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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The big one: Cyclefree announces her Political Awards for 2017

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  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    Yorkcity said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/dec/27/campaign-launched-return-east-coast-rail-public-ownership Private Sector bail out on East Coast line yet again..No wonder many people think it should be returned to public ownership.

    Is an early termination a bailout? Won't the premiums simply be paid by whoever picks up the contract next?
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,201
    edited December 2017



    But has she considered to points highlighted above?

    Yes the authors have considered those points.

    Unless you are doubting the veracity of people who work for a university.
    Where does it say that? She just asserts the corridor is busiest in Europe. Once again:

    However, this is difficult to verify because:

    No authoritative comparison is available.
    The bus frequency on Wilmslow Road varies at different points. This will be true of other corridors and hence the busiest corridor is likely to depend on how short a road can be considered.
    Bus frequencies vary over the day so the busiest corridor may depend on whether the peak frequency or average frequency is taken.
    No qualifier is given as to what constitutes 'busy' - whether frequency of buses or total passengers carried and when.
    They conducted studies.

    As I said originally, contact them for further details.
    Where does it say they conducted studies?

    She just asserts the fact:
    The people who live, work and travel along Europe's busiest bus route are telling their stories through a new project which will document life on Manchester’s Oxford Road Corridor.
  • Options
    rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    One of the things

    It is therefore doubly disappointing to see the likes of Jared O'Mara treating his voters with utter contempt, or Emma Dent Coad speaking more or less only outside the Commons and having a poor attendance record despite living so close by, or Laura Pidcock deciding to miss a crucial vote on a welfare matter she claimed was close to her heart because it was her thirtieth birthday and she and her boyfriend decided to go to Italy for a week. (I worked right through my thirtieth birthday and for several weeks afterwards for literally a fraction of her pay. So do most people in low paid jobs. Her excuse was ridiculous and she shouldn't even have bothered to give it because she merely looked even smugger than usual.)

    One reason why I expect Corbynism to burn out post-Corbyn is because even allowing for his faults the next generation of lefties are truly pathetic and not worth the effort of voting for (OK, I know Coad is old but O'Mara, Pidcock, Smith, Long-Bailey - they are young). Not, it should be said, that the other parties are better.

    I think what we are seeing is in part the consequences of a surprise election, meaning rushed selections, but also a widening of the candidates. In recent years we have got very used to polished SPADS groomed into safe seats by the two main parties. Those days are over in Labour, and to a degree in the Tories too. We see in the three that you cite an injection of unpolished fresh blood into the body politic. This was something that had been called for for years, and when it appeared, we should not be surprised that they are not what we are used to.
    Dent Coad is an experienced local politician. Don't know enough about the others to comment.

    I would have said however that such people should be more, not less, committed to politics. Skinner was hardly a SPAD when he was elected.
    I think they are committed to politics, maybe not O'Mara!, but do not see it just as a Westminster club. Extraparliamentary campaigns as a way to put pressure on governments have been the way forward in recent years, whether Brexit, anti war or gay marriage. Street level activism is the permanent campaign that Corbyn relishes.
    At least O'Mara's had a job where he must deal with cash flow, VAT, etc. Highly unusual for Labour MPs who appear to have zero knowledge of SMEs and the self-employed. Have any other Labour MPs ever seen a VAT return?!

    I'd say give him a chance but 6 months ought to be time for progress ... and a maiden speech!

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/24/jared-omara-refuses-resign-sexist-comments-suggests-conservatives/
  • Options



    But has she considered to points highlighted above?

    Yes the authors have considered those points.

    Unless you are doubting the veracity of people who work for a university.
    Where does it say that? She just asserts the corridor is busiest in Europe. Once again:

    However, this is difficult to verify because:

    No authoritative comparison is available.
    The bus frequency on Wilmslow Road varies at different points. This will be true of other corridors and hence the busiest corridor is likely to depend on how short a road can be considered.
    Bus frequencies vary over the day so the busiest corridor may depend on whether the peak frequency or average frequency is taken.
    No qualifier is given as to what constitutes 'busy' - whether frequency of buses or total passengers carried and when.
    They conducted studies.

    As I said originally, contact them for further details.
    Where does it say they conducted studies?

    She just asserts the fact: The people who live, work and travel along Europe's busiest bus route are telling their stories through a new project which will document life on Manchester’s Oxford Road Corridor.
    Because they did interviews in the local media at the time stating they did carry out studies to make those assertions.
  • Options
    Rexel56Rexel56 Posts: 807

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Farage and Godfrey Bloom confirming UKIP are the BNP in blazers is really troubling.

    Time to proscribe UKIP like we do with Combat 18,

    Don't you like political parties that disagree with you?

    UKIP is deeply unpleasant, as is the BNP, but neither should be proscribed. Combat 18's leadership have been directly implicated in violence and, in some cases, murder.
    he'll be banning buses next
    No.

    Buses are useful for identifying failures in life.

    Cf Mrs Thatcher’s reputed comments on bus users. Even if she didn’t say it, the sentiment was right.
    I happily take a bus when it is the most convenient and cost effective mode of transport
    On a sunny day - taking a double decker bus in London - especially if you can sit at the front with a panaramic glass front is a lovely way to travel.
    Not so easy in the rest of the country where they are scarcer than hens teeth, as ever the majority suffer to subsidise plenty in London.
    I see them all the time in my town ;)
    I work in a Northern City which is said to be Europe’s busiest bus corridor.
    Was a student in the late 70’s at Sheffield Poly when it was located squarely in the Socialist Republic of South Yorkshire (Nuclear Free Zone). Any bus journey was 2p, even from grimy Pitsmoor in the north where I lived to the leafy suburbs of Totley where we had lectures on a Wednesday afternoon...
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172



    But has she considered to points highlighted above?

    Yes the authors have considered those points.

    Unless you are doubting the veracity of people who work for a university.
    Where does it say that? She just asserts the corridor is busiest in Europe. Once again:

    However, this is difficult to verify because:

    No authoritative comparison is available.
    The bus frequency on Wilmslow Road varies at different points. This will be true of other corridors and hence the busiest corridor is likely to depend on how short a road can be considered.
    Bus frequencies vary over the day so the busiest corridor may depend on whether the peak frequency or average frequency is taken.
    No qualifier is given as to what constitutes 'busy' - whether frequency of buses or total passengers carried and when.
    They conducted studies.

    As I said originally, contact them for further details.
    Where does it say they conducted studies?

    She just asserts the fact: The people who live, work and travel along Europe's busiest bus route are telling their stories through a new project which will document life on Manchester’s Oxford Road Corridor.
    Because they did interviews in the local media at the time stating they did carry out studies to make those assertions.
    Then, please post a link to the studies.

    Not a link to puff pieces and secondhand media reports.
  • Options
    Yorkcity said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/dec/27/campaign-launched-return-east-coast-rail-public-ownership Private Sector bail out on East Coast line yet again..No wonder many people think it should be returned to public ownership.

    It's fake news though, isn't it? There is no 'bail out'. The Treasury won't be getting what it would have been but it's still not paying the operators. It's a politically motivated campaign that not only has little to do with the facts but openly eschews them.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,789
    DavidL said:


    I would be more interested in a politician who thought that an army of 80k doesn't require more than 1 general and that a Navy of about 17 ships probably doesn't require an admiral at all. There is so much to do in focussing the limited resources of the forces to the sharp end. Maybe if the focus was on that and the squaddies got decent pay and housing along with the admittedly excellent training they currently get recruitment would be less of an issue.


    1 general might have difficulty managing 80,000. It's hard to see why more than about 20 people of Brigadier rank and upwards would be needed, though.
  • Options
    Rexel56 said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Farage and Godfrey Bloom confirming UKIP are the BNP in blazers is really troubling.

    Time to proscribe UKIP like we do with Combat 18,

    Don't you like political parties that disagree with you?

    UKIP is deeply unpleasant, as is the BNP, but neither should be proscribed. Combat 18's leadership have been directly implicated in violence and, in some cases, murder.
    he'll be banning buses next
    No.

    Buses are useful for identifying failures in life.

    Cf Mrs Thatcher’s reputed comments on bus users. Even if she didn’t say it, the sentiment was right.
    I happily take a bus when it is the most convenient and cost effective mode of transport
    On a sunny day - taking a double decker bus in London - especially if you can sit at the front with a panaramic glass front is a lovely way to travel.
    Not so easy in the rest of the country where they are scarcer than hens teeth, as ever the majority suffer to subsidise plenty in London.
    I see them all the time in my town ;)
    I work in a Northern City which is said to be Europe’s busiest bus corridor.
    Was a student in the late 70’s at Sheffield Poly when it was located squarely in the Socialist Republic of South Yorkshire (Nuclear Free Zone). Any bus journey was 2p, even from grimy Pitsmoor in the north where I lived to the leafy suburbs of Totley where we had lectures on a Wednesday afternoon...
    All subsidised by ratepayers.
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981



    But has she considered to points highlighted above?

    Yes the authors have considered those points.

    Unless you are doubting the veracity of people who work for a university.
    I work for a university, and I am telling you that Die Hard is a Christmas movie. So there.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    Ishmael_Z said:



    But has she considered to points highlighted above?

    Yes the authors have considered those points.

    Unless you are doubting the veracity of people who work for a university.
    I work for a university, and I am telling you that Die Hard is a Christmas movie. So there.
    I have also conducted a study into the matter and have concluded it is indeed a Christmas movie. ;)
  • Options
    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:


    I would be more interested in a politician who thought that an army of 80k doesn't require more than 1 general and that a Navy of about 17 ships probably doesn't require an admiral at all. There is so much to do in focussing the limited resources of the forces to the sharp end. Maybe if the focus was on that and the squaddies got decent pay and housing along with the admittedly excellent training they currently get recruitment would be less of an issue.


    1 general might have difficulty managing 80,000. It's hard to see why more than about 20 people of Brigadier rank and upwards would be needed, though.
    As opposed to the 200 we currently have.
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    RobD said:

    Ishmael_Z said:



    But has she considered to points highlighted above?

    Yes the authors have considered those points.

    Unless you are doubting the veracity of people who work for a university.
    I work for a university, and I am telling you that Die Hard is a Christmas movie. So there.
    I have also conducted a study into the matter and have concluded it is indeed a Christmas movie. ;)
    And I'm about to put a preprint on arXiv of a conclusive proof that pineapple is the best pizza topping EVAH. It is a marvellous proof, but too long to post in this forum.
  • Options
    Rexel56Rexel56 Posts: 807

    Rexel56 said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Farage and Godfrey Bloom confirming UKIP are the BNP in blazers is really troubling.

    Time to proscribe UKIP like we do with Combat 18,

    Don't you like political parties that disagree with you?

    UKIP is deeply unpleasant, as is the BNP, but neither should be proscribed. Combat 18's leadership have been directly implicated in violence and, in some cases, murder.
    he'll be banning buses next
    No.

    Buses are useful for identifying failures in life.

    Cf Mrs Thatcher’s reputed comments on bus users. Even if she didn’t say it, the sentiment was right.
    I happily take a bus when it is the most convenient and cost effective mode of transport
    On a sunny day - taking a double decker bus in London - especially if you can sit at the front with a panaramic glass front is a lovely way to travel.
    Not so easy in the rest of the country where they are scarcer than hens teeth, as ever the majority suffer to subsidise plenty in London.
    I see them all the time in my town ;)
    I work in a Northern City which is said to be Europe’s busiest bus corridor.
    Was a student in the late 70’s at Sheffield Poly when it was located squarely in the Socialist Republic of South Yorkshire (Nuclear Free Zone). Any bus journey was 2p, even from grimy Pitsmoor in the north where I lived to the leafy suburbs of Totley where we had lectures on a Wednesday afternoon...
    All subsidised by ratepayers.
    Not something that concerned me at the time... though I did attend an NUS conference wearing a Federation of Conservative Students t-shirt... not something I’d recommend for the faint hearted...
  • Options

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    One of the things

    It is therefore doubly disappointing to see the likes of Jared O'Mara treating his voters with utter contempt, or Emma Dent Coad speaking more or less only outside the Commons and having a poor attendance record despite living so close by, or Laura Pidcock deciding to miss a crucial vote on a welfare matter she claimed was close to her heart because it was her thirtieth birthday and she and her boyfriend decided to go to Italy for a week. (I worked right through my thirtieth birthday and for several weeks afterwards for literally a fraction of her pay. So do most people in low paid jobs. Her excuse was ridiculous and she shouldn't even have bothered to give it because she merely looked even smugger than usual.)

