Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Toby Young quits so helping TMay by taking the attention away

SystemSystem Posts: 5,841
edited January 9 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Toby Young quits so helping TMay by taking the attention away from her bungled reshuffle

Toby Young resigns as May's universities adviser over 'ill-judged' sexist tweets https://t.co/sZbBp9VB3i pic.twitter.com/oFcKOcvje9

Read the full story here


«1345

Comments

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 20,361
    Said it all on the last thread. The government needs a grip.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 20,361
    Is this one of these magical mystery threads doomed to disappear/be replaced by a different version?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 9,885
    edited January 9
    Second!

    Appointing and then de-appointing Tony either side of another botch-up; cunning worthy of Baldrick....
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 36,496
    Toby Young quitting does not distract attention. It brings the hapless reshuffle into sharp focus.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 41,615
    A shame as Young has some good ideas despite his mistakes. Of course Bullingdon Club indiscretions did not stop Cameron winning general elections or Boris mayoral elections
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 19,967
    "You can’t plead youthful indiscretion for things in your late 40s"

    You can if you've never grown up. Although in that case, you're probably better off not having a responsible role.

    It's another utterly avoidable mistake by this government. Yet Labour still looks worse ....
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 36,496
    I am confused by the Greg Clark thing

    May allegedly wanted to sack him. She wanted Hunt instead. Hunt refused. OK

    May could still have sacked Clark, and promoted a backbencher
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 17,804
    Disgraceful ageist header from OGH - he must surely resign.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 20,361
    IanB2 said:

    Second!

    Appointing and then de-appointing Tony either side of another botch-up; cunning worthy of Baldrick....

    I am not up with social media but even I am familiar with the idea that you don't feed the trolls. Someone should have done some due diligence on Young before his appointment and decided this was a bad idea. Alternatively, they should have stuck it out. To be dragged, kicking and screaming to do the right thing, as Jess Philips puts it, is really the worst of all worlds. The trolls have been fed and will be even noisier and harder to resist the next time.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited January 9
    DavidL said:

    Pong said:

    The wanker's gone.

    Before Christmas in fact. Do keep up.
    no no

    Damien wasn't a wanker. He was a liar, which was why he had to go. Toby's case is quite different. It was his lack of lying about wanking over poor people wot got him into trouble.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 1,851
    edited January 9
    What the Independent said, which is the source of the "stains" allegation:

    "Writing about class in a 1988 book called The Oxford Myth, Young recounted how the arrival of “stains” – as working-class students were known – had changed the university."
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/toby-young-free-school-pioneer-described-working-class-grammar-school-boys-at-oxford-as-universally-10517380.html

    What the petition said:

    "Young also once referred to state school undergraduates at Oxford and Cambridge as "stains".
    https://www.change.org/p/theresa-may-mp-sack-toby-young-from-university-watchdog-post

    A reporting of the terminology of the time - 1988 or so? - turned into a personally concocted insult by people wanting to damage Young. Technically true - maybe, but doctored to tickle the outrage muscle.

    Unfortunately twitter-led smear campaigns seem to work in the current media landscape.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 28,617
    From t’other version:

    This will be used by CON opponents in the same way that the the Bullingdon club connection was used against Cameron

    Who was Prime Minister.

    You don’t see any difference between a serving Prime Minister and a journalist’s brief appointment to a quango?

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 43,173
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. P, why the confusion? The scenario you outline is perfectly explained by May having poor judgement.

    On-topic: perhaps he and Grayling could form a club.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 9,885
    If only the same standards were applies to Boris, whose indiscretions are never-ending.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 17,804
    IanB2 said:

    If only the same standards were applies to Boris, whose indiscretions are never-ending.

    Vaz, O Mara, Corbyn - they must all be next right ?
  • Poor Toby.

    If saying caustic things about the working class is a bar to high office then I’m so glad I never went into politics.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 1,851
    I think OGH's last para is about right. You either face down the mob or you risk becoming the next victim.

    A pity.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 41,615
    edited January 9
    IanB2 said:

    If only the same standards were applies to Boris, whose indiscretions are never-ending.

    They did not stop him becoming London Mayor, they may not even stop him becoming PM.

    As Berlusconi and Trump proved even if the liberal left think you are the most repulsive sexist show off and despise you if you are charismatic you can still win if you win over enough of the lower middle and white working class
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 28,617
    TGOHF said:

    IanB2 said:

    If only the same standards were applies to Boris, whose indiscretions are never-ending.

    Vaz, O Mara, Corbyn - they must all be next right ?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 43,173
    Mr. Flashman (deceased), quite.

    Mr. Eagles, hasn't harmed Chuka Umunna.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 9,885
    The sack Toby petition had passed 220,000
  • Anyhoo, praise unto Mrs May for promoting Esther McVey.

    If she becomes Chancellor before the next election then Esther McVey will be using John McDonnell’s bollocks for garters.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 28,617
    This will be spoiling a few Guardian breakfasts:

  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 8,249
    Does this mean we will never find out what this new Office for Students (quangos are bad, right?) actually does?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 9,885
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    If only the same standards were applies to Boris, whose indiscretions are never-ending.

    They did not stop him becoming London Mayor, they may not even stop him becoming PM.

