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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » TMay in third place as “best PM” in latest YouGov London poll

SystemSystem Posts: 6,199
edited February 21 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » TMay in third place as “best PM” in latest YouGov London poll

With the votes in London at the May local elections likely to dominate coverage a new YouGov poll QMUL has bad news for the Conservatives.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • The Tories are doomed in London. DOOMED.
  • I'm surprised Mrs May is as high as third in London on the best PM front.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 45,077
    edited February 21
    I've found what surely is the "winner"...

    Birmingham Hall Green and Solihull.

    49.35% swing !
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 6,494
    Third, like May. At least I have a sense of humour.
  • Pulpstar said:

    I've found what surely is the "winner"...

    Birmingham Hall Green and Solihull.

    What's the swing on that?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 45,077

    Pulpstar said:

    I've found what surely is the "winner"...

    Birmingham Hall Green and Solihull.

    What's the swing on that?
    Almost 50%.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 6,380
    So 6% of Londoners are happy to vote for a Tory Council but not a Tory Government led by May.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 6,865
    John_M said:

    Third, like May. At least I have a sense of humour.

    Like May, you just don't quite get there.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 18,108
    London voters want NOTA eh? Well, Tories will be happy to oblige, come the next general election. Labour? Not so much.....
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,424

    The Tories are doomed in London. DOOMED.

    So are Londoners, by the looks of it. I mean, I take it these are supposed to be sentient beings, right? And they want Corbyn as PM???
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 21,890

    So 6% of Londoners are happy to vote for a Tory Council but not a Tory Government led by May.

    The reverse. The Header has the figures the wrong way round.

    Such a result would actually give the Conservatives a gain of one seat (Kensington).
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 21,890

    The Tories are doomed in London. DOOMED.

    So are Londoners, by the looks of it. I mean, I take it these are supposed to be sentient beings, right? And they want Corbyn as PM???
    The rest of us have to save the Londoners from themselves.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 6,217

    The Tories are doomed in London. DOOMED.

    So are Londoners, by the looks of it. I mean, I take it these are supposed to be sentient beings, right? And they want Corbyn as PM???
    No, they clearly don't want either.

    There's a similarity to the Hillary effect, which allowed in Trump, but of greater magnitude.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,424
    Sean_F said:

    The Tories are doomed in London. DOOMED.

    So are Londoners, by the looks of it. I mean, I take it these are supposed to be sentient beings, right? And they want Corbyn as PM???
    The rest of us have to save the Londoners from themselves.
    A crumb of comfort for the rest of the country is that it will be London that is most damaged by Corbyn, although that comfort won't last last long given that London pays most of the bills.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 21,890
    Surprisingly, this important poll finding has not been given much attention:-

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2018/02/16/four-ten-female-millennials-been-sent-dick-pic/
  • glwglw Posts: 4,316

    The Tories are doomed in London. DOOMED.

    So are Londoners, by the looks of it. I mean, I take it these are supposed to be sentient beings, right? And they want Corbyn as PM???
    It's the Trump phenomenon again. Another charlatan who has conned poorly educated voters into thinking he can solve their problems at the drop of a hat, when in reality he will make almost everything much worse.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 20,148

    The Tories are doomed in London. DOOMED.

    So are Londoners, by the looks of it. I mean, I take it these are supposed to be sentient beings, right? And they want Corbyn as PM???
    As the thread header shows, the London public correctly are unimpressed by both leaders on offer. What they definitely don't want is a Conservative party defined by Brexit.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 4,310

    The Tories are doomed in London. DOOMED.

    So are Londoners, by the looks of it. I mean, I take it these are supposed to be sentient beings, right? And they want Corbyn as PM???
    I believe they are the most highly educated region of the UK also.
  • Sean_F said:

    Surprisingly, this important poll finding has not been given much attention:-

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2018/02/16/four-ten-female-millennials-been-sent-dick-pic/

    Surprised it is that low....
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 2,986

    London voters want NOTA eh? Well, Tories will be happy to oblige, come the next general election. Labour? Not so much.....

    What makes you think May's successor would be more popular? Surely the reason that she remains in post is because the alternatives are even more crap.
  • I imagine Labour as personified by their Mayor rather than their front bench is what will help them in London.

    My impression is he's much higher rated then both May or Corbyn but no idea if polling shows that.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,424
    glw said:

    The Tories are doomed in London. DOOMED.

    So are Londoners, by the looks of it. I mean, I take it these are supposed to be sentient beings, right? And they want Corbyn as PM???
    It's the Trump phenomenon again. Another charlatan who has conned poorly educated voters into thinking he can solve their problems at the drop of a hat, when in reality he will make almost everything much worse.
    It's the fact that he's conned highly educated voters that is most worrying. They'll have a very unpleasant shock if, God forbid, he does ever make it into No 10.
  • glw said:

    The Tories are doomed in London. DOOMED.