    One reason why I expect Corbynism to burn out post-Corbyn is because even allowing for his faults the next generation of lefties are truly pathetic and not worth the effort of voting for (OK, I know Coad is old but O'Mara, Pidcock, Smith, Long-Bailey - they are young). Not, it should be said, that the other parties are better.

    I think what we are seeing is in part the consequences of a surprise election, meaning rushed selections, but also a widening of the candidates. In recent years we have got very used to polished SPADS groomed into safe seats by the two main parties. Those days are over in Labour, and to a degree in the Tories too. We see in the three that you cite an injection of unpolished fresh blood into the body politic. This was something that had been called for for years, and when it appeared, we should not be surprised that they are not what we are used to.
    Dent Coad is an experienced local politician. Don't know enough about the others to comment.

    I would have said however that such people should be more, not less, committed to politics. Skinner was hardly a SPAD when he was elected.
    I think they are committed to politics, maybe not O'Mara!, but do not see it just as a Westminster club. Extraparliamentary campaigns as a way to put pressure on governments have been the way forward in recent years, whether Brexit, anti war or gay marriage. Street level activism is the permanent campaign that Corbyn relishes.
    It's easy to relish when you're on the march. Less so whe you're on the receiving end.
  • Options

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Osborne 'I was too partisan over referendum to run for leadership.' He also says he did not want to spend his 'time and effort on a project that I didn't believe in.'

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/26/partisan-brexit-become-tory-leader-says-george-osborne/

    Interestingly Osborne has also refused to rule out a future run for London Mayor, which suggests he sees City Hall rather than Westminster and Downing Street as where his future lies if he does return to the political arena. That is probably wise given his socially liberal and pro EU views are probably more suited to the capital than the country as a whole and he could also use his editorship of the Evening Standard as a platform for a future mayoral run
    And in other news I don't rule out becoming England cricket captain or England football manager.

    George Osborne was booed at the London Paralympics.

    Since then his popularity has fallen even further and London become even more unlikely to elect a sterotypical ToryBoy.
    And specifically London has very large numbers of young graduates and renters.

    As his political strategy involved student debts and house prices rising at well above inflation rates London has probably the highest number of people who have been financially crippled by George Osborne.
  • Options
    Ishmael_Z said:



    But has she considered to points highlighted above?

    Yes the authors have considered those points.

    Unless you are doubting the veracity of people who work for a university.
    I work for a university, and I am telling you that Die Hard is a Christmas movie. So there.
    The University of Life doesn’t count.

    Given the use of buses is quantitative and film catergories is qualitive, you’re not helping your argument
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,822
    Rexel56 said:

    Was a student in the late 70’s at Sheffield Poly when it was located squarely in the Socialist Republic of South Yorkshire (Nuclear Free Zone). Any bus journey was 2p, even from grimy Pitsmoor in the north where I lived to the leafy suburbs of Totley where we had lectures on a Wednesday afternoon...

    We must be of a similar vintage, my friend. I went to Sheffield in late 1978 for a look round organised by the University for sixth formers looking at potential courses and Universities.

    I remember the bus ride from the station to the University costing 2p and I remember the paternoster lift in the University building which I believe is still there and was the first one I had ever seen.

    I've never been back to Sheffield - that's an oversight on my part I mean to correct before long.

  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,918



    But has she considered to points highlighted above?

    Yes the authors have considered those points.

    Unless you are doubting the veracity of people who work for a university.
    Where does it say that? She just asserts the corridor is busiest in Europe. Once again:

    However, this is difficult to verify because:

    No authoritative comparison is available.
    The bus frequency on Wilmslow Road varies at different points. This will be true of other corridors and hence the busiest corridor is likely to depend on how short a road can be considered.
    Bus frequencies vary over the day so the busiest corridor may depend on whether the peak frequency or average frequency is taken.
    No qualifier is given as to what constitutes 'busy' - whether frequency of buses or total passengers carried and when.
    They conducted studies.

    As I said originally, contact them for further details.
    Where does it say they conducted studies?

    She just asserts the fact: The people who live, work and travel along Europe's busiest bus route are telling their stories through a new project which will document life on Manchester’s Oxford Road Corridor.
    Because they did interviews in the local media at the time stating they did carry out studies to make those assertions.
    They brought back condutors to the buses?
  • Options

    Ishmael_Z said:



    But has she considered to points highlighted above?

    Yes the authors have considered those points.

    Unless you are doubting the veracity of people who work for a university.
    I work for a university, and I am telling you that Die Hard is a Christmas movie. So there.
    The University of Life doesn’t count.

    Given the use of buses is quantitative and film catergories is qualitive, you’re not helping your argument
    That article you quoted just asserts the fact about busiest bus route - provides no link to an academic article where they have conducted studies in a quantitative manner.

    BTW Die Hard is a Christmas movie:

    In 2010, Die Hard was voted as "The Greatest Christmas Film of All Time" by Empire Magazine.

    As the film has a Christmas setting, the score also features sleigh bells in some cues, as well as the Christmas pop standard "Winter Wonderland". [N]ear the film's beginning, limousine driver Argyle plays the rap song "Christmas in Hollis", performed by Run–D.M.C... The end credits of the film begin with the Christmas song "Let It Snow! Let It Snow! Let It Snow!" (performed by Vaughn Monroe)...
  • Options
    stodge said:

    Rexel56 said:

    Was a student in the late 70’s at Sheffield Poly when it was located squarely in the Socialist Republic of South Yorkshire (Nuclear Free Zone). Any bus journey was 2p, even from grimy Pitsmoor in the north where I lived to the leafy suburbs of Totley where we had lectures on a Wednesday afternoon...

    We must be of a similar vintage, my friend. I went to Sheffield in late 1978 for a look round organised by the University for sixth formers looking at potential courses and Universities.

    I remember the bus ride from the station to the University costing 2p and I remember the paternoster lift in the University building which I believe is still there and was the first one I had ever seen.

    I've never been back to Sheffield - that's an oversight on my part I mean to correct before long.

    They have trams in Sheffield, so might be worth going back just to ride them. There's a new extension to Rotherham Parkgate opening in 2018.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    One of the things

    It is therefore doubly disappointing to see the likes of Jared O'Mara treating his voters with utter contempt, or Emma Dent Coad speaking more or less only outside the Commons and having a poor attendance record despite living so close by, or Laura Pidcock deciding to miss a crucial vote on a welfare matter she claimed was close to her heart because it was her thirtieth birthday and she and her boyfriend decided to go to Italy for a week. (I worked right through my thirtieth birthday and for several weeks afterwards for literally a fraction of her pay. So do most people in low paid jobs. Her excuse was ridiculous and she shouldn't even have bothered to give it because she merely looked even smugger than usual.)

    One reason why I expect Corbynism to burn out post-Corbyn is because even allowing for his faults the next generation of lefties are truly pathetic and not worth the effort of voting for (OK, I know Coad is old but O'Mara, Pidcock, Smith, Long-Bailey - they are young). Not, it should be said, that the other parties are better.

    I think what we are seeing is in part the consequences of a surprise election, meaning rushed selections, but also a widening of the candidates. In recent years we have got very used to polished SPADS groomed into safe seats by the two main parties. Those days are over in Labour, and to a degree in the Tories too. We see in the three that you cite an injection of unpolished fresh blood into the body politic. This was something that had been called for for years, and when it appeared, we should not be surprised that they are not what we are used to.
    Dent Coad is an experienced local politician. Don't know enough about the others to comment.

    I would have said however that such people should be more, not less, committed to politics. Skinner was hardly a SPAD when he was elected.
    I think they are committed to politics, maybe not O'Mara!, but do not see it just as a Westminster club. Extraparliamentary campaigns as a way to put pressure on governments have been the way forward in recent years, whether Brexit, anti war or gay marriage. Street level activism is the permanent campaign that Corbyn relishes.
    It's easy to relish when you're on the march. Less so whe you're on the receiving end.
    It is perhaps the reason that the Corbyn surge of the Spring as been sustained, without any drop back in support.

    Corbynism shows no sign of fading, and it is street and social media activism that keeps it there.
  • Options



    But has she considered to points highlighted above?

    Yes the authors have considered those points.

    Unless you are doubting the veracity of people who work for a university.
    Where does it say that? She just asserts the corridor is busiest in Europe. Once again:

    However, this is difficult to verify because:

    No authoritative comparison is available.
    The bus frequency on Wilmslow Road varies at different points. This will be true of other corridors and hence the busiest corridor is likely to depend on how short a road can be considered.
    Bus frequencies vary over the day so the busiest corridor may depend on whether the peak frequency or average frequency is taken.
    No qualifier is given as to what constitutes 'busy' - whether frequency of buses or total passengers carried and when.
    They conducted studies.

    As I said originally, contact them for further details.
    Where does it say they conducted studies?

    She just asserts the fact: The people who live, work and travel along Europe's busiest bus route are telling their stories through a new project which will document life on Manchester’s Oxford Road Corridor.
    Because they did interviews in the local media at the time stating they did carry out studies to make those assertions.
    Links to peer-reviewed quantitative studies, please.
  • Options



    But has she considered to points highlighted above?

    Yes the authors have considered those points.

    Unless you are doubting the veracity of people who work for a university.
    Where does it say that? She just asserts the corridor is busiest in Europe. Once again:

    However, this is difficult to verify because:

    No authoritative comparison is available.
    The bus frequency on Wilmslow Road varies at different points. This will be true of other corridors and hence the busiest corridor is likely to depend on how short a road can be considered.
    Bus frequencies vary over the day so the busiest corridor may depend on whether the peak frequency or average frequency is taken.
    No qualifier is given as to what constitutes 'busy' - whether frequency of buses or total passengers carried and when.
    They conducted studies.

    As I said originally, contact them for further details.
    Where does it say they conducted studies?

    She just asserts the fact: The people who live, work and travel along Europe's busiest bus route are telling their stories through a new project which will document life on Manchester’s Oxford Road Corridor.
    Because they did interviews in the local media at the time stating they did carry out studies to make those assertions.
    Links to peer-reviewed quantitative studies, please.
    Contact the lady I told you to and she’ll provide them.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    How long before Alexa gets the vote? and campaigns against Siri?

    https://twitter.com/AllisonCalhoun1/status/945354733899931648
  • Options



    They brought back condutors to the buses?

    All the busses have CCTV now, no need for conductors.

    Interesting story about the CCTV on the Manchester busses.

    One of the busses on Oxford Road was involved in accident and was hit by a bus.

    The driver was hospitalised, with minor injuries.

    About a week later he was interviewed by the bus company asking him what happened etc.

    The convo turned to how many passengers were on board, the bus company said about 40 passengers had made claims/witness statements.

    The bus driver said there were no way there 40 passengers on board, 20 top.

    They look on the CCTV, and after the accident, some 20 people climbed on board and pretended to be injured.

