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  • JohnO said:

    A leadership contest in 2021 between Hunt and McVey is one I could feel intensely comfortable about participating as an activist/member, being happy with either as victor.

    Absolutely.

    (The fact that I'm on both of them at long odds doesn't of course influence me in any way).
    Absolutely here too.

    Though I would prefer it to be Hunt.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 13,665
    Lewisham's a long way from The Flask.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 3,197
    IanB2 said:

    Very happy with Brandon Lewis and James Cleverly. The Only Way Is Essex.

    Yes, I have heard other Tories describe Lewis as an oik, but they certainly need someone with the common touch.
    He went to public school (but not St Paul's like the other oik).
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 2,026
    Anazina said:

    A very poorly composed, unprofessional looking photograph! Gaps between shoulders is a complete no-no when taking group portraits. Cleverly looks isolated, for example.

    Can't these blundering halfwits get anything right?
    Tories = clueless and incompetent (for the umpteenth time today).
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 4,550

    HYUFD said:


    Given the median voter is about 55 the Tories could win even if they lost under 50s let alone under 40s if they had a big enough lead amongst over 50s.

    No Tory leader has won under 30s since 1983 but the Tories won 3 majorities and most seats twice since then

    The problem is the switchover age is likely to keep creeping up without something happening to change things, with the Conservatives in government and struggling that doesn't seem likely. Unless there really were masses of old Conservative voters who didn't vote last time but can be brought out this time as well as those who voted Conservative last time to counter the new voters coming in and some of the older ones dying off. They have to win voters just to maintain their current position considering demographic change, let alone make up for any they lose or Labour gain over the next few years.
    The defect in that argument is that there is a pool of prospective CON voters - the 65+ group who failed to turnout out at GE17 on anything like the scale pf previous elections. It was the diminished number of oldies for CON as well as the increased turnout by the young that caused the GE17 outcome. Alas JC doesn't appeal to his own generation and continues to get terrible ratings from them. Labour needs an "oldie-friendly" leader
  • IanB2 said:

    Very happy with Brandon Lewis and James Cleverly. The Only Way Is Essex.

    Yes, I have heard other Tories describe Lewis as an oik, but they certainly need someone with the common touch.
    I have the common touch, I'd have made a fine Party Chairman.
  • stevefstevef Posts: 1,044
    murali_s said:

    So it has taken most of the day for May to make one appointment - and to make an arse of that. Well done Tezzie.

    Just reinforces the fact that the Tories are clueless and incompetent. Is anyone surprised?
    You forget the occasion when Corbyn took three weeks to reshuffle his cabinet, ran out of MPs willing to serve under him, and appointed and then sacked a female MP as a shadow minister without informing her. "By the measure you use, it will be measured to you..."
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 15,212
    marke09 said:

    Matthew Moore‏ @mattkmoore

    NEW: BBC staff told that anyone who has indicated support for Carrie Gracie, or tweeted an opinion about BBC pay, can no longer present any segments on BBC pay.
    12:59 PM - 8 Jan 2018

    The BBC are doing their best to make the Tory party look competent by comparison.
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 948
    Anazina said:

    A very poorly composed, unprofessional looking photograph! Gaps between shoulders is a complete no-no when taking group portraits. Cleverly looks isolated, for example.

    Can't these blundering halfwits get anything right?
    I don't much care about shoulders in photos, but it says a lot about the Government that they have done all the party stuff first, and only then the actual departmental changes. Party before country subliminals yet again.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 14,169
    Why am I reminded of the Lord Mayor of London's dismissal of the 1666 fire in relation to Trump Tower?
  • felixfelix Posts: 7,679

    IanB2 said:

    Very happy with Brandon Lewis and James Cleverly. The Only Way Is Essex.

    Yes, I have heard other Tories describe Lewis as an oik, but they certainly need someone with the common touch.
    I have the common touch, I'd have made a fine Party Chairman.
    Red stilettos don't qualify as the common touch - it's essex white patent all the way.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 6,380

    JohnO said:

    So far, so good with one result declared. Lewis was high on my must-promote list. Let's hope Anne Milton joins him in Cabinet this afternoon.

    Raab for Northern Ireland Secretary?

    Do you think there's any chance she might promote Esther McVey? She's wasted in the Whips office.
    I agree with you regarding #Esther4Leader - she should be in front of the cameras, not locked away in a back office.
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 1,037
    edited January 8
    HYUFD said:

    Kemi Badenoch new CCHQ Vice Chair for Candidates

    https://mobile.twitter.com/carriesymonds/status/950355827327512576

    Even more Essex at CCHQ and another Brexiteer - albeit Kemi represents posh Saffron Walden! They should get their own reality tv show on ITV2.

    I think Kemi could be a future Tory leader one day - certainly Cabinet material. He maiden speech was excellent - but then I am a leave voter from Essex too!
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 3,522

    I'm most interested to see what happens with Greening. If she's sacked entirely then she's very unlikely to go quietly. May doesn't need another high-profile Remainer foe on the backbenches.

