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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Damian Green resigns

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    Bristol deserved it in every way. United are turning into a team of lazy players who are only going one way in the table and it is not up. And I am a lifelong United supporter
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,280
    edited December 2017
    Mortimer said:

    O/t - but what does #fbpe mean on twitter?

    Follow Back Pro EU
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    TGOHF said:

    Sounds like Poland could lose its democratic vote within the EU.


    https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/20/eu-process-poland-voting-rights?__twitter_impression=true

    The Polish government has accused the European commission of a politically motivated attack after it triggered a process that could see the country stripped of voting rights in Brussels, over legal changes that the bloc claims threaten the independence of the country’s judiciary.

    Really don't think there is any chance of it happening. It needs a unanimous decision by the other EU members (including the UK at the moment) and Hungary has already said it will veto any such move.
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    TGOHF said:

    Sounds like Poland could lose its democratic vote within the EU.


    https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/20/eu-process-poland-voting-rights?__twitter_impression=true

    The Polish government has accused the European commission of a politically motivated attack after it triggered a process that could see the country stripped of voting rights in Brussels, over legal changes that the bloc claims threaten the independence of the country’s judiciary.

    Nah, the 27 are unified in all matters, as any number of posters on here keep telling us.
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    Green made a point of saying that he'd never been informed of the porn allegation. He's admitted that was a lie. It's absolutely right that he be fired for that lie.

    Davis never said he'd resign if Green was sacked for lying.

    Green's a fool, the plods are liars and Davis is a pillock with principles.

    With thanks to whoever coined the phrase 'pillock with principles' about Zac Goldsmith.

    Meanwhile we have rape and coverup allegations about Labour plus suicides.
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    Mortimer said:

    O/t - but what does #fbpe mean on twitter?

    A new airline maybe
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,011
    TGOHF said:

    Sounds like Poland could lose its democratic vote within the EU.


    https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/20/eu-process-poland-voting-rights?__twitter_impression=true

    The Polish government has accused the European commission of a politically motivated attack after it triggered a process that could see the country stripped of voting rights in Brussels, over legal changes that the bloc claims threaten the independence of the country’s judiciary.

    It would need unanimity in the council and a vote in the parliament. Irony of ironies, Leave EU are calling on Theresa May to veto it...
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-42427812?__twitter_impression=true


    Michael Gove has hit back at claims the price of cheddar cheese will go up by 40% if Britain leaves the EU without a trade deal.

    The environment secretary said that would not happen if consumers started buying more British cheddar.

    "I am deeply concerned about your unpatriotic attitude towards cheese," he joked to the Labour MP quizzing him.

    He said his department was "very pro UK cheddar" - and Britain's dairy farmers would respond to what the market wants.


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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,936

    Mortimer said:

    O/t - but what does #fbpe mean on twitter?

    Follow Back Pro EU
    Ta. So, presumably the intention is virtue signalling?
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    JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548
    Mortimer said:

    O/t - but what does #fbpe mean on twitter?

    follow back pro EU
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    A lying wanker.

    I am so shocked...
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    Showing emotions for one thing or another really isn't in May's character, sometimes its a benefit and sometimes a drawback.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,624
    edited December 2017
    Why would he need to move? You can hold First Secretary of State and another ministerial post, somebody else can take over as a junior minister in the Cabinet office for Green. (ok, its not that junior, but it is not secretary of state level)
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    I'd hope Rory Stewart.

    But looks like Mrs May will conduct a wider reshuffle in January when she culls the likes of Justine Greening, Andrea Leadsom, and Patrick McLoughlin.

    So I'd expect a lot of women promoted into the cabinet, so maybe Esther McVey, but she might be a little to abrasive for Health.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,606
    He'd stay on, Hague and Osborne had the title and a brief.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    Mortimer said:

    O/t - but what does #fbpe mean on twitter?

    Follow Back Pro EU
    And that means?
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    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    O/t - but what does #fbpe mean on twitter?

    Follow Back Pro EU
    Ta. So, presumably the intention is virtue signalling?
    I called it more of a circle jerk.

    I did ask how many of them campaigned for Remain last year?
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,606

    Mortimer said:

    O/t - but what does #fbpe mean on twitter?

    Follow Back Pro EU
    Isn't that just random words put in a sequence?
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    RobD said:

    Mortimer said:

    O/t - but what does #fbpe mean on twitter?

    Follow Back Pro EU
    And that means?
    It's to help Remainers help find fellow Remainers on twitter.
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    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Scott_P said:
    He’s all fart and no follow through.
    But how would the country manage without it’s part-time Brexit secretary?
    The country may well manage a lot better in negotiations as we are currently being buggered over a beer barrel in the current context. It really shows how ridiculous things have become that the PM is judged by some to be in a strengthened position when she and her team have capitulated to the EU and got NOTHING in return.
    Have you compared the EU's starting position to where we ended up?
    Foxinsox says 3-0 to them, though the annotated deal on politico as I recall called it more for them but that we got some things, at least three big wins according to them. But that does not sound gloomy enough for some.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-deal-document-annotated/
    Yes, the emulsified high fat offal tube is now called The British Sausage.
    Which of the things politico felt were real wins do you not think are wins?
    Those red lines faded fast. The EU got their cash, the ECJ and Irish veto over our customs. Looks like 3 nil to me.
    As did the EU starting point
    Yeah, they renamed the emulsified high fat offal tube...

    You sound a little bit bitter Foxy.

    Just think how happy you would be if we were giving the EU £100bn.
    I don't think that we should pay anything other than the pensions of EU staff who are UK citizens.
    You should be delighted we are leaving the EU then - an organisation rather less financially solvent than we were given to understand.
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    MAY'S MAN Who is Damian Green, former First Secretary of State sacked by Theresa May, and who is his wife Alicia Collins?

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4814998/damian-green-sacked-theresa-may-porn-kate-maltby/

    Indeed! Who is Alicia Collins? I'm sure Alicia Collinson would love to know!
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,280
    edited December 2017
    MaxPB said:

    He'd stay on, Hague and Osborne had the title and a brief.
    The reports say given Brexit, the First Secretary of State should hold no other portfolio according to Mrs May.

