Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » LAB/CON/LDs all see vote shares up, UKIP/GREEN down in January

SystemSystem Posts: 5,841
edited January 27 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » LAB/CON/LDs all see vote shares up, UKIP/GREEN down in January local by elections

Votes Cast, Share, Vote Share Change and Seat Change Conservatives 11,047 votes (47.75% +5.71% on last time) winning 7 seats (+1 seat on last time) Labour 6,036 votes (26.09% +6.28% on last time) winning 1 seat (-1 seat on last time) Liberal Democrats 3,538 votes (15.29% +5.62% on last time) winning 1 seat (unchanged on last time) Independent candidates 1,070 votes (4.62% -3.29% on last time) winning 1 seat (unchanged on last time) Green Party 727 votes (3.14% -4.25% on last time) winning 0 seats (unchanged on last time) United Kingdom Independence Party 718 votes (3.10% -9.45% on last time) winning 0 seats (unchanged on last time) Conservative lead of 5,011 votes (21.66%) on a swing of 0.29% from Con to Lab

Read the full story here


«1

Comments

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 2,220
    edited January 27
    First!
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 10,335
    Thanks, Harry! UKIP dying, not much else happening...
  • felixfelix Posts: 7,406
    Lol.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 42,447
    Cheers for that Mr. Hayfield.

    The only real surprise, perhaps, is the Green vote tumbling. But they might be attracted by Corbyn's brand of lunacy.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 26,218
    Broken, sleazy UKIP and Greens on the slide :)
  • stevefstevef Posts: 1,044
    Labour should be surging ahead if it was the "government in waiting" that the Corbytrons claim.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 14,483
    edited January 27
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 9,823
    edited January 27
    I am guessing that the amount of direct switching between Tory and Labour and v.v. between two successive elections is fairly unprecedented?

    Also note the proportion of UKIPers who went (back?) to not voting, the higher turnout of previous DNVs who were Remain v Leave, and an indication that Tory Remainers could be fertile ground for the LibDems.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 7,426
    Labour gains absent for another month... will it be different in May???
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 9,688

    Labour gains absent for another month... will it be different in May???

    I have a theory that Corbz brand of politics doesn't translate to council level outside of metro cities
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 28,305
    21% of Labour Leave voters going on strike in 2017 is a non-trivial number....Might concentrate a few minds...
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 42,447
    Miss Vance, 12%, wasn't it? The Conservatives had a corresponding stat of 19%.

    The next election remains very hard to try and call.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 28,305

    Miss Vance, 12%, wasn't it? The Conservatives had a corresponding stat of 19%.

    35%

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/06/27/how-britain-voted/
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 28,305
    Nick agrees with Jacob:

    I agree with Jacob Rees-Mogg, the leader of the hardline pro-Brexit faction of Conservative MPs. There. I’ve said it. I never thought I would — and I doubt I ever will again — but he is right about one crucial component in the Brexit puzzle: the transition period.

    https://www.ft.com/content/be44ff5a-028e-11e8-9e12-af73e8db3c71
  • stevefstevef Posts: 1,044

    21% of Labour Leave voters going on strike in 2017 is a non-trivial number....Might concentrate a few minds...
    But there's not enough of them to constitute a flock. Its Tory voters in Tory marginals who need to flock to Corbyn.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 14,813
    Returning to the education debate on the previous thread, it is interesting to see how myths and bogeymen develop in the eyes of vested interests such as teachers.

    As part of a wide ranging attack on Michael Gove, Ydoethur made a well founded criticism of the huge variation in standards of marking between different exam boards. This would indeed be a reasonable attack were it not for one important fact. Michael Gove fought very hard to scrap the different boards and have them replaced with one standardised board at a national level - something which is eminently sensible. He was prevented from doing so by Cameron and the Lib Dems who blocked the proposals, He also wanted to scrap GCSEs, which have frankly been a disaster for education since they were introduced by Thatcher in 1986. But that was blocked by Parliament.

    Our education system has been a laughing stock and unfit for purpose since long before Gove appeared on the scene and given that every suggested change has been fought tooth and nail by teachers I am not inclined to take them seriously when they criticise those partial reforms that did get through.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 14,813
    stevef said:

    21% of Labour Leave voters going on strike in 2017 is a non-trivial number....Might concentrate a few minds...
    But there's not enough of them to constitute a flock. Its Tory voters in Tory marginals who need to flock to Corbyn.
    What I find interesting are the 1 million 2015 UKIP voters who did not vote in 2017. One wonders what they will do at the next election if May holds to the hard Brexit line but Corbyn switches to a Remain position.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 43,665
    stevef said:

    21% of Labour Leave voters going on strike in 2017 is a non-trivial number....Might concentrate a few minds...
    But there's not enough of them to constitute a flock. Its Tory voters in Tory marginals who need to flock to Corbyn.
    That DNV 2015, leave 2016, DNV 2017 65% (And 12% to Labour !) looks like a missed open goal to me. I suspect Boris would have got a better conversion than 19/65.

    Plaid did remarkably well to end up with a seat gain whilst retaining only 28% of their core vote.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 2,864
    stevef said:

    21% of Labour Leave voters going on strike in 2017 is a non-trivial number....Might concentrate a few minds...
    But there's not enough of them to constitute a flock. Its Tory voters in Tory marginals who need to flock to Corbyn.
    Not a flock. But enough.

    Electoral calculus is showing there are 39 Tory marginals where, on current polls, there are enough.

    http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/gainloss.html
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 2,864

    Nick agrees with Jacob:

    I agree with Jacob Rees-Mogg, the leader of the hardline pro-Brexit faction of Conservative MPs. There. I’ve said it. I never thought I would — and I doubt I ever will again — but he is right about one crucial component in the Brexit puzzle: the transition period.

    https://www.ft.com/content/be44ff5a-028e-11e8-9e12-af73e8db3c71

    This could be important.

