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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,881
    edited January 2018
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Weird list. Macclesfield looks like an overreach whereas commuter towns in the south are missed out such as Stevenage where I'd have thought Labours railway message might work

    You are making the assumption that Corbyn is rational and his back-office staff are intelligent.

    Hasn't experience taught you that whatever his talent for tapping into raw emotion these are unwise assumptions?
    This is not the complete list - just those targets where PPCs are in place
    Then that's a second puzzling point - Corbyn has said (sensibly under the circumstances) that he's on a permanent election footing and ready to take on the Tories.

    Yet he doesn't have a full slate of candidates in target seats? Very careless.
    New deadline is 31/3/18

    Local CLPs were supposed to have completed by 31/12/17
    What's the delay? Or were they afraid of more O'Mara and Coad style embarrassments?
    Probably a factor. Although given the Toby Young and Ben Bradley fiascos it would appear the problem is not just a Labour one.

    More likely down to CLPs being bloody useless in a lot of cases.
    Plenty of time, but good idea to get PPCs getting under the skin of their new constituencies. Incidentally, I see Momentum now claims a membership of 35 000, so approx 6% of Labour members, nowhere near a plurality, albeit a fairly vocal minority. Something to bear in mind when considering odds of various potential Jezza successors:

    https://twitter.com/Moosedog23/status/954055326638198784/photo/1
    Am I the only one who looks at that picture and sees this: ?
    image
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,186

    Ahem, I meant a MORE winnable seat for NPxMP

    That's still not as good as 'Trump: no heart, cognitive issues.'

    I used that yesterday as an example of why good punctuation matters.
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    When was the last time we had a shutdown when one party controlled all three parts of the executive and legislature?
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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    ALL parties experience difficulties with unsuitable candidates. Which can often be exacerbated when a party is a) unprepared for an election (or less prepared than they'd like to be; and/or b) does better when the votes are counted than was believed possible, by winning seats it (and just about everyone else) thought they'd lose.

    Just one example: in 1932, Democrats in Washington State, with FDR and Hoover atop the national tickets, won a smashing victory, and went from a weak minority to a strong majority in the state legislature. Unfortunately, one Dem elected to state house in a formerly safe Republican district turned out to have been convicted of statutory rape, an "infamous felony" that rendered him ineligible to serve (or even be a voter). So first act of the new WA House of Representatives upon organization, was expelling this guy.

    Another problem for Democrats that session, was many were elected who had NOT expected to have to spend the first weeks of 1933 serving in the legislature and living in Olympia - they had to jam themselve four-or-more deep in whatever rooms they could find AND afford.

    Great to see you on the site again. I was in your wonderful city of Seattle last month. Absolutely a must visit. We just stayed 3 nights which wasn't enough and hopefully we'll be back in the not too distant future.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,850
    Maybe 10% of those on the Left are actually Momentum MEMBERS in my CLP.

    I think 6% is about right but that equates to 60% of members who are Corbyn supporting.

    My CLP supported Corbyn over Smith by 65% to 35% and that was with new members locked out.

    I and 90% of active members of my Branch consider ourselves to be on the left of the party not a single one of us is a Momentum member.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,186

    When was the last time we had a shutdown when one party controlled all three parts of the executive and legislature?

    1980 under Carter.
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    QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,949

    When was the last time we had a shutdown when one party controlled all three parts of the executive and legislature?

    Depends on what you count as a shutdown. The US didn't used to actually send everyone home in the Federal government during a funding gap, until the Attorney General re-interpreted the law in the early 1980s. There were some 1979 funding gaps under Carter and a Democrat Congress - but none since shutdowns became Shutdowns, if you catch my drift.
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    QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,949
    ydoethur said:

    When was the last time we had a shutdown when one party controlled all three parts of the executive and legislature?

    1980 under Carter.
    Wiki says Carter's last was in October 1979? It may be wrong though.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_federal_funding_gaps
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,186
    Quincel said:

    ydoethur said:

    When was the last time we had a shutdown when one party controlled all three parts of the executive and legislature?

    1980 under Carter.
    Wiki says Carter's last was in October 1979? It may be wrong though.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_federal_funding_gaps
    One day in May 1980.

    To confirm Wikipedia is amusingly inconsistent even within itself, see this page:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_shutdowns_in_the_United_States

    But this link seems reliable:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1981/11/24/behind-the-shutdown-a-long-dormant-law/43585d40-843b-4f2e-a8b3-0a74b2350fcc/?utm_term=.07bf0ee592a7
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    ydoethur said:

    When was the last time we had a shutdown when one party controlled all three parts of the executive and legislature?

    1980 under Carter.
    Quincel said:

    When was the last time we had a shutdown when one party controlled all three parts of the executive and legislature?

    Depends on what you count as a shutdown. The US didn't used to actually send everyone home in the Federal government during a funding gap, until the Attorney General re-interpreted the law in the early 1980s. There were some 1979 funding gaps under Carter and a Democrat Congress - but none since shutdowns became Shutdowns, if you catch my drift.
    Thanks
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,571
    I can't see a London seat in the list above.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,594
    edited January 2018

    Maybe 10% of those on the Left are actually Momentum MEMBERS in my CLP.

    I think 6% is about right but that equates to 60% of members who are Corbyn supporting.

    My CLP supported Corbyn over Smith by 65% to 35% and that was with new members locked out.

    I and 90% of active members of my Branch consider ourselves to be on the left of the party not a single one of us is a Momentum member.

    Sure, and that was not far off national figures so Chesterfield may well be fairly typical.

    When PBers post about Momentum's influence, it is worth bearing in mind that even most leftwing Labour members are not taking orders, indeed my recollection is that members do not like being told who they should vote for.
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    QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,949
    ydoethur said:

    Quincel said:

    ydoethur said:

    When was the last time we had a shutdown when one party controlled all three parts of the executive and legislature?

