Remember when people used to think Donald Trump was pro free trade?
Did they? Opposition to free trade is his one consistent attitude.
The problem with these kind of tariffs is that it's a slippery slope:
First, you put it on the steel. But that makes US made cars more expensive, so you put it on foreign cars. This results in a tit-for-tat, where the Chinese kill their Boeing orders. Boeing then complains about competition from Airbus in the US, and there are tariffs on imports of other airplanes.
I don't really want us to go down the plughole of protectionism, like we did in the 1920s and 30s.
Protectionism on the rise. The UK's self-removal from the world's largest free trade area could not have been more ill-timed.
The EU is not even close to being the world's largest free trade area. That is one of the most bald faced lies of the referendum campaign.
The EU has a strong hand, and so has fallen back on its usual arrogance and condescension when it feels strong. It's an approach that is not necessary when it only enhances the position of UK hardliners, which is not without some cost to the EU if it leads to no deal at all.
Even minor changes to yesterday’s document can be hailed as victories by the UK government. It strikes me that is all part of the plan - in London and Brussels. It could just be that a lot of this is bring choreographed. The EC is a handy conduit for the national governments on both sides of the argument. The UK can attack the Commission without damaging relations in Paris and Berlin, while Paris and Berlin use the Commission to do the messy stuff. Then at the end everyone shakes hands and we end up with a much softer, more conciliatory Brexit than anyone imsgined.
We are going to look back in disbelief, as we push our supermarket trolleys down the nuclear winter roads, at the fact that on the day of Putin going all Kim Il Jong on the missile front, we were bickering about Irish customs checks.
++
When the stories about Putin's enormous torpedo first surfaced a lot of "clever" people dismissed it as disinformation. Which might have made sense if it was not for the new submarines* Russia was building which appear to have a bloody great torpedo tube.
If nothing else I think we can now declare that Cold War 2.0 has begun.
* Three of them so far; one built, one being built, and one on the drawing board.
Can we have the @rcs1000 update on how long Russia's economy can survive at the current natural resources prices....
Nothing like a bit of a war when it comes to increasing natural resources prices.
Remember when people used to think Donald Trump was pro free trade?
I watched some of his rallies, he never gave the impression of being pro free trade. The one area he does seem to have changed is that he is almost more interventionist than he said he would be campaigning
Rumours are they are going for a de facto Governor of Yorkshire.
It has the name, YMCA (Yorkshire Mayoral Combined Authority)
That jobs got your name all over it...
If they give it the title Governor of Yorkshire I'm going for it.
I won't go for any job with a crap title like Mayor or First Minister.
I might consider First Lord of Yorkshire or Warden of the North.
Frankly the combined authorities merely being mayors really undermines them for me, not to mention being confusing. Some places have 3 different mayors. Lord mayors, city mayors and combined authority mayors.
I doubt they have enough power to justify being governors or wardens of the north, but it would be much more badass.
And don't get me started on PCCs, such a weak name. I'd heard people thought using Sheriff sounded too american, but I don't know if that is true.
How about Viceroy of the North.
King of the North. King of the North. It’s the stark choice.
Even minor changes to yesterday’s document can be hailed as victories by the UK government. It strikes me that is all part of the plan - in London and Brussels. It could just be that a lot of this is bring choreographed. The EC is a handy conduit for the national governments on both sides of the argument. The UK can attack the Commission without damaging relations in Paris and Berlin, while Paris and Berlin use the Commission to do the messy stuff. Then at the end everyone shakes hands and we end up with a much softer, more conciliatory Brexit than anyone imsgined.
The EU has a strong hand, and so has fallen back on its usual arrogance and condescension when it feels strong. It's an approach that is not necessary when it only enhances the position of UK hardliners, which is not without some cost to the EU if it leads to no deal at all.
Even minor changes to yesterday’s document can be hailed as victories by the UK government. It strikes me that is all part of the plan - in London and Brussels. It could just be that a lot of this is bring choreographed. The EC is a handy conduit for the national governments on both sides of the argument. The UK can attack the Commission without damaging relations in Paris and Berlin, while Paris and Berlin use the Commission to do the messy stuff. Then at the end everyone shakes hands and we end up with a much softer, more conciliatory Brexit than anyone imsgined.
Hopefully. But to hear the fanatics tell it, no, the EU means it all.
The EU has a strong hand, and so has fallen back on its usual arrogance and condescension when it feels strong. It's an approach that is not necessary when it only enhances the position of UK hardliners, which is not without some cost to the EU if it leads to no deal at all.
Even minor changes to yesterday’s document can be hailed as victories by the UK government. It strikes me that is all part of the plan - in London and Brussels. It could just be that a lot of this is bring choreographed. The EC is a handy conduit for the national governments on both sides of the argument. The UK can attack the Commission without damaging relations in Paris and Berlin, while Paris and Berlin use the Commission to do the messy stuff. Then at the end everyone shakes hands and we end up with a much softer, more conciliatory Brexit than anyone imsgined.
This week could well be the final roll of the dice from the Forces Of Remain...
They've dominated "the grid" right from Jezza on Monday... But it's hard to see how they can achieve another week of 24/7 hysteria like they've launched this week.
If the polls don't move very much (I don't think they will personally) and the government starts taking control of the narrative following Theresa's speech, this could well be the death throes of REMAIN!
We will be leaving the EU in 13 months time (give or take a month).
However, the argument will rage on for a decade. There will be winners from Brexit, and there will be losers. And the losers will be sore. Everything that goes wrong - economically - in the UK in the next five, or even ten, years will be blamed on our non-membership of the EU.
Sure but once we're out the argument is transformed because OUT becomes the status quo and REMAIN become REJOIN... Which is a whole different kettle of fish.
That's why the Forces Of Remain are so desperate to reverse it now, IMO. They know once we actually leave they've got to win a whole different argument to rejoin.
It's also the reason they want us in a customs union. That stops us signing any trade deals that would get in the way of rejoining.
Even minor changes to yesterday’s document can be hailed as victories by the UK government. It strikes me that is all part of the plan - in London and Brussels. It could just be that a lot of this is bring choreographed. The EC is a handy conduit for the national governments on both sides of the argument. The UK can attack the Commission without damaging relations in Paris and Berlin, while Paris and Berlin use the Commission to do the messy stuff. Then at the end everyone shakes hands and we end up with a much softer, more conciliatory Brexit than anyone imsgined.
Remember when people used to think Donald Trump was pro free trade?
