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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Damian Green resigns

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  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    rkrkrk said:

    Scott_P said:
    He’s all fart and no follow through.
    But how would the country manage without it’s part-time Brexit secretary?
    The country may well manage a lot better in negotiations as we are currently being buggered over a beer barrel in the current context. It really shows how ridiculous things have become that the PM is judged by some to be in a strengthened position when she and her team have capitulated to the EU and got NOTHING in return.
    Have you compared the EU's starting position to where we ended up?
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Is Davis on record saying he would resign ? Would really like to know.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712

    Is Davis on record saying he would resign ? Would really like to know.
    No
  • Is Davis on record saying he would resign ? Would really like to know.
    Lots of journos were told off the record by allies of David Davis that he would resign in protest.

    One journalist told me at the time.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712

    HYUFD said:

    I see Green has resigned to spend more time on porn sites........

    Now then what about Davis! He should surely resign as well as he has a record of resigning on points of principle. Indeed he triggered a by election some years ago on a point of principle. For all we know given how poorly he is negotiating he may want to quit anyway?

    Well we are now successfully through phase 1
    3 nil to the EU in the first half.

    The good thing about DD doing the negotiating is that the Brexiteers will have to own the deal.
    No we are still heading for a FTA that ends free movement which is the only way to get a trade deal and respect the Leave vote.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Charles said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Scott_P said:
    He’s all fart and no follow through.
    But how would the country manage without it’s part-time Brexit secretary?
    The country may well manage a lot better in negotiations as we are currently being buggered over a beer barrel in the current context. It really shows how ridiculous things have become that the PM is judged by some to be in a strengthened position when she and her team have capitulated to the EU and got NOTHING in return.
    Have you compared the EU's starting position to where we ended up?
    Foxinsox says 3-0 to them, though the annotated deal on politico as I recall called it more for them but that we got some things, at least three big wins according to them. But that does not sound gloomy enough for some.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-deal-document-annotated/
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    Is Davis on record saying he would resign ? Would really like to know.
    Lots of journos were told off the record by allies of David Davis that he would resign in protest.

    One journalist told me at the time.
    Resign in protest at a resignation or at a sacking though? Clearly this was in effect a sacking, but politicians and hacks live and breath such fine distinctions when switching tack.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    There are people saying TMay is being strong over this. Disagree. She is showing she is weak and folding at the first sign of trouble. Disappointing.

    Whatever Green did/did-not do wrong, the police behaviour was despicable (and if you don't think that, imagine them pulling that stunt with you). She should have held out.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    edited December 2017
    Probably hoping to receive more extravagant christmas presents from aspiring hopefuls as a result.

    Boris seems the type to gift people copies of his own books.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Anorak said:

    Off Topic:

    Watching the Trump tax cut pass the House of Representatives, I noticed the Roman fasces carved in the wall behind the speaker. I hadn't noticed it before.

    Did you mean 'faces' or 'faeces'?
    Serves me right for being smart. On the upside, I learnt a new word...
  • kle4 said:

    Is Davis on record saying he would resign ? Would really like to know.
    Lots of journos were told off the record by allies of David Davis that he would resign in protest.

    One journalist told me at the time.
    Resign in protest at a resignation or at a sacking though? Clearly this was in effect a sacking, but politicians and hacks live and breath such fine distinctions when switching tack.
    The view was if it was anything related to the rozzers illegally leaking stuff or Green forced out against his will then David Davis would quit.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Scott_P said:
    He’s all fart and no follow through.
    But how would the country manage without it’s part-time Brexit secretary?
    The country may well manage a lot better in negotiations as we are currently being buggered over a beer barrel in the current context. It really shows how ridiculous things have become that the PM is judged by some to be in a strengthened position when she and her team have capitulated to the EU and got NOTHING in return.
    Have you compared the EU's starting position to where we ended up?
    Foxinsox says 3-0 to them, though the annotated deal on politico as I recall called it more for them but that we got some things, at least three big wins according to them. But that does not sound gloomy enough for some.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-deal-document-annotated/
    Yes, the emulsified high fat offal tube is now called The British Sausage.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Scott_P said:
    He’s all fart and no follow through.
    But how would the country manage without it’s part-time Brexit secretary?
    The country may well manage a lot better in negotiations as we are currently being buggered over a beer barrel in the current context. It really shows how ridiculous things have become that the PM is judged by some to be in a strengthened position when she and her team have capitulated to the EU and got NOTHING in return.
    Have you compared the EU's starting position to where we ended up?
    Foxinsox says 3-0 to them, though the annotated deal on politico as I recall called it more for them but that we got some things, at least three big wins according to them. But that does not sound gloomy enough for some.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-deal-document-annotated/
    They got some stuff, we got some stuff. It's what happens in a negotiation
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    kle4 said:

    Is Davis on record saying he would resign ? Would really like to know.
    Lots of journos were told off the record by allies of David Davis that he would resign in protest.

