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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » There’s a good case for the man with NHS lapel badge

135

Comments

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    edited January 2018



    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:

    To understand JRMs position you need to regard Brexit as unwanted but necessary surgery.

    Except it was unnecessary but wanted by JRM and his fellow travellers. It is cosmetic in that sense.

    He wanted bigger tits, and we voted for them...
    No it was very necessary. It is a cancer that had been growing since 1973 and the longer we have left it the more difficult the surgery has become.
    Jeez what is it about Brexiters. Cancer, eh?
    Yep. An extremely good analogy.
    Is your mouth actually frothing while you are typing?

    Not at all. It is only the Eurofanatics like yourself who think the EU has been a force for good in Britain. You are the lunatic fringe with the green pencils.

    You've lost it to the point of you can't even manage the quoting system any more.

    You need a lie down.

    Edit: AARGH neither can I!
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    JRM: "The EU-funded CBI"

    I think he's losing it.

    He's right. The CBI takes a lot of EU money.
    So?
    Well he made a true statement, I don't see that he's losing it because of that.
    Member of public takes politician at face value shock. Well I think his intention was to imply that as a result it was batting for the EU, rather than British Industry.
    If he is then I think he's probably right. Though I imagine the CBI thinks it is doing both.
    Jeez you lot. What level of fear and loathing have you been living with these years to be so terrified of the all powerful EU? What a lack of confidence in the UK to hold its own amongst this cancer, and manipulator of our institutions.

    Amazing.

    (I appreciate you have f*cked off and are well out of it, but the Lincs branch of the Hiding Behind the Sofa Group are all a quiver today.)
    Some days, I feel very alone here. Whatever happens, life will go on in one of the world's richest countries in a time of unprecedented peace and prosperity. Who would want to live at any other time? Or in any other country?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    RobD said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    JRM: "The EU-funded CBI"

    I think he's losing it.

    He's right. The CBI takes a lot of EU money.
    So?
    Well he made a true statement, I don't see that he's losing it because of that.
    Member of public takes politician at face value shock. Well I think his intention was to imply that as a result it was batting for the EU, rather than British Industry.
    If he is then I think he's probably right. Though I imagine the CBI thinks it is doing both.
    Jeez you lot. What level of fear and loathing have you been living with these years to be so terrified of the all powerful EU? What a lack of confidence in the UK to hold its own amongst this cancer, and manipulator of our institutions.

    Amazing.

    (I appreciate you have f*cked off and are well out of it, but the Lincs branch of the Hiding Behind the Sofa Group are all a quiver today.)
    Because the EU is on a relentless march towards a single state.
    Maybe maybe not, although I'd be interested to know how you define state. But why should the Brexiters still be so unsure of themselves now and, prior to the vote, have so little confidence in their own country?
  • dixiedean said:

    On Hunts and Rudds and Mays watch

    You just couldn't make it up, Senior doctors from overseas who have been appointed to fill key roles in hospitals around the UK are being blocked from taking up their jobs by the Home Office because their NHS salaries are too low under immigration rules!

    It seems absurd and Rudd needs to get a grip
    It should be possible to get an NHS visa.

    There are I believe specific visa rules for Professional Footballers, so why not medics? Get a job offer from the NHS, get a visa - simples.
    Thus raising the question, why should NHS have special rules? Why not any other business or government agency?
    The fundamental problem is the arbitrary salary cap. Shortages need to be filled. We are at full employment already.
    The 'arbitrary salary cap' is the minimum NHS band payment! Table 9 here:

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration-rules/immigration-rules-appendix-j-codes-of-practice-for-skilled-work

    Cross check here if you don't believe me:

    http://www.nhsemployers.org/your-workforce/pay-and-reward/agenda-for-change/pay-scales/annual

    The story looks like garbage.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    edited January 2018
    John_M said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    JRM: "The EU-funded CBI"

    I think he's losing it.

    He's right. The CBI takes a lot of EU money.
    So?
    Well he made a true statement, I don't see that he's losing it because of that.
    Member of public takes politician at face value shock. Well I think his intention was to imply that as a result it was batting for the EU, rather than British Industry.
    If he is then I think he's probably right. Though I imagine the CBI thinks it is doing both.
    Jeez you lot. What level of fear and loathing have you been living with these years to be so terrified of the all powerful EU? What a lack of confidence in the UK to hold its own amongst this cancer, and manipulator of our institutions.

    Amazing.

    (I appreciate you have f*cked off and are well out of it, but the Lincs branch of the Hiding Behind the Sofa Group are all a quiver today.)
    Some days, I feel very alone here. Whatever happens, life will go on in one of the world's richest countries in a time of unprecedented peace and prosperity. Who would want to live at any other time? Or in any other country?
    1. Not me
    2. Ask Max, as he has decided to.

    Edit: don't feel alone - you're never alone on PB. Not while there's an AV thread in the offing.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    JRM: "The EU-funded CBI"

    I think he's losing it.

    He's right. The CBI takes a lot of EU money.
    So?
    Well he made a true statement, I don't see that he's losing it because of that.
    Member of public takes politician at face value shock. Well I think his intention was to imply that as a result it was batting for the EU, rather than British Industry.
    If he is then I think he's probably right. Though I imagine the CBI thinks it is doing both.
    Jeez you lot. What level of fear and loathing have you been living with these years to be so terrified of the all powerful EU? What a lack of confidence in the UK to hold its own amongst this cancer, and manipulator of our institutions.

    Amazing.

    (I appreciate you have f*cked off and are well out of it, but the Lincs branch of the Hiding Behind the Sofa Group are all a quiver today.)
    I didn't mean it perjoratively. The CBI probably thinks the best case for it's members is to stay in the single market so is making it. I hold nothing against them for making that case.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited January 2018
    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:


    The tooth fairy certainly exists. She came by our house last night to leave some money under my daughter's pillow

    Doesn't prove it was the tooth fairy, the whole thing could be an elaborate hoax perpetrated by Santa
    Well he does have to smooth out the seasonal peaks in his business model.

    I'm told that he recently bought the Easter Bunny franchise as well.
    Be afraid if he buys Halloween.

    He knows where you live.
    Hmmh... lots of sweets ... creates business for the Tooth Fairy.

    I can see the synergies...
    I have often wondered about children who at some point presumably are likely to believe in the following:

    1. Santa Claus
    2. The Tooth Fairy
    3. God

    It's interesting how and when they lose some and not others of such beliefs.
    you forgot

    4. attractive, slim, blonde lesbians

    :wink:
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    TOPPING said:

    RobD said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    JRM: "The EU-funded CBI"

    I think he's losing it.

    He's right. The CBI takes a lot of EU money.
    So?
    Well he made a true statement, I don't see that he's losing it because of that.
    Member of public takes politician at face value shock. Well I think his intention was to imply that as a result it was batting for the EU, rather than British Industry.
    If he is then I think he's probably right. Though I imagine the CBI thinks it is doing both.
    Jeez you lot. What level of fear and loathing have you been living with these years to be so terrified of the all powerful EU? What a lack of confidence in the UK to hold its own amongst this cancer, and manipulator of our institutions.

    Amazing.

    (I appreciate you have f*cked off and are well out of it, but the Lincs branch of the Hiding Behind the Sofa Group are all a quiver today.)
    Because the EU is on a relentless march towards a single state.
    Maybe maybe not, although I'd be interested to know how you define state. But why should the Brexiters still be so unsure of themselves now and, prior to the vote, have so little confidence in their own country?
    I'm sure that, if we had remained, we would have tried to scupper the federalists plots at every opportunity. But you can only do so much with QMV.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,961
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:


    The tooth fairy certainly exists. She came by our house last night to leave some money under my daughter's pillow

    Doesn't prove it was the tooth fairy, the whole thing could be an elaborate hoax perpetrated by Santa
    Well he does have to smooth out the seasonal peaks in his business model.

    I'm told that he recently bought the Easter Bunny franchise as well.
    Be afraid if he buys Halloween.

    He knows where you live.
    Hmmh... lots of sweets ... creates business for the Tooth Fairy.

    I can see the synergies...
    We are going to be distraught one day when the terrible truth dawns - they re already all owned by the same MegaCorp.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    JRM: "The EU-funded CBI"

    I think he's losing it.

    He's right. The CBI takes a lot of EU money.
    So?
    Well he made a true statement, I don't see that he's losing it because of that.
    Member of public takes politician at face value shock. Well I think his intention was to imply that as a result it was batting for the EU, rather than British Industry.
    If he is then I think he's probably right. Though I imagine the CBI thinks it is doing both.
    Jeez you lot. What level of fear and loathing have you been living with these years to be so terrified of the all powerful EU? What a lack of confidence in the UK to hold its own amongst this cancer, and manipulator of our institutions.

    Amazing.

    (I appreciate you have f*cked off and are well out of it, but the Lincs branch of the Hiding Behind the Sofa Group are all a quiver today.)
    I didn't mean it perjoratively. The CBI probably thinks the best case for it's members is to stay in the single market so is making it. I hold nothing against them for making that case.
    And how much of that conclusion was reached do you suppose because of its EU funding?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    RobD said:

    TOPPING said:

    RobD said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    JRM: "The EU-funded CBI"

    I think he's losing it.

    He's right. The CBI takes a lot of EU money.
    So?
    Well he made a true statement, I don't see that he's losing it because of that.
    Member of public takes politician at face value shock. Well I think his intention was to imply that as a result it was batting for the EU, rather than British Industry.
    If he is then I think he's probably right. Though I imagine the CBI thinks it is doing both.
    Jeez you lot. What level of fear and loathing have you been living with these years to be so terrified of the all powerful EU? What a lack of confidence in the UK to hold its own amongst this cancer, and manipulator of our institutions.

    Amazing.

    (I appreciate you have f*cked off and are well out of it, but the Lincs branch of the Hiding Behind the Sofa Group are all a quiver today.)
    Because the EU is on a relentless march towards a single state.
    Maybe maybe not, although I'd be interested to know how you define state. But why should the Brexiters still be so unsure of themselves now and, prior to the vote, have so little confidence in their own country?
    I'm sure that, if we had remained, we would have tried to scupper the federalists plots at every opportunity. But you can only do so much with QMV.
    D*v*'s d**l.

    Oh god it's deja vu all over again...
  • TOPPING said:

    RobD said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    JRM: "The EU-funded CBI"

    I think he's losing it.

    He's right. The CBI takes a lot of EU money.
    So?
    Well he made a true statement, I don't see that he's losing it because of that.
    Member of public takes politician at face value shock. Well I think his intention was to imply that as a result it was batting for the EU, rather than British Industry.
    If he is then I think he's probably right. Though I imagine the CBI thinks it is doing both.
    Jeez you lot. What level of fear and loathing have you been living with these years to be so terrified of the all powerful EU? What a lack of confidence in the UK to hold its own amongst this cancer, and manipulator of our institutions.

