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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » There’s greater than a 1.25% chance that Emily Thornberry will

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  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    What a result Wigan amazing

    Almost as good as my come from behind 4-3 win at FIFA today.
  • Good bet. It’s not an 80/1 shot.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,056
    Alistair said:

    What a result Wigan amazing

    Almost as good as my come from behind 4-3 win at FIFA today.
    Can I point out a little prediction of mine :)

    https://www.foxestalk.co.uk/topic/115010-fa-cup-quater-final-draw-745pm-uk-time/?do=findComment&comment=4663848
  • glwglw Posts: 9,535
    Foxy said:

    In the cold war period the "useful idiots" were on the left, but for the last decade, the right.

    I disagree. It's not about "what X wants" in terms of policy outcomes, simply sowing discord is highly desirable in itself, and I would say easier to achieve than trying to influence policy in a particular direction.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,056
    glw said:

    Foxy said:

    In the cold war period the "useful idiots" were on the left, but for the last decade, the right.

    I disagree. It's not about "what X wants" in terms of policy outcomes, simply sowing discord is highly desirable in itself, and I would say easier to achieve than trying to influence policy in a particular direction.
    Do you think the Russians wanted Brexit, and trolled for it to set the millieu?
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,281
    No guarantee new Pennsylvania map gets used.

    One Judge dissented - saying that as lawmakers could not agree on a new map then the old (unconstitutional) map should be used one more time.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,535
    Foxy said:

    Do you think the Russians wanted Brexit, and trolled for it to set the millieu?

    For sure. The Russians support whatever causes the most trouble for the UK goverment. Any change is disruptive, no matter what the outcome is in the long term. So Brexit suits Russia. I don't think they made much difference, as it's not as though the UK was a big fan of the EU up until 2016.
  • glw said:

    Foxy said:

    Do you think the Russians wanted Brexit, and trolled for it to set the millieu?

    For sure. The Russians support whatever causes the most trouble for the UK goverment. Any change is disruptive, no matter what the outcome is in the long term. So Brexit suits Russia. I don't think they made much difference, as it's not as though the UK was a big fan of the EU up until 2016.
    My real name is Dennis Sunilovski. Home for me is a dacha just outside the Russian spa town of Novosunilsk.
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    SeanT said:

    SeanT has waded into the Corbyn spat on twitter.

    I have. I was careful not to repeat the silly accusation that Corbyn sold secrets. But did he consort - chat - with Warsaw Pact intelligence agencies? - the evidence, to me, seems overwhelming that he did. The fact they found him "too stupid" to be that useful is the clincher. Because he is a stupid man. So they obviously met him and knew him well.

    Plus he is a friend of Iran, the IRA, Hamas, all the enemies of Britain. All this is on record.

    I have called him a traitor on Twitter. I doubt if he cares, or is even aware, I am pretty sure he won't sue, however. Because a trawl of the evidence would not be good. For him.

    Probably hasn't read any of your books either ...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    glw said:

    Foxy said:

    Do you think the Russians wanted Brexit, and trolled for it to set the millieu?

    For sure. The Russians support whatever causes the most trouble for the UK goverment. Any change is disruptive, no matter what the outcome is in the long term. So Brexit suits Russia. I don't think they made much difference, as it's not as though the UK was a big fan of the EU up until 2016.
    My real name is Dennis Sunilovski. Home for me is a dacha just outside the Russian spa town of Novosunilsk.
    Wait, your name and the town you live in both contain 'Sunil'?

    Not buying it, comrade!

    Although google does suggest an autocorrect of Novosibirsk, third largest city in Russia and the largest in Asian Russia, so I think an investigation is necessary to determine if you are telling the truth.
  • kle4 said:

    glw said:

    Foxy said:

    Do you think the Russians wanted Brexit, and trolled for it to set the millieu?

    For sure. The Russians support whatever causes the most trouble for the UK goverment. Any change is disruptive, no matter what the outcome is in the long term. So Brexit suits Russia. I don't think they made much difference, as it's not as though the UK was a big fan of the EU up until 2016.
    My real name is Dennis Sunilovski. Home for me is a dacha just outside the Russian spa town of Novosunilsk.
    Wait, your name and the town you live in both contain 'Sunil'?

    Not buying it, comrade!

    Although google does suggest an autocorrect of Novosibirsk, third largest city in Russia and the largest in Asian Russia, so I think an investigation is necessary to determine if you are telling the truth.
    Google is just American lies, Tovarish!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,274
    glw said:

    Foxy said:

    Do you think the Russians wanted Brexit, and trolled for it to set the millieu?

    For sure. The Russians support whatever causes the most trouble for the UK goverment. Any change is disruptive, no matter what the outcome is in the long term. So Brexit suits Russia. I don't think they made much difference, as it's not as though the UK was a big fan of the EU up until 2016.
    If they only made a 2% difference they made a massive difference!
  • glwglw Posts: 9,535

    If they only made a 2% difference they made a massive difference!

    It might even have cancelled out all the immediate recession and punishment budget nonsense from the Remain side.
  • Telegraph reporting MP's are to call the alleged spy to the commons to detail his meetings with labour MP's
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    Corbyn is clearly determined to lead Labour into the next general election as are his team.

    If he wins he will be PM, if he loses Thornberry is now too closely associated with him to offer a significant chsnge
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,056

    glw said:

    Foxy said:

    Do you think the Russians wanted Brexit, and trolled for it to set the millieu?

    For sure. The Russians support whatever causes the most trouble for the UK goverment. Any change is disruptive, no matter what the outcome is in the long term. So Brexit suits Russia. I don't think they made much difference, as it's not as though the UK was a big fan of the EU up until 2016.
    If they only made a 2% difference they made a massive difference!
    Life inside a Russian troll factory:

    https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/965408156624019456
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,722

    Telegraph reporting MP's are to call the alleged spy to the commons to detail his meetings with labour MP's

    Perhaps he could organize another Live Aid whilst he is here
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,056

    Telegraph reporting MP's are to call the alleged spy to the commons to detail his meetings with labour MP's

    Perhaps he can pick up the slack and organise another Live Aid whilewhe passes through.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    stevef said:

    If only it were true.

    If Emily Thornberry became Labour leader, I would support the Labour Party again and we would have a decent mainstream Labour leadership once more.

    Thornberry is no Corbynista. She's been loyal to the dreadful Corbyn but she isnt from the hard left. For the first time since John Smith died in 1994 we would have a Labour leader on the mainstream, free from the factions of Blairite right and Corbynite hard Marxist left.

    Be in no doubt however, Thornberry as leader would mean the vile Mr McDonnell and the hopeless Diane Abbott going too. And eventually she would have to confront and cleanse the party of the poison that is Momentum.

    Alas, I doubt if Thornberry will take over soon. Corbyn loves the Stalinist adulation, the youth movements, the songs to the Leader, the Messianic adulation. He is a vain posturing political pygmy but one I suspect who will go on dragging his party down to destruction.

