Ssh. Nick Palmer will be along in a minute to tell you that in a party of 550,000 this is an isolated incident, does not matter and does not tell you anything about the sort of party Labour has become under Corbyn’s leadership.
Well it good to hear both sides , we had yours , so we deserve the other.
Ms Cyclefree is currently obsessed by the evil Corbyn Labour Party.
Surely we will see both of those things, with perhaps a slight modification to (2) in theory but not in practice: a hurdle so low that anyone can clear it because they come here to work or as refugees. Even most leading Brexiteers are in favour of continued immigration.
Ukip returning to previous levels doesn’t seem that unlikely to me.
Up to a point, Lord Copper. Ukip wore several hats -- anti-immigration, right-wing populism, anti-EU of course, and increasingly NOTA. These are not all the same thing, and during the referendum we saw the official Vote Leave campaign trying to get Nigel Farage to shut up about immigrants because he was alienating middle-class and ethnic minority leavers.
Although Ukip always picked up a handful of MEPs, at Westminster it was almost invisible until David Cameron excluded most backbenchers from his chumocracy and at the same time, the LibDems left the NOTA field. If May can avoid Cameron's mishandling of the party, then a Ukip revival might depend mainly on whether the LibDems maintain their current irrelevance.
UKIP are a dead parrot, but there will always be a couple of percent for a right wing BNP/NF/EDL type party. The hard right is as full of splitters as the hard left, though with even less point.
The more interesting thing is where their voters will go. The lazy assumption in the spring was that they would go Tory, but post Brexit will that breakdown even more next time? A surprising proportion moved straight to Corbynism, it is possible that more will do so.
Interesting that Liddington floated the idea of rejoining btw, albeit dressed in a fig leaf of the EU having changed.
The Telegraph headline was misleading click bait
And online has been modified from the front page:
UK Could Rejoin EU in Future, says May Deputy
to:
David Lidington interview: why Britain could join a customs union with the EU after Brexit
That's hilarious. But the cat is out of the bag now. Rejoining is back on the agenda.
Good morning all.
Rejoining has always been on the agenda. It's democracy. There's a mechanism for rejoining: article 49. I fully expect that a good chunk of the electorate will be quite keen to rejoin. If the conditions were right, I'd back rejoining.
Exactly. But if you talk about it too much it calls into question why we are going for the hardest leave option. So I suggest we talk about it more.
For UKIP to return I think we need to see at least one of these two things: 1) continued multi billion pound payments to EU 2) continuation of freedom of movement
Surely we will see both of those things, with perhaps a slight modification to (2) in theory but not in practice: a hurdle so low that anyone can clear it because they come here to work or as refugees. Even most leading Brexiteers are in favour of continued immigration.
Ukip returning to previous levels doesn’t seem that unlikely to me.
Up to a point, Lord Copper. Although Ukip always picked up a handful of MEPs, at Westminster it was almost invisible until David Cameron excluded most backbenchers from his chumocracy and at the same time, the LibDems left the NOTA field. If May can avoid Cameron's mishandling of the party, then a Ukip revival might depend mainly on whether the LibDems maintain their current irrelevance.
UKIP are a dead parrot, but there will always be a couple of percent for a right wing BNP/NF/EDL type party. The hard right is as full of splitters as the hard left, though with even less point.
The more interesting thing is where their voters will go. The lazy assumption in the spring was that they would go Tory, but post Brexit will that breakdown even more next time? A surprising proportion moved straight to Corbynism, it is possible that more will do so.
Interesting that Liddington floated the idea of rejoining btw, albeit dressed in a fig leaf of the EU having changed.
The Telegraph headline was misleading click bait
And online has been modified from the front page:
UK Could Rejoin EU in Future, says May Deputy
to:
David Lidington interview: why Britain could join a customs union with the EU after Brexit
That's hilarious. But the cat is out of the bag now. Rejoining is back on the agenda.
Good morning all.
Rejoining has always been on the agenda. It's democracy. There's a mechanism for rejoining: article 49. I fully expect that a good chunk of the electorate will be quite keen to rejoin. If the conditions were right, I'd back rejoining.
I think that Liddington is right, after Brexit the Tories can declare victory, then surreptitiously move closer to Pan-european organisations, pooling sovereignty over continent wide issues. The direction of travel to re-entry will be signposted subtly.
Unless the Tories capitulate in the Brexit talks completely and agree to keep the UK permanently in the single market and leave free movement in place there is little room for UKIP to progress. Indeed May even adopted their support for more grammar schools albeit that has not been pushed after the general election.
Sadly the best route for UKIP to have taken was to elect Anne Marie Waters rather than Henry Bolton at their last leadership election and go full Le Pen, Wilders or Freedom Party or AfD on a hardline anti radical Islam ticket which may have got them some traction in white working class areas especially in the North and Midlands. They may have been the new nasty party but they would not be the new joke party, indeed their predicament is so bad that Henry Bolton's love life appeared as a comic item on the Graham Norton show last night.
The follow ups to this tweet of the week are really quite clever, beyond even the TSE level:
Surely we will see both of those things, with perhaps a slight modification to (2) in theory but not in practice: a hurdle so low that anyone can clear it because they come here to work or as refugees. Even most leading Brexiteers are in favour of continued immigration.
Ukip returning to previous levels doesn’t seem that unlikely to me.
Up to a point, Lord Copper. Although Ukip always picked up a handful of MEPs, at Westminster it was almost invisible until David Cameron excluded most backbenchers from his chumocracy and at the same time, the LibDems left the NOTA field. If May can avoid Cameron's mishandling of the party, then a Ukip revival might depend mainly on whether the LibDems maintain their current irrelevance.
UKIP are a dead parrot, but there will always be a couple of percent for a right wing BNP/NF/EDL type party. The hard right is as full of splitters as the hard left, though with even less point.
The more interesting thing is where their voters will go. The lazy assumption in the spring was that they would go Tory, but post Brexit will that breakdown even more next time? A surprising proportion moved straight to Corbynism, it is possible that more will do so.
Interesting that Liddington floated the idea of rejoining btw, albeit dressed in a fig leaf of the EU having changed.
The Telegraph headline was misleading click bait
And online has been modified from the front page:
UK Could Rejoin EU in Future, says May Deputy
to:
David Lidington interview: why Britain could join a customs union with the EU after Brexit
That's hilarious. But the cat is out of the bag now. Rejoining is back on the agenda.
Good morning all.
Rejoining has always been on the agenda. It's democracy. There's a mechanism for rejoining: article 49. I fully expect that a good chunk of the electorate will be quite keen to rejoin. If the conditions were right, I'd back rejoining.
I think that Liddington is right, after Brexit the Tories can declare victory, then surreptitiously move closer to Pan-european organisations, pooling sovereignty over continent wide issues. The direction of travel to re-entry will be signposted subtly.
That's definitely my reading. Expect lots of wordy articles about our relationship with the EU which it is impossible to work out what the author means. We'll be creating a fudge mountain.
Ssh. Nick Palmer will be along in a minute to tell you that in a party of 550,000 this is an isolated incident, does not matter and does not tell you anything about the sort of party Labour has become under Corbyn’s leadership.
Well it good to hear both sides , we had yours , so we deserve the other.
Ms Cyclefree is currently obsessed by the evil Corbyn Labour Party.
She used to be such a good poster.
She still is and while I do not always agree with her she adds enormously to this site
Ssh. Nick Palmer will be along in a minute to tell you that in a party of 550,000 this is an isolated incident, does not matter and does not tell you anything about the sort of party Labour has become under Corbyn’s leadership.
Well it good to hear both sides , we had yours , so we deserve the other.
Ms Cyclefree is currently obsessed by the evil Corbyn Labour Party.
She used to be such a good poster.
I always thought there is an element of stockholm syndrome on this site Especially for regular posters..As it is so dominated by conservative party members.
Unless the Tories capitulate in the Brexit talks completely and agree to keep the UK permanently in the single market and leave free movement in place there is little room for UKIP to progress. Indeed May even adopted their support for more grammar schools albeit that has not been pushed after the general election.
Sadly the best route for UKIP to have taken was to elect Anne Marie Waters rather than Henry Bolton at their last leadership election and go full Le Pen, Wilders or Freedom Party or AfD on a hardline anti radical Islam ticket which may have got them some traction in white working class areas especially in the North and Midlands. They may have been the new nasty party but they would not be the new joke party, indeed their predicament is so bad that Henry Bolton's love life appeared as a comic item on the Graham Norton show last night.
The follow ups to this tweet of the week are really quite clever, beyond even the TSE level:
@haveigotnews: After Boris Johnson suggests bridge across Channel, there are concerns that his next crazy idea to encourage cooperation with France could be to establish a single market allowing the free movement of goods, services and people.
Ssh. Nick Palmer will be along in a minute to tell you that in a party of 550,000 this is an isolated incident, does not matter and does not tell you anything about the sort of party Labour has become under Corbyn’s leadership.
Well it good to hear both sides , we had yours , so we deserve the other.
Ms Cyclefree is currently obsessed by the evil Corbyn Labour Party.
She used to be such a good poster.
I always thought there is an element of stockholm syndrome on this site Especially for regular posters..As it is so dominated by conservative party members.
It isn't actually, the last poll we did on the site after the 2015 general election had Tory and Labour PBers almost exactly as numerous as Tory and Labour voters nationally but PB had more LDs and fewer UKIP voters than nationally. That is not surprising as most PBers are middle class
Macron has said that the UK could get a bespoke trade deal with the EU.
May be many underestimate TM in these negotiations. She had a very successful meeting with Macron with agreement on Calais and bi-lateral joint defence co-operation and assisting France in it's actions against ISIS in Africa. Even the idea of a fixed channel crossing was supported by Macron.
She meets Trump next week in Davos and then is to deliver a speech on joint European defence in Munich.
She seems to be liked by the EU elite so things are moving in a positive way.
I expect her to do a deal that is acceptable to the majority and then in mid to late 2019 stand down in favour of a new leader
David Lidington interview: why Britain could join a customs union with the EU after Brexit
That's hilarious. But the cat is out of the bag now. Rejoining is back on the agenda.