    As Berlusconi and Trump proved even if the liberal left think you are the most repulsive sexist show off and despise you if you are charismatic you can still win if you win over enough of the lower middle and white working class
    You are clearly trolling in the hope that someone makes an inappropriate remark about tissues.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 41,615
    edited January 9

    This will be spoiling a few Guardian breakfasts:

    Corbyn is more ideologically opposed to the single market and ECJ than May, it is just free movement May has an issue with
  • FenmanFenman Posts: 275
    For those few still vaguely interested in the fate of the Lib Dems a quick look at Lib Dem Voice today where they are explaining their new policy of total censorship might amuse. This goes a long way towards explaining why I, as a lifetime Liberal and Lib Dem, have to join others in seeing the party as being in its death throes. Liberalism has never been more needed and never more poorly represented.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 9,875
    Ploughing through Fall Out; it's now clear that the only people who think we could remain in the SM and or CU are our very own - WG etc....

    The Govt decided in early 2017 that it wasn't possible.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 20,361
    Pong said:

    DavidL said:

    Pong said:

    The wanker's gone.

    Before Christmas in fact. Do keep up.
    no no

    Damien wasn't a wanker. He was a liar, which was why he had to go. Toby's case is quite different. It was his lack of lying about wanking over poor people wot got him into trouble.
    He lied about whether he was told there was porn on his office computer. Which he would have been under a duty to investigate the source of if he had been told. Which he didn’t want to do. For some reason.

    Your willingness to give the benefit of the doubt is exemplary.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 65,698
    edited January 9
    Oh dear

    Trevor Bayliss will not renew his contract as England cricket head coach when it expires in September next year.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 8,602
    You can’t plead youthful indiscretion for things in your late 40s
    I think you could but only if you were really, really old.

    We could repurpose the Half Your Age Plus 7 rule for this.
  • As for Mike’s final paragraph, there’s one key difference, for most of Dave’s leadership the voters liked Dave.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 10,466
    Scott_P said:

    I am confused by the Greg Clark thing

    May allegedly wanted to sack him. She wanted Hunt instead. Hunt refused. OK

    May could still have sacked Clark, and promoted a backbencher

    I don't think she's very flexible and simply didn't have a Plan B, so when Hunt refused to move, she had to make an immediate decision (she couldn't have postponed a Cabinet decision into the next day), she presumably just thought, "Oh, damn, I'll have to let Clark stay then".

    You'd think that any government would have a shortlist of backbenchers who they'd like to promote when an opportunity arose, but perhaps she doesn't. I don't dislike May, who I think is fundamentally a decent woman doing her best, but at a purely managerial level she doesn't seem entirely up to the job.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 11,651
    Not bad on the chortle scale.

    Contra the loyalists' chorus for the last week, it appears Toby also managed to annoy a decent amount of the wrong people. Good to see that cronyism and nepotism has its limits.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 5,836
    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    Second!

    Appointing and then de-appointing Tony either side of another botch-up; cunning worthy of Baldrick....

    I am not up with social media but even I am familiar with the idea that you don't feed the trolls. Someone should have done some due diligence on Young before his appointment and decided this was a bad idea. Alternatively, they should have stuck it out. To be dragged, kicking and screaming to do the right thing, as Jess Philips puts it, is really the worst of all worlds. The trolls have been fed and will be even noisier and harder to resist the next time.
    You seem to be missing the point that Young was himself one of the trolls.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 43,173
    Mr. Palmer, whilst that might be true the lack of contingency plan (as you mention with the lack of shortlist) just seems odd.

    It's common for reshuffles to have people who either won't move or will but only to job X etc. This isn't a weird thing that couldn't've been predicted.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 6,466
    Mortimer said:

    Ploughing through Fall Out; it's now clear that the only people who think we could remain in the SM and or CU are our very own - WG etc....

    The Govt decided in early 2017 that it wasn't possible.

    Mortimer said:

    Ploughing through Fall Out; it's now clear that the only people who think we could remain in the SM and or CU are our very own - WG etc....

    The Govt decided in early 2017 that it wasn't possible.

    Good morning all.

    It's one of the aspects of Brexit that has puzzled me. The Single Market is a club, with clear rules - among which are the four freedoms. HMG has decided that freedom of movement must end. That renders us ineligible. I think there has been deliberate conflation of 'access to' and 'membership of' by some politicians.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,144
    edited January 9
    Bloody hell, missed most of yesterday thanks to work and time zones, woke up to about 1500 comments!

    I can understand someone not wanting to become the story, but Toby Young’s resignation only means the TwitterMob now think they “won”, and will only be worse the next time someone they don’t like gets appointed to a minor non-exec role on a quango.

    As expected, Cabinet reshuffle low-key and mostly forced on the PM by illness, crapness and lies from the three who stood down. Great to see social care move under Hunt, hopefully an early sign of some joined-up thinking - the lack of which is treating people badly and costing a lot of money in beds being blocked. Also a great opportunity for Esther McVey after Justine turned down a promotion and threatened to derail the PM’s plans.

    Of course everyone who wasn’t promoted, the media and Opposition are saying it was a shambles etc. Mandy Rice-Davies applies.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 11,651

    As for Mike’s final paragraph, there’s one key difference, for most of Dave’s leadership the voters liked Dave.

