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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » This could be the start of a Stop Gavin succeeding Theresa mov

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  • Mr. G, or, indeed, festive television schedules :p
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Alistair said:

    Sean_F said:

    Alistair said:

    tyson said:

    Germaine Greer end up on the hitlist mind.

    Germaine Greer is a lying transphobe. She has a history of lying about trans people and how they think and what they've done.
    What are the lies that she has told?
    It's next to impossible to debate lies.
    People have to manage it all the time. Surely it is essential (especially as sometimes it isn't that someone is lying, just that they are very very wrong).

    Elliot said:

    Elliot said:

    John_M said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Alistair said:

    tyson said:

    Germaine Greer end up on the hitlist mind.

    Germaine Greer is a lying transphobe. She has a history of lying about trans people and how they think and what they've done.
    Well, then: spell out what lies she has said and why she is wrong. But to say that should not be allowed to express her opinion is just silly. There is not just one received opinion on transgender issue which people are allowed to have and the intolerance of those who think there should be is far more damaging than allowing a multiplicity of views and a debate.
    As a TG person, I really abhor this labelling of people who dislike us as 'transphobic'. Ms Greer has a point of view that is disagreeable to some folk, but reflects a real concern about the conflict between trans- and cis- rights.
    It was this far leftmism.
    Of course, but not limited to the left. Rightists have their mirror language to close down debate.
    It seems to be far more prevalent in Labour than any of the other parties. The worst or it on the right is on the internet, and mainly from Americans.
    Plenty on here too. Even calling them Corbynistas as a way of disparaging the legitimacy of some of their arguments.
    That would legitimately depend upon context. A descriptor is not inherently unreasonable, particularly when some may happily use the term themselves. Therefore use of the term itself, or other such terms, cannot be taken automatically to be disparaging the legitimacy of the arguments of those within that group.

    Of course, some opponents will attempt to conflate the two. As we all know Tory began as an insulting term, and there are plenty who would like it to remain so (and in some places it still will be).

    Lib Dems seem to mostly avoid such insulting terms, as far as I can recall, though unfortunately usually because they are being unreasonably dismissed from any attention at all.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,881
    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:



    The issue isn't so much the student unions deciding not to invite someone but they will prevent another student group (e.g. Tory club) inviting someone they disapprove of (e.g. by refusing use of shared facilities. That should be banned - shared facilities are shared facilities and providing it's not illegal people should be allowed to do what they want

    Absolutely what they want, within the law? You wouldn't mind if a student group invited a provocateur to come and say why he thinks British troops are murderers and we should support ISIS?

    I think I actually agree with allowing anyone to say anything legal but I've found that most people who say that's what they think actually draw the line at some opinions being expressed, even legal ones. And once you do that, you're in a quagmire. It's not clear to me that JoJo has thought it through.
    I'd imagine your specific example would fall foul if some kind of anti tertorism legislation. But yes, if what someone is saying is distasteful but legal and a university society wants to invite them to speak then they should be permitted to do so.
    Are there not two issues here? The first is that everyone has the right to say something legal, even if distasteful. But note that others are not obliged to provide them with a platform to do so.

    The second is that many universities and student societies have policies about not promoting hate / making people feel inclusive etc but then invite people to say things which appear to be completely contrary to the society's own policies. Often the problem arises when people object to such societies breaching their own policies by extending invitations to speakers/groups who do promote hate and are anything but inclusive to minorities. It is perfectly ok, it seems to me, to call student societies and universities out for their hypocrisy and failure to live up to their own publicly expressed standards.
    Where I have seen an issue reported in the past it's where a student society invites someone to speak but then the Student Union intervenes and says "you can't use the Union building" which is effectively the Union imposing its views and stifling free speech.

    Fundamentally the university level student unions should be broadly apolitical (the NUS has a much more overtly political role)
    If it’s a student union building then it’s perfectly reasonable for them to say you can’t use our building. Have your meeting somewhere else.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Any predictions for 2018?
  • Mr. JS, still think the Alonso/Bottas bets are sound. And Red Bull at 9.2 are too long for the Constructors'.
  • Judging by the comments in this twitter thread, there have been a fair few fraught Christmases again this year:

    https://twitter.com/alexowatts/status/944534837809106945
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    AndyJS said:

    Any predictions for 2018?

    It will have 365 days in it.

    Other than that, Brexit talks will be on the brink of collapse several times and poor showings in the local elections and a by-election somewhere will put pressure on May, but there will be no formal challenge as who would want to take over before Brexit is concluded. Labour will generally be ahead in the polls but not as much as government chaos indicates, and at some point there will be a reshuffle as the contradictory positions on Brexit are pushed. The LDs will not advance.
  • Mr. Meeks, a reply to a reply to that:
    https://twitter.com/MissLauraMarcus/status/945658472129024000

    As you say, fraught.

    Mine went rather well. I won at Scrabble, 2-0.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    Judging by the comments in this twitter thread, there have been a fair few fraught Christmases again this year:

    https://twitter.com/alexowatts/status/944534837809106945

    We are where we are, no point in getting upset about it. Deal with it.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    rkrkrk said:



    If it’s a student union building then it’s perfectly reasonable for them to say you can’t use our building. Have your meeting somewhere else.

    Most universities have many, many rooms suitable for small meetings -- as they are the necessary for teaching, discourse and research. They are usually empty in the evening.

    There is no reason why student societies cannot use any University room (if it is not needed in the evening).

    I really can’t see that the availability of a suitable room should ever be an issue (even if the Student Union adopt such a narrow minded view that only people they agree with are allowed to speak).
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,571
    Cyclefree said:

    Alistair said:

    tyson said:

    Germaine Greer end up on the hitlist mind.

    Germaine Greer is a lying transphobe. She has a history of lying about trans people and how they think and what they've done.
    Well, then: spell out what lies she has said and why she is wrong. But to say that should not be allowed to express her opinion is just silly. There is not just one received opinion on transgender issue which people are allowed to have and the intolerance of those who think there should be is far more damaging than allowing a multiplicity of views and a debate.
    While I'd tend to agree with you, it ought to be noted that the kind of rejectionist hostility expressed by Greer does have consequences - particularly when expressed by family members - as it leads to the notably high rates of suicide among transgender individuals.

    (And while Greer herself shows every indication of being impervious to argument, on just about any topic she expresses an opinion on, that does not mean she cannot be debated.)

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,393
    AndyJS said:

    Any predictions for 2018?

    Those of us hoping for an AV thread will be disappointed.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,673

    Mr. G, or, indeed, festive television schedules :p

    Very true MD
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    edited December 2017

    Judging by the comments in this twitter thread, there have been a fair few fraught Christmases again this year:

    https://twitter.com/alexowatts/status/944534837809106945

    Imagine going onto Twitter and attacking your own mother about a passport. What an ungrateful spoilt brat!

    Maybe his mum just wanted the right to visa free travel to Iran!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,762
    Just starting to believe that at £120m Barcelona were looking at getting a bargain. Brilliant goal (again) and now a brilliant ball for the second. Coutinho is starting to give de Bruyne and Kane a run for their money for player of the season.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,762

    DavidL said:



    Maybe we were a particularly apathetic lot but when I was at University significantly less than 1% of the student body had any interest in debating anything. We had far more interesting things to do like drink, make friends, have sex and, in desperation, study. The students who actually took an interest in who was speaking at the Union seemed positively weird and had no influence on the rest of us at all.

    I find it hard to believe things have changed that much.

    Varies with the generation, I think, and maybe who you happened to know. In the 60s/70s when I was at unis in the US/UK/Denmark (MIT/London/Copenhagen) it was intensely poliical - of course there were parties and sex and definitely study (which was seen as pretty crucial at all 3, unlike my school where nobody cared - a real culture shock), but lots of students spent maybe a third of their free time organising against the Vietnam war, for Gene McCarthy and Bobby Kennedy in the US, British and Danish left-wing counterparts in the others. My Communist activities were by no means unusual. Not much drinking that I remember, and only a bit of drugs on the fringe. I get the impression that the politics ebbed away in the late 80s and 90s and has only recently had a bit of a resurgence.
    I was late 70s early 80s and a red brick University but the interest in politics was absolutely minimal. Yet another disappointment for me, along with the lack of general education provided. I clearly went to the wrong place but I find the argument that the future is going to be dominated by snowflakes because a few self important prats at the Student Union refuse to hear what some people have to say a bit of a stretch.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,741

    rkrkrk said:



    If it’s a student union building then it’s perfectly reasonable for them to say you can’t use our building. Have your meeting somewhere else.

    Most universities have many, many rooms suitable for small meetings -- as they are the necessary for teaching, discourse and research. They are usually empty in the evening.

    There is no reason why student societies cannot use any University room (if it is not needed in the evening).

    I really can’t see that the availability of a suitable room should ever be an issue (even if the Student Union adopt such a narrow minded view that only people they agree with are allowed to speak).
    IF they are not affiliated to the guild or a university faculty, they are not permitted to use university facilities. Been there, done that.
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038
    brendan16 said:

    Judging by the comments in this twitter thread, there have been a fair few fraught Christmases again this year:

    https://twitter.com/alexowatts/status/944534837809106945

    Imagine going onto Twitter and attacking your own mother about a passport. What an ungrateful spoilt brat!

    Maybe his mum just wanted the right to visa free travel to Iran!
    Even if Verhofstadt's proposal bites the dust, I thought I read that ~25-30% of people in the UK have a parent or grandparent from elsewhere in the EU & can get an EU passport. I'm in that lucky category.

    The other ~70% of the UK are unlucky unless they have >>500,000 Euros. I heard that citizenship in certain EU countries changes hands for serious money ... Malta for one.

    Does this taking away EU citizenship from two-thirds of Brits., but not the other third, break any kind of anti-discrimination legislation?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958
    My big event this Christmas has been FINALLY completing Civilization VI on the Deity level!
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Sean_F said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:



    The issue isn't so much the student unions deciding not to invite someone but they will prevent another student group (e.g. Tory club) inviting someone they disapprove of (e.g. by refusing use of shared facilities. That should be banned - shared facilities are shared facilities and providing it's not illegal people should be allowed to do what they want

    Absolutely what they want, within the law? You wouldn't mind if a student group invited a provocateur to come and say why he thinks British troops are murderers and we should support ISIS?

    I think I actually agree with allowing anyone to say anything legal but I've found that most people who say that's what they think actually draw the line at some opinions being expressed, even legal ones. And once you do that, you're in a quagmire. It's not clear to me that JoJo has thought it through.
    I'd imagine your specific example would fall foul if some kind of anti tertorism legislation. But yes, if what someone is saying is distasteful but legal and a university society wants to invite them to speak then they should be permitted to do so.
    Are there not two issues here? The first is that everyone has the right to say something legal, even if distasteful. But note that others are not obliged to provide them with a platform to do so.

