Clearly Catalonia will have to keep holding elections until they come out with the right result.
As I wrote for PB in what turns out to have been a remarkably prescient article, the quickest way to solve the Catalan question would be for PP to lose power in Madrid:
Which on present polling they won't. Indeed if the narrow separatist majority in Catalonia leads to further pushes for independence the rest of Spain may well continue to rally around the PP to maintain national unity
There has been no rallying - PP has lost support consistently across all polls since the Catalan crisis began. It has lost substantial support since the last election. It will certainly lose its current blocking majority in the Spanish senate that up to now has prevented serious discussion about constitutional reform.
The PP still leads in all national Spanish polls, that means more Spaniards are still giving their votes to Rajoy's party than any other, yes the PP have done badly in Catalonia but nationally so what? In 2015 in the UK the Tories got an overall majority nationally while winning just 1 seat in Scotland
Actually I’ll stick with it till it’s renewed naturally, but I always ( low level) resented having that red one imposed on me. These things niggle with people, they just do.
It will niggle with a whole generation that their burgundy passports were taken away.
Look, the switch cannot simultaneously be derided as stupid and unimportant, and yet the same tendency in reverse significant.
Personally I prefer the burgundy, as colours go.
It's can be both stupid and unimportant as well as symbolic. A visible reminder of what was thrown away.
That's what many are hoping, but I don't see much evidence for it being true, even though it could be. Some may have stayed home because they thought Corbyn a loser, but now he looks like someone who could actually win and his internal critics lie at his feet, and maybe they will turn out as a result.
I don't see it either. If anything, Labour's polling has increased since the election, showing that Corbynism is more than a protest vote.
Yes, I met anti-Tory voters in Broxtowe who thought Soubry was a sure thing so they might as well vote LibDen or Green. I think VI is broadly unchanged since the election, but the underlying secondaries are better for Labour now - people have got used to the idea that Corbyn might be PM and it wouldn't be the end of the world, and the Government, leaving aside Brexit and Gove, just seems utterly exhausted.
Yet still most polls still have Corbyn far short of a majority
Actually I’ll stick with it till it’s renewed naturally, but I always ( low level) resented having that red one imposed on me. These things niggle with people, they just do.
It will niggle with a whole generation that their burgundy passports were taken away.
Look, the switch cannot simultaneously be derided as stupid and unimportant, and yet the same tendency in reverse significant.
Personally I prefer the burgundy, as colours go.
It's can be both stupid and unimportant as well as symbolic. A visible reminder of what was thrown away.
Why exactly? It’s not the most important thing in the world for sure, but I always objected to having Euro flags stuck on things like driving licences apparently without any real reason other than ( I assume) trying to force a “European” ethos by stealth upon us.
Buggeration is I just renewed mine two weeks ago!
Don't worry you'll probably be forced to pay for a blue one in a couple of years.
Doesn't sound like it'll be mandatory, and that existing ones will remain valid until their expiry date.
Having EU UK passports in circulation will be confusing. Govt won't miss a trick to make a few quid.
Why?? It worked seamlessly from 1988-98 as we switched the other way.
The Red passport promises the bearer greater rights than the blue.
Bugger off and go and become a citizen of the EU then. British passport is world prized for accessibility and portability. Retiring a bit more easily to the Dordogne was but a tiny part of it.
Actually I’ll stick with it till it’s renewed naturally, but I always ( low level) resented having that red one imposed on me. These things niggle with people, they just do.
It will niggle with a whole generation that their burgundy passports were taken away.
Look, the switch cannot simultaneously be derided as stupid and unimportant, and yet the same tendency in reverse significant.
Personally I prefer the burgundy, as colours go.
It's can be both stupid and unimportant as well as symbolic. A visible reminder of what was thrown away.
What was regained.
And not just the color, but also getting rid of that EU text at the top. It's the little things in life.
Actually I’ll stick with it till it’s renewed naturally, but I always ( low level) resented having that red one imposed on me. These things niggle with people, they just do.
It will niggle with a whole generation that their burgundy passports were taken away.
Look, the switch cannot simultaneously be derided as stupid and unimportant, and yet the same tendency in reverse significant.
Personally I prefer the burgundy, as colours go.
It's can be both stupid and unimportant as well as symbolic. A visible reminder of what was thrown away.
What was regained.
And not just the color, but also getting rid of that EU text at the top. It's the little things in life.
Actually I’ll stick with it till it’s renewed naturally, but I always ( low level) resented having that red one imposed on me. These things niggle with people, they just do.
It will niggle with a whole generation that their burgundy passports were taken away.
Look, the switch cannot simultaneously be derided as stupid and unimportant, and yet the same tendency in reverse significant.
Personally I prefer the burgundy, as colours go.
It's can be both stupid and unimportant as well as symbolic. A visible reminder of what was thrown away.
In which case people should stop laughing and calling pathetic for those who regaining the blue is symbolic(of which I am not one). The point was that you cannot dismiss one and not the other, because it is the same thing. Its equally as pathetic, or equally as symbolic (or equally a non-event). I'm glad you believe it a grand, symbolic moment for some leavers, despite being stupid and unimportant.
Actually I’ll stick with it till it’s renewed naturally, but I always ( low level) resented having that red one imposed on me. These things niggle with people, they just do.
It will niggle with a whole generation that their burgundy passports were taken away.
Look, the switch cannot simultaneously be derided as stupid and unimportant, and yet the same tendency in reverse significant.
Personally I prefer the burgundy, as colours go.
It's can be both stupid and unimportant as well as symbolic. A visible reminder of what was thrown away.
What was regained.
And not just the color, but also getting rid of that EU text at the top. It's the little things in life.
Actually the text irked me more that the colour!
The 'United Kingdom' bit might need to be removed by the time they print them.
I think our vote was pathetic. It is not for foreign states to tell others what their capital should be, and even less so to tell other powers whether they can recognise that fact.
Can Israel dictate to the Palestinians where their capital should be?
Yes, because they're the occupying power. Which is sort of the problem.
Even more relevantly, whatever the rights or wrongs of our vote, foreign states tell others what their status or is not all the time - some places tell Israel they are not a country at all, though more acknowledge they are. And one poor place that is very clearly a state, is not recognised by anyone, let alone admitting what their capital is. International relations involves making declarations about other places.
There aren’t many UN member states whose existence a significant number of countries refuse to recognise.
I just don’t see how recognising the reality of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital, which would only change in the event of the state of Israel’s destruction, will make any difference to the ultimate fate of the Palestinians. It’s like Britain only recognising Chinese ‘suzerainty’ over Tibet until 2008.
I don't see how it will make much difference either, but the point was that is is for foreign states to tell others things, or at least they have always done so to some degree, even if it is silly or pointless.
Is this silliness or pointlessness something to be encouraged?
Re Somaliland, a key difference there is that the Somaliland governnent has control over (most) of its nominal territory. The Palestinians have never achieved that.
Do you think there is anyone in the Palestinian leadership who occasionally thinks to themselves: “Shit. We should have taken the state the UN voted to give us all those decades ago.”
No because it wasn't a sustainable state.
What made it unsustainable? Did the UN deliberately create an unsustainable state? Seems an odd thing to do.
I think the '47 borders were unsustainable. Neither side wanted them. The British Mandate was a hot exit, not a consensual one.
Not that that justifies what has gone on since from either side.
Actually I’ll stick with it till it’s renewed naturally, but I always ( low level) resented having that red one imposed on me. These things niggle with people, they just do.
It will niggle with a whole generation that their burgundy passports were taken away.
Look, the switch cannot simultaneously be derided as stupid and unimportant, and yet the same tendency in reverse significant.
Personally I prefer the burgundy, as colours go.
It's can be both stupid and unimportant as well as symbolic. A visible reminder of what was thrown away.
What was regained.
And not just the color, but also getting rid of that EU text at the top. It's the little things in life.
Actually the text irked me more that the colour!
The 'United Kingdom' bit might need to be removed by the time they print them.
"I desperately hope the United Kingdom bit will need to be removed by the time they print them" I think you meant.
Clearly Catalonia will have to keep holding elections until they come out with the right result.
As I wrote for PB in what turns out to have been a remarkably prescient article, the quickest way to solve the Catalan question would be for PP to lose power in Madrid:
Which on present polling they won't. Indeed if the narrow separatist majority in Catalonia leads to further pushes for independence the rest of Spain may well continue to rally around the PP to maintain national unity
There has been no rallying - PP has lost support consistently across all polls since the Catalan crisis began. It has lost substantial support since the last election. It will certainly lose its current blocking majority in the Spanish senate that up to now has prevented serious discussion about constitutional reform.
The PP still leads in all national Spanish polls, that means more Spaniards are still giving their votes to Rajoy's party than any other, yes the PP have done badly in Catalonia but nationally so what? In 2015 in the UK the Tories got an overall majority nationally while winning just 1 seat in Scotland
I will happily bet any sum you care to name that PP will not get an overall majority at the next Spanish GE.
Actually I’ll stick with it till it’s renewed naturally, but I always ( low level) resented having that red one imposed on me. These things niggle with people, they just do.
It will niggle with a whole generation that their burgundy passports were taken away.
Look, the switch cannot simultaneously be derided as stupid and unimportant, and yet the same tendency in reverse significant.
Personally I prefer the burgundy, as colours go.
