Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The big one: Cyclefree announces her Political Awards for 2017

124»

Comments

  • Options
    Yup

    image
  • Options

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Ah, the story of an evil empire losing its sway is once again top of PB's topics. Must say, I don't really get the devotion to Apple, but there we are.

    Apples have changed human history.

    1) The apple that Adam and Eve ate

    2) The apple that landed on the head of the most intelligent man in human history and Cambridge University alumnus Isaac Newton

    3) The apple that Steve Jobs founded.
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Seems iPhone X's are going down about as well as the new Star Wars Movie...

    Analysts Cut iPhone X Shipment Forecasts, Citing Lukewarm Demand

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-25/analysts-cut-iphone-x-shipment-forecasts-citing-lukewarm-demand

    The Samsung galaxy s8 pretty much did everything the iPhone X did at half the price...
    Does it have Face recognition?
    Ahah...I did say "pretty much". It does sort of compensate with its iris scanner and face shape recognition.
    There was face recognition on the last but one version of the very mid-market moto g. It worked fine, but it's pretty unexciting stuff.
  • Options
    Mr. Eagles, rather like Archimedes myself. Kept the siege of Syracuse going by sheer dint of his inventive genius.
  • Options
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Seems iPhone X's are going down about as well as the new Star Wars Movie...

    Analysts Cut iPhone X Shipment Forecasts, Citing Lukewarm Demand

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-25/analysts-cut-iphone-x-shipment-forecasts-citing-lukewarm-demand

    The Samsung galaxy s8 pretty much did everything the iPhone X did at half the price...
    Does it have Face recognition?
    Ahah...I did say "pretty much". It does sort of compensate with its iris scanner and face shape recognition.
    There was face recognition on the last but one version of the very mid-market moto g. It worked fine, but it's pretty unexciting stuff.
    I don’t trust Samsung.

    They make phones that blow up.
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Ah, the story of an evil empire losing its sway is once again top of PB's topics. Must say, I don't really get the devotion to Apple, but there we are.

    Apples have changed human history.

    1) The apple that Adam and Eve ate

    2) The apple that landed on the head of the most intelligent man in human history and Cambridge University alumnus Isaac Newton

    3) The apple that Steve Jobs founded.
    4) The apple Alan Turing ate (possibly the same as 3).

    5) The apple which started the Trojan War.
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Seems iPhone X's are going down about as well as the new Star Wars Movie...

    Analysts Cut iPhone X Shipment Forecasts, Citing Lukewarm Demand

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-25/analysts-cut-iphone-x-shipment-forecasts-citing-lukewarm-demand

    The Samsung galaxy s8 pretty much did everything the iPhone X did at half the price...
    Does it have Face recognition?
    Ahah...I did say "pretty much". It does sort of compensate with its iris scanner and face shape recognition.
    There was face recognition on the last but one version of the very mid-market moto g. It worked fine, but it's pretty unexciting stuff.
    I don’t trust Samsung.

    They make phones that blow up.
    moto g = motorola not samsung.
  • Options
    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:


    .


    Or, alternatively, some of the existing admirals who aren't of the highest quality could be pensioned off.
    They may well be of very high quality indeed. But they are literally redundant. Perhaps they could be reskilled in different government departments.

    One of the few favours that Brexit might have done Britain is to force it to realise that it simply can't afford to strut on the world stage in the way that it once did. If it is going to blow all its money on pursuing Brexit, defence is going to have to be one of the areas for savings.
    Not savings but better use of our money is definitely required. I agree that the senior staff are redundant but too much of our defence budget is spent having highly qualified and expensive people going to NATO conferences and the like playing with virtual armies and navies.

