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  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 4,970

    MaxPB said:

    If Theresa May isn't going to shake up the more senior posts, there isn't any point to the reshuffle.

    Hammond is safe, Boris is not moveable and Rudd is her second in command.
    Why is Boris Johnson immoveable? He's out of his depth and conspicuously disloyal. If he could despatch her, he already would have. He'd be no loss to the government.

    And my point stands. If a reshuffle is to do anything, it's to give the administration a fresh look. Keeping the same senior faces won't do that.

    Immoveable or unmoveable?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 1,843
    edited January 7
    IanB2 said:

    Nothing new in May's interview afaics? The BBC is leading with the 'no hunting vote' story which is old news from the autumn.

    Somebody no one has heard of probably tweeted about it, and a BBC twitter monkey needed a web story.

    eg sitting across 1.2 seats in empty carriage is a revolutionary act, according to the Beeboids. The original article was a pile of pish, completely dismantled in the comments.



  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 11,010

    Oh, and how come Chloe Smith isn't being tipped for high office?

    Not up to it? She’s been up there before, remember.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 1,843
    edited January 7
    The BBC News channel even invited *me* on last week, just because I had tweeted a few stats undermining some nonsense claims about rail renationalisation.

    I have only had that happen once before, when I landed a story about random stop and search (Section 44 as was?) at no.1 on Google.

    No wonder BBC News has gone to hell in a handcart.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 9,820

    IanB2 said:

    Nothing new in May's interview afaics? The BBC is leading with the 'no hunting vote' story which is old news from the autumn.

    Confirmed re-shuffle tomorrow, put Toby Young on a final warning, dispatched fox hunting vote, defended NHS and generally played a straight bat, unlike England
    Keeping the plates spinning without rising to any of the challenges; nothing new to progress the agenda she committed herself to on taking office.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 8,075
    It's not just the people, it's the policies too. After eight years they're out of ideas and the talent has gone.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 35,796
    IanB2 said:

    Keeping the plates spinning without rising to any of the challenges; nothing new to progress the agenda she committed herself to on taking office.

    NHS winter crisis, Iran, Brexit, President "Very Stable Genius" Trump...

    Yes, let's talk about fox hunting.

    Pathetic
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 3,549
    Jonathan said:

    It's not just the people, it's the policies too. After eight years they're out of ideas and the talent has gone.

    Genuine talent is quite good at surviving. There was a great deal of fuss in 2010 about the amount of new talent that had come into Parliament. Where is it?
  • Rebourne_FluffyRebourne_Fluffy Posts: 225
    edited January 7
    As a townie I quite like seeing the local foxes in my area (even the skinny, mankie ones). The only dead fox I have seen was a road-kill by some evil motorist: The flattened gut was interesting but disturbing concurrently.

    That said: All foxes are vermin. T'Economist did a valid explaination on why hunting-with-hounds was more beneficial to local fox populations many-many-moons-ago: You cannot guarantee that a .22 will instantly kill a fox (whom may have otherwised out-witted the hounds).

    So Tessa has dropped the free-vote: As a pro-hunter I ain't bothered. It just shows another example of shyte legislation from 'Neue-Arbeiter' whilst Cronie and his back-benchers raided English taxes. The law is as effective and enforced as that of FGM and - as such - our legal system is one that is full of patronage and comedy.
  • Rebourne_FluffyRebourne_Fluffy Posts: 225
    edited January 7
    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    Nothing new in May's interview afaics? The BBC is leading with the 'no hunting vote' story which is old news from the autumn.

    Somebody no one has heard of probably tweeted about it, and a BBC twitter monkey needed a web story.

    eg sitting across 1.2 seats in empty carriage is a revolutionary act, according to the Beeboids. The original article was a pile of pish, completely dismantled in the comments.



    She looks 'special': Could she not request a "priority" seat instead?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 23,943
    "I get the feeling Mrs Leadsom’s leadership ambitions remain undimmed."

    I hear precisely no-one talking about them. It's been over for her for some time.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 23,943
    Sean_F said:

    Young's response to the tweet about the kleenex was sick, but undeniably funny. But, I doubt if Theresa May would laugh.

    People need to grow-up, and get a sense of humour.

    Some of the funniest and most relieving jokes are ones that rely on very black humour.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 23,943
    MaxPB said:

    That Toby Young comment got a chuckle out of me. Definitely hope he stays now. People who don't find that funny are genuinely humourless losers.

    That's the sort of country we now live in, it seems.

    Orthodoxy and puritanism enforced by Twitter, skillfully and cunningly manipulated for political advantage by the Left.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 35,796

    That's the sort of country we now live in, it seems.

    Orthodoxy and puritanism enforced by Twitter, skillfully and cunningly manipulated for political advantage by the Left.

    The line from T May on Toby Young is those comments would disqualify him from office, if he made them now, but they're OK because he made them before she found out.

    Pathetic
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 3,549

    MaxPB said:

    That Toby Young comment got a chuckle out of me. Definitely hope he stays now. People who don't find that funny are genuinely humourless losers.

    That's the sort of country we now live in, it seems.

    Orthodoxy and puritanism enforced by Twitter, skillfully and cunningly manipulated for political advantage by the Left.
    That's a little over the top. Young is entitled to his childish boorishness but the Universities regulator wouldn't seem the obvious place for him. And for all this talk about left wing homogeneity - fine. Appoint an obvious conservative. But is Toby Young the best they can do? What abut Roger Scruton, David Starkey even.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 11,421
    MaxPB said:

    That Toby Young comment got a chuckle out of me. Definitely hope he stays now. People who don't find that funny are genuinely humourless losers.

    Should we genuinely humourless losers emigrate to a country that would reflect our lack of humour? I hear the Switzers' soh ain't all that.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 5,439
    Charles said:

    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    That Toby Young comment got a chuckle out of me. Definitely hope he stays now. People who don't find that funny are genuinely humourless losers.

    If sharing your and Young' sense of humour is the new definition of humourless loser, then I'm entirely happy to be counted among their number.
    It’s not funny, but nor is it an unforgivable sin
    Agreed.
    But as a characteristic comment, not exactly what you look for in an appointee.

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 6,050
    It is one thing for Toby Young to be an arse. It is quite another thing for him to be an arse funded by the taxpayer.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 9,215

    Sean_F said:

    Young's response to the tweet about the kleenex was sick, but undeniably funny. But, I doubt if Theresa May would laugh.

    People need to grow-up, and get a sense of humour.

    Some of the funniest and most relieving jokes are ones that rely on very black humour.
    Young's joke was boring and obvious. It was the first thing that popped into my head when I read the setup.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 23,943
    edited January 7

    MaxPB said:

    That Toby Young comment got a chuckle out of me. Definitely hope he stays now. People who don't find that funny are genuinely humourless losers.

