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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » In terms of leadership chances Jeremy Hunt emerges as the winn

SystemSystem Posts: 6,199
edited December 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » In terms of leadership chances Jeremy Hunt emerges as the winner from the DGreen exit

Yesterday I had a bet for the first time on the Health Secretary, Jeremy Hunt, as next Conservative leader. I got 23/1 on Betfair.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 18,077
    He's also been too busy with Health to wade into Brexit, which might not hurt him.....
  • RogerRoger Posts: 9,358
    I read the very interesting header by Charles the other day who tipped him. He seemed to be on the inside track. I've never much liked Hunt but in the light of Charles tip I took notice of his various interviews yesterday and he'd raised his performance more than a notch. Quite impressive in fact. Doesn't seem the type to be importuning young girls either.

    Having earlier in the year tipped variously Damien Green and Michael Fallon maybe it'll be third time lucky......
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    He's also been too busy with Health to wade into Brexit, which might not hurt him.....

    Additionally, Murdoch owes him a few favours for his time looking at the BSkyB deal.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    He's also been too busy with Health to wade into Brexit, which might not hurt him.....

    Additionally, Murdoch owes him a few favours for his time looking at the BSkyB deal.
    For those who have forgotten the incident:

    https://www.channel4.com/news/james-murdoch-gives-evidence-at-leveson-inquiry

    I am sure that all those appalled by police misuse of confidential data will be equally appalled at this.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 10,192

    He's also been too busy with Health to wade into Brexit, which might not hurt him.....

    Additionally, Murdoch owes him a few favours for his time looking at the BSkyB deal.
    For those who have forgotten the incident:

    https://www.channel4.com/news/james-murdoch-gives-evidence-at-leveson-inquiry

    I am sure that all those appalled by police misuse of confidential data will be equally appalled at this.
    Wasn’t this looked into and it was determined that no rules had been broken? I cannot remember the details but I seem to recall - dimly - that the allegations were looked into at the time.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 9,358
    OT. All eyes on Miss Maltby. This'll be an interesting one to follow. My guess is she's destined for 'I'm a (wannabe) celebrity get me out of here'. Either her reputation or Greens will be in tatters. Watching her yesterday I thought she was pretty unconvincing. It might have been a genuine misunderstanding but I wouldn't bet on it. I'm sure some well meaning publication will winkle out the truth. I don't think we've heard the last of it or her.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,540

    He's also been too busy with Health to wade into Brexit, which might not hurt him.....

    Yep, he’s kept his head down and got on with the day job of running one of the most challenging departments. He’s one of the few people to back in a market where most of the favourites are lays.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 9,358

    He's also been too busy with Health to wade into Brexit, which might not hurt him.....

    Additionally, Murdoch owes him a few favours for his time looking at the BSkyB deal.
    For those who have forgotten the incident:

    https://www.channel4.com/news/james-murdoch-gives-evidence-at-leveson-inquiry

    I am sure that all those appalled by police misuse of confidential data will be equally appalled at this.
    Thank's. I'd forgotten the time he spent in the Murdochs pocket. I knew there was a reason I didn't like him
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,540
    For an idea of what Mr Hunt has to put up with, look at the comments below this tweet.
  • As the Founder and Chairman of Hunt4Leader campaign, I endorse this thread.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited December 2017
    Cyclefree said:

    He's also been too busy with Health to wade into Brexit, which might not hurt him.....

    Additionally, Murdoch owes him a few favours for his time looking at the BSkyB deal.
    For those who have forgotten the incident:

    https://www.channel4.com/news/james-murdoch-gives-evidence-at-leveson-inquiry

    I am sure that all those appalled by police misuse of confidential data will be equally appalled at this.
    Wasn’t this looked into and it was determined that no rules had been broken? I cannot remember the details but I seem to recall - dimly - that the allegations were looked into at the time.
    He just brazenly sat them out as I recall.

    A brass neck and being friends with the Murdoch press are two further reasons to back Hunt.

    I don't rate him as Health Secretary, but he is not the worst of my professional career. That would be Patricia Hewitt, closely followed by Alan Milburn, but I do have pretty low expectations of capability in the role.

    He is disliked in the NHS for a variety of reasons. The junior doctors are obvious, bur his support of creeping privatisation is another. Mostly the steady erosion of pay and conditions affecting staff retention is driven by Treasury financial settlements, Hunt merely has to implement them.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 19,818
    Roger said:

    I read the very interesting header by Charles the other day who tipped him. He seemed to be on the inside track. I've never much liked Hunt but in the light of Charles tip I took notice of his various interviews yesterday and he'd raised his performance more than a notch. Quite impressive in fact. Doesn't seem the type to be importuning young girls either.

    Having earlier in the year tipped variously Damien Green and Michael Fallon maybe it'll be third time lucky......

    Argh! The curse of Rogerdamus :smile:
  • felixfelix Posts: 7,667
    He's got the look, he's clever, young enough - the party could do much worse - see HYUFD'S posts. B-)
  • felix said:

    He's got the look, he's clever, young enough - the party could do much worse - see HYUFD'S posts. B-)

    Jeremy Hunt is also rich as creases*

    Jeremy Hunt to make £17million from sale of internet business.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/active/10436237/Jeremy-Hunt-to-make-17million-from-sale-of-internet-business.html

    *PBers of a certain vintage will understand.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 10,582
    A more daring move would be to make Boris First Secretary and tell him to concentrate on running around the country defending the government line (which so far of course he hasn't been doing) and move Hunt to the Foreign Office.

    Seems unlikely May would do it but it would solve many problems.

    Moreover it would be hilarious to see the reaction of Carwyn Jones on being told his new link man is Boris...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 10,582

    felix said:

    He's got the look, he's clever, young enough - the party could do much worse - see HYUFD'S posts. B-)

    Jeremy Hunt is also rich as creases*

    Jeremy Hunt to make £17million from sale of internet business.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/active/10436237/Jeremy-Hunt-to-make-17million-from-sale-of-internet-business.html

    *PBers of a certain vintage will understand.
    I would have expected that to be an autocorrect disaster on 'Croesus'. But if it's before 2007 that seems unlikely.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 10,584
    edited December 2017
    Jeremy Hunt is my current MP - seems to excite no very strong feelings either way except among partisans. They could do worse.

    Interesting piece on the US mid-terms next year:

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/12/21/16803050/latest-2018-midterms-polling-extremely-good-democrats

    Had a look at Betfair on this - it's a very thin market, but Dems are 1.66, which doesn't look good enough odds. One point on gerrymandering - however you draw the boundaries, there comes a point where you lose big time, because you've fixed it so that in normal times you win narrowly in lots of seats while the other side piles up useless majorities in a few. If there's a big swing, you lose most of those narrow majorities and are suddenly in deep trouble.
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,166
    felix said:

    He's got the look, he's clever, young enough - the party could do much worse - see HYUFD'S posts. B-)

    And just shows how desperate the Tories are for another replacement of TMay if they are considering *unt. Tmay is mildly disliked for being incompetent, Hunt is vehemently hated by too many people who would be only too happy to stick knives into his back, his front or any accessible body part. If there was any chance of becoming leader of the Tories / PM then his record will be gone over, and from what is readily available now, it won't be pretty....
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 5,573
    edited December 2017

    Jeremy Hunt is my current MP - seems to excite no very strong feelings either way except among partisans. They could do worse.