    If Rees-Mogg genuinely prefers an extension to A50 (where we would retain control) rather than a transition period (where we would be a vassal state), then an extension of A50 could be on the cards.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 2,220

    stevef said:

    21% of Labour Leave voters going on strike in 2017 is a non-trivial number....Might concentrate a few minds...
    But there's not enough of them to constitute a flock. Its Tory voters in Tory marginals who need to flock to Corbyn.
    What I find interesting are the 1 million 2015 UKIP voters who did not vote in 2017. One wonders what they will do at the next election if May holds to the hard Brexit line but Corbyn switches to a Remain position.
    Or vice versa if for example, May is BINO.

  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 756

    stevef said:

    21% of Labour Leave voters going on strike in 2017 is a non-trivial number....Might concentrate a few minds...
    But there's not enough of them to constitute a flock. Its Tory voters in Tory marginals who need to flock to Corbyn.
    What I find interesting are the 1 million 2015 UKIP voters who did not vote in 2017. One wonders what they will do at the next election if May holds to the hard Brexit line but Corbyn switches to a Remain position.
    It quite possibly reflects the fact that UKIP stood in every seat in England and Wales in 2015 but didn't stand in half in 2017. Perhaps some didn't vote as they didn't have anyone on the ballot paper they wanted to vote for.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 2,864
    edited January 27
    Those on here who think that it is certain that we will leave on 29 March 2019 will be pleased to know that the Betfair price on leaving on that date has lengthened from 2.40 to 2.48 in the last 24 hours. Great betting opportunity!

    I'm on it but more as a small compensation if it comes to pass rather than as a value bet.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 11,436
    Anti climactic trebles all round probably, but..

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 42,447
    Mr. Divvie, we'll see.

    On Betfair, May to go Jan-Mar is 12.5, and Apr-Jun is 6. There has not been a significant shift there today.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 2,083

    Nick agrees with Jacob:

    I agree with Jacob Rees-Mogg, the leader of the hardline pro-Brexit faction of Conservative MPs. There. I’ve said it. I never thought I would — and I doubt I ever will again — but he is right about one crucial component in the Brexit puzzle: the transition period.

    https://www.ft.com/content/be44ff5a-028e-11e8-9e12-af73e8db3c71

    I am losing patience with Mr Rees-Mogg. Any delay to formal Brexit increases the risk that events and the diehard Remainers will combine to bring the whole process to a shuddering halt. How can he be so naive?

    The British people will not be amused if they are asked to elect MEPs in 2019, when we voted to leave 3 years earlier.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 2,864
    RoyalBlue said:

    Nick agrees with Jacob:

    I agree with Jacob Rees-Mogg, the leader of the hardline pro-Brexit faction of Conservative MPs. There. I’ve said it. I never thought I would — and I doubt I ever will again — but he is right about one crucial component in the Brexit puzzle: the transition period.

    https://www.ft.com/content/be44ff5a-028e-11e8-9e12-af73e8db3c71

    I am losing patience with Mr Rees-Mogg. Any delay to formal Brexit increases the risk that events and the diehard Remainers will combine to bring the whole process to a shuddering halt. How can he be so naive?

    The British people will not be amused if they are asked to elect MEPs in 2019, when we voted to leave 3 years earlier.
    Mr Rees-Mogg is a man of clear logic and impeccable integrity. Good man.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 2,083
    Barnesian said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Nick agrees with Jacob:

    I agree with Jacob Rees-Mogg, the leader of the hardline pro-Brexit faction of Conservative MPs. There. I’ve said it. I never thought I would — and I doubt I ever will again — but he is right about one crucial component in the Brexit puzzle: the transition period.

    https://www.ft.com/content/be44ff5a-028e-11e8-9e12-af73e8db3c71

    I am losing patience with Mr Rees-Mogg. Any delay to formal Brexit increases the risk that events and the diehard Remainers will combine to bring the whole process to a shuddering halt. How can he be so naive?

    The British people will not be amused if they are asked to elect MEPs in 2019, when we voted to leave 3 years earlier.
    Mr Rees-Mogg is a man of clear logic and impeccable integrity. Good man.
    That is true, but failing to appreciate that the appearance of things can be just as important as their substance is a failing, particularly in politics.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 21,990

    stevef said:

    21% of Labour Leave voters going on strike in 2017 is a non-trivial number....Might concentrate a few minds...
    But there's not enough of them to constitute a flock. Its Tory voters in Tory marginals who need to flock to Corbyn.
    What I find interesting are the 1 million 2015 UKIP voters who did not vote in 2017. One wonders what they will do at the next election if May holds to the hard Brexit line but Corbyn switches to a Remain position.
    Some of that will be because there was no local UKIp candidate
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 2,864
    RoyalBlue said:

    Barnesian said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Nick agrees with Jacob:

    I agree with Jacob Rees-Mogg, the leader of the hardline pro-Brexit faction of Conservative MPs. There. I’ve said it. I never thought I would — and I doubt I ever will again — but he is right about one crucial component in the Brexit puzzle: the transition period.

    https://www.ft.com/content/be44ff5a-028e-11e8-9e12-af73e8db3c71

    I am losing patience with Mr Rees-Mogg. Any delay to formal Brexit increases the risk that events and the diehard Remainers will combine to bring the whole process to a shuddering halt. How can he be so naive?

    The British people will not be amused if they are asked to elect MEPs in 2019, when we voted to leave 3 years earlier.
    Mr Rees-Mogg is a man of clear logic and impeccable integrity. Good man.
    That is true, but failing to appreciate that the appearance of things can be just as important as their substance is a failing, particularly in politics.
    So you are not backing him as next leader then?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,830
    edited January 27

    Returning to the education debate on the previous thread, it is interesting to see how myths and bogeymen develop in the eyes of vested interests such as teachers.

    As part of a wide ranging attack on Michael Gove, Ydoethur made a well founded criticism of the huge variation in standards of marking between different exam boards. This would indeed be a reasonable attack were it not for one important fact. Michael Gove fought very hard to scrap the different boards and have them replaced with one standardised board at a national level - something which is eminently sensible. He was prevented from doing so by Cameron and the Lib Dems who blocked the proposals, He also wanted to scrap GCSEs, which have frankly been a disaster for education since they were introduced by Thatcher in 1986. But that was blocked by Parliament.