    That's the sort of country we now live in, it seems.

    Orthodoxy and puritanism enforced by Twitter, skillfully and cunningly manipulated for political advantage by the Left.
    That's a little over the top. Young is entitled to his childish boorishness but the Universities regulator wouldn't seem the obvious place for him. And for all this talk about left wing homogeneity - fine. Appoint an obvious conservative. But is Toby Young the best they can do? What abut Roger Scruton, David Starkey even.
    I think Young is well-qualified for a role in the Office of Students due to his strong defence of free speech in universities (which very ironic, given the case against him - the whole point is to use OfS to promote a greater mixture of contentious points of views and perspectives in universities) and his expertise in launching, promoting and running free-schools.

    He is hated precisely because he's a Tory who's seen as a key architect of free schools. He's been attacked (pretty relentlessly) by the Education blob since 2010, and had a target on his back ever since.

    They now smell blood, and Madame Weakness (as usual) will chuck anyone to the wolves to appease Twitter rather than stand by her principles, ministers and supporters.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 5,428
    It's what you do laugh at, not what you don't, that marks out the genuinely humourless. Cf the poll which asked "Do you have a sense of humour?" To which 98.5% said yes, establishing beyond doubt that 1.5% of people have. The kleenex joke isn't "not funny" in the sense of "ok it's funny but in a really dark and un pc way", it's not funny in the way that Michael McIntyre is not funny.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 23,943
    Scott_P said:

    That's the sort of country we now live in, it seems.

    Orthodoxy and puritanism enforced by Twitter, skillfully and cunningly manipulated for political advantage by the Left.

    The line from T May on Toby Young is those comments would disqualify him from office, if he made them now, but they're OK because he made them before she found out.

    Pathetic
    What do you think she should do?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 13,469

    It is one thing for Toby Young to be an arse. It is quite another thing for him to be an arse funded by the taxpayer.

    I think you may find there are many such funded by the taxpayer. I know little about Toby Young other than his work on free schools but he must be doing something right to have the left so agitated about him
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 5,428
    "Funny" looks funny, as a word, when you type it lots of times in succession. How self-referential is that?
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,087
    stevef said:

    The Tories dont have to abandon blood sports altogether: just the cruel and barbaric ones like fox hunting. They do need to get on their horses, pursue and set the dogs on Jeremy Corbyn who is in Mexico at the moment paying homage at the grave of mass killer Leon Trotsky.

    While there are many in the UK who would quite like to pay a homage of sorts, at the graves of Tony Blair and David Cameron, just sayin'.....
  • MattWMattW Posts: 1,843
    edited January 7
    Alistair said:

    Sean_F said:

    Young's response to the tweet about the kleenex was sick, but undeniably funny. But, I doubt if Theresa May would laugh.

    People need to grow-up, and get a sense of humour.

    Some of the funniest and most relieving jokes are ones that rely on very black humour.
    Young's joke was boring and obvious. It was the first thing that popped into my head when I read the setup.
    I would say that Young's successful pioneering of 4 free schools under an alternative model outweighs a tweet from a decade ago.

    Might be different if he was going to be some sort of Education Csar (as has been claimed ... falsely), but he will be one member of a diverse committee (of 9 iirc?).

    I think the more important issue now is that decision-by-smear-campaign cannot be accepted.

    If the left are shouting about how angry they are, that is probably quite a good reason to keep someone in post.

    But I think TM will cave in.
  • My jokes are the best, and they are wholesome.

    I mean you can't get more wholesome than a joke involving jam and marmalade.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 13,469

    MaxPB said:

    That Toby Young comment got a chuckle out of me. Definitely hope he stays now. People who don't find that funny are genuinely humourless losers.

    That's the sort of country we now live in, it seems.

    Orthodoxy and puritanism enforced by Twitter, skillfully and cunningly manipulated for political advantage by the Left.
    That's a little over the top. Young is entitled to his childish boorishness but the Universities regulator wouldn't seem the obvious place for him. And for all this talk about left wing homogeneity - fine. Appoint an obvious conservative. But is Toby Young the best they can do? What abut Roger Scruton, David Starkey even.
    I think Young is well-qualified for a role in the Office of Students due to his strong defence of free speech in universities (which very ironic, given the case against him - the whole point is to use OfS to promote a greater mixture of contentious points of views and perspectives in universities) and his expertise in launching, promoting and running free-schools.

    He is hated precisely because he's a Tory who's seen as a key architect of free schools. He's been attacked (pretty relentlessly) by the Education blob since 2010, and had a target on his back ever since.

    They now smell blood, and Madame Weakness (as usual) will chuck anyone to the wolves to appease Twitter rather than stand by her principles, ministers and supporters.
    TM said he was on a final warning but she is keeping him in post much to the left's anger
  • stodgestodge Posts: 3,818
    Morning all :)

    I'm sure if this morning's interview had been by a member of the Shadow Cabinet or by Corbyn the usual suspects would have been on here calling it a "car crash".

    It was dreadful - she has all the personality of a plank of wood and just as much charm and charisma.

    Now it seems the Conservatives have abandoned the principle of people advancing on merit and now seem to want to promote anyone who isn't white or male. Sounds like the sort of thing the Labour party would do ?

    We also have this ludicrous notion that every new intake of Conservative MPs is so full of "talent" and "rising stars". We hear his every single time - the 2010 intake was supposed to be "stellar", now the 2015 intake is full of "rising stars".

    I suppose Conservatives have to keep saying it because one day it might actually be true.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 23,943
    Ishmael_Z said:

    It's what you do laugh at, not what you don't, that marks out the genuinely humourless. Cf the poll which asked "Do you have a sense of humour?" To which 98.5% said yes, establishing beyond doubt that 1.5% of people have. The kleenex joke isn't "not funny" in the sense of "ok it's funny but in a really dark and un pc way", it's not funny in the way that Michael McIntyre is not funny.

    There's rank hypocrisy as well.

    Many people who'd laugh at these same jokes in private will still take to the airwaves of Twitter to denounce them in public, to give themselves that warm self-righteous glow.

    It's just one small example of the sort of thing that stops normal people from touching political life with a bargepole.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 13,469
    Sky - Explosion at Stockholm metro station
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 42,410
    People who like wholesome humour should definitely check out Sir Edric's shenanigans, or my new comic: http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.co.uk/2017/12/tales-of-knights-and-nitwits-episode-1.html
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 23,943

    MaxPB said:

    That Toby Young comment got a chuckle out of me. Definitely hope he stays now. People who don't find that funny are genuinely humourless losers.

    That's the sort of country we now live in, it seems.