Good morning all.
Rejoining has always been on the agenda. It's democracy. There's a mechanism for rejoining: article 49. I fully expect that a good chunk of the electorate will be quite keen to rejoin. If the conditions were right, I'd back rejoining.
I can't see the EU ever shaking off its ultimate federal goal, and the UK leaving will allow them to put their foot down.
As you say it's democracy and if people voted to rejoin, we should do so, but I think it's more likely other countries will follow us out.
@haveigotnews: After Boris Johnson suggests bridge across Channel, there are concerns that his next crazy idea to encourage cooperation with France could be to establish a single market allowing the free movement of goods, services and people.
Thereby emulating one of his heroines, one M Thatcher.
Ssh. Nick Palmer will be along in a minute to tell you that in a party of 550,000 this is an isolated incident, does not matter and does not tell you anything about the sort of party Labour has become under Corbyn’s leadership.
Well it good to hear both sides , we had yours , so we deserve the other.
Ms Cyclefree is currently obsessed by the evil Corbyn Labour Party.
She used to be such a good poster.
I always thought there is an element of stockholm syndrome on this site Especially for regular posters..As it is so dominated by conservative party members.
It isn't actually, the last poll we did on the site after the 2015 general election had Tory and Labour PBers almost exactly as numerous as Tory and Labour voters nationally but PB had more LDs and fewer UKIP voters than nationally. That is not surprising as most PBers are middle class
Thanks HYUFD, to be fair you always IMO try to give a fair assessment of both main parties future prospects going forward.Which currently is difficult.
Surely we will see both of those things, with perhaps a slight modification to (2) in theory but not in practice: a hurdle so low that anyone can clear it because they come here to work or as refugees. Even most leading Brexiteers are in favour of continued immigration.
Ukip returning to previous levels doesn’t seem that unlikely to me.
Up to a point, Lord Copper. Although Ukip always picked up a handful of MEPs, at Westminster it was almost invisible until David Cameron excluded most backbenchers from his chumocracy and at the same time, the LibDems left the NOTA field. If May can avoid Cameron's mishandling of the party, then a Ukip revival might depend mainly on whether the LibDems maintain their current irrelevance.
snip
Interesting that Liddington floated the idea of rejoining btw, albeit dressed in a fig leaf of the EU having changed.
The Telegraph headline was misleading click bait
And online has been modified from the front page:
UK Could Rejoin EU in Future, says May Deputy
to:
David Lidington interview: why Britain could join a customs union with the EU after Brexit
That's hilarious. But the cat is out of the bag now. Rejoining is back on the agenda.
Good morning all.
Rejoining has always been on the agenda. It's democracy. There's a mechanism for rejoining: article 49. I fully expect that a good chunk of the electorate will be quite keen to rejoin. If the conditions were right, I'd back rejoining.
I think that Liddington is right, after Brexit the Tories can declare victory, then surreptitiously move closer to Pan-european organisations, pooling sovereignty over continent wide issues. The direction of travel to re-entry will be signposted subtly.
That's definitely my reading. Expect lots of wordy articles about our relationship with the EU which it is impossible to work out what the author means. We'll be creating a fudge mountain.
and also fail to deal with any of the economic issues that led many people to express their rage and vote 'Leave'.
Macron has said that the UK could get a bespoke trade deal with the EU.
Now isn't that interesting?
Full interview on Marr tommorow I think, but Macron is a great example of French suave diplomacy.
It is Theresa's red lines that are setting the parameters of the Deal. We are perfectly capable of softening the Deal, if we so choose. Barnier has always made that clear.
Ssh. Nick Palmer will be along in a minute to tell you that in a party of 550,000 this is an isolated incident, does not matter and does not tell you anything about the sort of party Labour has become under Corbyn’s leadership.
Well it good to hear both sides , we had yours , so we deserve the other.
Ms Cyclefree is currently obsessed by the evil Corbyn Labour Party.
She used to be such a good poster.
I always thought there is an element of stockholm syndrome on this site Especially for regular posters..As it is so dominated by conservative party members.
It isn't actually, the last poll we did on the site after the 2015 general election had Tory and Labour PBers almost exactly as numerous as Tory and Labour voters nationally but PB had more LDs and fewer UKIP voters than nationally. That is not surprising as most PBers are middle class
Thanks HYUFD, to be fair you always IMO try to give a fair assessment of both main parties future prospects going forward.Which currently is difficult.
David Lidington interview: why Britain could join a customs union with the EU after Brexit
That's hilarious. But the cat is out of the bag now. Rejoining is back on the agenda.
Good morning all.
Rejoining has always been on the agenda. It's democracy. There's a mechanism for rejoining: article 49. I fully expect that a good chunk of the electorate will be quite keen to rejoin. If the conditions were right, I'd back rejoining.
I can't see the EU ever shaking off its ultimate federal goal, and the UK leaving will allow them to put their foot down.
As you say it's democracy and if people voted to rejoin, we should do so, but I think it's more likely other countries will follow us out.
I tend to agree with the idea we will grow closer to the EU over time and consider re--joining which of course is a comfort blanket to remainers, but we are going to leave and the process of re-joining will take a decade or more, if at all
Macron has said that the UK could get a bespoke trade deal with the EU.
May be many underestimate TM in these negotiations. She had a very successful meeting with Macron with agreement on Calais and bi-lateral joint defence co-operation and assisting France in it's actions against ISIS in Africa. Even the idea of a fixed channel crossing was supported by Macron.
She meets Trump next week in Davos and then is to deliver a speech on joint European defence in Munich.
She seems to be liked by the EU elite so things are moving in a positive way.
I expect her to do a deal that is acceptable to the majority and then in mid to late 2019 stand down in favour of a new leader
Macron has said we cannot get full single market access given we want to end free movement, ECJ jurisdiction and reduce our payments to the EU. However, yes interestingly he has said we may be able to get a bespoke deal between full single market membership and a Canada style FTA which would largely be focused on goods only
Macron has said that the UK could get a bespoke trade deal with the EU.
May be many underestimate TM in these negotiations. She had a very successful meeting with Macron with agreement on Calais and bi-lateral joint defence co-operation and assisting France in it's actions against ISIS in Africa. Even the idea of a fixed channel crossing was supported by Macron.
She meets Trump next week in Davos and then is to deliver a speech on joint European defence in Munich.
She seems to be liked by the EU elite so things are moving in a positive way.
I expect her to do a deal that is acceptable to the majority and then in mid to late 2019 stand down in favour of a new leader
The EU elite might have decided that any other Tory leader except Hammond would be worse. It presumably appreciates too that Corbyn/McDonnell are delighted for the Tory 'hard right' to drive the course of events and continue the Labour left's unfinished business from 1975-1983, i.e. leave the 'capitalist club'.
The SNP must be absolutely delighted their mundane, run of the mill Facebook ad is now front page on various papers including the Scotsman.
Cheapest publicity ever.
I would like to think that the good people of Edinburgh Western might now have sufficient cause to regret their decision, but I fear not.
It's now had over 200k views in the last 36 hours - I think it shows that with newspaper sales continuing to fall off dramatically that social media will become an ever increasingly important election battleground.
Aye, nowadays newspapers often seems the fluffer for the major event on alternative medias, a role which the Scotsman is fulfilling admirably in this case.
Even I agree with the sentiments but Brexit is the dominant issue and TM will be consumed with ot all year
Agreed , to be honest T May has a difficult job with Brexit and I really hope it works out well.
I think that is the mood in the Country but there are those who would like our Country to crash and burn to prove their obsession with the EU and that is sad
Just seen the text of the tax question asked by YouGov about the SNP plans:
It was "Last month the Scottish government announced changes to income tax. The effect of the change will be that compared to people in England and Wales taxpayers earning less than £26,000 will pay less tax, and those earning more than £26,000 will pay more tax. From what you have seen or heard, do you support or oppose these changes to income tax in Scotland?"
Even with that phrasing only 27% of people were opposed.
Compared to 99% of the right wing fruitcakes on here
Macron has said that the UK could get a bespoke trade deal with the EU.
May be many underestimate TM in these negotiations. She had a very successful meeting with Macron with agreement on Calais and bi-lateral joint defence co-operation and assisting France in it's actions against ISIS in Africa. Even the idea of a fixed channel crossing was supported by Macron.
She meets Trump next week in Davos and then is to deliver a speech on joint European defence in Munich.
She seems to be liked by the EU elite so things are moving in a positive way.
I expect her to do a deal that is acceptable to the majority and then in mid to late 2019 stand down in favour of a new leader
Yep - we’re heading for a symbolic Brexit. Nods to the May red lines to spare her blushes, but pretty much as things are in reality. All we’ll have done is waste a lot of time and money, shaved a few points off GDP and diminished our soft power. Most will be fine with that. But those who aren’t will feel betrayed and will not be quiet about it.
It is instructive to compare the influence that a third party has on policy in the UK under FPTP with Germany under modified PR.
UKIP’s share of the vote in 2010 was just 3.1% and it took no seats. Nevertheless it forced David Cameron’s hand to promise a referendum in the Conservative manifesto for the 2015 general election in which UKIP took 12.6% of the vote but just the Carswell seat in Parliament. Since then we have had the seismic Brexit referendum.
Compare that with the AfD in Germany, which achieved 4.7% in 2013 but, falling short of the 5% threshold, got no seats in the Bundestag. Then in 2017 the AfD coincidentally also got 12.6% of the vote, yielding 94 seats in the Bundestag. So much greater representation than UKIP in the UK for the same share of the vote.
However, though the horse-trading between the CDU and the SPD is not yet resolved, it is clear that the AfD’s policy agenda is nowhere near what will emerge if there is a grand coalition, and still less so if the “Jamaica” outcome with the CDU, Greens and the FDP is resurrected.
Whereas UKIP has essentially achieved its goal under FPTP in the UK, in Germany under PR the AfD has been contained as a side show.
The SNP must be absolutely delighted their mundane, run of the mill Facebook ad is now front page on various papers including the Scotsman.
Cheapest publicity ever.