    One journalist told me at the time.
    Resign in protest at a resignation or at a sacking though? Clearly this was in effect a sacking, but politicians and hacks live and breath such fine distinctions when switching tack.
    The view was if it was anything related to the rozzers illegally leaking stuff or Green forced out against his will then David Davis would quit.
    'The view was' is pretty weak stuff. I'm not saying the man didn't intimate he would resign in this type of situation, or that his ducking out of it is not backing down, but sounds like he has enough linguistic ambiguity to at least claim he did not mean he would resign in this scenario.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    kle4 said:

    Is Davis on record saying he would resign ? Would really like to know.
    Lots of journos were told off the record by allies of David Davis that he would resign in protest.

    One journalist told me at the time.
    Resign in protest at a resignation or at a sacking though? Clearly this was in effect a sacking, but politicians and hacks live and breath such fine distinctions when switching tack.
    He wasn't sacked over the porn (which was Davies's threat) but over misleading statements
  • No Breaking News yet on The Times' website ... where is everyone? It must be their Christmas party night!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Scott_P said:
    He’s all fart and no follow through.
    But how would the country manage without it’s part-time Brexit secretary?
    The country may well manage a lot better in negotiations as we are currently being buggered over a beer barrel in the current context. It really shows how ridiculous things have become that the PM is judged by some to be in a strengthened position when she and her team have capitulated to the EU and got NOTHING in return.
    Have you compared the EU's starting position to where we ended up?
    Foxinsox says 3-0 to them, though the annotated deal on politico as I recall called it more for them but that we got some things, at least three big wins according to them. But that does not sound gloomy enough for some.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-deal-document-annotated/
    Yes, the emulsified high fat offal tube is now called The British Sausage.
    Which of the things politico felt were real wins do you not think are wins?
  • kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Is Davis on record saying he would resign ? Would really like to know.
    Lots of journos were told off the record by allies of David Davis that he would resign in protest.

    One journalist told me at the time.
    Resign in protest at a resignation or at a sacking though? Clearly this was in effect a sacking, but politicians and hacks live and breath such fine distinctions when switching tack.
    The view was if it was anything related to the rozzers illegally leaking stuff or Green forced out against his will then David Davis would quit.
    'The view was' is pretty weak stuff. I'm not saying the man didn't intimate he would resign in this type of situation, or that his ducking out of it is not backing down, but sounds like he has enough linguistic ambiguity to at least claim he did not mean he would resign in this scenario.
    I’ve just asked the journo, and he agrees with Mike’s assessment on Davis being a bullshitter.
  • That 'generally' is a killer.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Is Davis on record saying he would resign ? Would really like to know.
    Lots of journos were told off the record by allies of David Davis that he would resign in protest.

    One journalist told me at the time.
    Resign in protest at a resignation or at a sacking though? Clearly this was in effect a sacking, but politicians and hacks live and breath such fine distinctions when switching tack.
    The view was if it was anything related to the rozzers illegally leaking stuff or Green forced out against his will then David Davis would quit.
    'The view was' is pretty weak stuff. I'm not saying the man didn't intimate he would resign in this type of situation, or that his ducking out of it is not backing down, but sounds like he has enough linguistic ambiguity to at least claim he did not mean he would resign in this scenario.
    I’ve just asked the journo, and he agrees with Mike’s assessment on Davis being a bullshitter.
    And I didn't say he wasn't. I said he probably has enough space to claim things are different from the scenario he threatened over, even if it is clearly bullshit.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Is Davis on record saying he would resign ? Would really like to know.
    Lots of journos were told off the record by allies of David Davis that he would resign in protest.

    One journalist told me at the time.
    Resign in protest at a resignation or at a sacking though? Clearly this was in effect a sacking, but politicians and hacks live and breath such fine distinctions when switching tack.
    The view was if it was anything related to the rozzers illegally leaking stuff or Green forced out against his will then David Davis would quit.
    'The view was' is pretty weak stuff. I'm not saying the man didn't intimate he would resign in this type of situation, or that his ducking out of it is not backing down, but sounds like he has enough linguistic ambiguity to at least claim he did not mean he would resign in this scenario.
    I’ve just asked the journo, and he agrees with Mike’s assessment on Davis being a bullshitter.
    But a friend of a friend,does it really work.
  • kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Is Davis on record saying he would resign ? Would really like to know.
    Lots of journos were told off the record by allies of David Davis that he would resign in protest.

