The problem with the accession in reverse timetable is the lack of desirable alternatives. We like our car and airplane factories with their supply chains. We like our financial services providing tax for healthcare. We don't really want to go back to customs controls on the Irish border. We won't get third country trade arrangements as good as the ones we have already. There will be the temptation to hold back until the alternatives.are better.
For about the billionth time, it isn't all about Lattes.
Many, many millions of people will be happy to end free movement, gain control of our immigration policy, regain our seat at the WTO and be able to vary our VAT levels. More still will be glad to regain the democratic rights over domestic policy that British politicians foolishly
These are concrete gains that will come from Brexit.
None of them will improve anyone's life one iota - especially when set against the disruption and adverse economic impact which leaving is going to cause. We are opting out of a huge single market just as a trade war is kicking off. Perfect!
Condescension alert.
The freedom to legislate freely on domestic policy, control our immigration policy, vary our sales tax and construct a tariff schedule designed solely for this people of this country, rather than a compromise for a large bloc, will certainly improve lives of the people of this country.
Economic outcomes will be FAR more influenced by domestic policy (and the economic behaviour of our people) than by our leaving the EU.
"The freedom to legislate freely on domestic policy, control our immigration policy, vary our sales tax and construct a tariff schedule designed solely for this people of this country, rather than a compromise for a large bloc, will certainly improve lives of the people of this country."
How exactly?
Go you are so right - self determination is so overrated - cancel elections and make Corbyn the President.
The average person in the street will have not one jot more ability to alter the way they are governed after Brexit. The vast majority of votes are completely wasted in our FPT system anyway; most MPs follow Sir Joseph Porter's approach and alwys vote as their party tells them too; in all likelihood we will end up largely following EU rules we'll have had no chance to influence.
You either believe in democracy or you don’t. You don’t.
If the transition is really 5-10 years long then the most likely way it will end is the UK rejoining the EU
X + 1 year, leave single market, with free movement, and the following EU administered bodies (ESA, Erasmus, etc.)
I thought we wanted to stay in Erasmus, and the ESA is not an EU body.
Getting out of Erasmus is essential for the longevity of the The Brexit Project as, every year, it creates a cohort of young people with a pan-European identity. Europa Endlos...
I never really understood the wailing about appearing on RT, beyond propaganda purposes to condemn individuals for appearing on there is there actually a practical complaint?
Actively taking money from a horrific regime to participate in their propaganda war against the West?
I remember at one point watching Alan Johnson (recently retired Labour MP, not a Corbyn fan) on Sam Delaney's news thing being interviewed. It seemed to be mainly about the recent election and internal battles regarding the Labour party.
If he was promoting anti Western propaganda in that interview then I am actually incredibly impressed, you certainly wouldn't have noticed it in the interview.
I don't want to talk the guy down but given he lead the official part of the Labour remain campaign I am doubting he is such a skilled propagandist....
Edit: Also to clarify you believe that the Tory MPs going on RT are going on there to participate in Russia's propaganda war on the West?
That is their goal?
I can somewhat understand that some people like to think the opposition are actively traitors but that seems a bit too far....
PROVIDENCE, R.I. — Rhode Island residents will have to pay a $20 fee to access sexually explicit content online if a recently introduced bill passes the General Assembly this session.
The problem with the accession in reverse timetable is the lack of desirable alternatives. We like our car and airplane factories with their supply chains. We like our financial services providing tax for healthcare. We don't really want to go back to customs controls on the Irish border. We won't get third country trade arrangements as good as the ones we have already. There will be the temptation to hold back until the alternatives.are better.
For about the billionth time, it isn't all about Lattes.
Many, many millions of people will be happy to end free movement, gain control of our immigration policy, regain our seat at the WTO and be able to vary our VAT levels. More still will be glad to regain the democratic rights over domestic policy that British politicians foolishly
These are concrete gains that will come from Brexit.
None of them will improve anyone's life one iota - especially when set against the disruption and adverse economic impact which leaving is going to cause. We are opting out of a huge single market just as a trade war is kicking off. Perfect!
Condescension alert.
The freedom es of the people of this country.
Economic outcomes will be FAR more influenced by domestic policy (and the economic behaviour of our people) than by our leaving the EU.
"The freedom to legislate freely on domestic policy, control our immigration policy, vary our sales tax and construct a tariff schedule designed solely for this people of this country, rather than a compromise for a large bloc, will certainly improve lives of the people of this country."
How exactly?
Go you are so right - self determination is so overrated - cancel elections and make Corbyn the President.
The average person in the street will have not one jot more ability to alter the way they are governed after Brexit. The vast majority of votes are completely wasted in our FPT system anyway; most MPs follow Sir Joseph Porter's approach and alwys vote as their party tells them too; in all likelihood we will end up largely following EU rules we'll have had no chance to influence.
You either believe in democracy or you don’t. You don’t.
Disagreeing with you does not equate with not believing in democracy.
The problem with the accession in reverse timetable is the lack of desirable alternatives. We like our car and airplane factories with their supply chains. We like our financial services providing tax for healthcare. We don't really want to go back to customs controls on the Irish border. We won't get third country trade arrangements as good as the ones we have already. There will be the temptation to hold back until the alternatives.are better.
For about the billionth time, it isn't all about Lattes.
Many, many millions of people will be happy to end free movement, gain control of our immigration policy, regain our seat at the WTO and be able to vary our VAT levels. More still will be glad to regain the democratic rights over domestic policy that British politicians foolishly
These are concrete gains that will come from Brexit.
None of them will improve anyone's life one iota - especially when set against the disruption and adverse economic impact which leaving is going to cause. We are opting out of a huge single market just as a trade war is kicking off. Perfect!
Condescension alert.
The freedom es of the people of this country.
Economic outcomes will be FAR more influenced by domestic policy (and the economic behaviour of our people) than by our leaving the EU.
"The freedom to legislate freely on domestic policy, control our immigration policy, vary our sales tax and construct a tariff schedule designed solely for this people of this country, rather than a compromise for a large bloc, will certainly improve lives of the people of this country."