    Yeah, for all the repeating of the meme and Tory Morrisons fish counter photo op sensitivity, it wasn't quite the silver bullet it should have been.
  • Theresa May: shuffled out

    The prime minister of the “just about managing” can no longer manage herself

    https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/theresa-may-shuffled-out
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,144

    Oh dear

    Trevor Bayliss will not renew his contract as England cricket head coach when it expires in September next year.

    LOL, he should have been fired in disgrace along with the selectors. One crap Melbourne pitch away from a whitewash, and with two of the matches ending in innings defeats.

    Eleven random county players could have done better than the side that played, and they chose to handicap themselves by dropping Stokes.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 9,885

    Scott_P said:

    I am confused by the Greg Clark thing

    May allegedly wanted to sack him. She wanted Hunt instead. Hunt refused. OK

    May could still have sacked Clark, and promoted a backbencher

    I don't think she's very flexible and simply didn't have a Plan B, so when Hunt refused to move, she had to make an immediate decision (she couldn't have postponed a Cabinet decision into the next day), she presumably just thought, "Oh, damn, I'll have to let Clark stay then".

    You'd think that any government would have a shortlist of backbenchers who they'd like to promote when an opportunity arose, but perhaps she doesn't. I don't dislike May, who I think is fundamentally a decent woman doing her best, but at a purely managerial level she doesn't seem entirely up to the job.
    Theresa the Unready?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 14,798
    HYUFD said:

    This will be spoiling a few Guardian breakfasts:

    Corbyn is more ideologically opposed to the single market and ECJ than May, it is just free movement May has an issue with
    Morning all,

    And what an excellent summary of the current position. When will the cultists wake up, and see who Corbyn really is?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,144
    Fenman said:

    For those few still vaguely interested in the fate of the Lib Dems a quick look at Lib Dem Voice today where they are explaining their new policy of total censorship might amuse. This goes a long way towards explaining why I, as a lifetime Liberal and Lib Dem, have to join others in seeing the party as being in its death throes. Liberalism has never been more needed and never more poorly represented.

    The LDs need a serious reboot, hopefully this will happen after Brexit and their obsession with opposing it. Plenty of Conservatives (myself included) who would vote for a party that stands up for liberal values - but not while the LDs are obsessed by EU membership.
  • Can any of PB’s darts fans tell me why Phil Taylor wasn’t given a life ban when he was convicted of being a pervert?

    Ok it was in the diddy Scottish legal system but still.
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,098

    Anyhoo, praise unto Mrs May for promoting Esther McVey.

    If she becomes Chancellor before the next election then Esther McVey will be using John McDonnell’s bollocks for garters.

    She's already being set up for the UC mess and fail, her "nickname" doing the rounds is McVile. If she can sort it out then she has a chance, however small, to be Chancellor, but I'm certainly putting any money on it. Even Greening could see the job was a poisoned chalice...
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 6,466
    IanB2 said:

    Scott_P said:

    I am confused by the Greg Clark thing

    May allegedly wanted to sack him. She wanted Hunt instead. Hunt refused. OK

    May could still have sacked Clark, and promoted a backbencher

    I don't think she's very flexible and simply didn't have a Plan B, so when Hunt refused to move, she had to make an immediate decision (she couldn't have postponed a Cabinet decision into the next day), she presumably just thought, "Oh, damn, I'll have to let Clark stay then".

    You'd think that any government would have a shortlist of backbenchers who they'd like to promote when an opportunity arose, but perhaps she doesn't. I don't dislike May, who I think is fundamentally a decent woman doing her best, but at a purely managerial level she doesn't seem entirely up to the job.
    Theresa the Unready?
    Possibly, though in the original sense of 'unræd' or 'ill-counselled'.
  • As for Mike’s final paragraph, there’s one key difference, for most of Dave’s leadership the voters liked Dave.

    Yeah, for all the repeating of the meme and Tory Morrisons fish counter photo op sensitivity, it wasn't quite the silver bullet it should have been.
    He’d have been toast if he had gone to Morrisons on Rebekah Brooks’ horse.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 9,387
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    Second!

    Appointing and then de-appointing Tony either side of another botch-up; cunning worthy of Baldrick....

    I am not up with social media but even I am familiar with the idea that you don't feed the trolls. Someone should have done some due diligence on Young before his appointment and decided this was a bad idea. Alternatively, they should have stuck it out. To be dragged, kicking and screaming to do the right thing, as Jess Philips puts it, is really the worst of all worlds. The trolls have been fed and will be even noisier and harder to resist the next time.
    You seem to be missing the point that Young was himself one of the trolls.
    Right wing columnists are never trolls.

    They are asking tough questions.
    Airing debate about controversial topics.
    Bring their laser like caustic wit to a subject
    Etc.
  • eekeek Posts: 1,995

    You can’t plead youthful indiscretion for things in your late 40s
    I think you could but only if you were really, really old.

    We could repurpose the Half Your Age Plus 7 rule for this.

    The issue here is that people publish on Twitter the things you would say with your mates down the pub. And as it’s clear most people (including supposedly intelligent people) don’t understand social media this story is going to continue for years.

    Separately

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 9,885
    John_M said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_P said:

    I am confused by the Greg Clark thing

    May allegedly wanted to sack him. She wanted Hunt instead. Hunt refused. OK

    May could still have sacked Clark, and promoted a backbencher

    I don't think she's very flexible and simply didn't have a Plan B, so when Hunt refused to move, she had to make an immediate decision (she couldn't have postponed a Cabinet decision into the next day), she presumably just thought, "Oh, damn, I'll have to let Clark stay then".

