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  • DavidL said:

    Hadn't seen that but it is consistent with what I was saying. Deeply depressing that May is still talking to that idiot Timothy, if it is true. It would certainly explain the incompetence.

    It is the biggest open secret in Westminster that she's still taking advice from the gruesome twosome that are Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill.

    I suspect that will be used if and when Mrs May gets no confidenced later on this year.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 407

    Scotlands NHS figures are worst recorded with large increase in those not seen in the four hour target.Poor figures and Sturgeon has apologised.

    Add in the failure of Wales NHS it is clear that the NHS throughout the UK needs a cross party working group to formulate plans on health and social care and funding for the next 10 years as Jeremy Hunt alluded to earlier in the week

    Last month, BBC analysis of NHS data showed that fewer patients in Scotland were waiting longer than four hours in A&E than they did in 2012/3 in contrast to England where the number had more than doubled.
    It found England had a 155% rise in long waits between 2012/3 and this year, up to 2.5 million a year
  • ElliotElliot Posts: 1,479

    Raab is new Housing minister. Gotta get that one right and fast.

    Given the stated focus of this government is "housing, housing, housing" that could be a big platform. He will need to drive through major change - further tinkering won't work any more.
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,183
    Elliot said:

    Just to be clear, May leaving cabinet ministers in place is evidence she doesn't have any power, and May sacking people like Greening is evidence she lacks the skills of "compromise and flexibility"?

    I'm not especially a fan of May, but it's very clear most of this board will interpret anything she does in a negative light. They start from the conclusion what she has done is wrong, and then work backwards to interpret the facts to fit that appropriately. Even if such a thought process contradicts the logic of the previous day.

    She announced that she was going to have a major reshuffle, hints were dropped from no 10 allover the place about Hunt, Johnson, Fox and many others, being sacked, removed and moved - Just like the 2017 GE, this reshuffle was called unnecessarily, major theatrics were planned, announcements prepared and pop! the fireworks not only didn't explode in triumph, but just blew smoke into her face, again....
  • A cock up by the FSA, I am shocked. SHOCKED.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 7,596

    Raab is new Housing minister. Gotta get that one right and fast.

    say it quietly but new builds are doing okay right now.

    Starts/completes at c.200,000 plus 20,000 or so conversions.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 4,309

    DavidL said:

    Hadn't seen that but it is consistent with what I was saying. Deeply depressing that May is still talking to that idiot Timothy, if it is true. It would certainly explain the incompetence.

    It is the biggest open secret in Westminster that she's still taking advice from the gruesome twosome that are Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill.

    I suspect that will be used if and when Mrs May gets no confidenced later on this year.
    You have to wonder why she is doing that...

    Does she think they served her well during the election ?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 2,313
    dr_spyn said:

    So when will the electoral boundaries be revised, just in time for the 22nd anniversary of the last revision?

    There is a simple solution for new boundaries. Accept the Private Members Bill proposed by Afzal Khan. It would pass, and voila new boundaries for 2022.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 37,213
    @paulwaugh: There will be no reshuffle of Jeremy Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet this week or in foreseeable future, sources tell me.
  • rkrkrk said:

    DavidL said:

    Hadn't seen that but it is consistent with what I was saying. Deeply depressing that May is still talking to that idiot Timothy, if it is true. It would certainly explain the incompetence.

    It is the biggest open secret in Westminster that she's still taking advice from the gruesome twosome that are Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill.

    I suspect that will be used if and when Mrs May gets no confidenced later on this year.
    You have to wonder why she is doing that...

    Does she think they served her well during the election ?
    She doesn't have many close friends in politics, she's lost Damian Green, so she goes back to those she knows.

    Plus it has been said Nick Timothy blames others for the election campaign.

    The author of the dementia tax policy thinks that.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 7,596

    A cock up by the FSA, I am shocked. SHOCKED.
    If it's the Food Standards Agency in charge of MiFID I am not surprised.
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,183
    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    I can't help feeling that Justine Greening thought she would be left in post if she simply said no, as so many others had. May obviously felt that she could not back down again without looking (even more) ridiculous.

    I s

    According to the papers Mrs May has not liked then tone of Justine Greening, nor the fact that Greening was proven right about grammar schools and made Nick Timothy look like an idiot.

    From this morning's Red Box email.

    It had been briefed that Justine Greening's hold on the role of education secretary was in doubt, but after other ministers had refused to budge, she did the same. Unlike the others, Theresa May deployed her renowned skills of compromise, flexibility and guile, and sacked her.

    The PM had wanted to shift Greening to work and pensions, claiming she could continue her work on improving social mobility. This might have worked if the reshuffle had been the big wide-ranging affair we had been led by No 10 to expect.

    Instead, Greening dug her heels in, laid out her achievements at education and more she wanted to do. May made clear it was a "take or leave it" offer. Greening left it. The job went to Damian Hinds, who is well liked, and good to see a straight white man finally get a break.

    So the first openly gay woman in cabinet and the first state-educated education secretary returns to the backbenches: because what the prime minister really needs is another Remainer with a grievance. Greening has made clear she will be "representing" her community, which happened to vote something like 70 per cent in favour of Remain. A rebel is born.

    Friends insist she had done a "bloody good job" in education and did not want to be just shunted around Whitehall. They also suspect the hand of Nick Timothy, May's former chief of staff, who has used a number of articles to single out Greening for criticism. There were whispers of Greening getting "too close" to teaching unions (perhaps no bad thing when only 8 per cent of teachers voted Tory last year) and speaking up too much in cabinet.

    "A number of people who have been disloyal and ineffective have been allowed to stay in their roles," one senior Tory MP told me last night. "Why is Justine the only one to go? Because the PM has Nick Timothy whispering in her ear."
    On the other hand, one can only have limited sympathy for someone who flounces when offered a reasonable Cabinet job. She wasn't being demoted.
    Oh! come on, the chalice offered has the poison overflowing the rim! Only the most stupid, or desperate would take the offering...And really that doesn't say much for McVey!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 11,792
    Is this right? If so I'd like to say my estimation of the fragrant Ms McVey has seriously shrivelled, but..

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 14,574
    sarissa said:

    Scotlands NHS figures are worst recorded with large increase in those not seen in the four hour target.Poor figures and Sturgeon has apologised.

    Add in the failure of Wales NHS it is clear that the NHS throughout the UK needs a cross party working group to formulate plans on health and social care and funding for the next 10 years as Jeremy Hunt alluded to earlier in the week

    Last month, BBC analysis of NHS data showed that fewer patients in Scotland were waiting longer than four hours in A&E than they did in 2012/3 in contrast to England where the number had more than doubled.
    It found England had a 155% rise in long waits between 2012/3 and this year, up to 2.5 million a year
    The figures for Scotland issued today are so bad Nicola Sturgeon has apologised
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 21,878
    TOPPING said:

    Sean_F said:

    TOPPING said:

    SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    Mr. Eagles, he certainly gave plenty of people the chop.

    They were the lucky ones, some were burned alive.
    They were also the lucky ones. Some were boiled, dismembered, or hung in chains to die of starvation.

