@John_M and @Mortimer - you may be partly Welsh by ancestry, but your attitude towards the other nations and languages of these islands is 100% pig-ignorant English chauvinist.
The Welsh language and its antecedents have been spoken in Great Britain far longer than English. The Welsh language continues to be spoken by hundreds of thousands of people, and has never died out (the situation for Irish is very different). This is despite the best efforts of the government in London, which for hundreds of years conducted a campaign against the use of the language for legal, administrative and educational reasons.
The people of Wales do not need the approval of people like you to take basic steps to preserve their language and culture.
"Betamax is superior in quality to VHS"
If people want to talk in Welsh, Gaylick or Klingon - bully for them.
The taxpayer shouldn't be funding novelty road signs to pander to sentiment.
Let’s imagine that at some point in a hypothetical future, Urdu became the majority language of England. Would you nonchalantly accept the disappearance of the English language from public life?
@John_M and @Mortimer - you may be partly Welsh by ancestry, but your attitude towards the other nations and languages of these islands is 100% pig-ignorant English chauvinist.
The Welsh language and its antecedents have been spoken in Great Britain far longer than English. The Welsh language continues to be spoken by hundreds of thousands of people, and has never died out (the situation for Irish is very different). This is despite the best efforts of the government in London, which for hundreds of years conducted a campaign against the use of the language for legal, administrative and educational reasons.
The people of Wales do not need the approval of people like you to take basic steps to preserve their language and culture.
I have no problem with Welsh - but tax payer bungs and laws don't keep languages alive. And opposing government subsidy of something that most people don't need or use isn't ignorant or chauvinist, it is fiscally sound in an age of austerity. We're living beyond our means. Maybe Welsh governments should spend more money on the NHS and less on language?
Ali Capper, who chairs the NFU’s horticulture team, told Gove that the availability of workers to pick fruit and vegetables was now “mission critical for 2018”.
@John_M and @Mortimer - you may be partly Welsh by ancestry, but your attitude towards the other nations and languages of these islands is 100% pig-ignorant English chauvinist.
The Welsh language and its antecedents have been spoken in Great Britain far longer than English. The Welsh language continues to be spoken by hundreds of thousands of people, and has never died out (the situation for Irish is very different). This is despite the best efforts of the government in London, which for hundreds of years conducted a campaign against the use of the language for legal, administrative and educational reasons.
The people of Wales do not need the approval of people like you to take basic steps to preserve their language and culture.
"Betamax is superior in quality to VHS"
If people want to talk in Welsh, Gaylick or Klingon - bully for them.
The taxpayer shouldn't be funding novelty road signs to pander to sentiment.
Let’s imagine that at some point in a hypothetical future, Urdu became the majority language of England. Would you nonchalantly accept the disappearance of the English language from public life?
The Normans tried, it didn't work. Mortimer's point is correct; Welsh is not being oppressed, and if it truly has cultural vitality it would thrive on its own merits. Painting 'Araf' on the roads is neither here nor there.
Ali Capper, who chairs the NFU’s horticulture team, told Gove that the availability of workers to pick fruit and vegetables was now “mission critical for 2018”.
@John_M and @Mortimer - you may be partly Welsh by ancestry, but your attitude towards the other nations and languages of these islands is 100% pig-ignorant English chauvinist.
The Welsh language and its antecedents have been spoken in Great Britain far longer than English. The Welsh language continues to be spoken by hundreds of thousands of people, and has never died out (the situation for Irish is very different). This is despite the best efforts of the government in London, which for hundreds of years conducted a campaign against the use of the language for legal, administrative and educational reasons.
The people of Wales do not need the approval of people like you to take basic steps to preserve their language and culture.
"Betamax is superior in quality to VHS"
If people want to talk in Welsh, Gaylick or Klingon - bully for them.
The taxpayer shouldn't be funding novelty road signs to pander to sentiment.
Let’s imagine that at some point in a hypothetical future, Urdu became the majority language of England. Would you nonchalantly accept the disappearance of the English language from public life?
The Normans tried, it didn't work. Mortimer's point is correct; Welsh is not being oppressed, and if it truly has cultural vitality it would thrive on its own merits. Painting 'Araf' on the roads is neither here nor there.
I doubt my ability to spell it on an iPhone, but mum was a very keen and regular performer at the Eistedffiod in Llangollen when young. She looks back on it wistfully whenever traveling through. But understands that it isn't the dominant language and doesn't need to be on roadsigns.
Languages evolve. I just picked up a lovely copy of Bosworth's Anglo saxon dictionary, 1838. Unsurprisingly, perhaps, in Oxford, where there is a high concentration of speakers because of the English degree there. However, Oxford councils are not obliged to make road signs out of the language, thank his.
The Tories need to drop all of this Corbyn was a spy rubbish. The Dems are trying (and failing) with that line against Trump. It's complete bullshit and no one cares what Jez may or may not have done 40 years ago.
Not really about whether he passed on secrets or not - it's about his character.
And he's appearing shifty and evasive - not a good look.
This is a long game and it's working so far - the story is continuing to run - and will do as long as he cowers behind not releasing his Stasi file.
This is just dead history to so many people, simply unimaginable. Seems to me there's more likelihood of turning him into even more of a hero.
Bit like portraying Mr Cameron against that car - Quattro?
Good evening, everybody.
Labour portrayed Cameron as the dashing good guy - daft idiots.
Not many films have a hero selling secrets to the murderous commies.
Page 6 of the spreadsheet gives workforce jobs by industry and the first column is for the agricultural industry.
The most recent data shows that 457 thousand are employed in the agricultural sector, that's 37 thousand more than a year ago, 53 thousand more than five years ago, 77 thousand more than ten years ago and 105 thousand more than fifteen years ago.
Doesn't seem to be a shortage of workers there to me.
Now lets compare the increase in workers to the increase in agricultural ouput:
A few simple calculations show that agricultural productivity rose steadily through the 1990s and peaked in 2002 and been on a slow downward trend since then.
So fifteen years of stagnation in the agricultural sector which suggests something has gone very wrong.
Now what might that be ? A switch from capital investment to an increasingly low skilled workforce perhaps ?
But let us put aside that issue and consider where this supposed shortage of agricultural workers could be met from.
See page 8(1) of labour market spreadsheet which gives as the latest unemployment number no less than 1.501 million people. Including no less than 281 thousand foreign born unemployed.
It seems that the current immigrants aren't 'willing to do the work' or at least aren't 'willing to do the work' for the pay and conditions being offered.
And yet we're told that the answer to this problem is 'more immigrants' and doubtless when they aren't 'willing to do the work' it will be 'more immigrants' again.
Or perhaps the UK agricultural sector should return to what worked so well in the century to 2002 ie capital investment and training leading to higher productivity, better pay and increased output.
Still its always amusing to see the Guardian campaign on behalf of businesses who aren't willing to offer fair pay and conditions.
I'd have a little more time for Corbyn's lambasting of the press for telling mistruths and smearing, if his own deputy hadn't used the press to smear innocent people (and worse).