    1980 under Carter.
    Wiki says Carter's last was in October 1979? It may be wrong though.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_federal_funding_gaps
    One day in May 1980.

    To confirm Wikipedia is amusingly inconsistent even within itself, see this page:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_shutdowns_in_the_United_States

    But this link seems reliable:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1981/11/24/behind-the-shutdown-a-long-dormant-law/43585d40-843b-4f2e-a8b3-0a74b2350fcc/?utm_term=.07bf0ee592a7
    Interesting, thanks.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Foxy said:

    Maybe 10% of those on the Left are actually Momentum MEMBERS in my CLP.

    I think 6% is about right but that equates to 60% of members who are Corbyn supporting.

    My CLP supported Corbyn over Smith by 65% to 35% and that was with new members locked out.

    I and 90% of active members of my Branch consider ourselves to be on the left of the party not a single one of us is a Momentum member.

    Sure, and that was not far off national figures so Chesterfield may well be fairly typical.

    When PBers post about Momentum's influence, it is worth bearing in mind that even most leftwing Labour members are not taking orders, indeed myvrecollection is that members do not like being told who they should vote for.
    Momentum does have influence. Their members are regularly pushing lines in social media channels, promoting candidates in internal elections and posing motions in various bodies.

    In internal party politics a few organised and motivated souls can and do make s big difference.

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    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,970
    edited January 2018
    Andy_JS said:

    I can't see a London seat in the list above.

    Watford would be the nearest. It's Hertfordshire, but still inside the M25.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,850
    Foxy said:

    Maybe 10% of those on the Left are actually Momentum MEMBERS in my CLP.

    I think 6% is about right but that equates to 60% of members who are Corbyn supporting.

    My CLP supported Corbyn over Smith by 65% to 35% and that was with new members locked out.

    I and 90% of active members of my Branch consider ourselves to be on the left of the party not a single one of us is a Momentum member.

    Sure, and that was not far off national figures so Chesterfield may well be fairly typical.

    When PBers post about Momentum's influence, it is worth bearing in mind that even most leftwing Labour members are not taking orders, indeed my recollection is that members do not like being told who they should vote for.
    Correct. In fact in NE Derbyshire "National Momentum" endorsed a Candidate without even consulting the local Momentum Branch.

    Peoples front of Judea stuff but may well just lose that candidate enough votes if its close.

    The fact the Derbyshire Times is banging on about Bex with supportive articles for 3 weeks running might be counter productive for her though
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,594
    Jonathan said:

    Foxy said:

    Maybe 10% of those on the Left are actually Momentum MEMBERS in my CLP.

    I think 6% is about right but that equates to 60% of members who are Corbyn supporting.

    My CLP supported Corbyn over Smith by 65% to 35% and that was with new members locked out.

    I and 90% of active members of my Branch consider ourselves to be on the left of the party not a single one of us is a Momentum member.

    Sure, and that was not far off national figures so Chesterfield may well be fairly typical.

    When PBers post about Momentum's influence, it is worth bearing in mind that even most leftwing Labour members are not taking orders, indeed myvrecollection is that members do not like being told who they should vote for.
    Momentum does have influence. Their members are regularly pushing lines in social media channels, promoting candidates in internal elections and posing motions in various bodies.

    In internal party politics a few organised and motivated souls can and do make s big difference.

    Even a few LD Centrist Dads follow @Momentum :)

    But while they can influence, the idea that they can annoint a successor to Jezza for rubber stamping by a pliant Labour membership is for the birds.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,186

    Correct. In fact in NE Derbyshire "National Momentum" endorsed a Candidate without even consulting the local Momentum Branch.

    Peoples front of Judea stuff but may well just lose that candidate enough votes if its close.

    The fact the Derbyshire Times is banging on about Bex with supportive articles for 3 weeks running might be counter productive for her though

    Why? What's the animus against the Derbyshire Times?
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,850
    ydoethur said:

    Correct. In fact in NE Derbyshire "National Momentum" endorsed a Candidate without even consulting the local Momentum Branch.

    Peoples front of Judea stuff but may well just lose that candidate enough votes if its close.

    The fact the Derbyshire Times is banging on about Bex with supportive articles for 3 weeks running might be counter productive for her though

    Why? What's the animus against the Derbyshire Times?
    Its owned by Thomson press.

    Most party members would consider it to be a Tory Rag. And people just dont like seeing it "backing" one of the Candidates (who just happens to be the most Anti Jezza Candidate)


    Apparently they lost over 100 of their Annual Subscribers over the Tory Wrap around at GE 2017 I am told.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,186

    ydoethur said:

    Correct. In fact in NE Derbyshire "National Momentum" endorsed a Candidate without even consulting the local Momentum Branch.

    Peoples front of Judea stuff but may well just lose that candidate enough votes if its close.

    The fact the Derbyshire Times is banging on about Bex with supportive articles for 3 weeks running might be counter productive for her though

    Why? What's the animus against the Derbyshire Times?
    Its owned by Thomson press.

    Most party members would consider it to be a Tory Rag. And people just dont like seeing it "backing" one of the Candidates (who just happens to be the most Anti Jezza Candidate)


    Apparently they lost over 100 of their Annual Subscribers over the Tory Wrap around at GE 2017 I am told.
    I see. Thanks.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,850
    Off Topic I see the Stan James name disappears next month.

    Took over by UNIBET a while back all SJ Customers are moved over first week in Feb and name goes completely later in February.

    I will miss it and despite being told the new product will be better will reserve judgement on that.

    I have had 5 lots of Hospitality including 3 Cheltenham Boxes in the last year. At the last one they gave away 4 i Phone 10s over 2 days.

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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,202

    ydoethur said:

    Correct. In fact in NE Derbyshire "National Momentum" endorsed a Candidate without even consulting the local Momentum Branch.

    Peoples front of Judea stuff but may well just lose that candidate enough votes if its close.