    Orthodoxy and puritanism enforced by Twitter, skillfully and cunningly manipulated for political advantage by the Left.
    That's a little over the top. Young is entitled to his childish boorishness but the Universities regulator wouldn't seem the obvious place for him. And for all this talk about left wing homogeneity - fine. Appoint an obvious conservative. But is Toby Young the best they can do? What abut Roger Scruton, David Starkey even.
    I think Young is well-qualified for a role in the Office of Students due to his strong defence of free speech in universities (which very ironic, given the case against him - the whole point is to use OfS to promote a greater mixture of contentious points of views and perspectives in universities) and his expertise in launching, promoting and running free-schools.

    He is hated precisely because he's a Tory who's seen as a key architect of free schools. He's been attacked (pretty relentlessly) by the Education blob since 2010, and had a target on his back ever since.

    They now smell blood, and Madame Weakness (as usual) will chuck anyone to the wolves to appease Twitter rather than stand by her principles, ministers and supporters.
    TM said he was on a final warning but she is keeping him in post much to the left's anger
    She'd better. Or there will be no end to the hounding of Conservatives from public bodies.

    Hell, you could find enough stuff on here that I've said to keep me out of public office for life. Same for TSE, Marquee Mark and several others.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 6,640
    MaxPB said:

    That Toby Young comment got a chuckle out of me. Definitely hope he stays now. People who don't find that funny are genuinely humourless losers.

    Not one of Toby's fellow wankers, I'm afraid. Unlike you, of course. And if you don't find that funny you are genuinely ...

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 42,410
    Mr. Royale, if only Young had done something more reputable, like making the case for a theocratic and barbarous regime that executes homosexuals and stones women to death for being raped, and therefore committing adultery.
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,087

    If Theresa May isn't going to shake up the more senior posts, there isn't any point to the reshuffle.

    It generates the picture of action to the electorate, lots of headlines, but not much more....
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 6,640
    edited January 7
    Toby Young is a nonentity. He is only of interest because he he got the job through being in the close circle at the top of the Conservative party and is a friend of the the Johnsons, the Goves and the Camerons. Any damage he causes reflects back on them.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 17,657
    edited January 7

    MaxPB said:

    That Toby Young comment got a chuckle out of me. Definitely hope he stays now. People who don't find that funny are genuinely humourless losers.

    That's the sort of country we now live in, it seems.

    Orthodoxy and puritanism enforced by Twitter, skillfully and cunningly manipulated for political advantage by the Left.
    Which is why they’ve gone completely nuts at the appointment of a right wing free speech advocate to the university regulator.

    From reading Twitter in the last week you’d think Toby Young was in the same league of evil as John Worboys.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 1,843
    edited January 7
    FF43 said:

    Toby Young is a nonentity.

    His work in driving diversity in education is significant.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 17,657
    edited January 7
    .
  • JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,727
    Ishmael_Z said:

    "Funny" looks funny, as a word, when you type it lots of times in succession. How self-referential is that?

    When I was about 12 one of my favourite words which I had invented was "gøy" (it sounds fun when you say it), but then I discovered that "gøy" was actually the Norwegian word meaning "fun". Which I thought was a bit gøyyy.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 23,943
    FF43 said:

    Toby Young is a nonentity. He is only of interest because he he got the job through being in the close circle at the top of the Conservative party and is a friend of the the Johnsons, the Goves and the Camerons. Any damage he causes reflects back on them.

    I strongly disagree with that. He was first off the block in promoting and co-founding the very first West London free school, and worked bloody hard at getting it established.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 23,943
    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    That Toby Young comment got a chuckle out of me. Definitely hope he stays now. People who don't find that funny are genuinely humourless losers.

    That's the sort of country we now live in, it seems.

    Orthodoxy and puritanism enforced by Twitter, skillfully and cunningly manipulated for political advantage by the Left.
    From reading Twitter in the last week you’d think Toby Young was in the same league of evil as John Worboys.
    They wouldn't see a difference.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 3,549

    MaxPB said:

    That Toby Young comment got a chuckle out of me. Definitely hope he stays now. People who don't find that funny are genuinely humourless losers.

    That's the sort of country we now live in, it seems.

    Orthodoxy and puritanism enforced by Twitter, skillfully and cunningly manipulated for political advantage by the Left.
    That's a little over the top. Young is entitled to his childish boorishness but the Universities regulator wouldn't seem the obvious place for him. And for all this talk about left wing homogeneity - fine. Appoint an obvious conservative. But is Toby Young the best they can do? What abut Roger Scruton, David Starkey even.
    I think Young is well-qualified for a role in the Office of Students due to his strong defence of free speech in universities (which very ironic, given the case against him - the whole point is to use OfS to promote a greater mixture of contentious points of views and perspectives in universities) and his expertise in launching, promoting and running free-schools.

    He is hated precisely because he's a Tory who's seen as a key architect of free schools. He's been attacked (pretty relentlessly) by the Education blob since 2010, and had a target on his back ever since.

    They now smell blood, and Madame Weakness (as usual) will chuck anyone to the wolves to appease Twitter rather than stand by her principles, ministers and supporters.
    Sorry but there's a couple of people - Fiona Millar and Melissa Benn come to mind - who have been on his back. N doubt people within the teaching unions as well. But overall? Really? The entire opposition to him on my facebook page is down to his apparent boorish, Tory boy image. It may be that that is what it is, an image. As a friend describes him in the Guardian piece he's a 'liberal baiter'. He doesn't necessarily believe the stuff he says, he just likes winding people up. Fine but not really the obvious person for a public appointment.

    As for the hounding of conservatives from public bodies do me a favour. There are plenty of conservatives - Roger Scruton being an obvious example - who could have been appointed without any fuss.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 23,943

    MaxPB said:

    That Toby Young comment got a chuckle out of me. Definitely hope he stays now. People who don't find that funny are genuinely humourless losers.

    That's the sort of country we now live in, it seems.

    Orthodoxy and puritanism enforced by Twitter, skillfully and cunningly manipulated for political advantage by the Left.
    That's a little over the top. Young is entitled to his childish boorishness but the Universities regulator wouldn't seem the obvious place for him. And for all this talk about left wing homogeneity - fine. Appoint an obvious conservative. But is Toby Young the best they can do? What abut Roger Scruton, David Starkey even.

    They now smell blood, and Madame Weakness (as usual) will chuck anyone to the wolves to appease Twitter rather than stand by her principles, ministers and supporters.
    Sorry but there's a couple of people - Fiona Millar and Melissa Benn come to mind - who have been on his back. N doubt people within the teaching unions as well. But overall? Really? The entire opposition to him on my facebook page is down to his apparent boorish, Tory boy image. It may be that that is what it is, an image. As a friend describes him in the Guardian piece he's a 'liberal baiter'. He doesn't necessarily believe the stuff he says, he just likes winding people up. Fine but not really the obvious person for a public appointment.