    So are Londoners, by the looks of it. I mean, I take it these are supposed to be sentient beings, right? And they want Corbyn as PM???
    It's the Trump phenomenon again. Another charlatan who has conned poorly educated voters into thinking he can solve their problems at the drop of a hat, when in reality he will make almost everything much worse.
    It's the fact that he's conned highly educated voters that is most worrying. They'll have a very unpleasant shock if, God forbid, he does ever make it into No 10.
    Sadly Vote Leave has created an appetite for have your cake and eat it politics in this country.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 28,934
    edited February 21

    I imagine Labour as personified by their Mayor rather than their front bench is what will help them in London.

    My impression is he's much higher rated then both May or Corbyn but no idea if polling shows that.

    Khan is very lucky in that respect. He looks better because he isn't Corbyn or May and also Trump picking on him doesn't hurt either.

    The fact he has broken loads of promises already is being overlooked in all of this.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 20,148

    glw said:

    The Tories are doomed in London. DOOMED.

    So are Londoners, by the looks of it. I mean, I take it these are supposed to be sentient beings, right? And they want Corbyn as PM???
    It's the Trump phenomenon again. Another charlatan who has conned poorly educated voters into thinking he can solve their problems at the drop of a hat, when in reality he will make almost everything much worse.
    It's the fact that he's conned highly educated voters that is most worrying. They'll have a very unpleasant shock if, God forbid, he does ever make it into No 10.
    If you and your fellow Conservatives want to start making inroads with these highly educated voters, I suggest that you collectively sharpen up your offering to them. Like, for starters, making sure that none of you call them traitors, saboteurs, citizens of nowhere and such like.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,424

    The Tories are doomed in London. DOOMED.

    So are Londoners, by the looks of it. I mean, I take it these are supposed to be sentient beings, right? And they want Corbyn as PM???
    As the thread header shows, the London public correctly are unimpressed by both leaders on offer. What they definitely don't want is a Conservative party defined by Brexit.
    But they seem to want a Labour government with the same policy on Brexit.

    No, me neither.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 17,964
    The desperation to shut this story down should have noses twitching.

    Guido already dripping out some supplementary material.

    I make that a week and the story still running...
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 20,148

    The Tories are doomed in London. DOOMED.

    So are Londoners, by the looks of it. I mean, I take it these are supposed to be sentient beings, right? And they want Corbyn as PM???
    As the thread header shows, the London public correctly are unimpressed by both leaders on offer. What they definitely don't want is a Conservative party defined by Brexit.
    But they seem to want a Labour government with the same policy on Brexit.

    No, me neither.
    They want a Labour government that they believe is potentially more amenable to a rethink on Brexit than the Conservatives and either way doesn't treat them like fifth columnists.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 28,934
    edited February 21
    TGOHF said:

    The desperation to shut this story down should have noses twitching.

    Guido already dripping out some supplementary material.

    I make that a week and the story still running...
    Perhaps...I think the danger is over egging things.

    The chances of Agent COB being a spy is bugger all, but that is now how it is being spun as denial of a claim that is highly unlikely to be true. It is highly doubtful he is was another John Stonehouse, too thick, too insignificant at the time, etc etc etc.

    It is much more likely (as the Guido bit suggests) he and his fellow travellers are again useful idiots.

    What is being missed is the fact that Jezza sympathies again are shown likely to have been with those that have been enemies of this country and deeply unpleasant organizations.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,424
    edited February 21

    glw said:

    The Tories are doomed in London. DOOMED.

    So are Londoners, by the looks of it. I mean, I take it these are supposed to be sentient beings, right? And they want Corbyn as PM???
    It's the Trump phenomenon again. Another charlatan who has conned poorly educated voters into thinking he can solve their problems at the drop of a hat, when in reality he will make almost everything much worse.
    It's the fact that he's conned highly educated voters that is most worrying. They'll have a very unpleasant shock if, God forbid, he does ever make it into No 10.
    If you and your fellow Conservatives want to start making inroads with these highly educated voters, I suggest that you collectively sharpen up your offering to them. Like, for starters, making sure that none of you call them traitors, saboteurs, citizens of nowhere and such like.
    'Citizens of nowhere' referred to people who don't pay their taxes. For 'Traitors' and 'Saboteurs', I refer you to Gordon Brown's mate Paul Dacre, who can no doubt speak for himself, but isn't a fellow Conservative as far as I know
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 21,890

    Sean_F said:

    Surprisingly, this important poll finding has not been given much attention:-

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2018/02/16/four-ten-female-millennials-been-sent-dick-pic/

    Surprised it is that low....
    That's the number prepared to admit it.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 37,244

    'Citizens of nowhere' referred to people who don't pay their taxes.

    Bollocks
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 21,890

    glw said:

    The Tories are doomed in London. DOOMED.