I watched some of his rallies, he never gave the impression of being pro free trade. The one area he does seem to have changed is that he is almost more interventionist than he said he would be campaigning
Agreed. He really started by attacking NAFTA. That evolved into MAGA. Free trade never got a look in.
Even minor changes to yesterday’s document can be hailed as victories by the UK government. It strikes me that is all part of the plan - in London and Brussels. It could just be that a lot of this is bring choreographed. The EC is a handy conduit for the national governments on both sides of the argument. The UK can attack the Commission without damaging relations in Paris and Berlin, while Paris and Berlin use the Commission to do the messy stuff. Then at the end everyone shakes hands and we end up with a much softer, more conciliatory Brexit than anyone imsgined.
Exactly.
That would certainly be a step up from Cameron's renegotiation, where the document got worse for the UK with every iteration.
Remember when people used to think Donald Trump was pro free trade?
I watched some of his rallies, he never gave the impression of being pro free trade. The one area he does seem to have changed is that he is almost more interventionist than he said he would be campaigning
Given the number of White House departures, it's got to be said that he's doing well on 'draining the swamp'
The EU has a strong hand, and so has fallen back on its usual arrogance and condescension when it feels strong. It's an approach that is not necessary when it only enhances the position of UK hardliners, which is not without some cost to the EU if it leads to no deal at all.
Even minor changes to yesterday’s document can be hailed as victories by the UK government. It strikes me that is all part of the plan - in London and Brussels. It could just be that a lot of this is bring choreographed. The EC is a handy conduit for the national governments on both sides of the argument. The UK can attack the Commission without damaging relations in Paris and Berlin, while Paris and Berlin use the Commission to do the messy stuff. Then at the end everyone shakes hands and we end up with a much softer, more conciliatory Brexit than anyone imsgined.
I hope you are right Joff. But there is an increasing risk that the fanatics on both sides make such a sensible compromise very difficult.
Chatted this week to a Remain voter with a Tory background (currently floating) - she says that she's been struck by the lack of magnaminity of Leave supporters towards the 48% - she gets that we'll leave and is ready to accept it, but would like a bit of sympathy for those who lost. She'll like May's speech from the sound of it, even if it doesn't have much substance.
No more citizens of nowhere, then; no more enemies of the people. Maybe, just maybe, she’ll make the speech she should have made a year ago.
If it does get a positive response from Brussels it will confirm this week has all been a co-ordinated dance. And that will be the best news possible. Here’s hoping.
The EU has a strong hand, and so has fallen back on its usual arrogance and condescension when it feels strong. It's an approach that is not necessary when it only enhances the position of UK hardliners, which is not without some cost to the EU if it leads to no deal at all.
Even minor changes to yesterday’s document can be hailed as victories by the UK government. It strikes me that is all part of the plan - in London and Brussels. It could just be that a lot of this is bring choreographed. The EC is a handy conduit for the national governments on both sides of the argument. The UK can attack the Commission without damaging relations in Paris and Berlin, while Paris and Berlin use the Commission to do the messy stuff. Then at the end everyone shakes hands and we end up with a much softer, more conciliatory Brexit than anyone imsgined.
I wonder if the people involved on all sides are competent enough to pull that off.
It clearly didn't work with Cameron's 'renegotiation'.
Although Charles reported that the French were expecting a year and a half of negotiating while Cameron wanted only a day and a half.
I don't quite know what your intention is to be so joyful with such comments - it would be very short sighted of the EU to not give a damn what UK voters think, since the EU says it wants a deal, and what UK voters think (or at least what the political parties think the voters think) will be significant in deciding if we can come to a deal.
Are you saying the EU are idiots because they willfully ignore a relevant factor? And that the EU will exert pressure to force outside nations to bend to their whim rather than work as external partners? And these are positive aspects of the EU?
It seems to me I have a higher view of the EU, its aims, and its reasonableness than you or Mr Clarkson.
Even minor changes to yesterday’s document can be hailed as victories by the UK government. It strikes me that is all part of the plan - in London and Brussels. It could just be that a lot of this is bring choreographed. The EC is a handy conduit for the national governments on both sides of the argument. The UK can attack the Commission without damaging relations in Paris and Berlin, while Paris and Berlin use the Commission to do the messy stuff. Then at the end everyone shakes hands and we end up with a much softer, more conciliatory Brexit than anyone imsgined.
Exactly.
That would certainly be a step up from Cameron's renegotiation, where the document got worse for the UK with every iteration.
While they told us how lucky we were to get anything and to stop moaning, undermining any positive noises Cameron could make it about it, since it was clear the EU did not really believe in any reform or concessions.
Another urgent priority is to establish the EU in its rightful place as a great power on the global stage.
The reversal of Brexit will be the moment the EU truly arrives as a great power on the global stage. It will have far more geopolitical significance than the Brexit vote itself, which turned out to be a damp squib.
To be a great power, you have to be prepared to take casualties and force your enemies to bend to your will.
I don't think the EU has that appetite.
Parliament has a duty to consider the well-being of the (little) people, says John Major.
Question for debate - would remainers be so contemptuous of the ballot box if the UK had a Second Amendment?
No more citizens of nowhere, then; no more enemies of the people. Maybe, just maybe, she’ll make the speech she should have made a year ago.
If it does get a positive response from Brussels it will confirm this week has all been a co-ordinated dance. And that will be the best news possible. Here’s hoping.
Citizens of Nowhere referred to multinationals not paying taxes. Enemies of the People was never said or supported by May. Her rhetoric has talked about being outward looking and tolerant all along. You were just too in the Remain echo chamber to notice.
I don't quite know what your intention is to be so joyful with such comments - it would be very short sighted of the EU to not give a damn what UK voters think, since the EU says it wants a deal, and what UK voters think (or at least what the political parties think the voters think) will be significant in deciding if we can come to a deal.
Are you saying the EU are idiots because they willfully ignore a relevant factor? And that the EU will exert pressure to force outside nations to bend to their whim rather than work as external partners? And these are positive aspects of the EU?
It seems to me I have a higher view of the EU, its aims, and its reasonableness than you or Mr Clarkson.
It's not a matter of the EU's reasonableness or otherwise.
Power and control are two sides of the same coin. We haven't taken back control - we've given it away.
Rumours are they are going for a de facto Governor of Yorkshire.
It has the name, YMCA (Yorkshire Mayoral Combined Authority)
So another government U-turn. 'Nothing has changed! Nothing has changed!'
Can I be the first to say #Hilary4Mayor
Dan Jarvis is going for it.