    Neither Brown nor Ed Miliband were Blairite right or Corbynista left
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    Apparently Theresa May has a Physics A Level she disclosed on BBC News for those who say we need more scientists as politicians
  • Telegraph reporting MP's are to call the alleged spy to the commons to detail his meetings with labour MP's

    Perhaps he could organize another Live Aid whilst he is here
    Do you think it might be time for us to have a good night's rest
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,722

    Telegraph reporting MP's are to call the alleged spy to the commons to detail his meetings with labour MP's

    Perhaps he could organize another Live Aid whilst he is here
    Do you think it might be time for us to have a good night's rest
    I do nighty night darling xxx
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    HYUFD said:

    Apparently Theresa May has a Physics A Level she disclosed on BBC News for those who say we need more scientists as politicians

    I have a Physics A-Level as well - you can skate through surprisingly well with little scientific knowledge. I had to work harder for that A-Level though than any other, and yet received my lowest grade though, forshame.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited February 2018
    Currant Bun doubling down...

    New archive files allege the then backbench MP was one of the top contacts of Czech State Security agents

    LABOUR chief Jeremy Corbyn had an “active supply of information on British intelligence services” for Soviet-backed spies, new archive files allege.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5617866/jeremy-corbyn-british-intelligence-spies-communism/
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,543
    edited February 2018

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Looks good value! In particular I think TM has a decent chance of staying on. The Tories will need to portray Brexit as a success, and how do they do that while ejecting its captain?

    (And first - trained in speed by the Czech Secret Service, y'know.)

    They gratefully say thanks to Mrs May. You're now 60+ with diabetes and deserve more walking holidays with Philip. Off you go.
    The process is that 49 MPs say "We have no confidence in Mrs May as PM", shortly after a Brexit that they simply have to declare to be a success, and in the middle of the complex post-Brexit trade talks etc. It'll look desperate, and they'll be asked why they didn't do it before - if they had no confidence inher, why was she leading the negotiations?
    Bloomberg has this up:

    U.K. Has a Secret Plan to Hold Brexit Cash If EU Refuses to Trade - Bloomberg https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-19/u-k-has-secret-plan-to-hold-brexit-cash-if-eu-refuses-to-trade

    Back to No Deal is better than a Bad Deal.
    That shouldn't be a bloody secret plan, it should BE the plan. And not too much cash even if we do get 'trade' - given that such trade is more beneficial to the EU than it is to us, getting 'trade' is its own reward.
    It's a profoundly stupid plan. First of all we would be in clear breach of our treaties if we unilaterally stopped agreed payments. Secondly it's not going to encourage a good trade deal. But I see it's the brainchild of Iain Duncan Smith.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited February 2018
    The employment angle to the KFC story is hitting the news;

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43110910

    "It said that in the restaurants owned by the chain, staff on short-term contracts would be paid the average hours worked per day over the past 12 weeks, while those on salaries would be paid as normal.

    However, 80% of KFC outlets are run on a franchise basis.

    "Franchisees will be seeking their own independent advice, but we're encouraging them to adopt this policy too"

    This is a $26.3bn company.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Apparently Theresa May has a Physics A Level she disclosed on BBC News for those who say we need more scientists as politicians

    I have a Physics A-Level as well - you can skate through surprisingly well with little scientific knowledge. I had to work harder for that A-Level though than any other, and yet received my lowest grade though, forshame.
    Makes a change from the usual History or Geography or Latin or English or Politics or Economics most PMs did for A Level
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Who is this alleged spy???
  • Pong said:

    The employment angle to the KFC story is hitting the news;

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43110910

    "It said that in the restaurants owned by the chain, staff on short-term contracts would be paid the average hours worked per day over the past 12 weeks, while those on salaries would be paid as normal.

    However, 80% of KFC outlets are run on a franchise basis.

    "Franchisees will be seeking their own independent advice, but we're encouraging them to adopt this policy too"

    This is a $26.3bn company.

    I don't see what's wrong with that response.


    The minimum would be to force paid leave, which an employer is free to do. Instead it seems KFC will be sending people home on fair pay.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958
    HYUFD said:

    Corbyn is clearly determined to lead Labour into the next general election as are his team.

    If he wins he will be PM, if he loses Thornberry is now too closely associated with him to offer a significant chsnge

    Agree with that. She has nailed her colours to the mast by serving in Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Apparently Theresa May has a Physics A Level she disclosed on BBC News for those who say we need more scientists as politicians

    I have a Physics A-Level as well - you can skate through surprisingly well with little scientific knowledge. I had to work harder for that A-Level though than any other, and yet received my lowest grade though, forshame.
    Makes a change from the usual History or Geography or Latin or English or Politics or Economics most PMs did for A Level
    I was only teasing, although it is still only A-Level. Can't hurt though.
  • Telegraph reporting MP's are to call the alleged spy to the commons to detail his meetings with labour MP's

    Perhaps he could organize another Live Aid whilst he is here
    Do you think it might be time for us to have a good night's rest
    I do nighty night darling xxx
    Good night BJO - all the best to you
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    A lot of tiresome anti-Russian propaganda on here tonight. Nobody has remotely proved anything about Russian collusion in UK and / or US elections. And talk about the pot calling the kettle black. We've never intervened in other countries affairs have we?! Obama didn't intervene in the EU referendum debate did he?! Lavrov and Putin have got more political skill in their little fingers compared to the appalling lack of talent of the likes of May, Alexander de Pfeffel Boris, Corbyn and Thornberry.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    HYUFD said:

    Corbyn is clearly determined to lead Labour into the next general election as are his team.

    If he wins he will be PM, if he loses Thornberry is now too closely associated with him to offer a significant chsnge

    Agree with that. She has nailed her colours to the mast by serving in Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet.
    Yes, she lives and dies with Corbynism, if and when it dies it will be the likes of Umunna feeding on its carcass not Thornberry
  • glwglw Posts: 9,535
    edited February 2018
    hunchman said:

    A lot of tiresome anti-Russian propaganda on here tonight. Nobody has remotely proved anything about Russian collusion in UK and / or US elections. And talk about the pot calling the kettle black. We've never intervened in other countries affairs have we?! Obama didn't intervene in the EU referendum debate did he?! Lavrov and Putin have got more political skill in their little fingers compared to the appalling lack of talent of the likes of May, Alexander de Pfeffel Boris, Corbyn and Thornberry.

    Obviously we have done such things, and indeed continue to do such things. The reason the whole "deep state" meme has gained so much traction is that parts of the US intelligence community have been a law unto themselves and done all kinds of terrible things. So it's easy to believe there are forces at work trying to thwart the "will of the people" by unlawful means. But two wrongs don't make a right.

    Interestingly Mueller himself, when at the FBI, pushed back hard against some of the stuff the CIA was doing like enhanced interrogation after 9/11.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited February 2018

    Pong said:

    The employment angle to the KFC story is hitting the news;

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43110910

    "It said that in the restaurants owned by the chain, staff on short-term contracts would be paid the average hours worked per day over the past 12 weeks, while those on salaries would be paid as normal.

    However, 80% of KFC outlets are run on a franchise basis.

    "Franchisees will be seeking their own independent advice, but we're encouraging them to adopt this policy too"

    This is a $26.3bn company.

    I don't see what's wrong with that response.


    The minimum would be to force paid leave, which an employer is free to do. Instead it seems KFC will be sending people home on fair pay.
    Why not pay franchise staff the shortfall?

    Why has the risk of corporate f*ckups been offloaded onto the lowest paid via fragile franchises?

