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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » PaddyPower makes it 3/1 that TMay won’t survive beyond the end

SystemSystem Posts: 5,841
edited February 28 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » PaddyPower makes it 3/1 that TMay won’t survive beyond the end of March

A spokesman for the bookie said: “Theresa May’s time as PM has been a constant case of one step forward followed by several steps backwards – and that’s just her political viewpoints. The pressure is ramping up on May, and the odds are shortening that she’ll be ousted, prompting another General Election and – likely – another Brexit Referendum.”

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 4,133
    edited February 28
    First! But I cannot think of a suitable metaphor....
  • Depends on the wording. I can see Mrs May losing a vote of confidence in March.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 17,799
    I'd want to be on the other side of all those bets....
  • Plans to shaft Northern Ireland by Boris does make that DUP bet look interesting.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 5,488
    Make June the end of May - Lab slogan 2017, Con slogan 2018.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 6,241
    Is there no time limit on the DUP bet? Is it until the end of the parliament?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 6,241
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Make June the end of May - Lab slogan 2017, Con slogan 2018.

    March of the May-kers?
  • BromBrom Posts: 956
    3/1 Theresa May to be removed as Conservative Leader in Q1 2018

    That's a 10/1 shot at best
  • Brom said:

    3/1 Theresa May to be removed as Conservative Leader in Q1 2018

    That's a 10/1 shot at best

    By the 31st March - really
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 24,392
    All terrible bets.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 41,640
    edited February 28

    Plans to shaft Northern Ireland by Boris does make that DUP bet look interesting.

    Boris' new support for a limited hard border between NI and the Republic would be fine by the DUP
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 4,133
    edited February 28
    FPT:

    DavidL said:

    Wonder if the market thinks 'no deal' now more likely?

    That's a fall of just under a cent? Seems an appropriate response.
    And fits the mood music on a day where Toy'R'Us (UK) has gone into liquidation and Maplin appears to be about to do the same.

    We're dooommmed Capt Mainwaring! We're all dooommmed!!!! :open_mouth:
    That is nothing to do with Brexit but the advance of the internet and on line sales. It is just going to get worse for the high street and the blame, if you want to apportion blame, is with every on line shopper
    Mr G - if you read closely, you will see that I never mentioned Brexit
  • Well it was 17 days from Dave announcing his resignation to Theresa May becoming Tory leader, 19 days to her becoming PM.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 19,097
    FPT.
    welshowl said:

    welshowl said:

    Why should they care about UK public opinion?

    Because in 10, 15, 20, 100 years time we are still going to be neighbours.

    The EU is repeating its apparent fixation with a 2- 4 year time frame and not giving (seemingly) much thought to the long term. Do they want "Canada" 21 miles from their "USA", similar but different, cooperative, friendly, supportive, or do they want a sort of Japan/China, spiky, suspicious, antagonistic relationship?
    You think the mandate of 2016 will last a hundred years? That's bordering on insane.
    "100" was a long term figure I plucked out of the air to illustrate a general point. Who knows where we will be in 100 years time, or 25 for that matter, of course.

    However, the EU deep down are pretty good at tactics to be sure, but I cannot fathom their strategic goal? Surely they either, in general terms want a "Canada" to continue my analogy, or they wish to convince a large majority of us of the worth of the EU "Project" so we settle down to being good Europeans in their eyes, (the latter being something similar to your view perhaps?). I cant see that saying you want to economically snip off a bit of the UK does either for them across the broad generality of UK voters.

    Insert "Corsica" into their text instead of "NI" and replace "ECJ" with "Supreme Court in London" and see how that would play in France?

    But it's a negotiation. Long way to go.
    Just think about what you're saying for a minute. You think the friendly neighbour option is a "Canada" 21 miles from their "USA". You completely ignore the fact that Northern Ireland is 0 miles from "them", yet at the same time you regard unity between NI and GB as non-negotiable. Where does Ireland fit in your worldview?

    You should perhaps instead ask yourself what kind of relationship you want with Ireland in 10, 15, 20 or 100 years' time.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 22,135
    edited February 28
    I think the EU could disintegrate without the UK as a member. Anyone agree?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 41,640
    edited February 28
    Given we have to agree a deal with the EU by October to get any transition period post Brexit let alone make progress on a FTA if May goes this year and there is a general election it makes hard Brexit very likely.

  • HYUFD said:

    Plans to shaft Northern Ireland by Boris does make that DUP bet look interesting.

    Boris' new support for a limited hard border between NI and the Republic would be fine by the DUP
    But would not be fine to the people of Norn Iron, a majority of whom voted Remain

    Do the DUP want to lose seats?
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 2,825

    FPT.

    welshowl said:

    welshowl said:

    Why should they care about UK public opinion?

    Because in 10, 15, 20, 100 years time we are still going to be neighbours.

    The EU is repeating its apparent fixation with a 2- 4 year time frame and not giving (seemingly) much thought to the long term. Do they want "Canada" 21 miles from their "USA", similar but different, cooperative, friendly, supportive, or do they want a sort of Japan/China, spiky, suspicious, antagonistic relationship?
    You think the mandate of 2016 will last a hundred years? That's bordering on insane.
    "100" was a long term figure I plucked out of the air to illustrate a general point. Who knows where we will be in 100 years time, or 25 for that matter, of course.

    However, the EU deep down are pretty good at tactics to be sure, but I cannot fathom their strategic goal? Surely they either, in general terms want a "Canada" to continue my analogy, or they wish to convince a large majority of us of the worth of the EU "Project" so we settle down to being good Europeans in their eyes, (the latter being something similar to your view perhaps?). I cant see that saying you want to economically snip off a bit of the UK does either for them across the broad generality of UK voters.

    Insert "Corsica" into their text instead of "NI" and replace "ECJ" with "Supreme Court in London" and see how that would play in France?

    But it's a negotiation. Long way to go.
    Just think about what you're saying for a minute. You think the friendly neighbour option is a "Canada" 21 miles from their "USA". You completely ignore the fact that Northern Ireland is 0 miles from "them", yet at the same time you regard unity between NI and GB as non-negotiable. Where does Ireland fit in your worldview?

    You should perhaps instead ask yourself what kind of relationship you want with Ireland in 10, 15, 20 or 100 years' time.
    One that supports ROI as the EU collapses in turmoil, chaos and acrimony?
  • FPT.

    welshowl said:

    welshowl said:

    Why should they care about UK public opinion?

    Because in 10, 15, 20, 100 years time we are still going to be neighbours.

    The EU is repeating its apparent fixation with a 2- 4 year time frame and not giving (seemingly) much thought to the long term. Do they want "Canada" 21 miles from their "USA", similar but different, cooperative, friendly, supportive, or do they want a sort of Japan/China, spiky, suspicious, antagonistic relationship?
    You think the mandate of 2016 will last a hundred years? That's bordering on insane.
    "100" was a long term figure I plucked out of the air to illustrate a general point. Who knows where we will be in 100 years time, or 25 for that matter, of course.

    However, the EU deep down are pretty good at tactics to be sure, but I cannot fathom their strategic goal? Surely they either, in general terms want a "Canada" to continue my analogy, or they wish to convince a large majority of us of the worth of the EU "Project" so we settle down to being good Europeans in their eyes, (the latter being something similar to your view perhaps?). I cant see that saying you want to economically snip off a bit of the UK does either for them across the broad generality of UK voters.

    Insert "Corsica" into their text instead of "NI" and replace "ECJ" with "Supreme Court in London" and see how that would play in France?

