Is February the 26th the day Labour stopped being a serious party? Here we are, voters, how about this for a terrific wheeze?
We leave the EU and then negotiate, on their terms, to stay in a customs union that we want. We'll have to accept F.O.M and all the other rules they insist on. Or, perhaps, as old Bonehead believes, they will be so grateful, they will give us more opt-outs. Even if Barnier wanted to, it wouldn't be allowed.
I know they think the voters, and leavers in particular, are stupid, but come on..
They have set out a position. As they did in the GE, where they saw that it did them no harm at all.
cf Tories.
It didn't win them power.
So no "harm" - but no point either.
Indeed it didn’t win them power but it drew people to them and they did better than anyone thought. In that sense it was a good move.
Long may Labour continue with these "good moves" that keep them from power.....
As a thought experiment, assume that the idea of arming teachers in US schools is introduced. How long after its implementation do you think it would be before there was a mass shooting in a school by a teacher with a government-supplied weapon?
Rare - once every 20 years or so maybe.
There are over 3 million teachers in the US. I’m sure they have their share of troubled souls.
I would imagine you could get a decent estimate by looking at number of school shootings perpetrated by teachers and then adding on a % based on the fact that they are now more likely since they have guns to hand.
People do tend to grow out of being twats to some extent (doesn't always happen, of course). Make it a rule that armed teachers are in the 35-50 age group, so they are relatively mature but their eyesight is intact.
The problem is, though, that lots of shooters commit suicide (Columbine) or turn out to have had suicide plans which they failed to carry out. If it were me I'd much rather be shot and killed by someone else than by myself and this is quite common - "suicide by cop" - so armed teachers might be an attraction rather than deterrent.
And if the shooter takes a kid as a human shield and walks with that kid in front of him, virtually no armed teacher would try and take a shot that risks them killing that kid.
I see Liam Fox is accusing British business of false consciousness today. That’s very Marxist of him. No wonder business is abandoning the Tories!
Business isn’t “abandoning the Tories”! Not with Corbyn as the alternative.
There really is a great deal of nonsense and hyperbole on these threads.
Business is no longer in love with the Tories and that is an issue. The Tory core base is becoming narrower and leading the party to defeat at the next election not from corbyn being good but Tories being bad. Like England rugby the Tories are stuck with the wrong game plan and can't adapt it.
Is February the 26th the day Labour stopped being a serious party? Here we are, voters, how about this for a terrific wheeze?
We leave the EU and then negotiate, on their terms, to stay in a customs union that we want. We'll have to accept F.O.M and all the other rules they insist on. Or, perhaps, as old Bonehead believes, they will be so grateful, they will give us more opt-outs. Even if Barnier wanted to, it wouldn't be allowed.
I know they think the voters, and leavers in particular, are stupid, but come on..
They have set out a position. As they did in the GE, where they saw that it did them no harm at all.
cf Tories.
It didn't win them power.
So no "harm" - but no point either.
Indeed it didn’t win them power but it drew people to them and they did better than anyone thought. In that sense it was a good move.
Long may Labour continue with these "good moves" that keep them from power.....
You don't (in my opinion) give enough credence to just how difficult and all-consuming it is to move from a system of government massively overseen by Brussels, to one which is significantly less so. On one hand, you have a set of EU negotiators with essentially two aims: a) milk as much from the UK as they can, to plug their budget gap caused by their second largest contributor leaving and b) deliver a deal to which no other EU country will say "You know what, that would do us too...."
On the other hand you have a Government with an admittedly self-inflicted gunshot wound to the feet, trying to weave a way through to deliver a people's verdict that many elected politicians are very, very snooty about, tried to stop, are trying to stop - and have been complicit in decades of binding us tightly into the EU, supposedly so as to make it impossible to have ever come about. Add toys-out-the-pram hissy fits on one side and an almost religious fervour to escape Brussels clutches on the other.
And then add a narrow - but big enough - initial mandate for the process and a tiny Parliamentary majority on a good day, and stalemate on a bad one.
And THEN add in grave consequences for the economy of delivering a bad deal - and even worse consequences for democracy of not delivering Brexit at all.
I don't think you could say it is sleep-walking to disaster. With that set of conflicting elements to meld together in a little over a year, I doubt there is very much sleep at the heart of government.
Oh, I know it's difficult. But it's being made many times more difficult than it should be by the likes of JRM and May's non-existent leadership.
Even the worst projections of Project Fear are naught compared to the damage an incompetent government (or Corbvynite one) could cause the economy. The government should be driving the country forwards, with Brexit as a side-issue, rather than letting Brexit consume it.
TBF, that's not May's fault. It's the fault of the hard-line Europhobes such as JRM who are holding her party to ransom. And to a lesser extent, and more recently, the Europhiles.
I'd feel much better about the end-result of Brexit if the government was actually displaying competent leadership in other areas. But it isn't. Brexit is everything.
And that's why JRM et al should be whipped out of the country that he knows little of, and cares little about.
anecdata alert from my games night group as we were discussing politics while we played board games last night
The perceived wisdom was that mp's were better informed than us, knew the ins and outs of things better due to access to information. With the arrival of the internet and better access to information of what mp's say and do it has become clear to us ( the games group) that actually mp's haven't a clue about most of the things they pass legislation on. We are mostly in IT. Maybe this has a lot to do with voter disillusion
Parliament's only role is to pass legislation. It cannot direct the executive to negotiate on terms that it finds preferable. If May comes back with a treaty that requires legislation (it will) they can reject it, but they cannot insist on the Government joining a customs union. If they don't like the Government then Parliament can of course try to replace them with a different Government. Clearly, there is not a majority for this.
