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    stevefstevef Posts: 1,044
    Sean_F said:

    It's interesting how few people describe themselves as feminists. Almost everybody would agree with votes for women, womens' rights to own property, equal pay etc., but many people find feminism off-putting.

    I think probably feminists -especially the militant ones have themselves to blame for that. Instead of defining feminism as believing in gender equality, they tend to define it only as equality for women (when there are many examples where men need equality too -take the fact that prostate cancer kills more men than breast cancer kills women, yet only half the money is spent on it for research: how many feminists have you heard condemning that?)

    The word "feminist" is also a gender loaded word, implying for women only. A man sound silly saying he is a feminist. We need a new word to describe someone who believes in equality for men and women. (Equalist perhaps?)
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,115
    edited February 2018

    Since we seem to be drifting into Churchill territory, what's the general consensus here on the Darkest Hour film?

    Went to see it a week ago and liked it, but had some reservations.

    Undoubtedly a great performance by Gary Oldman. Many people find the Tube journey, with its perfectly constituted focus group, to be a bit crap.

    Oldman will probably win both the BAFTA and the Oscar. But Phantom Thread is a far better film and I think that Daniel Day-Lewis gives a far, far better performance. DDL would get my vote. If I were looking to back a surprise winner at the Oscars, it would be DDL. Oldman is 1/20 with Betfred, DDL is 25/1......that shows how nailed on it looks for Oldman.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited February 2018
    Get your geek on....show is live.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbSwFU6tY1c
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    stevef said:

    Sean_F said:

    It's interesting how few people describe themselves as feminists. Almost everybody would agree with votes for women, womens' rights to own property, equal pay etc., but many people find feminism off-putting.

    I think probably feminists -especially the militant ones have themselves to blame for that. Instead of defining feminism as believing in gender equality, they tend to define it only as equality for women (when there are many examples where men need equality too -take the fact that prostate cancer kills more men than breast cancer kills women, yet only half the money is spent on it for research: how many feminists have you heard condemning that?)

    The word "feminist" is also a gender loaded word, implying for women only. A man sound silly saying he is a feminist. We need a new word to describe someone who believes in equality for men and women. (Equalist perhaps?)
    That is a very misleading way of looking at cancer deaths. Breast cancer used to kill more women than prostate cancer killed men, by a long way. Since 2000, breast cancer deaths have been in steady decline and prostate cancer rates increasing. Figures released only last week showed crossover for the first time. In the 2 or 3 working days since then, it is hardly surprising nothing much has happened.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/02/02/prostate-cancer-kills-people-breast-cancer-first-time-new-figures/
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Get your geek on....show is live.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbSwFU6tY1c


    Fox have a live stream of the launch pad.

    You can watch the actual rocket sitting there... doing absolutely nothing.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrmVWmDBFFw

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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    Get your geek on....show is live.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbSwFU6tY1c

    Impressive the lengths some people will go to find a free parking space .
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,817
    Go Tessa!!!!!!!!!!! :D
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,994
    Sqquuuueeee!

    I'm rather over-excited. The dual landing back on land should be exciting (if only because it means the missions gone off quite well).
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,280

    Since we seem to be drifting into Churchill territory, what's the general consensus here on the Darkest Hour film?

    Went to see it a week ago and liked it, but had some reservations.

    Brilliant acting performance. Some pretty ordinary history.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896

    Get your geek on....show is live.

    ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbSwFU6tY1c

    10 minutes, looks like something is going to happen tonight, good luck and Godspeed to SpaceX.
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    Since we seem to be drifting into Churchill territory, what's the general consensus here on the Darkest Hour film?

    Went to see it a week ago and liked it, but had some reservations.

    Undoubtedly a great performance by Gary Oldman. Many people find the Tube journey, with its perfectly constituted focus group, to be a bit crap.

    Oldman will probably win both the BAFTA and the Oscar. But Phantom Thread is a far better film and I think that Daniel Day-Lewis gives a far, far better performance. DDL would get my vote. If I were looking to back a surprise winner at the Oscars, it would be DDL. Oldman is 1/20 with Betfred, DDL is 25/1......that shows how nailed on it looks for Oldman.
    It does look nailed on for Oldman. Personally I thought the stand out performance was K Scott-Thomas as Clem, but then I'm a bit of a KST groupie.

    The Tube scene was naff, but it didn't spoil the film, which is well worth a viewing, whatever your views of the central character.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/02/06/westminster-child-abuse-accuser-nick-charged-paedophile-offences/

    Biggest non-surprise of the year. Overcompensating fantasist turns out to be a scumbag.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,817
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,280
    Elliot said:

    The Atlantic slave trade and the rape of the Congo both happened before women got the vote. Universal healthcare, the internet and space exploration all happened afterwards.
    That's not funny though. I think you are missing the point.
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    stevefstevef Posts: 1,044

    stevef said:

    Sean_F said:

    It's interesting how few people describe themselves as feminists. Almost everybody would agree with votes for women, womens' rights to own property, equal pay etc., but many people find feminism off-putting.

    I think probably feminists -especially the militant ones have themselves to blame for that. Instead of defining feminism as believing in gender equality, they tend to define it only as equality for women (when there are many examples where men need equality too -take the fact that prostate cancer kills more men than breast cancer kills women, yet only half the money is spent on it for research: how many feminists have you heard condemning that?)