This is exactly what a Corbyn government will bring: evil, odious people such as Watson working to get total control over the press; not to make the press better, but to use the press for their own ends.
Page 6 of the spreadsheet gives workforce jobs by industry and the first column is for the agricultural industry.
The most recent data shows that 457 thousand are employed in the agricultural sector, that's 37 thousand more than a year ago, 53 thousand more than five years ago, 77 thousand more than ten years ago and 105 thousand more than fifteen years ago.
Doesn't seem to be a shortage of workers there to me.
Now lets compare the increase in workers to the increase in agricultural ouput:
A few simple calculations show that agricultural productivity rose steadily through the 1990s and peaked in 2002 and been on a slow downward trend since then.
So fifteen years of stagnation in the agricultural sector which suggests something has gone very wrong.
Now what might that be ? A switch from capital investment to an increasingly low skilled workforce perhaps ?
But let us put aside that issue and consider where this supposed shortage of agricultural workers could be met from.
See page 8(1) of labour market spreadsheet which gives as the latest unemployment number no less than 1.501 million people. Including no less than 281 thousand foreign born unemployed.
It seems that the current immigrants aren't 'willing to do the work' or at least aren't 'willing to do the work' for the pay and conditions being offered.
And yet we're told that the answer to this problem is 'more immigrants' and doubtless when they aren't 'willing to do the work' it will be 'more immigrants' again.
Or perhaps the UK agricultural sector should return to what worked so well in the century to 2002 ie capital investment and training leading to higher productivity, better pay and increased output.
Still its always amusing to see the Guardian campaign on behalf of businesses who aren't willing to offer fair pay and conditions.
That's a very long post to ignore that:
1) the NFU sees a looming crisis and 2) Michael Gove uses language that gives a strong hint that he agrees.
Page 6 of the spreadsheet gives workforce jobs by industry and the first column is for the agricultural industry.
The most recent data shows that 457 thousand are employed in the agricultural sector, that's 37 thousand more than a year ago, 53 thousand more than five years ago, 77 thousand more than ten years ago and 105 thousand more than fifteen years ago.
Doesn't seem to be a shortage of workers there to me.
Now lets compare the increase in workers to the increase in agricultural ouput:
A few simple calculations show that agricultural productivity rose steadily through the 1990s and peaked in 2002 and been on a slow downward trend since then.
So fifteen years of stagnation in the agricultural sector which suggests something has gone very wrong.
Now what might that be ? A switch from capital investment to an increasingly low skilled workforce perhaps ?
But let us put aside that issue and consider where this supposed shortage of agricultural workers could be met from.
See page 8(1) of labour market spreadsheet which gives as the latest unemployment number no less than 1.501 million people. Including no less than 281 thousand foreign born unemployed.
It seems that the current immigrants aren't 'willing to do the work' or at least aren't 'willing to do the work' for the pay and conditions being offered.
And yet we're told that the answer to this problem is 'more immigrants' and doubtless when they aren't 'willing to do the work' it will be 'more immigrants' again.
Or perhaps the UK agricultural sector should return to what worked so well in the century to 2002 ie capital investment and training leading to higher productivity, better pay and increased output.
Still its always amusing to see the Guardian campaign on behalf of businesses who aren't willing to offer fair pay and conditions.
That's a very long post to ignore that:
1) the NFU sees a looming crisis and 2) Michael Gove uses language that gives a strong hint that he agrees.
What relevance is the following to farming: "the latest unemployment number no less than 1.501 million people."
The Tories need to drop all of this Corbyn was a spy rubbish. The Dems are trying (and failing) with that line against Trump. It's complete bullshit and no one cares what Jez may or may not have done 40 years ago.
Not really about whether he passed on secrets or not - it's about his character.
And he's appearing shifty and evasive - not a good look.
This is a long game and it's working so far - the story is continuing to run - and will do as long as he cowers behind not releasing his Stasi file.
I don't know how well it is working really. I was already not a fan of Corbyn but the whole thing just seemed a bit silly so I've not really bothered to keep up with events. Sure it's being talked about, but is it really being effective? I have no idea.
He's panicking and turning on the press themselves whilst refusing to answer questions. Doomed strategy.
He's a busted flush - peak Corbyn has long since passed.
Page 6 of the spreadsheet gives workforce jobs by industry and the first column is for the agricultural industry.
The most recent data shows that 457 thousand are employed in the agricultural sector, that's 37 thousand more than a year ago, 53 thousand more than five years ago, 77 thousand more than ten years ago and 105 thousand more than fifteen years ago.
Doesn't seem to be a shortage of workers there to me.
Now lets compare the increase in workers to the increase in agricultural ouput:
A few simple calculations show that agricultural productivity rose steadily through the 1990s and peaked in 2002 and been on a slow downward trend since then.
So fifteen years of stagnation in the agricultural sector which suggests something has gone very wrong.
Now what might that be ? A switch from capital investment to an increasingly low skilled workforce perhaps ?
But let us put aside that issue and consider where this supposed shortage of agricultural workers could be met from.
See page 8(1) of labour market spreadsheet which gives as the latest unemployment number no less than 1.501 million people. Including no less than 281 thousand foreign born unemployed.
It seems that the current immigrants aren't 'willing to do the work' or at least aren't 'willing to do the work' for the pay and conditions being offered.
And yet we're told that the answer to this problem is 'more immigrants' and doubtless when they aren't 'willing to do the work' it will be 'more immigrants' again.
Or perhaps the UK agricultural sector should return to what worked so well in the century to 2002 ie capital investment and training leading to higher productivity, better pay and increased output.
Still its always amusing to see the Guardian campaign on behalf of businesses who aren't willing to offer fair pay and conditions.
That's a very long post to ignore that:
1) the NFU sees a looming crisis and 2) Michael Gove uses language that gives a strong hint that he agrees.
The NFU want an endless source of taxpayer subsidised low cost workers ?
Well I'm shocked.
And it was a long post because it contained FACTS with links to ONS source documents.
Are there any other sectors of the economy where you think falling productivity and exploitative employers should be pandered to ?
Page 6 of the spreadsheet gives workforce jobs by industry and the first column is for the agricultural industry.
The most recent data shows that 457 thousand are employed in the agricultural sector, that's 37 thousand more than a year ago, 53 thousand more than five years ago, 77 thousand more than ten years ago and 105 thousand more than fifteen years ago.
Doesn't seem to be a shortage of workers there to me.
Now lets compare the increase in workers to the increase in agricultural ouput:
A few simple calculations show that agricultural productivity rose steadily through the 1990s and peaked in 2002 and been on a slow downward trend since then.
So fifteen years of stagnation in the agricultural sector which suggests something has gone very wrong.
Now what might that be ? A switch from capital investment to an increasingly low skilled workforce perhaps ?
But let us put aside that issue and consider where this supposed shortage of agricultural workers could be met from.
See page 8(1) of labour market spreadsheet which gives as the latest unemployment number no less than 1.501 million people. Including no less than 281 thousand foreign born unemployed.
