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  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 24,532

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Stocky said:

    Mike says that May may like to continue to the next election but I cannot see how this would work.

    She will either fight or not fight the next election. If she doesn`t fight it then she will have to step down well before the next election for a successor to establish him/herself.

    She will go certainly by the end of the transition period most likely replaced by Davis or Boris with Gove also a contender if he does not back the latter
    To
    The biggest swing from the Tories in the polls since the general election has not been to Labour but to UKIP, Hunt is not going to win them back, Boris or Davis might.
    It is over for the old guard and for Boris and Davis.

    No
    The need for the new leader post Brexit is to regain the remainers, UKIP is dying and will be gone by summer 2019
    No

    Corbyn will ensure the Tories have a great chance of winning next time. It's the election after that which is likely to lay them very low indeed and probably for a fair amount of time.

    I'm kind of ok with that. In GE2027 the Tories will have been in power for 17 years. It's healthy for democracy for there to be a change and for the Tories to think about renewing themselves in opposition.

    I just hope it's opposition for only 5 years, rather than another 13 or more ;-)

    I suspect it will be for a lot longer than five years. The Tories are already tired and out of ideas. Another seven years in office will exhaust them completely - and give Labour a built-in Tory Brexit excuse for everything that goes wrong on their watch. If I am still alive in 2027, I expect that I will have seen my last Tory government (I'll be 64).

    I think that's nonsense. Well, as much nonsense as the excitable Tory MPs who thought they'd be in power until the 2040s at the peak of the Maygasm, when Labour under Corbyn looked finished.

    Sooner or later, Labour will overtax, overspend, or try and push too much radical change the electorate don't like that alienates floating voters. At the same time, the Tories will look to harry, exploit weakness and put themselves in a competitive position - politics never remains static.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 923
    Topping I would accept the anti imperialism argument to an extent (for some anyway) is that wrong in itself?

    For example despite anti imperial agendas you don't see much criticism (I don't mean nobody ever and there is always some valid criticism or room for improvement in every thing that it is done) if there is just an aid effort or something good say by America or Britain is they contain their anti imperialist urges to just criticising the stuff they do wrong then that is a good thing I would say.

    I have always believed in an element of cleaning up your own mess before criticising others (can't remember the saying) so we in the West should be very vigilant of our own injustices so we can criticise others and lead by example.

    The problem with Corbyn will come unstuck is I don't see how it happens before he comes into power, we have had a couple of votes on the EU and the press have a had a field day with him and there has been little affect. Is he really going to come unstuck before winning an election?

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 20,812
    HHemmelig said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Stocky said:



    The need for the new leader post Brexit is to regain the remainers, UKIP is dying and will be gone by summer 2019
    specially IHT

    Corbyn will ensure the Tories have a great chance of winning next time. It's the election after that which is likely to lay them very low indeed and probably for a fair amount of time.

    more ;-)

    I suspect it will be for a lot longer than five years. The Tories are already tired and out of ideas. Another seven years in office will exhaust them completely - and give Labour a built-in Tory Brexit excuse for everything that goes wrong on their watch. If I am still alive in 2027, I expect that I will have seen my last Tory government (I'll be 64).

    When I was at university circa 1995, a now forgotten Major cabinet minister Roger Freeman MP came to address the student Tories. In private conversation he said how defeat in 97 wouldn't be so bad as Blair would quickly lose popularity and the Tories would reinvigorate in opposition and be back in power a few years later. Didnt quite work out way did it, and Freeman clearly didnt expect to lose his own seat.

    The electorate naturally fluctuates between being angry with Labour for messing up the economy, and being angry with the Tories for messing up public services. When Labour do next get in, they'll be in for a fair while.
    Since 1979 we have had 17 years of Tory government followed by 13 years of Labour government followed by (if we go to 2022) a minimum of 12 years of Tory led government. The pattern of the 60s and 70s when each election seemed to threaten a change is irredeemably broken. There are huge advantages in incumbency and governments have to both screw up really badly and be facing a credible opposition to be thrown out.

    It is easy to forecast that Corbyn and McDonnell will screw up badly but any Tory would be very foolish to underestimate just how hard it is to chuck out a government in this country.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 24,532
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Stocky said:

    Mike says that May may like to continue to the next election but I cannot see how this would work.