    The second is that many universities and student societies have policies about not promoting hate / making people feel inclusive etc but then invite people to say things which appear to be completely contrary to the society's own policies. Often the problem arises when people object to such societies breaching their own policies by extending invitations to speakers/groups who do promote hate and are anything but inclusive to minorities. It is perfectly ok, it seems to me, to call student societies and universities out for their hypocrisy and failure to live up to their own publicly expressed standards.
    Where I have seen an issue reported in the past it's where a student society invites someone to speak but then the Student Union intervenes and says "you can't use the Union building" which is effectively the Union imposing its views and stifling free speech.

    Fundamentally the university level student unions should be broadly apolitical (the NUS has a much more overtly political role)
    It should be fairly straightforward to hold that no society is obliged to give a platform to speakers it disagrees with, but in turn, no society should be barred from giving a platform to speakers with controversial views, if they wish to.
    The issue is the unions saying "you can have the meeting but not use our facilities".
  • Mr. Mark, only ever played Civilization II, but congrats. I take it Deity's still the hardest difficulty?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    brendan16 said:

    Judging by the comments in this twitter thread, there have been a fair few fraught Christmases again this year:

    https://twitter.com/alexowatts/status/944534837809106945

    Imagine going onto Twitter and attacking your own mother about a passport. What an ungrateful spoilt brat!

    Maybe his mum just wanted the right to visa free travel to Iran!
    Does this taking away EU citizenship from two-thirds of Brits., but not the other third, break any kind of anti-discrimination legislation?
    I'm no lawyer with a specialty in nationality law, but I find it hard to see how. EU citizenship was conferred as being part of the EU, and when we are not in it, we won't have it. Neither we nor the EU are responsible for how other countries confer their own national citizenship, which can be very generous (to the extent many Australian politicians didn't even know they had foreign citizenship!), so if some people are able to claim Irish citizenship or some other citizenship, that's something they could do others could not already, if it is one the countries where it is due to a parent or grandparent. It would just now grant even more benefits, with no noticeable drawbacks (like the Australian example did due to their laws on those with dual citizenship being elected)
  • Judging by the comments in this twitter thread, there have been a fair few fraught Christmases again this year:

    https://twitter.com/alexowatts/status/944534837809106945

    Anyone who lets affiliation to a political.organisation affect either friendships or family relationships is a fucking moron who deserves all they get
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    Mr. Mark, only ever played Civilization II

    This wasn't you was it?

    Reddit user Lycerius has been playing 'Civilization' II for 10 years, but the game's future is more apolcapytic than utopian

    In this version of 3991 AD, the ice caps have melted over 20 times as a result of nuclear strikes, 90 percent of the world's population has died, and the only three nations still standing are in the middle of a 1,700-year war. Despite military and technological advancements, the battle appears to be at a stale-mate

    https://www.theverge.com/2012/6/12/3081103/10-year-civilization-ii-game


    Any excuse for that awesome CivII story.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,762
    kle4 said:

    brendan16 said:

    Judging by the comments in this twitter thread, there have been a fair few fraught Christmases again this year:

    https://twitter.com/alexowatts/status/944534837809106945

    Imagine going onto Twitter and attacking your own mother about a passport. What an ungrateful spoilt brat!

    Maybe his mum just wanted the right to visa free travel to Iran!
    Does this taking away EU citizenship from two-thirds of Brits., but not the other third, break any kind of anti-discrimination legislation?
    I'm no lawyer with a specialty in nationality law, but I find it hard to see how. EU citizenship was conferred as being part of the EU, and when we are not in it, we won't have it. Neither we nor the EU are responsible for how other countries confer their own national citizenship, which can be very generous (to the extent many Australian politicians didn't even know they had foreign citizenship!), so if some people are able to claim Irish citizenship or some other citizenship, that's something they could do others could not already, if it is one the countries where it is due to a parent or grandparent. It would just now grant even more benefits, with no noticeable drawbacks (like the Australian example did due to their laws on those with dual citizenship being elected)
    Presumably when they are locked up in some dodgy EU country who wouldn't know a fair trial if you hit them over the head with it but with which they have dual citizenship there will be screams for our Foreign Secretary to take a personal interest.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,762

    Judging by the comments in this twitter thread, there have been a fair few fraught Christmases again this year:

    https://twitter.com/alexowatts/status/944534837809106945

    Anyone who lets affiliation to a political.organisation affect either friendships or family relationships is a fucking moron who deserves all they get
    +1
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    brendan16 said:

    Judging by the comments in this twitter thread, there have been a fair few fraught Christmases again this year:

    https://twitter.com/alexowatts/status/944534837809106945

    Imagine going onto Twitter and attacking your own mother about a passport. What an ungrateful spoilt brat!

    Maybe his mum just wanted the right to visa free travel to Iran!
    Does this taking away EU citizenship from two-thirds of Brits., but not the other third, break any kind of anti-discrimination legislation?
    I'm no lawyer with a specialty in nationality law, but I find it hard to see how. EU citizenship was conferred as being part of the EU, and when we are not in it, we won't have it. Neither we nor the EU are responsible for how other countries confer their own national citizenship, which can be very generous (to the extent many Australian politicians didn't even know they had foreign citizenship!), so if some people are able to claim Irish citizenship or some other citizenship, that's something they could do others could not already, if it is one the countries where it is due to a parent or grandparent. It would just now grant even more benefits, with no noticeable drawbacks (like the Australian example did due to their laws on those with dual citizenship being elected)
    Presumably when they are locked up in some dodgy EU country who wouldn't know a fair trial if you hit them over the head with it
    Any particular EU countries in mind?
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,881

    Judging by the comments in this twitter thread, there have been a fair few fraught Christmases again this year:

    https://twitter.com/alexowatts/status/944534837809106945

    Anyone who lets affiliation to a political.organisation affect either friendships or family relationships is a fucking moron who deserves all they get
    Presumably in this case his mother getting an Irish passport will also help him get one?
    It’s sad when families fall out - particularly over politics. It seems very childish to announce this on Twitter in particular.

    But then because it’s twitter you have to remember it could all be completely invented and should not be seen as representative of any wider trend whatsoever.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,393
    What is this 'EU citizenship'?

    Did someone pull a country called Eurostan out of a cracker yesterday?
  • Mr. Tyndall, cults are all the fashion, alas.

    Mr. kle4, ha, I've heard that before.

    And no. I tend to be more forgetful. Between Dragonwing and Elven Star (first two books in the Death Gate Cycle) I may have let 16 years or more elapse before I remember to buy the second one...
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rkrkrk said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:



    The issue isn't so much the student unions deciding not to invite someone but they will prevent another student group (e.g. Tory club) inviting someone they disapprove of (e.g. by refusing use of shared facilities. That should be banned - shared facilities are shared facilities and providing it's not illegal people should be allowed to do what they want

    Absolutely what they want, within the law? You wouldn't mind if a student group invited a provocateur to come and say why he thinks British troops are murderers and we should support ISIS?

    I think I actually agree with allowing anyone to say anything legal but I've found that most people who say that's what they think actually draw the line at some opinions being expressed, even legal ones. And once you do that, you're in a quagmire. It's not clear to me that JoJo has thought it through.
    I'd imagine your specific example would fall foul if some kind of anti tertorism legislation. But yes, if what someone is saying is distasteful but legal and a university society wants to invite them to speak then they should be permitted to do so.
    Are there not two issues here? The first is that everyone has the right to say something legal, even if distasteful. But note that others are not obliged to provide them with a platform to do so.

    The second is that many universities and student societies have policies about not promoting hate / making people feel inclusive etc but then invite people to say things which appear to be completely contrary to the society's own policies. Often the problem arises when people object to such societies breaching their own policies by extending invitations to speakers/groups who do promote hate and are anything but inclusive to minorities. It is perfectly ok, it seems to me, to call student societies and universities out for their hypocrisy and failure to live up to their own publicly expressed standards.
    Where I have seen an issue reported in the past it's where a student society invites someone to speak but then the Student Union intervenes and says "you can't use the Union building" which is effectively the Union imposing its views and stifling free speech.

    Fundamentally the university level student unions should be broadly apolitical (the NUS has a much more overtly political role)
    If it’s a student union building then it’s perfectly reasonable for them to say you can’t use our building. Have your meeting somewhere else.
    Not really if it is an authorised student body doing something legal.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    AndyJS said:

    Any predictions for 2018?

    Those of us hoping for an AV thread will be disappointed.
    Sad :(
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,762
    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    brendan16 said:

    Judging by the comments in this twitter thread, there have been a fair few fraught Christmases again this year:

    https://twitter.com/alexowatts/status/944534837809106945

    Imagine going onto Twitter and attacking your own mother about a passport. What an ungrateful spoilt brat!

    Maybe his mum just wanted the right to visa free travel to Iran!
    Does this taking away EU citizenship from two-thirds of Brits., but not the other third, break any kind of anti-discrimination legislation?
    I'm no lawyer with a specialty in nationality law, but I find it hard to see how. EU citizenship was conferred as being part of the EU, and when we are not in it, we won't have it. Neither we nor the EU are responsible for how other countries confer their own national citizenship, which can be very generous (to the extent many Australian politicians didn't even know they had foreign citizenship!), so if some people are able to claim Irish citizenship or some other citizenship, that's something they could do others could not already, if it is one the countries where it is due to a parent or grandparent. It would just now grant even more benefits, with no noticeable drawbacks (like the Australian example did due to their laws on those with dual citizenship being elected)
    Presumably when they are locked up in some dodgy EU country who wouldn't know a fair trial if you hit them over the head with it
    Any particular EU countries in mind?
    I am not an expert in every country in the EU's legal system but I certainly would not want to stand trial in Italy, Poland, Bulgaria, Hungary, Greece and Romania.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    Judging by the comments in this twitter thread, there have been a fair few fraught Christmases again this year:

    https://twitter.com/alexowatts/status/944534837809106945

    Anyone who lets affiliation to a political.organisation affect either friendships or family relationships is a fucking moron who deserves all they get
    There’s an easy solution to this. He could move to the EU.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    Mr. Tyndall, cults are all the fashion, alas.

    Mr. kle4, ha, I've heard that before.

    And no. I tend to be more forgetful. Between Dragonwing and Elven Star (first two books in the Death Gate Cycle) I may have let 16 years or more elapse before I remember to buy the second one...

    I should reread the DeathGate Cycle. Pretty barmy stuff. A moment I always remember is where a character is inspired to let go of their prejudices toward other races when they see a group of individuals from a number of races chatting and working in harmony...though it was actually a group of evil shape-shifting villains, and he didn't notice as he'd lost his glasses.

    What is this 'EU citizenship'?

    Did someone pull a country called Eurostan out of a cracker yesterday?