It is not about ignoring Parliament, it is about following the actual constitutional powers of each body. Therefore, May should be able to treat and CU amendment as advisory. I do not doubt however that the UKSC will be keen to intervene once more.
Mr. Archer, it's vaguely amusing that the likes of Maugham wish to treat the electorate's decision as advisory, and the political class' meddling as binding (all in the name of democracy, you understand...).
As a thought experiment, assume that the idea of arming teachers in US schools is introduced. How long after its implementation do you think it would be before there was a mass shooting in a school by a teacher with a government-supplied weapon?
There is the "stand your ground" law in Florida to consider as well.
Parliament's only role is to pass legislation. It cannot direct the executive to negotiate on terms that it finds preferable. If May comes back with a treaty that requires legislation (it will) they can reject it, but they cannot insist on the Government joining a customs union. If they don't like the Government then Parliament can of course try to replace them with a different Government. Clearly, there is not a majority for this.
It is not about ignoring Parliament, it is about following the actual constitutional powers of each body. Therefore, May should be able to treat and CU amendment as advisory. I do not doubt however that the UKSC will be keen to intervene once more.
As you say only the Government can negotiate the deal and the detail. At this stage Parliament might agree broad brush principles - but as we saw yesterday with Anna Soubry's reaction to the Corbyn speech voting for the same amendment on some theoretical customs union may not actually mean they agree with what that amendment ultimately means in practice.
The Government might not be able to negotiate a customs union arrangement that is acceptable - so could say it tried but couldn't deliver.
Corbyn also seems to want the UK to be in the customs union but to have s seat at the table when the Commission negotiates future trade deals with third countries. The EU doesn't allow Turkey to do that - why is it assumed we will be allowed to have a meaningful say?
On topic this might make even the staunchest Tory Remainer advocate bombing Bruxelles.
Sinn Fein is under intense pressure to rip up its century-old policy of not voting in parliament to defeat Theresa May’s plans to pull Britain out of the EU’s customs union.
In a public challenge to republicans, Leo Varadkar, the Irish prime minister, called on the party to take its seats in Westminster to “make things better for Ireland”. His comments were backed by Brendan Howlin, leader of the opposition Labour Party, who said it was time for Sinn Fein to “step up to the plate and defend the interests of the island of Ireland”.
Sinn Fein has never taken up seats in Westminster since its first MPs were elected in 1917. They still refuse to swear allegiance to the Queen and do not recognise the legitimacy of parliament’s rule over Northern Ireland.
The party has come under growing pressure in the Republic to reverse its stance. It has seven MPs who have the right to vote in the House of Commons. If they were to take their seats Mrs May’s majority would be cut to four, even with the support of the DUP.
Under those circumstances the government would almost certainly find it impossible to overturn rebel Tory amendments that would commit the UK to remaining in a customs union. Sinn Fein’s votes would also be important when parliament is called on to ratify any eventual deal with the EU.
As a thought experiment, assume that the idea of arming teachers in US schools is introduced. How long after its implementation do you think it would be before there was a mass shooting in a school by a teacher with a government-supplied weapon?
There is the "stand your ground" law in Florida to consider as well.
Yet another issue is that these teachers would be tasked with shooting their own pupils, in order to save others, because that is the group that perpetrates school shootings.
Is February the 26th the day Labour stopped being a serious party? Here we are, voters, how about this for a terrific wheeze?
We leave the EU and then negotiate, on their terms, to stay in a customs union that we want. We'll have to accept F.O.M and all the other rules they insist on. Or, perhaps, as old Bonehead believes, they will be so grateful, they will give us more opt-outs. Even if Barnier wanted to, it wouldn't be allowed.
I know they think the voters, and leavers in particular, are stupid, but come on..
They have set out a position. As they did in the GE, where they saw that it did them no harm at all.
cf Tories.
It didn't win them power.
So no "harm" - but no point either.
Indeed it didn’t win them power but it drew people to them and they did better than anyone thought. In that sense it was a good move.
Long may Labour continue with these "good moves" that keep them from power.....
You are Nick Timothy and I claim my £5.
Harsh, if you think I had a hand in the 2017 Manifesto!!
Mr. Observer, that's a charitable description. Fox is incompetent and Boris isn't fit to be in the Cabinet.
This is the antithesis of the period when Alexander died and his empire was torn apart because there were too many capable and intelligent men all vying for leadership.
Several years of not doing much on education would be a definite bonus. The last ten years have been disastrous one way and another, from BSF to the chaos over the new exams to rising rolls and tight budgets.
A period of calm would help very considerably.
There's some evidence that promising more money to schools was a big vote winner at the last election. Given that the Tories plan to continue cuts - I wouldn't be surprised if education played an even larger role at the next election.
Well it's those kids who will have to finance and repay all this debt when they grow up - so they might as well benefit from the borrowing which they will have to repay.
We spend twice as much on debt interest now than on schools.
Do the Sinn Fein MPs have enough fingers to cross to make pledging fealty to Her Majesty less painful? Would make the parliamentary arithmetic more interesting though...
Boris. Radio 4. What a cretin. We managed to electronically apply tariffs between Camden and Islington therefore we can do between Northern and Southern Ireland.