    She will go certainly by the end of the transition period most likely replaced by Davis or Boris with Gove also a contender if he does not back the latter
    To
    The biggest swing from the Tories in the polls since the general election has not been to Labour but to UKIP, Hunt is not going to win them back, Boris or Davis might.
    It is over for the old guard and for Boris and Davis.

    No it is not, as I said Boris is no more 'old guard' than Hunt and it is Tory to UKIP voters the Tories need to focus on, those who voted for Corbyn in June will almost all certainly vote for him again next time regardless of the Tory leader.
    The need for the new leader post Brexit is to regain the remainers, UKIP is dying and will be gone by summer 2019
    No

    Corbyn will ensure the Tories have a great chance of winning next time. It's the election after that which is likely to lay them very low indeed and probably for a fair amount of time.

    I'm kind of ok with that. In GE2027 the Tories will have been in power for 17 years. It's healthy for democracy for there to be a change and for the Tories to think about renewing themselves in opposition.

    I just hope it's opposition for only 5 years, rather than another 13 or more ;-)
    I'm not so sure; it could easily be the other way around. Losing again under Corbyn would hit Labour hard, and another spell in opposition could very easily start a sequence of events that leads to a re-shaping of politics on the centre left. Whereas if Corbyn wins, particularly if narrowly, so that his wackier ideas are constrained by the SNP or LDs, the Tories could easily be out of office for some time - particularly if their Brexit is very obviously going sour.
    Corbyn will have licence for a few years, if he does win, and will blame his failings and mistakes on anyone but himself, but sooner or later his ideology will butt up against reality.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 26,620
    HHemmelig said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Stocky said:

    Mike says that May may like to continue to the next election but I cannot see how this would work.

    She will either fight or not fight the next election. If she doesn`t fight it then she will have to step down well before the next election for a successor to establish him/herself.

    She will go certainly by the end of the transition period most likely replaced by Davis or Boris with Gove also a contender if he does not back the latter
    To
    The biggest swing from the Tories in the polls since the general election has not been to Labour but to UKIP, Hunt is not going to win them back, Boris or Davis might.
    It is over for the old guard and for Boris and Davis.

    No it is not, as I said Boris is no more 'old guard' than Hunt and it is Tory to UKIP voters the Tories need to focus on, those who voted for Corbyn in June will almost all certainly vote for him again next time regardless of the Tory leader.
    The need for the new leader post Brexit is to regain the remainers, UKIP is dying and will be gone by summer 2019
    specially IHT

    Corbyn will ensure the Tories have a great chance of winning next time. It's the election after that which is likely to lay them very low indeed and probably for a fair amount of time.

    more ;-)

    I suspect (I'll be 64).

    When I was at university circa 1995, a now forgotten Major cabinet minister Roger Freeman MP came to address the student Tories. In private conversation he said how defeat in 97 wouldn't be so bad as Blair would quickly lose popularity and the Tories would reinvigorate in opposition and be back in power a few years later. Didnt quite work out way did it, and Freeman clearly didnt expect to lose his own seat.

    The electorate naturally fluctuates between being angry with Labour for messing up the economy, and being angry with the Tories for messing up public services. When Labour do next get in, they'll be in for a fair while.

    The electorate seems to be inclined to give parties a pretty long run in power. if the Tories do win in 2022, they will be in office for years after Labour was in office for 13 years after the Tories were in office for 18 years. The brief period of back and forth between Labour and the Tories from 64 to 79 was the exception, not the rule.

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 24,532
    DavidL said:

    HHemmelig said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Stocky said:



    The need for the new leader post Brexit is to regain the remainers, UKIP is dying and will be gone by summer 2019
    specially IHT

    Corbyn will ensure the Tories have a great chance of winning next time. It's the election after that which is likely to lay them very low indeed and probably for a fair amount of time.

    more ;-)

    I suspect it will be for a lot longer than five years. The Tories are already tired and out of ideas. Another seven years in office will exhaust them completely - and give Labour a built-in Tory Brexit excuse for everything that goes wrong on their watch. If I am still alive in 2027, I expect that I will have seen my last Tory government (I'll be 64).

    When I was at university circa 1995, a now forgotten Major cabinet minister Roger Freeman MP came to address the student Tories. In private conversation he said how defeat in 97 wouldn't be so bad as Blair would quickly lose popularity and the Tories would reinvigorate in opposition and be back in power a few years later. Didnt quite work out way did it, and Freeman clearly didnt expect to lose his own seat.