    One journalist told me at the time.
    Resign in protest at a resignation or at a sacking though? Clearly this was in effect a sacking, but politicians and hacks live and breath such fine distinctions when switching tack.
    The view was if it was anything related to the rozzers illegally leaking stuff or Green forced out against his will then David Davis would quit.
    'The view was' is pretty weak stuff. I'm not saying the man didn't intimate he would resign in this type of situation, or that his ducking out of it is not backing down, but sounds like he has enough linguistic ambiguity to at least claim he did not mean he would resign in this scenario.
    I’ve just asked the journo, and he agrees with Mike’s assessment on Davis being a bullshitter.
    And I didn't say he wasn't. I said he probably has enough space to claim things are different from the scenario he threatened over, even if it is clearly bullshit.
    Apologies if my reply seemed harsh towards you. It was not my intention.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Scott_P said:
    He’s all fart and no follow through.
    But how would the country manage without it’s part-time Brexit secretary?
    The country may well manage a lot better in negotiations as we are currently being buggered over a beer barrel in the current context. It really shows how ridiculous things have become that the PM is judged by some to be in a strengthened position when she and her team have capitulated to the EU and got NOTHING in return.
    Have you compared the EU's starting position to where we ended up?
    Foxinsox says 3-0 to them, though the annotated deal on politico as I recall called it more for them but that we got some things, at least three big wins according to them. But that does not sound gloomy enough for some.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-deal-document-annotated/
    Yes, the emulsified high fat offal tube is now called The British Sausage.
    Which of the things politico felt were real wins do you not think are wins?
    Those red lines faded fast. The EU got their cash, the ECJ and Irish veto over our customs. Looks like 3 nil to me.
  • HYUFD said:
    Who in their right minds would trust the police these days. I know OGH keeps coming up with tables showing they are trusted but to me the only reason for that is that most people still see them as they were portrayed 50 years ago.
  • kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Is Davis on record saying he would resign ? Would really like to know.
    Lots of journos were told off the record by allies of David Davis that he would resign in protest.

    One journalist told me at the time.
    Resign in protest at a resignation or at a sacking though? Clearly this was in effect a sacking, but politicians and hacks live and breath such fine distinctions when switching tack.
    The view was if it was anything related to the rozzers illegally leaking stuff or Green forced out against his will then David Davis would quit.
    'The view was' is pretty weak stuff. I'm not saying the man didn't intimate he would resign in this type of situation, or that his ducking out of it is not backing down, but sounds like he has enough linguistic ambiguity to at least claim he did not mean he would resign in this scenario.
    I’ve just asked the journo, and he agrees with Mike’s assessment on Davis being a bullshitter.
    But a friend of a friend,does it really work.
    It does usually in my experience
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,084

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Is Davis on record saying he would resign ? Would really like to know.
    Lots of journos were told off the record by allies of David Davis that he would resign in protest.

    One journalist told me at the time.
    Resign in protest at a resignation or at a sacking though? Clearly this was in effect a sacking, but politicians and hacks live and breath such fine distinctions when switching tack.
    The view was if it was anything related to the rozzers illegally leaking stuff or Green forced out against his will then David Davis would quit.
    'The view was' is pretty weak stuff. I'm not saying the man didn't intimate he would resign in this type of situation, or that his ducking out of it is not backing down, but sounds like he has enough linguistic ambiguity to at least claim he did not mean he would resign in this scenario.
    I’ve just asked the journo, and he agrees with Mike’s assessment on Davis being a bullshitter.
    But a friend of a friend,does it really work.
    50:50:?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    HYUFD said:
    So Gavin Williamson did appoint himself...
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    dr_spyn said:
    What did this tweet say? It's not working now.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    calum said:
    Sounds like a squeaker either way - recipe for firm, stable resolution of concerns in Catalonia then.

    What on earth happens next if the parties who tried to unilaterally declare once already then get a majority in the follow up election? It's no decisive shift in their favour, but clearly nothing has been solved yet either. Poor Spain, a rough time ahead.

  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited December 2017


    There are people saying TMay is being strong over this. Disagree. She is showing she is weak and folding at the first sign of trouble. Disappointing.

    Whatever Green did/did-not do wrong, the police behaviour was despicable (and if you don't think that, imagine them pulling that stunt with you). She should have held out.

    If there's no bigger reshuffle coming, I agree.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Scott_P said:
    He’s all fart and no follow through.
    But how would the country manage without it’s part-time Brexit secretary?
    The country may well manage a lot better in negotiations as we are currently being buggered over a beer barrel in the current context. It really shows how ridiculous things have become that the PM is judged by some to be in a strengthened position when she and her team have capitulated to the EU and got NOTHING in return.
    Have you compared the EU's starting position to where we ended up?
    Foxinsox says 3-0 to them, though the annotated deal on politico as I recall called it more for them but that we got some things, at least three big wins according to them. But that does not sound gloomy enough for some.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-deal-document-annotated/
    Yes, the emulsified high fat offal tube is now called The British Sausage.
    Which of the things politico felt were real wins do you not think are wins?
    Those red lines faded fast. The EU got their cash, the ECJ and Irish veto over our customs. Looks like 3 nil to me.
    So the agreement the EU itself agreed which had concessions to us in it is bollocks? They don't sound very trustworthy in that case, sounds like you are arguing for a no deal Brexit.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Is Davis on record saying he would resign ? Would really like to know.
    Lots of journos were told off the record by allies of David Davis that he would resign in protest.