    Apparently that's why her first choice Amber Rudd turned it down, she wants to be both Home Sec and First Secretary of State.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Scott_P said:
    He’s all fart and no follow through.
    But how would the country manage without it’s part-time Brexit secretary?
    The country may well manage a lot better in negotiations as we are currently being buggered over a beer barrel in the current context. It really shows how ridiculous things have become that the PM is judged by some to be in a strengthened position when she and her team have capitulated to the EU and got NOTHING in return.
    Have you compared the EU's starting position to where we ended up?
    Foxinsox says 3-0 to them, though the annotated deal on politico as I recall called it more for them but that we got some things, at least three big wins according to them. But that does not sound gloomy enough for some.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-deal-document-annotated/
    Yes, the emulsified high fat offal tube is now called The British Sausage.
    Which of the things politico felt were real wins do you not think are wins?
    Those red lines faded fast. The EU got their cash, the ECJ and Irish veto over our customs. Looks like 3 nil to me.
    As did the EU starting point
    Yeah, they renamed the emulsified high fat offal tube...

    You sound a little bit bitter Foxy.

    Just think how happy you would be if we were giving the EU £100bn.
    I don't think that we should pay anything other than the pensions of EU staff who are UK citizens.
    You should be delighted we are leaving the EU then - an organisation rather less financially solvent than we were given to understand.
    If we are to Brexit, we should Brexit properly.

    The EU27 have plenty of money, they don't need ours.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    O/t - but what does #fbpe mean on twitter?

    Follow Back Pro EU
    Ta. So, presumably the intention is virtue signalling?
    Twitter ? Yes mostly...
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,936

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    O/t - but what does #fbpe mean on twitter?

    Follow Back Pro EU
    Ta. So, presumably the intention is virtue signalling?
    I called it more of a circle jerk.

    I did ask how many of them campaigned for Remain last year?
    :)
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,624

    MaxPB said:

    He'd stay on, Hague and Osborne had the title and a brief.
    The reports say given Brexit, the First Secretary of State should hold no other portfolio according to Mrs May.
    Sounds pretty dumb considering we have an entire Secretary of State heading up the Exiting from the EU, supposedly.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,011

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    O/t - but what does #fbpe mean on twitter?

    Follow Back Pro EU
    Ta. So, presumably the intention is virtue signalling?
    I called it more of a circle jerk.

    I did ask how many of them campaigned for Remain last year?
    That's irrelevant. What matters is how many of them will campaign over the coming years.

    By winning the referendum, the Eurosceptics have unleashed a tidal wave of support for our European destiny that will wash away their grisly project sooner or later.
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    Ah how the world has changed.

    Was it really only a decade ago that a Home Secretary could happily let her husband claim for porn videos on MP's expenses? Such happy innocent times they were...
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    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    He'd stay on, Hague and Osborne had the title and a brief.
    The reports say given Brexit, the First Secretary of State should hold no other portfolio according to Mrs May.
    Sounds pretty dumb considering we have an entire Secretary of State heading up the Exiting from the EU, supposedly.
    I should have been clearer, the First Secretary of State runs all domestic stuff, freeing up Mrs May for Brexit and the big vision stuff*.

    *Yes, what fecking big vision stuff?
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,624

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    O/t - but what does #fbpe mean on twitter?

    Follow Back Pro EU
    Ta. So, presumably the intention is virtue signalling?
    I called it more of a circle jerk.

    I did ask how many of them campaigned for Remain last year?
    That's irrelevant. What matters is how many of them will campaign over the coming years.

    By winning the referendum, the Eurosceptics have unleashed a tidal wave of support for our European destiny that will wash away their grisly project sooner or later.
    Eh, Obi Wan Kenobi said it better.
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    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    O/t - but what does #fbpe mean on twitter?

    Follow Back Pro EU
    Ta. So, presumably the intention is virtue signalling?
    I called it more of a circle jerk.

    I did ask how many of them campaigned for Remain last year?
    That's irrelevant. What matters is how many of them will campaign over the coming years.

    By winning the referendum, the Eurosceptics have unleashed a tidal wave of support for our European destiny that will wash away their grisly project sooner or later.
    Some tidal wave. More a trickle of urine.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,606

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    O/t - but what does #fbpe mean on twitter?

    Follow Back Pro EU
    Ta. So, presumably the intention is virtue signalling?
    I called it more of a circle jerk.

    I did ask how many of them campaigned for Remain last year?
    That's irrelevant. What matters is how many of them will campaign over the coming years.

    By winning the referendum, the Eurosceptics have unleashed a tidal wave of support for our European destiny that will wash away their grisly project sooner or later.
    Sometimes I wonder whether you actually believe what you type.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    He'd stay on, Hague and Osborne had the title and a brief.
    The reports say given Brexit, the First Secretary of State should hold no other portfolio according to Mrs May.
    Sounds pretty dumb considering we have an entire Secretary of State heading up the Exiting from the EU, supposedly.
    As Brexit impacts on all aspects of government, a co-ordinating role is essential to inform the DExEU, after all DD hasn't done his homework.
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    Ah how the world has changed.

    Was it really only a decade ago that a Home Secretary could happily let her husband claim for porn videos on MP's expenses? Such happy innocent times they were...

    It was great, especially as one of the porno films was a gay porno.

    Was when I introduced PBers to the term barebacking.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    O/t - but what does #fbpe mean on twitter?

    Follow Back Pro EU
    Ta. So, presumably the intention is virtue signalling?
    I called it more of a circle jerk.

    I did ask how many of them campaigned for Remain last year?
    That's irrelevant. What matters is how many of them will campaign over the coming years.

    By winning the referendum, the Eurosceptics have unleashed a tidal wave of support for our European destiny that will wash away their grisly project sooner or later.
    Around the the same time the spinning Jenny, black and white tv and It’s a Knock out return to their rightful places in our hearts.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937
    edited December 2017

    MaxPB said:

    He'd stay on, Hague and Osborne had the title and a brief.
    The reports say given Brexit, the First Secretary of State should hold no other portfolio according to Mrs May.

    Apparently that's why her first choice Amber Rudd turned it down, she wants to be both Home Sec and First Secretary of State.
    Oliver Letwin would be a good outside bet, especially after his amendment got May out of a hole on the Brexit date. The best Deputy Leaders tend to be experienced figures who are loyal with no real leadership ambitions of their own and he ticks all those boxes.

