ICM have the Lib Dems down to 7%? I mean, between a government that is paralysed by Brexit and an opposition that is nothing short of ridiculous what on earth is it going to take? It's almost as if opposing withdrawal from the EU isn't a vote winner after all.
If we believed that the hot air about Brexit from the media and politicians represented how people feel, then I would expect both the Lib Dems and UKIP to be doing better than they are. I suspect that most of the public are in the "just get on with it" camp.
Most of the public are in the "just get on with it" camp, and certainly the bulk of Leavers are. They are doomed to disappointment. The intractable mess will go on and on.
There will be a fudge of sorts and the public will move on. As far as the lib dems poor showing is concerned the remainers may be putting more store in the fact that most labour mps are pro EU and no doubt hope that there is more of a chance that labour can have an effect on the outcome than a band of 12 lib dems.
Where we are in 12 months time will be very interesting
Possible. The fudge is BINO, Brexit that is damage limited to the greatest extent possible. We don't have consensus on that, which is a problem.
I don't see how BINO can happen without a critical mass of Leavers saying that we'd be better off staying. Once that position gathers momentum it will be hard to stop.
See the response from Big G. It goes like this: We have Brexited. We did what people voted for. Single Market? Customs Union? Vassal State? Who cares?
ICM have the Lib Dems down to 7%? I mean, between a government that is paralysed by Brexit and an opposition that is nothing short of ridiculous what on earth is it going to take? It's almost as if opposing withdrawal from the EU isn't a vote winner after all.
If we believed that the hot air about Brexit from the media and politicians represented how people feel, then I would expect both the Lib Dems and UKIP to be doing better than they are. I suspect that most of the public are in the "just get on with it" camp.
Most of the public are in the "just get on with it" camp, and certainly the bulk of Leavers are. They are doomed to disappointment. The intractable mess will go on and on.
There will be a fudge of sorts and the public will move on. As far as the lib dems poor showing is concerned the remainers may be putting more store in the fact that most labour mps are pro EU and no doubt hope that there is more of a chance that labour can have an effect on the outcome than a band of 12 lib dems.
Where we are in 12 months time will be very interesting
Possible. The fudge is BINO, Brexit that is damage limited to the greatest extent possible. We don't have consensus on that, which is a problem.
I don't see how BINO can happen without a critical mass of Leavers saying that we'd be better off staying. Once that position gathers momentum it will be hard to stop.
See the response from Big G. It goes like this: We have Brexited. We did what people voted for. Single Market? Customs Union? Vassal State? Who cares?
Except people care about the implications of staying in those institutions.
Camilla did not complain, her spokesperson said she enjoyed it, it was Craig Revell-Horwood who was not impressed as Brendan Cole was told it would breach protocol if he asked her to dance
Protocols eh? Next you’ll be supporting the divine rights of kings.
Mr. 43, that kind of contempt for democracy is a recipe for turning the current poisonous atmosphere into trench warfare, whilst teaching the electorate that voting only counts if the Establishment agrees with the result.
ICM have the Lib Dems down to 7%? I mean, between a government that is paralysed by Brexit and an opposition that is nothing short of ridiculous what on earth is it going to take? It's almost as if opposing withdrawal from the EU isn't a vote winner after all.
If we believed that the hot air about Brexit from the media and politicians represented how people feel, then I would expect both the Lib Dems and UKIP to be doing better than they are. I suspect that most of the public are in the "just get on with it" camp.
Most of the public are in the "just get on with it" camp, and certainly the bulk of Leavers are. They are doomed to disappointment. The intractable mess will go on and on.
There will be a fudge of sorts and the public will move on. As far as the lib dems poor showing is concerned the remainers may be putting more store in the fact that most labour mps are pro EU and no doubt hope that there is more of a chance that labour can have an effect on the outcome than a band of 12 lib dems.
Where we are in 12 months time will be very interesting
Possible. The fudge is BINO, Brexit that is damage limited to the greatest extent possible. We don't have consensus on that, which is a problem.
I don't see how BINO can happen without a critical mass of Leavers saying that we'd be better off staying. Once that position gathers momentum it will be hard to stop.
See the response from Big G. It goes like this: We have Brexited. We did what people voted for. Single Market? Customs Union? Vassal State? Who cares?
Except people care about the implications of staying in those institutions.
Ultimately, I am not sure they do. I think it quite likely that in ten years time people will still think it right to leave the EU and at the same time not have any idea of what was achieved by it.
Camilla did not complain, her spokesperson said she enjoyed it, it was Craig Revell-Horwood who was not impressed as Brendan Cole was told it would breach protocol if he asked her to dance
Wasn't it a breach of protocol for Charles to be banging Camilla while he was married to Diana?
An adulterer and fornicator as Supreme Governor of the Church of England.
Camilla did not complain, her spokesperson said she enjoyed it, it was Craig Revell-Horwood who was not impressed as Brendan Cole was told it would breach protocol if he asked her to dance
Wasn't it a breach of protocol for Charles to be banging Camilla while he was married to Diana?
An adulterer and fornicator as Supreme Governor of the Church of England.
Camilla did not complain, her spokesperson said she enjoyed it, it was Craig Revell-Horwood who was not impressed as Brendan Cole was told it would breach protocol if he asked her to dance
Wasn't it a breach of protocol for Charles to be banging Camilla while he was married to Diana?
An adulterer and fornicator as Supreme Governor of the Church of England.
There is little publicity that isn't good publicity. Something for the Sun et al to reflect upon. Corbyn's been out of the news for a while: a reminder that he can deal with pressure calmly doesn't do any harm.
Arguably the greatest action movie ever made, and now the greatest Christmas movie ever made, too. Bruce Willis’ John McClane may seem like an unlikely Santa Claus – he doesn’t have enough hair for one – but what better Christmas present is there than the gift of terrorists getting taken down as they try to take Nakatomi Plaza hostage during a Christmas party in order to carry out an elaborate theft? Not for Empire readers the cutesy Christmas trees of other Christmas movies, or the sight of people in ill-advised knitwear drinking eggnog. For you guys, nothing says deck the halls like jumping off a roof tied to a fire hose, and nothing says season of goodwill like a machine gun. Ho ho ho.
ICM have the Lib Dems down to 7%? I mean, between a government that is paralysed by Brexit and an opposition that is nothing short of ridiculous what on earth is it going to take? It's almost as if opposing withdrawal from the EU isn't a vote winner after all.
If we believed that the hot air about Brexit from the media and politicians represented how people feel, then I would expect both the Lib Dems and UKIP to be doing better than they are. I suspect that most of the public are in the "just get on with it" camp.
Most of the public are in the "just get on with it" camp, and certainly the bulk of Leavers are. They are doomed to disappointment. The intractable mess will go on and on.
There will be a fudge of sorts and the public will move on. As far as the lib dems poor showing is concerned the remainers may be putting more store in the fact that most labour mps are pro EU and no doubt hope that there is more of a chance that labour can have an effect on the outcome than a band of 12 lib dems.
Where we are in 12 months time will be very interesting
Possible. The fudge is BINO, Brexit that is damage limited to the greatest extent possible. We don't have consensus on that, which is a problem.
BINO is staying in the SM and CU. Can't see that happening.
Exactly.
We may well end up in the SM and CU. But people don't want it, so we are in a mess and those people who want to put the whole thing to sleep will be disappointed.
We clearly won’t, because that means we’re a totally passive rule taker and we’d have no control over migration from Europe.
There is no way that would be acceptable to the House of Commons or the Tory Party. It will not happen.
ICM have the Lib Dems down to 7%? I mean, between a government that is paralysed by Brexit and an opposition that is nothing short of ridiculous what on earth is it going to take? It's almost as if opposing withdrawal from the EU isn't a vote winner after all.
If we believed that the hot air about Brexit from the media and politicians represented how people feel, then I would expect both the Lib Dems and UKIP to be doing better than they are. I suspect that most of the public are in the "just get on with it" camp.
Most of the public are in the "just get on with it" camp, and certainly the bulk of Leavers are. They are doomed to disappointment. The intractable mess will go on and on.
There will be a fudge of sorts and the public will move on. As far as the lib dems poor showing is concerned the remainers may be putting more store in the fact that most labour mps are pro EU and no doubt hope that there is more of a chance that labour can have an effect on the outcome than a band of 12 lib dems.
Where we are in 12 months time will be very interesting
Possible. The fudge is BINO, Brexit that is damage limited to the greatest extent possible. We don't have consensus on that, which is a problem.
I don't see how BINO can happen without a critical mass of Leavers saying that we'd be better off staying. Once that position gathers momentum it will be hard to stop.
See the response from Big G. It goes like this: We have Brexited. We did what people voted for. Single Market? Customs Union? Vassal State? Who cares?
Big G was a Remain voter who swung behind the result. I think it's the view of the metropolitan Leavers in media and think tank land that will be more important.