    One journalist told me at the time.
    Resign in protest at a resignation or at a sacking though? Clearly this was in effect a sacking, but politicians and hacks live and breath such fine distinctions when switching tack.
    The view was if it was anything related to the rozzers illegally leaking stuff or Green forced out against his will then David Davis would quit.
    'The view was' is pretty weak stuff. I'm not saying the man didn't intimate he would resign in this type of situation, or that his ducking out of it is not backing down, but sounds like he has enough linguistic ambiguity to at least claim he did not mean he would resign in this scenario.
    I’ve just asked the journo, and he agrees with Mike’s assessment on Davis being a bullshitter.
    And I didn't say he wasn't. I said he probably has enough space to claim things are different from the scenario he threatened over, even if it is clearly bullshit.
    Apologies if my reply seemed harsh towards you. It was not my intention.
    Didn't cross my mind for a second! Apologies if my reply made it seem I was offended.
  • From the outset I have been clear that I did not download or view pornography on my Parliamentary computers. I accept that I should have been clear in my press statements that police lawyers talked to my lawyers in 2008 about the pornography on the computers, and that the police raised it with me in a subsequent phone call in 2013. I apologise that my statements were misleading on this point. The unfounded and deeply hurtful allegations that were being levelled at me were distressing both to me and my family and it is right that these are being investigated by the Metropolitan Police's professional standards department.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/20/damian-greens-resignation-letter-full/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Scott_P said:

    HYUFD said:
    So Gavin Williamson did appoint himself...
    He does seem to have a Major like ability to rise without trace.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Scott_P said:
    He’s all fart and no follow through.
    But how would the country manage without it’s part-time Brexit secretary?
    The country may well manage a lot better in negotiations as we are currently being buggered over a beer barrel in the current context. It really shows how ridiculous things have become that the PM is judged by some to be in a strengthened position when she and her team have capitulated to the EU and got NOTHING in return.
    Have you compared the EU's starting position to where we ended up?
    Foxinsox says 3-0 to them, though the annotated deal on politico as I recall called it more for them but that we got some things, at least three big wins according to them. But that does not sound gloomy enough for some.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-deal-document-annotated/
    Yes, the emulsified high fat offal tube is now called The British Sausage.
    Which of the things politico felt were real wins do you not think are wins?
    Those red lines faded fast. The EU got their cash, the ECJ and Irish veto over our customs. Looks like 3 nil to me.
    As did the EU starting point
  • archer101auarcher101au Posts: 1,612
    edited December 2017
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I see Green has resigned to spend more time on porn sites........

    Now then what about Davis! He should surely resign as well as he has a record of resigning on points of principle. Indeed he triggered a by election some years ago on a point of principle. For all we know given how poorly he is negotiating he may want to quit anyway?

    Well we are now successfully through phase 1
    3 nil to the EU in the first half.

    The good thing about DD doing the negotiating is that the Brexiteers will have to own the deal.
    No we are still heading for a FTA that ends free movement which is the only way to get a trade deal and respect the Leave vote.
    You are commendably 'on message'. Unfortunately, not 'on fact'. In reality, the EU have made it explicit in the last few days that the UK will be legally committed to pay the Brexit bill as part of the withdrawal agreement but that the EU will not be legally bound to deliver an FTA - they will only make a non-binding 'political declaration'.

    You need to address this fact, rather than keep repeating the same old line. May has agreed to pay 40bn in return for nothing more than a vague non-binding statement that there will be an FTA. Once the withdrawal agreement is signed, we will be legally obliged to pay even if the EU refuses to enter into any FTA.
  • So, the bent coppers won.

    Wonderful.
  • Bristol City knock out Manchester United.

    A nation mourns.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Scott_P said:
    He’s all fart and no follow through.
    But how would the country manage without it’s part-time Brexit secretary?
    The country may well manage a lot better in negotiations as we are currently being buggered over a beer barrel in the current context. It really shows how ridiculous things have become that the PM is judged by some to be in a strengthened position when she and her team have capitulated to the EU and got NOTHING in return.
    Have you compared the EU's starting position to where we ended up?
    Foxinsox says 3-0 to them, though the annotated deal on politico as I recall called it more for them but that we got some things, at least three big wins according to them. But that does not sound gloomy enough for some.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-deal-document-annotated/
    Yes, the emulsified high fat offal tube is now called The British Sausage.
    Which of the things politico felt were real wins do you not think are wins?
    Those red lines faded fast. The EU got their cash, the ECJ and Irish veto over our customs. Looks like 3 nil to me.
    As did the EU starting point
    Yeah, they renamed the emulsified high fat offal tube...

  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    So will David Davis follow through now? Of course he won't, what's one more lie after so many?
  • Paul Goodman:

    ....there sometimes comes a point when a senior politician must resign not because he has necessarily acted wrongly, but because his continued presence in government becomes unsustainable. Fairly or unfairly, this had become Green’s direction of travel. If he had stayed in office following the Cabinet Secretary’s report, the newspaper trawl over his past would have redoubled and his media performances would have become very arduous. It is hard to believe that his effectiveness as a Minister would not have suffered – and as the chairman of a mass of Cabinet committees, such a development would have hit the Government hard. Perhaps Green would have been able to fight his way back to political full health; perhaps not.

    That we can believe he could perhaps have survived his own admissions of fault is a tribute to his skills as a politician. He is an operator of the first rank – acute, witty, hard-working, loyal, gifted and with a clear set of left-of-Tory-centre beliefs (one of which, devotion to EU membership, is certainly not ours). This Government will miss him. None the less, May had little choice but to act as she has done, given the contents of the Cabinet Secretary’s report.


    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/12/mays-enemies-will-seize-on-greens-sacking-to-question-her-judgement.html
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    Bristol City knock out Manchester United.