On topic this might make even the staunchest Tory Remainer advocate bombing Bruxelles.
Sinn Fein is under intense pressure to rip up its century-old policy of not voting in parliament to defeat Theresa May’s plans to pull Britain out of the EU’s customs union.
In a public challenge to republicans, Leo Varadkar, the Irish prime minister, called on the party to take its seats in Westminster to “make things better for Ireland”. His comments were backed by Brendan Howlin, leader of the opposition Labour Party, who said it was time for Sinn Fein to “step up to the plate and defend the interests of the island of Ireland”.
Sinn Fein has never taken up seats in Westminster since its first MPs were elected in 1917. They still refuse to swear allegiance to the Queen and do not recognise the legitimacy of parliament’s rule over Northern Ireland.
The party has come under growing pressure in the Republic to reverse its stance. It has seven MPs who have the right to vote in the House of Commons. If they were to take their seats Mrs May’s majority would be cut to four, even with the support of the DUP.
Under those circumstances the government would almost certainly find it impossible to overturn rebel Tory amendments that would commit the UK to remaining in a customs union. Sinn Fein’s votes would also be important when parliament is called on to ratify any eventual deal with the EU.
Do Camden residents have to smuggle craft beers and flat whites across the border from Islington?
What Boris seems to have overlooked is that Camden and Islington are fully and permanently aligned regulatorily inside the UK’s single market and customs union.
I don't get this. On one hand Brexit is THE issue where to dissent is to be an unpatriotic traitor. On the other hand its not that important an issue for people to cross the floor and vote with Labour/Sinn Fein.
Stockholm syndrome can be intense. But there must be a limit to the amount to which Remain voters can be labelled traitors, saboteurs and mutineers before they jump ship.
I do get the impression that the flow of denigration does seem to be one way with the remarkably silly implication that Remainers are less patriotic. Speaking of bull shit, I see that Trump has just said that if he had been at the Florida school he would, armed or not, have charged in to confront the gunman.
'Mrs May has some very dangerous waters to navigate. Her speech this week could be crucial.'
Yes. Theresa needs to make the speech of her life. If we get yet another string of turgid pseudo-sentences then I can imagine the Tories panicking and mounting a coup, especially after Jezza's guileful intervention yesterday. I want Theresa to bring a tear to my eye - through the sheer awe of her penetrating rhetoric and intellectual might.
As a thought experiment, assume that the idea of arming teachers in US schools is introduced. How long after its implementation do you think it would be before there was a mass shooting in a school by a teacher with a government-supplied weapon?
You could probably get a rough idea from the number of serious assaults carried out by teachers on their charges.
Off topic: 4" of snow must have been enough to close our local schools - kids sledging in the field in front of our house. I await the farmer turning up to tell them to bugger off.
Do the Sinn Fein MPs have enough fingers to cross to make pledging fealty to Her Majesty less painful? Would make the parliamentary arithmetic more interesting though...
(Snip)
I know little of the characters involved in NI politics. But I did make the point the other day that of the six current Sinn Fein MPs, three are 'young', and two have lived longer under the Good Friday Agreement than before it.
The attitude of the young who have spent most of their adult lives in the curious peace they have over there, might be very different to that of the old guard.
Or p'haps not.
But Sinn Fein have put up Órfhlaith Begley as the candidate for West Tyrone. She's 26. The end of the Old Guard?
If the EU insists that clearing of euro-denominated products cannot occur in London that could also rise to questions as to whether euro-clearing can occur anywhere outside of the EU, including in the United States. This could lead to other countries considering whether to adopt similar policies regarding clearing of products in their own currencies.
Off topic: 4" of snow must have been enough to close our local schools - kids sledging in the field in front of our house. I await the farmer turning up to tell them to bugger off.
Where is this snow? Just emailed my granddaughteras follows 'We’ve had a liitle bit of snow; not enough to make a snowball in the garden, and defintely not enough, unless we collected from the whole of our smal town to make a snowman, though!'
Off topic: 4" of snow must have been enough to close our local schools - kids sledging in the field in front of our house. I await the farmer turning up to tell them to bugger off.
Where is this snow? Just emailed my granddaughteras follows 'We’ve had a liitle bit of snow; not enough to make a snowball in the garden, and defintely not enough, unless we collected from the whole of our smal town to make a snowman, though!'
The Yorkshire Dales is a carpet of white. Looks beautiful. I might think differently tomorrow when I have to travel to Manchester!
F1: one more reason to dislike the halo [from the BBC livefeed]: Renault’s Carlos Sainz did, though, come up with a new observation after driving in the rain in the afternoon. “When it started raining a bit, you could not see the rain on the visor. The halo was not allowing the rain drops to go in the visor so you could not really see if it was raining a lot, (just) feeling it in your hands.
"This kind of rain that sometimes to us drivers really bother us as you don’t know if you can push 100% or not, you just had to guess it and see how much rain it was, as our visor was completely dry and outside it was raining - a bit tricky there.”
"ormer senior civil servant Martin Donnelly is taking up a role as a senior adviser at the owner of Teneo Blue Rubicon.
Sir Martin spent six years as permanent secretary at the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills before becoming the first permanent secretary at the Department for International Trade. He retired from the civil service in March 2017.
He has now sought permission from the Advisory Committee on Business Appointments (Acoba) to take up the part-time role with Teneo Holdings which will see him working in the UK and overseas.