    Amazing.

    (I appreciate you have f*cked off and are well out of it, but the Lincs branch of the Hiding Behind the Sofa Group are all a quiver today.)
    Because the EU is on a relentless march towards a single state.
    Maybe maybe not, although I'd be interested to know how you define state. But why should the Brexiters still be so unsure of themselves now and, prior to the vote, have so little confidence in their own country?
    We have confidence in our country, which is why we want to remain our own country.

    I don't have as much confidence in the rest of Europe, which is why I don't want to hand the control of my country over to them.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,846
    edited January 2018
    TOPPING said:



    You've lost it to the point of you can't even manage the quoting system any more.

    You need a lie down.

    Edit: AARGH neither can I!

    LOL. I do at least have the excuse that I was trying to type whilst standing on a crowded bus.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,585
    RobD said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    JRM: "The EU-funded CBI"

    I think he's losing it.

    He's right. The CBI takes a lot of EU money.
    So?
    Well he made a true statement, I don't see that he's losing it because of that.
    Member of public takes politician at face value shock. Well I think his intention was to imply that as a result it was batting for the EU, rather than British Industry.
    If he is then I think he's probably right. Though I imagine the CBI thinks it is doing both.
    Jeez you lot. What level of fear and loathing have you been living with these years to be so terrified of the all powerful EU? What a lack of confidence in the UK to hold its own amongst this cancer, and manipulator of our institutions.

    Amazing.

    (I appreciate you have f*cked off and are well out of it, but the Lincs branch of the Hiding Behind the Sofa Group are all a quiver today.)
    Because the EU is on a relentless march towards a single state.
    If it is, then it's only because we're leaving.
  • TOPPING said:

    RobD said:

    TOPPING said:

    RobD said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    JRM: "The EU-funded CBI"

    I think he's losing it.

    He's right. The CBI takes a lot of EU money.
    So?
    Well he made a true statement, I don't see that he's losing it because of that.
    Member of public takes politician at face value shock. Well I think his intention was to imply that as a result it was batting for the EU, rather than British Industry.
    If he is then I think he's probably right. Though I imagine the CBI thinks it is doing both.
    Jeez you lot. What level of fear and loathing have you been living with these years to be so terrified of the all powerful EU? What a lack of confidence in the UK to hold its own amongst this cancer, and manipulator of our institutions.

    Amazing.

    (I appreciate you have f*cked off and are well out of it, but the Lincs branch of the Hiding Behind the Sofa Group are all a quiver today.)
    Because the EU is on a relentless march towards a single state.
    Maybe maybe not, although I'd be interested to know how you define state. But why should the Brexiters still be so unsure of themselves now and, prior to the vote, have so little confidence in their own country?
    I'm sure that, if we had remained, we would have tried to scupper the federalists plots at every opportunity. But you can only do so much with QMV.
    D*v*'s d**l.

    Oh god it's deja vu all over again...
    Dave's Deal did absolutely nothing to resolve QMV. The Eurozone has a QMV majority that meant they can unilaterally rewrite any law that is determined by QMV. Which post-Lisbon is almost everything.

    Do you not understand basic mathematics? With the Eurzone having a QMV power was not in our hands so we had to take it back.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789

    TOPPING said:

    RobD said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    JRM: "The EU-funded CBI"

    I think he's losing it.

    He's right. The CBI takes a lot of EU money.
    So?
    Well he made a true statement, I don't see that he's losing it because of that.
    Member of public takes politician at face value shock. Well I think his intention was to imply that as a result it was batting for the EU, rather than British Industry.
    If he is then I think he's probably right. Though I imagine the CBI thinks it is doing both.
    Jeez you lot. What level of fear and loathing have you been living with these years to be so terrified of the all powerful EU? What a lack of confidence in the UK to hold its own amongst this cancer, and manipulator of our institutions.

    Amazing.

    (I appreciate you have f*cked off and are well out of it, but the Lincs branch of the Hiding Behind the Sofa Group are all a quiver today.)
    Because the EU is on a relentless march towards a single state.
    Maybe maybe not, although I'd be interested to know how you define state. But why should the Brexiters still be so unsure of themselves now and, prior to the vote, have so little confidence in their own country?
    We have confidence in our country, which is why we want to remain our own country.

    I don't have as much confidence in the rest of Europe, which is why I don't want to hand the control of my country over to them.
    Take back control, and hand it to Arlene Foster.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    edited January 2018

    TOPPING said:



    You've lost it to the point of you can't even manage the quoting system any more.

    You need a lie down.

    Edit: AARGH neither can I!

    LOL. I do at least have the excuse that I was trying to type whilst standing on a crowded bus.
    And post Brexit British buses will be less busy so you will get a seat and be able to type better into your phone
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    TOPPING said:

    RobD said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    JRM: "The EU-funded CBI"

    I think he's losing it.

    He's right. The CBI takes a lot of EU money.
    So?
    Well he made a true statement, I don't see that he's losing it because of that.
    Member of public takes politician at face value shock. Well I think his intention was to imply that as a result it was batting for the EU, rather than British Industry.
    If he is then I think he's probably right. Though I imagine the CBI thinks it is doing both.
    Jeez you lot. What level of fear and loathing have you been living with these years to be so terrified of the all powerful EU? What a lack of confidence in the UK to hold its own amongst this cancer, and manipulator of our institutions.

    Amazing.

    (I appreciate you have f*cked off and are well out of it, but the Lincs branch of the Hiding Behind the Sofa Group are all a quiver today.)
    Because the EU is on a relentless march towards a single state.
    Maybe maybe not, although I'd be interested to know how you define state. But why should the Brexiters still be so unsure of themselves now and, prior to the vote, have so little confidence in their own country?
    We have confidence in our country, which is why we want to remain our own country.

    I don't have as much confidence in the rest of Europe, which is why I don't want to hand the control of my country over to them.
    When you emerge from behind the sofa you will notice that the Guard continues to be changed, we still lose at the cricket, substantially all our laws are made in SW1 and that we have always been sovereign.

    Why so scared of the nasty EU? I mean we have been talking about tooth fairies. Your (and your fellow Brexiters') fear of the EU can be similarly categorised, yet as the obverse: as childhood fears stemming from some kind of insecurity or unhappiness.
  • Nigelb said:

    RobD said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    JRM: "The EU-funded CBI"

    I think he's losing it.

    He's right. The CBI takes a lot of EU money.
    So?
    Well he made a true statement, I don't see that he's losing it because of that.
    Member of public takes politician at face value shock. Well I think his intention was to imply that as a result it was batting for the EU, rather than British Industry.
    If he is then I think he's probably right. Though I imagine the CBI thinks it is doing both.
    Jeez you lot. What level of fear and loathing have you been living with these years to be so terrified of the all powerful EU? What a lack of confidence in the UK to hold its own amongst this cancer, and manipulator of our institutions.

    Amazing.

    (I appreciate you have f*cked off and are well out of it, but the Lincs branch of the Hiding Behind the Sofa Group are all a quiver today.)
    Because the EU is on a relentless march towards a single state.
    If it is, then it's only because we're leaving.
    So getting rid of almost all of our vetoes in Lisbon and turning them into QMV decisions that the Eurozone have an inbuilt QMV majority over was because we were leaving?
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    Nigelb said:

    RobD said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    JRM: "The EU-funded CBI"

    I think he's losing it.

    He's right. The CBI takes a lot of EU money.
    So?
    Well he made a true statement, I don't see that he's losing it because of that.
    Member of public takes politician at face value shock. Well I think his intention was to imply that as a result it was batting for the EU, rather than British Industry.
    If he is then I think he's probably right. Though I imagine the CBI thinks it is doing both.
    Jeez you lot. What level of fear and loathing have you been living with these years to be so terrified of the all powerful EU? What a lack of confidence in the UK to hold its own amongst this cancer, and manipulator of our institutions.

    Amazing.

    (I appreciate you have f*cked off and are well out of it, but the Lincs branch of the Hiding Behind the Sofa Group are all a quiver today.)
    Because the EU is on a relentless march towards a single state.
    If it is, then it's only because we're leaving.
    Only the UK and Denmark have opt outs from joining the Euro. I think the direction of travel has to be towards integration. I don't see how the UK could do much about it, in or out. But these are old battles. The time is done, the song is over etc.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    TOPPING said:

    RobD said:

    TOPPING said:

    RobD said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    JRM: "The EU-funded CBI"

    I think he's losing it.

    He's right. The CBI takes a lot of EU money.
    So?
    Well he made a true statement, I don't see that he's losing it because of that.
    Member of public takes politician at face value shock. Well I think his intention was to imply that as a result it was batting for the EU, rather than British Industry.
    If he is then I think he's probably right. Though I imagine the CBI thinks it is doing both.
    Jeez you lot. What level of fear and loathing have you been living with these years to be so terrified of the all powerful EU? What a lack of confidence in the UK to hold its own amongst this cancer, and manipulator of our institutions.

    Amazing.

    (I appreciate you have f*cked off and are well out of it, but the Lincs branch of the Hiding Behind the Sofa Group are all a quiver today.)
    Because the EU is on a relentless march towards a single state.
    Maybe maybe not, although I'd be interested to know how you define state. But why should the Brexiters still be so unsure of themselves now and, prior to the vote, have so little confidence in their own country?
    I'm sure that, if we had remained, we would have tried to scupper the federalists plots at every opportunity. But you can only do so much with QMV.
    D*v*'s d**l.

    Oh god it's deja vu all over again...
    DIdn't that part of it require treaty change? Suspect the commission would have quietly shelved that particular idea.
  • Nigelb said:

    RobD said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    JRM: "The EU-funded CBI"

    I think he's losing it.

    He's right. The CBI takes a lot of EU money.
    So?
    Well he made a true statement, I don't see that he's losing it because of that.
    Member of public takes politician at face value shock. Well I think his intention was to imply that as a result it was batting for the EU, rather than British Industry.
    If he is then I think he's probably right. Though I imagine the CBI thinks it is doing both.
    Jeez you lot. What level of fear and loathing have you been living with these years to be so terrified of the all powerful EU? What a lack of confidence in the UK to hold its own amongst this cancer, and manipulator of our institutions.

    Amazing.

    (I appreciate you have f*cked off and are well out of it, but the Lincs branch of the Hiding Behind the Sofa Group are all a quiver today.)
    Because the EU is on a relentless march towards a single state.
    If it is, then it's only because we're leaving.
    Nope. It was already heading that way long before we voted.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    TOPPING said:



    You've lost it to the point of you can't even manage the quoting system any more.

    You need a lie down.

    Edit: AARGH neither can I!

