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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Ladbrokes now make it evens that TMay survive the year

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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    If a Deliveroo person is prepared to cycle down from Teesside to bring me a Parmo, then I might be interested. However, it might need reheating by then.

    As might the Deliveroo person. You had best put the kettle on for him before ordering.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    Mr Hancock also revealed the Government would repeal laws that could force newspapers to pay all costs for libel cases whether they won or lost.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5449399/Culture-Secretary-cancels-second-Leveson-Inquiry.html

    Obviously when Jezza comes in and closes all the free press he doesn't like this will be immaterial, but this particular rule was bonkers. If the press prints lies they should pay, but if they don't, they shouldn't be liable for the other sides costs.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,715

    FF43 said:

    Deliveroo is one business I don't get. It seems a very expensive way to get a takeaway from a crap chain restaurant, but then I wasn't effected by the KFC closures nor care if Nando runs out of chicken / Jamie Italian chain goes bust (other than obviously people losing work).

    In principle you get a better meal from Deliveroo than Just Eat because they deal with fine dining (in relative terms) restaurants who see takeaway as another sales channel and don't want to do the delivery themselves. I believe Deliveroo charge those restaurants a 30% commission.

    Having looked at the price differences on Deliveroo compared to the actual restaurant menu, I think it is the customers who pay the 30%.

    I wouldn't be surprised that both parties are paying Deliveroo. Providing the delivery was their USP, but Just Eat and Uber so so as well now. Thinking about it, I haven't seen a Just Eat delivery rider recently.
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    Cyclefree said:

    Remember that time when we woke up to find that the Conservatives had quietly dumped Ian Duncan Smith? What are the chances they will do the same with Brexit?

    Nil. They need to dump the swivel-eyed Brexit loons first. After that they can ask the EU to stop the process whilst they take a realistic look at things and come up with a coherent plan for either IN or OUT.
    A press on the PAUSE button would be ideal. Some very hard thinking to get a coherent plan is urgently needed.

    Of course they should have done this before pressing the Article 50 button. God only knows why they didn't. The timing of Article 50 was about the only leverage the UK had.

    The EU conveniently took away the A50 leverage by refusing to have any talks until A50 was enacted.

    Then the EU insisted on 3 issues first (including the Ireland one) before discussing trade.

    So that's why we're here and there appears to not be a plan, because the EU response to any UK plan is simply "do what you're told". And that attitude is why we voted for Brexit in the first place.

    Mrs May could still have held off triggering A50 and got the policy brief sorted out in a more realistic fashion. To start the process with a fantasy that David Davis would hop over to Berlin and it would be sorted out in a week or two was not exactly brilliant politics.
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    tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,546

    I wonder if this is the week Boris finally flounces.

    I think if he went this week, it would be seen as a resignation in disgrace after a problem filled week - the stuff about the Camden - Islington border, the letter to TMay speculating about a hard border, and criticism of the garden bridge fiasco.

    I suspect his message would be drowned out if he goes this week - he's smart enough to choose a better time surely?
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Just had a flutter on George Osborne to be next London Mayor at 40/1.

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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897
    tlg86 said:

    Is somebody going to speak up for Max Mosely?

    Sure. His reaction to the Imola tragedies in 1994 have undoubtedly save more lives in F1, as did he and Bernie getting Prof Watkins is as F1 medical officer. (Though I also slightly blame Moseley for the Imola deaths, given the sudden rule changes probably contributed to the crashes).

    But over the current story? Nah. ;)
    I reckon Ron Dennis is chuckling at Mosely's demise.
    Somewhat, and he isn’t the only one.

    Murdoch is going to do everything in his considerable power to get Mosley in front of a judge on a perjury charge.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,067

    Cyclefree said:

    Remember that time when we woke up to find that the Conservatives had quietly dumped Ian Duncan Smith? What are the chances they will do the same with Brexit?

    Nil. They need to dump the swivel-eyed Brexit loons first. After that they can ask the EU to stop the process whilst they take a realistic look at things and come up with a coherent plan for either IN or OUT.
    A press on the PAUSE button would be ideal. Some very hard thinking to get a coherent plan is urgently needed.

    Of course they should have done this before pressing the Article 50 button. God only knows why they didn't. The timing of Article 50 was about the only leverage the UK had.
    The EU conveniently took away the A50 leverage by refusing to have any talks until A50 was enacted.

    Then the EU insisted on 3 issues first (including the Ireland one) before discussing trade.

    So that's why we're here and there appears to not be a plan, because the EU response to any UK plan is simply "do what you're told". And that attitude is why we voted for Brexit in the first place.
    "The more we realise how good the EU is at negotiations, the less we want the EU to negotiate on our behalf."
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Cyclefree said:

    Remember that time when we woke up to find that the Conservatives had quietly dumped Ian Duncan Smith? What are the chances they will do the same with Brexit?

    Nil. They need to dump the swivel-eyed Brexit loons first. After that they can ask the EU to stop the process whilst they take a realistic look at things and come up with a coherent plan for either IN or OUT.
    A press on the PAUSE button would be ideal. Some very hard thinking to get a coherent plan is urgently needed.

    Of course they should have done this before pressing the Article 50 button. God only knows why they didn't. The timing of Article 50 was about the only leverage the UK had.
    Well quite. I suppose since Belgium (and therefore Brussels) still legally sets it's time relative to GMT (rather than UTC), I suppose the government could keep adding leap seconds to GMT until a strategy develops. They said we leave the EU in 2019, but no one technically agreed when 2019 actually starts.

    This is clearly mad, but still an improvement on what the government is actually doing.


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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    Remember that time when we woke up to find that the Conservatives had quietly dumped Ian Duncan Smith? What are the chances they will do the same with Brexit?

    Probably nil?
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    TGOHF said:

    Just had a flutter on George Osborne to be next London Mayor at 40/1.

    What price, GO v Sadiq?

    3/1?
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282
    edited March 2018
    TGOHF said:

    Just had a flutter on George Osborne to be next London Mayor at 40/1.

    London is lost to the Tories for the foreseeable (which TBF isn't as long as it used to be, but it's long enough)
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205
    edited March 2018

    Cyclefree said:

    Remember that time when we woke up to find that the Conservatives had quietly dumped Ian Duncan Smith? What are the chances they will do the same with Brexit?

    Nil. They need to dump the swivel-eyed Brexit loons first. After that they can ask the EU to stop the process whilst they take a realistic look at things and come up with a coherent plan for either IN or OUT.
    A press on the PAUSE button would be ideal. Some very hard thinking to get a coherent plan is urgently needed.

    Of course they should have done this before pressing the Article 50 button. God only knows why they didn't. The timing of Article 50 was about the only leverage the UK had.

    The EU conveniently took away the A50 leverage by refusing to have any talks until A50 was enacted.