    But it's a negotiation. Long way to go.
    Just think about what you're saying for a minute. You think the friendly neighbour option is a "Canada" 21 miles from their "USA". You completely ignore the fact that Northern Ireland is 0 miles from "them", yet at the same time you regard unity between NI and GB as non-negotiable. Where does Ireland fit in your worldview?

    You should perhaps instead ask yourself what kind of relationship you want with Ireland in 10, 15, 20 or 100 years' time.
    Same question applies to the EU even if it still exists in 20 years time
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 41,640

    HYUFD said:

    Plans to shaft Northern Ireland by Boris does make that DUP bet look interesting.

    Boris' new support for a limited hard border between NI and the Republic would be fine by the DUP
    But would not be fine to the people of Norn Iron, a majority of whom voted Remain

    Do the DUP want to lose seats?
    A majority of NI seats were won by the DUP after the Leave vote and after the DUP backed Brexit, including leaving the single market and customs union
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 13,280

    FPT.

    welshowl said:

    welshowl said:

    Why should they care about UK public opinion?

    Because in 10, 15, 20, 100 years time we are still going to be neighbours.

    The EU is repeating its apparent fixation with a 2- 4 year time frame and not giving (seemingly) much thought to the long term. Do they want "Canada" 21 miles from their "USA", similar but different, cooperative, friendly, supportive, or do they want a sort of Japan/China, spiky, suspicious, antagonistic relationship?
    You think the mandate of 2016 will last a hundred years? That's bordering on insane.
    "100" was a long term figure I plucked out of the air to illustrate a general point. Who knows where we will be in 100 years time, or 25 for that matter, of course.

    However, the EU deep down are pretty good at tactics to be sure, but I cannot fathom their strategic goal? Surely they either, in general terms want a "Canada" to continue my analogy, or they wish to convince a large majority of us of the worth of the EU "Project" so we settle down to being good Europeans in their eyes, (the latter being something similar to your view perhaps?). I cant see that saying you want to economically snip off a bit of the UK does either for them across the broad generality of UK voters.

    Insert "Corsica" into their text instead of "NI" and replace "ECJ" with "Supreme Court in London" and see how that would play in France?

    But it's a negotiation. Long way to go.
    Just think about what you're saying for a minute. You think the friendly neighbour option is a "Canada" 21 miles from their "USA". You completely ignore the fact that Northern Ireland is 0 miles from "them", yet at the same time you regard unity between NI and GB as non-negotiable. Where does Ireland fit in your worldview?

    You should perhaps instead ask yourself what kind of relationship you want with Ireland in 10, 15, 20 or 100 years' time.
    And what kind of relationship we had with Ireland 100 years ago.
  • FPT:

    DavidL said:

    Wonder if the market thinks 'no deal' now more likely?

    That's a fall of just under a cent? Seems an appropriate response.
    And fits the mood music on a day where Toy'R'Us (UK) has gone into liquidation and Maplin appears to be about to do the same.

    We're dooommmed Capt Mainwaring! We're all dooommmed!!!! :open_mouth:
    That is nothing to do with Brexit but the advance of the internet and on line sales. It is just going to get worse for the high street and the blame, if you want to apportion blame, is with every on line shopper
    Mr G - if you read closely, you will see that I never mentioned Brexit
    Sorry - I did not mean to infer you did, my mistake. But hope you agree otherwise
  • volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 1,992
    Definitely prefer to be a layer rather than a player in all of these markets.Very poor value.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 11,267
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Plans to shaft Northern Ireland by Boris does make that DUP bet look interesting.

    Boris' new support for a limited hard border between NI and the Republic would be fine by the DUP
    But would not be fine to the people of Norn Iron, a majority of whom voted Remain

    Do the DUP want to lose seats?
    A majority of NI seats were won by the DUP after the Leave vote and after the DUP backed Brexit, including leaving the single market and customs union
    If there’s one part of the UK where Brexit, as Brexit, is well down the voters list of ‘thing’ it’s NornI. “Union’ there means with the RoI.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 1,328
    Watching that odious clown Boris shuffle uncomfortably in his seat as the once-useless Corbyn gently teased the insanity of his position was deeply embarrassing. How did this birdbrain become Foreign Secretary? May, who appointed him, should hang her head in shame. This country is a laughing stock – thanks to the witless imbeciles on the Tory front bench.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 1,663

    FPT:

    DavidL said:

    Wonder if the market thinks 'no deal' now more likely?

    That's a fall of just under a cent? Seems an appropriate response.
    And fits the mood music on a day where Toy'R'Us (UK) has gone into liquidation and Maplin appears to be about to do the same.

    We're dooommmed Capt Mainwaring! We're all dooommmed!!!! :open_mouth:
    That is nothing to do with Brexit but the advance of the internet and on line sales. It is just going to get worse for the high street and the blame, if you want to apportion blame, is with every on line shopper
    Mr G - if you read closely, you will see that I never mentioned Brexit
    Sorry - I did not mean to infer you did, my mistake. But hope you agree otherwise
    Imply. I only mention it to cockblock Morris Dancer.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 2,825
    https://www.ft.com/content/eafd4ece-1c8a-11e8-956a-43db76e69936
    Labour says will not accept further donations from Max Mosley

    This raises a question as to whether Max Mosley is a fit and proper person to fund IMPRESS
  • Dura_Ace said:

    FPT:

    DavidL said:

    Wonder if the market thinks 'no deal' now more likely?

    That's a fall of just under a cent? Seems an appropriate response.
    And fits the mood music on a day where Toy'R'Us (UK) has gone into liquidation and Maplin appears to be about to do the same.

    We're dooommmed Capt Mainwaring! We're all dooommmed!!!! :open_mouth:
    That is nothing to do with Brexit but the advance of the internet and on line sales. It is just going to get worse for the high street and the blame, if you want to apportion blame, is with every on line shopper
    Mr G - if you read closely, you will see that I never mentioned Brexit
    Sorry - I did not mean to infer you did, my mistake. But hope you agree otherwise
    Imply. I only mention it to cockblock Morris Dancer.
    I have no idea what you are talking about or the language you use
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 41,640
    Anazina said:

    Watching that odious clown Boris shuffle uncomfortably in his seat as the once-useless Corbyn gently teased the insanity of his position was deeply embarrassing. How did this birdbrain become Foreign Secretary? May, who appointed him, should hang her head in shame. This country is a laughing stock – thanks to the witless imbeciles on the Tory front bench.

    Boris is the Trump or Berlusconi of Britain, given 1 is POTUS and the other's coalition is set to be the biggest block in the Italian Parliament on Sunday not such a bad place to be
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 6,041
    philiph said:

    https://www.ft.com/content/eafd4ece-1c8a-11e8-956a-43db76e69936
    Labour says will not accept further donations from Max Mosley

    This raises a question as to whether Max Mosley is a fit and proper person to fund IMPRESS

    Why would a XXXX XXXXX XXXXX want to fund a organisation wanting to control the press?

    I just can't fathom it #innocentface
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 17,799
    Chaos out on the Devon lanes today. Half an inch of snow is covering sheet ice. Just spent an hour in conditions which I would describe as Bloody Chilly, helping get vehicles out of a mess of their own making. Fire, ambulance, RAC, recovery wagons - all in our little lane linking nowhere much with nowhere much. Thankfully seems as if no-one is hurt, but the roads are lethal.

    Take care out there all. Better still, stay put.... Now a hot chocolate beckons.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 41,640

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Plans to shaft Northern Ireland by Boris does make that DUP bet look interesting.