    You'd think that any government would have a shortlist of backbenchers who they'd like to promote when an opportunity arose, but perhaps she doesn't. I don't dislike May, who I think is fundamentally a decent woman doing her best, but at a purely managerial level she doesn't seem entirely up to the job.
    Theresa the Unready?
    Possibly, though in the original sense of 'unræd' or 'ill-counselled'.
    I sense she has been through both.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 26,362
    It's just bizarre that no-one bothered to do even a cursory due diligence on Young before he was given the job. A Brexit-backing personal friend of Michael Gove and Boris Johnson with a long track record of provocative, offensive Tweeting and writing lefty-baiting articles was always going to be a target; and it was not as if he was uniquely qualified to do the job asked of him. It's just another example of how weak the PM is that it even got to the stage it did. Sadly, the Corbyn firewall means the country has years more of this shambolic government to come.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 65,698
    edited January 9
    OchEye said:

    Anyhoo, praise unto Mrs May for promoting Esther McVey.

    If she becomes Chancellor before the next election then Esther McVey will be using John McDonnell’s bollocks for garters.

    She's already being set up for the UC mess and fail, her "nickname" doing the rounds is McVile. If she can sort it out then she has a chance, however small, to be Chancellor, but I'm certainly putting any money on it. Even Greening could see the job was a poisoned chalice...
    McVile is the name the vile cretins that want to hang her use.

    It is a useful moron/troll detector.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 26,362
    John_M said:

    Mortimer said:

    Ploughing through Fall Out; it's now clear that the only people who think we could remain in the SM and or CU are our very own - WG etc....

    The Govt decided in early 2017 that it wasn't possible.

    Mortimer said:

    Ploughing through Fall Out; it's now clear that the only people who think we could remain in the SM and or CU are our very own - WG etc....

    The Govt decided in early 2017 that it wasn't possible.

    Good morning all.

    It's one of the aspects of Brexit that has puzzled me. The Single Market is a club, with clear rules - among which are the four freedoms. HMG has decided that freedom of movement must end. That renders us ineligible. I think there has been deliberate conflation of 'access to' and 'membership of' by some politicians.

    We will leave the SM in name only. We will restrict freedom of movement in name only. From here on in it is all going to be about symbolism. On a practical basis, nothing much is going to change. It will literally all come down to the colour of passports and other things like that - and for most people that will be enough.

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 13,276
    edited January 9
    Not a great 48 hours for the government and we have another day of it to go with the Beeb trailing that anyone not white is in with a shout to become a junior minister. Quite how this will address worries over inclusion beats me.

    As to the summation of events, @DavidL put it so well on the previous thread I will reproduce his comment for the benefit of late arrivals to the den of iniquity PB.
    DavidL said:

    Toby Young is a prat who is not nearly as witty or funny or clever as he thinks he is but taking days of twitterstorm only to have him quit as the caravan moved on to the reshuffle shambles seems the worst possible outcome for the government once again.

    This government so needs a manager like Osborne was for Cameron or Mandelson was latterly for Brown. The idea that Green could fulfil that role was pretty laughable but is there anyone who thinks that Lidington is up to that job? Without some central grip we are condemned to more of the same, drift on the currents of world affairs without a paddle and with the odd capsize.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 5,836

    Oh dear

    Trevor Bayliss will not renew his contract as England cricket head coach when it expires in September next year.

    I have to agree with George Dobell that's pretty well irrelevant.
    http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/22000001/tea-sympathy-suffice-england-face-another-drubbing
    …the trouble is much higher up the pyramid than that. The problem is the ECB chief executive, Tom Harrison, trying to kid us that English cricket is in good health, and Andrew Strauss who has achieved little in his time as director of England cricket other than settling a couple of old scores: getting rid of Peter Moores and Kevin Pietersen. If teams are judged by their success in global events - as Strauss has always said - it is worth remembering they did worse in the 2017 Champions Trophy than the 2013 Champions Trophy.

    Blaming Stokes or Bayliss or Root for this loss will solve nothing. It's more fundamental change - and an acknowledgement of their problems - that England require…
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 18,988
    HYUFD said:

    A shame as Young has some good ideas despite his mistakes. Of course Bullingdon Club indiscretions did not stop Cameron winning general elections or Boris mayoral elections

    we have enough obnoxious odious elite creeps F******* up the country, good riddance to bad rubbish.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 18,988
    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    Second!

    Appointing and then de-appointing Tony either side of another botch-up; cunning worthy of Baldrick....

    I am not up with social media but even I am familiar with the idea that you don't feed the trolls. Someone should have done some due diligence on Young before his appointment and decided this was a bad idea. Alternatively, they should have stuck it out. To be dragged, kicking and screaming to do the right thing, as Jess Philips puts it, is really the worst of all worlds. The trolls have been fed and will be even noisier and harder to resist the next time.
    Maybe if they choose someone fit for the role and not an obvious Richard Head they will not have so much trouble
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 2,547
    So what happened to the Minister for No Brexit idea?

    One of the mad sub-plots from a day of general uselessness.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 6,236
    What time does the vigil start?