    We choose to allow these corporate/employment structures. IMO, payment of frontline staff in a situation like this should not be optional. No?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,769
    hunchman said:

    A lot of tiresome anti-Russian propaganda on here tonight. Nobody has remotely proved anything about Russian collusion in UK and / or US elections. And talk about the pot calling the kettle black. We've never intervened in other countries affairs have we?! Obama didn't intervene in the EU referendum debate did he?! Lavrov and Putin have got more political skill in their little fingers compared to the appalling lack of talent of the likes of May, Alexander de Pfeffel Boris, Corbyn and Thornberry.

    Berlusconi has 100x more skill than than any of the multitude of Italian politicians that inhabited the PM spot in the 1980s or 1990s. Yet the Italians were far better served by weak government than strong.

    Why on earth would you expect strong government to be good government?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,769
    glw said:

    Foxy said:

    Do you think the Russians wanted Brexit, and trolled for it to set the millieu?

    For sure. The Russians support whatever causes the most trouble for the UK goverment. Any change is disruptive, no matter what the outcome is in the long term. So Brexit suits Russia. I don't think they made much difference, as it's not as though the UK was a big fan of the EU up until 2016.
    I think that's spot on.

    People seem to think that the EU referendum was close. It was not. Leave got almost 10% more votes than Remain. In absolute terms, the gap was almost exactly the same as the number of votes the SNP got in their record 2015 result.

    It's also worth remembering that the US has been pretty keen on interfering in other countries elections in the past. There were active campaigns in Greece and Italy to keep the Communists out of power in the post war period. And these were rather more active campaigns than a few fake tweeters.

    I have little doubt that we have also messed in other countries democratic elections, so I find this outrageous a little odd.

    Perhaps the issue is simpler: the Russians managed to fuck up this time by getting caught. And so the US government daren't appear pro-Russian now.
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    rcs1000 said:

    hunchman said:

    A lot of tiresome anti-Russian propaganda on here tonight. Nobody has remotely proved anything about Russian collusion in UK and / or US elections. And talk about the pot calling the kettle black. We've never intervened in other countries affairs have we?! Obama didn't intervene in the EU referendum debate did he?! Lavrov and Putin have got more political skill in their little fingers compared to the appalling lack of talent of the likes of May, Alexander de Pfeffel Boris, Corbyn and Thornberry.

    Berlusconi has 100x more skill than than any of the multitude of Italian politicians that inhabited the PM spot in the 1980s or 1990s. Yet the Italians were far better served by weak government than strong.

    Why on earth would you expect strong government to be good government?
    Berlusconi - you're having a laugh aren't you?! Any half-competent political opponent who did their own research could nail him on his corruption. I've done it myself. Search the record on David Mackenzie Donald Mills and you'll be on the right track.

    As for strong government, you're equating strong to big. That isn't the case at all. Strong small government is far more preferable to weak bungling big government, which is what we have today in the UK sadly.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,769
    hunchman said:

    rcs1000 said:

    hunchman said:

    A lot of tiresome anti-Russian propaganda on here tonight. Nobody has remotely proved anything about Russian collusion in UK and / or US elections. And talk about the pot calling the kettle black. We've never intervened in other countries affairs have we?! Obama didn't intervene in the EU referendum debate did he?! Lavrov and Putin have got more political skill in their little fingers compared to the appalling lack of talent of the likes of May, Alexander de Pfeffel Boris, Corbyn and Thornberry.

    Berlusconi has 100x more skill than than any of the multitude of Italian politicians that inhabited the PM spot in the 1980s or 1990s. Yet the Italians were far better served by weak government than strong.

    Why on earth would you expect strong government to be good government?
    Berlusconi - you're having a laugh aren't you?! Any half-competent political opponent who did their own research could nail him on his corruption. I've done it myself. Search the record on David Mackenzie Donald Mills and you'll be on the right track.

    As for strong government, you're equating strong to big. That isn't the case at all. Strong small government is far more preferable to weak bungling big government, which is what we have today in the UK sadly.
    Are you suggesting that Vladimir Putin has not enriched himself while President?

    If so, I have a bridge you might want to buy.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,769
    hunchman said:

    rcs1000 said:

    hunchman said:

    A lot of tiresome anti-Russian propaganda on here tonight. Nobody has remotely proved anything about Russian collusion in UK and / or US elections. And talk about the pot calling the kettle black. We've never intervened in other countries affairs have we?! Obama didn't intervene in the EU referendum debate did he?! Lavrov and Putin have got more political skill in their little fingers compared to the appalling lack of talent of the likes of May, Alexander de Pfeffel Boris, Corbyn and Thornberry.

    Berlusconi has 100x more skill than than any of the multitude of Italian politicians that inhabited the PM spot in the 1980s or 1990s. Yet the Italians were far better served by weak government than strong.

    Why on earth would you expect strong government to be good government?
    Berlusconi - you're having a laugh aren't you?! Any half-competent political opponent who did their own research could nail him on his corruption. I've done it myself. Search the record on David Mackenzie Donald Mills and you'll be on the right track.

    As for strong government, you're equating strong to big. That isn't the case at all. Strong small government is far more preferable to weak bungling big government, which is what we have today in the UK sadly.
    "Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys."
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    glw said:

    hunchman said:

    A lot of tiresome anti-Russian propaganda on here tonight. Nobody has remotely proved anything about Russian collusion in UK and / or US elections. And talk about the pot calling the kettle black. We've never intervened in other countries affairs have we?! Obama didn't intervene in the EU referendum debate did he?! Lavrov and Putin have got more political skill in their little fingers compared to the appalling lack of talent of the likes of May, Alexander de Pfeffel Boris, Corbyn and Thornberry.

    Obviously we have done such things, and indeed continue to do such things. The reason the whole "deep state" meme has gained so much traction is that parts of the US intelligence community have been a law unto themselves and done all kinds of terrible things. So it's easy to believe there are forces at work trying to thwart the "will of the people" by unlawful means. But two wrongs don't make a right.

    Interestingly Mueller himself, when at the FBI, pushed back hard against some of the stuff the CIA was doing like enhanced interrogation after 9/11.
    As for Mueller and his chicanery, I think this article best sums up my views:

    https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/rule-of-law/mueller-creates-his-own-conspiracy/

    Let's have a public trial where his allegations would have to be proven. Mueller knows very well that we won't get that, given that there is no US-Russia extradition treaty.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958
    edited February 2018
    Loneliest tree on the planet - I've been here and seen this:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-43113900
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    Soviet and current Russian espionage MO is built on mass rather than precision. One espionage objective is the undermining of the institutions and foundations of Western democratic society. Cause disruption, unrest and division. The Soviet bloc did it then and Russia does it today.

    Get as many people of influence you can working with you in some way. Only a handful of people are ever truly high level, high value spies. The rest, however, have uses.

    The idea that there was no point in establishing a relationship with Corbyn because he was some dodgeball backbencher who didn't hold a position of state doesn't hold water. In fact he was and is a perfectly logical subject for approach given the objectives and strategy outlined above.

    The more important question is why is something that Western intelligence services knew back then coming out now.
  • A glorious piece of character assassination:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/feb/19/westminster-councillor-received-gifts-and-hospitality-514-times-in-three-years

    You have to scroll through two pages, down to the seventeenth paragraph, to discover that the Guardian admits that "There is no suggestion that Davis breached any rules."