    The electorate naturally fluctuates between being angry with Labour for messing up the economy, and being angry with the Tories for messing up public services. When Labour do next get in, they'll be in for a fair while.
    Since 1979 we have had 17 years of Tory government followed by 13 years of Labour government followed by (if we go to 2022) a minimum of 12 years of Tory led government. The pattern of the 60s and 70s when each election seemed to threaten a change is irredeemably broken. There are huge advantages in incumbency and governments have to both screw up really badly and be facing a credible opposition to be thrown out.

    It is easy to forecast that Corbyn and McDonnell will screw up badly but any Tory would be very foolish to underestimate just how hard it is to chuck out a government in this country.
    Who knows?

    I'm not sure there are any rules anymore.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 13,665

    Topping I would accept the anti imperialism argument to an extent (for some anyway) is that wrong in itself?

    For example despite anti imperial agendas you don't see much criticism (I don't mean nobody ever and there is always some valid criticism or room for improvement in every thing that it is done) if there is just an aid effort or something good say by America or Britain is they contain their anti imperialist urges to just criticising the stuff they do wrong then that is a good thing I would say.

    I have always believed in an element of cleaning up your own mess before criticising others (can't remember the saying) so we in the West should be very vigilant of our own injustices so we can criticise others and lead by example.

    The problem with Corbyn will come unstuck is I don't see how it happens before he comes into power, we have had a couple of votes on the EU and the press have a had a field day with him and there has been little affect. Is he really going to come unstuck before winning an election?

    Sorry I am going to do a @Cyclefree on you but I must dash!! Apols was good speaking with you.

    Til next time.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 923
    I'd fancy Labour to have at least two terms if they got in the at the next election.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 24,532

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Stocky said:

    Mike says that May may like to continue to the next election but I cannot see how this would work.

    nt).

    er
    Tbe much clearer
    The biggest might.
    It is over for the old guard and for Boris and Davis.

    No it is not, vote for him again next time regardless of the Tory leader.
    The need for the new leader post Brexit is to regain the remainers, UKIP is dying and will be gone by summer 2019


    Corbyn will come unstuck (eventually) because unlike his most fanatical supporters most people (even the very young) aren't motivated today by class conflict, or steeped in Trade Union traditions, and expect consumer choice and the chance to own their home.

    They (or at least a large number of them) are interested in internationalism and progressive causes on identity politics, the environment and animal rights, but his core socialist ideology is a minority taste and what support for it that exists is generally based on the belief he will offer more spending and free-stuff at no-cost to them.
    While don’t know about Corbyn getting unstuck (a lot of people are determined to project a certain image onto him) you are absolutely right re your second paragraph. It’s reflected in Curtice’s observation that Labour attracted most of all, not left wing voters but socially liberal voters. I suspect Corbyn knows that young people who voted for him care more about issues concerning identity politics/progressive causes than his particular brand of socialism that’s why he’s framing his ideology in terms of issues concerning austerity and home ownership.
    Yes, regarding politics tactics, he knows what he's doing.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 923
    Yes good talking with you too Topping I should go too, thanks for debating all and apologies for talking too much!
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,424

    Yes, regarding politics tactics, he knows what he's doing.

    More likely someone advising him does. There has been a very marked improvement in Labour's political tactics since late 2016. My hunch that that is because some of the old gang are back behind the scenes.
  • HHemmeligHHemmelig Posts: 617

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Stocky said:

    Mike says that May may like to continue to the next election but I cannot see how this would work.

    She will either fight or not fight the next election. If she doesn`t fight it then she will have to step down well before the next election for a successor to establish him/herself.

    She will go certainly by the end of the transition period most likely replaced by Davis or Boris with Gove also a contender if he does not back the latter
    To
    The biggest swing from the Tories in the polls since the general election has not been to Labour but to UKIP, Hunt is not going to win them back, Boris or Davis might.
    It is over for the and Davis.

    No
    The need for the new leader post Brexit is to regain the remainers, UKIP is dying and will be gone by summer 2019
    No

    Corbyn will ensure the Tories have a great chance of winning next time. It's the election after that which is likely to lay them very low indeed and probably for a fair amount of time.

    I'm kind of ok with that. In GE2027 the Tories will have been in power for 17 years. It's healthy for democracy for there to be a change and for the Tories to think about renewing themselves in opposition.