    As for the hounding of conservatives from public bodies do me a favour. There are plenty of conservatives - Roger Scruton being an obvious example - who could have been appointed without any fuss.
    Yes, the pursuit and hounding of Young and his associates has been relentless from Unions and those vested interests more broadly within the Education Sector. He was seen as an acolyte of (the very mild mannered) Gove, also detested.

    It's not based on anything other than image. But his tweets have given his enemies a stick to beat him with. I wouldn't take a blind bit of notice what comments are posted on Facebook
    or Twitter, neither are informed nor representative, still less an unfriendly piece in the Guardian. That for me is an asset: the liberal-left should be baited.

    And I don't, for one second, believe that those who've written provocative tweets should be barred from public office. I value competence, objectivity, experience and balance.

    In short: the Office of Students would be far worse off without him, and much more subject to group-think and producer capture.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 9,215
    Scott_P said:

    That's the sort of country we now live in, it seems.

    Orthodoxy and puritanism enforced by Twitter, skillfully and cunningly manipulated for political advantage by the Left.

    The line from T May on Toby Young is those comments would disqualify him from office, if he made them now, but they're OK because he made them before she found out.

    Pathetic
    She's managed to pick a worst of both worlds answer to piss off all sides.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 17,657

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    That Toby Young comment got a chuckle out of me. Definitely hope he stays now. People who don't find that funny are genuinely humourless losers.

    That's the sort of country we now live in, it seems.

    Orthodoxy and puritanism enforced by Twitter, skillfully and cunningly manipulated for political advantage by the Left.
    From reading Twitter in the last week you’d think Toby Young was in the same league of evil as John Worboys.
    They wouldn't see a difference.
    Which is precisely why the appointment was so good - exposing the intolerant illiberals for what they are. I’m sure he hasn’t stopped laughing for days now.
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,087

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    If Theresa May isn't going to shake up the more senior posts, there isn't any point to the reshuffle.

    Hammond is safe, Boris is not moveable and Rudd is her second in command.
    Why is Boris Johnson immoveable? He's out of his depth and conspicuously disloyal. If he could despatch her, he already would have. He'd be no loss to the government.

    And my point stands. If a reshuffle is to do anything, it's to give the administration a fresh look. Keeping the same senior faces won't do that.
    A pointless reshuffle that does nothing but sow discontent is very possible. After all, Theresa is not very good at this politics malarky.
    In fairness she's the first one to actually beat Corbyn, compared to the New Labour lot she's a superstar!
    And yet, most consider her a loser, and the longer she stumbles, the more she confirms that impression...
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 9,215

    Mr. Royale, if only Young had done something more reputable, like making the case for a theocratic and barbarous regime that executes homosexuals and stones women to death for being raped, and therefore committing adultery.

    Ah, happy to criticize some people's speech but not Young's as he's the right sort of fellow?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 42,410
    edited January 7
    Mr. Alistair, show me Young supporting a regime that considers homosexuality a capital offence and I'll condemn that without reserve.

    The willingness of those on the left to overlook their leader's noxious emanations whilst focusing on the whiffy, but far less pungent, atmosphere around Young is ridiculous.

    Dredging everything Young's ever side whilst considering the endless woe to spill from Corbyn's mouth is just double standards. All I want is the same test to be applied (not unlike the 'cultural appropriation but black Achilles and Sherlock Holmes is fine' double standard).

    Edited extra bit: said*, not side.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 2,195
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    That Toby Young comment got a chuckle out of me. Definitely hope he stays now. People who don't find that funny are genuinely humourless losers.

    That's the sort of country we now live in, it seems.

    Orthodoxy and puritanism enforced by Twitter, skillfully and cunningly manipulated for political advantage by the Left.
    From reading Twitter in the last week you’d think Toby Young was in the same league of evil as John Worboys.
    They wouldn't see a difference.
    Which is precisely why the appointment was so good - exposing the intolerant illiberals for what they are. I’m sure he hasn’t stopped laughing for days now.
    I am sure that he is in stitches as the MoS frontpage.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 6,050

    FF43 said:

    Toby Young is a nonentity. He is only of interest because he he got the job through being in the close circle at the top of the Conservative party and is a friend of the the Johnsons, the Goves and the Camerons. Any damage he causes reflects back on them.

    I strongly disagree with that. He was first off the block in promoting and co-founding the very first West London free school, and worked bloody hard at getting it established.
    So that his own children could go there and not have to mix with the undesirables from the South Acton Estate. By getting the government to pay for his own school he avoided the cost of sending his kids to a private school. Somehow this makes him a champion for education.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 9,910
    edited January 7
    Tories really need to get away from the idea that being unorthodox or having a different unfashionable viewpoint or being willing to ask tough questions or being willing to challenge accepted wisdom are the same as, or even require, boorishness and a basic lack of civility and bad judgment.

    If a grown man cannot understand that making a permanent record of the sort of crude comment that might pass muster amongst 15 year olds is not sensible, what does that say about his judgment? Or even about his understanding of the difference between a passing remark to mates and a wriiten comment which lasts?

    The truth is that Young made a career initially out of behaving like an oaf, he did not send those tweets or write those articles unthinkingly but deliberately because they got him what he wanted - notoriety, is now embarrassed and is, like everyone else caught out in a similar fashion, seeking to portray himself as a victim because of his Tory views.

    It also shows the piss poor level of due diligence that was done on him before his appointment.

    There are plenty of intelligent Conservatives who know how to behave like a grown up who would be willing to provide piblic service. Why not choose one of them rather than risk giving the impression that “Tory” is synonymous with “boor”?
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 6,466
    Good morning all.

    Toby Young isn't my cup of tea. People assert that he's done good things in the education sector, but that doesn't, in my view, outweigh the fact that his public utterances are so boorish and juvenile. Surely there must be better candidates?

    However, it's very much a storm in Twitter cup. I'm mostly waiting with bated breath for PM 'Calamity Jane' May's next set of avoidable political cock-ups. It's hugely disappointing that she's turned out to be Gordon Brown in a frock.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 11,421
    I see the ball crushingly banal 'if it's annoying the lefties he must be doing something right' meme is being given a vigorous chug this morning, from very much the same people who were saying that about Trump a year ago. Mind you, that particular chestnut seems to have withered on the bough lately.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 5,439
    Is it not somewhat absurd to be on the one hand defending Tocy Young, while on the other to be considering sacking a cabinet minister because you don't like her "patronising tone" ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 5,439
    Cyclefree said:

    Tories really need to get away from the idea that being unorthodox or having a different unfashionable viewpoint or being willing to ask tough questions or being willing to challenge accepted wisdom are the same as, or even require, boorishness and a basic lack of civility and bad judgment.