    I struggle to see what she's done wrong that merits sacking. Ok, she was hardly effusively pro-grammars. Fine: the country has bigger issues to worry about right now. And May reportedly doesn't like her. That's as may be, but we all have to work with people we don't like.

    Replacing a safe pair of hands at Education with someone more likely to do May's bidding, in an age of desperately tight budgets, is very unlikely to generate vote-winning headlines, nor endear many parents to this government.

    Yes, it would be a sad end. She was once hailed as the young, bright face of modern Toryism; now Theresa holds her in contempt because of her worthless prattling in Cabinet. Once Greening is gone we can say with conviction that the sun's finally set on the Cameron era.
  • felixfelix Posts: 7,679
    tpfkar said:

    Anazina said:

    A very poorly composed, unprofessional looking photograph! Gaps between shoulders is a complete no-no when taking group portraits. Cleverly looks isolated, for example.

    Can't these blundering halfwits get anything right?
    I don't much care about shoulders in photos, but it says a lot about the Government that they have done all the party stuff first, and only then the actual departmental changes. Party before country subliminals yet again.
    It does not say what you think/want it to say.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 923
    felix said:

    HYUFD said:


    Given the median voter is about 55 the Tories could win even if they lost under 50s let alone under 40s if they had a big enough lead amongst over 50s.

    No Tory leader has won under 30s since 1983 but the Tories won 3 majorities and most seats twice since then

    The problem is the switchover age is likely to keep creeping up without something happening to change things, with the Conservatives in government and struggling that doesn't seem likely. Unless there really were masses of old Conservative voters who didn't vote last time but can be brought out this time as well as those who voted Conservative last time to counter the new voters coming in and some of the older ones dying off. They have to win voters just to maintain their current position considering demographic change, let alone make up for any they lose or Labour gain over the next few years.
    The most recent polls suggest you may be getting ahead of yourself there. Of course they could be wrong and there could be a hidden groundswell for JC just waiting for a GE to unleash their votes. Or many of those who voted Labour last time expecting a big Tory win might be more careful next time. I don't know where you are based or who you generally mix with but.....
    Demographic change would be within margin of error although Labour have generally been slightly ahead in them anyway I thought? MOE again though. To clarify the demographic change would be a fairly slow thing, there aren't that many older voters dying off and young people (who will vote) turning 18 to make a big swing in the 6 plus months we have had since the election. It is a small continual swing they have to do something to work against though as deaths and children becoming adults are naturally shrinking their lead without anybody changing their mind.

    I thought the lots of people only voted Labour because they were going to lose myth was busted a while back?
  • @gabyhinsliff: Not sure, but i think we may end up with more Conservative party vice chairs than Liberal Democrat MPs.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 11,792
    edited January 8
    IanB2 said:

    Very happy with Brandon Lewis and James Cleverly. The Only Way Is Essex.

    Yes, I have heard other Tories describe Lewis as an oik, but they certainly need someone with the common touch.
    As opposed to touching being common, which seemed to have been a problem previously.
  • basicbridgebasicbridge Posts: 132
    Anazina said:

    A very poorly composed, unprofessional looking photograph! Gaps between shoulders is a complete no-no when taking group portraits. Cleverly looks isolated, for example.

    Can't these blundering halfwits get anything right?
    oh for heavens sake! what a total "non-comment" on a complete "non-issue"....

  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 3,640

    marke09 said:

    Matthew Moore‏ @mattkmoore

    NEW: BBC staff told that anyone who has indicated support for Carrie Gracie, or tweeted an opinion about BBC pay, can no longer present any segments on BBC pay.
    12:59 PM - 8 Jan 2018

    The BBC are doing their best to make the Tory party look competent by comparison.
    Actually the BBC don't really have a choice on this. They have to maintain some semblance of impartiality - and that means keeping those who have made public statements on the topic away from reporting on it. It is very difficult when the BBC is at the heart of a major news story - but they just don't have any other option.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 5,544
    Anazina said:

    A very poorly composed, unprofessional looking photograph! Gaps between shoulders is a complete no-no when taking group portraits. Cleverly looks isolated, for example.

    Can't these blundering halfwits get anything right?
    I think it's the same bloke at both ends and he's done the running-round-the-back thing.
  • stevefstevef Posts: 1,044
    Before anyone announces that the Tories are bound to lose the next election because of a Cabinet reshuffle cock up, let us remember the occasion when Jeremy Corbyn took three weeks to reshuffle his cabinet, ran out of MPs who were willing to serve under him, and then appointed and sacked as a shadow cabinet minister an MP who was having cancer treatment without informing her either way. And then decided that the country was crying out for Diane Abbott as Home Secretary. When it comes to incompetence there is only one unchallenged master.......

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-labour-shadow-cabinet-thangam-debbonaire-cancer-a7141341.html
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 6,872
    edited January 8

    HYUFD said:


    Given the median voter is about 55 the Tories could win even if they lost under 50s let alone under 40s if they had a big enough lead amongst over 50s.