    #PrayForToby

    #JeSuisToby

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 11,651
    Essexit said:
    If you genuinely think having the choice to vote or not for any politician is comparable to having an opinion about a non-transparent government appointment by a pal of the appointee, you're a fucking idiot.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 15,158
    edited January 9

    John_M said:

    Mortimer said:

    Ploughing through Fall Out; it's now clear that the only people who think we could remain in the SM and or CU are our very own - WG etc....

    The Govt decided in early 2017 that it wasn't possible.

    Mortimer said:

    Ploughing through Fall Out; it's now clear that the only people who think we could remain in the SM and or CU are our very own - WG etc....

    The Govt decided in early 2017 that it wasn't possible.

    Good morning all.

    It's one of the aspects of Brexit that has puzzled me. The Single Market is a club, with clear rules - among which are the four freedoms. HMG has decided that freedom of movement must end. That renders us ineligible. I think there has been deliberate conflation of 'access to' and 'membership of' by some politicians.

    We will leave the SM in name only. We will restrict freedom of movement in name only. From here on in it is all going to be about symbolism. On a practical basis, nothing much is going to change. It will literally all come down to the colour of passports and other things like that - and for most people that will be enough.

    Sorry but I think that is wishful thinking. The EU is a club with rules for a reason. They are not going to let us become semi detached and undermine the basic principles of their club just to make things easy for May.

    Anything that undermines or circumvents the four freedoms will end up in front of the ECJ very quickly indeed. And they certainly won't be interested in smokescreens.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 18,988

    Anyhoo, praise unto Mrs May for promoting Esther McVey.

    If she becomes Chancellor before the next election then Esther McVey will be using John McDonnell’s bollocks for garters.

    Not many poor will be cheering that is for sure.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 14,798
    TOPPING said:

    Not a great 48 hours for the government and we have another day of it to go with the Beeb trailing that anyone not white is in with a shout to become a junior minister. Quite how this will address worries over inclusion beats me.

    As to the summation of events, @DavidL put it so well on the previous thread I will reproduce his comment for the benefit of late arrivals to the den of iniquity PB.

    DavidL said:

    Toby Young is a prat who is not nearly as witty or funny or clever as he thinks he is but taking days of twitterstorm only to have him quit as the caravan moved on to the reshuffle shambles seems the worst possible outcome for the government once again.

    This government so needs a manager like Osborne was for Cameron or Mandelson was latterly for Brown. The idea that Green could fulfil that role was pretty laughable but is there anyone who thinks that Lidington is up to that job? Without some central grip we are condemned to more of the same, drift on the currents of world affairs without a paddle and with the odd capsize.

    May better not be demoting Rory.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,144

    Essexit said:
    If you genuinely think having the choice to vote or not for any politician is comparable to having an opinion about a non-transparent government appointment by a pal of the appointee, you're a fucking idiot.
    There are those critical of Miss Hartley-Brewer.

    She has her knockers.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 6,466
    edited January 9

    John_M said:

    Mortimer said:

    Ploughing through Fall Out; it's now clear that the only people who think we could remain in the SM and or CU are our very own - WG etc....

    The Govt decided in early 2017 that it wasn't possible.

    Mortimer said:

    Ploughing through Fall Out; it's now clear that the only people who think we could remain in the SM and or CU are our very own - WG etc....

    The Govt decided in early 2017 that it wasn't possible.

    Good morning all.

    It's one of the aspects of Brexit that has puzzled me. The Single Market is a club, with clear rules - among which are the four freedoms. HMG has decided that freedom of movement must end. That renders us ineligible. I think there has been deliberate conflation of 'access to' and 'membership of' by some politicians.

    We will leave the SM in name only. We will restrict freedom of movement in name only. From here on in it is all going to be about symbolism. On a practical basis, nothing much is going to change. It will literally all come down to the colour of passports and other things like that - and for most people that will be enough.

    My issue with your position is your certainty. I don't think that it's necessarily BINO, though I'd be delighted if we could remain in the Single Market (for certain values of 'in') while being outside the treaty obligations for ever closer union. Sadly, that falls well within the realm of having & eating cake.

    Given this government's track record, May could fall into a rose bed and come out smelling like ordure.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 14,798
    All of yesterdays shuffleshambles has left the Moggster as favourite for next Tory leader at 7.2 on BF
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 18,988

    HYUFD said:

    This will be spoiling a few Guardian breakfasts:

    Corbyn is more ideologically opposed to the single market and ECJ than May, it is just free movement May has an issue with
    Morning all,

    And what an excellent summary of the current position. When will the cultists wake up, and see who Corbyn really is?
    They look at the idiots in the Government and think this clown cannot be any worse than this shower.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 13,276

    TOPPING said:

    Not a great 48 hours for the government and we have another day of it to go with the Beeb trailing that anyone not white is in with a shout to become a junior minister. Quite how this will address worries over inclusion beats me.

    As to the summation of events, @DavidL put it so well on the previous thread I will reproduce his comment for the benefit of late arrivals to the den of iniquity PB.

    DavidL said:

    Toby Young is a prat who is not nearly as witty or funny or clever as he thinks he is but taking days of twitterstorm only to have him quit as the caravan moved on to the reshuffle shambles seems the worst possible outcome for the government once again.