    If a grown man cannot understand that making a permanent record of the sort of crude comment that might pass muster amongst 15 year olds is not sensible, what does that say about his judgment? Or even about his understanding of the difference between a passing remark to mates and a wriiten comment which lasts?

    The truth is that Young made a career initially out of behaving like an oaf, he did not send those tweets or write those articles unthinkingly but deliberately because they got him what he wanted - notoriety, is now embarrassed and is, like everyone else caught out in a similar fashion, seeking to portray himself as a victim because of his Tory views.

    It also shows the piss poor level of due diligence that was done on him before his appointment.

    There are plenty of intelligent Conservatives who know how to behave like a grown up who would be willing to provide piblic service. Why not choose one of them rather than risk giving the impression that “Tory” is synonymous with “boor”?

    I'm glad to see that you have reclaimed your mantle of arbiter of common sense, after the brief cappuccino aberration....
    :smile:
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 19,818
    John_M said:

    Good morning all.

    Toby Young isn't my cup of tea. People assert that he's done good things in the education sector, but that doesn't, in my view, outweigh the fact that his public utterances are so boorish and juvenile. Surely there must be better candidates?

    However, it's very much a storm in Twitter cup. I'm mostly waiting with bated breath for PM 'Calamity Jane' May's next set of avoidable political cock-ups. It's hugely disappointing that she's turned out to be Gordon Brown in a frock.

    Tomorrow morning apparently. When she throws away her majority for a second time.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 2,195

    MaxPB said:

    That Toby Young comment got a chuckle out of me. Definitely hope he stays now. People who don't find that funny are genuinely humourless losers.

    That's the sort of country we now live in, it seems.

    Orthodoxy and puritanism enforced by Twitter, skillfully and cunningly manipulated for political advantage by the Left.
    That's a little over the top. Young is entitled to his childish boorishness but the Universities regulator wouldn't seem the obvious place for him. And for all this talk about left wing homogeneity - fine. Appoint an obvious conservative. But is Toby Young the best they can do? What abut Roger Scruton, David Starkey even.

    They now smell blood, and Madame Weakness (as usual) will chuck anyone to the wolves to appease Twitter rather than stand by her principles, ministers and supporters.
    Sorry but there's a couple of people - Fiona Millar and Melissa Benn come to mind - who have been on his back. N doubt people within
    As for the hounding of conservatives from public bodies do me a favour. There are plenty of conservatives - Roger Scruton being an obvious example - who could have been appointed without any fuss.
    Yes, the pursuit and hounding of Young and his associates has been relentless from Unions and those vested interests more broadly within the Education Sector. He was seen as an acolyte of (the very mild mannered) Gove, also detested.

    It's not based on anything other than image. But his tweets have given his enemies a stick to beat him with. I wouldn't take a blind bit of notice what comments are posted on Facebook
    or Twitter, neither are informed nor representative, still less an unfriendly piece in the Guardian. That for me is an asset: the liberal-left should be baited.

    And I don't, for one second, believe that those who've written provocative tweets should be barred from public office. I value competence, objectivity, experience and balance.

    In short: the Office of Students would be far worse off without him, and much more subject to group-think and producer capture.
    Someone who has made a career of outrageous comments really has no excuse when he gets return fire. That said, I favour the Paul Mason position.

  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 1,650

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    If Theresa May isn't going to shake up the more senior posts, there isn't any point to the reshuffle.

    Hammond is safe, Boris is not moveable and Rudd is her second in command.
    Why is Boris Johnson immoveable? He's out of his depth and conspicuously disloyal. If he could despatch her, he already would have. He'd be no loss to the government.

    And my point stands. If a reshuffle is to do anything, it's to give the administration a fresh look. Keeping the same senior faces won't do that.
    A pointless reshuffle that does nothing but sow discontent is very possible. After all, Theresa is not very good at this politics malarky.
    In fairness she's the first one to actually beat Corbyn, compared to the New Labour lot she's a superstar!
    That is true. However, she also had the third go at trying to beat Corbyn. Should she have done better?

    In retrospect, Theresa -- and all of us -- should have learnt something from the ease with which Jeremy disposed of Liz Kendall, Andy Burnham, Yvette Cooper, Angela Eagle and Owen Smith.

    Theresa & the Tories followed Leicester Liz & Co in comprehensively underestimating Corbyn and his appeal.

    But, I suspect that it will not happen a fourth time. That is the problem with being a successful underdog. It is a diminishing asset.


  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 5,439
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    That Toby Young comment got a chuckle out of me. Definitely hope he stays now. People who don't find that funny are genuinely humourless losers.

    That's the sort of country we now live in, it seems.

    Orthodoxy and puritanism enforced by Twitter, skillfully and cunningly manipulated for political advantage by the Left.
    From reading Twitter in the last week you’d think Toby Young was in the same league of evil as John Worboys.
    They wouldn't see a difference.
    Which is precisely why the appointment was so good - exposing the intolerant illiberals for what they are. I’m sure he hasn’t stopped laughing for days now.
    Épater la bourgeoisie might make sense for a writer building a reputation; as a political tactic, rather less so.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 11,421
    edited January 7
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    That Toby Young comment got a chuckle out of me. Definitely hope he stays now. People who don't find that funny are genuinely humourless losers.

    That's the sort of country we now live in, it seems.

    Orthodoxy and puritanism enforced by Twitter, skillfully and cunningly manipulated for political advantage by the Left.
    From reading Twitter in the last week you’d think Toby Young was in the same league of evil as John Worboys.
    They wouldn't see a difference.
    Which is precisely why the appointment was so good - exposing the intolerant illiberals for what they are. I’m sure he hasn’t stopped laughing for days now.
    As far as I can see rather than laughing, Young has been issuing self pitying whines and marshalling his friends (often indistinguishable from once and future employers) to produce similar in his defence. In fact his snivelly self justifications have been one of the joys of this clusterfuck.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 11,010

    Mr. Alistair, show me Young supporting a regime that considers homosexuality a capital offence and I'll condemn that without reserve.

    The willingness of those on the left to overlook their leader's noxious emanations whilst focusing on the whiffy, but far less pungent, atmosphere around Young is ridiculous.

    Dredging everything Young's ever side whilst considering the endless woe to spill from Corbyn's mouth is just double standards. All I want is the same test to be applied (not unlike the 'cultural appropriation but black Achilles and Sherlock Holmes is fine' double standard).

    Edited extra bit: said*, not side.

    Just because some of us identify with the ‘generic’ left doesn’t make us all Corbyn acolytes.