    Boris' new support for a limited hard border between NI and the Republic would be fine by the DUP
    But would not be fine to the people of Norn Iron, a majority of whom voted Remain

    Do the DUP want to lose seats?
    A majority of NI seats were won by the DUP after the Leave vote and after the DUP backed Brexit, including leaving the single market and customs union
    If there’s one part of the UK where Brexit, as Brexit, is well down the voters list of ‘thing’ it’s NornI. “Union’ there means with the RoI.
    Which the still Unionist majority of NI clearly oppose
  • philiph said:

    https://www.ft.com/content/eafd4ece-1c8a-11e8-956a-43db76e69936
    Labour says will not accept further donations from Max Mosley

    This raises a question as to whether Max Mosley is a fit and proper person to fund IMPRESS

    So is Watson returning the £500,000 Mosley has given him
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 4,133
    edited February 28

    FPT:

    DavidL said:

    Wonder if the market thinks 'no deal' now more likely?

    That's a fall of just under a cent? Seems an appropriate response.
    And fits the mood music on a day where Toy'R'Us (UK) has gone into liquidation and Maplin appears to be about to do the same.

    We're dooommmed Capt Mainwaring! We're all dooommmed!!!! :open_mouth:
    That is nothing to do with Brexit but the advance of the internet and on line sales. It is just going to get worse for the high street and the blame, if you want to apportion blame, is with every on line shopper
    Mr G - if you read closely, you will see that I never mentioned Brexit
    Sorry - I did not mean to infer you did, my mistake. But hope you agree otherwise
    :+1:
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 1,328
    HYUFD said:

    Plans to shaft Northern Ireland by Boris does make that DUP bet look interesting.

    Boris' new support for a limited hard border between NI and the Republic would be fine by the DUP

    The shift in the brexiteer/neobrexiteer position over the past 18 months is illustrative of their complete lack of pragmatism, wit and imagination.

    Only a fool would leave the single market
    We will leave the single market
    Only a fool would risk the peace process by establishing a hard Irish border
    We will establish a 'limited' hard Irish border

    Next up: we will establish a hard Irish border and crash out on WTO terms.

    Anything – anything – to preserve PURITY!!!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 20,367
    Maybe we should just invade and conquer Eire. That would solve the EU's apparent difficulties and even with our much diminished forces probably wouldn't take more than a few days.

    Or maybe we can finally agree that trying to resolve the status of the Irish border separately from our relationship with the EU generally is simply nuts and that the EU position is completely barking.
    If we have a FTA with the EU what problem exists on the EIre border that does not exist right now and which both sides are quite happy to ignore? The only thing I can think of is third party imports into Eire or the UK. Surely that is just paperwork? And once again exactly the same issue we need to resolve with the rest of the EU?
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 3,463

    FPT.

    welshowl said:

    welshowl said:

    Why should they care about UK public opinion?

    Because in 10, 15, 20, 100 years time we are still going to be neighbours.

    The EU is repeating its apparent fixation with a 2- 4 year time frame and not giving (seemingly) much thought to the long term. Do they want "Canada" 21 miles from their "USA", similar but different, cooperative, friendly, supportive, or do they want a sort of Japan/China, spiky, suspicious, antagonistic relationship?
    You think the mandate of 2016 will last a hundred years? That's bordering on insane.
    "100" was a long term figure I plucked out of the air to illustrate a general point. Who knows where we will be in 100 years time, or 25 for that matter, of course.

    However, the EU deep down are pretty good at tactics to be sure, but I cannot fathom their strategic goal? Surely they either, in general terms want a "Canada" to continue my analogy, or they wish to convince a large majority of us of the worth of the EU "Project" so we settle down to being good Europeans in their eyes, (the latter being something similar to your view perhaps?). I cant see that saying you want to economically snip off a bit of the UK does either for them across the broad generality of UK voters.

    Insert "Corsica" into their text instead of "NI" and replace "ECJ" with "Supreme Court in London" and see how that would play in France?

    But it's a negotiation. Long way to go.
    Just think about what you're saying for a minute. You think the friendly neighbour option is a "Canada" 21 miles from their "USA". You completely ignore the fact that Northern Ireland is 0 miles from "them", yet at the same time you regard unity between NI and GB as non-negotiable. Where does Ireland fit in your worldview?

    You should perhaps instead ask yourself what kind of relationship you want with Ireland in 10, 15, 20 or 100 years' time.
    I'd like a nice friendly constructive one, thank you. But the EU being so (in public) absolutist is not helping me.

    Ireland is miles from anywhere else in the EU out on the NW extremes of Europe. An island off an island. It's not like it's the border between France and Germany in the heart of Europe. A Schodinger's solution is there if both sides give a bit. After all I can't right now load up with a van full of cigarettes in Belfast and drive to Dundalk and sell them, so there's not seamless alignment now.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 65,729
    edited February 28

    philiph said:

    https://www.ft.com/content/eafd4ece-1c8a-11e8-956a-43db76e69936
    Labour says will not accept further donations from Max Mosley

    This raises a question as to whether Max Mosley is a fit and proper person to fund IMPRESS

    Why would a XXXX XXXXX XXXXX want to fund a organisation wanting to control the press?

    I just can't fathom it #innocentface
    Leveson 2 is probably dead in the water now.

    Any supporters of it now will be tarred by the unpleasant views of Max Mosley.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,453
    AndyJS said:

    I think the EU could disintegrate without the UK as a member. Anyone agree?


    The kind of bullying we see from the EU often indicates a desperation and weakness behind the scenes.

    Are they just worried about losing the money, or could it be beginning of the end?

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 17,799

    philiph said:

    https://www.ft.com/content/eafd4ece-1c8a-11e8-956a-43db76e69936
    Labour says will not accept further donations from Max Mosley

    This raises a question as to whether Max Mosley is a fit and proper person to fund IMPRESS

    So is Watson returning the £500,000 Mosley has given him
    Not much luck with his political soul-mates, does Watson..... Perhaps if he weren't quite so keen to see the politics and was somewhat more questioning of his politically opportunisitc chums, he might not look quite such an arsehole.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 41,640
    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    Plans to shaft Northern Ireland by Boris does make that DUP bet look interesting.

    Boris' new support for a limited hard border between NI and the Republic would be fine by the DUP

    The shift in the brexiteer/neobrexiteer position over the past 18 months is illustrative of their complete lack of pragmatism, wit and imagination.

    Only a fool would leave the single market
    We will leave the single market
    Only a fool would risk the peace process by establishing a hard Irish border
    We will establish a 'limited' hard Irish border

    Next up: we will establish a hard Irish border and crash out on WTO terms.

    Anything – anything – to preserve PURITY!!!
    Well given the EU is making it almost impossible to do anything else and deliver full Brexit that may well end up the case
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 1,328

    Dura_Ace said:

    FPT:

    DavidL said:

    Wonder if the market thinks 'no deal' now more likely?

    That's a fall of just under a cent? Seems an appropriate response.
    And fits the mood music on a day where Toy'R'Us (UK) has gone into liquidation and Maplin appears to be about to do the same.

    We're dooommmed Capt Mainwaring! We're all dooommmed!!!! :open_mouth:
    That is nothing to do with Brexit but the advance of the internet and on line sales. It is just going to get worse for the high street and the blame, if you want to apportion blame, is with every on line shopper
    Mr G - if you read closely, you will see that I never mentioned Brexit
    Sorry - I did not mean to infer you did, my mistake. But hope you agree otherwise
    Imply. I only mention it to cockblock Morris Dancer.
    I have no idea what you are talking about or the language you use
    You imply something by what you say.