    LOL. I do at least have the excuse that I was trying to type whilst standing on a crowded bus.
    Careful of low bridges.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    TOPPING said:

    RobD said:

    TOPPING said:

    RobD said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    JRM: "The EU-funded CBI"

    I think he's losing it.

    He's right. The CBI takes a lot of EU money.
    So?
    Well he made a true statement, I don't see that he's losing it because of that.
    Member of public takes politician at face value shock. Well I think his intention was to imply that as a result it was batting for the EU, rather than British Industry.
    If he is then I think he's probably right. Though I imagine the CBI thinks it is doing both.
    Jeez you lot. What level of fear and loathing have you been living with these years to be so terrified of the all powerful EU? What a lack of confidence in the UK to hold its own amongst this cancer, and manipulator of our institutions.

    Amazing.

    (I appreciate you have f*cked off and are well out of it, but the Lincs branch of the Hiding Behind the Sofa Group are all a quiver today.)
    Because the EU is on a relentless march towards a single state.
    Maybe maybe not, although I'd be interested to know how you define state. But why should the Brexiters still be so unsure of themselves now and, prior to the vote, have so little confidence in their own country?
    I'm sure that, if we had remained, we would have tried to scupper the federalists plots at every opportunity. But you can only do so much with QMV.
    D*v*'s d**l.

    Oh god it's deja vu all over again...
    Dave's Deal did absolutely nothing to resolve QMV. The Eurozone has a QMV majority that meant they can unilaterally rewrite any law that is determined by QMV. Which post-Lisbon is almost everything.

    Do you not understand basic mathematics? With the Eurzone having a QMV power was not in our hands so we had to take it back.
    Yawn. All we needed to do was say "that's ever closer union" and not take part (eg. Fiscal Compact).
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited January 2018
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    RobD said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    JRM: "The EU-funded CBI"

    I think he's losing it.

    He's right. The CBI takes a lot of EU money.
    So?
    Well he made a true statement, I don't see that he's losing it because of that.
    Member of public takes politician at face value shock. Well I think his intention was to imply that as a result it was batting for the EU, rather than British Industry.
    If he is then I think he's probably right. Though I imagine the CBI thinks it is doing both.
    Jeez you lot. What level of fear and loathing have you been living with these years to be so terrified of the all powerful EU? What a lack of confidence in the UK to hold its own amongst this cancer, and manipulator of our institutions.

    Amazing.

    (I appreciate you have f*cked off and are well out of it, but the Lincs branch of the Hiding Behind the Sofa Group are all a quiver today.)
    Because the EU is on a relentless march towards a single state.
    Maybe maybe not, although I'd be interested to know how you define state. But why should the Brexiters still be so unsure of themselves now and, prior to the vote, have so little confidence in their own country?
    We have confidence in our country, which is why we want to remain our own country.

    I don't have as much confidence in the rest of Europe, which is why I don't want to hand the control of my country over to them.
    When you emerge from behind the sofa you will notice that the Guard continues to be changed, we still lose at the cricket, substantially all our laws are made in SW1 and that we have always been sovereign.

    Why so scared of the nasty EU? I mean we have been talking about tooth fairies. Your (and your fellow Brexiters') fear of the EU can be similarly categorised, yet as the obverse: as childhood fears stemming from some kind of insecurity or unhappiness.
    I'm not afraid, I just understand it and I understand history.

    The EU had sovereign power to write laws on a vast array of areas via QMV that meant laws could be passed even if we opposed them. That is not acceptable to me. If it is to you, so be it.

    Why are you so afraid of our country writing our laws instead of other countries writing them?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789

    Nigelb said:

    RobD said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    JRM: "The EU-funded CBI"

    I think he's losing it.

    He's right. The CBI takes a lot of EU money.
    So?
    Well he made a true statement, I don't see that he's losing it because of that.
    Member of public takes politician at face value shock. Well I think his intention was to imply that as a result it was batting for the EU, rather than British Industry.
    If he is then I think he's probably right. Though I imagine the CBI thinks it is doing both.
    Jeez you lot. What level of fear and loathing have you been living with these years to be so terrified of the all powerful EU? What a lack of confidence in the UK to hold its own amongst this cancer, and manipulator of our institutions.

    Amazing.

    (I appreciate you have f*cked off and are well out of it, but the Lincs branch of the Hiding Behind the Sofa Group are all a quiver today.)
    Because the EU is on a relentless march towards a single state.
    If it is, then it's only because we're leaving.
    So getting rid of almost all of our vetoes in Lisbon and turning them into QMV decisions that the Eurozone have an inbuilt QMV majority over was because we were leaving?
    How many vetoes will we have over the Eurozone after we leave?
  • TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    RobD said:

    TOPPING said:

    RobD said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    JRM: "The EU-funded CBI"

    I think he's losing it.

    He's right. The CBI takes a lot of EU money.
    So?
    Well he made a true statement, I don't see that he's losing it because of that.
    Member of public takes politician at face value shock. Well I think his intention was to imply that as a result it was batting for the EU, rather than British Industry.
    If he is then I think he's probably right. Though I imagine the CBI thinks it is doing both.
    Jeez you lot. What level of fear and loathing have you been living with these years to be so terrified of the all powerful EU? What a lack of confidence in the UK to hold its own amongst this cancer, and manipulator of our institutions.

    Amazing.

    (I appreciate you have f*cked off and are well out of it, but the Lincs branch of the Hiding Behind the Sofa Group are all a quiver today.)
    Because the EU is on a relentless march towards a single state.
    Maybe maybe not, although I'd be interested to know how you define state. But why should the Brexiters still be so unsure of themselves now and, prior to the vote, have so little confidence in their own country?
    I'm sure that, if we had remained, we would have tried to scupper the federalists plots at every opportunity. But you can only do so much with QMV.
    D*v*'s d**l.

    Oh god it's deja vu all over again...
    Dave's Deal did absolutely nothing to resolve QMV. The Eurozone has a QMV majority that meant they can unilaterally rewrite any law that is determined by QMV. Which post-Lisbon is almost everything.

    Do you not understand basic mathematics? With the Eurzone having a QMV power was not in our hands so we had to take it back.
    Yawn. All we needed to do was say "that's ever closer union" and not take part (eg. Fiscal Compact).
    No we didn't, not if it was something that Lisbon said was to be determined by QMV. Have a look at what post-Lisbon is QMV.
  • Nigelb said:

    RobD said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    JRM: "The EU-funded CBI"

    I think he's losing it.

    He's right. The CBI takes a lot of EU money.
    So?
    Well he made a true statement, I don't see that he's losing it because of that.
    Member of public takes politician at face value shock. Well I think his intention was to imply that as a result it was batting for the EU, rather than British Industry.
    If he is then I think he's probably right. Though I imagine the CBI thinks it is doing both.
    Jeez you lot. What level of fear and loathing have you been living with these years to be so terrified of the all powerful EU? What a lack of confidence in the UK to hold its own amongst this cancer, and manipulator of our institutions.

    Amazing.

    (I appreciate you have f*cked off and are well out of it, but the Lincs branch of the Hiding Behind the Sofa Group are all a quiver today.)
    Because the EU is on a relentless march towards a single state.
    If it is, then it's only because we're leaving.
    So getting rid of almost all of our vetoes in Lisbon and turning them into QMV decisions that the Eurozone have an inbuilt QMV majority over was because we were leaving?
    How many vetoes will we have over the Eurozone after we leave?
    None, but nor will we be implementing their laws either. Westminster will write our laws and if we don't like what they're doing we can elect someone else.

    It's called democracy. You'll get used to it.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    edited January 2018

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    RobD said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    JRM: "The EU-funded CBI"

    I think he's losing it.

    He's right. The CBI takes a lot of EU money.
    So?
    Well he made a true statement, I don't see that he's losing it because of that.
    Member of public takes politician at face value shock. Well I think his intention was to imply that as a result it was batting for the EU, rather than British Industry.
    If he is then I think he's probably right. Though I imagine the CBI thinks it is doing both.
    Jeez you lot. What level of fear and loathing have you been living with these years to be so terrified of the all powerful EU? What a lack of confidence in the UK to hold its own amongst this cancer, and manipulator of our institutions.

    Amazing.

    (I appreciate you have f*cked off and are well out of it, but the Lincs branch of the Hiding Behind the Sofa Group are all a quiver today.)
    Because the EU is on a relentless march towards a single state.
    Maybe maybe not, although I'd be interested to know how you define state. But why should the Brexiters still be so unsure of themselves now and, prior to the vote, have so little confidence in their own country?
    We have confidence in our country, which is why we want to remain our own country.

    I don't have as much confidence in the rest of Europe, which is why I don't want to hand the control of my country over to them.
    Whess.
    I'm not afraid, I just understand it and I understand history.

    The EU had sovereign power to write laws on a vast array of areas via QMV that meant laws could be passed even if we opposed them. That is not acceptable to me. If it is to you, so be it.

    Why are you so afraid of our country writing our laws instead of other countries writing them?
    We were always sovereign. Of course if you are worried, scared, insecure, or perhaps just a moron, it might not have seemed like that. But we were.

    And the laws that are passed are those of a club that we had decided to join and helped to craft.

    But as @John_M notes - these are old battles. You won the war. It's why I am so bemused by the terrified and desperate tone of most of the Brexiter posts.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,840

    dixiedean said:

    On Hunts and Rudds and Mays watch

    You just couldn't make it up, Senior doctors from overseas who have been appointed to fill key roles in hospitals around the UK are being blocked from taking up their jobs by the Home Office because their NHS salaries are too low under immigration rules!

    It seems absurd and Rudd needs to get a grip
    It should be possible to get an NHS visa.

    There are I believe specific visa rules for Professional Footballers, so why not medics? Get a job offer from the NHS, get a visa - simples.
    Thus raising the question, why should NHS have special rules? Why not any other business or government agency?
    The fundamental problem is the arbitrary salary cap. Shortages need to be filled. We are at full employment already.
    The 'arbitrary salary cap' is the minimum NHS band payment! Table 9 here:

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration-rules/immigration-rules-appendix-j-codes-of-practice-for-skilled-work

    Cross check here if you don't believe me:

    http://www.nhsemployers.org/your-workforce/pay-and-reward/agenda-for-change/pay-scales/annual

    The story looks like garbage.
    Was not disputing the veracity or otherwise of this story. Merely expressing my disagreement with salary levels as the basis for the issuing or not of work permits.
    They should be issued on the basis of need.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,973
    Having just checked my phone after a 2 hour meeting, it seems the tory civil war on brexit is now underway. Politics about to be turbo charged again?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    John_M said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    JRM: "The EU-funded CBI"

    I think he's losing it.