ICM have the Lib Dems down to 7%? I mean, between a government that is paralysed by Brexit and an opposition that is nothing short of ridiculous what on earth is it going to take? It's almost as if opposing withdrawal from the EU isn't a vote winner after all.
If we believed that the hot air about Brexit from the media and politicians represented how people feel, then I would expect both the Lib Dems and UKIP to be doing better than they are. I suspect that most of the public are in the "just get on with it" camp.
Most of the public are in the "just get on with it" camp, and certainly the bulk of Leavers are. They are doomed to disappointment. The intractable mess will go on and on.
There will be a fudge of sorts and the public will move on. As far as the lib dems poor showing is concerned the remainers may be putting more store in the fact that most labour mps are pro EU and no doubt hope that there is more of a chance that labour can have an effect on the outcome than a band of 12 lib dems.
Where we are in 12 months time will be very interesting
Possible. The fudge is BINO, Brexit that is damage limited to the greatest extent possible. We don't have consensus on that, which is a problem.
I don't see how BINO can happen without a critical mass of Leavers saying that we'd be better off staying. Once that position gathers momentum it will be hard to stop.
See the response from Big G. It goes like this: We have Brexited. We did what people voted for. Single Market? Customs Union? Vassal State? Who cares?
Camilla did not complain, her spokesperson said she enjoyed it, it was Craig Revell-Horwood who was not impressed as Brendan Cole was told it would breach protocol if he asked her to dance
Wasn't it a breach of protocol for Charles to be banging Camilla while he was married to Diana?
An adulterer and fornicator as Supreme Governor of the Church of England.
The county is going to the dogs.
Would that county be Yorkshire?
Nope. Yorkshire is awesome. It is what the rest of the country aspires to be.
Mr. 43, that kind of contempt for democracy is a recipe for turning the current poisonous atmosphere into trench warfare, whilst teaching the electorate that voting only counts if the Establishment agrees with the result.
It's madness.
MD, it's a prediction that people will prefer to get the thing over with. It's not contempt for democracy if my prediction is correct.
Camilla did not complain, her spokesperson said she enjoyed it, it was Craig Revell-Horwood who was not impressed as Brendan Cole was told it would breach protocol if he asked her to dance
Wasn't it a breach of protocol for Charles to be banging Camilla while he was married to Diana?
An adulterer and fornicator as Supreme Governor of the Church of England.
The country is going to the dogs.
I seem to remember the founder of the Church of England was not exactly a one woman man!
There is little publicity that isn't good publicity. Something for the Sun et al to reflect upon. Corbyn's been out of the news for a while: a reminder that he can deal with pressure calmly doesn't do any harm.
Calmly? Didn't he threaten the press in a recent video?
When the next recession comes then that's only going to be 3 categories the Tories are ahead in.
Any update on Scottish employment figures ?
The next recession will be in Scotland.
Very poor. 14K increase in unemployment and even more alarming a 30K fall in employment (as opposed to the 88K increase for the UK as a whole). It's just as well the Scottish Parliament is about to approve an enterprise friendly, business friendly, investment attracting budget in Holyrood isn't it?
Ah.....
Hardly surprising given the continued job losses in the Oil and Gas industry. Currently somewhere north of 150,000 jobs lost in the North Sea and I suspect even with the current pick up in activity it will be a long time before we see any real move towards more recruitment.
I thought that the more recent numbers were better there? I was speaking to some solicitors from Aberdeen and they were telling me that recruitment had picked up in the last few months, presumably on the back of the oil price rise. There is still optimism that the clean up costs of the North sea are going to be a money spinner for some time, albeit that is not thought to be quite the goldmine that was once thought.
It is undoubtedly the case that the North Sea has been a drag on Scottish performance over the last few years and it is encouraging that despite that employment is (just) still higher than 12 months ago but the trends are not great and making Scotland the most heavily taxed part of the UK is just bloody stupid.
I’m one of those who’s a Brit abroad making his way somewhere else in the world. That’s not who she was getting at.
Mrs May was highlighting individuals and companies who are making huge amounts of money in Britain but not paying taxes there. She was right to do so.
One of the massive positives from a no-deal brexit is that Google and Facebook will have to have British companies paying British taxes to the satisfaction of British tax inspectors.
I would seriously doubt any Brexit scenario where Google and Facebook pay more taxes to the UK Exchequer.
A “No-deal” scenario absolutely results in this, as does any deal with the EU that doesn’t incorporate intangibles such as software and services.
I don't see how a No Deal changes the relationship with Google and Facebook.
Camilla did not complain, her spokesperson said she enjoyed it, it was Craig Revell-Horwood who was not impressed as Brendan Cole was told it would breach protocol if he asked her to dance
Wasn't it a breach of protocol for Charles to be banging Camilla while he was married to Diana?
An adulterer and fornicator as Supreme Governor of the Church of England.
The country is going to the dogs.
I seem to remember the founder of the Church of England was not exactly a one woman man!
I’m one of those who’s a Brit abroad making his way somewhere else in the world. That’s not who she was getting at.
Mrs May was highlighting individuals and companies who are making huge amounts of money in Britain but not paying taxes there. She was right to do so.
One of the massive positives from a no-deal brexit is that Google and Facebook will have to have British companies paying British taxes to the satisfaction of British tax inspectors.
I would seriously doubt any Brexit scenario where Google and Facebook pay more taxes to the UK Exchequer.
A “No-deal” scenario absolutely results in this, as does any deal with the EU that doesn’t incorporate intangibles such as software and services.
I don't see how a No Deal changes the relationship with Google and Facebook.
Camilla did not complain, her spokesperson said she enjoyed it, it was Craig Revell-Horwood who was not impressed as Brendan Cole was told it would breach protocol if he asked her to dance
Wasn't it a breach of protocol for Charles to be banging Camilla while he was married to Diana?
An adulterer and fornicator as Supreme Governor of the Church of England.
The country is going to the dogs.
I seem to remember the founder of the Church of England was not exactly a one woman man!
The man who burned heretics at the stake.
A great role model.
He could be brutal but he also increased the navy from about 5 ships to 60, founded the royal dockyards, increased the national wealth and united England and Wales
Camilla did not complain, her spokesperson said she enjoyed it, it was Craig Revell-Horwood who was not impressed as Brendan Cole was told it would breach protocol if he asked her to dance
Wasn't it a breach of protocol for Charles to be banging Camilla while he was married to Diana?
An adulterer and fornicator as Supreme Governor of the Church of England.
The country is going to the dogs.
I seem to remember the founder of the Church of England was not exactly a one woman man!
The man who burned heretics at the stake.
A great role model.
He could be brutal but he also increased the navy from about 5 ships to 60, founded the royal dockyards, increased the national wealth and united England and Wales
Mr. D, that's always the fear. I was very relieved Game of Thrones turned out to be good. Reminds me, at some point I need to earn sufficient monies to acquire series 6 and 7.
Camilla did not complain, her spokesperson said she enjoyed it, it was Craig Revell-Horwood who was not impressed as Brendan Cole was told it would breach protocol if he asked her to dance
Wasn't it a breach of protocol for Charles to be banging Camilla while he was married to Diana?
An adulterer and fornicator as Supreme Governor of the Church of England.
The country is going to the dogs.
I seem to remember the founder of the Church of England was not exactly a one woman man!
The man who burned heretics at the stake.
A great role model.
He could be brutal but he also increased the navy from about 5 ships to 60, founded the royal dockyards, increased the national wealth and united England and Wales
Sounds like a bit like Stalin.
Except Stalin killed more people than the population of England in the 16th century
We clearly won’t, because that means we’re a totally passive rule taker and we’d have no control over migration from Europe.
There is no way that would be acceptable to the House of Commons or the Tory Party. It will not happen.
Then the stalemate will continue. There are only four basic options and we would then have rejected two of them: EU membership and "Norway". No Deal isn't a serious solution. Leaving all our hopes pinned on a Canada style FTA. It is a very long drawn out and uncertain process, where a result, if it happens at all, is guaranteed to be mediocre. Unless we have open ended transition arrangements we will be out in No Deal land anyway. If you just want to get this thing over with, you need to go for Norway or EU membership.
By the way, passive rule taking and the lack of sovereignty that comes with "Norway" is a MASSIVE issue for me. That's why I support EU membership and think William has logic on his side. I don't think the bulk of Leavers are all that bothered by sovereignty. On balance, I believe Norway is the most likely outcome.
I could envisage a Norway Minus where Freedom of Movement has limited constraints in exchange for somewhat lower level access to the Single Market, probably in services.
One of tomorrow's by-elections has been cancelled by injunction after a judge ruled that a councillor who wished to retract a (forward-dated?) resignation could do so. I think there's more to it than meets the eye, but clearly a surprise.