    No Tory leader has won under 30s since 1983 but the Tories won 3 majorities and most seats twice since then

    The problem is the switchover age is likely to keep creeping up without something happening to change things, with the Conservatives in government and struggling that doesn't seem likely. Unless there really were masses of old Conservative voters who didn't vote last time but can be brought out this time as well as those who voted Conservative last time to counter the new voters coming in and some of the older ones dying off. They have to win voters just to maintain their current position considering demographic change, let alone make up for any they lose or Labour gain over the next few years.
    The defect in that argument is that there is a pool of prospective CON voters - the 65+ group who failed to turnout out at GE17 on anything like the scale pf previous elections. It was the diminished number of oldies for CON as well as the increased turnout by the young that caused the GE17 outcome. Alas JC doesn't appeal to his own generation and continues to get terrible ratings from them. Labour needs an "oldie-friendly" leader
    Where is the evidence that loads of Tory oldies abstained? If that happened, why was Tory support with pensioners who DID turn out vastly increased on 2015? Surely this suggests that the pensioner abstainers in 2017 were mostly Labour supporters?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 29,057
    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    So far, so good with one result declared. Lewis was high on my must-promote list. Let's hope Anne Milton joins him in Cabinet this afternoon.

    Raab for Northern Ireland Secretary?

    Do you think there's any chance she might promote Esther McVey? She's wasted in the Whips office.
    Esther's appointment to the whips office was inexplicable (ie only Mrs May could do it), but the sooner she's back in a senior public role, the better.
    Or could it be part of a longer game, getting McVey to know the Parliamentary party in depth.....
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 14,169

    I'm most interested to see what happens with Greening. If she's sacked entirely then she's very unlikely to go quietly. May doesn't need another high-profile Remainer foe on the backbenches.

    I struggle to see what she's done wrong that merits sacking. Ok, she was hardly effusively pro-grammars. Fine: the country has bigger issues to worry about right now. And May reportedly doesn't like her. That's as may be, but we all have to work with people we don't like.

    Replacing a safe pair of hands at Education with someone more likely to do May's bidding, in an age of desperately tight budgets, is very unlikely to generate vote-winning headlines, nor endear many parents to this government.

    Yes, it would be a sad end. She was once hailed as the young, bright face of modern Toryism; now Theresa holds her in contempt because of her worthless prattling in Cabinet. Once Greening is gone we can say with conviction that the sun's finally set on the Cameron era.
    Although when the sun sets, it rises again a few hours later.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 2,026
    stevef said:

    murali_s said:

    So it has taken most of the day for May to make one appointment - and to make an arse of that. Well done Tezzie.

    Just reinforces the fact that the Tories are clueless and incompetent. Is anyone surprised?
    You forget the occasion when Corbyn took three weeks to reshuffle his cabinet, ran out of MPs willing to serve under him, and appointed and then sacked a female MP as a shadow minister without informing her. "By the measure you use, it will be measured to you..."
    Corbyn is leading a rag tag rebellion, the Tories are meant to be in charge of the country. Stop changing the issue, the issue is that the Tories are totally clueless and incompetent - hope you agree with that my friend?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 6,210
    Is that the Grayling gap ?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 6,380
    May is more concerned with appointing bag-carriers in her own party head office than appointing secretaries of state to the cabinet.

    I'm sure that most voters think the NHS is more important than who is responsible for sending a weekly e-mail to Tory candidates.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 24,532
    Sean_F said:

    Only teasing.

    You got me.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 4,550

    marke09 said:

    Matthew Moore‏ @mattkmoore

    NEW: BBC staff told that anyone who has indicated support for Carrie Gracie, or tweeted an opinion about BBC pay, can no longer present any segments on BBC pay.
    12:59 PM - 8 Jan 2018

    The BBC are doing their best to make the Tory party look competent by comparison.
    Actually the BBC don't really have a choice on this. They have to maintain some semblance of impartiality - and that means keeping those who have made public statements on the topic away from reporting on it. It is very difficult when the BBC is at the heart of a major news story - but they just don't have any other option.
    Spot on.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 923

    HYUFD said:


    Given the median voter is about 55 the Tories could win even if they lost under 50s let alone under 40s if they had a big enough lead amongst over 50s.

    No Tory leader has won under 30s since 1983 but the Tories won 3 majorities and most seats twice since then

    The problem is the switchover age is likely to keep creeping up without something happening to change things, with the Conservatives in government and struggling that doesn't seem likely. Unless there really were masses of old Conservative voters who didn't vote last time but can be brought out this time as well as those who voted Conservative last time to counter the new voters coming in and some of the older ones dying off. They have to win voters just to maintain their current position considering demographic change, let alone make up for any they lose or Labour gain over the next few years.
    The defect in that argument is that there is a pool of prospective CON voters - the 65+ group who failed to turnout out at GE17 on anything like the scale pf previous elections. It was the diminished number of oldies for CON as well as the increased turnout by the young that caused the GE17 outcome. Alas JC doesn't appeal to his own generation and continues to get terrible ratings from them. Labour needs an "oldie-friendly" leader
    I did mention the potential in my post "Unless there really were masses of old Conservative voters who didn't vote last time but can be brought out this time"

    Although I wonder how many of the over 65's who didn't vote were Labour voters who couldn't vote for Corbyn rather than potential Conservative voters?