It's can be both stupid and unimportant as well as symbolic. A visible reminder of what was thrown away.
What was regained.
And not just the color, but also getting rid of that EU text at the top. It's the little things in life.
Actually the text irked me more that the colour!
The 'United Kingdom' bit might need to be removed by the time they print them.
In which case I’d be entitled to two ( if not three depending) passports, so hey ho.
Does he really think that he'll need a visa to go to France? Don't be daft.
Citizens of Nicaragua, Colombia and Vanuatu have visa free travel to the EU for up to 90 days. Perhaps he could apply for citizenship of one of those countries.
Visa free travel and freedom of movement are not the same thing!
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. Dear God the misconceptions! You could toddle off down the post office in the early 70’s with a photo and get a folded card passport for travel in W Europe there and then. In some ways less hassle than now.
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. Dear God the misconceptions! You could toddle off down the post office in the early 70’s with a photo and get a folded card passport for travel in W Europe there and then. In some ways less hassle than now.
Brexit does not in any way turn back the clock to the early 70s. Whether people will or will not need Schengen visas to travel depends on what we negotiate, not on what existed before.
Does he really think that he'll need a visa to go to France? Don't be daft.
Citizens of Nicaragua, Colombia and Vanuatu have visa free travel to the EU for up to 90 days. Perhaps he could apply for citizenship of one of those countries.
Visa free travel and freedom of movement are not the same thing!
Some people as you say have no clue!
Depends what the purpose of the visit is. Currently no Work Visa is needed for the EU. That is pretty certain to change.
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. Dear God the misconceptions! You could toddle off down the post office in the early 70’s with a photo and get a folded card passport for travel in W Europe there and then. In some ways less hassle than now.
Time travel is not an option. The world has moved on, even if Leavers have not.
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. Dear God the misconceptions! You could toddle off down the post office in the early 70’s with a photo and get a folded card passport for travel in W Europe there and then. In some ways less hassle than now.
Brexit does not in any way turn back the clock to the early 70s. Whether people will or will not need Schengen visas to travel depends on what we negotiate, not on what existed before.
Ok, you think we’re going to need visas to go Ibiza for the week? It’s a view.
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. Dear God the misconceptions! You could toddle off down the post office in the early 70’s with a photo and get a folded card passport for travel in W Europe there and then. In some ways less hassle than now.
Brexit does not in any way turn back the clock to the early 70s. Whether people will or will not need Schengen visas to travel depends on what we negotiate, not on what existed before.
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. Dear God the misconceptions! You could toddle off down the post office in the early 70’s with a photo and get a folded card passport for travel in W Europe there and then. In some ways less hassle than now.
Brexit does not in any way turn back the clock to the early 70s. Whether people will or will not need Schengen visas to travel depends on what we negotiate, not on what existed before.
Ok, you think we’re going to need visas to go Ibiza for the week? It’s a view.
Not for a holiday, but for bar work, or work as a DJ, or tour rep, it is very possible that a visa would be required.
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. Dear God the misconceptions! You could toddle off down the post office in the early 70’s with a photo and get a folded card passport for travel in W Europe there and then. In some ways less hassle than now.
Time travel is not an option. The world has moved on, even if Leavers have not.
Quite. But do you think we’re all going to need visas for a 90 day stay in the Dordogne, or Duesseldorf for a business trip?
Clearly Catalonia will have to keep holding elections until they come out with the right result.
As I wrote for PB in what turns out to have been a remarkably prescient article, the quickest way to solve the Catalan question would be for PP to lose power in Madrid:
Which on present polling they won't. Indeed if the narrow separatist majority in Catalonia leads to further pushes for independence the rest of Spain may well continue to rally around the PP to maintain national unity
There has been no rallying - PP has lost support consistently across all polls since the Catalan crisis began. It has lost substantial support since the last election. It will certainly lose its current blocking majority in the Spanish senate that up to now has prevented serious discussion about constitutional reform.
The PP still leads in all national Spanish polls, that means more Spaniards are still giving their votes to Rajoy's party than any other, yes the PP have done badly in Catalonia but nationally so what? In 2015 in the UK the Tories got an overall majority nationally while winning just 1 seat in Scotland
I will happily bet any sum you care to name that PP will not get an overall majority at the next Spanish GE.
The PP have not got an overall majority now but they still managed to block the last unofficial Catalan independence referendum with Citizens support and would likely do so again if the new Catalan Parliament with its small separatist majority tries to push for another referendum
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. Dear God the misconceptions! You could toddle off down the post office in the early 70’s with a photo and get a folded card passport for travel in W Europe there and then. In some ways less hassle than now.
Time travel is not an option. The world has moved on, even if Leavers have not.
Quite. But do you think we’re all going to need visas for a 90 day stay in the Dordogne, or Duesseldorf for a business trip?
Russians do. If we take the 'no deal' option, we'd be in the same position.
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. Dear God the misconceptions! You could toddle off down the post office in the early 70’s with a photo and get a folded card passport for travel in W Europe there and then. In some ways less hassle than now.
Brexit does not in any way turn back the clock to the early 70s. Whether people will or will not need Schengen visas to travel depends on what we negotiate, not on what existed before.
Ok, you think we’re going to need visas to go Ibiza for the week? It’s a view.
Not for a holiday, but for bar work, or work as a DJ, or tour rep, it is very possible that a visa would be required.
What we would sensibly do is work permits for permanent immigration under conditions , special seasonal ones for say agriculture (extendable) and (like Australia) a yearly “ turn up and give it a crack for a year” one for under 30’s. And so on.
It’s not no immigration, which is nuts, it’s under our control borders.
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. Dear God the misconceptions! You could toddle off down the post office in the early 70’s with a photo and get a folded card passport for travel in W Europe there and then. In some ways less hassle than now.
Time travel is not an option. The world has moved on, even if Leavers have not.
Quite. But do you think we’re all going to need visas for a 90 day stay in the Dordogne, or Duesseldorf for a business trip?
I think you're far too blasé about the possible effects of Brexit. A vote to disengage from the rest of Europe might well result in some unwelcome disengagements that Leavers had not considered.
Referring to the legal position in the early 1970s, when far fewer people travelled internationally, is fatuous.
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. Dear God the misconceptions! You could toddle off down the post office in the early 70’s with a photo and get a folded card passport for travel in W Europe there and then. In some ways less hassle than now.
Later than that. In 1990 I distinctly remember, as a responsible over 21 citizen, signing for one for a naive, impressionable 18 year old to take to Amsterdam for a weekend of dope-smoking and vigorous sex. Reader, I married her.
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. Dear God the misconceptions! You could toddle off down the post office in the early 70’s with a photo and get a folded card passport for travel in W Europe there and then. In some ways less hassle than now.
Brexit does not in any way turn back the clock to the early 70s. Whether people will or will not need Schengen visas to travel depends on what we negotiate, not on what existed before.
Ok, you think we’re going to need visas to go Ibiza for the week? It’s a view.
Not for a holiday, but for bar work, or work as a DJ, or tour rep, it is very possible that a visa would be required.
What we would sensibly do is work permits for permanent immigration under conditions , special seasonal ones for say agriculture (extendable) and (like Australia) a yearly “ turn up and give it a crack for a year” one for under 30’s. And so on.
It’s not no immigration, which is nuts, it’s under our control borders.
We could apply those rules ourselves, but the EU27 would not be obliged to reciprocate.
Indeed, as I recall, visas for 3rd country citizens are a national competency rather than an EU one, so at the discretion of 27 different countries and not necessarily uniform.
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. Dear God the misconceptions! You could toddle off down the post office in the early 70’s with a photo and get a folded card passport for travel in W Europe there and then. In some ways less hassle than now.
Time travel is not an option. The world has moved on, even if Leavers have not.
Quite. But do you think we’re all going to need visas for a 90 day stay in the Dordogne, or Duesseldorf for a business trip?
I think you're far too blasé about the possible effects of Brexit. A vote to disengage from the rest of Europe might well result in some unwelcome disengagements that Leavers had not considered.
Referring to the legal position in the early 1970s, when far fewer people travelled internationally, is fatuous.
Hmm a touch harsh I feel. We can’t turn the clock back sure, but I was pointing out the world functioned fine pre EU. Amazingly.
Visas for tourism between UK and the EU. Really? I mean really?
Benidorm bar owners, Limoges estate agents, sell up now.
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. Dear God the misconceptions! You could toddle off down the post office in the early 70’s with a photo and get a folded card passport for travel in W Europe there and then. In some ways less hassle than now.
Later than that. In 1990 I distinctly remember, as a responsible over 21 citizen, signing for one for a naive, impressionable 18 year old to take to Amsterdam for a weekend of dope-smoking and vigorous sex. Reader, I married her.
Och well, at least she got it out of her system before coming back to you.
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. Dear God the misconceptions! You could toddle off down the post office in the early 70’s with a photo and get a folded card passport for travel in W Europe there and then. In some ways less hassle than now.
Brexit does not in any way turn back the clock to the early 70s. Whether people will or will not need Schengen visas to travel depends on what we negotiate, not on what existed before.
Ok, you think we’re going to need visas to go Ibiza for the week? It’s a view.
Not for a holiday, but for bar work, or work as a DJ, or tour rep, it is very possible that a visa would be required.