    He's right. The CBI takes a lot of EU money.
    So?
    Well he made a true statement, I don't see that he's losing it because of that.
    Member of public takes politician at face value shock. Well I think his intention was to imply that as a result it was batting for the EU, rather than British Industry.
    If he is then I think he's probably right. Though I imagine the CBI thinks it is doing both.
    Jeez you lot. What level of fear and loathing have you been living with these years to be so terrified of the all powerful EU? What a lack of confidence in the UK to hold its own amongst this cancer, and manipulator of our institutions.

    Amazing.

    (I appreciate you have f*cked off and are well out of it, but the Lincs branch of the Hiding Behind the Sofa Group are all a quiver today.)
    Some days, I feel very alone here. Whatever happens, life will go on in one of the world's richest countries in a time of unprecedented peace and prosperity. Who would want to live at any other time? Or in any other country?
    The early 1700s would have been pretty good too. Been all downhill since then
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited January 2018
    dixiedean said:

    Was not disputing the veracity or otherwise of this story. Merely expressing my disagreement with salary levels as the basis for the issuing or not of work permits.
    They should be issued on the basis of need.

    As regards doctors, they are. Salary levels are irrelevant, because the NHS will always pay a salary within the appropriate band.
  • TOPPING said:

    We were always sovereign. Of course if you are worried, scared, insecure, or perhaps just a moron, it might not have seemed like that. But we were.

    And the laws that are passed are those of a club that we had decided to join and helped to craft.

    But as @John_M notes - these are old battles. You won the war. It's why I am so bemused by the terrified and desperate tone of most of the Brexiter posts.

    We were only sovereign to the extent that we had delegated our sovereignty to Brussels and were unable to exercise our sovereignty for as long as we had delegated it - but reserved the right to retrieve it at any time.

    I voted to retrieve our sovereignty so that we could exercise it ourselves and not have others exercise it on our behalf. I fail to see what petrifies you about us exercising our own sovereignty rather than delegating it to Brussels.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    edited January 2018

    TOPPING said:

    We were always sovereign. Of course if you are worried, scared, insecure, or perhaps just a moron, it might not have seemed like that. But we were.

    And the laws that are passed are those of a club that we had decided to join and helped to craft.

    But as @John_M notes - these are old battles. You won the war. It's why I am so bemused by the terrified and desperate tone of most of the Brexiter posts.

    We were only sovereign to the extent that we had delegated our sovereignty to Brussels and were unable to exercise our sovereignty for as long as we had delegated it - but reserved the right to retrieve it at any time.

    I voted to retrieve our sovereignty so that we could exercise it ourselves and not have others exercise it on our behalf. I fail to see what petrifies you about us exercising our own sovereignty rather than delegating it to Brussels.
    I was only not allowed to wear jeans and a t-shirt to my club because I had delegated the rules for that club to the committee. But I could resign at any time.

    So I decided to resign from the club so I can wear jeans and a t-shirt any god damn time I want. But not, sadly, in my club, which is a shame as it is very agreeable.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,094
    Nigelb said:

    RobD said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    JRM: "The EU-funded CBI"

    I think he's losing it.

    He's right. The CBI takes a lot of EU money.
    So?
    Well he made a true statement, I don't see that he's losing it because of that.
    Member of public takes politician at face value shock. Well I think his intention was to imply that as a result it was batting for the EU, rather than British Industry.
    If he is then I think he's probably right. Though I imagine the CBI thinks it is doing both.
    Jeez you lot. What level of fear and loathing have you been living with these years to be so terrified of the all powerful EU? What a lack of confidence in the UK to hold its own amongst this cancer, and manipulator of our institutions.

    Amazing.

    (I appreciate you have f*cked off and are well out of it, but the Lincs branch of the Hiding Behind the Sofa Group are all a quiver today.)
    Because the EU is on a relentless march towards a single state.
    If it is, then it's only because we're leaving.
    Our blind spot is actually the absence of meaningful local government, with real powers and independence protected by the constitutional settlement as is the case in most other countries. By contrast the UK has become accustomed to a heavily centralised state that can ride roughshod over most decisions taken at regional or local level, meddle with their powers, re-organise or abolish whichever other parts of government according to its whim. So the idea of "a state" that holds all the power looms larger for us.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    It seems that today is another day for pissing in the water under the bridge.
  • TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    We were always sovereign. Of course if you are worried, scared, insecure, or perhaps just a moron, it might not have seemed like that. But we were.

    And the laws that are passed are those of a club that we had decided to join and helped to craft.

    But as @John_M notes - these are old battles. You won the war. It's why I am so bemused by the terrified and desperate tone of most of the Brexiter posts.

    We were only sovereign to the extent that we had delegated our sovereignty to Brussels and were unable to exercise our sovereignty for as long as we had delegated it - but reserved the right to retrieve it at any time.

    I voted to retrieve our sovereignty so that we could exercise it ourselves and not have others exercise it on our behalf. I fail to see what petrifies you about us exercising our own sovereignty rather than delegating it to Brussels.
    I was only not allowed to wear jeans and a t-shirt to my club because I had delegated the rules for that club to the committee. But I could resign at any time.

    So I decided to resign from the club so I can wear jeans and a t-shirt any god damn time I want. But not, sadly, in my club, which is a shame as it is very agreeable.
    The difference is we didn't find the club all that agreeable. And the rules were becoming more stifling all the time.
  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,429
    Charles said:

    John_M said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    JRM: "The EU-funded CBI"

    I think he's losing it.

    He's right. The CBI takes a lot of EU money.
    So?
    Well he made a true statement, I don't see that he's losing it because of that.
    Member of public takes politician at face value shock. Well I think his intention was to imply that as a result it was batting for the EU, rather than British Industry.
    If he is then I think he's probably right. Though I imagine the CBI thinks it is doing both.
    Jeez you lot. What level of fear and loathing have you been living with these years to be so terrified of the all powerful EU? What a lack of confidence in the UK to hold its own amongst this cancer, and manipulator of our institutions.

    Amazing.

    (I appreciate you have f*cked off and are well out of it, but the Lincs branch of the Hiding Behind the Sofa Group are all a quiver today.)
    Some days, I feel very alone here. Whatever happens, life will go on in one of the world's richest countries in a time of unprecedented peace and prosperity. Who would want to live at any other time? Or in any other country?
    The early 1700s would have been pretty good too. Been all downhill since then
    For the Churchill family?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    We were always sovereign. Of course if you are worried, scared, insecure, or perhaps just a moron, it might not have seemed like that. But we were.

    And the laws that are passed are those of a club that we had decided to join and helped to craft.

    But as @John_M notes - these are old battles. You won the war. It's why I am so bemused by the terrified and desperate tone of most of the Brexiter posts.

    We were only sovereign to the extent that we had delegated our sovereignty to Brussels and were unable to exercise our sovereignty for as long as we had delegated it - but reserved the right to retrieve it at any time.

    I voted to retrieve our sovereignty so that we could exercise it ourselves and not have others exercise it on our behalf. I fail to see what petrifies you about us exercising our own sovereignty rather than delegating it to Brussels.
    I was only not allowed to wear jeans and a t-shirt to my club because I had delegated the rules for that club to the committee. But I could resign at any time.

    So I decided to resign from the club so I can wear jeans and a t-shirt any god damn time I want. But not, sadly, in my club, which is a shame as it is very agreeable.
    The difference is we didn't find the club all that agreeable. And the rules were becoming more stifling all the time.
    Much nicer in All Bar One, I agree.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,585
    Charles said:

    John_M said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    JRM: "The EU-funded CBI"

    I think he's losing it.

    He's right. The CBI takes a lot of EU money.
    So?
    Well he made a true statement, I don't see that he's losing it because of that.
    Member of public takes politician at face value shock. Well I think his intention was to imply that as a result it was batting for the EU, rather than British Industry.
    If he is then I think he's probably right. Though I imagine the CBI thinks it is doing both.
    Jeez you lot. What level of fear and loathing have you been living with these years to be so terrified of the all powerful EU? What a lack of confidence in the UK to hold its own amongst this cancer, and manipulator of our institutions.

    Amazing.

    (I appreciate you have f*cked off and are well out of it, but the Lincs branch of the Hiding Behind the Sofa Group are all a quiver today.)
    Some days, I feel very alone here. Whatever happens, life will go on in one of the world's richest countries in a time of unprecedented peace and prosperity. Who would want to live at any other time? Or in any other country?
    The early 1700s would have been pretty good too. Been all downhill since then
    That just your family ?
    :smile:
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    We were always sovereign. Of course if you are worried, scared, insecure, or perhaps just a moron, it might not have seemed like that. But we were.

    And the laws that are passed are those of a club that we had decided to join and helped to craft.

    But as @John_M notes - these are old battles. You won the war. It's why I am so bemused by the terrified and desperate tone of most of the Brexiter posts.

    We were only sovereign to the extent that we had delegated our sovereignty to Brussels and were unable to exercise our sovereignty for as long as we had delegated it - but reserved the right to retrieve it at any time.

    I voted to retrieve our sovereignty so that we could exercise it ourselves and not have others exercise it on our behalf. I fail to see what petrifies you about us exercising our own sovereignty rather than delegating it to Brussels.
    I was only not allowed to wear jeans and a t-shirt to my club because I had delegated the rules for that club to the committee. But I could resign at any time.

    So I decided to resign from the club so I can wear jeans and a t-shirt any god damn time I want. But not, sadly, in my club, which is a shame as it is very agreeable.
    But if your club said that you could never wear jeans and a t-shirt regardless of whether you were on the premises or not?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    John_M said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    JRM: "The EU-funded CBI"

    I think he's losing it.

    He's right. The CBI takes a lot of EU money.
    So?
    Well he made a true statement, I don't see that he's losing it because of that.
    Member of public takes politician at face value shock. Well I think his intention was to imply that as a result it was batting for the EU, rather than British Industry.
    If he is then I think he's probably right. Though I imagine the CBI thinks it is doing both.
    Jeez you lot. What level of fear and loathing have you been living with these years to be so terrified of the all powerful EU? What a lack of confidence in the UK to hold its own amongst this cancer, and manipulator of our institutions.

    Amazing.

    (I appreciate you have f*cked off and are well out of it, but the Lincs branch of the Hiding Behind the Sofa Group are all a quiver today.)
    Some days, I feel very alone here. Whatever happens, life will go on in one of the world's richest countries in a time of unprecedented peace and prosperity. Who would want to live at any other time? Or in any other country?
    The early 1700s would have been pretty good too. Been all downhill since then
    For the Churchill family?
    My dad's family retired from public life after a fight with John Churchill! We won the first round, but then Anne went and died on us!
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited January 2018
    Nigelb said:

    Charles said:

    John_M said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    JRM: "The EU-funded CBI"

    I think he's losing it.