    Then the EU insisted on 3 issues first (including the Ireland one) before discussing trade.

    So that's why we're here and there appears to not be a plan, because the EU response to any UK plan is simply "do what you're told". And that attitude is why we voted for Brexit in the first place.

    Re the first point, I can see your point. But regardless the government should have done all the detailed work on all the issues arising to come up with a plan of its own - for a transition, for all the different sectors, for an FTA, for or not EFTA/EEA, for Ireland, for the talks etc etc.

    And then it should have taken the initiative by setting out what it wanted, what it would offer and how - in detail - it would get to wherever it wanted to be. Of course the EU might still have reacted in the way you describe but there might also have been a chance of them seeing that there was a serious grown up thoughtful interlocutor on the other side of the table. Not arrogant, incompetent amateurs like Johnson, Davis and Fox who, whatever your view on Brexit, shame this country.

    And it could also have had the conversation with the country it needed to, to explain the destination, the trade offs, the complexities etc and it could have got some of those on the losing side on board or at least not so hostile. And it should have leveraged the skills and advice of people from across the political spectrum including those opposed to Brexit, because frankly it needed all the help it could got.

    It did none of those things and now the government and the country are boxed into a corner.

    Even if Brexit was not your choice there was a much more intelligent and thoughtful way of going about it than what we have seen.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Floater said:

    Sky brings Netflix on board

    http://www.bbc.com/news/business-43242057

    This is the sort of thing why I argue the licence fee is totally broken. The BBC while wed to the telly tax can't compete with the shifts happening in the modern world of content creation.

    Murdoch has seen the tectonic plates shifting, and the Sky under new ownership are in an even better position to adapt with the times.

    Netflix and Amazon are providing some great content.
    Much of it created or originally developed by the BBC. :-)
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    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited March 2018
    Some Brexit good news (I know, me neither).
    https://twitter.com/SirBasilBrush/status/969227448901623808
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205

    Cyclefree said:

    Remember that time when we woke up to find that the Conservatives had quietly dumped Ian Duncan Smith? What are the chances they will do the same with Brexit?

    Nil. They need to dump the swivel-eyed Brexit loons first. After that they can ask the EU to stop the process whilst they take a realistic look at things and come up with a coherent plan for either IN or OUT.
    A press on the PAUSE button would be ideal. Some very hard thinking to get a coherent plan is urgently needed.

    Of course they should have done this before pressing the Article 50 button. God only knows why they didn't. The timing of Article 50 was about the only leverage the UK had.
    As I recall, the only justification for the A50 timing was the Euro elections in March 2019. When combined with the 2 year A50 deadline it meant that if triggered in March 2017 then we could avoid having MEPs who would only serve a part term.

    Not a brilliant justification, but ...

    A bloody silly justification IMO. So what if there were some UK MEPs. It might have annoyed the EU but big deal. Far more important was working out what we wanted which, some 21 months after the referendum, we still have not done.......
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    Anorak said:

    Some Brexit good news (I know, me neither).
    https://twitter.com/SirBasilBrush/status/969227448901623808

    Isn't that HMGs position? :p
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    tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,546
    Cyclefree said:

    Remember that time when we woke up to find that the Conservatives had quietly dumped Ian Duncan Smith? What are the chances they will do the same with Brexit?

    Nil. They need to dump the swivel-eyed Brexit loons first. After that they can ask the EU to stop the process whilst they take a realistic look at things and come up with a coherent plan for either IN or OUT.
    A press on the PAUSE button would be ideal. Some very hard thinking to get a coherent plan is urgently needed.

    Of course they should have done this before pressing the Article 50 button. God only knows why they didn't. The timing of Article 50 was about the only leverage the UK had.
    In any rational world, it's not the Government who should have done this before March 2017 - it was the Leave campaign who should have done it before June 2016. The Irish border was given no serious analysis during the referendum campaign (other than Remainer X: I think we have a problem here, Leaver Y: Nah, it'll be fine)

    But as I and many others are having to come to terms with, we lost because we played a rational game when the battleground was elsewhere.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,067
    Anorak said:

    Some Brexit good news (I know, me neither).

    Desperate stuff.

    That report was publicised at the time, and does not describe a frictionless border so it is not a viable solution.
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    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    TGOHF said:

    Just had a flutter on George Osborne to be next London Mayor at 40/1.

    If you can trade out, great. If you can’t, that bet has zero value.

    If the Tories wanted to get <30% of the vote in London, Osborne would be a good choice.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,945
    tpfkar said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Remember that time when we woke up to find that the Conservatives had quietly dumped Ian Duncan Smith? What are the chances they will do the same with Brexit?

    Nil. They need to dump the swivel-eyed Brexit loons first. After that they can ask the EU to stop the process whilst they take a realistic look at things and come up with a coherent plan for either IN or OUT.
    A press on the PAUSE button would be ideal. Some very hard thinking to get a coherent plan is urgently needed.

    Of course they should have done this before pressing the Article 50 button. God only knows why they didn't. The timing of Article 50 was about the only leverage the UK had.
    In any rational world, it's not the Government who should have done this before March 2017 - it was the Leave campaign who should have done it before June 2016. The Irish border was given no serious analysis during the referendum campaign (other than Remainer X: I think we have a problem here, Leaver Y: Nah, it'll be fine)

    But as I and many others are having to come to terms with, we lost because we played a rational game when the battleground was elsewhere.
    You didn't play a rational game. You just lied about different things.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125

    Remember that time when we woke up to find that the Conservatives had quietly dumped Ian Duncan Smith? What are the chances they will do the same with Brexit?

    They defenestrated IDS to keep the Tory brand going.

    Not delivering Brexit would kill the Tory brand stone dead. So no chance.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,715
    edited March 2018
    Cyclefree said:

    Remember that time when we woke up to find that the Conservatives had quietly dumped Ian Duncan Smith? What are the chances they will do the same with Brexit?

    Nil. They need to dump the swivel-eyed Brexit loons first. After that they can ask the EU to stop the process whilst they take a realistic look at things and come up with a coherent plan for either IN or OUT.
    A press on the PAUSE button would be ideal. Some very hard thinking to get a coherent plan is urgently needed.

    Of course they should have done this before pressing the Article 50 button. God only knows why they didn't. The timing of Article 50 was about the only leverage the UK had.
    Do you remember "No Deal is better than a bad deal"? The idea was that we threaten to walk away and the Germans, Italians etc would run after us because they would be desperate to sell us their cars and prosecco. Brexiteers egged May on and organised drinks parties to celebrate the event.

    I pointed out on this forum that refusing to budge was a better BATNA (best alternative to negotiated agreement) but was told, just as well I wasn't doing the negotiations. (they may be right about that).
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Remember that time when we woke up to find that the Conservatives had quietly dumped Ian Duncan Smith? What are the chances they will do the same with Brexit?