Still its always amusing to see the Guardian campaign on behalf of businesses who aren't willing to offer fair pay and conditions.
That's a very long post to ignore that:
1) the NFU sees a looming crisis and 2) Michael Gove uses language that gives a strong hint that he agrees.
Brexit aside, we have, as I've mentioned once or twice before, a seasonal agricultural workers scheme of some sort or another since WW2. The last version only closed down in 2013 because the A2 transition period ended.
Even during the coalition it was clear that the UK was going to have to look beyond EU countries as no one wants to do seasonal work. Water under the bridge, but the accession of the western Balkan countries might have kept SAWS going another few years.
1) the NFU sees a looming crisis and 2) Michael Gove uses language that gives a strong hint that he agrees.
The NFU want an endless source of taxpayer subsidised low cost workers ?
Well I'm shocked.
And it was a long post because it contained FACTS with links to ONS source documents.
Are there any other sectors of the economy where you think falling productivity and exploitative employers should be pandered to ?
I take this as a tacit admission that you now accept that labour shortages in the agricultural sector is not in fact fake news.
I'm all in favour of higher wages for employees. But I don't recall reading about Leave pushing for higher food prices post-Brexit. Perhaps that was in red type on the red bus.
1) the NFU sees a looming crisis and 2) Michael Gove uses language that gives a strong hint that he agrees.
The NFU want an endless source of taxpayer subsidised low cost workers ?
Well I'm shocked.
And it was a long post because it contained FACTS with links to ONS source documents.
Are there any other sectors of the economy where you think falling productivity and exploitative employers should be pandered to ?
I take this as a tacit admission that you now accept that labour shortages in the agricultural sector is not in fact fake news.
I'm all in favour of higher wages for employees. But I don't recall reading about Leave pushing for higher food prices post-Brexit. Perhaps that was in red type on the red bus.
Another_Richard graphs are interesting though are they not. Is there any other industry where the workforce has increased so much for pretty much zero output gain ?
1) the NFU sees a looming crisis and 2) Michael Gove uses language that gives a strong hint that he agrees.
The NFU want an endless source of taxpayer subsidised low cost workers ?
Well I'm shocked.
And it was a long post because it contained FACTS with links to ONS source documents.
Are there any other sectors of the economy where you think falling productivity and exploitative employers should be pandered to ?
I take this as a tacit admission that you now accept that labour shortages in the agricultural sector is not in fact fake news.
I'm all in favour of higher wages for employees. But I don't recall reading about Leave pushing for higher food prices post-Brexit. Perhaps that was in red type on the red bus.
Another_Richard graphs are interesting though are they not. Is there any other industry where the workforce has increased so much for pretty much zero output gain ?
1) the NFU sees a looming crisis and 2) Michael Gove uses language that gives a strong hint that he agrees.
The NFU want an endless source of taxpayer subsidised low cost workers ?
Well I'm shocked.
And it was a long post because it contained FACTS with links to ONS source documents.
Are there any other sectors of the economy where you think falling productivity and exploitative employers should be pandered to ?
I take this as a tacit admission that you now accept that labour shortages in the agricultural sector is not in fact fake news.
I'm all in favour of higher wages for employees. But I don't recall reading about Leave pushing for higher food prices post-Brexit. Perhaps that was in red type on the red bus.
Another_Richard graphs are interesting though are they not. Is there any other industry where the workforce has increased so much for pretty much zero output gain ?
I defer to no one in my antipathy towards farmers.
I wonder whether this might be in part a reflection of the move to organic farming, with the higher prices but lower yields.
1) the NFU sees a looming crisis and 2) Michael Gove uses language that gives a strong hint that he agrees.
The NFU want an endless source of taxpayer subsidised low cost workers ?
Well I'm shocked.
And it was a long post because it contained FACTS with links to ONS source documents.
Are there any other sectors of the economy where you think falling productivity and exploitative employers should be pandered to ?
I take this as a tacit admission that you now accept that labour shortages in the agricultural sector is not in fact fake news.
I'm all in favour of higher wages for employees. But I don't recall reading about Leave pushing for higher food prices post-Brexit. Perhaps that was in red type on the red bus.
That agricultural employment is at a twenty year high doesn't suggest that there are crippling labour shortages.
But agricultural employment being at a twenty year high is a FACT and so something you seem disinclined to accept into your viewpoint.
Perhaps you'd like to give us a number as to this 'labour shortage'.
1) the NFU sees a looming crisis and 2) Michael Gove uses language that gives a strong hint that he agrees.
The NFU want an endless source of taxpayer subsidised low cost workers ?
Well I'm shocked.
And it was a long post because it contained FACTS with links to ONS source documents.
Are there any other sectors of the economy where you think falling productivity and exploitative employers should be pandered to ?
I take this as a tacit admission that you now accept that labour shortages in the agricultural sector is not in fact fake news.
I'm all in favour of higher wages for employees. But I don't recall reading about Leave pushing for higher food prices post-Brexit. Perhaps that was in red type on the red bus.
Another_Richard graphs are interesting though are they not. Is there any other industry where the workforce has increased so much for pretty much zero output gain ?
1) the NFU sees a looming crisis and 2) Michael Gove uses language that gives a strong hint that he agrees.
The NFU want an endless source of taxpayer subsidised low cost workers ?
Well I'm shocked.
And it was a long post because it contained FACTS with links to ONS source documents.
Are there any other sectors of the economy where you think falling productivity and exploitative employers should be pandered to ?
I take this as a tacit admission that you now accept that labour shortages in the agricultural sector is not in fact fake news.
I'm all in favour of higher wages for employees. But I don't recall reading about Leave pushing for higher food prices post-Brexit. Perhaps that was in red type on the red bus.
Another_Richard graphs are interesting though are they not. Is there any other industry where the workforce has increased so much for pretty much zero output gain ?
I defer to no one in my antipathy towards farmers.
I wonder whether this might be in part a reflection of the move to organic farming, with the higher prices but lower yields.
Animal welfare might be a part of it, though I think the extra workers tend to be more in arable.. further breakdown of the figures to crop and livestock could be useful
1) the NFU sees a looming crisis and 2) Michael Gove uses language that gives a strong hint that he agrees.
The NFU want an endless source of taxpayer subsidised low cost workers ?
Well I'm shocked.
And it was a long post because it contained FACTS with links to ONS source documents.
Are there any other sectors of the economy where you think falling productivity and exploitative employers should be pandered to ?
I take this as a tacit admission that you now accept that labour shortages in the agricultural sector is not in fact fake news.
I'm all in favour of higher wages for employees. But I don't recall reading about Leave pushing for higher food prices post-Brexit. Perhaps that was in red type on the red bus.
Another_Richard graphs are interesting though are they not. Is there any other industry where the workforce has increased so much for pretty much zero output gain ?
I defer to no one in my antipathy towards farmers.
I wonder whether this might be in part a reflection of the move to organic farming, with the higher prices but lower yields.