    Henry VIII was simply the most evil man ever to rule this country.
    I think William the Bastard, AKA the Conqueror, who left entire parts of the nation unpeopled for centuries, following the Harrying of the North, must take that title.
    To say nothing of chopping off your hands and feet if you were tactless enough to remind him who his grandfather was.
    I don't think William had the monopoly on that kind of behaviour - most monarchs of the time were similarly ruthless - Henry I had his grandchildren's eyes put out and nose cut off as one of many typical actions of the day.
    Henry I was praised at the time for his leniency towards a corrupt servant - the man was blinded and castrated, rather than being executed.
    And allowed Luc de Barre to kill himself rather than be killed.

    But them's was the rules back then. No space or longevity for any shrinking violet, as subsequent monarchs found out.
    A certain ruthlessness was a necessary part of successful kingship in those days.

    But, it was one thing to be cruel, but consistent and effective, like Henry I. The bad rulers were those who were cruel, but vicious and incometent, like John or Henry VIII.
  • A cock up by the FSA, I am shocked. SHOCKED.
    If it's the Food Standards Agency in charge of MiFID I am not surprised.
    I'm showing my age there.
  • DublinerDubliner Posts: 44

    Mr. F, don't know much of Henry VIII beyond the basics, but was he really worse than John?

    I suspect that many of the PB Tories would prefer Henry to John. Henry was enforcing the Law,

    John was trying to raise taxes (for his foreign wars.
  • SeanTSeanT Posts: 20,661
    This is great, too

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/1066-Three-Battles-Frank-McLynn/dp/0712666729/ref=sr_1_9?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1515499432&sr=1-9&keywords=1066

    Full of amazing facts about the often forgotten third contender for the throne, the Viking Harold Hardrada (who surely had one of the most remarkable lives in European history)

    One example. As he lay dying after the battle of Stamford Bridge, he summoned a scribe to take down his last poetic words. This was a great Viking tradition: cultured nobleman-warriors were meant to have poignant and lyrical phrases ready to go, as they prepared to die and enter Valhalla.

    So Harold called his scribe, who wrote down the great king's final, immortal words, and Harold lay down to die. But then Harold decided he had a better final lyric, so the scribe was recalled, and Harold told him to erase that first draft and take down a better version.

    And then the kind died.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 11,792

    sarissa said:

    Scotlands NHS figures are worst recorded with large increase in those not seen in the four hour target.Poor figures and Sturgeon has apologised.

    Add in the failure of Wales NHS it is clear that the NHS throughout the UK needs a cross party working group to formulate plans on health and social care and funding for the next 10 years as Jeremy Hunt alluded to earlier in the week

    Last month, BBC analysis of NHS data showed that fewer patients in Scotland were waiting longer than four hours in A&E than they did in 2012/3 in contrast to England where the number had more than doubled.
    It found England had a 155% rise in long waits between 2012/3 and this year, up to 2.5 million a year
    The figures for Scotland issued today are so bad Nicola Sturgeon has apologised
    But still better than England's.

    As our 'deepest inner thoughts of Theresa' correspondent, can you let us know when Tessy's mea culpa is due?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 15,130

    DavidL said:

    Hadn't seen that but it is consistent with what I was saying. Deeply depressing that May is still talking to that idiot Timothy, if it is true. It would certainly explain the incompetence.

    It is the biggest open secret in Westminster that she's still taking advice from the gruesome twosome that are Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill.

    I suspect that will be used if and when Mrs May gets no confidenced later on this year.
    Surely 2019 is more likely, after the Brexit deal is done and we're out of the EU.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 26,620
    Scott_P said:

    @paulwaugh: There will be no reshuffle of Jeremy Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet this week or in foreseeable future, sources tell me.

    Corbyn has everyone he wants working for him working for him. He has ruled out at least 75% of the PLP ever being on the shadow benches. Were he actually to become PM, Corbyn would either have to leave a number of government posts unfilled or appoint people he does not want to appoint to positions of responsibility.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 21,878

    Raab is new Housing minister. Gotta get that one right and fast.

    say it quietly but new builds are doing okay right now.

    Starts/completes at c.200,000 plus 20,000 or so conversions.
    Construction output is up about 27% since 2013. Initial estimates from the ONS usually show construction output in the doldrums, before the numbers get substantially revised upwards.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 13,665
    Dubliner said:

    Mr. F, don't know much of Henry VIII beyond the basics, but was he really worse than John?

    I suspect that many of the PB Tories would prefer Henry to John. Henry was enforcing the Law,

    John was trying to raise taxes (for his foreign wars.
    They were all trying to raise taxes for foreign wars. Raising taxes for foreign wars, and in particular the barons' response, defined the English legal system for centuries at the time, and for centuries since.
  • Is this right? If so I'd like to say my estimation of the fragrant Ms McVey has seriously shrivelled, but..

    They used to share a flat but denied any hanky panky
  • Dubliner said:

    Mr. F, don't know much of Henry VIII beyond the basics, but was he really worse than John?

    I suspect that many of the PB Tories would prefer Henry to John. Henry was enforcing the Law,

    John was trying to raise taxes (for his foreign wars.
    I'd support tax rises to wage war on France.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 14,574

    sarissa said:

    Scotlands NHS figures are worst recorded with large increase in those not seen in the four hour target.Poor figures and Sturgeon has apologised.

    Add in the failure of Wales NHS it is clear that the NHS throughout the UK needs a cross party working group to formulate plans on health and social care and funding for the next 10 years as Jeremy Hunt alluded to earlier in the week

    Last month, BBC analysis of NHS data showed that fewer patients in Scotland were waiting longer than four hours in A&E than they did in 2012/3 in contrast to England where the number had more than doubled.
    It found England had a 155% rise in long waits between 2012/3 and this year, up to 2.5 million a year
    The figures for Scotland issued today are so bad Nicola Sturgeon has apologised
    But still better than England's.

    As our 'deepest inner thoughts of Theresa' correspondent, can you let us know when Tessy's mea culpa is due?
    Both Jeremy Hunt and Theresa May have apologised over the present health problems
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 21,878
    Dubliner said:

    Mr. F, don't know much of Henry VIII beyond the basics, but was he really worse than John?

    I suspect that many of the PB Tories would prefer Henry to John. Henry was enforcing the Law,

    John was trying to raise taxes (for his foreign wars.
    Henry wasted a fortune, failing to conquer France.
  • ElliotElliot Posts: 1,479
    OchEye said:

    Elliot said:

    Just to be clear, May leaving cabinet ministers in place is evidence she doesn't have any power, and May sacking people like Greening is evidence she lacks the skills of "compromise and flexibility"?

    I'm not especially a fan of May, but it's very clear most of this board will interpret anything she does in a negative light. They start from the conclusion what she has done is wrong, and then work backwards to interpret the facts to fit that appropriately. Even if such a thought process contradicts the logic of the previous day.

    She announced that she was going to have a major reshuffle, hints were dropped from no 10 allover the place about Hunt, Johnson, Fox and many others, being sacked, removed and moved - Just like the 2017 GE, this reshuffle was called unnecessarily, major theatrics were planned, announcements prepared and pop! the fireworks not only didn't explode in triumph, but just blew smoke into her face, again....
    Yes, I get that you think May has overseen a disaster. You still haven't addressed the actual point I raised about the inconsistency: sacking someone for not moving is stubborn, leaving someone in place is weak.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 66,813
    edited January 9
    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    Hadn't seen that but it is consistent with what I was saying. Deeply depressing that May is still talking to that idiot Timothy, if it is true. It would certainly explain the incompetence.