Not a good night to be a legal officer in Wigan Council I suspect..... (they're not appealing)
Looking at the GE figures alone, there seems to have been zero change (beyond MoE) since the snap election. 2017 GE in London: Con 33.1% (vice 34% in this poll) Lab: 54.5% (vice 53% in this poll) LD: 8.8% (vice 8% in this poll)
One of tomorrow's by-elections has been cancelled by injunction after a judge ruled that a councillor who wished to retract a (forward-dated?) resignation could do so. I think there's more to it than meets the eye, but clearly a surprise.
Not a good night to be a legal officer in Wigan Council I suspect..... (they're not appealing)
Top judge? Hadn’t realised the seat of the Supreme Court had moved...
Camilla did not complain, her spokesperson said she enjoyed it, it was Craig Revell-Horwood who was not impressed as Brendan Cole was told it would breach protocol if he asked her to dance
Wasn't it a breach of protocol for Charles to be banging Camilla while he was married to Diana?
An adulterer and fornicator as Supreme Governor of the Church of England.
The country is going to the dogs.
I seem to remember the founder of the Church of England was not exactly a one woman man!
The man who burned heretics at the stake.
A great role model.
He could be brutal but he also increased the navy from about 5 ships to 60, founded the royal dockyards, increased the national wealth and united England and Wales
Sounds like a bit like Stalin.
Except Stalin killed more people than the population of England in the 16th century
Henry VIII nationalised Church assets, taking them out of the control of foreign powers.
One of tomorrow's by-elections has been cancelled by injunction after a judge ruled that a councillor who wished to retract a (forward-dated?) resignation could do so. I think there's more to it than meets the eye, but clearly a surprise.
Not a good night to be a legal officer in Wigan Council I suspect..... (they're not appealing)
Labour must have had good hopes of taking the ward:
2016 election:
Steve Jones Independent Network 1200 David Hurst Labour Party 1123 Thomas Keith Miller UK Independence Party (UKIP) 438 Margaret Mary Winstanley The Conservative Party Candidate 161 Spoilt Ballot Papers 9 Electorate: 8734 % Poll: 33.56
When the next recession comes then that's only going to be 3 categories the Tories are ahead in.
Any update on Scottish employment figures ?
The next recession will be in Scotland.
Very poor. 14K increase in unemployment and even more alarming a 30K fall in employment (as opposed to the 88K increase for the UK as a whole). It's just as well the Scottish Parliament is about to approve an enterprise friendly, business friendly, investment attracting budget in Holyrood isn't it?
Ah.....
Tories demanding Hard Brexit will really help. When will we leave the sinking ship.
When the next recession comes then that's only going to be 3 categories the Tories are ahead in.
Any update on Scottish employment figures ?
The next recession will be in Scotland.
Very poor. 14K increase in unemployment and even more alarming a 30K fall in employment (as opposed to the 88K increase for the UK as a whole). It's just as well the Scottish Parliament is about to approve an enterprise friendly, business friendly, investment attracting budget in Holyrood isn't it?
Ah.....
Tories demanding Hard Brexit will really help. When will we leave the sinking ship.
Unfortunately Malcolm, Scotland is the bit that is taking in water at the moment. Lowest growth, as of today higher unemployment, above average share of public sector employment, weaker investment. And the clowns in Holyrood think the answer is to increase taxes on an already weak tax base.
Hello all: just popping in to say that off to an Intelligence Squared debate this evening with Stella Creasy, Roger Scruton, George Monbiot and Kwasi Kwarteng. First time I've ever been to one of these so not sure what to expect. Anyway I will report back if anything of interest emerges.
The hint is in the subtitle 'Part [..] of the withdrawal agreement'.
Ah, there's no pedant like a British pedant. Makes me proud.
Heh, fair enough. It just looked odd
We can't just take hair-brained risks like numbering documents using cardinal numbers. What if someone introduced a new clause? Chaos, anarchy and the end of Brexit.
So are Londoners, by the looks of it. I mean, I take it these are supposed to be sentient beings, right? And they want Corbyn as PM???
As the thread header shows, the London public correctly are unimpressed by both leaders on offer. What they definitely don't want is a Conservative party defined by Brexit.
But they seem to want a Labour government with the same policy on Brexit.
No, me neither.
They want a Labour government that they believe is potentially more amenable to a rethink on Brexit than the Conservatives and either way doesn't treat them like fifth columnists.
I would like a government that is potentially more amenable to a rethink on Brexit, or at least to an implementation of Brexit which doesn't involve cutting off both feet and both arms. But I do not believe for a moment that Labour under Corby is such a government. Nothing that Corbyn or McDonnell did during the referendum campaign or since or in all their previous time as MPs suggests to me that they have the slightest liking for the EU. Or any intention to do what so many voters would like them to do.
The hint is in the subtitle 'Part [..] of the withdrawal agreement'.
Ah, there's no pedant like a British pedant. Makes me proud.
Heh, fair enough. It just looked odd
We can't just take hair-brained risks like numbering documents using cardinal numbers. What if someone introduced a new clause? Chaos, anarchy and the end of Brexit.
Umm, is this because they haven't used Word or something?
Oooh-wee, it’s Paul Thomas Anderson’s best since There Will Be Blood. Daniel Day Lewis is a genius, Lesley Manville *must* get the Supporting Actress Oscar, and newcomer Vicky Krieps is sublime. And the Johnny Greenwood score? Wow.
The hint is in the subtitle 'Part [..] of the withdrawal agreement'.
Ah, there's no pedant like a British pedant. Makes me proud.
Heh, fair enough. It just looked odd
We can't just take hair-brained risks like numbering documents using cardinal numbers. What if someone introduced a new clause? Chaos, anarchy and the end of Brexit.
By odd, I meant funny... the combination of both roman numerals, numbers AND letters.
It is not just London that Jezza's shtick is working. Look at the likes of Bristol, in areas of well to do highly educated folk, they appear to love the sound of reheated 70s socialism.
Just because people are highly educated does not mean that (a) they have any common-sense or (b) any knowledge of history.
I think that is rather more likely that, by comparison with May and the likes of JRM/Boris/Davis/Fox and other loons, Labour sounds more normal, more in tune with what most people are bothered about and appears to have come up with some answers, however rubbish they may turn out to be in practice.
The fault is entirely with the Tories who are trashing their economic reputation, generally painting themselves into a corner and coming across as the sort of person you do not want to find yourself sitting next to on a long train journey.
Oooh-wee, it’s Paul Thomas Anderson’s best since There Will Be Blood. Daniel Day Lewis is a genius, Lesley Manville *must* get the Supporting Actress Oscar, and newcomer Vicky Krieps is sublime. And the Johnny Greenwood score? Wow.
The Good Lady Wifi cast her BAFTA vote for each of DDL and Lesley Manville. She (rightly) didn't expect either to be winning votes, but thought they were just stunning performances in a film that really stays with you. One of the most rewarding films of the whole award season I thought.
It is not just London that Jezza's shtick is working. Look at the likes of Bristol, in areas of well to do highly educated folk, they appear to love the sound of reheated 70s socialism.
Just because people are highly educated does not mean that (a) they have any common-sense or (b) any knowledge of history.
I think that is rather more likely that, by comparison with May and the likes of JRM/Boris/Davis/Fox and other loons, Labour sounds more normal, more in tune with what most people are bothered about and appears to have come up with some answers, however rubbish they may turn out to be in practice.
The fault is entirely with the Tories who are trashing their economic reputation, generally painting themselves into a corner and coming across as the sort of person you do not want to find yourself sitting next to on a long train journey.
You're taking this Brexit stuff far too seriously. Here is a brief list of the things that will make a much bigger difference to our economy and standard of living that the government should be focussing on: The Trade deficit. In the longer run very little will have as big an impact on the standard of living of our children. Inevitably none of our politicians even seem to want to talk about it.
Public sector borrowing. 10 years after the last recession we are still borrowing almost £40bn a year. And the demand for increases in large and expensive parts of the welfare state are becoming irresistible. In reality our state runs a significant structural deficit that we have not fixed.
Private sector borrowing. Encouraged by over low interest rates for a decade, our economy lives off credit spending like a heroin addict on smack. In both cases it usually does not end well.
Productivity. Reflecting serious deficiencies in education, training and investment, recent improvements notwithstanding.
Housing. You cannot invite several million immigrants to work in your economy without a massive housing program. If you do you end up in the mess we are in right now.
Infrastructure. One of the underlying causes of poor productivity but also a major problem in an overcrowded island (generating huge costs) with the demands of current spending on available budgets.
It is of course concerning how little attention these are all getting but Brexit is a side issue.
It is not just London that Jezza's shtick is working. Look at the likes of Bristol, in areas of well to do highly educated folk, they appear to love the sound of reheated 70s socialism.
Just because people are highly educated does not mean that (a) they have any common-sense or (b) any knowledge of history.
I think that is rather more likely that, by comparison with May and the likes of JRM/Boris/Davis/Fox and other loons, Labour sounds more normal, more in tune with what most people are bothered about and appears to have come up with some answers, however rubbish they may turn out to be in practice.