I thought he was after the Sheffield job?
If this deal people are hinting at, it will supersede that, it will cover the whole of Yorkshire, not just the Sheffield City Region.
That's weird. Leeds, Bradford, Harrogate, Driffield, Richmond, Hull have nothing in common with Sheffield.
Oh we do, we all think everyone who isn't from Yorkshire, especially Lancastrians and Southerners are shite.
It's people from the Midlands I feel sorry for - people deride northerners, or southerners, but midlanders tend to just get ignored unless they are from one of the big conurbations.
Chatted this week to a Remain voter with a Tory background (currently floating) - she says that she's been struck by the lack of magnaminity of Leave supporters towards the 48% - she gets that we'll leave and is ready to accept it, but would like a bit of sympathy for those who lost. She'll like May's speech from the sound of it, even if it doesn't have much substance.
Well they made Remain supporters Prime Minister, Chancellor, Home Secretary etc
John Harris looks at the issue from the opposite perspective:
Why the f##k has QT got more non-MPs than MPs on the panel this evening? Why the hell do I give a crap what some bloke from Blue Peter thinks, a show that isn't even on the mainstream telly anymore.
At this rate, they will have a panel made up entirely of the likes of Corbyn's fav Brenda from Margate, some random YouTuber, a black cab driver and a big issue seller.
I don't quite know what your intention is to be so joyful with such comments - it would be very short sighted of the EU to not give a damn what UK voters think, since the EU says it wants a deal, and what UK voters think (or at least what the political parties think the voters think) will be significant in deciding if we can come to a deal.
Are you saying the EU are idiots because they willfully ignore a relevant factor? And that the EU will exert pressure to force outside nations to bend to their whim rather than work as external partners? And these are positive aspects of the EU?
It seems to me I have a higher view of the EU, its aims, and its reasonableness than you or Mr Clarkson.
It's not a matter of the EU's reasonableness or otherwise.
Power and control are two sides of the same coin. We haven't taken back control - we've given it away.
You have no concept of freedom do you? None that I can detect.
I don't quite know what your intention is to be so joyful with such comments - it would be very short sighted of the EU to not give a damn what UK voters think, since the EU says it wants a deal, and what UK voters think (or at least what the political parties think the voters think) will be significant in deciding if we can come to a deal.
Are you saying the EU are idiots because they willfully ignore a relevant factor? And that the EU will exert pressure to force outside nations to bend to their whim rather than work as external partners? And these are positive aspects of the EU?
It seems to me I have a higher view of the EU, its aims, and its reasonableness than you or Mr Clarkson.
It's not a matter of the EU's reasonableness or otherwise.
Power and control are two sides of the same coin. We haven't taken back control - we've given it away.
You have no concept of freedom do you? None that I can detect.
Freedom of the individual is the most fundamental thing I value.
The EU has a strong hand, and so has fallen back on its usual arrogance and condescension when it feels strong. It's an approach that is not necessary when it only enhances the position of UK hardliners, which is not without some cost to the EU if it leads to no deal at all.
Even minor changes to yesterday’s document can be hailed as victories by the UK government. It strikes me that is all part of the plan - in London and Brussels. It could just be that a lot of this is bring choreographed. The EC is a handy conduit for the national governments on both sides of the argument. The UK can attack the Commission without damaging relations in Paris and Berlin, while Paris and Berlin use the Commission to do the messy stuff. Then at the end everyone shakes hands and we end up with a much softer, more conciliatory Brexit than anyone imsgined.
I hope you are right Joff. But there is an increasing risk that the fanatics on both sides make such a sensible compromise very difficult.
I hope I’m right too!
What got me thinking this way was the government’s very quiet climbdown on citizens rights during the transition, which was announced yesterday to almost zero coverage because, handily enough, the Commission issued its draft paper. Also yesterday, Totota announced a new investment in Derby (I think) while stressing how vital it is to maintain current sopply lines and trade flows. I don’t think they would just have done that on the off-chance it’ll happen. Now we have May’s speech. Let’s see what reception it gets.
The fanatics and their noise and fury are very useful cover for all this.
Rumours are they are going for a de facto Governor of Yorkshire.
It has the name, YMCA (Yorkshire Mayoral Combined Authority)
So another government U-turn. 'Nothing has changed! Nothing has changed!'
Can I be the first to say #Hilary4Mayor
Dan Jarvis is going for it.
I thought he was after the Sheffield job?
If this deal people are hinting at, it will supersede that, it will cover the whole of Yorkshire, not just the Sheffield City Region.
That's weird. Leeds, Bradford, Harrogate, Driffield, Richmond, Hull have nothing in common with Sheffield.
Oh we do, we all think everyone who isn't from Yorkshire, especially Lancastrians and Southerners are shite.
It's people from the Midlands I feel sorry for - people deride northerners, or southerners, but midlanders tend to just get ignored unless they are from one of the big conurbations.
Its worse than that.
Midlanders are often assumed to be from Birmingham.
I don't quite know what your intention is to be so joyful with such comments - it will be significant in deciding if we can come to a deal.
Are you saying the EUspects of the EU?
It seems to me I have a higher view of the EU, its aims, and its reasonableness than you or Mr Clarkson.
It's not a matter of the EU's reasonableness or otherwise.
Power and control are two sides of the same coin. We haven't taken back control - we've given it away.
No, it is about reasonableness of the EU. They want a deal, they claim, and UK voters are relevant to that. You appear to be endorsing an incredible arrogant and condescending view which proudly says the EU pays no regard to a relevant factor, even minimally. That is unreasonable and idiotic of them to do, and I don't happen to think the EU, while arrogant, is that stupid, while you seem to think they are right to be so stupid as to willfully ignore a relevant factor. Is it the most important factor? No, of course not, but what our government, whoever it is, can politically sell to the electorate is important. Why you think the EU should pay it no heed boggles my mind, when you think the EU is sensible. Sensible people don't ignore all relevant factors, even if they attach different weights to those factors and so arrive at different conclusions. And that comment is about ignoring, not weighting, and you appear to agree with it.
As to the power and control point, you've missed the point entirely as it is again about reasonableness. The EU's appeal is not supposed to be that it is the supreme power which enforces its will to its own benefit and nothing else, but that as an organisation it is, well, good. As has been repeatedly established by the fact they do want a deal with us which recognises no deal is not a benefit to them (even if it hurts us more), and setting an example in dealing fairly, even generously with outsider bodies (while not as generous as toward members) and being noble and reasonable, would show them acting to their ideals and be in their own self interest.