    Our education system has been a laughing stock and unfit for purpose since long before Gove appeared on the scene and given that every suggested change has been fought tooth and nail by teachers I am not inclined to take them seriously when they criticise those partial reforms that did get through.

    Not quite Richard. He reformed GCSEs and then launched a consultation on getting rid of them altogether, but as he couldn't suggest what they should be replaced with (the EBACC being effectively GCSEs by another name) the idea was quickly dropped.

    Moreover, he didn't try and get rid of exam boards - he just wanted each subject offered only by one. When a Telegraph investigation into Chief Examiners cheating (giving away information for money) made it clear this was a model for widespread corruption that idea was ditched as well. For some subjects - Politics, Philosophy and Classics spring to mind - that has de facto happened anyway because there is too much work for too little reward involved in writing the course. Other A-levels, such as Archaeology, have died altogether.

    Can I please stress I was an ardent supporter of Gove in 2010 and delighted with his ideas. It is not the principles it's their disastrous misapplication in practice due to his haste and hubris that has put me off.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 2,083
    edited January 27
    Barnesian said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Barnesian said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Nick agrees with Jacob:

    I agree with Jacob Rees-Mogg, the leader of the hardline pro-Brexit faction of Conservative MPs. There. I’ve said it. I never thought I would — and I doubt I ever will again — but he is right about one crucial component in the Brexit puzzle: the transition period.

    https://www.ft.com/content/be44ff5a-028e-11e8-9e12-af73e8db3c71

    I am losing patience with Mr Rees-Mogg. Any delay to formal Brexit increases the risk that events and the diehard Remainers will combine to bring the whole process to a shuddering halt. How can he be so naive?

    The British people will not be amused if they are asked to elect MEPs in 2019, when we voted to leave 3 years earlier.
    Mr Rees-Mogg is a man of clear logic and impeccable integrity. Good man.
    That is true, but failing to appreciate that the appearance of things can be just as important as their substance is a failing, particularly in politics.
    So you are not backing him as next leader then?
    No. At this moment, I would favour Gove (apologies ydoethur!). He wouldn’t be an easy sell and would be very polarising, but no-one could accuse a government led by him of being lethargic. He has the intellectual ability and confidence to make the case for conservatism, capitalism and Brexit, which the Tories need to do far more than they have under May.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 14,813
    rcs1000 said:

    stevef said:

    21% of Labour Leave voters going on strike in 2017 is a non-trivial number....Might concentrate a few minds...
    But there's not enough of them to constitute a flock. Its Tory voters in Tory marginals who need to flock to Corbyn.
    What I find interesting are the 1 million 2015 UKIP voters who did not vote in 2017. One wonders what they will do at the next election if May holds to the hard Brexit line but Corbyn switches to a Remain position.
    Some of that will be because there was no local UKIp candidate
    Yes but that means exactly the same thing in effect. Without UKIP they are looking for another home for their vote and that will most likely be the party which ensures Brexit actually happens.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 2,864
    edited January 27
    RoyalBlue said:

    Barnesian said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Barnesian said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Nick agrees with Jacob:

    I agree with Jacob Rees-Mogg, the leader of the hardline pro-Brexit faction of Conservative MPs. There. I’ve said it. I never thought I would — and I doubt I ever will again — but he is right about one crucial component in the Brexit puzzle: the transition period.

    https://www.ft.com/content/be44ff5a-028e-11e8-9e12-af73e8db3c71

    I am losing patience with Mr Rees-Mogg. Any delay to formal Brexit increases the risk that events and the diehard Remainers will combine to bring the whole process to a shuddering halt. How can he be so naive?

    The British people will not be amused if they are asked to elect MEPs in 2019, when we voted to leave 3 years earlier.
    Mr Rees-Mogg is a man of clear logic and impeccable integrity. Good man.
    That is true, but failing to appreciate that the appearance of things can be just as important as their substance is a failing, particularly in politics.
    So you are not backing him as next leader then?
    No. At this moment, I would favour Gove (apologies ydoethur!). He wouldn’t be an easy sell and would be very polarising, but no-one could accuse a government led by him of being lethargic. He has the intellectual ability and confidence to make the case for conservatism, capitalism and Brexit, which the Tories need to do far more than at present.
    Yes I can see that. But it would be an energetic intellectual appeal in contrast to Boris who would make the fluffy emotional appeal. But as you said "failing to appreciate that the appearance of things can be just as important as their substance is a failing, particularly in politics."

    EDIT: And just look at Gove's appearance.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 14,813
    ydoethur said:

    Returning to the education debate on the previous thread, it is interesting to see how myths and bogeymen develop in the eyes of vested interests such as teachers.

    As part of a wide ranging attack on Michael Gove, Ydoethur made a well founded criticism of the huge variation in standards of marking between different exam boards. This would indeed be a reasonable attack were it not for one important fact. Michael Gove fought very hard to scrap the different boards and have them replaced with one standardised board at a national level - something which is eminently sensible. He was prevented from doing so by Cameron and the Lib Dems who blocked the proposals, He also wanted to scrap GCSEs, which have frankly been a disaster for education since they were introduced by Thatcher in 1986. But that was blocked by Parliament.

    Our education system has been a laughing stock and unfit for purpose since long before Gove appeared on the scene and given that every suggested change has been fought tooth and nail by teachers I am not inclined to take them seriously when they criticise those partial reforms that did get through.

    Not quite Richard. He reformed GCSEs and then launched a consultation on getting rid of them altogether, but as he couldn't suggest what they should be replaced with (the EBACC being effectively GCSEs by another name) the idea was quickly dropped.

    Moreover, he didn't try and get rid of exam boards - he just wanted each subject offered only by one. When a Telegraph investigation into Chief Examiners cheating (giving away information for money) made it clear this was a model for widespread corruption that idea was ditched as well. For some subjects - Politics, Philosophy and Classics spring to mind - that has de facto happened anyway because there is too much work for too little reward involved in writing the course. Other A-levels, such as Archaeology, have died altogether.