    Yes, sorry to tell you.
  • rkrkrk said:

    Judging by the comments in this twitter thread, there have been a fair few fraught Christmases again this year:

    https://twitter.com/alexowatts/status/944534837809106945

    Anyone who lets affiliation to a political.organisation affect either friendships or family relationships is a fucking moron who deserves all they get
    Presumably in this case his mother getting an Irish passport will also help him get one?
    It’s sad when families fall out - particularly over politics. It seems very childish to announce this on Twitter in particular.

    But then because it’s twitter you have to remember it could all be completely invented and should not be seen as representative of any wider trend whatsoever.
    It won't help him get an Irish passport (my own circumstances are similar). You can get an Irish passport if you have a grandparent who was born in Ireland, as his mother apparently had, but unless you were born to an Irish citizen you can't if you have only great-grandparents born in Ireland.

    NB neither of my parents have applied for an Irish passport, though both are eligible.
  • Mr. kle4, some very nice covers too. Not normally fussed, but a dragon's head and neck emerging from a lake of lava is pretty damned cool.

    Anyway, having wasted quite a lot of time deciding on a book to buy (with a gift card) only to discover that doesn't include postage, I must leave to veer in the general direction of productivity.

    For those interested (and not), hoping to shove up the first episode of an exciting new comic, entitled Tales of Knights and Nitwits* in the next few days.

    *Or Knights and Knitwits. Undecided.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,911
    edited December 2017

    AndyJS said:

    Any predictions for 2018?

    Those of us hoping for an AV thread will be disappointed.
    Adult Video??? :open_mouth:
  • Judging by the comments in this twitter thread, there have been a fair few fraught Christmases again this year:

    Hope you enjoyed your Brexit Sprouts yesterday :lol:
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    edited December 2017

    Mr. kle4, some very nice covers too. Not normally fussed, but a dragon's head and neck emerging from a lake of lava is pretty damned cool.

    Anyway, having wasted quite a lot of time deciding on a book to buy (with a gift card) only to discover that doesn't include postage, I must leave to veer in the general direction of productivity.

    For those interested (and not), hoping to shove up the first episode of an exciting new comic, entitled Tales of Knights and Nitwits* in the next few days.

    *Or Knights and Knitwits. Undecided.

    Stick with Knights and Nitwits. Long term the pun is not worth it. Buy people's mileage may vary.
  • ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516

    Mr. Meeks, a reply to a reply to that:
    https://twitter.com/MissLauraMarcus/status/945658472129024000

    As you say, fraught.

    Mine went rather well. I won at Scrabble, 2-0.

    These people are insane.
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038
    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    brendan16 said:

    Judging by the comments in this twitter thread, there have been a fair few fraught Christmases again this year:

    https://twitter.com/alexowatts/status/944534837809106945

    Imagine going onto Twitter and attacking your own mother about a passport. What an ungrateful spoilt brat!

    Maybe his mum just wanted the right to visa free travel to Iran!
    Does this taking away EU citizenship from two-thirds of Brits., but not the other third, break any kind of anti-discrimination legislation?
    I'm no lawyer with a specialty in nationality law, but I find it hard to see how. EU citizenship was conferred as being part of the EU, and when we are not in it, we won't have it. Neither we nor the EU are responsible for how other countries confer their own national citizenship, which can be very generous (to the extent many Australian politicians didn't even know they had foreign citizenship!), so if some people are able to claim Irish citizenship or some other citizenship, that's something they could do others could not already, if it is one the countries where it is due to a parent or grandparent. It would just now grant even more benefits, with no noticeable drawbacks (like the Australian example did due to their laws on those with dual citizenship being elected)
    Presumably when they are locked up in some dodgy EU country who wouldn't know a fair trial if you hit them over the head with it but with which they have dual citizenship there will be screams for our Foreign Secretary to take a personal interest.
    I take the point that some EU countries don't benefit from the English legal system. But it would be very hard to claim that Danish or Irish, or even French or Dutch citizens, are worse off than Brits.

    Come to think of it, the arrest warrant will probably not lapse on leaving. May seems so authoritarian that she'll want to keep it! If so, Brits. can still be arrested for committing a 'crime' in Romania, Bulgaria or Croatia which isn't an offence here.
  • ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516
    rkrkrk said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:



    The issue isn't so much the student unions deciding not to invite someone but they will prevent another student group (e.g. Tory club) inviting someone they disapprove of (e.g. by refusing use of shared facilities. That should be banned - shared facilities are shared facilities and providing it's not illegal people should be allowed to do what they want

    Absolutely what they want, within the law? You wouldn't mind if a student group invited a provocateur to come and say why he thinks British troops are murderers and we should support ISIS?

    I think I actually agree with allowing anyone to say anything legal but I've found that most people who say that's what they think actually draw the line at some opinions being expressed, even legal ones. And once you do that, you're in a quagmire. It's not clear to me that JoJo has thought it through.
    I'd imagine your specific example would fall foul if some kind of anti tertorism legislation. But yes, if what someone is saying is distasteful but legal and a university society wants to invite them to speak then they should be permitted to do so.
    Are there not two issues here? The first is that everyone has the right to say something legal, even if distasteful. But note that others are not obliged to provide them with a platform to do so.

    The second is that many universities and student societies have policies about not promoting hate / making people feel inclusive etc but then invite people to say things which appear to be completely contrary to the society's own policies. Often the problem arises when people object to such societies breaching their own policies by extending invitations to speakers/groups who do promote hate and are anything but inclusive to minorities. It is perfectly ok, it seems to me, to call student societies and universities out for their hypocrisy and failure to live up to their own publicly expressed standards.
    Where I have seen an issue reported in the past it's where a student society invites someone to speak but then the Student Union intervenes and says "you can't use the Union building" which is effectively the Union imposing its views and stifling free speech.

    Fundamentally the university level student unions should be broadly apolitical (the NUS has a much more overtly political role)
    If it’s a student union building then it’s perfectly reasonable for them to say you can’t use our building. Have your meeting somewhere else.
    The problem is that the union building is typically provided by the university for the whole student body, not the small niche that get involved in student politics to push a far left agenda.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,762

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    brendan16 said:

    Judging by the comments in this twitter thread, there have been a fair few fraught Christmases again this year:

    https://twitter.com/alexowatts/status/944534837809106945

    Imagine going onto Twitter and attacking your own mother about a passport. What an ungrateful spoilt brat!

    Maybe his mum just wanted the right to visa free travel to Iran!
    Does this taking away EU citizenship from two-thirds of Brits., but not the other third, break any kind of anti-discrimination legislation?
    I'm no lawyer with a specialty in nationality law, but I find it hard to see how. EU citizenship was conferred as being part of the EU, and when we are not in it, we won't have it. Neither we nor the EU are responsible for how other countries confer their own national citizenship, which can be very generous (to the extent many Australian politicians didn't even know they had foreign citizenship!), so if some people are able to claim Irish citizenship or some other citizenship, that's something they could do others could not already, if it is one the countries where it is due to a parent or grandparent. It would just now grant even more benefits, with no noticeable drawbacks (like the Australian example did due to their laws on those with dual citizenship being elected)
    Presumably when they are locked up in some dodgy EU country who wouldn't know a fair trial if you hit them over the head with it but with which they have dual citizenship there will be screams for our Foreign Secretary to take a personal interest.
    I take the point that some EU countries don't benefit from the English legal system. But it would be very hard to claim that Danish or Irish, or even French or Dutch citizens, are worse off than Brits.

    Come to think of it, the arrest warrant will probably not lapse on leaving. May seems so authoritarian that she'll want to keep it! If so, Brits. can still be arrested for committing a 'crime' in Romania, Bulgaria or Croatia which isn't an offence here.
    Some seem ok (and I am Scottish rather than English). I agree that we will probably keep the European Arrest Warrant. In my experience this is mainly a problem for Poles who have fallen foul of their legal system (which doesn't seem too tricky) than Brits. For a time there was a defence that their jails were so appalling that sending people there was not compliant with Article 2 but they seem to have got around that.
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478

    rkrkrk said:

    Judging by the comments in this twitter thread, there have been a fair few fraught Christmases again this year:

    https://twitter.com/alexowatts/status/944534837809106945

    Anyone who lets affiliation to a political.organisation affect either friendships or family relationships is a fucking moron who deserves all they get
    Presumably in this case his mother getting an Irish passport will also help him get one?
    It’s sad when families fall out - particularly over politics. It seems very childish to announce this on Twitter in particular.

    But then because it’s twitter you have to remember it could all be completely invented and should not be seen as representative of any wider trend whatsoever.
    It won't help him get an Irish passport (my own circumstances are similar). You can get an Irish passport if you have a grandparent who was born in Ireland, as his mother apparently had, but unless you were born to an Irish citizen you can't if you have only great-grandparents born in Ireland.

    NB neither of my parents have applied for an Irish passport, though both are eligible.
    Well, as far as I know, my Irish input goes back to 1692 when a Huguenot ancestor, a major in William's army, fought in the Battle of the Boyne and subsequently married an Irish girl. Sadly, I guess that won't make me sufficiently Irish.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958

    Mr. Mark, only ever played Civilization II, but congrats. I take it Deity's still the hardest difficulty?

    Super hard. Everyone is faster, smarter, with better access to resources. They build the Wonders ahead of you. And have stronger units way before you. A real challenge to get ahead of that lot!
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,949

    My big event this Christmas has been FINALLY completing Civilization VI on the Deity level!

    Nice! I've done Alpha Centauri on Thinker, but can't crack it on Transcend.
  • Toms said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Judging by the comments in this twitter thread, there have been a fair few fraught Christmases again this year:

    https://twitter.com/alexowatts/status/944534837809106945

    Anyone who lets affiliation to a political.organisation affect either friendships or family relationships is a fucking moron who deserves all they get
    Presumably in this case his mother getting an Irish passport will also help him get one?
    It’s sad when families fall out - particularly over politics. It seems very childish to announce this on Twitter in particular.

    But then because it’s twitter you have to remember it could all be completely invented and should not be seen as representative of any wider trend whatsoever.
    It won't help him get an Irish passport (my own circumstances are similar). You can get an Irish passport if you have a grandparent who was born in Ireland, as his mother apparently had, but unless you were born to an Irish citizen you can't if you have only great-grandparents born in Ireland.

    NB neither of my parents have applied for an Irish passport, though both are eligible.
    Well, as far as I know, my Irish input goes back to 1692 when a Huguenot ancestor, a major in William's army, fought in the Battle of the Boyne and subsequently married an Irish girl. Sadly, I guess that won't make me sufficiently Irish.
    I'm tantalisingly close in a different way. My other half was born in Northern Ireland and is entitled to an Irish passport. If he gets one, I can get one. But as of now he doesn't want one.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Toms said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Judging by the comments in this twitter thread, there have been a fair few fraught Christmases again this year:

    https://twitter.com/alexowatts/status/944534837809106945

    Anyone who lets affiliation to a political.organisation affect either friendships or family relationships is a fucking moron who deserves all they get
    Presumably in this case his mother getting an Irish passport will also help him get one?
    It’s sad when families fall out - particularly over politics. It seems very childish to announce this on Twitter in particular.