What we would sensibly do is work permits for permanent immigration under conditions , special seasonal ones for say agriculture (extendable) and (like Australia) a yearly “ turn up and give it a crack for a year” one for under 30’s. And so on.
It’s not no immigration, which is nuts, it’s under our control borders.
We could apply those rules ourselves, but the EU27 would not be obliged to reciprocate.
Indeed, as I recall, visas for 3rd country citizens are a national competency rather than an EU one, so at the discretion of 27 different countries and not necessarily uniform.
I thought if you had a visa from one Schengen country you could visit them all?
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. Dear God the misconceptions! You could toddle off down the post office in the early 70’s with a photo and get a folded card passport for travel in W Europe there and then. In some ways less hassle than now.
Time travel is not an option. The world has moved on, even if Leavers have not.
Quite. But do you think we’re all going to need visas for a 90 day stay in the Dordogne, or Duesseldorf for a business trip?
Russians do. If we take the 'no deal' option, we'd be in the same position.
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. Dear God the misconceptions! You could toddle off down the post office in the early 70’s with a photo and get a folded card passport for travel in W Europe there and then. In some ways less hassle than now.
Later than that. In 1990 I distinctly remember, as a responsible over 21 citizen, signing for one for a naive, impressionable 18 year old to take to Amsterdam for a weekend of dope-smoking and vigorous sex. Reader, I married her.
Och well, at least she got it out of her system before coming back to you.
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. Dear God the misconceptions! You could toddle off down the post office in the early 70’s with a photo and get a folded card passport for travel in W Europe there and then. In some ways less hassle than now.
Time travel is not an option. The world has moved on, even if Leavers have not.
Quite. But do you think we’re all going to need visas for a 90 day stay in the Dordogne, or Duesseldorf for a business trip?
I think you're far too blasé about the possible effects of Brexit. A vote to disengage from the rest of Europe might well result in some unwelcome disengagements that Leavers had not considered.
Referring to the legal position in the early 1970s, when far fewer people travelled internationally, is fatuous.
Hmm a touch harsh I feel. We can’t turn the clock back sure, but I was pointing out the world functioned fine pre EU. Amazingly.
Visas for tourism between UZk and the EU. Really? I mean really?
Benidorm bar owners, Limoges estate agents, sell up now.
One might as usefully refer to the middle of the 19th century and the Don Pacifico affair. It's a shame that many Leavers haven't moved on mentally since 1971. The world is a very different place.
How come CUP are doing relatively poorly? The Indys seem close to getting what they got last time, or 1 or 2 down, but CUP currently predicted to be 6 down on before.
Possibly might be to do with ERC supporters deciding they didn't want to vote for an alliance led by Artur Mas in 2015 and moving left to CUP for that election but moving back to ERC now they are fighting this election on their own. It could explain CUP's rise from 3 to 10 and back down to 4 seats.
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. Dear God the misconceptions! You could toddle off down the post office in the early 70’s with a photo and get a folded card passport for travel in W Europe there and then. In some ways less hassle than now.
Later than that. In 1990 I distinctly remember, as a responsible over 21 citizen, signing for one for a naive, impressionable 18 year old to take to Amsterdam for a weekend of dope-smoking and vigorous sex. Reader, I married her.
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. Dear God the misconceptions! You could toddle off down the post office in the early 70’s with a photo and get a folded card passport for travel in W Europe there and then. In some ways less hassle than now.
Brexit does not in any way turn back the clock to the early 70s. Whether people will or will not need Schengen visas to travel depends on what we negotiate, not on what existed before.
Ok, you think we’re going to need visas to go Ibiza for the week? It’s a view.
Not for a holiday, but for bar work, or work as a DJ, or tour rep, it is very possible that a visa would be required.
What we would sensibly do is work permits for permanent immigration under conditions , special seasonal ones for say agriculture (extendable) and (like Australia) a yearly “ turn up and give it a crack for a year” one for under 30’s. And so on.
It’s not no immigration, which is nuts, it’s under our control borders.
We could apply those rules ourselves, but the EU27 would not be obliged to reciprocate.
Indeed, as I recall, visas for 3rd country citizens are a national competency rather than an EU one, so at the discretion of 27 different countries and not necessarily uniform.
I thought if you had a visa from one Schengen country you could visit them all?
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. Dear God the misconceptions! You could toddle off down the post office in the early 70’s with a photo and get a folded card passport for travel in W Europe there and then. In some ways less hassle than now.
Time travel is not an option. The world has moved on, even if Leavers have not.
Quite. But do you think we’re all going to need visas for a 90 day stay in the Dordogne, or Duesseldorf for a business trip?
Russians do. If we take the 'no deal' option, we'd be in the same position.
Yeah, right.
Thankfully it looks like May is not going to let it happen, but the prospect of the UK taking up an explicitly hostile position towards the EU still appeals to far too many Tory MPs.
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. Dear God the misconceptions! You could toddle off down the post office in the early 70’s with a photo and get a folded card passport for travel in W Europe there and then. In some ways less hassle than now.
Later than that. In 1990 I distinctly remember, as a responsible over 21 citizen, signing for one for a naive, impressionable 18 year old to take to Amsterdam for a weekend of dope-smoking and vigorous sex. Reader, I married her.
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. Dear God the misconceptions! You could toddle off down the post office in the early 70’s with a photo and get a folded card passport for travel in W Europe there and then. In some ways less hassle than now.
Brexit does not in any way turn back the clock to the early 70s. Whether people will or will not need Schengen visas to travel depends on what we negotiate, not on what existed before.
Ok, you think we’re going to need visas to go Ibiza for the week? It’s a view.
Not for a holiday, but for bar work, or work as a DJ, or tour rep, it is very possible that a visa would be required.
What we would sensibly do is work permits for permanent immigration under conditions , special seasonal ones for say agriculture (extendable) and (like Australia) a yearly “ turn up and give it a crack for a year” one for under 30’s. And so on.
It’s not no immigration, which is nuts, it’s under our control borders.
We could apply those rules ourselves, but the EU27 would not be obliged to reciprocate.
Indeed, as I recall, visas for 3rd country citizens are a national competency rather than an EU one, so at the discretion of 27 different countries and not necessarily uniform.
I thought if you had a visa from one Schengen country you could visit them all?
To visit, but not to work, as I recall.
Yeah, obviously you'll need work permits, as will EU citizens wanting to work in the UK.
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. Dear God the misconceptions! You could toddle off down the post office in the early 70’s with a photo and get a folded card passport for travel in W Europe there and then. In some ways less hassle than now.
Brexit does not in any way turn back the clock to the early 70s. Whether people will or will not need Schengen visas to travel depends on what we negotiate, not on what existed before.
Ok, you think we’re going to need visas to go Ibiza for the week? It’s a view.
Not for a holiday, but for bar work, or work as a DJ, or tour rep, it is very possible that a visa would be required.
What we would sensibly do is work permits for permanent immigration under conditions , special seasonal ones for say agriculture (extendable) and (like Australia) a yearly “ turn up and give it a crack for a year” one for under 30’s. And so on.
It’s not no immigration, which is nuts, it’s under our control borders.
We could apply those rules ourselves, but the EU27 would not be obliged to reciprocate.
Indeed, as I recall, visas for 3rd country citizens are a national competency rather than an EU one, so at the discretion of 27 different countries and not necessarily uniform.
I thought if you had a visa from one Schengen country you could visit them all?
To visit, but not to work, as I recall.
Yeah, obviously you'll need work permits, as will EU citizens wanting to work in the UK.
That's what I said, if you read the nested comments.
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. Dear God the misconceptions! You could toddle off down the post office in the early 70’s with a photo and get a folded card passport for travel in W Europe there and then. In some ways less hassle than now.
Brexit does not in any way turn back the clock to the early 70s. Whether people will or will not need Schengen visas to travel depends on what we negotiate, not on what existed before.
Ok, you think we’re going to need visas to go Ibiza for the week? It’s a view.
Not for a holiday, but for bar work, or work as a DJ, or tour rep, it is very possible that a visa would be required.
What we would sensibly do is work permits for permanent immigration under conditions , special seasonal ones for say agriculture (extendable) and (like Australia) a yearly “ turn up and give it a crack for a year” one for under 30’s. And so on.
It’s not no immigration, which is nuts, it’s under our control borders.
We could apply those rules ourselves, but the EU27 would not be obliged to reciprocate.
Indeed, as I recall, visas for 3rd country citizens are a national competency rather than an EU one, so at the discretion of 27 different countries and not necessarily uniform.
I thought if you had a visa from one Schengen country you could visit them all?
To visit, but not to work, as I recall.
Yeah, obviously you'll need work permits, as will EU citizens wanting to work in the UK.
Somehow this appeals to small state capitalists. Go figure...
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. Dear God the misconceptions! You could toddle off down the post office in the early 70’s with a photo and get a folded card passport for travel in W Europe there and then. In some ways less hassle than now.
Time travel is not an option. The world has moved on, even if Leavers have not.
Quite. But do you think we’re all going to need visas for a 90 day stay in the Dordogne, or Duesseldorf for a business trip?
I think you're far too blasé about the possible effects of Brexit. A vote to disengage from the rest of Europe might well result in some unwelcome disengagements that Leavers had not considered.
Referring to the legal position in the early 1970s, when far fewer people travelled internationally, is fatuous.
Hmm a touch harsh I feel. We can’t turn the clock back sure, but I was pointing out the world functioned fine pre EU. Amazingly.