    The fact the Derbyshire Times is banging on about Bex with supportive articles for 3 weeks running might be counter productive for her though

    Why? What's the animus against the Derbyshire Times?
    Its owned by Thomson press.

    Most party members would consider it to be a Tory Rag. And people just dont like seeing it "backing" one of the Candidates (who just happens to be the most Anti Jezza Candidate)


    Apparently they lost over 100 of their Annual Subscribers over the Tory Wrap around at GE 2017 I am told.
    What has happened to the investigation into her claims?
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited January 2018

    Off Topic I see the Stan James name disappears next month.

    Took over by UNIBET a while back all SJ Customers are moved over first week in Feb and name goes completely later in February.

    I will miss it and despite being told the new product will be better will reserve judgement on that.

    I have had 5 lots of Hospitality including 3 Cheltenham Boxes in the last year. At the last one they gave away 4 i Phone 10s over 2 days.

    bad memories.,,,

    I had a shop bet with SJ on sadiq khan 4 next london mayor @ 40/1 for £25, way back in ~2013 (IIRC, following a tip on PB from @HenryGManson )

    I still can't find the damn betting slip.....

    I'll have one last look tomorrow.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    I have had 5 lots of Hospitality including 3 Cheltenham Boxes in the last year. At the last one they gave away 4 i Phone 10s over 2 days.

    They closed my account
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,055
    Who are the Brexit three?
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,186
    Pong said:

    Off Topic I see the Stan James name disappears next month.

    Took over by UNIBET a while back all SJ Customers are moved over first week in Feb and name goes completely later in February.

    I will miss it and despite being told the new product will be better will reserve judgement on that.

    I have had 5 lots of Hospitality including 3 Cheltenham Boxes in the last year. At the last one they gave away 4 i Phone 10s over 2 days.

    bad memories.,,,

    I had a shop bet with SJ on sadiq khan 4 next london mayor @ 40/1 for £25, way back in ~2013 (IIRC, following a tip on PB from @HenryGManson )

    I still can't find the damn betting slip.....

    I'll have one last look tomorrow.
    Ouch!
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,055
    Desperation from Boris... His article sounds like a long-form version of this tweet from his Telegraph friend:
    https://twitter.com/timothy_stanley/status/954753682289123328
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    Andy_JS said:

    I can't see a London seat in the list above.

    Watford would be the nearest. It's Hertfordshire, but still inside the M25.
    But not in Greater London. Mike actually says in the text of his thread:
    "The geographical location is interesting with none being within Greater London."
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    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Weird list. Macclesfield looks like an overreach whereas commuter towns in the south are missed out such as Stevenage where I'd have thought Labours railway message might work

    You are making the assumption that Corbyn is rational and his back-office staff are intelligent.

    Hasn't experience taught you that whatever his talent for tapping into raw emotion these are unwise assumptions?
    This is not the complete list - just those targets where PPCs are in place
    Then that's a second puzzling point - Corbyn has said (sensibly under the circumstances) that he's on a permanent election footing and ready to take on the Tories.

    Yet he doesn't have a full slate of candidates in target seats? Very careless.
    New deadline is 31/3/18

    Local CLPs were supposed to have completed by 31/12/17
    What's the delay? Or were they afraid of more O'Mara and Coad style embarrassments?
    Probably a factor. Although given the Toby Young and Ben Bradley fiascos it would appear the problem is not just a Labour one.

    More likely down to CLPs being bloody useless in a lot of cases.
    Plenty of time, but good idea to get PPCs getting under the skin of their new constituencies. Incidentally, I see Momentum now claims a membership of 35 000, so approx 6% of Labour members, nowhere near a plurality, albeit a fairly vocal minority. Something to bear in mind when considering odds of various potential Jezza successors:

    https://twitter.com/Moosedog23/status/954055326638198784/photo/1
    Am I the only one who looks at that picture and sees this: ?
    image
    Maybe, but this is funnier and more visually aposite if you make the connection.

    https://twitter.com/Markgatiss/status/954045792557453312
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    PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    Scott_P said:

    That just goes to show how out of touch Theresa May`s Foreign Secretary is.
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    PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    Scott_P said:
    Does the mean that top Conservatives are corrupt? Just asking.....
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,986
    PClipp said:

    Scott_P said:

    That just goes to show how out of touch Theresa May`s Foreign Secretary is.
    Trump is the POTUS and Boris is the British Trump
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,850
    Scott_P said:
    If true it is stupid.

    It is no business of Momentum and will backfire badly
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,986
    edited January 2018

    Scott_P said:
    If true it is stupid.

    It is no business of Momentum and will backfire badly
    Momentum have clearly decided they need to add at least another 50 MPs to their ranks within the 262 current Labour MPs and do the same with Labour candidates in Tory marginals too to ensure Corbyn has a clear enough mandate for his programme if he forms a government, ideally one with an overall working majority
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    On topic, suggest that PBers with some influence in Labour Party circles (you know who you are) help Nick P xMP to find a less-marginal, winnable seat.

    Off topic, proud that my Mayor, Jenny Durkan has got today's Womens March in Seattle off to a great start despite less-than-appealing weather.

    Also off topic, am highly dubious re: the federal govt shutdown. For one thing, reckon it's going over like lead balloon with majority of Americans across political spectrum. For another, wish that IF congressional Dems want a shutdown, they'd pick some issue OTHER than immigration to make a stand - something, anything that wouild help us in rust belts and rural districts where Dems used to win national elections, areas where urban Dem elitism & ID politicshas hollowed out former Dem voting strength.

    Good to see you back.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,850
    Oh I see the last sentence has a quote from Momentum saying they are not campaigning for the deselection of any sitting MPs.

    Murdoch Bullshit Methinks
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    Oh I see the last sentence has a quote from Momentum saying they are not campaigning for the deselection of any sitting MPs.