    The CCTV had been originally installed to help identify passengers who attacked/gobbed on the bus drivers.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,789

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    One of the things

    It is therefore doubly disappointing to see the likes of Jared O'Mara treating his voters with utter contempt, or Emma Dent Coad speaking more or less only outside the Commons and having a poor attendance record despite living so close by, or Laura Pidcock deciding to miss a crucial vote on a welfare matter she claimed was close to her heart because it was her thirtieth birthday and she and her boyfriend decided to go to Italy for a week. (I worked right through my thirtieth birthday and for several weeks afterwards for literally a fraction of her pay. So do most people in low paid jobs. Her excuse was ridiculous and she shouldn't even have bothered to give it because she merely looked even smugger than usual.)

    One reason why I expect Corbynism to burn out post-Corbyn is because even allowing for his faults the next generation of lefties are truly pathetic and not worth the effort of voting for (OK, I know Coad is old but O'Mara, Pidcock, Smith, Long-Bailey - they are young). Not, it should be said, that the other parties are better.

    I think what we are seeing is in part the consequences of a surprise election, meaning rushed selections, but also a widening of the candidates. In recent years we have got very used to polished SPADS groomed into safe seats by the two main parties. Those days are over in Labour, and to a degree in the Tories too. We see in the three that you cite an injection of unpolished fresh blood into the body politic. This was something that had been called for for years, and when it appeared, we should not be surprised that they are not what we are used to.
    Dent Coad is an experienced local politician. Don't know enough about the others to comment.

    I would have said however that such people should be more, not less, committed to politics. Skinner was hardly a SPAD when he was elected.
    I think they are committed to politics, maybe not O'Mara!, but do not see it just as a Westminster club. Extraparliamentary campaigns as a way to put pressure on governments have been the way forward in recent years, whether Brexit, anti war or gay marriage. Street level activism is the permanent campaign that Corbyn relishes.
    It's easy to relish when you're on the march. Less so whe you're on the receiving end.
    It is perhaps the reason that the Corbyn surge of the Spring as been sustained, without any drop back in support.

    Corbynism shows no sign of fading, and it is street and social media activism that keeps it there.
    Though, many people react strongly against it, which is one reason why the Conservatives are on 40%.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,125

    How long before Alexa gets the vote? and campaigns against Siri?

    https://twitter.com/AllisonCalhoun1/status/945354733899931648

    Has anyone asked them about pineapple on pizza?
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,936
    edited December 2017

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Osborne 'I was too partisan over referendum to run for leadership.' He also says he did not want to spend his 'time and effort on a project that I didn't believe in.'

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/26/partisan-brexit-become-tory-leader-says-george-osborne/

    Interestingly Osborne has also refused to rule out a future run for London Mayor, which suggests he sees City Hall rather than Westminster and Downing Street as where his future lies if he does return to the political arena. That is probably wise given his socially liberal and pro EU views are probably more suited to the capital than the country as a whole and he could also use his editorship of the Evening Standard as a platform for a future mayoral run
    And in other news I don't rule out becoming England cricket captain or England football manager.

    George Osborne was booed at the London Paralympics.

    Since then his popularity has fallen even further and London become even more unlikely to elect a sterotypical ToryBoy.
    And specifically London has very large numbers of young graduates and renters.

    As his political strategy involved student debts and house prices rising at well above inflation rates London has probably the highest number of people who have been financially crippled by George Osborne.
    Unless Osborne is just trolling the Tory leadership (not something I'm willing to rule out, based on his past exploits), expectation of any return to politics, and especially London politics, suggests to me that he doesn't have the necessary self awareness....

    I reckon anyone with a red rosette would beat Osborne in London.

  • Options

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:


    I would be more interested in a politician who thought that an army of 80k doesn't require more than 1 general and that a Navy of about 17 ships probably doesn't require an admiral at all. There is so much to do in focussing the limited resources of the forces to the sharp end. Maybe if the focus was on that and the squaddies got decent pay and housing along with the admittedly excellent training they currently get recruitment would be less of an issue.


    1 general might have difficulty managing 80,000. It's hard to see why more than about 20 people of Brigadier rank and upwards would be needed, though.
    As opposed to the 200 we currently have.
    Parkinson's Law long ago predicted as a joke that Britain would eventually have more admirals than ships. This came true in 2008.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,811
    DavidL said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Farage and Godfrey Bloom confirming UKIP are the BNP in blazers is really troubling.

    Time to proscribe UKIP like we do with Combat 18,

    Don't you like political parties that disagree with you?

    UKIP is deeply unpleasant, as is the BNP, but neither should be proscribed. Combat 18's leadership have been directly implicated in violence and, in some cases, murder.
    he'll be banning buses next
    No.

    Buses are useful for identifying failures in life.

    Cf Mrs Thatcher’s reputed comments on bus users. Even if she didn’t say it, the sentiment was right.
    I happily take a bus when it is the most convenient and cost effective mode of transport
    On a sunny day - taking a double decker bus in London - especially if you can sit at the front with a panaramic glass front is a lovely way to travel.
    Not so easy in the rest of the country where they are scarcer than hens teeth, as ever the majority suffer to subsidise plenty in London.
    Plenty of double deckers in Edinburgh and Dundee Malcolm. More rural routes don't need them as even a single decker is rarely full but they are not uncommon in Angus either.
    Lots of double deckers in Gloucestershire. Strangely not so many in south Staffordshire, possibly because the rail network is much better. Don't recall seeing many in Aberystwyth but there were a lot of low bridges around there as well.
    Maybe they don't go past malc's Scottish country pile... :D
    My pile of second hand bricks holding down my tent as the Tories have stolen all my hard earned salary you mean.
    Aren't the SNP in charge of taxation these days? ;)
    Not completely. Or he wouldn't have any bricks either.

    "Daddy, what do all those stars mean?"

    Malc (for it is he) "It means Nicola has nicked our tent son. But its all for the cause so its fine."
    With sarcasm like that I presume you had two babies for breakfast instead of your usual one.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,125
    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Farage and Godfrey Bloom confirming UKIP are the BNP in blazers is really troubling.

    Time to proscribe UKIP like we do with Combat 18,

    Don't you like political parties that disagree with you?

    UKIP is deeply unpleasant, as is the BNP, but neither should be proscribed. Combat 18's leadership have been directly implicated in violence and, in some cases, murder.
    he'll be banning buses next
    No.

    Buses are useful for identifying failures in life.

    Cf Mrs Thatcher’s reputed comments on bus users. Even if she didn’t say it, the sentiment was right.
    I happily take a bus when it is the most convenient and cost effective mode of transport
    On a sunny day - taking a double decker bus in London - especially if you can sit at the front with a panaramic glass front is a lovely way to travel.
    Not so easy in the rest of the country where they are scarcer than hens teeth, as ever the majority suffer to subsidise plenty in London.
    Plenty of double deckers in Edinburgh and Dundee Malcolm. More rural routes don't need them as even a single decker is rarely full but they are not uncommon in Angus either.
    Lots of double deckers in Gloucestershire. Strangely not so many in south Staffordshire, possibly because the rail network is much better. Don't recall seeing many in Aberystwyth but there were a lot of low bridges around there as well.
    Maybe they don't go past malc's Scottish country pile... :D
    My pile of second hand bricks holding down my tent as the Tories have stolen all my hard earned salary you mean.
    Aren't the SNP in charge of taxation these days? ;)
    Not completely. Or he wouldn't have any bricks either.

    "Daddy, what do all those stars mean?"

    Malc (for it is he) "It means Nicola has nicked our tent son. But its all for the cause so its fine."
    With sarcasm like that I presume you had two babies for breakfast instead of your usual one.
    Well it is Christmas. And the Turkey gets boring.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,811
    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Farage and Godfrey Bloom confirming UKIP are the BNP in blazers is really troubling.

    Time to proscribe UKIP like we do with Combat 18,

    Don't you like political parties that disagree with you?

    UKIP is deeply unpleasant, as is the BNP, but neither should be proscribed. Combat 18's leadership have been directly implicated in violence and, in some cases, murder.
    he'll be banning buses next
    No.

    Buses are useful for identifying failures in life.

    Cf Mrs Thatcher’s reputed comments on bus users. Even if she didn’t say it, the sentiment was right.
    I happily take a bus when it is the most convenient and cost effective mode of transport
    On a sunny day - taking a double decker bus in London - especially if you can sit at the front with a panaramic glass front is a lovely way to travel.
    Not so easy in the rest of the country where they are scarcer than hens teeth, as ever the majority suffer to subsidise plenty in London.
    Plenty of double deckers in Edinburgh and Dundee Malcolm. More rural routes don't need them as even a single decker is rarely full but they are not uncommon in Angus either.
    Lots of double deckers in Gloucestershire. Strangely not so many in south Staffordshire, possibly because the rail network is much better. Don't recall seeing many in Aberystwyth but there were a lot of low bridges around there as well.
    Maybe they don't go past malc's Scottish country pile... :D
    My pile of second hand bricks holding down my tent as the Tories have stolen all my hard earned salary you mean.
    Aren't the SNP in charge of taxation these days? ;)
    Only one limited one that makes things worse unfortunately, why the dumplings agreed to accept the crappy deal on offer is inexplicable.
    I thought they could adjust income tax, which is what you were complaining about :smiley:
    worst possible thing to change in isolation though, bit like partial hanging yourself , not a great idea.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,319



    At least O'Mara's had a job where he must deal with cash flow, VAT, etc. Highly unusual for Labour MPs who appear to have zero knowledge of SMEs and the self-employed. Have any other Labour MPs ever seen a VAT return?!

    I'd say give him a chance but 6 months ought to be time for progress ... and a maiden speech!

    I agree, though I suspect there may be a health issue. On your other point, I've run two successful small businesses - still running one as a second job, in fact. But SME experience was thin on the ground on both sides of the House - Tory experience was very centred on the City (even experiuence of larger non-financial businesses was rare, don't know if that's changed), Labour on teaching and other public sector work.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,811
    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Farage and Godfrey Bloom confirming UKIP are the BNP in blazers is really troubling.

    Time to proscribe UKIP like we do with Combat 18,

    Don't you like political parties that disagree with you?

    UKIP is deeply unpleasant, as is the BNP, but neither should be proscribed. Combat 18's leadership have been directly implicated in violence and, in some cases, murder.
    he'll be banning buses next
    No.

    Buses are useful for identifying failures in life.

    Cf Mrs Thatcher’s reputed comments on bus users. Even if she didn’t say it, the sentiment was right.
    I happily take a bus when it is the most convenient and cost effective mode of transport
    On a sunny day - taking a double decker bus in London - especially if you can sit at the front with a panaramic glass front is a lovely way to travel.
    Not so easy in the rest of the country where they are scarcer than hens teeth, as ever the majority suffer to subsidise plenty in London.
    Plenty of double deckers in Edinburgh and Dundee Malcolm. More rural routes don't need them as even a single decker is rarely full but they are not uncommon in Angus either.
    Lots of double deckers in Gloucestershire. Strangely not so many in south Staffordshire, possibly because the rail network is much better. Don't recall seeing many in Aberystwyth but there were a lot of low bridges around there as well.
    Maybe they don't go past malc's Scottish country pile... :D
    My pile of second hand bricks holding down my tent as the Tories have stolen all my hard earned salary you mean.
    Aren't the SNP in charge of taxation these days? ;)
    Not completely. Or he wouldn't have any bricks either.

    "Daddy, what do all those stars mean?"

    Malc (for it is he) "It means Nicola has nicked our tent son. But its all for the cause so its fine."
    With sarcasm like that I presume you had two babies for breakfast instead of your usual one.
    Well it is Christmas. And the Turkey gets boring.
    Enough hilarity I have much to do , au revoir for now
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758



    They brought back condutors to the buses?

    All the busses have CCTV now, no need for conductors.

    Interesting story about the CCTV on the Manchester busses.