    But then because it’s twitter you have to remember it could all be completely invented and should not be seen as representative of any wider trend whatsoever.
    It won't help him get an Irish passport (my own circumstances are similar). You can get an Irish passport if you have a grandparent who was born in Ireland, as his mother apparently had, but unless you were born to an Irish citizen you can't if you have only great-grandparents born in Ireland.

    NB neither of my parents have applied for an Irish passport, though both are eligible.
    Well, as far as I know, my Irish input goes back to 1692 when a Huguenot ancestor, a major in William's army, fought in the Battle of the Boyne and subsequently married an Irish girl. Sadly, I guess that won't make me sufficiently Irish.
    I'm tantalisingly close in a different way. My other half was born in Northern Ireland and is entitled to an Irish passport. If he gets one, I can get one. But as of now he doesn't want one.
    I have an Irish grandmother and am tempted to get a passport to speed up travel times
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    Mr. Mark, only ever played Civilization II, but congrats. I take it Deity's still the hardest difficulty?

    Super hard. Everyone is faster, smarter, with better access to resources. They build the Wonders ahead of you. And have stronger units way before you. A real challenge to get ahead of that lot!
    Speaking of strategy games, have you ever tried Europa Univeesalis? I may have played a bit too much of that game... :D
  • Charles said:

    Toms said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Judging by the comments in this twitter thread, there have been a fair few fraught Christmases again this year:

    https://twitter.com/alexowatts/status/944534837809106945

    Anyone who lets affiliation to a political.organisation affect either friendships or family relationships is a fucking moron who deserves all they get
    Presumably in this case his mother getting an Irish passport will also help him get one?
    It’s sad when families fall out - particularly over politics. It seems very childish to announce this on Twitter in particular.

    But then because it’s twitter you have to remember it could all be completely invented and should not be seen as representative of any wider trend whatsoever.
    It won't help him get an Irish passport (my own circumstances are similar). You can get an Irish passport if you have a grandparent who was born in Ireland, as his mother apparently had, but unless you were born to an Irish citizen you can't if you have only great-grandparents born in Ireland.

    NB neither of my parents have applied for an Irish passport, though both are eligible.
    Well, as far as I know, my Irish input goes back to 1692 when a Huguenot ancestor, a major in William's army, fought in the Battle of the Boyne and subsequently married an Irish girl. Sadly, I guess that won't make me sufficiently Irish.
    I'm tantalisingly close in a different way. My other half was born in Northern Ireland and is entitled to an Irish passport. If he gets one, I can get one. But as of now he doesn't want one.
    I have an Irish grandmother and am tempted to get a passport to speed up travel times
    To vote to deprive others of this benefit of EU membership and to claw it back for yourself? Well...
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478

    Toms said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Judging by the comments in this twitter thread, there have been a fair few fraught Christmases again this year:

    https://twitter.com/alexowatts/status/944534837809106945

    Anyone who lets affiliation to a political.organisation affect either friendships or family relationships is a fucking moron who deserves all they get
    Presumably in this case his mother getting an Irish passport will also help him get one?
    It’s sad when families fall out - particularly over politics. It seems very childish to announce this on Twitter in particular.

    But then because it’s twitter you have to remember it could all be completely invented and should not be seen as representative of any wider trend whatsoever.
    It won't help him get an Irish passport (my own circumstances are similar). You can get an Irish passport if you have a grandparent who was born in Ireland, as his mother apparently had, but unless you were born to an Irish citizen you can't if you have only great-grandparents born in Ireland.

    NB neither of my parents have applied for an Irish passport, though both are eligible.
    Well, as far as I know, my Irish input goes back to 1692 when a Huguenot ancestor, a major in William's army, fought in the Battle of the Boyne and subsequently married an Irish girl. Sadly, I guess that won't make me sufficiently Irish.
    I'm tantalisingly close in a different way. My other half was born in Northern Ireland and is entitled to an Irish passport. If he gets one, I can get one. But as of now he doesn't want one.
    If I were you I'd work on it

    Above all it's the weak mix of Irishness I regret. The combination of French and Irish was a powerful one. It seems, as best we can tell---for the generations were numbered---their boy child lived to 106.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    Toms said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Judging by the comments in this twitter thread, there have been a fair few fraught Christmases again this year:

    https://twitter.com/alexowatts/status/944534837809106945

    Anyone who lets affiliation to a political.organisation affect either friendships or family relationships is a fucking moron who deserves all they get
    Presumably in this case his mother getting an Irish passport will also help him get one?
    It’s sad when families fall out - particularly over politics. It seems very childish to announce this on Twitter in particular.

    But then because it’s twitter you have to remember it could all be completely invented and should not be seen as representative of any wider trend whatsoever.
    It won't help him get an Irish passport (my own circumstances are similar). You can get an Irish passport if you have a grandparent who was born in Ireland, as his mother apparently had, but unless you were born to an Irish citizen you can't if you have only great-grandparents born in Ireland.

    NB neither of my parents have applied for an Irish passport, though both are eligible.
    Well, as far as I know, my Irish input goes back to 1692 when a Huguenot ancestor, a major in William's army, fought in the Battle of the Boyne and subsequently married an Irish girl. Sadly, I guess that won't make me sufficiently Irish.
    I'm tantalisingly close in a different way. My other half was born in Northern Ireland and is entitled to an Irish passport. If he gets one, I can get one. But as of now he doesn't want one.
    Mr Meeks - your other hslf getting an irish passport does not entitle you to one. However, if you are both legally married then you would be the spouse of an EU national and thus entitled to travel and reside within the EU

    If you divorce then you lose any entitlement
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited December 2017

    Charles said:

    Toms said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Judging by the comments in this twitter thread, there have been a fair few fraught Christmases again this year:

    https://twitter.com/alexowatts/status/944534837809106945

    Anyone who lets affiliation to a political.organisation affect either friendships or family relationships is a fucking moron who deserves all they get
    Presumably in this case his mother getting an Irish passport will also help him get one?
    It’s sad when families fall out - particularly over politics. It seems very childish to announce this on Twitter in particular.

    But then because it’s twitter you have to remember it could all be completely invented and should not be seen as representative of any wider trend whatsoever.
    It won't help him get an Irish passport (my own circumstances are similar). You can get an Irish passport if you have a grandparent who was born in Ireland, as his mother apparently had, but unless you were born to an Irish citizen you can't if you have only great-grandparents born in Ireland.

    NB neither of my parents have applied for an Irish passport, though both are eligible.
    Well, as far as I know, my Irish input goes back to 1692 when a Huguenot ancestor, a major in William's army, fought in the Battle of the Boyne and subsequently married an Irish girl. Sadly, I guess that won't make me sufficiently Irish.
    I'm tantalisingly close in a different way. My other half was born in Northern Ireland and is entitled to an Irish passport. If he gets one, I can get one. But as of now he doesn't want one.
    I have an Irish grandmother and am tempted to get a passport to speed up travel times
    To vote to deprive others of this benefit of EU membership and to claw it back for yourself? Well...
    As I said: tempted. But I haven't acted on it. Anyway the Irish government have been trying to give our passports back since the GFA was signed
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    I had an Irish great-grandfather, so just miss out from even the opportunity.
  • Charles said:

    Toms said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Judging by the comments in this twitter thread, there have been a fair few fraught Christmases again this year:

    https://twitter.com/alexowatts/status/944534837809106945

    Anyone who lets affiliation to a political.organisation affect either friendships or family relationships is a fucking moron who deserves all they get
    Presumably in this case his mother getting an Irish passport will also help him get one?
    It’s sad when families fall out - particularly over politics. It seems very childish to announce this on Twitter in particular.

    But then because it’s twitter you have to remember it could all be completely invented and should not be seen as representative of any wider trend whatsoever.
    It won't help him get an Irish passport (my own circumstances are similar). You can get an Irish passport if you have a grandparent who was born in Ireland, as his mother apparently had, but unless you were born to an Irish citizen you can't if you have only great-grandparents born in Ireland.

    NB neither of my parents have applied for an Irish passport, though both are eligible.
    Well, as far as I know, my Irish input goes back to 1692 when a Huguenot ancestor, a major in William's army, fought in the Battle of the Boyne and subsequently married an Irish girl. Sadly, I guess that won't make me sufficiently Irish.
    I'm tantalisingly close in a different way. My other half was born in Northern Ireland and is entitled to an Irish passport. If he gets one, I can get one. But as of now he doesn't want one.
    I have an Irish grandmother and am tempted to get a passport to speed up travel times
    To vote to deprive others of this benefit of EU membership and to claw it back for yourself? Well...
    These people are shameless, Alastair.

    There's one PBer who exhorted us all to vote Leave and then promptly fecked off to California.

    We should ostracize him.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Toms said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Judging by the comments in this twitter thread, there have been a fair few fraught Christmases again this year:

    https://twitter.com/alexowatts/status/944534837809106945

    Anyone who lets affiliation to a political.organisation affect either friendships or family relationships is a fucking moron who deserves all they get
    Presumably in this case his mother getting an Irish passport will also help him get one?
    It’s sad when families fall out - particularly over politics. It seems very childish to announce this on Twitter in particular.

    But then because it’s twitter you have to remember it could all be completely invented and should not be seen as representative of any wider trend whatsoever.
    It won't help him get an Irish passport (my own circumstances are similar). You can get an Irish passport if you have a grandparent who was born in Ireland, as his mother apparently had, but unless you were born to an Irish citizen you can't if you have only great-grandparents born in Ireland.

    NB neither of my parents have applied for an Irish passport, though both are eligible.
    Well, as far as I know, my Irish input goes back to 1692 when a Huguenot ancestor, a major in William's army, fought in the Battle of the Boyne and subsequently married an Irish girl. Sadly, I guess that won't make me sufficiently Irish.
    I'm tantalisingly close in a different way. My other half was born in Northern Ireland and is entitled to an Irish passport. If he gets one, I can get one. But as of now he doesn't want one.
    I have an Irish grandmother and am tempted to get a passport to speed up travel times
    To vote to deprive others of this benefit of EU membership and to claw it back for yourself? Well...
    As I said: tempted. But I haven't acted on it. Anyway the Irish government have been trying to give our passports back since to GFA was signed
    I too have an Ulster-born grandmother, but perfectly content that my British passport will provide any and all access I need.