    He's right. The CBI takes a lot of EU money.
    So?
    Well he made a true statement, I don't see that he's losing it because of that.
    Member of public takes politician at face value shock. Well I think his intention was to imply that as a result it was batting for the EU, rather than British Industry.
    If he is then I think he's probably right. Though I imagine the CBI thinks it is doing both.
    Jeez you lot. What level of fear and loathing have you been living with these years to be so terrified of the all powerful EU? What a lack of confidence in the UK to hold its own amongst this cancer, and manipulator of our institutions.

    Amazing.

    (I appreciate you have f*cked off and are well out of it, but the Lincs branch of the Hiding Behind the Sofa Group are all a quiver today.)
    Some days, I feel very alone here. Whatever happens, life will go on in one of the world's richest countries in a time of unprecedented peace and prosperity. Who would want to live at any other time? Or in any other country?
    The early 1700s would have been pretty good too. Been all downhill since then
    That just your family ?
    :smile:
    :naughty:
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    We were always sovereign. Of course if you are worried, scared, insecure, or perhaps just a moron, it might not have seemed like that. But we were.

    And the laws that are passed are those of a club that we had decided to join and helped to craft.

    But as @John_M notes - these are old battles. You won the war. It's why I am so bemused by the terrified and desperate tone of most of the Brexiter posts.

    We were only sovereign to the extent that we had delegated our sovereignty to Brussels and were unable to exercise our sovereignty for as long as we had delegated it - but reserved the right to retrieve it at any time.

    I voted to retrieve our sovereignty so that we could exercise it ourselves and not have others exercise it on our behalf. I fail to see what petrifies you about us exercising our own sovereignty rather than delegating it to Brussels.
    I was only not allowed to wear jeans and a t-shirt to my club because I had delegated the rules for that club to the committee. But I could resign at any time.

    So I decided to resign from the club so I can wear jeans and a t-shirt any god damn time I want. But not, sadly, in my club, which is a shame as it is very agreeable.
    But if your club said that you could never wear jeans and a t-shirt regardless of whether you were on the premises or not?
    Luckily I negotiated a release whereby that rule didn't apply to me.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    I think this is probably the correct analysis of the recent briefings. Though if various MPs, from various factions, are sending in letters without coordinating, it could yet be brought to a head accidentally. But I doubt it.

    When your colleagues come for you, you don’t get a warning in the papers first. The first you know about it is that there’s a knife between your ribs. That experience leads me to this conclusion: when unhappy MPs tell journalists that their leader will face a coup at a named point in the future, that leader is not, in fact, in danger. The mere fact of saying such a thing to a journalist is a sign that there is not actually a grave threat. When there is a real mortal threat, you don’t brief about it in advance.

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/01/theresa-may-is-safe-at-least-for-now/
  • It seems that today is another day for pissing in the water under the bridge.

    Explain?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    We were always sovereign. Of course if you are worried, scared, insecure, or perhaps just a moron, it might not have seemed like that. But we were.

    And the laws that are passed are those of a club that we had decided to join and helped to craft.

    But as @John_M notes - these are old battles. You won the war. It's why I am so bemused by the terrified and desperate tone of most of the Brexiter posts.

    We were only sovereign to the extent that we had delegated our sovereignty to Brussels and were unable to exercise our sovereignty for as long as we had delegated it - but reserved the right to retrieve it at any time.

    I voted to retrieve our sovereignty so that we could exercise it ourselves and not have others exercise it on our behalf. I fail to see what petrifies you about us exercising our own sovereignty rather than delegating it to Brussels.
    I was only not allowed to wear jeans and a t-shirt to my club because I had delegated the rules for that club to the committee. But I could resign at any time.

    So I decided to resign from the club so I can wear jeans and a t-shirt any god damn time I want. But not, sadly, in my club, which is a shame as it is very agreeable.
    But if your club said that you could never wear jeans and a t-shirt regardless of whether you were on the premises or not?
    Luckily I negotiated a release whereby that rule didn't apply to me.
    Except that the committee (a) refused to change their rules and just told you to trust them and (b) formed a sub-committee (on which you were not represented) which then cast a majority block vote on matters of grave concern to you
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. B, Biden's still 34 to be next president on Ladbrokes.
  • Having just checked my phone after a 2 hour meeting, it seems the tory civil war on brexit is now underway. Politics about to be turbo charged again?


    Did you have voice mails from Conservative high ups with some news we should hear about?
  • TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    We were always sovereign. Of course if you are worried, scared, insecure, or perhaps just a moron, it might not have seemed like that. But we were.

    And the laws that are passed are those of a club that we had decided to join and helped to craft.

    But as @John_M notes - these are old battles. You won the war. It's why I am so bemused by the terrified and desperate tone of most of the Brexiter posts.

    We were only sovereign to the extent that we had delegated our sovereignty to Brussels and were unable to exercise our sovereignty for as long as we had delegated it - but reserved the right to retrieve it at any time.

    I voted to retrieve our sovereignty so that we could exercise it ourselves and not have others exercise it on our behalf. I fail to see what petrifies you about us exercising our own sovereignty rather than delegating it to Brussels.
    I was only not allowed to wear jeans and a t-shirt to my club because I had delegated the rules for that club to the committee. But I could resign at any time.

    So I decided to resign from the club so I can wear jeans and a t-shirt any god damn time I want. But not, sadly, in my club, which is a shame as it is very agreeable.
    But if your club said that you could never wear jeans and a t-shirt regardless of whether you were on the premises or not?
    Luckily I negotiated a release whereby that rule didn't apply to me.
    Except the UK didn't. We were still subject to all rules that were applicable via QMV even if it was for purely domestic purposes.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,585

    Mr. B, Biden's still 34 to be next president on Ladbrokes.

    Grab it. (IMO, FWIW & DYOR, etc.)
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,588
    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    We were always sovereign. Of course if you are worried, scared, insecure, or perhaps just a moron, it might not have seemed like that. But we were.

    And the laws that are passed are those of a club that we had decided to join and helped to craft.

    But as @John_M notes - these are old battles. You won the war. It's why I am so bemused by the terrified and desperate tone of most of the Brexiter posts.

    We were only sovereign to the extent that we had delegated our sovereignty to Brussels and were unable to exercise our sovereignty for as long as we had delegated it - but reserved the right to retrieve it at any time.

    I voted to retrieve our sovereignty so that we could exercise it ourselves and not have others exercise it on our behalf. I fail to see what petrifies you about us exercising our own sovereignty rather than delegating it to Brussels.
    I was only not allowed to wear jeans and a t-shirt to my club because I had delegated the rules for that club to the committee. But I could resign at any time.

    So I decided to resign from the club so I can wear jeans and a t-shirt any god damn time I want. But not, sadly, in my club, which is a shame as it is very agreeable.
    But if your club said that you could never wear jeans and a t-shirt regardless of whether you were on the premises or not?
    Luckily I negotiated a release whereby that rule didn't apply to me.
    I congratulate you on manfully batting on in the face of adversity. I lost the plot during the 'cancer' exchange. Which, was by the way, a really poor analogy. The debate has subsequently got even more obtuse.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. B, already backed him, it was for others thinking about backing Biden :)
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    A result if it's Canada+Financial services, surely?
  • volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    The problem with Hunt is his habit of hiding behind trees.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    JRM: "The EU-funded CBI"

    I think he's losing it.

    He's right. The CBI takes a lot of EU money.
    So?
    Well he made a true statement, I don't see that he's losing it because of that.
    Member of public takes politician at face value shock. Well I think his intention was to imply that as a result it was batting for the EU, rather than British Industry.
    If he is then I think he's probably right. Though I imagine the CBI thinks it is doing both.
    Jeez you lot. What level of fear and loathing have you been living with these years to be so terrified of the all powerful EU? What a lack of confidence in the UK to hold its own amongst this cancer, and manipulator of our institutions.

    Amazing.

    (I appreciate you have f*cked off and are well out of it, but the Lincs branch of the Hiding Behind the Sofa Group are all a quiver today.)
    I didn't mean it perjoratively. The CBI probably thinks the best case for it's members is to stay in the single market so is making it. I hold nothing against them for making that case.
    And how much of that conclusion was reached do you suppose because of its EU funding?
    Probably none, but there is a conflict of interest, at least enough for them to say at the begining of every report they write that they derive a percentage of their funding from the EU.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004
    edited January 2018
    Watching Trump in Davos he seems supremely confident, he has got the US econony flying with huge tax cuts (are you listening Corbyn/McDonnell), is demanding new free and fair trade deals, has told the Palestinians he will stop all US money going to them unless they agree to peace talks, and is more than likely coming to London this year.

    He may well yet confound his critics
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,585
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    It's hard to avoid the conclusion that Philip Hammond is seeking an early resolution of Theresa May's position.
  • TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    We were always sovereign. Of course if you are worried, scared, insecure, or perhaps just a moron, it might not have seemed like that. But we were.

    And the laws that are passed are those of a club that we had decided to join and helped to craft.

    But as @John_M notes - these are old battles. You won the war. It's why I am so bemused by the terrified and desperate tone of most of the Brexiter posts.

    We were only sovereign to the extent that we had delegated our sovereignty to Brussels and were unable to exercise our sovereignty for as long as we had delegated it - but reserved the right to retrieve it at any time.

    I voted to retrieve our sovereignty so that we could exercise it ourselves and not have others exercise it on our behalf. I fail to see what petrifies you about us exercising our own sovereignty rather than delegating it to Brussels.
    I was only not allowed to wear jeans and a t-shirt to my club because I had delegated the rules for that club to the committee. But I could resign at any time.

    So I decided to resign from the club so I can wear jeans and a t-shirt any god damn time I want. But not, sadly, in my club, which is a shame as it is very agreeable.
    But if your club said that you could never wear jeans and a t-shirt regardless of whether you were on the premises or not?
    Luckily I negotiated a release whereby that rule didn't apply to me.
    I congratulate you on manfully batting on in the face of adversity. I lost the plot during the 'cancer' exchange. Which, was by the way, a really poor analogy. The debate has subsequently got even more obtuse.
    Its an excellent analogy. It has eaten into the body politic of the UK, has caused irreparable damage to our democracy, our economy and the basic trust in Government. The longer we have suffered with it the more difficult it has become to remove and in the end it would have destroyed our country if we had not taken the radical step of cutting it out.

    That the Eurofanatics are in denial about this is no surprise. Nor is the fact that the rail against the diagnosis.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    Watching Trump in Davos he seems supremely confident, he has got the US econony flying with huge tax cuts (are you listening Corbyn/McDonnell), is demanding new free and fair trade deals, has told the Palestinians he will stop all US money going to them unless they agree to peace talks, and is more than likely coming to London this year.