    Grayling also a possibility
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,936

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    O/t - but what does #fbpe mean on twitter?

    Follow Back Pro EU
    Ta. So, presumably the intention is virtue signalling?
    I called it more of a circle jerk.

    I did ask how many of them campaigned for Remain last year?
    That's irrelevant. What matters is how many of them will campaign over the coming years.

    By winning the referendum, the Eurosceptics have unleashed a tidal wave of support for our European destiny that will wash away their grisly project sooner or later.
    Yawn.

    I can't wait to see how, on the day we leave the Eu, you'll spin that as a win for the three remaining Euro federalists in Britain.
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    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    O/t - but what does #fbpe mean on twitter?

    Follow Back Pro EU
    Ta. So, presumably the intention is virtue signalling?
    I called it more of a circle jerk.

    I did ask how many of them campaigned for Remain last year?
    That's irrelevant. What matters is how many of them will campaign over the coming years.

    By winning the referendum, the Eurosceptics have unleashed a tidal wave of support for our European destiny that will wash away their grisly project sooner or later.
    You need help.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,606

    MaxPB said:

    He'd stay on, Hague and Osborne had the title and a brief.
    The reports say given Brexit, the First Secretary of State should hold no other portfolio according to Mrs May.

    Apparently that's why her first choice Amber Rudd turned it down, she wants to be both Home Sec and First Secretary of State.
    That's stupid. Hunt will probably bite her hand off though.
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    I'd hope Rory Stewart.

    But looks like Mrs May will conduct a wider reshuffle in January when she culls the likes of Justine Greening, Andrea Leadsom, and Patrick McLoughlin.

    So I'd expect a lot of women promoted into the cabinet, so maybe Esther McVey, but she might be a little to abrasive for Health.
    How about Liam Fox - then we would have a Dr Fox as Health Secretery and a Dr Fox on PB.
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    Bristol deserved it in every way. United are turning into a team of lazy players who are only going one way in the table and it is not up. And I am a lifelong United supporter
    Thanks Big G. It's turning into a really special season for us and maybe we can finally reach the big league
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    I'm quite happy to serve as First Secretary of State.
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    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,175
    edited December 2017

    Ah how the world has changed.

    Was it really only a decade ago that a Home Secretary could happily let her husband claim for porn videos on MP's expenses? Such happy innocent times they were...

    It was great, especially as one of the porno films was a gay porno.

    Was when I introduced PBers to the term barebacking.
    Such innocent lives they lead. I'm more Baby-eating Bishop of Bath and Wells personally... Anyway, it's porn. He's a man. Some of it was a bit kinky, and he's a Tory. Why did he lie?
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    Bristol deserved it in every way. United are turning into a team of lazy players who are only going one way in the table and it is not up. And I am a lifelong United supporter
    Thanks Big G. It's turning into a really special season for us and maybe we can finally reach the big league
    On tonights performance you should make it and they would be an asset to the premiership
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891

    Modesty forbids me repeating my post of the other night when Peston said he'd heard Green was definitely OK and Kuenssberg said that was bullshit that Kuennsberg of the BBC was the one to follow....
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    O/t - but what does #fbpe mean on twitter?

    Follow Back Pro EU
    Ta. So, presumably the intention is virtue signalling?
    I called it more of a circle jerk.

    I did ask how many of them campaigned for Remain last year?
    That's irrelevant. What matters is how many of them will campaign over the coming years.

    By winning the referendum, the Eurosceptics have unleashed a tidal wave of support for our European destiny that will wash away their grisly project sooner or later.
    Where? Most Britains still oppose the Euro and even now polls show support for the EU well below where it was 15 years ago.
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    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Scott_P said:
    He’s all fart and no follow through.
    But how would the country manage without it’s part-time Brexit secretary?
    The country may well manage a lot better in negotiations as we are currently being buggered over a beer barrel in the current context. It really shows how ridiculous things have become that the PM is judged by some to be in a strengthened position when she and her team have capitulated to the EU and got NOTHING in return.
    Have you compared the EU's starting position to where we ended up?
    Foxinsox says 3-0 to them, though the annotated deal on politico as I recall called it more for them but that we got some things, at least three big wins according to them. But that does not sound gloomy enough for some.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-deal-document-annotated/
    Yes, the emulsified high fat offal tube is now called The British Sausage.
    Which of the things politico felt were real wins do you not think are wins?
    Those red lines faded fast. The EU got their cash, the ECJ and Irish veto over our customs. Looks like 3 nil to me.
    As did the EU starting point
    Yeah, they renamed the emulsified high fat offal tube...

    You sound a little bit bitter Foxy.

    Just think how happy you would be if we were giving the EU £100bn.
    I don't think that we should pay anything other than the pensions of EU staff who are UK citizens.
    You should be delighted we are leaving the EU then - an organisation rather less financially solvent than we were given to understand.
    If we are to Brexit, we should Brexit properly.

    The EU27 have plenty of money, they don't need ours.
    As RCS and others have said Brexit is a journey not an event.
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    In case you are wondering “resign or you’re sacked” is a dismissal. See Sheffield v Oxford Controls [1979] ICR 396
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    He'd stay on, Hague and Osborne had the title and a brief.
    The reports say given Brexit, the First Secretary of State should hold no other portfolio according to Mrs May.

    Apparently that's why her first choice Amber Rudd turned it down, she wants to be both Home Sec and First Secretary of State.
    Oliver Letwin would be a good outside bet, especially after his amendment got May out of a hole on the Brexit date. The best Deputy Leaders tend to be experienced figures who are loyal with no real leadership ambitions of their own and he ticks all those boxes.

    Grayling also a possibility
    On Letwin,Didn't he advise Thatcher to keep going with the poll tax when others warned of catastrophic outcome.
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    I'd hope Rory Stewart.

    But looks like Mrs May will conduct a wider reshuffle in January when she culls the likes of Justine Greening, Andrea Leadsom, and Patrick McLoughlin.

    So I'd expect a lot of women promoted into the cabinet, so maybe Esther McVey, but she might be a little to abrasive for Health.
    Thanks.

    Justine Greening seems almost invisible to me.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,319
    Pong said:


    There are people saying TMay is being strong over this. Disagree. She is showing she is weak and folding at the first sign of trouble. Disappointing.