    Interesting piece on the US mid-terms next year:

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/12/21/16803050/latest-2018-midterms-polling-extremely-good-democrats

    Had a look at Betfair on this - it's a very thin market, but Dems are 1.66, which doesn't look good enough odds. One point on gerrymandering - however you draw the boundaries, there comes a point where you lose big time, because you've fixed it so that in normal times you win narrowly in lots of seats while the other side piles up useless majorities in a few. If there's a big swing, you lose most of those narrow majorities and are suddenly in deep trouble.

    tim used to get very excited about Hunt. .. but he is a survivor.To me he seems characterless..
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 10,582
    OchEye said:

    felix said:

    He's got the look, he's clever, young enough - the party could do much worse - see HYUFD'S posts. B-)

    And just shows how desperate the Tories are for another replacement of TMay if they are considering *unt. Tmay is mildly disliked for being incompetent, Hunt is vehemently hated by too many people who would be only too happy to stick knives into his back, his front or any accessible body part. If there was any chance of becoming leader of the Tories / PM then his record will be gone over, and from what is readily available now, it won't be pretty....
    It is worth remembering at this point that this is what the Tories thought about Jeremy Corbyn's record.

    I wasn't very well this summer, but I've got a general impression it didn't quite work as expected.

    The fact is that while Hunt should have gone over the BSkyB scandal, he didn't, and his record as Health Secretary is actually not bad considering the cards he was dealt by Lansley - certainly better than Gove's at Education. So he is a plausible candidate.

    A more serious objection to my mind is that May tried to replace him with Crabb last year before Crabb had to resign, which suggests she doesn't like him very much. This is a post she offered to her friends - Rudd and Green. So perhaps we should consider those she is closest to as contenders in which case we might still be looking at Williamson.
  • Good morning, everyone.

    Backed Hunt a little myself (mostly at similar odds, might have a pound or two longer). As Mr. Root said, he does seem characterless. On the other hand, Boris is full of character. And I would certainly prefer Hunt to him.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    OchEye said:

    felix said:

    He's got the look, he's clever, young enough - the party could do much worse - see HYUFD'S posts. B-)

    And just shows how desperate the Tories are for another replacement of TMay if they are considering *unt. Tmay is mildly disliked for being incompetent, Hunt is vehemently hated by too many people who would be only too happy to stick knives into his back, his front or any accessible body part. If there was any chance of becoming leader of the Tories / PM then his record will be gone over, and from what is readily available now, it won't be pretty....
    Certainly there are some Hunt haters, but being attacked by Corbynites is hardly going to harm him with the Tory selectorate.

    Hunt is slippery, mendacious and ruthless, but at least has a degree of competence and work ethic lacking in his rivals. For example, after the Junior doctor dispute he quietly kicked into touch plans to change the Consultants, Speciality grades and GPs into touch. He knew it was a Phyrric victory.
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,538
    ydoethur said:

    felix said:

    He's got the look, he's clever, young enough - the party could do much worse - see HYUFD'S posts. B-)

    Jeremy Hunt is also rich as creases*

    Jeremy Hunt to make £17million from sale of internet business.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/active/10436237/Jeremy-Hunt-to-make-17million-from-sale-of-internet-business.html

    *PBers of a certain vintage will understand.
    I would have expected that to be an autocorrect disaster on 'Croesus'. But if it's before 2007 that seems unlikely.
    I think it's a trouser press joke..

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 20,812
    I've been saying this for some time. I remember being particularly impressed when he was sent to a R5 Live phone in during the 2015 election as a substitute for Cameron at pretty short notice. He handled difficult questions with the same clarity and at least superficial straightforwardness that we heard yesterday.

    He has many of Cameron's attributes as a communicator. He perhaps doesn't have the extra gears of sheer intellect that Cameron has but I can't think of anyone currently in public life that does. As a very definite Cameroon his star waned somewhat when May took the leadership and he was sidelined to a degree. His enthusiastic support for May yesterday showed how he has overcome that.

    For me, he is a class apart from any of the contenders. A remainer determined to make Brexit work, a unifier, a team player with a bit of steel as we saw when he refused to be bullied by the junior doctors, a man who has handled a very difficult brief during the longest period of restraint in health spending since the NHS was formed without it destroying the government. It's not even close.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 9,919
    Green sacked for fibbing.
    Let's appoint Hunt.


    You couldn't make it up.

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    ydoethur said:

    OchEye said:

    felix said:

    He's got the look, he's clever, young enough - the party could do much worse - see HYUFD'S posts. B-)

    And just shows how desperate the Tories are for another replacement of TMay if they are considering *unt. Tmay is mildly disliked for being incompetent, Hunt is vehemently hated by too many people who would be only too happy to stick knives into his back, his front or any accessible body part. If there was any chance of becoming leader of the Tories / PM then his record will be gone over, and from what is readily available now, it won't be pretty....
    It is worth remembering at this point that this is what the Tories thought about Jeremy Corbyn's record.

    I wasn't very well this summer, but I've got a general impression it didn't quite work as expected.

    The fact is that while Hunt should have gone over the BSkyB scandal, he didn't, and his record as Health Secretary is actually not bad considering the cards he was dealt by Lansley - certainly better than Gove's at Education. So he is a plausible candidate.

    A more serious objection to my mind is that May tried to replace him with Crabb last year before Crabb had to resign, which suggests she doesn't like him very much. This is a post she offered to her friends - Rudd and Green. So perhaps we should consider those she is closest to as contenders in which case we might still be looking at Williamson.
    Does May have the ability to choose her successor? I suspect not. When she finally goes there will be a new broom.
  • felixfelix Posts: 7,667
    OchEye said:

    felix said:

    He's got the look, he's clever, young enough - the party could do much worse - see HYUFD'S posts. B-)

    And just shows how desperate the Tories are for another replacement of TMay if they are considering *unt. Tmay is mildly disliked for being incompetent, Hunt is vehemently hated by too many people who would be only too happy to stick knives into his back, his front or any accessible body part. If there was any chance of becoming leader of the Tories / PM then his record will be gone over, and from what is readily available now, it won't be pretty....
    Useful post for getting into the mind of those internet trolls who unwittingly or not encourage the more extreme abuse of politicians.
  • Dr. Foxinsox, "Hunt is slippery, mendacious and ruthless..." you make a powerful case for him :p
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 10,582

    ydoethur said:

    OchEye said:

    felix said:

    He's got the look, he's clever, young enough - the party could do much worse - see HYUFD'S posts. B-)

    And just shows how desperate the Tories are for another replacement of TMay if they are considering *unt. Tmay is mildly disliked for being incompetent, Hunt is vehemently hated by too many people who would be only too happy to stick knives into his back, his front or any accessible body part. If there was any chance of becoming leader of the Tories / PM then his record will be gone over, and from what is readily available now, it won't be pretty....
    It is worth remembering at this point that this is what the Tories thought about Jeremy Corbyn's record.

    I wasn't very well this summer, but I've got a general impression it didn't quite work as expected.

    The fact is that while Hunt should have gone over the BSkyB scandal, he didn't, and his record as Health Secretary is actually not bad considering the cards he was dealt by Lansley - certainly better than Gove's at Education. So he is a plausible candidate.

    A more serious objection to my mind is that May tried to replace him with Crabb last year before Crabb had to resign, which suggests she doesn't like him very much. This is a post she offered to her friends - Rudd and Green. So perhaps we should consider those she is closest to as contenders in which case we might still be looking at Williamson.
    Does May have the ability to choose her successor? I suspect not. When she finally goes there will be a new broom.
    I would agree. But name one First Secretary of State/Deputy PM who has succeeded a PM. Although he didn't hold the title, I think you have to go all the way back to Eden in 1955. So I'm not sure that's relevant.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Dr. Foxinsox, "Hunt is slippery, mendacious and ruthless..." you make a powerful case for him :p

    I am very much in the green on him in my betfair account. Having said that my overall book on both Tory and Labour next leaders is a real mess. So many likely candidates fail on the greasy pole.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 10,192

    Cyclefree said:

    He's also been too busy with Health to wade into Brexit, which might not hurt him.....