    I suppose one could argue though that TY is suitable for the OfS or whatever it’s called because of his frequently juvenile utterings.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 23,943
    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    That Toby Young comment got a chuckle out of me. Definitely hope he stays now. People who don't find that funny are genuinely humourless losers.

    That's the sort of country we now live in, it seems.

    Orthodoxy and puritanism enforced by Twitter, skillfully and cunningly manipulated for political advantage by the Left.
    That's a little over the top. Young is entitled to his childish boorishness but the Universities regulator wouldn't seem the obvious place for him. And for all this talk about left wing homogeneity - fine. Appoint an obvious conservative. But is Toby Young the best they can do? What abut Roger Scruton, David Starkey even.

    They now smell blood, and Madame Weakness (as usual) will chuck anyone to the wolves to appease Twitter rather than stand by her principles, ministers and supporters.
    Sorry but there's a couple of people - Fiona Millar and Melissa Benn come to mind - who have been on his back. N doubt people within
    As for the hounding of conservatives from public bodies do me a favour. There are plenty of conservatives - Roger Scruton being an obvious example - who could have been appointed without any fuss.
    Yes, the pursuit and hounding of Young and his associates has been relentless from Unions and those vested interests more broadly within the Education Sector. He was seen as an acolyte of (the very mild mannered) Gove, also detested.

    It's not based on anything other than image. But his tweets have given his enemies a stick to beat him with. I wouldn't take a blind bit of notice what comments are posted on Facebook
    or Twitter, neither are informed nor representative, still less an unfriendly piece in the Guardian. That for me is an asset: the liberal-left should be baited.

    And I don't, for one second, believe that those who've written provocative tweets should be barred from public office. I value competence, objectivity, experience and balance.

    In short: the Office of Students would be far worse off without him, and much more subject to group-think and producer capture.
    Someone who has made a career of outrageous comments really has no excuse when he gets return fire. That said, I favour the Paul Mason position.

    That's rich coming from Paul Mason, a deeply unpleasant person.

    If Momentum - the NKVD of British politics - are calling for his head, then he should be as safe as houses.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 5,428
    Question for the self-proclaimed possessors of a sensayuma: the World's Funniest Joke is pretty versatile - it's available any time a leftie claims to have wept at the news of X and dried her tears with tissues. So, would the joke be equally rib-tickling if X were the Grenfell fire? The Rwanda massacres? The loss of a boatfull of immigrants?

    Sorry to have to ask, but not having a sense of humour myself, I am in the position of a blind man trying to make sense of a debate about colour schemes.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 19,818
    I find it astonishing that there is still debate about the appointment of Toby Young to some quango of minimal importance when Teresa May is apparently going to be changing some of the bag handlers in some of the departments tomorrow. It just shows obsessions every bit as weird as Toby himself. The Twitter sphere really can’t believe it may be defied.
  • JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,727
    The current situation reminds me of one of my favourite ever Private Eye cartoons, by Fantoni, 26th September 1969:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DStgZk3WAAAi4EI.jpg
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 42,410
    Mr. L, indeed.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 11,010
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Question for the self-proclaimed possessors of a sensayuma: the World's Funniest Joke is pretty versatile - it's available any time a leftie claims to have wept at the news of X and dried her tears with tissues. So, would the joke be equally rib-tickling if X were the Grenfell fire? The Rwanda massacres? The loss of a boatfull of immigrants?

    Sorry to have to ask, but not having a sense of humour myself, I am in the position of a blind man trying to make sense of a debate about colour schemes.

    We are approaching the Oscar Wilde vs Little Nell position
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 42,410
    King Cole, that's a fair comment, though I'd say most of the storm in the teacup has a distinctive Momentum flavour.

    As I said that the other day (I think to you), my impression of Young, formed from a QT appearance some years ago, is that he's a moron. Still think this has been overblown, though.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 14,483
    Afternoon all. Seems politics is back in full swing after the Xmas lull.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 23,943
    Cyclefree said:

    Tories really need to get away from the idea that being unorthodox or having a different unfashionable viewpoint or being willing to ask tough questions or being willing to challenge accepted wisdom are the same as, or even require, boorishness and a basic lack of civility and bad judgment.

    If a grown man cannot understand that making a permanent record of the sort of crude comment that might pass muster amongst 15 year olds is not sensible, what does that say about his judgment? Or even about his understanding of the difference between a passing remark to mates and a wriiten comment which lasts?

    The truth is that Young made a career initially out of behaving like an oaf, he did not send those tweets or write those articles unthinkingly but deliberately because they got him what he wanted - notoriety, is now embarrassed and is, like everyone else caught out in a similar fashion, seeking to portray himself as a victim because of his Tory views.

    It also shows the piss poor level of due diligence that was done on him before his appointment.

    There are plenty of intelligent Conservatives who know how to behave like a grown up who would be willing to provide piblic service. Why not choose one of them rather than risk giving the impression that “Tory” is synonymous with “boor”?

    You have to ask yourself: why now?

    All these same criticisms could have been made of Young when he was looking to set up the first West London Free School, and act as director of the New School Network, seven years ago. And yet, since then, he's proven himself to be a tireless education reformer, and made a significant contribution to public service, and the reform of secondary education in this country.

    In my view, this is an attempt to skewer anything further he might now have to carry over to the tertiary education sector.

    Nothing more, nothing less.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 1,501
    Nigelb said:

    Charles said:

    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    That Toby Young comment got a chuckle out of me. Definitely hope he stays now. People who don't find that funny are genuinely humourless losers.

    If sharing your and Young' sense of humour is the new definition of humourless loser, then I'm entirely happy to be counted among their number.
    It’s not funny, but nor is it an unforgivable sin
    Agreed.
    But as a characteristic comment, not exactly what you look for in an appointee.

    Any work of any value that May's Fourth Sector Education Pathfinders are going to do is going to be drowned out by whatever stupid shit TY has done or is doing. On that basis alone, he's an unsuitable appointment.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 9,215

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    That Toby Young comment got a chuckle out of me. Definitely hope he stays now. People who don't find that funny are genuinely humourless losers.

    That's the sort of country we now live in, it seems.

    Orthodoxy and puritanism enforced by Twitter, skillfully and cunningly manipulated for political advantage by the Left.
    From reading Twitter in the last week you’d think Toby Young was in the same league of evil as John Worboys.
    They wouldn't see a difference.
    Which is precisely why the appointment was so good - exposing the intolerant illiberals for what they are. I’m sure he hasn’t stopped laughing for days now.
    As far as I can see rather than laughing, Young has been issuing self pitying whines and marshalling his friends (often indistinguishable from once and future employers) to produce similar in his defence. In fact his snivelly self justifications have been one of the joys of this clusterfuck.
    Consequence free speech, okay for some but not all.