I thought it would be impossible to find a bigger numpty than Labour's Kelly after his performance this week but up pops the Lib Dumb Cole-Hamilton to prove me wrong
Even I agree with the sentiments but Brexit is the dominant issue and TM will be consumed with ot all year
Agreed , to be honest T May has a difficult job with Brexit and I really hope it works out well.
I think that is the mood in the Country but there are those who would like our Country to crash and burn to prove their obsession with the EU and that is sad
BigG we are in agreement For all its faults , I have been privileged to live in this country and this lovely city.
Mr. W, I posted the other day that I saw a graph (forgot to note the link, alas) on Twitter indicating every party in Germany, excepting the AfD, were to the left of median popular opinion. If accurate, that's quite significant.
Ssh. Nick Palmer will be along in a minute to tell you that in a party of 550,000 this is an isolated incident, does not matter and does not tell you anything about the sort of party Labour has become under Corbyn’s leadership.
Well it good to hear both sides , we had yours , so we deserve the other.
Ms Cyclefree is currently obsessed by the evil Corbyn Labour Party.
She used to be such a good poster.
I always thought there is an element of stockholm syndrome on this site Especially for regular posters..As it is so dominated by conservative party members.
well heeled extreme right wing Tory party members at that.
Macron has said that the UK could get a bespoke trade deal with the EU.
May be many underestimate TM in these negotiations. She had a very successful meeting with Macron with agreement on Calais and bi-lateral joint defence co-operation and assisting France in it's actions against ISIS in Africa. Even the idea of a fixed channel crossing was supported by Macron.
She meets Trump next week in Davos and then is to deliver a speech on joint European defence in Munich.
She seems to be liked by the EU elite so things are moving in a positive way.
I expect her to do a deal that is acceptable to the majority and then in mid to late 2019 stand down in favour of a new leader
Yep - we’re heading for a symbolic Brexit. Nods to the May red lines to spare her blushes, but pretty much as things are in reality. All we’ll have done is waste a lot of time and money, shaved a few points off GDP and diminished our soft power. Most will be fine with that. But those who aren’t will feel betrayed and will not be quiet about it.
David Lidington interview: why Britain could join a customs union with the EU after Brexit
That's hilarious. But the cat is out of the bag now. Rejoining is back on the agenda.
Good morning all.
Rejoining has always been on the agenda. It's democracy. There's a mechanism for rejoining: article 49. I fully expect that a good chunk of the electorate will be quite keen to rejoin. If the conditions were right, I'd back rejoining.
David Lidington interview: why Britain could join a customs union with the EU after Brexit
That's hilarious. But the cat is out of the bag now. Rejoining is back on the agenda.
Good morning all.
Rejoining has always been on the agenda. It's democracy. There's a mechanism for rejoining: article 49. I fully expect that a good chunk of the electorate will be quite keen to rejoin. If the conditions were right, I'd back rejoining.
I can't see the EU ever shaking off its ultimate federal goal, and the UK leaving will allow them to put their foot down.
As you say it's democracy and if people voted to rejoin, we should do so, but I think it's more likely other countries will follow us out.
I'm a terrible forecaster, but I think we'll actually see a two-speed Europe at some point. There are a number of countries playing silly sods with the ERM component of the convergence criteria.
That can't go on forever; as the Eurozone countries stand up more of the necessary elements of a currency union, it'll either pull countries in, or cause some kind of recognition that full monetary union (with all that entails) isn't what the various electorates want.
Where I do disagree is that our cooperation will somehow be underhand; we've seen how that works, so let's not repeat the mistakes. I would be delighted if we were members of Euratom and Erasmus+ and so on. As long as we're outside the treaty frameworks (Rome, Maastricht, Amsterdam, Nice, Lisbon et al), even a European Defence Force would be palatable.
Macron has said that the UK could get a bespoke trade deal with the EU.
May be many underestimate TM in these negotiations. She had a very successful meeting with Macron with agreement on Calais and bi-lateral joint defence co-operation and assisting France in it's actions against ISIS in Africa. Even the idea of a fixed channel crossing was supported by Macron.
She meets Trump next week in Davos and then is to deliver a speech on joint European defence in Munich.
She seems to be liked by the EU elite so things are moving in a positive way.
I expect her to do a deal that is acceptable to the majority and then in mid to late 2019 stand down in favour of a new leader
Big G , you sound like you are taken in as easily as Theresa. Remember her great meeting with Trump , and all her other successes. Correct they are making a cod of her and she has no clue. France will give her nothing for nothing , just look at us stumping up to fund the illegal immigrants in Calais, WTF is that all about.
Macron has said that the UK could get a bespoke trade deal with the EU.
May be many underestimate TM in these negotiations. She had a very successful meeting with Macron with agreement on Calais and bi-lateral joint defence co-operation and assisting France in it's actions against ISIS in Africa. Even the idea of a fixed channel crossing was supported by Macron.
She meets Trump next week in Davos and then is to deliver a speech on joint European defence in Munich.
She seems to be liked by the EU elite so things are moving in a positive way.
I expect her to do a deal that is acceptable to the majority and then in mid to late 2019 stand down in favour of a new leader
As I have pointed out before, the lost majority in June has allowed May to tell Europe "if you don't play ball with me, there's my replacement Boris, hovering in the wings...." That seems to concentrate their minds!
Even I agree with the sentiments but Brexit is the dominant issue and TM will be consumed with ot all year
Agreed , to be honest T May has a difficult job with Brexit and I really hope it works out well.
I think that is the mood in the Country but there are those who would like our Country to crash and burn to prove their obsession with the EU and that is sad
BigG we are in agreement For all its faults , I have been privileged to live in this country and this lovely city.
York is a wonderful city with it's Minster and jewel in the crown, the National Railway Museum.
We love having breaks in York and off course Yorkshire.
We live in a wonderful Country that we can all be proud off, warts and all
Macron has said that the UK could get a bespoke trade deal with the EU.
May be many underestimate TM in these negotiations. She had a very successful meeting with Macron with agreement on Calais and bi-lateral joint defence co-operation and assisting France in it's actions against ISIS in Africa. Even the idea of a fixed channel crossing was supported by Macron.
She meets Trump next week in Davos and then is to deliver a speech on joint European defence in Munich.
She seems to be liked by the EU elite so things are moving in a positive way.
I expect her to do a deal that is acceptable to the majority and then in mid to late 2019 stand down in favour of a new leader
Big G , you sound like you are taken in as easily as Theresa. Remember her great meeting with Trump , and all her other successes. Correct they are making a cod of her and she has no clue. France will give her nothing for nothing , just look at us stumping up to fund the illegal immigrants in Calais, WTF is that all about.
We’ll get what the EU decides we can have. Same with any other trade agreement with a major market: the terms will be dictated from the other side of the table.
Macron has said that the UK could get a bespoke trade deal with the EU.
May be many underestimate TM in these negotiations. She had a very successful meeting with Macron with agreement on Calais and bi-lateral joint defence co-operation and assisting France in it's actions against ISIS in Africa. Even the idea of a fixed channel crossing was supported by Macron.
She meets Trump next week in Davos and then is to deliver a speech on joint European defence in Munich.
She seems to be liked by the EU elite so things are moving in a positive way.
I expect her to do a deal that is acceptable to the majority and then in mid to late 2019 stand down in favour of a new leader
Yep - we’re heading for a symbolic Brexit. Nods to the May red lines to spare her blushes, but pretty much as things are in reality. All we’ll have done is waste a lot of time and money, shaved a few points off GDP and diminished our soft power. Most will be fine with that. But those who aren’t will feel betrayed and will not be quiet about it.
There you go again.
We've listened to the people about our place in Europe for the first time since the early 90s. That is significant.
Macron has said that the UK could get a bespoke trade deal with the EU.
May be many underestimate TM in these negotiations. She had a very successful meeting with Macron with agreement on Calais and bi-lateral joint defence co-operation and assisting France in it's actions against ISIS in Africa. Even the idea of a fixed channel crossing was supported by Macron.
She meets Trump next week in Davos and then is to deliver a speech on joint European defence in Munich.
She seems to be liked by the EU elite so things are moving in a positive way.
I expect her to do a deal that is acceptable to the majority and then in mid to late 2019 stand down in favour of a new leader
Yep - we’re heading for a symbolic Brexit. Nods to the May red lines to spare her blushes, but pretty much as things are in reality. All we’ll have done is waste a lot of time and money, shaved a few points off GDP and diminished our soft power. Most will be fine with that. But those who aren’t will feel betrayed and will not be quiet about it.
I have said right from the beginning that the Tories will sell out , get a pig in the poke , slapon the lipstick and we will pay more money for a crap deal and lose any influence we ever had but have to pick up any bills they throw our way.
Macron has said that the UK could get a bespoke trade deal with the EU.
May be many underestimate TM in these negotiations. She had a very successful meeting with Macron with agreement on Calais and bi-lateral joint defence co-operation and assisting France in it's actions against ISIS in Africa. Even the idea of a fixed channel crossing was supported by Macron.
She meets Trump next week in Davos and then is to deliver a speech on joint European defence in Munich.
She seems to be liked by the EU elite so things are moving in a positive way.
I expect her to do a deal that is acceptable to the majority and then in mid to late 2019 stand down in favour of a new leader
Big G , you sound like you are taken in as easily as Theresa. Remember her great meeting with Trump , and all her other successes. Correct they are making a cod of her and she has no clue. France will give her nothing for nothing , just look at us stumping up to fund the illegal immigrants in Calais, WTF is that all about.
We’ll get what the EU decides we can have. Same with any other trade agreement with a major market: the terms will be dictated from the other side of the table.
Given we're the bigger market in goods for the EU, there might well be more than you think.
Ssh. Nick Palmer will be along in a minute to tell you that in a party of 550,000 this is an isolated incident, does not matter and does not tell you anything about the sort of party Labour has become under Corbyn’s leadership.
Well it good to hear both sides , we had yours , so we deserve the other.
Ms Cyclefree is currently obsessed by the evil Corbyn Labour Party.
She used to be such a good poster.
I always thought there is an element of stockholm syndrome on this site Especially for regular posters..As it is so dominated by conservative party members.
well heeled extreme right wing Tory party members at that.