    The word "feminist" is also a gender loaded word, implying for women only. A man sound silly saying he is a feminist. We need a new word to describe someone who believes in equality for men and women. (Equalist perhaps?)
    That is a very misleading way of looking at cancer deaths. Breast cancer used to kill more women than prostate cancer killed men, by a long way. Since 2000, breast cancer deaths have been in steady decline and prostate cancer rates increasing. Figures released only last week showed crossover for the first time. In the 2 or 3 working days since then, it is hardly surprising nothing much has happened.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/02/02/prostate-cancer-kills-people-breast-cancer-first-time-new-figures/
    I think prostate cancer has been untreated unequally for a very long time in terms of research, and you never hear a feminist criticising it. Men have been historically untreated unfairly in all kinds of ways. In both World Wars only men could be called up to die in battle. On sinking ships I believe it is still women (and children) first. Women have considerably more rights now than men in divorce cases, the outcome of which is often very unfair to men. Lesbianism has never been illegal in Britain, but male homosexuality was illegal until 1967. Need I go on?

    Feminism's mistake (apart from the gender loaded word) has always been to go on and on about how women have been treated unfairly, but failing to address the way men have been treated unfairly. Even now in the media it seems perfectly acceptable to slag off men as a sex in a way which would be (rightly) deemed unacceptable when talking about women.
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847
    edited February 2018

    Since we seem to be drifting into Churchill territory, what's the general consensus here on the Darkest Hour film?

    Went to see it a week ago and liked it, but had some reservations.

    Undoubtedly a great performance by Gary Oldman. Many people find the Tube journey, with its perfectly constituted focus group, to be a bit crap.

    Oldman will probably win both the BAFTA and the Oscar. But Phantom Thread is a far better film and I think that Daniel Day-Lewis gives a far, far better performance. DDL would get my vote. If I were looking to back a surprise winner at the Oscars, it would be DDL. Oldman is 1/20 with Betfred, DDL is 25/1......that shows how nailed on it looks for Oldman.
    It’s an OK film with a great performance.
    But the performance itself is a kind of pastiche, and can’t be much more than that given the weakness in narrative and script.

    I’ve seen in twice. The first time Oldman awed me. The second time I got a bit annoyed by the rest of the film.

    The tube ride doesn’t actually bother me. Except when the black guy starts reciting poetry which was trite.

    And, given that the plot is to some extent about political machinations, I would have liked to have known more about the motivations of Halifax, Chamberlain, and for that matter Attlee. But they are all paper cut-outs really, to let Oldman/Churchill shine.

    The best bits are when Clemmy complains about money, and when he’s on the phone to Roosevelt.
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    Since we seem to be drifting into Churchill territory, what's the general consensus here on the Darkest Hour film?

    Went to see it a week ago and liked it, but had some reservations.

    Undoubtedly a great performance by Gary Oldman. Many people find the Tube journey, with its perfectly constituted focus group, to be a bit crap.

    Oldman will probably win both the BAFTA and the Oscar. But Phantom Thread is a far better film and I think that Daniel Day-Lewis gives a far, far better performance. DDL would get my vote. If I were looking to back a surprise winner at the Oscars, it would be DDL. Oldman is 1/20 with Betfred, DDL is 25/1......that shows how nailed on it looks for Oldman.
    The problem with the tube focus group is not as some have said that Churchill never used the tube but that it completely misses the thrust of Churchill's work in the wilderness years. It is the same flaw as in The Imitation Game (Cumberbatch as Turing) where a brilliantly acted Turing has an epiphany in the pub to use the bombe to do precisely what in real life he'd designed it to do. Brian Cox's Churchill film was arguably the same. We seem to be suffering from film makers jazzing up stories without first having understood them.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,280
    MaxPB said:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/02/06/westminster-child-abuse-accuser-nick-charged-paedophile-offences/

    Biggest non-surprise of the year. Overcompensating fantasist turns out to be a scumbag.

    The Matt on that page is superb.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    @OchEye FPT

    There was much more to the Hunt / Silver squeeze than you’ve said.

    In the end the US government decided to take them down - they changed the rules to flood the market
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    Since we seem to be drifting into Churchill territory, what's the general consensus here on the Darkest Hour film?

    Went to see it a week ago and liked it, but had some reservations.

    Undoubtedly a great performance by Gary Oldman. Many people find the Tube journey, with its perfectly constituted focus group, to be a bit crap.

    Oldman will probably win both the BAFTA and the Oscar. But Phantom Thread is a far better film and I think that Daniel Day-Lewis gives a far, far better performance. DDL would get my vote. If I were looking to back a surprise winner at the Oscars, it would be DDL. Oldman is 1/20 with Betfred, DDL is 25/1......that shows how nailed on it looks for Oldman.
    The problem with the tube focus group is not as some have said that Churchill never used the tube but that it completely misses the thrust of Churchill's work in the wilderness years. It is the same flaw as in The Imitation Game (Cumberbatch as Turing) where a brilliantly acted Turing has an epiphany in the pub to use the bombe to do precisely what in real life he'd designed it to do. Brian Cox's Churchill film was arguably the same. We seem to be suffering from film makers jazzing up stories without first having understood them.
    My problem with it was that it simply jarred. The scene might have been fine in another type of film about the subject but in this one it was just out of tune with the whole approach. It wasn't that it didn't happen, it's more that it could not possibly have happened or had that kind of effect if it had.

    And yes it undermines the more interesting aspect of Churchill's work between the wars.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,280

    Since we seem to be drifting into Churchill territory, what's the general consensus here on the Darkest Hour film?

    Went to see it a week ago and liked it, but had some reservations.

    Undoubtedly a great performance by Gary Oldman. Many people find the Tube journey, with its perfectly constituted focus group, to be a bit crap.