    Additionally, Murdoch owes him a few favours for his time looking at the BSkyB deal.
    For those who have forgotten the incident:

    https://www.channel4.com/news/james-murdoch-gives-evidence-at-leveson-inquiry

    I am sure that all those appalled by police misuse of confidential data will be equally appalled at this.
    Wasn’t this looked into and it was determined that no rules had been broken? I cannot remember the details but I seem to recall - dimly - that the allegations were looked into at the time.
    He just brazenly sat them out as I recall.

    A brass neck and being friends with the Murdoch press are two further reasons to back Hunt.

    I don't rate him as Health Secretary, but he is not the worst of my professional career. That would be Patricia Hewitt, closely followed by Alan Milburn, but I do have pretty low expectations of capability in the role.

    He is disliked in the NHS for a variety of reasons. The junior doctors are obvious, bur his support of creeping privatisation is another. Mostly the steady erosion of pay and conditions affecting staff retention is driven by Treasury financial settlements, Hunt merely has to implement them.

    Interesting that your two worst are Labour.

    As a matter of interest, who would you rate as best and why?

    What would your ideal Health Secretary do?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 10,582

    Dr. Foxinsox, "Hunt is slippery, mendacious and ruthless..." you make a powerful case for him :p

    I was reminded of Fisher.

    'Whatever you do, do not appoint Michael Ramsey. I was his headmaster and I know him well. He is a scholar, a theologian and a man of prayer, and therefore quite unsuited to being Archbishop of Canterbury.'
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 8,487
    Hunt is rising too soon.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 11,364
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    OchEye said:

    felix said:

    He's got the look, he's clever, young enough - the party could do much worse - see HYUFD'S posts. B-)

    And just shows how desperate the Tories are for another replacement of TMay if they are considering *unt. Tmay is mildly disliked for being incompetent, Hunt is vehemently hated by too many people who would be only too happy to stick knives into his back, his front or any accessible body part. If there was any chance of becoming leader of the Tories / PM then his record will be gone over, and from what is readily available now, it won't be pretty....
    It is worth remembering at this point that this is what the Tories thought about Jeremy Corbyn's record.

    I wasn't very well this summer, but I've got a general impression it didn't quite work as expected.

    The fact is that while Hunt should have gone over the BSkyB scandal, he didn't, and his record as Health Secretary is actually not bad considering the cards he was dealt by Lansley - certainly better than Gove's at Education. So he is a plausible candidate.

    A more serious objection to my mind is that May tried to replace him with Crabb last year before Crabb had to resign, which suggests she doesn't like him very much. This is a post she offered to her friends - Rudd and Green. So perhaps we should consider those she is closest to as contenders in which case we might still be looking at Williamson.
    Does May have the ability to choose her successor? I suspect not. When she finally goes there will be a new broom.
    I would agree. But name one First Secretary of State/Deputy PM who has succeeded a PM. Although he didn't hold the title, I think you have to go all the way back to Eden in 1955. So I'm not sure that's relevant.
    Or a good precedent. Eden had, though, been heir apparent for far too long. Always the bridesmaid, never the bride they used to say.
  • Meanwhile, in totally not terrorism news:
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 11,364
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    He's also been too busy with Health to wade into Brexit, which might not hurt him.....

    Additionally, Murdoch owes him a few favours for his time looking at the BSkyB deal.
    For those who have forgotten the incident:

    https://www.channel4.com/news/james-murdoch-gives-evidence-at-leveson-inquiry

    I am sure that all those appalled by police misuse of confidential data will be equally appalled at this.
    Wasn’t this looked into and it was determined that no rules had been broken? I cannot remember the details but I seem to recall - dimly - that the allegations were looked into at the time.
    He just brazenly sat them out as I recall.

    A brass neck and being friends with the Murdoch press are two further reasons to back Hunt.

    I don't rate him as Health Secretary, but he is not the worst of my professional career. That would be Patricia Hewitt, closely followed by Alan Milburn, but I do have pretty low expectations of capability in the role.

    He is disliked in the NHS for a variety of reasons. The junior doctors are obvious, bur his support of creeping privatisation is another. Mostly the steady erosion of pay and conditions affecting staff retention is driven by Treasury financial settlements, Hunt merely has to implement them.

    Interesting that your two worst are Labour.

    As a matter of interest, who would you rate as best and why?

    What would your ideal Health Secretary do?
    Surely Lansley was ‘worse’ than Milburn.
  • FPT - I expected there to be a spike in support for the UK joining the euro post referendum, as some Remainers use such polls to signal what they're all about.

    It's stirred up all the mud, and forced people into doubling-down on each side, but I expect the long-term bracket of support is in a 15-25% box, and not a 30%+ one.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 10,582
    edited December 2017

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    OchEye said:

    felix said:

    He's got the look, he's clever, young enough - the party could do much worse - see HYUFD'S posts. B-)

    And just shows how desperate the Tories are for another replacement of TMay if they are considering *unt. Tmay is mildly disliked for being incompetent, Hunt is vehemently hated by too many people who would be only too happy to stick knives into his back, his front or any accessible body part. If there was any chance of becoming leader of the Tories / PM then his record will be gone over, and from what is readily available now, it won't be pretty....
    It is worth remembering at this point that this is what the Tories thought about Jeremy Corbyn's record.

    I wasn't very well this summer, but I've got a general impression it didn't quite work as expected.

    The fact is that while Hunt should have gone over the BSkyB scandal, he didn't, and his record as Health Secretary is actually not bad considering the cards he was dealt by Lansley - certainly better than Gove's at Education. So he is a plausible candidate.

    A more serious objection to my mind is that May tried to replace him with Crabb last year before Crabb had to resign, which suggests she doesn't like him very much. This is a post she offered to her friends - Rudd and Green. So perhaps we should consider those she is closest to as contenders in which case we might still be looking at Williamson.
    Does May have the ability to choose her successor? I suspect not. When she finally goes there will be a new broom.
    I would agree. But name one First Secretary of State/Deputy PM who has succeeded a PM. Although he didn't hold the title, I think you have to go all the way back to Eden in 1955. So I'm not sure that's relevant.
    Or a good precedent. Eden had, though, been heir apparent for far too long. Always the bridesmaid, never the bride they used to say.
    When you consider the previous examples were Chamberlain and Balfour, they become even less encouraging! I think you have to go back to Disraeli to find a Tory Deputy PM who made a successful transition to overall leader - and that was a close thing prior to 1874.

    (Edited to remove Asquith, who wasn't a Tory.)
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 20,812
    Jonathan said:

    Hunt is rising too soon.

    That is indeed a risk. May will not want someone who is an obvious successor around her. It is the lack of same that has kept her secure.
  • Sandpit said:

    For an idea of what Mr Hunt has to put up with, look at the comments below this tweet.

    You've got to admire his confidence, though.

    Hunt looks and sounds a bit like a shy swot who's a bit of a playground pushover, but he's actually extremely tough and resilient.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 2,845
    I would think if May likes the idea of Hunt as leader then she will almost certainly move him in a post-Xmas reshuffle. Anyone who is health secretary needs a bit of time away to demonstrate that any opinions about them are a consequence of the role, not them as an individual.

    Ken Clarke used to be by far and away the least popular politician in the country.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 9,358
    felix said:

    He's got the look, he's clever, young enough - the party could do much worse - see HYUFD'S posts. B-)

    "He's got the look!"

    Every time I see those staring eyes I think of the last moments of Edward 11.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 11,364
    Roger said:

    felix said:

    He's got the look, he's clever, young enough - the party could do much worse - see HYUFD'S posts. B-)

    "He's got the look!"

    Every time I see those staring eyes I think of the last moments of Edward 11.
    Were you there?
  • Mr. Roger, I must remind the site that the red hot poker story is probably made up.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 15,130

    As the Founder and Chairman of Hunt4Leader campaign, I endorse this thread.

    Mee too! I just checked, I've got £28 at between 50 and 60. If his price drops under 5 I'll cash it in.
  • felixfelix Posts: 7,667
    Roger said:

    felix said:

    He's got the look, he's clever, young enough - the party could do much worse - see HYUFD'S posts. B-)

    "He's got the look!"