How exactly?
Go you are so right - self determination is so overrated - cancel elections and make Corbyn the President.
The average person in the street will have not one jot more ability to alter the way they are governed after Brexit. The vast majority of votes are completely wasted in our FPT system anyway; most MPs follow Sir Joseph Porter's approach and alwys vote as their party tells them too; in all likelihood we will end up largely following EU rules we'll have had no chance to influence.
You either believe in democracy or you don’t. You don’t.
Disagreeing with you does not equate with not believing in democracy.
What!?!
Crap, I owe a lot of people an apology in that case.
The problem with the accession in reverse timetable is the lack of desirable alternatives. We like our car and airplane factories with their supply chains. We like our financial services providing tax for healthcare. We don't really want to go back to customs controls on the Irish border. We won't get third country trade arrangements as good as the ones we have already. There will be the temptation to hold back until the alternatives.are better.
For about the billionth time, it isn't all about Lattes.
Many, many millions of people will be happy to end free movement, gain control of our immigration policy, regain our seat at the WTO and be able to vary our VAT levels. More still will be glad to regain the democratic rights over domestic policy that British politicians foolishly
These are concrete gains that will come from Brexit.
None of them will improve anyone's life one iota - especially when set against the disruption and adverse economic impact which leaving is going to cause. We are opting out of a huge single market just as a trade war is kicking off. Perfect!
Condescension alert.
The freedom es of the people of this country.
Economic outcomes will be FAR more influenced by domestic policy (and the economic behaviour of our people) than by our leaving the EU.
"The freedom to legislate freely on domestic policy, control our immigration policy, vary our sales tax and construct a tariff schedule designed solely for this people of this country, rather than a compromise for a large bloc, will certainly improve lives of the people of this country."
How exactly?
Go you are so right - self determination is so overrated - cancel elections and make Corbyn the President.
The average person in the street will have not one jot more ability to alter the way they are governed after Brexit. The vast majority of votes are completely wasted in our FPT system anyway; most MPs follow Sir Joseph Porter's approach and alwys vote as their party tells them too; in all likelihood we will end up largely following EU rules we'll have had no chance to influence.
You either believe in democracy or you don’t. You don’t.
Disagreeing with you does not equate with not believing in democracy.
The problem with the accession in reverse timetable is the lack of desirable alternatives. We like our car and airplane factories with their supply chains. We like our financial services providing tax for healthcare. We don't really want to go back to customs controls on the Irish border. We won't get third country trade arrangements as good as the ones we have already. There will be the temptation to hold back until the alternatives.are better.
For about the billionth time, it isn't all about Lattes.
Many, many millions of people will be happy to end free movement, gain control of our immigration policy, regain our seat at the WTO and be able to vary our VAT levels. More still will be glad to regain the democratic rights over domestic policy that British politicians foolishly
These are concrete gains that will come from Brexit.
None of them will improve anyone's life one iota - especially when set against the disruption and adverse economic impact which leaving is going to cause. We are opting out of a huge single market just as a trade war is kicking off. Perfect!
Condescension alert.
The freedom es of the people of this country.
Economic outcomes will be FAR more influenced by domestic policy (and the economic behaviour of our people) than by our leaving the EU.
"The freedom to legislate freely on domestic policy, control our immigration policy, vary our sales tax and construct a tariff schedule designed solely for this people of this country, rather than a compromise for a large bloc, will certainly improve lives of the people of this country."
How exactly?
Go you are so right - self determination is so overrated - cancel elections and make Corbyn the President.
The average person in the street will have not one jot more ability to alter the way they are governed after Brexit. The vast majority of votes are completely wasted in our FPT system anyway; most MPs follow Sir Joseph Porter's approach and alwys vote as their party tells them too; in all likelihood we will end up largely following EU rules we'll have had no chance to influence.
You either believe in democracy or you don’t. You don’t.
Disagreeing with you does not equate with not believing in democracy.
TGOHF appears to believe in a form of democracy that brooks no dissent
I never really understood the wailing about appearing on RT, beyond propaganda purposes to condemn individuals for appearing on there is there actually a practical complaint?
Actively taking money from a horrific regime to participate in their propaganda war against the West?
I remember at one point watching Alan Johnson (recently retired Labour MP, not a Corbyn fan) on Sam Delaney's news thing being interviewed. It seemed to be mainly about the recent election and internal battles regarding the Labour party.
If he was promoting anti Western propaganda in that interview then I am actually incredibly impressed, you certainly wouldn't have noticed it in the interview.
I don't want to talk the guy down but given he lead the official part of the Labour remain campaign I am doubting he is such a skilled propagandist....
Edit: Also to clarify you believe that the Tory MPs going on RT are going on there to participate in Russia's propaganda war on the West?
That is their goal?
I can somewhat understand that some people like to think the opposition are actively traitors but that seems a bit too far....
People going on Russia Today and Press TV are either deliberately sympathetic to the regime in question or useful idiots to their cause. Both of which should be disqualifying from being British Prime Minister.
For about the billionth time, it isn't all about Lattes.
Many, many millions of people will be happy to end free movement, gain control of our immigration policy, regain our seat at the WTO and be able to vary our VAT levels. More still will be glad to regain the democratic rights over domestic policy that British politicians foolishly
These are concrete gains that will come from Brexit.
None of them will improve anyone's life one iota - especially when set against the disruption and adverse economic impact which leaving is going to cause. We are opting out of a huge single market just as a trade war is kicking off. Perfect!
Condescension alert.
The freedom es of the people of this country.
Economic outcomes will be FAR more influenced by domestic policy (and the economic behaviour of our people) than by our leaving the EU.
"The freedom to legislate freely on domestic policy, control our immigration policy, vary our sales tax and construct a tariff schedule designed solely for this people of this country, rather than a compromise for a large bloc, will certainly improve lives of the people of this country."
How exactly?
Go you are so right - self determination is so overrated - cancel elections and make Corbyn the President.