    One of the busses on Oxford Road was involved in accident and was hit by a bus.

    The driver was hospitalised, with minor injuries.

    About a week later he was interviewed by the bus company asking him what happened etc.

    The convo turned to how many passengers were on board, the bus company said about 40 passengers had made claims/witness statements.

    The bus driver said there were no way there 40 passengers on board, 20 top.

    They look on the CCTV, and after the accident, some 20 people climbed on board and pretended to be injured.

    The CCTV had been originally installed to help identify passengers who attacked/gobbed on the bus drivers.
    I hope they are all prosecuted for attempted fraud and wasting police time
  • Options
    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    Yorkcity said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/dec/27/campaign-launched-return-east-coast-rail-public-ownership Private Sector bail out on East Coast line yet again..No wonder many people think it should be returned to public ownership.

    It's fake news though, isn't it? There is no 'bail out'. The Treasury won't be getting what it would have been but it's still not paying the operators. It's a politically motivated campaign that not only has little to do with the facts but openly eschews them.
    I suppose they should have said Private Sector again fail to honour signed contract on East Coast main line.So now Virgin GNER and Stagecoach renege.They could have left it in the public sector as it was between 2009 to 15.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,936



    At least O'Mara's had a job where he must deal with cash flow, VAT, etc. Highly unusual for Labour MPs who appear to have zero knowledge of SMEs and the self-employed. Have any other Labour MPs ever seen a VAT return?!

    I'd say give him a chance but 6 months ought to be time for progress ... and a maiden speech!

    I agree, though I suspect there may be a health issue. On your other point, I've run two successful small businesses - still running one as a second job, in fact. But SME experience was thin on the ground on both sides of the House - Tory experience was very centred on the City (even experiuence of larger non-financial businesses was rare, don't know if that's changed), Labour on teaching and other public sector work.
    Sad to hear re: SME experience.

    Many small business owners that I know would make excellent MPs. The ability to juggle the routine and the strategic, and especially to free various sectors from bits of largely valueless bureaucracy would be valuable skills.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,789
    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Osborne 'I was too partisan over referendum to run for leadership.' He also says he did not want to spend his 'time and effort on a project that I didn't believe in.'

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/26/partisan-brexit-become-tory-leader-says-george-osborne/

    Interestingly Osborne has also refused to rule out a future run for London Mayor, which suggests he sees City Hall rather than Westminster and Downing Street as where his future lies if he does return to the political arena. That is probably wise given his socially liberal and pro EU views are probably more suited to the capital than the country as a whole and he could also use his editorship of the Evening Standard as a platform for a future mayoral run
    And in other news I don't rule out becoming England cricket captain or England football manager.

    George Osborne was booed at the London Paralympics.

    Since then his popularity has fallen even further and London become even more unlikely to elect a sterotypical ToryBoy.
    And specifically London has very large numbers of young graduates and renters.

    As his political strategy involved student debts and house prices rising at well above inflation rates London has probably the highest number of people who have been financially crippled by George Osborne.
    Unless Osborne is just trolling the Tory leadership (not something I'm willing to rule out, based on his past exploits), expectation of any return to politics, and especially London politics, suggests to me that he doesn't have the necessary self awareness....

    I reckon anyone with a red rosette would beat Osborne in London.

    I think Osborne would poll well in the West End, Wandsworth, Fulham, Acton, Brentford, Richmond, Kingston, Wimbledon, Barnet and Southgate. He'd go nowhere in Labour bastions like the East End, Ilford, Lambeth, Greenwich, Brent, Southall, Lewisham, Haringey, Islington, Camden, Hammersmith, Mitcham, Edmonton, North Croydon.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    One of the things

    It is therefore doubly disappointing to

    One reason why I expect Corbynism to burn out post-Corbyn is because even allowing for his faults the next generation of lefties are truly pathetic and not worth the effort of voting for (OK, I know Coad is old but O'Mara, Pidcock, Smith, Long-Bailey - they are young). Not, it should be said, that the other parties are better.

    I think what we are seeing is in part the consequences of a surprise election, meaning rushed selections, but also a widening of the candidates. In recent years we have got very used to polished SPADS groomed into safe seats by the two main parties. Those days are over in Labour, and to a degree in the Tories too. We see in the three that you cite an injection of unpolished fresh blood into the body politic. This was something that had been called for for years, and when it appeared, we should not be surprised that they are not what we are used to.
    Dent Coad is an experienced local politician. Don't know enough about the others to comment.

    I would have said however that such people should be more, not less, committed to politics. Skinner was hardly a SPAD when he was elected.
    I think they are committed to politics, maybe not O'Mara!, but do not see it just as a Westminster club. Extraparliamentary campaigns as a way to put pressure on governments have been the way forward in recent years, whether Brexit, anti war or gay marriage. Street level activism is the permanent campaign that Corbyn relishes.
    It's easy to relish when you're on the march. Less so whe you're on the receiving end.
    It is perhaps the reason that the Corbyn surge of the Spring as been sustained, without any drop back in support.

    Corbynism shows no sign of fading, and it is street and social media activism that keeps it there.
    Though, many people react strongly against it, which is one reason why the Conservatives are on 40%.
    Sure, but since the referendum it's the Cons who have often polled in the forties, it is unusual for Labour to match it.
  • Options

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:


    I would be more interested in a politician who thought that an army of 80k doesn't require more than 1 general and that a Navy of about 17 ships probably doesn't require an admiral at all. There is so much to do in focussing the limited resources of the forces to the sharp end. Maybe if the focus was on that and the squaddies got decent pay and housing along with the admittedly excellent training they currently get recruitment would be less of an issue.


    1 general might have difficulty managing 80,000. It's hard to see why more than about 20 people of Brigadier rank and upwards would be needed, though.
    As opposed to the 200 we currently have.
    Parkinson's Law long ago predicted as a joke that Britain would eventually have more admirals than ships. This came true in 2008.
    There's a Yes Prime Minister episode where the excessive number of generals and admirals is mocked.

    Since then the number of generals and admirals has increase by approximately 50% while overall miltary personnel has halved.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited December 2017
    Mortimer said:



    At least O'Mara's had a job where he must deal with cash flow, VAT, etc. Highly unusual for Labour MPs who appear to have zero knowledge of SMEs and the self-employed. Have any other Labour MPs ever seen a VAT return?!

    I'd say give him a chance but 6 months ought to be time for progress ... and a maiden speech!

    I agree, though I suspect there may be a health issue. On your other point, I've run two successful small businesses - still running one as a second job, in fact. But SME experience was thin on the ground on both sides of the House - Tory experience was very centred on the City (even experiuence of larger non-financial businesses was rare, don't know if that's changed), Labour on teaching and other public sector work.
    Sad to hear re: SME experience.

    Many small business owners that I know would make excellent MPs. The ability to juggle the routine and the strategic, and especially to free various sectors from bits of largely valueless bureaucracy would be valuable skills.
    The other people who are missing are ordinary workers. NickP's assembly line worker turned caseworker may well have become a diligent MP, given the chance.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    Yorkcity said:

    Yorkcity said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/dec/27/campaign-launched-return-east-coast-rail-public-ownership Private Sector bail out on East Coast line yet again..No wonder many people think it should be returned to public ownership.

    It's fake news though, isn't it? There is no 'bail out'. The Treasury won't be getting what it would have been but it's still not paying the operators. It's a politically motivated campaign that not only has little to do with the facts but openly eschews them.
    I suppose they should have said Private Sector again fail to honour signed contract on East Coast main line.So now Virgin GNER and Stagecoach renege.They could have left it in the public sector as it was between 2009 to 15.
    They are breaking the contract, or is it being ended early under provisions laid out in the contract?
  • Options



    But has she considered to points highlighted above?

    Yes the authors have considered those points.

    Unless you are doubting the veracity of people who work for a university.
    Where does it say that? She just asserts the corridor is busiest in Europe. Once again:

    However, this is difficult to verify because:

    No authoritative comparison is available.
    The bus frequency on Wilmslow Road varies at different points. This will be true of other corridors and hence the busiest corridor is likely to depend on how short a road can be considered.
    Bus frequencies vary over the day so the busiest corridor may depend on whether the peak frequency or average frequency is taken.
    No qualifier is given as to what constitutes 'busy' - whether frequency of buses or total passengers carried and when.
    They conducted studies.

    As I said originally, contact them for further details.
    Where does it say they conducted studies?

    She just asserts the fact: The people who live, work and travel along Europe's busiest bus route are telling their stories through a new project which will document life on Manchester’s Oxford Road Corridor.
    Because they did interviews in the local media at the time stating they did carry out studies to make those assertions.
    Links to peer-reviewed quantitative studies, please.
    Contact the lady I told you to and she’ll provide them.
    OK, so you're finally admitting she's just ASSERTING that Wilmslow Road is busiest bus route in Europe.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,046
    edited December 2017
    Sean_F said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Osborne 'I was too partisan over referendum to run for leadership.' He also says he did not want to spend his 'time and effort on a project that I didn't believe in.'

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/26/partisan-brexit-become-tory-leader-says-george-osborne/

    Interestingly Osborne has also refused to rule out a future run for London Mayor, which suggests he sees City Hall rather than Westminster and Downing Street as where his future lies if he does return to the political arena. That is probably wise given his socially liberal and pro EU views are probably more suited to the capital than the country as a whole and he could also use his editorship of the Evening Standard as a platform for a future mayoral run
    And in other news I don't rule out becoming England cricket captain or England football manager.

    George Osborne was booed at the London Paralympics.

    Since then his popularity has fallen even further and London become even more unlikely to elect a sterotypical ToryBoy.
    And specifically London has very large numbers of young graduates and renters.

    As his political strategy involved student debts and house prices rising at well above inflation rates London has probably the highest number of people who have been financially crippled by George Osborne.
    Unless Osborne is just trolling the Tory leadership (not something I'm willing to rule out, based on his past exploits), expectation of any return to politics, and especially London politics, suggests to me that he doesn't have the necessary self awareness....

    I reckon anyone with a red rosette would beat Osborne in London.

    I think Osborne would poll well in the West End, Wandsworth, Fulham, Acton, Brentford, Richmond, Kingston, Wimbledon, Barnet and Southgate. He'd go nowhere in Labour bastions like the East End, Ilford, Lambeth, Greenwich, Brent, Southall, Lewisham, Haringey, Islington, Camden, Hammersmith, Mitcham, Edmonton, North Croydon.
    I doubt he'd do well in the lower middle class outer belt or among the remnants of the wwc council estate vote.

    And I think his attraction would be restricted to home owners so he would struggle in much of Wandsworth.

    As an aside its interesting how we think of Brentford and Acton as affluent places as a result of their parliamentary constituency names whereas those districts are pretty deprived and its Chiswick and Ealing respectively which are the areas of affluence.
  • Options

    Ishmael_Z said:



    But has she considered to points highlighted above?

    Yes the authors have considered those points.

    Unless you are doubting the veracity of people who work for a university.
    I work for a university, and I am telling you that Die Hard is a Christmas movie. So there.
    The University of Life doesn’t count.

    Given the use of buses is quantitative and film catergories is qualitive, you’re not helping your argument
    https://www.empireonline.com/movies/features/empire-30-best-christmas-movies/
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:


    I would be more interested in a politician who thought that an army of 80k doesn't require more than 1 general and that a Navy of about 17 ships probably doesn't require an admiral at all. There is so much to do in focussing the limited resources of the forces to the sharp end. Maybe if the focus was on that and the squaddies got decent pay and housing along with the admittedly excellent training they currently get recruitment would be less of an issue.