Morning Malc - I am definitely not one of those, just an ordinary pensioner, but am a conservative party member
Just seen the text of the tax question asked by YouGov about the SNP plans:
It was "Last month the Scottish government announced changes to income tax. The effect of the change will be that compared to people in England and Wales taxpayers earning less than £26,000 will pay less tax, and those earning more than £26,000 will pay more tax. From what you have seen or heard, do you support or oppose these changes to income tax in Scotland?"
Even with that phrasing only 27% of people were opposed.
Compared to 99% of the right wing fruitcakes on here
Presumably given those figures a substantial proportion of those earning over 26k are in favour of the changes.
Difficult to achieve a half way house between Canada and Norway, I think. They are different beasts and there is no continuum between the two. Norway isn't Canada with more of everything. Preferential Trade Agreements are inflexible so I wouldn't put a lot of hope in a Canada Plus. Maybe more potential with a Norway Minus, but if you have signed up to someone else's system with all that entails, why would you want a "minus"?
David Lidington doesn't understand what a customs union is, when he talks about a "sort of customs union". He's not alone, but as a man in charge and a Remainer who should be more interested in this stuff, it's maybe concerning. A customs union is a common tariff on all goods and is recognised as such by the WTO. There's not a lot to discuss. You just agree and implement it. The Turkish-EU CU excludes agriculture and is non-compliant by WTO rules (originally GATT the CU dates back to the 60's). If we have a CU with the EU it will include agriculture. A customs union is only concerned with tariffs. Regulatory alignment strictly is outside the scope. Pretty much the only reason for the UK NOT to be in a customs union with the EU is to be able to apply a lower tariff on citrus fruits, as we don't have a citrus industry to protect.
Macron has said that the UK could get a bespoke trade deal with the EU.
May be many underestimate TM in these negotiations. She had a very successful meeting with Macron with agreement on Calais and bi-lateral joint defence co-operation and assisting France in it's actions against ISIS in Africa. Even the idea of a fixed channel crossing was supported by Macron.
She meets Trump next week in Davos and then is to deliver a speech on joint European defence in Munich.
She seems to be liked by the EU elite so things are moving in a positive way.
I expect her to do a deal that is acceptable to the majority and then in mid to late 2019 stand down in favour of a new leader
Big G , you sound like you are taken in as easily as Theresa. Remember her great meeting with Trump , and all her other successes. Correct they are making a cod of her and she has no clue. France will give her nothing for nothing , just look at us stumping up to fund the illegal immigrants in Calais, WTF is that all about.
We’ll get what the EU decides we can have. Same with any other trade agreement with a major market: the terms will be dictated from the other side of the table.
Mr. W, I posted the other day that I saw a graph (forgot to note the link, alas) on Twitter indicating every party in Germany, excepting the AfD, were to the left of median popular opinion. If accurate, that's quite significant.
That could also be true here. I would guess that Labour, LibDems, SNP, Plaid and SF are to the left of median popular opinion, and possibly the Conservatives too. Just UKIP and the DUP to the right I would say.
Macron has said that the UK could get a bespoke trade deal with the EU.
May be many underestimate TM in these negotiations. She had a very successful meeting with Macron with agreement on Calais and bi-lateral joint defence co-operation and assisting France in it's actions against ISIS in Africa. Even the idea of a fixed channel crossing was supported by Macron.
She meets Trump next week in Davos and then is to deliver a speech on joint European defence in Munich.
She seems to be liked by the EU elite so things are moving in a positive way.
I expect her to do a deal that is acceptable to the majority and then in mid to late 2019 stand down in favour of a new leader
Yep - we’re heading for a symbolic Brexit. Nods to the May red lines to spare her blushes, but pretty much as things are in reality. All we’ll have done is waste a lot of time and money, shaved a few points off GDP and diminished our soft power. Most will be fine with that. But those who aren’t will feel betrayed and will not be quiet about it.
There you go again.
We've listened to the people about our place in Europe for the first time since the early 90s. That is significant.
For sure. We’re leaving. Not much will change, but we’ll no longer be an EU member state.
Macron has said that the UK could get a bespoke trade deal with the EU.
May be many underestimate TM in these negotiations. She had a very successful meeting with Macron with agreement on Calais and bi-lateral joint defence co-operation and assisting France in it's actions against ISIS in Africa. Even the idea of a fixed channel crossing was supported by Macron.
She meets Trump next week in Davos and then is to deliver a speech on joint European defence in Munich.
She seems to be liked by the EU elite so things are moving in a positive way.
I expect her to do a deal that is acceptable to the majority and then in mid to late 2019 stand down in favour of a new leader
Yep - we’re heading for a symbolic Brexit. Nods to the May red lines to spare her blushes, but pretty much as things are in reality. All we’ll have done is waste a lot of time and money, shaved a few points off GDP and diminished our soft power. Most will be fine with that. But those who aren’t will feel betrayed and will not be quiet about it.
There you go again.
We've listened to the people about our place in Europe for the first time since the early 90s. That is significant.
Too many people on here underestimate the importance of that. How often do those of us pavement-pounders out door-knocking hear "You're all the same, you lot. Just in it for yourselves. Never listen to us folk...."
Just seen the text of the tax question asked by YouGov about the SNP plans:
It was "Last month the Scottish government announced changes to income tax. The effect of the change will be that compared to people in England and Wales taxpayers earning less than £26,000 will pay less tax, and those earning more than £26,000 will pay more tax. From what you have seen or heard, do you support or oppose these changes to income tax in Scotland?"
Even with that phrasing only 27% of people were opposed.
Compared to 99% of the right wing fruitcakes on here
Presumably given those figures a substantial proportion of those earning over 26k are in favour of the changes.
I would tend to say they accept it for better public services. I don't like it but do realise I am very lucky to be paying the extra so just have to suck it up, it is not impacting my life for sure. I used to have to pay more for regular prescriptions.
Mr. W, I posted the other day that I saw a graph (forgot to note the link, alas) on Twitter indicating every party in Germany, excepting the AfD, were to the left of median popular opinion. If accurate, that's quite significant.
That could also be true here. I would guess that Labour, LibDems, SNP, Plaid and SF are to the left of median popular opinion, and possibly the Conservatives too. Just UKIP and the DUP to the right I would say.
Not on economics, on immigration and law and order maybe
Macron has said that the UK could get a bespoke trade deal with the EU.
May be many underestimate TM in these negotiations. She had a very successful meeting with Macron with agreement on Calais and bi-lateral joint defence co-operation and assisting France in it's actions against ISIS in Africa. Even the idea of a fixed channel crossing was supported by Macron.
She meets Trump next week in Davos and then is to deliver a speech on joint European defence in Munich.
She seems to be liked by the EU elite so things are moving in a positive way.
I expect her to do a deal that is acceptable to the majority and then in mid to late 2019 stand down in favour of a new leader
Big G , you sound like you are taken in as easily as Theresa. Remember her great meeting with Trump , and all her other successes. Correct they are making a cod of her and she has no clue. France will give her nothing for nothing , just look at us stumping up to fund the illegal immigrants in Calais, WTF is that all about.
We’ll get what the EU decides we can have. Same with any other trade agreement with a major market: the terms will be dictated from the other side of the table.
Given we're the bigger market in goods for the EU, there might well be more than you think.
Ssh. Nick Palmer will be along in a minute to tell you that in a party of 550,000 this is an isolated incident, does not matter and does not tell you anything about the sort of party Labour has become under Corbyn’s leadership.
Well it good to hear both sides , we had yours , so we deserve the other.
Ms Cyclefree is currently obsessed by the evil Corbyn Labour Party.
She used to be such a good poster.
I always thought there is an element of stockholm syndrome on this site Especially for regular posters..As it is so dominated by conservative party members.
well heeled extreme right wing Tory party members at that.
Morning Malc - I am definitely not one of those, just an ordinary pensioner, but am a conservative party member
Morning Big G , I had not included you in there, but there are many others who fit the brief.
Macron has said that the UK could get a bespoke trade deal with the EU.
May be many underestimate TM in these negotiations. She had a very successful meeting with Macron with agreement on Calais and bi-lateral joint defence co-operation and assisting France in it's actions against ISIS in Africa. Even the idea of a fixed channel crossing was supported by Macron.
She meets Trump next week in Davos and then is to deliver a speech on joint European defence in Munich.
She seems to be liked by the EU elite so things are moving in a positive way.
I expect her to do a deal that is acceptable to the majority and then in mid to late 2019 stand down in favour of a new leader
Yep - we’re heading for a symbolic Brexit. Nods to the May red lines to spare her blushes, but pretty much as things are in reality. All we’ll have done is waste a lot of time and money, shaved a few points off GDP and diminished our soft power. Most will be fine with that. But those who aren’t will feel betrayed and will not be quiet about it.
There you go again.
We've listened to the people about our place in Europe for the first time since the early 90s. That is significant.
Too many people on here underestimate the importance of that. How often do those of us pavement-pounders out door-knocking hear "You're all the same, you lot. Just in it for yourselves. Never listen to us folk...."
Macron has said that the UK could get a bespoke trade deal with the EU.
May be many underestimate TM in these negotiations. She had a very successful meeting with Macron with agreement on Calais and bi-lateral joint defence co-operation and assisting France in it's actions against ISIS in Africa. Even the idea of a fixed channel crossing was supported by Macron.
She meets Trump next week in Davos and then is to deliver a speech on joint European defence in Munich.
She seems to be liked by the EU elite so things are moving in a positive way.
I expect her to do a deal that is acceptable to the majority and then in mid to late 2019 stand down in favour of a new leader
Big G , you sound like you are taken in as easily as Theresa. Remember her great meeting with Trump , and all her other successes. Correct they are making a cod of her and she has no clue. France will give her nothing for nothing , just look at us stumping up to fund the illegal immigrants in Calais, WTF is that all about.
We’ll get what the EU decides we can have. Same with any other trade agreement with a major market: the terms will be dictated from the other side of the table.
Given we're the bigger market in goods for the EU, there might well be more than you think.
Macron has said that the UK could get a bespoke trade deal with the EU.