    He may well yet confound his critics

    I want him to win again just to see the reaction. :D
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    edited January 2018
    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    We were always sovereign. Of course if you are worried, scared, insecure, or perhaps just a moron, it might not have seemed like that. But we were.

    And the laws that are passed are those of a club that we had decided to join and helped to craft.

    But as @John_M notes - these are old battles. You won the war. It's why I am so bemused by the terrified and desperate tone of most of the Brexiter posts.

    We were only sovereign to the extent that we had delegated our sovereignty to Brussels and were unable to exercise our sovereignty for as long as we had delegated it - but reserved the right to retrieve it at any time.

    I voted to retrieve our sovereignty so that we could exercise it ourselves and not have others exercise it on our behalf. I fail to see what petrifies you about us exercising our own sovereignty rather than delegating it to Brussels.
    I was only not allowed to wear jeans and a t-shirt to my club because I had delegated the rules for that club to the committee. But I could resign at any time.

    So I decided to resign from the club so I can wear jeans and a t-shirt any god damn time I want. But not, sadly, in my club, which is a shame as it is very agreeable.
    But if your club said that you could never wear jeans and a t-shirt regardless of whether you were on the premises or not?
    Luckily I negotiated a release whereby that rule didn't apply to me.
    Except that the committee (a) refused to change their rules and just told you to trust them and (b) formed a sub-committee (on which you were not represented) which then cast a majority block vote on matters of grave concern to you
    I don't care if they don't change their rules because I have my opt out.

    And it turns out that I am by right of membership guaranteed a seat on that sub committee.
  • RobD said:

    Watching Trump in Davos he seems supremely confident, he has got the US econony flying with huge tax cuts (are you listening Corbyn/McDonnell), is demanding new free and fair trade deals, has told the Palestinians he will stop all US money going to them unless they agree to peace talks, and is more than likely coming to London this year.

    He may well yet confound his critics

    I want him to win again just to see the reaction. :D
    It would be funny
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Watching Trump in Davos he seems supremely confident, he has got the US econony flying with huge tax cuts (are you listening Corbyn/McDonnell), is demanding new free and fair trade deals, has told the Palestinians he will stop all US money going to them unless they agree to peace talks, and is more than likely coming to London this year.

    He may well yet confound his critics

    And N and S Korea have kissed and made up. I agree: if you ignore everything he and anyone else has ever put on twitter, it doesn't look at all a bad record.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    We were always sovereign. Of course if you are worried, scared, insecure, or perhaps just a moron, it might not have seemed like that. But we were.

    And the laws that are passed are those of a club that we had decided to join and helped to craft.

    But as @John_M notes - these are old battles. You won the war. It's why I am so bemused by the terrified and desperate tone of most of the Brexiter posts.

    We were only sovereign to the extent that we had delegated our sovereignty to Brussels and were unable to exercise our sovereignty for as long as we had delegated it - but reserved the right to retrieve it at any time.

    I voted to retrieve our sovereignty so that we could exercise it ourselves and not have others exercise it on our behalf. I fail to see what petrifies you about us exercising our own sovereignty rather than delegating it to Brussels.
    I was only not allowed to wear jeans and a t-shirt to my club because I had delegated the rules for that club to the committee. But I could resign at any time.

    So I decided to resign from the club so I can wear jeans and a t-shirt any god damn time I want. But not, sadly, in my club, which is a shame as it is very agreeable.
    But if your club said that you could never wear jeans and a t-shirt regardless of whether you were on the premises or not?
    Luckily I negotiated a release whereby that rule didn't apply to me.
    I congratulate you on manfully batting on in the face of adversity. I lost the plot during the 'cancer' exchange. Which, was by the way, a really poor analogy. The debate has subsequently got even more obtuse.
    Its an excellent analogy. It has eaten into the body politic of the UK, has caused irreparable damage to our democracy, our economy and the basic trust in Government. The longer we have suffered with it the more difficult it has become to remove and in the end it would have destroyed our country if we had not taken the radical step of cutting it out.

    That the Eurofanatics are in denial about this is no surprise. Nor is the fact that the rail against the diagnosis.
    Always sovereign.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    We were always sovereign. Of course if you are worried, scared, insecure, or perhaps just a moron, it might not have seemed like that. But we were.

    And the laws that are passed are those of a club that we had decided to join and helped to craft.

    But as @John_M notes - these are old battles. You won the war. It's why I am so bemused by the terrified and desperate tone of most of the Brexiter posts.

    We were only sovereign to the extent that we had delegated our sovereignty to Brussels and were unable to exercise our sovereignty for as long as we had delegated it - but reserved the right to retrieve it at any time.

    I voted to retrieve our sovereignty so that we could exercise it ourselves and not have others exercise it on our behalf. I fail to see what petrifies you about us exercising our own sovereignty rather than delegating it to Brussels.
    I was only not allowed to wear jeans and a t-shirt to my club because I had delegated the rules for that club to the committee. But I could resign at any time.

    So I decided to resign from the club so I can wear jeans and a t-shirt any god damn time I want. But not, sadly, in my club, which is a shame as it is very agreeable.
    But if your club said that you could never wear jeans and a t-shirt regardless of whether you were on the premises or not?
    Luckily I negotiated a release whereby that rule didn't apply to me.
    Except that the committee (a) refused to change their rules and just told you to trust them and (b) formed a sub-committee (on which you were not represented) which then cast a majority block vote on matters of grave concern to you
    I don't care if they don't change their rules because I have my opt out.

    And it turns out that I am by right of membership guaranteed a seat on that sub committee.
    I thought that opt out had to be confirmed by treaty change?
  • Ishmael_Z said:

    Watching Trump in Davos he seems supremely confident, he has got the US econony flying with huge tax cuts (are you listening Corbyn/McDonnell), is demanding new free and fair trade deals, has told the Palestinians he will stop all US money going to them unless they agree to peace talks, and is more than likely coming to London this year.

    He may well yet confound his critics

    And N and S Korea have kissed and made up. I agree: if you ignore everything he and anyone else has ever put on twitter, it doesn't look at all a bad record.
    And the dollar at 1.43 and the euro at 1.14 are signs the markets have confidence on the UK (despite Brexit)
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    JRM: "The EU-funded CBI"

    I think he's losing it.

    He's right. The CBI takes a lot of EU money.
    So?
    Well he made a true statement, I don't see that he's losing it because of that.
    Member of public takes politician at face value shock. Well I think his intention was to imply that as a result it was batting for the EU, rather than British Industry.
    If he is then I think he's probably right. Though I imagine the CBI thinks it is doing both.
    Jeez you lot. What level of fear and loathing have you been living with these years to be so terrified of the all powerful EU? What a lack of confidence in the UK to hold its own amongst this cancer, and manipulator of our institutions.

    Amazing.

    (I appreciate you have f*cked off and are well out of it, but the Lincs branch of the Hiding Behind the Sofa Group are all a quiver today.)
    I didn't mean it perjoratively. The CBI probably thinks the best case for it's members is to stay in the single market so is making it. I hold nothing against them for making that case.
    And how much of that conclusion was reached do you suppose because of its EU funding?
    Probably none, but there is a conflict of interest, at least enough for them to say at the begining of every report they write that they derive a percentage of their funding from the EU.
    It's not a tournament. The CBI is charged with representing the interests of British business.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Didn't the CBI want us to join the single currency?

    Anybody daft enough to support that nonsense has to be considered dubious at best.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,585

    Watching Trump in Davos he seems supremely confident, he has got the US econony flying with huge tax cuts (are you listening Corbyn/McDonnell), is demanding new free and fair trade deals, has told the Palestinians he will stop all US money going to them unless they agree to peace talks, and is more than likely coming to London this year...

    I think, thus far, Janet Yellen deserves much of the credit for the economy. (And he declined to reappoint her.)
    Trump has not been in office long enough to have had a major economic impact either way; he inherited a pretty benign set of circumstance.

    As for the rest of it, we'll see.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Incidentally, having finished Marc Morris' The Norman Conquest, I can heartily recommend it. Begun re-reading Machiavelli's Discourses on Livy, which I last read about a decade and a half ago (PBers may find it interesting, as it's essentially concerned with sound governance).

    Anyway, time to perambulate with the dog.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,094
    edited January 2018
    May’s authority has been sapped by the loss of the government overall majority at last June’s election. She has never been able to make her idea of a country that works for everyone sing. And while she tried hard, she did not feel at ease in Davos and it showed.

    For May, the good news is that business doesn’t hate her. The bad news is that they pity her. For a prime minister, that’s worse.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    We were always sovereign. Of course if you are worried, scared, insecure, or perhaps just a moron, it might not have seemed like that. But we were.

    And the laws that are passed are those of a club that we had decided to join and helped to craft.

    But as @John_M notes - these are old battles. You won the war. It's why I am so bemused by the terrified and desperate tone of most of the Brexiter posts.

    We were only sovereign to the extent that we had delegated our sovereignty to Brussels and were unable to exercise our sovereignty for as long as we had delegated it - but reserved the right to retrieve it at any time.

    I voted to retrieve our sovereignty so that we could exercise it ourselves and not have others exercise it on our behalf. I fail to see what petrifies you about us exercising our own sovereignty rather than delegating it to Brussels.
    I was only not allowed to wear jeans and a t-shirt to my club because I had delegated the rules for that club to the committee. But I could resign at any time.

    So I decided to resign from the club so I can wear jeans and a t-shirt any god damn time I want. But not, sadly, in my club, which is a shame as it is very agreeable.
    But if your club said that you could never wear jeans and a t-shirt regardless of whether you were on the premises or not?
    Luckily I negotiated a release whereby that rule didn't apply to me.
    Except that the committee (a) refused to change their rules and just told you to trust them and (b) formed a sub-committee (on which you were not represented) which then cast a majority block vote on matters of grave concern to you
    I don't care if they don't change their rules because I have my opt out.

    And it turns out that I am by right of membership guaranteed a seat on that sub committee.
    So we attend the Eurozone pre-meets before each heads of government meeting? The ones where they agree how to vote?
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Watching Trump in Davos he seems supremely confident, he has got the US econony flying with huge tax cuts (are you listening Corbyn/McDonnell), is demanding new free and fair trade deals, has told the Palestinians he will stop all US money going to them unless they agree to peace talks, and is more than likely coming to London this year.

    He may well yet confound his critics

    And N and S Korea have kissed and made up. I agree: if you ignore everything he and anyone else has ever put on twitter, it doesn't look at all a bad record.
    And the dollar at 1.43 and the euro at 1.14 are signs the markets have confidence on the UK (despite Brexit)
    The euro at 1.14 is a sign of (vague) confidence. The dollar at 1.43 points more to something to do with the dollar....
  • TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    We were always sovereign. Of course if you are worried, scared, insecure, or perhaps just a moron, it might not have seemed like that. But we were.