    Every time I see those staring eyes I think of the last moments of Edward 11.
    Wow - 3 more Edwards than i ever knew about then :)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 10,582

    Roger said:

    felix said:

    He's got the look, he's clever, young enough - the party could do much worse - see HYUFD'S posts. B-)

    "He's got the look!"

    Every time I see those staring eyes I think of the last moments of Edward 11.
    Were you there?
    An association of ideas - Berkeley and Hunt?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    He's also been too busy with Health to wade into Brexit, which might not hurt him.....

    Additionally, Murdoch owes him a few favours for his time looking at the BSkyB deal.
    For those who have forgotten the incident:

    https://www.channel4.com/news/james-murdoch-gives-evidence-at-leveson-inquiry

    I am sure that all those appalled by police misuse of confidential data will be equally appalled at this.
    Wasn’t this looked into and it was determined that no rules had been broken? I cannot remember the details but I seem to recall - dimly - that the allegations were looked into at the time.
    He just brazenly sat them out as I recall.

    A brass neck and being friends with the Murdoch press are two further reasons to back Hunt.

    I don't rate him as Health Secretary, but he is not the worst of my professional career. That would be Patricia Hewitt, closely followed by Alan Milburn, but I do have pretty low expectations of capability in the role.

    He is disliked in the NHS for a variety of reasons. The junior doctors are obvious, bur his support of creeping privatisation is another. Mostly the steady erosion of pay and conditions affecting staff retention is driven by Treasury financial settlements, Hunt merely has to implement them.

    Interesting that your two worst are Labour.

    As a matter of interest, who would you rate as best and why?

    What would your ideal Health Secretary do?
    Patricia Hewitt for the bodged MMC changes to postgraduate training. The NHS constantly needs to train and replenish staff, and those reforms have permanantly adversely affected the quality of training, feeding the staffing and retention crisis of the present. Hunt has merely put a cherry on that cake. Financial problems can be fixed, but loss of such a cadre of skilled personnel is not fixeable.

    Alan Milburn for his marketisation and target culture, which was completely against the 97 manifesto, and indirectly led to the box ticking and bureaucratic toxic NHS management culture. Reid was bad too, very much a bully who instigated the "lick up, kick down" NHS management behind a host of scandals.

    He was a Junior Minister, but Norman Lamb did excellent work on mental health and social care during the coalition. He has the right combination of compassion and competence. Of Secretary of States, I rather liked Frank Dobson. He stuck to the budget and quietly reformed some areas under strain.

    I left the Labour party in the early noughties fairly equally driven out by warmongering and health policy.

  • DavidL said:

    I've been saying this for some time. I remember being particularly impressed when he was sent to a R5 Live phone in during the 2015 election as a substitute for Cameron at pretty short notice. He handled difficult questions with the same clarity and at least superficial straightforwardness that we heard yesterday.

    He has many of Cameron's attributes as a communicator. He perhaps doesn't have the extra gears of sheer intellect that Cameron has but I can't think of anyone currently in public life that does. As a very definite Cameroon his star waned somewhat when May took the leadership and he was sidelined to a degree. His enthusiastic support for May yesterday showed how he has overcome that.

    For me, he is a class apart from any of the contenders. A remainer determined to make Brexit work, a unifier, a team player with a bit of steel as we saw when he refused to be bullied by the junior doctors, a man who has handled a very difficult brief during the longest period of restraint in health spending since the NHS was formed without it destroying the government. It's not even close.

    Cameron’s a huge fan of Hunt too which should help.
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    OchEye said:

    felix said:

    He's got the look, he's clever, young enough - the party could do much worse - see HYUFD'S posts. B-)

    And just shows how desperate the Tories are for another replacement of TMay if they are considering *unt. Tmay is mildly disliked for being incompetent, Hunt is vehemently hated by too many people who would be only too happy to stick knives into his back, his front or any accessible body part. If there was any chance of becoming leader of the Tories / PM then his record will be gone over, and from what is readily available now, it won't be pretty....
    It is worth remembering at this point that this is what the Tories thought about Jeremy Corbyn's record.

    I wasn't very well this summer, but I've got a general impression it didn't quite work as expected.

    The fact is that while Hunt should have gone over the BSkyB scandal, he didn't, and his record as Health Secretary is actually not bad considering the cards he was dealt by Lansley - certainly better than Gove's at Education. So he is a plausible candidate.

    A more serious objection to my mind is that May tried to replace him with Crabb last year before Crabb had to resign, which suggests she doesn't like him very much. This is a post she offered to her friends - Rudd and Green. So perhaps we should consider those she is closest to as contenders in which case we might still be looking at Williamson.
    Does May have the ability to choose her successor? I suspect not. When she finally goes there will be a new broom.
    I would agree. But name one First Secretary of State/Deputy PM who has succeeded a PM. Although he didn't hold the title, I think you have to go all the way back to Eden in 1955. So I'm not sure that's relevant.
    Deputy PM Attlee succeeded Churchill.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 10,582
    edited December 2017

    Of Secretary of States, I rather liked Frank Dobson. He stuck to the budget and quietly reformed some areas under strain.

    Justine Greening has been arguably the best Education Secretary since I started school.

    She's done precisely bugger all. It's blissful after the incompetence of Morgan, the intransigence of Gove and the hectoring arrogance of Balls.

    I'm gutted that she's set to be moved.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 10,582
    edited December 2017

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    OchEye said:

    felix said:

    He's got the look, he's clever, young enough - the party could do much worse - see HYUFD'S posts. B-)

    And just shows how desperate the Tories are for another replacement of TMay if they are considering *unt. Tmay is mildly disliked for being incompetent, Hunt is vehemently hated by too many people who would be only too happy to stick knives into his back, his front or any accessible body part. If there was any chance of becoming leader of the Tories / PM then his record will be gone over, and from what is readily available now, it won't be pretty....
    It is worth remembering at this point that this is what the Tories thought about Jeremy Corbyn's record.

    I wasn't very well this summer, but I've got a general impression it didn't quite work as expected.

    The fact is that while Hunt should have gone over the BSkyB scandal, he didn't, and his record as Health Secretary is actually not bad considering the cards he was dealt by Lansley - certainly better than Gove's at Education. So he is a plausible candidate.

    A more serious objection to my mind is that May tried to replace him with Crabb last year before Crabb had to resign, which suggests she doesn't like him very much. This is a post she offered to her friends - Rudd and Green. So perhaps we should consider those she is closest to as contenders in which case we might still be looking at Williamson.
    Does May have the ability to choose her successor? I suspect not. When she finally goes there will be a new broom.
    I would agree. But name one First Secretary of State/Deputy PM who has succeeded a PM. Although he didn't hold the title, I think you have to go all the way back to Eden in 1955. So I'm not sure that's relevant.
    Deputy PM Attlee succeeded Churchill.
    Wrong. Eden was Churchill's Deputy at the time of the election and had been for two months after Labour had left the government.

    Edit - it should be noted however that Anderson actually had charge of the government in Churchill's absence at Potsdam, as Eden was abroad as well.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 66,809
    edited December 2017
    MaxPB said:

    As the Founder and Chairman of Hunt4Leader campaign, I endorse this thread.

    Mee too! I just checked, I've got £28 at between 50 and 60. If his price drops under 5 I'll cash it in.
    I got £100 at 100/1 and £40 at 66/1 plus a few bits here and there.

    It would be my biggest political payout ever.
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    OchEye said:

    felix said:

    He's got the look, he's clever, young enough - the party could do much worse - see HYUFD'S posts. B-)

    And just shows how desperate the Tories are for another replacement of TMay if they are considering *unt. Tmay is mildly disliked for being incompetent, Hunt is vehemently hated by too many people who would be only too happy to stick knives into his back, his front or any accessible body part. If there was any chance of becoming leader of the Tories / PM then his record will be gone over, and from what is readily available now, it won't be pretty....
    It is worth remembering at this point that this is what the Tories thought about Jeremy Corbyn's record.