    Outside the EU it seems to me that there is a bigger risk that our interests may differ from those of the EU and that we might have a greater need to act independently. This is likely to require an increase in the defence budget, not a cut.
    One of the most idiotic concepts in the last few decades was the idea of the 'peace dividend' whereby the end of the Cold War would make the world safer and so reduce the need for our military forces. Anyone with half a brain cell (so excluding all of our politicians) should have been able to see that ending the Cold War Balance would be likely to cause more wars rather then fewer and make the whole world a less stable place.
    If we had avoided illegal wars since the end of the cold war we could have managed fine with Dads Army.
    I wasn't talking about our involvement directly. I was talking about the world being a less safe place. Like I said, only an idiot would have thought that removing the balance of power would reduce small wars around the world.
    Many thought there would be a peace dividend at the time.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,977
    edited December 2017
    Why must ‘THEY’ mess about with things like that?
  • Options
    AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900


    Sshhhhh....Do you want to get banned? All the Apple fan boys were dead excited by wireless charging....you know that thing that has been available for 2 years from other manufacturers.

    Lot longer - my Nexus 4 in 2012 had it, and it wasn't a new invention even then.

  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,505
    edited December 2017
    ydoethur said:

    One of the things I do admire about the Labour left - and I think it is known on this forum that I am not their greatest fan (!) is their commitment. Until fairly recently Dennis Skinner, for example, had the best attendance of any MP in the Commons, because he genuinely believes that as an MP it is his duty to be present representing his constituents. This seems to have dipped recently, down to 83%, but given he is now 85 that is perhaps understandable. Corbyn has also I believe always been assiduous in parliamentary duties. It is further worth noting that both of these also had very low expenses claims - Corbyn is off course fairly well-off and a London MP, but neither point applies to Skinner. As a teacher, if I can stand, I go in. I have not taken a single day's absence since qualifying. While my job is tough, so is an MP's, so I have respect for those who treat their job with that level of professionalism especially since, unlike me, it doesn't cause chaos if they take a day off to recuperate.

    One reason why I expect Corbynism to burn out post-Corbyn is because even allowing for his faults the next generation of lefties are truly pathetic and not worth the effort of voting for (OK, I know Coad is old but O'Mara, Pidcock, Smith, Long-Bailey - they are young). Not, it should be said, that the other parties are better.

    As a 3-decade constituent of Skinner, I think he comes into the heading "Ass with a Red Rosette", and reports I have heard from people needing his help have found him more focused on his own obsessions. Perhaps others have found different there.

    It is not far off 30 years since wheelchair users at the London mainline-station in Skinner's constituency have been required to travel 20 miles to Nottingham or Chesterfield to cross to the other platform. If he is all he is supposed to have been that would have been sorted; it hasn't been.

    Corbyn has 30 years spent significantly as a useful idiot for anyone who needs a useful idiot - read his EDMs. AFAICS he is still continuing the tradition.

    In that context, an outstanding box-ticking attendance record and a few semi-witty heckles means very little. Some of the people who like him should try having a character from Last of the Summer Wine as their MP.

  • Options
    Yorkcity said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:


    .


    Or, alternatively, some of the existing admirals who aren't of the highest quality could be pensioned off.
    They may well be of very high quality indeed. But they are literally redundant. Perhaps they could be reskilled in different government departments.

    One of the few favours that Brexit might have done Britain is to force it to realise that it simply can't afford to strut on the world stage in the way that it once did. If it is going to blow all its money on pursuing Brexit, defence is going to have to be one of the areas for savings.
    Not savings but better use of our money is definitely required. I agree that the senior staff are redundant but too much of our defence budget is spent having highly qualified and expensive people going to NATO conferences and the like playing with virtual armies and navies.

    Outside the EU it seems to me that there is a bigger risk that our interests may differ from those of the EU and that we might have a greater need to act independently. This is likely to require an increase in the defence budget, not a cut.
    One of the most idiotic concepts in the last few decades was the idea of the 'peace dividend' whereby the end of the Cold War would make the world safer and so reduce the need for our military forces. Anyone with half a brain cell (so excluding all of our politicians) should have been able to see that ending the Cold War Balance would be likely to cause more wars rather then fewer and make the whole world a less stable place.
    If we had avoided illegal wars since the end of the cold war we could have managed fine with Dads Army.
    I wasn't talking about our involvement directly. I was talking about the world being a less safe place. Like I said, only an idiot would have thought that removing the balance of power would reduce small wars around the world.
    Many thought there would be a peace dividend at the time.
    And many including myself were saying it was a daft idea. It is scary how few people seem to recognise that the balance of power during the Cold War went a long way towards maintaining stability in the world.
  • Options