The average person in the street will have not one jot more ability to alter the way they are governed after Brexit. The vast majority of votes are completely wasted in our FPT system anyway; most MPs follow Sir Joseph Porter's approach and alwys vote as their party tells them too; in all likelihood we will end up largely following EU rules we'll have had no chance to influence.
You either believe in democracy or you don’t. You don’t.
Disagreeing with you does not equate with not believing in democracy.
Are you voting for Junker next time ?
Which candidate for Governor of the Bank of England did you vote for?
The problem with the accession in reverse timetable is the lack of desirable alternatives. We like our car and airplane factories with their supply chains. We like our financial services providing tax for healthcare. We don't really want to go back to customs controls on the Irish border. We won't get third country trade arrangements as good as the ones we have already. There will be the temptation to hold back until the alternatives.are better.
For about the billionth time, it isn't all about Lattes.
Many, many millions of people will be happy to end free movement, gain control of our immigration policy, regain our seat at the WTO and be able to vary our VAT levels. More still will be glad to regain the democratic rights over domestic policy that British politicians foolishly
These are concrete gains that will come from Brexit.
None of them will improve anyone's life one iota - especially when set against the disruption and adverse economic impact which leaving is going to cause. We are opting out of a huge single market just as a trade war is kicking off. Perfect!
Condescension alert.
The freedom es of the people of this country.
Economic outcomes will be FAR more influenced by domestic policy (and the economic behaviour of our people) than by our leaving the EU.
"The freedom to legislate freely on domestic policy, control our immigration policy, vary our sales tax and construct a tariff schedule designed solely for this people of this country, rather than a compromise for a large bloc, will certainly improve lives of the people of this country."
How exactly?
Go you are so right - self determination is so overrated - cancel elections and make Corbyn the President.
The average person in the street will have not one jot more ability to alter the way they are governed after Brexit. The vast majority of votes are completely wasted in our FPT system anyway; most MPs follow Sir Joseph Porter's approach and alwys vote as their party tells them too; in all likelihood we will end up largely following EU rules we'll have had no chance to influence.
You either believe in democracy or you don’t. You don’t.
Disagreeing with you does not equate with not believing in democracy.
For about the billionth time, it isn't all about Lattes.
Many, many millions of people will be happy to end free movement, gain control of our immigration policy, regain our seat at the WTO and be able to vary our VAT levels. More still will be glad to regain the democratic rights over domestic policy that British politicians foolishly
These are concrete gains that will come from Brexit.
None of them will improve anyone's life one iota - especially when set against the disruption and adverse economic impact which leaving is going to cause. We are opting out of a huge single market just as a trade war is kicking off. Perfect!
Condescension alert.
The freedom es of the people of this country.
Economic outcomes will be FAR more influenced by domestic policy (and the economic behaviour of our people) than by our leaving the EU.
"The freedom to legislate freely on domestic policy, control our immigration policy, vary our sales tax and construct a tariff schedule designed solely for this people of this country, rather than a compromise for a large bloc, will certainly improve lives of the people of this country."
How exactly?
Go you are so right - self determination is so overrated - cancel elections and make Corbyn the President.
The average person in the street will have not one jot more ability to alter the way they are governed after Brexit. The vast majority of votes are completely wasted in our FPT system anyway; most MPs follow Sir Joseph Porter's approach and alwys vote as their party tells them too; in all likelihood we will end up largely following EU rules we'll have had no chance to influence.
You either believe in democracy or you don’t. You don’t.
Disagreeing with you does not equate with not believing in democracy.
Are you voting for Junker next time ?
Which candidate for Governor of the Bank of England did you vote for?
The problem with the accession in reverse timetable is the lack of desirable alternatives. We like our car and airplane factories with their supply chains. We like our financial services providing tax for healthcare. We don't really want to go back to customs controls on the Irish border. We won't get third country trade arrangements as good as the ones we have already. There will be the temptation to hold back until the alternatives.are better.
For about the billionth time, it isn't all about Lattes.
Many, many millions of people will be happy to end free movement, gain control of our immigration policy, regain our seat at the WTO and be able to vary our VAT levels. More still will be glad to regain the democratic rights over domestic policy that British politicians foolishly
These are concrete gains that will come from Brexit.
None of them will improve anyone's life one iota - especially when set against the disruption and adverse economic impact which leaving is going to cause. We are opting out of a huge single market just as a trade war is kicking off. Perfect!
Condescension alert.
The freedom es of the people of this country.
Economic outcomes will be FAR more influenced by domestic policy (and the economic behaviour of our people) than by our leaving the EU.
"The freedom to legislate freely on domestic policy, control our immigration policy, vary our sales tax and construct a tariff schedule designed solely for this people of this country, rather than a compromise for a large bloc, will certainly improve lives of the people of this country."
How exactly?
Go you are so right - self determination is so overrated - cancel elections and make Corbyn the President.
The averagealwys vote as their party tells them too; in all likelihood we will end up largely following EU rules we'll have had no chance to influence.
You either believe in democracy or you don’t. You don’t.
Disagreeing with you does not equate with not believing in democracy.
Are you voting for Junker next time ?
Nope - but then I never got a vote on whether Boris Johnson should be foreign secretary, either. I get that I have a direct say over one thing only: who should be my MP.
For about the billionth time, it isn't all about Lattes.
Many, many millions of people will be happy to end free movement, gain control of our immigration policy, regain our seat at the WTO and be able to vary our VAT levels. More still will be glad to regain the democratic rights over domestic policy that British politicians foolishly
These are concrete gains that will come from Brexit.
None of them will improve anyone's life one iota - especially when set against the disruption and adverse economic impact which leaving is going to cause. We are opting out of a huge single market just as a trade war is kicking off. Perfect!
Condescension alert.
The freedom es of the people of this country.
Economic outcomes will be FAR more influenced by domestic policy (and the economic behaviour of our people) than by our leaving the EU.
"The freedom to legislate freely on domestic policy, control our immigration policy, vary our sales tax and construct a tariff schedule designed solely for this people of this country, rather than a compromise for a large bloc, will certainly improve lives of the people of this country."