    Whatever Green did/did-not do wrong, the police behaviour was despicable (and if you don't think that, imagine them pulling that stunt with you). She should have held out.

    If there's no bigger reshuffle coming, I agree.
    It's striking that although the sexual issue gets a mention, it is in fact the police leak contradicting his public statement that brought him down.

    Which raises the question: if you are a policeman, with a duty of both confidentiality and upholding the law, and you hear someone in public office say something that you know to be false (thereby breaking the Ministerial Code), what action should you take? If the politician strongly attacks a colleague for telling the truth about the matter, does that affect the position? I'm not comfortable with the police leaks, but I'm not sure I'd remain silent in that situation either. Perhaps privately informing the Cabinet Office would be the right course?
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    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    He'd stay on, Hague and Osborne had the title and a brief.
    The reports say given Brexit, the First Secretary of State should hold no other portfolio according to Mrs May.

    Apparently that's why her first choice Amber Rudd turned it down, she wants to be both Home Sec and First Secretary of State.
    Oliver Letwin would be a good outside bet, especially after his amendment got May out of a hole on the Brexit date. The best Deputy Leaders tend to be experienced figures who are loyal with no real leadership ambitions of their own and he ticks all those boxes.

    Grayling also a possibility
    New blood is needed - Letwin and Grayling do not cut the mustard
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Roger said:


    Modesty forbids me repeating my post of the other night when Peston said he'd heard Green was definitely OK and Kuenssberg said that was bullshit that Kuennsberg of the BBC was the one to follow....
    Careful, you will spoil your rogerdamus track record :)
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    I'd hope Rory Stewart.

    But looks like Mrs May will conduct a wider reshuffle in January when she culls the likes of Justine Greening, Andrea Leadsom, and Patrick McLoughlin.

    So I'd expect a lot of women promoted into the cabinet, so maybe Esther McVey, but she might be a little to abrasive for Health.
    Thanks.

    Justine Greening seems almost invisible to me.
    She had her confidence shattered, she had to sell Mrs May's grammar schools policies when she didn't believe in it, then had to re-reverse ferret when Mrs May dumped the policy.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,624

    Pong said:


    There are people saying TMay is being strong over this. Disagree. She is showing she is weak and folding at the first sign of trouble. Disappointing.

    Whatever Green did/did-not do wrong, the police behaviour was despicable (and if you don't think that, imagine them pulling that stunt with you). She should have held out.

    If there's no bigger reshuffle coming, I agree.
    It's striking that although the sexual issue gets a mention, it is in fact the police leak contradicting his public statement that brought him down.

    Which raises the question: if you are a policeman, with a duty of both confidentiality and upholding the law, and you hear someone in public office say something that you know to be false (thereby breaking the Ministerial Code), what action should you take? If the politician strongly attacks a colleague for telling the truth about the matter, does that affect the position? I'm not comfortable with the police leaks, but I'm not sure I'd remain silent in that situation either. Perhaps privately informing the Cabinet Office would be the right course?
    It would have been better, to a degree. That he held onto police notes he was instructed to destroy make it a malicious act, however, and totally improper. He didn't know this would all come up again, it is not the role of the police to hold onto notes which are not yours on the off chance someone 10 years later says something untrue about it. What was he planning to do with them if this did not come up?
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    Roger said:


    Modesty forbids me repeating my post of the other night when Peston said he'd heard Green was definitely OK and Kuenssberg said that was bullshit that Kuennsberg of the BBC was the one to follow....
    Indeed.

    Kuennsberg had the good sense to say nobody knew.
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    Bristol deserved it in every way. United are turning into a team of lazy players who are only going one way in the table and it is not up. And I am a lifelong United supporter
    Thanks Big G. It's turning into a really special season for us and maybe we can finally reach the big league
    On tonights performance you should make it and they would be an asset to the premiership
    It's always been frustrating as we have had that sleeping giant tag as we have such a massive potential catchment area. When we lost in the playoff final against Hull, we probably wouldn't have lasted long but now with the stadium redevelopment we finally have the infrastructure to have a chance of getting there and staying there.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited December 2017
    Well, top marks to the government on media management. Without descending to New Labour depths of labelling a day when thousands had been incinerated or crushed, or jumped to their deaths, as 'a good day to bury bad news', it's hard to see how a better time than two days before the Xmas break could be chosen to mitigate this embarrassing story.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited December 2017
    kle4 said:

    Pong said:


    There are people saying TMay is being strong over this. Disagree. She is showing she is weak and folding at the first sign of trouble. Disappointing.

    Whatever Green did/did-not do wrong, the police behaviour was despicable (and if you don't think that, imagine them pulling that stunt with you). She should have held out.

    If there's no bigger reshuffle coming, I agree.
    It's striking that although the sexual issue gets a mention, it is in fact the police leak contradicting his public statement that brought him down.

    Which raises the question: if you are a policeman, with a duty of both confidentiality and upholding the law, and you hear someone in public office say something that you know to be false (thereby breaking the Ministerial Code), what action should you take? If the politician strongly attacks a colleague for telling the truth about the matter, does that affect the position? I'm not comfortable with the police leaks, but I'm not sure I'd remain silent in that situation either. Perhaps privately informing the Cabinet Office would be the right course?
    It would have been better, to a degree. That he held onto police notes he was instructed to destroy make it a malicious act, however, and totally improper. He didn't know this would all come up again, it is not the role of the police to hold onto notes which are not yours on the off chance someone 10 years later says something untrue about it. What was he planning to do with them if this did not come up?
    True enough, but stolen confidential data has been widely used as a political and journalistic weapon for years. Just in the last few years we had the stolen Clinton emails dominating the POTUS election, and the stolen expenses data in the Telegraph doing the same here.

    What the politicians do not like is ordinary working people doing the same. When a Minister does it, it is called a leak, when joe public does it then it is a criminal breach of data protection.
  • Options
    Scott_P said:
    His friendship with TM goes back to University and he will be loyal. Indeed if he keeps his head down he could be back in office at some time in the future
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,936

    I'd hope Rory Stewart.

    But looks like Mrs May will conduct a wider reshuffle in January when she culls the likes of Justine Greening, Andrea Leadsom, and Patrick McLoughlin.

    So I'd expect a lot of women promoted into the cabinet, so maybe Esther McVey, but she might be a little to abrasive for Health.
    Thanks.