    I wasn't very well this summer, but I've got a general impression it didn't quite work as expected.

    The fact is that while Hunt should have gone over the BSkyB scandal, he didn't, and his record as Health Secretary is actually not bad considering the cards he was dealt by Lansley - certainly better than Gove's at Education. So he is a plausible candidate.

    A more serious objection to my mind is that May tried to replace him with Crabb last year before Crabb had to resign, which suggests she doesn't like him very much. This is a post she offered to her friends - Rudd and Green. So perhaps we should consider those she is closest to as contenders in which case we might still be looking at Williamson.
    Does May have the ability to choose her successor? I suspect not. When she finally goes there will be a new broom.
    I would agree. But name one First Secretary of State/Deputy PM who has succeeded a PM. Although he didn't hold the title, I think you have to go all the way back to Eden in 1955. So I'm not sure that's relevant.
    Deputy PM Attlee succeeded Churchill.
    Wrong. Eden was Churchill's Deputy at the time of the election and had been for two months after Labour had left the government.
    A minor technicality. He’d been Deputy PM for 60 out of the previous 62 months.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 8,487
    edited December 2017
    To become leader the first thing you must do is appear not to want it. Once you appear to be a threat the forces will be unleashed against you.

    Unless May plans to go soon. Hunt is breaking from the pack too early.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 10,582

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    OchEye said:

    felix said:

    He's got the look, he's clever, young enough - the party could do much worse - see HYUFD'S posts. B-)

    And just shows how desperate the Tories are for another replacement of TMay if they are considering *unt. Tmay is mildly disliked for being incompetent, Hunt is vehemently hated by too many people who would be only too happy to stick knives into his back, his front or any accessible body part. If there was any chance of becoming leader of the Tories / PM then his record will be gone over, and from what is readily available now, it won't be pretty....
    It is worth remembering at this point that this is what the Tories thought about Jeremy Corbyn's record.

    I wasn't very well this summer, but I've got a general impression it didn't quite work as expected.

    The fact is that while Hunt should have gone over the BSkyB scandal, he didn't, and his record as Health Secretary is actually not bad considering the cards he was dealt by Lansley - certainly better than Gove's at Education. So he is a plausible candidate.

    A more serious objection to my mind is that May tried to replace him with Crabb last year before Crabb had to resign, which suggests she doesn't like him very much. This is a post she offered to her friends - Rudd and Green. So perhaps we should consider those she is closest to as contenders in which case we might still be looking at Williamson.
    Does May have the ability to choose her successor? I suspect not. When she finally goes there will be a new broom.
    I would agree. But name one First Secretary of State/Deputy PM who has succeeded a PM. Although he didn't hold the title, I think you have to go all the way back to Eden in 1955. So I'm not sure that's relevant.
    Deputy PM Attlee succeeded Churchill.
    Wrong. Eden was Churchill's Deputy at the time of the election and had been for two months after Labour had left the government.
    A minor technicality. He’d been Deputy PM for 60 out of the previous 62 months.
    He was also Leader of the Opposition at the time of the election. Was that a 'minor technicality?'

    I think you're stretching this one.

    In any case 1945 is before 1955.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 15,130

    MaxPB said:

    As the Founder and Chairman of Hunt4Leader campaign, I endorse this thread.

    Mee too! I just checked, I've got £28 at between 50 and 60. If his price drops under 5 I'll cash it in.
    I got £100 at 100/1 and £40 at 66/1 plus a few bits here and there.

    It would be my biggest political payout ever.
    Which bookie allowed that stake? I must make an account with them!
  • Mr. Doethur, masterly inactivity can sometimes be a good thing. Pompey did it early on the Civil War when he should've used his weight of numbers to better effect, then stopped doing it after Dyrrachium when he could've just stayed where he was or sailed back to Italy. Daft sod.

    Mr. Jonathan, by 'breaking from the pack', do you mean by any actual behaviour or simply by looking like he might be favourite?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 20,812

    DavidL said:

    I've been saying this for some time. I remember being particularly impressed when he was sent to a R5 Live phone in during the 2015 election as a substitute for Cameron at pretty short notice. He handled difficult questions with the same clarity and at least superficial straightforwardness that we heard yesterday.

    He has many of Cameron's attributes as a communicator. He perhaps doesn't have the extra gears of sheer intellect that Cameron has but I can't think of anyone currently in public life that does. As a very definite Cameroon his star waned somewhat when May took the leadership and he was sidelined to a degree. His enthusiastic support for May yesterday showed how he has overcome that.

    For me, he is a class apart from any of the contenders. A remainer determined to make Brexit work, a unifier, a team player with a bit of steel as we saw when he refused to be bullied by the junior doctors, a man who has handled a very difficult brief during the longest period of restraint in health spending since the NHS was formed without it destroying the government. It's not even close.

    Cameron’s a huge fan of Hunt too which should help.
    He got him to sort out Lansley's mess which was no easy task. As an outsider (unlike @foxinsoxuk) I like his relentless focus on quality of outcomes.

    The comments he was actually on to talk about yesterday in respect of injuries in antenatal care were typical. He said that he signs off on 2 settlements a week for a child born with brain injuries at a cost to the NHS of several million a go. It is an absolute tragedy for the child and family of course but that is several million a week available for more midwives if that can be stopped.

    His address to EU NHS staff on his twitter feed on 13th December is also worth a look.
  • MaxPB said:

    As the Founder and Chairman of Hunt4Leader campaign, I endorse this thread.

    Mee too! I just checked, I've got £28 at between 50 and 60. If his price drops under 5 I'll cash it in.
    I got £100 at 100/1 and £40 at 66/1 plus a few bits here and there.

    It would be my biggest political payout ever.
    I have a few pounds at an extraordinary 110/1 ! A few more £s at the more mundane 46/1
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited December 2017
    Jonathan said:

    To become leader the first thing you must do is appear not to want it. Once you appear to be a threat the forces will be unleashed against you.

    Unless May plans to go soon. Hunt is breaking from the pack too early.

    Perhaps he thinks she's unlikely to survive much longer?

    Sticking his head up without sticking the knife in could be a smart strategy. It will be interesting to watch any anti-hunt briefing. Will dacre fire warning shots?
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    As the Founder and Chairman of Hunt4Leader campaign, I endorse this thread.

    Mee too! I just checked, I've got £28 at between 50 and 60. If his price drops under 5 I'll cash it in.
    I got £100 at 100/1 and £40 at 66/1 plus a few bits here and there.

    It would be my biggest political payout ever.
    Which bookie allowed that stake? I must make an account with them!
    £50 with Ladbrokes online and £50 in shop.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,540
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I've been saying this for some time. I remember being particularly impressed when he was sent to a R5 Live phone in during the 2015 election as a substitute for Cameron at pretty short notice. He handled difficult questions with the same clarity and at least superficial straightforwardness that we heard yesterday.

    He has many of Cameron's attributes as a communicator. He perhaps doesn't have the extra gears of sheer intellect that Cameron has but I can't think of anyone currently in public life that does. As a very definite Cameroon his star waned somewhat when May took the leadership and he was sidelined to a degree. His enthusiastic support for May yesterday showed how he has overcome that.

    For me, he is a class apart from any of the contenders. A remainer determined to make Brexit work, a unifier, a team player with a bit of steel as we saw when he refused to be bullied by the junior doctors, a man who has handled a very difficult brief during the longest period of restraint in health spending since the NHS was formed without it destroying the government. It's not even close.

    Cameron’s a huge fan of Hunt too which should help.
    He got him to sort out Lansley's mess which was no easy task. As an outsider (unlike @foxinsoxuk) I like his relentless focus on quality of outcomes.