    This government so needs a manager like Osborne was for Cameron or Mandelson was latterly for Brown. The idea that Green could fulfil that role was pretty laughable but is there anyone who thinks that Lidington is up to that job? Without some central grip we are condemned to more of the same, drift on the currents of world affairs without a paddle and with the odd capsize.

    May better not be demoting Rory.
    Although PMS not BAME, he has also not got grey hair which I see increased chances of appointment yesterday. Will it be enough to save him? Who knows.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 13,349

    Can any of PB’s darts fans tell me why Phil Taylor wasn’t given a life ban when he was convicted of being a pervert?

    Ok it was in the diddy Scottish legal system but still.

    Apparently he was being considered as SoS for Scotland in Theresa May's Cabinet but he fancied too much of a bit of bully and a recent tweet :

    "Keep out the blacks and shoot the reds, nothing in this game for just two in a bed."

    was considered on the Toby Young side of unfortunate ....
  • That Attlee quote. There is a basic problem with May telling a member of her cabinet that they "don't measure up to yer job" - aren't they going to laugh and point out that neither does she?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 18,988

    OchEye said:

    Anyhoo, praise unto Mrs May for promoting Esther McVey.

    If she becomes Chancellor before the next election then Esther McVey will be using John McDonnell’s bollocks for garters.

    She's already being set up for the UC mess and fail, her "nickname" doing the rounds is McVile. If she can sort it out then she has a chance, however small, to be Chancellor, but I'm certainly putting any money on it. Even Greening could see the job was a poisoned chalice...
    McVile is the name the vile cretins that want to hang her use.

    It is a useful moron/troll detector.
    Though totally accurate, when will benefits be replaced with cake.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,144

    All of yesterdays shuffleshambles has left the Moggster as favourite for next Tory leader at 7.2 on BF

    Even if that lay runs for a few years it’s still paying better than a savings account.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 14,798
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Not a great 48 hours for the government and we have another day of it to go with the Beeb trailing that anyone not white is in with a shout to become a junior minister. Quite how this will address worries over inclusion beats me.

    As to the summation of events, @DavidL put it so well on the previous thread I will reproduce his comment for the benefit of late arrivals to the den of iniquity PB.

    DavidL said:

    Toby Young is a prat who is not nearly as witty or funny or clever as he thinks he is but taking days of twitterstorm only to have him quit as the caravan moved on to the reshuffle shambles seems the worst possible outcome for the government once again.

    This government so needs a manager like Osborne was for Cameron or Mandelson was latterly for Brown. The idea that Green could fulfil that role was pretty laughable but is there anyone who thinks that Lidington is up to that job? Without some central grip we are condemned to more of the same, drift on the currents of world affairs without a paddle and with the odd capsize.

    May better not be demoting Rory.
    Although PMS not BAME, he has also not got grey hair which I see increased chances of appointment yesterday. Will it be enough to save him? Who knows.
    He was born abroad iirc - surely that should help? :-)
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,675

    Essexit said:
    If you genuinely think having the choice to vote or not for any politician is comparable to having an opinion about a non-transparent government appointment by a pal of the appointee, you're a fucking idiot.
    I don't dispute the right of the electorate to vote for whoever they want, but there must be significant overlap between JC cultists who think their man can do no wrong and the mob demanding Toby Young be removed (a not insignificant part of the PLP, for starters). That's hypocrisy.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 13,276

    That Attlee quote. There is a basic problem with May telling a member of her cabinet that they "don't measure up to yer job" - aren't they going to laugh and point out that neither does she?

    As I said yesterday when it was mooted that she would be giving a performance report on those ministers who weren't being sacked: like asking Trevor Bayliss to present a seminar on "What it takes to Win."
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 6,236

    All of yesterdays shuffleshambles has left the Moggster as favourite for next Tory leader at 7.2 on BF

    Presumably Esther is the steamer in the market?
  • malcolmg said:

    OchEye said:

    Anyhoo, praise unto Mrs May for promoting Esther McVey.

    If she becomes Chancellor before the next election then Esther McVey will be using John McDonnell’s bollocks for garters.

    She's already being set up for the UC mess and fail, her "nickname" doing the rounds is McVile. If she can sort it out then she has a chance, however small, to be Chancellor, but I'm certainly putting any money on it. Even Greening could see the job was a poisoned chalice...
    McVile is the name the vile cretins that want to hang her use.

    It is a useful moron/troll detector.
    Though totally accurate, when will benefits be replaced with cake.
    I'm sure that Ester is a nice person, she just has the problem of being the front woman for a particularly badly conceived and enacted policy that seems deliberately set up to both be as nasty and punitive as possible and cost the taxpayer money.

    Perhaps her time away from Parliament chairing the British Transport Police has given her a new perspective. Perhaps not.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 11,262
    Nigelb said:

    Oh dear

    Trevor Bayliss will not renew his contract as England cricket head coach when it expires in September next year.

    I have to agree with George Dobell that's pretty well irrelevant.
    http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/22000001/tea-sympathy-suffice-england-face-another-drubbing
    …the trouble is much higher up the pyramid than that. The problem is the ECB chief executive, Tom Harrison, trying to kid us that English cricket is in good health, and Andrew Strauss who has achieved little in his time as director of England cricket other than settling a couple of old scores: getting rid of Peter Moores and Kevin Pietersen. If teams are judged by their success in global events - as Strauss has always said - it is worth remembering they did worse in the 2017 Champions Trophy than the 2013 Champions Trophy.