    So are Londoners, by the looks of it. I mean, I take it these are supposed to be sentient beings, right? And they want Corbyn as PM???
    It's the Trump phenomenon again. Another charlatan who has conned poorly educated voters into thinking he can solve their problems at the drop of a hat, when in reality he will make almost everything much worse.
    It's the fact that he's conned highly educated voters that is most worrying. They'll have a very unpleasant shock if, God forbid, he does ever make it into No 10.
    He's not conned them. Boroughs like Haringey, Islington, Camden, Lambeth Hackney, are full of well-educated, very left wing voters. Corbyn is their ideal candidate (apart from Brexit).
  • glwglw Posts: 4,316

    Sadly Vote Leave has created an appetite for have your cake and eat it politics in this country.

    It goes back a lot further than that. One thing that has changed is that the media feeds such viewpoints far more than it used to. Almost all news stories are spun to a degree. Rarely is anything as significant (positive or negative) when you dig into the facts.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 17,964
    Sean_F said:

    glw said:

    The Tories are doomed in London. DOOMED.

    So are Londoners, by the looks of it. I mean, I take it these are supposed to be sentient beings, right? And they want Corbyn as PM???
    It's the Trump phenomenon again. Another charlatan who has conned poorly educated voters into thinking he can solve their problems at the drop of a hat, when in reality he will make almost everything much worse.
    It's the fact that he's conned highly educated voters that is most worrying. They'll have a very unpleasant shock if, God forbid, he does ever make it into No 10.
    He's not conned them. Boroughs like Haringey, Islington, Camden, Lambeth Hackney, are full of well-educated, very left wing voters. Corbyn is their ideal candidate (apart from Brexit).
    Appears they are happy to pay more taxes to the government to keep the working classes at bay and away from their enclaves.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,424
    Scott_P said:

    'Citizens of nowhere' referred to people who don't pay their taxes.

    Bollocks
    Now don’t get me wrong. We applaud success. We want people to get on.

    But we also value something else: the spirit of citizenship.

    That spirit that means you respect the bonds and obligations that make our society work. That means a commitment to the men and women who live around you, who work for you, who buy the goods and services you sell.

    That spirit that means recognising the social contract that says you train up local young people before you take on cheap labour from overseas.

    That spirit that means you do as others do, and pay your fair share of tax.

    But today, too many people in positions of power behave as though they have more in common with international elites than with the people down the road, the people they employ, the people they pass in the street.

    But if you believe you’re a citizen of the world, you’re a citizen of nowhere. You don’t understand what the very word ‘citizenship’ means.

    So if you’re a boss who earns a fortune but doesn’t look after your staff…

    An international company that treats tax laws as an optional extra…

    A household name that refuses to work with the authorities even to fight terrorism…

    A director who takes out massive dividends while knowing that the company pension is about to go bust…

    I’m putting you on warning. This can’t go on anymore.


    Perhaps you can point me to the bit about Remainers in that? 'Cos I've looked very hard, and I'm damned if I can find it.
  • It is not just London that Jezza's shtick is working. Look at the likes of Bristol, in areas of well to do highly educated folk, they appear to love the sound of reheated 70s socialism.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 20,148

    glw said:

    The Tories are doomed in London. DOOMED.

    So are Londoners, by the looks of it. I mean, I take it these are supposed to be sentient beings, right? And they want Corbyn as PM???
    It's the Trump phenomenon again. Another charlatan who has conned poorly educated voters into thinking he can solve their problems at the drop of a hat, when in reality he will make almost everything much worse.
    It's the fact that he's conned highly educated voters that is most worrying. They'll have a very unpleasant shock if, God forbid, he does ever make it into No 10.
    If you and your fellow Conservatives want to start making inroads with these highly educated voters, I suggest that you collectively sharpen up your offering to them. Like, for starters, making sure that none of you call them traitors, saboteurs, citizens of nowhere and such like.
    'Citizens of nowhere' referred to people who don't pay their taxes. For 'Traitors' and 'Saboteurs', I refer you to Gordon Brown's mate Paul Dacre, who can no doubt speak for himself, but isn't a fellow Conservative as far as I know
    "Citizens of nowhere" was chosen precisely to define Theresa May against London and for the provinces. To be fair, it worked. But Conservatives can't complain when Londoners realise that they are the anti-London party and cast their votes accordingly.

    The Conservatives have done nothing to restrain their tabloid paramilitary wing. The public can see that too, to the Conservatives' benefit in the provinces and to their detriment in London.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 43,720
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Any polls for Leeds, Manchester, Birmingham, Edinburgh?
  • glwglw Posts: 4,316

    Khan is very lucky in that respect. He looks better because he isn't Corbyn or May and also Trump picking on him doesn't hurt either.

    The fact he has broken loads of promises already is being overlooked in all of this.

    Correct. I'm no fan of him, but being not Ken is a huge asset for him as a Labour Mayor.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,424
    Sean_F said:

    glw said:

    The Tories are doomed in London. DOOMED.