The fault is entirely with the Tories who are trashing their economic reputation, generally painting themselves into a corner and coming across as the sort of person you do not want to find yourself sitting next to on a long train journey.
You're taking this Brexit stuff far too seriously. Here is a brief list of the things that will make a much bigger difference to our economy and standard of living that the government should be focussing on: The Trade deficit. In the longer run very little will have as big an impact on the standard of living of our children. Inevitably none of our politicians even seem to want to talk about it.
Public sector borrowing. 10 years after the last recession we are still borrowing almost £40bn a year. And the demand for increases in large and expensive parts of the welfare state are becoming irresistible. In reality our state runs a significant structural deficit that we have not fixed.
Private sector borrowing. Encouraged by over low interest rates for a decade, our economy lives off credit spending like a heroin addict on smack. In both cases it usually does not end well.
Productivity. Reflecting serious deficiencies in education, training and investment, recent improvements notwithstanding.
Housing. You cannot invite several million immigrants to work in your economy without a massive housing program. If you do you end up in the mess we are in right now.
Infrastructure. One of the underlying causes of poor productivity but also a major problem in an overcrowded island (generating huge costs) with the demands of current spending on available budgets.
It is of course concerning how little attention these are all getting but Brexit is a side issue.
Well put David. I'd add one extra worry to the mix; the inability of government (and particularly THIS government) to make decisions in a timely fashion. In the software world it's called 'analysis paralysis'. There's always time for a review, a commission, another consultation period and so on. Our OODA loop is just awful. We must become more agile.
Oooh-wee, it’s Paul Thomas Anderson’s best since There Will Be Blood. Daniel Day Lewis is a genius, Lesley Manville *must* get the Supporting Actress Oscar, and newcomer Vicky Krieps is sublime. And the Johnny Greenwood score? Wow.
The Good Lady Wifi cast her BAFTA vote for each of DDL and Lesley Manville. She (rightly) didn't expect either to be winning votes, but thought they were just stunning performances in a film that really stays with you. One of the most rewarding films of the whole award season I thought.
It is not just London that Jezza's shtick is working. Look at the likes of Bristol, in areas of well to do highly educated folk, they appear to love the sound of reheated 70s socialism.
Just because people are highly educated does not mean that (a) they have any common-sense or (b) any knowledge of history.
I think that is rather more likely that, by comparison with May and the likes of JRM/Boris/Davis/Fox and other loons, Labour sounds more normal, more in tune with what most people are bothered about and appears to have come up with some answers, however rubbish they may turn out to be in practice.
The fault is entirely with the Tories who are trashing their economic reputation, generally painting themselves into a corner and coming across as the sort of person you do not want to find yourself sitting next to on a long train journey.
You're taking this Brexit stuff far too seriously. Here is a brief list of the things that will make a much bigger difference to our economy and standard of living that the government should be focussing on: The Trade deficit. In the longer run very little will have as big an impact on the standard of living of our children. Inevitably none of our politicians even seem to want to talk about it.
Public sector borrowing. 10 years after the last recession we are still borrowing almost £40bn a year. And the demand for increases in large and expensive parts of the welfare state are becoming irresistible. In reality our state runs a significant structural deficit that we have not fixed.
Private sector borrowing. Encouraged by over low interest rates for a decade, our economy lives off credit spending like a heroin addict on smack. In both cases it usually does not end well.
Productivity. Reflecting serious deficiencies in education, training and investment, recent improvements notwithstanding.
Housing. You cannot invite several million immigrants to work in your economy without a massive housing program. If you do you end up in the mess we are in right now.
Infrastructure. One of the underlying causes of poor productivity but also a major problem in an overcrowded island (generating huge costs) with the demands of current spending on available budgets.
It is of course concerning how little attention these are all getting but Brexit is a side issue.
Well put David. I'd add one extra worry to the mix; the inability of government (and particularly THIS government) to make decisions in a timely fashion. In the software world it's called 'analysis paralysis'. There's always time for a review, a commission, another consultation period and so on. Our OODA loop is just awful. We must become more agile.
Agreed. Cabinet subcommittees henceforth to be called 'scrums'?
It is not just London that Jezza's shtick is working. Look at the likes of Bristol, in areas of well to do highly educated folk, they appear to love the sound of reheated 70s socialism.
Just because people are highly educated does not mean that (a) they have any common-sense or (b) any knowledge of history.
I think that is rather more likely that, by comparison with May and the likes of JRM/Boris/Davis/Fox and other loons, Labour sounds more normal, more in tune with what most people are bothered about and appears to have come up with some answers, however rubbish they may turn out to be in practice.
The fault is entirely with the Tories who are trashing their economic reputation, generally painting themselves into a corner and coming across as the sort of person you do not want to find yourself sitting next to on a long train journey.
You're taking this Brexit stuff far too seriously. Here is a brief list of the things that will make a much bigger difference to our economy and standard of living that the government should be focussing on: The Trade deficit. In the longer run very little will have as big an impact on the standard of living of our children. Inevitably none of our politicians even seem to want to talk about it.
Public sector borrowing. 10 years after the last recession we are still borrowing almost £40bn a year. And the demand for increases in large and expensive parts of the welfare state are becoming irresistible. In reality our state runs a significant structural deficit that we have not fixed.
Private sector borrowing. Encouraged by over low interest rates for a decade, our economy lives off credit spending like a heroin addict on smack. In both cases it usually does not end well.
Productivity. Reflecting serious deficiencies in education, training and investment, recent improvements notwithstanding.
Housing. You cannot invite several million immigrants to work in your economy without a massive housing program. If you do you end up in the mess we are in right now.
Infrastructure. One of the underlying causes of poor productivity but also a major problem in an overcrowded island (generating huge costs) with the demands of current spending on available budgets.
It is of course concerning how little attention these are all getting but Brexit is a side issue.
Brexit has an impact on the trade deficit, and all the energy wasted on it crowds out attention on the other issues you mention.
So actually, yes, Brexit is the biggest show in town.
Just because people are highly educated does not mean that (a) they have any common-sense or (b) any knowledge of history.
I think that is rather more likely that, by comparison with May and the likes of JRM/Boris/Davis/Fox and other loons, Labour sounds more normal, more in tune with what most people are bothered about and appears to have come up with some answers, however rubbish they may turn out to be in practice.
The fault is entirely with the Tories who are trashing their economic reputation, generally painting themselves into a corner and coming across as the sort of person you do not want to find yourself sitting next to on a long train journey.
You're taking this Brexit stuff far too seriously. Here is a brief list of the things that will make a much bigger difference to our economy and standard of living that the government should be focussing on: The Trade deficit. In the longer run very little will have as big an impact on the standard of living of our children. Inevitably none of our politicians even seem to want to talk about it.
Public sector borrowing. 10 years after the last recession we are still borrowing almost £40bn a year. And the demand for increases in large and expensive parts of the welfare state are becoming irresistible. In reality our state runs a significant structural deficit that we have not fixed.
Private sector borrowing. Encouraged by over low interest rates for a decade, our economy lives off credit spending like a heroin addict on smack. In both cases it usually does not end well.
Productivity. Reflecting serious deficiencies in education, training and investment, recent improvements notwithstanding.
Housing. You cannot invite several million immigrants to work in your economy without a massive housing program. If you do you end up in the mess we are in right now.
Infrastructure. One of the underlying causes of poor productivity but also a major problem in an overcrowded island (generating huge costs) with the demands of current spending on available budgets.
It is of course concerning how little attention these are all getting but Brexit is a side issue.
Well put David. I'd add one extra worry to the mix; the inability of government (and particularly THIS government) to make decisions in a timely fashion. In the software world it's called 'analysis paralysis'. There's always time for a review, a commission, another consultation period and so on. Our OODA loop is just awful. We must become more agile.
Wouldn't disagree. The situation with Heathrow is beyond ridiculous.
Camilla did not complain, her spokesperson said she enjoyed it, it was Craig Revell-Horwood who was not impressed as Brendan Cole was told it would breach protocol if he asked her to dance
Wasn't it a breach of protocol for Charles to be banging Camilla while he was married to Diana?
An adulterer and fornicator as Supreme Governor of the Church of England.
The country is going to the dogs.
I seem to remember the founder of the Church of England was not exactly a one woman man!
The man who burned heretics at the stake.
A great role model.
Be careful what you wish for TSE. Who is to say which side of that line either you or I would end up on.
Just because people are highly educated does not mean that (a) they have any common-sense or (b) any knowledge of history.
I think that is rather more likely that, by comparison with May and the likes of JRM/Boris/Davis/Fox and other loons, Labour sounds more normal, more in tune with what most people are bothered about and appears to have come up with some answers, however rubbish they may turn out to be in practice.
The fault is entirely with the Tories who are trashing their economic reputation, generally painting themselves into a corner and coming across as the sort of person you do not want to find yourself sitting next to on a long train journey.