    Murdoch Bullshit Methinks

    They would say that though
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    Oh I see the last sentence has a quote from Momentum saying they are not campaigning for the deselection of any sitting MPs.

    Murdoch Bullshit Methinks

    Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.
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    Who are the Brexit three?

    PClipp said:

    Scott_P said:
    Does the mean that top Conservatives are corrupt? Just asking.....
    Remember the Mail on Sunday is a full on remainer paper unlike the Daily Mail
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    My moles tell me the Brexit three on the front of The Mail on Sunday are

    i) Andrew Mitchell
    ii) Peter Lilley
    iii) Andrew Lansley
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,850

    Oh I see the last sentence has a quote from Momentum saying they are not campaigning for the deselection of any sitting MPs.

    Murdoch Bullshit Methinks

    Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.
    Why dont they make up I mean print the list?
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    My moles tell me the Brexit three on the front of The Mail on Sunday are

    i) Andrew Mitchell
    ii) Peter Lilley
    iii) Andrew Lansley

    Well no surprise there
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    PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    HYUFD said:

    PClipp said:

    Scott_P said:

    That just goes to show how out of touch Theresa May`s Foreign Secretary is.
    Trump is the POTUS and Boris is the British Trump
    Not really. He is Theresa May`s answer to Trump. Not the British People`s at all. We repudiate him.
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    PClipp said:

    HYUFD said:

    PClipp said:

    Scott_P said:

    That just goes to show how out of touch Theresa May`s Foreign Secretary is.
    Trump is the POTUS and Boris is the British Trump
    Not really. He is Theresa May`s answer to Trump. Not the British People`s at all. We repudiate him.
    Boris with all his faults is nowhere near Trump
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,055

    PClipp said:

    HYUFD said:

    PClipp said:

    Scott_P said:

    That just goes to show how out of touch Theresa May`s Foreign Secretary is.
    Trump is the POTUS and Boris is the British Trump
    Not really. He is Theresa May`s answer to Trump. Not the British People`s at all. We repudiate him.
    Boris with all his faults is nowhere near Trump
    No, Trump's actually built things with his name on them...
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    Oh I see the last sentence has a quote from Momentum saying they are not campaigning for the deselection of any sitting MPs.

    Murdoch Bullshit Methinks

    Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.
    Why dont they make up I mean print the list?
    The next twelve months will be a watershed for many moderate labour MP's
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,594

    Oh I see the last sentence has a quote from Momentum saying they are not campaigning for the deselection of any sitting MPs.

    Murdoch Bullshit Methinks

    They would say that though
    Only a witch would deny that she is a witch!

    https://youtu.be/zrzMhU_4m-g
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,986
    edited January 2018
    PClipp said:

    HYUFD said:

    PClipp said:

    Scott_P said:

    That just goes to show how out of touch Theresa May`s Foreign Secretary is.
    Trump is the POTUS and Boris is the British Trump
    Not really. He is Theresa May`s answer to Trump. Not the British People`s at all. We repudiate him.
    Do 'we'? Boris was effectively the de facto leader of the Leave campaign in 2016 which won the referendum despite the 3 main party leaders, Cameron, Corbyn and Farron backing Remain, with Leave also being endorsed by Trump of course.

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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Oh I see the last sentence has a quote from Momentum saying they are not campaigning for the deselection of any sitting MPs.

    Murdoch Bullshit Methinks

    Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.
    Why dont they make up I mean print the list?
    The next twelve months will be a watershed for many moderate labour MP's

    A watershed ... or a tsunami.

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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Hilary Benn and both the Eagle sisters are on the Momentum hit list.
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    TGOHF said:

    Hilary Benn and both the Eagle sisters are on the Momentum hit list.

    Well that should alert the 170 odd who rebelled against him. This could become very serious for labour
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:

    Hilary Benn and both the Eagle sisters are on the Momentum hit list.

    Well that should alert the 170 odd who rebelled against him. This could become very serious for labour

    TGOHF said:

    Hilary Benn and both the Eagle sisters are on the Momentum hit list.

    Well that should alert the 170 odd who rebelled against him. This could become very serious for labour
    Chris Leslie too .
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    Mike! Glad you & yours enjoyed your recent visit to Seattle & the Pacific Northwest. It's truly a remarkable part of the world. And am sure the weather made you feel at home. Just out of curiosity, what did you find (good and/or bad) that you least expected?

    Re: WA State politics, Democratic victory in key state senate special election last year means that Dems control Gov's office and both houses of legislature. Result for current legislative session is end to previous partisan log-jam. On Friday Gov. Jay Inslee signed state capital budget, huge deal for state, regional local infrastructure & projects. Dems are also moving number of election bills, for example same-day voter registration (allowing eligible citizens to register at the time the cast their ballot) and expanded ability to bring suit to redistrict local councils (such as federal suit that ended up redistricting Yakima, WA city council which resulted in first-ever election of Hispanics in town that's had a large Latino majority for some time.

    Current economic boom which is strong in Seattle area (& also WA burbs of Portland, OR) but spotty in rest of state is swelling state coffers. HOWEVER legislature is under state court order to find more funding for public education (the "paramount duty" of state government under the WA constitution) so fiscal picture is still unclear. Especially since most voters - particularly swing voters in swing districts - are currently allergic to taxes in general, though they will often support specific taxes such as local school levies. For some this is typical, but for others it's because they have NOT yet benefited enough, and do NOT yet have enough confidence in the economic upswing.

    In this year's mid-term elections all 98 state house seats are up, along with half of 49-seat state senate. So far all indications are that national AND statewide political climate will favor Dems. In only statewide partisan election, US Sen. Maria Cantwell has yet to draw any serious opposition from Rs or Ds and looks to be a lock for re-election. As for Congress & legislature, fact that redistricting must be done by partisan consensus in WA means that number of swing districts is quite limited. Most likely federal pickup for Dems is 8th CD where incumbent Dave Reichert is retiring, but this district is a VERY tough nut to crack, esp as third is pro-Trump rural turf.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,986
    edited January 2018

    TGOHF said:

    Hilary Benn and both the Eagle sisters are on the Momentum hit list.