    Nil. They need to dump the swivel-eyed Brexit loons first. After that they can ask the EU to stop the process whilst they take a realistic look at things and come up with a coherent plan for either IN or OUT.
    A press on the PAUSE button would be ideal. Some very hard thinking to get a coherent plan is urgently needed.

    Of course they should have done this before pressing the Article 50 button. God only knows why they didn't. The timing of Article 50 was about the only leverage the UK had.
    As I recall, the only justification for the A50 timing was the Euro elections in March 2019. When combined with the 2 year A50 deadline it meant that if triggered in March 2017 then we could avoid having MEPs who would only serve a part term.

    Not a brilliant justification, but ...

    A bloody silly justification IMO. So what if there were some UK MEPs. It might have annoyed the EU but big deal. Far more important was working out what we wanted which, some 21 months after the referendum, we still have not done.......
    I am not going to argue your point. I am, after all, an arch-Remoaner :D

    It would be nice to have a national rational policy instead of watching the loons rub themselves against the furniture as they get excited by the thought of post-Brexit aka 1957 mk2.

    The only consolation left to me is watching JRM et al's increasing desperation as it all falls apart as reality refuses to negotiate with fantasy.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    Anorak said:

    Some Brexit good news (I know, me neither).

    Desperate stuff.

    That report was publicised at the time, and does not describe a frictionless border so it is not a viable solution.
    I think mostly frictionless will be satisfactory.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,067
    RobD said:

    Anorak said:

    Some Brexit good news (I know, me neither).

    Desperate stuff.

    That report was publicised at the time, and does not describe a frictionless border so it is not a viable solution.
    I think mostly frictionless will be satisfactory.
    You're not the one who needs to be satisfied by it.
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Cyclefree said:

    ... there might also have been a chance of them seeing that there was a serious grown up thoughtful interlocutor on the other side of the table. Not arrogant, incompetent amateurs like Johnson, Davis and Fox who, whatever your view on Brexit, shame this country.

    :+1::+1::+1::+1::+1::+1:
    Cyclefree said:

    Even if Brexit was not your choice there was a much more intelligent and thoughtful way of going about it than what we have seen.

    :+1::+1::+1::+1::+1::+1:
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    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited March 2018

    Anorak said:

    Some Brexit good news (I know, me neither).

    Desperate stuff.

    That report was publicised at the time, and does not describe a frictionless border so it is not a viable solution.
    As a die-hard remainer I'm not desperate to show one-thing or another in this case. But it seemed a lot better than the apocalyptic situation some people would have one believe.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,629
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Deliveroo is one business I don't get. It seems a very expensive way to get a takeaway from a crap chain restaurant, but then I wasn't effected by the KFC closures nor care if Nando runs out of chicken / Jamie Italian chain goes bust (other than obviously people losing work).

    In principle you get a better meal from Deliveroo than Just Eat because they deal with fine dining (in relative terms) restaurants who see takeaway as another sales channel and don't want to do the delivery themselves. I believe Deliveroo charge those restaurants a 30% commission.

    Having looked at the price differences on Deliveroo compared to the actual restaurant menu, I think it is the customers who pay the 30%.

    I wouldn't be surprised that both parties are paying Deliveroo. Providing the delivery was their USP, but Just Eat and Uber so so as well now. Thinking about it, I haven't seen a Just Eat delivery rider recently.
    Deliveroo strikes me as emblematic of what is wrong with Britain. Youngsters on the gig economy riding in dark and snow to deliver junk food to couch potatoes who would be better off walking to the grocery store then to the kitchen.

    No wonder diabetes has doubled in 20 years. It is national suicide by junk food.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,067
    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    Some Brexit good news (I know, me neither).

    Desperate stuff.

    That report was publicised at the time, and does not describe a frictionless border so it is not a viable solution.
    As a die-hard remainer I'm not desperate to show one-thing or another in this case. But it seemed a lot better than the apocalyptic situation some people would have one believe.
    Apologies if my first comment was misdirected. This document is suddenly being circulated by Leavers who think it offers an alternative solution to full alignment, but it doesn't.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    RobD said:

    Anorak said:

    Some Brexit good news (I know, me neither).

    Desperate stuff.

    That report was publicised at the time, and does not describe a frictionless border so it is not a viable solution.
    I think mostly frictionless will be satisfactory.
    You're not the one who needs to be satisfied by it.
    Let me rephrase that then. I think the majority of people will be happy with mostly frictionless. ;)
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897
    TGOHF said:

    Just had a flutter on George Osborne to be next London Mayor at 40/1.

    For the Lib Dems?
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Jonathan said:

    Floater said:

    Sky brings Netflix on board

    http://www.bbc.com/news/business-43242057

    This is the sort of thing why I argue the licence fee is totally broken. The BBC while wed to the telly tax can't compete with the shifts happening in the modern world of content creation.

    Murdoch has seen the tectonic plates shifting, and the Sky under new ownership are in an even better position to adapt with the times.

    Netflix and Amazon are providing some great content.
    Much of it created or originally developed by the BBC. :-)
    Mhh - why do I never watch anything on the Beeb then?

    Oh of course - they get paid no matter what shite appears on our screens

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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    Some Brexit good news (I know, me neither).

    Desperate stuff.

    That report was publicised at the time, and does not describe a frictionless border so it is not a viable solution.
    As a die-hard remainer I'm not desperate to show one-thing or another in this case. But it seemed a lot better than the apocalyptic situation some people would have one believe.
    Apologies if my first comment was misdirected. This document is suddenly being circulated by Leavers who think it offers an alternative solution to full alignment, but it doesn't.
    No, it shows the EU and UK positions are quite similar. Looking for a FTA and technological solutions.
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    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    Some Brexit good news (I know, me neither).

    Desperate stuff.

    That report was publicised at the time, and does not describe a frictionless border so it is not a viable solution.
    As a die-hard remainer I'm not desperate to show one-thing or another in this case. But it seemed a lot better than the apocalyptic situation some people would have one believe.
    Apologies if my first comment was misdirected. This document is suddenly being circulated by Leavers who think it offers an alternative solution to full alignment, but it doesn't.
    Fair enough. I find the whole customs, tariff, rules of origin marlarky rather esoteric. Recondite, even.

    It seems sadly inevitable that the Northern Irish will be worse off as a result of whatever's put in place, hi-tech or otherwise.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,715
    edited March 2018
    The problem with the solution in the Good Friday Agreement context, I suspect, is the answer to the first question. You still need the physical border. The answer to the second question is that it is possible to design processes compliant with EU regulation that get you through the physical border faster.
    Anorak said:

    Some Brexit good news (I know, me neither).
    https://twitter.com/SirBasilBrush/status/969227448901623808

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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005
    TGOHF said:

    Just had a flutter on George Osborne to be next London Mayor at 40/1.