    I infer something from what you say.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 3,463
    DavidL said:

    Maybe we should just invade and conquer Eire. That would solve the EU's apparent difficulties and even with our much diminished forces probably wouldn't take more than a few days.

    Or maybe we can finally agree that trying to resolve the status of the Irish border separately from our relationship with the EU generally is simply nuts and that the EU position is completely barking.
    If we have a FTA with the EU what problem exists on the EIre border that does not exist right now and which both sides are quite happy to ignore? The only thing I can think of is third party imports into Eire or the UK. Surely that is just paperwork? And once again exactly the same issue we need to resolve with the rest of the EU?

    Quite.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 5,620

    philiph said:

    https://www.ft.com/content/eafd4ece-1c8a-11e8-956a-43db76e69936
    Labour says will not accept further donations from Max Mosley

    This raises a question as to whether Max Mosley is a fit and proper person to fund IMPRESS

    So is Watson returning the £500,000 Mosley has given him
    Do you need to ask? (no)
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 20,367

    Chaos out on the Devon lanes today. Half an inch of snow is covering sheet ice. Just spent an hour in conditions which I would describe as Bloody Chilly, helping get vehicles out of a mess of their own making. Fire, ambulance, RAC, recovery wagons - all in our little lane linking nowhere much with nowhere much. Thankfully seems as if no-one is hurt, but the roads are lethal.

    Take care out there all. Better still, stay put.... Now a hot chocolate beckons.

    Scotland has its first ever red warning today in central Scotland. We are thankfully to the north of that but bus companies and police are already saying get home and stay there.
  • philiph said:

    https://www.ft.com/content/eafd4ece-1c8a-11e8-956a-43db76e69936
    Labour says will not accept further donations from Max Mosley

    This raises a question as to whether Max Mosley is a fit and proper person to fund IMPRESS

    Why would a XXXX XXXXX XXXXX want to fund a organisation wanting to control the press?

    I just can't fathom it #innocentface
    Leveson 2 is probably dead in the water now.

    Any supporters of it now will be tarred by the unpleasant views of Max Mosley.
    And Impress must have had it founded on his money
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 1,328
    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    Plans to shaft Northern Ireland by Boris does make that DUP bet look interesting.

    Boris' new support for a limited hard border between NI and the Republic would be fine by the DUP

    The shift in the brexiteer/neobrexiteer position over the past 18 months is illustrative of their complete lack of pragmatism, wit and imagination.

    Only a fool would leave the single market
    We will leave the single market
    Only a fool would risk the peace process by establishing a hard Irish border
    We will establish a 'limited' hard Irish border

    Next up: we will establish a hard Irish border and crash out on WTO terms.

    Anything – anything – to preserve PURITY!!!
    Well given the EU is making it almost impossible to do anything else and deliver full Brexit that may well end up the case
    The EU is not making it impossible.

    Those who are making impossible are the brexiteers/neobrexiteers who have dropped any notion of compromise. Wake up!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 41,640
    philiph said:

    https://www.ft.com/content/eafd4ece-1c8a-11e8-956a-43db76e69936
    Labour says will not accept further donations from Max Mosley

    This raises a question as to whether Max Mosley is a fit and proper person to fund IMPRESS

    Oswald Mosley was a Labour MP after defecting from the Tories
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 2,825

    philiph said:

    https://www.ft.com/content/eafd4ece-1c8a-11e8-956a-43db76e69936
    Labour says will not accept further donations from Max Mosley

    This raises a question as to whether Max Mosley is a fit and proper person to fund IMPRESS

    So is Watson returning the £500,000 Mosley has given him
    HaHA I think the correct term is:



    Fat Chance(r)!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 19,097
    welshowl said:

    I'd like a nice friendly constructive one, thank you. But the EU being so (in public) absolutist is not helping me.

    Ireland is miles from anywhere else in the EU out on the NW extremes of Europe. An island off an island. It's not like it's the border between France and Germany in the heart of Europe. A Schodinger's solution is there if both sides give a bit. After all I can't right now load up with a van full of cigarettes in Belfast and drive to Dundalk and sell them, so there's not seamless alignment now.

    Ireland is a full member of the EU, not some insignificant protectorate. The border between Ireland and Northern Ireland is longer than the border between France and Germany, and what will make it different in future is that you want to make it an external EU border, equivalent to the border with Belarus.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 1,328
    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    Watching that odious clown Boris shuffle uncomfortably in his seat as the once-useless Corbyn gently teased the insanity of his position was deeply embarrassing. How did this birdbrain become Foreign Secretary? May, who appointed him, should hang her head in shame. This country is a laughing stock – thanks to the witless imbeciles on the Tory front bench.

    Boris is the Trump or Berlusconi of Britain, given 1 is POTUS and the other's coalition is set to be the biggest block in the Italian Parliament on Sunday not such a bad place to be
    I think you mean bloc.

    Or perhaps you do mean block.

    In any case, Boris is a busted flush. A wally. An embarrassment.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 5,869
    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    Plans to shaft Northern Ireland by Boris does make that DUP bet look interesting.

    Boris' new support for a limited hard border between NI and the Republic would be fine by the DUP

    The shift in the brexiteer/neobrexiteer position over the past 18 months is illustrative of their complete lack of pragmatism, wit and imagination.

    Only a fool would leave the single market
    We will leave the single market
    Only a fool would risk the peace process by establishing a hard Irish border
    We will establish a 'limited' hard Irish border

    Next up: we will establish a hard Irish border and crash out on WTO terms.

    Anything – anything – to preserve PURITY!!!
    Well given the EU is making it almost impossible to do anything else and deliver full Brexit that may well end up the case
    The government's position is full of contradictions. These are necessary to keep the Tory party 'united'. We are now at the point where reality is intruding and it will be seen that 'having cake and eating it' is not a realistic policy.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,453
    DavidL said:

    Maybe we should just invade and conquer Eire. That would solve the EU's apparent difficulties and even with our much diminished forces probably wouldn't take more than a few days.

    Or maybe we can finally agree that trying to resolve the status of the Irish border separately from our relationship with the EU generally is simply nuts and that the EU position is completely barking.
    If we have a FTA with the EU what problem exists on the EIre border that does not exist right now and which both sides are quite happy to ignore? The only thing I can think of is third party imports into Eire or the UK. Surely that is just paperwork? And once again exactly the same issue we need to resolve with the rest of the EU?


    The creation of the "Irish Border Question" seems to have been entirely created for the purpose of frustrating Brexit negotiations, and hence Brexit itself.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 41,640
    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    Plans to shaft Northern Ireland by Boris does make that DUP bet look interesting.

    Boris' new support for a limited hard border between NI and the Republic would be fine by the DUP

    The shift in the brexiteer/neobrexiteer position over the past 18 months is illustrative of their complete lack of pragmatism, wit and imagination.

    Only a fool would leave the single market
    We will leave the single market
    Only a fool would risk the peace process by establishing a hard Irish border
    We will establish a 'limited' hard Irish border

    Next up: we will establish a hard Irish border and crash out on WTO terms.

    Anything – anything – to preserve PURITY!!!
    Well given the EU is making it almost impossible to do anything else and deliver full Brexit that may well end up the case
    The EU is not making it impossible.

    Those who are making impossible are the brexiteers/neobrexiteers who have dropped any notion of compromise. Wake up!
    You cannot end free movement and stay in the single market say the EU.

    You cannot have no hard border between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland without regulatory alignment say the EU.

    Hence for Brexiteers there may be no alternative to leaving the single market and a hard Irish border in order to end free movement and ECJ jurisdiction over the UK
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 19,097
    DavidL said:

    Maybe we should just invade and conquer Eire. That would solve the EU's apparent difficulties and even with our much diminished forces probably wouldn't take more than a few days.