    Well that should alert the 170 odd who rebelled against him. This could become very serious for labour
    Subtract 50 from 170 and you get to 120 ie less than half the 262 current number of Labour MPs. So you can see the logic in Momentum's position, especially when you consider most of the 30 extra Labour MPs who won their seats last June will be grateful to Corbyn under whose leadership they won their seats
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,105
    TGOHF said:

    Hilary Benn and both the Eagle sisters are on the Momentum hit list.

    Well, that's quite an attractive Manifesto.....
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,986
    TGOHF said:

    Hilary Benn and both the Eagle sisters are on the Momentum hit list.

    Angela Eagle of course launched a leadership campaign to challenge Corbyn until she pulled out and backed Owen Smith
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,280
    edited January 2018
    HYUFD said:

    TGOHF said:

    Hilary Benn and both the Eagle sisters are on the Momentum hit list.

    Well that should alert the 170 odd who rebelled against him. This could become very serious for labour
    Subtract 50 from 170 and you get to 120 ie less than half the 262 current number of Labour MPs. So you can see the logic in Momentum's position, especially when you consider most of the 30 extra Labour MPs who won their seats last June will be grateful to Corbyn under whose leadership they won their seats
    The problem with that is a move against the 50 would by definition scare the rest and would almost certainly see a split as has just been said by the Sky paper reviewers
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    Confirmed.

    Top Tories in Chinese 'cash for Brexit' furore: Three ex-Cabinet Ministers targeted by 'Miss Liu' in Mayfair consultancy sting


    Senior politicians were allegedly lured to Chinese company's luxury offices

    They were promised cash and all expenses paid trip to Hong Kong for their info

    Andrew Lansley, Andrew Mitchell and Peter Lilley have all denied wrongdoing


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5292825/Cabinet-ministers-told-China-make-money-Brexit.html
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,055
    Opposition to a transition deal from Jacob Rees-Mogg.
    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/954831169010495489
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,571

    Confirmed.

    Top Tories in Chinese 'cash for Brexit' furore: Three ex-Cabinet Ministers targeted by 'Miss Liu' in Mayfair consultancy sting


    Senior politicians were allegedly lured to Chinese company's luxury offices

    They were promised cash and all expenses paid trip to Hong Kong for their info

    Andrew Lansley, Andrew Mitchell and Peter Lilley have all denied wrongdoing


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5292825/Cabinet-ministers-told-China-make-money-Brexit.html

    Two of the three are no longer in the Commons.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,594

    Oh I see the last sentence has a quote from Momentum saying they are not campaigning for the deselection of any sitting MPs.

    Murdoch Bullshit Methinks

    Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.
    Why dont they make up I mean print the list?
    The next twelve months will be a watershed for many moderate labour MP's

    A watershed ... or a tsunami.

    What number of Labour MPs do you expect to be deselected this year?

    There could be the makings of a bet here, though would need some clear criteria.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    So the Dispatches story is the ex MPs were offered cash and didn’t take it.

    Hold the Pulitzer nominations...
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,959

    Charles said:

    FPT:

    Charles said:

    FWIW I was told the other day that many of the opioids are being manufactured in Chinese state owned facilities

    I was also told that the percentage of the US population addicted is remarkably similar to the percentage of Chinese addicted in the opium wars...
    Thanks for that info, it’s sadly ironic that’s the case.
    Not ironic. Deliberate. Revenge is a dish best served cold.
    Could it be possible that the Chinese are manufacturing at 'extra stength' ?
    I believe a lot of Fentanyl, the strongest and most dangerous opioid, is made in China.
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    Foxy said:

    Oh I see the last sentence has a quote from Momentum saying they are not campaigning for the deselection of any sitting MPs.

    Murdoch Bullshit Methinks

    Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.
    Why dont they make up I mean print the list?
    The next twelve months will be a watershed for many moderate labour MP's

    A watershed ... or a tsunami.

    What number of Labour MPs do you expect to be deselected this year?

    There could be the makings of a bet here, though would need some clear criteria.
    I think it is hard to call but if the ones named were the warfare in labour would rival Kinnocks battles against the hard left. It really is worrying and sad.

    It is the last thing the Country needs just now but beginning to look inevitable
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,986

    HYUFD said:

    TGOHF said:

    Hilary Benn and both the Eagle sisters are on the Momentum hit list.

    Well that should alert the 170 odd who rebelled against him. This could become very serious for labour
    Subtract 50 from 170 and you get to 120 ie less than half the 262 current number of Labour MPs. So you can see the logic in Momentum's position, especially when you consider most of the 30 extra Labour MPs who won their seats last June will be grateful to Corbyn under whose leadership they won their seats
    The problem with that is a move against the 50 would by definition scare the rest and would almost certainly see a split as has just been said by the Sky paper reviewers
    Only if someone like Umunna took the plunge and led a move to an En Marche style party
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,986

    Opposition to a transition deal from Jacob Rees-Mogg.
    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/954831169010495489

    Apparently Mogg has 100 Tory MPs behind him to vote to end free movement and leave the single market on 31st March 2019 as soon as Brexit is completed. However May should still be able to get the 2 year transition period through, though she will probably have to rely on Labour, LD and SNP votes to do so
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,850
    Foxy said:

    Oh I see the last sentence has a quote from Momentum saying they are not campaigning for the deselection of any sitting MPs.

    Murdoch Bullshit Methinks

    Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.
    Why dont they make up I mean print the list?
    The next twelve months will be a watershed for many moderate labour MP's

    A watershed ... or a tsunami.

    What number of Labour MPs do you expect to be deselected this year?