    It is the biggest open secret in Westminster that she's still taking advice from the gruesome twosome that are Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill.

    I suspect that will be used if and when Mrs May gets no confidenced later on this year.
    Surely 2019 is more likely, after the Brexit deal is done and we're out of the EU.
    At the rate she's pissing off people Sir Graham Brady's postman is going to get a hernia soon.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 7,596
    Sean_F said:

    Raab is new Housing minister. Gotta get that one right and fast.

    say it quietly but new builds are doing okay right now.

    Starts/completes at c.200,000 plus 20,000 or so conversions.
    Construction output is up about 27% since 2013. Initial estimates from the ONS usually show construction output in the doldrums, before the numbers get substantially revised upwards.
    The problem is we need about 10 more good years before the problem is even half solved
  • ElliotElliot Posts: 1,479

    Raab is new Housing minister. Gotta get that one right and fast.

    say it quietly but new builds are doing okay right now.

    Starts/completes at c.200,000 plus 20,000 or so conversions.
    Hammond has said 300,000 new ones a year are needed to reach reasonable affordability
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 8,572
    edited January 9

    rkrkrk said:

    DavidL said:

    Hadn't seen that but it is consistent with what I was saying. Deeply depressing that May is still talking to that idiot Timothy, if it is true. It would certainly explain the incompetence.

    It is the biggest open secret in Westminster that she's still taking advice from the gruesome twosome that are Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill.

    I suspect that will be used if and when Mrs May gets no confidenced later on this year.
    You have to wonder why she is doing that...

    Does she think they served her well during the election ?
    She doesn't have many close friends in politics, she's lost Damian Green, so she goes back to those she knows.

    Plus it has been said Nick Timothy blames others for the election campaign.

    The author of the dementia tax policy thinks that.
    To be fair to the prime minister and her erstwhile advisers ...

    Many pb Tories said the dementia tax was a great policy once it was explained (obviously their subsequent views might be more nuanced) but the reason it was not explained to voters was Lynton Crosby decreed that only Theresa May could go on telly, and she could only parrot "strong and stable" when she got there.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 15,130

    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    Hadn't seen that but it is consistent with what I was saying. Deeply depressing that May is still talking to that idiot Timothy, if it is true. It would certainly explain the incompetence.

    It is the biggest open secret in Westminster that she's still taking advice from the gruesome twosome that are Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill.

    I suspect that will be used if and when Mrs May gets no confidenced later on this year.
    Surely 2019 is more likely, after the Brexit deal is done and we're out of the EU.
    At the rate she's pissing off people Sir Graham Brady's postman is going to get a hernia soon.
    The Greening one was the worst of them all tbh, she's made an unnecessary enemy of her.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 1,447
    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    I can't help feeling that Justine Greening thought she would be left in post if she simply said no, as so many others had. May obviously felt that she could not back down again without looking (even more) ridiculous.

    I s

    According to the papers Mrs May has not liked then tone of Justine Greening, nor the fact that Greening was proven right about grammar schools and made Nick Timothy look like an idiot.

    From this morning's Red Box email.

    It had been briefed that Justine Greening's hold on the role of education secretary was in doubt, but after other ministers had refused to budge, she did the same. Unlike the others, Theresa May deployed her renowned skills of compromise, flexibility and guile, and sacked her.

    SNIP

    So the first openly gay woman in cabinet and the first state-educated education secretary returns to the backbenches: because what the prime minister really needs is another Remainer with a grievance. Greening has made clear she will be "representing" her community, which happened to vote something like 70 per cent in favour of Remain. A rebel is born.

    Friends insist she had done a "bloody good job" in education and did not want to be just shunted around Whitehall. They also suspect the hand of Nick Timothy, SNIP
    On the other hand, one can only have limited sympathy for someone who flounces when offered a reasonable Cabinet job. She wasn't being demoted.
    An absurd post. A key part of one's career management is knowing when to say 'no'. If I had taken every job offered me over the years I would have been utterly miserable and possibly mentally ill by now. I am sure the same is true of many members on PB. Only a fool or a desperate wannabe would accept the DWP job. Thanks to the work of that incompetent clown IDS, it's the worst job in the cabinet and the definition of a poisoned chalice.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 21,878
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    Hadn't seen that but it is consistent with what I was saying. Deeply depressing that May is still talking to that idiot Timothy, if it is true. It would certainly explain the incompetence.

    It is the biggest open secret in Westminster that she's still taking advice from the gruesome twosome that are Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill.

    I suspect that will be used if and when Mrs May gets no confidenced later on this year.
    Surely 2019 is more likely, after the Brexit deal is done and we're out of the EU.
    At the rate she's pissing off people Sir Graham Brady's postman is going to get a hernia soon.
    The Greening one was the worst of them all tbh, she's made an unnecessary enemy of her.
    Into every life, a little rain must fall.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 4,550
    Essentially TMay needs to be in a job where she doesn't have to interact with people.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 9,936

    Scott_P said:

    @paulwaugh: There will be no reshuffle of Jeremy Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet this week or in foreseeable future, sources tell me.

    Corbyn has everyone he wants working for him working for him. He has ruled out at least 75% of the PLP ever being on the shadow benches. Were he actually to become PM, Corbyn would either have to leave a number of government posts unfilled or appoint people he does not want to appoint to positions of responsibility.

    I do not think you are right about this. TBF you have a track record of being wrong on all things Corbyn (apart from the fact you wont vote for him)

    Jezza would have some of the PLP that aren't currently in the Shadow Cabinet back in the fold IMO, others like Benn are ruled out permanently I would have thought. He will of course be loyal to those who stood by him when the great PLP backstabbing took place and not sure some of the Right Wing would be prepared to be more Junior than their Entitlement Culture tells them they deserve.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 1,447

    DavidL said:

    SNIP

    According to the papers Mrs May has not liked then tone of Justine Greening, nor the fact that Greening was proven right about grammar schools and made Nick Timothy look like an idiot.

    Her treatment of Greening was a callous and bitchy act by an isolated and defensive woman. May should be ashamed of herself.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 21,878
    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    I can't help feeling that Justine Greening thought she would be left in post if she simply said no, as so many others had. May obviously felt that she could not back down again without looking (even more) ridiculous.

    I s

    According to the papers Mrs May has not liked then tone of Justine Greening, nor the fact that Greening was proven right about grammar schools and made Nick Timothy look like an idiot.

    From this morning's Red Box email.

    It had been briefed that Justine Greening's hold on the role of education secretary was in doubt, but after other ministers had refused to budge, she did the same. Unlike the others, Theresa May deployed her renowned skills of compromise, flexibility and guile, and sacked her.

    SNIP

    So the first openly gay woman in cabinet and the first state-educated education secretary returns to the backbenches: because what the prime minister really needs is another Remainer with a grievance. Greening has made clear she will be "representing" her community, which happened to vote something like 70 per cent in favour of Remain. A rebel is born.