    Oldman will probably win both the BAFTA and the Oscar. But Phantom Thread is a far better film and I think that Daniel Day-Lewis gives a far, far better performance. DDL would get my vote. If I were looking to back a surprise winner at the Oscars, it would be DDL. Oldman is 1/20 with Betfred, DDL is 25/1......that shows how nailed on it looks for Oldman.
    It’s an OK film with a great performance.
    But the performance itself is a kind of pastiche, and can’t be much more than that given the weakness in narrative and script.

    I’ve seen in twice. The first time Oldman awed me. The second time I got a bit annoyed by the rest of the film.

    The tube ride doesn’t actually bother me. Except when the black guy starts reciting poetry which was trite.

    And, given that the plot is to some extent about political machinations, I would have liked to have known more about the motivations of Halifax, Chamberlain, and for that matter Attlee. But they are all paper cut-outs really, to let Oldman/Churchill shine.

    The best bits are when Clemmy complains about money, and when he’s on the phone to Roosevelt.
    The Roosevelt bit was really funny. Presumably to sell it to the American market.
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    Since we seem to be drifting into Churchill territory, what's the general consensus here on the Darkest Hour film?

    Went to see it a week ago and liked it, but had some reservations.

    Undoubtedly a great performance by Gary Oldman. Many people find the Tube journey, with its perfectly constituted focus group, to be a bit crap.

    Oldman will probably win both the BAFTA and the Oscar. But Phantom Thread is a far better film and I think that Daniel Day-Lewis gives a far, far better performance. DDL would get my vote. If I were looking to back a surprise winner at the Oscars, it would be DDL. Oldman is 1/20 with Betfred, DDL is 25/1......that shows how nailed on it looks for Oldman.
    It’s an OK film with a great performance.
    But the performance itself is a kind of pastiche, and can’t be much more than that given the weakness in narrative and script.

    I’ve seen in twice. The first time Oldman awed me. The second time I got a bit annoyed by the rest of the film.

    The tube ride doesn’t actually bother me. Except when the black guy starts reciting poetry which was trite.

    And, given that the plot is to some extent about political machinations, I would have liked to have known more about the motivations of Halifax, Chamberlain, and for that matter Attlee. But they are all paper cut-outs really, to let Oldman/Churchill shine.

    The best bits are when Clemmy complains about money, and when he’s on the phone to Roosevelt.
    You admired Pickup's portrayal of Chamberlain though, didn't you? Second best performance in the film.....after KST of course!
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    Some space launch - wow
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274
    DavidL said:

    Elliot said:

    The Atlantic slave trade and the rape of the Congo both happened before women got the vote. Universal healthcare, the internet and space exploration all happened afterwards.
    That's not funny though. I think you are missing the point.
    Nothing in the tweet is funny, either. He's just an oaf.
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    DavidL said:

    Since we seem to be drifting into Churchill territory, what's the general consensus here on the Darkest Hour film?

    Went to see it a week ago and liked it, but had some reservations.

    Undoubtedly a great performance by Gary Oldman. Many people find the Tube journey, with its perfectly constituted focus group, to be a bit crap.

    Oldman will probably win both the BAFTA and the Oscar. But Phantom Thread is a far better film and I think that Daniel Day-Lewis gives a far, far better performance. DDL would get my vote. If I were looking to back a surprise winner at the Oscars, it would be DDL. Oldman is 1/20 with Betfred, DDL is 25/1......that shows how nailed on it looks for Oldman.
    It’s an OK film with a great performance.
    But the performance itself is a kind of pastiche, and can’t be much more than that given the weakness in narrative and script.

    I’ve seen in twice. The first time Oldman awed me. The second time I got a bit annoyed by the rest of the film.

    The tube ride doesn’t actually bother me. Except when the black guy starts reciting poetry which was trite.

    And, given that the plot is to some extent about political machinations, I would have liked to have known more about the motivations of Halifax, Chamberlain, and for that matter Attlee. But they are all paper cut-outs really, to let Oldman/Churchill shine.

    The best bits are when Clemmy complains about money, and when he’s on the phone to Roosevelt.
    The Roosevelt bit was really funny. Presumably to sell it to the American market.
    The call never took place, of course, but as a shorthand way of indicating that the US couldn't help, and explaining why, it was very effective.
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    Elliot said:

    The Atlantic slave trade and the rape of the Congo both happened before women got the vote. Universal healthcare, the internet and space exploration all happened afterwards.
    That's not funny though. I think you are missing the point.
    Nothing in the tweet is funny, either. He's just an oaf.
    It is indeed completely devoid of anything akin to the humorous. Completely, do you hear?
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,611
    edited February 2018

    Since we seem to be drifting into Churchill territory, what's the general consensus here on the Darkest Hour film?

    Went to see it a week ago and liked it, but had some reservations.

    Undoubtedly a great performance by Gary Oldman. Many people find the Tube journey, with its perfectly constituted focus group, to be a bit crap.

    Oldman will probably win both the BAFTA and the Oscar. But Phantom Thread is a far better film and I think that Daniel Day-Lewis gives a far, far better performance. DDL would get my vote. If I were looking to back a surprise winner at the Oscars, it would be DDL. Oldman is 1/20 with Betfred, DDL is 25/1......that shows how nailed on it looks for Oldman.
    It’s an OK film with a great performance.
    But the performance itself is a kind of pastiche, and can’t be much more than that given the weakness in narrative and script.

    I’ve seen in twice. The first time Oldman awed me. The second time I got a bit annoyed by the rest of the film.

    The tube ride doesn’t actually bother me. Except when the black guy starts reciting poetry which was trite.