    Blaming Stokes or Bayliss or Root for this loss will solve nothing. It's more fundamental change - and an acknowledgement of their problems - that England require…
    Never mind, we’ll have City t20 in a couple of years. That’ll show’em.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 20,361
    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    Second!

    Appointing and then de-appointing Tony either side of another botch-up; cunning worthy of Baldrick....

    I am not up with social media but even I am familiar with the idea that you don't feed the trolls. Someone should have done some due diligence on Young before his appointment and decided this was a bad idea. Alternatively, they should have stuck it out. To be dragged, kicking and screaming to do the right thing, as Jess Philips puts it, is really the worst of all worlds. The trolls have been fed and will be even noisier and harder to resist the next time.
    Maybe if they choose someone fit for the role and not an obvious Richard Head they will not have so much trouble
    Well that would be one solution Malcolm.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 13,349
    Meanwhile ....

    News is breaking of more reshuffle difficulties as it has emerged that Cabinet tea lady, Mrs Nora Buggins refused a move to 11 Downing Street. Mrs May offered Mrs Biggins a sideways move to make room for Justin Greening to hand round the custard creams at Cabinet.

    This difficulty follows on from the Budget spat when Chancellor Hammond proposed to reduce the size of Nora's urn(ings) by 10%. Nora responded by threatening to cut off Hammond's ginger nuts. Unsurprisingly the Chancellor caved and his ginger nuts remain intact.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,144

    OchEye said:

    Anyhoo, praise unto Mrs May for promoting Esther McVey.

    If she becomes Chancellor before the next election then Esther McVey will be using John McDonnell’s bollocks for garters.

    She's already being set up for the UC mess and fail, her "nickname" doing the rounds is McVile. If she can sort it out then she has a chance, however small, to be Chancellor, but I'm certainly putting any money on it. Even Greening could see the job was a poisoned chalice...
    McVile is the name the vile cretins that want to hang her use.

    It is a useful moron/troll detector.
    Tax credits, possibly the most pernicious government policy of my lifetime.

    Borrow £50bn a year, use a misleading name to hand it out in cash to 60% of households at an average of £4k per household per year - but that all the journalists don’t understand because they all either live in London and earn too much to claim it, or don’t understand why a household earning considerably more than the median wage should be able to claim benefits at all.

    A policy almost completely designed so that when the Tories came back into power and had to deal with the deficit, they’d be called heartless bastards (and a lot worse in the case of Ms McVey) for trying to undo the almighty mess this policy created.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 3,244
    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    This will be spoiling a few Guardian breakfasts:

    Corbyn is more ideologically opposed to the single market and ECJ than May, it is just free movement May has an issue with
    Morning all,

    And what an excellent summary of the current position. When will the cultists wake up, and see who Corbyn really is?
    They look at the idiots in the Government and think this clown cannot be any worse than this shower.
    Yes there was two focus groups on the ITV news at 1O last night.One younger mainly Labour supporters , the second one older mainly conservative voters.It said worryingly for the government both groups came to a similar conclusion, that Corbyn might not be any worse that the current government led by May.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 7,470

    All of yesterdays shuffleshambles has left the Moggster as favourite for next Tory leader at 7.2 on BF

    Presumably Esther is the steamer in the market?
    Mogg was already 7.2, not much change there. I've personally laid him out at 7.8.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 2,024
    Toby Young is a an ugly mutherf*cker - both on the outside and the inside. Good riddance to bad rubbish I say...
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 1,328
    The irritating McVey is shrill and comes across as uncaring, and careless.

    No surprise that the hapless May has given her the elephant trap of DWP – a trap she has previously fallen into.

  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 5,488

    malcolmg said:

    OchEye said:

    Anyhoo, praise unto Mrs May for promoting Esther McVey.

    If she becomes Chancellor before the next election then Esther McVey will be using John McDonnell’s bollocks for garters.

    She's already being set up for the UC mess and fail, her "nickname" doing the rounds is McVile. If she can sort it out then she has a chance, however small, to be Chancellor, but I'm certainly putting any money on it. Even Greening could see the job was a poisoned chalice...
    McVile is the name the vile cretins that want to hang her use.

    It is a useful moron/troll detector.
    Though totally accurate, when will benefits be replaced with cake.
    I'm sure that Ester is a nice person, she just has the problem of being the front woman for a particularly badly conceived and enacted policy that seems deliberately set up to both be as nasty and punitive as possible and cost the taxpayer money.

    Perhaps her time away from Parliament chairing the British Transport Police has given her a new perspective. Perhaps not.
    Whoever would have thought that IDS of all people would mastermind an idea which was cruel, stupid, unworkable and politically suicidal? Flabbergasting.
  • Tax Credits were a simple concept - work doesn't pay. So lets subsidise low wages.

    A stupid concept, but simple to understand. What should have happened was that instead of subsidising Tesco, government should have incentivised Tesco to pay appropriate wages. They want to pay less Corporation Tax, fine as long as you pay a living wage.

    Capitalism is simple. You want to sell your products you need punters with enough cash in their pockets who can afford to buy them. Low wages + high costs = less cash too spend = lower economic output. You can only substitute this lack of disposable income with cheap loans for so long
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 8,197
    murali_s said:

    Toby Young is a an ugly mutherf*cker - both on the outside and the inside. Good riddance to bad rubbish I say...