    Friends insist she had done a "bloody good job" in education and did not want to be just shunted around Whitehall. They also suspect the hand of Nick Timothy, SNIP
    On the other hand, one can only have limited sympathy for someone who flounces when offered a reasonable Cabinet job. She wasn't being demoted.
    An absurd post. A key part of one's career management is knowing when to say 'no'. If I had taken every job offered me over the years I would have been utterly miserable and possibly mentally ill by now. I am sure the same is true of many members on PB. Only a fool or a desperate wannabe would accept the DWP job. Thanks to the work of that incompetent clown IDS, it's the worst job in the cabinet and the definition of a poisoned chalice.
    Nobody has the *right" to be in any particular Cabinet position.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 20,812
    rkrkrk said:

    DavidL said:

    Hadn't seen that but it is consistent with what I was saying. Deeply depressing that May is still talking to that idiot Timothy, if it is true. It would certainly explain the incompetence.

    It is the biggest open secret in Westminster that she's still taking advice from the gruesome twosome that are Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill.

    I suspect that will be used if and when Mrs May gets no confidenced later on this year.
    You have to wonder why she is doing that...

    Does she think they served her well during the election ?
    I thought part of the deal of her staying in office was that they had to go.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 1,447
    Sean_F said:

    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    I can't help feeling that Justine Greening thought she would be left in post if she simply said no, as so many others had. May obviously felt that she could not back down again without looking (even more) ridiculous.

    I s

    According to the papers Mrs May has not liked then tone of Justine Greening, nor the fact that Greening was proven right about grammar schools and made Nick Timothy look like an idiot.

    From this morning's Red Box email.

    It had been briefed that Justine Greening's hold on the role of education secretary was in doubt, but after other ministers had refused to budge, she did the same. Unlike the others, Theresa May deployed her renowned skills of compromise, flexibility and guile, and sacked her.

    SNIP

    So the first openly gay woman in cabinet and the first state-educated education secretary returns to the backbenches: because what the prime minister really needs is another Remainer with a grievance. Greening has made clear she will be "representing" her community, which happened to vote something like 70 per cent in favour of Remain. A rebel is born.

    Friends insist she had done a "bloody good job" in education and did not want to be just shunted around Whitehall. They also suspect the hand of Nick Timothy, SNIP
    On the other hand, one can only have limited sympathy for someone who flounces when offered a reasonable Cabinet job. She wasn't being demoted.
    An absurd post. A key part of one's career management is knowing when to say 'no'. If I had taken every job offered me over the years I would have been utterly miserable and possibly mentally ill by now. I am sure the same is true of many members on PB. Only a fool or a desperate wannabe would accept the DWP job. Thanks to the work of that incompetent clown IDS, it's the worst job in the cabinet and the definition of a poisoned chalice.
    Nobody has the *right" to be in any particular Cabinet position.
    I didn't say she did. She did the decent and sensible thing and told the hapless and ineffectual May where to stick her crappy offer.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 37,213
    @davidallengreen: Just a quick note that Dominic Raab has now had two periods as a justice minister, and the Human Rights Act is still in place, and he is not.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 15,212

    rkrkrk said:

    DavidL said:

    Hadn't seen that but it is consistent with what I was saying. Deeply depressing that May is still talking to that idiot Timothy, if it is true. It would certainly explain the incompetence.

    It is the biggest open secret in Westminster that she's still taking advice from the gruesome twosome that are Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill.

    I suspect that will be used if and when Mrs May gets no confidenced later on this year.
    You have to wonder why she is doing that...

    Does she think they served her well during the election ?
    She doesn't have many close friends in politics, she's lost Damian Green, so she goes back to those she knows.

    Plus it has been said Nick Timothy blames others for the election campaign.

    The author of the dementia tax policy thinks that.
    To be fair to the prime minister and her erstwhile advisers ...

    Many pb Tories said the dementia tax was a great policy once it was explained (obviously their subsequent views might be more nuanced) but the reason it was not explained to voters was Lynton Crosby decreed that only Theresa May could go on telly, and she could only parrot "strong and stable" when she got there.
    It wasn't just PB Tories. There were plenty of people on here from all sides of the political spectrum who thought it was a sensible move from a practical point of view and for the good of the country. The question of course was whether it was good from a political point of view and that proved to be the big issue.

    This is aside from the fact that May is an utterly useless politician who should never have got within a hundred miles of any sort of high office.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 1,447

    Essentially TMay needs to be in a job where she doesn't have to interact with people.

    Lord Falconer's diary secretary?
  • DavidL said:

    rkrkrk said:

    DavidL said:

    Hadn't seen that but it is consistent with what I was saying. Deeply depressing that May is still talking to that idiot Timothy, if it is true. It would certainly explain the incompetence.

    It is the biggest open secret in Westminster that she's still taking advice from the gruesome twosome that are Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill.

    I suspect that will be used if and when Mrs May gets no confidenced later on this year.
    You have to wonder why she is doing that...

    Does she think they served her well during the election ?
    I thought part of the deal of her staying in office was that they had to go.
    It was, she will say she only talks to them on personal matters.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 21,878
    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    I can't help feeling that Justine Greening thought she would be left in post if she simply said no, as so many others had. May obviously felt that she could not back down again without looking (even more) ridiculous.

    I s

    According to the papers Mrs May has not liked then tone of Justine Greening, nor the fact that Greening was proven right about grammar schools and made Nick Timothy look like an idiot.

    From this morning's Red Box email.

    It had been briefed that Justine Greening's hold on the role of education secretary was in doubt, but after other ministers had refused to budge, she did the same. Unlike the others, Theresa May deployed her renowned skills of compromise, flexibility and guile, and sacked her.

    SNIP

    So the first openly gay woman in cabinet and the first state-educated education secretary returns to the backbenches: because what the prime minister really needs is another Remainer with a grievance. Greening has made clear she will be "representing" her community, which happened to vote something like 70 per cent in favour of Remain. A rebel is born.

    Friends insist she had done a "bloody good job" in education and did not want to be just shunted around Whitehall. They also suspect the hand of Nick Timothy, SNIP
    On the other hand, one can only have limited sympathy for someone who flounces when offered a reasonable Cabinet job. She wasn't being demoted.
    An absurd post. A key part of one's career management is knowing when to say 'no'. If I had taken every job offered me over the years I would have been utterly miserable and possibly mentally ill by now. I am sure the same is true of many members on PB. Only a fool or a desperate wannabe would accept the DWP job. Thanks to the work of that incompetent clown IDS, it's the worst job in the cabinet and the definition of a poisoned chalice.
    Nobody has the *right" to be in any particular Cabinet position.
    I didn't say she did. She did the decent and sensible thing and told the hapless and ineffectual May where to stick her crappy offer.
    The DWP job is an important one, and of equivalent status to Education Secretary. And yes, it's difficult and challenging. But, if you turn down difficult and challenging work, of equivalent status to your current position, that reflects more on you than on the person making the offer.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 7,596
    Elliot said:

    Raab is new Housing minister. Gotta get that one right and fast.

    say it quietly but new builds are doing okay right now.

    Starts/completes at c.200,000 plus 20,000 or so conversions.
    Hammond has said 300,000 new ones a year are needed to reach reasonable affordability
    220,000-240,000 is approximately the deficit.