    Why must ‘THEY’ mess about with things like that?
    Why save Dennis if you're going to take everything unique away from him? It isn't the name, it's the sidekicks, rebranding Walter, changing his relationship with his parents, etc. I feel like they've dodged some interesting questions (e.g. about whether we should feel sorry for Walter) by removing them entirely.
  • Options
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Seems iPhone X's are going down about as well as the new Star Wars Movie...

    Analysts Cut iPhone X Shipment Forecasts, Citing Lukewarm Demand

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-25/analysts-cut-iphone-x-shipment-forecasts-citing-lukewarm-demand

    The Samsung galaxy s8 pretty much did everything the iPhone X did at half the price...
    Does it have Face recognition?
    Ahah...I did say "pretty much". It does sort of compensate with its iris scanner and face shape recognition.
    There was face recognition on the last but one version of the very mid-market moto g. It worked fine, but it's pretty unexciting stuff.
    I don’t trust Samsung.

    They make phones that blow up.
    moto g = motorola not samsung.
    Prior to the iPhone, my favourite ever phone was the Motorola V3.
  • Options
    King Cole, it's pathetic.
  • Options
    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215
    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    One of the things I do admire about the Labour left - and I think it is known on this forum that I am not their greatest fan (!) is their commitment. Until fairly recently Dennis Skinner, for example, had the best attendance of any MP in the Commons, because he genuinely believes that as an MP it is his duty to be present representing his constituents. This seems to have dipped recently, down to 83%, but given he is now 85 that is perhaps understandable. Corbyn has also I believe always been assiduous in parliamentary duties. It is further worth noting that both of these also had very low expenses claims - Corbyn is off course fairly well-off and a London MP, but neither point applies to Skinner. As a teacher, if I can stand, I go in. I have not taken a single day's absence since qualifying. While my job is tough, so is an MP's, so I have respect for those who treat their job with that level of professionalism especially since, unlike me, it doesn't cause chaos if they take a day off to recuperate.

    One reason why I expect Corbynism to burn out post-Corbyn is because even allowing for his faults the next generation of lefties are truly pathetic and not worth the effort of voting for (OK, I know Coad is old but O'Mara, Pidcock, Smith, Long-Bailey - they are young). Not, it should be said, that the other parties are better.

    As a 3-decade constituent of Skinner, I think he comes into the heading "Ass with a Red Rosette", and reports I have heard from people needing his help have found him more focused on his own obsessions. Perhaps others have found different there.

    It is not far off 30 years since wheelchair users at the London mainline-station in Skinner's constituency have been required to travel 20 miles to Nottingham or Chesterfield to cross to the other platform. If he is all he is supposed to have been that would have been sorted; it hasn't been.

    Corbyn has 30 years spent significantly as a useful idiot for anyone who needs a useful idiot - read his EDMs. AFAICS he is still continuing the tradition.

    In that context, an outstanding box-ticking attendance record and a few semi-witty heckles means very little. Some of the people who like him should try having a character from Last of the Summer Wine as their MP.

    Skinner suffered a 7.7% swing against him in June (one of the largest in the country) and his majority at 5,200 is the lowest ever in the constituency (though I haven't checked 1931!).
  • Options
    HHemmeligHHemmelig Posts: 617
    edited December 2017
    I
    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:



    One reason why I expect Corbynism to burn out post-Corbyn is because even allowing for his faults the next generation of lefties are truly pathetic and not worth the effort of voting for (OK, I know Coad is old but O'Mara, Pidcock, Smith, Long-Bailey - they are young). Not, it should be said, that the other parties are better.

    As a 3-decade constituent of Skinner, I think he comes into the heading "Ass with a Red Rosette", and reports I have heard from people needing his help have found him more focused on his own obsessions. Perhaps others have found different there.