    There could be the makings of a bet here, though would need some clear criteria.
    I go for less than 1 where someone on the fictitious list is actually deselected in 2018.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,055
    HYUFD said:

    Apparently Mogg has 100 Tory MPs behind him to vote to end free movement and leave the single market on 31st March 2019 as soon as Brexit is completed. However May should still be able to get the 2 year transition period through, though she will probably have to rely on Labour, LD and SNP votes to do so

    I'm sure Corbyn can be relied upon not to bring the government down over Brexit...
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,594

    Foxy said:

    Oh I see the last sentence has a quote from Momentum saying they are not campaigning for the deselection of any sitting MPs.

    Murdoch Bullshit Methinks

    Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.
    Why dont they make up I mean print the list?
    The next twelve months will be a watershed for many moderate labour MP's

    A watershed ... or a tsunami.

    What number of Labour MPs do you expect to be deselected this year?

    There could be the makings of a bet here, though would need some clear criteria.
    I think it is hard to call but if the ones named were the warfare in labour would rival Kinnocks battles against the hard left. It really is worrying and sad.

    It is the last thing the Country needs just now but beginning to look inevitable
    So none?

    Pretty much my thoughts. Possibly Kate Joey, but even that Garage kiss are is probably safe.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    My moles tell me the Brexit three on the front of The Mail on Sunday are

    i) Andrew Mitchell
    ii) Peter Lilley
    iii) Andrew Lansley

    So no one with any actual influence then?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,986
    edited January 2018

    HYUFD said:

    Apparently Mogg has 100 Tory MPs behind him to vote to end free movement and leave the single market on 31st March 2019 as soon as Brexit is completed. However May should still be able to get the 2 year transition period through, though she will probably have to rely on Labour, LD and SNP votes to do so

    I'm sure Corbyn can be relied upon not to bring the government down over Brexit...
    Corbyn might vote down the government even at the cost of no transition period, pro single market backbenchers like Umunna certainly would not, so on such a vote May could face a Mogg led revolt and Corbyn an Umunna led revolt but with most Tory MPs still backing a transition it should get through
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    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Foxy said:

    Oh I see the last sentence has a quote from Momentum saying they are not campaigning for the deselection of any sitting MPs.

    Murdoch Bullshit Methinks

    Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.
    Why dont they make up I mean print the list?
    The next twelve months will be a watershed for many moderate labour MP's

    A watershed ... or a tsunami.

    What number of Labour MPs do you expect to be deselected this year?

    There could be the makings of a bet here, though would need some clear criteria.
    I would have thought the most likely deselection is actually a Corbynista, Jared O’Mara
  • Options
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Oh I see the last sentence has a quote from Momentum saying they are not campaigning for the deselection of any sitting MPs.

    Murdoch Bullshit Methinks

    Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.
    Why dont they make up I mean print the list?
    The next twelve months will be a watershed for many moderate labour MP's

    A watershed ... or a tsunami.

    What number of Labour MPs do you expect to be deselected this year?

    There could be the makings of a bet here, though would need some clear criteria.
    I think it is hard to call but if the ones named were the warfare in labour would rival Kinnocks battles against the hard left. It really is worrying and sad.

    It is the last thing the Country needs just now but beginning to look inevitable
    So none?

    Pretty much my thoughts. Possibly Kate Joey, but even that Garage kiss are is probably safe.
    I am not sure but I doubt it will be nil. Genuine labour supporters need to be careful they do not get complacent by thinking that they will act as a brake on Corbyn' excesses. He has come this far and I doubt the tens of thousands of his supporters will be satisfied until they achieve a Corbyn complaint party
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    Charles said:

    My moles tell me the Brexit three on the front of The Mail on Sunday are

    i) Andrew Mitchell
    ii) Peter Lilley
    iii) Andrew Lansley

    So no one with any actual influence then?
    I have read the story on line and it is nonsense. Pity journalists didn't have more important stories to write
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,055
    CBI calls for UK to stay in the customs union and abandon having its own trade deals

    https://www.ft.com/content/dc735ad4-fd3a-11e7-a492-2c9be7f3120a
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    Good night everyone
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,594

    Foxy said:

    Oh I see the last sentence has a quote from Momentum saying they are not campaigning for the deselection of any sitting MPs.

    Murdoch Bullshit Methinks

    Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.
    Why dont they make up I mean print the list?
    The next twelve months will be a watershed for many moderate labour MP's

    A watershed ... or a tsunami.

    What number of Labour MPs do you expect to be deselected this year?

    There could be the makings of a bet here, though would need some clear criteria.
    I would have thought the most likely deselection is actually a Corbynista, Jared O’Mara
    As he is suspended from the party, would that count as a deselection?

    But I agree, he is likely to be replaced, though his quietness does make me wonder if he is well.

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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,959

    Mike! Glad you & yours enjoyed your recent visit to Seattle & the Pacific Northwest. It's truly a remarkable part of the world. And am sure the weather made you feel at home. Just out of curiosity, what did you find (good and/or bad) that you least expected?

    Re: WA State politics, Democratic victory in key state senate special election last year means that Dems control Gov's office and both houses of legislature. Result for current legislative session is end to previous partisan log-jam. On Friday Gov. Jay Inslee signed state capital budget, huge deal for state, regional local infrastructure & projects. Dems are also moving number of election bills, for example same-day voter registration (allowing eligible citizens to register at the time the cast their ballot) and expanded ability to bring suit to redistrict local councils (such as federal suit that ended up redistricting Yakima, WA city council which resulted in first-ever election of Hispanics in town that's had a large Latino majority for some time.

    Current economic boom which is strong in Seattle area (& also WA burbs of Portland, OR) but spotty in rest of state is swelling state coffers. HOWEVER legislature is under state court order to find more funding for public education (the "paramount duty" of state government under the WA constitution) so fiscal picture is still unclear. Especially since most voters - particularly swing voters in swing districts - are currently allergic to taxes in general, though they will often support specific taxes such as local school levies. For some this is typical, but for others it's because they have NOT yet benefited enough, and do NOT yet have enough confidence in the economic upswing.