    It's just so beastly unfair.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 17,657
    DavidL said:

    I find it astonishing that there is still debate about the appointment of Toby Young to some quango of minimal importance when Teresa May is apparently going to be changing some of the bag handlers in some of the departments tomorrow. It just shows obsessions every bit as weird as Toby himself. The Twitter sphere really can’t believe it may be defied.

    Quite. The appointment was an interesting one, Young has always being a controversial writer, but for the last few years he worked very hard to run one of the best schools in the country.

    The reaction to his appointment though, is absolutely hillarious. I’d go as far as to say that the reaction is so overblown - he said something on Twitter a decade ago so he’s an evil monster - that his position is completely safe, removing him now just looks like the government giving into the mob of the perpetually offended.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 9,910
    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Tories really need to get away from the idea that being unorthodox or having a different unfashionable viewpoint or being willing to ask tough questions or being willing to challenge accepted wisdom are the same as, or even require, boorishness and a basic lack of civility and bad judgment.

    If a grown man cannot understand that making a permanent record of the sort of crude comment that might pass muster amongst 15 year olds is not sensible, what does that say about his judgment? Or even about his understanding of the difference between a passing remark to mates and a wriiten comment which lasts?

    The truth is that Young made a career initially out of behaving like an oaf, he did not send those tweets or write those articles unthinkingly but deliberately because they got him what he wanted - notoriety, is now embarrassed and is, like everyone else caught out in a similar fashion, seeking to portray himself as a victim because of his Tory views.

    It also shows the piss poor level of due diligence that was done on him before his appointment.

    There are plenty of intelligent Conservatives who know how to behave like a grown up who would be willing to provide piblic service. Why not choose one of them rather than risk giving the impression that “Tory” is synonymous with “boor”?

    I'm glad to see that you have reclaimed your mantle of arbiter of common sense, after the brief cappuccino aberration....
    :smile:
    I am, of course, right about cappuccino. But the British do like their Ovaltine and hot chocolate. So who am I to argue......

    Just never offer me one.

    :)
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 3,549
    John M and Cyclefree - I agree entirely. Favourite comments of the day.

    Championing someone because the are a 'liberal baiter' i.e deliberate provocateur is the logic that leads to Donald Trump.
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,087

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    If Theresa May isn't going to shake up the more senior posts, there isn't any point to the reshuffle.

    Hammond is safe, Boris is not moveable and Rudd is her second in command.
    Why is Boris Johnson immoveable? He's out of his depth and conspicuously disloyal. If he could despatch her, he already would have. He'd be no loss to the government.

    And my point stands. If a reshuffle is to do anything, it's to give the administration a fresh look. Keeping the same senior faces won't do that.
    A pointless reshuffle that does nothing but sow discontent is very possible. After all, Theresa is not very good at this politics malarky.
    In fairness she's the first one to actually beat Corbyn, compared to the New Labour lot she's a superstar!
    That is true. However, she also had the third go at trying to beat Corbyn. Should she have done better?

    In retrospect, Theresa -- and all of us -- should have learnt something from the ease with which Jeremy disposed of Liz Kendall, Andy Burnham, Yvette Cooper, Angela Eagle and Owen Smith.

    Theresa & the Tories followed Leicester Liz & Co in comprehensively underestimating Corbyn and his appeal.

    But, I suspect that it will not happen a fourth time. That is the problem with being a successful underdog. It is a diminishing asset.


    Why do so many forget that Corbyn has watched from the back benches for nearly 30 years? Think about it, he has seen all the different tactics and the results by some of the experts, the wannabe's and the few who make Machiaveli look like a rank amateur. I don't think I would like to play political chess against him....
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 1,501
    edited January 7

    John M and Cyclefree - I agree entirely. Favourite comments of the day.

    Championing someone because the are a 'liberal baiter' i.e deliberate provocateur is the logic that leads to Donald Trump.

    A analogous culture war is coming to the UK. The Young appointment is just one salvo in this conflict.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 17,612
    Scary long read on what has happendd to Greek state assets since the EU forcibly flogged them off.





    https://www.the-american-interest.com/2018/01/05/new-greek-oligarchy/
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 724

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    If Theresa May isn't going to shake up the more senior posts, there isn't any point to the reshuffle.

    Hammond is safe, Boris is not moveable and Rudd is her second in command.
    Why is Boris Johnson immoveable? He's out of his depth and conspicuously disloyal. If he could despatch her, he already would have. He'd be no loss to the government.

    And my point stands. If a reshuffle is to do anything, it's to give the administration a fresh look. Keeping the same senior faces won't do that.
    A pointless reshuffle that does nothing but sow discontent is very possible. After all, Theresa is not very good at this politics malarky.
    In fairness she's the first one to actually beat Corbyn, compared to the New Labour lot she's a superstar!
    That is true. However, she also had the third go at trying to beat Corbyn. Should she have done better?

    In retrospect, Theresa -- and all of us -- should have learnt something from the ease with which Jeremy disposed of Liz Kendall, Andy Burnham, Yvette Cooper, Angela Eagle and Owen Smith.

    Theresa & the Tories followed Leicester Liz & Co in comprehensively underestimating Corbyn and his appeal.

    But, I suspect that it will not happen a fourth time. That is the problem with being a successful underdog. It is a diminishing asset.



    The Labour right didn't underestimate him second time around, they tried to keep him off the ballot and then coalesced around a single candidate to try and defeat adopting whatever views they needed to, some might even say some dirty tricks were employed to get rid of potential Corbyn voters. By that time it was too late though he had too much momentum.

    My comment was half jokey about May but the Conservatives general strategy was a big vote winner, it's why I think a different Labour candidate would have been buried a lot of new people were motivated to vote Conservative and it wasn't just because of Corbyn.

    As to Young it just seems a silly own goal from the Conservatives, surely there was someone with right wing views who hasn't acted like such an idiot. It helps create or reinforce a certain view of British Conservatives which could be more closely linked to the American right wing scene which is generally not popular in the UK.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 3,171
    DavidL said:

    John_M said:

    Good morning all.

    Toby Young isn't my cup of tea. People assert that he's done good things in the education sector, but that doesn't, in my view, outweigh the fact that his public utterances are so boorish and juvenile. Surely there must be better candidates?

    However, it's very much a storm in Twitter cup. I'm mostly waiting with bated breath for PM 'Calamity Jane' May's next set of avoidable political cock-ups. It's hugely disappointing that she's turned out to be Gordon Brown in a frock.