    1 general might have difficulty managing 80,000. It's hard to see why more than about 20 people of Brigadier rank and upwards would be needed, though.
    As opposed to the 200 we currently have.
    Parkinson's Law long ago predicted as a joke that Britain would eventually have more admirals than ships. This came true in 2008.
    There is another side to it, in that in a small armed forces with long commissions and long service in technical ranks, there needs to be a possibility of career progression. Hence the high numbers of admirals. Perhaps we need to bring back Admirals of the Yellow.

  • Options



    But has she considered to points highlighted above?

    Yes the authors have considered those points.

    Unless you are doubting the veracity of people who work for a university.
    Where does it say that? She just asserts the corridor is busiest in Europe. Once again:

    However, this is difficult to verify because:

    No authoritative comparison is available.
    The bus frequency on Wilmslow Road varies at different points. This will be true of other corridors and hence the busiest corridor is likely to depend on how short a road can be considered.
    Bus frequencies vary over the day so the busiest corridor may depend on whether the peak frequency or average frequency is taken.
    No qualifier is given as to what constitutes 'busy' - whether frequency of buses or total passengers carried and when.
    They conducted studies.

    As I said originally, contact them for further details.
    Where does it say they conducted studies?

    She just asserts the fact: The people who live, work and travel along Europe's busiest bus route are telling their stories through a new project which will document life on Manchester’s Oxford Road Corridor.
    Because they did interviews in the local media at the time stating they did carry out studies to make those assertions.
    Links to peer-reviewed quantitative studies, please.
    Contact the lady I told you to and she’ll provide them.
    OK, so you're finally admitting she's just ASSERTING that Wilmslow Road is busiest bus route in Europe.
    No.

    Is English even your first language ?
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961



    But has she considered to points highlighted above?

    Yes the authors have considered those points.

    Unless you are doubting the veracity of people who work for a university.
    Where does it say that? She just asserts the corridor is busiest in Europe. Once again:

    However, this is difficult to verify because:

    No authoritative comparison is available.
    The bus frequency on Wilmslow Road varies at different points. This will be true of other corridors and hence the busiest corridor is likely to depend on how short a road can be considered.
    Bus frequencies vary over the day so the busiest corridor may depend on whether the peak frequency or average frequency is taken.
    No qualifier is given as to what constitutes 'busy' - whether frequency of buses or total passengers carried and when.
    They conducted studies.

    As I said originally, contact them for further details.
    Where does it say they conducted studies?

    She just asserts the fact: The people who live, work and travel along Europe's busiest bus route are telling their stories through a new project which will document life on Manchester’s Oxford Road Corridor.
    Because they did interviews in the local media at the time stating they did carry out studies to make those assertions.
    Links to peer-reviewed quantitative studies, please.
    Contact the lady I told you to and she’ll provide them.
    OK, so you're finally admitting she's just ASSERTING that Wilmslow Road is busiest bus route in Europe.
    No.

    Is English even your first language ?
    For someone that mocks the peasant wagons you sure know a lot about them ;):p
  • Options

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:


    I would be more interested in a politician who thought that an army of 80k doesn't require more than 1 general and that a Navy of about 17 ships probably doesn't require an admiral at all. There is so much to do in focussing the limited resources of the forces to the sharp end. Maybe if the focus was on that and the squaddies got decent pay and housing along with the admittedly excellent training they currently get recruitment would be less of an issue.


    1 general might have difficulty managing 80,000. It's hard to see why more than about 20 people of Brigadier rank and upwards would be needed, though.
    As opposed to the 200 we currently have.
    Parkinson's Law long ago predicted as a joke that Britain would eventually have more admirals than ships. This came true in 2008.
    There is another side to it, in that in a small armed forces with long commissions and long service in technical ranks, there needs to be a possibility of career progression. Hence the high numbers of admirals. Perhaps we need to bring back Admirals of the Yellow.

    Or, alternatively, some of the existing admirals who aren't of the highest quality could be pensioned off.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,940
    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Osborne 'I was too partisan over referendum to run for leadership.' He also says he did not want to spend his 'time and effort on a project that I didn't believe in.'

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/26/partisan-brexit-become-tory-leader-says-george-osborne/

    Interestingly Osborne has also refused to rule out a future run for London Mayor, which suggests he sees City Hall rather than Westminster and Downing Street as where his future lies if he does return to the political arena. That is probably wise given his socially liberal and pro EU views are probably more suited to the capital than the country as a whole and he could also use his editorship of the Evening Standard as a platform for a future mayoral run
    And in other news I don't rule out becoming England cricket captain or England football manager.

    George Osborne was booed at the London Paralympics.

    Since then his popularity has fallen even further and London become even more unlikely to elect a sterotypical ToryBoy.
    And specifically London has very large numbers of young graduates and renters.

    As his political strategy involved student debts and house prices rising at well above inflation rates London has probably the highest number of people who have been financially crippled by George Osborne.
    Unless Osborne is just trolling the Tory leadership (not something I'm willing to rule out, based on his past exploits), expectation of any return to politics, and especially London politics, suggests to me that he doesn't have the necessary self awareness....

    I reckon anyone with a red rosette would beat Osborne in London.

    I disagree. While I would certainly oppose a return by Osborne to national politics in London politics, where there is a higher upper middle class, pro EU and liberal vote he would be ideally suited. Next time may be an election too early but 2024, say with an unpopular Corbyn government, would be ideally suited for a centrist Tory to win the party's mayoral nomination and the Mayoralty
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,125

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:


    I would be more interested in a politician who thought that an army of 80k doesn't require more than 1 general and that a Navy of about 17 ships probably doesn't require an admiral at all. There is so much to do in focussing the limited resources of the forces to the sharp end. Maybe if the focus was on that and the squaddies got decent pay and housing along with the admittedly excellent training they currently get recruitment would be less of an issue.


    1 general might have difficulty managing 80,000. It's hard to see why more than about 20 people of Brigadier rank and upwards would be needed, though.
    As opposed to the 200 we currently have.
    Parkinson's Law long ago predicted as a joke that Britain would eventually have more admirals than ships. This came true in 2008.
    There is another side to it, in that in a small armed forces with long commissions and long service in technical ranks, there needs to be a possibility of career progression. Hence the high numbers of admirals. Perhaps we need to bring back Admirals of the Yellow.

    Or, alternatively, some of the existing admirals who aren't of the highest quality could be pensioned off.
    The problem, as with our surplus generals, is that these are people of very high quality indeed but we don't have the ships, the men, or the tanks to give them a purpose.

    My first reservations about Hammond came from his time at the MoD. He sorted out a truly horrendous and chaotic order book which was overspent and costing billions in delayed costs (way over £1.5bn on the carriers alone) but he did nothing about the structure of the forces themselves other than the traditional cheese paring which simply reduces effectiveness. We really need a properly competent SoS for Defence. Williamson is very unlikely to be it.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,940
    edited December 2017



    At least O'Mara's had a job where he must deal with cash flow, VAT, etc. Highly unusual for Labour MPs who appear to have zero knowledge of SMEs and the self-employed. Have any other Labour MPs ever seen a VAT return?!

    I'd say give him a chance but 6 months ought to be time for progress ... and a maiden speech!

    I agree, though I suspect there may be a health issue. On your other point, I've run two successful small businesses - still running one as a second job, in fact. But SME experience was thin on the ground on both sides of the House - Tory experience was very centred on the City (even experiuence of larger non-financial businesses was rare, don't know if that's changed), Labour on teaching and other public sector work.
    There was Archie Norman, former Asda chairman of course but now I think a plurality of Tories have a business background and in marginal seats I expect a significant number have SME experience. It trends to be when the Tories are in opposition and most Tory MPs tend to be from safe seats their background tends to be focused on the Bar, the City or professional SPAD
  • Options
    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:


    I would be more interested in a politician who thought that an army of 80k doesn't require more than 1 general and that a Navy of about 17 ships probably doesn't require an admiral at all. There is so much to do in focussing the limited resources of the forces to the sharp end. Maybe if the focus was on that and the squaddies got decent pay and housing along with the admittedly excellent training they currently get recruitment would be less of an issue.


    1 general might have difficulty managing 80,000. It's hard to see why more than about 20 people of Brigadier rank and upwards would be needed, though.
    As opposed to the 200 we currently have.
    Parkinson's Law long ago predicted as a joke that Britain would eventually have more admirals than ships. This came true in 2008.
    There is another side to it, in that in a small armed forces with long commissions and long service in technical ranks, there needs to be a possibility of career progression. Hence the high numbers of admirals. Perhaps we need to bring back Admirals of the Yellow.

    Or, alternatively, some of the existing admirals who aren't of the highest quality could be pensioned off.
    The problem, as with our surplus generals, is that these are people of very high quality indeed but we don't have the ships, the men, or the tanks to give them a purpose.

    My first reservations about Hammond came from his time at the MoD. He sorted out a truly horrendous and chaotic order book which was overspent and costing billions in delayed costs (way over £1.5bn on the carriers alone) but he did nothing about the structure of the forces themselves other than the traditional cheese paring which simply reduces effectiveness. We really need a properly competent SoS for Defence. Williamson is very unlikely to be it.
    They may well be of very high quality indeed. But they are literally redundant. Perhaps they could be reskilled in different government departments.

    One of the few favours that Brexit might have done Britain is to force it to realise that it simply can't afford to strut on the world stage in the way that it once did. If it is going to blow all its money on pursuing Brexit, defence is going to have to be one of the areas for savings.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited December 2017

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:


    I would be more interested in a politician who thought that an army of 80k doesn't require more than 1 general and that a Navy of about 17 ships probably doesn't require an admiral at all. There is so much to do in focussing the limited resources of the forces to the sharp end. Maybe if the focus was on that and the squaddies got decent pay and housing along with the admittedly excellent training they currently get recruitment would be less of an issue.


    1 general might have difficulty managing 80,000. It's hard to see why more than about 20 people of Brigadier rank and upwards would be needed, though.
    As opposed to the 200 we currently have.
    Parkinson's Law long ago predicted as a joke that Britain would eventually have more admirals than ships. This came true in 2008.
    There is another side to it, in that in a small armed forces with long commissions and long service in technical ranks, there needs to be a possibility of career progression. Hence the high numbers of admirals. Perhaps we need to bring back Admirals of the Yellow.

    Or, alternatively, some of the existing admirals who aren't of the highest quality could be pensioned off.
    As I recall, that is what happened to Admirals of the Yellow.

    My cousin has now retired as Lt Col, after a 30 year career, inc a couple of tours of Afghanistan and Iraq, as well as the Balkans and Northern Ireland. He greatly enjoyed the life, and now does consultancy work for BAE in his technical field.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,940
    edited December 2017
    Sean_F said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Osborne 'I was too partisan over referendum to run for leadership.' He also says he did not want to spend his 'time and effort on a project that I didn't believe in.'

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/26/partisan-brexit-become-tory-leader-says-george-osborne/

    Interestingly Osborne has also refused to rule out a future run for London Mayor, which suggests he sees City Hall rather than Westminster and Downing Street as where his future lies if he does return to the political arena. That is probably wise given his socially liberal and pro EU views are probably more suited to the capital than the country as a whole and he could also use his editorship of the Evening Standard as a platform for a future mayoral run
    And in other news I don't rule out becoming England cricket captain or England football manager.

    George Osborne was booed at the London Paralympics.

    Since then his popularity has fallen even further and London become even more unlikely to elect a sterotypical ToryBoy.
    And specifically London has very large numbers of young graduates and renters.

    As his political strategy involved student debts and house prices rising at well above inflation rates London has probably the highest number of people who have been financially crippled by George Osborne.
    Unless Osborne is just trolling the Tory leadership (not something I'm willing to rule out, based on his past exploits), expectation of any return to politics, and especially London politics, suggests to me that he doesn't have the necessary self awareness....

    I reckon anyone with a red rosette would beat Osborne in London.