    In this year's mid-term elections all 98 state house seats are up, along with half of 49-seat state senate. So far all indications are that national AND statewide political climate will favor Dems. In only statewide partisan election, US Sen. Maria Cantwell has yet to draw any serious opposition from Rs or Ds and looks to be a lock for re-election. As for Congress & legislature, fact that redistricting must be done by partisan consensus in WA means that number of swing districts is quite limited. Most likely federal pickup for Dems is 8th CD where incumbent Dave Reichert is retiring, but this district is a VERY tough nut to crack, esp as third is pro-Trump rural turf.

    The bit I always find disturbing about Seattle is the large number of homeless/mentally ill/heroin addicts.

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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,959
    HYUFD said:

    Opposition to a transition deal from Jacob Rees-Mogg.
    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/954831169010495489

    Apparently Mogg has 100 Tory MPs behind him to vote to end free movement and leave the single market on 31st March 2019 as soon as Brexit is completed. However May should still be able to get the 2 year transition period through, though she will probably have to rely on Labour, LD and SNP votes to do so
    I think there's a very real risk that the Labour Party will not support the government on this - even the pro EU MPs. Why? Because they want power, and they want to embarrass the government. Putting my cynical hat on, a government defeat, followed by a chaotic exit from the EU (with no transition) would not be good for Sterling or the British economy.

    A recession is the best chance for Labour to get elected.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,331
    edited January 2018
    Foxy said:



    As he is suspended from the party, would that count as a deselection?

    But I agree, he is likely to be replaced, though his quietness does make me wonder if he is well.

    Yes, that's what I've thought too. The near-absence of press stories about his absence might also hint at that - the press do try to be relatively decent if a well-known figure is actually ill and nothing crucial is at stake. But he did say a couple of days ago that he was returning to work.

    Meanwhile, the latest German polls don't show the drop in social democrat votes reported by last week's polls - in fact the latest one, Emnid, shows everyone slightly up on the election, except for the FDP, who triggered the crisis by walking out of the talks.

    http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,055
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Opposition to a transition deal from Jacob Rees-Mogg.
    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/954831169010495489

    Apparently Mogg has 100 Tory MPs behind him to vote to end free movement and leave the single market on 31st March 2019 as soon as Brexit is completed. However May should still be able to get the 2 year transition period through, though she will probably have to rely on Labour, LD and SNP votes to do so
    I think there's a very real risk that the Labour Party will not support the government on this - even the pro EU MPs. Why? Because they want power, and they want to embarrass the government. Putting my cynical hat on, a government defeat, followed by a chaotic exit from the EU (with no transition) would not be good for Sterling or the British economy.

    A recession is the best chance for Labour to get elected.
    With your realist hat on, do you seriously think a government defeat leads to a no deal exit? This will all be unfolding this autumn, with months of political chaos between the defeat and the date when the treaties would cease to apply.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,986
    edited January 2018
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Opposition to a transition deal from Jacob Rees-Mogg.
    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/954831169010495489

    Apparently Mogg has 100 Tory MPs behind him to vote to end free movement and leave the single market on 31st March 2019 as soon as Brexit is completed. However May should still be able to get the 2 year transition period through, though she will probably have to rely on Labour, LD and SNP votes to do so
    I think there's a very real risk that the Labour Party will not support the government on this - even the pro EU MPs. Why? Because they want power, and they want to embarrass the government. Putting my cynical hat on, a government defeat, followed by a chaotic exit from the EU (with no transition) would not be good for Sterling or the British economy.

    A recession is the best chance for Labour to get elected.
    Well if Labour wants to take over the government of a Britain out of the EU, out of the single market and with no transition period nor FTA yet agreed, which is what would happen if they voted down the transition period and they got in as there would almost certainly be a general election, then be my guest. May would almost certainly go shortly after and PM Corbyn, leading a likely weak government without a working majority would be facing a vocal Tory opposition led by Boris or Rees-Mogg. However while Corbyn and McDonnell would join Rees Mogg in voting down a transition I highly doubt the likes of Umunna would, they want the transition to be permanent, no transition at all is the last thing they want!
  • Options
    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,287

    Foxy said:



    As he is suspended from the party, would that count as a deselection?

    But I agree, he is likely to be replaced, though his quietness does make me wonder if he is well.

    Yes, that's what I've thought too. The near-absence of press stories about his absence might also hint at that - the press do try to be relatively decent if a well-known figure is actually ill and nothing crucial is at stake. But he did say a couple of days ago that he was returning to work.
    Jared O'Mara DID vote in the Division on 3rd Reading of the EU Withdrawal Bill last Wednesday.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,962

    CBI calls for UK to stay in the customs union and abandon having its own trade deals

    https://www.ft.com/content/dc735ad4-fd3a-11e7-a492-2c9be7f3120a

    Remainers want to remain shock.
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Opposition to a transition deal from Jacob Rees-Mogg.
    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/954831169010495489

    Apparently Mogg has 100 Tory MPs behind him to vote to end free movement and leave the single market on 31st March 2019 as soon as Brexit is completed. However May should still be able to get the 2 year transition period through, though she will probably have to rely on Labour, LD and SNP votes to do so
    I think there's a very real risk that the Labour Party will not support the government on this - even the pro EU MPs. Why? Because they want power, and they want to embarrass the government. Putting my cynical hat on, a government defeat, followed by a chaotic exit from the EU (with no transition) would not be good for Sterling or the British economy.

    A recession is the best chance for Labour to get elected.
    All sounds very very far fetched to me.

    IF JRM has support of 100 MPs he should stand for leader.