    And they have the nerve to get all het up about the Mail.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,535
    rcs1000 said:

    Are you suggesting that Vladimir Putin has not enriched himself while President?

    No all those palaces, aircraft, cars and the like aren't Putin's. They belong to his close lifelong friends who all became inexplicably rich at about the same time.

  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    rcs1000 said:

    hunchman said:

    rcs1000 said:

    hunchman said:

    A lot of tiresome anti-Russian propaganda on here tonight. Nobody has remotely proved anything about Russian collusion in UK and / or US elections. And talk about the pot calling the kettle black. We've never intervened in other countries affairs have we?! Obama didn't intervene in the EU referendum debate did he?! Lavrov and Putin have got more political skill in their little fingers compared to the appalling lack of talent of the likes of May, Alexander de Pfeffel Boris, Corbyn and Thornberry.

    Berlusconi has 100x more skill than than any of the multitude of Italian politicians that inhabited the PM spot in the 1980s or 1990s. Yet the Italians were far better served by weak government than strong.

    Why on earth would you expect strong government to be good government?
    Berlusconi - you're having a laugh aren't you?! Any half-competent political opponent who did their own research could nail him on his corruption. I've done it myself. Search the record on David Mackenzie Donald Mills and you'll be on the right track.

    As for strong government, you're equating strong to big. That isn't the case at all. Strong small government is far more preferable to weak bungling big government, which is what we have today in the UK sadly.
    "Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys."
    Well as somebody once put it succinctly to me, "petrol and alcohol don't mix".

    As always, I follow the money. That gets you to the true story and the true motivations. Talk is cheap, especially when it comes to the mainstream media and a lot of the alternative media as well, I regret to say.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693

    Loneliest tree on the planet - I've been here and seen this:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-43113900

    Once upon a time there lived an even lonelier specimen...

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/the-most-isolated-tree-in-the-world-was-killed-by-a-probably-drunk-driver-5369329/
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958
    Pong said:

    Loneliest tree on the planet - I've been here and seen this:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-43113900

    Once upon a time there lived an even lonelier specimen...

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/the-most-isolated-tree-in-the-world-was-killed-by-a-probably-drunk-driver-5369329/
    Yes, I was aware of that. Got to be unfortunate to be taken out by a drunk driver in a Muslim country!
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    rcs1000 said:

    hunchman said:

    rcs1000 said:

    hunchman said:

    A lot of tiresome anti-Russian propaganda on here tonight. Nobody has remotely proved anything about Russian collusion in UK and / or US elections. And talk about the pot calling the kettle black. We've never intervened in other countries affairs have we?! Obama didn't intervene in the EU referendum debate did he?! Lavrov and Putin have got more political skill in their little fingers compared to the appalling lack of talent of the likes of May, Alexander de Pfeffel Boris, Corbyn and Thornberry.

    Berlusconi has 100x more skill than than any of the multitude of Italian politicians that inhabited the PM spot in the 1980s or 1990s. Yet the Italians were far better served by weak government than strong.

    Why on earth would you expect strong government to be good government?
    Berlusconi - you're having a laugh aren't you?! Any half-competent political opponent who did their own research could nail him on his corruption. I've done it myself. Search the record on David Mackenzie Donald Mills and you'll be on the right track.

    As for strong government, you're equating strong to big. That isn't the case at all. Strong small government is far more preferable to weak bungling big government, which is what we have today in the UK sadly.
    Are you suggesting that Vladimir Putin has not enriched himself while President?

    If so, I have a bridge you might want to buy.
    Of course Putin has enriched himself. At least that's far more in the open, when compared to a lot of Western politicians who act holier than thou, yet are playing exactly the same games, and in a far more duplicitous manner as well.

    I'm pleased that Andrew Bridgen, one of the decent Tories, is continuing to go after Keith Vaz:

    https://order-order.com/2018/02/17/vaz-reported-national-crime-agency-finances/

    A few weeks back, Vaz opened a swimming pool in his constituency, when he was supposedly too ill to attend parliament, behaviour par for the course with him.
  • The idea that Corbyn will voluntarily step down before the next election is bizarre. He has spent 30 off years as a backbench nobody. Now he is within a relative whisker of being PM. Why would he go? And he has shown that being pushed wouldn't work either.
  • Currant Bun doubling down...

    New archive files allege the then backbench MP was one of the top contacts of Czech State Security agents

    LABOUR chief Jeremy Corbyn had an “active supply of information on British intelligence services” for Soviet-backed spies, new archive files allege.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5617866/jeremy-corbyn-british-intelligence-spies-communism/

    From The Sun: He was also described as handing communist agents a newspaper article about an MI5 operation against an East German spy.

    Is that it? Did the Czech embassy not buy its own newspapers? At best, or worst, it shows Corbyn was an innocent abroad who thought he was discussing the news with fellow lefties; certainly not revealing state secrets to foreign spies.

    Of course, the beauty of it is that Corbyn can hardly sue because away from the lurid headline, the details are quite mundane and the Sun even includes a sort-of denial from the Czechs: Svetlana Ptacnikova, of the Czech intelligence archives in Prague, said: “We don’t have any documents which state that Jeremy Corbyn was a paid informant, but we can’t be sure.”
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,769
    hunchman said:

    rcs1000 said:

    hunchman said:

    rcs1000 said:

    hunchman said:

    A lot of tiresome anti-Russian propaganda on here tonight. Nobody has remotely proved anything about Russian collusion in UK and / or US elections. And talk about the pot calling the kettle black. We've never intervened in other countries affairs have we?! Obama didn't intervene in the EU referendum debate did he?! Lavrov and Putin have got more political skill in their little fingers compared to the appalling lack of talent of the likes of May, Alexander de Pfeffel Boris, Corbyn and Thornberry.

    Berlusconi has 100x more skill than than any of the multitude of Italian politicians that inhabited the PM spot in the 1980s or 1990s. Yet the Italians were far better served by weak government than strong.

    Why on earth would you expect strong government to be good government?
    Berlusconi - you're having a laugh aren't you?! Any half-competent political opponent who did their own research could nail him on his corruption. I've done it myself. Search the record on David Mackenzie Donald Mills and you'll be on the right track.

    As for strong government, you're equating strong to big. That isn't the case at all. Strong small government is far more preferable to weak bungling big government, which is what we have today in the UK sadly.
    Are you suggesting that Vladimir Putin has not enriched himself while President?

    If so, I have a bridge you might want to buy.
    Of course Putin has enriched himself. At least that's far more in the open, when compared to a lot of Western politicians who act holier than thou, yet are playing exactly the same games, and in a far more duplicitous manner as well.

    I'm pleased that Andrew Bridgen, one of the decent Tories, is continuing to go after Keith Vaz:

    https://order-order.com/2018/02/17/vaz-reported-national-crime-agency-finances/

    A few weeks back, Vaz opened a swimming pool in his constituency, when he was supposedly too ill to attend parliament, behaviour par for the course with him.
    Stealing billions: excellent work, strong leadership, to be admired.
    Opening a swimming pool: corrupt bastard.