    There may be a number of them but I question whether they are even there in enough numbers to counter the demographic change against the Conservatives let alone actually increase their lead.

    All of this isn't to say the Tories can't win just that to increase or stand still I feel they need to change voters minds.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 8,509
    The team to lead the Tories into opposition.

  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 1,037
    edited January 8

    marke09 said:

    Matthew Moore‏ @mattkmoore

    NEW: BBC staff told that anyone who has indicated support for Carrie Gracie, or tweeted an opinion about BBC pay, can no longer present any segments on BBC pay.
    12:59 PM - 8 Jan 2018

    The BBC are doing their best to make the Tory party look competent by comparison.
    She publicly criticises her employers, quits her job, then walks into another job with the BBC.

    Most people would get sacked for attacking their employer in public. She could always see how much Russia today or Al Jazeera would pay her on the open market?

    Brave would be resigning and leaving the BBC entirely.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 11,792
    edited January 8

    Anazina said:

    A very poorly composed, unprofessional looking photograph! Gaps between shoulders is a complete no-no when taking group portraits. Cleverly looks isolated, for example.

    Can't these blundering halfwits get anything right?
    oh for heavens sake! what a total "non-comment" on a complete "non-issue"....

    Indeed.
    Why can't we get back to the good old days of discussing how Jezza ties his tie and what Ed's dead dad said 70 years ago?
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 3,197
    edited January 8

    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    So far, so good with one result declared. Lewis was high on my must-promote list. Let's hope Anne Milton joins him in Cabinet this afternoon.

    Raab for Northern Ireland Secretary?

    Do you think there's any chance she might promote Esther McVey? She's wasted in the Whips office.
    Esther's appointment to the whips office was inexplicable (ie only Mrs May could do it), but the sooner she's back in a senior public role, the better.
    Or could it be part of a longer game, getting McVey to know the Parliamentary party in depth.....
    As Esther was attending cabinet until her narrow defeat in 2015, I imagine she already knows the MPs quite well. And of course with Philip Davies at her side.....
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 3,640

    May is more concerned with appointing bag-carriers in her own party head office than appointing secretaries of state to the cabinet.

    I'm sure that most voters think the NHS is more important than who is responsible for sending a weekly e-mail to Tory candidates.

    Most voters won't be aware of the order in which appointments were made. The timings of today will not change votes.
  • Anazina said:

    A very poorly composed, unprofessional looking photograph! Gaps between shoulders is a complete no-no when taking group portraits. Cleverly looks isolated, for example.

    Can't these blundering halfwits get anything right?
    oh for heavens sake! what a total "non-comment" on a complete "non-issue"....

    Indeed.
    Why can't we get back to the good old days of discussing how Jezza ties his tie and what Ed's dead dad said 70 years ago.
    This could all be avoided if Mrs May eats a bacon sandwich in public.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 4,550
    Danny565 said:

    HYUFD said:


    Given the median voter is about 55 the Tories could win even if they lost under 50s let alone under 40s if they had a big enough lead amongst over 50s.

    No Tory leader has won under 30s since 1983 but the Tories won 3 majorities and most seats twice since then

    The problem is the switchover age is likely to keep creeping up without something happening to change things, with the Conservatives in government and struggling that doesn't seem likely. Unless there really were masses of old Conservative voters who didn't vote last time but can be brought out this time as well as those who voted Conservative last time to counter the new voters coming in and some of the older ones dying off. They have to win voters just to maintain their current position considering demographic change, let alone make up for any they lose or Labour gain over the next few years.
    The defect in that argument is that there is a pool of prospective CON voters - the 65+ group who failed to turnout out at GE17 on anything like the scale pf previous elections. It was the diminished number of oldies for CON as well as the increased turnout by the young that caused the GE17 outcome. Alas JC doesn't appeal to his own generation and continues to get terrible ratings from them. Labour needs an "oldie-friendly" leader
    Where is the evidence that loads of Tory oldies abstained? If that happened, why was Tory support with pensioners who DID turn out vastly increased on 2015? Surely this suggests that the pensioner abstainers in 2017 were mostly Labour supporters?
    https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/how-britain-voted-2017-election
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 3,640
    I really don't think it counts as 'hilarious' at all.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 7,635
    Rudd in before Hammond is eyebrow-raising.
  • I really don't think it counts as 'hilarious' at all.
    Pretty funny from where I'm sitting and those well known Labour supporting lefties at The Sun agree.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 24,532
    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    Anazina said:

    Dadge said:

    Stop being such an apologist, Carlotta. You know that incompetence registers with voters.

    Carlotta is a one-woman Tory rebuttal bot operating under orders from Central Office.
    Pots and kettles.

    Guess again. Not a member of any party. Never will be.
    If your name, avatar and posting total is correct, you are new to politicalbetting.

    Within your grand total of 84 posts, I am yet to see a non-partisan, or non-trolling post from you.