    Or maybe we can finally agree that trying to resolve the status of the Irish border separately from our relationship with the EU generally is simply nuts and that the EU position is completely barking.
    If we have a FTA with the EU what problem exists on the EIre border that does not exist right now and which both sides are quite happy to ignore? The only thing I can think of is third party imports into Eire or the UK. Surely that is just paperwork? And once again exactly the same issue we need to resolve with the rest of the EU?

    This is what a border with an FTA looks like. Do you want to help build it?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 19,822
    Sometimes being a bookie must be a really nice relaxing occupation.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 3,463
    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    Plans to shaft Northern Ireland by Boris does make that DUP bet look interesting.

    Boris' new support for a limited hard border between NI and the Republic would be fine by the DUP

    The shift in the brexiteer/neobrexiteer position over the past 18 months is illustrative of their complete lack of pragmatism, wit and imagination.

    Only a fool would leave the single market
    We will leave the single market
    Only a fool would risk the peace process by establishing a hard Irish border
    We will establish a 'limited' hard Irish border

    Next up: we will establish a hard Irish border and crash out on WTO terms.

    Anything – anything – to preserve PURITY!!!
    Well given the EU is making it almost impossible to do anything else and deliver full Brexit that may well end up the case
    The EU is not making it impossible.

    Those who are making impossible are the brexiteers/neobrexiteers who have dropped any notion of compromise. Wake up!
    Ok why doesn't the EU offer us the Liechtenstein deal as a compromise - Single Market and no FOM? Would've romped home at the referendum. Because they get a fit of the vapours that more countries would want it, and we can't be giving people what they want because that would stall the "project".

    What they really fear, is our leaving totally and the world not ending (which it wouldn't despite the Jeremiahs), and representing an attractive plan "B" in due course. when others get pissed off with that lack of democracy.

  • With Mrs May's team having a go at Boris over that letter, perhaps PBers would like the 5/1 on Boris as next out of the cabinet

    https://sports.ladbrokes.com/en-gb/betting/politics/uk/uk-politics/next-cabinet-minister-to-leave/226271370/
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 2,825

    DavidL said:

    Maybe we should just invade and conquer Eire. That would solve the EU's apparent difficulties and even with our much diminished forces probably wouldn't take more than a few days.

    Or maybe we can finally agree that trying to resolve the status of the Irish border separately from our relationship with the EU generally is simply nuts and that the EU position is completely barking.
    If we have a FTA with the EU what problem exists on the EIre border that does not exist right now and which both sides are quite happy to ignore? The only thing I can think of is third party imports into Eire or the UK. Surely that is just paperwork? And once again exactly the same issue we need to resolve with the rest of the EU?

    This is what a border with an FTA looks like. Do you want to help build it?
    Looks like a posy upmarket Dutch Barn. They are easy to build.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 11,267
    edited February 28
    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    Plans to shaft Northern Ireland by Boris does make that DUP bet look interesting.

    Boris' new support for a limited hard border between NI and the Republic would be fine by the DUP

    The shift in the brexiteer/neobrexiteer position over the past 18 months is illustrative of their complete lack of pragmatism, wit and imagination.

    Only a fool would leave the single market
    We will leave the single market
    Only a fool would risk the peace process by establishing a hard Irish border
    We will establish a 'limited' hard Irish border

    Next up: we will establish a hard Irish border and crash out on WTO terms.

    Anything – anything – to preserve PURITY!!!
    Well given the EU is making it almost impossible to do anything else and deliver full Brexit that may well end up the case
    Just maybe we WILL crash out, and the resulting economic chaos is so bad that the Tories struggle to hold Maidenhead and Witham and we crawl back into the EU. And into the Euro and Schengen.
    Hope it’s nowhere near as bad as that but the incompetence currently being displayed by the Government and to a lesser extent the Opposition suggests the possibility.
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,106

    DavidL said:

    Maybe we should just invade and conquer Eire. That would solve the EU's apparent difficulties and even with our much diminished forces probably wouldn't take more than a few days.

    Or maybe we can finally agree that trying to resolve the status of the Irish border separately from our relationship with the EU generally is simply nuts and that the EU position is completely barking.
    If we have a FTA with the EU what problem exists on the EIre border that does not exist right now and which both sides are quite happy to ignore? The only thing I can think of is third party imports into Eire or the UK. Surely that is just paperwork? And once again exactly the same issue we need to resolve with the rest of the EU?


    The creation of the "Irish Border Question" seems to have been entirely created for the purpose of frustrating Brexit negotiations, and hence Brexit itself.

    No, its a result of Ireland defending their own interests.

    Being part of the EU has given them enough power to stand up to the UK rather than having to go along with whatever the UK decides.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 19,097

    DavidL said:

    Maybe we should just invade and conquer Eire. That would solve the EU's apparent difficulties and even with our much diminished forces probably wouldn't take more than a few days.

    Or maybe we can finally agree that trying to resolve the status of the Irish border separately from our relationship with the EU generally is simply nuts and that the EU position is completely barking.
    If we have a FTA with the EU what problem exists on the EIre border that does not exist right now and which both sides are quite happy to ignore? The only thing I can think of is third party imports into Eire or the UK. Surely that is just paperwork? And once again exactly the same issue we need to resolve with the rest of the EU?

    The creation of the "Irish Border Question" seems to have been entirely created for the purpose of frustrating Brexit negotiations, and hence Brexit itself.
    Yes, partition was done with the sole purpose of frustrating Brexit...
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 20,367

    philiph said:

    https://www.ft.com/content/eafd4ece-1c8a-11e8-956a-43db76e69936
    Labour says will not accept further donations from Max Mosley

    This raises a question as to whether Max Mosley is a fit and proper person to fund IMPRESS

    Why would a XXXX XXXXX XXXXX want to fund a organisation wanting to control the press?

    I just can't fathom it #innocentface
    Leveson 2 is probably dead in the water now.

    Any supporters of it now will be tarred by the unpleasant views of Max Mosley.
    The whole thing was made up of unpleasant views and self interest. Good riddance.
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,106

    DavidL said:

    Maybe we should just invade and conquer Eire. That would solve the EU's apparent difficulties and even with our much diminished forces probably wouldn't take more than a few days.

    Or maybe we can finally agree that trying to resolve the status of the Irish border separately from our relationship with the EU generally is simply nuts and that the EU position is completely barking.
    If we have a FTA with the EU what problem exists on the EIre border that does not exist right now and which both sides are quite happy to ignore? The only thing I can think of is third party imports into Eire or the UK. Surely that is just paperwork? And once again exactly the same issue we need to resolve with the rest of the EU?

    The creation of the "Irish Border Question" seems to have been entirely created for the purpose of frustrating Brexit negotiations, and hence Brexit itself.
    Yes, partition was done with the sole purpose of frustrating Brexit...
    There could be a conspiracy theory that the Good Friday Agreement was written in such a way as to frustrate Brexit. Tony Blair was involved with it after all...
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 20,367

    DavidL said:

    Maybe we should just invade and conquer Eire. That would solve the EU's apparent difficulties and even with our much diminished forces probably wouldn't take more than a few days.

    Or maybe we can finally agree that trying to resolve the status of the Irish border separately from our relationship with the EU generally is simply nuts and that the EU position is completely barking.
    If we have a FTA with the EU what problem exists on the EIre border that does not exist right now and which both sides are quite happy to ignore? The only thing I can think of is third party imports into Eire or the UK. Surely that is just paperwork? And once again exactly the same issue we need to resolve with the rest of the EU?