The picture you paint of the EU, I presume unwittingly, is one of a grasping, power hungry and bitter organisation which has no regard for harmonious relations with those weaker than itself. Frankly I seem to have a more positive opinion of the EU than you do.
This "All Yorkshire" Dominion. Is that old Yorkshire - the ridings? Or new Yorkshire - the counties? Because Saddleworth in the West Riding already has a Mayor, and Yarm, Thornaby, Middlesbrough etc here in the North Riding already have a Mayor.
Rumours are they are going for a de facto Governor of Yorkshire.
It has the name, YMCA (Yorkshire Mayoral Combined Authority)
So another government U-turn. 'Nothing has changed! Nothing has changed!'
Can I be the first to say #Hilary4Mayor
Dan Jarvis is going for it.
I thought he was after the Sheffield job?
If this deal people are hinting at, it will supersede that, it will cover the whole of Yorkshire, not just the Sheffield City Region.
That's weird. Leeds, Bradford, Harrogate, Driffield, Richmond, Hull have nothing in common with Sheffield.
Oh we do, we all think everyone who isn't from Yorkshire, especially Lancastrians and Southerners are shite.
It's people from the Midlands I feel sorry for - people deride northerners, or southerners, but midlanders tend to just get ignored unless they are from one of the big conurbations.
Rumours are they are going for a de facto Governor of Yorkshire.
It has the name, YMCA (Yorkshire Mayoral Combined Authority)
So another government U-turn. 'Nothing has changed! Nothing has changed!'
Can I be the first to say #Hilary4Mayor
Dan Jarvis is going for it.
I thought he was after the Sheffield job?
If this deal people are hinting at, it will supersede that, it will cover the whole of Yorkshire, not just the Sheffield City Region.
That's weird. Leeds, Bradford, Harrogate, Driffield, Richmond, Hull have nothing in common with Sheffield.
Oh we do, we all think everyone who isn't from Yorkshire, especially Lancastrians and Southerners are shite.
It's people from the Midlands I feel sorry for - people deride northerners, or southerners, but midlanders tend to just get ignored unless they are from one of the big conurbations.
I deride Brummies regularly.
My point exactly - general people from the midlands do not get a look in like northerners and southerners.
No more citizens of nowhere, then; no more enemies of the people. Maybe, just maybe, she’ll make the speech she should have made a year ago.
From the sound of it it literally is the speech she gave a year ago at Lancaster House.
That would be fair enough, given that the entire media and political class insist on ignoring what she said at Lancaster House.
Indeed.
I still remember the Gleeful Remainers on the night before the Florence speech predicting a soft Brexit and change of heart on SM etc. Hilarious in hindsight.
Rumours are they are going for a de facto Governor of Yorkshire.
It has the name, YMCA (Yorkshire Mayoral Combined Authority)
So another government U-turn. 'Nothing has changed! Nothing has changed!'
Can I be the first to say #Hilary4Mayor
Dan Jarvis is going for it.
I thought he was after the Sheffield job?
If this deal people are hinting at, it will supersede that, it will cover the whole of Yorkshire, not just the Sheffield City Region.
That's weird. Leeds, Bradford, Harrogate, Driffield, Richmond, Hull have nothing in common with Sheffield.
Oh we do, we all think everyone who isn't from Yorkshire, especially Lancastrians and Southerners are shite.
It's people from the Midlands I feel sorry for - people deride northerners, or southerners, but midlanders tend to just get ignored unless they are from one of the big conurbations.
I deride Brummies regularly.
My point exactly - general people from the midlands to not get a look in like northerners and southerners.
All West Midlanders are Brummies in my eyes.
East Midlanders are meh, heck their heroes are from Yorkshire, Robin of Loxley and Brian Clough.
Remember when people used to think Donald Trump was pro free trade?
Did they? Opposition to free trade is his one consistent attitude.
The problem with these kind of tariffs is that it's a slippery slope:
First, you put it on the steel. But that makes US made cars more expensive, so you put it on foreign cars. This results in a tit-for-tat, where the Chinese kill their Boeing orders. Boeing then complains about competition from Airbus in the US, and there are tariffs on imports of other airplanes.
I don't really want us to go down the plughole of protectionism, like we did in the 1920s and 30s.
Protectionism on the rise. The UK's self-removal from the world's largest free trade area could not have been more ill-timed.
The EU is not even close to being the world's largest free trade area. That is one of the most bald faced lies of the referendum campaign.
My guess is that Switzerland is the country with the greatest tariff free access in the world: EU, plus EFTA agreements, plus a flawed, but extant, agreement with China.
We are going to look back in disbelief, as we push our supermarket trolleys down the nuclear winter roads, at the fact that on the day of Putin going all Kim Il Jong on the missile front, we were bickering about Irish customs checks.
++
When the stories about Putin's enormous torpedo first surfaced a lot of "clever" people dismissed it as disinformation. Which might have made sense if it was not for the new submarines* Russia was building which appear to have a bloody great torpedo tube.
If nothing else I think we can now declare that Cold War 2.0 has begun.
* Three of them so far; one built, one being built, and one on the drawing board.
Can we have the @rcs1000 update on how long Russia's economy can survive at the current natural resources prices....
The oil price rallied, thus rendering my forecast inaccurate
I don't quite know what your intention is to be so joyful with such comments - it will be significant in deciding if we can come to a deal.
Are you saying the EUspects of the EU?
It seems to me I have a higher view of the EU, its aims, and its reasonableness than you or Mr Clarkson.
It's not a matter of the EU's reasonableness or otherwise.
Power and control are two sides of the same coin. We haven't taken back control - we've given it away.
No, it is about reasonableness of the EU. They want a deal, they claim, and UK voters are relevant to that. You appear to be endorsing an incredible arrogant and condescending view which proudly says the EU pays no regard to a relevant factor, even minimally. That is unreasonable and idiotic of them to do, and I don't happen to think the EU, while arrogant, is that stupid, while you seem to think they are right to be so stupid as to willfully ignore a relevant factor. Is it the most important factor? No, of course not, but what our government, whoever it is, can politically sell to the electorate is important. Why you think the EU should pay it no heed boggles my mind, when you think the EU is sensible. Sensible people don't ignore all relevant factors, even if they attach different weights to those factors and so arrive at different conclusions. And that comment is about ignoring, not weighting, and you appear to agree with it.