Visas for tourism between UK and the EU. Really? I mean really?
Benidorm bar owners, Limoges estate agents, sell up now.
Has anything changed about international travel since the 1970s?
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. Dear God the misconceptions! You could toddle off down the post office in the early 70’s with a photo and get a folded card passport for travel in W Europe there and then. In some ways less hassle than now.
Time travel is not an option. The world has moved on, even if Leavers have not.
Quite. But do you think we’re all going to need visas for a 90 day stay in the Dordogne, or Duesseldorf for a business trip?
Russians do. If we take the 'no deal' option, we'd be in the same position.
Yeah, right.
Thankfully it looks like May is not going to let it happen, but the prospect of the UK taking up an explicitly hostile position towards the EU still appeals to far too many Tory MPs.
Well maybe, just maybe, the EU might like to look at the world in 2030 and the relationship they want with us, because being hostile and saying they’d enjoy screwing us over will come back and bite them one day. Canada to USA I want, but my wife has been converted from reluctant Remainer to Leaver by the EU attitude so far in negotiations. Moats and beams I feel.
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. Dear God the misconceptions! You could toddle off down the post office in the early 70’s with a photo and get a folded card passport for travel in W Europe there and then. In some ways less hassle than now.
Time travel is not an option. The world has moved on, even if Leavers have not.
Quite. But do you think we’re all going to need visas for a 90 day stay in the Dordogne, or Duesseldorf for a business trip?
Russians do. If we take the 'no deal' option, we'd be in the same position.
Yeah, right.
Thankfully it looks like May is not going to let it happen, but the prospect of the UK taking up an explicitly hostile position towards the EU still appeals to far too many Tory MPs.
Well maybe, just maybe, the EU might like to look at the world in 2030 and the relationship they want with us, because being hostile and saying they’d enjoy screwing us over will come back and bite them one day. Canada to USA I want, but my wife has been converted from reluctant Remainer to Leaver by the EU attitude so far in negotiations. Moats and beams I feel.
By 2030 it will be as if Brexit had never happened.
Actually that's not quite true. We'll be in the Euro, whereas we probably wouldn't have been if we'd voted Remain.
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. Dear God the misconceptions! You could toddle off down the post office in the early 70’s with a photo and get a folded card passport for travel in W Europe there and then. In some ways less hassle than now.
Time travel is not an option. The world has moved on, even if Leavers have not.
Quite. But do you think we’re all going to need visas for a 90 day stay in the Dordogne, or Duesseldorf for a business trip?
Russians do. If we take the 'no deal' option, we'd be in the same position.
Yeah, right.
Thankfully it looks like May is not going to let it happen, but the prospect of the UK taking up an explicitly hostile position towards the EU still appeals to far too many Tory MPs.
Well maybe, just maybe, the EU might like to look at the world in 2030 and the relationship they want with us, because being hostile and saying they’d enjoy screwing us over will come back and bite them one day. Canada to USA I want, but my wife has been converted from reluctant Remainer to Leaver by the EU attitude so far in negotiations. Moats and beams I feel.
By 2030 it will be as if Brexit had never happened.
Actually that's not quite true. We'll be in the Euro, whereas we probably wouldn't have been if we'd voted Remain.
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. Dear God the misconceptions! You could toddle off down the post office in the early 70’s with a photo and get a folded card passport for travel in W Europe there and then. In some ways less hassle than now.
Time travel is not an option. The world has moved on, even if Leavers have not.
Quite. But do you think we’re all going to need visas for a 90 day stay in the Dordogne, or Duesseldorf for a business trip?
Russians do. If we take the 'no deal' option, we'd be in the same position.
Yeah, right.
Thankfully it looks like May is not going to let it happen, but the prospect of the UK taking up an explicitly hostile position towards the EU still appeals to far too many Tory MPs.
Well maybe, just maybe, the EU might like to look at the world in 2030 and the relationship they want with us, because being hostile and saying they’d enjoy screwing us over will come back and bite them one day. Canada to USA I want, but my wife has been converted from reluctant Remainer to Leaver by the EU attitude so far in negotiations. Moats and beams I feel.
It's not clear what the EU is doing that is like hostility or rape? This is just negotiation between international rival powers and it would be better for remainers and leavers to accept it. The UK committed a hostile act against the EU, freely, legitimately and democratically. It is a bit much to expect infinite cheek-turning from Brussels now, but an exit with minimal laceration should be find-able.
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. Dear God the misconceptions! You could toddle off down the post office in the early 70’s with a photo and get a folded card passport for travel in W Europe there and then. In some ways less hassle than now.
Time travel is not an option. The world has moved on, even if Leavers have not.
Quite. But do you think we’re all going to need visas for a 90 day stay in the Dordogne, or Duesseldorf for a business trip?
Russians do. If we take the 'no deal' option, we'd be in the same position.
Yeah, right.
Thankfully it looks like May is not going to let it happen, but the prospect of the UK taking up an explicitly hostile position towards the EU still appeals to far too many Tory MPs.
Well maybe, just maybe, the EU might like to look at the world in 2030 and the relationship they want with us, because being hostile and saying they’d enjoy screwing us over will come back and bite them one day. Canada to USA I want, but my wife has been converted from reluctant Remainer to Leaver by the EU attitude so far in negotiations. Moats and beams I feel.
By 2030 it will be as if Brexit had never happened.
Actually that's not quite true. We'll be in the Euro, whereas we probably wouldn't have been if we'd voted Remain.
I was surprised to see 33% in the UK yesterday supporting joining the Euro. I thought it would be substantially less than that. It is quite a good starting point.
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. Dear God the misconceptions! You could toddle off down the post office in the early 70’s with a photo and get a folded card passport for travel in W Europe there and then. In some ways less hassle than now.
Time travel is not an option. The world has moved on, even if Leavers have not.
Quite. But do you think we’re all going to need visas for a 90 day stay in the Dordogne, or Duesseldorf for a business trip?
Russians do. If we take the 'no deal' option, we'd be in the same position.
Yeah, right.
Thankfully it looks like May is not going to let it happen, but the prospect of the UK taking up an explicitly hostile position towards the EU still appeals to far too many Tory MPs.
Well maybe, just maybe, the EU might like to look at the world in 2030 and the relationship they want with us, because being hostile and saying they’d enjoy screwing us over will come back and bite them one day. Canada to USA I want, but my wife has been converted from reluctant Remainer to Leaver by the EU attitude so far in negotiations. Moats and beams I feel.
It's not clear what the EU is doing that is like hostility or rape? This is just negotiation between international rival powers and it would be better for remainers and leavers to accept it. The UK committed a hostile act against the EU, freely, legitimately and democratically. It is a bit much to expect infinite cheek-turning from Brussels now, but an exit with minimal laceration should be find-able.
The EU27 are merely looking after their members interests. Isn't that what Unions are supposed to do?
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. Dear God the misconceptions! You could toddle off down the post office in the early 70’s with a photo and get a folded card passport for travel in W Europe there and then. In some ways less hassle than now.
Time travel is not an option. The world has moved on, even if Leavers have not.
Quite. But do you think we’re all going to need visas for a 90 day stay in the Dordogne, or Duesseldorf for a business trip?
Russians do. If we take the 'no deal' option, we'd be in the same position.
Yeah, right.
Thankfully it looks like May is not going to let it happen, but the prospect of the UK taking up an explicitly hostile position towards the EU still appeals to far too many Tory MPs.
Well maybe, just maybe, the EU might like to look at the world in 2030 and the relationship they want with us, because being hostile and saying they’d enjoy screwing us over will come back and bite them one day. Canada to USA I want, but my wife has been converted from reluctant Remainer to Leaver by the EU attitude so far in negotiations. Moats and beams I feel.
By 2030 it will be as if Brexit had never happened.
Actually that's not quite true. We'll be in the Euro, whereas we probably wouldn't have been if we'd voted Remain.
I was surprised to see 33% in the UK yesterday supporting joining the Euro. I thought it would be substantially less than that. It is quite a good starting point.
Yes, and Crewe Alexandra are only 5 years off winning the Champions’ League. In theory.
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. Dear God the misconceptions! You could toddle off down the post office in the early 70’s with a photo and get a folded card passport for travel in W Europe there and then. In some ways less hassle than now.
Time travel is not an option. The world has moved on, even if Leavers have not.
Quite. But do you think we’re all going to need visas for a 90 day stay in the Dordogne, or Duesseldorf for a business trip?
Russians do. If we take the 'no deal' option, we'd be in the same position.
Yeah, right.
Thankfully it looks like May is not going to let it happen, but the prospect of the UK taking up an explicitly hostile position towards the EU still appeals to far too many Tory MPs.
Well maybe, just maybe, the EU might like to look at the world in 2030 and the relationship they want with us, because being hostile and saying they’d enjoy screwing us over will come back and bite them one day. Canada to USA I want, but my wife has been converted from reluctant Remainer to Leaver by the EU attitude so far in negotiations. Moats and beams I feel.
By 2030 it will be as if Brexit had never happened.
Actually that's not quite true. We'll be in the Euro, whereas we probably wouldn't have been if we'd voted Remain.
I was surprised to see 33% in the UK yesterday supporting joining the Euro. I thought it would be substantially less than that. It is quite a good starting point.