Between 2012 and 2016, Croatia and Bulgaria recorded growth in the total organic area of over 100 %. However, five EU Member States reported a downward trend: Greece (-25.9 %), Malta (-35.1 %), Poland (-18.1 %), Romania (-21.5 %) and the United Kingdom (-16.9 %).
1) the NFU sees a looming crisis and 2) Michael Gove uses language that gives a strong hint that he agrees.
The NFU want an endless source of taxpayer subsidised low cost workers ?
Well I'm shocked.
And it was a long post because it contained FACTS with links to ONS source documents.
Are there any other sectors of the economy where you think falling productivity and exploitative employers should be pandered to ?
I take this as a tacit admission that you now accept that labour shortages in the agricultural sector is not in fact fake news.
I'm all in favour of higher wages for employees. But I don't recall reading about Leave pushing for higher food prices post-Brexit. Perhaps that was in red type on the red bus.
In your world, having to hire the necessary 10-20k extra people (per the Guardian story) means universally higher food prices. OK.
Also from the article, it explicitly states that EU countries are having to look beyond the EU's borders for seasonal workers, specifically, the Ukraine, Morocco and (bizarrely) Thailand.
The Tories need to drop all of this Corbyn was a spy rubbish. The Dems are trying (and failing) with that line against Trump. It's complete bullshit and no one cares what Jez may or may not have done 40 years ago.
Not really about whether he passed on secrets or not - it's about his character.
And he's appearing shifty and evasive - not a good look.
This is a long game and it's working so far - the story is continuing to run - and will do as long as he cowers behind not releasing his Stasi file.
I don't know how well it is working really. I was already not a fan of Corbyn but the whole thing just seemed a bit silly so I've not really bothered to keep up with events. Sure it's being talked about, but is it really being effective? I have no idea.
He's panicking and turning on the press themselves whilst refusing to answer questions. Doomed strategy.
He's a busted flush - peak Corbyn has long since passed.
1) the NFU sees a looming crisis and 2) Michael Gove uses language that gives a strong hint that he agrees.
The NFU want an endless source of taxpayer subsidised low cost workers ?
Well I'm shocked.
And it was a long post because it contained FACTS with links to ONS source documents.
Are there any other sectors of the economy where you think falling productivity and exploitative employers should be pandered to ?
I take this as a tacit admission that you now accept that labour shortages in the agricultural sector is not in fact fake news.
I'm all in favour of higher wages for employees. But I don't recall reading about Leave pushing for higher food prices post-Brexit. Perhaps that was in red type on the red bus.
I don't. If employment is at a record high but output isn't then there is a productivity shortage not a labour shortage.
1) the NFU sees a looming crisis and 2) Michael Gove uses language that gives a strong hint that he agrees.
The NFU want an endless source of taxpayer subsidised low cost workers ?
Well I'm shocked.
And it was a long post because it contained FACTS with links to ONS source documents.
Are there any other sectors of the economy where you think falling productivity and exploitative employers should be pandered to ?
I take this as a tacit admission that you now accept that labour shortages in the agricultural sector is not in fact fake news.
I'm all in favour of higher wages for employees. But I don't recall reading about Leave pushing for higher food prices post-Brexit. Perhaps that was in red type on the red bus.
In your world, having to hire the necessary 10-20k extra people (per the Guardian story) means universally higher food prices. OK.
Also from the article, it explicitly states that EU countries are having to look beyond the EU's borders for seasonal workers, specifically, the Ukraine, Morocco and (bizarrely) Thailand.
So is that the great 'labour shortage' ???
LOL
That's less than 5% of the total agricultural workforce and doubtless a lot less in reality.
Or as its otherwise known - job vacancies.
A marginal increase in productivity or improved pay and conditions sorts that out.
And who is suffering from this 'labour shortage' ?
Is it Farmer Smith who has invested in plant and equipment ? No.
Is it Farmer Jones who offers fair pay and conditions ? No.
Or is it Famer Brown who does neither of the above ? Could beeee.....
1) the NFU sees a looming crisis and 2) Michael Gove uses language that gives a strong hint that he agrees.
The NFU want an endless source of taxpayer subsidised low cost workers ?
Well I'm shocked.
And it was a long post because it contained FACTS with links to ONS source documents.
Are there any other sectors of the economy where you think falling productivity and exploitative employers should be pandered to ?
I take this as a tacit admission that you now accept that labour shortages in the agricultural sector is not in fact fake news.
I'm all in favour of higher wages for employees. But I don't recall reading about Leave pushing for higher food prices post-Brexit. Perhaps that was in red type on the red bus.
I don't. If employment is at a record high but output isn't then there is a productivity shortage not a labour shortage.
I suspect that the problem is the ever increasing restrictions on the use of fertilisers and phosphate. Not saying that is a bad thing but it does affect output.
I still don't see why the agricultural sector should get a special class of worker that is restricted to just agriculture. If it wants workers it can raise the pay and conditions as necessary to get them.
And while we are it, we can eliminate quotas on food imports. Working class families deserve a break in living costs.
1) the NFU sees a looming crisis and 2) Michael Gove uses language that gives a strong hint that he agrees.
The NFU want an endless source of taxpayer subsidised low cost workers ?
Well I'm shocked.
And it was a long post because it contained FACTS with links to ONS source documents.
Are there any other sectors of the economy where you think falling productivity and exploitative employers should be pandered to ?
I take this as a tacit admission that you now accept that labour shortages in the agricultural sector is not in fact fake news.
I'm all in favour of higher wages for employees. But I don't recall reading about Leave pushing for higher food prices post-Brexit. Perhaps that was in red type on the red bus.
I don't. If employment is at a record high but output isn't then there is a productivity shortage not a labour shortage.
And a change of crops. Far more labour intensive crops such ss strawberries thantheret were 15 or so years ago.
Is it true that Corbyn's Czech spymaster is now claiming credit for Live Aid? The anti-Corbyn press might look a bit silly if it turns out their explosive source isn't playing with a full deck.
The Tories need to drop all of this Corbyn was a spy rubbish. The Dems are trying (and failing) with that line against Trump. It's complete bullshit and no one cares what Jez may or may not have done 40 years ago.
Not really about whether he passed on secrets or not - it's about his character.
And he's appearing shifty and evasive - not a good look.
This is a long game and it's working so far - the story is continuing to run - and will do as long as he cowers behind not releasing his Stasi file.
I don't know how well it is working really. I was already not a fan of Corbyn but the whole thing just seemed a bit silly so I've not really bothered to keep up with events. Sure it's being talked about, but is it really being effective? I have no idea.
He's panicking and turning on the press themselves whilst refusing to answer questions. Doomed strategy.
He's a busted flush - peak Corbyn has long since passed.
He's a supporter of the Leveson controls on the press. What do you expect?
It's a play from the Trump book, "fake news" etc...
Yet the man is perfectly happen to be a paid propaganda tool of the Kremlin and the Ayatollahs. The threats to the press and the accusation that all criticism is from "the corrupt" sounds very Trumpish. I don't know how any reasonable person can support this man.
