born population in Barnsley of 4% - less than half the national average. Maybe we should just give the man what he wants and see what happens.
Well we don't know where you live to tell us.
Why does it matter where I live?
He got a big clap for saying end freedom of movement - in a place with hardly any immigrants. This seems to a common theme - places with low immigration are very opposed to immigration. I want to understand why.
Again Bradford voted leave, large immigration - Why leave ?
I’m interestwd in the low immigration - opposition to immigration phenomenon.
I’m not saying all places with high immigration are in favour.
As for bradford - my understanding is that most immigration there is from outside the EU.
Not where I live in recent years,low skilled immigration from the EU (Eastern europe)
The quality of life where I live was already poor but some bright spark had the idea to make it poorer.
OK that is interesting. So contradicting the Daily Mash piece - someone it has personally affected. In what way has it done so?
Health for one,the sign up by people from eastern europe at the local health centre, you be lucky to see a doc.
I could go on but work to do,not forgetting transport, schools and the low skilled we let in ,so they all have jobs ? My area says different.
Like I said,it comes down to the quality of life for me.
So you can't get to see a doc if you phone up for an appointment? That is a real effect. The others, would be very interested when you have some time to post in more detail.
@Richard_Tyndall: I've just seen your reply on the £40bn and the transition deal the other day, sorry I didn't reply then. I was going off this snippet in the Guardian's live blog on the day:
'Britain’s divorce bill is estimated to be £35bn-£39bn (€40bn-€45bn), it has been disclosed.
The UK will only pay if a wider withdrawal agreement is struck by Brexit day and there is swift agreement on a transition period. It includes the payment promised by Theresa May in her Florence speech, which she linked to a two-year “implementation period”, as she describes it. The EU is not linking the sum to the transition period, however.
If the UK wants a transition period beyond 31 December 2020, when the current seven-year EU budget ends, it will have to pay more. The EU is also leaving open the question of whether or not it will seek additional funds in return for the transition period. The money will be paid over time rather than in a lump sum.'
If our commentators are saying the £39bn includes the cost of a transition, that is not how the Europeans seem to have understood it. They're interpreting it as May agreeing to their position that her initial £18bn offer should be doubled before the second stage could be begun, without linking the extra to the transition period (because for them it wasn't within the scope of the first stage).
I don't know what the legal position is, though.
I wouldn't expect payments to be massively bigger than already agreed to cover the first two years of transition. That's because we are committed to pay up to 2020 anyway. I note one of the ways the UK government has massaged the €60 billion estimate to £39 billion is to pay a chunk of the exit fee early, before we leave the EU in 2019, so the remainder is made smaller.
The £100bn (against which it seems small) floated by the FT people was liabilities rather than the final settlement, and actually translated into what we actually got:
'Alex Barker and George Parker of the Financial Times says of the same negotiations that the UK will assume liabilities “worth up to €100bn” (£88bn). However, he says that the net figure (after deductions for payments made to the UK) could fall to less than half of that – “with the UK side pressing for an implied figure of €40-45bn” (£35-£40bn).'
It's the upper end of an estimate regarded previously as unreasonably high, and she's applauded for it. Plus, it's not even final (even if, as you think, the extra will be small). Just baffling.
Comments
European integration is largely a product of peace and security, not its cause. While the EU has helped to dampen distrust between ancient opponents, Europe is peaceful and prosperous today primarily because the UK and the US have been willing to finance sophisticated armed forces and nuclear forces to deter countries – both within and without NATO, and by extension the EU – from disrupting the status quo. Whatever role the EU has played has been at best supplemental.
http://henryjacksonsociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/HJS-Policy-Briefing-What-the-EU-Owes-the-UK-Final.pdf
same as yesterdays
and the day befores
and the day before that .........
When Theresa May leaves Downing Street no ones going to be paying her that kind of money unless you want to to see a repeat of of 2017 Tory conference speech.
https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/941587130014367744
the attraction of advent calendars is their variety, something new each day
https://gizmodo.com/behold-the-most-hilarious-wildlife-photos-of-2017-1821301269
Is it just me or is the idea of Advent calendars for grown ups just a little weird?
In fairness, the chocolates are very good.
A promotion?
Epic fail to understand how a Parliamentary Democracy (like what i voted Leave for) works
I can sell you some cheap pitchforks
Edit: he is of course absolutely wrong on many levels, if articulate.
https://www.chathamhouse.org/expert/comment/2018-europe-s-populist-challenges-will-continue
You can also add the north to your west York ban from London ;-)
I loved watching the panel squirm.......
... no matter how stupid it may be.
https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/941583642505117696
Liam Fox is a big HJSocialite isn't he?
Where and what exactly am I allowed?
Before a flight to the US a few years ago I shared a first class lounge with a pop star dressed in a tracksuit and you could have easily mistaken then for a guest on the Jeremy Kyle show.