May be many underestimate TM in these negotiations. She had a very successful meeting with Macron with agreement on Calais and bi-lateral joint defence co-operation and assisting France in it's actions against ISIS in Africa. Even the idea of a fixed channel crossing was supported by Macron.
She meets Trump next week in Davos and then is to deliver a speech on joint European defence in Munich.
She seems to be liked by the EU elite so things are moving in a positive way.
I expect her to do a deal that is acceptable to the majority and then in mid to late 2019 stand down in favour of a new leader
Yep - we’re heading for a symbolic Brexit. Nods to the May red lines to spare her blushes, but pretty much as things are in reality. All we’ll have done is waste a lot of time and money, shaved a few points off GDP and diminished our soft power. Most will be fine with that. But those who aren’t will feel betrayed and will not be quiet about it.
There you go again.
We've listened to the people about our place in Europe for the first time since the early 90s. That is significant.
Too many people on here underestimate the importance of that. How often do those of us pavement-pounders out door-knocking hear "You're all the same, you lot. Just in it for yourselves. Never listen to us folk...."
Well, now we've listened.
Yes, these are the same people who turned out for Corbyn, undeniably not an average bland politician.
Ssh. Nick Palmer will be along in a minute to tell you that in a party of 550,000 this is an isolated incident, does not matter and does not tell you anything about the sort of party Labour has become under Corbyn’s leadership.
Well it good to hear both sides , we had yours , so we deserve the other.
Ms Cyclefree is currently obsessed by the evil Corbyn Labour Party.
She used to be such a good poster.
I always thought there is an element of stockholm syndrome on this site Especially for regular posters..As it is so dominated by conservative party members.
well heeled extreme right wing Tory party members at that.
Morning Malc - I am definitely not one of those, just an ordinary pensioner, but am a conservative party member
Morning Big G , I had not included you in there, but there are many others who fit the brief.
Thanks Malc. Looking forward to two trips to our family in the North East this year.
Macron has said that the UK could get a bespoke trade deal with the EU.
May be many underestimate TM in these negotiations. She had a very successful meeting with Macron with agreement on Calais and bi-lateral joint defence co-operation and assisting France in it's actions against ISIS in Africa. Even the idea of a fixed channel crossing was supported by Macron.
She meets Trump next week in Davos and then is to deliver a speech on joint European defence in Munich.
She seems to be liked by the EU elite so things are moving in a positive way.
I expect her to do a deal that is acceptable to the majority and then in mid to late 2019 stand down in favour of a new leader
Big G , you sound like you are taken in as easily as Theresa. Remember her great meeting with Trump , and all her other successes. Correct they are making a cod of her and she has no clue. France will give her nothing for nothing , just look at us stumping up to fund the illegal immigrants in Calais, WTF is that all about.
We’ll get what the EU decides we can have. Same with any other trade agreement with a major market: the terms will be dictated from the other side of the table.
Given we're the bigger market in goods for the EU, there might well be more than you think.
The EU is 27 individual countries.
That news might shock some in Brussels!
It might. But it’s what makes the EU’s negotiating position so strong. No country, not even Ireland, is as harmed as much as the UK by a no deal Brexit.
Even I agree with the sentiments but Brexit is the dominant issue and TM will be consumed with ot all year
Agreed , to be honest T May has a difficult job with Brexit and I really hope it works out well.
I think that is the mood in the Country but there are those who would like our Country to crash and burn to prove their obsession with the EU and that is sad
BigG we are in agreement For all its faults , I have been privileged to live in this country and this lovely city.
York is a wonderful city with it's Minster and jewel in the crown, the National Railway Museum.
We love having breaks in York and off course Yorkshire.
We live in a wonderful Country that we can all be proud off, warts and all
I love York too.The Ebor meeting was an old regular for me and for anyone with a bit of Yorkshire in their blood, and it was where I first took LSD in 1972 or rather where I ended up-long story!.So many homeless people now out sleeping on the streets in York last time I went,and in every other town and city.This disturbs me a great deal.
Macron has said that the UK could get a bespoke trade deal with the EU.
May be many underestimate TM in these negotiations. She had a very successful meeting with Macron with agreement on Calais and bi-lateral joint defence co-operation and assisting France in it's actions against ISIS in Africa. Even the idea of a fixed channel crossing was supported by Macron.
She meets Trump next week in Davos and then is to deliver a speech on joint European defence in Munich.
She seems to be liked by the EU elite so things are moving in a positive way.
I expect her to do a deal that is acceptable to the majority and then in mid to late 2019 stand down in favour of a new leader
Big G , you sound like you are taken in as easily as Theresa. Remember her great meeting with Trump , and all her other successes. Correct they are making a cod of her and she has no clue. France will give her nothing for nothing , just look at us stumping up to fund the illegal immigrants in Calais, WTF is that all about.
We’ll get what the EU decides we can have. Same with any other trade agreement with a major market: the terms will be dictated from the other side of the table.
Given we're the bigger market in goods for the EU, there might well be more than you think.
Macron has said that the UK could get a bespoke trade deal with the EU.
May be many underestimate TM in these negotiations. She had a very successful meeting with Macron with agreement on Calais and bi-lateral joint defence co-operation and assisting France in it's actions against ISIS in Africa. Even the idea of a fixed channel crossing was supported by Macron.
She meets Trump next week in Davos and then is to deliver a speech on joint European defence in Munich.
She seems to be liked by the EU elite so things are moving in a positive way.
I expect her to do a deal that is acceptable to the majority and then in mid to late 2019 stand down in favour of a new leader
Yep - we’re heading for a symbolic Brexit. Nods to the May red lines to spare her blushes, but pretty much as things are in reality. All we’ll have done is waste a lot of time and money, shaved a few points off GDP and diminished our soft power. Most will be fine with that. But those who aren’t will feel betrayed and will not be quiet about it.
There you go again.
We've listened to the people about our place in Europe for the first time since the early 90s. That is significant.
For sure. We’re leaving. Not much will change, but we’ll no longer be an EU member state.
May realised that it would take more than Brexit to deal with public concerns, hence her speech on assuming office. Sadly she appears devoid of both the ideas and the influence to make any progress.
Even I agree with the sentiments but Brexit is the dominant issue and TM will be consumed with ot all year
Agreed , to be honest T May has a difficult job with Brexit and I really hope it works out well.
I think that is the mood in the Country but there are those who would like our Country to crash and burn to prove their obsession with the EU and that is sad
BigG we are in agreement For all its faults , I have been privileged to live in this country and this lovely city.
York is a wonderful city with it's Minster and jewel in the crown, the National Railway Museum.
We love having breaks in York and off course Yorkshire.
We live in a wonderful Country that we can all be proud off, warts and all
I love York too.The Ebor meeting was an old regular for me and for anyone with a bit of Yorkshire in their blood, and it was where I first took LSD in 1972 or rather where I ended up-long story!.So many homeless people now out sleeping on the streets in York last time I went,and in every other town and city.This disturbs me a great deal.
When I was in Vancouver last year they have a real crisis in homeless people. It is not just the UK that is experiencing this serious problem
Macron cares far more about establishing himself as the new leader of Europe than he does about conforming to a united Franco-German front over Brexit under the umbrella of Merkel's rhetoric of "no cherry picking". He also doesn't have the baggage that she does over Cameron's failed renegotiation too.
For decades, France has played second fiddle to Germany within the EU's main power axis. Now, he wants to reverse it, and if leading the forging of a new deal with the UK helps him do so, he will, and take credit for it.
Macron has said that the UK could get a bespoke trade deal with the EU.
May be many underestimate TM in these negotiations. She had a very successful meeting with Macron with agreement on Calais and bi-lateral joint defence co-operation and assisting France in it's actions against ISIS in Africa. Even the idea of a fixed channel crossing was supported by Macron.
She meets Trump next week in Davos and then is to deliver a speech on joint European defence in Munich.
She seems to be liked by the EU elite so things are moving in a positive way.
I expect her to do a deal that is acceptable to the majority and then in mid to late 2019 stand down in favour of a new leader
Yep - we’re heading for a symbolic Brexit. Nods to the May red lines to spare her blushes, but pretty much as things are in reality. All we’ll have done is waste a lot of time and money, shaved a few points off GDP and diminished our soft power. Most will be fine with that. But those who aren’t will feel betrayed and will not be quiet about it.
There you go again.
We've listened to the people about our place in Europe for the first time since the early 90s. That is significant.
For sure. We’re leaving. Not much will change, but we’ll no longer be an EU member state.
May realised that it would take more than Brexit to deal with public concerns, hence her speech on assuming office. Sadly she appears devoid of both the ideas and the influence to make any progress.
On Brexit she is making progress and that dominates everything at present
I always thought there is an element of stockholm syndrome on this site Especially for regular posters..As it is so dominated by conservative party members.
For UKIP to return I think we need to see at least one of these two things: 1) continued multi billion pound payments to EU 2) continuation of freedom of movement
Surely we will see both of those things, with perhaps a slight modification to (2) in theory but not in practice: a hurdle so low that anyone can clear it because they come here to work or as refugees. Even most leading Brexiteers are in favour of continued immigration.
Ukip returning to previous levels doesn’t seem that unlikely to me.
Although Ukip always picked up a handful of MEPs, at Westminster it was almost invisible until David Cameron excluded most backbenchers from his chumocracy and at the same time, the LibDems left the NOTA field. If May can avoid Cameron's mishandling of the party, then a Ukip revival might depend mainly on whether the LibDems maintain their current irrelevance.
UKIP are a dead parrot, but there will always be a couple of percent for a right wing BNP/NF/EDL type party. The hard right is as full of splitters as the hard left, though with even less point.
The more interesting thing is where their voters will go. The lazy assumption in the spring was that they would go Tory, but post Brexit will that breakdown even more next time? A surprising proportion moved straight to Corbynism, it is possible that more will do so.
Interesting that Liddington floated the idea of rejoining btw, albeit dressed in a fig leaf of the EU having changed.
The Telegraph headline was misleading click bait
And online has been modified from the front page:
UK Could Rejoin EU in Future, says May Deputy
to:
David Lidington interview: why Britain could join a customs union with the EU after Brexit
That's hilarious. But the cat is out of the bag now. Rejoining is back on the agenda.