Teneo was founded in June 2011 by Declan Kelly, Doug Band and Paul Keary. The firm is based in New York and its UK lobbying clout is concentrated in Teneo Blue Rubicon, known as TBR in the industry. Teneo acquired 225-strong Blue Rubicon in 2015.
In 2016, Teneo hired former Number 10 communications director Craig Oliver as a senior managing director, with a role providing “strategic advice” to international companies on a range of issues including Brexit.
A senior source at Teneo Blue Rubicon said Sir Martin would be working in the UK and internationally. "He will do no direct lobbying of the UK Government in any way as part of this role in line with the Acoba restrictions. But he will be working with Teneo Blue Rubicon as well as Teneo globally," said the source.
According to Acoba, Sir Martin has "advised that he does not expect to the have contact with the UK government" in the new role. He has been given the green light to take up the role in accordance with the standard rules on government business appointments."
“The former boss of Liam Fox’s international trade department has warned that life outside the EU single market is like swapping a three-course meal for a packet of crisps.”
I don't get this. On one hand Brexit is THE issue where to dissent is to be an unpatriotic traitor. On the other hand its not that important an issue for people to cross the floor and vote with Labour/Sinn Fein.
Can't be both...
It's all so complicated I still haven't worked out what I am betraying.
On topic the Tory coalition splinters the moment Labour is led by someone a bit more centrist and sans the back story of Corbyn.
Which won't be before Brexit has happened..... And I still can't see where the appetite to fight on - on either side - will come from once the series of fudges and accommodations and payments and understandings that will constitute the final deal is put in place. "Hey guys, how about we all keep punching ourselves in the face for a few more years - whaddya say?"
On topic this might make even the staunchest Tory Remainer advocate bombing Bruxelles.
Sinn Fein is under intense pressure to rip up its century-old policy of not voting in parliament to defeat Theresa May’s plans to pull Britain out of the EU’s customs union.
In a public challenge to republicans, Leo Varadkar, the Irish prime minister, called on the party to take its seats in Westminster to “make things better for Ireland”. His comments were backed by Brendan Howlin, leader of the opposition Labour Party, who said it was time for Sinn Fein to “step up to the plate and defend the interests of the island of Ireland”.
Sinn Fein has never taken up seats in Westminster since its first MPs were elected in 1917. They still refuse to swear allegiance to the Queen and do not recognise the legitimacy of parliament’s rule over Northern Ireland.
The party has come under growing pressure in the Republic to reverse its stance. It has seven MPs who have the right to vote in the House of Commons. If they were to take their seats Mrs May’s majority would be cut to four, even with the support of the DUP.
Under those circumstances the government would almost certainly find it impossible to overturn rebel Tory amendments that would commit the UK to remaining in a customs union. Sinn Fein’s votes would also be important when parliament is called on to ratify any eventual deal with the EU.
I’d also recommend the superb Jazz exhibition at Two Temple Place (very close to Temple Tube and free entry). Plus you get to enjoy at the house, which (according to the Observer) is one of “hidden gems” of London
I’d also recommend the superb Jazz exhibition at Two Temple Place (very close to Temple Tube and free entry). Plus you get to enjoy at the house, which (according to the Observer) is one of “hidden gems” of London
Yes, can't see it happening. Think people from other parties urging it on them will make it less, not more likely.
It's a problem more in Eire than in Northern Ireland as it allows all the other Eire parties to pin any pain caused by the Irish Border issue on Sinn Fein.
Mind you its a complete no win scenario for Sinn Fein. The only way they can escape this mess is to turn up and lose the vote. Anything else and the blame is always going to be pointed at them.
Yes, can't see it happening. Think people from other parties urging it on them will make it less, not more likely.
They are also a party which wants a United Ireland. If taking up their seats would bring that about eg by ushering in a Corbyn government - and how much does he care about the Unionists? - I can see them doing it.
Whether Ireland would want to be united without the consent of the people of Northern Ireland is quite another matter. But I can’t see that point bothering Sinn Feinn.
All those Brexiteers talking of ripping up the GFA are playing with fire........disgraceful.
I yield to no-one in my general dislike of much of the EU but the way some Brexiteers are pursuing their obsession is reminiscent of nothing so much as, well, Marxism.
On topic this might make even the staunchest Tory Remainer advocate bombing Bruxelles.
Sinn Fein is under intense pressure to rip up its century-old policy of not voting in parliament to defeat Theresa May’s plans to pull Britain out of the EU’s customs union.
In a public challenge to republicans, Leo Varadkar, the Irish prime minister, called on the party to take its seats in Westminster to “make things better for Ireland”. His comments were backed by Brendan Howlin, leader of the opposition Labour Party, who said it was time for Sinn Fein to “step up to the plate and defend the interests of the island of Ireland”.
Sinn Fein has never taken up seats in Westminster since its first MPs were elected in 1917. They still refuse to swear allegiance to the Queen and do not recognise the legitimacy of parliament’s rule over Northern Ireland.
The party has come under growing pressure in the Republic to reverse its stance. It has seven MPs who have the right to vote in the House of Commons. If they were to take their seats Mrs May’s majority would be cut to four, even with the support of the DUP.
Under those circumstances the government would almost certainly find it impossible to overturn rebel Tory amendments that would commit the UK to remaining in a customs union. Sinn Fein’s votes would also be important when parliament is called on to ratify any eventual deal with the EU.