How exactly?
Go you are so right - self determination is so overrated - cancel elections and make Corbyn the President.
The average person in the street will have not one jot more ability to alter the way they are governed after Brexit. The vast majority of votes are completely wasted in our FPT system anyway; most MPs follow Sir Joseph Porter's approach and alwys vote as their party tells them too; in all likelihood we will end up largely following EU rules we'll have had no chance to influence.
You either believe in democracy or you don’t. You don’t.
Disagreeing with you does not equate with not believing in democracy.
Are you voting for Junker next time ?
Which candidate for Governor of the Bank of England did you vote for?
Dreadful comparison. The Governor of the Bank of England can be fired by the Govt; Juncker cannot.
The problem with the accession in reverse timetable is the lack of desirable alternatives. We like our car and airplane factories with their supply chains. We like our financial services providing tax for healthcare. We don't really want to go back to customs controls on the Irish border. We won't get third country trade arrangements as good as the ones we have already. There will be the temptation to hold back until the alternatives.are better.
For about the billionth time, it isn't all about Lattes.
Many, many millions of people will be happy to end free movement, gain control of our immigration policy, regain our seat at the WTO and be able to vary our VAT levels. More still will be glad to regain the democratic rights over domestic policy that British politicians foolishly
These are concrete gains that will come from Brexit.
None of them will improve anyone's life one iota - especially when set against the disruption and adverse economic impact which leaving is going to cause. We are opting out of a huge single market just as a trade war is kicking off. Perfect!
Condescension alert.
The freedom es of the people of this country.
Economic outcomes will be FAR more influenced by domestic policy (and the economic behaviour of our people) than by our leaving the EU.
"The freedom to legislate freely on domestic policy, control our immigration policy, vary our sales tax and construct a tariff schedule designed solely How exactly?
Go you are so right - self determination is so overrated - cancel elections and make Corbyn the President.
The averagealwys vote as their party tells them too; in all likelihood we will end up largely following EU rules we'll have had no chance to influence.
You either believe in democracy or you don’t. You don’t.
Disagreeing with you does not equate with not believing in democracy.
Are you voting for Junker next time ?
Nope - but then I never got a vote on whether Boris Johnson should be foreign secretary, either. I get that I have a direct say over one thing only: who should be my MP.
Yes you did - you elected an MP - if more had joined you in voting for Corbyn then Boris wouldn’t be FS.
The problem with the accession in reverse timetable is the lack of desirable alternatives. We like our car and airplane factories with their supply chains. We like our financial services providing tax for healthcare. We don't really want to go back to customs controls on the Irish border. We won't get third country trade arrangements as good as the ones we have already. There will be the temptation to hold back until the alternatives.are better.
For about the billionth time, it isn't all about Lattes.
Many, many millions of people will be happy to end free movement, gain control of our immigration policy, regain our seat at the WTO and be able to vary our VAT levels. More still will be glad to regain the democratic rights over domestic policy that British politicians foolishly
These are concrete gains that will come from Brexit.
None of them will improve anyone's life one iota - especially when set against the disruption and adverse economic impact which leaving is going to cause. We are opting out of a huge single market just as a trade war is kicking off. Perfect!
Condescension alert.
The freedom es of the people of this country.
Economic outcomes will be FAR more influenced by domestic policy (and the economic behaviour of our people) than by our leaving the EU.
"The freedom to legislate freely on domestic policy, control our immigration policy, vary our sales tax and construct a tariff schedule designed solely for this people of this country, rather than a compromise for a large bloc, will certainly improve lives of the people of this country."
How exactly?
Go you are so right - self determination is so overrated - cancel elections and make Corbyn the President.
The average person in the te as their party tells them too; in all likelihood we will end up largely following EU rules we'll have had no chance to influence.
You either believe in democracy or you don’t. You don’t.
Disagreeing with you does not equate with not believing in democracy.
The problem with the accession in reverse timetable is the lack of desirable alternatives. We like our car and airplane factories with their supply chains. We like our financial services providing tax for healthcare. We don't really want to go back to customs controls on the Irish border. We won't get third country trade arrangements as good as the ones we have already. There will be the temptation to hold back until the alternatives.are better.
For about the billionth time, it isn't all about Lattes.
Many, many millions of people will be happy to end free movement, gain control of our immigration policy, regain our seat at the WTO and be able to vary our VAT levels. More still will be glad to regain the democratic rights over domestic policy that British politicians foolishly
These are concrete gains that will come from Brexit.
None of them will improve anyone's life one iota - especially when set against the disruption and adverse economic impact which leaving is going to cause. We are opting out of a huge single market just as a trade war is kicking off. Perfect!
Condescension alert.
The freedom es of the people of this country.
Economic outcomes will be FAR more influenced by domestic policy (and the economic behaviour of our people) than by our leaving the EU.
"The freedom to legislate freely on domestic policy, control our immigration policy, vary our sales tax and construct a tariff schedule designed solely for this people of this country, rather than a compromise for a large bloc, will certainly improve lives of the people of this country."
How exactly?
Go you are so right - self determination is so overrated - cancel elections and make Corbyn the President.
The average person in the te as their party tells them too; in all likelihood we will end up largely following EU rules we'll have had no chance to influence.
You either believe in democracy or you don’t. You don’t.
Disagreeing with you does not equate with not believing in democracy.
I never really understood the wailing about appearing on RT, beyond propaganda purposes to condemn individuals for appearing on there is there actually a practical complaint?
Actively taking money from a horrific regime to participate in their propaganda war against the West?
I remember at one point watching Alan Johnson (recently retired Labour MP, not a Corbyn fan) on Sam Delaney's news thing being interviewed. It seemed to be mainly about the recent election and internal battles regarding the Labour party.
If he was promoting anti Western propaganda in that interview then I am actually incredibly impressed, you certainly wouldn't have noticed it in the interview.
I don't want to talk the guy down but given he lead the official part of the Labour remain campaign I am doubting he is such a skilled propagandist....