    The comments he was actually on to talk about yesterday in respect of injuries in antenatal care were typical. He said that he signs off on 2 settlements a week for a child born with brain injuries at a cost to the NHS of several million a go. It is an absolute tragedy for the child and family of course but that is several million a week available for more midwives if that can be stopped.

    His address to EU NHS staff on his twitter feed on 13th December is also worth a look.
    As they say in aviation, if you think safety is expensive then look at the cost of having an accident.

    In other words, it’s much better to spend money avoiding the accident in the first place - and not just for those directly involved either.
  • DavidL said:

    I've been saying this for some time. I remember being particularly impressed when he was sent to a R5 Live phone in during the 2015 election as a substitute for Cameron at pretty short notice. He handled difficult questions with the same clarity and at least superficial straightforwardness that we heard yesterday.

    He has many of Cameron's attributes as a communicator. He perhaps doesn't have the extra gears of sheer intellect that Cameron has but I can't think of anyone currently in public life that does. As a very definite Cameroon his star waned somewhat when May took the leadership and he was sidelined to a degree. His enthusiastic support for May yesterday showed how he has overcome that.

    For me, he is a class apart from any of the contenders. A remainer determined to make Brexit work, a unifier, a team player with a bit of steel as we saw when he refused to be bullied by the junior doctors, a man who has handled a very difficult brief during the longest period of restraint in health spending since the NHS was formed without it destroying the government. It's not even close.

    Cameron’s a huge fan of Hunt too which should help.
    Hmm. I'd like to think all this will matter, as I have money on this. But, aren't we forgetting the ageing Brexiteer, JRM worshipping membership who actually decide this?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 11,416
    edited December 2017
    Anything yet about yesterday's big referendum news ?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-42441721

    A rather bigger vote for Wider-Yorkshire and on a higher turnout than I expected.

    The Sheffield City region crossing into Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire was, even by George Osborne's standards, an idiotic idea and moving the HS2 station from Meadowhall to central Sheffield is not going to please anyone elsewhere in South Yorkshire.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 9,978
    Yup. I saw Hunt speak at Conference c.2004/5 - he has charisma and looked like a leader even then.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,540
    edited December 2017

    DavidL said:

    I've been saying this for some time. I remember being particularly impressed when he was sent to a R5 Live phone in during the 2015 election as a substitute for Cameron at pretty short notice. He handled difficult questions with the same clarity and at least superficial straightforwardness that we heard yesterday.

    He has many of Cameron's attributes as a communicator. He perhaps doesn't have the extra gears of sheer intellect that Cameron has but I can't think of anyone currently in public life that does. As a very definite Cameroon his star waned somewhat when May took the leadership and he was sidelined to a degree. His enthusiastic support for May yesterday showed how he has overcome that.

    For me, he is a class apart from any of the contenders. A remainer determined to make Brexit work, a unifier, a team player with a bit of steel as we saw when he refused to be bullied by the junior doctors, a man who has handled a very difficult brief during the longest period of restraint in health spending since the NHS was formed without it destroying the government. It's not even close.

    Cameron’s a huge fan of Hunt too which should help.
    Hmm. I'd like to think all this will matter, as I have money on this. But, aren't we forgetting the ageing Brexiteer, JRM worshipping membership who actually decide this?
    If the new leader is to be PM, then even the ageing membership will want someone with a lot of experience. And they can only vote for who the MPs decide to put on the ballot.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 20,812
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Cameron’s a huge fan of Hunt too which should help.
    He got him to sort out Lansley's mess which was no easy task. As an outsider (unlike @foxinsoxuk) I like his relentless focus on quality of outcomes.

    The comments he was actually on to talk about yesterday in respect of injuries in antenatal care were typical. He said that he signs off on 2 settlements a week for a child born with brain injuries at a cost to the NHS of several million a go. It is an absolute tragedy for the child and family of course but that is several million a week available for more midwives if that can be stopped.

    His address to EU NHS staff on his twitter feed on 13th December is also worth a look.
    As they say in aviation, if you think safety is expensive then look at the cost of having an accident.

    In other words, it’s much better to spend money avoiding the accident in the first place - and not just for those directly involved either.
    Absolutely, but as he keeps pointing out it is not just money, it is the culture. He has tried hard to adopt the best American practice of learning from mistakes and near misses rather than seeking to cover them up. I liked his ready acknowledgement that a trust that had an increase in preventable deaths may actually be getting safer as they are becoming more open about their mistakes so that they can learn from them. I think this is really important stuff and a marked change from the blame culture that is so prevalent in most public (and private) sector organisations of any size.
  • Rebourne_FluffyRebourne_Fluffy Posts: 225
    edited December 2017
    Ladbrookes nae maw: Foxy Bingo here we go....
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,540
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Cameron’s a huge fan of Hunt too which should help.
    He got him to sort out Lansley's mess which was no easy task. As an outsider (unlike @foxinsoxuk) I like his relentless focus on quality of outcomes.

    The comments he was actually on to talk about yesterday in respect of injuries in antenatal care were typical. He said that he signs off on 2 settlements a week for a child born with brain injuries at a cost to the NHS of several million a go. It is an absolute tragedy for the child and family of course but that is several million a week available for more midwives if that can be stopped.

    His address to EU NHS staff on his twitter feed on 13th December is also worth a look.
    As they say in aviation, if you think safety is expensive then look at the cost of having an accident.

    In other words, it’s much better to spend money avoiding the accident in the first place - and not just for those directly involved either.
    Absolutely, but as he keeps pointing out it is not just money, it is the culture. He has tried hard to adopt the best American practice of learning from mistakes and near misses rather than seeking to cover them up. I liked his ready acknowledgement that a trust that had an increase in preventable deaths may actually be getting safer as they are becoming more open about their mistakes so that they can learn from them. I think this is really important stuff and a marked change from the blame culture that is so prevalent in most public (and private) sector organisations of any size.
    Fantastic to hear that, which of course is completely right. The important thing is that mistakes are talked about and shared widely within the industry. That needs to go for minor incidents as well as major accidents, as the latter can often be avoided if someone says something early enough in the chain of events.
  • DavidL said:

    I've been saying this for some time. I remember being particularly impressed when he was sent to a R5 Live phone in during the 2015 election as a substitute for Cameron at pretty short notice. He handled difficult questions with the same clarity and at least superficial straightforwardness that we heard yesterday.

    He has many of Cameron's attributes as a communicator. He perhaps doesn't have the extra gears of sheer intellect that Cameron has but I can't think of anyone currently in public life that does. As a very definite Cameroon his star waned somewhat when May took the leadership and he was sidelined to a degree. His enthusiastic support for May yesterday showed how he has overcome that.

    For me, he is a class apart from any of the contenders. A remainer determined to make Brexit work, a unifier, a team player with a bit of steel as we saw when he refused to be bullied by the junior doctors, a man who has handled a very difficult brief during the longest period of restraint in health spending since the NHS was formed without it destroying the government. It's not even close.

    Cameron’s a huge fan of Hunt too which should help.
    Hmm. I'd like to think all this will matter, as I have money on this. But, aren't we forgetting the ageing Brexiteer, JRM worshipping membership who actually decide this?
    The party wants to win.

    They’ll be as pragmatic as they were in 2005 and would have been in 2016 if they’d have had the final vote.

    I can’t see JRM making the final two.

    Plus his Papist views will see him the victim of ‘aggressive’ campaigning during the MP stage.

    DD has been crap, his excruciating detail reports show that Airbus make plans and fishing is based in coastal areas.

    Boris as Foreign Secretary has failed his audition.

    The recent Ipsos MORI polling shows even Tories don’t like the Govester.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 66,809
    edited December 2017
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I've been saying this for some time. I remember being particularly impressed when he was sent to a R5 Live phone in during the 2015 election as a substitute for Cameron at pretty short notice. He handled difficult questions with the same clarity and at least superficial straightforwardness that we heard yesterday.