    In 2024 maybe not 2020 on the basis Livingstone and Boris both only served two terms.

    If Corbyn wins in 2022 that would boost his chances as he could benefit from a mid term protest vote and he clearly has broader appeal in London at least than the average Tory
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited March 2018
    Time to deploy the EU army !

    Reality bites for Barmy Barnier

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-northern-ireland-border-brexit-eu-hard-no-deal-cabinet-irish-a8235096.html?amp&__twitter_impression=true



    Britain would refuse to enforce any new border in Ireland even if there is a ‘no deal’ Brexit, a Cabinet minister has told The Independent.

    With the EU saying this week that a border is the only option if Britain refuses to stay aligned with European customs and regulation, the minister added: “If they want to put up a border, let them try.”
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,613
    HYUFD said:

    TGOHF said:

    Just had a flutter on George Osborne to be next London Mayor at 40/1.

    In 2024 maybe not 2020 on the basis Livingstone and Boris both only served two terms.

    If Corbyn wins in 2022 that would boost his chances as he could benefit from a mid term protest vote and he clearly has broader appeal in London at least than the average Tory
    He might even have the support of the local free rag.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    FF43 said:

    The problem with the solution in the Good Friday Agreement context, I suspect, is the answer to the first question. You still need the physical border. The answer to the second question is that it is possible to design processes compliant with EU regulation that get you through the physical border faster.

    Anorak said:

    Some Brexit good news (I know, me neither).
    twitter.com/SirBasilBrush/status/969227448901623808

    Again, there's nothing I could see in the GFA that precludes some customs checks.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005

    HYUFD said:

    TGOHF said:

    Just had a flutter on George Osborne to be next London Mayor at 40/1.

    In 2024 maybe not 2020 on the basis Livingstone and Boris both only served two terms.

    If Corbyn wins in 2022 that would boost his chances as he could benefit from a mid term protest vote and he clearly has broader appeal in London at least than the average Tory
    He might even have the support of the local free rag.
    All part of his cunning plan no doubt
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,613
    TGOHF said:

    Time to deploy the EU army !

    Reality bites for Barmy Barnier

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-northern-ireland-border-brexit-eu-hard-no-deal-cabinet-irish-a8235096.html?amp&__twitter_impression=true



    Britain would refuse to enforce any new border in Ireland even if there is a ‘no deal’ Brexit, a Cabinet minister has told The Independent.

    With the EU saying this week that a border is the only option if Britain refuses to stay aligned with European customs and regulation, the minister added: “If they want to put up a border, let them try.”

    I find that very difficult to believe. That a Cabinet Minister would speak to The Independent.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    I see that satire truly is dead. @tyson claims he doesn't do personal attacks, and Jon Lansman says he is standing as General Sec of the Labour Party in order to help Jeremy Corbyn sweep away the old machine politics.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    TGOHF said:

    Britain would refuse to enforce any new border in Ireland even if there is a ‘no deal’ Brexit, a Cabinet minister has told The Independent.

    TAKE BACK CONTROL OF OUR BORDERS !!!

    [sotto voce] except that one...
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    HHemmeligHHemmelig Posts: 617
    TGOHF said:

    Just had a flutter on George Osborne to be next London Mayor at 40/1.

    I don't think they are good odds at all.

    Since Brexit London has become such a solid Labour city that I don't see anyone under an official Conservative label winning a mayoral election again for decades to come, even for "out of the box" Tory candidates like Boris or Osborne.

    For the foreseeable future IMO, Labour would only be beatable from the right by an independent.

    At the moment Khan's approval ratings are excellent and given the Labour dominance of London right now he's a total shoo-in for re-election in 2020.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    Scott_P said:

    TGOHF said:

    Britain would refuse to enforce any new border in Ireland even if there is a ‘no deal’ Brexit, a Cabinet minister has told The Independent.

    TAKE BACK CONTROL OF OUR BORDERS !!!

    [sotto voce] except that one...
    Given that Irish citizens had right of residency in the UK anyway, it doesn't need controlling.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,715
    TGOHF said:

    Time to deploy the EU army !

    Reality bites for Barmy Barnier

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-northern-ireland-border-brexit-eu-hard-no-deal-cabinet-irish-a8235096.html?amp&__twitter_impression=true



    Britain would refuse to enforce any new border in Ireland even if there is a ‘no deal’ Brexit, a Cabinet minister has told The Independent.

    With the EU saying this week that a border is the only option if Britain refuses to stay aligned with European customs and regulation, the minister added: “If they want to put up a border, let them try.”

    If the border is unenforceable as the UK cabinet minister asserts, the EU will double down on technical solutions to manage it. Common regulation across Ireland would be the only workable solution.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    I see that satire truly is dead. @tyson claims he doesn't do personal attacks, and Jon Lansman says he is standing as General Sec of the Labour Party in order to help Jeremy Corbyn sweep away the old machine politics.

    And people are betting real money on George Osborne becoming London mayor. Clearly not as a Conservative these days.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Scott_P said:

    TGOHF said:

    Britain would refuse to enforce any new border in Ireland even if there is a ‘no deal’ Brexit, a Cabinet minister has told The Independent.

    TAKE BACK CONTROL OF OUR BORDERS !!!

    [sotto voce] except that one...
    That’s your poker tell Scott for being triggered.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    FF43 said:

    TGOHF said:

    Time to deploy the EU army !

    Reality bites for Barmy Barnier

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-northern-ireland-border-brexit-eu-hard-no-deal-cabinet-irish-a8235096.html?amp&__twitter_impression=true



    Britain would refuse to enforce any new border in Ireland even if there is a ‘no deal’ Brexit, a Cabinet minister has told The Independent.

    With the EU saying this week that a border is the only option if Britain refuses to stay aligned with European customs and regulation, the minister added: “If they want to put up a border, let them try.”

    If the border is unenforceable as the UK cabinet minister asserts, the EU will double down on technical solutions to manage it. Common regulation across Ireland would be the only workable solution.
    Oh, so technological solutions are possible? No need for plan C then. :smiley:
  • Options
    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    edited March 2018
    Foxy said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Deliveroo is one business I don't get. It seems a very expensive way to get a takeaway from a crap chain restaurant, but then I wasn't effected by the KFC closures nor care if Nando runs out of chicken / Jamie Italian chain goes bust (other than obviously people losing work).

    In principle you get a better meal from Deliveroo than Just Eat because they deal with fine dining (in relative terms) restaurants who see takeaway as another sales channel and don't want to do the delivery themselves. I believe Deliveroo charge those restaurants a 30% commission.