Have you actually read Liddington's remarks?
They are measured, balanced, nuanced, and absolutely fair comment.
He accepts the existing EU and our full membership wasn't working for the UK. He says the decision has been made and can't be unmade. But he also says it's dangerous to say never say never in politics, and, if the EU, or other European institutions, were to radically change in the next 20 years, more in the UK's image, then who knows how the relationships might evolve?
The Telegraph has done what so many newspapers are now prone to do, in order to boost sales: simplify and then exaggerate to generate a controversial headline.
Even I agree with the sentiments but Brexit is the dominant issue and TM will be consumed with ot all year
Agreed , to be honest T May has a difficult job with Brexit and I really hope it works out well.
I think that is the mood in the Country but there are those who would like our Country to crash and burn to prove their obsession with the EU and that is sad
BigG we are in agreement For all its faults , I have been privileged to live in this country and this lovely city.
York is a wonderful city with it's Minster and jewel in the crown, the National Railway Museum.
We love having breaks in York and off course Yorkshire.
We live in a wonderful Country that we can all be proud off, warts and all
I love York too.The Ebor meeting was an old regular for me and for anyone with a bit of Yorkshire in their blood, and it was where I first took LSD in 1972 or rather where I ended up-long story!.So many homeless people now out sleeping on the streets in York last time I went,and in every other town and city.This disturbs me a great deal.
When I was in Vancouver last year they have a real crisis in homeless people. It is not just the UK that is experiencing this serious problem
Increasing numbers of rough sleepers in Leicester too. Snowing today as well.
Even I agree with the sentiments but Brexit is the dominant issue and TM will be consumed with ot all year
Agreed , to be honest T May has a difficult job with Brexit and I really hope it works out well.
I think that is the mood in the Country but there are those who would like our Country to crash and burn to prove their obsession with the EU and that is sad
BigG we are in agreement For all its faults , I have been privileged to live in this country and this lovely city.
York is a wonderful city with it's Minster and jewel in the crown, the National Railway Museum.
We love having breaks in York and off course Yorkshire.
We live in a wonderful Country that we can all be proud off, warts and all
I love York too.The Ebor meeting was an old regular for me and for anyone with a bit of Yorkshire in their blood, and it was where I first took LSD in 1972 or rather where I ended up-long story!.So many homeless people now out sleeping on the streets in York last time I went,and in every other town and city.This disturbs me a great deal.
When I was in Vancouver last year they have a real crisis in homeless people. It is not just the UK that is experiencing this serious problem
It's happening in so many cities worldwide as the cost of renting let alone buying housing is extortionate - and the availability of social housing and support for single people is very limited. You would be hard pressed to get a decent house in Vancouver for less than a million Canadian $ But those in charge have done very well out of the property asset boom - so neither they, banks and central bankers and developers are going to do much about it.
Mrs May seems to have forgotten her comments about cheap credit, money printing, excessive lending and the generational divide it has caused in terms of housing. But until young people are able to put a secure roof over their heads in their 20s and 30s the promise of inheriting a third of a house from their parents when they are in their mid 60s - assuming it doesn't go first on social care - they probably won't be overly happy about their lot.
Even I agree with the sentiments but Brexit is the dominant issue and TM will be consumed with ot all year
Agreed , to be honest T May has a difficult job with Brexit and I really hope it works out well.
I think that is the mood in the Country but there are those who would like our Country to crash and burn to prove their obsession with the EU and that is sad
BigG we are in agreement For all its faults , I have been privileged to live in this country and this lovely city.
York is a wonderful city with it's Minster and jewel in the crown, the National Railway Museum.
We love having breaks in York and off course Yorkshire.
We live in a wonderful Country that we can all be proud off, warts and all
I love York too.The Ebor meeting was an old regular for me and for anyone with a bit of Yorkshire in their blood, and it was where I first took LSD in 1972 or rather where I ended up-long story!.So many homeless people now out sleeping on the streets in York last time I went,and in every other town and city.This disturbs me a great deal.
When I was in Vancouver last year they have a real crisis in homeless people. It is not just the UK that is experiencing this serious problem
Increasing numbers of rough sleepers in Leicester too. Snowing today as well.
Curiously there seem to be more in Lichfield than in Cannock. I have no idea why. You would expect it to be the other way around given Cannock must be four times the size of Lichfield.
There seem to be fewer in Gloucester these days but I wonder if that's because of the efforts of one of the local free churches to sort out hostels, food, support etc rather than an economic improvement.
David Lidington interview: why Britain could join a customs union with the EU after Brexit
That's hilarious. But the cat is out of the bag now. Rejoining is back on the agenda.
Good morning all.
Rejoining has always been on the agenda. It's democracy. There's a mechanism for rejoining: article 49. I fully expect that a good chunk of the electorate will be quite keen to rejoin. If the conditions were right, I'd back rejoining.
I can't see the EU ever shaking off its ultimate federal goal, and the UK leaving will allow them to put their foot down.
As you say it's democracy and if people voted to rejoin, we should do so, but I think it's more likely other countries will follow us out.
I'm a terrible forecaster, but I think we'll actually see a two-speed Europe at some point. There are a number of countries playing silly sods with the ERM component of the convergence criteria.
That can't go on forever; as the Eurozone countries stand up more of the necessary elements of a currency union, it'll either pull countries in, or cause some kind of recognition that full monetary union (with all that entails) isn't what the various electorates want.
Where I do disagree is that our cooperation will somehow be underhand; we've seen how that works, so let's not repeat the mistakes. I would be delighted if we were members of Euratom and Erasmus+ and so on. As long as we're outside the treaty frameworks (Rome, Maastricht, Amsterdam, Nice, Lisbon et al), even a European Defence Force would be palatable.
My reading is the UK is happy to engage in bilateral, or even multilateral, cooperation in Europe, so long as it's answerable for that to the UK Parliament.
Even I agree with the sentiments but Brexit is the dominant issue and TM will be consumed with ot all year
Agreed , to be honest T May has a difficult job with Brexit and I really hope it works out well.
I think that is the mood in the Country but there are those who would like our Country to crash and burn to prove their obsession with the EU and that is sad
BigG we are in agreement For all its faults , I have been privileged to live in this country and this lovely city.
York is a wonderful city with it's Minster and jewel in the crown, the National Railway Museum.
We love having breaks in York and off course Yorkshire.
We live in a wonderful Country that we can all be proud off, warts and all
I .
When I was in Vancouver last year they have a real crisis in homeless people. It is not just the UK that is experiencing this serious problem
It's happening in so many cities worldwide as the cost of renting let alone buying housing is extortionate - and the availability of social housing and support for single people is very limited. You would be hard pressed to get a decent house in Vancouver for less than a million Canadian $ But those in charge have done very well out of the property asset boom - so neither they, banks and central bankers and developers are going to do much about it.
Mrs May seems to have forgotten her comments about cheap credit, money printing, excessive lending and the generational divide it has caused in terms of housing. But until young people are able to put a secure roof over their heads in their 20s and 30s the promise of inheriting a third of a house from their parents when they are in their mid 60s - assuming it doesn't go first on social care - they probably won't be overly happy about their lot.
The gap between rough sleeping and renting is huge, but I think a lot of the issue stems from lack of stable employment, and mental health issues including addictions. A fair number of our rough sleepers seem to be ex prisoners and ex military. Both get very poorly supported afterwards.
It is instructive to compare the influence that a third party has on policy in the UK under FPTP with Germany under modified PR.
UKIP’s share of the vote in 2010 was just 3.1% and it took no seats. Nevertheless it forced David Cameron’s hand to promise a referendum in the Conservative manifesto for the 2015 general election in which UKIP took 12.6% of the vote but just the Carswell seat in Parliament. Since then we have had the seismic Brexit referendum.
Compare that with the AfD in Germany, which achieved 4.7% in 2013 but, falling short of the 5% threshold, got no seats in the Bundestag. Then in 2017 the AfD coincidentally also got 12.6% of the vote, yielding 94 seats in the Bundestag. So much greater representation than UKIP in the UK for the same share of the vote.
However, though the horse-trading between the CDU and the SPD is not yet resolved, it is clear that the AfD’s policy agenda is nowhere near what will emerge if there is a grand coalition, and still less so if the “Jamaica” outcome with the CDU, Greens and the FDP is resurrected.
Whereas UKIP has essentially achieved its goal under FPTP in the UK, in Germany under PR the AfD has been contained as a side show.
Ukip achieved its goal despite FPTP, not because of it. David Cameron made the wrong call at every stage: the promise, the negotiations, the referendum before defining the alternatives, the project fear campaign complete with world war three, even resigning before stabilising the party. But his biggest mistake, ironically, was gerrymandering: knocking Labour and EU-leaning voters off the register. It won him a majority in 2015 and destroyed him a year later.
Macron has said that the UK could get a bespoke trade deal with the EU.
May be many underestimate TM in these negotiations. She had a very successful meeting with Macron with agreement on Calais and bi-lateral joint defence co-operation and assisting France in it's actions against ISIS in Africa. Even the idea of a fixed channel crossing was supported by Macron.
She meets Trump next week in Davos and then is to deliver a speech on joint European defence in Munich.
She seems to be liked by the EU elite so things are moving in a positive way.
I expect her to do a deal that is acceptable to the majority and then in mid to late 2019 stand down in favour of a new leader
Yep - we’re heading for a symbolic Brexit. Nods to the May red lines to spare her blushes, but pretty much as things are in reality. All we’ll have done is waste a lot of time and money, shaved a few points off GDP and diminished our soft power. Most will be fine with that. But those who aren’t will feel betrayed and will not be quiet about it.
There you go again.
We've listened to the people about our place in Europe for the first time since the early 90s. That is significant.
For sure. We’re leaving. Not much will change, but we’ll no longer be an EU member state.
I remember this guy from Barnsley on Question time the day after the 'meaningful vote' vote.
Are the people of Barnsley and many other towns which backed leave going to get what they think they voted for from Mrs May or Labour? UKIP may be on the way out - but the issues and concerns which drove its rise in support from 2012 to 2015 are still there.