    And, given that the plot is to some extent about political machinations, I would have liked to have known more about the motivations of Halifax, Chamberlain, and for that matter Attlee. But they are all paper cut-outs really, to let Oldman/Churchill shine.

    The best bits are when Clemmy complains about money, and when he’s on the phone to Roosevelt.
    I would agree. We learn very little about why so many Tories favoured Halifax over Churchill, or why Attlee insisted not Halifax. A great performance, but really nothing more than a vessel as a film.

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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,280
    Ishmael_Z said:

    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    Elliot said:

    The Atlantic slave trade and the rape of the Congo both happened before women got the vote. Universal healthcare, the internet and space exploration all happened afterwards.
    That's not funny though. I think you are missing the point.
    Nothing in the tweet is funny, either. He's just an oaf.
    It is indeed completely devoid of anything akin to the humorous. Completely, do you hear?
    My wife laughed.
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Watching those two boosters land together. Wow.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896
    Wow, that was quite something.
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    PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    Omnium said:

    LibDem politics must be a nightmare.
    They're the only party that can point to unequivocal success in government. And yet, they don't bother.
    What they actually do is tart themselves up and promise some sort of favours to another party that has decided to line up behind the stupidest man in Christendom.
    Apart from those slight oddities.. They really should be the natural recipients of my vote, and yet they've never even been close to consideration.

    What sort of favours are the Lib Dems promising, Mr Omnium? This is the first I have heard of them.

    I think you must have been reading to many briefings from Conservative Central Office.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,836
    stevef said:

    Sean_F said:

    It's interesting how few people describe themselves as feminists. Almost everybody would agree with votes for women, womens' rights to own property, equal pay etc., but many people find feminism off-putting.

    I think probably feminists -especially the militant ones have themselves to blame for that. Instead of defining feminism as believing in gender equality, they tend to define it only as equality for women (when there are many examples where men need equality too -take the fact that prostate cancer kills more men than breast cancer kills women, yet only half the money is spent on it for research: how many feminists have you heard condemning that?)

    The word "feminist" is also a gender loaded word, implying for women only. A man sound silly saying he is a feminist. We need a new word to describe someone who believes in equality for men and women. (Equalist perhaps?)
    I think that a lot of people - men and women - see feminism as meaning dislike for men. It's similar to the position of the Conservatives in the 2000's. Many people agreed with stated policies, until being told that the Conservatives advocated them.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited February 2018
    Sandpit said:

    Wow, that was quite something.

    I believe Trump has a word for that, it was BIGLY....
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    Watching those two boosters land together. Wow.

    It's like watching Thunderbirds, except this is really happening.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    edited February 2018
    Amazing. And we're wasting time with Brexit and nostalgia driven politics.

    Others are shaping the future .

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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Sandpit said:

    Wow, that was quite something.

    A triumph for private enterprise !

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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896


    Watching those two boosters land together. Wow.

    https://twitter.com/SpaceX/status/960980119312453632
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    jayfdeejayfdee Posts: 618


    Watching those two boosters land together. Wow.

    Looked like a video game, incredible, glad I saw it live, Musk is the Man.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited February 2018
    I presume everybody is getting really excited about Sarah Sanders White House briefing, right?
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    Jonathan said:

    Amazing. And we're wasting time with Brexit and nostalgia driven politics.

    Others are shaping the future .

    The private sector, no less ;)
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    Ishmael_Z said:

    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    Elliot said:

    The Atlantic slave trade and the rape of the Congo both happened before women got the vote. Universal healthcare, the internet and space exploration all happened afterwards.
    That's not funny though. I think you are missing the point.
    Nothing in the tweet is funny, either. He's just an oaf.
    It is indeed completely devoid of anything akin to the humorous. Completely, do you hear?
    It is not funny but is clearly intended as a joke, and as a pastiche of the Orson Welles/Third Man line about cuckoo clocks.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,994
    TGOHF said:

    Sandpit said:

    Wow, that was quite something.

    A triumph for private enterprise !
    ... private enterprise paid for by the US government ;)

    (SpaceX would have gone under years ago if it had not been for a timely launch and development contract from NASA. SpaceX would be impossible in a country without the existence of organisation such as NASA. But now is not the time for such quibbles.)

    A couple of decades ago I watched videos of the DC-X Clipper doing vertical landings, and thought I saw the future. It was then abandoned. Then I saw Masten and Armadillo doing vertical landings, and wondered if they would ever scale up.

    But tonight was something else. In the film Gattacca, you see rockets launch regularly from the complex as a sort-of futuristic sci-fi vision. I *never* thought we would have simultaneous landings.

    Wow.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,836
    edited February 2018
    Foxy said:

    Since we seem to be drifting into Churchill territory, what's the general consensus here on the Darkest Hour film?

    Went to see it a week ago and liked it, but had some reservations.

    Undoubtedly a great performance by Gary Oldman. Many people find the Tube journey, with its perfectly constituted focus group, to be a bit crap.

    Oldman will probably win both the BAFTA and the Oscar. But Phantom Thread is a far better film and I think that Daniel Day-Lewis gives a far, far better performance. DDL would get my vote. If I were looking to back a surprise winner at the Oscars, it would be DDL. Oldman is 1/20 with Betfred, DDL is 25/1......that shows how nailed on it looks for Oldman.
    It’s an OK film with a great performance.
    But the performance itself is a kind of pastiche, and can’t be much more than that given the weakness in narrative and script.

    I’ve seen in twice. The first time Oldman awed me. The second time I got a bit annoyed by the rest of the film.