    We need to start making payments on the debt, which is a lot bigger than people realise. There are probably 200,000 or more people living with their parents at 30, in what should be living rooms, or even sharing rooms (can you believe!). Most of them in London.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 7,596
    Scott_P said:
    Weren't they all on the naughty list/
  • SeanTSeanT Posts: 20,661
    My god, that's genius. She has a spray can marked REFRESH, but then..... wait for it... she presses the nozzle and it blows INTO her face rather than AWAY from it.


    Yes, INTO and TOWARDS her face, rather than spraying OUTWARDS and away from the face, as is traditional.

    Just brilliant. What an editor, to find and hire such talent.
  • He's lucky to get moved sideways and not sacked

  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 1,447
    Sean_F said:

    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    I can't help feeling that Justine Greening thought she would be left in post if she simply said no, as so many others had. May obviously felt that she could not back down again without looking (even more) ridiculous.

    I s

    According to the papers Mrs May has not liked then tone of Justine Greening, nor the fact that Greening was proven right about grammar schools and made Nick Timothy look like an idiot.

    From this morning's Red Box email.

    It had been briefed that Justine Greening's hold on the role of education secretary was in doubt, but after other ministers had refused to budge, she did the same. Unlike the others, Theresa May deployed her renowned skills of compromise, flexibility and guile, and sacked her.

    SNIP

    So the first openly gay woman in cabinet and the first state-educated education secretary returns to the backbenches: because what the prime minister really needs is another Remainer with a grievance. Greening has made clear she will be "representing" her community, which happened to vote something like 70 per cent in favour of Remain. A rebel is born.

    Friends insist she had done a "bloody good job" in education and did not want to be just shunted around Whitehall. They also suspect the hand of Nick Timothy, SNIP
    On the other hand, one can only have limited sympathy for someone who flounces when offered a reasonable Cabinet job. She wasn't being demoted.
    An absurd post. A key part of one's career management is knowing when to say 'no'. If I had taken every job offered me over the years I would have been utterly miserable and possibly mentally ill by now. I am sure the same is true of many members on PB. Only a fool or a desperate wannabe would accept the DWP job. Thanks to the work of that incompetent clown IDS, it's the worst job in the cabinet and the definition of a poisoned chalice.
    Nobody has the *right" to be in any particular Cabinet position.
    I didn't say she did. She did the decent and sensible thing and told the hapless and ineffectual May where to stick her crappy offer.
    The DWP job is an important one, and of equivalent status to Education Secretary. And yes, it's difficult and challenging. But, if you turn down difficult and challenging work, of equivalent status to your current position, that reflects more on you than on the person making the offer.
    Not so. The sensible professional chooses role where he or she has a good chance of succeeding. The DWP gig is not one of those roles.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 21,878
    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    I can't help feeling that Justine Greening thought she would be left in post if she simply said no, as so many others had. May obviously felt that she could not back down again without looking (even more) ridiculous.

    I s

    According to the papers Mrs May has not liked then tone of Justine Greening, nor the fact that Greening was proven right about grammar schools and made Nick Timothy look like an idiot.

    From this morning's Red Box email.

    It had been briefed that Justine Greening's hold on the role of education secretary was in doubt, but after other ministers had refused to budge, she did the same. Unlike the others, Theresa May deployed her renowned skills of compromise, flexibility and guile, and sacked her.

    SNIP

    So the first openly gay woman in cabinet and the first state-educated education secretary returns to the backbenches: because what the prime minister really needs is another Remainer with a grievance. Greening has made clear she will be "representing" her community, which happened to vote something like 70 per cent in favour of Remain. A rebel is born.

    Friends insist she had done a "bloody good job" in education and did not want to be just shunted around Whitehall. They also suspect the hand of Nick Timothy, SNIP
    On the other hand, one can only have limited sympathy for someone who flounces when offered a reasonable Cabinet job. She wasn't being demoted.
    An absurd post. A key part of one's career management is knowing when to say 'no'. If I had taken every job offered me over the years I would have been utterly miserable and possibly mentally ill by now. I am sure the same is true of many members on PB. Only a fool or a desperate wannabe would accept the DWP job. Thanks to the work of that incompetent clown IDS, it's the worst job in the cabinet and the definition of a poisoned chalice.
    Nobody has the *right" to be in any particular Cabinet position.
    I didn't say she did. She did the decent and sensible thing and told the hapless and ineffectual May where to stick her crappy offer.
    The DWP job is an important one, and of equivalent status to Education Secretary. And yes, it's difficult and challenging. But, if you turn down difficult and challenging work, of equivalent status to your current position, that reflects more on you than on the person making the offer.
    Not so. The sensible professional chooses role where he or she has a good chance of succeeding. The DWP gig is not one of those roles.
    Has she been especially successful at education?
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 7,596
    Scott_P said:
    I think all four ousted ministers would wall foul of such a code.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 37,213
    SeanT said:

    Just brilliant. What an editor, to find and hire such talent.

    Can we assume he hasn't commissioned you to write a piece yet?
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 1,079
    SeanT said:

    My god, that's genius. She has a spray can marked REFRESH, but then..... wait for it... she presses the nozzle and it blows INTO her face rather than AWAY from it.


    Yes, INTO and TOWARDS her face, rather than spraying OUTWARDS and away from the face, as is traditional.

    Just brilliant. What an editor, to find and hire such talent.
    I'm not sure why the first panel is there at all
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 20,812
    Sean_F said:

    Raab is new Housing minister. Gotta get that one right and fast.

    say it quietly but new builds are doing okay right now.

    Starts/completes at c.200,000 plus 20,000 or so conversions.
    Construction output is up about 27% since 2013. Initial estimates from the ONS usually show construction output in the doldrums, before the numbers get substantially revised upwards.
    As I have said before if they just got out of their offices and counted the cranes on the horizon they could do a better job. When I was in London for the cricket in the summer (back in the days when England won occasionally) there were cranes everywhere on both sides of the Thames and we were being told that construction was in recession.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 15,168
    Scott_P said:
    They should add a requirement to check the Twitter feed of any proposed candidates for what used to be called a Quango.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 6,210
    Sean_F said:

    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    I can't help feeling that Justine Greening thought she would be left in post if she simply said no, as so many others had. May obviously felt that she could not back down again without looking (even more) ridiculous.

    I s

    According to the papers Mrs May has not liked then tone of Justine Greening, nor the fact that Greening was proven right about grammar schools and made Nick Timothy look like an idiot.

    From this morning's Red Box email.

    It had been briefed that Justine Greening's hold on the role of education secretary was in doubt, but after other ministers had refused to budge, she did the same. Unlike the others, Theresa May deployed her renowned skills of compromise, flexibility and guile, and sacked her.

    SNIP

    So the first openly gay woman in cabinet and the first state-educated education secretary returns to the backbenches: because what the prime minister really needs is another Remainer with a grievance. Greening has made clear she will be "representing" her community, which happened to vote something like 70 per cent in favour of Remain. A rebel is born.

    Friends insist she had done a "bloody good job" in education and did not want to be just shunted around Whitehall. They also suspect the hand of Nick Timothy, SNIP
    On the other hand, one can only have limited sympathy for someone who flounces when offered a reasonable Cabinet job. She wasn't being demoted.
    An absurd post. A key part of one's career management is knowing when to say 'no'. If I had taken every job offered me over the years I would have been utterly miserable and possibly mentally ill by now. I am sure the same is true of many members on PB. Only a fool or a desperate wannabe would accept the DWP job. Thanks to the work of that incompetent clown IDS, it's the worst job in the cabinet and the definition of a poisoned chalice.
    Nobody has the *right" to be in any particular Cabinet position.
    No, but an Education Secretary who has been in post for a single year has ever right to say no to a pointless move which seems motivated largely by May's personal agenda rather than any serious policy issues.