    Corbyn doesn’t want a no deal Brexit - I doubt anyone in the Labour Party does. Corbyn would never be able to get a united Labour Party behind him on this issue - and Labour would rightly be blamed for the ensuing chaos.

    Labour’s best bet and most likely strategy would be to secure concessions from the govt on issues they care about.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,055
    RobD said:

    CBI calls for UK to stay in the customs union and abandon having its own trade deals

    https://www.ft.com/content/dc735ad4-fd3a-11e7-a492-2c9be7f3120a

    Remainers want to remain shock.
    The more distance you have from the UK, the more inevitable an exit from Brexit starts to look.

    https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star-columnists/2018/01/20/why-britain-is-pondering-an-exit-from-brexit.html
  • Options
    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,287
    edited January 2018
    It's surely inconceivable that 100 Con MPs would vote against the Government on an absolutely decisive vote (ie 2nd or 3rd Reading; not an amendment) on a Bill to implement actually leaving the EU.

    There may well be a significant number of rebels as we saw before Christmas on an amendment (though I can't imagine as many as 100 rebels) though surely not on an actually substantive Bill - where defeat would kill the Bill.

    For comparison, there were zero Con rebels at 3rd Reading of the EU Withdrawal Bill on Wednesday - despite the huge variation in opinions on Brexit.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,962

    RobD said:

    CBI calls for UK to stay in the customs union and abandon having its own trade deals

    https://www.ft.com/content/dc735ad4-fd3a-11e7-a492-2c9be7f3120a

    Remainers want to remain shock.
    The more distance you have from the UK, the more inevitable an exit from Brexit starts to look.

    https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star-columnists/2018/01/20/why-britain-is-pondering-an-exit-from-brexit.html
    Nothing in that article suggests it is inevitable, or that it is indeed going to happen at all.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,055
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    CBI calls for UK to stay in the customs union and abandon having its own trade deals

    https://www.ft.com/content/dc735ad4-fd3a-11e7-a492-2c9be7f3120a

    Remainers want to remain shock.
    The more distance you have from the UK, the more inevitable an exit from Brexit starts to look.

    https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star-columnists/2018/01/20/why-britain-is-pondering-an-exit-from-brexit.html
    Nothing in that article suggests it is inevitable, or that it is indeed going to happen at all.
    More to the point nothing suggests that we are powering ahead with Global Britain and taking advantage of unshackling ourselves from the failing EU. Brexit was sold as going 'out and into the world'. It hasn't worked.
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908
    MikeL said:

    It's surely inconceivable that 100 Con MPs would vote against the Government on an absolutely decisive vote (ie 2nd or 3rd Reading; not an amendment) on a Bill to implement actually leaving the EU.

    There may well be a significant number of rebels as we saw before Christmas on an amendment (though I can't imagine as many as 100 rebels) though surely not on an actually substantive Bill - where defeat would kill the Bill.

    For comparison, there were zero Con rebels at 3rd Reading of the EU Withdrawal Bill on Wednesday - despite the huge variation in opinions on Brexit.

    Completely agree - I think people are getting a bit carried away here.
    If they existed - thise 100 MPs could easily start a leadership challenge and probably overthrow TM.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,055
    Anti-Brexit rally in Canterbury yesterday - http://www.kentonline.co.uk/canterbury/news/anti-brexit-protest-takes-to-the-158825/

    @CarlottaVance - You'll notice there's no sign of Blair, Clegg or Adonis.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,962

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    CBI calls for UK to stay in the customs union and abandon having its own trade deals

    https://www.ft.com/content/dc735ad4-fd3a-11e7-a492-2c9be7f3120a

    Remainers want to remain shock.
    The more distance you have from the UK, the more inevitable an exit from Brexit starts to look.

    https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star-columnists/2018/01/20/why-britain-is-pondering-an-exit-from-brexit.html
    Nothing in that article suggests it is inevitable, or that it is indeed going to happen at all.
    More to the point nothing suggests that we are powering ahead with Global Britain and taking advantage of unshackling ourselves from the failing EU. Brexit was sold as going 'out and into the world'. It hasn't worked.
    Well we haven't left yet.....
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,055
    edited January 2018
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    CBI calls for UK to stay in the customs union and abandon having its own trade deals

    https://www.ft.com/content/dc735ad4-fd3a-11e7-a492-2c9be7f3120a

    Remainers want to remain shock.
    The more distance you have from the UK, the more inevitable an exit from Brexit starts to look.

    https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star-columnists/2018/01/20/why-britain-is-pondering-an-exit-from-brexit.html
    Nothing in that article suggests it is inevitable, or that it is indeed going to happen at all.
    More to the point nothing suggests that we are powering ahead with Global Britain and taking advantage of unshackling ourselves from the failing EU. Brexit was sold as going 'out and into the world'. It hasn't worked.
    Well we haven't left yet.....
    When the Berlin Wall fell, Germany hadn't been reunited yet but that was still the defining event. Brexit just isn't setting the world alight.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,962

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    CBI calls for UK to stay in the customs union and abandon having its own trade deals

    https://www.ft.com/content/dc735ad4-fd3a-11e7-a492-2c9be7f3120a

    Remainers want to remain shock.
    The more distance you have from the UK, the more inevitable an exit from Brexit starts to look.

    https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star-columnists/2018/01/20/why-britain-is-pondering-an-exit-from-brexit.html
    Nothing in that article suggests it is inevitable, or that it is indeed going to happen at all.
    More to the point nothing suggests that we are powering ahead with Global Britain and taking advantage of unshackling ourselves from the failing EU. Brexit was sold as going 'out and into the world'. It hasn't worked.
    Well we haven't left yet.....
    When the Berlin Wall fell, Germany hadn't been reunited yet but that was still the defining event. Brexit just isn't setting the world alight.
    It doesn't have to set the world alight, although I do like the analogy of breaking free from a much-maligned union. ;)
This discussion has been closed.