    So are Londoners, by the looks of it. I mean, I take it these are supposed to be sentient beings, right? And they want Corbyn as PM???
    It's the Trump phenomenon again. Another charlatan who has conned poorly educated voters into thinking he can solve their problems at the drop of a hat, when in reality he will make almost everything much worse.
    It's the fact that he's conned highly educated voters that is most worrying. They'll have a very unpleasant shock if, God forbid, he does ever make it into No 10.
    He's not conned them. Boroughs like Haringey, Islington, Camden, Lambeth Hackney, are full of well-educated, very left wing voters. Corbyn is their ideal candidate (apart from Brexit).
    He's certainly conned some of them, such as a very bright young relative of mine, who is just starting as a lawyer with a top firm, and isn't left wing, but who fell for the Momentum videos and general peer pressure.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 9,940
    Change is Coming
  • glwglw Posts: 4,316

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Any polls for Leeds, Manchester, Birmingham, Edinburgh?

    Those don't count MD. Only London's views matter. ;)
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 17,964

    Change is Coming

    I doubt swing voters will respond well to such threats.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 21,890
    TGOHF said:

    Sean_F said:

    glw said:

    The Tories are doomed in London. DOOMED.

    So are Londoners, by the looks of it. I mean, I take it these are supposed to be sentient beings, right? And they want Corbyn as PM???
    It's the Trump phenomenon again. Another charlatan who has conned poorly educated voters into thinking he can solve their problems at the drop of a hat, when in reality he will make almost everything much worse.
    It's the fact that he's conned highly educated voters that is most worrying. They'll have a very unpleasant shock if, God forbid, he does ever make it into No 10.
    He's not conned them. Boroughs like Haringey, Islington, Camden, Lambeth Hackney, are full of well-educated, very left wing voters. Corbyn is their ideal candidate (apart from Brexit).
    Appears they are happy to pay more taxes to the government to keep the working classes at bay and away from their enclaves.
    They're like my teacher who had a beautiful flat in Frognal and would have earnest discussions with his friends about the need for violent social revolution.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,424

    "Citizens of nowhere" was chosen precisely to define Theresa May against London and for the provinces. To be fair, it worked. But Conservatives can't complain when Londoners realise that they are the anti-London party and cast their votes accordingly.

    The Conservatives have done nothing to restrain their tabloid paramilitary wing. The public can see that too, to the Conservatives' benefit in the provinces and to their detriment in London.

    I don't see any reference to Londoners either, unless you think Londoners don't pay their taxes, don't cooperate on terrorism, and pay themselves massive dividends when their company is about to go bust.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 17,964
    Why does "citizens of nowhere" rankle Remainers so much ?

    It wasn't aimed at them - is that the problem - they want attention ?

    Or do they feel it was aimed at their patriotism ? If they were confident in that it would be water off a duck's back surely ?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 43,720
    Mr. glw, *tugs forelock*, right y'are, sir. I'll go back to mucking out the pigs.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 20,148

    "Citizens of nowhere" was chosen precisely to define Theresa May against London and for the provinces. To be fair, it worked. But Conservatives can't complain when Londoners realise that they are the anti-London party and cast their votes accordingly.

    The Conservatives have done nothing to restrain their tabloid paramilitary wing. The public can see that too, to the Conservatives' benefit in the provinces and to their detriment in London.

    I don't see any reference to Londoners either, unless you think Londoners don't pay their taxes, don't cooperate on terrorism, and pay themselves massive dividends when their company is about to go bust.
    I see an awful lot of Londoners who think of themselves as citizens of the world. Theresa May was not expecting her speech to be read. She was expecting - and got - a ten second snippet on the TV bulletins, which Londoners correctly interpreted as a declaration of war on them.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 37,244

    SNIP

    Yeah, I read the speech, and it's bollocks.

    The "citizen" line is not logically related to any of the text around it.

    The implication seems to be if you pay taxes, you can't regard yourself as a citizen of the World.

    Incoherent bollocks.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 45,077

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Any polls for Leeds, Manchester, Birmingham, Edinburgh?

    Labour, Labour, Labour, Tory (Just)
  • Good afternoon, everyone.

    Any polls for Leeds, Manchester, Birmingham, Edinburgh?

    Well if someone wants to pay for them YouGov will poll them.

    As an aside why would you want to poll Edinburgh when there's no election this year?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 9,940
    With the NHS in desperate need of money.

    Tory budget gives banks a £4.7 bn tax cut by scrapping banks levy

    Change is coming

    Says Agent Jezza

    Under a Labour Government the Banks will work for us the many not the other way round.

    Change is coming
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,424
    TGOHF said:

    Why does "citizens of nowhere" rankle Remainers so much ?

    It wasn't aimed at them - is that the problem - they want attention ?

    Or do they feel it was aimed at their patriotism ? If they were confident in that it would be water off a duck's back surely ?

    Oh, it's the same thing as the entirely synthetic outrage about 'there's no such thing as society', where a phrase has been plucked out of context, twisted into something completely different from what was being said, and repeated so often that the twisted version becomes the truth.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 45,077
    edited February 21

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Any polls for Leeds, Manchester, Birmingham, Edinburgh?