    A nation mourns.

    In the Mickey Mouse cup, but still.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I see Green has resigned to spend more time on porn sites........

    Now then what about Davis! He should surely resign as well as he has a record of resigning on points of principle. Indeed he triggered a by election some years ago on a point of principle. For all we know given how poorly he is negotiating he may want to quit anyway?

    Well we are now successfully through phase 1
    3 nil to the EU in the first half.

    The good thing about DD doing the negotiating is that the Brexiteers will have to own the deal.
    No we are still heading for a FTA that ends free movement which is the only way to get a trade deal and respect the Leave vote.
    You are commendably 'on message'. Unfortunately, not 'on fact'. In reality, the EU have made it explicit in the last few days that the UK will be legally committed to pay the Brexit bill as part of the withdrawal agreement but that the EU will not be legally bound to deliver an FTA - they will only make a non-binding 'political declaration'.

    You need to address this fact, rather than keep repeating the same old line. May has agreed to pay 40bn in return for nothing more than a vague non-binding statement that there will be an FTA. Once the withdrawal agreement is signed, we will be legally obliged to pay even if the EU refuses to enter into any FTA.
    It includes the tranisition payments (about £18bn for 18m) which will fall away if there is no agreement

    And Britain has some liabilities which we will settle. £21bn is peanuts in the scheme of things
  • So, the bent coppers won.

    Wonderful.

    Not yet. They're still under investigation. By the Met. What could possibly go wrong?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Chris_A said:

    So will David Davis follow through now? Of course he won't, what's one more lie after so many?

    The advantage of unattributable briefings is that they are deniable.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    Chris_A said:

    So will David Davis follow through now? Of course he won't, what's one more lie after so many?

    Davis is not on record anywhere as saying he would resign if Green went and certainly not over a Green resignation due to misleading statements he made
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    edited December 2017

    Unmissable:

    hts://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/943599195507888135

    How would Jesus vote, really?

    Also, is it ok to call political opponents swine? I objected to saboteurs and enemies of the people, but porcine insults I don't know if that crosses the line.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I see Green has resigned to spend more time on porn sites........

    Now then what about Davis! He should surely resign as well as he has a record of resigning on points of principle. Indeed he triggered a by election some years ago on a point of principle. For all we know given how poorly he is negotiating he may want to quit anyway?

    Well we are now successfully through phase 1
    3 nil to the EU in the first half.

    The good thing about DD doing the negotiating is that the Brexiteers will have to own the deal.
    No we are still heading for a FTA that ends free movement which is the only way to get a trade deal and respect the Leave vote.
    You are commendably 'on message'. Unfortunately, not 'on fact'. In reality, the EU have made it explicit in the last few days that the UK will be legally committed to pay the Brexit bill as part of the withdrawal agreement but that the EU will not be legally bound to deliver an FTA - they will only make a non-binding 'political declaration'.

    You need to address this fact, rather than keep repeating the same old line. May has agreed to pay 40bn in return for nothing more than a vague non-binding statement that there will be an FTA. Once the withdrawal agreement is signed, we will be legally obliged to pay even if the EU refuses to enter into any FTA.
    Compared to the £100 bn some were talking of earlier as the exit bill £39 bn is nothing, especially as Charles states it includes liabilities we have.
  • Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Scott_P said:
    He’s all fart and no follow through.
    But how would the country manage without it’s part-time Brexit secretary?
    The country may well manage a lot better in negotiations as we are currently being buggered over a beer barrel in the current context. It really shows how ridiculous things have become that the PM is judged by some to be in a strengthened position when she and her team have capitulated to the EU and got NOTHING in return.
    Have you compared the EU's starting position to where we ended up?
    Foxinsox says 3-0 to them, though the annotated deal on politico as I recall called it more for them but that we got some things, at least three big wins according to them. But that does not sound gloomy enough for some.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-deal-document-annotated/
    Yes, the emulsified high fat offal tube is now called The British Sausage.
    Which of the things politico felt were real wins do you not think are wins?
    Those red lines faded fast. The EU got their cash, the ECJ and Irish veto over our customs. Looks like 3 nil to me.
    As did the EU starting point
    EU - £100 billion - UK agreed down to £35 - £39 billion - ECJ gone in 8 years - Irish all things to all people

    I put that - UK 2.5 - EU 0.5
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    LOL- How would jesus vote ,what a comic.
  • archer101auarcher101au Posts: 1,612
    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I see Green has resigned to spend more time on porn sites........

    Now then what about Davis! He should surely resign as well as he has a record of resigning on points of principle. Indeed he triggered a by election some years ago on a point of principle. For all we know given how poorly he is negotiating he may want to quit anyway?

    Well we are now successfully through phase 1
    3 nil to the EU in the first half.

    The good thing about DD doing the negotiating is that the Brexiteers will have to own the deal.
    No we are still heading for a FTA that ends free movement which is the only way to get a trade deal and respect the Leave vote.
    You are commendably 'on message'. Unfortunately, not 'on fact'. In reality, the EU have made it explicit in the last few days that the UK will be legally committed to pay the Brexit bill as part of the withdrawal agreement but that the EU will not be legally bound to deliver an FTA - they will only make a non-binding 'political declaration'.