    And the laws that are passed are those of a club that we had decided to join and helped to craft.

    But as @John_M notes - these are old battles. You won the war. It's why I am so bemused by the terrified and desperate tone of most of the Brexiter posts.

    We were only sovereign to the extent that we had delegated our sovereignty to Brussels and were unable to exercise our sovereignty for as long as we had delegated it - but reserved the right to retrieve it at any time.

    I voted to retrieve our sovereignty so that we could exercise it ourselves and not have others exercise it on our behalf. I fail to see what petrifies you about us exercising our own sovereignty rather than delegating it to Brussels.
    I was only not allowed to wear jeans and a t-shirt to my club because I had delegated the rules for that club to the committee. But I could resign at any time.

    So I decided to resign from the club so I can wear jeans and a t-shirt any god damn time I want. But not, sadly, in my club, which is a shame as it is very agreeable.
    But if your club said that you could never wear jeans and a t-shirt regardless of whether you were on the premises or not?
    Luckily I negotiated a release whereby that rule didn't apply to me.
    I congratulate you on manfully batting on in the face of adversity. I lost the plot during the 'cancer' exchange. Which, was by the way, a really poor analogy. The debate has subsequently got even more obtuse.
    Its an excellent analogy. It has eaten into the body politic of the UK, has caused irreparable damage to our democracy, our economy and the basic trust in Government. The longer we have suffered with it the more difficult it has become to remove and in the end it would have destroyed our country if we had not taken the radical step of cutting it out.

    That the Eurofanatics are in denial about this is no surprise. Nor is the fact that the rail against the diagnosis.
    Always sovereign.
    Given I made no mention at all today of Sovereignty that is clearly a straw man argument because you had no answer to my comment. Poor show old chap.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    IanB2 said:

    May’s authority has been sapped by the loss of the government overall majority at last June’s election. She has never been able to make her idea of a country that works for everyone sing. And while she tried hard, she did not feel at ease in Davos and it showed.

    For May, the good news is that business doesn’t hate her. The bad news is that they pity her. For a prime minister, that’s worse.

    Is this a quote? The use of italics suggest it is, but there's no source.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,588

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    We were always sovereign. Of course if you are worried, scared, insecure, or perhaps just a moron, it might not have seemed like that. But we were.

    And the laws that are passed are those of a club that we had decided to join and helped to craft.

    But as @John_M notes - these are old battles. You won the war. It's why I am so bemused by the terrified and desperate tone of most of the Brexiter posts.

    We were only sovereign to the extent that we had delegated our sovereignty to Brussels and were unable to exercise our sovereignty for as long as we had delegated it - but reserved the right to retrieve it at any time.

    I voted to retrieve our sovereignty so that we could exercise it ourselves and not have others exercise it on our behalf. I fail to see what petrifies you about us exercising our own sovereignty rather than delegating it to Brussels.
    I was only not allowed to wear jeans and a t-shirt to my club because I had delegated the rules for that club to the committee. But I could resign at any time.

    So I decided to resign from the club so I can wear jeans and a t-shirt any god damn time I want. But not, sadly, in my club, which is a shame as it is very agreeable.
    But if your club said that you could never wear jeans and a t-shirt regardless of whether you were on the premises or not?
    Luckily I negotiated a release whereby that rule didn't apply to me.
    I congratulate you on manfully batting on in the face of adversity. I lost the plot during the 'cancer' exchange. Which, was by the way, a really poor analogy. The debate has subsequently got even more obtuse.
    Its an excellent analogy. It has eaten into the body politic of the UK, has caused irreparable damage to our democracy, our economy and the basic trust in Government. The longer we have suffered with it the more difficult it has become to remove and in the end it would have destroyed our country if we had not taken the radical step of cutting it out.

    That the Eurofanatics are in denial about this is no surprise. Nor is the fact that the rail against the diagnosis.
    To me it is a crap analogy to you it is genius. To me Brexit is an act of economic vandalism, to you it is freedom from oppression.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    We were always sovereign. Of course if you are worried, scared, insecure, or perhaps just a moron, it might not have seemed like that. But we were.

    And the laws that are passed are those of a club that we had decided to join and helped to craft.

    But as @John_M notes - these are old battles. You won the war. It's why I am so bemused by the terrified and desperate tone of most of the Brexiter posts.

    We were only sovereign to the extent that we had delegated our sovereignty to Brussels and were unable to exercise our sovereignty for as long as we had delegated it - but reserved the right to retrieve it at any time.

    I voted to retrieve our sovereignty so that we could exercise it ourselves and not have others exercise it on our behalf. I fail to see what petrifies you about us exercising our own sovereignty rather than delegating it to Brussels.
    I was only not allowed to wear jeans and a t-shirt to my club because I had delegated the rules for that club to the committee. But I could resign at any time.

    So I decided to resign from the club so I can wear jeans and a t-shirt any god damn time I want. But not, sadly, in my club, which is a shame as it is very agreeable.
    But if your club said that you could never wear jeans and a t-shirt regardless of whether you were on the premises or not?
    Luckily I negotiated a release whereby that rule didn't apply to me.
    Except that the committee (a) refused to change their rules and just told you to trust them and (b) formed a sub-committee (on which you were not represented) which then cast a majority block vote on matters of grave concern to you
    I don't care if they don't change their rules because I have my opt out.

    And it turns out that I am by right of membership guaranteed a seat on that sub committee.
    So we attend the Eurozone pre-meets before each heads of government meeting? The ones where they agree how to vote?
    The eurozone doesn't bother me in the slightest. Let them do what they want.

    I would meanwhile have liked to have been on the MiFID III steering committee.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    We were always sovereign. Of course if you are worried, scared, insecure, or perhaps just a moron, it might not have seemed like that. But we were.

    And the laws that are passed are those of a club that we had decided to join and helped to craft.

    But as @John_M notes - these are old battles. You won the war. It's why I am so bemused by the terrified and desperate tone of most of the Brexiter posts.

    We were only sovereign to the extent that we had delegated our sovereignty to Brussels and were unable to exercise our sovereignty for as long as we had delegated it - but reserved the right to retrieve it at any time.

    I voted to retrieve our sovereignty so that we could exercise it ourselves and not have others exercise it on our behalf. I fail to see what petrifies you about us exercising our own sovereignty rather than delegating it to Brussels.
    I was only not allowed to wear jeans and a t-shirt to my club because I had delegated the rules for that club to the committee. But I could resign at any time.

    So I decided to resign from the club so I can wear jeans and a t-shirt any god damn time I want. But not, sadly, in my club, which is a shame as it is very agreeable.
    But if your club said that you could never wear jeans and a t-shirt regardless of whether you were on the premises or not?
    Luckily I negotiated a release whereby that rule didn't apply to me.
    I congratulate you on manfully batting on in the face of adversity. I lost the plot during the 'cancer' exchange. Which, was by the way, a really poor analogy. The debate has subsequently got even more obtuse.
    Its an excellent analogy. It has eaten into the body politic of the UK, has caused irreparable damage to our democracy, our economy and the basic trust in Government. The longer we have suffered with it the more difficult it has become to remove and in the end it would have destroyed our country if we had not taken the radical step of cutting it out.

    That the Eurofanatics are in denial about this is no surprise. Nor is the fact that the rail against the diagnosis.
    Always sovereign.
    Given I made no mention at all today of Sovereignty that is clearly a straw man argument because you had no answer to my comment. Poor show old chap.
    It's a weak argument too. We were always sovereign, we just never exercised it. Well what good is it then?
  • TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    We were always sovereign. Of course if you are worried, scared, insecure, or perhaps just a moron, it might not have seemed like that. But we were.

    And the laws that are passed are those of a club that we had decided to join and helped to craft.

    But as @John_M notes - these are old battles. You won the war. It's why I am so bemused by the terrified and desperate tone of most of the Brexiter posts.

    We were only sovereign to the extent that we had delegated our sovereignty to Brussels and were unable to exercise our sovereignty for as long as we had delegated it - but reserved the right to retrieve it at any time.

    I voted to retrieve our sovereignty so that we could exercise it ourselves and not have others exercise it on our behalf. I fail to see what petrifies you about us exercising our own sovereignty rather than delegating it to Brussels.
    I was only not allowed to wear jeans and a t-shirt to my club because I had delegated the rules for that club to the committee. But I could resign at any time.

    So I decided to resign from the club so I can wear jeans and a t-shirt any god damn time I want. But not, sadly, in my club, which is a shame as it is very agreeable.
    But if your club said that you could never wear jeans and a t-shirt regardless of whether you were on the premises or not?
    Luckily I negotiated a release whereby that rule didn't apply to me.
    I congratulate you on manfully batting on in the face of adversity. I lost the plot during the 'cancer' exchange. Which, was by the way, a really poor analogy. The debate has subsequently got even more obtuse.
    Its an excellent analogy. It has eaten into the body politic of the UK, has caused irreparable damage to our democracy, our economy and the basic trust in Government. The longer we have suffered with it the more difficult it has become to remove and in the end it would have destroyed our country if we had not taken the radical step of cutting it out.

    That the Eurofanatics are in denial about this is no surprise. Nor is the fact that the rail against the diagnosis.
    To me it is a crap analogy to you it is genius. To me Brexit is an act of economic vandalism, to you it is freedom from oppression.
    No, to me it is the simple act of ensuring that we cut out a harmful and unwanted growth from our politics. I could just have easily used a parasite as the analogy but given that I actually have cancer it seemed a more appropriate analogy and closer to home.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,547

    Watching Trump in Davos he seems supremely confident, he has got the US econony flying with huge tax cuts (are you listening Corbyn/McDonnell), is demanding new free and fair trade deals, has told the Palestinians he will stop all US money going to them unless they agree to peace talks, and is more than likely coming to London this year.

    He may well yet confound his critics

    I am getting the feeling I may be confounded. ie Trump will win another term. The numbers aren't there yet for him, but the booming economy certainly helps, if it holds out.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    We were always sovereign. Of course if you are worried, scared, insecure, or perhaps just a moron, it might not have seemed like that. But we were.

    And the laws that are passed are those of a club that we had decided to join and helped to craft.

    But as @John_M notes - these are old battles. You won the war. It's why I am so bemused by the terrified and desperate tone of most of the Brexiter posts.

    We were only sovereign to the extent that we had delegated our sovereignty to Brussels and were unable to exercise our sovereignty for as long as we had delegated it - but reserved the right to retrieve it at any time.

    I voted to retrieve our sovereignty so that we could exercise it ourselves and not have others exercise it on our behalf. I fail to see what petrifies you about us exercising our own sovereignty rather than delegating it to Brussels.
    I was only not allowed to wear jeans and a t-shirt to my club because I had delegated the rules for that club to the committee. But I could resign at any time.