    I just hope it's opposition for only 5 years, rather than another 13 or more ;-)

    I suspect it will be for a lot longer than five years. The Tories are already tired and out of ideas. Another seven years in office will exhaust them completely - and give Labour a built-in Tory Brexit excuse for everything that goes wrong on their watch. If I am still alive in 2027, I expect that I will have seen my last Tory government (I'll be 64).

    I think that's nonsense. Well, as much nonsense as the excitable Tory MPs who thought they'd be in power until the 2040s at the peak of the Maygasm, when Labour under Corbyn looked finished.

    Sooner or later, Labour will overtax, overspend, or try and push too much radical change the electorate don't like that alienates floating voters. At the same time, the Tories will look to harry, exploit weakness and put themselves in a competitive position - politics never remains static.
    It probably won't be hard for Labour to buy a 2nd term with a massive spending splurge, blaming any economic problems on the Tories' handling of Brexit.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 6,862

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Corbynite. But dedicated Conservatives seem determined to underestimate just how much damage they are doing to the country at present. So throwing up their hands in horror at the prospect of a Labour government isn't the slam dunk they think it is.

    Any damage done to the economy will be as a result of the referendum result. It's damage which voters wanted, mistakenly in my view, but there we go. It would be catastrophic to double up and add Corbynomics to the mix.
    Although I agree with you on the principle, the problem is that Leavers don't think there are any consequences to their vote. That's Project Fear. Anything bad that happens has nothing to do with them so it must be the Tory government's fault. OTOH Remainers expect Brexit to be bad and a perfectly willing to blame the Tories for it. The tricky act the government needs to carry off is to ensure as little change with Brexit as possible while pretending everything is completely different. I am not sure they are clever enough to do it and the EU won't necessarily co-operate.

    Corbyn/McDonnell want to recast the Labour Party. They can only fully do that if they get into government, which means winning over those that don't share their agenda. It's a balancing act for them too.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 43,713
    Mr. Nabavi, indeed, aiding and abetting the far left. Depressing indeed.

    Mr. Hemmelig, that's a plausible result. Corbyn would be a ****ing disaster for this country.

    And, on that cheery note, I am off.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,273
    edited January 10

    DavidL said:

    [snip]

    Those who think that Labour could not do very serious damage to our economy, our public services and our standard of living in a short time are underestimating the underlying weaknesses in our economy to a dangerous extent.

    Exactly right. And we're not talking about a reasonably sensible potential Labour Chancellor along the lines of Alastair Darling or Ed Balls, who might spend more than is wise but who are not totally out with the fairies. We are talking about Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell, egged on by Seamas Milne and Jon Lansman. That is another league of destructiveness altogether.
    I'm struggling to see how Labour's policies could be more malign than Brexit.
    I sincerely hope you don't have to find out the hard way.
    Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Corbynite. But dedicated Conservatives seem determined to underestimate just how much damage they are doing to the country at present. So throwing up their hands in horror at the prospect of a Labour government isn't the slam dunk they think it is.
    +1. This reminds of Cleverly actually. He seems to think the Tories issue is that they weren’t combative enough when actually the Tory Press has spent the last two years really criticising Corbyn. The Tories need to convince people why a Tory government would be better for them, saying from the roof troops that Corbyn is evil and the anti-Christ isn’t going to get them anywhere.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 20,812
    Come on over. The water's lovely.
  • ITV Wales reporting tonight that Tony Rucinski former Wales CHC chief executive has sensationally claimed the Wales NHS and Government of nepotism and entitlement as he was gagged on whistle blowing by the Wales Health Minister who said he had to be kept out of the media.

    The chaos that is the Wales NHS is in the news daily and labour have no answers

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 14,574
    edited January 10

    Yes good talking with you too Topping I should go too, thanks for debating all and apologies for talking too much!

    You do not need to apologise for expressing your views. While I do not agree with them generally they do contribute to the debate
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 1,536
    Steve Richard's "Cameron Years" on Radio 4 is fascinating listening.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 6,489
    edited January 10
    FF43 said:

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Corbynite. But dedicated Conservatives seem determined to underestimate just how much damage they are doing to the country at present. So throwing up their hands in horror at the prospect of a Labour government isn't the slam dunk they think it is.

    Any damage done to the economy will be as a result of the referendum result. It's damage which voters wanted, mistakenly in my view, but there we go. It would be catastrophic to double up and add Corbynomics to the mix.
    Although I agree with you on the principle, the problem is that Leavers don't think there are any consequences to their vote. That's Project Fear. Anything bad that happens has nothing to do with them so it must be the Tory government's fault. OTOH Remainers expect Brexit to be bad and a perfectly willing to blame the Tories for it. The tricky act the government needs to carry off is to ensure as little change with Brexit as possible while pretending everything is completely different. I am not sure they are clever enough to do it and the EU won't necessarily co-operate.