    Having looked at the price differences on Deliveroo compared to the actual restaurant menu, I think it is the customers who pay the 30%.

    I wouldn't be surprised that both parties are paying Deliveroo. Providing the delivery was their USP, but Just Eat and Uber so so as well now. Thinking about it, I haven't seen a Just Eat delivery rider recently.
    Deliveroo strikes me as emblematic of what is wrong with Britain. Youngsters on the gig economy riding in dark and snow to deliver junk food to couch potatoes who would be better off walking to the grocery store then to the kitchen.

    No wonder diabetes has doubled in 20 years. It is national suicide by junk food.
    Is it any worse than bacon ? Which according to some reports what you read is killing us. Anyways I have for a long time eaten less red meat and become more flexitarianism.
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,860

    I see that satire truly is dead. @tyson claims he doesn't do personal attacks, and Jon Lansman says he is standing as General Sec of the Labour Party in order to help Jeremy Corbyn sweep away the old machine politics.

    Lansman wants to transform Labour into a member led organisation.

    UNITE do not want this they want Unions to hold sway.

    Whose side are PB Tories on given Jennie Formby or JL are the only 2 games in town.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    Lansman wants to transform Labour into a member led organisation.

    That made me laugh out loud, thanks!
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Scott_P said:
    Who are these nobodies you keep pasting Scott - like a yellow pages of self important metropolitan misanthropes who are legends in their own Latte breaks.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    Whose side are PB Tories on given Jennie Formby or JL are the only 2 games in town.

    Not on any side. The Labour Party's affairs are its problem, although it must be deeply distressing for traditional Labour figures to see the parasite continuing to eat away at the party from the inside.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:
    Who are these nobodies you keep pasting Scott - like a yellow pages of self important metropolitan misanthropes who are legends in their own Latte breaks.
    Looks like he's an EU correspondent of a former newspaper... titters.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    RobD said:

    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:
    Who are these nobodies you keep pasting Scott - like a yellow pages of self important metropolitan misanthropes who are legends in their own Latte breaks.
    Looks like he's an EU correspondent of a former newspaper... titters.
    Not sure the Pulitzer committee will spend much time considering that tweet.

    No wonder the Indy is down he tubes if their journos spend more time tweeting their virtue than reporting the news.
  • Options
    HHemmeligHHemmelig Posts: 617
    HYUFD said:

    TGOHF said:

    Just had a flutter on George Osborne to be next London Mayor at 40/1.

    In 2024 maybe not 2020 on the basis Livingstone and Boris both only served two terms.

    If Corbyn wins in 2022 that would boost his chances as he could benefit from a mid term protest vote and he clearly has broader appeal in London at least than the average Tory
    Only Livingstone actually stood and lost a 3rd (and 4th) time. Boris stood down. I wonder if he might have won re-election in 2016 had he stood. My gut says probably not, especially as Boris had come out for Leave by that point, but it would have been far closer than Khan vs Goldsmith.

    I wonder if Labour might want to stand a new candidate in 2024 to prevent Khan falling into the Livingstone trap of turning stale and losing.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,067
    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:
    Who are these nobodies you keep pasting Scott
    Nobody and no-one feature quite heavily in the rhetoric of Daniel Hannan.

    https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/969229640400326656
    https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/969248291882926080
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Scott_P said:
    I've no idea what Jon Stone is trying to say there, but the Cabinet Minister quoted is just stating the obvious truth, that the UK has no interest in putting up any physical controls at the Irish border. Why on earth would we want to? What would we be trying to prevent?
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:
    Who are these nobodies you keep pasting Scott
    Nobody and no-one feature quite heavily in the rhetoric of Daniel Hannan.

    witter.com/DanielJHannan/status/969229640400326656
    twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/969248291882926080
    That's a bit harsh, calling Remainers nobodies and no ones. :p
  • Options
    calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    Leonard's biggest challenge is keeping on-side the circa 30% of SLAB's support base which favours independence - he's still relatively unknown outside political circles:

    https://inews.co.uk/news/scotland/richard-leonard-scots-wont-vote-im-english/
  • Options
    Sorry, but who cares?

    No Al-Beeb "even-handedness"; no Lib-Dhimmy 'bar-chart'? Events occur and grown-ups handle them.

    So what do you do? Markets are fun for short-term gains: Invest long.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Why on earth would we want to?

    Ask a Brexiteer...

    Tezza at PMQs yesterday was insistent on controlling our borders.*

    *terms and exclusions apply, apparently...
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:
    Who are these nobodies you keep pasting Scott
    Nobody and no-one feature quite heavily in the rhetoric of Daniel Hannan.

    https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/969229640400326656
    https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/969248291882926080
    That was quite a tangent to zing off on william.

    Question - who will be manning this hard border ? The Gardai or crack EU troops from the 1690th Molenbeek fusiliers ??
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,067
    Scott_P said:

    Why on earth would we want to?

    Ask a Brexiteer...

    Tezza at PMQs yesterday was insistent on controlling our borders.*

    *terms and exclusions apply, apparently...
    Clearly 'our borders' isn't meant to include all parts of the precious union.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005
    edited March 2018
    HHemmelig said:

    HYUFD said:

    TGOHF said:

    Just had a flutter on George Osborne to be next London Mayor at 40/1.

    In 2024 maybe not 2020 on the basis Livingstone and Boris both only served two terms.

    If Corbyn wins in 2022 that would boost his chances as he could benefit from a mid term protest vote and he clearly has broader appeal in London at least than the average Tory
    Only Livingstone actually stood and lost a 3rd (and 4th) time. Boris stood down. I wonder if he might have won re-election in 2016 had he stood. My gut says probably not, especially as Boris had come out for Leave by that point, but it would have been far closer than Khan vs Goldsmith.

    I wonder if Labour might want to stand a new candidate in 2024 to prevent Khan falling into the Livingstone trap of turning stale and losing.
    Livingstone the Labour candidate lost after two terms as Mayor, Goldsmith the Tory candidate lost after two terms of a Tory Mayor. In 2024 therefore Osborne would likely have a good chance whoever Labour put up and especially if Corbyn is PM in midterm and West London and suburban Tories are motivated to come out and give Labour a kicking
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Imagine a Remainer designed remote controlled lift door.

    It would always be shut because control means closed.

    Like the EU - it would be useless.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited March 2018
    Scott_P said:

    Why on earth would we want to?

    Ask a Brexiteer...

    Tezza at PMQs yesterday was insistent on controlling our borders.*

    *terms and exclusions apply, apparently...
    For immigration, yes. But since we have the Common Travel Area, and have done for many decades. that is completely irrelevant to Ireland. I can't think of a single person who has suggested that we shouldn't recognise EU standards on goods, so there's nothing to check (except whether people are smuggling guns'n'booze'n'fags of course, but that's no different to now).
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,715
    RobD said:

    FF43 said:

    TGOHF said:

    Time to deploy the EU army !