    Well if someone wants to pay for them YouGov will poll them.

    As an aside why would you want to poll Edinburgh when there's no election this year?
    It's the only city of the four the Tories could win :) ?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 37,244
    TGOHF said:

    Why does "citizens of nowhere" rankle Remainers so much ?

    It wasn't aimed at them

    It clearly was though.

    Not so much a dog-whistle, as a megaphone
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 6,380
    "Billy Graham: Influential US evangelist dies at 99"


  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,424

    "Citizens of nowhere" was chosen precisely to define Theresa May against London and for the provinces. To be fair, it worked. But Conservatives can't complain when Londoners realise that they are the anti-London party and cast their votes accordingly.

    The Conservatives have done nothing to restrain their tabloid paramilitary wing. The public can see that too, to the Conservatives' benefit in the provinces and to their detriment in London.

    I don't see any reference to Londoners either, unless you think Londoners don't pay their taxes, don't cooperate on terrorism, and pay themselves massive dividends when their company is about to go bust.
    I see an awful lot of Londoners who think of themselves as citizens of the world. Theresa May was not expecting her speech to be read. She was expecting - and got - a ten second snippet on the TV bulletins, which Londoners correctly interpreted as a declaration of war on them.
    They incorrectly interpreted it. Theresa May is (unfortunately) not that media-savvy.
  • stevefstevef Posts: 1,044
    London is not representative of the UK as a whole. It has a higher proportion of EU immigrants, it has much higher levels of poverty than other parts of the UK, and the housing problem is much more acute in London. Not fertile ground for the current Tory party. No surprise that Theresa May is doing badly. even Ed Miliband did well in London in 2015. If Ed Miliband had done as well outside London as he had done in London in 2015, he would have comfortably been installed as prime minister right now.

    What is extraordinary is that Corbyn is not racing into the stratosphere against May. That he is only a few points ahead of May even in London.

    Corbyn is behind None of the Above in London, a city tailor made for Labour to thrive. His party is doing better than him.

    Yet more proof what a liability this ranting old Marxist is, and yet another omen that he is leading Labour to defeat in 2022.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 10,601

    I imagine Labour as personified by their Mayor rather than their front bench is what will help them in London.

    My impression is he's much higher rated then both May or Corbyn but no idea if polling shows that.

    Yes. Full results are here, and he's got a 58-23 positive rating:

    http://www.qmul.ac.uk/media/news/2018/hss/conservatives-heading-for-defeat-in-at-least-three-flagship-london-boroughs-in-forthcoming-local-elections-.html

    Sean F is right that wealthy Inner London Labour voters know what they're doing - they're among the most political and well-informed groups in the country. They're simply, by and large, very left wing, to the point that Corbyn is probably slightly to the right of average.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 13,676

    glw said:

    The Tories are doomed in London. DOOMED.

    So are Londoners, by the looks of it. I mean, I take it these are supposed to be sentient beings, right? And they want Corbyn as PM???
    It's the Trump phenomenon again. Another charlatan who has conned poorly educated voters into thinking he can solve their problems at the drop of a hat, when in reality he will make almost everything much worse.
    It's the fact that he's conned highly educated voters that is most worrying. They'll have a very unpleasant shock if, God forbid, he does ever make it into No 10.
    Never underestimate the degree to which champagne socialists in their stonking great houses around London will feel much better about themselves by voting for Jezza.
  • glwglw Posts: 4,316

    Change is coming

    Yep, when Corbyn gets in the only thing that we will have in our pockets is change.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 43,720
    Mr. Pulpstar, I'd guess Leeds is at least somewhat mixed. Not had a look (I'd guess MPs favour Labour, but then, so does York due to 'helpful' constituency boundaries, but vote numbers fairly evenly split).

    Mr. Eagles, is the bikini-banning numpty up for re-election this year?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,424
    Scott_P said:

    SNIP

    Yeah, I read the speech, and it's bollocks.

    The "citizen" line is not logically related to any of the text around it.

    The implication seems to be if you pay taxes, you can't regard yourself as a citizen of the World.

    Incoherent bollocks.
    Oh yes, it's incoherent bollocks, I agree with that. But it's not an attack on Remainers by any stretch of the imagination, and requires quite a major stretch of the imagination to be interpreted as an attack on Londoners, and then only on the most highly-paid Londoners.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 45,077
    stevef said:


    Corbyn is behind None of the Above in London, a city tailor made for Labour to thrive. His party is doing better than him.
    Yet more proof what a liability this ranting old Marxist is, and yet another omen that he is leading Labour to defeat in 2022.

    It is a fair point, Corbyn should be doing MUCH better on the 'best PM' question here.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 17,964
    Scott_P said:

    TGOHF said:

    Why does "citizens of nowhere" rankle Remainers so much ?