As to the power and control point, you've missed the point entirely as it is again about reasonableness. The EU's appeal is not supposed to be that it is the supreme power which enforces its will to its own benefit and nothing else, but that as an organisation it is, well, good. As has been repeatedly established by the fact they do want a deal with us which recognises no deal is not a benefit to them (even if it hurts us more), and setting an example in dealing fairly, even generously with outsider bodies (while not as generous as toward members) and being noble and reasonable, would show them acting to their ideals and be in their own self interest.
The picture you paint of the EU, I presume unwittingly, is one of a grasping, power hungry and bitter organisation which has no regard for harmonious relations with those weaker than itself. Frankly I seem to have a more positive opinion of the EU than you do.
I think William wants to be their Satrap over the UK.
Rumours are they are going for a de facto Governor of Yorkshire.
It has the name, YMCA (Yorkshire Mayoral Combined Authority)
That jobs got your name all over it...
If they give it the title Governor of Yorkshire I'm going for it.
I won't go for any job with a crap title like Mayor or First Minister.
I might consider First Lord of Yorkshire or Warden of the North.
Frankly the combined authorities merely being mayors really undermines them for me, not to mention being confusing. Some places have 3 different mayors. Lord mayors, city mayors and combined authority mayors.
I doubt they have enough power to justify being governors or wardens of the north, but it would be much more badass.
And don't get me started on PCCs, such a weak name. I'd heard people thought using Sheriff sounded too american, but I don't know if that is true.
How about Viceroy of the North.
King of the North. King of the North. It’s the stark choice.
The Percies already have the title “Kings In The North” so it would be confusing
I don't quite know what your intention is to be so joyful with such comments - it would be very short sighted of the EU to not give a damn what UK voters think, since the EU says it wants a deal, and what UK voters think (or at least what the political parties think the voters think) will be significant in deciding if we can come to a deal.
Are you saying the EU are idiots because they willfully ignore a relevant factor? And that the EU will exert pressure to force outside nations to bend to their whim rather than work as external partners? And these are positive aspects of the EU?
It seems to me I have a higher view of the EU, its aims, and its reasonableness than you or Mr Clarkson.
It's not a matter of the EU's reasonableness or otherwise.
Power and control are two sides of the same coin. We haven't taken back control - we've given it away.
You have no concept of freedom do you? None that I can detect.
Freedom of the individual is the most fundamental thing I value.
Well 17.4m individuals voted to leave. So it follows ..........
Consciously or otherwise, the EU is making it impossible for Britain to leave on decent terms, increasing the chances of a messy exit that will be damaging to all. It beggars belief that otherwise sane policymakers such as Michel Barnier could think that destabilising Europe’s second largest economy, with powerful spillover effects into Europe itself, the right way of approaching the British mutiny.
I don't quite know what your intention is to be so joyful with such comments - it will be significant in deciding if we can come to a deal.
Are you saying the EUspects of the EU?
It seems to me I have a higher view of the EU, its aims, and its reasonableness than you or Mr Clarkson.
It's not a matter of the EU's reasonableness or otherwise.
Power and control are two sides of the same coin. We haven't taken back control - we've given it away.
No, it is about reasonableness of the EU. They want a deal, they claim, and UK voters are releva The picture you paint of the EU, I presume unwittingly, is one of a grasping, power hungry and bitter organisation which has no regard for harmonious relations with those weaker than itself. Frankly I seem to have a more positive opinion of the EU than you do.
I think William wants to be their Satrap over the UK.
I just don't see why his appeal toward remaining is so often geared around inevitability of history (always a flawed concept) and how brutal the EU will be to us as a non-member, not vindictively but again as a matter of inevitability. That's the enticement of a Star Wars villain, not an appeal to the dream of a continent of varied but united culture coming together for the sake of prosperity, peace and nobility.
Rumours are they are going for a de facto Governor of Yorkshire.
It has the name, YMCA (Yorkshire Mayoral Combined Authority)
That jobs got your name all over it...
If they give it the title Governor of Yorkshire I'm going for it.
I won't go for any job with a crap title like Mayor or First Minister.
I might consider First Lord of Yorkshire or Warden of the North.
Frankly the combined authorities merely being mayors really undermines them for me, not to mention being confusing. Some places have 3 different mayors. Lord mayors, city mayors and combined authority mayors.
I doubt they have enough power to justify being governors or wardens of the north, but it would be much more badass.
And don't get me started on PCCs, such a weak name. I'd heard people thought using Sheriff sounded too american, but I don't know if that is true.
How about Viceroy of the North.
King of the North. King of the North. It’s the stark choice.
The Percies already have the title “Kings In The North” so it would be confusing
Surely not an official title, or that would be treasonous?
The EU has a strong hand, and so has fallen back on its usual arrogance and condescension when it feels strong. It's an approach that is not necessary when it only enhances the position of UK hardliners, which is not without some cost to the EU if it leads to no deal at all.
Even minor changes to yesterday’s document can be hailed as victories by the UK government. It strikes me that is all part of the plan - in London and Brussels. It could just be that a lot of this is bring choreographed. The EC is a handy conduit for the national governments on both sides of the argument. The UK can attack the Commission without damaging relations in Paris and Berlin, while Paris and Berlin use the Commission to do the messy stuff. Then at the end everyone shakes hands and we end up with a much softer, more conciliatory Brexit than anyone imsgined.
I hope you are right Joff. But there is an increasing risk that the fanatics on both sides make such a sensible compromise very difficult.
I hope I’m right too!
What got me thinking this way was the government’s very quiet climbdown on citizens rights during the transition, which was announced yesterday to almost zero coverage because, handily enough, the Commission issued its draft paper. Also yesterday, Totota announced a new investment in Derby (I think) while stressing how vital it is to maintain current sopply lines and trade flows. I don’t think they would just have done that on the off-chance it’ll happen. Now we have May’s speech. Let’s see what reception it gets.
The fanatics and their noise and fury are very useful cover for all this.
Citizenship isn’t a climb down it’s a compromise
They don’t have the Settled Citizenship pathway if they come in transition, but they can stay until they leave
I don't quite know what your intention is to be so joyful with such comments - it will be significant in deciding if we can come to a deal.
Are you saying the EUspects of the EU?
It seems to me I have a higher view of the EU, its aims, and its reasonableness than you or Mr Clarkson.
It's not a matter of the EU's reasonableness or otherwise.
Power and control are two sides of the same coin. We haven't taken back control - we've given it away.