    Reality bites for Barmy Barnier

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-northern-ireland-border-brexit-eu-hard-no-deal-cabinet-irish-a8235096.html?amp&__twitter_impression=true



    Britain would refuse to enforce any new border in Ireland even if there is a ‘no deal’ Brexit, a Cabinet minister has told The Independent.

    With the EU saying this week that a border is the only option if Britain refuses to stay aligned with European customs and regulation, the minister added: “If they want to put up a border, let them try.”

    If the border is unenforceable as the UK cabinet minister asserts, the EU will double down on technical solutions to manage it. Common regulation across Ireland would be the only workable solution.
    Oh, so technological solutions are possible? No need for plan C then. :smiley:
    If the UK says the Irish border is unenforceable, as this cabinet minister foolishly asserts*, the EU will prioritise Ireland over all other considerations of trade with the UK. Just because the UK government is grossly irresponsible doesn't mean the other party will be.

    * Because presumably he thinks that an argument for option B - technical solutions. It is possible that the Irish/EU have already come to the same conclusion about the impossibility of a managed border.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Sad to hear the Bolsheviks and Trotskyites are at war. Worthy reminder that the Conservatives do not have a monopoly on disunity.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,067
    RobD said:

    FF43 said:

    TGOHF said:

    Time to deploy the EU army !

    Reality bites for Barmy Barnier

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-northern-ireland-border-brexit-eu-hard-no-deal-cabinet-irish-a8235096.html?amp&__twitter_impression=true



    Britain would refuse to enforce any new border in Ireland even if there is a ‘no deal’ Brexit, a Cabinet minister has told The Independent.

    With the EU saying this week that a border is the only option if Britain refuses to stay aligned with European customs and regulation, the minister added: “If they want to put up a border, let them try.”

    If the border is unenforceable as the UK cabinet minister asserts, the EU will double down on technical solutions to manage it. Common regulation across Ireland would be the only workable solution.
    Oh, so technological solutions are possible? No need for plan C then. :smiley:
    What people don't get about plan C is that it is the minimalist option, not the maximalist one. Any plan A or B must be *better* in terms of the NI/Ireland situation, not merely adequate.
  • Options
    steve_garnersteve_garner Posts: 1,019

    Sad to hear the Bolsheviks and Trotskyites are at war. Worthy reminder that the Conservatives do not have a monopoly on disunity.

    Yes indeed, and it seems that Corbyn is on the side of the Unions rather than the members. No doubt this is what he meant by the new politics. Goodness only knows what Labour moderates think of the choice before them?
  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    I see that satire truly is dead. @tyson claims he doesn't do personal attacks, and Jon Lansman says he is standing as General Sec of the Labour Party in order to help Jeremy Corbyn sweep away the old machine politics.

    Lansman wants to transform Labour into a member led organisation.

    UNITE do not want this they want Unions to hold sway.

    Whose side are PB Tories on given Jennie Formby or JL are the only 2 games in town.
    Ho ho ho

    Lansman wants to transform labour alright
  • Options
    OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469

    Sky brings Netflix on board

    http://www.bbc.com/news/business-43242057

    This is the sort of thing why I argue the licence fee is totally broken. The BBC while wed to the telly tax can't compete with the shifts happening in the modern world of content creation.

    Murdoch has seen the tectonic plates shifting, and the Sky under new ownership are in an even better position to adapt with the times.

    Murdoch is losing the race for Sky, Comcast and Disney have both put more bucks on the table. .
  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    I see that satire truly is dead. @tyson claims he doesn't do personal attacks, and Jon Lansman says he is standing as General Sec of the Labour Party in order to help Jeremy Corbyn sweep away the old machine politics.

    Tyson gives a wonderful timely example of hypocrisy of the left.

  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205

    I see that satire truly is dead. @tyson claims he doesn't do personal attacks, and Jon Lansman says he is standing as General Sec of the Labour Party in order to help Jeremy Corbyn sweep away the old machine politics.

    Lansman wants to transform Labour into a member led organisation.

    UNITE do not want this they want Unions to hold sway.

    Whose side are PB Tories on given Jennie Formby or JL are the only 2 games in town.
    Who cares. We're too busy enjoying the sight of the Deputy Leader explaining why he should keep the £1/2 million quid he's trousered from a man whose parents had Hitler at their wedding.

  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,629
    edited March 2018
    Yorkcity said:

    Foxy said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Deliveroo is one business I don't get. It seems a very expensive way to get a takeaway from a crap chain restaurant, but then I wasn't effected by the KFC closures nor care if Nando runs out of chicken / Jamie Italian chain goes bust (other than obviously people losing work).

    In principle you get a better meal from Deliveroo than Just Eat because they deal with fine dining (in relative terms) restaurants who see takeaway as another sales channel and don't want to do the delivery themselves. I believe Deliveroo charge those restaurants a 30% commission.

    Having looked at the price differences on Deliveroo compared to the actual restaurant menu, I think it is the customers who pay the 30%.

    I wouldn't be surprised that both parties are paying Deliveroo. Providing the delivery was their USP, but Just Eat and Uber so so as well now. Thinking about it, I haven't seen a Just Eat delivery rider recently.
    Deliveroo strikes me as emblematic of what is wrong with Britain. Youngsters on the gig economy riding in dark and snow to deliver junk food to couch potatoes who would be better off walking to the grocery store then to the kitchen.

    No wonder diabetes has doubled in 20 years. It is national suicide by junk food.
    Is it any worse than bacon ? Which according to some reports what you read is killing us. Anyways I have for a long time eaten less red meat and become more flexitarianism.
    Cured meats such as ham and bacon are more linked to bowel cancer than directly to obesity. Obesity also contributes, but the nitrites in bacon seem to have a specific effect.



  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,304

    Scott_P said:

    Why on earth would we want to?

    Ask a Brexiteer...

    Tezza at PMQs yesterday was insistent on controlling our borders.*

    *terms and exclusions apply, apparently...
    For immigration, yes. But since we have the Common Travel Area, and have done for many decades. that is completely irrelevant to Ireland. I can't think of a single person who has suggested that we shouldn't recognise EU standards on goods, so there's nothing to check (except whether people are smuggling guns'n'booze'n'fags of course, but that's no different to now).
    You’re sounding positively HYUFD-ish.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited March 2018
    OchEye said:

    Sky brings Netflix on board

    http://www.bbc.com/news/business-43242057

    This is the sort of thing why I argue the licence fee is totally broken. The BBC while wed to the telly tax can't compete with the shifts happening in the modern world of content creation.

    Murdoch has seen the tectonic plates shifting, and the Sky under new ownership are in an even better position to adapt with the times.