    So I decided to resign from the club so I can wear jeans and a t-shirt any god damn time I want. But not, sadly, in my club, which is a shame as it is very agreeable.
    But if your club said that you could never wear jeans and a t-shirt regardless of whether you were on the premises or not?
    Luckily I negotiated a release whereby that rule didn't apply to me.
    I congratulate you on manfully batting on in the face of adversity. I lost the plot during the 'cancer' exchange. Which, was by the way, a really poor analogy. The debate has subsequently got even more obtuse.

    That the Eurofanatics are in denial about this is no surprise. Nor is the fact that the rail against the diagnosis.
    To me it is a crap analogy to you it is genius. To me Brexit is an act of economic vandalism, to you it is freedom from oppression.
    No, to me it is the simple act of ensuring that we cut out a harmful and unwanted growth from our politics. I could just have easily used a parasite as the analogy but given that I actually have cancer it seemed a more appropriate analogy and closer to home.
    Very sorry to hear that Richard. Good luck.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    We were always sovereign. Of course if you are worried, scared, insecure, or perhaps just a moron, it might not have seemed like that. But we were.

    And the laws that are passed are those of a club that we had decided to join and helped to craft.

    But as @John_M notes - these are old battles. You won the war. It's why I am so bemused by the terrified and desperate tone of most of the Brexiter posts.

    We were only sovereign to the extent that we had delegated our sovereignty to Brussels and were unable to exercise our sovereignty for as long as we had delegated it - but reserved the right to retrieve it at any time.

    I voted to retrieve our sovereignty so that we could exercise it ourselves and not have others exercise it on our behalf. I fail to see what petrifies you about us exercising our own sovereignty rather than delegating it to Brussels.
    I was only not allowed to wear jeans and a t-shirt to my club because I had delegated the rules for that club to the committee. But I could resign at any time.

    So I decided to resign from the club so I can wear jeans and a t-shirt any god damn time I want. But not, sadly, in my club, which is a shame as it is very agreeable.
    But if your club said that you could never wear jeans and a t-shirt regardless of whether you were on the premises or not?
    Luckily I negotiated a release whereby that rule didn't apply to me.
    I congratulate you on manfully batting on in the face of adversity. I lost the plot during the 'cancer' exchange. Which, was by the way, a really poor analogy. The debate has subsequently got even more obtuse.
    Its an excellent analogy. It has eaten into the body politic of the UK, has caused irreparable damage to our democracy, our economy and the basic trust in Government. The longer we have suffered with it the more difficult it has become to remove and in the end it would have destroyed our country if we had not taken the radical step of cutting it out.

    That the Eurofanatics are in denial about this is no surprise. Nor is the fact that the rail against the diagnosis.
    Always sovereign.
    Given I made no mention at all today of Sovereignty that is clearly a straw man argument because you had no answer to my comment. Poor show old chap.
    So you accept that whatever shape our country is in is entirely our own doing.

    At last.
  • FF43 said:

    Watching Trump in Davos he seems supremely confident, he has got the US econony flying with huge tax cuts (are you listening Corbyn/McDonnell), is demanding new free and fair trade deals, has told the Palestinians he will stop all US money going to them unless they agree to peace talks, and is more than likely coming to London this year.

    He may well yet confound his critics

    I am getting the feeling I may be confounded. ie Trump will win another term. The numbers aren't there yet for him, but the booming economy certainly helps, if it holds out.
    I still get the impression that Trump is going to turn out to be a lucky president even though he is not a skilful one. I am really not sure how much credit he should really be given for the economy after only being in office for one year and I think he has just been lucky that he was elected at the time of an already improving economic outlook.

    Not of course that that will matter to his supporters who will be sure to try and claim it was all his doing.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    @Richard_Tyndall

    Oh very very sorry to hear about your condition; I hope the treatment is progressing.
  • TOPPING said:



    So you accept that whatever shape our country is in is entirely our own doing.

    At last.

    Not at all. We have been severely damaged by our EU membership. We obviously hold much of the blame for being stupid enough to stay in (by we in this case I mean the political leaderships of course).

    But again you are desperately trying to use straw man tactics to get away from the fact you were losing the argument.
  • TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    We were always sovereign. Of course if you are worried, scared, insecure, or perhaps just a moron, it might not have seemed like that. But we were.

    And the laws that are passed are those of a club that we had decided to join and helped to craft.

    But as @John_M notes - these are old battles. You won the war. It's why I am so bemused by the terrified and desperate tone of most of the Brexiter posts.

    We were only sovereign to the extent that we had delegated our sovereignty to Brussels and were unable to exercise our sovereignty for as long as we had delegated it - but reserved the right to retrieve it at any time.

    I voted to retrieve our sovereignty so that we could exercise it ourselves and not have others exercise it on our behalf. I fail to see what petrifies you about us exercising our own sovereignty rather than delegating it to Brussels.
    I was only not allowed to wear jeans and a t-shirt to my club because I had delegated the rules for that club to the committee. But I could resign at any time.

    So I decided to resign from the club so I can wear jeans and a t-shirt any god damn time I want. But not, sadly, in my club, which is a shame as it is very agreeable.
    But if your club said that you could never wear jeans and a t-shirt regardless of whether you were on the premises or not?
    Luckily I negotiated a release whereby that rule didn't apply to me.
    I congratulate you on manfully batting on in the face of adversity. I lost the plot during the 'cancer' exchange. Which, was by the way, a really poor analogy. The debate has subsequently got even more obtuse.
    Its an excellent analogy. It has eaten into the body politic of the UK, has caused irreparable damage to our democracy, our economy and the basic trust in Government. The longer we have suffered with it the more difficult it has become to remove and in the end it would have destroyed our country if we had not taken the radical step of cutting it out.

    That the Eurofanatics are in denial about this is no surprise. Nor is the fact that the rail against the diagnosis.
    Always sovereign.
    So long as we don't exercise it. What's the point of that?

    That's like me saying I would like a glass of wine but we have joined an abstinence club, so I decide to leave the abstinence club. Then you say we could always drink even although we've joined an abstinence club because we could theoretically leave the club at any time so why would we actually leave?

    Your position makes no sense.
  • FF43 said:

    Watching Trump in Davos he seems supremely confident, he has got the US econony flying with huge tax cuts (are you listening Corbyn/McDonnell), is demanding new free and fair trade deals, has told the Palestinians he will stop all US money going to them unless they agree to peace talks, and is more than likely coming to London this year.

    He may well yet confound his critics

    I am getting the feeling I may be confounded. ie Trump will win another term. The numbers aren't there yet for him, but the booming economy certainly helps, if it holds out.
    I think he is appalling but he does seem to be making things happen. As has been said his actions may well have created the rapprochement between N and S Korea, taking away US dollars from the Palestinians is as a good a way as any of getting them to peace talks, he is going to stir up trade deals and ruffle some feathers, and the US is forecast to grow by upto 4% this year

    It is also important for him to come to the UK despite the left's protestations as a recognition of the special relationship between the UK and the US. Let the left go off on one, so what
  • John_M said:

    Very sorry to hear that Richard. Good luck.

    It will sort.

    I have a skin cancer which needs removing. I am annoyed because I saw 4 GPs, the first 3 of whom said 'we don't know what it is but don't worry' and it was only the 4th who said 'I don't know what it is lets ask a specialist.'*

    When I saw the specialist at Queens and told her I had had it for 18 months and it had been getting larger she asked why I had not come to see her much sooner.

    I didn't really have a polite answer to that and since it was not her fault I just grimaced as if it was my fault.

    It will shortly be cut out and hopefully that will be the end of it but it does make me nervous as long as it is still there.

    * In fairness they were also dealing with the urinary tract issues at the time so it probably seemed secondary and unimportant.

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,725
    TM comments on "the dinner" are to be applauded.

    Thats twice in 2 days after her comments on women taking smear test.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    We were always sovereign. Of course if you are worried, scared, insecure, or perhaps just a moron, it might not have seemed like that. But we were.

    And the laws that are passed are those of a club that we had decided to join and helped to craft.

    But as @John_M notes - these are old battles. You won the war. It's why I am so bemused by the terrified and desperate tone of most of the Brexiter posts.

    We were only sovereign t

    I voted to retrieve our sovereignty so that we could exercise it ourselves and not have others exercise it on our behalf. I fail to see what petrifies you about us exercising our own sovereignty rather than delegating it to Brussels.
    I was only not allowed to wear jeans and a t-shirt to my club because I had delegated the rules for that club to the committee. But I could resign at any time.

    So I decided to resign from the club so I can wear jeans and a t-shirt any god damn time I want. But not, sadly, in my club, which is a shame as it is very agreeable.
    But if your club said that you could never wear jeans and a t-shirt regardless of whether you were on the premises or not?
    Luckily I negotiated a release whereby that rule didn't apply to me.
    I congratulate you on manfully batting on in the face of adversity. I lost the plot during the 'cancer' exchange. Which, was by the way, a really poor analogy. The debate has subsequently got even more obtuse.
    Its an excellent analogy. It has eaten into the body politic of the UK, has caused irreparable damage to our democracy, our economy and the basic trust in Government. The longer we have suffered with it the more difficult it has become to remove and in the end it would have destroyed our country if we had not taken the radical step of cutting it out.

    That the Eurofanatics are in denial about this is no surprise. Nor is the fact that the rail against the diagnosis.
    Always sovereign.
    So long as we don't exercise it. What's the point of that?

    That's like me saying I would like a glass of wine but we have joined an abstinence club, so I decide to leave the abstinence club. Then you say we could always drink even although we've joined an abstinence club because we could theoretically leave the club at any time so why would we actually leave?

    Your position makes no sense.
    Your analogies are crap.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    eek said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Watching Trump in Davos he seems supremely confident, he has got the US econony flying with huge tax cuts (are you listening Corbyn/McDonnell), is demanding new free and fair trade deals, has told the Palestinians he will stop all US money going to them unless they agree to peace talks, and is more than likely coming to London this year.

    He may well yet confound his critics

    And N and S Korea have kissed and made up. I agree: if you ignore everything he and anyone else has ever put on twitter, it doesn't look at all a bad record.
    And the dollar at 1.43 and the euro at 1.14 are signs the markets have confidence on the UK (despite Brexit)
    The euro at 1.14 is a sign of (vague) confidence. The dollar at 1.43 points more to something to do with the dollar....
    OK, so what are you benchmarking the dollar against? Because you must be looking at a dollar/something else exchange rate to be able to say that, so you can surely eliminate the detour and tell us how the £ is doing against the thing you are measuring the $ against?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    It's hard to avoid the conclusion that Philip Hammond is seeking an early resolution of Theresa May's position.

    And his own...
This discussion has been closed.