Yes, and Crewe Alexandra are only 5 years off winning the Champions’ League. In theory.
Seriously, though, it's a surprisingly high number. I'd assumed UK support for Euro membership would be little more than the LD vote share, say 10 to 12%.
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. Dear God the misconceptions! You could toddle off down the post office in the early 70’s with a photo and get a folded card passport for travel in W Europe there and then. In some ways less hassle than now.
Time travel is not an option. The world has moved on, even if Leavers have not.
Quite. But do you think we’re all going to need visas for a 90 day stay in the Dordogne, or Duesseldorf for a business trip?
Russians do. If we take the 'no deal' option, we'd be in the same position.
Yeah, right.
Thankfully it looks like May is not going to let it happen, but the prospect of the UK taking up an explicitly hostile position towards the EU still appeals to far too many Tory MPs.
Well maybe, just maybe, the EU might like to look at the world in 2030 and the relationship they want with us, because being hostile and saying they’d enjoy screwing us over will come back and bite them one day. Canada to USA I want, but my wife has been converted from reluctant Remainer to Leaver by the EU attitude so far in negotiations. Moats and beams I feel.
By 2030 it will be as if Brexit had never happened.
Actually that's not quite true. We'll be in the Euro, whereas we probably wouldn't have been if we'd voted Remain.
I was surprised to see 33% in the UK yesterday supporting joining the Euro. I thought it would be substantially less than that. It is quite a good starting point.
Yes, and Crewe Alexandra are only 5 years off winning the Champions’ League. In theory.
Seriously, though, it's a surprisingly high number. I'd assumed UK support for Euro membership would be little more than the LD vote share, say 10 to 12%.
It's the inevitable polarisation from seeing the other side get to enact their vision, and seeing how hollow it is. Brexit will do more to kill off Euroscepticism than any campaign from the great and the good ever could.
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. Dear God the misconceptions! You could toddle off down the post office in the early 70’s with a photo and get a folded card passport for travel in W Europe there and then. In some ways less hassle than now.
Time travel is not an option. The world has moved on, even if Leavers have not.
Quite. But do you think we’re all going to need visas for a 90 day stay in the Dordogne, or Duesseldorf for a business trip?
Russians do. If we take the 'no deal' option, we'd be in the same position.
Yeah, right.
Thankfully it looks like May is not going to let it happen, but the prospect of the UK taking up an explicitly hostile position towards the EU still appeals to far too many Tory MPs.
Well maybe, just maybe, the EU might like to look at the world in 2030 and the relationship they want with us, because being hostile and saying they’d enjoy screwing us over will come back and bite them one day. Canada to USA I want, but my wife has been converted from reluctant Remainer to Leaver by the EU attitude so far in negotiations. Moats and beams I feel.
By 2030 it will be as if Brexit had never happened.
Actually that's not quite true. We'll be in the Euro, whereas we probably wouldn't have been if we'd voted Remain.
I was surprised to see 33% in the UK yesterday supporting joining the Euro. I thought it would be substantially less than that. It is quite a good starting point.
Yes, and Crewe Alexandra are only 5 years off winning the Champions’ League. In theory.
Seriously, though, it's a surprisingly high number. I'd assumed UK support for Euro membership would be little more than the LD vote share, say 10 to 12%.
Probably a bit of confusion in the question, conflating Euro with Remain?
Interesting was the rejection at big levels in Denmark, Sweden, Poland, and the Czech Republic. EU’s post Brexit issues right there.
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. Dear God the misconceptions! You could toddle off down the post office in the early 70’s with a photo and get a folded card passport for travel in W Europe there and then. In some ways less hassle than now.
Time travel is not an option. The world has moved on, even if Leavers have not.
Quite. But do you think we’re all going to need visas for a 90 day stay in the Dordogne, or Duesseldorf for a business trip?
Russians do. If we take the 'no deal' option, we'd be in the same position.
Yeah, right.
Thankfully it looks like May is not going to let it happen, but the prospect of the UK taking up an explicitly hostile position towards the EU still appeals to far too many Tory MPs.
Well maybe, just maybe, the EU might like to
By 2030 it will be as if Brexit had never happened.
Actually that's not quite true. We'll be in the Euro, whereas we probably wouldn't have been if we'd voted Remain.
I was surprised to see 33% in the UK yesterday supporting joining the Euro. I thought it would be substantially less than that. It is quite a good starting point.
Yes, and Crewe Alexandra are only 5 years off winning the Champions’ League. In theory.
Seriously, though, it's a surprisingly high number. I'd assumed UK support for Euro membership would be little more than the LD vote share, say 10 to 12%.
It's the inevitable polarisation from seeing the other side get to enact their vision, and seeing how hollow it is. Brexit will do more to kill off Euroscepticism than any campaign from the great and the good ever could.
Brexit will also fire up Euro-enthusiasm to levels not seen for 50 years. This is not an issue that is going to end.
I suspect that it will be a Tory PM that takes us back in, though it is very possible that our application would be vetoed by one of the other states.
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. Dear God the misconceptions! You could toddle off down the post office in the early 70’s with a photo and get a folded card passport for travel in W Europe there and then. In some ways less hassle than now.
Time travel is not an option. The world has moved on, even if Leavers have not.
Quite. But do you think we’re all going to need visas for a 90 day stay in the Dordogne, or Duesseldorf for a business trip?
Russians do. If we take the 'no deal' option, we'd be in the same position.
Yeah, right.
Thankfully it looks like May is not going to let it happen, but the prospect of the UK taking up an explicitly hostile position towards the EU still appeals to far too many Tory MPs.
Well maybe, just maybe, the EU l.
By 2030 it will be as if Brexit had never happened.
Actually that's not quite true. We'll be in the Euro, whereas we probably wouldn't have been if we'd voted Remain.
I was surprised to see 33% in the UK yesterday supporting joining the Euro. I thought it would be substantially less than that. It is quite a good starting point.
Yes, and Crewe Alexandra are only 5 years off winning the Champions’ League. In theory.
Seriously, though, it's a surprisingly high number. I'd assumed UK support for Euro membership would be little more than the LD vote share, say 10 to 12%.
Probably a bit of confusion in the question, conflating Euro with Remain?
Interesting was the rejection at big levels in Denmark, Sweden, Poland, and the Czech Republic. EU’s post Brexit issues right there.
Not really. No one has seriously tried to enforce the requirement to join the Euro. Indeed when in Sweden last year I was struck by how hard it was to spend SEK. Busses, restaurants, bars, hotels all wanted just electronic cards. Many refused cash. National currencies may well simply become obselete that way. It doesnt matter much what currency the transaction is nominally done in, when it is all merely a swipe.
Probably a bit of confusion in the question, conflating Euro with Remain?
Interesting was the rejection at big levels in Denmark, Sweden, Poland, and the Czech Republic. EU’s post Brexit issues right there.
The EU's biggest issue continues to be the split between the Eurozone countries - who will likely continue to integrate - and those on the outside who wish to get no deeper in. (And then there's Italy, who wished they'd never got in the Euro in the first place.)
It could go one of two ways: it could result in EU fracturing and the non-core countries departing. Or it could result in the EU putting in place a durable settlement for those countries that will never be a part of the single currency bloc.
18 months ago, I think my money would have been on the former, and I thought we might have been at the forefront of putting together an invigorated EFTA. Instead, we seem to have pissed off those countries most likely to join us.
Probably a bit of confusion in the question, conflating Euro with Remain?
Interesting was the rejection at big levels in Denmark, Sweden, Poland, and the Czech Republic. EU’s post Brexit issues right there.
The EU's biggest issue continues to be the split between the Eurozone countries - who will likely continue to integrate - and those on the outside who wish to get no deeper in. (And then there's Italy, who wished they'd never got in the Euro in the first place.)
It could go one of two ways: it could result in EU fracturing and the non-core countries departing. Or it could result in the EU putting in place a durable settlement for those countries that will never be a part of the single currency bloc.
18 months ago, I think my money would have been on the former, and I thought we might have been at the forefront of putting together an invigorated EFTA. Instead, we seem to have pissed off those countries most likely to join us.
A former Prime Minister of Poland has changed his view and now thinks Poland should aim to join the Euro as soon as possible. The idea that the non-Eurozone EU will gradually move away does not stack up.
Probably a bit of confusion in the question, conflating Euro with Remain?
Interesting was the rejection at big levels in Denmark, Sweden, Poland, and the Czech Republic. EU’s post Brexit issues right there.
The EU's biggest issue continues to be the split between the Eurozone countries - who will likely continue to integrate - and those on the outside who wish to get no deeper in. (And then there's Italy, who wished they'd never got in the Euro in the first place.)
It could go one of two ways: it could result in EU fracturing and the non-core countries departing. Or it could result in the EU putting in place a durable settlement for those countries that will never be a part of the single currency bloc.
18 months ago, I think my money would have been on the former, and I thought we might have been at the forefront of putting together an invigorated EFTA. Instead, we seem to have pissed off those countries most likely to join us.
Surely there will just increasingly be parallel currencies. Bitcoin is obviously a bubble, but just as railways or dot.com bubbles, it is a bubble that foreshadows the future. National currencies debased at whim by governments may be decreasingly desired. Indeed Corbynomics may be the straw that breaks Sterling as a desireable hard currency. Even Bitcoin may be seen as preferrable.
Probably a bit of confusion in the question, conflating Euro with Remain?