No, it is about reasonableness of the EU. They want a deal, they claim, and UK voters are releva The picture you paint of the EU, I presume unwittingly, is one of a grasping, power hungry and bitter organisation which has no regard for harmonious relations with those weaker than itself. Frankly I seem to have a more positive opinion of the EU than you do.
I think William wants to be their Satrap over the UK.
I just don't see why his appeal toward remaining is so often geared around inevitability of history (always a flawed concept) and how brutal the EU will be to us as a non-member, not vindictively but again as a matter of inevitability. That's the enticement of a Star Wars villain, not an appeal to the dream of a continent of varied but united culture coming together for the sake of prosperity, peace and nobility.
For a lot of powerful people, a vote in favour of more Europe is irrevocable. A vote against must always be reversed.
When people who have been used to having things go their way experience the opposite you get to see how much of the facist they have within them.
Fascist is a bit strong, but their commitment to democracy and listening to the "will of the people" is a bit more flexible than is ideal.
It's terribly hard to be used to winning, and then to lose.
Who are these people that always won, then lost for the first time in 2016?
The Establishment doesn’t like to lose
A bit of it won, a bit of it lost. It’s all still there.
Yep. The pretence of 'outsider' status was played most heavily by Leave, of course, but let us not pretend that the amorphous mass of 'The Establishment' did not include plenty of leave sentiment. That was part of why things came to a head after all, and why it did then and still does have people in business, academic, politics, media etc who promote all varieties of Brexit.
We are going to look back in disbelief, as we push our supermarket trolleys down the nuclear winter roads, at the fact that on the day of Putin going all Kim Il Jong on the missile front, we were bickering about Irish customs checks.
Putin is our friend. It's Juncker we should be worrying about.
Anti-EU articles published by Russian media outlets had four times more social media impact before the Brexit vote than the official Leave campaigns, analysis suggests.
Odd then that the demographic most tuned into social media and Twitter voted heavily remain and those least likely to use it voted heavily leave?
Perhaps all those working class, older, northern etc etc leavers are secret Twitter addicts.
Of course none of this was raised at all in any form - until remainers lost. Because they just can't accept even now remain lost fair and square. If it's not buses its Putin and if that doesn't fly try revert back to they are just stupid and bigots rinse and repeat.
I don't quite know what your intention is to be so joyful with such comments - it would be very short sighted of the EU to not give a damn what UK voters think, since the EU says it wants a deal, and what UK voters think (or at least what the political parties think the voters think) will be significant in deciding if we can come to a deal.
Are you saying the EU are idiots because they willfully ignore a relevant factor? And that the EU will exert pressure to force outside nations to bend to their whim rather than work as external partners? And these are positive aspects of the EU?
It seems to me I have a higher view of the EU, its aims, and its reasonableness than you or Mr Clarkson.
Er! The EU would like a deal, they do not want or need one. If it goes to a hard Brexit, they will happily slap full tariffs and enforce border controls and we will have to play by their rules, whether we like it or not, or whether we are prepared or not. They, however would prefer friendly relations as it makes trade more easier. But we, yes we, the ones who voted to leave, have to tell them how we will follow their trade rules. We are the supplicants, because we caused the problem, and we have no right to demand anything. To be honest, the type of semi detached membership that we enjoyed, and was more of a nuisance to the other 27, meant that they are probably quite relieved to see the back of us.
I don't quite know what your intention is to be so joyful with such comments - it would be very short sighted of the EU to not give a damn what UK voters think, since the EU says it wants a deal, and what UK voters think (or at least what the political parties think the voters think) will be significant in deciding if we can come to a deal.
Are you saying the EU are idiots because they willfully ignore a relevant factor? And that the EU will exert pressure to force outside nations to bend to their whim rather than work as external partners? And these are positive aspects of the EU?
It seems to me I have a higher view of the EU, its aims, and its reasonableness than you or Mr Clarkson.
Er! The EU would like a deal, they do not want or need one. If it goes to a hard Brexit, they will happily slap full tariffs and enforce border controls and we will have to play by their rules, whether we like it or not, or whether we are prepared or not. They, however would prefer friendly relations as it makes trade more easier.
That's the point I have been trying to make (except for where you say they would like, but not want, a deal - that makes no sense, as if they would like a deal, clearly they must want it, even if they do not need it), that they prefer friendly relations - that guy and william however seem to be suggesting the EU no longer gives a damn about UK opinion, which is a factor in whether our politicians can come to a deal, and therefore arrive at the solution the EU would prefer. That would be a very silly thing for them to do if as we agree they would like a deal, since they would be undermining their own chances by ignoring relevant factors.
Sure if they cannot get one they might do all manner of things, but they are working for one, we are told, and that means they do care UK opinion to some degree, though obviously not as much as we do which is fine. To suggest they do not care at all would be to suggest they have an outcome they have stated they would prefer, but they are intent on undermining their own efforts to achieve it.
I don't quite know what your intention is to be so joyful with such comments - it would be very short sighted of the EU to not give a damn what UK voters think, since the EU says it wants a deal, and what UK voters think (or at least what the political parties think the voters think) will be significant in deciding if we can come to a deal.
Are you saying the EU are idiots because they willfully ignore a relevant factor? And that the EU will exert pressure to force outside nations to bend to their whim rather than work as external partners? And these are positive aspects of the EU?
It seems to me I have a higher view of the EU, its aims, and its reasonableness than you or Mr Clarkson.
Er! The EU would like a deal, they do not want or need one. If it goes to a hard Brexit, they will happily slap full tariffs and enforce border controls and we will have to play by their rules, whether we like it or not, or whether we are prepared or not. They, however would prefer friendly relations as it makes trade more easier. But we, yes we, the ones who voted to leave, have to tell them how we will follow their trade rules. We are the supplicants, because we caused the problem, and we have no right to demand anything. To be honest, the type of semi detached membership that we enjoyed, and was more of a nuisance to the other 27, meant that they are probably quite relieved to see the back of us.
They may well be relieved to see the back of us.
But, we have caused no problem. A 50 entitles any member State to secede.
David Miliband. Another colossus among pygmies. How could the Tory Brexiteers have become so abject. I saw Boris Johnson on TV this evening and he didn't even look interesting as the clown he was trying to be.
I don't quite know what your intention is to be so joyful with such comments - it will be significant in deciding if we can come to a deal.
Are you saying the EUspects of the EU?
It seems to me I have a higher view of the EU, its aims, and its reasonableness than you or Mr Clarkson.
It's not a matter of the EU's reasonableness or otherwise.
Power and control are two sides of the same coin. We haven't taken back control - we've given it away.