    I'm sure there's more to you than that, so will wait to be impressed by the real you.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 2,026

    May is more concerned with appointing bag-carriers in her own party head office than appointing secretaries of state to the cabinet.

    I'm sure that most voters think the NHS is more important than who is responsible for sending a weekly e-mail to Tory candidates.

    Most voters won't be aware of the order in which appointments were made. The timings of today will not change votes.

    May is more concerned with appointing bag-carriers in her own party head office than appointing secretaries of state to the cabinet.

    I'm sure that most voters think the NHS is more important than who is responsible for sending a weekly e-mail to Tory candidates.

    Most voters won't be aware of the order in which appointments were made. The timings of today will not change votes.
    Indeed. Reshuffle will have no impact. An underfunded NHS, an education system failing our young people, a third world privatised railway system and the fact as the rich get richer, the rest of us get significantly poorer are the key issues. The Tories as clueless as they are have no interest in rectifying any of this - their loyalties will always be to their rich and powerful friends.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 923

    Danny565 said:

    HYUFD said:


    Given the median voter is about 55 the Tories could win even if they lost under 50s let alone under 40s if they had a big enough lead amongst over 50s.

    No Tory leader has won under 30s since 1983 but the Tories won 3 majorities and most seats twice since then

    The problem is the switchover age is likely to keep creeping up without something happening to change things, with the Conservatives in government and struggling that doesn't seem likely. Unless there really were masses of old Conservative voters who didn't vote last time but can be brought out this time as well as those who voted Conservative last time to counter the new voters coming in and some of the older ones dying off. They have to win voters just to maintain their current position considering demographic change, let alone make up for any they lose or Labour gain over the next few years.
    The defect in that argument is that there is a pool of prospective CON voters - the 65+ group who failed to turnout out at GE17 on anything like the scale pf previous elections. It was the diminished number of oldies for CON as well as the increased turnout by the young that caused the GE17 outcome. Alas JC doesn't appeal to his own generation and continues to get terrible ratings from them. Labour needs an "oldie-friendly" leader
    Where is the evidence that loads of Tory oldies abstained? If that happened, why was Tory support with pensioners who DID turn out vastly increased on 2015? Surely this suggests that the pensioner abstainers in 2017 were mostly Labour supporters?
    https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/how-britain-voted-2017-election

    Considering turnout fell 3% among 65+ and this group voted CON 61 LAB 25 doesn't that make it more likely the abstainers were Labour and other non Tory voters rather than Tories?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 24,532

    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    So far, so good with one result declared. Lewis was high on my must-promote list. Let's hope Anne Milton joins him in Cabinet this afternoon.

    Raab for Northern Ireland Secretary?

    Do you think there's any chance she might promote Esther McVey? She's wasted in the Whips office.
    Possible but don't forget he's only been a Minister of State for 6 months (having been dumped by May in 2016).

    Esther's appointment to the whips office was inexplicable (ie only Mrs May could do it), but the sooner she's back in a senior public role, the better.

    A leadership contest in 2021 between Hunt and McVey is one I could feel intensely comfortable about participating as an activist/member, being happy with either as victor.
    I really want her as Chancellor.

    I think her versus John McDonnell at the next election will be pure box office and not for the faint of heart.
    +1
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 6,872
    edited January 8

    Danny565 said:

    HYUFD said:


    Given the median voter is about 55 the Tories could win even if they lost under 50s let alone under 40s if they had a big enough lead amongst over 50s.

    No Tory leader has won under 30s since 1983 but the Tories won 3 majorities and most seats twice since then

    The problem is the switchover age is likely to keep creeping up without something happening to change things, with the Conservatives in government and struggling that doesn't seem likely. Unless there really were masses of old Conservative voters who didn't vote last time but can be brought out this time as well as those who voted Conservative last time to counter the new voters coming in and some of the older ones dying off. They have to win voters just to maintain their current position considering demographic change, let alone make up for any they lose or Labour gain over the next few years.
    The defect in that argument is that there is a pool of prospective CON voters - the 65+ group who failed to turnout out at GE17 on anything like the scale pf previous elections. It was the diminished number of oldies for CON as well as the increased turnout by the young that caused the GE17 outcome. Alas JC doesn't appeal to his own generation and continues to get terrible ratings from them. Labour needs an "oldie-friendly" leader
    Where is the evidence that loads of Tory oldies abstained? If that happened, why was Tory support with pensioners who DID turn out vastly increased on 2015? Surely this suggests that the pensioner abstainers in 2017 were mostly Labour supporters?
    https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/how-britain-voted-2017-election
    Yes, that link shows Tory support among 65+ was up on 2015 (up 14 points, compared to Labour up 3 points). This doesn't to me show that the dropoff in pensioner turnout was caused by Tory voters abstaining - quite the contrary, in fact.
  • Why is the Conservative Party Chairman now described as a piece of furniture by CCHQ? They really are having an off day.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 3,522
    Well, I hope things are going to liven up this afternoon. The appointment of a couple of party worthies doesn't really cut it. We need some big-name sackings. Only then can Theresa be credited with sufficient vim.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 24,532
    RoyalBlue said:

    For those of you who got all excited about a Twitter screw-up... there are no words. It really
    doesn’t matter. At all. A sense of perspective wouldn’t go amiss.