OK folks, please help me out here. The DUP want a frictionless border on the island of Ireland. Being in "a" Customs Union would facilitate this. The DUP are dead-set against a Customs Union, and insist that they will vote with the government against the CU amendment.
“The former boss of Liam Fox’s international trade department has warned that life outside the EU single market is like swapping a three-course meal for a packet of crisps.”
Too many three course meals have made his analogies flabby.....
Mr. Archer, it's vaguely amusing that the likes of Maugham wish to treat the electorate's decision as advisory, and the political class' meddling as binding (all in the name of democracy, you understand...).
"The likes of Maugham", including English law and the constitution....
Too much emphasis is being put on commentator's personal views on Jeremy Corbyn. You may very well think that as he is a Terrorist Commie Spy (allegedly) no-one would ever vote for him regardless of the issue at hand or the alternative.
I challenge the basis and logic of that rationale. If Brexit is an issue where to dissent is to be a traitor then voting with an alleged traitor is less of a barrier. If dissent makes you unpatriotic then voting with a man claimed to be unpatriotic makes you bedfellows.
The idiocy of the ConKIP argument is that it makes a nosepeg vote for Corbyn less of a problem. And as the issue of Brexit really is pivotal enough to force newspapers to print photos of Tory traitors, having people hold their nose and vote for the long term greater good isn't completely crazy.
OK folks, please help me out here. The DUP want a frictionless border on the island of Ireland. Being in "a" Customs Union would facilitate this. The DUP are dead-set against a Customs Union, and insist that they will vote with the government against the CU amendment.
Does not compute?!?
They sound like even more fervent brexiteers than Jacob Rees Mogg...
Does the Minister agree that it is about time the Government demonstrated a “no surrender” attitude to the EU bureaucrats who try to blackmail us and bully us over flights, passenger duty and everything else? Stand up to them, man! Stand up to the EU, and let us get on with leaving it
OK folks, please help me out here. The DUP want a frictionless border on the island of Ireland. Being in "a" Customs Union would facilitate this. The DUP are dead-set against a Customs Union, and insist that they will vote with the government against the CU amendment.
Does not compute?!?
DUP opposed to a NI-only CU (ie customs in the Irish Sea)
OK folks, please help me out here. The DUP want a frictionless border on the island of Ireland. Being in "a" Customs Union would facilitate this. The DUP are dead-set against a Customs Union, and insist that they will vote with the government against the CU amendment.
Does not compute?!?
DUP opposed to a NI-only CU (ie customs in the Irish Sea)
But that's not what is being proposed in the amendment. As I say, I'm confused by their position.
Bad day for the Johnson family.Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson has proved himself to be a prat yet again-and yet he remains 9-2 2nd fav in the next Tory leader market with PP (fwiw I make him around a 25-1 chance so is worth laying on the exchanges at a current price of around 8-1).Meanwhile,my 100-1 outsider bet,brother Joe,has exposed the cronyism at the heart of this government over the Toby Young appointment.The report of the Commissioner for Public Appointments is well worth a read but all I'm left with is the familiar feeling of a screwed up/ripped up betting slip.
Yes, can't see it happening. Think people from other parties urging it on them will make it less, not more likely.
It's also pretty pathetic from remainers they are so desperate to join up with Sinn Fein.
People need to decide whether Sinn Fein are evil terrorists in thin disguise (as evidenced by obvious nostalgia for the IRA) or latter-day peacemakers who have responsibly put the past behind them (as evidenced by DUP-SF coalition). They can't really be both, and in most minds including their own I think they're gradually migrating from the one to the other. But still can't see them taking seats in Westminster.
They are also a party which wants a United Ireland. If taking up their seats would bring that about eg by ushering in a Corbyn government - and how much does he care about the Unionists? - I can see them doing it.
Corbyn would offer them absolutely anything that was in the very considerable gift of the Prime Minister.
Yes, can't see it happening. Think people from other parties urging it on them will make it less, not more likely.
It's also pretty pathetic from remainers they are so desperate to join up with Sinn Fein.
People need to decide whether Sinn Fein are evil terrorists in thin disguise (as evidenced by obvious nostalgia for the IRA) or latter-day peacemakers who have responsibly put the past behind them (as evidenced by DUP-SF coalition). They can't really be both, and in most minds including their own I think they're gradually migrating from the one to the other. But still can't see them taking seats in Westminster.
The DUP know which side of the line they consider SF to sit.
OK folks, please help me out here. The DUP want a frictionless border on the island of Ireland. Being in "a" Customs Union would facilitate this. The DUP are dead-set against a Customs Union, and insist that they will vote with the government against the CU amendment.
Does not compute?!?
DUP opposed to a NI-only CU (ie customs in the Irish Sea)
But that's not what is being proposed in the amendment. As I say, I'm confused by their position.
Yes, can't see it happening. Think people from other parties urging it on them will make it less, not more likely.
It's also pretty pathetic from remainers they are so desperate to join up with Sinn Fein.
People need to decide whether Sinn Fein are evil terrorists in thin disguise (as evidenced by obvious nostalgia for the IRA) or latter-day peacemakers who have responsibly put the past behind them (as evidenced by DUP-SF coalition). They can't really be both, and in most minds including their own I think they're gradually migrating from the one to the other. But still can't see them taking seats in Westminster.
They can easily be both, because AIUI Sinn Fein is as broad a church as (say) the Labour Party. There will be many in the old guard who were heavily involved in the Troubles, and some of the younger members much less so.