    It is not far off 30 years since wheelchair users at the London mainline-station in Skinner's constituency have been required to travel 20 miles to Nottingham or Chesterfield to cross to the other platform. If he is all he is supposed to have been that would have been sorted; it hasn't been.

    Corbyn has 30 years spent significantly as a useful idiot for anyone who needs a useful idiot - read his EDMs. AFAICS he is still continuing the tradition.

    In that context, an outstanding box-ticking attendance record and a few semi-witty heckles means very little. Some of the people who like him should try having mad-grandpa as their MP.

    In the early 90s I wrote to Skinner asking for help with a school project I was doing on pit closures. He wasn't even my MP though we lived in the seat next door (Ashfield). He was extremely kind and helpful to a 16 year old me...though perhaps that was because the topic happened to be his biggest obsession of all.

    My great uncle was a Derbyshire NUM branch delegate for decades and knew Skinner well from when they worked down the same pit together in the 60s and also from the union side of things. He said that Skinner's biggest failing was that his morality was so puritan (ie refusing to accept even the smallest degree of hospitality or promotion) that it sometimes stopped him from being able to make as big a difference as he otherwise could have. But there's little doubt that Skinner is a big-hearted and kind man, at least to those on his own side. About 15 years ago my great uncle was very ill and a few weeks before his death, there was a knock on the door and who was there but Dennis Skinner. They hadn't seen each other or spoken for decades but he'd heard on the grapevine his old friend didn't have long to go and wanted to pop round to say goodbye.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited December 2017
    Israel to name new Jerusalem train station after Donald Trump

    Minister Israel Katz approved a plan on Tuesday to extend a high-speed rail line under construction between Tel Aviv and Jerusalem into the Jewish Quarter of the Old City and build a station next to the Western Wall, a statement said.

    The station close to the holiest site where Jews are permitted to pray will be called "Donald John Trump", the minister ordered, in tribute to his "historic and courageous decision" on Jerusalem.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/27/israel-name-new-jerusalem-train-station-donald-trump/
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,977
    edited December 2017

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Seems iPhone X's are going down about as well as the new Star Wars Movie...

    Analysts Cut iPhone X Shipment Forecasts, Citing Lukewarm Demand

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-25/analysts-cut-iphone-x-shipment-forecasts-citing-lukewarm-demand

    The Samsung galaxy s8 pretty much did everything the iPhone X did at half the price...
    Does it have Face recognition?
    Ahah...I did say "pretty much". It does sort of compensate with its iris scanner and face shape recognition.
    There was face recognition on the last but one version of the very mid-market moto g. It worked fine, but it's pretty unexciting stuff.
    I don’t trust Samsung.

    They make phones that blow up.
    moto g = motorola not samsung.
    Prior to the iPhone, my favourite ever phone was the Motorola V3.
    I had a Nokia Communicator back around the turn of the century, which was built like a brick, but would let me ‘phone, keep a diary and pick up emails and surf the web anywhere where there was a wifi signal.The only trouble was that the hinges..... it folded over to protect the screen... were made of fairly soft metal and easily broke.
    An American on a trip I was on was extolling the virtues of her Blackberry, then looked at the Communicator and wanted one!
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    Yup

    image

    Rarely a more divisive film.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,850

    And many including myself were saying it was a daft idea. It is scary how few people seem to recognise that the balance of power during the Cold War went a long way towards maintaining stability in the world.

    As I wasn't party to your hindsight-encrusted account of your personal prescience and brilliance, I'll just have to take your word for it.

    The collapse of Soviet control of the Eastern Europe in 1989 wasn't widely predicted or expected and for me makes Gorbachev one of the great men of 20th Century history.

    The reaction of the West to the various cans of worms opened by the end of monolithic control from Moscow has, I think, proven to be less than adequate. Indeed, much of what we talk about now politically flows from these events - it's quite possible to argue that Britain's departure from the EU began with the fall of the Berlin Wall.