You're taking this Brexit stuff far too seriously. Here is a brief list of the things that will make a much bigger difference to our economy and standard of living that the government should be focussing on: The Trade deficit. In the longer run very little will have as big an impact on the standard of living of our children. Inevitably none of our politicians even seem to want to talk about it.
Public sector borrowing. 10 years after the last recession we are still borrowing almost £40bn a year. And the demand for increases in large and expensive parts of the welfare state are becoming irresistible. In reality our state runs a significant structural deficit that we have not fixed.
Private sector borrowing. Encouraged by over low interest rates for a decade, our economy lives off credit spending like a heroin addict on smack. In both cases it usually does not end well.
Productivity. Reflecting serious deficiencies in education, training and investment, recent improvements notwithstanding.
Housing. You cannot invite several million immigrants to work in your economy without a massive housing program. If you do you end up in the mess we are in right now.
Infrastructure. One of the underlying causes of poor productivity but also a major problem in an overcrowded island (generating huge costs) with the demands of current spending on available budgets.
It is of course concerning how little attention these are all getting but Brexit is a side issue.
Brexit has an impact on the trade deficit, and all the energy wasted on it crowds out attention on the other issues you mention.
So actually, yes, Brexit is the biggest show in town.
It really isn't. To take a simple example if we don't get a FTA with the EU (which we will) it is likely that trade deficit with the EU would fall.
It is not just London that Jezza's shtick is working. Look at the likes of Bristol, in areas of well to do highly educated folk, they appear to love the sound of reheated 70s socialism.
Just because people are highly educated does not mean that (a) they have any common-sense or (b) any knowledge of history.
I think that is rather more likely that, by comparison with May and the likes of JRM/Boris/Davis/Fox and other loons, Labour sounds more normal, more in tune with what most people are bothered about and appears to have come up with some answers, however rubbish they may turn out to be in practice.
The fault is entirely with the Tories who are trashing their economic reputation, generally painting themselves into a corner and coming across as the sort of person you do not want to find yourself sitting next to on a long train journey.
You're taking this Brexit stuff far too seriously. Here is a brief list of the things that will make a much bigger difference to our economy and standard of living that the government should be focussing on: The Trade deficit. In the longer run very little will have as big an impact on the standard of living of our children. Inevitably none of our politicians even seem to want to talk about it.
Public sector borrowing. 10 years after the last recession we are still borrowing almost £40bn a year. And the demand for increases in large and expensive parts of the welfare state are becoming irresistible. In reality our state runs a significant structural deficit that we have not fixed.
Private sector borrowing. Encouraged by over low interest rates for a decade, our economy lives off credit spending like a heroin addict on smack. In both cases it usually does not end well.
Productivity. Reflecting serious deficiencies in education, training and investment, recent improvements notwithstanding.
Housing. You cannot invite several million immigrants to work in your economy without a massive housing program. If you do you end up in the mess we are in right now.
Infrastructure. One of the underlying causes of poor productivity but also a major problem in an overcrowded island (generating huge costs) with the demands of current spending on available budgets.
It is of course concerning how little attention these are all getting but Brexit is a side issue.
But, surely, it is Brexit which is stopping the government thinking about all these things let along coming up with sensible solutions?
And, indeed, Brexit may well make much of these matters worse. Eg the trade deficit. Making it harder to trade with the EU is not really going to help, is it?
I hope not but I fear so.
Anyway, bye. Off to listen now rather than opine......
It is not just London that Jezza's shtick is working. Look at the likes of Bristol, in areas of well to do highly educated folk, they appear to love the sound of reheated 70s socialism.
Just because people are highly educated does not mean that (a) they have any common-sense or (b) any knowledge of history.
I think that is rather more likely that, by comparison with May and the likes of JRM/Boris/Davis/Fox and other loons, Labour sounds more normal, more in tune with what most people are bothered about and appears to have come up with some answers, however rubbish they may turn out to be in practice.
The fault is entirely with the Tories who are trashing their economic reputation, generally painting themselves into a corner and coming across as the sort of person you do not want to find yourself sitting next to on a long train journey.
You're taking this Brexit stuff far too seriously. Here is a brief list of the things that will make a much bigger difference to our economy and standard of living that the government should be focussing on: The Trade deficit. In the longer run very little will have as big an impact on the standard of living of our children. Inevitably none of our politicians even seem to want to talk about it.
It is of course concerning how little attention these are all getting but Brexit is a side issue.
Well put David. I'd add one extra worry to the mix; the inability of government (and particularly THIS government) to make decisions in a timely fashion. In the software world it's called 'analysis paralysis'. There's always time for a review, a commission, another consultation period and so on. Our OODA loop is just awful. We must become more agile.
Agreed. Cabinet subcommittees henceforth to be called 'scrums'?
Not a fan . I'd suggest we used the procedures introduced by the HRE in the Golden Bull of 1356. If those fail, the procedures proposed by the estimable Mr Dancer in ~2008.
You're taking this Brexit stuff far too seriously. Here is a brief list of the things that will make a much bigger difference to our economy and standard of living that the government should be focussing on: The Trade deficit. In the longer run very little will have as big an impact on the standard of living of our children. Inevitably none of our politicians even seem to want to talk about it.
Public sector borrowing. 10 years after the last recession we are still borrowing almost £40bn a year. And the demand for increases in large and expensive parts of the welfare state are becoming irresistible. In reality our state runs a significant structural deficit that we have not fixed.
Private sector borrowing. Encouraged by over low interest rates for a decade, our economy lives off credit spending like a heroin addict on smack. In both cases it usually does not end well.
Productivity. Reflecting serious deficiencies in education, training and investment, recent improvements notwithstanding.
Housing. You cannot invite several million immigrants to work in your economy without a massive housing program. If you do you end up in the mess we are in right now.
Infrastructure. One of the underlying causes of poor productivity but also a major problem in an overcrowded island (generating huge costs) with the demands of current spending on available budgets.
It is of course concerning how little attention these are all getting but Brexit is a side issue.
But, surely, it is Brexit which is stopping the government thinking about all these things let along coming up with sensible solutions?
And, indeed, Brexit may well make much of these matters worse. Eg the trade deficit. Making it harder to trade with the EU is not really going to help, is it?
I hope not but I fear so.
Anyway, bye. Off to listen now rather than opine......
It is the incompetence of our political class that means we have Brexit paralysis, not the process itself. We have seen the same in Scotland where generations of politicians have obsessed with constitutional arrangements instead of doing the day job.
Just because people are highly educated does not mean that (a) they have any common-sense or (b) any knowledge of history.
I think that is rather more likely that, by comparison with May and the likes of JRM/Boris/Davis/Fox and other loons, Labour sounds more normal, more in tune with what most people are bothered about and appears to have come up with some answers, however rubbish they may turn out to be in practice.
The fault is entirely with the Tories who are trashing their economic reputation, generally painting themselves into a corner and coming across as the sort of person you do not want to find yourself sitting next to on a long train journey.
You're taking this Brexit stuff far too seriously. Here is a brief list of the things that will make a much bigger difference to our economy and standard of living that the government should be focussing on: The Trade deficit. In the longer run very little will have as big an impact on the standard of living of our children. Inevitably none of our politicians even seem to want to talk about it.
Public sector borrowing. 10 years after the last recession we are still borrowing almost £40bn a year. And the demand for increases in large and expensive parts of the welfare state are becoming irresistible. In reality our state runs a significant structural deficit that we have not fixed.
Private sector borrowing. Encouraged by over low interest rates for a decade, our economy lives off credit spending like a heroin addict on smack. In both cases it usually does not end well.
Productivity. Reflecting serious deficiencies in education, training and investment, recent improvements notwithstanding.
Housing. You cannot invite several million immigrants to work in your economy without a massive housing program. If you do you end up in the mess we are in right now.
Infrastructure. One of the underlying causes of poor productivity but also a major problem in an overcrowded island (generating huge costs) with the demands of current spending on available budgets.
It is of course concerning how little attention these are all getting but Brexit is a side issue.
Brexit has an impact on the trade deficit, and all the energy wasted on it crowds out attention on the other issues you mention.
So actually, yes, Brexit is the biggest show in town.
It really isn't. To take a simple example if we don't get a FTA with the EU (which we will) it is likely that trade deficit with the EU would fall.
A falling trade deficit caused by a reduction in overall trade volumes is not a good thing.
You're taking this Brexit stuff far too seriously. Here is a brief list of the things that will make a much bigger difference to our economy and standard of living that the government should be focussing on: The Trade deficit. In the longer run very little will have as big an impact on the standard of living of our children. Inevitably none of our politicians even seem to want to talk about it.
Public sector borrowing. 10 years after the last recession we are still borrowing almost £40bn a year. And the demand for increases in large and expensive parts of the welfare state are becoming irresistible. In reality our state runs a significant structural deficit that we have not fixed.