Yeah, I wasn't being snarky at all. Invest in technology, increase productivity, improve skills, and pay better wages. Of course that's not the British way.
1) the NFU sees a looming crisis and 2) Michael Gove uses language that gives a strong hint that he agrees.
The NFU want an endless source of taxpayer subsidised low cost workers ?
Well I'm shocked.
And it was a long post because it contained FACTS with links to ONS source documents.
Are there any other sectors of the economy where you think falling productivity and exploitative employers should be pandered to ?
I take this as a tacit admission that you now accept that labour shortages in the agricultural sector is not in fact fake news.
I'm all in favour of higher wages for employees. But I don't recall reading about Leave pushing for higher food prices post-Brexit. Perhaps that was in red type on the red bus.
Another_Richard graphs are interesting though are they not. Is there any other industry where the workforce has increased so much for pretty much zero output gain ?
I defer to no one in my antipathy towards farmers.
I wonder whether this might be in part a reflection of the move to organic farming, with the higher prices but lower yields.
Animal welfare might be a part of it, though I think the extra workers tend to be more in arable.. further breakdown of the figures to crop and livestock could be useful
around here there has been a shift from heavily mechanised grain and dairy, to more labour intensive agriculture. In time there could be a shift back, but the uncertainty over been flooded by cheap imports will inhibit investment.
I was chatting to my farmer friend who sublets my field. He runs a mixed farm, in the extended family for generations. Like most farmers he takes a long perspective, but he is bearish on the short term. Each year he sells a thousand lambs to French buyers. 2017 and 2018 look good as devaluation has given him a boost. 2019? He just doesn't know, but needs certainty for the summer, or he may have a thousand lambs with no buyer. Without certainty he will be investing less rather than more.
Page 6 of the spreadsheet gives workforce jobs by industry and the first column is for the agricultural industry.
The most recent data shows that 457 thousand are employed in the agricultural sector, that's 37 thousand more than a year ago, 53 thousand more than five years ago, 77 thousand more than ten years ago and 105 thousand more than fifteen years ago.
Doesn't seem to be a shortage of workers there to me.
Now lets compare the increase in workers to the increase in agricultural ouput:
A few simple calculations show that agricultural productivity rose steadily through the 1990s and peaked in 2002 and been on a slow downward trend since then.
So fifteen years of stagnation in the agricultural sector which suggests something has gone very wrong.
Now what might that be ? A switch from capital investment to an increasingly low skilled workforce perhaps ?
But let us put aside that issue and consider where this supposed shortage of agricultural workers could be met from.
See page 8(1) of labour market spreadsheet which gives as the latest unemployment number no less than 1.501 million people. Including no less than 281 thousand foreign born unemployed.
It seems that the current immigrants aren't 'willing to do the work' or at least aren't 'willing to do the work' for the pay and conditions being offered.
And yet we're told that the answer to this problem is 'more immigrants' and doubtless when they aren't 'willing to do the work' it will be 'more immigrants' again.
Or perhaps the UK agricultural sector should return to what worked so well in the century to 2002 ie capital investment and training leading to higher productivity, better pay and increased output.
Still its always amusing to see the Guardian campaign on behalf of businesses who aren't willing to offer fair pay and conditions.
That's a very long post to ignore that:
1) the NFU sees a looming crisis and 2) Michael Gove uses language that gives a strong hint that he agrees.
Yeah, I wasn't being snarky at all. Invest in technology, increase productivity, improve skills, and pay better wages. Of course that's not the British way.
There's negative votes to be gained in encouraging organisations to fire people and replace them with better machines and processes. But I don't think that's a particularly UK-exclusive disease; the Americans and French seem to have that issue too.
Is it true that Corbyn's Czech spymaster is now claiming credit for Live Aid? The anti-Corbyn press might look a bit silly if it turns out their explosive source isn't playing with a full deck.
There's negative votes to be gained in encouraging organisations to fire people and replace them with better machines and processes. But I don't think that's a particularly UK-exclusive disease; the Americans and French seem to have that issue too.
I know, there does seem to be a view that we measure the success of businesses and public services by the size of the workforce. Labour is a finite resource, using it efficiently is a good thing, and it would be nice to see politicians making the case for doing so.
There is an interesting discussion to be had about productivity in the agricultural sector, the dependence on seasonal migration, about short term pain or long term pain, and about whether employment in the sector is how people think it is. The NFU have come out to bat for the status quo, government minded to pick its battles... not exactly revolutionary.
Yet somehow it all becomes "something something Brexit is bad". Surely we can do better as a level of debate?
Fourth place in the PL might not get Champions League football next season...
England look set to get a lot of performance points this season with City and Liverpool already through.
Sorry, I meant finishing fourth this season is no guarantee of being in the Champions League next season.
As I say that, Barca equalise.
And to add, they've changed the qualification structure so the top four leagues get four places anyway, so there's little danger of us losing our fourth place now.
Fourth place in the PL might not get Champions League football next season...
England look set to get a lot of performance points this season with City and Liverpool already through.
Sorry, I meant, finishing fourth this season is no guarantee of being in the Champions League next season.
As I say that, Barca equalise.
Contingent on Arsenal winning the Europa League? Doesn't that create a fifth place this year, in the unlikely event of it happening.
That's right. Arsenal are a 6-1 shot for the Europa League. I don't really want to see Chelsea win the Champions League again, but it would be amusing if Spurs finished fourth and missed out. Again.
I still don't see why the agricultural sector should get a special class of worker that is restricted to just agriculture. If it wants workers it can raise the pay and conditions as necessary to get them.
And while we are it, we can eliminate quotas on food imports. Working class families deserve a break in living costs.
It's not that simple. Seasonal work is crap, for obvious reasons. However, picking crops like soft fruit also requires some skill, so you can't just employ Johnny Teenager and expect good results.
We've had seasonal worker schemes long before the EEC or EU. However, they are not jobs that anyone would aspire to; it's not just the Brits who don't want them. As the Guardian article reports, even non-Brexit countries are struggling to find the workforce.
Fourth place in the PL might not get Champions League football next season...
England look set to get a lot of performance points this season with City and Liverpool already through.
Sorry, I meant, finishing fourth this season is no guarantee of being in the Champions League next season.
As I say that, Barca equalise.
Contingent on Arsenal winning the Europa League? Doesn't that create a fifth place this year, in the unlikely event of it happening.
Indeed it does, as happened with United last/this season.
Only reason 4th doesn't get Champions League next season is that as always the 4th has to play a final pre-season qualifying game before the group stages. But that's always the case.
England's 4th spot was at risk but with the dominance in the group stages (all 5 English clubs won their group) and already Liverpool and City at least almost certainly through if not more then that's no longer credibly at risk.
Fourth place in the PL might not get Champions League football next season...
England look set to get a lot of performance points this season with City and Liverpool already through.
Sorry, I meant, finishing fourth this season is no guarantee of being in the Champions League next season.
As I say that, Barca equalise.