Interesting was the rejection at big levels in Denmark, Sweden, Poland, and the Czech Republic. EU’s post Brexit issues right there.
The EU's biggest issue continues to be the split between the Eurozone countries - who will likely continue to integrate - and those on the outside who wish to get no deeper in. (And then there's Italy, who wished they'd never got in the Euro in the first place.)
It could go one of two ways: it could result in EU fracturing and the non-core countries departing. Or it could result in the EU putting in place a durable settlement for those countries that will never be a part of the single currency bloc.
18 months ago, I think my money would have been on the former, and I thought we might have been at the forefront of putting together an invigorated EFTA. Instead, we seem to have pissed off those countries most likely to join us.
A former Prime Minister of Poland has changed his view and now thinks Poland should aim to join the Euro as soon as possible. The idea that the non-Eurozone EU will gradually move away does not stack up.
Probably a bit of confusion in the question, conflating Euro with Remain?
Interesting was the rejection at big levels in Denmark, Sweden, Poland, and the Czech Republic. EU’s post Brexit issues right there.
The EU's biggest issue continues to be the split between the Eurozone countries - who will likely continue to integrate - and those on the outside who wish to get no deeper in. (And then there's Italy, who wished they'd never got in the Euro in the first place.)
It could go one of two ways: it could result in EU fracturing and the non-core countries departing. Or it could result in the EU putting in place a durable settlement for those countries that will never be a part of the single currency bloc.
18 months ago, I think my money would have been on the former, and I thought we might have been at the forefront of putting together an invigorated EFTA. Instead, we seem to have pissed off those countries most likely to join us.
Surely there will just increasingly be parallel currencies. Bitcoin is obviously a bubble, but just as railways or dot.com bubbles, it is a bubble that foreshadows the future. National currencies debased at whim by governments may be decreasingly desired. Indeed Corbynomics may be the straw that breaks Sterling as a desireable hard currency. Even Bitcoin may be seen as preferrable.
Just so you know, I've sold 99% of my bitcoin in the last week
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. Dear God the misconceptions! You could toddle off down the post office in the early 70’s with a photo and get a folded card passport for travel in W Europe there and then. In some ways less hassle than now.
Time travel is not an option. The world has moved on, even if Leavers have not.
Quite. But do you think we’re all going to need visas for a 90 day stay in the Dordogne, or Duesseldorf for a business trip?
Russians do. If we take the 'no deal' option, we'd be in the same position.
Yeah, right.
Thankfully it looks like May is not going to let it happen, but the prospect of the UK taking up an explicitly hostile position towards the EU still appeals to far too many Tory MPs.
Well maybe, just maybe, the EU might like to
By 2030 it will be as if Brexit had never happened.
Actually that's not quite true. We'll be in the Euro, whereas we probably wouldn't have been if we'd voted Remain.
I was surprised to see 33% in the UK yesterday supporting joining the Euro. I thought it would be substantially less than that. It is quite a good starting point.
Yes, and Crewe Alexandra are only 5 years off winning the Champions’ League. In theory.
Seriously, though, it's a surprisingly high number. I'd assumed UK support for Euro membership would be little more than the LD vote share, say 10 to 12%.
It's the inevitable polarisation from seeing the other side get the great and the good ever could.
Brexit will also fire up Euro-enthusiasm to levels not seen for 50 years. This is not an issue that is going to end.
I suspect that it will be a Tory PM that takes us back in, though it is very possible that our application would be vetoed by one of the other states.
We will never rejoin the EU now, EFTA maybe but not the EU, that ship has sailed with the Leave vote. With almost 80% of Tory voters now backing Leave there is also near zero chance a Tory leader will take us back in
Probably a bit of confusion in the question, conflating Euro with Remain?
Interesting was the rejection at big levels in Denmark, Sweden, Poland, and the Czech Republic. EU’s post Brexit issues right there.
The EU's biggest issue continues to be the split between the Eurozone countries - who will likely continue to integrate - and those on the outside who wish to get no deeper in. (And then there's Italy, who wished they'd never got in the Euro in the first place.)
It could go one of two ways: it could result in EU fracturing and the non-core countries departing. Or it could result in the EU putting in place a durable settlement for those countries that will never be a part of the single currency bloc.
18 months ago, I think my money would have been on the former, and I thought we might have been at the forefront of putting together an invigorated EFTA. Instead, we seem to have pissed off those countries most likely to join us.
Surely there will just increasingly be parallel currencies. Bitcoin is obviously a bubble, but just as railways or dot.com bubbles, it is a bubble that foreshadows the future. National currencies debased at whim by governments may be decreasingly desired. Indeed Corbynomics may be the straw that breaks Sterling as a desireable hard currency. Even Bitcoin may be seen as preferrable.
Just so you know, I've sold 99% of my bitcoin in the last week
That is good timing. Had I ever had any then I think I would have sold some months ago.
We will never rejoin the EU now, EFTA maybe but not the EU, that ship has sailed with the Leave vote. With almost 80% of Tory voters now backing Leave there is also near zero chance a Tory leader will take us back in
What are the chances of Northern Ireland being in the EU in 2030 in your view?
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. Dear God the misconceptions! You could toddle off down the post office in the early 70’s with a photo and get a folded card passport for travel in W Europe there and then. In some ways less hassle than now.
Time travel is not an option. The world has moved on, even if Leavers have not.
Quite. But do you think we’re all going to need visas for a 90 day stay in the Dordogne, or Duesseldorf for a business trip?
Russians do. If we take the 'no deal' option, we'd be in the same position.
Yeah, right.
Thankfully it looks like May is not going to let it happen, but the prospect of the UK taking up an explicitly hostile position towards the EU still appeals to far too many Tory MPs.
Well maybe, just maybe, the EU might like to look at the world in 2030 and the relationship they want with us, because being hostile and saying they’d enjoy screwing us over will come back and bite them one day. Canada to USA I want, but my wife has been converted from reluctant Remainer to Leaver by the EU attitude so far in negotiations. Moats and beams I feel.
By 2030 it will be as if Brexit had never happened.
Actually that's not quite true. We'll be in the Euro, whereas we probably wouldn't have been if we'd voted Remain.
15% more oppose the Euro than voted Leave, an EU membership that requires Euro membership would be the final nail in the coffin for our ever rejoining the EU
We will never rejoin the EU now, EFTA maybe but not the EU, that ship has sailed with the Leave vote. With almost 80% of Tory voters now backing Leave there is also near zero chance a Tory leader will take us back in
What are the chances of Northern Ireland being in the EU in 2030 in your view?
Probably a bit of confusion in the question, conflating Euro with Remain?
Interesting was the rejection at big levels in Denmark, Sweden, Poland, and the Czech Republic. EU’s post Brexit issues right there.
The EU's biggest issue continues to be the split between the Eurozone countries - who will likely continue to integrate - and those on the outside who wish to get no deeper in. (And then there's Italy, who wished they'd never got in the Euro in the first place.)
It could go one of two ways: it could result in EU fracturing and the non-core countries departing. Or it could result in the EU putting in place a durable settlement for those countries that will never be a part of the single currency bloc.
18 months ago, I think my money would have been on the former, and I thought we might have been at the forefront of putting together an invigorated EFTA. Instead, we seem to have pissed off those countries most likely to join us.
Surely there will just increasingly be parallel currencies. Bitcoin is obviously a bubble, but just as railways or dot.com bubbles, it is a bubble that foreshadows the future. National currencies debased at whim by governments may be decreasingly desired. Indeed Corbynomics may be the straw that breaks Sterling as a desireable hard currency. Even Bitcoin may be seen as preferrable.
Just so you know, I've sold 99% of my bitcoin in the last week
Yes, it seems a good time to sell. Nonetheless we are moving towards a cashless society using electronic money.
Lots of folk lost their shirts in the dot. com bubble, in the short term at least, but when you now see the scale of our electronic businesses, it is clearly the future.
The non EZ EU currencies convert to Euro in fairly narrow bands, so it reaches a point that the exact currency of a transaction doesn't matter anymore.
When Jezza steps into Downing St, those with money in Euro, CHF or USD will be laughing, those holding Sterling less so.
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. Dear God the misconceptions! You could toddle off down the post office in the early 70’s with a photo and get a folded card passport for travel in W Europe there and then. In some ways less hassle than now.
Time travel is not an option. The world has moved on, even if Leavers have not.
Quite. But do you think we’re all going to need visas for a 90 day stay in the Dordogne, or Duesseldorf for a business trip?
Russians do. If we take the 'no deal' option, we'd be in the same position.
Yeah, right.
Thankfully it looks like May is not going to let it happen, but the prospect of the UK taking up an explicitly hostile position towards the EU still appeals to far too many Tory MPs.
Well maybe, just maybe, the EU might like to look at the world in 2030 and the relationship they want with us, because being hostile and saying they’d enjoy screwing us over will come back and bite them one day. Canada to USA I want, but my wife has been converted from reluctant Remainer to Leaver by the EU attitude so far in negotiations. Moats and beams I feel.
By 2030 it will be as if Brexit had never happened.
Actually that's not quite true. We'll be in the Euro, whereas we probably wouldn't have been if we'd voted Remain.
15% more oppose the Euro than voted Leave, an EU membership that requires Euro membership is the final nail in the coffin for out ever rejoining the EU
33% is +6 on August. At that rate there will be a majority in favour of the Euro by the time Article 50 runs out.