    Life in hunchman land.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,769
    AndyJS said:
    I think Trump handled Merkel very poorly on this. By publicly shaming her, he made it a point of principle for her to snub him.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,769
    rcs1000 said:

    AndyJS said:
    I think Trump handled Merkel very poorly on this. By publicly shaming her, he made it a point of principle for her to snub him.
    Unless, of course, Mr Trump's goal was not to get Germany to spend more money.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    AndyJS said:
    Germany is the pre-eminent economic power in Europe but it is France and the UK who are the leading military powers, for obvious reasons Germany has little interest in expanding its armed forces and interventions abroad
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    glw said:

    Foxy said:

    Have you noticed the Mueller enquiry, and wondered what the same Russians did here?

    They dynamics are rather different here, for starters because we have a much more heavily regulated media and political campaigning than in the US. But I'm sure that the Russians are pushing propaganda in the UK, and in the West in general.
    We are certainly supposed to "have a much more heavily regulated media and political campaigning than in the US", Mr GLW. Recent events, however, suggest that this might not be the case.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840

    Looks like Ben Wallace MP is now backtracking too when asked if he was comparing Jezza to a treasonous agent of a hostile foreign power he said

    Nope

    Lol, in fairness they were probably just a little bit over excited about the newspaper headlines. Get em Jezza!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,571
    hunchman said:

    rcs1000 said:

    hunchman said:

    rcs1000 said:

    hunchman said:

    A lot of tiresome anti-Russian propaganda on here tonight. Nobody has remotely proved anything about Russian collusion in UK and / or US elections. And talk about the pot calling the kettle black. We've never intervened in other countries affairs have we?! Obama didn't intervene in the EU referendum debate did he?! Lavrov and Putin have got more political skill in their little fingers compared to the appalling lack of talent of the likes of May, Alexander de Pfeffel Boris, Corbyn and Thornberry.

    Berlusconi has 100x more skill than than any of the multitude of Italian politicians that inhabited the PM spot in the 1980s or 1990s. Yet the Italians were far better served by weak government than strong.

    Why on earth would you expect strong government to be good government?
    Berlusconi - you're having a laugh aren't you?! Any half-competent political opponent who did their own research could nail him on his corruption. I've done it myself. Search the record on David Mackenzie Donald Mills and you'll be on the right track.

    As for strong government, you're equating strong to big. That isn't the case at all. Strong small government is far more preferable to weak bungling big government, which is what we have today in the UK sadly.
    Are you suggesting that Vladimir Putin has not enriched himself while President?

    If so, I have a bridge you might want to buy.
    Of course Putin has enriched himself. At least that's far more in the open, when compared to a lot of Western politicians who act holier than thou, yet are playing exactly the same games, and in a far more duplicitous manner as well.

    I'm pleased that Andrew Bridgen, one of the decent Tories, is continuing to go after Keith Vaz:

    https://order-order.com/2018/02/17/vaz-reported-national-crime-agency-finances/

    A few weeks back, Vaz opened a swimming pool in his constituency, when he was supposedly too ill to attend parliament, behaviour par for the course with him.
    Critics of Western politicians tend not to meet violent deaths, either.

    Or is Putin refreshingly out in the open about that, too ?

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,571
    hunchman said:

    rcs1000 said:

    hunchman said:

    rcs1000 said:

    hunchman said:

    A lot of tiresome anti-Russian propaganda on here tonight. Nobody has remotely proved anything about Russian collusion in UK and / or US elections. And talk about the pot calling the kettle black. We've never intervened in other countries affairs have we?! Obama didn't intervene in the EU referendum debate did he?! Lavrov and Putin have got more political skill in their little fingers compared to the appalling lack of talent of the likes of May, Alexander de Pfeffel Boris, Corbyn and Thornberry.

    Berlusconi has 100x more skill than than any of the multitude of Italian politicians that inhabited the PM spot in the 1980s or 1990s. Yet the Italians were far better served by weak government than strong.

    Why on earth would you expect strong government to be good government?
    Berlusconi - you're having a laugh aren't you?! Any half-competent political opponent who did their own research could nail him on his corruption. I've done it myself. Search the record on David Mackenzie Donald Mills and you'll be on the right track.

    As for strong government, you're equating strong to big. That isn't the case at all. Strong small government is far more preferable to weak bungling big government, which is what we have today in the UK sadly.
    "Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys."
    Well as somebody once put it succinctly to me, "petrol and alcohol don't mix"...
    Literally untrue. In Brazil, they add a large percentage of alcohol to their petrol.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited February 2018
    Jezza to crush the city....

    Mr Corbyn has often criticised bankers, and promised a "fundamental shift" in economic policy if he wins power.

    A Labour government, he will say, "will take decisive action to make finance the servant of industry, not the masters of us all".

    In a speech to the EEF manufacturers' organisation on Tuesday, he will say his administration would be the first in 40 years - a period which includes 13 years of Labour government - to "stand up for the real economy".

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-43121199
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,880
    edited February 2018
    hunchman said:

    A lot of tiresome anti-Russian propaganda on here tonight. Nobody has remotely proved anything about Russian collusion in UK and / or US elections. And talk about the pot calling the kettle black. We've never intervened in other countries affairs have we?! Obama didn't intervene in the EU referendum debate did he?! Lavrov and Putin have got more political skill in their little fingers compared to the appalling lack of talent of the likes of May, Alexander de Pfeffel Boris, Corbyn and Thornberry.

    The book which Putin's ideological cornerstone and that has formed his to-do list for the past 15 years is "Osnovi Geopolitiki" written by Aleksandr Dugin in 1997. That work, which is now a textbook in many Russian institutions, has entire section on how important it is for Russia to sever the UK from Europe as it provides a bridge to Atlanticist ideals. It would be more curious if Russia hadn't tried to influence the Brexit referendum.

    And, yob tvoyu mat', to your Putin-worship.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831

    Jezza to crush the city....

    Mr Corbyn has often criticised bankers, and promised a "fundamental shift" in economic policy if he wins power.

    A Labour government, he will say, "will take decisive action to make finance the servant of industry, not the masters of us all".

    In a speech to the EEF manufacturers' organisation on Tuesday, he will say his administration would be the first in 40 years - a period which includes 13 years of Labour government - to "stand up for the real economy".

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-43121199

    Shows his utter lack of understanding of how economics works. Unless we have wealth creators, there will be no-one to tax heavily enough to pay for his pie in the sky schemes.

    This sort of approach is potentially more damaging to the long-term future of the UK economy than anything Brexit can throw at us.
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,435

    Jezza to crush the city....

    Mr Corbyn has often criticised bankers, and promised a "fundamental shift" in economic policy if he wins power.

    A Labour government, he will say, "will take decisive action to make finance the servant of industry, not the masters of us all".

    In a speech to the EEF manufacturers' organisation on Tuesday, he will say his administration would be the first in 40 years - a period which includes 13 years of Labour government - to "stand up for the real economy".

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-43121199

    this concept of the "real economy" is very interesting, for about 30 years we have been told that the City and the Financial sector are fundamental to the UK economy....in that time it has grown significantly larger, has generated a massive bubble in central London and parts of the South East but most voters see very little physical benefit - hence the dire warnings about BREXIT and the City did not bother many....

    Perhaps JC has a point, the CIty has perhaps overblown its value the UK economy, RBS certainly
  • Jezza to crush the city....

    Mr Corbyn has often criticised bankers, and promised a "fundamental shift" in economic policy if he wins power.

    A Labour government, he will say, "will take decisive action to make finance the servant of industry, not the masters of us all".