    Plus, of course, it'll be blue!! :)

  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921

    Charles said:

    Toms said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Judging by the comments in this twitter thread, there have been a fair few fraught Christmases again this year:

    https://twitter.com/alexowatts/status/944534837809106945

    Anyone who lets affiliation to a political.organisation affect either friendships or family relationships is a fucking moron who deserves all they get
    Presumably in this case his mother getting an Irish passport will also help him get one?
    It’s sad when families fall out - particularly over politics. It seems very childish to announce this on Twitter in particular.

    But then because it’s twitter you have to remember it could all be completely invented and should not be seen as representative of any wider trend whatsoever.
    It won't help him get an Irish passport (my own circumstances are similar). You can get an Irish passport if you have a grandparent who was born in Ireland, as his mother apparently had, but unless you were born to an Irish citizen you can't if you have only great-grandparents born in Ireland.

    NB neither of my parents have applied for an Irish passport, though both are eligible.
    Well, as far as I know, my Irish input goes back to 1692 when a Huguenot ancestor, a major in William's army, fought in the Battle of the Boyne and subsequently married an Irish girl. Sadly, I guess that won't make me sufficiently Irish.
    I'm tantalisingly close in a different way. My other half was born in Northern Ireland and is entitled to an Irish passport. If he gets one, I can get one. But as of now he doesn't want one.
    I have an Irish grandmother and am tempted to get a passport to speed up travel times
    To vote to deprive others of this benefit of EU membership and to claw it back for yourself? Well...
    These people are shameless, Alastair.

    There's one PBer who exhorted us all to vote Leave and then promptly fecked off to California.

    We should ostracize him.
    < snort >
  • Charles said:

    Toms said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Judging by the comments in this twitter thread, there have been a fair few fraught Christmases again this year:

    https://twitter.com/alexowatts/status/944534837809106945

    Anyone who lets affiliation to a political.organisation affect either friendships or family relationships is a fucking moron who deserves all they get
    Presumably in this case his mother getting an Irish passport will also help him get one?
    It’s sad when families fall out - particularly over politics. It seems very childish to announce this on Twitter in particular.

    But then because it’s twitter you have to remember it could all be completely invented and should not be seen as representative of any wider trend whatsoever.
    It won't help him get an Irish passport (my own circumstances are similar). You can get an Irish passport if you have a grandparent who was born in Ireland, as his mother apparently had, but unless you were born to an Irish citizen you can't if you have only great-grandparents born in Ireland.

    NB neither of my parents have applied for an Irish passport, though both are eligible.
    Well, as far as I know, my Irish input goes back to 1692 when a Huguenot ancestor, a major in William's army, fought in the Battle of the Boyne and subsequently married an Irish girl. Sadly, I guess that won't make me sufficiently Irish.
    I'm tantalisingly close in a different way. My other half was born in Northern Ireland and is entitled to an Irish passport. If he gets one, I can get one. But as of now he doesn't want one.
    I have an Irish grandmother and am tempted to get a passport to speed up travel times
    To vote to deprive others of this benefit of EU membership and to claw it back for yourself? Well...
    These people are shameless, Alastair.

    There's one PBer who exhorted us all to vote Leave and then promptly fecked off to California.

    We should ostracize him.
    I'm actually sympathetic to @Charles on this: everyone will be looking to their own narrow interests and his future choice (as opposed to his past choice) will do no one any harm.
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    brendan16 said:

    Judging by the comments in this twitter thread, there have been a fair few fraught Christmases again this year:

    https://twitter.com/alexowatts/status/944534837809106945

    Imagine going onto Twitter and attacking your own mother about a passport. What an ungrateful spoilt brat!

    Maybe his mum just wanted the right to visa free travel to Iran!
    Does this taking away EU citizenship from two-thirds of Brits., but not the other third, break any kind of anti-discrimination legislation?
    I'm no lawyer with a specialty in nationality law, but I find it hard to see how. EU citizenship was conferred as being part of the EU, and when we are not in it, we won't have it. Neither we nor the EU are responsible for how other countries confer their own national citizenship, which can be very generous (to the extent many Australian politicians didn't even know they had foreign citizenship!), so if some people are able to claim Irish citizenship or some other citizenship, that's something they could do others could not already, if it is one the countries where it is due to a parent or grandparent. It would just now grant even more benefits, with no noticeable drawbacks (like the Australian example did due to their laws on those with dual citizenship being elected)
    Presumably when they are locked up in some dodgy EU country who wouldn't know a fair trial if you hit them over the head with it but with which they have dual citizenship there will be screams for our Foreign Secretary to take a personal interest.
    I take the point that some EU countries don't benefit from the English legal system. But it would be very hard to claim that Danish or Irish, or even French or Dutch citizens, are worse off than Brits.

    Come to think of it, the arrest warrant will probably not lapse on leaving. May seems so authoritarian that she'll want to keep it! If so, Brits. can still be arrested for committing a 'crime' in Romania, Bulgaria or Croatia which isn't an offence here.
    Some seem ok (and I am Scottish rather than English). I agree that we will probably keep the European Arrest Warrant. In my experience this is mainly a problem for Poles who have fallen foul of their legal system (which doesn't seem too tricky) than Brits. For a time there was a defence that their jails were so appalling that sending people there was not compliant with Article 2 but they seem to have got around that.
    Presumably the shite Polish jail defence is now redundant.

    'Conditions at Liverpool prison the worst ever inspected, says report

    https://tinyurl.com/yaqxdeeq

  • We had a family gathering this pm with remainers and leavers but when I said that the EU has expectations of an EU Olympic Team by the 2030's everyone totally rejected the idea saying it was barmy.

    I do wonder just how the UK voter will react if the reality is a federal Europe and loss of national sovereignty.

    As one of the family commented it would lead to the the dissolution of the EU
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941


    Presumably the shite Polish jail defence is now redundant.

    'Conditions at Liverpool prison the worst ever inspected, says report

    https://tinyurl.com/yaqxdeeq

    I hadn’t realised HMIP was also responsible form inspecting Polish prisons ;)
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    edited December 2017
    rkrkrk said:

    Judging by the comments in this twitter thread, there have been a fair few fraught Christmases again this year:

    https://twitter.com/alexowatts/status/944534837809106945

    Anyone who lets affiliation to a political.organisation affect either friendships or family relationships is a fucking moron who deserves all they get
    Presumably in this case his mother getting an Irish passport will also help him get one?
    It’s sad when families fall out - particularly over politics. It seems very childish to announce this on Twitter in particular.

    But then because it’s twitter you have to remember it could all be completely invented and should not be seen as representative of any wider trend whatsoever.
    If she had registered on the Irish foreign births register before his birth and claimed her citizenship rights he could have become an Irish citizen as of right via great grand parentage - yes you can even get Irish citizenship via a great grandparent! But she didn't - so now she can't pass on her Irish citizenship to him.

    Still no man that disrespects his mother like that should be allowed Irish citizenship anyway. It's out of order and the Irish equivalent of an American burning the US flag.

    http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/citizenship-greatgrandparent-born-ireland
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Mortimer said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Toms said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Judging by the comments in this twitter thread, there have been a fair few fraught Christmases again this year:

    https://twitter.com/alexowatts/status/944534837809106945

    Anyone who lets affiliation to a political.organisation affect either friendships or family relationships is a fucking moron who deserves all they get
    Presumably in this case his mother getting an Irish passport will also help him get one?
    It’s sad when families fall out - particularly over politics. It seems very childish to announce this on Twitter in particular.

    But then because it’s twitter you have to remember it could all be completely invented and should not be seen as representative of any wider trend whatsoever.
    It won't help him get an Irish passport (my own circumstances are similar). You can get an Irish passport if you have a grandparent who was born in Ireland, as his mother apparently had, but unless you were born to an Irish citizen you can't if you have only great-grandparents born in Ireland.

    NB neither of my parents have applied for an Irish passport, though both are eligible.
    Well, as far as I know, my Irish input goes back to 1692 when a Huguenot ancestor, a major in William's army, fought in the Battle of the Boyne and subsequently married an Irish girl. Sadly, I guess that won't make me sufficiently Irish.
    I'm tantalisingly close in a different way. My other half was born in Northern Ireland and is entitled to an Irish passport. If he gets one, I can get one. But as of now he doesn't want one.
    I have an Irish grandmother and am tempted to get a passport to speed up travel times
    To vote to deprive others of this benefit of EU membership and to claw it back for yourself? Well...
    As I said: tempted. But I haven't acted on it. Anyway the Irish government have been trying to give our passports back since to GFA was signed
    I too have an Ulster-born grandmother, but perfectly content that my British passport will provide any and all access I need.

    Plus, of course, it'll be blue!! :)

    I'll wait till I see how long the queues are...
  • Toms said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Judging by the comments in this twitter thread, there have been a fair few fraught Christmases again this year:

    https://twitter.com/alexowatts/status/944534837809106945

    Anyone who lets affiliation to a political.organisation affect either friendships or family relationships is a fucking moron who deserves all they get
    Presumably in this case his mother getting an Irish passport will also help him get one?
    It’s sad when families fall out - particularly over politics. It seems very childish to announce this on Twitter in particular.

    But then because it’s twitter you have to remember it could all be completely invented and should not be seen as representative of any wider trend whatsoever.
    It won't help him get an Irish passport (my own circumstances are similar). You can get an Irish passport if you have a grandparent who was born in Ireland, as his mother apparently had, but unless you were born to an Irish citizen you can't if you have only great-grandparents born in Ireland.

    NB neither of my parents have applied for an Irish passport, though both are eligible.
    Well, as far as I know, my Irish input goes back to 1692 when a Huguenot ancestor, a major in William's army, fought in the Battle of the Boyne and subsequently married an Irish girl. Sadly, I guess that won't make me sufficiently Irish.
    I'm tantalisingly close in a different way. My other half was born in Northern Ireland and is entitled to an Irish passport. If he gets one, I can get one. But as of now he doesn't want one.
    Mr Meeks - your other hslf getting an irish passport does not entitle you to one. However, if you are both legally married then you would be the spouse of an EU national and thus entitled to travel and reside within the EU

    If you divorce then you lose any entitlement
    It will be funny when the EU harmonise tax and Ireland realises it is better leaving and joining the new free trade group headed by the UK.

    It could just happen you know
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,762

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    brendan16 said:
    I'm no lawyer with a specialty in nationality law, but I find it hard to see how. EU citizenship was conferred as being part of the EU, and when we are not in it, we won't have it. Neither we nor the EU are responsible for how other countries confer their own national citizenship, which can be very generous (to the extent many Australian politicians didn't even know they had foreign citizenship!), so if some people are able to claim Irish citizenship or some other citizenship, that's something they could do others could not already, if it is one the countries where it is due to a parent or grandparent. It would just now grant even more benefits, with no noticeable drawbacks (like the Australian example did due to their laws on those with dual citizenship being elected)
    Presumably when they are locked up in some dodgy EU country who wouldn't know a fair trial if you hit them over the head with it but with which they have dual citizenship there will be screams for our Foreign Secretary to take a personal interest.
    I take the point that some EU countries don't benefit from the English legal system. But it would be very hard to claim that Danish or Irish, or even French or Dutch citizens, are worse off than Brits.