Probably a bit of confusion in the question, conflating Euro with Remain?
Interesting was the rejection at big levels in Denmark, Sweden, Poland, and the Czech Republic. EU’s post Brexit issues right there.
The EU's biggest issue continues to be the split between the Eurozone countries - who will likely continue to integrate - and those on the outside who wish to get no deeper in. (And then there's Italy, who wished they'd never got in the Euro in the first place.)
It could go one of two ways: it could result in EU fracturing and the non-core countries departing. Or it could result in the EU putting in place a durable settlement for those countries that will never be a part of the single currency bloc.
18 months ago, I think my money would have been on the former, and I thought we might have been at the forefront of putting together an invigorated EFTA. Instead, we seem to have pissed off those countries most likely to join us.
Surely there will just increasingly be parallel currencies. Bitcoin is obviously a bubble, but just as railways or dot.com bubbles, it is a bubble that foreshadows the future. National currencies debased at whim by governments may be decreasingly desired. Indeed Corbynomics may be the straw that breaks Sterling as a desireable hard currency. Even Bitcoin may be seen as preferrable.
Just so you know, I've sold 99% of my bitcoin in the last week
Yes, it seems a good time to sell. Nonetheless we are moving towards a cashless society using electronic money.
Lots of folk lost their shirts in the dot. com bubble, in the short term at least, but when you now see the scale of our electronic businesses, it is clearly the future.
The non EZ EU currencies convert to Euro in fairly narrow bands, so it reaches a point that the exact currency of a transaction doesn't matter anymore.
When Jezza steps into Downing St, those with money in Euro, CHF or USD will be laughing, those holding Sterling less so.
If he gets in it will almost certainly not be with a majority and with Sanders leading 2020 US polls and plenty of far left and far right parties still around in Europe they are not immune from the populist threat ever
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. Dear God the misconceptions! You could toddle off down the post office in the early 70’s with a photo and get a folded card passport for travel in W Europe there and then. In some ways less hassle than now.
Time travel is not an option. The world has moved on, even if Leavers have not.
Quite. But do you think we’re all going to need visas for a 90 day stay in the Dordogne, or Duesseldorf for a business trip?
Russians do. If we take the 'no deal' option, we'd be in the same position.
Yeah, right.
Thankfully it looks like May is not going to let it happen, but the prospect of the UK taking up an explicitly hostile position towards the EU still appeals to far too many Tory MPs.
Well maybe, just maybe, the EU might like to look at the world in 2030 and the relationship they want with us, because being hostile and saying they’d enjoy screwing us over will come back and bite them one day. Canada to USA I want, but my wife has been converted from reluctant Remainer to Leaver by the EU attitude so far in negotiations. Moats and beams I feel.
By 2030 it will be as if Brexit had never happened.
Actually that's not quite true. We'll be in the Euro, whereas we probably wouldn't have been if we'd voted Remain.
15% more oppose the Euro than voted Leave, an EU membership that requires Euro membership is the final nail in the coffin for out ever rejoining the EU
33% is +6 on August. At that rate there will be a majority in favour of the Euro by the time Article 50 runs out.
What utter rubbish. More than 33% backed the Euro in 1999 in some polls and far more than 48% backed staying in the EU back then
Probably a bit of confusion in the question, conflating Euro with Remain?
Interesting was the rejection at big levels in Denmark, Sweden, Poland, and the Czech Republic. EU’s post Brexit issues right there.
The EU's biggest issue continues to be the split between the Eurozone countries - who will likely continue to integrate - and those on the outside who wish to get no deeper in. (And then there's Italy, who wished they'd never got in the Euro in the first place.)
It could go one of two ways: it could result in EU fracturing and the non-core countries departing. Or it could result in the EU putting in place a durable settlement for those countries that will never be a part of the single currency bloc.
18 months ago, I think my money would have been on the former, and I thought we might have been at the forefront of putting together an invigorated EFTA. Instead, we seem to have pissed off those countries most likely to join us.
Surely there will just increasingly be parallel currencies. Bitcoin is obviously a bubble, but just as railways or dot.com bubbles, it is a bubble that foreshadows the future. National currencies debased at whim by governments may be decreasingly desired. Indeed Corbynomics may be the straw that breaks Sterling as a desireable hard currency. Even Bitcoin may be seen as preferrable.
Bitcoin has shown the limitations of alternative currencies. As a mode of exchange such a volatile currency is useless. It is nothing other than a highly speculative asset class. What people need from a currency is stable and predictable value which allows measurement of profit and loss and the measurement of other things such as wages.
I think the Bitcoin bubble will prove a major step back for alternatives to national currencies, not a glimpse of the future.
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. Dear God the misconceptions! You could toddle off down the post office in the early 70’s with a photo and get a folded card passport for travel in W Europe there and then. In some ways less hassle than now.
Time travel is not an option. The world has moved on, even if Leavers have not.
Quite. But do you think we’re all going to need visas for a 90 day stay in the Dordogne, or Duesseldorf for a business trip?
Russians do. If we take the 'no deal' option, we'd be in the same position.
Yeah, right.
Thankfully it looks like May is not going to let it happen, but the prospect of the UK taking up an explicitly hostile position towards the EU still appeals to far too many Tory MPs.
Well maybe, just maybe, the EU might like to look at the world in 2030 and the relationship they want with us, because being hostile and saying they’d enjoy screwing us over will come back and bite them one day. Canada to USA I want, but my wife has been converted from reluctant Remainer to Leaver by the EU attitude so far in negotiations. Moats and beams I feel.
By 2030 it will be as if Brexit had never happened.
Actually that's not quite true. We'll be in the Euro, whereas we probably wouldn't have been if we'd voted Remain.
15% more oppose the Euro than voted Leave, an EU membership that requires Euro membership is the final nail in the coffin for out ever rejoining the EU
33% is +6 on August. At that rate there will be a majority in favour of the Euro by the time Article 50 runs out.
What utter rubbish. More than 33% backed the Euro in 1999 in some polls and far more thsn 48% backed staying in the EU back then
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. .
Time travel is not an option. The world has moved on, even if Leavers have not.
Quite. But do you think we’re all going to need visas for a 90 day stay in the Dordogne, or Duesseldorf for a business trip?
Russians do. If we take the 'no deal' option, we'd be in the same position.
Yeah, right.
Thankfully it looks
By 2030 it will be as if Brexit had never happened.
Actually that's not quite true. We'll be in the Euro, whereas we probably wouldn't have been if we'd voted Remain.
I was surprised to see 33% in the UK yesterday supporting joining the Euro. I thought it would be substantially less than that. It is quite a good starting point.
Yes, and Crewe Alexandra are only 5 years off winning the Champions’ League. In theory.
Seriously, though, it's a surprisingly high number. I'd assumed UK support for Euro membership would be little more than the LD vote share, say 10 to 12%.
It's the inevitable polarisation from seeing the other side get the great and the good ever could.
Brexit will also fire up Euro-enthusiasm to levels not seen for 50 years. This is not an issue that is going to end.
I suspect that it will be a Tory PM that takes us back in, though it is very possible that our application would be vetoed by one of the other states.
We will never rejoin the EU now, EFTA maybe but not the EU, that ship has sailed with the Leave vote. With almost 80% of Tory voters now backing Leave there is also near zero chance a Tory leader will take us back in
I wouldnt expect the next leader to take us back in, but rathera couple down the line. My reasoning is that an EU reapplication would require support at 65% ish level, meaning bipartisan support, so either the extinction of the current Tory leadership, or extinction of the Tory party itself. While I would prefer the latter, I suspect the former more likely.
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. Dear God the misconceptions! You could toddle off down the post office in the early 70’s with a photo and get a folded card passport for travel in W Europe there and then. In some ways less hassle than now.
Time travel is not an option. The world has moved on, even if Leavers have not.
Quite. But do you think we’re all going to need visas for a 90 day stay in the Dordogne, or Duesseldorf for a business trip?
Russians do. If we take the 'no deal' option, we'd be in the same position.
Yeah, right.
Thankfully it looks like May is not going to let it happen, but the prospect of the UK taking up an explicitly hostile position towards the EU still appeals to far too many Tory MPs.
Well maybe, just maybe, the EU might like to look at the world in 2030 and the relationship they want with us, because being hostile and saying they’d enjoy screwing us over will come back and bite them one day. Canada to USA I want, but my wife has been converted from reluctant Remainer to Leaver by the EU attitude so far in negotiations. Moats and beams I feel.
By 2030 it will be as if Brexit had never happened.
Actually that's not quite true. We'll be in the Euro, whereas we probably wouldn't have been if we'd voted Remain.
15% more oppose the Euro than voted Leave, an EU membership that requires Euro membership is the final nail in the coffin for out ever rejoining the EU
33% is +6 on August. At that rate there will be a majority in favour of the Euro by the time Article 50 runs out.
What utter rubbish. More than 33% backed the Euro in 1999 in some polls and far more thsn 48% backed staying in the EU back then
They have not moved at all to any significant degree a 67% or 73% vote for sterling, is still a landslide by any definition
Look at the big picture. In the midst of Brexit, we are seeing support for the Euro at levels we haven't seen since Blair was campaigning for it. That should tell you something.
Probably a bit of confusion in the question, conflating Euro with Remain?