    You need to address this fact, rather than keep repeating the same old line. May has agreed to pay 40bn in return for nothing more than a vague non-binding statement that there will be an FTA. Once the withdrawal agreement is signed, we will be legally obliged to pay even if the EU refuses to enter into any FTA.
    It includes the tranisition payments (about £18bn for 18m) which will fall away if there is no agreement

    And Britain has some liabilities which we will settle. £21bn is peanuts in the scheme of things
    No, that is wrong. There are two outcomes:

    1. If there is no agreement on the withdrawal agreement, there will be no transition and no payment, but we will leave to WTO in March 2019.
    2. If there is a withdrawal agreement, there will be a transition but no guarantee WHATSOEVER that there will be an FTA at the end of it and the UK will be legally committed to make the whole Brexit Bill payment regardless of the outcome. We could quite easily (and given the timetable, probably) exit to WTO rules at the end of the transition period, having paid 40bn for nothing more than a delay.

    Time to face facts. May sold out.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    I shall pick up a copy, just might have to hide it from Grandpa Fox on Christmas Day. Apoplexy can wait.
  • kle4 said:

    Unmissable:

    hts://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/943599195507888135

    How would Jesus vote, really?

    Also, is it ok to call political opponents swine? I objected to saboteurs and enemies of the people, but porcine insults I don't know if that crosses the line.
    Is resurrection synonymous with Remain?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712

    HYUFD said:
    Who in their right minds would trust the police these days. I know OGH keeps coming up with tables showing they are trusted but to me the only reason for that is that most people still see them as they were portrayed 50 years ago.
    They are no longer in the top 5 most trusted professions though. Those are doctors, teachers, judges, scientists and hairdressers.
    http://www.itv.com/news/2016-01-22/survey-reveals-most-and-least-trusted-professions/
  • archer101auarcher101au Posts: 1,612
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I see Green has resigned to spend more time on porn sites........

    Now then what about Davis! He should surely resign as well as he has a record of resigning on points of principle. Indeed he triggered a by election some years ago on a point of principle. For all we know given how poorly he is negotiating he may want to quit anyway?

    Well we are now successfully through phase 1
    3 nil to the EU in the first half.

    The good thing about DD doing the negotiating is that the Brexiteers will have to own the deal.
    No we are still heading for a FTA that ends free movement which is the only way to get a trade deal and respect the Leave vote.
    You are commendably 'on message'. Unfortunately, not 'on fact'. In reality, the EU have made it explicit in the last few days that the UK will be legally committed to pay the Brexit bill as part of the withdrawal agreement but that the EU will not be legally bound to deliver an FTA - they will only make a non-binding 'political declaration'.

    You need to address this fact, rather than keep repeating the same old line. May has agreed to pay 40bn in return for nothing more than a vague non-binding statement that there will be an FTA. Once the withdrawal agreement is signed, we will be legally obliged to pay even if the EU refuses to enter into any FTA.
    Compared to the £100 bn some were talking of earlier as the exit bill £39 bn is nothing, especially as Charles states it includes liabilities we have.
    Are you prepared to accept that the Brexit Bill will have to be paid whether or not there is an FTA, assuming that a withdrawal agreement is signed. Yes or No?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Scott_P said:
    He’s all fart and no follow through.
    But how would the country manage without it’s part-time Brexit secretary?
    The country may well manage a lot better in negotiations as we are currently being buggered over a beer barrel in the current context. It really shows how ridiculous things have become that the PM is judged by some to be in a strengthened position when she and her team have capitulated to the EU and got NOTHING in return.
    Have you compared the EU's starting position to where we ended up?
    Foxinsox says 3-0 to them, though the annotated deal on politico as I recall called it more for them but that we got some things, at least three big wins according to them. But that does not sound gloomy enough for some.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-deal-document-annotated/
    Yes, the emulsified high fat offal tube is now called The British Sausage.
    Which of the things politico felt were real wins do you not think are wins?
    Those red lines faded fast. The EU got their cash, the ECJ and Irish veto over our customs. Looks like 3 nil to me.
    As did the EU starting point
    EU - £100 billion - UK agreed down to £35 - £39 billion - ECJ gone in 8 years - Irish all things to all people

    I put that - UK 2.5 - EU 0.5
    I don't know that 100 billion was ever serious - it certainly did not seem to be their starting point - but I struggle to take seriously the idea we got nothing, or that what we got will be ignored (and yet the EU are still the good guys).
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,037

    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Scott_P said:
    He’s all fart and no follow through.
    But how would the country manage without it’s part-time Brexit secretary?
    The country may well manage a lot better in negotiations as we are currently being buggered over a beer barrel in the current context. It really shows how ridiculous things have become that the PM is judged by some to be in a strengthened position when she and her team have capitulated to the EU and got NOTHING in return.
    Have you compared the EU's starting position to where we ended up?
    Foxinsox says 3-0 to them, though the annotated deal on politico as I recall called it more for them but that we got some things, at least three big wins according to them. But that does not sound gloomy enough for some.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-deal-document-annotated/
    Yes, the emulsified high fat offal tube is now called The British Sausage.
    Which of the things politico felt were real wins do you not think are wins?
    Those red lines faded fast. The EU got their cash, the ECJ and Irish veto over our customs. Looks like 3 nil to me.
    As did the EU starting point
    EU - £100 billion - UK agreed down to £35 - £39 billion - ECJ gone in 8 years - Irish all things to all people

    I put that - UK 2.5 - EU 0.5
    LOL!