This is why their putting forwards a 26-year old woman as a candidate in West Tyrone is interesting. As you say, they *might* be migrating from one to the other. But as long as the old guard are there, the 'evil terrorists' tag still applies IMO.
OK folks, please help me out here. The DUP want a frictionless border on the island of Ireland. Being in "a" Customs Union would facilitate this. The DUP are dead-set against a Customs Union, and insist that they will vote with the government against the CU amendment.
Does not compute?!?
DUP opposed to a NI-only CU (ie customs in the Irish Sea)
Yes - I thought they would be okay with the whole of the UK staying in the customs union, since it doesn't introduce any break with the mainland.
The point is:why did those remain voters vote Tory?
And the answer to that is the problem for Labour.
They aren't Remainers who voted Tory. They are Tories who voted Remain. People like our very own TSE.
And Anna Soubry.
I would put Soubry in a different category - Tories who are Eurofanatics. But even in Anna's case, her Eurishness would never be sufficient to stop her being a Tory.
The point is:why did those remain voters vote Tory?
And the answer to that is the problem for Labour.
They aren't Remainers who voted Tory. They are Tories who voted Remain. People like our very own TSE.
And Anna Soubry.
I would put Soubry in a different category - Tories who are Eurofanatics. But even in Anna's case, her Eurishness would never be sufficient to stop her being a Tory.
My point. Look at her voting record on everything else not EU, and it doesn't exactly scream Corbynista!
According to Boris and Foxy Fox WTO would be marvellous. According to the CBI, IoD, HMRC, and every major manufacturer and food retailer/wholesaler/manufacturer WTO means we're fucked.
I expect industry to hold on to see how this vote in parliament goes. If its clear that (a) the EU have once again told the government to swivel over their cake strategy and (b) the government don't care its lost the vote over remaining in the CU, thats the point where big industry shrugs its shoulders and implements the survival plan.
We won't have to wait for WTO Brexit to see how bad it is. Industry has been explicit that it will start to insulate itself against that disaster as soon as it appears to be the most likely solution. Its apparently fine for the Daily Blackshirt to call Tory MPs Traitors. Will it do the same to Honda? HMRC? The pharaceutical and chemicals industries? Sainsbury's?
The splat of bullshit against the wall of reality. If we go down that rabbit hole all options are viable, including big swings of public opinion, the IoD advocating a vote against the Tories, the resurrection of Blair and Cameron of joint leaders of a new centre party...
I generally vote Conservative (though have voted most ways), live in a safe Conservative seat, and somewhat reluctantly voted Remain in the referendum. The *only* things keeping me even remotely considering voting Conservative are:
*) Corbyn. *) Cable is leading the Lib Dems down the plughole of irrelevance.
Everything else about the current Conservative Party is a massive turn-off. If there was an independent candidate I liked, they'd get my vote.
There is no positive reason for me to vote Conservative, only negative ones away from the others.
From a lot earlier this morning (and edited for length): I agree 100% with all of the above. If the Labour offered a credible alternative to leaving the EU on WTO terms I would vote for them. This would be very damaging to my personal finances, but for the country - the country which my children are growing up in - I'd hold my nose and do it.
Massive complacency to assume JJ and I are alone in feeling like this, and to assume that the Tory polling will hold purely because of Corbyn.
Angela Merkel has been a political disaster. The German chancellor has long been the darling of the pro-European media. In November 2015, The Economist called her “the indispensable European.” A month later, the Financial Times named her its “person of the year.” Time magazine proclaimed her “chancellor of the free world.”
These were extraordinary misjudgments. For the plaudits were raining down on a woman who had, just months before, made the single biggest error in the history of the postwar German republic.
Mr. Freggles, apologies for the tardy reply, been otherwise occupied.
There are matters for the Executive, and matters for the Legislature. Negotiating is a matter for the Executive. The Legislature had its say when it agreed to hold the referendum and to abide by the result. Would it be agitating against the Executive if Remain had won?
There are those seeking to get us the worst deal to facilitate a second referendum and compel the electorate by presenting them with a gerrymandered choice to remain in the EU.
OK folks, please help me out here. The DUP want a frictionless border on the island of Ireland. Being in "a" Customs Union would facilitate this. The DUP are dead-set against a Customs Union, and insist that they will vote with the government against the CU amendment.
Does not compute?!?
DUP opposed to a NI-only CU (ie customs in the Irish Sea)
But that's not what is being proposed in the amendment. As I say, I'm confused by their position.
They did a deal to support the government on Brexit
Yes, can't see it happening. Think people from other parties urging it on them will make it less, not more likely.
It's also pretty pathetic from remainers they are so desperate to join up with Sinn Fein.
People need to decide whether Sinn Fein are evil terrorists in thin disguise (as evidenced by obvious nostalgia for the IRA) or latter-day peacemakers who have responsibly put the past behind them (as evidenced by DUP-SF coalition). They can't really be both, and in most minds including their own I think they're gradually migrating from the one to the other. But still can't see them taking seats in Westminster.
Takeaway the backing for and justification of violence and how much difference is there between the SDLP and Sinn Fein.
The SDLP, of course, is Labour's sister party in Northern Ireland. Or was.
The point is:why did those remain voters vote Tory?
And the answer to that is the problem for Labour.
They aren't Remainers who voted Tory. They are Tories who voted Remain. People like our very own TSE.
And Anna Soubry.