    Justine Greening seems almost invisible to me.
    She had her confidence shattered, she had to sell Mrs May's grammar schools policies when she didn't believe in it, then had to re-reverse ferret when Mrs May dumped the policy.
    I'd be happy to sell that policy as SoS for Education. From the Lords would be fine...
  • Options
    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Scott_P said:
    I thought Theresa and Green were good friends outside of politics.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    kle4 said:

    Pong said:


    There are people saying TMay is being strong over this. Disagree. She is showing she is weak and folding at the first sign of trouble. Disappointing.

    Whatever Green did/did-not do wrong, the police behaviour was despicable (and if you don't think that, imagine them pulling that stunt with you). She should have held out.

    If there's no bigger reshuffle coming, I agree.
    It's striking that although the sexual issue gets a mention, it is in fact the police leak contradicting his public statement that brought him down.

    Which raises the question: if you are a policeman, with a duty of both confidentiality and upholding the law, and you hear someone in public office say something that you know to be false (thereby breaking the Ministerial Code), what action should you take? If the politician strongly attacks a colleague for telling the truth about the matter, does that affect the position? I'm not comfortable with the police leaks, but I'm not sure I'd remain silent in that situation either. Perhaps privately informing the Cabinet Office would be the right course?
    It would have been better, to a degree. That he held onto police notes he was instructed to destroy make it a malicious act, however, and totally improper. He didn't know this would all come up again, it is not the role of the police to hold onto notes which are not yours on the off chance someone 10 years later says something untrue about it. What was he planning to do with them if this did not come up?
    True enough, but stolen confidential data has been widely used as a political and journalistic weapon for years. Just in the last few years we had the stolen Clinton emails dominating the POTUS election, and the stolen expenses data in the Telegraph doing the same here.
    Hmmm, did retired cops release the information in those cases?
  • Options
    Mortimer said:

    I'd hope Rory Stewart.

    But looks like Mrs May will conduct a wider reshuffle in January when she culls the likes of Justine Greening, Andrea Leadsom, and Patrick McLoughlin.

    So I'd expect a lot of women promoted into the cabinet, so maybe Esther McVey, but she might be a little to abrasive for Health.
    Thanks.

    Justine Greening seems almost invisible to me.
    She had her confidence shattered, she had to sell Mrs May's grammar schools policies when she didn't believe in it, then had to re-reverse ferret when Mrs May dumped the policy.
    I'd be happy to sell that policy as SoS for Education. From the Lords would be fine...
    As I told you at the time, it is a net vote loser for the Tories.

    Lady Thatcher as Education Secretary and PM reduced the number of grammar schools.

    She knew.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,624
    edited December 2017

    kle4 said:

    Pong said:


    There are people saying TMay is being strong over this. Disagree. She is showing she is weak and folding at the first sign of trouble. Disappointing.

    Whatever Green did/did-not do wrong, the police behaviour was despicable (and if you don't think that, imagine them pulling that stunt with you). She should have held out.

    If there's no bigger reshuffle coming, I agree.
    It's striking that although the sexual issue gets a mention, it is in fact the police leak contradicting his public statement that brought him down.

    Which raises the question: if you are a policeman, with a duty of both confidentiality and upholding the law, and you hear someone in public office say something that you know to be false (thereby breaking the Ministerial Code), what action should you take? If the politician strongly attacks a colleague for telling the truth about the matter, does that affect the position? I'm not comfortable with the police leaks, but I'm not sure I'd remain silent in that situation either. Perhaps privately informing the Cabinet Office would be the right course?
    It would have been better, to a degree. That he held onto police notes he was instructed to destroy make it a malicious act, however, and totally improper. He didn't know this would all come up again, it is not the role of the police to hold onto notes which are not yours on the off chance someone 10 years later says something untrue about it. What was he planning to do with them if this did not come up?
    True enough, but stolen confidential data has been widely used as a political and journalistic weapon for years.
    I suppose that is true - although I find it from the police unedifying, and in a case like this, there wasn't really any clear public interest argument for why the leakers had it in the first place; they didn't know Green might one day deny it, and the data itself was not about anything criminal and moral concerns is no business of the police, so why did they keep it?
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Well, top marks to the government on media management. Without descending to New Labour depths of labelling a day when thousands had been incinerated or crushed, or jumped to their deaths, as 'a good day to bury bad news', it's hard to see how a better time than two days before the Xmas break could be chosen to mitigate this embarrassing story.

    @jackcevans: Lord Mandelson keeps the honour of being sacked closest to Xmas- Damian Green- 20th Dec 2017, Peter Mandelson- 23rd Dec 1998
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,919
    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Scott_P said:
    He’s all fart and no follow through.
    But how would the country manage without it’s part-time Brexit secretary?
    The country may well manage a lot better in negotiations as we are currently being buggered over a beer barrel in the current context. It really shows how ridiculous things have become that the PM is judged by some to be in a strengthened position when she and her team have capitulated to the EU and got NOTHING in return.
    Have you compared the EU's starting position to where we ended up?
    Foxinsox says 3-0 to them, though the annotated deal on politico as I recall called it more for them but that we got some things, at least three big wins according to them. But that does not sound gloomy enough for some.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-deal-document-annotated/
    Basically, you can ignore everything fox, William Glenn and archer says on this.

    Guess what, the real world is nuanced.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,793
    So the cops got him!!!!!

    Anybody thinking he'll dish the dirt on Theresa will be sorely disappointed... He'll be loyal - indeed you can see there's orchestrated his departure at a time and in a way that will do minimal damage to TM and the government....
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,936

    Mortimer said:

    I'd hope Rory Stewart.

    But looks like Mrs May will conduct a wider reshuffle in January when she culls the likes of Justine Greening, Andrea Leadsom, and Patrick McLoughlin.

    So I'd expect a lot of women promoted into the cabinet, so maybe Esther McVey, but she might be a little to abrasive for Health.
    Thanks.

    Justine Greening seems almost invisible to me.
    She had her confidence shattered, she had to sell Mrs May's grammar schools policies when she didn't believe in it, then had to re-reverse ferret when Mrs May dumped the policy.
    I'd be happy to sell that policy as SoS for Education. From the Lords would be fine...
    As I told you at the time, it is a net vote loser for the Tories.

    Lady Thatcher as Education Secretary and PM reduced the number of grammar schools.