    Tomorrow morning apparently. When she throws away her majority for a second time.
    Do not think she will.I quite like dull and boring May.Good news that she is creating a new forest.
  • Rebourne_FluffyRebourne_Fluffy Posts: 225
    edited January 7
    I am a minority*: I like looking at curvy-boobs and deep-cleveages. When are my minority-views going to be protected from feminists with 'flat-pancakes' and a nasty attitude?

    * This status only applys to those of immigrant stock who identify as white and are males.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 14,483
    Desperate news management attempt by Rudd:

    "Pub opening hours could be extended to 1am for the weekend of the royal wedding in May, the government says."

    BBC News.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 11,010

    King Cole, that's a fair comment, though I'd say most of the storm in the teacup has a distinctive Momentum flavour.

    As I said that the other day (I think to you), my impression of Young, formed from a QT appearance some years ago, is that he's a moron. Still think this has been overblown, though.

    You did indeed Mr D; my impression of the silly man was initially formed from reading his book. I didn’t, I’m pleased to say buy it:; I borrowed it. I’ve subsequently seen him on TV and doing so did nothing to improve my opinion.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 11,421
    Sandpit said:

    he said something on Twitter a decade ago

    How many tweets did he delete, 40-50k was it?
    If the 'something' he said was contained in those tweets, it must have been approaching the length of the Iliad, though with perhaps not the same cultural significance.

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 8,296
    Nottingham is in the North.

    I’ve just been to a carvery there and they served mushy peas.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 11,010
    edited January 7

    Desperate news management attempt by Rudd:

    "Pub opening hours could be extended to 1am for the weekend of the royal wedding in May, the government says."

    BBC News.

    The FA and Scottish Cup Final are on the same day. Home TV showing the wedding, pubs the football. Anyone else up for a TV-less wine bar and a civilised chat?
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 901
    TGOHF said:

    Scary long read on what has happendd to Greek state assets since the EU forcibly flogged them off.





    https://www.the-american-interest.com/2018/01/05/new-greek-oligarchy/

    Interesting read, thanks for the link.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 1,843
    edited January 7
    Foxy said:



    Someone who has made a career of outrageous comments really has no excuse when he gets return fire. That said, I favour the Paul Mason position.

    The Paul Mason position?

    You mean publishing fictions to half a million people and being a general embarrassment to the journalistic craft, whilst urinating on his own reputation - such as it used to be?

    Here are a couple of Paul Mason's Toby Young tweets:



    A sensationalist headline with the rest of the article strangely omitted.

    Followed by:

    Article is here:
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/toby-young-free-school-pioneer-described-working-class-grammar-school-boys-at-oxford-as-universally-10517380.html
    The first tweet is a not very subtle misreporting of the article, which is perhaps why it was clipped. Indy political headlines are notorious.

    The second seems to be a simple lie, followed by Mason expressing his personal prejudices - the sound of one knee jerking.

    A rather pathetic man. There is plenty more.

    Off out now - Osmo oil to put on some doors.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 17,657
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    That Toby Young comment got a chuckle out of me. Definitely hope he stays now. People who don't find that funny are genuinely humourless losers.

    That's the sort of country we now live in, it seems.

    Orthodoxy and puritanism enforced by Twitter, skillfully and cunningly manipulated for political advantage by the Left.
    From reading Twitter in the last week you’d think Toby Young was in the same league of evil as John Worboys.
    They wouldn't see a difference.
    Which is precisely why the appointment was so good - exposing the intolerant illiberals for what they are. I’m sure he hasn’t stopped laughing for days now.
    I am sure that he is in stitches as the MoS frontpage.
    I doubt he cares too much about the MoS, although if it were the Daily Mail he might.

    I’m sure lots of people are grateful that an inconsequential appointment to the board of a quango is keeping the NHS winter crisis off the front pages though.
  • Rebourne_FluffyRebourne_Fluffy Posts: 225
    edited January 7
    Aspells sold to Molson-Coors: No great loss. The cider product makes Strongbow taste acceptable. We still have "K" but I wonder what happened to "Red-Rock"? *

    * Remembering my earlier years....
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 3,171
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    That Toby Young comment got a chuckle out of me. Definitely hope he stays now. People who don't find that funny are genuinely humourless losers.

    That's the sort of country we now live in, it seems.

    Orthodoxy and puritanism enforced by Twitter, skillfully and cunningly manipulated for political advantage by the Left.
    From reading Twitter in the last week you’d think Toby Young was in the same league of evil as John Worboys.
    They wouldn't see a difference.
    Which is precisely why the appointment was so good - exposing the intolerant illiberals for what they are. I’m sure he hasn’t stopped laughing for days now.
    I am sure that he is in stitches as the MoS frontpage.
    I doubt he cares too much about the MoS, although if it were the Daily Mail he might.

    I’m sure lots of people are grateful that an inconsequential appointment to the board of a quango is keeping the NHS winter crisis off the front pages though.
    I think we are very lucky to have a PM a vicars daughter, with morals ,in charge of these boorish men.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 9,910
    Incidentally, all those defending Young’s past comments won’t mind in the slightest when Corbyn’s defenders use the self-same arguments to deflect any criticism or even scrutiny of Corbyn’s past comments and associations by Tories.

    Is there no-one in the Tory party with even the slightest strategic sense or tactical nous?
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 3,171
    Cyclefree said:

    Incidentally, all those defending Young’s past comments won’t mind in the slightest when Corbyn’s defenders use the self-same arguments to deflect any criticism or even scrutiny of Corbyn’s past comments and associations by Tories.

    Is there no-one in the Tory party with even the slightest strategic sense or tactical nous?

    Probably not the same people had their say on Jared O'Mara.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 6,050
    If Young does get the chop I'm fully expecting some of his PB pompom wavers to hold candlelit vigils and start a #JeSuisToby campaign.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 4,472
    Cyclefree said:

    Incidentally, all those defending Young’s past comments won’t mind in the slightest when Corbyn’s defenders use the self-same arguments to deflect any criticism or even scrutiny of Corbyn’s past comments and associations by Tories.

    Is there no-one in the Tory party with even the slightest strategic sense or tactical nous?

    Thanks CycleFree. I find the comments appalling and I've been very disappointed by the number of PBers who have condoned them.
  • Rebourne_FluffyRebourne_Fluffy Posts: 225
    edited January 7

    Cyclefree said:

    Incidentally, all those defending Young’s past comments won’t mind in the slightest when Corbyn’s defenders use the self-same arguments to deflect any criticism or even scrutiny of Corbyn’s past comments and associations by Tories.

    Is there no-one in the Tory party with even the slightest strategic sense or tactical nous?

    Thanks CycleFree. I find the comments appalling and I've been very disappointed by the number of PBers who have condoned them.
    <sunil-mode>

    </sunil-mode>

This discussion has been closed.