    The assumption was not of permanent stability or peace but of a unipolar world where the US (and the UN) could intervene in regional and local conflicts. The Gulf War of 1990-91 seemed to show how it might work but the collapse of Yugoslavia (another by-product of 1989) proved how out of date NATO-related strategic thinking had become in a post-Communist world.

    Unfortunately, too many political and strategic people of all shades and stripes saw the future through the prism of the past and didn't understand what had happened, why it had happened and what it meant.

  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,977
    stodge said:

    And many including myself were saying it was a daft idea. It is scary how few people seem to recognise that the balance of power during the Cold War went a long way towards maintaining stability in the world.

    As I wasn't party to your hindsight-encrusted account of your personal prescience and brilliance, I'll just have to take your word for it.

    The collapse of Soviet control of the Eastern Europe in 1989 wasn't widely predicted or expected and for me makes Gorbachev one of the great men of 20th Century history.

    The reaction of the West to the various cans of worms opened by the end of monolithic control from Moscow has, I think, proven to be less than adequate. Indeed, much of what we talk about now politically flows from these events - it's quite possible to argue that Britain's departure from the EU began with the fall of the Berlin Wall.

    The assumption was not of permanent stability or peace but of a unipolar world where the US (and the UN) could intervene in regional and local conflicts. The Gulf War of 1990-91 seemed to show how it might work but the collapse of Yugoslavia (another by-product of 1989) proved how out of date NATO-related strategic thinking had become in a post-Communist world.

    Unfortunately, too many political and strategic people of all shades and stripes saw the future through the prism of the past and didn't understand what had happened, why it had happened and what it meant.

    There’s a post on my Facebook page suggesting that an early domino was the failure, and consequent pull-out, of the Soviet aggression in Afghanistan.
  • Options

    Israel to name new Jerusalem train station after Donald Trump

    Minister Israel Katz approved a plan on Tuesday to extend a high-speed rail line under construction between Tel Aviv and Jerusalem into the Jewish Quarter of the Old City and build a station next to the Western Wall, a statement said.

    The station close to the holiest site where Jews are permitted to pray will be called "Donald John Trump", the minister ordered, in tribute to his "historic and courageous decision" on Jerusalem.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/27/israel-name-new-jerusalem-train-station-donald-trump/

    A characteristically nuanced and sensitive response by the Israelis then.
  • Options
    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    edited December 2017


    Many thought there would be a peace dividend at the time.
    Richard Tyndall
    And many including myself were saying it was a daft idea. It is scary how few people seem to recognise that the balance of power during the Cold War went a long way towards maintaining stability in the world.

    Very true .To some extent it was popularised as a slogan by George HW Bush and M Thatcher.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_dividend
  • Options
    stodge said:

    And many including myself were saying it was a daft idea. It is scary how few people seem to recognise that the balance of power during the Cold War went a long way towards maintaining stability in the world.

    As I wasn't party to your hindsight-encrusted account of your personal prescience and brilliance, I'll just have to take your word for it.

    The collapse of Soviet control of the Eastern Europe in 1989 wasn't widely predicted or expected and for me makes Gorbachev one of the great men of 20th Century history.

    The reaction of the West to the various cans of worms opened by the end of monolithic control from Moscow has, I think, proven to be less than adequate. Indeed, much of what we talk about now politically flows from these events - it's quite possible to argue that Britain's departure from the EU began with the fall of the Berlin Wall.

    The assumption was not of permanent stability or peace but of a unipolar world where the US (and the UN) could intervene in regional and local conflicts. The Gulf War of 1990-91 seemed to show how it might work but the collapse of Yugoslavia (another by-product of 1989) proved how out of date NATO-related strategic thinking had become in a post-Communist world.

    Unfortunately, too many political and strategic people of all shades and stripes saw the future through the prism of the past and didn't understand what had happened, why it had happened and what it meant.

    Oh look. You manage to combine talking bollocks with making claims about something I never said.