    The creation of the "Irish Border Question" seems to have been entirely created for the purpose of frustrating Brexit negotiations, and hence Brexit itself.

    Gosh, you're so cynical.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 2,825
    edited February 28

    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    Plans to shaft Northern Ireland by Boris does make that DUP bet look interesting.

    Boris' new support for a limited hard border between NI and the Republic would be fine by the DUP

    The shift in the brexiteer/neobrexiteer position over the past 18 months is illustrative of their complete lack of pragmatism, wit and imagination.

    Only a fool would leave the single market
    We will leave the single market
    Only a fool would risk the peace process by establishing a hard Irish border
    We will establish a 'limited' hard Irish border

    Next up: we will establish a hard Irish border and crash out on WTO terms.

    Anything – anything – to preserve PURITY!!!
    Well given the EU is making it almost impossible to do anything else and deliver full Brexit that may well end up the case
    Just maybe we WILL crash out, and the resulting economic chaos is so bad that the Tories struggle to hold Maidenhead and Witham and we crawl back into the EU. And into the Euro and Schengen.
    Hope it’s nowhere near as bad as that but the incompetence currently being displayed by the Government and to a lesser extent the Opposition suggests the possibility.
    If we want to stay we should be in Schengen, Euro etc.
    I can see attractions, logic and advantages with that (as well as some negatives), but it is a tempting offer.
    The only other sensible (some will dispute the use of that word) option is out.
    I would vote as follows:
    1 Full membership, in up to the hilt
    2 Out, and out means out
    3 Staus quo of half in half out (which we are moving from, as it is the worst of all worlds in medium to long term).
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 3,463

    welshowl said:

    I'd like a nice friendly constructive one, thank you. But the EU being so (in public) absolutist is not helping me.

    Ireland is miles from anywhere else in the EU out on the NW extremes of Europe. An island off an island. It's not like it's the border between France and Germany in the heart of Europe. A Schodinger's solution is there if both sides give a bit. After all I can't right now load up with a van full of cigarettes in Belfast and drive to Dundalk and sell them, so there's not seamless alignment now.

    Ireland is a full member of the EU, not some insignificant protectorate. The border between Ireland and Northern Ireland is longer than the border between France and Germany, and what will make it different in future is that you want to make it an external EU border, equivalent to the border with Belarus.
    At no point have I said or implied it's insignificant or a protectorate. I was merely pointing out that geography, in terms of the complete isolation of the border from anywhere else, is actually a help if we all want to turn a few Nelsonian blind eyes. Hell we do now to the fact that there's no de jure border between NI and GB, but given you need to show photo ID to get on a boat of a plane there effectively is. I
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 17,799
    FF43 said:
    Empirical evidence to support raising the voting age to 45......
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 41,640

    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    Plans to shaft Northern Ireland by Boris does make that DUP bet look interesting.

    Boris' new support for a limited hard border between NI and the Republic would be fine by the DUP

    The shift in the brexiteer/neobrexiteer position over the past 18 months is illustrative of their complete lack of pragmatism, wit and imagination.

    Only a fool would leave the single market
    We will leave the single market
    Only a fool would risk the peace process by establishing a hard Irish border
    We will establish a 'limited' hard Irish border

    Next up: we will establish a hard Irish border and crash out on WTO terms.

    Anything – anything – to preserve PURITY!!!
    Well given the EU is making it almost impossible to do anything else and deliver full Brexit that may well end up the case
    Just maybe we WILL crash out, and the resulting economic chaos is so bad that the Tories struggle to hold Maidenhead and Witham and we crawl back into the EU. And into the Euro and Schengen.
    Hope it’s nowhere near as bad as that but the incompetence currently being displayed by the Government and to a lesser extent the Opposition suggests the possibility.
    Most Leave voters did so to end free movement and regain sovereignty, exactly what the EU is frustrating the government from doing and of course 2/3 of constituencies voted Leave.

    Had the Euro and Schengen been on the cards it would have been 90% of constituencies voting Leave
  • HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    Watching that odious clown Boris shuffle uncomfortably in his seat as the once-useless Corbyn gently teased the insanity of his position was deeply embarrassing. How did this birdbrain become Foreign Secretary? May, who appointed him, should hang her head in shame. This country is a laughing stock – thanks to the witless imbeciles on the Tory front bench.

    Boris is the Trump or Berlusconi of Britain, given 1 is POTUS and the other's coalition is set to be the biggest block in the Italian Parliament on Sunday not such a bad place to be
    Johnson's latest incendiary interventions regarding the NI border imply he is totally unsuitable to become PM.I am not sure whether his responses are out of naivety or cynicism. If he does not believe the the ramifications of his statements are anything short of potentially downright dangerous were they come to pass he has no business being FS either!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 11,267
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    Plans to shaft Northern Ireland by Boris does make that DUP bet look interesting.

    Boris' new support for a limited hard border between NI and the Republic would be fine by the DUP

    The shift in the brexiteer/neobrexiteer position over the past 18 months is illustrative of their complete lack of pragmatism, wit and imagination.

    Only a fool would leave the single market
    We will leave the single market
    Only a fool would risk the peace process by establishing a hard Irish border
    We will establish a 'limited' hard Irish border

    Next up: we will establish a hard Irish border and crash out on WTO terms.

    Anything – anything – to preserve PURITY!!!
    Well given the EU is making it almost impossible to do anything else and deliver full Brexit that may well end up the case
    Just maybe we WILL crash out, and the resulting economic chaos is so bad that the Tories struggle to hold Maidenhead and Witham and we crawl back into the EU. And into the Euro and Schengen.
    Hope it’s nowhere near as bad as that but the incompetence currently being displayed by the Government and to a lesser extent the Opposition suggests the possibility.
    Most Leave voters did so to end free movement and regain sovereignty, exactly what the EU is frustrating the government from doing and of course 2/3 of constituencies voted Leave.

    Had the Euro and Schengen been on the cards it would have been 90% of constituencies voting Leave
    I’m looking to the future, not the past.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 19,097
    JonathanD said:

    DavidL said:

    Maybe we should just invade and conquer Eire. That would solve the EU's apparent difficulties and even with our much diminished forces probably wouldn't take more than a few days.

    Or maybe we can finally agree that trying to resolve the status of the Irish border separately from our relationship with the EU generally is simply nuts and that the EU position is completely barking.
    If we have a FTA with the EU what problem exists on the EIre border that does not exist right now and which both sides are quite happy to ignore? The only thing I can think of is third party imports into Eire or the UK. Surely that is just paperwork? And once again exactly the same issue we need to resolve with the rest of the EU?

    The creation of the "Irish Border Question" seems to have been entirely created for the purpose of frustrating Brexit negotiations, and hence Brexit itself.
    Yes, partition was done with the sole purpose of frustrating Brexit...
    There could be a conspiracy theory that the Good Friday Agreement was written in such a way as to frustrate Brexit. Tony Blair was involved with it after all...
    He knew he'd never win a referendum on the Euro outright, so he created the GFA to bind our constitutional status to another EU member state, then allowed mass immigration so that people would vote to leave, resulting in national humiliation and the removal of our opt-outs. Machiavelli had nothing on him.
  • Irish Deputy PM saying just now he is pleased the back stop position is in the draft but the first preference is a free trade agreement - the back stop is not the preferred option.

    Rowing back by the sounds of it
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 20,367

    DavidL said:

    Maybe we should just invade and conquer Eire. That would solve the EU's apparent difficulties and even with our much diminished forces probably wouldn't take more than a few days.