    The tube ride doesn’t actually bother me. Except when the black guy starts reciting poetry which was trite.

    And, given that the plot is to some extent about political machinations, I would have liked to have known more about the motivations of Halifax, Chamberlain, and for that matter Attlee. But they are all paper cut-outs really, to let Oldman/Churchill shine.

    The best bits are when Clemmy complains about money, and when he’s on the phone to Roosevelt.
    I would agree. We learn very little about why so many Tories favoured Halifax over Churchill, or why Attlee insisted not Halifax. A great performance, but really nothing more than a vessel as a film.

    I think that producers think that viewers will find political intrigue boring. Whereas done well, it's fascinating. I'd cite Conspiracy, with Kenneth Branagh as Heydrich.
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    No news if center core has landed properly yet.

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    I have no idea why Hollywood actresses are attracted to Elon Musk....
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847

    Since we seem to be drifting into Churchill territory, what's the general consensus here on the Darkest Hour film?

    Went to see it a week ago and liked it, but had some reservations.

    Undoubtedly a great performance by Gary Oldman. Many people find the Tube journey, with its perfectly constituted focus group, to be a bit crap.

    Oldman will probably win both the BAFTA and the Oscar. But Phantom Thread is a far better film and I think that Daniel Day-Lewis gives a far, far better performance. DDL would get my vote. If I were looking to back a surprise winner at the Oscars, it would be DDL. Oldman is 1/20 with Betfred, DDL is 25/1......that shows how nailed on it looks for Oldman.
    It’s an OK film with a great performance.
    But the performance itself is a kind of pastiche, and can’t be much more than that given the weakness in narrative and script.

    I’ve seen in twice. The first time Oldman awed me. The second time I got a bit annoyed by the rest of the film.

    The tube ride doesn’t actually bother me. Except when the black guy starts reciting poetry which was trite.

    And, given that the plot is to some extent about political machinations, I would have liked to have known more about the motivations of Halifax, Chamberlain, and for that matter Attlee. But they are all paper cut-outs really, to let Oldman/Churchill shine.

    The best bits are when Clemmy complains about money, and when he’s on the phone to Roosevelt.
    You admired Pickup's portrayal of Chamberlain though, didn't you? Second best performance in the film.....after KST of course!
    Actually, yes, he was good. And I thought the guy who played the King was good too. Just the script was formulaic.

    I have very little idea how accurate any of the film was - to my shame.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    RobD said:

    Jonathan said:

    Amazing. And we're wasting time with Brexit and nostalgia driven politics.

    Others are shaping the future .

    The private sector, no less ;)
    Indeed when it’s not inventing all of the new drugs and surgical instruments for the NHS it sending rockets into space.

    We should privatise Brexit.
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Ishmael_Z said:

    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    Elliot said:

    The Atlantic slave trade and the rape of the Congo both happened before women got the vote. Universal healthcare, the internet and space exploration all happened afterwards.
    That's not funny though. I think you are missing the point.
    Nothing in the tweet is funny, either. He's just an oaf.
    It is indeed completely devoid of anything akin to the humorous. Completely, do you hear?
    It is not funny but is clearly intended as a joke, and as a pastiche of the Orson Welles/Third Man line about cuckoo clocks.
    Holy phuck, has this site been taken over by cyborgs? For the avoidance of doubt, when I said "it is not funny", I meant "it is funny". Because it is.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited February 2018
    Westminster child abuse accuser 'Nick' is charged with paedophile offences

    The man, who can only be identified as Nick, was arrested last year and has already appeared in court, charged with multiple offences relating to allegations of making and possessing hundreds of indecent images of children.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/02/06/westminster-child-abuse-accuser-nick-charged-paedophile-offences/
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    jayfdeejayfdee Posts: 618


    No news if center core has landed properly yet.

    2 out of 3 is good enough, but 3 is the icing on the cake..
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited February 2018
    jayfdee said:


    No news if center core has landed properly yet.

    2 out of 3 is good enough, but 3 is the icing on the cake..
    Good job it isn't North Korea....otherwise those responsible for the mistake will be strapped inside the next one.
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    ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516
    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Since we seem to be drifting into Churchill territory, what's the general consensus here on the Darkest Hour film?

    Went to see it a week ago and liked it, but had some reservations.

    Undoubtedly a great performance by Gary Oldman. Many people find the Tube journey, with its perfectly constituted focus group, to be a bit crap.

    Oldman will probably win both the BAFTA and the Oscar. But Phantom Thread is a far better film and I think that Daniel Day-Lewis gives a far, far better performance. DDL would get my vote. If I were looking to back a surprise winner at the Oscars, it would be DDL. Oldman is 1/20 with Betfred, DDL is 25/1......that shows how nailed on it looks for Oldman.
    It’s an OK film with a great performance.
    But the performance itself is a kind of pastiche, and can’t be much more than that given the weakness in narrative and script.

    I’ve seen in twice. The first time Oldman awed me. The second time I got a bit annoyed by the rest of the film.

    The tube ride doesn’t actually bother me. Except when the black guy starts reciting poetry which was trite.

    And, given that the plot is to some extent about political machinations, I would have liked to have known more about the motivations of Halifax, Chamberlain, and for that matter Attlee. But they are all paper cut-outs really, to let Oldman/Churchill shine.

    The best bits are when Clemmy complains about money, and when he’s on the phone to Roosevelt.
    I would agree. We learn very little about why so many Tories favoured Halifax over Churchill, or why Attlee insisted not Halifax. A great performance, but really nothing more than a vessel as a film.