    She knew.
    I'm pretty sure you didn't say it would be a 'net' vote loser.

    :)

  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937

    Mortimer said:

    I'd hope Rory Stewart.

    But looks like Mrs May will conduct a wider reshuffle in January when she culls the likes of Justine Greening, Andrea Leadsom, and Patrick McLoughlin.

    So I'd expect a lot of women promoted into the cabinet, so maybe Esther McVey, but she might be a little to abrasive for Health.
    Thanks.

    Justine Greening seems almost invisible to me.
    She had her confidence shattered, she had to sell Mrs May's grammar schools policies when she didn't believe in it, then had to re-reverse ferret when Mrs May dumped the policy.
    I'd be happy to sell that policy as SoS for Education. From the Lords would be fine...
    As I told you at the time, it is a net vote loser for the Tories.

    Lady Thatcher as Education Secretary and PM reduced the number of grammar schools.

    She knew.
    Thatcher actually stopped the decline in grammar schools as PM, had the rate of decline of grammar schools in the 1970s continued in the 1980s there would have been none left in 1990.

    Instead there are now more grammar schools in the UK now than there were in 1979.
  • Options
    Scott_P said:

    Well, top marks to the government on media management. Without descending to New Labour depths of labelling a day when thousands had been incinerated or crushed, or jumped to their deaths, as 'a good day to bury bad news', it's hard to see how a better time than two days before the Xmas break could be chosen to mitigate this embarrassing story.

    @jackcevans: Lord Mandelson keeps the honour of being sacked closest to Xmas- Damian Green- 20th Dec 2017, Peter Mandelson- 23rd Dec 1998
    Was that Mandelson's dubious mortgage transactions ?

    There were so many times Mandelson was 'embarassed' that I can't remember which was which.
  • Options
    Damian Green had to go. It turns out he did lie on the question of knowing that porn was found on his computer. That is the entire point.

    The next thing that should happen is that the ex-police officers who revealed confidential information obtained in the course of their duties should be prosecuted.
  • Options
    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    I'd hope Rory Stewart.

    But looks like Mrs May will conduct a wider reshuffle in January when she culls the likes of Justine Greening, Andrea Leadsom, and Patrick McLoughlin.

    So I'd expect a lot of women promoted into the cabinet, so maybe Esther McVey, but she might be a little to abrasive for Health.
    Thanks.

    Justine Greening seems almost invisible to me.
    She had her confidence shattered, she had to sell Mrs May's grammar schools policies when she didn't believe in it, then had to re-reverse ferret when Mrs May dumped the policy.
    I'd be happy to sell that policy as SoS for Education. From the Lords would be fine...
    As I told you at the time, it is a net vote loser for the Tories.

    Lady Thatcher as Education Secretary and PM reduced the number of grammar schools.

    She knew.
    I'm pretty sure you didn't say it would be a 'net' vote loser.

    :)

    I did.

    However the polling also found more people in favour of scrapping existing current grammar schools/or not creating any more grammar schools. This is probably based on the studies that show 'that poor children do dramatically worse in selective areas' as grammar schools might help a few, in totality they are worse for children.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/09/09/vox-populi-vox-dei-the-polling-that-explains-why-mrs-may-is-backing-grammar-schools/
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,936
    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Scott_P said:
    He’s all fart and no follow through.
    But how would the country manage without it’s part-time Brexit secretary?
    The country may well manage a lot better in negotiations as we are currently being buggered over a beer barrel in the current context. It really shows how ridiculous things have become that the PM is judged by some to be in a strengthened position when she and her team have capitulated to the EU and got NOTHING in return.
    Have you compared the EU's starting position to where we ended up?
    Foxinsox says 3-0 to them, though the annotated deal on politico as I recall called it more for them but that we got some things, at least three big wins according to them. But that does not sound gloomy enough for some.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-deal-document-annotated/
    Basically, you can ignore everything fox, William Glenn and archer says on this.

    Guess what, the real world is nuanced.
    I am shocked.

    I keep being told that there are only two types of people.

    Pineapple on pizza divergers and pineapple on pizza aligners.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    He'd stay on, Hague and Osborne had the title and a brief.
    The reports say given Brexit, the First Secretary of State should hold no other portfolio according to Mrs May.

    Apparently that's why her first choice Amber Rudd turned it down, she wants to be both Home Sec and First Secretary of State.
    Oliver Letwin would be a good outside bet, especially after his amendment got May out of a hole on the Brexit date. The best Deputy Leaders tend to be experienced figures who are loyal with no real leadership ambitions of their own and he ticks all those boxes.

    Grayling also a possibility
    New blood is needed - Letwin and Grayling do not cut the mustard
    As Deputy PM no. A Deputy PM must be an experienced and loyal heavyweight, eg Howe, Heseltine, Prescott, Green etc. (Clegg only got the gig under Cameron as LD leader in a Coalition)
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    I'd hope Rory Stewart.

    But looks like Mrs May will conduct a wider reshuffle in January when she culls the likes of Justine Greening, Andrea Leadsom, and Patrick McLoughlin.

    So I'd expect a lot of women promoted into the cabinet, so maybe Esther McVey, but she might be a little to abrasive for Health.
    Thanks.

    Justine Greening seems almost invisible to me.
    She had her confidence shattered, she had to sell Mrs May's grammar schools policies when she didn't believe in it, then had to re-reverse ferret when Mrs May dumped the policy.
    I'd be happy to sell that policy as SoS for Education. From the Lords would be fine...
    As I told you at the time, it is a net vote loser for the Tories.

    Lady Thatcher as Education Secretary and PM reduced the number of grammar schools.

    She knew.
    Thatcher actually stopped the decline in grammar schools as PM, had the rate of decline of grammar schools in the 1970s continued in the 1980s there would have been none left in 1990.

    Instead there are now more grammar schools in the UK now than there were in 1979.
    There were fewer grammar schools at the end of Mrs T's tenures as Education Secretary and PM than at the start.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,793



    The next thing that should happen is that the ex-police officers who revealed confidential information obtained in the course of their duties should be prosecuted.

    +1
  • Options
    hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    Well good riddance to Damian Howard Green! A wonderful firecracker with which to end a dramatic political year.