Edit: Also to clarify you believe that the Tory MPs going on RT are going on there to participate in Russia's propaganda war on the West?
That is their goal?
I can somewhat understand that some people like to think the opposition are actively traitors but that seems a bit too far....
People going on Russia Today and Press TV are either deliberately sympathetic to the regime in question or useful idiots to their cause. Both of which should be disqualifying from being British Prime Minister.
I never really understood the wailing about appearing on RT, beyond propaganda purposes to condemn individuals for appearing on there is there actually a practical complaint?
Actively taking money from a horrific regime to participate in their propaganda war against the West?
I remember at one point watching Alan Johnson (recently retired Labour MP, not a Corbyn fan) on Sam Delaney's news thing being interviewed. It seemed to be mainly about the recent election and internal battles regarding the Labour party.
If he was promoting anti Western propaganda in that interview then I am actually incredibly impressed, you certainly wouldn't have noticed it in the interview.
I don't want to talk the guy down but given he lead the official part of the Labour remain campaign I am doubting he is such a skilled propagandist....
Edit: Also to clarify you believe that the Tory MPs going on RT are going on there to participate in Russia's propaganda war on the West?
That is their goal?
I can somewhat understand that some people like to think the opposition are actively traitors but that seems a bit too far....
People going on Russia Today and Press TV are either deliberately sympathetic to the regime in question or useful idiots to their cause. Both of which should be disqualifying from being British Prime Minister.
Well clearly Johnson is a master propagandist and one can only assume a huge Brexiteer given his remain campaign as I can't imagine any normal person, or even those with some kind of expertise in this area, would even begin to be able to detect the pro Russian propaganda they were being supplied with when he was interviewed.
For about the billionth time, it isn't all about Lattes.
Many, many millions of people will be happy to end free movement, gain control of our immigration policy, regain our seat at the WTO and be able to vary our VAT levels. More still will be glad to regain the democratic rights over domestic policy that British politicians foolishly
These are concrete gains that will come from Brexit.
None of them will improve anyone's life one iota - especially when set against the disruption and adverse economic impact which leaving is going to cause. We are opting out of a huge single market just as a trade war is kicking off. Perfect!
Condescension alert.
The freedom es of the people of this country.
Economic outcomes will be FAR more influenced by domestic policy (and the economic behaviour of our people) than by our leaving the EU.
"The freedom to legislate freely on domestic policy, control our immigration policy, vary our sales tax and construct a tariff schedule designed solely for this people of this country, rather than a compromise for a large bloc, will certainly improve lives of the people of this country."
How exactly?
Go you are so right - self determination is so overrated - cancel elections and make Corbyn the President.
The average person in the street will have not one jot more ability to alter the way they are governed after Brexit. The vast majority of votes are completely wasted in our FPT system anyway; most MPs follow Sir Joseph Porter's approach and alwys vote as their party tells them too; in all likelihood we will end up largely following EU rules we'll have had no chance to influence.
You either believe in democracy or you don’t. You don’t.
Disagreeing with you does not equate with not believing in democracy.
Are you voting for Junker next time ?
Which candidate for Governor of the Bank of England did you vote for?
Dreadful comparison. The Governor of the Bank of England can be fired by the Govt; Juncker cannot.
The problem with the accession in reverse timetable is the lack of desirable alternatives. We like our car and airplane factories with their supply chains. We like our financial services providing tax for healthcare. We don't really want to go back to customs controls on the Irish border. We won't get third country trade arrangements as good as the ones we have already. There will be the temptation to hold back until the alternatives.are better.
For about the billionth time, it isn't all about Lattes.
Many, many millions of people will be happy to end free movement, gain control of our immigration policy, regain our seat at the WTO and be able to vary our VAT levels. More still will be glad to regain the democratic rights over domestic policy that British politicians foolishly
These are concrete gains that will come from Brexit.
None of them will improve anyone's life one iota - especially when set against the disruption and adverse economic impact which leaving is going to cause. We are opting out of a huge single market just as a trade war is kicking off. Perfect!
Condescension alert.
The freedom es of the people of this country.
Economic outcomes will be FAR more influenced by domestic policy (and the economic behaviour of our people) than by our leaving the EU.
"The freedom to legislate freely on domestic policy, control our immigration policy, vary our sales tax and construct a tariff schedule designed solely How exactly?
Go you are so right - self determination is so overrated - cancel elections and make Corbyn the President.
The averagealwys vote as influence.
You either believe in democracy or you don’t. You don’t.
Disagreeing with you does not equate with not believing in democracy.
Are you voting for Junker next time ?
Nope - but then I never got a vote on whether Boris Johnson should be foreign secretary, either. I get that I have a direct say over one thing only: who should be my MP.
Yes you did - you elected an MP - if more had joined you in voting for Corbyn then Boris wouldn’t be FS.
I didn’t vote for Corbyn. Boris Johnson for foreign secretary was not on my ballot paper.
For about the billionth time, it isn't all about Lattes.
Many, many millions of people will be happy to end free movement, gain control of our immigration policy, regain our seat at the WTO and be able to vary our VAT levels. More still will be glad to regain the democratic rights over domestic policy that British politicians foolishly
These are concrete gains that will come from Brexit.
None of them will improve anyone's life one iota - especially when set against the disruption and adverse economic impact which leaving is going to cause. We are opting out of a huge single market just as a trade war is kicking off. Perfect!
Condescension alert.
The freedom es of the people of this country.
Economic outcomes will be FAR more influenced by domestic policy (and the economic behaviour of our people) than by our leaving the EU.
"The freedom to legislate freely on domestic policy, control our immigration policy, vary our sales tax and construct a tariff schedule designed solely for this people of this country, rather than a compromise for a large bloc, will certainly improve lives of the people of this country."
How exactly?
Go you are so right - self determination is so overrated - cancel elections and make Corbyn the President.
The average person in the street will have not one jot more ability to alter the way they are governed after Brexit. The vast majority of votes are completely wasted in our FPT system anyway; most MPs follow Sir Joseph Porter's approach and alwys vote as their party tells them too; in all likelihood we will end up largely following EU rules we'll have had no chance to influence.