Contingent on Arsenal winning the Europa League? Doesn't that create a fifth place this year, in the unlikely event of it happening.
Indeed it does, as happened with United last/this season.
Only reason 4th doesn't get Champions League next season is that as always the 4th has to play a final pre-season qualifying game before the group stages. But that's always the case.
England's 4th spot was at risk but with the dominance in the group stages (all 5 English clubs won their group) and already Liverpool and City at least almost certainly through if not more then that's no longer credibly at risk.
No, the top four from the top four leagues go straight into the group stages from next season:
Fourth place in the PL might not get Champions League football next season...
England look set to get a lot of performance points this season with City and Liverpool already through.
Sorry, I meant, finishing fourth this season is no guarantee of being in the Champions League next season.
As I say that, Barca equalise.
Contingent on Arsenal winning the Europa League? Doesn't that create a fifth place this year, in the unlikely event of it happening.
That's right. Arsenal are a 6-1 shot for the Europa League. I don't really want to see Chelsea win the Champions League again, but it would be amusing if Spurs finished fourth and missed out. Again.
They don't miss out, Arsenal get a 5th English spot if that happens just as United did this season.
Only reason 4th misses out now is if both the Champions League AND the Europa League are both won by English clubs that finish outside the top 4. If by some freak of chance the league ended as it is at the moment but 5th placed Chelsea won the Champions League and 6th placed Arsenal won Europa League then and only then would 4th miss out.
Fourth place in the PL might not get Champions League football next season...
England look set to get a lot of performance points this season with City and Liverpool already through.
Sorry, I meant, finishing fourth this season is no guarantee of being in the Champions League next season.
As I say that, Barca equalise.
Contingent on Arsenal winning the Europa League? Doesn't that create a fifth place this year, in the unlikely event of it happening.
Indeed it does, as happened with United last/this season.
Only reason 4th doesn't get Champions League next season is that as always the 4th has to play a final pre-season qualifying game before the group stages. But that's always the case.
England's 4th spot was at risk but with the dominance in the group stages (all 5 English clubs won their group) and already Liverpool and City at least almost certainly through if not more then that's no longer credibly at risk.
Leicester are in the mix for a Europa League place, either via winning the FA cup (the trophy conspicuous by its absence at Leicester) or failing that 7th place. Puel likes the cup, and now Man City are gone, Puel will take it seriously.
Fourth place in the PL might not get Champions League football next season...
England look set to get a lot of performance points this season with City and Liverpool already through.
Sorry, I meant, finishing fourth this season is no guarantee of being in the Champions League next season.
As I say that, Barca equalise.
Contingent on Arsenal winning the Europa League? Doesn't that create a fifth place this year, in the unlikely event of it happening.
That's right. Arsenal are a 6-1 shot for the Europa League. I don't really want to see Chelsea win the Champions League again, but it would be amusing if Spurs finished fourth and missed out. Again.
They don't miss out, Arsenal get a 5th English spot if that happens just as United did this season.
Only reason 4th misses out now is if both the Champions League AND the Europa League are both won by English clubs that finish outside the top 4. If by some freak of chance the league ended as it is at the moment but 5th placed Chelsea won the Champions League and 6th placed Arsenal won Europa League then and only then would 4th miss out.
Sorry, I meant it would be funny if Spurs missed out again (i.e. they missed out in 2012).
There's negative votes to be gained in encouraging organisations to fire people and replace them with better machines and processes. But I don't think that's a particularly UK-exclusive disease; the Americans and French seem to have that issue too.
I know, there does seem to be a view that we measure the success of businesses and public services by the size of the workforce. Labour is a finite resource, using it efficiently is a good thing, and it would be nice to see politicians making the case for doing so.
You'd have to be particularly brave or particularly foolish to suggest something that would see you described by large elements of the press, the unions, and the public as a migrant-bashing, common-worker-hating monster. To risk being vilified for the remainder of your days takes a strong constitution.
Fourth place in the PL might not get Champions League football next season...
England look set to get a lot of performance points this season with City and Liverpool already through.
Sorry, I meant, finishing fourth this season is no guarantee of being in the Champions League next season.
As I say that, Barca equalise.
Contingent on Arsenal winning the Europa League? Doesn't that create a fifth place this year, in the unlikely event of it happening.
Indeed it does, as happened with United last/this season.
Only reason 4th doesn't get Champions League next season is that as always the 4th has to play a final pre-season qualifying game before the group stages. But that's always the case.
England's 4th spot was at risk but with the dominance in the group stages (all 5 English clubs won their group) and already Liverpool and City at least almost certainly through if not more then that's no longer credibly at risk.
No, the top four from the top four leagues go straight into the group stages from next season:
That's a change. When was that agreed? At the start of the season there was a lot of talk about us potentially losing the 4th spot (as we could have dropped to 4th-ranked league). We're well ahead of 5th though.
Already this season we've gained enough points to go from maybe-dropping-to-4th to now-upto-2nd. Having 5 clubs reach the last 16 has given us a massive points bonus.
Fourth place in the PL might not get Champions League football next season...
England look set to get a lot of performance points this season with City and Liverpool already through.
Sorry, I meant, finishing fourth this season is no guarantee of being in the Champions League next season.
As I say that, Barca equalise.
Contingent on Arsenal winning the Europa League? Doesn't that create a fifth place this year, in the unlikely event of it happening.
That's right. Arsenal are a 6-1 shot for the Europa League. I don't really want to see Chelsea win the Champions League again, but it would be amusing if Spurs finished fourth and missed out. Again.
They don't miss out, Arsenal get a 5th English spot if that happens just as United did this season.
Only reason 4th misses out now is if both the Champions League AND the Europa League are both won by English clubs that finish outside the top 4. If by some freak of chance the league ended as it is at the moment but 5th placed Chelsea won the Champions League and 6th placed Arsenal won Europa League then and only then would 4th miss out.
Sorry, I meant it would be funny if Spurs missed out again (i.e. they missed out in 2012).
I get you. It is technically possible but hugely unlikely with the new rules (it was a lot more likely in 2012).
Fourth place in the PL might not get Champions League football next season...
England look set to get a lot of performance points this season with City and Liverpool already through.
Sorry, I meant, finishing fourth this season is no guarantee of being in the Champions League next season.
As I say that, Barca equalise.
Contingent on Arsenal winning the Europa League? Doesn't that create a fifth place this year, in the unlikely event of it happening.
Indeed it does, as happened with United last/this season.
Only reason 4th doesn't get Champions League next season is that as always the 4th has to play a final pre-season qualifying game before the group stages. But that's always the case.
England's 4th spot was at risk but with the dominance in the group stages (all 5 English clubs won their group) and already Liverpool and City at least almost certainly through if not more then that's no longer credibly at risk.
No, the top four from the top four leagues go straight into the group stages from next season:
That's a change. When was that agreed? At the start of the season there was a lot of talk about us potentially losing the 4th spot (as we could have dropped to 4th-ranked league). We're well ahead of 5th though.