Private sector borrowing. Encouraged by over low interest rates for a decade, our economy lives off credit spending like a heroin addict on smack. In both cases it usually does not end well.
Productivity. Reflecting serious deficiencies in education, training and investment, recent improvements notwithstanding.
Housing. You cannot invite several million immigrants to work in your economy without a massive housing program. If you do you end up in the mess we are in right now.
Infrastructure. One of the underlying causes of poor productivity but also a major problem in an overcrowded island (generating huge costs) with the demands of current spending on available budgets.
It is of course concerning how little attention these are all getting but Brexit is a side issue.
But, surely, it is Brexit which is stopping the government thinking about all these things let along coming up with sensible solutions?
And, indeed, Brexit may well make much of these matters worse. Eg the trade deficit. Making it harder to trade with the EU is not really going to help, is it?
I hope not but I fear so.
Anyway, bye. Off to listen now rather than opine......
It is the incompetence of our political class that means we have Brexit paralysis, not the process itself. We have seen the same in Scotland where generations of politicians have obsessed with constitutional arrangements instead of doing the day job.
Sloppy thinking. Brexit is inherently navel-gazing, and the incompetence of our political class was and is a known constraint.
You are close to claiming that Brexit is perfect in theory but just hasn’t been implemented properly.
You're taking this Brexit stuff far too seriously. Here is a brief list of the things that will make a much bigger difference to our economy and standard of living that the government should be focussing on: The Trade deficit. In the longer run very little will have as big an impact on the standard of living of our children. Inevitably none of our politicians even seem to want to talk about it.
Public sector borrowing. 10 years after the last recession we are still borrowing almost £40bn a year. And the demand for increases in large and expensive parts of the welfare state are becoming irresistible. In reality our state runs a significant structural deficit that we have not fixed.
Private sector borrowing. Encouraged by over low interest rates for a decade, our economy lives off credit spending like a heroin addict on smack. In both cases it usually does not end well.
Productivity. Reflecting serious deficiencies in education, training and investment, recent improvements notwithstanding.
Housing. You cannot invite several million immigrants to work in your economy without a massive housing program. If you do you end up in the mess we are in right now.
Infrastructure. One of the underlying causes of poor productivity but also a major problem in an overcrowded island (generating huge costs) with the demands of current spending on available budgets.
It is of course concerning how little attention these are all getting but Brexit is a side issue.
Brexit has an impact on the trade deficit, and all the energy wasted on it crowds out attention on the other issues you mention.
So actually, yes, Brexit is the biggest show in town.
It really isn't. To take a simple example if we don't get a FTA with the EU (which we will) it is likely that trade deficit with the EU would fall.
A falling trade deficit caused by a reduction in overall trade volumes is not a good thing.
It’s a very bad thing, as we saw in the 1930s.
That is a different question and I don't disagree. But it is wrong to say that a no deal Brexit would increase our trade deficit. It wouldn't.
But, surely, it is Brexit which is stopping the government thinking about all these things let along coming up with sensible solutions?
And, indeed, Brexit may well make much of these matters worse. Eg the trade deficit. Making it harder to trade with the EU is not really going to help, is it?
I hope not but I fear so.
Anyway, bye. Off to listen now rather than opine......
If EU membership is the underlying cause of many of those issues then simply ignoring it is not going to make things any better. If that is the case then Brexit is very much part of the solution.
You're taking this Brexit stuff far too seriously. Here is a brief list of the things that will make a much bigger difference to our economy and standard of living that the government should be focussing on: The Trade deficit. In the longer run very little will have as big an impact on the standard of living of our children. Inevitably none of our politicians even seem to want to talk about it.
Public sector borrowing. 10 years after the last recession we are still borrowing almost £40bn a year. And the demand for increases in large and expensive parts of the welfare state are becoming irresistible. In reality our state runs a significant structural deficit that we have not fixed.
Private sector borrowing. Encouraged by over low interest rates for a decade, our economy lives off credit spending like a heroin addict on smack. In both cases it usually does not end well.
Productivity. Reflecting serious deficiencies in education, training and investment, recent improvements notwithstanding.
Housing. You cannot invite several million immigrants to work in your economy without a massive housing program. If you do you end up in the mess we are in right now.
Infrastructure. One of the underlying causes of poor productivity but also a major problem in an overcrowded island (generating huge costs) with the demands of current spending on available budgets.
It is of course concerning how little attention these are all getting but Brexit is a side issue.
Brexit has an impact on the trade deficit, and all the energy wasted on it crowds out attention on the other issues you mention.
So actually, yes, Brexit is the biggest show in town.
It really isn't. To take a simple example if we don't get a FTA with the EU (which we will) it is likely that trade deficit with the EU would fall.
A falling trade deficit caused by a reduction in overall trade volumes is not a good thing.
It’s a very bad thing, as we saw in the 1930s.
That is a different question and I don't disagree. But it is wrong to say that a no deal Brexit would increase our trade deficit. It wouldn't.
I didn’t say it would. I said it would be impacted, and not in a healthy way.
But, surely, it is Brexit which is stopping the government thinking about all these things let along coming up with sensible solutions?
And, indeed, Brexit may well make much of these matters worse. Eg the trade deficit. Making it harder to trade with the EU is not really going to help, is it?
I hope not but I fear so.
Anyway, bye. Off to listen now rather than opine......
It is the incompetence of our political class that means we have Brexit paralysis, not the process itself. We have seen the same in Scotland where generations of politicians have obsessed with constitutional arrangements instead of doing the day job.
Sloppy thinking. Brexit is inherently navel-gazing, and the incompetence of our political class was and is a known constraint.
You are close to claiming that Brexit is perfect in theory but just hasn’t been implemented properly.
Nope. I am simply saying that Brexit will have almost no detectable effect (in the event of a good deal) or an absolutely minimal effect (in the event of a poor deal). Either way everything on my list and John M's point about the inability of our politicians to make a decision will have much more impact on how our economy performs.
But, surely, it is Brexit which is stopping the government thinking about all these things let along coming up with sensible solutions?
And, indeed, Brexit may well make much of these matters worse. Eg the trade deficit. Making it harder to trade with the EU is not really going to help, is it?
I hope not but I fear so.
Anyway, bye. Off to listen now rather than opine......
It is the incompetence of our political class that means we have Brexit paralysis, not the process itself. We have seen the same in Scotland where generations of politicians have obsessed with constitutional arrangements instead of doing the day job.
Sloppy thinking. Brexit is inherently navel-gazing, and the incompetence of our political class was and is a known constraint.
You are close to claiming that Brexit is perfect in theory but just hasn’t been implemented properly.
Nope. I am simply saying that Brexit will have almost no detectable effect (in the event of a good deal) or an absolutely minimal effect (in the event of a poor deal). Either way everything on my list and John M's point about the inability of our politicians to make a decision will have much more impact on how our economy performs.
On your point that Brexit will have a non detectable effect, not a single economist alive agrees with you.
I mean, even Patrick “Close down the North” Minford predicts an effect, albeit with the wrong sign.
It is not just London that Jezza's shtick is working. Look at the likes of Bristol, in areas of well to do highly educated folk, they appear to love the sound of reheated 70s socialism.
Just because people are highly educated does not mean that (a) they have any common-sense or (b) any knowledge of history.
I think that is rather more likely that, by comparison with May and the likes of JRM/Boris/Davis/Fox and other loons, Labour sounds more normal, more in tune with what most people are bothered about and appears to have come up with some answers, however rubbish they may turn out to be in practice.
The fault is entirely with the Tories who are trashing their economic reputation, generally painting themselves into a corner and coming across as the sort of person you do not want to find yourself sitting next to on a long train journey.
You're taking this Brexit stuff far too seriously. Here is a brief list of the things that will make a much bigger difference to our economy and standard of living that the government should be focussing on: The Trade deficit. In the longer run very little will have as big an impact on the standard of living of our children. Inevitably none of our politicians even seem to want to talk about it.
It is of course concerning how little attention these are all getting but Brexit is a side issue.
Well put David. I'd add one extra worry to the mix; the inability of government (and particularly THIS government) to make decisions in a timely fashion. In the software world it's called 'analysis paralysis'. There's always time for a review, a commission, another consultation period and so on. Our OODA loop is just awful. We must become more agile.
Agreed. Cabinet subcommittees henceforth to be called 'scrums'?
Not a fan . I'd suggest we used the procedures introduced by the HRE in the Golden Bull of 1356. If those fail, the procedures proposed by the estimable Mr Dancer in ~2008.
But, surely, it is Brexit which is stopping the government thinking about all these things let along coming up with sensible solutions?
And, indeed, Brexit may well make much of these matters worse. Eg the trade deficit. Making it harder to trade with the EU is not really going to help, is it?
I hope not but I fear so.
Anyway, bye. Off to listen now rather than opine......
It is the incompetence of our political class that means we have Brexit paralysis, not the process itself. We have seen the same in Scotland where generations of politicians have obsessed with constitutional arrangements instead of doing the day job.