    On another note, does anybody know the current whereabouts of Stephen Robert Lynn? - he was a director on the Thameside Construction Company, that went into liquidation in March 2014
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    He'd stay on, Hague and Osborne had the title and a brief.
    The reports say given Brexit, the First Secretary of State should hold no other portfolio according to Mrs May.

    Apparently that's why her first choice Amber Rudd turned it down, she wants to be both Home Sec and First Secretary of State.
    Oliver Letwin would be a good outside bet, especially after his amendment got May out of a hole on the Brexit date. The best Deputy Leaders tend to be experienced figures who are loyal with no real leadership ambitions of their own and he ticks all those boxes.

    Grayling also a possibility
    On Letwin,Didn't he advise Thatcher to keep going with the poll tax when others warned of catastrophic outcome.
    He is an intellectual first which may make Grayling a better bet.
  • Options
    Mortimer said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Scott_P said:
    He’s all fart and no follow through.
    But how would the country manage without it’s part-time Brexit secretary?
    The country may well manage a lot better in negotiations as we are currently being buggered over a beer barrel in the current context. It really shows how ridiculous things have become that the PM is judged by some to be in a strengthened position when she and her team have capitulated to the EU and got NOTHING in return.
    Have you compared the EU's starting position to where we ended up?
    Foxinsox says 3-0 to them, though the annotated deal on politico as I recall called it more for them but that we got some things, at least three big wins according to them. But that does not sound gloomy enough for some.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-deal-document-annotated/
    Basically, you can ignore everything fox, William Glenn and archer says on this.

    Guess what, the real world is nuanced.
    I am shocked.

    I keep being told that there are only two types of people.

    Pineapple on pizza divergers and pineapple on pizza aligners.
    Trying to bring a voice for moderation on pineapple on pizza debate shouldn't the other toppings be considered.

    Pineapple together with ham being different to pineapple together with spicy beef.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    I'd hope Rory Stewart.

    But looks like Mrs May will conduct a wider reshuffle in January when she culls the likes of Justine Greening, Andrea Leadsom, and Patrick McLoughlin.

    So I'd expect a lot of women promoted into the cabinet, so maybe Esther McVey, but she might be a little to abrasive for Health.
    Thanks.

    Justine Greening seems almost invisible to me.
    She had her confidence shattered, she had to sell Mrs May's grammar schools policies when she didn't believe in it, then had to re-reverse ferret when Mrs May dumped the policy.
    I'd be happy to sell that policy as SoS for Education. From the Lords would be fine...
    As I told you at the time, it is a net vote loser for the Tories.

    Lady Thatcher as Education Secretary and PM reduced the number of grammar schools.

    She knew.
    Thatcher actually stopped the decline in grammar schools as PM, had the rate of decline of grammar schools in the 1970s continued in the 1980s there would have been none left in 1990.

    Instead there are now more grammar schools in the UK now than there were in 1979.
    There were fewer grammar schools at the end of Mrs T's tenures as Education Secretary and PM than at the start.
    The numbers were virtually unchanged, whereas in the late 1960s and 1970s the vast majority of grammars were closed, a process started under Crosland. Today there are now more grammar schools than there were in 1979, that would not be the case if Thatcher had allowed them to be shut at the rate they were being in the 1970s.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,936

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    I'd hope Rory Stewart.

    But looks like Mrs May will conduct a wider reshuffle in January when she culls the likes of Justine Greening, Andrea Leadsom, and Patrick McLoughlin.

    So I'd expect a lot of women promoted into the cabinet, so maybe Esther McVey, but she might be a little to abrasive for Health.
    Thanks.

    Justine Greening seems almost invisible to me.
    She had her confidence shattered, she had to sell Mrs May's grammar schools policies when she didn't believe in it, then had to re-reverse ferret when Mrs May dumped the policy.
    I'd be happy to sell that policy as SoS for Education. From the Lords would be fine...
    As I told you at the time, it is a net vote loser for the Tories.

    Lady Thatcher as Education Secretary and PM reduced the number of grammar schools.

    She knew.
    I'm pretty sure you didn't say it would be a 'net' vote loser.

    :)

    I did.

    However the polling also found more people in favour of scrapping existing current grammar schools/or not creating any more grammar schools. This is probably based on the studies that show 'that poor children do dramatically worse in selective areas' as grammar schools might help a few, in totality they are worse for children.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/09/09/vox-populi-vox-dei-the-polling-that-explains-why-mrs-may-is-backing-grammar-schools/
    Let's not have that argument again. We don't change minds.

    But I think you said it would be an actual vote loser.

    Given Mrs May got way more votes than DC, without the policy we might be in opposition.

    :)
  • Options

    Damian Green had to go. It turns out he did lie on the question of knowing that porn was found on his computer. That is the entire point.

    The next thing that should happen is that the ex-police officers who revealed confidential information obtained in the course of their duties should be prosecuted.

    It should but it wont.
  • Options
    GIN1138 said:



    The next thing that should happen is that the ex-police officers who revealed confidential information obtained in the course of their duties should be prosecuted.

    +1
    +2
  • Options
    Mortimer said:

    Let's not have that argument again. We don't change minds.

    But I think you said it would be an actual vote loser.

    Given Mrs May got way more votes than DC, without the policy we might be in opposition.

    :)

    The only Tory to win a majority in the last 25 years won on a majority on no more grammar schools.

    Grammar schools is popular with Tories, but it is even more unpopular with other voters.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    I'd hope Rory Stewart.

    But looks like Mrs May will conduct a wider reshuffle in January when she culls the likes of Justine Greening, Andrea Leadsom, and Patrick McLoughlin.

    So I'd expect a lot of women promoted into the cabinet, so maybe Esther McVey, but she might be a little to abrasive for Health.
    Thanks.

    Justine Greening seems almost invisible to me.
    She had her confidence shattered, she had to sell Mrs May's grammar schools policies when she didn't believe in it, then had to re-reverse ferret when Mrs May dumped the policy.
    I'd be happy to sell that policy as SoS for Education. From the Lords would be fine...
    As I told you at the time, it is a net vote loser for the Tories.

    Lady Thatcher as Education Secretary and PM reduced the number of grammar schools.

    She knew.
    I'm pretty sure you didn't say it would be a 'net' vote loser.

    :)

    I did.