    Great spinning as ever Big_G! Top class!

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    kle4 said:

    Unmissable:

    hts://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/943599195507888135

    How would Jesus vote, really?

    Also, is it ok to call political opponents swine? I objected to saboteurs and enemies of the people, but porcine insults I don't know if that crosses the line.
    Fine to call them swine, unless they are Muslim, Jewish or SDA. Then it would be a bit dodgy.
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548
    Green made a point of saying that he'd never been informed of the porn allegation. He's admitted that was a lie. It's absolutely right that he be fired for that lie.

    Davis never said he'd resign if Green was sacked for lying.

  • murali_s said:

    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Scott_P said:
    He’s all fart and no follow through.
    But how would the country manage without it’s part-time Brexit secretary?
    The country may well manage a lot better in negotiations as we are currently being buggered over a beer barrel in the current context. It really shows how ridiculous things have become that the PM is judged by some to be in a strengthened position when she and her team have capitulated to the EU and got NOTHING in return.
    Have you compared the EU's starting position to where we ended up?
    Foxinsox says 3-0 to them, though the annotated deal on politico as I recall called it more for them but that we got some things, at least three big wins according to them. But that does not sound gloomy enough for some.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-deal-document-annotated/
    Yes, the emulsified high fat offal tube is now called The British Sausage.
    Which of the things politico felt were real wins do you not think are wins?
    Those red lines faded fast. The EU got their cash, the ECJ and Irish veto over our customs. Looks like 3 nil to me.
    As did the EU starting point
    EU - £100 billion - UK agreed down to £35 - £39 billion - ECJ gone in 8 years - Irish all things to all people

    I put that - UK 2.5 - EU 0.5
    LOL!

    Great spinning as ever Big_G! Top class!

    And true - happy xmas
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    I see the BBC headline writers have decided that 'asked to resign' is just too obviously a sacking to pretend that this 'resignation' is indeed a resignation and are calling it a sacking. Although the writers of the copy seem confused, stating both that he was 'asked to quit' in quotations, but don't similarly use quotations around his 'resignation' letter
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    kle4 said:

    Unmissable:

    hts://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/943599195507888135

    How would Jesus vote, really?

    Also, is it ok to call political opponents swine? I objected to saboteurs and enemies of the people, but porcine insults I don't know if that crosses the line.
    Fine to call them swine, unless they are Muslim, Jewish or SDA. Then it would be a bit dodgy.
    Well do let us know if the list of worst Brexiters includes any such, so we can be offended on their behalf.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    What's the difference between being asked to resign by your boss and being sacked?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Roger said:

    What's the difference between being asked to resign by your boss and being sacked?

    They hold the door open for you as you leave, rather than tossing you through it.
  • Roger said:

    What's the difference between being asked to resign by your boss and being sacked?

    About £100,000 at the employment tribunal.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Unmissable:

    hts://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/943599195507888135

    How would Jesus vote, really?

    Also, is it ok to call political opponents swine? I objected to saboteurs and enemies of the people, but porcine insults I don't know if that crosses the line.
    Fine to call them swine, unless they are Muslim, Jewish or SDA. Then it would be a bit dodgy.
    Well do let us know if the list of worst Brexiters includes any such, so we can be offended on their behalf.
    I suspect that they are OK with it. After all they hate such political correctness.
  • Roger said:

    What's the difference between being asked to resign by your boss and being sacked?

    Green should have gone when his untruths were proven - he gave her no choice but to issue the ultimatum
  • Is Davis on record saying he would resign ? Would really like to know.
    As long as Davis waits until tomorrow so he does not trigger the dead-heat rules.
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    HYUFD said:

    Chris_A said:

    So will David Davis follow through now? Of course he won't, what's one more lie after so many?

    Davis is not on record anywhere as saying he would resign if Green went and certainly not over a Green resignation due to misleading statements he made
    I realize that as a Brexiteer that you have to be a fantasists but even so this is risible.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Unmissable:

    hts://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/943599195507888135

    How would Jesus vote, really?

    Also, is it ok to call political opponents swine? I objected to saboteurs and enemies of the people, but porcine insults I don't know if that crosses the line.
    Fine to call them swine, unless they are Muslim, Jewish or SDA. Then it would be a bit dodgy.
    Well do let us know if the list of worst Brexiters includes any such, so we can be offended on their behalf.
    I suspect that they are OK with it. After all they hate such political correctness.
    That's why it is necessary to be offended for them.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    Chris_A said:

    HYUFD said:

    Chris_A said:

    So will David Davis follow through now? Of course he won't, what's one more lie after so many?