    Murdoch is losing the race for Sky, Comcast and Disney have both put more bucks on the table. .
    That is what I said....Disney is in the prime position to leverage their existing position to move to the future, hence why he has already sold off $66bn of assets to them.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282

    I see that satire truly is dead. @tyson claims he doesn't do personal attacks, and Jon Lansman says he is standing as General Sec of the Labour Party in order to help Jeremy Corbyn sweep away the old machine politics.

    Personally, I have always found the machine politicians and fixers on the so-called 'moderate'/trade union wing of the Labour Party its least appealing
  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460

    RobD said:

    FF43 said:

    TGOHF said:

    Time to deploy the EU army !

    Reality bites for Barmy Barnier

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-northern-ireland-border-brexit-eu-hard-no-deal-cabinet-irish-a8235096.html?amp&__twitter_impression=true



    Britain would refuse to enforce any new border in Ireland even if there is a ‘no deal’ Brexit, a Cabinet minister has told The Independent.

    With the EU saying this week that a border is the only option if Britain refuses to stay aligned with European customs and regulation, the minister added: “If they want to put up a border, let them try.”

    If the border is unenforceable as the UK cabinet minister asserts, the EU will double down on technical solutions to manage it. Common regulation across Ireland would be the only workable solution.
    Oh, so technological solutions are possible? No need for plan C then. :smiley:
    What people don't get about plan C is that it is the minimalist option, not the maximalist one. Any plan A or B must be *better* in terms of the NI/Ireland situation, not merely adequate.
    Plan C involves the economic annexation of part of the country.

    I suppose we could dispense with tiresome things like Westminster and just have the Commission run the country. Much more “minimalist” than present arrangements with layers of elections and MPs and wotnot.
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,860
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205
    Floater said:

    I see that satire truly is dead. @tyson claims he doesn't do personal attacks, and Jon Lansman says he is standing as General Sec of the Labour Party in order to help Jeremy Corbyn sweep away the old machine politics.

    Tyson gives a wonderful timely example of hypocrisy of the left.

    Oh come on. The poor man. He was complaining earlier that he was trapped in Florence. Because of Brexit, apparently.

    I mean: being trapped in Florence. Have some pity.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,238

    Lansman wants to transform Labour into a member led organisation.

    Is this an admission that Jeremy Corbyn's election was a cock-up?

    And I am not going to get my coat, it's too fecking cold and snowy out there. Even the inside of my woodstore has got snow all over it, it's blowing about harder than a whore Clinton is paying by the orgasm.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited March 2018
    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:

    Why on earth would we want to?

    Ask a Brexiteer...

    Tezza at PMQs yesterday was insistent on controlling our borders.*

    *terms and exclusions apply, apparently...
    For immigration, yes. But since we have the Common Travel Area, and have done for many decades. that is completely irrelevant to Ireland. I can't think of a single person who has suggested that we shouldn't recognise EU standards on goods, so there's nothing to check (except whether people are smuggling guns'n'booze'n'fags of course, but that's no different to now).
    You’re sounding positively HYUFD-ish.
    I'm just baffled by the extraordinary contortions which people are adopting to make the Irish border an issue, when it clearly isn't. To repeat my question, why on earth would the UK want to put up border checks? There will literally be nothing to check if we have a trade agreement, and even in a no-deal WTO scenario, it wouldn't be worth doing physical checks since tariffs could be collected by a self-declaratory system and we're not going to exclude EU-compliant goods in any conceivable scenario.

    I appreciate that most people going on about the border are purely using it as a crude attempt to undermine Brexit or attack Theresa May, but even allowing for that, it's such a completely feeble argument that I'm astonished anyone can keep a straight face when deploying it. There are plenty of other, much more difficult issues to worry about.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,238
    edited March 2018
    That's based on 600 seats.

    What's the latest on the boundary review?

    Edit - no, my apologies, it can't be the SNP figure is too high if it's 600. That said it's 26 short not 53.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,067
    welshowl said:

    RobD said:

    FF43 said:

    TGOHF said:

    Time to deploy the EU army !

    Reality bites for Barmy Barnier

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-northern-ireland-border-brexit-eu-hard-no-deal-cabinet-irish-a8235096.html?amp&__twitter_impression=true



    Britain would refuse to enforce any new border in Ireland even if there is a ‘no deal’ Brexit, a Cabinet minister has told The Independent.

    With the EU saying this week that a border is the only option if Britain refuses to stay aligned with European customs and regulation, the minister added: “If they want to put up a border, let them try.”

    If the border is unenforceable as the UK cabinet minister asserts, the EU will double down on technical solutions to manage it. Common regulation across Ireland would be the only workable solution.
    Oh, so technological solutions are possible? No need for plan C then. :smiley:
    What people don't get about plan C is that it is the minimalist option, not the maximalist one. Any plan A or B must be *better* in terms of the NI/Ireland situation, not merely adequate.
    Plan C involves the economic annexation of part of the country.

    I suppose we could dispense with tiresome things like Westminster and just have the Commission run the country. Much more “minimalist” than present arrangements with layers of elections and MPs and wotnot.
    Plan C involves a continuation of the status quo inasmuch as it affects Northern Ireland to the extent necessary to maintain the Good Friday Agreement and the all-island economy. It's the minimum necessary.

    Alternatively there could be Plan A - an agreement that the UK as a whole maintain at least as close a relationship with the EU as covered by Plan C. Or Plan B - a specific solution for Northern Ireland, in other words the population of Northern Ireland could vote for unification.
  • Options
    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    edited March 2018
    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tonyblairs-speech-fullas-urges-eu-12109511

    Blair’s speech is fascinating. It’s a clear, logical argument for why Europe makes sense for Britain in the world today and the world to come.

    Who knows what would have happened if Cameron had actually made a positive case for Europe? He certainly couldn’t have done it in the 4 months he gave himself.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    Has BJO got any young grand kids? Cos if he does, I have a good idea what they are all getting for their Birthdays.

    https://order-order.com/2018/03/01/karl-marx-clothing-range-launched-corbynista-kids/
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,067

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:

    Why on earth would we want to?

    Ask a Brexiteer...

    Tezza at PMQs yesterday was insistent on controlling our borders.*

    *terms and exclusions apply, apparently...
    For immigration, yes. But since we have the Common Travel Area, and have done for many decades. that is completely irrelevant to Ireland. I can't think of a single person who has suggested that we shouldn't recognise EU standards on goods, so there's nothing to check (except whether people are smuggling guns'n'booze'n'fags of course, but that's no different to now).
    You’re sounding positively HYUFD-ish.
    I'm just baffled by the extraordinary contortions which people are adopting to make the Irish border an issue, when it clearly isn't. To repeat my question, why on earth would the UK want to put up border checks? There will literally be nothing to check if we have a trade agreement, and even in a no-deal WTO scenario, it wouldn't be worth doing physical checks since tariffs could be collected by a self-declaratory system and we're not going to exclude EU-compliant goods in any conceivable scenario.