You either believe in democracy or you don’t. You don’t.
Disagreeing with you does not equate with not believing in democracy.
Are you voting for Junker next time ?
Which candidate for Governor of the Bank of England did you vote for?
Dreadful comparison. The Governor of the Bank of England can be fired by the Govt; Juncker cannot.
It’s a pathetic argument - even for PB.
The pathetic argument is that any of us will be in any way more empowered after Brexit.
For about the billionth time, it isn't all about Lattes.
Many, many millions of people will be happy to end free movement, gain control of our immigration policy, regain our seat at the WTO and be able to vary our VAT levels. More still will be glad to regain the democratic rights over domestic policy that British politicians foolishly
These are concrete gains that will come from Brexit.
None of them will improve anyone's life one iota - especially when set against the disruption and adverse economic impact which leaving is going to cause. We are opting out of a huge single market just as a trade war is kicking off. Perfect!
Condescension alert.
The freedom es of the people of this country.
Economic outcomes will be FAR more influenced by domestic policy (and the economic behaviour of our people) than by our leaving the EU.
"The freedom to legislate freely on domestic policy, control our immigration policy, vary our sales tax and construct a tariff schedule designed solely for this people of this country, rather than a compromise for a large bloc, will certainly improve lives of the people of this country."
How exactly?
Go you are so right - self determination is so overrated - cancel elections and make Corbyn the President.
The average person in the street will have not one jot more ability to alter the way they are governed after Brexit. The vast majority of votes are completely wasted in our FPT system anyway; most MPs follow Sir Joseph Porter's approach and alwys vote as their party tells them too; in all likelihood we will end up largely following EU rules we'll have had no chance to influence.
You either believe in democracy or you don’t. You don’t.
Disagreeing with you does not equate with not believing in democracy.
Are you voting for Junker next time ?
Which candidate for Governor of the Bank of England did you vote for?
Dreadful comparison. The Governor of the Bank of England can be fired by the Govt; Juncker cannot.
Can the government?
While pressure could be brought to bear, I think only the Court of Governors Directors of the Bank of England could fire the Governor of the Bank of England.
The ability to do FTAs seems to be becoming less of a selling point for Brexit by the day. Given that, why rush out of the Customs Union?
Donald Trump's trade war is throwing a spanner into the works on that front for Brexiteers.
Brexit is a religion - facts are both unnecessary and unwelcome
The EU is the religion. Brexit is the atheists finally striking back and showing what a load of superstitious bollocks it really is.
You could make the point without the swearing.
Good night everyone.
I could but I choose not to. I subscribe to the Stephen Fry school of thought about swearing.
“The sort of twee person who thinks swearing is in any way a sign of a lack of education or a lack of verbal interest is just a fucking lunatic.”
That's interesting - I hadn't heard that quote.
I think of bad language as a sort of mental pollution, like surfers think of sewage in the sea.
It can puntuate a moment very effectively, when not overused, which it frequently is. And since what society considers bad language shifts it will never be eradicated of course.
These are concrete gains that will come from Brexit.
None of them will improve anyone's life one iota - especially when set against the disruption and adverse economic impact which leaving is going to cause. We are opting out of a huge single market just as a trade war is kicking off. Perfect!
Condescension alert.
The freedom es of the people of this country.
Economic outcomes will be FAR more influenced by domestic policy (and the economic behaviour of our people) than by our leaving the EU.
"The freedom to legislate freely on domestic policy, control our immigration policy, vary our sales tax and construct a tariff schedule designed solely for this people of this country, rather than a compromise for a large bloc, will certainly improve lives of the people of this country."
How exactly?
Go you are so right - self determination is so overrated - cancel elections and make Corbyn the President.
The average person in the street will have not one jot more ability to alter the way they are governed after Brexit. The vast majority of votes are completely wasted in our FPT system anyway; most MPs follow Sir Joseph Porter's approach and alwys vote as their party tells them too; in all likelihood we will end up largely following EU rules we'll have had no chance to influence.
You either believe in democracy or you don’t. You don’t.
Disagreeing with you does not equate with not believing in democracy.
Are you voting for Junker next time ?
Which candidate for Governor of the Bank of England did you vote for?
Dreadful comparison. The Governor of the Bank of England can be fired by the Govt; Juncker cannot.
Can the government?
While pressure could be brought to bear, I think only the Court of Governors of the Bank of England could fire the Governor of the Bank of England.
Whereas the (elected) European Parliament could fire Juncker if it chose.
For about the billionth time, it isn't all about Lattes.
Many, many millions of people will be happy to end free movement, gain control of our immigration policy, regain our seat at the WTO and be able to vary our VAT levels. More still will be glad to regain the democratic rights over domestic policy that British politicians foolishly
These are concrete gains that will come from Brexit.
None of them will improve anyone's life one iota - especially when set against the disruption and adverse economic impact which leaving is going to cause. We are opting out of a huge single market just as a trade war is kicking off. Perfect!
Condescension alert.
The freedom es of the people of this country.
Economic outcomes will be FAR more influenced by domestic policy (and the economic behaviour of our people) than by our leaving the EU.
"The freedom to legislate freely on domestic policy, control our immigration policy, vary our sales tax and construct a tariff schedule designed solely for this people of this country, rather than a compromise for a large bloc, will certainly improve lives of the people of this country."
How exactly?
Go you are so right - self determination is so overrated - cancel elections and make Corbyn the President.
The average person in the street will have not one jot more ability to alter the way they are governed after Brexit.e.
You either believe in democracy or you don’t. You don’t.
Disagreeing with you does not equate with not believing in democracy.
Are you voting for Junker next time ?
Which candidate for Governor of the Bank of England did you vote for?
Dreadful comparison. The Governor of the Bank of England can be fired by the Govt; Juncker cannot.
Can the government?
While pressure could be brought to bear, I think only the Court of Governors of the Bank of England could fire the Governor of the Bank of England.