    Much easier to wait until everything’s been announced!

    My view too. A mistake anyone can make.

    I mean, OGH once moved the currency with a mistake.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 2,026
    stevef said:

    Before anyone announces that the Tories are bound to lose the next election because of a Cabinet reshuffle cock up, let us remember the occasion when Jeremy Corbyn took three weeks to reshuffle his cabinet, ran out of MPs who were willing to serve under him, and then appointed and sacked as a shadow cabinet minister an MP who was having cancer treatment without informing her either way. And then decided that the country was crying out for Diane Abbott as Home Secretary. When it comes to incompetence there is only one unchallenged master.......

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-labour-shadow-cabinet-thangam-debbonaire-cancer-a7141341.html

    Desperate switch and bait stuff there...

    Look in the mirror - the Tories need to be ejected out of power and quickly...
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 5,544
    Nigelb said:

    Is that the Grayling gap ?
    No, the Invisible Man has been brought in from the cold.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 14,574
    edited January 8
    David Lidington and then Amber Rudd at no 10
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 6,380
    Clearly no-one will notice today's small mistake.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 1,447

    Clearly no-one will notice today's small mistake.
    :)
  • Clearly no-one will notice today's small mistake.
    So London's top paper, and The Sun both focusing on this mistake.
  • Nobody will notice/only Osborne fans will focus on it.

  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 2,334
    Absolutely pathetic. Only obsessives and partisans care about who’s tweeted what.

    What a small man your hero is.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 2,026

    Well, I hope things are going to liven up this afternoon. The appointment of a couple of party worthies doesn't really cut it. We need some big-name sackings. Only then can Theresa be credited with sufficient vim.

    Indeed. Two for starters...

    Johnson should be sacked for sheer incompetence. He is a massive security risk for citizens of this country. Also he is a disengious liar who only cares about his pathetic self.

    Davies should be sacked for being clueless on how to negotiate with our EU friends. Even though he comes across a congenial man unlike the c*nt Johnson, he is totally out of his depth.

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 6,380
    If May is rejigging the very top jobs in the cabinet, then fair play, she has been able to keep this news under wraps.

    Alternatively Rudd has been invited round for an Avon meeting.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 14,574
    murali_s said:

    stevef said:

    Before anyone announces that the Tories are bound to lose the next election because of a Cabinet reshuffle cock up, let us remember the occasion when Jeremy Corbyn took three weeks to reshuffle his cabinet, ran out of MPs who were willing to serve under him, and then appointed and sacked as a shadow cabinet minister an MP who was having cancer treatment without informing her either way. And then decided that the country was crying out for Diane Abbott as Home Secretary. When it comes to incompetence there is only one unchallenged master.......

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-labour-shadow-cabinet-thangam-debbonaire-cancer-a7141341.html

    Desperate switch and bait stuff there...

    Look in the mirror - the Tories need to be ejected out of power and quickly...
    Not going to happen for another 4 years
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 19,820
    tpfkar said:

    Anazina said:

    A very poorly composed, unprofessional looking photograph! Gaps between shoulders is a complete no-no when taking group portraits. Cleverly looks isolated, for example.

    Can't these blundering halfwits get anything right?
    I don't much care about shoulders in photos, but it says a lot about the Government that they have done all the party stuff first, and only then the actual departmental changes. Party before country subliminals yet again.
    Boring administrative stuff got out of the way before turning to the important things?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 10,003
    So far, I am wondering why the PM thought this was worth all the trailing and build up?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 66,813
    edited January 8
    Lidington not appointed First Secretary of State
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 1,447
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Anazina said:

    A very poorly composed, unprofessional looking photograph! Gaps between shoulders is a complete no-no when taking group portraits. Cleverly looks isolated, for example.

    Can't these blundering halfwits get anything right?
    I think it's the same bloke at both ends and he's done the running-round-the-back thing.
    Ha ha – yes! :)
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 6,872
    I suspect Hammond is getting the sack.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 2,026
    RoyalBlue said:

    Absolutely pathetic. Only obsessives and partisans care about who’s tweeted what.

    What a small man your hero is.
    FFS, why can’t he post this? Some of you Tory loons are losing it...
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 19,820

    JohnO said:

    So far, so good with one result declared. Lewis was high on my must-promote list. Let's hope Anne Milton joins him in Cabinet this afternoon.

    Raab for Northern Ireland Secretary?

    Do you think there's any chance she might promote Esther McVey? She's wasted in the Whips office.
    I agree with you regarding #Esther4Leader - she should be in front of the cameras, not locked away in a back office.
    May giving her a chance to get to know all the MPs.

    Isn't the Chief Whip traditionally the bully and the Deputy Chief the one who kisses and makes up afterwards?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 15,130
    Danny565 said:

    I suspect Hammond is getting the sack.