    I think that producers think that viewers will find political intrigue boring. Whereas done well, it's fascinating. I'd cite Conspiracy, with Kenneth Branagh as Heydrich.
    Political intrigue was why Game of Thrones used to be so good.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205

    Since we seem to be drifting into Churchill territory, what's the general consensus here on the Darkest Hour film?

    Went to see it a week ago and liked it, but had some reservations.

    Undoubtedly a great performance by Gary Oldman. Many people find the Tube journey, with its perfectly constituted focus group, to be a bit crap.

    Oldman will probably win both the BAFTA and the Oscar. But Phantom Thread is a far better film and I think that Daniel Day-Lewis gives a far, far better performance. DDL would get my vote. If I were looking to back a surprise winner at the Oscars, it would be DDL. Oldman is 1/20 with Betfred, DDL is 25/1......that shows how nailed on it looks for Oldman.
    I am probably going to be lynched. But here goes. Shouldn't Oldman's award be for Best Make Up?
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    ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516
    Jonathan said:

    Amazing. And we're wasting time with Brexit and nostalgia driven politics.

    Others are shaping the future .

    In this very thread, polling was produced that showed less than 15% of Leave voters was nostalgic about the Empire, so that old chestnut can finally be put to rest. Of course, I suspect ardent Remainers have such prejudice about Leave voters no degree of evidence will change their minds.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,836

    Westminster child abuse accuser 'Nick' is charged with paedophile offences

    The man, who can only be identified as Nick, was arrested last year and has already appeared in court, charged with multiple offences relating to allegations of making and possessing hundreds of indecent images of children.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/02/06/westminster-child-abuse-accuser-nick-charged-paedophile-offences/

    Nick is an evil shit.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited February 2018
    Sean_F said:

    Westminster child abuse accuser 'Nick' is charged with paedophile offences

    The man, who can only be identified as Nick, was arrested last year and has already appeared in court, charged with multiple offences relating to allegations of making and possessing hundreds of indecent images of children.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/02/06/westminster-child-abuse-accuser-nick-charged-paedophile-offences/

    Nick is an evil shit.
    Some of the offences are alleged to have happened during the same period he was talking to Operation Midland detectives.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42965637
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    It seems that the UK agricultural sector is not as dependent upon migrant labour as we are given to understand:

    ' the APS estimate of resident workers in the agricultural sector for the year to June 2016 was 346,000. Of these, 18,000 were estimated to be from another European Union country (except Ireland). '

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/articles/labourintheagricultureindustry/2018-02-06

    There are also seasonal workers, who peak at about 65,000, and two thirds of whom come from Romania or Bulgaria.

    By comparison there are currently about 80,000 18-24 year olds who have been unemployed for over 12 months.
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    Labour = Notts County :lol:
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    jayfdeejayfdee Posts: 618
    Sandpit said:


    Watching those two boosters land together. Wow.

    https://twitter.com/SpaceX/status/960980119312453632
    What an Epic shot, amazing.
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    Hope everyone remembers that it's also the 100th anniversary of when working class blokes also got the vote ;)
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,060
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    Where is Rochdale - is it far above Milton Keynes?

    Just asking.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    DavidL said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    Elliot said:

    The Atlantic slave trade and the rape of the Congo both happened before women got the vote. Universal healthcare, the internet and space exploration all happened afterwards.
    That's not funny though. I think you are missing the point.
    Nothing in the tweet is funny, either. He's just an oaf.
    It is indeed completely devoid of anything akin to the humorous. Completely, do you hear?
    My wife laughed.
    Orson Welles in The Third Man it wasn't.


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    rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    Hope everyone remembers that it's also the 100th anniversary of when working class blokes also got the vote ;)

    IIRC most working-class men already had the vote. It was domestic servants that were the largest group of men to be enfranchised in 1918.
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    TomsToms Posts: 2,478

    Hope everyone remembers that it's also the 100th anniversary of when working class blokes also got the vote ;)

    Rather more recently than that in Ulster I suspect.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/recent/troubles/the_troubles_article_01.shtml
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    edited February 2018

    Hope everyone remembers that it's also the 100th anniversary of when working class blokes also got the vote ;)

    And it only took a mere 700k deaths to get it, including all four of my great grandfathers.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190

    Where is Rochdale - is it far above Milton Keynes?

    Just asking.

    Why do you need to know, you're not a Newport fan are you?
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,836
    rpjs said:

    Hope everyone remembers that it's also the 100th anniversary of when working class blokes also got the vote ;)

    IIRC most working-class men already had the vote. It was domestic servants that were the largest group of men to be enfranchised in 1918.
    About 40% of adult males did not have the vote until 1918.
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    RhubarbRhubarb Posts: 359
    John_M said:

    Hope everyone remembers that it's also the 100th anniversary of when working class blokes also got the vote ;)

    And it only took a mere 700k deaths to get it, including all four of my great grandfathers.
    Compared to Russia, that was pretty cheap.
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    calumcalum Posts: 3,046
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    Rhubarb said:

    John_M said:

    Hope everyone remembers that it's also the 100th anniversary of when working class blokes also got the vote ;)

    And it only took a mere 700k deaths to get it, including all four of my great grandfathers.
    Compared to Russia, that was pretty cheap.
    Russian casualties (as a proportion of their population) were slightly lower than the UK's. In absolute terms, of course.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,611

    Where is Rochdale - is it far above Milton Keynes?

    Just asking.

    Take the Jubilee line to Stanmore, then get a cab. It can't be far.
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    Where is Rochdale - is it far above Milton Keynes?

    Just asking.

    Rochdale is in the wild North West.