Maybe we should just give the man what he wants and see what happens.
Arsene Wenger, for example, would be a German if events had turned out slightly different.
https://twitter.com/JoeTwyman/status/941616802529992704
He got a big clap for saying end freedom of movement - in a place with hardly any immigrants.
This seems to a common theme - places with low immigration are very opposed to immigration.
I want to understand why.
Lots of different people have different interpretations but there comes a point with extreme BINO where you observe the letter but not the spirit
If for example, we were to leave the EU but at the same time remain members of the SM/CU, send observers with voting rights to the Council of Ministers, take all regulatory rules, pay billions of Euros a year in perpetuity sign up for membership of an EU army and agree to use the Euro then I would say that observes the letter but not the spirit of the vote
If we were to leave the EU but remain members of the SM and CU I would view it as a mistake, but not a breach of the spirit of the vote
thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/man-claims-hius-life-being-ruined-by-immigration-but-cant-explain-how-20170227122932
A problem is talking of migration as a block, whereas there's a world of difference between migrant groups. Indians and Chinese tend to be rather good. Other groups do not (or, at least, have higher prevalence of criminality).
To me the tone of his point was not - Barnsley is great but we want to end FOM to preserve how it is/help out those poor londoners struggling with their multiculturalism. To me he seemed unhappy with the current situation in Barnsley - not seeking to preserve it.
Or perhaps you are confusing wanting to be in control of immigration (fair enough), with dislike of immigration (...).
Or perhaps you are looking at it in the wrong way - as in when people talk about multiculturalism, it ain't the white Poles buying sausage from the Polish shop on the High Street they are thinking of...
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/940607648503869441
Nigerian man jailed for role in global email scams
David Chukwuneke Adindu tricked victims into wiring more than $25m into bank accounts he opened in China
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/15/nigerian-man-jailed-for-role-in-global-email-scams?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_b-gdnnews#link_time=1513326810
Laters....
London for instance has something like 35% foreign born. That’s still 65% from the UK who should be ripe targets for UKIP/anti immigration sentiment. And yet nothing.
You might like to read this on White flight:
https://www.understandingsociety.ac.uk/case-studies/white-flight-the-emerging-story
In Barnsley - I wonder how many people are white Londoners/from places with high immigration. My guess would be very few.
'Britain’s divorce bill is estimated to be £35bn-£39bn (€40bn-€45bn), it has been disclosed.
The UK will only pay if a wider withdrawal agreement is struck by Brexit day and there is swift agreement on a transition period. It includes the payment promised by Theresa May in her Florence speech, which she linked to a two-year “implementation period”, as she describes it. The EU is not linking the sum to the transition period, however.
If the UK wants a transition period beyond 31 December 2020, when the current seven-year EU budget ends, it will have to pay more. The EU is also leaving open the question of whether or not it will seek additional funds in return for the transition period. The money will be paid over time rather than in a lump sum.'
If our commentators are saying the £39bn includes the cost of a transition, that is not how the Europeans seem to have understood it. They're interpreting it as May agreeing to their position that her initial £18bn offer should be doubled before the second stage could be begun, without linking the extra to the transition period (because for them it wasn't within the scope of the first stage).
I don't know what the legal position is, though.
I’m not saying all places with high immigration are in favour.
As for bradford - my understanding is that most immigration there is from outside the EU.
The quality of life where I live was already poor but some bright spark had the idea to make it poorer.
The first sentence being a pretty good application of the second sentence, well done.
The really interesting question is why prosperous areas in the south voted for Leave in such large numbers. That was a much more unusual phenomenon, but is much less remarked upon.
https://ausbt.com.au/is-there-a-qantas-club-dress-code
Of course UGG boots should be banned everywhere.
How do you reconcile an integrated world economy that makes us all interdependent, alongside a desire for national sovereignty? We'll be alone in our little rowing boat getting tossed about by a stormy sea, free to row impotently in whatever direction we like, and we'll call it national sovereignty.
They actually define UGG boots as sleepwear hence the ban.
https://qantas.com/travel/airlines/qantas-club-dress-guidelines/global/en
And before that, Germany.
I could go on but work to do,not forgetting transport, schools and the low skilled we let in ,so they all have jobs ? My area says different.
Like I said,it comes down to the quality of life for me.
https://twitter.com/catalannews/status/941631783203950593
The £100bn (against which it seems small) floated by the FT people was liabilities rather than the final settlement, and actually translated into what we actually got:
'Alex Barker and George Parker of the Financial Times says of the same negotiations that the UK will assume liabilities “worth up to €100bn” (£88bn). However, he says that the net figure (after deductions for payments made to the UK) could fall to less than half of that – “with the UK side pressing for an implied figure of €40-45bn” (£35-£40bn).'
It's the upper end of an estimate regarded previously as unreasonably high, and she's applauded for it. Plus, it's not even final (even if, as you think, the extra will be small). Just baffling.