    It wasn't aimed at them

    It clearly was though.

    Not so much a dog-whistle, as a megaphone
    I think that points to my first point and ties in with the earlier thread header today. Continuity Remainers want some attention - whether it is the olive branch or the stick - and they want to make every speech or policy all about them.

    Perhaps buy a dog ?


  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 19,910
    edited February 21

    Scott_P said:

    SNIP

    Yeah, I read the speech, and it's bollocks.

    The "citizen" line is not logically related to any of the text around it.

    The implication seems to be if you pay taxes, you can't regard yourself as a citizen of the World.

    Incoherent bollocks.
    Oh yes, it's incoherent bollocks, I agree with that. But it's not an attack on Remainers by any stretch of the imagination, and requires quite a major stretch of the imagination to be interpreted as an attack on Londoners, and then only on the most highly-paid Londoners.
    No, it just requires the ability to place the phrase in the context of the speech. What is this passage supposed to imply about Remainers:

    For the referendum was not just a vote to withdraw from the EU. It was about something broader – something that the European Union had come to represent.

    It was about a sense – deep, profound and let’s face it often justified – that many people have today that the world works well for a privileged few, but not for them.

    It was a vote not just to change Britain’s relationship with the European Union, but to call for a change in the way our country works – and the people for whom it works – forever.
  • Mr. Pulpstar, I'd guess Leeds is at least somewhat mixed. Not had a look (I'd guess MPs favour Labour, but then, so does York due to 'helpful' constituency boundaries, but vote numbers fairly evenly split).

    Mr. Eagles, is the bikini-banning numpty up for re-election this year?

    You do know that Sadiq Khan has banned fewer things advertising on TfL than Boris Johnson.

    But no, he's not up for re election this year.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 45,077

    Mr. Pulpstar, I'd guess Leeds is at least somewhat mixed. Not had a look (I'd guess MPs favour Labour, but then, so does York due to 'helpful' constituency boundaries, but vote numbers fairly evenly split).

    Mr. Eagles, is the bikini-banning numpty up for re-election this year?

    West Yorkshire is more mixed, but Labour are 78,900 total votes ahead in the 5 constituencies with Leeds in the name.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 2,837
    Polling is getting far too complex to unravel and understand.

    There must be adjustments for shy Labour, those who cannot in public countenance showing support for Corbyn or the anti sematic undertones that the party refuses to expunge.

    There must be adjustments for a new breed of shy Tory. Those who cannot allow others to know that they support the party depicted as a fascist selfish capitalist refuge for the citizens of nowhere.

    Then there is the adjustment for 'I was a UKIP supporter'. The maverick who will tell the pollsters anything to mislead and confuse.

    Then there is the adjustment to the adjustment of the young voter who initially did but then didn't have a higher turnout.

    Add in the adjustment for the OAPs, who we are frequently told are dying off.

    I'm not sure what the point of polling is, other than a statistical exercise of applying adjustments.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,594
    Scott_P said:

    'Citizens of nowhere' referred to people who don't pay their taxes.

    Bollocks
    The PM was referring to the Philip Greens and the Richard Bransons, the Googles and the Facebooks who make huge amounts of money from the UK yet manage to pay very little in taxes.

    And she was completely right.
  • glwglw Posts: 4,316
    TGOHF said:

    I think that points to my first point and ties in with the earlier thread header today. Continuity Remainers want some attention - whether it is the olive branch or the stick - and they want to make every speech or policy all about them.

    Perhaps buy a dog ?

    It's also part of the political culture today to find absolutely everything your opponents say offensive. Not that it necessarily offends you personally but you are offended on the behalf of others who don't have your especially refined skills for detecting offensive meaning in anything from a political speech to a joke on Twitter.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 37,244
    TGOHF said:

    Continuity Remainers want some attention - whether it is the olive branch or the stick - and they want to make every speech or policy all about them.

    ROFLMAO

    That must be why JRM has upped his media profile, the ERG are all over the press, and Nigel fucking Farage is on Question Time. Again.

    Continuity Remainers all...
  • Pulpstar said:

    stevef said:


    Corbyn is behind None of the Above in London, a city tailor made for Labour to thrive. His party is doing better than him.
    Yet more proof what a liability this ranting old Marxist is, and yet another omen that he is leading Labour to defeat in 2022.

    It is a fair point, Corbyn should be doing MUCH better on the 'best PM' question here.
    Nah, the question also asked Vince Cable in this question.

    I reckon in the forced two question most of that 9% goes to Corbyn.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,424
    edited February 21

    Scott_P said:

    SNIP

    Yeah, I read the speech, and it's bollocks.

    The "citizen" line is not logically related to any of the text around it.

    The implication seems to be if you pay taxes, you can't regard yourself as a citizen of the World.