I would put Soubry in a different category - Tories who are Eurofanatics. But even in Anna's case, her Eurishness would never be sufficient to stop her being a Tory.
My point. Look at her voting record on everything else not EU, and it doesn't exactly scream Corbynista!
Comments
F1 livefeed for Testing Day 2: Test Harder, is here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/formula1/43190405
Even the worst projections of Project Fear are naught compared to the damage an incompetent government (or Corbvynite one) could cause the economy. The government should be driving the country forwards, with Brexit as a side-issue, rather than letting Brexit consume it.
TBF, that's not May's fault. It's the fault of the hard-line Europhobes such as JRM who are holding her party to ransom. And to a lesser extent, and more recently, the Europhiles.
I'd feel much better about the end-result of Brexit if the government was actually displaying competent leadership in other areas. But it isn't. Brexit is everything.
And that's why JRM et al should be whipped out of the country that he knows little of, and cares little about.
The perceived wisdom was that mp's were better informed than us, knew the ins and outs of things better due to access to information. With the arrival of the internet and better access to information of what mp's say and do it has become clear to us ( the games group) that actually mp's haven't a clue about most of the things they pass legislation on. We are mostly in IT. Maybe this has a lot to do with voter disillusion
It is not about ignoring Parliament, it is about following the actual constitutional powers of each body. Therefore, May should be able to treat and CU amendment as advisory. I do not doubt however that the UKSC will be keen to intervene once more.
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/968401316384071680
https://generationbrexit.org/blogpost/498224
The Government might not be able to negotiate a customs union arrangement that is acceptable - so could say it tried but couldn't deliver.
Corbyn also seems to want the UK to be in the customs union but to have s seat at the table when the Commission negotiates future trade deals with third countries. The EU doesn't allow Turkey to do that - why is it assumed we will be allowed to have a meaningful say?
Two big exhibitions in London with a single ticket
https://www.royalacademy.org.uk/page/charles-i-charles-ii-joint-tickets-cake-break
Sinn Fein is under intense pressure to rip up its century-old policy of not voting in parliament to defeat Theresa May’s plans to pull Britain out of the EU’s customs union.
In a public challenge to republicans, Leo Varadkar, the Irish prime minister, called on the party to take its seats in Westminster to “make things better for Ireland”. His comments were backed by Brendan Howlin, leader of the opposition Labour Party, who said it was time for Sinn Fein to “step up to the plate and defend the interests of the island of Ireland”.
Sinn Fein has never taken up seats in Westminster since its first MPs were elected in 1917. They still refuse to swear allegiance to the Queen and do not recognise the legitimacy of parliament’s rule over Northern Ireland.
The party has come under growing pressure in the Republic to reverse its stance. It has seven MPs who have the right to vote in the House of Commons. If they were to take their seats Mrs May’s majority would be cut to four, even with the support of the DUP.
Under those circumstances the government would almost certainly find it impossible to overturn rebel Tory amendments that would commit the UK to remaining in a customs union. Sinn Fein’s votes would also be important when parliament is called on to ratify any eventual deal with the EU.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/take-commons-seats-and-defend-ireland-sinn-fein-is-urged-hc5p08x9r
This is the antithesis of the period when Alexander died and his empire was torn apart because there were too many capable and intelligent men all vying for leadership.
We spend twice as much on debt interest now than on schools.
Boris. Radio 4. What a cretin. We managed to electronically apply tariffs between Camden and Islington therefore we can do between Northern and Southern Ireland.
Wazzock
... the 3.2 million SENSIBLE Tories who voted remain.
Can't be both...
Their thuggish players assaulted innocent England players before the match then eye gouged them during the match.
I’d rather lose than win like that.
#WeStillHaveYourOil
Yes. Theresa needs to make the speech of her life. If we get yet another string of turgid pseudo-sentences then I can imagine the Tories panicking and mounting a coup, especially after Jezza's guileful intervention yesterday. I want Theresa to bring a tear to my eye - through the sheer awe of her penetrating rhetoric and intellectual might.
The attitude of the young who have spent most of their adult lives in the curious peace they have over there, might be very different to that of the old guard.
Or p'haps not.
But Sinn Fein have put up Órfhlaith Begley as the candidate for West Tyrone. She's 26. The end of the Old Guard?
We had one mass school shooting and we passed strong laws very quickly to minimise the chances of it ever happening again.
Yes thank-you for that. Might well go for that one - free cake too! Cheers
http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/02/27/brexit-threatens-citys-future-in-european-payment-systems/
https://twitter.com/NickCohen4/status/968418905252392960
Renault’s Carlos Sainz did, though, come up with a new observation after driving in the rain in the afternoon. “When it started raining a bit, you could not see the rain on the visor. The halo was not allowing the rain drops to go in the visor so you could not really see if it was raining a lot, (just) feeling it in your hands.
"This kind of rain that sometimes to us drivers really bother us as you don’t know if you can push 100% or not, you just had to guess it and see how much rain it was, as our visor was completely dry and outside it was raining - a bit tricky there.”
https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/968394367819026432
"ormer senior civil servant Martin Donnelly is taking up a role as a senior adviser at the owner of Teneo Blue Rubicon.
Sir Martin spent six years as permanent secretary at the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills before becoming the first permanent secretary at the Department for International Trade. He retired from the civil service in March 2017.
He has now sought permission from the Advisory Committee on Business Appointments (Acoba) to take up the part-time role with Teneo Holdings which will see him working in the UK and overseas.