    Come to think of it, the arrest warrant will probably not lapse on leaving. May seems so authoritarian that she'll want to keep it! If so, Brits. can still be arrested for committing a 'crime' in Romania, Bulgaria or Croatia which isn't an offence here.
    Some seem ok (and I am Scottish rather than English). I agree that we will probably keep the European Arrest Warrant. In my experience this is mainly a problem for Poles who have fallen foul of their legal system (which doesn't seem too tricky) than Brits. For a time there was a defence that their jails were so appalling that sending people there was not compliant with Article 2 but they seem to have got around that.
    Presumably the shite Polish jail defence is now redundant.

    'Conditions at Liverpool prison the worst ever inspected, says report

    https://tinyurl.com/yaqxdeeq

    I don't think our Prison Inspectors get to Poland. It may give them a broader range of comparisons.
  • Charles said:

    Toms said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Judging by the comments in this twitter thread, there have been a fair few fraught Christmases again this year:

    https://twitter.com/alexowatts/status/944534837809106945

    Anyone who lets affiliation to a political.organisation affect either friendships or family relationships is a fucking moron who deserves all they get
    Presumably in this case his mother getting an Irish passport will also help him get one?
    It’s sad when families fall out - particularly over politics. It seems very childish to announce this on Twitter in particular.

    But then because it’s twitter you have to remember it could all be completely invented and should not be seen as representative of any wider trend whatsoever.
    It won't help him get an Irish passport (my own circumstances are similar). You can get an Irish passport if you have a grandparent who was born in Ireland, as his mother apparently had, but unless you were born to an Irish citizen you can't if you have only great-grandparents born in Ireland.

    NB neither of my parents have applied for an Irish passport, though both are eligible.
    Well, as far as I know, my Irish input goes back to 1692 when a Huguenot ancestor, a major in William's army, fought in the Battle of the Boyne and subsequently married an Irish girl. Sadly, I guess that won't make me sufficiently Irish.
    I'm tantalisingly close in a different way. My other half was born in Northern Ireland and is entitled to an Irish passport. If he gets one, I can get one. But as of now he doesn't want one.
    I have an Irish grandmother and am tempted to get a passport to speed up travel times
    To vote to deprive others of this benefit of EU membership and to claw it back for yourself? Well...
    These people are shameless, Alastair.

    There's one PBer who exhorted us all to vote Leave and then promptly fecked off to California.

    We should ostracize him.
    I'm actually sympathetic to @Charles on this: everyone will be looking to their own narrow interests and his future choice (as opposed to his past choice) will do no one any harm.
    You're too soft, Alastair.

    I'd intern the lot of them, on Canvey Island.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921
    Charles said:

    Mortimer said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Toms said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Judging by the comments in this twitter thread, there have been a fair few fraught Christmases again this year:

    https://twitter.com/alexowatts/status/944534837809106945

    Anyone who lets affiliation to a political.organisation affect either friendships or family relationships is a fucking moron who deserves all they get
    Presumably in this case his mother getting an Irish passport will also help him get one?
    It’s sad when families fall out - particularly over politics. It seems very childish to announce this on Twitter in particular.

    But then because it’s twitter you have to remember it could all be completely invented and should not be seen as representative of any wider trend whatsoever.
    It won't help him get an Irish passport (my own circumstances are similar). You can get an Irish passport if you have a grandparent who was born in Ireland, as his mother apparently had, but unless you were born to an Irish citizen you can't if you have only great-grandparents born in Ireland.

    NB neither of my parents have applied for an Irish passport, though both are eligible.
    Well, as far as I know, my Irish input goes back to 1692 when a Huguenot ancestor, a major in William's army, fought in the Battle of the Boyne and subsequently married an Irish girl. Sadly, I guess that won't make me sufficiently Irish.
    I'm tantalisingly close in a different way. My other half was born in Northern Ireland and is entitled to an Irish passport. If he gets one, I can get one. But as of now he doesn't want one.
    I have an Irish grandmother and am tempted to get a passport to speed up travel times
    To vote to deprive others of this benefit of EU membership and to claw it back for yourself? Well...
    As I said: tempted. But I haven't acted on it. Anyway the Irish government have been trying to give our passports back since to GFA was signed
    I too have an Ulster-born grandmother, but perfectly content that my British passport will provide any and all access I need.

    Plus, of course, it'll be blue!! :)

    I'll wait till I see how long the queues are...
    I totally understand. To be honest this bookseller doesn't have to travel outside the UK very often...

    Austria, via Switzerland, in a few days, though!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    Charles said:

    Mortimer said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Toms said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Judging by the comments in this twitter thread, there have been a fair few fraught Christmases again this year:

    https://twitter.com/alexowatts/status/944534837809106945

    Anyone who lets affiliation to a political.organisation affect either friendships or family relationships is a fucking moron who deserves all they get
    Presumably in this case his mother getting an Irish passport will also help him get one?
    It’s sad when families fall out - particularly over politics. It seems very childish to announce this on Twitter in particular.

    But then because it’s twitter you have to remember it could all be completely invented and should not be seen as representative of any wider trend whatsoever.
    It won't help him get an Irish passport (my own circumstances are similar). You can get an Irish passport if you have a grandparent who was born in Ireland, as his mother apparently had, but unless you were born to an Irish citizen you can't if you have only great-grandparents born in Ireland.

    NB neither of my parents have applied for an Irish passport, though both are eligible.
    Well, as far as I know, my Irish input goes back to 1692 when a Huguenot ancestor, a major in William's army, fought in the Battle of the Boyne and subsequently married an Irish girl. Sadly, I guess that won't make me sufficiently Irish.
    I'm tantalisingly close in a different way. My other half was born in Northern Ireland and is entitled to an Irish passport. If he gets one, I can get one. But as of now he doesn't want one.
    I have an Irish grandmother and am tempted to get a passport to speed up travel times
    To vote to deprive others of this benefit of EU membership and to claw it back for yourself? Well...
    As I said: tempted. But I haven't acted on it. Anyway the Irish government have been trying to give our passports back since to GFA was signed
    I too have an Ulster-born grandmother, but perfectly content that my British passport will provide any and all access I need.

    Plus, of course, it'll be blue!! :)

    I'll wait till I see how long the queues are...
    Surely you can get yourself a diplomatic passport? ;)
  • Charles said:

    Toms said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Judging by the comments in this twitter thread, there have been a fair few fraught Christmases again this year:

    https://twitter.com/alexowatts/status/944534837809106945

    Anyone who lets affiliation to a political.organisation affect either friendships or family relationships is a fucking moron who deserves all they get
    Presumably in this case his mother getting an Irish passport will also help him get one?
    It’s sad when families fall out - particularly over politics. It seems very childish to announce this on Twitter in particular.

    But then because it’s twitter you have to remember it could all be completely invented and should not be seen as representative of any wider trend whatsoever.
    It won't help him get an Irish passport (my own circumstances are similar). You can get an Irish passport if you have a grandparent who was born in Ireland, as his mother apparently had, but unless you were born to an Irish citizen you can't if you have only great-grandparents born in Ireland.

    NB neither of my parents have applied for an Irish passport, though both are eligible.
    Well, as far as I know, my Irish input goes back to 1692 when a Huguenot ancestor, a major in William's army, fought in the Battle of the Boyne and subsequently married an Irish girl. Sadly, I guess that won't make me sufficiently Irish.
    I'm tantalisingly close in a different way. My other half was born in Northern Ireland and is entitled to an Irish passport. If he gets one, I can get one. But as of now he doesn't want one.
    I have an Irish grandmother and am tempted to get a passport to speed up travel times
    To vote to deprive others of this benefit of EU membership and to claw it back for yourself? Well...
    These people are shameless, Alastair.

    There's one PBer who exhorted us all to vote Leave and then promptly fecked off to California.

    We should ostracize him.
    I'm actually sympathetic to @Charles on this: everyone will be looking to their own narrow interests and his future choice (as opposed to his past choice) will do no one any harm.
    You're too soft, Alastair.

    I'd intern the lot of them, on Canvey Island.
    It would be rather crowded. I suppose it could work with tower blocks.
  • So I should get an Irish wife?
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    http://www.newsweek.com/hollow-earth-conspiracy-theory-says-planet-filled-aliens-and-nazis-it-isnt-759113

    I wonder if any of the flat-earthers around the globe are also hollow-earthers?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    So I should get an Irish wife?

    Or (and?) a husband? It’s the 21st century, after all :D
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Charles said:

    Mortimer said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Toms said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Judging by the comments in this twitter thread, there have been a fair few fraught Christmases again this year:

    https://twitter.com/alexowatts/status/944534837809106945

    Anyone who lets affiliation to a political.organisation affect either friendships or family relationships is a fucking moron who deserves all they get
    Presumably in this case his mother getting an Irish passport will also help him get one?
    It’s sad when families fall out - particularly over politics. It seems very childish to announce this on Twitter in particular.

    But then because it’s twitter you have to remember it could all be completely invented and should not be seen as representative of any wider trend whatsoever.
    It won't help him get an Irish passport (my own circumstances are similar). You can get an Irish passport if you have a grandparent who was born in Ireland, as his mother apparently had, but unless you were born to an Irish citizen you can't if you have only great-grandparents born in Ireland.

    NB neither of my parents have applied for an Irish passport, though both are eligible.
    Well, as far as I know, my Irish input goes back to 1692 when a Huguenot ancestor, a major in William's army, fought in the Battle of the Boyne and subsequently married an Irish girl. Sadly, I guess that won't make me sufficiently Irish.
    I'm tantalisingly close in a different way. My other half was born in Northern Ireland and is entitled to an Irish passport. If he gets one, I can get one. But as of now he doesn't want one.
    I have an Irish grandmother and am tempted to get a passport to speed up travel times
    To vote to deprive others of this benefit of EU membership and to claw it back for yourself? Well...
    As I said: tempted. But I haven't acted on it. Anyway the Irish government have been trying to give our passports back since to GFA was signed
    I too have an Ulster-born grandmother, but perfectly content that my British passport will provide any and all access I need.

    Plus, of course, it'll be blue!! :)

    I'll wait till I see how long the queues are...
    Am I unusually British ? My nearest non British relative is my great great grandmother from Belgium.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,092

    Charles said:

    Toms said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Judging by the comments in this twitter thread, there have been a fair few fraught Christmases again this year:

    https://twitter.com/alexowatts/status/944534837809106945

    Anyone who lets affiliation to a political.organisation affect either friendships or family relationships is a fucking moron who deserves all they get
    Presumably in this case his mother getting an Irish passport will also help him get one?
    It’s sad when families fall out - particularly over politics. It seems very childish to announce this on Twitter in particular.