No, it is about reasonableness of the EU. They want a deal, they claim, and UK voters are releva The picture you paint of the EU, I presume unwittingly, is one of a grasping, power hungry and bitter organisation which has no regard for harmonious relations with those weaker than itself. Frankly I seem to have a more positive opinion of the EU than you do.
I think William wants to be their Satrap over the UK.
I just don't see why his appeal toward remaining is so often geared around inevitability of history (always a flawed concept) and how brutal the EU will be to us as a non-member, not vindictively but again as a matter of inevitability. That's the enticement of a Star Wars villain, not an appeal to the dream of a continent of varied but united culture coming together for the sake of prosperity, peace and nobility.
Rumours are they are going for a de facto Governor of Yorkshire.
It has the name, YMCA (Yorkshire Mayoral Combined Authority)
That jobs got your name all over it...
If they give it the title Governor of Yorkshire I'm going for it.
I won't go for any job with a crap title like Mayor or First Minister.
I might consider First Lord of Yorkshire or Warden of the North.
Frankly the combined authorities merely being mayors really undermines them for me, not to mention being confusing. Some places have 3 different mayors. Lord mayors, city mayors and combined authority mayors.
I doubt they have enough power to justify being governors or wardens of the north, but it would be much more badass.
And don't get me started on PCCs, such a weak name. I'd heard people thought using Sheriff sounded too american, but I don't know if that is true.
How about Viceroy of the North.
King of the North. King of the North. It’s the stark choice.
We are going to look back in disbelief, as we push our supermarket trolleys down the nuclear winter roads, at the fact that on the day of Putin going all Kim Il Jong on the missile front, we were bickering about Irish customs checks.
Putin is our friend. It's Juncker we should be worrying about.
Anti-EU articles published by Russian media outlets had four times more social media impact before the Brexit vote than the official Leave campaigns, analysis suggests.
Odd then that the demographic most tuned into social media and Twitter voted heavily remain and those least likely to use it voted heavily leave?
Perhaps all those working class, older, northern etc etc leavers are secret Twitter addicts.
Of course none of this was raised at all in any form - until remainers lost. Because they just can't accept even now remain lost fair and square. If it's not buses its Putin and if that doesn't fly try revert back to they are just stupid and bigots rinse and repeat.
They're like the caricature Englishman abroad - repeat the same arguments JUST LOUDER. And when that fails shrug at the uncomprehending thickos.....
I don't quite know what your intention is to be so joyful with such comments - it would be very short sighted of the EU to not give a damn what UK voters think, since the EU says it wants a deal, and what UK voters think (or at least what the political parties think the voters think) will be significant in deciding if we can come to a deal.
Are you saying the EU are idiots because they willfully ignore a relevant factor? And that the EU will exert pressure to force outside nations to bend to their whim rather than work as external partners? And these are positive aspects of the EU?
It seems to me I have a higher view of the EU, its aims, and its reasonableness than you or Mr Clarkson.
Er! The EU would like a deal, they do not want or need one. If it goes to a hard Brexit, they will happily slap full tariffs and enforce border controls and we will have to play by their rules, whether we like it or not, or whether we are prepared or not. They, however would prefer friendly relations as it makes trade more easier. But we, yes we, the ones who voted to leave, have to tell them how we will follow their trade rules. We are the supplicants, because we caused the problem, and we have no right to demand anything. To be honest, the type of semi detached membership that we enjoyed, and was more of a nuisance to the other 27, meant that they are probably quite relieved to see the back of us.
They may well be relieved to see the back of us.
But, we have caused no problem. A 50 entitles any member State to secede.
"we have caused no problem"? Are you serious or just being satirical? The potential break up of UK/EU relationships of trading and manufacturing partnerships, then the Europeans having to find replacements within the EU or within the other 170 odd countries that the EU already has in place trade treaties with. Within the EU, the UK had trading treaties available with the 27 and 170, that we now have very few major UK owned companies, services, industrial, manufacturing or utility means we have very little to bargain with or offer. And lastly, I do realise that many Brexiteers were having wet dreams about the UK leading the breakup of the EU, but seriously, can you really see that happening now
For a lot of powerful people, a vote in favour of more Europe is irrevocable. A vote against must always be reversed.
When people who have been used to having things go their way experience the opposite you get to see how much of the facist they have within them.
Fascist is a bit strong, but their commitment to democracy and listening to the "will of the people" is a bit more flexible than is ideal.
It's terribly hard to be used to winning, and then to lose.
Who are these people that always won, then lost for the first time in 2016?
The Establishment doesn’t like to lose
A bit of it won, a bit of it lost. It’s all still there.
Yep. The pretence of 'outsider' status was played most heavily by Leave, of course, but let us not pretend that the amorphous mass of 'The Establishment' did not include plenty of leave sentiment. That was part of why things came to a head after all, and why it did then and still does have people in business, academic, politics, media etc who promote all varieties of Brexit.
I dont know of many credible academics who who promote BREXIT......by its very nature learning and enlightenment is about being open and sharing, not borders and barriers
For a lot of powerful people, a vote in favour of more Europe is irrevocable. A vote against must always be reversed.
When people who have been used to having things go their way experience the opposite you get to see how much of the facist they have within them.
Fascist is a bit strong, but their commitment to democracy and listening to the "will of the people" is a bit more flexible than is ideal.
It's terribly hard to be used to winning, and then to lose.
Who are these people that always won, then lost for the first time in 2016?
The Establishment doesn’t like to lose
A bit of it won, a bit of it lost. It’s all still there.
Yep. The pretence of 'outsider' status was played most heavily by Leave, of course, but let us not pretend that the amorphous mass of 'The Establishment' did not include plenty of leave sentiment. That was part of why things came to a head after all, and why it did then and still does have people in business, academic, politics, media etc who promote all varieties of Brexit.
I dont know of many credible academics who who promote BREXIT......by its very nature learning and enlightenment is about being open and sharing, not borders and barriers
That invites an argument as to who decides who is 'credible' or not, but the point was that senior people can be found in all these fields who do support it (perhaps even on a super soft basis of open borders post brexit), not that they formed a majority in them, and the poorly defined Establishment therefore clearly had elements who backed leave, and were not merely plucky outsiders.
I don't quite know what your intention is to be so joyful with such comments - it would be very short sighted of the EU to not give a damn what UK voters think, since the EU says it wants a deal, and what UK voters think (or at least what the political parties think the voters think) will be significant in deciding if we can come to a deal.