    In a speech to the EEF manufacturers' organisation on Tuesday, he will say his administration would be the first in 40 years - a period which includes 13 years of Labour government - to "stand up for the real economy".

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-43121199

    Shows his utter lack of understanding of how economics works. Unless we have wealth creators, there will be no-one to tax heavily enough to pay for his pie in the sky schemes.

    This sort of approach is potentially more damaging to the long-term future of the UK economy than anything Brexit can throw at us.
    It is also far more dangerous that sticking up income tax a bit.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831

    Jezza to crush the city....

    Mr Corbyn has often criticised bankers, and promised a "fundamental shift" in economic policy if he wins power.

    A Labour government, he will say, "will take decisive action to make finance the servant of industry, not the masters of us all".

    In a speech to the EEF manufacturers' organisation on Tuesday, he will say his administration would be the first in 40 years - a period which includes 13 years of Labour government - to "stand up for the real economy".

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-43121199

    this concept of the "real economy" is very interesting, for about 30 years we have been told that the City and the Financial sector are fundamental to the UK economy....in that time it has grown significantly larger, has generated a massive bubble in central London and parts of the South East but most voters see very little physical benefit - hence the dire warnings about BREXIT and the City did not bother many....

    Perhaps JC has a point, the CIty has perhaps overblown its value the UK economy, RBS certainly
    JC doesn't have a point. He has a fundamental lack of understanding as to how to build a successful economy. He believes that Venezuela is the model we should follow. The man is seriously deluded.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    edited February 2018

    Jezza to crush the city....

    Mr Corbyn has often criticised bankers, and promised a "fundamental shift" in economic policy if he wins power.

    A Labour government, he will say, "will take decisive action to make finance the servant of industry, not the masters of us all".

    In a speech to the EEF manufacturers' organisation on Tuesday, he will say his administration would be the first in 40 years - a period which includes 13 years of Labour government - to "stand up for the real economy".

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-43121199

    this concept of the "real economy" is very interesting, for about 30 years we have been told that the City and the Financial sector are fundamental to the UK economy....in that time it has grown significantly larger, has generated a massive bubble in central London and parts of the South East but most voters see very little physical benefit - hence the dire warnings about BREXIT and the City did not bother many....

    Perhaps JC has a point, the CIty has perhaps overblown its value the UK economy, RBS certainly
    But if he wants to kill off the evil spins and bankers in the City, what does he intend to do, to replace the hundred billion they pay every year in taxes? The entire NHS budget is basically paid for by the City.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    Sandpit said:

    Jezza to crush the city....

    Mr Corbyn has often criticised bankers, and promised a "fundamental shift" in economic policy if he wins power.

    A Labour government, he will say, "will take decisive action to make finance the servant of industry, not the masters of us all".

    In a speech to the EEF manufacturers' organisation on Tuesday, he will say his administration would be the first in 40 years - a period which includes 13 years of Labour government - to "stand up for the real economy".

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-43121199

    this concept of the "real economy" is very interesting, for about 30 years we have been told that the City and the Financial sector are fundamental to the UK economy....in that time it has grown significantly larger, has generated a massive bubble in central London and parts of the South East but most voters see very little physical benefit - hence the dire warnings about BREXIT and the City did not bother many....

    Perhaps JC has a point, the CIty has perhaps overblown its value the UK economy, RBS certainly
    But if he wants to kill off the evil spins and bankers in the City, what does he intend to do, to replace the hundred billion they pay every year in taxes? The entire NHS budget is basically paid for by the City.
    This is how Corbyn becomes PM....

    The brexiteer rightwingers get boxed into defending the interests of the city.

    They're playing this game of chess very poorly.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    edited February 2018
    Pong said:

    Sandpit said:

    Jezza to crush the city....

    Mr Corbyn has often criticised bankers, and promised a "fundamental shift" in economic policy if he wins power.

    A Labour government, he will say, "will take decisive action to make finance the servant of industry, not the masters of us all".

    In a speech to the EEF manufacturers' organisation on Tuesday, he will say his administration would be the first in 40 years - a period which includes 13 years of Labour government - to "stand up for the real economy".

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-43121199

    this concept of the "real economy" is very interesting, for about 30 years we have been told that the City and the Financial sector are fundamental to the UK economy....in that time it has grown significantly larger, has generated a massive bubble in central London and parts of the South East but most voters see very little physical benefit - hence the dire warnings about BREXIT and the City did not bother many....

    Perhaps JC has a point, the CIty has perhaps overblown its value the UK economy, RBS certainly
    But if he wants to kill off the evil spins and bankers in the City, what does he intend to do, to replace the hundred billion they pay every year in taxes? The entire NHS budget is basically paid for by the City.
    This is how Corbyn becomes PM....

    The brexiteer rightwingers get boxed into defending the interests of the city.

    They're playing this game of chess very poorly.
    Nah, wanting the City closed down just leaves Corbyn with another £100bn hole in his spending numbers. That’s about £200bn so far, isn’t it?

    It’s a fair point to say that the economy should be rebalanced over time, but Corbyn has no idea how the government actually earns money.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,881

    Jezza to crush the city....

    Mr Corbyn has often criticised bankers, and promised a "fundamental shift" in economic policy if he wins power.

    A Labour government, he will say, "will take decisive action to make finance the servant of industry, not the masters of us all".

    In a speech to the EEF manufacturers' organisation on Tuesday, he will say his administration would be the first in 40 years - a period which includes 13 years of Labour government - to "stand up for the real economy".

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-43121199

    this concept of the "real economy" is very interesting, for about 30 years we have been told that the City and the Financial sector are fundamental to the UK economy....in that time it has grown significantly larger, has generated a massive bubble in central London and parts of the South East but most voters see very little physical benefit - hence the dire warnings about BREXIT and the City did not bother many....

    Perhaps JC has a point, the CIty has perhaps overblown its value the UK economy, RBS certainly
    There's an excellent case that much of the financial innovation we've seen over the past 2/3 decades has been either socially useless, or even actively harmful to the economy.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    I dont understandn't what the Govt is doing wrt tuition fees.
    Why call for a review of the policy of scrapping them is completely off.the table.
    Why put the threshold up from 21 to 25k (A massive comparative change art median earnings and hence total cost of the scheme before the review)
    Why state greater variety is needed in the fees BEFORE the review.

    I am not saying fees are good or bad, but seriously don't get what the review is meant to decide, and why it has been called if govt policy is decided beforehand.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715
    rkrkrk said:

    Jezza to crush the city....

    Mr Corbyn has often criticised bankers, and promised a "fundamental shift" in economic policy if he wins power.

    A Labour government, he will say, "will take decisive action to make finance the servant of industry, not the masters of us all".

    In a speech to the EEF manufacturers' organisation on Tuesday, he will say his administration would be the first in 40 years - a period which includes 13 years of Labour government - to "stand up for the real economy".

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-43121199

    this concept of the "real economy" is very interesting, for about 30 years we have been told that the City and the Financial sector are fundamental to the UK economy....in that time it has grown significantly larger, has generated a massive bubble in central London and parts of the South East but most voters see very little physical benefit - hence the dire warnings about BREXIT and the City did not bother many....