    But then because it’s twitter you have to remember it could all be completely invented and should not be seen as representative of any wider trend whatsoever.
    It won't help him get an Irish passport (my own circumstances are similar). You can get an Irish passport if you have a grandparent who was born in Ireland, as his mother apparently had, but unless you were born to an Irish citizen you can't if you have only great-grandparents born in Ireland.

    NB neither of my parents have applied for an Irish passport, though both are eligible.
    Well, as far as I know, my Irish input goes back to 1692 when a Huguenot ancestor, a major in William's army, fought in the Battle of the Boyne and subsequently married an Irish girl. Sadly, I guess that won't make me sufficiently Irish.
    I'm tantalisingly close in a different way. My other half was born in Northern Ireland and is entitled to an Irish passport. If he gets one, I can get one. But as of now he doesn't want one.
    I have an Irish grandmother and am tempted to get a passport to speed up travel times
    To vote to deprive others of this benefit of EU membership and to claw it back for yourself? Well...
    These people are shameless, Alastair.

    There's one PBer who exhorted us all to vote Leave and then promptly fecked off to California.

    We should ostracize him.
    He has ostracized himself.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    Charles said:

    Toms said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Judging by the comments in this twitter thread, there have been a fair few fraught Christmases again this year:

    https://twitter.com/alexowatts/status/944534837809106945

    Anyone who lets affiliation to a political.organisation affect either friendships or family relationships is a fucking moron who deserves all they get
    Presumably in this case his mother getting an Irish passport will also help him get one?
    It’s sad when families fall out - particularly over politics. It seems very childish to announce this on Twitter in particular.

    But then because it’s twitter you have to remember it could all be completely invented and should not be seen as representative of any wider trend whatsoever.
    It won't help him get an Irish passport (my own circumstances are similar). You can get an Irish passport if you have a grandparent who was born in Ireland, as his mother apparently had, but unless you were born to an Irish citizen you can't if you have only great-grandparents born in Ireland.

    NB neither of my parents have applied for an Irish passport, though both are eligible.
    Well, as far as I know, my Irish input goes back to 1692 when a Huguenot ancestor, a major in William's army, fought in the Battle of the Boyne and subsequently married an Irish girl. Sadly, I guess that won't make me sufficiently Irish.
    I'm tantalisingly close in a different way. My other half was born in Northern Ireland and is entitled to an Irish passport. If he gets one, I can get one. But as of now he doesn't want one.
    I have an Irish grandmother and am tempted to get a passport to speed up travel times
    To vote to deprive others of this benefit of EU membership and to claw it back for yourself? Well...
    These people are shameless, Alastair.

    There's one PBer who exhorted us all to vote Leave and then promptly fecked off to California.

    We should ostracize him.
    I'm actually sympathetic to @Charles on this: everyone will be looking to their own narrow interests and his future choice (as opposed to his past choice) will do no one any harm.
    You're too soft, Alastair.

    I'd intern the lot of them, on Canvey Island.
    :+1:
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080

    Charles said:

    Toms said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Judging by the comments in this twitter thread, there have been a fair few fraught Christmases again this year:

    https://twitter.com/alexowatts/status/944534837809106945

    Anyone who lets affiliation to a political.organisation affect either friendships or family relationships is a fucking moron who deserves all they get
    Presumably in this case his mother getting an Irish passport will also help him get one?
    It’s sad when families fall out - particularly over politics. It seems very childish to announce this on Twitter in particular.

    But then because it’s twitter you have to remember it could all be completely invented and should not be seen as representative of any wider trend whatsoever.
    It won't help him get an Irish passport (my own circumstances are similar). You can get an Irish passport if you have a grandparent who was born in Ireland, as his mother apparently had, but unless you were born to an Irish citizen you can't if you have only great-grandparents born in Ireland.

    NB neither of my parents have applied for an Irish passport, though both are eligible.
    Well, as far as I know, my Irish input goes back to 1692 when a Huguenot ancestor, a major in William's army, fought in the Battle of the Boyne and subsequently married an Irish girl. Sadly, I guess that won't make me sufficiently Irish.
    I'm tantalisingly close in a different way. My other half was born in Northern Ireland and is entitled to an Irish passport. If he gets one, I can get one. But as of now he doesn't want one.
    I have an Irish grandmother and am tempted to get a passport to speed up travel times
    To vote to deprive others of this benefit of EU membership and to claw it back for yourself? Well...
    These people are shameless, Alastair.

    There's one PBer who exhorted us all to vote Leave and then promptly fecked off to California.

    We should ostracize him.
    There's a whole bunch here who seem to enjoy recommending medicine, for others.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    Toms said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Judging by the comments in this twitter thread, there have been a fair few fraught Christmases again this year:

    https://twitter.com/alexowatts/status/944534837809106945

    Anyone who lets affiliation to a political.organisation affect either friendships or family relationships is a fucking moron who deserves all they get
    Presumably in this case his mother getting an Irish passport will also help him get one?
    It’s sad when families fall out - particularly over politics. It seems very childish to announce this on Twitter in particular.

    But then because it’s twitter you have to remember it could all be completely invented and should not be seen as representative of any wider trend whatsoever.
    It won't help him get an Irish passport (my own circumstances are similar). You can get an Irish passport if you have a grandparent who was born in Ireland, as his mother apparently had, but unless you were born to an Irish citizen you can't if you have only great-grandparents born in Ireland.

    NB neither of my parents have applied for an Irish passport, though both are eligible.
    Well, as far as I know, my Irish input goes back to 1692 when a Huguenot ancestor, a major in William's army, fought in the Battle of the Boyne and subsequently married an Irish girl. Sadly, I guess that won't make me sufficiently Irish.
    I'm tantalisingly close in a different way. My other half was born in Northern Ireland and is entitled to an Irish passport. If he gets one, I can get one. But as of now he doesn't want one.
    Mr Meeks - your other hslf getting an irish passport does not entitle you to one. However, if you are both legally married then you would be the spouse of an EU national and thus entitled to travel and reside within the EU

    If you divorce then you lose any entitlement
    It will be funny when the EU harmonise tax and Ireland realises it is better leaving and joining the new free trade group headed by the UK.

    It could just happen you know
    We shall see what happens.
  • Mike Huckabee needs a history lesson.

    Churchill retreated at Dunkerque.

    Also is Huckabee advocating Trump makes Hillary Clinton Vice-President?

    https://twitter.com/GovMikeHuckabee/status/945739713138315264
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    RobD said:

    So I should get an Irish wife?

    Or (and?) a husband? It’s the 21st century, after all :D
    An Irish spouse isn't enough - you need to be married for three years and have lived on the island of Ireland (including NI) for 3 out of the last five years including the entire 12 months before you make an application for citizenship. They want you to have lived there and made a contribution to Ireland by working and/or paying taxes there.

    Ireland was desperate to give citizenship away in the past - well Jack Charlton needed a decent squad - but they are tightening up. The Republic's population has spiralled by nearly a third in the last 20 years despite large scale emigration by Young Irish people.
  • RobD said:


    Presumably the shite Polish jail defence is now redundant.

    'Conditions at Liverpool prison the worst ever inspected, says report

    https://tinyurl.com/yaqxdeeq

    I hadn’t realised HMIP was also responsible form inspecting Polish prisons ;)
    'So Jan, you say you don't want to experience rats, cockroaches & raw sewage in the cells, and increased chances of suicide & self harm while being imprisoned. Well, we've got good news and bad news..'
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,787
    edited December 2017
    Edit: Beaten to it by TSE
  • RobD said:

    So I should get an Irish wife?

    Or (and?) a husband? It’s the 21st century, after all :D
    Unless they look like Una Healy, it ain't happening.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,281
    Notable move over the last week or two in the Year of next GE market - away from 2018 and towards 2022. It's now:

    2018 - 3.9
    2019 - 3.75
    2020 - 11.5
    2021 - 9.8
    2022 - 3.05
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Pulpstar said:



    Am I unusually British ? My nearest non British relative is my great great grandmother from Belgium.

    I recently did 23andme. I am 100.1% European!! My nearest non-Brit was 5 generations ago (Dutch - which the family knew about) and (according to my DNA) a Scandinavian about 7 generations ago (of which the extant family had no knowledge).
  • Toms said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Judging by the comments in this twitter thread, there have been a fair few fraught Christmases again this year:

    https://twitter.com/alexowatts/status/944534837809106945

    Anyone who lets affiliation to a political.organisation affect either friendships or family relationships is a fucking moron who deserves all they get
    Presumably in this case his mother getting an Irish passport will also help him get one?
    It’s sad when families fall out - particularly over politics. It seems very childish to announce this on Twitter in particular.

    But then because it’s twitter you have to remember it could all be completely invented and should not be seen as representative of any wider trend whatsoever.
    It won't help him get an Irish passport (my own circumstances are similar). You can get an Irish passport if you have a grandparent who was born in Ireland, as his mother apparently had, but unless you were born to an Irish citizen you can't if you have only great-grandparents born in Ireland.

    NB neither of my parents have applied for an Irish passport, though both are eligible.
    Well, as far as I know, my Irish input goes back to 1692 when a Huguenot ancestor, a major in William's army, fought in the Battle of the Boyne and subsequently married an Irish girl. Sadly, I guess that won't make me sufficiently Irish.
    I'm tantalisingly close in a different way. My other half was born in Northern Ireland and is entitled to an Irish passport. If he gets one, I can get one. But as of now he doesn't want one.
    Mr Meeks - your other hslf getting an irish passport does not entitle you to one. However, if you are both legally married then you would be the spouse of an EU national and thus entitled to travel and reside within the EU

    If you divorce then you lose any entitlement
    It will be funny when the EU harmonise tax and Ireland realises it is better leaving and joining the new free trade group headed by the UK.

    It could just happen you know
    We shall see what happens.
    With all the anger to the EU over Apple in Ireland I simply cannot see the Irish Government saying to Brussels it accepts a uniform EU tax rate and throw away it's USP while the UK takes advantage with lower rates. Something would have to give
  • Also Churchill retreated when he defected parties.

    Twice.

    He was like Mark Reckless.
  • RhubarbRhubarb Posts: 359
    MTimT said:

    http://www.newsweek.com/hollow-earth-conspiracy-theory-says-planet-filled-aliens-and-nazis-it-isnt-759113

    I wonder if any of the flat-earthers around the globe are also hollow-earthers?

    Perhaps they think we live on a giant aero bar?
  • I've completed 4 Star Wars Lego challenges in the last 36 hours.