    Get off the fence. Say what you really think.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 11,651
    Essexit said:

    Essexit said:
    If you genuinely think having the choice to vote or not for any politician is comparable to having an opinion about a non-transparent government appointment by a pal of the appointee, you're a fucking idiot.
    I don't dispute the right of the electorate to vote for whoever they want, but there must be significant overlap between JC cultists who think their man can do no wrong and the mob demanding Toby Young be removed (a not insignificant part of the PLP, for starters). That's hypocrisy.
    If it were only JC cultists who thought Toby was a dick, he'd still be in post. JHB and her ilk are raging that that view is more widespread.
  • PeterMannionPeterMannion Posts: 258
    JackW said:

    Meanwhile ....

    News is breaking of more reshuffle difficulties as it has emerged that Cabinet tea lady, Mrs Nora Buggins refused a move to 11 Downing Street. Mrs May offered Mrs Biggins a sideways move to make room for Justin Greening to hand round the custard creams at Cabinet.

    This difficulty follows on from the Budget spat when Chancellor Hammond proposed to reduce the size of Nora's urn(ings) by 10%. Nora responded by threatening to cut off Hammond's ginger nuts. Unsurprisingly the Chancellor caved and his ginger nuts remain intact.

    Crude and unfunny, all in one 'joke'
  • PeterMannionPeterMannion Posts: 258

    JackW said:

    Meanwhile ....

    News is breaking of more reshuffle difficulties as it has emerged that Cabinet tea lady, Mrs Nora Buggins refused a move to 11 Downing Street. Mrs May offered Mrs Biggins a sideways move to make room for Justin Greening to hand round the custard creams at Cabinet.

    This difficulty follows on from the Budget spat when Chancellor Hammond proposed to reduce the size of Nora's urn(ings) by 10%. Nora responded by threatening to cut off Hammond's ginger nuts. Unsurprisingly the Chancellor caved and his ginger nuts remain intact.

    Crude and unfunny, all in one 'joke'
    Toby Young lives!
  • HHemmeligHHemmelig Posts: 617
    Sandpit said:

    OchEye said:

    Anyhoo, praise unto Mrs May for promoting Esther McVey.

    If she becomes Chancellor before the next election then Esther McVey will be using John McDonnell’s bollocks for garters.

    She's already being set up for the UC mess and fail, her "nickname" doing the rounds is McVile. If she can sort it out then she has a chance, however small, to be Chancellor, but I'm certainly putting any money on it. Even Greening could see the job was a poisoned chalice...
    McVile is the name the vile cretins that want to hang her use.

    It is a useful moron/troll detector.
    Tax credits, possibly the most pernicious government policy of my lifetime.

    Borrow £50bn a year, use a misleading name to hand it out in cash to 60% of households at an average of £4k per household per year - but that all the journalists don’t understand because they all either live in London and earn too much to claim it, or don’t understand why a household earning considerably more than the median wage should be able to claim benefits at all.

    A policy almost completely designed so that when the Tories came back into power and had to deal with the deficit, they’d be called heartless bastards (and a lot worse in the case of Ms McVey) for trying to undo the almighty mess this policy created.
    Tax credits were first introduced by the Thatcher government in 1988
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 26,362

    John_M said:

    Mortimer said:

    Ploughing through Fall Out; it's now clear that the only people who think we could remain in the SM and or CU are our very own - WG etc....

    The Govt decided in early 2017 that it wasn't possible.

    Mortimer said:

    Ploughing through Fall Out; it's now clear that the only people who think we could remain in the SM and or CU are our very own - WG etc....

    The Govt decided in early 2017 that it wasn't possible.

    Good morning all.

    It's one of the aspects of Brexit that has puzzled me. The Single Market is a club, with clear rules - among which are the four freedoms. HMG has decided that freedom of movement must end. That renders us ineligible. I think there has been deliberate conflation of 'access to' and 'membership of' by some politicians.

    We will leave the SM in name only. We will restrict freedom of movement in name only. From here on in it is all going to be about symbolism. On a practical basis, nothing much is going to change. It will literally all come down to the colour of passports and other things like that - and for most people that will be enough.

    Sorry but I think that is wishful thinking. The EU is a club with rules for a reason. They are not going to let us become semi detached and undermine the basic principles of their club just to make things easy for May.

    Anything that undermines or circumvents the four freedoms will end up in front of the ECJ very quickly indeed. And they certainly won't be interested in smokescreens.

    I agree. There is going to be a lot of legal contorting going on - not least to provide coiver for the total humiliation of the Brexit-backing Tory elite - and it will all be done on terms dictated by the EU.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 9,387
    murali_s said:

    Toby Young is a an ugly mutherf*cker - both on the outside and the inside. Good riddance to bad rubbish I say...

    Ah, some of that famed caustic wit.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 431
    Fenman said:

    For those few still vaguely interested in the fate of the Lib Dems a quick look at Lib Dem Voice today where they are explaining their new policy of total censorship might amuse. This goes a long way towards explaining why I, as a lifetime Liberal and Lib Dem, have to join others in seeing the party as being in its death throes. Liberalism has never been more needed and never more poorly represented.

    I think it's a positive move. The LDV comment section is full of boors drowning everyone else out. A little moderation would make it a whole bunch better.
This discussion has been closed.