    Perhaps JC has a point, the CIty has perhaps overblown its value the UK economy, RBS certainly
    There's an excellent case that much of the financial innovation we've seen over the past 2/3 decades has been either socially useless, or even actively harmful to the economy.
    +1
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715
    Pulpstar said:

    I dont understandn't what the Govt is doing wrt tuition fees.
    Why call for a review of the policy of scrapping them is completely off.the table.
    Why put the threshold up from 21 to 25k (A massive comparative change art median earnings and hence total cost of the scheme before the review)
    Why state greater variety is needed in the fees BEFORE the review.

    I am not saying fees are good or bad, but seriously don't get what the review is meant to decide, and why it has been called if govt policy is decided beforehand.

    +1
    Typical of this government, sound and fury, signifying nothing!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    On the city, economically Corbyn is pursuing a nonsense policy. But alot of the Brexit vote, after immigration was about taking London down a peg or two. So today's announcement will do well with the Labour leave hinterlands methinks.. .
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Pulpstar said:

    I dont understandn't what the Govt is doing wrt tuition fees.

    https://twitter.com/joemurphylondon/status/965841979342053376
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Pulpstar said:

    I dont understandn't what the Govt is doing wrt tuition fees.
    Why call for a review of the policy of scrapping them is completely off.the table.
    Why put the threshold up from 21 to 25k (A massive comparative change art median earnings and hence total cost of the scheme before the review)
    Why state greater variety is needed in the fees BEFORE the review.

    I am not saying fees are good or bad, but seriously don't get what the review is meant to decide, and why it has been called if govt policy is decided beforehand.

    Reviews don’t *decide* they provide political cover
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    edited February 2018
    Even if it doesn't win votes I guess it will reassure those who do vote Tory who had started to be concerned about younger people getting a bad deal.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited February 2018
    Pulpstar said:

    I dont understandn't what the Govt is doing wrt tuition fees.
    Why call for a review of the policy of scrapping them is completely off.the table.
    Why put the threshold up from 21 to 25k (A massive comparative change art median earnings and hence total cost of the scheme before the review)
    Why state greater variety is needed in the fees BEFORE the review.

    I am not saying fees are good or bad, but seriously don't get what the review is meant to decide, and why it has been called if govt policy is decided beforehand.

    I'm not convinced there's much strategy going on.

    It's almost as if she's well out of her depth in most non-HO policy areas and didn't really grasp the logic behind the new tuition fee/loans structure when she announced the 25k threshold.

    The cynical genius of Osbornes loan structure was that the threshold would effectively decay over time, significantly increasing the sale value of the loans - and the amount the treasury could bank. So long as the core fee/loan structure wasn't altered, the treasury could afford the odd £bn as a bribe whenever the political temperature rose.

    Strange, considering she had a private sector background in economics/finance before entering parliament.

  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679

    Jezza to crush the city....

    Mr Corbyn has often criticised bankers, and promised a "fundamental shift" in economic policy if he wins power.

    A Labour government, he will say, "will take decisive action to make finance the servant of industry, not the masters of us all".

    In a speech to the EEF manufacturers' organisation on Tuesday, he will say his administration would be the first in 40 years - a period which includes 13 years of Labour government - to "stand up for the real economy".

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-43121199

    this concept of the "real economy" is very interesting, for about 30 years we have been told that the City and the Financial sector are fundamental to the UK economy....in that time it has grown significantly larger, has generated a massive bubble in central London and parts of the South East but most voters see very little physical benefit - hence the dire warnings about BREXIT and the City did not bother many....

    Perhaps JC has a point, the CIty has perhaps overblown its value the UK economy, RBS certainly
    JC doesn't have a point. He has a fundamental lack of understanding as to how to build a successful economy. He believes that Venezuela is the model we should follow. The man is seriously deluded.
    Where do I find out about this model that JC and Venezuela have in common?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Project fear turns it's attention from Brexit to Corbyn.
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,435

    Jezza to crush the city....

    Mr Corbyn has often criticised bankers, and promised a "fundamental shift" in economic policy if he wins power.

    A Labour government, he will say, "will take decisive action to make finance the servant of industry, not the masters of us all".

    In a speech to the EEF manufacturers' organisation on Tuesday, he will say his administration would be the first in 40 years - a period which includes 13 years of Labour government - to "stand up for the real economy".

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-43121199

    this concept of the "real economy" is very interesting, for about 30 years we have been told that the City and the Financial sector are fundamental to the UK economy....in that time it has grown significantly larger, has generated a massive bubble in central London and parts of the South East but most voters see very little physical benefit - hence the dire warnings about BREXIT and the City did not bother many....

    Perhaps JC has a point, the CIty has perhaps overblown its value the UK economy, RBS certainly
    JC doesn't have a point. He has a fundamental lack of understanding as to how to build a successful economy. He believes that Venezuela is the model we should follow. The man is seriously deluded.
    Where do I find out about this model that JC and Venezuela have in common?
    There is a case that the economic nationalism pursued by Venezuela has more in common with the Brexiteer arguments of BJ, JRM and Fox.....reduce your ties to your trading partners, develop a radical national rhetoric, make life harder for the poor and blame foreigners,,,,if you ask me, Venezuela looks more like elements of the Tory right's programme than anything JC et al have to say.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,056
    Pong said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I dont understandn't what the Govt is doing wrt tuition fees.
    Why call for a review of the policy of scrapping them is completely off.the table.
    Why put the threshold up from 21 to 25k (A massive comparative change art median earnings and hence total cost of the scheme before the review)
    Why state greater variety is needed in the fees BEFORE the review.

    I am not saying fees are good or bad, but seriously don't get what the review is meant to decide, and why it has been called if govt policy is decided beforehand.

    I'm not convinced there's much strategy going on.

    It's almost as if she's well out of her depth in most non-HO policy areas and didn't really grasp the logic behind the new tuition fee/loans structure when she announced the 25k threshold.

    The cynical genius of Osbornes loan structure was that the threshold would effectively decay over time, significantly increasing the sale value of the loans - and the amount the treasury could bank. So long as the core fee/loan structure wasn't altered, the treasury could afford the odd £bn as a bribe whenever the political temperature rose.

    Strange, considering she had a private sector background in economics/finance before entering parliament.

    All she has done is draw more attention to tuition fees as an issue, without doing anything about it. She really has the negative Midas touch.

    Jezza's economic popularism may well prove quite popular. Not many Britons have any great love of it, even defenders consider it a dirty neccesity.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,741
    edited February 2018

    Jezza to crush the city....

    Mr Corbyn has often criticised bankers, and promised a "fundamental shift" in economic policy if he wins power.

    A Labour government, he will say, "will take decisive action to make finance the servant of industry, not the masters of us all".

    In a speech to the EEF manufacturers' organisation on Tuesday, he will say his administration would be the first in 40 years - a period which includes 13 years of Labour government - to "stand up for the real economy".

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-43121199

    this concept of the "real economy" is very interesting, for about 30 years we have been told that the City and the Financial sector are fundamental to the UK economy....in that time it has grown significantly larger, has generated a massive bubble in central London and parts of the South East but most voters see very little physical benefit - hence the dire warnings about BREXIT and the City did not bother many....