    Can I please stress I was an ardent supporter of Gove in 2010 and delighted with his ideas. It is not the principles it's their disastrous misapplication in practice due to his haste and hubris that has put me off.
    Funnily enough I was following the whole exam board debate at the time it happened and what you have said is not correct. He did indeed suggest a single national examination board and it was only when that was blocked that he tried and failed to get the single board per subject boards through.

    And the replacement for GCSEs with the English Bacc. was not quickly dropped because the couldnt suggest a replacement. It was dropped bevause the Lib Dems refused to support it in principle. The plans did not envisage the new exams coming in until summer 2017 so all that was happening in 2013 was the establishment of the principle.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 42,447
    "...a state that becomes free creates for itself enemies rather than friends." - Ch16 of Discourses on Livy.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 12,950

    rcs1000 said:

    stevef said:

    21% of Labour Leave voters going on strike in 2017 is a non-trivial number....Might concentrate a few minds...
    But there's not enough of them to constitute a flock. Its Tory voters in Tory marginals who need to flock to Corbyn.
    What I find interesting are the 1 million 2015 UKIP voters who did not vote in 2017. One wonders what they will do at the next election if May holds to the hard Brexit line but Corbyn switches to a Remain position.
    Some of that will be because there was no local UKIp candidate
    Yes but that means exactly the same thing in effect. Without UKIP they are looking for another home for their vote and that will most likely be the party which ensures Brexit actually happens.
    Looks like the opposite to me. Without UKIP they're actually not looking for another home for their vote.

    Apathy needs to be considered as real an alternative as any other party.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 21,990

    rcs1000 said:

    stevef said:

    21% of Labour Leave voters going on strike in 2017 is a non-trivial number....Might concentrate a few minds...
    But there's not enough of them to constitute a flock. Its Tory voters in Tory marginals who need to flock to Corbyn.
    What I find interesting are the 1 million 2015 UKIP voters who did not vote in 2017. One wonders what they will do at the next election if May holds to the hard Brexit line but Corbyn switches to a Remain position.
    Some of that will be because there was no local UKIp candidate
    Yes but that means exactly the same thing in effect. Without UKIP they are looking for another home for their vote and that will most likely be the party which ensures Brexit actually happens.
    Personally, I am supremely relaxed. We will be leaving the EU, and our relationship with the bloc will likely wax and wane over time. However, we will be permanently removed from "ever closer union", and I don't see that being back on the agenda in my lifetime.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,830

    <


    Funnily enough I was following the whole exam board debate at the time it happened and what you have said is not correct. He did indeed suggest a single national examination board and it was only when that was blocked that he tried and failed to get the single board per subject boards through.

    And the replacement for GCSEs with the English Bacc. was not quickly dropped because the couldnt suggest a replacement. It was dropped bevause the Lib Dems refused to support it in principle. The plans did not envisage the new exams coming in until summer 2017 so all that was happening in 2013 was the establishment of the principle.

    Hi Richard

    The EBACC has not been dropped. It's just a cluster of GCSEs rather than a discrete qualification.

    I will take your word for it on exam boards as I was working in a university at the time and not following closely. Would you have a link though as that's not what I understood to be happening?
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 1,840
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    stevef said:

    21% of Labour Leave voters going on strike in 2017 is a non-trivial number....Might concentrate a few minds...
    But there's not enough of them to constitute a flock. Its Tory voters in Tory marginals who need to flock to Corbyn.
    What I find interesting are the 1 million 2015 UKIP voters who did not vote in 2017. One wonders what they will do at the next election if May holds to the hard Brexit line but Corbyn switches to a Remain position.
    Some of that will be because there was no local UKIp candidate
    Yes but that means exactly the same thing in effect. Without UKIP they are looking for another home for their vote and that will most likely be the party which ensures Brexit actually happens.
    Personally, I am supremely relaxed. We will be leaving the EU, and our relationship with the bloc will likely wax and wane over time. However, we will be permanently removed from "ever closer union", and I don't see that being back on the agenda in my lifetime.
    I think you are saying that to distract yourself from the obvious reality. We are leaving in name only. We'll be back in. Probably quite soon.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 21,990

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    stevef said:

    21% of Labour Leave voters going on strike in 2017 is a non-trivial number....Might concentrate a few minds...
    But there's not enough of them to constitute a flock. Its Tory voters in Tory marginals who need to flock to Corbyn.
    What I find interesting are the 1 million 2015 UKIP voters who did not vote in 2017. One wonders what they will do at the next election if May holds to the hard Brexit line but Corbyn switches to a Remain position.
    Some of that will be because there was no local UKIp candidate
    Yes but that means exactly the same thing in effect. Without UKIP they are looking for another home for their vote and that will most likely be the party which ensures Brexit actually happens.
    Personally, I am supremely relaxed. We will be leaving the EU, and our relationship with the bloc will likely wax and wane over time. However, we will be permanently removed from "ever closer union", and I don't see that being back on the agenda in my lifetime.
    I think you are saying that to distract yourself from the obvious reality. We are leaving in name only. We'll be back in. Probably quite soon.
    None of the EFTA countries seem to be racing towards membership, why would we? And none of them seem very unhappy with their current relationship with the EU either..
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,830
    Just a couple of questions though Richard:

    Are you happy with the chaos in exams, including mistakes in the content, late changes in the system of assessment and silly errors in the marking?

    Are you happy with academies taken decisions from parents and giving them to some pretty dubious organisations e.g. E-Act?

    Are you happy with OFSTED becoming an ego trip for retired figures who are friends of the Minister?

    And if you are not happy with these very major problems - why do you like Gove so much?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 9,215
    Anyone going large on Steve Wynn's resignation?
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 2,083
    Barnesian said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Barnesian said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Barnesian said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Nick agrees with Jacob:

    I agree with Jacob Rees-Mogg, the leader of the hardline pro-Brexit faction of Conservative MPs. There. I’ve said it. I never thought I would — and I doubt I ever will again — but he is right about one crucial component in the Brexit puzzle: the transition period.

    https://www.ft.com/content/be44ff5a-028e-11e8-9e12-af73e8db3c71

    I am losing patience with Mr Rees-Mogg. Any delay to formal Brexit increases the risk that events and the diehard Remainers will combine to bring the whole process to a shuddering halt. How can he be so naive?