Sloppy thinking. Brexit is inherently navel-gazing, and the incompetence of our political class was and is a known constraint.
You are close to claiming that Brexit is perfect in theory but just hasn’t been implemented properly.
Nope. I am simply saying that Brexit will have almost no detectable effect (in the event of a good deal) or an absolutely minimal effect (in the event of a poor deal). Either way everything on my list and John M's point about the inability of our politicians to make a decision will have much more impact on how our economy performs.
On your point that Brexit will have a non detectable effect, not a single economist alive agrees with you.
I mean, even Patrick “Close down the North” Minford predicts an effect, albeit with the wrong sign.
These are the economists who are forecasting that the economy would be 5% smaller in 15 years time when they can't get growth in the current year right? So far, since the vote, we have had growth of 1.9%, then 1.8% (it will be revised up in due course) and next month we will be told that growth this year will be around 1.9% again. When are we supposed to be seeing these effects?
It is not just London that Jezza's shtick is working. Look at the likes of Bristol, in areas of well to do highly educated folk, they appear to love the sound of reheated 70s socialism.
Just because people are highly educated does not mean that (a) they have any common-sense or (b) any knowledge of history.
I think that is rather more likely that, by comparison with May and the likes of JRM/Boris/Davis/Fox and other loons, Labour sounds more normal, more in tune with what most people are bothered about and appears to have come up with some answers, however rubbish they may turn out to be in practice.
The fault is entirely with the Tories who are trashing their economic reputation, generally painting themselves into a corner and coming across as the sort of person you do not want to find yourself sitting next to on a long train journey.
You're taking this Brexit stuff far too seriously. Here is a brief list of the things that will make a much bigger difference to our economy and standard of living that the government should be focussing on: The Trade deficit. In the longer run very little will have as big an impact on the standard of living of our children. Inevitably none of our politicians even seem to want to talk about it.
Public sector borrowing. 10 years after the last recession we are still borrowing almost £40bn a year. And the demand for increases in large and expensive parts of the welfare state are becoming irresistible. In reality our state runs a significant structural deficit that we have not fixed.
Private sector borrowing. Encouraged by over low interest rates for a decade, our economy lives off credit spending like a heroin addict on smack. In both cases it usually does not end well.
Productivity. Reflecting serious deficiencies in education, training and investment, recent improvements notwithstanding.
Housing. You cannot invite several million immigrants to work in your economy without a massive housing program. If you do you end up in the mess we are in right now.
Infrastructure. One of the underlying causes of poor productivity but also a major problem in an overcrowded island (generating huge costs) with the demands of current spending on available budgets.
It is of course concerning how little attention these are all getting but Brexit is a side issue.
These subjects are getting next to no attention because some ideological lunatics are determined to press ahead with their mad hobbyhorse as the absolute top priority for the indefinite future.
It is not just London that Jezza's shtick is working. Look at the likes of Bristol, in areas of well to do highly educated folk, they appear to love the sound of reheated 70s socialism.
Just because people are highly educated does not mean that (a) they have any common-sense or (b) any knowledge of history.
I think that is rather more likely that, by comparison with May and the likes of JRM/Boris/Davis/Fox and other loons, Labour sounds more normal, more in tune with what most people are bothered about and appears to have come up with some answers, however rubbish they may turn out to be in practice.
The fault is entirely with the Tories who are trashing their economic reputation, generally painting themselves into a corner and coming across as the sort of person you do not want to find yourself sitting next to on a long train journey.
You're taking this Brexit stuff far too seriously. Here is a brief list of the things that will make a much bigger difference to our economy and standard of living that the government should be focussing on: The Trade deficit. In the longer run very little will have as big an impact on the standard of living of our children. Inevitably none of our politicians even seem to want to talk about it.
It is of course concerning how little attention these are all getting but Brexit is a side issue.
Well put David. I'd add one extra worry to the mix; the inability of government (and particularly THIS government) to make decisions in a timely fashion. In the software world it's called 'analysis paralysis'. There's always time for a review, a commission, another consultation period and so on. Our OODA loop is just awful. We must become more agile.
Agreed. Cabinet subcommittees henceforth to be called 'scrums'?
Not a fan . I'd suggest we used the procedures introduced by the HRE in the Golden Bull of 1356. If those fail, the procedures proposed by the estimable Mr Dancer in ~2008.
Trebuchet?
Indeed. As a reasonable person, I'm also prepared to entertain the enormo-Haddock or space cannon.
It is not just London that Jezza's shtick is working. Look at the likes of Bristol, in areas of well to do highly educated folk, they appear to love the sound of reheated 70s socialism.
Just because people are highly educated does not mean that (a) they have any common-sense or (b) any knowledge of history.
I think that is rather more likely that, by comparison with May and the likes of JRM/Boris/Davis/Fox and other loons, Labour sounds more normal, more in tune with what most people are bothered about and appears to have come up with some answers, however rubbish they may turn out to be in practice.
The fault is entirely with the Tories who are trashing their economic reputation, generally painting themselves into a corner and coming across as the sort of person you do not want to find yourself sitting next to on a long train journey.
You're taking this Brexit stuff far too seriously. Here is a brief list of the things that will make a much bigger difference to our economy and standard of living that the government should be focussing on: The Trade deficit. In the longer run very little will have as big an impact on the standard of living of our children. Inevitably none of our politicians even seem to want to talk about it.
Public sector borrowing. 10 years after the last recession we are still borrowing almost £40bn a year. And the demand for increases in large and expensive parts of the welfare state are becoming irresistible. In reality our state runs a significant structural deficit that we have not fixed.
Private sector borrowing. Encouraged by over low interest rates for a decade, our economy lives off credit spending like a heroin addict on smack. In both cases it usually does not end well.
Productivity. Reflecting serious deficiencies in education, training and investment, recent improvements notwithstanding.
Housing. You cannot invite several million immigrants to work in your economy without a massive housing program. If you do you end up in the mess we are in right now.
Infrastructure. One of the underlying causes of poor productivity but also a major problem in an overcrowded island (generating huge costs) with the demands of current spending on available budgets.
It is of course concerning how little attention these are all getting but Brexit is a side issue.
These subjects are getting next to no attention because some ideological lunatics are determined to press ahead with their mad hobbyhorse as the absolute top priority for the indefinite future.
And because another bunch of ideological lunatics are equally obsessed with stopping them. You used to call the EU a second order problem Alastair. I agree.
It is not just London that Jezza's shtick is working. Look at the likes of Bristol, in areas of well to do highly educated folk, they appear to love the sound of reheated 70s socialism.
Just because people are highly educated does not mean that (a) they have any common-sense or (b) any knowledge of history.
I think that is rather more likely that, by comparison with May and the likes of JRM/Boris/Davis/Fox and other loons, Labour sounds more normal, more in tune with what most people are bothered about and appears to have come up with some answers, however rubbish they may turn out to be in practice.
The fault is entirely with the Tories who are trashing their economic reputation, generally painting themselves into a corner and coming across as the sort of person you do not want to find yourself sitting next to on a long train journey.
You're taking this Brexit stuff far too seriously. Here is a brief list of the things that will make a much bigger difference to our economy and standard of living that the government should be focussing on: The Trade deficit. In the longer run very little will have as big an impact on the standard of living of our children. Inevitably none of our politicians even seem to want to talk about it.
Public sector borrowing. 10 years after the last recession we are still borrowing almost £40bn a year. And the demand for increases in large and expensive parts of the welfare state are becoming irresistible. In reality our state runs a significant structural deficit that we have not fixed.
Private sector borrowing. Encouraged by over low interest rates for a decade, our economy lives off credit spending like a heroin addict on smack. In both cases it usually does not end well.
Productivity. Reflecting serious deficiencies in education, training and investment, recent improvements notwithstanding.
Housing. You cannot invite several million immigrants to work in your economy without a massive housing program. If you do you end up in the mess we are in right now.
Infrastructure. One of the underlying causes of poor productivity but also a major problem in an overcrowded island (generating huge costs) with the demands of current spending on available budgets.
It is of course concerning how little attention these are all getting but Brexit is a side issue.
These subjects are getting next to no attention because some ideological lunatics are determined to press ahead with their mad hobbyhorse as the absolute top priority for the indefinite future.
A 'mad hobbyhorse' that people voted for, you mean?
But, surely, it is Brexit which is stopping the government thinking about all these things let along coming up with sensible solutions?
And, indeed, Brexit may well make much of these matters worse. Eg the trade deficit. Making it harder to trade with the EU is not really going to help, is it?
I hope not but I fear so.
Anyway, bye. Off to listen now rather than opine......
It is the incompetence of our political class that means we have Brexit paralysis, not the process itself. We have seen the same in Scotland where generations of politicians have obsessed with constitutional arrangements instead of doing the day job.
Sloppy thinking. Brexit is inherently navel-gazing, and the incompetence of our political class was and is a known constraint.