Parliament can always legislate to change the rules. Probably not a very sensible idea, though.
The ability to do FTAs seems to be becoming less of a selling point for Brexit by the day. Given that, why rush out of the Customs Union?
Donald Trump's trade war is throwing a spanner into the works on that front for Brexiteers.
Brexit is a religion - facts are both unnecessary and unwelcome
The EU is the religion. Brexit is the atheists finally striking back and showing what a load of superstitious bollocks it really is.
You could make the point without the swearing.
Good night everyone.
I could but I choose not to. I subscribe to the Stephen Fry school of thought about swearing.
“The sort of twee person who thinks swearing is in any way a sign of a lack of education or a lack of verbal interest is just a fucking lunatic.”
That's interesting - I hadn't heard that quote.
I think of bad language as a sort of mental pollution, like surfers think of sewage in the sea.
It can puntuate a moment very effectively, when not overused, which it frequently is. And since what society considers bad language shifts it will never be eradicated of course.
I gather that the first things most people pick up in a foreign language are the swear words! Sewers are a significant part of public health; the discharge of negative feelings is similar.
The problem with the accession in reverse timetable is the lack of desirable alternatives. We like our car and airplane factories with their supply chains. We like our financial services providing tax for healthcare. We don't really want to go back to customs controls on the Irish border. We won't get third country trade arrangements as good as the ones we have already. There will be the temptation to hold back until the alternatives.are better.
For about the billionth time, it isn't all about Lattes.
Many, many millions of people will be happy to end free movement, gain control of our immigration policy, regain our seat at the WTO and be able to vary our VAT levels. More still will be glad to regain the democratic rights over domestic policy that British politicians foolishly
These are concrete gains that will come from Brexit.
None of them will improve anyone's life one iota - especially when set against the disruption and adverse economic impact which leaving is going to cause. We are opting out of a huge single market just as a trade war is kicking off. Perfect!
Condescension alert.
The freedom es of the people of this country.
Economic outcomes will be FAR more influenced by domestic policy (and the economic behaviour of our people) than by our leaving the EU.
"The freedom to legislate freely on domestic policy, control our immigration policy, vary our sales tax and construct a tariff schedule designed solely for this people of this country, rather than a compromise for a large bloc, will certainly improve lives of the people of this country."
How exactly?
Go you are so right - self determination is so overrated - cancel elections and make Corbyn the President.
The average person in the te as their party tells them too; in all likelihood we will end up largely following EU rules we'll have had no chance to influence.
You either believe in democracy or you don’t. You don’t.
Disagreeing with you does not equate with not believing in democracy.
Was he one of the twats that raided the cafe the other week?
Journalist at The Independent.
What mr Churchill was a racist war criminal guy? Really?
Yup
And Hitler wasn't???
Blockquote problem. Some idiot from the Independent went all ranty about Churchill / tributes to him at the Oscars and I was asking was did tw@tterer really work for the Indy.
The betting market may be right but the idea of Mogg as Conservative leader is just wrong. The Conservatives may need a firm leader but the guy is an idealogue and I'm not sure voters sympathetic to the centre right will buy into that.
Brexit: Everyone is aware that the Irish government have a report from one of their own agencies saying that technology can be used to reduce a considerable burden of moving goods across the border, right? Everyone is also aware they are sitting on it because its not in line with the EU drive to try to force the UK into, at the very least, a customs union, right?
Trumpton: Lot of GOP Congressional reps announcing they are standing down voluntarily over the last few months. Its those, not merely the seats that have come to their term in November that make upcoming elections interesting.
Brexit: Everyone is aware that the Irish government have a report from one of their own agencies saying that technology can be used to reduce a considerable burden of moving goods across the border, right? Everyone is also aware they are sitting on it because its not in line with the EU drive to try to force the UK into, at the very least, a customs union, right?
There's a public domain report along those lines commissioned by the European Parliament last year, but it's academic as the UK has committed to zero infrastructure or checks so all the technology in the world can't help.
The betting market may be right but the idea of Mogg as Conservative leader is just wrong. The Conservatives may need a firm leader but the guy is an idealogue and I'm not sure voters sympathetic to the centre right will buy into that.
Brexit: Everyone is aware that the Irish government have a report from one of their own agencies saying that technology can be used to reduce a considerable burden of moving goods across the border, right? Everyone is also aware they are sitting on it because its not in line with the EU drive to try to force the UK into, at the very least, a customs union, right?
Trumpton: Lot of GOP Congressional reps announcing they are standing down voluntarily over the last few months. Its those, not merely the seats that have come to their term in November that make upcoming elections interesting.
You are right about JRM, he is not electorally appealing - after May's wooden performance I think the party will be looking for someone who is comfortable on camera (like DC) but without the baggage of an ideologue.
Technology may reduce the burden - but it still implies a border, whether right or wrong a lot of Irish (either side) will bitterly oppose a border of any sort and the idea that you will be monitored/filmed/data collected by security agencies will be unacceptable and unenforceable as certain groups will undermine/damage the system.
The PSNI/border agency will find manning/protecting a border inspection post almost impossible for large stretches of the territory- around 200 miles. And allegedly it will be needed in exactly 12 months, the numbers of officers required will be huge and I dont think the British Army will be welcomed back to man the checkpoints
Not all of Steele's report was wholly accurate. Some of the more salacious detail is a bit off and story telling on the part of his sources.
In the intelligence business, you don’t pretend you’re a hundred per cent accurate. If you’re seventy or eighty per cent accurate, that makes you one of the best.”
Brexit: Everyone is aware that the Irish government have a report from one of their own agencies saying that technology can be used to reduce a considerable burden of moving goods across the border, right? Everyone is also aware they are sitting on it because its not in line with the EU drive to try to force the UK into, at the very least, a customs union, right?
Brexit: Everyone is aware that the Irish government have a report from one of their own agencies saying that technology can be used to reduce a considerable burden of moving goods across the border, right? Everyone is also aware they are sitting on it because its not in line with the EU drive to try to force the UK into, at the very least, a customs union, right?