    The British people will not be amused if they are asked to elect MEPs in 2019, when we voted to leave 3 years earlier.
    Mr Rees-Mogg is a man of clear logic and impeccable integrity. Good man.
    That is true, but failing to appreciate that the appearance of things can be just as important as their substance is a failing, particularly in politics.
    So you are not backing him as next leader then?
    No. At this moment, I would favour Gove (apologies ydoethur!). He wouldn’t be an easy sell and would be very polarising, but no-one could accuse a government led by him of being lethargic. He has the intellectual ability and confidence to make the case for conservatism, capitalism and Brexit, which the Tories need to do far more than at present.
    Yes I can see that. But it would be an energetic intellectual appeal in contrast to Boris who would make the fluffy emotional appeal. But as you said "failing to appreciate that the appearance of things can be just as important as their substance is a failing, particularly in politics."

    EDIT: And just look at Gove's appearance.
    Turning my own words against me! The cheek :wink:

    Boris will always be a good prospect to win a general election, but I don’t think a lazy, unreliable adulterer should be prime minister. Appearance is important, but substance can’t be thrown overboard entirely.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 9,215
    The SNP figure shows they really have inherited the lazy voters from Labour.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 2,220
    ydoethur said:

    Just a couple of questions though Richard:

    Are you happy with the chaos in exams, including mistakes in the content, late changes in the system of assessment and silly errors in the marking?

    Are you happy with academies taken decisions from parents and giving them to some pretty dubious organisations e.g. E-Act?

    Are you happy with OFSTED becoming an ego trip for retired figures who are friends of the Minister?

    And if you are not happy with these very major problems - why do you like Gove so much?

    I don't particularly have a dog in this education fight, but surely there are really only 2 possibilities, both relevant to Gove as possible leader.

    Either Gove's reforms were half baked, or he was incapable of persuading others to implement them, or possibly both.

    That is not to say that he is unintelligent, but it is to say that he is unsuitable for leadership. He is an ideas man, but without the skill to complete.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 8,309
    Better from VAR tonight, though the ref didn't need to go and look at that penalty, the VAR should just give it. One of the positives from VAR should be that we stop defenders cheating.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 40,468
    The fact there has been a swing of less than 1% in voteshare from the Tories to Labour in recent local council by elections and a small net gain for the Tories in seats will be encouraging for them before the main local elections this year in May
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,519

    21% of Labour Leave voters going on strike in 2017 is a non-trivial number....Might concentrate a few minds...
    Good to know that I was in a 1% block in that table!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 2,041
    tlg86 said:

    Better from VAR tonight, though the ref didn't need to go and look at that penalty, the VAR should just give it. One of the positives from VAR should be that we stop defenders cheating.

    Extraordinary first half in so many ways.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 18,465
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    stevef said:

    21% of Labour Leave voters going on strike in 2017 is a non-trivial number....Might concentrate a few minds...
    But there's not enough of them to constitute a flock. Its Tory voters in Tory marginals who need to flock to Corbyn.
    What I find interesting are the 1 million 2015 UKIP voters who did not vote in 2017. One wonders what they will do at the next election if May holds to the hard Brexit line but Corbyn switches to a Remain position.
    Some of that will be because there was no local UKIp candidate
    Yes but that means exactly the same thing in effect. Without UKIP they are looking for another home for their vote and that will most likely be the party which ensures Brexit actually happens.
    Personally, I am supremely relaxed. We will be leaving the EU, and our relationship with the bloc will likely wax and wane over time. However, we will be permanently removed from "ever closer union", and I don't see that being back on the agenda in my lifetime.
    I think you are saying that to distract yourself from the obvious reality. We are leaving in name only. We'll be back in. Probably quite soon.
    None of the EFTA countries seem to be racing towards membership, why would we? And none of them seem very unhappy with their current relationship with the EU either..
    To get to that kind of relationship we have to leave the customs union first. Good luck with that...
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 14,813
    edited January 27
    ydoethur said:

    Just a couple of questions though Richard:

    Are you happy with the chaos in exams, including mistakes in the content, late changes in the system of assessment and silly errors in the marking?

    Are you happy with academies taken decisions from parents and giving them to some pretty dubious organisations e.g. E-Act?

    Are you happy with OFSTED becoming an ego trip for retired figures who are friends of the Minister?

    And if you are not happy with these very major problems - why do you like Gove so much?

    At least some of those are not the fault of Gove and it shows your blindness in this that you seek to lay blame at his feet for them. It was errors in marking that partly led Gove to want to reform the system. Ofsted has been around since 1992 and was already being massively criticised long before Gove appeared. Indeed the height of public hatred against Ofsted was during Chris Woodhead's reign in charge which ended in 2000 - a decade before Gove became Minister.

    Bottom line. Teachers detest changes to the system and have long failed to recognise that it is an utterly discredited system and has been for decades. They opposed everything Gove tried to do and now blame him because they will not accept that a fundamental reform has been long overdue.

    When Gove has been lauded for his work in two other ministries perhaps you need to start asking where the problem really was at Education.
  • dixiedean said:

    tlg86 said:

    Better from VAR tonight, though the ref didn't need to go and look at that penalty, the VAR should just give it. One of the positives from VAR should be that we stop defenders cheating.

    Extraordinary first half in so many ways.
    Can we say we are enjoying this so far
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 18,465

    21% of Labour Leave voters going on strike in 2017 is a non-trivial number....Might concentrate a few minds...
    But more 2015 Conservative Remain voters actively voted for other parties...
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 2,041

    dixiedean said:

    tlg86 said:

    Better from VAR tonight, though the ref didn't need to go and look at that penalty, the VAR should just give it. One of the positives from VAR should be that we stop defenders cheating.