    Being prepared to take a hospital pass for the team is one thing; taking it merely to gratify the animus of your captain quite another.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 15,130

    He's lucky to get moved sideways and not sacked

    Why, has he done something especially egregious?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 20,812

    Essentially TMay needs to be in a job where she doesn't have to interact with people.

    Not sure that is compatible with the job she has, although she does seem to keep interaction at a minimum.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 3,522
    SeanT said:

    My god, that's genius. She has a spray can marked REFRESH, but then..... wait for it... she presses the nozzle and it blows INTO her face rather than AWAY from it.


    Yes, INTO and TOWARDS her face, rather than spraying OUTWARDS and away from the face, as is traditional.

    Just brilliant. What an editor, to find and hire such talent.
    Rehire I'd have said - Adams was the cartoonist for the Standard back in the 1990s.
  • MaxPB said:

    He's lucky to get moved sideways and not sacked

    Why, has he done something especially egregious?
    He appointed Toby Young.

    I got the feeling in her interview on Sunday Mrs May wasn't impressed.

    She couldn't sack Boris Johnson's brother.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 37,213
    @theousherwood: Just watching Dominic Grieve walk into Downing Street. A job would be one way to ensure no more nasty rebellions on Brexit legislation.

    @bbclaurak: Interesting ... what would he go back to having been in Cabinet before ? Raab’s job at Justice is vacant twitter.com/theousherwood/…
  • Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,238
    Scott_P said:

    @theousherwood: Just watching Dominic Grieve walk into Downing Street. A job would be one way to ensure no more nasty rebellions on Brexit legislation.

    @bbclaurak: Interesting ... what would he go back to having been in Cabinet before ? Raab’s job at Justice is vacant twitter.com/theousherwood/…

    Attorney General? I can't remember if Jeremy Wright has been reappointed or not?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 6,210
    Scott_P said:
    So onanism is still acceptable then ?
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 7,596

    Scott_P said:

    @theousherwood: Just watching Dominic Grieve walk into Downing Street. A job would be one way to ensure no more nasty rebellions on Brexit legislation.

    @bbclaurak: Interesting ... what would he go back to having been in Cabinet before ? Raab’s job at Justice is vacant twitter.com/theousherwood/…

    Attorney General? I can't remember if Jeremy Wright has been reappointed or not?
    That's his old job... would he take it...
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 37,213
    Nigelb said:

    So onanism is still acceptable then ?

    Look at the wankers still in post...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 15,168
    Is this list in order? DWP is bottom.

  • marke09marke09 Posts: 827

    Scott_P said:

    @theousherwood: Just watching Dominic Grieve walk into Downing Street. A job would be one way to ensure no more nasty rebellions on Brexit legislation.

    @bbclaurak: Interesting ... what would he go back to having been in Cabinet before ? Raab’s job at Justice is vacant twitter.com/theousherwood/…

    Attorney General? I can't remember if Jeremy Wright has been reappointed or not?
    yes he has
  • midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,069
    edited January 9
    Sean_F said:

    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    I can't help feeling that Justine Greening thought she would be left in post if she simply said no, as so many others had. May obviously felt that she could not back down again without looking (even more) ridiculous.

    I s

    According to the papers Mrs May has not liked then tone of Justine Greening, nor the fact that Greening was proven right about grammar schools and made Nick Timothy look like an idiot.

    From this morning's Red Box email.

    It had been briefed that Justine Greening's hold on the role of education secretary was in doubt, but after other ministers had refused to budge, she did the same. Unlike the others, Theresa May deployed her renowned skills of compromise, flexibility and guile, and sacked her.

    SNIP

    So the first openly gay woman in cabinet and the first state-educated education secretary returns to the backbenches: because what the prime minister really needs is another Remainer with a grievance. Greening has made clear she will be "representing" her community, which happened to vote something like 70 per cent in favour of Remain. A rebel is born.

    Friends insist she had done a "bloody good job" in education and did not want to be just shunted around Whitehall. They also suspect the hand of Nick Timothy, SNIP
    On the other hand, one can only have limited sympathy for someone who flounces when offered a reasonable Cabinet job. She wasn't being demoted.
    An absurd post. A key part of one's career management is knowing when to say 'no'. If I had taken every job offered me over the years I would have been utterly miserable and possibly mentally ill by now. I am sure the same is true of many members on PB. Only a fool or a desperate wannabe would accept the DWP job. Thanks to the work of that incompetent clown IDS, it's the worst job in the cabinet and the definition of a poisoned chalice.
    Nobody has the *right" to be in any particular Cabinet position.
    I didn't say she did. She did the decent and sensible thing and told the hapless and ineffectual May where to stick her crappy offer.
    The DWP job is an important one, and of equivalent status to Education Secretary. And yes, it's difficult and challenging. But, if you turn down difficult and challenging work, of equivalent status to your current position, that reflects more on you than on the person making the offer.
    Offering someone a job nobody wants because one is too spineless to sack them directly reflects fairly poorly on the PM. Particularly bearing in mind the leeway offered to certain other cabinet colleagues.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 4,550

    Scott_P said:

    @theousherwood: Just watching Dominic Grieve walk into Downing Street. A job would be one way to ensure no more nasty rebellions on Brexit legislation.

    @bbclaurak: Interesting ... what would he go back to having been in Cabinet before ? Raab’s job at Justice is vacant twitter.com/theousherwood/…

    Attorney General? I can't remember if Jeremy Wright has been reappointed or not?
    That's his old job... would he take it...
    Grieve would be an ideal CON leader
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 20,812
    SeanT said:

    My god, that's genius. She has a spray can marked REFRESH, but then..... wait for it... she presses the nozzle and it blows INTO her face rather than AWAY from it.


    Yes, INTO and TOWARDS her face, rather than spraying OUTWARDS and away from the face, as is traditional.

    Just brilliant. What an editor, to find and hire such talent.
    I've said before that if I had the right to a private members bill only Matt would be allowed to do political cartoons. The others just aren't funny.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 15,168

    Scott_P said:

    @theousherwood: Just watching Dominic Grieve walk into Downing Street. A job would be one way to ensure no more nasty rebellions on Brexit legislation.

    @bbclaurak: Interesting ... what would he go back to having been in Cabinet before ? Raab’s job at Justice is vacant twitter.com/theousherwood/…

    Attorney General? I can't remember if Jeremy Wright has been reappointed or not?
    That's his old job... would he take it...
    Wright is in post still and will remain according to No.10 twitter feed
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 6,380

    He's lucky to get moved sideways and not sacked

    Boris probably told Tezzie what job his bro wanted. Minister for London sounds like a step towards running for mayor.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 15,168

    He's lucky to get moved sideways and not sacked

    Boris probably told Tezzie what job his bro wanted. Minister for London sounds like a step towards running for mayor.
    Is he in favour of HS2?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 15,130
    edited January 9

    Scott_P said:

    @theousherwood: Just watching Dominic Grieve walk into Downing Street. A job would be one way to ensure no more nasty rebellions on Brexit legislation.