Are you saying the EU are idiots because they willfully ignore a relevant factor? And that the EU will exert pressure to force outside nations to bend to their whim rather than work as external partners? And these are positive aspects of the EU?
It seems to me I have a higher view of the EU, its aims, and its reasonableness than you or Mr Clarkson.
Er! The EU would like a deal, they do not want or need one. If it goes to a hard Brexit, they will happily slap full tariffs and enforce border controls and we will have to play by their rules, whether we like it or not, or whether we are prepared or not. They, however would prefer friendly relations as it makes trade more easier. But we, yes we, the ones who voted to leave, have to tell them how we will follow their trade rules. We are the supplicants, because we caused the problem, and we have no right to demand anything. To be honest, the type of semi detached membership that we enjoyed, and was more of a nuisance to the other 27, meant that they are probably quite relieved to see the back of us.
They may well be relieved to see the back of us.
But, we have caused no problem. A 50 entitles any member State to secede.
the breakup of the EU, but seriously, can you really see that happening now
Not because of us leaving, no - indeed the greater focus on the Eurozone may lead to economic reform - but its the EU's democratic deficit which will be its undoing - and the fact that they can airily wave away the demos of one of its largest members deciding to leave as "Britain's problem" is very telling. The borderline corrupt appointment of Selmeyr is another straw in the wind....
Presumably because the cabinet agreed on managed divergence...
More because a couple of members disagreed she could say it according to James Forsyth
“today's Cabinet meeting, where May's second big speech was discussed. James reports that while most ministers applauded the content of the speech, there was one particular area of controversy. Both David Davis and Boris Johnson pushed back against the idea that the UK should make a ‘binding commitment’ to align with EU rules and regulations in certain sectors.”
I was just amused by the purported quote that their weapons were 'invincible in the face of all existing and future systems of both missile defence and air defence'
'All future systems' Russia? That is some impressive development to assume the people of the 29th century won't be able to come up with a counter measure.
Comments
https://twitter.com/APHClarkson/status/969338964074221568
https://twitter.com/APHClarkson/status/969339678083215360
Chatted this week to a Remain voter with a Tory background (currently floating) - she says that she's been struck by the lack of magnaminity of Leave supporters towards the 48% - she gets that we'll leave and is ready to accept it, but would like a bit of sympathy for those who lost. She'll like May's speech from the sound of it, even if it doesn't have much substance.
If it does get a positive response from Brussels it will confirm this week has all been a co-ordinated dance. And that will be the best news possible. Here’s hoping.
It clearly didn't work with Cameron's 'renegotiation'.
Although Charles reported that the French were expecting a year and a half of negotiating while Cameron wanted only a day and a half.
Are you saying the EU are idiots because they willfully ignore a relevant factor? And that the EU will exert pressure to force outside nations to bend to their whim rather than work as external partners? And these are positive aspects of the EU?
It seems to me I have a higher view of the EU, its aims, and its reasonableness than you or Mr Clarkson.
Seriously this threatening bollocks just confirms the rightness of leaving.
Question for debate - would remainers be so contemptuous of the ballot box if the UK had a Second Amendment?
https://twitter.com/APHClarkson/status/969342313045594112
Power and control are two sides of the same coin. We haven't taken back control - we've given it away.
Well they made Remain supporters Prime Minister, Chancellor, Home Secretary etc
John Harris looks at the issue from the opposite perspective:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/26/have-nots-denigration-brexit-trump
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/03/01/theresa-may-sets-five-tests-brexit-success-warns-brussels-relations/
At this rate, they will have a panel made up entirely of the likes of Corbyn's fav Brenda from Margate, some random YouTuber, a black cab driver and a big issue seller.
What got me thinking this way was the government’s very quiet climbdown on citizens rights during the transition, which was announced yesterday to almost zero coverage because, handily enough, the Commission issued its draft paper. Also yesterday, Totota announced a new investment in Derby (I think) while stressing how vital it is to maintain current sopply lines and trade flows. I don’t think they would just have done that on the off-chance it’ll happen. Now we have May’s speech. Let’s see what reception it gets.
The fanatics and their noise and fury are very useful cover for all this.
Midlanders are often assumed to be from Birmingham.
As to the power and control point, you've missed the point entirely as it is again about reasonableness. The EU's appeal is not supposed to be that it is the supreme power which enforces its will to its own benefit and nothing else, but that as an organisation it is, well, good. As has been repeatedly established by the fact they do want a deal with us which recognises no deal is not a benefit to them (even if it hurts us more), and setting an example in dealing fairly, even generously with outsider bodies (while not as generous as toward members) and being noble and reasonable, would show them acting to their ideals and be in their own self interest.
The picture you paint of the EU, I presume unwittingly, is one of a grasping, power hungry and bitter organisation which has no regard for harmonious relations with those weaker than itself. Frankly I seem to have a more positive opinion of the EU than you do.
I still remember the Gleeful Remainers on the night before the Florence speech predicting a soft Brexit and change of heart on SM etc. Hilarious in hindsight.
East Midlanders are meh, heck their heroes are from Yorkshire, Robin of Loxley and Brian Clough.
But I'm thinking that the EU comes next.
Where do you think you get greater FTA access?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/03/01/eu-making-decent-brexit-impossible-britain-wont-tame-easily/
The rest of the UK cut off from the brilliant civilisation that is Yorkshire.
They don’t have the Settled Citizenship pathway if they come in transition, but they can stay until they leave
History twists and turns.
Perhaps all those working class, older, northern etc etc leavers are secret Twitter addicts.
Of course none of this was raised at all in any form - until remainers lost. Because they just can't accept even now remain lost fair and square. If it's not buses its Putin and if that doesn't fly try revert back to they are just stupid and bigots rinse and repeat.
Coat ?
Sure if they cannot get one they might do all manner of things, but they are working for one, we are told, and that means they do care UK opinion to some degree, though obviously not as much as we do which is fine. To suggest they do not care at all would be to suggest they have an outcome they have stated they would prefer, but they are intent on undermining their own efforts to achieve it.
But, we have caused no problem. A 50 entitles any member State to secede.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXAnxAA73xM
“today's Cabinet meeting, where May's second big speech was discussed. James reports that while most ministers applauded the content of the speech, there was one particular area of controversy. Both David Davis and Boris Johnson pushed back against the idea that the UK should make a ‘binding commitment’ to align with EU rules and regulations in certain sectors.”
'All future systems' Russia? That is some impressive development to assume the people of the 29th century won't be able to come up with a counter measure.