    Really hate Spurs and their diving trio, Dele Alli, Erik Lamela, and the Arsenal supporting Harry Kane.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,060
    calum said:
    Jacob Cream-Crackers thinks it takes the biscuit.
    https://twitter.com/owenjbennett/status/960965013816201218
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    RhubarbRhubarb Posts: 359
    John_M said:

    Rhubarb said:

    John_M said:

    Hope everyone remembers that it's also the 100th anniversary of when working class blokes also got the vote ;)

    And it only took a mere 700k deaths to get it, including all four of my great grandfathers.
    Compared to Russia, that was pretty cheap.
    Russian casualties (as a proportion of their population) were slightly lower than the UK's. In absolute terms, of course.
    I was more thinking about the revolution, the civil war(s) and the 70+ years of dictatorship.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,836

    It seems that the UK agricultural sector is not as dependent upon migrant labour as we are given to understand:

    ' the APS estimate of resident workers in the agricultural sector for the year to June 2016 was 346,000. Of these, 18,000 were estimated to be from another European Union country (except Ireland). '

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/articles/labourintheagricultureindustry/2018-02-06

    There are also seasonal workers, who peak at about 65,000, and two thirds of whom come from Romania or Bulgaria.

    By comparison there are currently about 80,000 18-24 year olds who have been unemployed for over 12 months.

    In Northern Ireland, nearly 5% of workers are employed in agriculture. That's a remarkably high number.
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    Where is Rochdale - is it far above Milton Keynes?

    Just asking.

    Rochdale is in the wild North West.

    Really hate Spurs and their diving trio, Dele Alli, Erik Lamela, and the Arsenal supporting Harry Kane.
    I don’t patricularly get the impression that Dele Alli is popular. If anything he seems to be pretty disliked.
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    Noel Edmonds has now set up an online radio station called Positively Noel.

    Between songs, he plays messages about his case and encourages Lloyds staff to call his whistleblowing hotline. The songs all relate to the TV and radio host's campaign in some way - including Lunchmoney Lewis's Bills, and Don't Give Up by Kate Bush and Peter Gabriel.

    The music is interspersed with anti-banking messages, mock Lloyds adverts and appeals for anyone who has had similar experiences to get in touch

    http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-42963128

    I think I will give it a miss thanks...
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586

    TGOHF said:

    Sandpit said:

    Wow, that was quite something.

    A triumph for private enterprise !
    ... private enterprise paid for by the US government ;)

    (SpaceX would have gone under years ago if it had not been for a timely launch and development contract from NASA. SpaceX would be impossible in a country without the existence of organisation such as NASA. But now is not the time for such quibbles.)

    A couple of decades ago I watched videos of the DC-X Clipper doing vertical landings, and thought I saw the future. It was then abandoned. Then I saw Masten and Armadillo doing vertical landings, and wondered if they would ever scale up.

    But tonight was something else. In the film Gattacca, you see rockets launch regularly from the complex as a sort-of futuristic sci-fi vision. I *never* thought we would have simultaneous landings.

    Wow.
    True - but is not the Heavy funded entirely at the company's own risk ?

    And NASA's budget is only around $18-19bn, an amount almost within our capability ..... though of course the biggest likely customer for the Heavy is the far better funded US military and/or intelligence.

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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,426
    edited February 2018

    Where is Rochdale - is it far above Milton Keynes?

    Just asking.

    Rochdale is in the wild North West.

    Really hate Spurs and their diving trio, Dele Alli, Erik Lamela, and the Arsenal supporting Harry Kane.
    I don’t patricularly get the impression that Dele Alli is popular. If anything he seems to be pretty disliked.
    Not only is he a diver, he commits some really dangerous leg breaking tackles.

    Within a couple of years his downward spiral will see him playing for a
    lower league club like Blackburn Rovers or Everton.
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    Where is Rochdale - is it far above Milton Keynes?

    Just asking.

    Rochdale is in the wild North West.

    Really hate Spurs and their diving trio, Dele Alli, Erik Lamela, and the Arsenal supporting Harry Kane.
    Perhaps they think if they dive as often as Gareth Bale did they'll get a move to Real Madrid as well.
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    Foxy said:

    Where is Rochdale - is it far above Milton Keynes?

    Just asking.

    Take the Jubilee line to Stanmore, then get a cab. It can't be far.
    Take the Metrolink, I think you mean :lol:
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited February 2018
    Jonathan said:

    May was twenty points ahead. We know what happened next.

    I expect current polls are irrelevant to the machinations of the angry hoards behind her.

    You know the last 15 polls before the election underestimated the Tory share at 42.8% compared to the 43.5% they actually got?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_Kingdom_general_election,_2017#2017
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    John_M said:

    Hope everyone remembers that it's also the 100th anniversary of when working class blokes also got the vote ;)

    And it only took a mere 700k deaths to get it, including all four of my great grandfathers.
    We’ve documented 72 family members killed in the Great War (including my great grandfather)
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    Where is Rochdale - is it far above Milton Keynes?

    Just asking.

    Rochdale is in the wild North West.

    Really hate Spurs and their diving trio, Dele Alli, Erik Lamela, and the Arsenal supporting Harry Kane.
    Perhaps they think if they dive as often as Gareth Bale did they'll get a move to Real Madrid as well.
    All overrated, they'll be lucky to play for Real Salt Lake.
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    Where is Rochdale - is it far above Milton Keynes?

    Just asking.

    Rochdale is in the wild North West.