    I think Osborne would poll well in the West End, Wandsworth, Fulham, Acton, Brentford, Richmond, Kingston, Wimbledon, Barnet and Southgate. He'd go nowhere in Labour bastions like the East End, Ilford, Lambeth, Greenwich, Brent, Southall, Lewisham, Haringey, Islington, Camden, Hammersmith, Mitcham, Edmonton, North Croydon.
    Yes but of course Boris won twice by winning most of the former (plus Tory bastions Bromley, Bexley and Havering) and losing most of the latter
  • Options
    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    RobD said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Yorkcity said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/dec/27/campaign-launched-return-east-coast-rail-public-ownership Private Sector bail out on East Coast line yet again..No wonder many people think it should be returned to public ownership.

    It's fake news though, isn't it? There is no 'bail out'. The Treasury won't be getting what it would have been but it's still not paying the operators. It's a politically motivated campaign that not only has little to do with the facts but openly eschews them.
    I suppose they should have said Private Sector again fail to honour signed contract on East Coast main line.So now Virgin GNER and Stagecoach renege.They could have left it in the public sector as it was between 2009 to 15.
    They are breaking the contract, or is it being ended early under provisions laid out in the contract?
    I believe it was terminated 3 years early .As the contractor was on the brink of handing it back to the government.
  • Options
    RobD said:



    But has she considered to points highlighted above?

    Yes the authors have considered those points.

    Unless you are doubting the veracity of people who work for a university.
    Where does it say that? She just asserts the corridor is busiest in Europe. Once again:

    However, this is difficult to verify because:

    No authoritative comparison is available.
    The bus frequency on Wilmslow Road varies at different points. This will be true of other corridors and hence the busiest corridor is likely to depend on how short a road can be considered.
    Bus frequencies vary over the day so the busiest corridor may depend on whether the peak frequency or average frequency is taken.
    No qualifier is given as to what constitutes 'busy' - whether frequency of buses or total passengers carried and when.
    They conducted studies.

    As I said originally, contact them for further details.
    Where does it say they conducted studies?

    She just asserts the fact: The people who live, work and travel along Europe's busiest bus route are telling their stories through a new project which will document life on Manchester’s Oxford Road Corridor.
    Because they did interviews in the local media at the time stating they did carry out studies to make those assertions.
    Links to peer-reviewed quantitative studies, please.
    Contact the lady I told you to and she’ll provide them.
    OK, so you're finally admitting she's just ASSERTING that Wilmslow Road is busiest bus route in Europe.
    No.

    Is English even your first language ?
    For someone that mocks the peasant wagons you sure know a lot about them ;):p
    When your girlfriend is a student in Manchester you kind of become an expert in peasant wagons and waiting for her to turn up.
  • Options

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:


    I would be more interested in a politician who thought that an army of 80k doesn't require more than 1 general and that a Navy of about 17 ships probably doesn't require an admiral at all. There is so much to do in focussing the limited resources of the forces to the sharp end. Maybe if the focus was on that and the squaddies got decent pay and housing along with the admittedly excellent training they currently get recruitment would be less of an issue.


    1 general might have difficulty managing 80,000. It's hard to see why more than about 20 people of Brigadier rank and upwards would be needed, though.
    As opposed to the 200 we currently have.
    Parkinson's Law long ago predicted as a joke that Britain would eventually have more admirals than ships. This came true in 2008.
    There is another side to it, in that in a small armed forces with long commissions and long service in technical ranks, there needs to be a possibility of career progression. Hence the high numbers of admirals. Perhaps we need to bring back Admirals of the Yellow.

    We should take lessons from other countries who view their armed forces as having both a military and civil function. Although purely for self defence and some limited UN Peace Keeping operations, Japan spends very similar amounts on their armed forces than the UK (both around £34.3 billion a year) but has significantly more full time personnel (247,000 as opposed to 153,000). They are a ready source of expertise and manpower in case of natural disasters. It is here where I think the aircraft carriers are also a good idea. As we saw in the 2004 Tsunami, an aircraft carrier is invaluable for rescue and relief operations.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,285
    edited December 2017
    Pub game.

    Though I do admire the mathematical ability of the players.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    Yorkcity said:

    RobD said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Yorkcity said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/dec/27/campaign-launched-return-east-coast-rail-public-ownership Private Sector bail out on East Coast line yet again..No wonder many people think it should be returned to public ownership.

    It's fake news though, isn't it? There is no 'bail out'. The Treasury won't be getting what it would have been but it's still not paying the operators. It's a politically motivated campaign that not only has little to do with the facts but openly eschews them.
    I suppose they should have said Private Sector again fail to honour signed contract on East Coast main line.So now Virgin GNER and Stagecoach renege.They could have left it in the public sector as it was between 2009 to 15.
    They are breaking the contract, or is it being ended early under provisions laid out in the contract?
    I believe it was terminated 3 years early .As the contractor was on the brink of handing it back to the government.
    But within the terms of the contract? If so, not sure how they failed to honour it....
  • Options

    Parkinson's Law long ago predicted as a joke that Britain would eventually have more admirals than ships. This came true in 2008.

    As the late-and-lamented Pin-striped Civil Servant (RN 1-Star) would probably have said: 'Do you really want an over-paid pensions-lawyer as your Defence-Attache to DC or Moscow?'. Pull-your-socks-up!
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited December 2017

    Pub game.

    Though I do admire the mathematical ability of the players.
    It ain't Christmas in Chez Urquhart without the Darts, World's Strongest Man and of course another viewing of THE Christmas movie, Die Hard.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,125

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:


    .
    There is another side to it, in that in a small armed forces with long commissions and long service in technical ranks, there needs to be a possibility of career progression. Hence the high numbers of admirals. Perhaps we need to bring back Admirals of the Yellow.

    Or, alternatively, some of the existing admirals who aren't of the highest quality could be pensioned off.
    The problem, as with our surplus generals, is that these are people of very high quality indeed but we don't have the ships, the men, or the tanks to give them a purpose.

    My first reservations about Hammond came from his time at the MoD. He sorted out a truly horrendous and chaotic order book which was overspent and costing billions in delayed costs (way over £1.5bn on the carriers alone) but he did nothing about the structure of the forces themselves other than the traditional cheese paring which simply reduces effectiveness. We really need a properly competent SoS for Defence. Williamson is very unlikely to be it.
    They may well be of very high quality indeed. But they are literally redundant. Perhaps they could be reskilled in different government departments.

    One of the few favours that Brexit might have done Britain is to force it to realise that it simply can't afford to strut on the world stage in the way that it once did. If it is going to blow all its money on pursuing Brexit, defence is going to have to be one of the areas for savings.
    Not savings but better use of our money is definitely required. I agree that the senior staff are redundant but too much of our defence budget is spent having highly qualified and expensive people going to NATO conferences and the like playing with virtual armies and navies.

    Outside the EU it seems to me that there is a bigger risk that our interests may differ from those of the EU and that we might have a greater need to act independently. This is likely to require an increase in the defence budget, not a cut.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    twitter.com/OfficialPDC/status/945960511719473153

    Pub game.

    Though I do admire the mathematical ability of the players.
    It ain't Christmas in Chez Urquhart without the Darts, World's Strongest Man and of course another viewing of THE Christmas movie, Die Hard.
    I think we can all guess what the snack of choice is... :D
  • Options
    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    edited December 2017
    RobD said:

    Yorkcity said:

    RobD said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Yorkcity said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/dec/27/campaign-launched-return-east-coast-rail-public-ownership Private Sector bail out on East Coast line yet again..No wonder many people think it should be returned to public ownership.

    It's fake news though, isn't it? There is no 'bail out'. The Treasury won't be getting what it would have been but it's still not paying the operators. It's a politically motivated campaign that not only has little to do with the facts but openly eschews them.
    I suppose they should have said Private Sector again fail to honour signed contract on East Coast main line.So now Virgin GNER and Stagecoach renege.They could have left it in the public sector as it was between 2009 to 15.
    They are breaking the contract, or is it being ended early under provisions laid out in the contract?
    I believe it was terminated 3 years early .As the contractor was on the brink of handing it back to the government.
    But within the terms of the contract? If so, not sure how they failed to honour it....
    Are you a contract lawyer ? It looks like they were about to hand it back , so the government stepped in to stop them.Handing it back would break it.
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Osborne 'I was too partisan over referendum to run for leadership.' He also says he did not want to spend his 'time and effort on a project that I didn't believe in.'

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/26/partisan-brexit-become-tory-leader-says-george-osborne/

    Interestingly Osborne has also refused to rule out a future run for London Mayor, which suggests he sees City Hall rather than Westminster and Downing Street as where his future lies if he does return to the political arena. That is probably wise given his socially liberal and pro EU views are probably more suited to the capital than the country as a whole and he could also use his editorship of the Evening Standard as a platform for a future mayoral run
    And in other news I don't rule out becoming England cricket captain or England football manager.

    George Osborne was booed at the London Paralympics.

    Since then his popularity has fallen even further and London become even more unlikely to elect a sterotypical ToryBoy.
    And specifically London has very large numbers of young graduates and renters.

    As his political strategy involved student debts and house prices rising at well above inflation rates London has probably the highest number of people who have been financially crippled by George Osborne.
    Unless Osborne is just trolling the Tory leadership (not something I'm willing to rule out, based on his past exploits), expectation of any return to politics, and especially London politics, suggests to me that he doesn't have the necessary self awareness....

    I reckon anyone with a red rosette would beat Osborne in London.

    I disagree. While I would certainly oppose a return by Osborne to national politics in London politics, where there is a higher upper middle class, pro EU and liberal vote he would be ideally suited. Next time may be an election too early but 2024, say with an unpopular Corbyn government, would be ideally suited for a centrist Tory to win the party's mayoral nomination and the Mayoralty
    You keep reciting your mantras.

    And ignoring the fact that London has very large numbers of young graduates and renters.

    Now what do you think Osborne's electability is among those groups.
  • Options
    DavidL said:


    I would be more interested in a politician who thought that an army of 80k doesn't require more than 1 general and that a Navy of about 17 ships probably doesn't require an admiral at all. There is so much to do in focussing the limited resources of the forces to the sharp end. Maybe if the focus was on that and the squaddies got decent pay and housing along with the admittedly excellent training they currently get recruitment would be less of an issue.

    Current Navy strength is about 70 Vessels.

    6 Guided Missile Destroyers,
    13 Frigates
    1 Aircraft Carrier
    13 Minesweepers
    4 BM Submarines
    6 Fleet Submarines
    21 Patrol Vessels.
  • Options
    Ooh,

    No more late nor lost (unlike some pension-lawyers)!

    https://thinpinstripedline.blogspot.co.uk/
  • Options
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:


    .
    There is another side to it, in that in a small armed forces with long commissions and long service in technical ranks, there needs to be a possibility of career progression. Hence the high numbers of admirals. Perhaps we need to bring back Admirals of the Yellow.

    Or, alternatively, some of the existing admirals who aren't of the highest quality could be pensioned off.
    The problem, as with our surplus generals, is that these are people of very high quality indeed but we don't have the ships, the men, or the tanks to give them a purpose.

    My first reservations about Hammond came from his time at the MoD. He sorted out a truly horrendous and chaotic order book which was overspent and costing billions in delayed costs (way over £1.5bn on the carriers alone) but he did nothing about the structure of the forces themselves other than the traditional cheese paring which simply reduces effectiveness. We really need a properly competent SoS for Defence. Williamson is very unlikely to be it.
    They may well be of very high quality indeed. But they are literally redundant. Perhaps they could be reskilled in different government departments.

    One of the few favours that Brexit might have done Britain is to force it to realise that it simply can't afford to strut on the world stage in the way that it once did. If it is going to blow all its money on pursuing Brexit, defence is going to have to be one of the areas for savings.
    Not savings but better use of our money is definitely required. I agree that the senior staff are redundant but too much of our defence budget is spent having highly qualified and expensive people going to NATO conferences and the like playing with virtual armies and navies.