    Extraordinary first half in so many ways.
    Can we say we are enjoying this so far
    Indeed. Would be 4-1 without VAR...
  • dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    tlg86 said:

    Better from VAR tonight, though the ref didn't need to go and look at that penalty, the VAR should just give it. One of the positives from VAR should be that we stop defenders cheating.

    Extraordinary first half in so many ways.
    Can we say we are enjoying this so far
    Indeed. Would be 4-1 without VAR...
    Getting gready
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 40,468
    edited January 27

    21% of Labour Leave voters going on strike in 2017 is a non-trivial number....Might concentrate a few minds...
    But more 2015 Conservative Remain voters actively voted for other parties...
    17% of 2015 Labour Leavers voted Tory in 2017, more than the 15% of Tory Remain voters who voted Labour in 2017. Labour made more gains from the LDs, the Greens and Plaid as a percentage of their 2015 vote than they did from the Tories
  • On the locals and the recent polls a leadership election just now would be self indulgent. Futhermore not one conservative is near TM in the public's eyes.

    Let her finish Brexit then have a leadership contest
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 17,604
    HYUFD said:

    21% of Labour Leave voters going on strike in 2017 is a non-trivial number....Might concentrate a few minds...
    But more 2015 Conservative Remain voters actively voted for other parties...
    17% of 2015 Labour Leavers voted Tory in 2017, more than the 15% of Tory Remain voters who voted Labour in 2017
    Those 15% of Tory Remain voters who went Labour in 2017 must be feeling rather short changed by Jeremy Corbyn, Brexit's bezzy mate.....
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 9,688
    What a day to be a Baggie.
  • Mortimer said:

    What a day to be a Baggie.

    So far
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 9,688
    edited January 27

    Mortimer said:

    What a day to be a Baggie.

    So far
    I'm just trying to bait TSE :)

    (Tho I am actually a West Brok fan!)
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 23,977
    edited January 27
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    stevef said:

    21% of Labour Leave voters going on strike in 2017 is a non-trivial number....Might concentrate a few minds...
    But there's not enough of them to constitute a flock. Its Tory voters in Tory marginals who need to flock to Corbyn.
    What I find interesting are the 1 million 2015 UKIP voters who did not vote in 2017. One wonders what they will do at the next election if May holds to the hard Brexit line but Corbyn switches to a Remain position.
    Some of that will be because there was no local UKIp candidate
    Yes but that means exactly the same thing in effect. Without UKIP they are looking for another home for their vote and that will most likely be the party which ensures Brexit actually happens.
    Personally, I am supremely relaxed. We will be leaving the EU, and our relationship with the bloc will likely wax and wane over time. However, we will be permanently removed from "ever closer union", and I don't see that being back on the agenda in my lifetime.
    We must keep fighting for that.

    The fat lady hasn't sung just yet, and there are plenty of people determined to stop her from doing so.
  • Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    What a day to be a Baggie.

    So far
    I'm just trying to bait TSE :)

    (Tho I am actually a West Brok fan!)
    I second that
  • Mortimer said:

    What a day to be a Baggie.

    The game might not finish tonight.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 40,468

    HYUFD said:

    21% of Labour Leave voters going on strike in 2017 is a non-trivial number....Might concentrate a few minds...
    But more 2015 Conservative Remain voters actively voted for other parties...
    17% of 2015 Labour Leavers voted Tory in 2017, more than the 15% of Tory Remain voters who voted Labour in 2017
    Those 15% of Tory Remain voters who went Labour in 2017 must be feeling rather short changed by Jeremy Corbyn, Brexit's bezzy mate.....
    Logically they would have been better off joining the 9% of Tory Remainers who voted LD in 2017
  • stodgestodge Posts: 3,819

    On the locals and the recent polls a leadership election just now would be self indulgent. Futhermore not one conservative is near TM in the public's eyes.

    Let her finish Brexit then have a leadership contest

    It used to be the case Conservatives would chide Lib Dems for putting so much store in local election contests. Suddenly local by-elections are the Tories' friend.

    As for self-indulgence, I'm sure the same would have been said in the late summer of 1990 had sites like this existed then with Thatcher loyalists among the membership exhorting MPs to stay loyal and keep calm.

    The Ipsos MORI poll showing Labour 3% ahead would cost the Conservatives 40 seats according to Baxter. One of the principal reasons for the ousting of Margaret Thatcher was the fear among backbenchers she would cost them their seats and jobs whereas Heseltine (and later Major) would give them a chance of survival.

    Until and unless there is a viable which means clearly better in the public eye alternative the Prime Minister is safe and even if the Party's overall poll number starts to decline she will be safe in lieu of an alternative who will do any better.

  • Mortimer said:

    What a day to be a Baggie.

    The game might not finish tonight.
    Are you suggesting VAR will keep the match going till tomorrow
  • stevefstevef Posts: 1,044
    stodge said:

    On the locals and the recent polls a leadership election just now would be self indulgent. Futhermore not one conservative is near TM in the public's eyes.

    Let her finish Brexit then have a leadership contest

    It used to be the case Conservatives would chide Lib Dems for putting so much store in local election contests. Suddenly local by-elections are the Tories' friend.

    As for self-indulgence, I'm sure the same would have been said in the late summer of 1990 had sites like this existed then with Thatcher loyalists among the membership exhorting MPs to stay loyal and keep calm.

    The Ipsos MORI poll showing Labour 3% ahead would cost the Conservatives 40 seats according to Baxter. One of the principal reasons for the ousting of Margaret Thatcher was the fear among backbenchers she would cost them their seats and jobs whereas Heseltine (and later Major) would give them a chance of survival.

    Until and unless there is a viable which means clearly better in the public eye alternative the Prime Minister is safe and even if the Party's overall poll number starts to decline she will be safe in lieu of an alternative who will do any better.

    40 seats would not be enough for Corbyn to have a majority. He would nt be able to implement his programme. He would be at the mercy of the Liberals who would veto much of his left wing programme and could bring him down at any time.