    He has many of Cameron's attributes as a communicator. He perhaps doesn't have the extra gears of sheer intellect that Cameron has but I can't think of anyone currently in public life that does. As a very definite Cameroon his star waned somewhat when May took the leadership and he was sidelined to a degree. His enthusiastic support for May yesterday showed how he has overcome that.

    For me, he is a class apart from any of the contenders. A remainer determined to make Brexit work, a unifier, a team player with a bit of steel as we saw when he refused to be bullied by the junior doctors, a man who has handled a very difficult brief during the longest period of restraint in health spending since the NHS was formed without it destroying the government. It's not even close.

    Cameron’s a huge fan of Hunt too which should help.
    He got him to sort out Lansley's mess which was no easy task. As an outsider (unlike @foxinsoxuk) I like his relentless focus on quality of outcomes.

    The comments he was actually on to talk about yesterday in respect of injuries in antenatal care were typical. He said that he signs off on 2 settlements a week for a child born with brain injuries at a cost to the NHS of several million a go. It is an absolute tragedy for the child and family of course but that is several million a week available for more midwives if that can be stopped.

    His address to EU NHS staff on his twitter feed on 13th December is also worth a look.
    When Hunt was Shadow Disabled Minister he impressed Dave with his knowledge on the subject.

    Was very important to Dave.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I've been saying this for some time. I remember being particularly impressed when he was sent to a R5 Live phone in during the 2015 election as a substitute for Cameron at pretty short notice. He handled difficult questions with the same clarity and at least superficial straightforwardness that we heard yesterday.

    He has many of Cameron's attributes as a communicator. He perhaps doesn't have the extra gears of sheer intellect that Cameron has but I can't think of anyone currently in public life that does. As a very definite Cameroon his star waned somewhat when May took the leadership and he was sidelined to a degree. His enthusiastic support for May yesterday showed how he has overcome that.

    For me, he is a class apart from any of the contenders. A remainer determined to make Brexit work, a unifier, a team player with a bit of steel as we saw when he refused to be bullied by the junior doctors, a man who has handled a very difficult brief during the longest period of restraint in health spending since the NHS was formed without it destroying the government. It's not even close.

    Cameron’s a huge fan of Hunt too which should help.
    He got him to sort out Lansley's mess which was no easy task. As an outsider (unlike @foxinsoxuk) I like his relentless focus on quality of outcomes.

    The comments he was actually on to talk about yesterday in respect of injuries in antenatal care were typical. He said that he signs off on 2 settlements a week for a child born with brain injuries at a cost to the NHS of several million a go. It is an absolute tragedy for the child and family of course but that is several million a week available for more midwives if that can be stopped.

    His address to EU NHS staff on his twitter feed on 13th December is also worth a look.
    The overriding way to get to good outcomes is good postgraduate training. Errors by obstetricians and neonatologists are extremely expensive both financially and socially. This is how Hewitt did so much damage.

    Beware of believing some of the figures though, the devil is in the detail and the outcome measures often do not match good care. For example, over the last year I have been involved in a distant family members social care. The hospital mortality figures looked good because she was not admitted, though in a highly treatable infection induced delerium. We arranged some social care and she died in a nursing home a couple of weeks later, and I believe unnecessarily early. On the figures it looked good. Admission averted, tick. Hospital mortality rate, tick. Outcome, dead.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 37,181
    @PolhomeEditor: Immigration Minister Brandon Lewis said: “One of the most iconic things about being British is having a British passport.” He actually said that.

    @xtophercook: Certainly, when I'm abroad, people often say "oh, Britain? The one with the British passports?"
  • Hunt is being very obvious about his ambition. His Brexit conversion was magnificently transparent. But with him in charge, it's likely we would essentially leave in name only, so of all the possibles he looks the most attractive by far. I suspect that may count against him among the membership, though.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 9,978
    Pong said:

    Jonathan said:

    To become leader the first thing you must do is appear not to want it. Once you appear to be a threat the forces will be unleashed against you.

    Unless May plans to go soon. Hunt is breaking from the pack too early.

    Perhaps he thinks she's unlikely to survive much longer?

    Sticking his head up without sticking the knife in could be a smart strategy. It will be interesting to watch any anti-hunt briefing. Will dacre fire warning shots?
    However much people wish it, she is now stronger than at any point since the election.
  • Scott_P said:

    @PolhomeEditor: Immigration Minister Brandon Lewis said: “One of the most iconic things about being British is having a British passport.” He actually said that.

    @xtophercook: Certainly, when I'm abroad, people often say "oh, Britain? The one with the British passports?"

    I’m coming to the coming to the conclusion that those who get tumescent over the colour of our passports would give Freud a field day.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 9,978

    Hunt is being very obvious about his ambition. His Brexit conversion was magnificently transparent. But with him in charge, it's likely we would essentially leave in name only, so of all the possibles he looks the most attractive by far. I suspect that may count against him among the membership, though.

    Do you know many Tory members?

    I do. And Hunt has the least negatives of almost all the runners and riders.
  • Anyhoo it won’t be a proper British passport until we get rid of the French on the front of it.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,540
    Mortimer said:

    Hunt is being very obvious about his ambition. His Brexit conversion was magnificently transparent. But with him in charge, it's likely we would essentially leave in name only, so of all the possibles he looks the most attractive by far. I suspect that may count against him among the membership, though.

    Do you know many Tory members?

    I do. And Hunt has the least negatives of almost all the runners and riders.
    In a similar way to Mrs May last time around, Hunt is where he is because he’s been a very effective minister in a famously difficult department. Whether that translates into being a good PM or not is difficult to say, but against a bunch of others with huge negatives (waves at Boris) he’s definitely in with a shout - in a way that’s not reflected in his current odds.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 15,130

    Hunt is being very obvious about his ambition. His Brexit conversion was magnificently transparent. But with him in charge, it's likely we would essentially leave in name only, so of all the possibles he looks the most attractive by far. I suspect that may count against him among the membership, though.

    I doubt it, compared to the others he has a better chance of winning and he's not associated with leave or remain particularly strongly.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 37,181
    @euanmccolm: actually, i do care about the colour of passports. i want them to be anything but the colour people who care about the colour of passports want them to be.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 11,364
    calum said:
    Blue doesn’t fit with my travel colour scheme.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 20,812

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Cameron’s a huge fan of Hunt too which should help.
    He got him to sort out Lansley's mess which was no easy task. As an outsider (unlike @foxinsoxuk) I like his relentless focus on quality of outcomes.

    The comments he was actually on to talk about yesterday in respect of injuries in antenatal care were typical. He said that he signs off on 2 settlements a week for a child born with brain injuries at a cost to the NHS of several million a go. It is an absolute tragedy for the child and family of course but that is several million a week available for more midwives if that can be stopped.

    His address to EU NHS staff on his twitter feed on 13th December is also worth a look.
    The overriding way to get to good outcomes is good postgraduate training. Errors by obstetricians and neonatologists are extremely expensive both financially and socially. This is how Hewitt did so much damage.

    Beware of believing some of the figures though, the devil is in the detail and the outcome measures often do not match good care. For example, over the last year I have been involved in a distant family members social care. The hospital mortality figures looked good because she was not admitted, though in a highly treatable infection induced delerium. We arranged some social care and she died in a nursing home a couple of weeks later, and I believe unnecessarily early. On the figures it looked good. Admission averted, tick. Hospital mortality rate, tick. Outcome, dead.
    A good example. Measuring true quality in any public service is one of the most difficult managerial challenges that we face. But a culture of openness and a willingness to identify and correct errors is critical.

    The tick box, gold star approach driven by bureaucrats favoured by the likes of Milburn is absolutely the worst approach. Quality needs to be driven by those responsible for its delivery and who either have the relevant expertise or the knowledge to recognise that they don't.