We are I agree leaving the EU - but are we just going to become a vassal state of the EU bound by its rules and paying for the privilege but having no say over those rules?
Macron has said that the UK could get a bespoke trade deal with the EU.
May be many underestimate TM in these negotiations. She had a very successful meeting with Macron with agreement on Calais and bi-lateral joint defence co-operation and assisting France in it's actions against ISIS in Africa. Even the idea of a fixed channel crossing was supported by Macron.
She meets Trump next week in Davos and then is to deliver a speech on joint European defence in Munich.
She seems to be liked by the EU elite so things are moving in a positive way.
I expect her to do a deal that is acceptable to the majority and then in mid to late 2019 stand down in favour of a new leader
Big G , you sound like you are taken in as easily as Theresa. Remember her great meeting with Trump , and all her other successes. Correct they are making a cod of her and she has no clue. France will give her nothing for nothing , just look at us stumping up to fund the illegal immigrants in Calais, WTF is that all about.
We’ll get what the EU decides we can have. Same with any other trade agreement with a major market: the terms will be dictated from the other side of the table.
Macron cares far more about establishing himself as the new leader of Europe than he does about conforming to a united Franco-German front over Brexit under the umbrella of Merkel's rhetoric of "no cherry picking". He also doesn't have the baggage that she does over Cameron's failed renegotiation too.
For decades, France has played second fiddle to Germany within the EU's main power axis. Now, he wants to reverse it, and if leading the forging of a new deal with the UK helps him do so, he will, and take credit for it.
That's a good point. Certainly Macron is ambitious and self-confident in a way that Hollande never was. With the sun fading on Merkel now there is a void to be filled there too.
Macron has said that the UK could get a bespoke trade deal with the EU.
May be many underestimate TM in these negotiations. She had a very successful meeting with Macron with agreement on Calais and bi-lateral joint defence co-operation and assisting France in it's actions against ISIS in Africa. Even the idea of a fixed channel crossing was supported by Macron.
She meets Trump next week in Davos and then is to deliver a speech on joint European defence in Munich.
She seems to be liked by the EU elite so things are moving in a positive way.
I expect her to do a deal that is acceptable to the majority and then in mid to late 2019 stand down in favour of a new leader
Yep - we’re heading for a symbolic Brexit. Nods to the May red lines to spare her blushes, but pretty much as things are in reality. All we’ll have done is waste a lot of time and money, shaved a few points off GDP and diminished our soft power. Most will be fine with that. But those who aren’t will feel betrayed and will not be quiet about it.
There you go again.
We've listened to the people about our place in Europe for the first time since the early 90s. That is significant.
For sure. We’re leaving. Not much will change, but we’ll no longer be an EU member state.
May realised that it would take more than Brexit to deal with public concerns, hence her speech on assuming office. Sadly she appears devoid of both the ideas and the influence to make any progress.
On Brexit she is making progress and that dominates everything at present
I have yet to see any progress G, apart from giving away 50 Billion. What progress do you think they have made.
Macron has said that the UK could get a bespoke trade deal with the EU.
May be many underestimate TM in these negotiations. She had a very successful meeting with Macron with agreement on Calais and bi-lateral joint defence co-operation and assisting France in it's actions against ISIS in Africa. Even the idea of a fixed channel crossing was supported by Macron.
She meets Trump next week in Davos and then is to deliver a speech on joint European defence in Munich.
She seems to be liked by the EU elite so things are moving in a positive way.
I expect her to do a deal that is acceptable to the majority and then in mid to late 2019 stand down in favour of a new leader
Big G , you sound like you are taken in as easily as Theresa. Remember her great meeting with Trump , and all her other successes. Correct they are making a cod of her and she has no clue. France will give her nothing for nothing , just look at us stumping up to fund the illegal immigrants in Calais, WTF is that all about.
We’ll get what the EU decides we can have. Same with any other trade agreement with a major market: the terms will be dictated from the other side of the table.
Given we're the bigger market in goods for the EU, there might well be more than you think.
The EU is 27 individual countries.
That news might shock some in Brussels!
It might. But it’s what makes the EU’s negotiating position so strong. No country, not even Ireland, is as harmed as much as the UK by a no deal Brexit.
Macron has said that the UK could get a bespoke trade deal with the EU.
May be many underestimate TM in these negotiations. She had a very successful meeting with Macron with agreement on Calais and bi-lateral joint defence co-operation and assisting France in it's actions against ISIS in Africa. Even the idea of a fixed channel crossing was supported by Macron.
She meets Trump next week in Davos and then is to deliver a speech on joint European defence in Munich.
She seems to be liked by the EU elite so things are moving in a positive way.
I expect her to do a deal that is acceptable to the majority and then in mid to late 2019 stand down in favour of a new leader
Yep - we’re heading for a symbolic Brexit. Nods to the May red lines to spare her blushes, but pretty much as things are in reality. All we’ll have done is waste a lot of time and money, shaved a few points off GDP and diminished our soft power. Most will be fine with that. But those who aren’t will feel betrayed and will not be quiet about it.
There you go again.
We've listened to the people about our place in Europe for the first time since the early 90s. That is significant.
For sure. We’re leaving. Not much will change, but we’ll no longer be an EU member state.
I remember this guy from Barnsley on Question time the day after the 'meaningful vote' vote.
Are the people of Barnsley and many other towns which backed leave going to get what they think they voted for from Mrs May or Labour? UKIP may be on the way out - but the issues and concerns which drove its rise in support from 2012 to 2015 are still there.
We are I agree leaving the EU - but are we just going to become a vassal state of the EU bound by its rules and paying for the privilege but having no say over those rules?
I wonder if his middle aged children and young adult grandchildren agree with him? Obviously we all only have one family and it may not be representative, but the white hairs in mine might find what he says impressive. The working age ones don't. I have a feeling there are nowhere near as many people like this gentleman than some suppose.
It is instructive to compare the influence that a third party has on policy in the UK under FPTP with Germany under modified PR.
UKIP’s share of the vote in 2010 was just 3.1% and it took no seats. Nevertheless it forced David Cameron’s hand to promise a referendum in the Conservative manifesto for the 2015 general election in which UKIP took 12.6% of the vote but just the Carswell seat in Parliament. Since then we have had the seismic Brexit referendum.
Compare that with the AfD in Germany, which achieved 4.7% in 2013 but, falling short of the 5% threshold, got no seats in the Bundestag. Then in 2017 the AfD coincidentally also got 12.6% of the vote, yielding 94 seats in the Bundestag. So much greater representation than UKIP in the UK for the same share of the vote.
However, though the horse-trading between the CDU and the SPD is not yet resolved, it is clear that the AfD’s policy agenda is nowhere near what will emerge if there is a grand coalition, and still less so if the “Jamaica” outcome with the CDU, Greens and the FDP is resurrected.
Whereas UKIP has essentially achieved its goal under FPTP in the UK, in Germany under PR the AfD has been contained as a side show.
You're making the mistake of assuming only UKIP wanted a referendum, that only UKIP forced Cameron's hand and that only UKIP wanted Brexit to win the referendum.
Except the Leave campaign was headed by Conservatives.
When Cameron conceded the referendum it wasn't just due to UKIP rising up in the polls but because nearly a hundred of his own MPs had rebelled against him and demanded one. Then during the referendum a significant amount including many Cabinet ministers campaigned to Leave.
This was not just UKIP's doing. Yours is not a reasonable comparison unless you pick an issue where upto a hundred CDU MPs had rebelled against Merkel on that issue.
Ukip returning to previous levels doesn’t seem that unlikely to me.
Although Ukip always picked up a handful of MEPs, at Westminster it was almost invisible until David Cameron excluded most backbenchers from his chumocracy and at the same time, the LibDems left the NOTA field. If May can avoid Cameron's mishandling of the party, then a Ukip revival might depend mainly on whether the LibDems maintain their current irrelevance.
UKIP are a dead parrot, but there will always be a couple of percent for a right wing BNP/NF/EDL type party. The hard right is as full of splitters as the hard left, though with even less point.
The more interesting thing is where their voters will go. The lazy assumption in the spring was that they would go Tory, but post Brexit will that breakdown even more next time? A surprising proportion moved straight to Corbynism, it is possible that more will do so.
Interesting that Liddington floated the idea of rejoining btw, albeit dressed in a fig leaf of the EU having changed.
The Telegraph headline was misleading click bait
And online has been modified from the front page:
UK Could Rejoin EU in Future, says May Deputy
to:
David Lidington interview: why Britain could join a customs union with the EU after Brexit
That's hilarious. But the cat is out of the bag now. Rejoining is back on the agenda.
Have you actually read Liddington's remarks?
They are measured, balanced, nuanced, and absolutely fair comment.
He accepts the existing EU and our full membership wasn't working for the UK. He says the decision has been made and can't be unmade. But he also says it's dangerous to say never say never in politics, and, if the EU, or other European institutions, were to radically change in the next 20 years, more in the UK's image, then who knows how the relationships might evolve?
The Telegraph has done what so many newspapers are now prone to do, in order to boost sales: simplify and then exaggerate to generate a controversial headline.
So a cabinet minister talks to a major newspaper on a contentious subject, and we are supposed to take what he says literally? Even if the rebuttal didn't come out suspiciously quickly we'd be entitled to read between the lines.
But if you prefer to think he's honest but naive be my guest.
Even I agree with the sentiments but Brexit is the dominant issue and TM will be consumed with ot all year
Agreed , to be honest T May has a difficult job with Brexit and I really hope it works out well.
I think that is the mood in the Country but there are those who would like our Country to crash and burn to prove their obsession with the EU and that is sad
BigG we are in agreement For all its faults , I have been privileged to live in this country and this lovely city.
York is a wonderful city with it's Minster and jewel in the crown, the National Railway Museum.
We love having breaks in York and off course Yorkshire.
We live in a wonderful Country that we can all be proud off, warts and all
I love York too.The Ebor meeting was an old regular for me and for anyone with a bit of Yorkshire in their blood, and it was where I first took LSD in 1972 or rather where I ended up-long story!.So many homeless people now out sleeping on the streets in York last time I went,and in every other town and city.This disturbs me a great deal.