    However the polling also found more people in favour of scrapping existing current grammar schools/or not creating any more grammar schools. This is probably based on the studies that show 'that poor children do dramatically worse in selective areas' as grammar schools might help a few, in totality they are worse for children.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/09/09/vox-populi-vox-dei-the-polling-that-explains-why-mrs-may-is-backing-grammar-schools/
    38% supported more grammar schools, 23% wanted to scrap existing grammar schools in that poll. So more wanted to open new grammars than to shut existing ones.

    If you add in the 17% who want to keep current grammars but not open any more, 55% of voters want to have some grammar schools in the UK
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,936

    Mortimer said:

    Let's not have that argument again. We don't change minds.

    But I think you said it would be an actual vote loser.

    Given Mrs May got way more votes than DC, without the policy we might be in opposition.

    :)

    The only Tory to win a majority in the last 25 years won on a majority on no more grammar schools.

    Grammar schools is popular with Tories, but it is even more unpopular with other voters.
    Judging by that final sentence, you could have done with going to one...
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    I'd hope Rory Stewart.

    But looks like Mrs May will conduct a wider reshuffle in January when she culls the likes of Justine Greening, Andrea Leadsom, and Patrick McLoughlin.

    So I'd expect a lot of women promoted into the cabinet, so maybe Esther McVey, but she might be a little to abrasive for Health.
    Thanks.

    Justine Greening seems almost invisible to me.
    She had her confidence shattered, she had to sell Mrs May's grammar schools policies when she didn't believe in it, then had to re-reverse ferret when Mrs May dumped the policy.
    I'd be happy to sell that policy as SoS for Education. From the Lords would be fine...
    As I told you at the time, it is a net vote loser for the Tories.

    Lady Thatcher as Education Secretary and PM reduced the number of grammar schools.

    She knew.
    Thatcher actually stopped the decline in grammar schools as PM, had the rate of decline of grammar schools in the 1970s continued in the 1980s there would have been none left in 1990.

    Instead there are now more grammar schools in the UK now than there were in 1979.
    There were fewer grammar schools at the end of Mrs T's tenures as Education Secretary and PM than at the start.
    The numbers were virtually unchanged, whereas in the late 1960s and 1970s the vast majority of grammars were closed, a process started under Crosland. Today there are now more grammar schools than there were in 1979, that would not be the case if Thatcher had allowed them to be shut at the rate they were being in the 1970s.
    Trying to explain facts to you is a lot like this

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMiKyfd6hA0
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,936

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    I'd hope Rory Stewart.

    But looks like Mrs May will conduct a wider reshuffle in January when she culls the likes of Justine Greening, Andrea Leadsom, and Patrick McLoughlin.

    So I'd expect a lot of women promoted into the cabinet, so maybe Esther McVey, but she might be a little to abrasive for Health.
    Thanks.

    Justine Greening seems almost invisible to me.
    She had her confidence shattered, she had to sell Mrs May's grammar schools policies when she didn't believe in it, then had to re-reverse ferret when Mrs May dumped the policy.
    I'd be happy to sell that policy as SoS for Education. From the Lords would be fine...
    As I told you at the time, it is a net vote loser for the Tories.

    Lady Thatcher as Education Secretary and PM reduced the number of grammar schools.

    She knew.
    Thatcher actually stopped the decline in grammar schools as PM, had the rate of decline of grammar schools in the 1970s continued in the 1980s there would have been none left in 1990.

    Instead there are now more grammar schools in the UK now than there were in 1979.
    There were fewer grammar schools at the end of Mrs T's tenures as Education Secretary and PM than at the start.
    The numbers were virtually unchanged, whereas in the late 1960s and 1970s the vast majority of grammars were closed, a process started under Crosland. Today there are now more grammar schools than there were in 1979, that would not be the case if Thatcher had allowed them to be shut at the rate they were being in the 1970s.
    Trying to explain facts to you is a lot like this

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMiKyfd6hA0
    :)
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Scott_P said:
    He’s all fart and no follow through.
    But how would the country manage without it’s part-time Brexit secretary?
    The country may well manage a lot better in negotiations as we are currently being buggered over a beer barrel in the current context. It really shows how ridiculous things have become that the PM is judged by some to be in a strengthened position when she and her team have capitulated to the EU and got NOTHING in return.
    Have you compared the EU's starting position to where we ended up?
    Foxinsox says 3-0 to them, though the annotated deal on politico as I recall called it more for them but that we got some things, at least three big wins according to them. But that does not sound gloomy enough for some.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-deal-document-annotated/
    Basically, you can ignore everything fox, William Glenn and archer says on this.

    Guess what, the real world is nuanced.
    No one can polish a turd, though May will sprinkle a little glitter on it:

    https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/943432000270200832
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937

    Mortimer said:

    Let's not have that argument again. We don't change minds.

    But I think you said it would be an actual vote loser.

    Given Mrs May got way more votes than DC, without the policy we might be in opposition.

    :)

    The only Tory to win a majority in the last 25 years won on a majority on no more grammar schools.

    Grammar schools is popular with Tories, but it is even more unpopular with other voters.
    Major was a big fan of grammar schools and got a bigger majority in 1992 than Cameron did in 2015. Even Cameron also promised not to close existing grammars.
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    Damian Green had to go. It turns out he did lie on the question of knowing that porn was found on his computer. That is the entire point.

    The next thing that should happen is that the ex-police officers who revealed confidential information obtained in the course of their duties should be prosecuted.

    It should but it wont.
    You are probably right.
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,936

    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Scott_P said:
    He’s all fart and no follow through.
    But how would the country manage without it’s part-time Brexit secretary?
    The country may well manage a lot better in negotiations as we are currently being buggered over a beer barrel in the current context. It really shows how ridiculous things have become that the PM is judged by some to be in a strengthened position when she and her team have capitulated to the EU and got NOTHING in return.
    Have you compared the EU's starting position to where we ended up?
    Foxinsox says 3-0 to them, though the annotated deal on politico as I recall called it more for them but that we got some things, at least three big wins according to them. But that does not sound gloomy enough for some.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-deal-document-annotated/
    Basically, you can ignore everything fox, William Glenn and archer says on this.

    Guess what, the real world is nuanced.
    No one can polish a turd, though May will sprinkle a little glitter on it:

    https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/943432000270200832
    Was that an attempt to disprove what @rcs1000 asserted?
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