    @bbclaurak: Interesting ... what would he go back to having been in Cabinet before ? Raab’s job at Justice is vacant twitter.com/theousherwood/…

    Attorney General? I can't remember if Jeremy Wright has been reappointed or not?
    That's his old job... would he take it...
    Grieve would be an ideal CON leader
    To take us back down to fewer than 200 seats? Sure.
  • Scott_P said:

    @theousherwood: Just watching Dominic Grieve walk into Downing Street. A job would be one way to ensure no more nasty rebellions on Brexit legislation.

    @bbclaurak: Interesting ... what would he go back to having been in Cabinet before ? Raab’s job at Justice is vacant twitter.com/theousherwood/…

    Attorney General? I can't remember if Jeremy Wright has been reappointed or not?
    That's his old job... would he take it...
    Grieve would be an ideal CON leader
    He's my kind of Tory, plus it would be great to have someone who read History as PM.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 6,380
    Has Toby Tweeted to opine on that photo of Justine on the front of the London Freesheet?
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 7,596
    MaxPB said:

    Scott_P said:

    @theousherwood: Just watching Dominic Grieve walk into Downing Street. A job would be one way to ensure no more nasty rebellions on Brexit legislation.

    @bbclaurak: Interesting ... what would he go back to having been in Cabinet before ? Raab’s job at Justice is vacant twitter.com/theousherwood/…

    Attorney General? I can't remember if Jeremy Wright has been reappointed or not?
    That's his old job... would he take it...
    Grieve would be an ideal CON leader
    To take us back down to fewer than 200 seats? Sure.
    You mean, on Brexit?

    It is certainly an area he could have applied himself more valuably if he had been prepared to put in the hard work compromising.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 6,210
    Sean_F said:

    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    I can't help feeling that Justine Greening thought she would be left in post if she simply said no, as so many others had. May obviously felt that she could not back down again without looking (even more) ridiculous.

    I s

    According to the papers Mrs May has not liked then tone of Justine Greening, nor the fact that Greening was proven right about grammar schools and made Nick Timothy look like an idiot.

    From this morning's Red Box email.

    It had been briefed that Justine Greening's hold on the role of education secretary was in doubt, but after other ministers had refused to budge, she did the same. Unlike the others, Theresa May deployed her renowned skills of compromise, flexibility and guile, and sacked her.

    SNIP

    Friends insist she had done a "bloody good job" in education and did not want to be just shunted around Whitehall. They also suspect the hand of Nick Timothy, SNIP
    On the other hand, one can only have limited sympathy for someone who flounces when offered a reasonable Cabinet job. She wasn't being demoted.
    An absurd post. A key part of one's career management is knowing when to say 'no'. If I had taken every job offered me over the years I would have been utterly miserable and possibly mentally ill by now. I am sure the same is true of many members on PB. Only a fool or a desperate wannabe would accept the DWP job. Thanks to the work of that incompetent clown IDS, it's the worst job in the cabinet and the definition of a poisoned chalice.
    Nobody has the *right" to be in any particular Cabinet position.
    I didn't say she did. She did the decent and sensible thing and told the hapless and ineffectual May where to stick her crappy offer.
    The DWP job is an important one, and of equivalent status to Education Secretary. And yes, it's difficult and challenging. But, if you turn down difficult and challenging work, of equivalent status to your current position, that reflects more on you than on the person making the offer.
    Not so. The sensible professional chooses role where he or she has a good chance of succeeding. The DWP gig is not one of those roles.
    Has she been especially successful at education?
    I think our own ydoether referred to her as the best Education Secretary for a decade or so, and his opinion is at the very least worth considering. As for 'successful', a year isn't much time to effect dramatic change, which is rather the point.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 20,812

    He's lucky to get moved sideways and not sacked

    Boris probably told Tezzie what job his bro wanted. Minister for London sounds like a step towards running for mayor.
    That was my thought.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 42,736

    DavidL said:

    I can't help feeling that Justine Greening thought she would be left in post if she simply said no, as so many others had. May obviously felt that she could not back down again without looking (even more) ridiculous.

    I said at the weekend that an attempt to have a significant reshuffle could be fatal for Mrs May. She simply does not have the power to make these kinds of decisions and is there on the tolerance of many different sections of her party, any one of which is larger than her majority.

    The Brexit negotiations are undoubtedly a complicating factor forcing people to hold their hands at the moment but the end has been brought closer by this farce. Her political incompetence is extraordinary for someone who held such senior office for so long before becoming PM.

    According to the papers Mrs May has not liked then tone of Justine Greening, nor the fact that Greening was proven right about grammar schools and made Nick Timothy look like an idiot.

    From this morning's Red Box email.

    It had been briefed that Justine Greening's hold on the role of education secretary was in doubt, but after other ministers had refused to budge, she will be "representing" her community, which happened to vote something like 70 per cent in favour of Remain. A rebel is born.

    Friends insist she had done a "bloody good job" in education and did not want to be just shunted around Whitehall. They also suspect the hand of Nick Timothy, May's former chief of staff, who has used a number of articles to single out Greening for criticism. There were whispers of Greening getting "too close" to teaching unions (perhaps no bad thing when only 8 per cent of teachers voted Tory last year) and speaking up too much in cabinet.

    "A number of people who have been disloyal and ineffective have been allowed to stay in their roles," one senior Tory MP told me last night. "Why is Justine the only one to go? Because the PM has Nick Timothy whispering in her ear."
    She hasn't been 'proven right' about grammar schools, there is still plenty of demand for them, it was the dementia tax that lost the Tory majority not having a few more grammar schools
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 948
    Not happy about Raab at Housing. He's a lawyer and all round brain-box when housing needs a real doer and persuader - I worry he's too much a thinker.

    Grieve getting a job would surely mean there have been some serious behind the scenes negotiations going on about softening Brexit; there's no way he's the sort to just forget his principles for a ministerial Jaguar.

    And reflecting on Justine Greening's demise, a terrible look for the PM, but is it just that they didn't get on? May must have figured that getting her out of the room is worth another Brexit rebel.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,424

    ...plus it would be great to have someone who read History as PM.

    Experience of the period 27 June 2007 – 11 May 2010 suggests the opposite.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 37,213
    tpfkar said:

    And reflecting on Justine Greening's demise, a terrible look for the PM, but is it just that they didn't get on? May must have figured that getting her out of the room is worth another Brexit rebel.

    Greening appears competent.

    May can't afford to have too many competent people close to her. It would invite unwelcome comparisons
  • felixfelix Posts: 7,679
    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    I can't help feeling that Justine Greening thought she would be left in post if she simply said no, as so many others had. May obviously felt that she could not back down again without looking (even more) ridiculous.

    I s

    According to the papers Mrs May has not liked then tone of Justine Greening, nor the fact that Greening was proven right about grammar schools and made Nick Timothy look like an idiot.

    From this morning's Red Box email.

    It had been briefed that Justine Greening's hold on the role of education secretary was in doubt, but after other ministers had refused to budge, she did the same. Unlike the others, Theresa May deployed her renowned skills of compromise, flexibility and guile, and sacked her.