    Incoherent bollocks.
    Oh yes, it's incoherent bollocks, I agree with that. But it's not an attack on Remainers by any stretch of the imagination, and requires quite a major stretch of the imagination to be interpreted as an attack on Londoners, and then only on the most highly-paid Londoners.
    No, it just requires the ability to place the phrase in the context of the speech. What is this passage supposed to imply about Remainers:

    For the referendum was not just a vote to withdraw from the EU. It was about something broader – something that the European Union had come to represent.

    It was about a sense – deep, profound and let’s face it often justified – that many people have today that the world works well for a privileged few, but not for them.

    It was a vote not just to change Britain’s relationship with the European Union, but to call for a change in the way our country works – and the people for whom it works – forever.
    It is supposed to imply what it says, that people who voted Remain don't so much have a view that the world, and especially the EU, work only for the privileged few, in the way that she thinks Leavers do. Seems reasonable to me.

    There's much projection going on here. Theresa May is trying to make sense of the vote - which was a massive surprise, after all. That's fair enough, surely, even if you don't agree with her interpretation of it? Those criticising her, and blaming swivel-eyed Brexiteers, and complaining that the government is taking us out of the EU, might be better advised to emulate her attempt to understand things, rather than trashing her for trying, and misrepresenting what she said. Just a thought.
  • felixfelix Posts: 7,681

    "Citizens of nowhere" was chosen precisely to define Theresa May against London and for the provinces. To be fair, it worked. But Conservatives can't complain when Londoners realise that they are the anti-London party and cast their votes accordingly.

    The Conservatives have done nothing to restrain their tabloid paramilitary wing. The public can see that too, to the Conservatives' benefit in the provinces and to their detriment in London.

    I don't see any reference to Londoners either, unless you think Londoners don't pay their taxes, don't cooperate on terrorism, and pay themselves massive dividends when their company is about to go bust.
    I see an awful lot of Londoners who think of themselves as citizens of the world. Theresa May was not expecting her speech to be read. She was expecting - and got - a ten second snippet on the TV bulletins, which Londoners correctly interpreted as a declaration of war on them.
    Golly - you really need to get out more - even as far as Bexley would help...
  • From this poll

    And do you think your local council is currently doing a good or bad job?

    Good 47%

    Bad 29%
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 21,890
    stevef said:

    London is not representative of the UK as a whole. It has a higher proportion of EU immigrants, it has much higher levels of poverty than other parts of the UK, and the housing problem is much more acute in London. Not fertile ground for the current Tory party. No surprise that Theresa May is doing badly. even Ed Miliband did well in London in 2015. If Ed Miliband had done as well outside London as he had done in London in 2015, he would have comfortably been installed as prime minister right now.

    What is extraordinary is that Corbyn is not racing into the stratosphere against May. That he is only a few points ahead of May even in London.

    Corbyn is behind None of the Above in London, a city tailor made for Labour to thrive. His party is doing better than him.

    Yet more proof what a liability this ranting old Marxist is, and yet another omen that he is leading Labour to defeat in 2022.

    London is huge. Inner London is very different politically to Outer London. Inner London voted 72% in favour of Remain, Outer London 55%. Inner London returned 26 Labour MPs to 3 Conservatives. Outer London went 23 Labour, 18 Conservative, 3 Lib Dem.

    Even now, there are still some boroughs that are very Conservative.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 37,244
    Sandpit said:

    The PM was referring to the Philip Greens and the Richard Bransons, the Googles and the Facebooks who make huge amounts of money from the UK yet manage to pay very little in taxes.

    She wasn't though.

    Read the speech. The line has no connection to any of the text around it.

    It could have been preceded with "Bananas will no longer be straight" and followed by "British passports will be blue" and it would have made as much sense. In fact that would have got a bigger cheer
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 9,940
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 43% (+3)
    CON: 42% (+1)
    LDEM: 7% (-1)
    UKIP: 3% (-1)
    GRN: 2% (-1)

    via @ICMResearch

    Commie Spy bounce
  • Sandpit said:

    Scott_P said:

    'Citizens of nowhere' referred to people who don't pay their taxes.

    Bollocks
    The PM was referring to the Philip Greens and the Richard Bransons, the Googles and the Facebooks who make huge amounts of money from the UK yet manage to pay very little in taxes.

    And she was completely right.
    But it was this bit just before it that irked many

    if you believe you’re a citizen of the world, you’re a citizen of nowhere. You don’t understand what the very word ‘citizenship’ means.

    For those of us who are very proud of our Britishness but have a very internationalist outlook it jarred very badly.

    The fact I said at the time it had echoes of 'rootless cosmopolitans' was not an auspicious saying.
  • Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 43% (+3)
    CON: 42% (+1)
    LDEM: 7% (-1)
    UKIP: 3% (-1)
    GRN: 2% (-1)

    via @ICMResearch

    Commie Spy bounce

    Or Half term bounce....
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 45,077

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 43% (+3)
    CON: 42% (+1)
    LDEM: 7% (-1)
    UKIP: 3% (-1)
    GRN: 2% (-1)

    via @ICMResearch

    Commie Spy bounce

    Currently looking like a great night for Nicola Sturgeon even if she loses seats.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,594
    edited February 21
    FPT: re: Parliamentary privilege.