When I was in Vancouver last year they have a real crisis in homeless people. It is not just the UK that is experiencing this serious problem
Increasing numbers of rough sleepers in Leicester too. Snowing today as well.
First time I have seen rough-sleepers in the doorshops on the main front in Torquay - during the day.
Isn't there a lot of wishful thinking about Liddington's remarks ?
Of course we could rejoin the EU or a variant of the EU - whatever form that takes - in the future. That is a self evident fact.
We could do lots of other things as well if we wish. We don't even know what sort of world we will be living in in 20 years given the growth of automation and technology let alone the political and demographic changes we may well see in that time. The EU in 2038 won't be the EU it is now - it may not even exist.
As for the customs union issue - isn't that sort of our expect transitional state anyway to deal with the Irish border issue. In a customs union with the EU but not in the EU customs union. Turkey is in a customs union with the EU - it's not in the EU either.
Isn't there a lot of wishful thinking about Liddington's remarks ?
Of course we could rejoin the EU or a variant of the EU - whatever form that takes - in the future. That is a self evident fact.
We could do lots of other things as well if we wish. We don't even know what sort of world we will be living in in 20 years given the growth of automation and technology let alone the political and demographic changes we may well see in that time. The EU in 2038 won't be the EU it is now - it may not even exist.
As for the customs union issue - isn't that sort of our expect transitional state anyway to deal with the Irish border issue. In a customs union with the EU but not in the EU customs union. Turkey is in a customs union with the EU - it's not in the EU either.
Everything you say is correct, it is just that by bringing up the subject from his position in the cabinet it makes you wonder how committed he is to following through on a project that might be reversed. If you are selling tickets to boat trip round the lighthouse you don't talk about how you might turn round and come back half way if you want to make the sale.
It is worth remembering at this moment that the raison d'etre of the UCU when it was formed 15 years ago was to safeguard the pension rights of its members, along with safeguarding jobs and stopping the steep rise in VCs' pay. These were things which the AUT and NAFTHE solemnly assured us would be guaranteed with a joint union speaking with one voice.
It is also worth remembering that this is what the NUT and ATL have assured us in creating the new super-union the NEU, although there we have the added interesting incentive of no votes for union officers for five years.
The key difference I can see between the unions of today and the banks under Brown is that some people at least got something out of the banks.
Comments
She used to be such a good poster.
https://twitter.com/Moosedog23/status/954055326638198784
That is not surprising as most PBers are middle class
Macron has said that the UK could get a bespoke trade deal with the EU.
May be many underestimate TM in these negotiations. She had a very successful meeting with Macron with agreement on Calais and bi-lateral joint defence co-operation and assisting France in it's actions against ISIS in Africa. Even the idea of a fixed channel crossing was supported by Macron.
She meets Trump next week in Davos and then is to deliver a speech on joint European defence in Munich.
She seems to be liked by the EU elite so things are moving in a positive way.
I expect her to do a deal that is acceptable to the majority and then in mid to late 2019 stand down in favour of a new leader
As you say it's democracy and if people voted to rejoin, we should do so, but I think it's more likely other countries will follow us out.
Now isn't that interesting?
That anger aint gonna go away if nothing is done.
It is Theresa's red lines that are setting the parameters of the Deal. We are perfectly capable of softening the Deal, if we so choose. Barnier has always made that clear.
UKIP’s share of the vote in 2010 was just 3.1% and it took no seats. Nevertheless it forced David Cameron’s hand to promise a referendum in the Conservative manifesto for the 2015 general election in which UKIP took 12.6% of the vote but just the Carswell seat in Parliament. Since then we have had the seismic Brexit referendum.
Compare that with the AfD in Germany, which achieved 4.7% in 2013 but, falling short of the 5% threshold, got no seats in the Bundestag. Then in 2017 the AfD coincidentally also got 12.6% of the vote, yielding 94 seats in the Bundestag. So much greater representation than UKIP in the UK for the same share of the vote.
However, though the horse-trading between the CDU and the SPD is not yet resolved, it is clear that the AfD’s policy agenda is nowhere near what will emerge if there is a grand coalition, and still less so if the “Jamaica” outcome with the CDU, Greens and the FDP is resurrected.
Whereas UKIP has essentially achieved its goal under FPTP in the UK, in Germany under PR the AfD has been contained as a side show.
That can't go on forever; as the Eurozone countries stand up more of the necessary elements of a currency union, it'll either pull countries in, or cause some kind of recognition that full monetary union (with all that entails) isn't what the various electorates want.
Where I do disagree is that our cooperation will somehow be underhand; we've seen how that works, so let's not repeat the mistakes. I would be delighted if we were members of Euratom and Erasmus+ and so on. As long as we're outside the treaty frameworks (Rome, Maastricht, Amsterdam, Nice, Lisbon et al), even a European Defence Force would be palatable.
https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/954382497663586305
We love having breaks in York and off course Yorkshire.
We live in a wonderful Country that we can all be proud off, warts and all
We've listened to the people about our place in Europe for the first time since the early 90s. That is significant.
David Lidington doesn't understand what a customs union is, when he talks about a "sort of customs union". He's not alone, but as a man in charge and a Remainer who should be more interested in this stuff, it's maybe concerning. A customs union is a common tariff on all goods and is recognised as such by the WTO. There's not a lot to discuss. You just agree and implement it. The Turkish-EU CU excludes agriculture and is non-compliant by WTO rules (originally GATT the CU dates back to the 60's). If we have a CU with the EU it will include agriculture. A customs union is only concerned with tariffs. Regulatory alignment strictly is outside the scope. Pretty much the only reason for the UK NOT to be in a customs union with the EU is to be able to apply a lower tariff on citrus fruits, as we don't have a citrus industry to protect.
Well, now we've listened.
For decades, France has played second fiddle to Germany within the EU's main power axis. Now, he wants to reverse it, and if leading the forging of a new deal with the UK helps him do so, he will, and take credit for it.
They are measured, balanced, nuanced, and absolutely fair comment.
He accepts the existing EU and our full membership wasn't working for the UK. He says the decision has been made and can't be unmade. But he also says it's dangerous to say never say never in politics, and, if the EU, or other European institutions, were to radically change in the next 20 years, more in the UK's image, then who knows how the relationships might evolve?
The Telegraph has done what so many newspapers are now prone to do, in order to boost sales: simplify and then exaggerate to generate a controversial headline.
Mrs May seems to have forgotten her comments about cheap credit, money printing, excessive lending and the generational divide it has caused in terms of housing. But until young people are able to put a secure roof over their heads in their 20s and 30s the promise of inheriting a third of a house from their parents when they are in their mid 60s - assuming it doesn't go first on social care - they probably won't be overly happy about their lot.
There seem to be fewer in Gloucester these days but I wonder if that's because of the efforts of one of the local free churches to sort out hostels, food, support etc rather than an economic improvement.
https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/emissions/are-electric-cars-actually-worse-for-the-environment/
Given the issues it raises for all parties it's well worth a read.
Are the people of Barnsley and many other towns which backed leave going to get what they think they voted for from Mrs May or Labour? UKIP may be on the way out - but the issues and concerns which drove its rise in support from 2012 to 2015 are still there.
We are I agree leaving the EU - but are we just going to become a vassal state of the EU bound by its rules and paying for the privilege but having no say over those rules?
https://youtu.be/YhybVnqxI1Q
Wrong on this subject day in, day out.
Except the Leave campaign was headed by Conservatives.
When Cameron conceded the referendum it wasn't just due to UKIP rising up in the polls but because nearly a hundred of his own MPs had rebelled against him and demanded one. Then during the referendum a significant amount including many Cabinet ministers campaigned to Leave.
This was not just UKIP's doing. Yours is not a reasonable comparison unless you pick an issue where upto a hundred CDU MPs had rebelled against Merkel on that issue.
The Tory MP Who Backed Vasectomies For The Jobless Wanted Police To Play "Splat The Chav" With Water Cannon
Conservative MP Ben Bradley said he was looking forward to watching police play "splat the chav" with water cannon after the London riots.
Bradley celebrated a decision by David Cameron to allow police to deploy water cannon to bring rioters under control.
"The water cannons are coming," Bradley told his followers, under a picture of a water cannon spraying protesters in Ireland.
"I'll be in front of the news tonight watching police play 'Splat the Chav,'" he continued.
Getting sprayed by water is the least the rioters deserved. Should have happened on night 2 (I can understand not being ready for it on night 1).
Have you actually read Liddington's remarks?
They are measured, balanced, nuanced, and absolutely fair comment.
He accepts the existing EU and our full membership wasn't working for the UK. He says the decision has been made and can't be unmade. But he also says it's dangerous to say never say never in politics, and, if the EU, or other European institutions, were to radically change in the next 20 years, more in the UK's image, then who knows how the relationships might evolve?
The Telegraph has done what so many newspapers are now prone to do, in order to boost sales: simplify and then exaggerate to generate a controversial headline.
So a cabinet minister talks to a major newspaper on a contentious subject, and we are supposed to take what he says literally? Even if the rebuttal didn't come out suspiciously quickly we'd be entitled to read between the lines.
But if you prefer to think he's honest but naive be my guest.
Isn't there a lot of wishful thinking about Liddington's remarks ?
Of course we could rejoin the EU or a variant of the EU - whatever form that takes - in the future. That is a self evident fact.
We could do lots of other things as well if we wish. We don't even know what sort of world we will be living in in 20 years given the growth of automation and technology let alone the political and demographic changes we may well see in that time. The EU in 2038 won't be the EU it is now - it may not even exist.
As for the customs union issue - isn't that sort of our expect transitional state anyway to deal with the Irish border issue. In a customs union with the EU but not in the EU customs union. Turkey is in a customs union with the EU - it's not in the EU either.
https://www.varsity.co.uk/news/14451
Aren't most private pensions already 'defined contribution' these days?
It is also worth remembering that this is what the NUT and ATL have assured us in creating the new super-union the NEU, although there we have the added interesting incentive of no votes for union officers for five years.
The key difference I can see between the unions of today and the banks under Brown is that some people at least got something out of the banks.