    Perhaps JC has a point, the CIty has perhaps overblown its value the UK economy, RBS certainly
    JC doesn't have a point. He has a fundamental lack of understanding as to how to build a successful economy. He believes that Venezuela is the model we should follow. The man is seriously deluded.
    Where do I find out about this model that JC and Venezuela have in common?
    There is a case that the economic nationalism pursued by Venezuela has more in common with the Brexiteer arguments of BJ, JRM and Fox.....reduce your ties to your trading partners, develop a radical national rhetoric, make life harder for the poor and blame foreigners,,,,if you ask me, Venezuela looks more like elements of the Tory right's programme than anything JC et al have to say.
    The Tory right are proposing to seize all foreign owned industry and run it to siphon billions off into their own Panamanian bank accounts for the benefit of the people?

    That's an announcement I'm sorry I missed. The look on Hammond's face would have been worth five years' licence fees.
  • Foxy said:

    Pong said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I dont understandn't what the Govt is doing wrt tuition fees.
    Why call for a review of the policy of scrapping them is completely off.the table.
    Why put the threshold up from 21 to 25k (A massive comparative change art median earnings and hence total cost of the scheme before the review)
    Why state greater variety is needed in the fees BEFORE the review.

    I am not saying fees are good or bad, but seriously don't get what the review is meant to decide, and why it has been called if govt policy is decided beforehand.

    I'm not convinced there's much strategy going on.

    It's almost as if she's well out of her depth in most non-HO policy areas and didn't really grasp the logic behind the new tuition fee/loans structure when she announced the 25k threshold.

    The cynical genius of Osbornes loan structure was that the threshold would effectively decay over time, significantly increasing the sale value of the loans - and the amount the treasury could bank. So long as the core fee/loan structure wasn't altered, the treasury could afford the odd £bn as a bribe whenever the political temperature rose.

    Strange, considering she had a private sector background in economics/finance before entering parliament.

    All she has done is draw more attention to tuition fees as an issue, without doing anything about it. She really has the negative Midas touch.

    Jezza's economic popularism may well prove quite popular. Not many Britons have any great love of it, even defenders consider it a dirty neccesity.
    Yep. She is a genius. May has basically accepted that there is a major problem and then done nothing. Not only ceding the ground to Jezza, but moving the Overton Window on the issue. Maybe, to be charitable, it had already moved and the public wants rid of fees altogether.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,881

    Jezza to crush the city....

    Mr Corbyn has often criticised bankers, and promised a "fundamental shift" in economic policy if he wins power.

    A Labour government, he will say, "will take decisive action to make finance the servant of industry, not the masters of us all".

    In a speech to the EEF manufacturers' organisation on Tuesday, he will say his administration would be the first in 40 years - a period which includes 13 years of Labour government - to "stand up for the real economy".

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-43121199

    this concept of the "real economy" is very interesting, for about 30 years we have been told that the City and the Financial sector are fundamental to the UK economy....in that time it has grown significantly larger, has generated a massive bubble in central London and parts of the South East but most voters see very little physical benefit - hence the dire warnings about BREXIT and the City did not bother many....

    Perhaps JC has a point, the CIty has perhaps overblown its value the UK economy, RBS certainly
    JC doesn't have a point. He has a fundamental lack of understanding as to how to build a successful economy. He believes that Venezuela is the model we should follow. The man is seriously deluded.
    Where do I find out about this model that JC and Venezuela have in common?
    There is a case that the economic nationalism pursued by Venezuela has more in common with the Brexiteer arguments of BJ, JRM and Fox.....reduce your ties to your trading partners, develop a radical national rhetoric, make life harder for the poor and blame foreigners,,,,if you ask me, Venezuela looks more like elements of the Tory right's programme than anything JC et al have to say.
    Personally I think all these “we will be like country x or country y” comparisons are largely useless and the public ignores them.

    Possibly the only area where the British public has a firm view of this type IMO is that they don’t want a health system like the USA.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    rkrkrk said:

    Jezza to crush the city....

    Mr Corbyn has often criticised bankers, and promised a "fundamental shift" in economic policy if he wins power.

    A Labour government, he will say, "will take decisive action to make finance the servant of industry, not the masters of us all".

    In a speech to the EEF manufacturers' organisation on Tuesday, he will say his administration would be the first in 40 years - a period which includes 13 years of Labour government - to "stand up for the real economy".

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-43121199

    this concept of the "real economy" is very interesting, for about 30 years we have been told that the City and the Financial sector are fundamental to the UK economy....in that time it has grown significantly larger, has generated a massive bubble in central London and parts of the South East but most voters see very little physical benefit - hence the dire warnings about BREXIT and the City did not bother many....

    Perhaps JC has a point, the CIty has perhaps overblown its value the UK economy, RBS certainly
    JC doesn't have a point. He has a fundamental lack of understanding as to how to build a successful economy. He believes that Venezuela is the model we should follow. The man is seriously deluded.
    Where do I find out about this model that JC and Venezuela have in common?
    There is a case that the economic nationalism pursued by Venezuela has more in common with the Brexiteer arguments of BJ, JRM and Fox.....reduce your ties to your trading partners, develop a radical national rhetoric, make life harder for the poor and blame foreigners,,,,if you ask me, Venezuela looks more like elements of the Tory right's programme than anything JC et al have to say.
    Personally I think all these “we will be like country x or country y” comparisons are largely useless and the public ignores them.

    Possibly the only area where the British public has a firm view of this type IMO is that they don’t want a health system like the USA.
    All true.
  • Good morning, everyone.

    Hmm. This is quite an interesting suggestion. My only counterpoint would be whether or not Labour MPs would back her to be on the shortlist. Are there sufficient old lefties and new socialist idiots who think more of the far left in charge is a good thing? If so, she'd stand a great chance with the £3 membership.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Charles said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I dont understandn't what the Govt is doing wrt tuition fees.
    Why call for a review of the policy of scrapping them is completely off.the table.
    Why put the threshold up from 21 to 25k (A massive comparative change art median earnings and hence total cost of the scheme before the review)
    Why state greater variety is needed in the fees BEFORE the review.

    I am not saying fees are good or bad, but seriously don't get what the review is meant to decide, and why it has been called if govt policy is decided beforehand.

    Reviews don’t *decide* they provide political cover
    I know you're an intelligent man Charles, pray tell - precisely WHAT will this review give cover for.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,056
    Scott_P said:
    With our DExEU minister now aiming for a deal slightly better than a dystopian wasteland, we certainly are tempering expectations.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958
    Scott_P said:
    Who is this "UKIP" of which he speaks?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Scott_P said:
    Spot on. The Tories are just going to end up annoying everyone with this.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    AndyJS said:

    The Tories are just going to end up annoying everyone with this.

    That is May's signature move...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,741
    Scott_P said:
    It's hardly just the 52% though is it? Remainers are being in effect led by Corbyn - who for all his denials is clearly a Leaver - and leavers by May who is a Remainer. They are also both autocratic muppets with neither imagination or vision and one of them completely lacks integrity.

    As a nation, I get the feeling we're more royally screwed than Messalina's bodyguards.
  • AndyJS said:

    Scott_P said:
    Spot on. The Tories are just going to end up annoying everyone with this.
    A journalist can write a 500 word summary of why this review was a crap idea in a couple of hours, whereas May's advisors have spent weeks coming up with the idea. They even engineered the moving of Jo Johnson to allow a review to go ahead.

    Pathetic.

    If the alternative wasn't JRM then it is time the Tories put the country out of its misery over May.
This discussion has been closed.