    This is the best Christmas ever.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    :)
    Rhubarb said:

    MTimT said:

    http://www.newsweek.com/hollow-earth-conspiracy-theory-says-planet-filled-aliens-and-nazis-it-isnt-759113

    I wonder if any of the flat-earthers around the globe are also hollow-earthers?

    Perhaps they think we live on a giant aero bar?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    Also Churchill retreated when he defected parties.

    Twice.

    He was like Mark Reckless.

    The original TPD, although he had one or two redeeming moments afterwards ;)
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Toms said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Judging by the comments in this twitter thread, there have been a fair few fraught Christmases again this year:

    https://twitter.com/alexowatts/status/944534837809106945

    Anyone who lets affiliation to a political.organisation affect either friendships or family relationships is a fucking moron who deserves all they get
    Presumably in this case his mother getting an Irish passport will also help him get one?
    It’s sad when families fall out - particularly over politics. It seems very childish to announce this on Twitter in particular.

    But then because it’s twitter you have to remember it could all be completely invented and should not be seen as representative of any wider trend whatsoever.
    It won't help him get an Irish passport (my own circumstances are similar). You can get an Irish passport if you have a grandparent who was born in Ireland, as his mother apparently had, but unless you were born to an Irish citizen you can't if you have only great-grandparents born in Ireland.

    NB neither of my parents have applied for an Irish passport, though both are eligible.
    Well, as far as I know, my Irish input goes back to 1692 when a Huguenot ancestor, a major in William's army, fought in the Battle of the Boyne and subsequently married an Irish girl. Sadly, I guess that won't make me sufficiently Irish.
    I'm tantalisingly close in a different way. My other half was born in Northern Ireland and is entitled to an Irish passport. If he gets one, I can get one. But as of now he doesn't want one.
    I have an Irish grandmother and am tempted to get a passport to speed up travel times
    To vote to deprive others of this benefit of EU membership and to claw it back for yourself? Well...
    These people are shameless, Alastair.

    There's one PBer who exhorted us all to vote Leave and then promptly fecked off to California.

    We should ostracize him.
    Clip clop, clip clop, who's that coming over my bridge?
  • RobD said:

    Also Churchill retreated when he defected parties.

    Twice.

    He was like Mark Reckless.

    The original TPD, although he had one or two redeeming moments afterwards ;)
    Yup, he sank the French fleet at Mers-el-Kébir.

    We should rename London St Pancras 'Mers-el-Kébir'
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    RobD said:

    Charles said:

    Mortimer said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Toms said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Judging by the comments in this twitter thread, there have been a fair few fraught Christmases again this year:

    https://twitter.com/alexowatts/status/944534837809106945

    Anyone who lets affiliation to a political.organisation affect either friendships or family relationships is a fucking moron who deserves all they get
    Presumably in this case his mother getting an Irish passport will also help him get one?
    It’s sad when families fall out - particularly over politics. It seems very childish to announce this on Twitter in particular.

    But then because it’s twitter you have to remember it could all be completely invented and should not be seen as representative of any wider trend whatsoever.
    It won't help him get an Irish passport (my own circumstances are similar). You can get an Irish passport if you have a grandparent who was born in Ireland, as his mother apparently had, but unless you were born to an Irish citizen you can't if you have only great-grandparents born in Ireland.

    NB neither of my parents have applied for an Irish passport, though both are eligible.
    Well, as far as I know, my Irish input goes back to 1692 when a Huguenot ancestor, a major in William's army, fought in the Battle of the Boyne and subsequently married an Irish girl. Sadly, I guess that won't make me sufficiently Irish.
    I'm tantalisingly close in a different way. My other half was born in Northern Ireland and is entitled to an Irish passport. If he gets one, I can get one. But as of now he doesn't want one.
    I have an Irish grandmother and am tempted to get a passport to speed up travel times
    To vote to deprive others of this benefit of EU membership and to claw it back for yourself? Well...
    As I said: tempted. But I haven't acted on it. Anyway the Irish government have been trying to give our passports back since to GFA was signed
    I too have an Ulster-born grandmother, but perfectly content that my British passport will provide any and all access I need.

    Plus, of course, it'll be blue!! :)

    I'll wait till I see how long the queues are...
    Surely you can get yourself a diplomatic passport? ;)
    Undiplomatic more like!
  • Yes, he really did make this comparison:

    https://twitter.com/govmikehuckabee/status/945739713138315264
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    RobD said:

    Also Churchill retreated when he defected parties.

    Twice.

    He was like Mark Reckless.

    The original TPD, although he had one or two redeeming moments afterwards ;)
    Yup, he sank the French fleet at Mers-el-Kébir.

    We should rename London St Pancras 'Mers-el-Kébir'
    We should rename all the London termini similarly. ;)
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Pulpstar said:

    Charles said:

    Mortimer said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Toms said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Judging by the comments in this twitter thread, there have been a fair few fraught Christmases again this year:

    https://twitter.com/alexowatts/status/944534837809106945

    fucking moron who deserves all they get
    Presumably in this case his mother getting an Irish passport will also help him get one?
    It’s sad when families fall out - particularly over politics. It seems very childish to announce this on Twitter in particular.

    But then because it’s twitter you have to remember it could all be completely invented and should not be seen as representative of any wider trend whatsoever.
    It won't help him get an Irish passport (my own circumstances are similar). You can get an Irish passport if you have a grandparent who was born in Ireland, as his mother apparently had, but unless you were born to an Irish citizen you can't if you have only great-grandparents born in Ireland.

    NB neither of my parents have applied for an Irish passport, though both are eligible.
    Well, as far as I know, my Irish input goes back to 1692 when a Huguenot ancestor, a major in William's army, fought in the Battle of the Boyne and subsequently married an Irish girl. Sadly, I guess that won't make me sufficiently Irish.
    I'm tantalisingly close in a different way. My other half was born in Northern Ireland and is entitled to an Irish passport. If he gets one, I can get one. But as of now he doesn't want one.
    I have an Irish grandmother and am tempted to get a passport to speed up travel times
    To vote to deprive others of this benefit of EU membership and to claw it back for yourself? Well...
    As I said: tempted. But I haven't acted on it. Anyway the Irish government have been trying to give our passports back since to GFA was signed
    I too have an Ulster-born grandmother, but perfectly content that my British passport will provide any and all access I need.

    Plus, of course, it'll be blue!! :)

    I'll wait till I see how long the queues are...
    Am I unusually British ? My nearest non British relative is my great great grandmother from Belgium.
    No - I'm very cosmopolitan

    1/8 American, 1/4 Irish, 1/4 Welsh 1/4 Scottish and 1/8 English with assorted cousins in New Zealand, South Africa, Gibraltar, France and Belgium
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038
    Pulpstar said:

    Charles said:

    Mortimer said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Toms said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Judging by the comments .... [text deleted] https://twitter.com/alexowatts/status/944534837809106945

    Presumably in this case his mother getting an Irish passport will also help him get one?
    It’s sad when families fall out - particularly over politics. It seems very childish to announce this on Twitter in particular.

    But then because it’s twitter you have to remember it could all be completely invented and should not be seen as representative of any wider trend whatsoever.
    It won't help him get an Irish passport (my own circumstances are similar). You can get an Irish passport if you have a grandparent who was born in Ireland, as his mother apparently had, but unless you were born to an Irish citizen you can't if you have only great-grandparents born in Ireland.

    NB neither of my parents have applied for an Irish passport, though both are eligible.
    Well, as far as I know, my Irish input goes back to 1692 when a Huguenot ancestor, a major in William's army, fought in the Battle of the Boyne and subsequently married an Irish girl. Sadly, I guess that won't make me sufficiently Irish.
    I'm tantalisingly close in a different way. My other half was born in Northern Ireland and is entitled to an Irish passport. If he gets one, I can get one. But as of now he doesn't want one.
    I have an Irish grandmother and am tempted to get a passport to speed up travel times
    To vote to deprive others of this benefit of EU membership and to claw it back for yourself? Well...
    As I said: tempted. But I haven't acted on it. Anyway the Irish government have been trying to give our passports back since to GFA was signed
    I too have an Ulster-born grandmother, but perfectly content that my British passport will provide any and all access I need.

    Plus, of course, it'll be blue!! :)

    I'll wait till I see how long the queues are...
    Am I unusually British ? My nearest non British relative is my great great grandmother from Belgium.
    You might be average. We're mostly mongrels!

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/expatfeedback/4201967/So-you-think-youre-English.html
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,741
    edited December 2017
    Elliot said:

    rkrkrk said:



    If it’s a student union building then it’s perfectly reasonable for them to say you can’t use our building. Have your meeting somewhere else.

    The problem is that the union building is typically provided by the university for the whole student body, not the small niche that get involved in student politics to push a far left agenda.
    Again, with respect, you are both completely missing the point (as is Johnson). The University provides facilities for the guild, which every student is compelled to be a member of. All student bodies must be recognised by the guild - we had endless trouble with a research group we set up until the Head of History obligingly adopted us. If they are not recognised then they are not permitted to use the facilities of the guild or he University and technically shouldn't meet at all. This gives de facto veto over the types of groups allowed and what they can do.

    A particularly insane example is when a Christian group at Aberystwyth were forced to disband because they said any non-Christian members would be encouraged to convert to Christianity against union policy which said any group must be open to all religions. Now as it happens, that group were a bunch of homophobic bastards whom I would not willingly have been seen dead or alive with. But the union, which was controlled by a bunch of Fascist thugs, was out to get them for their religious views, which were perfectly legal and indeed were the majority religion in this country - and came up with that excuse. Do I disapprove of proselytism? Yes, as it happens. Do I see a difference between an avowedly Christian group expecting its be Christian or at least interested in Christianity and the Choral Union (of which I was a member) holding auditions to make sure it only got half-decent singers? No, I can't say I do. I can see however a thoroughly vicious religious agenda behind it. Not the least reason for my anger was that I found myself on the side of the homophobic bastards because they were clearly right and the guild was clearly wrong.

    I quit the Guild in disgust and told the sports officer exactly what I thought of them, to his face and to his shock. If I tell you he was 5ft 6, weighed 212 lb and was appointed because he had self-esteem issues over his weight, you will see the problem.

    It's the power of the guilds needs breaking. Everyone here is looking at symptoms and ignoring the root cause. Weakening the NUS, who are considerably worse - the only reason that they are not the worst union in education is that the UCU set the bar extraordinarily high - would also help.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Mike Huckabee needs a history lesson.

    Churchill retreated at Dunkerque.

    Also is Huckabee advocating Trump makes Hillary Clinton Vice-President?

    https://twitter.com/GovMikeHuckabee/status/945739713138315264

    That was a tactical withdrawal not a retreat!

    The March on Corunna was a retreat

    http://www.poetrybyheart.org.uk/poems/the-burial-of-sir-john-moore-after-corunna/
This discussion has been closed.