    Really hate Spurs and their diving trio, Dele Alli, Erik Lamela, and the Arsenal supporting Harry Kane.
    Perhaps they think if they dive as often as Gareth Bale did they'll get a move to Real Madrid as well.
    All overrated, they'll be lucky to play for Real Salt Lake.
    Real Salt Lake...who rrrrrr they....hhhhh'accctly.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,426
    edited February 2018
    AndyJS said:

    Jonathan said:

    May was twenty points ahead. We know what happened next.

    I expect current polls are irrelevant to the machinations of the angry hoards behind her.

    You know the last 15 polls before the election underestimated the Tory share at 42.8% compared to the 43.5% they actually got?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_Kingdom_general_election,_2017#2017
    How many of those polls underestimated Labour?
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    Charles said:

    John_M said:

    Hope everyone remembers that it's also the 100th anniversary of when working class blokes also got the vote ;)

    And it only took a mere 700k deaths to get it, including all four of my great grandfathers.
    We’ve documented 72 family members killed in the Great War (including my great grandfather)
    I concede the field...
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,994
    Livestreaming from orbit, with the earth reflecting in the door.

    Wow.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBr2kKAHN6M
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    Sean_F said:

    It seems that the UK agricultural sector is not as dependent upon migrant labour as we are given to understand:

    ' the APS estimate of resident workers in the agricultural sector for the year to June 2016 was 346,000. Of these, 18,000 were estimated to be from another European Union country (except Ireland). '

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/articles/labourintheagricultureindustry/2018-02-06

    There are also seasonal workers, who peak at about 65,000, and two thirds of whom come from Romania or Bulgaria.

    By comparison there are currently about 80,000 18-24 year olds who have been unemployed for over 12 months.

    In Northern Ireland, nearly 5% of workers are employed in agriculture. That's a remarkably high number.
    Its a similar percentage in the South as well.

    A low population density will lead to a higher proprtion of farmers and land has resonance in Ireland.

    According to Trading Economics its over 10% in Poland, almost 20% in Serbia and about an incredible 25% in Romania.
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    SeanT said:

    Remember when Brexit was going to destroy the London property market?

    twitter.com/thomasknox/status/960994749363744769

    Just wait until Commie Corbyn gets in and steals their second homes....
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,994
    edited February 2018
    Nigelb said:

    TGOHF said:

    Sandpit said:

    Wow, that was quite something.

    A triumph for private enterprise !
    ... private enterprise paid for by the US government ;)

    (SpaceX would have gone under years ago if it had not been for a timely launch and development contract from NASA. SpaceX would be impossible in a country without the existence of organisation such as NASA. But now is not the time for such quibbles.)

    A couple of decades ago I watched videos of the DC-X Clipper doing vertical landings, and thought I saw the future. It was then abandoned. Then I saw Masten and Armadillo doing vertical landings, and wondered if they would ever scale up.

    But tonight was something else. In the film Gattacca, you see rockets launch regularly from the complex as a sort-of futuristic sci-fi vision. I *never* thought we would have simultaneous landings.

    Wow.
    True - but is not the Heavy funded entirely at the company's own risk ?

    And NASA's budget is only around $18-19bn, an amount almost within our capability ..... though of course the biggest likely customer for the Heavy is the far better funded US military and/or intelligence.
    NASA have complained that people who should be working on their funded projects (e.g. Dragon 2) are also working on other projects - though that's legal, and they were more worried about the risk aspects than cost.

    AIUI, the Falcon 1 and Falcon 9 cost a pittance to build: there's a study somewhere that shows that SpaceX built them for fraction (fifth?) of the cost that NASA would have built the same capability for. (at least to the time of the report).

    SpaceX's main cost was in reusability, which seems to have been about a billion - much more than the cost of designing the rockets in the first place!

    (It also makes you wonder what else Bezos is doing at Blue Origin if he's chucking a billion a year at that company).

    Edit: from 2011:
    https://www.nasa.gov/pdf/586023main_8-3-11_NAFCOM.pdf
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    SeanT said:

    Remember when Brexit was going to destroy the London property market? 2017 saw record investment, and London reclaimed the number 1 golden crown for international investment, from NYC

    https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/960994749363744769

    I remember you painfully vote Leave in the fear that your flat would fall in value.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,060
    SeanT said:

    Remember when Brexit was going to destroy the London property market? 2017 saw record investment, and London reclaimed the number 1 golden crown for international investment, from NYC

    That was @rcs1000's prediction, wasn't it?
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    SeanT said:

    Remember when Brexit was going to destroy the London property market? 2017 saw record investment, and London reclaimed the number 1 golden crown for international investment, from NYC

    https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/960994749363744769

    I remember you painfully vote Leave in the fear that your flat would fall in value.
    To be fair it was quite refreshing to read Sean passionately backing Leave while seeming to tear his hair out that it will be bad for himself financially.

    It's good to see people back things not because they believe its in their own immediate self-interest.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Westminster child abuse accuser 'Nick' is charged with paedophile offences

    The man, who can only be identified as Nick, was arrested last year and has already appeared in court, charged with multiple offences relating to allegations of making and possessing hundreds of indecent images of children.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/02/06/westminster-child-abuse-accuser-nick-charged-paedophile-offences/

    No comment.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,611

    SeanT said:

    Remember when Brexit was going to destroy the London property market?

    twitter.com/thomasknox/status/960994749363744769

    Just wait until Commie Corbyn gets in and steals their second homes....
    Another excellent reason to vote Labour :)
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    EU in real trouble tonight over their threat to the punish UK during transition with condemnation from leavers but also remainers.

    The EU are shooting themselves in the foot over this and will get widespread condemnation. Looks as if they are jeopardising their 50 billion
This discussion has been closed.