    Corbyn/McDonnell want to recast the Labour Party. They can only fully do that if they get into government, which means winning over those that don't share their agenda. It's a balancing act for them too.
    I'm quite aware of the negative economic consequences - they were discussed and analysed at length in the pre-EUref IFS report. They simply haven't manifested themselves fully yet. The reduction in FDI will begin post-Brexit and so forth.

    Both sides of the argument should probably avoid treating (and labelling) the other as some monolithic bloc; just like political parties, both Remain and Leave voters are a broad church.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 42,736
    edited January 10

    HHemmelig said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Stocky said:

    Mike says that May may like to continue to the next election but I cannot see how this would work.

    She will either fight or not fight the next election. If she doesn`t fight it then she will have to step down well before the next election for a successor to establish him/herself.

    She will go certainly by the end of the transition period most likely replaced by Davis or Boris with Gove also a contender if he does not back the latter
    To
    The biggest swing from the Tories in the polls since the general election has not been to Labour but to UKIP, Hunt is not going to win them back, Boris or Davis might.
    It is over for the old guard and for Boris and Davis.

    No it is not, as I said Boris is no more 'old guard' than Hunt and it is Tory to UKIP voters the Tories need to focus on, those who voted for Corbyn in June will almost all certainly vote for him again next time regardless of the Tory leader.
    The need for the new leader post Brexit is to regain the remainers, UKIP is dying and will be gone by summer 2019
    specially IHT

    Corbyn will ensure the Tories have a great chance of winning next time. It's the election after that which is likely to lay them very low indeed and probably for a fair amount of time.

    more ;-)

    I suspect (I'll be 64).

    When I was at university circa 1995, a now forgotten Major the Tories for messing up public services. When Labour do next get in, they'll be in for a fair while.

    The electorate seems to be inclined to give parties a pretty long run in power. if the Tories do win in 2022, they will be in office for years after Labour was in office for 13 years after the Tories were in office for 18 years. The brief period of back and forth between Labour and the Tories from 64 to 79 was the exception, not the rule.

    There were so many changes of government in the 1960s and 1970s as Labour governments kept wrecking the economy and Heath could not control the unions, Thatcher and Blair stopped that pattern, Corbyn would restore it
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 6,489
    HYUFD said:

    HHemmelig said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Stocky said:

    Mike says that May may like to continue to the next election but I cannot see how this would work.

    She will either fight or not fight the next election. If she doesn`t fight it then she will have to step down well before the next election for a successor to establish him/herself.

    She will go certainly by the end of the transition period most likely replaced by Davis or Boris with Gove also a contender if he does not back the latter
    To
    The biggest swing from the Tories in the polls since the general election has not been to Labour but to UKIP, Hunt is not going to win them back, Boris or Davis might.
    It is over for the old guard and for Boris and Davis.

    No it is not, as I said Boris is no more 'old guard' than Hunt and it is Tory to UKIP voters the Tories need to focus on, those who voted for Corbyn in June will almost all certainly vote for him again next time regardless of the Tory leader.
    The need for the new leader post Brexit is to regain the remainers, UKIP is dying and will be gone by summer 2019
    specially IHT

    Corbyn will ensure the Tories have a great chance of winning next time. It's the election after that which is likely to lay them very low indeed and probably for a fair amount of time.

    more ;-)

    I suspect (I'll be 64).

    When I was at university circa 1995, a now forgotten Major the Tories for messing up public services. When Labour do next get in, they'll be in for a fair while.


    There were so many changes of government in the 19y0s and 1970s as Labour governments
    kept wrecking the economy, Blair stopped that pattern, Corbyn would restore it
    Hmm. I was there. Heath didn't exactly cover himself with glory. The economy really didn't start recovering in earnest until after the '81 recession - and that was probably mostly attributable to the impact of IT than Mrs Thatcher's pixie dust, much as I hate to take anything way from the blessed Margaret.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 19,879

    DavidL said:

    [snip]

    Those who think that Labour could not do very serious damage to our economy, our public services and our standard of living in a short time are underestimating the underlying weaknesses in our economy to a dangerous extent.