    I doubt it, the budget was fairly well received and he'd be another awkward remainer on the back benches no longer bound to the government position.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 18,098
    murali_s said:

    stevef said:

    Before anyone announces that the Tories are bound to lose the next election because of a Cabinet reshuffle cock up, let us remember the occasion when Jeremy Corbyn took three weeks to reshuffle his cabinet, ran out of MPs who were willing to serve under him, and then appointed and sacked as a shadow cabinet minister an MP who was having cancer treatment without informing her either way. And then decided that the country was crying out for Diane Abbott as Home Secretary. When it comes to incompetence there is only one unchallenged master.......

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-labour-shadow-cabinet-thangam-debbonaire-cancer-a7141341.html

    Desperate switch and bait stuff there...

    Look in the mirror - the Tories need to be ejected out of power and quickly...
    Why? For getting more votes and more seats than your lot?

    I realise that all the Glastonbury Guff about being PM by Christmas made your man look a pillock, but we aren't moving anytime soon, just to make him look less so....
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 1,447

    I'm most interested to see what happens with Greening. If she's sacked entirely then she's very unlikely to go quietly. May doesn't need another high-profile Remainer foe on the backbenches.

    I struggle to see what she's done wrong that merits sacking. Ok, she was hardly effusively pro-grammars. Fine: the country has bigger issues to worry about right now. And May reportedly doesn't like her. That's as may be, but we all have to work with people we don't like.

    Replacing a safe pair of hands at Education with someone more likely to do May's bidding, in an age of desperately tight budgets, is very unlikely to generate vote-winning headlines, nor endear many parents to this government.

    Yes, it would be a sad end. She was once hailed as the young, bright face of modern Toryism; now Theresa holds her in contempt because of her worthless prattling in Cabinet. Once Greening is gone we can say with conviction that the sun's finally set on the Cameron era.
    Greening is one of the best education secretaries ever – not only is she liberal, personable and caring, she has resisted the temptation to meddle, and has done precisely nothing in the policy field since her arrival. Teachers think she is great for that very reason. Hyperactive education secretaries of Gove's ilk are to be studiously avoided.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 18,098
    So we have Jones the Vice Chair and Jones the Vice Chair Too
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 1,447

    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    Anazina said:

    Dadge said:

    Stop being such an apologist, Carlotta. You know that incompetence registers with voters.

    Carlotta is a one-woman Tory rebuttal bot operating under orders from Central Office.
    Pots and kettles.

    Guess again. Not a member of any party. Never will be.
    If your name, avatar and posting total is correct, you are new to politicalbetting.

    Within your grand total of 84 posts, I am yet to see a non-partisan, or non-trolling post from you.

    I'm sure there's more to you than that, so will wait to be impressed by the real you.
    My job is not to impress you, Mr Bond.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 14,574
    IanB2 said:

    So far, I am wondering why the PM thought this was worth all the trailing and build up?

    Give it time
  • We're losing a very thoughtful Justice Secretary
  • basicbridgebasicbridge Posts: 132
    Normal PB anorak commentary on the Grayling and the reshuffle.

    Just to reiterate: THE GREAT BRITISH PUBLIC DOESNT CARE.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 13,665
    RoyalBlue said:

    Absolutely pathetic. Only obsessives and partisans care about who’s tweeted what.

    What a small man your hero is.
    obsessives, partisans, and advertisers, presumably, for whom the higher the distribution of ES the better.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 2,026

    murali_s said:

    stevef said:

    Before anyone announces that the Tories are bound to lose the next election because of a Cabinet reshuffle cock up, let us remember the occasion when Jeremy Corbyn took three weeks to reshuffle his cabinet, ran out of MPs who were willing to serve under him, and then appointed and sacked as a shadow cabinet minister an MP who was having cancer treatment without informing her either way. And then decided that the country was crying out for Diane Abbott as Home Secretary. When it comes to incompetence there is only one unchallenged master.......

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-labour-shadow-cabinet-thangam-debbonaire-cancer-a7141341.html

    Desperate switch and bait stuff there...

    Look in the mirror - the Tories need to be ejected out of power and quickly...
    Not going to happen for another 4 years
    That’s what you hope. It will be quicker than that. Let alone many Tory MP fruitcakes, you have to rely on the 10 lunatics from the DUP.
  • So we have Jones the Vice Chair and Jones the Vice Chair Too

    Don't Panic.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 37,213
    @JBeattieMirror: Theresa May has appointed Maria Caulfield, who opposed legislation to decriminalise abortion, as the Tory vice chair for women
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 3,197
    So a vacancy at Justice - perhaps Dom Raab will be promoted to SoS but I think it unlikely.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 6,872
    MaxPB said:

    Danny565 said:

    I suspect Hammond is getting the sack.

    I doubt it, the budget was fairly well received and he'd be another awkward remainer on the back benches no longer bound to the government position.
    A bit odd they would confirm Home before Chancellor, if no changes planned....
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 20,130
    For a very negative review of the Michael Wolff book, the New Yorker pulls no punches:



    I completely disagree: this is tabloid journalism at its best. Unlike the "serious" journalists, Michael Wolff gives us a sense of the circus.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 10,200
    brendan16 said:

    marke09 said:

    Matthew Moore‏ @mattkmoore

    NEW: BBC staff told that anyone who has indicated support for Carrie Gracie, or tweeted an opinion about BBC pay, can no longer present any segments on BBC pay.
    12:59 PM - 8 Jan 2018

    The BBC are doing their best to make the Tory party look competent by comparison.
    She publicly criticises her employers, quits her job, then walks into another job with the BBC.