Teneo was founded in June 2011 by Declan Kelly, Doug Band and Paul Keary. The firm is based in New York and its UK lobbying clout is concentrated in Teneo Blue Rubicon, known as TBR in the industry. Teneo acquired 225-strong Blue Rubicon in 2015.
In 2016, Teneo hired former Number 10 communications director Craig Oliver as a senior managing director, with a role providing “strategic advice” to international companies on a range of issues including Brexit.
A senior source at Teneo Blue Rubicon said Sir Martin would be working in the UK and internationally. "He will do no direct lobbying of the UK Government in any way as part of this role in line with the Acoba restrictions. But he will be working with Teneo Blue Rubicon as well as Teneo globally," said the source.
According to Acoba, Sir Martin has "advised that he does not expect to the have contact with the UK government" in the new role. He has been given the green light to take up the role in accordance with the standard rules on government business appointments."
http://www.thenational.scot/news/16049709.nicola-sturgeon-to-call-vote-on-independence-in-2018-says-david-mundell/?ref=mr&lp=2
“The former boss of Liam Fox’s international trade department has warned that life outside the EU single market is like swapping a three-course meal for a packet of crisps.”
I’d also recommend the superb Jazz exhibition at Two Temple Place (very close to Temple Tube and free entry). Plus you get to enjoy at the house, which (according to the Observer) is one of “hidden gems” of London
https://twitter.com/Barristerblog/status/968148918457569280
He couldn’t have blinded our brave Nathan Hughes.
Mind you its a complete no win scenario for Sinn Fein. The only way they can escape this mess is to turn up and lose the vote. Anything else and the blame is always going to be pointed at them.
Whether Ireland would want to be united without the consent of the people of Northern Ireland is quite another matter. But I can’t see that point bothering Sinn Feinn.
All those Brexiteers talking of ripping up the GFA are playing with fire........disgraceful.
I yield to no-one in my general dislike of much of the EU but the way some Brexiteers are pursuing their obsession is reminiscent of nothing so much as, well, Marxism.
Does not compute?!?
I challenge the basis and logic of that rationale. If Brexit is an issue where to dissent is to be a traitor then voting with an alleged traitor is less of a barrier. If dissent makes you unpatriotic then voting with a man claimed to be unpatriotic makes you bedfellows.
The idiocy of the ConKIP argument is that it makes a nosepeg vote for Corbyn less of a problem. And as the issue of Brexit really is pivotal enough to force newspapers to print photos of Tory traitors, having people hold their nose and vote for the long term greater good isn't completely crazy.
https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/968425628168007681
Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP)
https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2018-02-07
Does the Minister agree that it is about time the Government demonstrated a “no surrender” attitude to the EU bureaucrats who try to blackmail us and bully us over flights, passenger duty and everything else? Stand up to them, man! Stand up to the EU, and let us get on with leaving it
Or "Soubry terms", as I like to call them....
https://publicappointmentscommissioner.independent.gov.uk/report-appointments-board-office-students/
And the answer to that is the problem for Labour.
This is why their putting forwards a 26-year old woman as a candidate in West Tyrone is interesting. As you say, they *might* be migrating from one to the other. But as long as the old guard are there, the 'evil terrorists' tag still applies IMO.
They didn't do so.
Clearly views differ:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/dup-wants-out-of-eu-customs-union-says-ian-paisley-jnr-1.3124135
I expect industry to hold on to see how this vote in parliament goes. If its clear that (a) the EU have once again told the government to swivel over their cake strategy and (b) the government don't care its lost the vote over remaining in the CU, thats the point where big industry shrugs its shoulders and implements the survival plan.
We won't have to wait for WTO Brexit to see how bad it is. Industry has been explicit that it will start to insulate itself against that disaster as soon as it appears to be the most likely solution. Its apparently fine for the Daily Blackshirt to call Tory MPs Traitors. Will it do the same to Honda? HMRC? The pharaceutical and chemicals industries? Sainsbury's?
The splat of bullshit against the wall of reality. If we go down that rabbit hole all options are viable, including big swings of public opinion, the IoD advocating a vote against the Tories, the resurrection of Blair and Cameron of joint leaders of a new centre party...
Massive complacency to assume JJ and I are alone in feeling like this, and to assume that the Tory polling will hold purely because of Corbyn.
https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/968431974984638465
Angela Merkel has been a political disaster. The German chancellor has long been the darling of the pro-European media. In November 2015, The Economist called her “the indispensable European.” A month later, the Financial Times named her its “person of the year.” Time magazine proclaimed her “chancellor of the free world.”
These were extraordinary misjudgments. For the plaudits were raining down on a woman who had, just months before, made the single biggest error in the history of the postwar German republic.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2018/02/26/angela-merkel-about-pay-for-all-her-blunders/gpuSOeFGvGt0Mf6SUDrDyM/story.html
There are matters for the Executive, and matters for the Legislature. Negotiating is a matter for the Executive. The Legislature had its say when it agreed to hold the referendum and to abide by the result. Would it be agitating against the Executive if Remain had won?
There are those seeking to get us the worst deal to facilitate a second referendum and compel the electorate by presenting them with a gerrymandered choice to remain in the EU.
The SDLP, of course, is Labour's sister party in Northern Ireland. Or was.
A lovely idea. But it is not on offer from the EU.
What are the Cons going to ask for?
That's what happens when you only listen to the metropolitan middle class who now run the Party.