    Exactly right. And we're not talking about a reasonably sensible potential Labour Chancellor along the lines of Alastair Darling or Ed Balls, who might spend more than is wise but who are not totally out with the fairies. We are talking about Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell, egged on by Seamas Milne and Jon Lansman. That is another league of destructiveness altogether.
    I'm struggling to see how Labour's policies could be more malign than Brexit.
    I sincerely hope you don't have to find out the hard way.
    Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Corbynite. But dedicated Conservatives seem determined to underestimate just how much damage they are doing to the country at present. So throwing up their hands in horror at the prospect of a Labour government isn't the slam dunk they think it is.
    +1. This reminds of Cleverly actually. He seems to think the Tories issue is that they weren’t combative enough when actually the Tory Press has spent the last two years really criticising Corbyn.
    Cleverly said he cannot understand how anyone of African heritage can support the EU. Just imagine the Tory reaction if Diane Abbott had said the same thing.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 42,736
    John_M said:

    HYUFD said:

    HHemmelig said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Stocky said:

    Mike says that May may like to continue to the next election but I cannot see how this would work.

    She will either fight or not fight the next election. If she doesn`t fight it then she will have to step down well before the next election for a successor to establish him/herself.

    She will go certainly by the end of the transition period most likely replaced by Davis or Boris with Gove also a contender if he does not back the latter
    To
    The biggest swing from the Tories in the polls since the general election has not been to Labour but to UKIP, Hunt is not going to win them back, Boris or Davis might.
    It is over for the old guard and for Boris and Davis.

    No it is not, as I said Boris is no more 'old guard' ader.
    The need for the new leader post Brexit is to regain the remainers, UKIP is dying and will be gone by summer 2019
    specially IHT

    Corbyn will ensure the Tories have a great chance of winning next time. It's the election after that which is likely to lay them very low indeed and probably for a fair amount of time.

    more ;-)

    I suspect (I'll be 64).

    When I was at university circa 1995, a now forgotten Major the Tories for messing up public services. When Labour do next get in, they'll be in for a fair while.


    There were so many changes of government in the 19y0s and 1970s as Labour governments
    kept wrecking the economy, Blair stopped that pattern, Corbyn would restore it
    Hmm. I was there. Heath didn't exactly cover himself with glory. The economy really didn't start recovering in earnest until after the '81 recession - and that was probably mostly attributable to the impact of IT than Mrs Thatcher's pixie dust, much as I hate to take anything way from the blessed Margaret.
    Heath also failed to control the unions, Thatcher did. A Corbyn government would have a good chance of being so useless it would be the first one term government since Heath's and Wilson/Callaghan's
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,273
    edited January 10

    DavidL said:

    [snip]

    Those who think that Labour cuould not do very serious damage to our economy, our public services and our standard of living in a short time are underestimating the underlying weaknesses in our economy to a dangerous extent.

    Exactly right. And we're not talking about a reasonably sensible potential Labour Chancellor along the lines of Alastair Darling or Ed Balls, who might spend more than is wise but who are not totally out with the fairies. We are talking about Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell, egged on by Seamas Milne and Jon Lansman. That is another league of destructiveness altogether.
    I'm struggling to see how Labour's policies could be more malign than Brexit.
    I sincerely hope you don't have to find out the hard way.
    Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Corbynite. But dedicated Conservatives seem determined to underestimate just how much damage they are doing to the country at present. So throwing up their hands in horror at the prospect of a Labour government isn't the slam dunk they think it is.
    +1. This reminds of Cleverly actually. He seems to think the Tories issue is that they weren’t combative enough when actually the Tory Press has spent the last two years really criticising Corbyn.
    Cleverly said he cannot understand how anyone of African heritage can support the EU. Just imagine the Tory reaction if Diane Abbott had said the same thing.
    Oh yeah, I remember that comment. Tbh I find him very abrasive. The likes of Boles, Halfon understand the issues the Tories face more so than some of the other Tory MPs from the newer intakes. Halfon’s article in the Times on Young was on the money.
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,183
    RobD said:

    OchEye said:

    Interesting, so much anti-Corbyn comment on this thread, all the old stories and themes, most of which have been already dismissed as fake previously. Why, it is almost as if some are predicting an early election and want to control the conversation as they are scared that they are going to be well and truly, humped. But, no, such a thing would never happen in this forum...

    I think you may be over-analysing it.
    Nah, you can mostly tell the plants from the rest of us weeds.
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