    And in any case a 3 point lead in polls before an election is not the same thing as a 3 point lead on election day. Remember Miliband had a 12 point lead.
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 756
    edited January 27
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    21% of Labour Leave voters going on strike in 2017 is a non-trivial number....Might concentrate a few minds...
    But more 2015 Conservative Remain voters actively voted for other parties...
    17% of 2015 Labour Leavers voted Tory in 2017, more than the 15% of Tory Remain voters who voted Labour in 2017
    Those 15% of Tory Remain voters who went Labour in 2017 must be feeling rather short changed by Jeremy Corbyn, Brexit's bezzy mate.....
    Logically they would have been better off joining the 9% of Tory Remainers who voted LD in 2017
    That of course assumes that the only reason for your vote is Brexit. In reality Brexit was barely mentioned by the two main parties in the last month of the campaign as student fees, removing pensioner benefits, the dementia tax and Mrs May's failure to debate became big issues.

    In the real world Brexit isn't the only thing voters care about - and for many it's not a voting determinant at all.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 32,226
    stodge said:

    On the locals and the recent polls a leadership election just now would be self indulgent. Futhermore not one conservative is near TM in the public's eyes.

    Let her finish Brexit then have a leadership contest

    It used to be the case Conservatives would chide Lib Dems for putting so much store in local election contests. Suddenly local by-elections are the Tories' friend.

    As for self-indulgence, I'm sure the same would have been said in the late summer of 1990 had sites like this existed then with Thatcher loyalists among the membership exhorting MPs to stay loyal and keep calm.

    The Ipsos MORI poll showing Labour 3% ahead would cost the Conservatives 40 seats according to Baxter. One of the principal reasons for the ousting of Margaret Thatcher was the fear among backbenchers she would cost them their seats and jobs whereas Heseltine (and later Major) would give them a chance of survival.

    Until and unless there is a viable which means clearly better in the public eye alternative the Prime Minister is safe and even if the Party's overall poll number starts to decline she will be safe in lieu of an alternative who will do any better.

    Not sure he was extolling the Tories’ triumph, he was saying how it would be self indulgent to have one during an election season.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 13,469
    edited January 27
    stodge said:

    On the locals and the recent polls a leadership election just now would be self indulgent. Futhermore not one conservative is near TM in the public's eyes.

    Let her finish Brexit then have a leadership contest

    It used to be the case Conservatives would chide Lib Dems for putting so much store in local election contests. Suddenly local by-elections are the Tories' friend.

    As for self-indulgence, I'm sure the same would have been said in the late summer of 1990 had sites like this existed then with Thatcher loyalists among the membership exhorting MPs to stay loyal and keep calm.

    The Ipsos MORI poll showing Labour 3% ahead would cost the Conservatives 40 seats according to Baxter. One of the principal reasons for the ousting of Margaret Thatcher was the fear among backbenchers she would cost them their seats and jobs whereas Heseltine (and later Major) would give them a chance of survival.

    Until and unless there is a viable which means clearly better in the public eye alternative the Prime Minister is safe and even if the Party's overall poll number starts to decline she will be safe in lieu of an alternative who will do any better.

    The most recent polls have been: tie, +3, +1, +1, +1, tie and the locals are ok.

    Additionally outside the bubble TM is doing reasonably OK with the public so no point indulging in a leadership race now. May 2019 is the time for it

    And by the way WBA are playing out of their skins at present
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 40,468
    brendan16 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    21% of Labour Leave voters going on strike in 2017 is a non-trivial number....Might concentrate a few minds...
    But more 2015 Conservative Remain voters actively voted for other parties...
    17% of 2015 Labour Leavers voted Tory in 2017, more than the 15% of Tory Remain voters who voted Labour in 2017
    Those 15% of Tory Remain voters who went Labour in 2017 must be feeling rather short changed by Jeremy Corbyn, Brexit's bezzy mate.....
    Logically they would have been better off joining the 9% of Tory Remainers who voted LD in 2017
    That of course assumes that the only reason for your vote is Brexit. In reality Brexit was barely mentioned by the two main parties in the last month of the campaign as student fees, removing pensioner benefits, the dementia tax and Mrs May's failure to debate became big issues.

    In the real world Brexit isn't the only thing voters care about - and for many it's not a voting determinant at all.
    Yes, the dementia tax was the real mover of 2015 Tory voters to Labour, Tory and Labour voters moving over Brexit cancelled each other out
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 9,823
    Jeremy Corbyn has called key members of his shadow cabinet to an “away day” to re-examine the party’s policy and strategy on Brexit amid growing frustration in Labour ranks that it is failing to exploit mounting Tory turmoil over Europe.

    Party sources confirmed to the Observer that the meeting, scheduled for early February, would look at adapting and developing Labour’s approach during “phase two” of the Brexit process.

    The gathering – which will be seen as a response to unrest and the threat of rebellions by dozens of Labour MPs – will be held at a location “away from Westminster”, and will involve senior shadow cabinet members in policy areas most affected by the UK’s departure from the EU.

    The news suggests Labour may soon announce a major shift in policy that would see it back permanent membership of some form of customs union with the EU after Brexit – opening a potentially decisive dividing line with Theresa’s May’s increasingly fractured government.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/27/jeremy-corbyn-pressure-change-of-direction-on-brexit

  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 9,688

    stodge said:

    On the locals and the recent polls a leadership election just now would be self indulgent. Futhermore not one conservative is near TM in the public's eyes.

    Let her finish Brexit then have a leadership contest

    It used to be the case Conservatives would chide Lib Dems for putting so much store in local election contests. Suddenly local by-elections are the Tories' friend.

    As for self-indulgence, I'm sure the same would have been said in the late summer of 1990 had sites like this existed then with Thatcher loyalists among the membership exhorting MPs to stay loyal and keep calm.

    The Ipsos MORI poll showing Labour 3% ahead would cost the Conservatives 40 seats according to Baxter. One of the principal reasons for the ousting of Margaret Thatcher was the fear among backbenchers she would cost them their seats and jobs whereas Heseltine (and later Major) would give them a chance of survival.

    Until and unless there is a viable which means clearly better in the public eye alternative the Prime Minister is safe and even if the Party's overall poll number starts to decline she will be safe in lieu of an alternative who will do any better.