You are close to claiming that Brexit is perfect in theory but just hasn’t been implemented properly.
Nope. I am simply saying that Brexit will have almost no detectable effect (in the event of a good deal) or an absolutely minimal effect (in the event of a poor deal). Either way everything on my list and John M's point about the inability of our politicians to make a decision will have much more impact on how our economy performs.
On your point that Brexit will have a non detectable effect, not a single economist alive agrees with you.
I mean, even Patrick “Close down the North” Minford predicts an effect, albeit with the wrong sign.
These are the economists who are forecasting that the economy would be 5% smaller in 15 years time when they can't get growth in the current year right? So far, since the vote, we have had growth of 1.9%, then 1.8% (it will be revised up in due course) and next month we will be told that growth this year will be around 1.9% again. When are we supposed to be seeing these effects?
For a start, the forecasts are relative levels of growth, rather than absolute. And I would guess that you'd see significant effects post rather than pre Brexit.
Growth rates compared to our continental partners would probably be a fair indication of outcomes, since you can only run the experiment once.
These subjects are getting next to no attention because some ideological lunatics are determined to press ahead with their mad hobbyhorse as the absolute top priority for the indefinite future.
And because another bunch of ideological lunatics are equally obsessed with stopping them. You used to call the EU a second order problem Alastair. I agree.
It is a second order problem. It's a second order problem consuming all the energies of government for the indefinite future. It's the most appalling example of prioritisation undertaken by a government in living memory (and arguably since Henry VIII let his libido set foreign and religious policy).
But, surely, it is Brexit which is stopping the government thinking about all these things let along coming up with sensible solutions?
And, indeed, Brexit may well make much of these matters worse. Eg the trade deficit. Making it harder to trade with the EU is not really going to help, is it?
I hope not but I fear so.
Anyway, bye. Off to listen now rather than opine......
It is the incompetence of our political class that means we have Brexit paralysis, not the process itself. We have seen the same in Scotland where generations of politicians have obsessed with constitutional arrangements instead of doing the day job.
Sloppy thinking. Brexit is inherently navel-gazing, and the incompetence of our political class was and is a known constraint.
You are close to claiming that Brexit is perfect in theory but just hasn’t been implemented properly.
Nope. I am simply saying that Brexit will have almost no detectable effect (in the event of a good deal) or an absolutely minimal effect (in the event of a poor deal). Either way everything on my list and John M's point about the inability of our politicians to make a decision will have much more impact on how our economy performs.
On your point that Brexit will have a non detectable effect, not a single economist alive agrees with you.
I mean, even Patrick “Close down the North” Minford predicts an effect, albeit with the wrong sign.
These are the economists who are forecasting that the economy would be 5% smaller in 15 years time when they can't get growth in the current year right? So far, since the vote, we have had growth of 1.9%, then 1.8% (it will be revised up in due course) and next month we will be told that growth this year will be around 1.9% again. When are we supposed to be seeing these effects?
For a start, the forecasts are relative levels of growth, rather than absolute. And I would guess that you'd see significant effects post rather than pre Brexit.
Growth rates compared to our continental partners would probably be a fair indication of outcomes, since you can only run the experiment once.
Its probably the best indicator we will have, I agree. But it will be argued about forever because there are so many confounding factors.
Comments
It's madness.
The country is going to the dogs.
Arguably the greatest action movie ever made, and now the greatest Christmas movie ever made, too. Bruce Willis’ John McClane may seem like an unlikely Santa Claus – he doesn’t have enough hair for one – but what better Christmas present is there than the gift of terrorists getting taken down as they try to take Nakatomi Plaza hostage during a Christmas party in order to carry out an elaborate theft? Not for Empire readers the cutesy Christmas trees of other Christmas movies, or the sight of people in ill-advised knitwear drinking eggnog. For you guys, nothing says deck the halls like jumping off a roof tied to a fire hose, and nothing says season of goodwill like a machine gun. Ho ho ho.
There is no way that would be acceptable to the House of Commons or the Tory Party. It will not happen.
:: Confirms in writing that the defamatory statement will not be repeated in any form;
:: Tweets an apology and asks followers to retweet it;
:: Makes a donation to a charity of Mr Corbyn's choice in lieu of damages;
It is undoubtedly the case that the North Sea has been a drag on Scottish performance over the last few years and it is encouraging that despite that employment is (just) still higher than 12 months ago but the trends are not great and making Scotland the most heavily taxed part of the UK is just bloody stupid.
Amazon are going to do an adaptation of 'Consider Phlebas'
A great role model.
I'd draw a diagram but my unicorns are appalling.
His uncle put shagging before the country.
Even if we discount his Nazism, the male Royals are degenerates aren’t they.
By the way, passive rule taking and the lack of sovereignty that comes with "Norway" is a MASSIVE issue for me. That's why I support EU membership and think William has logic on his side. I don't think the bulk of Leavers are all that bothered by sovereignty. On balance, I believe Norway is the most likely outcome.
I could envisage a Norway Minus where Freedom of Movement has limited constraints in exchange for somewhat lower level access to the Single Market, probably in services.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43146331
If only it were the Amalgamated Union of Fishfryers......
https://twitter.com/WigToday/status/966332806560436225
One of tomorrow's by-elections has been cancelled by injunction after a judge ruled that a councillor who wished to retract a (forward-dated?) resignation could do so. I think there's more to it than meets the eye, but clearly a surprise.
Not a good night to be a legal officer in Wigan Council I suspect.....
(they're not appealing)
Nonetheless...Culture novels. Yummy. I love 'em all.
2017 GE in London:
Con 33.1% (vice 34% in this poll)
Lab: 54.5% (vice 53% in this poll)
LD: 8.8% (vice 8% in this poll)
(Source https://data.london.gov.uk/apps_and_analysis/the-2017-general-election-the-numbers-behind-the-result/ )
This chimes with the feeling we've been in a holding pattern ever since.
http://bit.ly/2HxaZvQ
Article XA
Article X+1
Why?
He wasn't all bad.
2016 election:
Steve Jones Independent Network 1200
David Hurst Labour Party 1123
Thomas Keith Miller UK Independence Party (UKIP) 438
Margaret Mary Winstanley The Conservative Party Candidate 161
Spoilt Ballot Papers 9
Electorate: 8734
% Poll: 33.56
Ah, there's no pedant like a British pedant. Makes me proud.
May still crap I see......
This was the case for the majority of 2010 - 2015 - its not an unusual state of affairs.
Oooh-wee, it’s Paul Thomas Anderson’s best since There Will Be Blood. Daniel Day Lewis is a genius, Lesley Manville *must* get the Supporting Actress Oscar, and newcomer Vicky Krieps is sublime. And the Johnny Greenwood score? Wow.
Just because people are highly educated does not mean that (a) they have any common-sense or (b) any knowledge of history.
I think that is rather more likely that, by comparison with May and the likes of JRM/Boris/Davis/Fox and other loons, Labour sounds more normal, more in tune with what most people are bothered about and appears to have come up with some answers, however rubbish they may turn out to be in practice.
The fault is entirely with the Tories who are trashing their economic reputation, generally painting themselves into a corner and coming across as the sort of person you do not want to find yourself sitting next to on a long train journey.
The Trade deficit. In the longer run very little will have as big an impact on the standard of living of our children. Inevitably none of our politicians even seem to want to talk about it.
Public sector borrowing. 10 years after the last recession we are still borrowing almost £40bn a year. And the demand for increases in large and expensive parts of the welfare state are becoming irresistible. In reality our state runs a significant structural deficit that we have not fixed.
Private sector borrowing. Encouraged by over low interest rates for a decade, our economy lives off credit spending like a heroin addict on smack. In both cases it usually does not end well.
Productivity. Reflecting serious deficiencies in education, training and investment, recent improvements notwithstanding.
Housing. You cannot invite several million immigrants to work in your economy without a massive housing program. If you do you end up in the mess we are in right now.
Infrastructure. One of the underlying causes of poor productivity but also a major problem in an overcrowded island (generating huge costs) with the demands of current spending on available budgets.
It is of course concerning how little attention these are all getting but Brexit is a side issue.
Disraeli, Churchill, FDR, JFK, Lloyd George, Clinton and of course John Major being examples.
So actually, yes, Brexit is the biggest show in town.
And, indeed, Brexit may well make much of these matters worse. Eg the trade deficit. Making it harder to trade with the EU is not really going to help, is it?
I hope not but I fear so.
Anyway, bye. Off to listen now rather than opine......
It’s a very bad thing, as we saw in the 1930s.
You are close to claiming that Brexit is perfect in theory but just hasn’t been implemented properly.
I mean, even Patrick “Close down the North” Minford predicts an effect, albeit with the wrong sign.
Democracy - ain't it great.
And I would guess that you'd see significant effects post rather than pre Brexit.
Growth rates compared to our continental partners would probably be a fair indication of outcomes, since you can only run the experiment once.