    SNIP

    So the first openly gay woman in cabinet and the first state-educated education secretary returns to the backbenches: because what the prime minister really needs is another Remainer with a grievance. Greening has made clear she will be "representing" her community, which happened to vote something like 70 per cent in favour of Remain. A rebel is born.

    Friends insist she had done a "bloody good job" in education and did not want to be just shunted around Whitehall. They also suspect the hand of Nick Timothy, SNIP
    On the other hand, one can only have limited sympathy for someone who flounces when offered a reasonable Cabinet job. She wasn't being demoted.
    An absurd post..
    Nobody has the *right" to be in any particular Cabinet position.
    I didn't say she did. She did the decent and sensible thing and told the hapless and ineffectual May where to stick her crappy offer.
    The DWP job is an important one, and of equivalent status to Education Secretary. And yes, it's difficult and challenging. But, if you turn down difficult and challenging work, of equivalent status to your current position, that reflects more on you than on the person making the offer.
    Not so. The sensible professional chooses role where he or she has a good chance of succeeding. The DWP gig is not one of those roles.
    Isn't it time someone called out Anazina for the enormous amounts of garbage she 's posting - oops there i did it. :)
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 20,812
    I would like to say that May would not have Grieve walking up Downing Street unless she has already got an understanding that he will take the position he is going to be offered rather than risk yet more humiliation but that just might require an element of competence. I really struggle to see what position Grieve could hold in a government whose primary focus is the delivery of Brexit.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 42,736
    To lose the UK from the EU was careless, to lose Poland and Hungary too would be disastrous
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 18,098

    Scott_P said:

    @theousherwood: Just watching Dominic Grieve walk into Downing Street. A job would be one way to ensure no more nasty rebellions on Brexit legislation.

    @bbclaurak: Interesting ... what would he go back to having been in Cabinet before ? Raab’s job at Justice is vacant twitter.com/theousherwood/…

    Attorney General? I can't remember if Jeremy Wright has been reappointed or not?
    That's his old job... would he take it...
    Grieve would be an ideal CON leader
    He's my kind of Tory, plus it would be great to have someone who read History as PM.
    If a knowledge of history is required to be PM - you just went to the back of the queue.....
  • ...plus it would be great to have someone who read History as PM.

    Experience of the period 27 June 2007 – 11 May 2010 suggests the opposite.
    But Grieve used his history degree to move into a noble profession.

    Brown went into TV.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 42,736
    Scott_P said:

    MaxPB said:

    Well there's one positive about all of this, we know for sure that 2022 will have a different Tory leader. May will never be able to hang on now. She's created too many enemies and botched everything up one too many times.

    This Tweet has aged particularly well...

    She has made more progress on her talks with the EU than her predecessor did
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,424
    tpfkar said:

    And reflecting on Justine Greening's demise, a terrible look for the PM, but is it just that they didn't get on? May must have figured that getting her out of the room is worth another Brexit rebel.

    You can't have a reshuffle without someone getting booted out.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 21,878
    Nigelb said:

    Sean_F said:

    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    I can't help feeling that Justine Greening thought she would be left in post if she simply said no, as so many others had. May obviously felt that she could not back down again without looking (even more) ridiculous.

    I s

    According to the papers Mrs May has not liked then tone of Justine Greening, nor the fact that Greening was proven right about grammar schools and made Nick Timothy look like an idiot.

    From this morning's Red Box email.

    It had been briefed that Justine Greening's hold on the role of education secretary was in doubt, but after other ministers had refused to budge, she did the same. Unlike the others, Theresa May deployed her renowned skills of compromise, flexibility and guile, and sacked her.

    SNIP

    Friends insist she had done a "bloody good job" in education and did not want to be just shunted around Whitehall. They also suspect the hand of Nick Timothy, SNIP
    On the other hand, one can only have limited sympathy for someone who flounces when offered a reasonable Cabinet job. She wasn't being demoted.
    Nobody has the *right" to be in any particular Cabinet position.
    I didn't say she did. She did the decent and sensible thing and told the hapless and ineffectual May where to stick her crappy offer.
    The DWP job is an important one, and of equivalent status to Education Secretary. And yes, it's difficult and challenging. But, if you turn down difficult and challenging work, of equivalent status to your current position, that reflects more on you than on the person making the offer.
    Not so. The sensible professional chooses role where he or she has a good chance of succeeding. The DWP gig is not one of those roles.
    Has she been especially successful at education?
    I think our own ydoether referred to her as the best Education Secretary for a decade or so, and his opinion is at the very least worth considering. As for 'successful', a year isn't much time to effect dramatic change, which is rather the point.
    Ydoethur was being somewhat ironic. He rated her because she didn't actually do anything.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 37,213
    HYUFD said:

    She has made more progress on her talks with the EU than her predecessor did

  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 7,596
    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sean_F said:

    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    I can't help feeling that Justine Greening thought she would be left in post if she simply said no, as so many others had. May obviously felt that she could not back down again without looking (even more) ridiculous.

    I s

    According to the papers Mrs May has not liked then tone of Justine Greening, nor the fact that Greening was proven right about grammar schools and made Nick Timothy look like an idiot.

    From this morning's Red Box email.

    It had been briefed that Justine Greening's hold on the role of education secretary was in doubt, but after other ministers had refused to budge, she did the same. Unlike the others, Theresa May deployed her renowned skills of compromise, flexibility and guile, and sacked her.

    SNIP

    Friends insist she had done a "bloody good job" in education and did not want to be just shunted around Whitehall. They also suspect the hand of Nick Timothy, SNIP
    On the other hand, one can only have limited sympathy for someone who flounces when offered a reasonable Cabinet job. She wasn't being demoted.
    Nobody has the *right" to be in any particular Cabinet position.
    I didn't say she did. She did the decent and sensible thing and told the hapless and ineffectual May where to stick her crappy offer.
    The DWP job is an important one, and of equivalent status to Education Secretary. And yes, it's difficult and challenging. But, if you turn down difficult and challenging work, of equivalent status to your current position, that reflects more on you than on the person making the offer.
    Not so. The sensible professional chooses role where he or she has a good chance of succeeding. The DWP gig is not one of those roles.
    Has she been especially successful at education?
    I think our own ydoether referred to her as the best Education Secretary for a decade or so, and his opinion is at the very least worth considering. As for 'successful', a year isn't much time to effect dramatic change, which is rather the point.
    Ydoethur was being somewhat ironic. He rated her because she didn't actually do anything.
    Come to Norfolk. There, the key aim of government is considered to be doing nothing.
  • Scott_P said:

    @theousherwood: Just watching Dominic Grieve walk into Downing Street. A job would be one way to ensure no more nasty rebellions on Brexit legislation.

    @bbclaurak: Interesting ... what would he go back to having been in Cabinet before ? Raab’s job at Justice is vacant twitter.com/theousherwood/…

    Attorney General? I can't remember if Jeremy Wright has been reappointed or not?
    That's his old job... would he take it...
    Grieve would be an ideal CON leader
    He's my kind of Tory, plus it would be great to have someone who read History as PM.
    If a knowledge of history is required to be PM - you just went to the back of the queue.....
    I wave my A in A Level History certificate in your face.

    This was when A Levels were hard.
This discussion has been closed.