Interesting was the rejection at big levels in Denmark, Sweden, Poland, and the Czech Republic. EU’s post Brexit issues right there.
The EU's biggest issue continues to be the split between the Eurozone countries - who will likely continue to integrate - and those on the outside who wish to get no deeper in. (And then there's Italy, who wished they'd never got in the Euro in the first place.)
It could go one of two ways: it could result in EU fracturing and the non-core countries departing. Or it could result in the EU putting in place a durable settlement for those countries that will never be a part of the single currency bloc.
18 months ago, I think my money would have been on the former, and I thought we might have been at the forefront of putting together an invigorated EFTA. Instead, we seem to have pissed off those countries most likely to join us.
Surely there will just increasingly be parallel currencies. Bitcoin is obviously a bubble, but just as railways or dot.com bubbles, it is a bubble that foreshadows the future. National currencies debased at whim by governments may be decreasingly desired. Indeed Corbynomics may be the straw that breaks Sterling as a desireable hard currency. Even Bitcoin may be seen as preferrable.
Bitcoin has shown the limitations of alternative currencies. As a mode of exchange such a volatile currency is useless. It is nothing other than a highly speculative asset class. What people need from a currency is stable and predictable value which allows measurement of profit and loss and the measurement of other things such as wages.
I think the Bitcoin bubble will prove a major step back for alternatives to national currencies, not a glimpse of the future.
I agree, Bitcoin is a false prophet. The use of money as a store of value requires stability. My experience in Stockholm, where I struggled to find anyone I could use my SEK cash with, so illuminating. I used my swipe card and was asked what currency that I wished to pay in. Government backed electronic money will drive out the speculators.
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. .
Time travel is not an option. The world has moved on, even if Leavers have not.
Quite. But do you think we’re all going to need visas for a 90 day stay in the Dordogne, or Duesseldorf for a business trip?
Russians do. If we take the 'no deal' option, we'd be in the same position.
Yeah, right.
Thankfully it looks
By 2030 it will be as if Brexit had never happened.
Actually that's not quite true. We'll be in the Euro, whereas we probably wouldn't have been if we'd voted Remain.
I was surprised to see 33% in the UK yesterday suarting point.
Yes, and Crewe Alexandra are only 5 years off winning the Champions’ League. In theory.
Seriously, though, it's a surprisingly high number. I'd assumed UK support for Euro membership would be little more than the LD vote share, say 10 to 12%.
It's the inevitable polarisation from seeing the other side get the great and the good ever could.
Brexit will also fire up Euro-enthusiasm to levels not seen for 50 years. This is not an issue that is going to end.
I suspect that it will be a Tory PM that takes us back in, though it is very possible that our application would be vetoed by one of the other states.
We will never rejoin the EU now, EFTA maybe but not the EU, that ship hasack in
I wouldnt expect the next leader to take us back in, but rathera couple down the line. My reasoning is that an EU reapplication would require support at 65% ish level, meaning bipartisan support, so either the extinction of the current Tory leadership, or extinction of the Tory party itself. While I would prefer the latter, I suspect the former more likely.
35% opposed would still be the bulk of the 42% of Tory voters, so the Tory vote and leadership would still be opposed.
However in reality UK EU membership is as dead as the Dodo now, EFTA is the most we will ever rejoin
Probably a bit of confusion in the question, conflating Euro with Remain?
Interesting was the rejection at big levels in Denmark, Sweden, Poland, and the Czech Republic. EU’s post Brexit issues right there.
The EU's biggest issue continues to be the split between the Eurozone countries - who will likely continue to integrate - and those on the outside who wish to get no deeper in. (And then there's Italy, who wished they'd never got in the Euro in the first place.)
It could go one of two ways: it could result in EU fracturing and the non-core countries departing. Or it could result in the EU putting in place a durable settlement for those countries that will never be a part of the single currency bloc.
18 months ago, I think my money would have been on the former, and I thought we might have been at the forefront of putting together an invigorated EFTA. Instead, we seem to have pissed off those countries most likely to join us.
The "everyone piles in and joins the euro ASAP" scenario could go one of several ways too.
The worst case, particularly if political considerations drive a rapid expansion of the eurozone, is a larger-scale repeat of Greece.
They have not moved at all to any significant degree a 67% or 73% vote for sterling, is still a landslide by any definition
Look at the big picture. In the midst of Brexit, we are seeing support for the Euro at levels we haven't seen since Blair was campaigning for it. That should tell you something.
What pro Euro fanatics under Blair have gone back to being pro Euro fanatics?
The fact there were so few pro Euro fanatics even in 1999 meant that Blair never called a referendum on the Euro as he knew he would lose it and lose it heavily.
I have little doubt that you'll still be able to enjoy visa free travel in Europe even with a blue passport.
Indeed. Dear God the misconceptions! You could toddle off down the post office in the early 70’s with a photo and get a folded card passport for travel in W Europe there and then. In some ways less hassle than now.
Time travel is not an option. The world has moved on, even if Leavers have not.
Quite. But do you think we’re all going to need visas for a 90 day stay in the Dordogne, or Duesseldorf for a business trip?
Russians do. If we take the 'no deal' option, we'd be in the same position.
Yeah, right.
Thankfully it looks like May is not going to let it happen, but the prospect of the UK taking up an explicitly hostile position towards the EU still appeals to far too many Tory MPs.
Well maybe, just maybe, the EU might like .
By 2030 it will be as if Brexit had never happened.
Actually that's not quite true. We'll be in the Euro, whereas we probably wouldn't have been if we'd voted Remain.
15% more oppose the Euro than voted Leave, an EU membership that requires Euro membership is the final nail in the coffin for out ever rejoining the EU
33% is +6 on August. At that rate there will be a majority in favour of the Euro by the time Article 50 runs out.
What utter rubbish. More than 33% backed the Euro in 1999 in some polls and far more thsn 48% backed staying in the EU back then
They have not moved at all to any significant degree, a 67% or 73% vote for sterlin, is still a landslide by any definition
How do you think that would change with Corbyn and McDonnell in Downing street? If Sterling was being debased, support for a reliable alternative would soar.
The use of money as a store of value requires stability. My experience in Stockholm, where I struggled to find anyone I could use my SEK cash with, so illuminating. I used my swipe card and was asked what currency that I wished to pay in. Government backed electronic money will drive out the speculators.
A word of caution in how illuminating this all is. Just because the money is unseen and electronic doesn't mean that the currency doesn't matter at some point. And the experiences of someone making big decisions about borrowing, saving and investments are different to those of a consumer on the tourist trail. I'm sure plenty of those folk who took out CHF mortgages in Hungary were under the illusion that, since it was all just "numbers on a computer somewhere", it didn't really matter what denomination of numbers-on-a-computer they were. But it did.
Comments
A win is a win, but not convinced it was a good bet.
This is great news. Couldn't be happier.
Not that that justifies what has gone on since from either side.
Good night.
Worn and faded, like post Brexit UK - there, saved you some time, William.
https://www.libdems.org.uk/brexit-papers-quiz#
Visa free travel and freedom of movement are not the same thing!
Some people as you say have no clue!
(Which bears a similar relation to proper navy as the Cambridge blue to Oxford.)
It’s not no immigration, which is nuts, it’s under our control borders.
Referring to the legal position in the early 1970s, when far fewer people travelled internationally, is fatuous.
Reader, I married her.
Indeed, as I recall, visas for 3rd country citizens are a national competency rather than an EU one, so at the discretion of 27 different countries and not necessarily uniform.
Visas for tourism between UK and the EU. Really? I mean really?
Benidorm bar owners, Limoges estate agents, sell up now.
Actually that's not quite true. We'll be in the Euro, whereas we probably wouldn't have been if we'd voted Remain.
Interesting was the rejection at big levels in Denmark, Sweden, Poland, and the Czech Republic. EU’s post Brexit issues right there.
I suspect that it will be a Tory PM that takes us back in, though it is very possible that our application would be vetoed by one of the other states.
It could go one of two ways: it could result in EU fracturing and the non-core countries departing. Or it could result in the EU putting in place a durable settlement for those countries that will never be a part of the single currency bloc.
18 months ago, I think my money would have been on the former, and I thought we might have been at the forefront of putting together an invigorated EFTA. Instead, we seem to have pissed off those countries most likely to join us.
They will. “Ever closer union”. The Project.
And no big nasty foot dragging Britain to hide behind any more.
http://visegradinsight.eu/a-leap-into-the-euro-pool/
Lots of folk lost their shirts in the dot. com bubble, in the short term at least, but when you now see the scale of our electronic businesses, it is clearly the future.
The non EZ EU currencies convert to Euro in fairly narrow bands, so it reaches a point that the exact currency of a transaction doesn't matter anymore.
When Jezza steps into Downing St, those with money in Euro, CHF or USD will be laughing, those holding Sterling less so.
I think the Bitcoin bubble will prove a major step back for alternatives to national currencies, not a glimpse of the future.
https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/893112642793091072
The worst case, particularly if political considerations drive a rapid expansion of the eurozone, is a larger-scale repeat of Greece.
Mike or Robert, could you please confirm you have received the PB.com 2017 crossword.
Thanks.
St.John
The fact there were so few pro Euro fanatics even in 1999 meant that Blair never called a referendum on the Euro as he knew he would lose it and lose it heavily.