    Most people would get sacked for attacking their employer in public. She could always see how much Russia today or Al Jazeera would pay her on the open market?

    Brave would be resigning and leaving the BBC entirely.
    What I don't understand is why she is saying that she doesn't want more money. What then is the point of all this hoo ha? If she is underpaid then she bloody well ought to get more money. Agreeing to stay underpaid and turning down a pay increase is simply prolonging the problem.
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 948
    Charles said:

    tpfkar said:

    Anazina said:

    A very poorly composed, unprofessional looking photograph! Gaps between shoulders is a complete no-no when taking group portraits. Cleverly looks isolated, for example.

    Can't these blundering halfwits get anything right?
    I don't much care about shoulders in photos, but it says a lot about the Government that they have done all the party stuff first, and only then the actual departmental changes. Party before country subliminals yet again.
    Boring administrative stuff got out of the way before turning to the important things?
    Let's hope so.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 42,735
    David Lidington confirmed as the new Cabinet Office Minister but there will be no First Secretary

    https://mobile.twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/950365774266425345
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,183

    murali_s said:

    stevef said:

    Before anyone announces that the Tories are bound to lose the next election because of a Cabinet reshuffle cock up, let us remember the occasion when Jeremy Corbyn took three weeks to reshuffle his cabinet, ran out of MPs who were willing to serve under him, and then appointed and sacked as a shadow cabinet minister an MP who was having cancer treatment without informing her either way. And then decided that the country was crying out for Diane Abbott as Home Secretary. When it comes to incompetence there is only one unchallenged master.......

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-labour-shadow-cabinet-thangam-debbonaire-cancer-a7141341.html

    Desperate switch and bait stuff there...

    Look in the mirror - the Tories need to be ejected out of power and quickly...
    Why? For getting more votes and more seats than your lot?

    I realise that all the Glastonbury Guff about being PM by Christmas made your man look a pillock, but we aren't moving anytime soon, just to make him look less so....
    Meanwhile May just has to give a speech at her own party conference....
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 2,334
    murali_s said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Absolutely pathetic. Only obsessives and partisans care about who’s tweeted what.

    What a small man your hero is.
    FFS, why can’t he post this? Some of you Tory loons are losing it...
    He can. My fire is targeted at Osborne, who is continuing to demonstrate the emotional maturity of a spoilt child.

    Gove was a giant by comparison when he was sacked. Then again, he cares about things greater than himself.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 18,098

    murali_s said:

    stevef said:

    Before anyone announces that the Tories are bound to lose the next election because of a Cabinet reshuffle cock up, let us remember the occasion when Jeremy Corbyn took three weeks to reshuffle his cabinet, ran out of MPs who were willing to serve under him, and then appointed and sacked as a shadow cabinet minister an MP who was having cancer treatment without informing her either way. And then decided that the country was crying out for Diane Abbott as Home Secretary. When it comes to incompetence there is only one unchallenged master.......

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-labour-shadow-cabinet-thangam-debbonaire-cancer-a7141341.html

    Desperate switch and bait stuff there...

    Look in the mirror - the Tories need to be ejected out of power and quickly...
    Not going to happen for another 4 years
    In 4 years, Corbyn will look very stale. He won't fight that election.
  • JohnO said:

    So a vacancy at Justice - perhaps Dom Raab will be promoted to SoS but I think it unlikely.

    A few people think he's headed to Northern Ireland.

    But I reckon give the importance of the role at the moment she'll give Norn Iron to a friend.

    But where's Hunt going to go?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 11,792

    Normal PB anorak commentary on the Grayling and the reshuffle.

    Just to reiterate: THE GREAT BRITISH PUBLIC DOESNT CARE.

    Thanks awfully for caring enough to SHOUT that at us.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 509

    I'm most interested to see what happens with Greening. If she's sacked entirely then she's very unlikely to go quietly. May doesn't need another high-profile Remainer foe on the backbenches.

    I struggle to see what she's done wrong that merits sacking. Ok, she was hardly effusively pro-grammars. Fine: the country has bigger issues to worry about right now. And May reportedly doesn't like her. That's as may be, but we all have to work with people we don't like.

    Replacing a safe pair of hands at Education with someone more likely to do May's bidding, in an age of desperately tight budgets, is very unlikely to generate vote-winning headlines, nor endear many parents to this government.

    Yes, it would be a sad end. She was once hailed as the young, bright face of modern Toryism; now Theresa holds her in contempt because of her worthless prattling in Cabinet. Once Greening is gone we can say with conviction that the sun's finally set on the Cameron era.
    Well put.

    "Worthless prattling" in any meeting is as much a reflection on the chairman as it is on the prattler, of course.
This discussion has been closed.