    This is not just a problem for health of course. We see the same in education, the care sector, local government....It would be nice to have a leader that understood that. It is beyond the ability of one person to change of course, it is too tied up with human nature, but it is a start.
  • *raises an eyebrow*

    "I don't care about the colour of passports" say people who keep talking about the colour of passports...
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 11,364
    edited December 2017
    Scott_P said:

    @euanmccolm: actually, i do care about the colour of passports. i want them to be anything but the colour people who care about the colour of passports want them to be.

    Good thought. Although see my earlier comment!
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 37,181
    @davidallengreen: Wait till they find out what passports are used for.
  • Scott_P said:

    @PolhomeEditor: Immigration Minister Brandon Lewis said: “One of the most iconic things about being British is having a British passport.” He actually said that.

    @xtophercook: Certainly, when I'm abroad, people often say "oh, Britain? The one with the British passports?"

    I’m coming to the coming to the conclusion that those who get tumescent over the colour of our passports would give Freud a field day.
    What these fools don't understand is that at least half the population cannot remember when the passport was another colour.

    Nor can they remember when it was essential to wear a tie to the theatre.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 15,130

    DavidL said:

    I've been saying this for some time. I remember being particularly impressed when he was sent to a R5 Live phone in during the 2015 election as a substitute for Cameron at pretty short notice. He handled difficult questions with the same clarity and at least superficial straightforwardness that we heard yesterday.

    He has many of Cameron's attributes as a communicator. He perhaps doesn't have the extra gears of sheer intellect that Cameron has but I can't think of anyone currently in public life that does. As a very definite Cameroon his star waned somewhat when May took the leadership and he was sidelined to a degree. His enthusiastic support for May yesterday showed how he has overcome that.

    For me, he is a class apart from any of the contenders. A remainer determined to make Brexit work, a unifier, a team player with a bit of steel as we saw when he refused to be bullied by the junior doctors, a man who has handled a very difficult brief during the longest period of restraint in health spending since the NHS was formed without it destroying the government. It's not even close.

    Cameron’s a huge fan of Hunt too which should help.
    Hmm. I'd like to think all this will matter, as I have money on this. But, aren't we forgetting the ageing Brexiteer, JRM worshipping membership who actually decide this?
    Nah, by the time the leadership is up for grabs we'll be out of the EU. The members won't be that bothered by their leave/remain status as long as no one is foolish enough to run on rejoin, they will get a fair hearing.

    More than anything else we want to win in 2022 and keep Corbyn out, do we need someone with a realistic chance of doing that, not someone wedded to a 2016 referendum view.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,540
    edited December 2017

    *raises an eyebrow*

    "I don't care about the colour of passports" say people who keep talking about the colour of passports...

    It’s one of these weird subjects that the diehard Remainers think the diehard Leavers care about.

    As long at it still has a crown on the front, it will continue to be accepted without a visa for travel to more countries than almost any other passport.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 15,130
    Most of the commentary on blue passports seems to be coming from those who claim not to care about the colour of passports. The government should try and sell all of the remaining burgundy ones with "citizen of the EU" written on there to the die hard remainers.
  • MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    I've been saying this for some time. I remember being particularly impressed when he was sent to a R5 Live phone in during the 2015 election as a substitute for Cameron at pretty short notice. He handled difficult questions with the same clarity and at least superficial straightforwardness that we heard yesterday.

    He has many of Cameron's attributes as a communicator. He perhaps doesn't have the extra gears of sheer intellect that Cameron has but I can't think of anyone currently in public life that does. As a very definite Cameroon his star waned somewhat when May took the leadership and he was sidelined to a degree. His enthusiastic support for May yesterday showed how he has overcome that.

    For me, he is a class apart from any of the contenders. A remainer determined to make Brexit work, a unifier, a team player with a bit of steel as we saw when he refused to be bullied by the junior doctors, a man who has handled a very difficult brief during the longest period of restraint in health spending since the NHS was formed without it destroying the government. It's not even close.

    Cameron’s a huge fan of Hunt too which should help.
    Hmm. I'd like to think all this will matter, as I have money on this. But, aren't we forgetting the ageing Brexiteer, JRM worshipping membership who actually decide this?
    Nah, by the time the leadership is up for grabs we'll be out of the EU. The members won't be that bothered by their leave/remain status as long as no one is foolish enough to run on rejoin, they will get a fair hearing.

    More than anything else we want to win in 2022 and keep Corbyn out, do we need someone with a realistic chance of doing that, not someone wedded to a 2016 referendum view.
    At the moment I take the view that really only Boris has the charisma and punch to beat Corbyn, but I also take the view that who the hell knows anything anymore.
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,041
    edited December 2017
    DUP will no doubt be insisting need a bit of orange to.
  • Sandpit said:

    *raises an eyebrow*

    "I don't care about the colour of passports" say people who keep talking about the colour of passports...

    It’s one of these weird subjects that the diehard Remainers think the diehard Leavers care about.

    As long at it still has a crown on the front, it will continue to be accepted without a visa for travel to more countries than almost any other passport.
    I think its an issue diehard Remainers care about.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 9,978
    MaxPB said:

    Most of the commentary on blue passports seems to be coming from those who claim not to care about the colour of passports. The government should try and sell all of the remaining burgundy ones with "citizen of the EU" written on there to the die hard remainers.

    At a premium, of course.

    Like the old chestnut of a clever farmer who sold 'gluten free cider' at a higher price than standard cider.
  • Mortimer said:

    Hunt is being very obvious about his ambition. His Brexit conversion was magnificently transparent. But with him in charge, it's likely we would essentially leave in name only, so of all the possibles he looks the most attractive by far. I suspect that may count against him among the membership, though.

    Do you know many Tory members?

    I do. And Hunt has the least negatives of almost all the runners and riders.

    Well that is genuinely good news. For all her recent pragmatism the worry about May is that she still craves the approval of the right-wing press a little bit too much. His hilarious conversion to Brexit notwithstanding, Hunt gives the impression of understanding that the Tories face a long time out of power if they pursue much more than a symbolic, blue passports departure from the EU.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 15,130

    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    I've been saying this for some time. I remember being particularly impressed when he was sent to a R5 Live phone in during the 2015 election as a substitute for Cameron at pretty short notice. He handled difficult questions with the same clarity and at least superficial straightforwardness that we heard yesterday.

    He has many of Cameron's attributes as a communicator. He perhaps doesn't have the extra gears of sheer intellect that Cameron has but I can't think of anyone currently in public life that does. As a very definite Cameroon his star waned somewhat when May took the leadership and he was sidelined to a degree. His enthusiastic support for May yesterday showed how he has overcome that.

    For me, he is a class apart from any of the contenders. A remainer determined to make Brexit work, a unifier, a team player with a bit of steel as we saw when he refused to be bullied by the junior doctors, a man who has handled a very difficult brief during the longest period of restraint in health spending since the NHS was formed without it destroying the government. It's not even close.

    Cameron’s a huge fan of Hunt too which should help.
    Hmm. I'd like to think all this will matter, as I have money on this. But, aren't we forgetting the ageing Brexiteer, JRM worshipping membership who actually decide this?
    Nah, by the time the leadership is up for grabs we'll be out of the EU. The members won't be that bothered by their leave/remain status as long as no one is foolish enough to run on rejoin, they will get a fair hearing.

    More than anything else we want to win in 2022 and keep Corbyn out, do we need someone with a realistic chance of doing that, not someone wedded to a 2016 referendum view.
    At the moment I take the view that really only Boris has the charisma and punch to beat Corbyn, but I also take the view that who the hell knows anything anymore.
    I think by 2022 the landscape will be different. It's hard to tell whether people will still be on the Corbyn train or whether they will want a more serious character for serious times.
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