    Or maybe we can finally agree that trying to resolve the status of the Irish border separately from our relationship with the EU generally is simply nuts and that the EU position is completely barking.
    If we have a FTA with the EU what problem exists on the EIre border that does not exist right now and which both sides are quite happy to ignore? The only thing I can think of is third party imports into Eire or the UK. Surely that is just paperwork? And once again exactly the same issue we need to resolve with the rest of the EU?

    This is what a border with an FTA looks like. Do you want to help build it?
    Nah, can't be arsed. Just let them come back and forward like they have done since before the EU was formed.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 1,328

    DavidL said:

    Maybe we should just invade and conquer Eire. That would solve the EU's apparent difficulties and even with our much diminished forces probably wouldn't take more than a few days.

    Or maybe we can finally agree that trying to resolve the status of the Irish border separately from our relationship with the EU generally is simply nuts and that the EU position is completely barking.
    If we have a FTA with the EU what problem exists on the EIre border that does not exist right now and which both sides are quite happy to ignore? The only thing I can think of is third party imports into Eire or the UK. Surely that is just paperwork? And once again exactly the same issue we need to resolve with the rest of the EU?

    The creation of the "Irish Border Question" seems to have been entirely created for the purpose of frustrating Brexit negotiations, and hence Brexit itself.
    Yes, partition was done with the sole purpose of frustrating Brexit...
    It harks back to the potato famine of 1845. They say Phytophthora infestans was introduced into the ecosystem by visionary hardcore Remainers back in the day to stir up nationalist sympathies.
  • With Mrs May's team having a go at Boris over that letter, perhaps PBers would like the 5/1 on Boris as next out of the cabinet

    https://sports.ladbrokes.com/en-gb/betting/politics/uk/uk-politics/next-cabinet-minister-to-leave/226271370/

    Better than the 5/1 on EU Ref in 2018
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,453

    DavidL said:

    Maybe we should just invade and conquer Eire. That would solve the EU's apparent difficulties and even with our much diminished forces probably wouldn't take more than a few days.

    Or maybe we can finally agree that trying to resolve the status of the Irish border separately from our relationship with the EU generally is simply nuts and that the EU position is completely barking.
    If we have a FTA with the EU what problem exists on the EIre border that does not exist right now and which both sides are quite happy to ignore? The only thing I can think of is third party imports into Eire or the UK. Surely that is just paperwork? And once again exactly the same issue we need to resolve with the rest of the EU?

    The creation of the "Irish Border Question" seems to have been entirely created for the purpose of frustrating Brexit negotiations, and hence Brexit itself.
    Yes, partition was done with the sole purpose of frustrating Brexit...

    No, creating it as a separate question to be answered before we even know the future trading relationship with rest of the EU.

    A50 says "the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with [the UK], setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union".

    So pushing the Irish Border question ahead of everything else is a breach of the EU's own process.

  • stevefstevef Posts: 1,044
    I hope these silly predictions are being framed and preserved so we can look at them later. And added to similar predictions of President Hilary Clinton, prime minister Miliband, Theresa May's resignation post election 2017, Theresa May's landslide June 2017, ......and the rest.

    I'm happy for my predictions to be framed and preserved:

    Theresa May still PM at Christmas 2018,
    No general election in 2018,
    No second referendum on EU.
    Jeremy Corbyn will fail to become PM.

    I have every general election result correct since 1970.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 19,974
    AndyJS said:

    I think the EU could disintegrate without the UK as a member. Anyone agree?

    It's possible, especially if they don't start thinking about *why* we voted to leave, as those feelings aren't unique to the UK. So far they've not cared to think about it.

    On the other hand, without our constant complaining and whinging, the EU could become stronger.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 2,645
    DavidL said:

    Maybe we should just invade and conquer Eire. That would solve the EU's apparent difficulties and even with our much diminished forces probably wouldn't take more than a few days.

    Or maybe we can finally agree that trying to resolve the status of the Irish border separately from our relationship with the EU generally is simply nuts and that the EU position is completely barking.
    If we have a FTA with the EU what problem exists on the EIre border that does not exist right now and which both sides are quite happy to ignore? The only thing I can think of is third party imports into Eire or the UK. Surely that is just paperwork? And once again exactly the same issue we need to resolve with the rest of the EU?

    I think past experience is that conquering Ireland is like conquering Afghanistan, more of a long haul than a few days.

    It is quite clear that the governments Brexit strategy (!!) requires a hard border as we will not be in CU or SM. Even an FTA requires a degreedof infrastructure on the border. The DUP just need to suck it up. In addition it probably needs the GFA to go back to the drawing board, Stormont ain't working even apart from Brexit.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 19,822
    This isn't the sort of democracy that Leavers approve of:

  • RobDRobD Posts: 32,586

    This isn't the sort of democracy that Leavers approve of:

    Hasn't that point already been conceded?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 41,640

    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    Watching that odious clown Boris shuffle uncomfortably in his seat as the once-useless Corbyn gently teased the insanity of his position was deeply embarrassing. How did this birdbrain become Foreign Secretary? May, who appointed him, should hang her head in shame. This country is a laughing stock – thanks to the witless imbeciles on the Tory front bench.

    Boris is the Trump or Berlusconi of Britain, given 1 is POTUS and the other's coalition is set to be the biggest block in the Italian Parliament on Sunday not such a bad place to be
    Johnson's latest incendiary interventions regarding the NI border imply he is totally unsuitable to become PM.I am not sure whether his responses are out of naivety or cynicism. If he does not believe the the ramifications of his statements are anything short of potentially downright dangerous were they come to pass he has no business being FS either!
    In the view of an ardent Remainer who he does not need to win a general election
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 41,640

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    Plans to shaft Northern Ireland by Boris does make that DUP bet look interesting.

    Boris' new support for a limited hard border between NI and the Republic would be fine by the DUP

    The shift in the brexiteer/neobrexiteer position over the past 18 months is illustrative of their complete lack of pragmatism, wit and imagination.

    Only a fool would leave the single market
    We will leave the single market
    Only a fool would risk the peace process by establishing a hard Irish border
    We will establish a 'limited' hard Irish border

    Next up: we will establish a hard Irish border and crash out on WTO terms.

    Anything – anything – to preserve PURITY!!!
    Well given the EU is making it almost impossible to do anything else and deliver full Brexit that may well end up the case
    Just maybe we WILL crash out, and the resulting economic chaos is so bad that the Tories struggle to hold Maidenhead and Witham and we crawl back into the EU. And into the Euro and Schengen.
    Hope it’s nowhere near as bad as that but the incompetence currently being displayed by the Government and to a lesser extent the Opposition suggests the possibility.
    Most Leave voters did so to end free movement and regain sovereignty, exactly what the EU is frustrating the government from doing and of course 2/3 of constituencies voted Leave.

    Had the Euro and Schengen been on the cards it would have been 90% of constituencies voting Leave
    I’m looking to the future, not the past.
    It will be almost 40 years before all the over 45s have disappeared from the electorate
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 11,267
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    Plans to shaft Northern Ireland by Boris does make that DUP bet look interesting.

    Boris' new support for a limited hard border between NI and the Republic would be fine by the DUP

    The shift in the brexiteer/neobrexiteer position over the past 18 months is illustrative of their complete lack of pragmatism, wit and imagination.

    Only a fool would leave the single market
    We will leave the single market
    Only a fool would risk the peace process by establishing a hard Irish border
    We will establish a 'limited' hard Irish border

    Next up: we will establish a hard Irish border and crash out on WTO terms.