    No, an MP making a post on Twitter or any other website when physically within Parliament doesn’t count.

    Privilege only covers comments made during official proceedings either in the chamber or during committees.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 20,148
    The Conservative response to this poll so far seems to be:

    https://imgur.com/F3qJwXq
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 17,964
    Scott_P said:

    Sandpit said:

    The PM was referring to the Philip Greens and the Richard Bransons, the Googles and the Facebooks who make huge amounts of money from the UK yet manage to pay very little in taxes.

    She wasn't though.

    Read the speech. The line has no connection to any of the text around it.

    It could have been preceded with "Bananas will no longer be straight" and followed by "British passports will be blue" and it would have made as much sense. In fact that would have got a bigger cheer
    lets face it - she could have announced a new bypass for Royston Vasey and the remainers would have taken offence at it for an unfounded attack on their patriotism.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 43,720
    Mr. Eagles, if it makes you feel better, I've also said (and still believe) that Boris Johnson isn't fit to be Foreign Secretary.

    London Mayors in recent times have not impressed.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 4,310
    TGOHF said:

    Why does "citizens of nowhere" rankle Remainers so much ?

    It wasn't aimed at them - is that the problem - they want attention ?

    Or do they feel it was aimed at their patriotism ? If they were confident in that it would be water off a duck's back surely ?

    My Facebook feed is probably 90-95% Remain. Lots of people post political stuff complaining about the Tories, sharing momentum videos or viral memes about the latest perceived outrageous thing the govt has done.

    I have never once heard or seen anyone refer to citizens of nowhere as a phrase. The only place I’ve seen it mentioned is on here. If I google it - half of the first page references are to something else (a film about Dominicans, a report by unhcr on refugees etc).

    I just don’t think it’s as famous a remark as some think.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 37,244
    TGOHF said:

    lets face it - she could have announced a new bypass for Royston Vasey and the remainers would have taken offence at it for an unfounded attack on their patriotism.

    If she had put that line in an announcement of a new bypass for Royston Vasey, it would have been just as out of place, and those offended would have been right.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 6,865
    edited February 21
    TGOHF said:

    Why does "citizens of nowhere" rankle Remainers so much ?

    It wasn't aimed at them - is that the problem - they want attention ?

    Or do they feel it was aimed at their patriotism ? If they were confident in that it would be water off a duck's back surely ?

    It was a clumsy attempt to link Brexit to a lack of civic responsibility that Theresa May thought needed tackling, which she then compounded by setting up a false dichotomy between being outward looking and having regard for your community. If she had wanted to, she could have easily clarified her remarks afterwards to make clear you didn't need to have voted Remain to be a citizen of nowhere. I guess she like the ring of "But if you believe you’re a citizen of the world, you’re a citizen of nowhere. " It was a mistake.

    As an aside, Mrs May has rowed back very considerably on her contempt for the EU since that speech.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,424
    edited February 21
    The pensioners one is rather remarkable, is it not? Is the dementia tax bullet still ricocheting around? Or triple lock?

    @Pong tells us the Tories feather-bed pensioners at the expense of the young. It seems to be that the young want to vote Labour to protect us rich oldies.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 3,938
    Afternoon all :)

    THE FIGURES IN THE TITLE OF THE THREAD ARE INCORRECT !!

    http://www.qmul.ac.uk/media/news/2018/hss/conservatives-heading-for-defeat-in-at-least-three-flagship-london-boroughs-in-forthcoming-local-elections-.html

    The data tables are here:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/r3f9udshnu97w0y/QueenMary_LondonResults_Feb18_VI.pdf?dl=0

    The figures for the GE and local elections need to be transposed.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 897
    Sandpit said:

    FPT: re: Parliamentary privilege.

    No, an MP making a post on Twitter or any other website when physically within Parliament doesn’t count.

    Privilege only covers comments made during official proceedings either in the chamber or during committees.

    Does the Speaker have an official Twitter account? If he does, what if they tweet to that from within the chamber?
  • The pensioners one is rather remarkable, is it not? Is the dementia tax bullet still ricocheting around?
    Yes, and I also think it is a by product of Labour's lead on the NHS, what with the oldies using the NHS a lot.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 45,077
    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    THE FIGURES IN THE TITLE OF THE THREAD ARE INCORRECT !!

    http://www.qmul.ac.uk/media/news/2018/hss/conservatives-heading-for-defeat-in-at-least-three-flagship-london-boroughs-in-forthcoming-local-elections-.html

    The data tables are here:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/r3f9udshnu97w0y/QueenMary_LondonResults_Feb18_VI.pdf?dl=0

    The figures for the GE and local elections need to be transposed.

    Worse for the Tories. A GE probably isn;'t till 2022. The locals are in May.
This discussion has been closed.