    I appreciate that most people going on about the border are purely using it as a crude attempt to undermine Brexit or attack Theresa May, but even allowing for that, it's such a completely feeble argument that I'm astonished anyone can keep a straight face when deploying it. There are plenty of other, much more difficult issues to worry about.
    It's a national security issue for Ireland and they have every right to negotiate in the way that they are, especially when people on the UK side openly push for Irexit or treating Northern Ireland as an ungoverned space.
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,860

    Has BJO got any young grand kids? Cos if he does, I have a good idea what they are all getting for their Birthdays.

    https://order-order.com/2018/03/01/karl-marx-clothing-range-launched-corbynista-kids/

    Only got 9 and they will have to make do with SWFC wear
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285

    Has BJO got any young grand kids? Cos if he does, I have a good idea what they are all getting for their Birthdays.

    https://order-order.com/2018/03/01/karl-marx-clothing-range-launched-corbynista-kids/

    Only got 9 and they will have to make do with SWFC wear
    Is Karl Marx wear too expensive?
  • Options
    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Cyclefree said:

    I see that satire truly is dead. @tyson claims he doesn't do personal attacks, and Jon Lansman says he is standing as General Sec of the Labour Party in order to help Jeremy Corbyn sweep away the old machine politics.

    Lansman wants to transform Labour into a member led organisation.

    UNITE do not want this they want Unions to hold sway.

    Whose side are PB Tories on given Jennie Formby or JL are the only 2 games in town.
    Who cares. We're too busy enjoying the sight of the Deputy Leader explaining why he should keep the £1/2 million quid he's trousered from a man whose parents had Hitler at their wedding.

    Surely he can not be blamed for who his parents invited to their wedding ?
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    It's a national security issue for Ireland and they have every right to negotiate in the way that they are, especially when people on the UK side openly push for Irexit or treating Northern Ireland as an ungoverned space.

    They can do what they like, of course, but that doesn't alter the fact the UK has no interest in putting up border controls. If the EU and Ireland want to, well, that would be a great pity, but they have no need to in any scenario. (Cue the usual nonsense about EU regulations requiring inspections. Who sets EU regulations?)
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,860

    Has BJO got any young grand kids? Cos if he does, I have a good idea what they are all getting for their Birthdays.

    https://order-order.com/2018/03/01/karl-marx-clothing-range-launched-corbynista-kids/

    FU more obsessed with Corbyn than SteveF!!
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,238

    Has BJO got any young grand kids? Cos if he does, I have a good idea what they are all getting for their Birthdays.

    https://order-order.com/2018/03/01/karl-marx-clothing-range-launched-corbynista-kids/

    Only got 9 and they will have to make do with SWFC wear
    Ah, so free Owls will be given out by Labour in accordance with the famous Twitter pledge?
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    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460

    welshowl said:

    RobD said:

    FF43 said:

    TGOHF said:

    Time to deploy the EU army !

    Reality bites for Barmy Barnier

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-northern-ireland-border-brexit-eu-hard-no-deal-cabinet-irish-a8235096.html?amp&__twitter_impression=true



    Britain would refuse to enforce any new border in Ireland even if there is a ‘no deal’ Brexit, a Cabinet minister has told The Independent.

    With the EU saying this week that a border is the only option if Britain refuses to stay aligned with European customs and regulation, the minister added: “If they want to put up a border, let them try.”

    If the border is unenforceable as the UK cabinet minister asserts, the EU will double down on technical solutions to manage it. Common regulation across Ireland would be the only workable solution.
    Oh, so technological solutions are possible? No need for plan C then. :smiley:
    What people don't get about plan C is that it is the minimalist option, not the maximalist one. Any plan A or B must be *better* in terms of the NI/Ireland situation, not merely adequate.
    Plan C involves the economic annexation of part of the country.

    I suppose we could dispense with tiresome things like Westminster and just have the Commission run the country. Much more “minimalist” than present arrangements with layers of elections and MPs and wotnot.
    Plan C involves a continuation of the status quo inasmuch as it affects Northern Ireland to the extent necessary to maintain the Good Friday Agreement and the all-island economy. It's the minimum necessary.

    Alternatively there could be Plan A - an agreement that the UK as a whole maintain at least as close a relationship with the EU as covered by Plan C. Or Plan B - a specific solution for Northern Ireland, in other words the population of Northern Ireland could vote for unification.
    Does not the GFA say NI will not transfer its sovereignty without NI saying so? If so the Commission’s crackpot, malign, and aggressive stance ( even if it’s an opening gambit for negotiations) has all the aerodynamics of half a house brick without that consent, as Ms Foster will doubtless tell them at full volume. I don’t blame her.

    There again the EU isn’t big on consent of the governed is it?
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,304

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:

    Why on earth would we want to?

    Ask a Brexiteer...

    Tezza at PMQs yesterday was insistent on controlling our borders.*

    *terms and exclusions apply, apparently...
    For immigration, yes. But since we have the Common Travel Area, and have done for many decades. that is completely irrelevant to Ireland. I can't think of a single person who has suggested that we shouldn't recognise EU standards on goods, so there's nothing to check (except whether people are smuggling guns'n'booze'n'fags of course, but that's no different to now).
    You’re sounding positively HYUFD-ish.
    I'm just baffled by the extraordinary contortions which people are adopting to make the Irish border an issue, when it clearly isn't. To repeat my question, why on earth would the UK want to put up border checks? There will literally be nothing to check if we have a trade agreement, and even in a no-deal WTO scenario, it wouldn't be worth doing physical checks since tariffs could be collected by a self-declaratory system and we're not going to exclude EU-compliant goods in any conceivable scenario.

    I appreciate that most people going on about the border are purely using it as a crude attempt to undermine Brexit or attack Theresa May, but even allowing for that, it's such a completely feeble argument that I'm astonished anyone can keep a straight face when deploying it. There are plenty of other, much more difficult issues to worry about.
    First, you are ignoring the history of the island of Ireland. Secondly, there is an inherent contradiction which makes people throw up their hands in frustration: we Brexited to take back control. But for the Irish border, we don't want to take back control so won't take back control even though in theory we could take back control.

    There is your metaphor for the whole of Brexit.

    We theoretically might or might not be able to do something, but the practicality and illogicality of doing it means that we won't do it. So we are in the status quo ante. And all for what? For absolutely nothing, because all the things we have grown to value, live with and accept, we are nominally throwing away only to try to recreate it exactly as it was before we started.

    It is the very definition of bonkers.
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