    I didn't claim to have anticipated or predicted the collapse of the Soviet Union.
    I didn't say that the collapse was a bad thing.

    It was not hindsight in any way. There were plenty of people who were saying, in the time between the collapse of the Berlin Wall in 1989 and the start of the Balkans War in 1991 that the world had become more dangerous because of the retreat of Soviet power and influence. Unfortunately there were far too many people who saw the future as rosy and were prepared to make political decisions on that basis.

    So before you start making dumb claims, try reading what I wrote first.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,850


    There’s a post on my Facebook page suggesting that an early domino was the failure, and consequent pull-out, of the Soviet aggression in Afghanistan.

    While I'm sure it had been modelled, I can't recall any serious analyst suggesting in early 1989 the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact would be history within 12 months. There was an expectation that the actions of Reagan and Thatcher and the coming of Gorbachev could presage a new era of détente and the USSR might move to a more balanced economy with greater spending on consumer goods.

  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,850


    Oh look. You manage to combine talking bollocks with making claims about something I never said.

    I didn't claim to have anticipated or predicted the collapse of the Soviet Union.
    I didn't say that the collapse was a bad thing.

    It was not hindsight in any way. There were plenty of people who were saying, in the time between the collapse of the Berlin Wall in 1989 and the start of the Balkans War in 1991 that the world had become more dangerous because of the retreat of Soviet power and influence. Unfortunately there were far too many people who saw the future as rosy and were prepared to make political decisions on that basis.

    So before you start making dumb claims, try reading what I wrote first.

    Maybe you shouldn't get so touchy. I didn't infer or imply you predicted the collapse of the USSR either - you were all "as I said at the time", well, we've no evidence you said that on here as this forum didn't exist then.

    Were there "plenty of people suggesting the world had become more dangerous" ? Some, of course, and Margaret Thatcher was sceptical about German re-unification but I don't recall Conservatives, Socialists, Liberals or anyone else suggesting the fall of Communism was anything other than a positive.

    The rapid incorporation of the former Warsaw Pact states into the western military and economic structures seemed well supported at the time and most people seemed fairly happy the idea of a 100-division armoured thrust into the heart of West Germany had receded.

  • Options

    NEW THREAD

  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,333
    MattW said:



    As a 3-decade constituent of Skinner, I think he comes into the heading "Ass with a Red Rosette", and reports I have heard from people needing his help have found him more focused on his own obsessions. Perhaps others have found different there.

    It is not far off 30 years since wheelchair users at the London mainline-station in Skinner's constituency have been required to travel 20 miles to Nottingham or Chesterfield to cross to the other platform. If he is all he is supposed to have been that would have been sorted; it hasn't been.

    Corbyn has 30 years spent significantly as a useful idiot for anyone who needs a useful idiot - read his EDMs. AFAICS he is still continuing the tradition.

    In that context, an outstanding box-ticking attendance record and a few semi-witty heckles means very little. Some of the people who like him should try having a character from Last of the Summer Wine as their MP.

    I can't speak for Skinner's constiuents, but Corbyn's rate him very highly - I've been to a rugery where he went on for 5 hours to ensure that everyone had time to go through their issues. Canvassing for the local elections, I came across several people who were voting Tory though down as Labour - they all explained that "we're Conservatives but we vote for Jeremy as he's so good for our patch" or similar comments.

    Doesn't mean much regarding party leadership, but as you raised it...
  • Options
    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    edited December 2017
    another_Richard and Mortimer are spot on re George Osborne. Osborne is liked among the circle of socially liberal centrists within the Westminster Village. As this demographic appears to make up a significant portion of political journalists in Westminster, at times it may appear that Osborne is more popular than he actually is in London.

    I also thought that TSE’s comments on people who go on buses was very snobbish and wrong. Such an outlook is hardly likely to appeal to many of the C2DEs who vote Tory, who may not all be travelling purely by tube or car, and certainly not to many younger voters especially those in cities - a lot of us do travel on public transport, and I am not ashamed to say so - whenever I’m in London I take buses and tubes.
This discussion has been closed.