    Outside the EU it seems to me that there is a bigger risk that our interests may differ from those of the EU and that we might have a greater need to act independently. This is likely to require an increase in the defence budget, not a cut.
    One of the most idiotic concepts in the last few decades was the idea of the 'peace dividend' whereby the end of the Cold War would make the world safer and so reduce the need for our military forces. Anyone with half a brain cell (so excluding all of our politicians) should have been able to see that ending the Cold War Balance would be likely to cause more wars rather then fewer and make the whole world a less stable place.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    Yorkcity said:

    RobD said:

    Yorkcity said:

    RobD said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Yorkcity said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/dec/27/campaign-launched-return-east-coast-rail-public-ownership Private Sector bail out on East Coast line yet again..No wonder many people think it should be returned to public ownership.

    It's fake news though, isn't it? There is no 'bail out'. The Treasury won't be getting what it would have been but it's still not paying the operators. It's a politically motivated campaign that not only has little to do with the facts but openly eschews them.
    I suppose they should have said Private Sector again fail to honour signed contract on East Coast main line.So now Virgin GNER and Stagecoach renege.They could have left it in the public sector as it was between 2009 to 15.
    They are breaking the contract, or is it being ended early under provisions laid out in the contract?
    I believe it was terminated 3 years early .As the contractor was on the brink of handing it back to the government.
    But within the terms of the contract? If so, not sure how they failed to honour it....
    Are you a contract lawyer ? It looks like they were about to hand it back , so the government stepped in to stop them.Handing it back would break it.
    Don’t most contracts have an early termination clause?
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,811

    DavidL said:


    I would be more interested in a politician who thought that an army of 80k doesn't require more than 1 general and that a Navy of about 17 ships probably doesn't require an admiral at all. There is so much to do in focussing the limited resources of the forces to the sharp end. Maybe if the focus was on that and the squaddies got decent pay and housing along with the admittedly excellent training they currently get recruitment would be less of an issue.

    Current Navy strength is about 70 Vessels.

    6 Guided Missile Destroyers,
    13 Frigates
    1 Aircraft Carrier
    13 Minesweepers
    4 BM Submarines
    6 Fleet Submarines
    21 Patrol Vessels.
    the 6 guided missile destroyers are all in the knackers yard so not much point counting them , an aircraft carrier with no aircraft ditto , patrol vessels LOL, so we have a handful of submarines and some frigates/minesweepers. Given we have 41 admirals that is almost one per ship given the amount of out of action ones stuck in port. You could not make it up.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,811

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:


    .


    Or, alternatively, some of the existing admirals who aren't of the highest quality could be pensioned off.
    They may well be of very high quality indeed. But they are literally redundant. Perhaps they could be reskilled in different government departments.

    One of the few favours that Brexit might have done Britain is to force it to realise that it simply can't afford to strut on the world stage in the way that it once did. If it is going to blow all its money on pursuing Brexit, defence is going to have to be one of the areas for savings.
    Not savings but better use of our money is definitely required. I agree that the senior staff are redundant but too much of our defence budget is spent having highly qualified and expensive people going to NATO conferences and the like playing with virtual armies and navies.

    Outside the EU it seems to me that there is a bigger risk that our interests may differ from those of the EU and that we might have a greater need to act independently. This is likely to require an increase in the defence budget, not a cut.
    One of the most idiotic concepts in the last few decades was the idea of the 'peace dividend' whereby the end of the Cold War would make the world safer and so reduce the need for our military forces. Anyone with half a brain cell (so excluding all of our politicians) should have been able to see that ending the Cold War Balance would be likely to cause more wars rather then fewer and make the whole world a less stable place.
    If we had avoided illegal wars since the end of the cold war we could have managed fine with Dads Army.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,606

    DavidL said:


    I would be more interested in a politician who thought that an army of 80k doesn't require more than 1 general and that a Navy of about 17 ships probably doesn't require an admiral at all. There is so much to do in focussing the limited resources of the forces to the sharp end. Maybe if the focus was on that and the squaddies got decent pay and housing along with the admittedly excellent training they currently get recruitment would be less of an issue.

    Current Navy strength is about 70 Vessels.

    6 Guided Missile Destroyers,
    13 Frigates
    1 Aircraft Carrier
    13 Minesweepers
    4 BM Submarines
    6 Fleet Submarines
    21 Patrol Vessels.
    How many of those actually work, though?
  • Options
    No wonder the scousers get given a hard-time:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-42494944

    The tail-of-the-tale says it all: He was a standby for England's 2014 World Cup squad, but has only played once for Liverpool this season and spent last season on loan at Burnley after a 20-month injury lay off.

    I blame the Percy family....
  • Options
    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    RobD said:

    Yorkcity said:

    RobD said:

    Yorkcity said:

    RobD said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Yorkcity said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/dec/27/campaign-launched-return-east-coast-rail-public-ownership Private Sector bail out on East Coast line yet again..No wonder many people think it should be returned to public ownership.

    It's fake news though, isn't it? There is no 'bail out'. The Treasury won't be getting what it would have been but it's still not paying the operators. It's a politically motivated campaign that not only has little to do with the facts but openly eschews them.
    I suppose they should have said Private Sector again fail to honour signed contract on East Coast main line.So now Virgin GNER and Stagecoach renege.They could have left it in the public sector as it was between 2009 to 15.
    They are breaking the contract, or is it being ended early under provisions laid out in the contract?
    I believe it was terminated 3 years early .As the contractor was on the brink of handing it back to the government.
    But within the terms of the contract? If so, not sure how they failed to honour it....
    Are you a contract lawyer ? It looks like they were about to hand it back , so the government stepped in to stop them.Handing it back would break it.
    Don’t most contracts have an early termination clause?
    Not that I am aware on this contract .Have you information saying they could terminate 3 years early and hand back to the government ?
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    malcolmg said:

    the 6 guided missile destroyers are all in the knackers yard so not much point counting them , an aircraft carrier with no aircraft ditto , patrol vessels LOL, so we have a handful of submarines and some frigates/minesweepers. Given we have 41 admirals that is almost one per ship given the amount of out of action ones stuck in port. You could not make it up.

    Most of the broken-kit was built in-or-around Ayrshire. Think upon that unckie-clown.

    [New English subs do not appear to like Scotland either.]
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,940

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Osborne 'I was too partisan over referendum to run for leadership.' He also says he did not want to spend his 'time and effort on a project that I didn't believe in.'

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/26/partisan-brexit-become-tory-leader-says-george-osborne/

    Interestingly Osborne has also refused to rule out a future run for London Mayor, which suggests he sees City Hall rather than Westminster and Downing Street as where his future lies if he does return to the political arena. That is probably wise given his socially liberal and pro EU views are probably more suited to the capital than the country as a whole and he could also use his editorship of the Evening Standard as a platform for a future mayoral run
    And in other news I don't rule out becoming England cricket captain or England football manager.

    George Osborne was booed at the London Paralympics.

    Since then his popularity has fallen even further and London become even more unlikely to elect a sterotypical ToryBoy.
    And specifically London has very large numbers of young graduates and renters.

    As his political strategy involved student debts and house prices rising at well above inflation rates London has probably the highest number of people who have been financially crippled by George Osborne.
    Unless Osborne is just trolling the Tory leadership (not something I'm willing to rule out, based on his past exploits), expectation of any return to politics, and especially London politics, suggests to me that he doesn't have the necessary self awareness....

    I reckon anyone with a red rosette would beat Osborne in London.

    I disagree. While I would certainly oppose a return by Osborne to national politics in London politics, where there is a higher upper middle class, pro EU and liberal vote he would be ideally suited. Next time may be an election too early but 2024, say with an unpopular Corbyn government, would be ideally suited for a centrist Tory to win the party's mayoral nomination and the Mayoralty
    You keep reciting your mantras.

    And ignoring the fact that London has very large numbers of young graduates and renters.

    Now what do you think Osborne's electability is among those groups.
    Amongst young graduates who are very pro Remain probably higher than the average Tory.

    By 2024 when we may well be in midterm of an unpopular Corbyn government the Tory candidate for London Mayor could well have a very strong chance.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,354
    HYUFD said:



    At least O'Mara's had a job where he must deal with cash flow, VAT, etc. Highly unusual for Labour MPs who appear to have zero knowledge of SMEs and the self-employed. Have any other Labour MPs ever seen a VAT return?!

    I'd say give him a chance but 6 months ought to be time for progress ... and a maiden speech!

    I agree, though I suspect there may be a health issue. On your other point, I've run two successful small businesses - still running one as a second job, in fact. But SME experience was thin on the ground on both sides of the House - Tory experience was very centred on the City (even experiuence of larger non-financial businesses was rare, don't know if that's changed), Labour on teaching and other public sector work.
    There was Archie Norman, former Asda chairman of course but now I think a plurality of Tories have a business background and in marginal seats I expect a significant number have SME experience. It trends to be when the Tories are in opposition and most Tory MPs tend to be from safe seats their background tends to be focused on the Bar, the City or professional SPAD
    There is also the Chief Sec to the Treasury:
    http://melstridemp.com/Biog.aspx
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,981
    DavidL said:


    I would be more interested in a politician who thought that an army of 80k doesn't require more than 1 general and that a Navy of about 17 ships probably doesn't require an admiral at all. There is so much to do in focussing the limited resources of the forces to the sharp end. Maybe if the focus was on that and the squaddies got decent pay and housing along with the admittedly excellent training they currently get recruitment would be less of an issue.

    The training is "excellent" in few places and utter shit far more often than the average civvie would imagine. On my first day at BRNC I got a hand written letter from the R Adm FAA that said something along the lines of "your training will be of uneven quality and will only partially prepare you for the challenges ahead." Although he did go on to say "one day you will fly off a ship over a faraway sea and marvel that anyone would pay you to do it".
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,811

    malcolmg said:

    the 6 guided missile destroyers are all in the knackers yard so not much point counting them , an aircraft carrier with no aircraft ditto , patrol vessels LOL, so we have a handful of submarines and some frigates/minesweepers. Given we have 41 admirals that is almost one per ship given the amount of out of action ones stuck in port. You could not make it up.

    Most of the broken-kit was built in-or-around Ayrshire. Think upon that unckie-clown.

    [New English subs do not appear to like Scotland either.]
    The Little Englanders cannot help themselves, what clowns designed the piles of merde, you cannot blame the assemblers for crap design.
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    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:


    And in other news I don't rule out becoming England cricket captain or England football manager.

    George Osborne was booed at the London Paralympics.

    Since then his popularity has fallen even further and London become even more unlikely to elect a sterotypical ToryBoy.

    And specifically London has very large numbers of young graduates and renters.

    As his political strategy involved student debts and house prices rising at well above inflation rates London has probably the highest number of people who have been financially crippled by George Osborne.
    Unless Osborne is just trolling the Tory leadership (not something I'm willing to rule out, based on his past exploits), expectation of any return to politics, and especially London politics, suggests to me that he doesn't have the necessary self awareness....

    I reckon anyone with a red rosette would beat Osborne in London.

    I disagree. While I would certainly oppose a return by Osborne to national politics in London politics, where there is a higher upper middle class, pro EU and liberal vote he would be ideally suited. Next time may be an election too early but 2024, say with an unpopular Corbyn government, would be ideally suited for a centrist Tory to win the party's mayoral nomination and the Mayoralty
    You keep reciting your mantras.

    And ignoring the fact that London has very large numbers of young graduates and renters.

    Now what do you think Osborne's electability is among those groups.
    Amongst young graduates who are very pro Remain probably higher than the average Tory.