Already this season we've gained enough points to go from maybe-dropping-to-4th to now-upto-2nd. Having 5 clubs reach the last 16 has given us a massive points bonus.
December 2016. Things looked a bit dodgy at the start of 2016-17, but once the change was announced it ceased to be an issue. As you say, we've done really well this season and it's the Germans who'd have been in danger. In fact, as things stand, the Germans have fallen to fourth:
There is an interesting discussion to be had about productivity in the agricultural sector, the dependence on seasonal migration, about short term pain or long term pain, and about whether employment in the sector is how people think it is. The NFU have come out to bat for the status quo, government minded to pick its battles... not exactly revolutionary.
Yet somehow it all becomes "something something Brexit is bad". Surely we can do better as a level of debate?
I think there's gross misreporting of the problem. When SAWS was shut down in 2013, the quota for workers was 21,250. The non-EEA quota was 20,700. While everyone appreciates that labour shortages can be devastating for perishable goods, we have to keep a sense of perspective. Given a labour force north of 30 million people, we're talking about tiny numbers.
Fourth place in the PL might not get Champions League football next season...
England look set to get a lot of performance points this season with City and Liverpool already through.
Sorry, I meant, finishing fourth this season is no guarantee of being in the Champions League next season.
As I say that, Barca equalise.
Contingent on Arsenal winning the Europa League? Doesn't that create a fifth place this year, in the unlikely event of it happening.
Indeed it does, as happened with United last/this season.
Only reason 4th doesn't get Champions League next season is that as always the 4th has to play a final pre-season qualifying game before the group stages. But that's always the case.
England's 4th spot was at risk but with the dominance in the group stages (all 5 English clubs won their group) and already Liverpool and City at least almost certainly through if not more then that's no longer credibly at risk.
No, the top four from the top four leagues go straight into the group stages from next season:
That's a change. When was that agreed? At the start of the season there was a lot of talk about us potentially losing the 4th spot (as we could have dropped to 4th-ranked league). We're well ahead of 5th though.
Already this season we've gained enough points to go from maybe-dropping-to-4th to now-upto-2nd. Having 5 clubs reach the last 16 has given us a massive points bonus.
In the end the overwhelming financial muscle of the EPL was bound to have an effect. It may now be showing.
At what point do the rest of the leagues come up with a tax on domestic television rights?
It seems like a self evidently stupid question, since what would be the point of the law if a leader could simply pardon themselves for crimes, but perhaps there are possibilities.
Fourth place in the PL might not get Champions League football next season...
England look set to get a lot of performance points this season with City and Liverpool already through.
Sorry, I meant, finishing fourth this season is no guarantee of being in the Champions League next season.
As I say that, Barca equalise.
Contingent on Arsenal winning the Europa League? Doesn't that create a fifth place this year, in the unlikely event of it happening.
Indeed it does, as happened with United last/this season.
Only reason 4th doesn't get Champions League next season is that as always the 4th has to play a final pre-season qualifying game before the group stages. But that's always the case.
England's 4th spot was at risk but with the dominance in the group stages (all 5 English clubs won their group) and already Liverpool and City at least almost certainly through if not more then that's no longer credibly at risk.
No, the top four from the top four leagues go straight into the group stages from next season:
That's a change. When was that agreed? At the start of the season there was a lot of talk about us potentially losing the 4th spot (as we could have dropped to 4th-ranked league). We're well ahead of 5th though.
Already this season we've gained enough points to go from maybe-dropping-to-4th to now-upto-2nd. Having 5 clubs reach the last 16 has given us a massive points bonus.
In the end the overwhelming financial muscle of the EPL was bound to have an effect. It may now be showing.
At what point do the rest of the leagues come up with a tax on domestic television rights?
Fourth place in the PL might not get Champions League football next season...
England look set to get a lot of performance points this season with City and Liverpool already through.
Sorry, I meant, finishing fourth this season is no guarantee of being in the Champions League next season.
As I say that, Barca equalise.
Contingent on Arsenal winning the Europa League? Doesn't that create a fifth place this year, in the unlikely event of it happening.
Indeed it does, as happened with United last/this season.
Only reason 4th doesn't get Champions League next season is that as always the 4th has to play a final pre-season qualifying game before the group stages. But that's always the case.
England's 4th spot was at risk but with the dominance in the group stages (all 5 English clubs won their group) and already Liverpool and City at least almost certainly through if not more then that's no longer credibly at risk.
No, the top four from the top four leagues go straight into the group stages from next season:
That's a change. When was that agreed? At the start of the season there was a lot of talk about us potentially losing the 4th spot (as we could have dropped to 4th-ranked league). We're well ahead of 5th though.
Already this season we've gained enough points to go from maybe-dropping-to-4th to now-upto-2nd. Having 5 clubs reach the last 16 has given us a massive points bonus.
In the end the overwhelming financial muscle of the EPL was bound to have an effect. It may now be showing.
At what point do the rest of the leagues come up with a tax on domestic television rights?
They'd surely love to. The success of the EPL abroad is really quite bizarre. I was in Mauritius a couple of weeks ago and they are all obsessed with English football. Literally every cab driver or waiter or guide or whatever asked me about it, when they heard I was English, and they asked extremely well-informed questions which left me completely baffled (I watch a few games a year).
They watch it on TV every day and listen to it on radio, endlessly.
IIhad a bizarre arrival in Myanmar, some years ago, met off the plane by the head of the Burmese GMC, then taken to dinner in a place with Spurs vs someone on in the background. I have also watched matches in Malawi. The penetrance is phenomenal.
In the end the overwhelming financial muscle of the EPL was bound to have an effect. It may now be showing.
At what point do the rest of the leagues come up with a tax on domestic television rights?
They'd surely love to. The success of the EPL abroad is really quite bizarre. I was in Mauritius a couple of weeks ago and they are all obsessed with English football. Literally every cab driver or waiter or guide or whatever asked me about it, when they heard I was English, and they asked extremely well-informed questions which left me completely baffled (I watch a few games a year).
They watch it on TV every day and listen to it on radio, endlessly.
Good, full stadia Fantastic playing surfaces A fair distribution of revenue An attacking culture Money from billionaires
Oddly, I don't think it's quite as good now we have an established Big 6. When it was the Big 4, the rest of the teams could dream of breaking into the Top 4. Now that the money from the Champions League isn't that big a deal (Leeds United anyone?), the rest of the clubs tend to focus on survival. Leicester City very much timed their fantastic season to perfection.
Comments
Ah, another forecast.
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/966032765610315778
Languages evolve. I just picked up a lovely copy of Bosworth's Anglo saxon dictionary, 1838. Unsurprisingly, perhaps, in Oxford, where there is a high concentration of speakers because of the English degree there. However, Oxford councils are not obliged to make road signs out of the language, thank his.
Different sides though surely?
Now lets look at some facts as regards agricultural workers.
The most recent ONS Labour market data is available in the spreadsheet found here:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/datasets/summaryoflabourmarketstatistics
Page 6 of the spreadsheet gives workforce jobs by industry and the first column is for the agricultural industry.