    Anything – anything – to preserve PURITY!!!
    Well given the EU is making it almost impossible to do anything else and deliver full Brexit that may well end up the case
    Just maybe we WILL crash out, and the resulting economic chaos is so bad that the Tories struggle to hold Maidenhead and Witham and we crawl back into the EU. And into the Euro and Schengen.
    Hope it’s nowhere near as bad as that but the incompetence currently being displayed by the Government and to a lesser extent the Opposition suggests the possibility.
    Most Leave voters did so to end free movement and regain sovereignty, exactly what the EU is frustrating the government from doing and of course 2/3 of constituencies voted Leave.

    Had the Euro and Schengen been on the cards it would have been 90% of constituencies voting Leave
    I’m looking to the future, not the past.
    It will be almost 40 years before all the over 45s have disappeared from the electorate
    We didn’t all vote Leave. Some of us retained a degree of common sense!
  • stevefstevef Posts: 1,044
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    Plans to shaft Northern Ireland by Boris does make that DUP bet look interesting.

    Boris' new support for a limited hard border between NI and the Republic would be fine by the DUP

    The shift in the brexiteer/neobrexiteer position over the past 18 months is illustrative of their complete lack of pragmatism, wit and imagination.

    Only a fool would leave the single market
    We will leave the single market
    Only a fool would risk the peace process by establishing a hard Irish border
    We will establish a 'limited' hard Irish border

    Next up: we will establish a hard Irish border and crash out on WTO terms.

    Anything – anything – to preserve PURITY!!!
    Well given the EU is making it almost impossible to do anything else and deliver full Brexit that may well end up the case
    Just maybe we WILL crash out, and the resulting economic chaos is so bad that the Tories struggle to hold Maidenhead and Witham and we crawl back into the EU. And into the Euro and Schengen.
    Hope it’s nowhere near as bad as that but the incompetence currently being displayed by the Government and to a lesser extent the Opposition suggests the possibility.
    Most Leave voters did so to end free movement and regain sovereignty, exactly what the EU is frustrating the government from doing and of course 2/3 of constituencies voted Leave.

    Had the Euro and Schengen been on the cards it would have been 90% of constituencies voting Leave
    I’m looking to the future, not the past.
    It will be almost 40 years before all the over 45s have disappeared from the electorate
    Won there be new over 45s?
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,453

    This isn't the sort of democracy that Leavers approve of:


    ... and keep putting the issue back to the people until they get it right.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 32,586
    Ah, so it's a second referendum he's after?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 19,097

    This isn't the sort of democracy that Leavers approve of:


    ... and keep putting the issue back to the people until they get it right.

    Wouldn't it be awful no longer to be able to sneer at other countries for "being made to vote twice"?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 13,280
    philiph said:

    DavidL said:

    Maybe we should just invade and conquer Eire. That would solve the EU's apparent difficulties and even with our much diminished forces probably wouldn't take more than a few days.

    Or maybe we can finally agree that trying to resolve the status of the Irish border separately from our relationship with the EU generally is simply nuts and that the EU position is completely barking.
    If we have a FTA with the EU what problem exists on the EIre border that does not exist right now and which both sides are quite happy to ignore? The only thing I can think of is third party imports into Eire or the UK. Surely that is just paperwork? And once again exactly the same issue we need to resolve with the rest of the EU?

    This is what a border with an FTA looks like. Do you want to help build it?
    Looks like a posy upmarket Dutch Barn. They are easy to build.
    Might need a bit of cladding.

    https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6165/6189120962_1f08ce00e1_b.jpg
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 5,869
    RobD said:

    This isn't the sort of democracy that Leavers approve of:

    Hasn't that point already been conceded?
    Only the first one.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 2,645
    stevef said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    Plans to shaft Northern Ireland by Boris does make that DUP bet look interesting.

    Boris' new support for a limited hard border between NI and the Republic would be fine by the DUP

    The shift in the brexiteer/neobrexiteer position over the past 18 months is illustrative of their complete lack of pragmatism, wit and imagination.

    Only a fool would leave the single market
    We will leave the single market
    Only a fool would risk the peace process by establishing a hard Irish border
    We will establish a 'limited' hard Irish border

    Next up: we will establish a hard Irish border and crash out on WTO terms.

    Anything – anything – to preserve PURITY!!!
    Well given the EU is making it almost impossible to do anything else and deliver full Brexit that may well end up the case
    Just maybe we WILL crash out, and the resulting economic chaos is so bad that the Tories struggle to hold Maidenhead and Witham and we crawl back into the EU. And into the Euro and Schengen.
    Hope it’s nowhere near as bad as that but the incompetence currently being displayed by the Government and to a lesser extent the Opposition suggests the possibility.
    Most Leave voters did so to end free movement and regain sovereignty, exactly what the EU is frustrating the government from doing and of course 2/3 of constituencies voted Leave.

    Had the Euro and Schengen been on the cards it would have been 90% of constituencies voting Leave
    I’m looking to the future, not the past.
    It will be almost 40 years before all the over 45s have disappeared from the electorate
    Won there be new over 45s?
    I think the evidence is that cultural attitudes do not change with age the way that political allegiences have in the past.

    Time will tell of course.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 13,280
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Maybe we should just invade and conquer Eire. That would solve the EU's apparent difficulties and even with our much diminished forces probably wouldn't take more than a few days.

    Or maybe we can finally agree that trying to resolve the status of the Irish border separately from our relationship with the EU generally is simply nuts and that the EU position is completely barking.
    If we have a FTA with the EU what problem exists on the EIre border that does not exist right now and which both sides are quite happy to ignore? The only thing I can think of is third party imports into Eire or the UK. Surely that is just paperwork? And once again exactly the same issue we need to resolve with the rest of the EU?

    This is what a border with an FTA looks like. Do you want to help build it?
    Nah, can't be arsed. Just let them come back and forward like they have done since before the EU was formed.
    Taking back control - one open border at a time.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 41,640
    stevef said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    Plans to shaft Northern Ireland by Boris does make that DUP bet look interesting.

    Boris' new support for a limited hard border between NI and the Republic would be fine by the DUP

    The shift in the brexiteer/neobrexiteer position over the past 18 months is illustrative of their complete lack of pragmatism, wit and imagination.

    Only a fool would leave the single market
    We will leave the single market
    Only a fool would risk the peace process by establishing a hard Irish border
    We will establish a 'limited' hard Irish border

    Next up: we will establish a hard Irish border and crash out on WTO terms.

    Anything – anything – to preserve PURITY!!!
    Well given the EU is making it almost impossible to do anything else and deliver full Brexit that may well end up the case
    Just maybe we WILL crash out, and the resulting economic chaos is so bad that the Tories struggle to hold Maidenhead and Witham and we crawl back into the EU. And into the Euro and Schengen.
    Hope it’s nowhere near as bad as that but the incompetence currently being displayed by the Government and to a lesser extent the Opposition suggests the possibility.
    Most Leave voters did so to end free movement and regain sovereignty, exactly what the EU is frustrating the government from doing and of course 2/3 of constituencies voted Leave.

    Had the Euro and Schengen been on the cards it would have been 90% of constituencies voting Leave
    I’m looking to the future, not the past.
    It will be almost 40 years before all the over 45s have disappeared from the electorate
    Won there be new over 45s?
    True but that depends on voters getting more socially conservative and nationalist as they get older
  • RobDRobD Posts: 32,586

    RobD said:

    This isn't the sort of democracy that Leavers approve of:

    Hasn't that point already been conceded?
    Only the first one.
    So there's no need to put it back to the people then.
This discussion has been closed.