    By 2024 when we may well be in midterm of an unpopular Corbyn government the Tory candidate for London Mayor could well have a very strong chance.
    I would have hoped you had learned from six months ago when you kept claiming that restricitng WFA was going to be a vote winner. But it seems not.

    Osborne, let me remind you, is the man who kept increasing student fees, who set an interest rate of RPI+3%, who froze the repayment threshold. He is also the man who continually promoted house prices rising faster than wages. He is utterly toxic to young graduates and renters.
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    RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    Hyfud posted this earlier without comment, but for lovers of politics it is quite nice demonstration of Heseltine's skill. He manages to advise people to vote Labour without saying so. He could have, indeed should have, been thrown out of the party if he had worded what he said with a bit less care.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/26/a-labour-government-wouldnt-be-as-bad-as-brexit-claims-heseltine

  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,981
    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:


    I would be more interested in a politician who thought that an army of 80k doesn't require more than 1 general and that a Navy of about 17 ships probably doesn't require an admiral at all. There is so much to do in focussing the limited resources of the forces to the sharp end. Maybe if the focus was on that and the squaddies got decent pay and housing along with the admittedly excellent training they currently get recruitment would be less of an issue.

    Current Navy strength is about 70 Vessels.

    6 Guided Missile Destroyers,
    13 Frigates
    1 Aircraft Carrier
    13 Minesweepers
    4 BM Submarines
    6 Fleet Submarines
    21 Patrol Vessels.
    How many of those actually work, though?
    The RN has, at the moment, ONE surface combatant vessel capable of operations outside home waters. The constraints are more related to lack of crew rather than technical readiness. (As dire as the technical situation is.)
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,811

    malcolmg said:

    the 6 guided missile destroyers are all in the knackers yard so not much point counting them , an aircraft carrier with no aircraft ditto , patrol vessels LOL, so we have a handful of submarines and some frigates/minesweepers. Given we have 41 admirals that is almost one per ship given the amount of out of action ones stuck in port. You could not make it up.

    Most of the broken-kit was built in-or-around Ayrshire. Think upon that unckie-clown.

    [New English subs do not appear to like Scotland either.]
    Just to educate you fluffer, no sign of Scotland anywhere in attached........
    Developed with government funding input from the UK, France and the United States, the WR-21 was designed and manufactured by an international consortium led by Northrop Grumman as prime contractor.[1] The turbine itself was designed primarily by Rolls-Royce with significant marine engineering and test facility input from DCN, with Northrop Grumman responsible for the intercooler, the recuperator and system integration.[1][2]

    WR-21 development draws heavily on the technology of the successful Rolls-Royce RB211 and Trent families of gas turbines.[3]

    The original design and development of the WR-21 was carried out by Westinghouse Electric Corporation (later Northrop Grumman Marine Systems) under a U.S. Navy contract placed in December 1991
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,811
    Dura_Ace said:

    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:


    I would be more interested in a politician who thought that an army of 80k doesn't require more than 1 general and that a Navy of about 17 ships probably doesn't require an admiral at all. There is so much to do in focussing the limited resources of the forces to the sharp end. Maybe if the focus was on that and the squaddies got decent pay and housing along with the admittedly excellent training they currently get recruitment would be less of an issue.

    Current Navy strength is about 70 Vessels.

    6 Guided Missile Destroyers,
    13 Frigates
    1 Aircraft Carrier
    13 Minesweepers
    4 BM Submarines
    6 Fleet Submarines
    21 Patrol Vessels.
    How many of those actually work, though?
    The RN has, at the moment, ONE surface combatant vessel capable of operations outside home waters. The constraints are more related to lack of crew rather than technical readiness. (As dire as the technical situation is.)
    They have enough admirals to crew a ship
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited December 2017
    When the Robots take over, they can now sound identical to humans...

    https://qz.com/1165775/googles-voice-generating-ai-is-now-indistinguishable-from-humans/
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,940
    edited December 2017

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:


    And in other news I don't rule out becoming England cricket captain or England football manager.

    George Osborne was booed at the London Paralympics.

    Since then his popularity has fallen even further and London become even more unlikely to elect a sterotypical ToryBoy.

    And specifically London has very large numbers of young graduates and renters.

    As his political strategy involved student debts and house prices rising at well above inflation rates London has probably the highest number of people who have been financially crippled by George Osborne.
    Unless Osborne is just trolling the Tory leadership (not something I'm willing to rule out, based on his past exploits), expectation of any return to politics, and especially London politics, suggests to me that he doesn't have the necessary self awareness....

    I reckon anyone with a red rosette would beat Osborne in London.

    I disagree. While I would certainly oppose a return by Osborne to national politics in London politics, where there is a higher upper middle class, pro EU and liberal vote he would be ideally suited. Next time may be an election too early but 2024, say with an unpopular Corbyn government, would be ideally suited for a centrist Tory to win the party's mayoral nomination and the Mayoralty
    You keep reciting your mantras.

    And ignoring the fact that London has very large numbers of young graduates and renters.

    Now what do you think Osborne's electability is among those groups.
    Amongst young graduates who are very pro Remain probably higher than the average Tory.

    By 2024 when we may well be in midterm of an unpopular Corbyn government the Tory candidate for London Mayor could well have a very strong chance.
    I would have hoped you had learned from six months ago when you kept claiming that restricitng WFA was going to be a vote winner. But it seems not.

    Osborne, let me remind you, is the man who kept increasing student fees, who set an interest rate of RPI+3%, who froze the repayment threshold. He is also the man who continually promoted house prices rising faster than wages. He is utterly toxic to young graduates and renters.
    Given the Tories won a higher voteshare with over 65s in 2017 than they had in 2015 the impact of WFA proposals was negligible.

    With Osborne as Chancellor by contrast the Tories did better with young people in 2015 than in 2017 plus of course in 2024 he may well benefit from a midterm protest vote against a Corbyn government and a Khan Mayoralty in office for 8 years
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,940

    Hyfud posted this earlier without comment, but for lovers of politics it is quite nice demonstration of Heseltine's skill. He manages to advise people to vote Labour without saying so. He could have, indeed should have, been thrown out of the party if he had worded what he said with a bit less care.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/26/a-labour-government-wouldnt-be-as-bad-as-brexit-claims-heseltine

    As a former National Liberal I expect he would prefer they voted LD, he was just saying Brexit would be worse than Corbyn. Though if he advocated expressly either a Labour or LD vote he could be thrown out of the Tories yes
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    Seems iPhone X's are going down about as well as the new Star Wars Movie...

    Analysts Cut iPhone X Shipment Forecasts, Citing Lukewarm Demand

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-25/analysts-cut-iphone-x-shipment-forecasts-citing-lukewarm-demand
  • Options

    Seems iPhone X's are going down about as well as the new Star Wars Movie...

    Analysts Cut iPhone X Shipment Forecasts, Citing Lukewarm Demand

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-25/analysts-cut-iphone-x-shipment-forecasts-citing-lukewarm-demand

    Fake News from failing Bloomberg. Sad.

    It just makes the X owners rather exclusive.

    Which is how it should be.
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    Rebourne_FluffyRebourne_Fluffy Posts: 225
    edited December 2017
    malcolmg said:

    Just to educate you fluffer, no sign of Scotland anywhere in attached........
    Developed with government funding input from the UK, France and the United States, the WR-21 was designed and manufactured by an international consortium led by Northrop Grumman as prime contractor.[1] The turbine itself was designed primarily by Rolls-Royce with significant marine engineering and test facility input from DCN, with Northrop Grumman responsible for the intercooler, the recuperator and system integration.[1][2]

    WR-21 development draws heavily on the technology of the successful Rolls-Royce RB211 and Trent families of gas turbines.[3]

    The original design and development of the WR-21 was carried out by Westinghouse Electric Corporation (later Northrop Grumman Marine Systems) under a U.S. Navy contract placed in December 1991

    Oh dear,

    We all know the Northrop-Grumman faux-pauxed (so please keep-up). Currently the propulsion system - Dragon [?] and QE - are not the issue. Do your own research and stop wasting pixels (thank-you-very-much).
  • Options
    RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,976

    Seems iPhone X's are going down about as well as the new Star Wars Movie...

    Analysts Cut iPhone X Shipment Forecasts, Citing Lukewarm Demand

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-25/analysts-cut-iphone-x-shipment-forecasts-citing-lukewarm-demand

    The Samsung galaxy s8 pretty much did everything the iPhone X did at half the price...
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited December 2017

    Seems iPhone X's are going down about as well as the new Star Wars Movie...

    Analysts Cut iPhone X Shipment Forecasts, Citing Lukewarm Demand

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-25/analysts-cut-iphone-x-shipment-forecasts-citing-lukewarm-demand

    The Samsung galaxy s8 pretty much did everything the iPhone X did at half the price...
    Sshhhhh....Do you want to get banned? All the Apple fan boys were dead excited by wireless charging....you know that thing that has been available for 2 years from other manufacturers.
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    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:


    .


    Or, alternatively, some of the existing admirals who aren't of the highest quality could be pensioned off.
    They may well be of very high quality indeed. But they are literally redundant. Perhaps they could be reskilled in different government departments.

    One of the few favours that Brexit might have done Britain is to force it to realise that it simply can't afford to strut on the world stage in the way that it once did. If it is going to blow all its money on pursuing Brexit, defence is going to have to be one of the areas for savings.
    Not savings but better use of our money is definitely required. I agree that the senior staff are redundant but too much of our defence budget is spent having highly qualified and expensive people going to NATO conferences and the like playing with virtual armies and navies.

    Outside the EU it seems to me that there is a bigger risk that our interests may differ from those of the EU and that we might have a greater need to act independently. This is likely to require an increase in the defence budget, not a cut.
    One of the most idiotic concepts in the last few decades was the idea of the 'peace dividend' whereby the end of the Cold War would make the world safer and so reduce the need for our military forces. Anyone with half a brain cell (so excluding all of our politicians) should have been able to see that ending the Cold War Balance would be likely to cause more wars rather then fewer and make the whole world a less stable place.
    If we had avoided illegal wars since the end of the cold war we could have managed fine with Dads Army.
    I wasn't talking about our involvement directly. I was talking about the world being a less safe place. Like I said, only an idiot would have thought that removing the balance of power would reduce small wars around the world.
  • Options

    Seems iPhone X's are going down about as well as the new Star Wars Movie...

    Analysts Cut iPhone X Shipment Forecasts, Citing Lukewarm Demand

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-25/analysts-cut-iphone-x-shipment-forecasts-citing-lukewarm-demand

    The Samsung galaxy s8 pretty much did everything the iPhone X did at half the price...
    Does it have Face recognition?
  • Options
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Ah, the story of an evil empire losing its sway is once again top of PB's topics. Must say, I don't really get the devotion to Apple, but there we are.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited December 2017

    Seems iPhone X's are going down about as well as the new Star Wars Movie...

    Analysts Cut iPhone X Shipment Forecasts, Citing Lukewarm Demand

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-25/analysts-cut-iphone-x-shipment-forecasts-citing-lukewarm-demand

    The Samsung galaxy s8 pretty much did everything the iPhone X did at half the price...
    Does it have Face recognition?
    Well the iPhone X doesn't either....it thinks all Chinese people look identical. The Bernard Manning of phones.
  • Options
    RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,976

    Seems iPhone X's are going down about as well as the new Star Wars Movie...

    Analysts Cut iPhone X Shipment Forecasts, Citing Lukewarm Demand

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-25/analysts-cut-iphone-x-shipment-forecasts-citing-lukewarm-demand

    The Samsung galaxy s8 pretty much did everything the iPhone X did at half the price...
    Does it have Face recognition?
    Ahah...I did say "pretty much". It does sort of compensate with its iris scanner and face shape recognition.
This discussion has been closed.