    The most recent polls have been: tie, +3, +1, +1, +1, tie and the locals are ok.

    Additionally outside the bubble TM is doing reasonably OK with the public so no point indulging in a leadership race now. May 2019 is the time for it

    And by the way WBA are playing out of their skins at present
    We literally had no expectations for this game - we're struggling with flu going through the squad at the moment!
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 9,688
    IanB2 said:

    Jeremy Corbyn has called key members of his shadow cabinet to an “away day” to re-examine the party’s policy and strategy on Brexit amid growing frustration in Labour ranks that it is failing to exploit mounting Tory turmoil over Europe.

    Party sources confirmed to the Observer that the meeting, scheduled for early February, would look at adapting and developing Labour’s approach during “phase two” of the Brexit process.

    The gathering – which will be seen as a response to unrest and the threat of rebellions by dozens of Labour MPs – will be held at a location “away from Westminster”, and will involve senior shadow cabinet members in policy areas most affected by the UK’s departure from the EU.

    The news suggests Labour may soon announce a major shift in policy that would see it back permanent membership of some form of customs union with the EU after Brexit – opening a potentially decisive dividing line with Theresa’s May’s increasingly fractured government.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/27/jeremy-corbyn-pressure-change-of-direction-on-brexit

    Not this balls again? We'll probably have a form of customs union with the EU, but not be in THE customs union.
  • Well played WBA
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 6,466
    Scott_P said:
    I refuse to believe that Gavin Williamson leaked intelligence.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 9,688

    Well played WBA

    Top class.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 35,840
    John_M said:

    I refuse to believe that Gavin Williamson leaked intelligence.

    Someone is out to get him

  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 6,466
    edited January 27
    Scott_P said:

    John_M said:

    I refuse to believe that Gavin Williamson leaked intelligence.

    Someone is out to get him

    It's more that I think he's stupid. Perhaps I was too subtle.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 19,506
    Looks like some of the participants in the party game think that the music is about to stop.
  • Scott_P said:
    If that is the despatches story it has been debunked and was pulled by channel 4.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 702
    Looking more and more likely a move against May is coming...
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 9,688

    Looking more and more likely a move against May is coming...

    What's happened?

    Been too busy celebrating a WBA win
  • Looking more and more likely a move against May is coming...

    Evidence
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 996

    Scott_P said:
    If that is the despatches story it has been debunked and was pulled by channel 4.
    Seems unlikely it'd be on the front page of the Sunday Times then, unless there's another development
  • Scott_P said:
    If that is the despatches story it has been debunked and was pulled by channel 4.
    Seems unlikely it'd be on the front page of the Sunday Times then, unless there's another development
    It's not on the front page of the Sunday Times - at least not the copy I have seen
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 702

    Looking more and more likely a move against May is coming...

    Evidence
    What more evidence to we need? Cabinet hopelessly divided, public disagreements and May unable to make a single decision - she's even csncelled her next big Brexit speech.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 9,723
    stevef said:

    stodge said:

    On the locals and the recent polls a leadership election just now would be self indulgent. Futhermore not one conservative is near TM in the public's eyes.

    Let her finish Brexit then have a leadership contest

    It used to be the case Conservatives would chide Lib Dems for putting so much store in local election contests. Suddenly local by-elections are the Tories' friend.

    As for self-indulgence, I'm sure the same would have been said in the late summer of 1990 had sites like this existed then with Thatcher loyalists among the membership exhorting MPs to stay loyal and keep calm.

    The Ipsos MORI poll showing Labour 3% ahead would cost the Conservatives 40 seats according to Baxter. One of the principal reasons for the ousting of Margaret Thatcher was the fear among backbenchers she would cost them their seats and jobs whereas Heseltine (and later Major) would give them a chance of survival.

    Until and unless there is a viable which means clearly better in the public eye alternative the Prime Minister is safe and even if the Party's overall poll number starts to decline she will be safe in lieu of an alternative who will do any better.

    40 seats would not be enough for Corbyn to have a majority. He would nt be able to implement his programme. He would be at the mercy of the Liberals who would veto much of his left wing programme and could bring him down at any time.

    And in any case a 3 point lead in polls before an election is not the same thing as a 3 point lead on election day. Remember Miliband had a 12 point lead.
    And May had a 20% lead
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 702

    Scott_P said:
    If that is the despatches story it has been debunked and was pulled by channel 4.
    Seems unlikely it'd be on the front page of the Sunday Times then, unless there's another development
    It's not on the front page of the Sunday Times - at least not the copy I have seen
    Its embedded within the Gavin William piece on the Sunday Times
  • Looking more and more likely a move against May is coming...

    Evidence
    What more evidence to we need? Cabinet hopelessly divided, public disagreements and May unable to make a single decision - she's even csncelled her next big Brexit speech.
    No evidence - just speculation
  • Scott_P said:
    If that is the despatches story it has been debunked and was pulled by channel 4.
    Seems unlikely it'd be on the front page of the Sunday Times then, unless there's another development
    It's not on the front page of the Sunday Times - at least not the copy I have seen
    Its embedded within the Gavin William piece on the Sunday Times
    Well it is a non story - even channel 4 pulled it
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 2,220

    Looking more and more likely a move against May is coming...

    Surely we cannot have another year of this sort of plotting.
  • Foxy said:

    Looking more and more likely a move against May is coming...

    Surely we cannot have another year of this sort of plotting.
    You would hope not but who knows
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 702

    Scott_P said:
    If that is the despatches story it has been debunked and was pulled by channel 4.
    Seems unlikely it'd be on the front page of the Sunday Times then, unless there's another development
    It's not on the front page of the Sunday Times - at least not the copy I have seen
    Its embedded within the Gavin William piece on the Sunday Times
    Well it is a non story - even channel 4 pulled it
    What part of it is a non story? The cabinet minister threatening to set off a "bomb" of resignations, the two former cabinet ministers and 8 younger tory MPs writing letters to the 1922 committee about no confidence in May, the threat that May must sack Hammond?
This discussion has been closed.