The most recent data shows that 457 thousand are employed in the agricultural sector, that's 37 thousand more than a year ago, 53 thousand more than five years ago, 77 thousand more than ten years ago and 105 thousand more than fifteen years ago.
Doesn't seem to be a shortage of workers there to me.
Now lets compare the increase in workers to the increase in agricultural ouput:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/timeseries/l2kl/pgdp
A few simple calculations show that agricultural productivity rose steadily through the 1990s and peaked in 2002 and been on a slow downward trend since then.
So fifteen years of stagnation in the agricultural sector which suggests something has gone very wrong.
Now what might that be ? A switch from capital investment to an increasingly low skilled workforce perhaps ?
But let us put aside that issue and consider where this supposed shortage of agricultural workers could be met from.
See page 8(1) of labour market spreadsheet which gives as the latest unemployment number no less than 1.501 million people. Including no less than 281 thousand foreign born unemployed.
It seems that the current immigrants aren't 'willing to do the work' or at least aren't 'willing to do the work' for the pay and conditions being offered.
And yet we're told that the answer to this problem is 'more immigrants' and doubtless when they aren't 'willing to do the work' it will be 'more immigrants' again.
Or perhaps the UK agricultural sector should return to what worked so well in the century to 2002 ie capital investment and training leading to higher productivity, better pay and increased output.
Still its always amusing to see the Guardian campaign on behalf of businesses who aren't willing to offer fair pay and conditions.
This is exactly what a Corbyn government will bring: evil, odious people such as Watson working to get total control over the press; not to make the press better, but to use the press for their own ends.
1) the NFU sees a looming crisis and
2) Michael Gove uses language that gives a strong hint that he agrees.
How many of them live anywhere near a field?
https://twitter.com/sundersays/status/966034028477538304
Well I'm shocked.
And it was a long post because it contained FACTS with links to ONS source documents.
Are there any other sectors of the economy where you think falling productivity and exploitative employers should be pandered to ?
Even during the coalition it was clear that the UK was going to have to look beyond EU countries as no one wants to do seasonal work. Water under the bridge, but the accession of the western Balkan countries might have kept SAWS going another few years.
I'm all in favour of higher wages for employees. But I don't recall reading about Leave pushing for higher food prices post-Brexit. Perhaps that was in red type on the red bus.
Instead of doing all the gardening jobs myself I think the government should provide a suitable workforce.
Terms and conditions offered are £1 per day and a kick in the arse if I'm not happy.
In fact we're all missing out - just think how much longer we could all spend on PB if gardeners are provided for us all.
I wonder if we can get the Guardian to campaign on our behalf.
I wonder whether this might be in part a reflection of the move to organic farming, with the higher prices but lower yields.
But agricultural employment being at a twenty year high is a FACT and so something you seem disinclined to accept into your viewpoint.
Perhaps you'd like to give us a number as to this 'labour shortage'.
Between 2012 and 2016, Croatia and Bulgaria recorded growth in the total organic area of over 100 %. However, five EU Member States reported a downward trend: Greece (-25.9 %), Malta (-35.1 %), Poland (-18.1 %), Romania (-21.5 %) and the United Kingdom (-16.9 %).
Also from the article, it explicitly states that EU countries are having to look beyond the EU's borders for seasonal workers, specifically, the Ukraine, Morocco and (bizarrely) Thailand.
LOL
That's less than 5% of the total agricultural workforce and doubtless a lot less in reality.
Or as its otherwise known - job vacancies.
A marginal increase in productivity or improved pay and conditions sorts that out.
And who is suffering from this 'labour shortage' ?
Is it Farmer Smith who has invested in plant and equipment ? No.
Is it Farmer Jones who offers fair pay and conditions ? No.
Or is it Famer Brown who does neither of the above ? Could beeee.....
And while we are it, we can eliminate quotas on food imports. Working class families deserve a break in living costs.
I was chatting to my farmer friend who sublets my field. He runs a mixed farm, in the extended family for generations. Like most farmers he takes a long perspective, but he is bearish on the short term. Each year he sells a thousand lambs to French buyers. 2017 and 2018 look good as devaluation has given him a boost. 2019? He just doesn't know, but needs certainty for the summer, or he may have a thousand lambs with no buyer. Without certainty he will be investing less rather than more.
https://twitter.com/SRUC/status/965501206633136129
Nixon in China I guess
https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/965020548592996357
There is an interesting discussion to be had about productivity in the agricultural sector, the dependence on seasonal migration, about short term pain or long term pain, and about whether employment in the sector is how people think it is. The NFU have come out to bat for the status quo, government minded to pick its battles... not exactly revolutionary.
Yet somehow it all becomes "something something Brexit is bad". Surely we can do better as a level of debate?
As I say that, Barca equalise.
And to add, they've changed the qualification structure so the top four leagues get four places anyway, so there's little danger of us losing our fourth place now.
We've had seasonal worker schemes long before the EEC or EU. However, they are not jobs that anyone would aspire to; it's not just the Brits who don't want them. As the Guardian article reports, even non-Brexit countries are struggling to find the workforce.
Only reason 4th doesn't get Champions League next season is that as always the 4th has to play a final pre-season qualifying game before the group stages. But that's always the case.
England's 4th spot was at risk but with the dominance in the group stages (all 5 English clubs won their group) and already Liverpool and City at least almost certainly through if not more then that's no longer credibly at risk.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018–19_UEFA_Champions_League
Only reason 4th misses out now is if both the Champions League AND the Europa League are both won by English clubs that finish outside the top 4. If by some freak of chance the league ended as it is at the moment but 5th placed Chelsea won the Champions League and 6th placed Arsenal won Europa League then and only then would 4th miss out.
I hope information to him is being restricted, in a way that it shouldn't to LOTOs.
Already this season we've gained enough points to go from maybe-dropping-to-4th to now-upto-2nd. Having 5 clubs reach the last 16 has given us a massive points bonus.
https://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method5/crank2018.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world/us_and_canada
Yep - he's hinted at it
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/7/21/16007934/donald-trump-mueller-russia-investigation-pardon-impeachment
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-30/trump-russia-and-the-early-murmurs-about-pardons-quicktake-q-a
It seems like a self evidently stupid question, since what would be the point of the law if a leader could simply pardon themselves for crimes, but perhaps there are possibilities.
Mueller's going after lawyers now.
I'd always assumed being a lawyer for Trump would be a difficult assignment, but it just got doubly difficult.
https://twitter.com/TheBeatWithAri/status/966032264764239872
Unlucky for Trump that Mueller's been working with the Attorneys-General of several states.
NEW THREAD
Fantastic playing surfaces
A fair distribution of revenue
An attacking culture
Money from billionaires
Oddly, I don't think it's quite as good now we have an established Big 6. When it was the Big 4, the rest of the teams could dream of breaking into the Top 4. Now that the money from the Champions League isn't that big a deal (Leeds United anyone?), the rest of the clubs tend to focus on survival. Leicester City very much timed their fantastic season to perfection.