    Davis is not on record anywhere as saying he would resign if Green went and certainly not over a Green resignation due to misleading statements he made
    I realize that as a Brexiteer that you have to be a fantasists but even so this is risible.
    It is true though, there is no record of Davis saying he would resign even if Green was sacked and certainly not if Green resigned over misleading statements he made.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718
    Didn’t Jesus vote for the Judean Peoples Front?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I see Green has resigned to spend more time on porn sites........

    Now then what about Davis! He should surely resign as well as he has a record of resigning on points of principle. Indeed he triggered a by election some years ago on a point of principle. For all we know given how poorly he is negotiating he may want to quit anyway?

    Well we are now successfully through phase 1
    3 nil to the EU in the first half.

    The good thing about DD doing the negotiating is that the Brexiteers will have to own the deal.
    No we are still heading for a FTA that ends free movement which is the only way to get a trade deal and respect the Leave vote.
    You are commendably 'on message'. Unfortunately, not 'on fact'. In reality, the EU have made it explicit in the last few days that the UK will be legally committed to pay the Brexit bill as part of the withdrawal agreement but that the EU will not be legally bound to deliver an FTA - they will only make a non-binding 'political declaration'.

    You need to address this fact, rather than keep repeating the same old line. May has agreed to pay 40bn in return for nothing more than a vague non-binding statement that there will be an FTA. Once the withdrawal agreement is signed, we will be legally obliged to pay even if the EU refuses to enter into any FTA.
    Compared to the £100 bn some were talking of earlier as the exit bill £39 bn is nothing, especially as Charles states it includes liabilities we have.
    Are you prepared to accept that the Brexit Bill will have to be paid whether or not there is an FTA, assuming that a withdrawal agreement is signed. Yes or No?
    The liabilities we owe will have to be paid of course
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    edited December 2017
    Just imagine the media storm if May didn't sack him,going by the headline on the Guardian.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Didn’t Jesus vote for the Judean Peoples Front?

    I dont think Jesus was interested in earthly politics, His kingdom is not of this earth. There are good Christians in all parties and none.
  • dodradedodrade Posts: 595
    Ultimately no one to blame but Green himself for these statements. Absurd to think Davis would or should resign in "sympathy" in such circumstances. Given how quickly Fallon fell on his sword Green has let the PM down badly tying to tough it out knowing he had misled her and everyone else.
  • Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Scott_P said:
    He’s all fart and no follow through.
    But how would the country manage without it’s part-time Brexit secretary?
    The country may well manage a lot better in negotiations as we are currently being buggered over a beer barrel in the current context. It really shows how ridiculous things have become that the PM is judged by some to be in a strengthened position when she and her team have capitulated to the EU and got NOTHING in return.
    Have you compared the EU's starting position to where we ended up?
    Foxinsox says 3-0 to them, though the annotated deal on politico as I recall called it more for them but that we got some things, at least three big wins according to them. But that does not sound gloomy enough for some.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-deal-document-annotated/
    Yes, the emulsified high fat offal tube is now called The British Sausage.
    Which of the things politico felt were real wins do you not think are wins?
    Those red lines faded fast. The EU got their cash, the ECJ and Irish veto over our customs. Looks like 3 nil to me.
    As did the EU starting point
    Yeah, they renamed the emulsified high fat offal tube...

    You sound a little bit bitter Foxy.

    Just think how happy you would be if we were giving the EU £100bn.
  • dodrade said:

    Ultimately no one to blame but Green himself for these statements. Absurd to think Davis would or should resign in "sympathy" in such circumstances. Given how quickly Fallon fell on his sword Green has let the PM down badly tying to tough it out knowing he had misled her and everyone else.
    Spot on - and it is a warning to all MP's how low the bar now is
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited December 2017

    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Scott_P said:
    He’s all fart and no follow through.
    But how would the country manage without it’s part-time Brexit secretary?
    The country may well manage a lot better in negotiations as we are currently being buggered over a beer barrel in the current context. It really shows how ridiculous things have become that the PM is judged by some to be in a strengthened position when she and her team have capitulated to the EU and got NOTHING in return.
    Have you compared the EU's starting position to where we ended up?
    Foxinsox says 3-0 to them, though the annotated deal on politico as I recall called it more for them but that we got some things, at least three big wins according to them. But that does not sound gloomy enough for some.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-deal-document-annotated/
    Yes, the emulsified high fat offal tube is now called The British Sausage.
    Which of the things politico felt were real wins do you not think are wins?
    Those red lines faded fast. The EU got their cash, the ECJ and Irish veto over our customs. Looks like 3 nil to me.
    As did the EU starting point
    Yeah, they renamed the emulsified high fat offal tube...

    You sound a little bit bitter Foxy.

    Just think how happy you would be if we were giving the EU £100bn.
    I don't think that we should pay anything other than the pensions of EU staff who are UK citizens.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Sounds like Poland could lose its democratic vote within the EU.


    https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/20/eu-process-poland-voting-rights?__twitter_impression=true

    The Polish government has accused the European commission of a politically motivated attack after it triggered a process that could see the country stripped of voting rights in Brussels, over legal changes that the bloc claims threaten the independence of the country’s judiciary.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921
    O/t - but what does #fbpe mean on twitter?
This discussion has been closed.