Brexit: Everyone is aware that the Irish government have a report from one of their own agencies saying that technology can be used to reduce a considerable burden of moving goods across the border, right? Everyone is also aware they are sitting on it because its not in line with the EU drive to try to force the UK into, at the very least, a customs union, right?
The betting market may be right but the idea of Mogg as Conservative leader is just wrong. The Conservatives may need a firm leader but the guy is an idealogue and I'm not sure voters sympathetic to the centre right will buy into that.
Brexit: Everyone is aware that the Irish government have a report from one of their own agencies saying that technology can be used to reduce a considerable burden of moving goods across the border, right? Everyone is also aware they are sitting on it because its not in line with the EU drive to try to force the UK into, at the very least, a customs union, right? .
You are right about JRM, he is not electorally appealing - after May's wooden performance I think the party will be looking for someone who is comfortable on camera (like DC) but without the baggage of an ideologue.
Technology may reduce the burden - but it still implies a border, whether right or wrong a lot of Irish (either side) will bitterly oppose a border of any sort and the idea that you will be monitored/filmed/data collected by security agencies will be unacceptable and unenforceable as certain groups will undermine/damage the system.
The PSNI/border agency will find manning/protecting a border inspection post almost impossible for large stretches of the territory- around 200 miles. And allegedly it will be needed in exactly 12 months, the numbers of officers required will be huge and I dont think the British Army will be welcomed back to man the checkpoints
Contrary to what apocalyptic claims would have you believe, free movement of people North and South isn't going to change to an impactful level for your average bod, its goods. The Irish government know rightly that the damage will be to them, €18 billion worth of a hit apparently. The traffic between North and South is largely one way and they know it. Ironically if they kept the argument economic they might come across better but they've hitched (unsurprisingly) to the EU line. The reality is that the UK is leaving the EU. One reason people voted for Brexit is because they wanted control of their own borders, anyone who just watched the Italian election results cant help but notice thats part of the steam behind the rise of the right. There is a border, there will be a border, its part of the nation state (which appears to be on the rise in Europe as a concept again) its just a question of how much its noticed by the average transiting citizen.
The problem is the zealots are running both sides of this debate. Until they get over it, there will be no proper deal. There will not be open warfare in Northern Ireland if this goes pear and new measures are put in place. In fact the checks wont be done at the border in a lot of cases, too impractical. It will happen further along the routes.
Brexit: Everyone is aware that the Irish government have a report from one of their own agencies saying that technology can be used to reduce a considerable burden of moving goods across the border, right? Everyone is also aware they are sitting on it because its not in line with the EU drive to try to force the UK into, at the very least, a customs union, right?
Assuming the Mississippi GOP candidate is no Roy Moore it should be an easy GOP hold?
We perhaps forget that despite 9 women making sexual assault allegations against him when they were as young as 14 he still only lost by 50 to 48.3 per cent. It wasn't Moore's political views that were the problem.
So I don't as you say see the Republicans losing MS or the senate this year given only 9 of the 33 seats up for election are held by them and they are in generally solidly red states.
@Nigelb since you have an interest in the subject and have no doubt read the New Yorker article you might find some useful & linked reading in this 2016 report.
Interestingly while some responses skew as you might expect on "Brexit top priority" - Free trade deal with Europe : 18-24:46%, 65+: 20%, the "Irish border" question is met with pretty uniform apathy: "Open border NI-RI: 18-24: 10%, 65+: 5%.
So having failed with Project Fear "Economics" looks like Project Fear "NI border" is set for similar success.....
Even those wanting a second referendum and who would vote to stay in are pretty unmoved (11% each).
@Nigelb since you have an interest in the subject and have no doubt read the New Yorker article you might find some useful & linked reading in this 2016 report.
@Nigelb since you have an interest in the subject and have no doubt read the New Yorker article you might find some useful & linked reading in this 2016 report.
Comments
If he was promoting anti Western propaganda in that interview then I am actually incredibly impressed, you certainly wouldn't have noticed it in the interview.
I don't want to talk the guy down but given he lead the official part of the Labour remain campaign I am doubting he is such a skilled propagandist....
Edit: Also to clarify you believe that the Tory MPs going on RT are going on there to participate in Russia's propaganda war on the West?
That is their goal?
I can somewhat understand that some people like to think the opposition are actively traitors but that seems a bit too far....
I wonder if this might fall foul of the 1st Amendement ?
(Probably not with the current court.)
Crap, I owe a lot of people an apology in that case.
I think of bad language as a sort of mental pollution, like surfers think of sewage in the sea.
https://order-order.com/2018/01/29/corbyn-also-lied-about-raising-iranian-human-rights-abuses-on-press-tv/
https://order-order.com/2016/12/09/corbyn-attends-khomeinist-event-with-press-tv-extremists-and-israel-haters/
https://order-order.com/2017/11/12/corbyns-record-iran/
https://order-order.com/2016/04/29/corbyn-agrees-bbc-are-zionist-liars/
https://order-order.com/2015/08/05/corbyns-gay-rights-vow-iran-style/
Also check out Harry's place - a more left leaning site
While pressure could be brought to bear, I think only the Court of Governors Directors of the Bank of England could fire the Governor of the Bank of England.
Probably not a very sensible idea, though.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/03/12/christopher-steele-the-man-behind-the-trump-dossier
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Flavius
Brexit: Everyone is aware that the Irish government have a report from one of their own agencies saying that technology can be used to reduce a considerable burden of moving goods across the border, right? Everyone is also aware they are sitting on it because its not in line with the EU drive to try to force the UK into, at the very least, a customs union, right?
Trumpton: Lot of GOP Congressional reps announcing they are standing down voluntarily over the last few months. Its those, not merely the seats that have come to their term in November that make upcoming elections interesting.
Smart Border 2.0 Report
Technology may reduce the burden - but it still implies a border, whether right or wrong a lot of Irish (either side) will bitterly oppose a border of any sort and the idea that you will be monitored/filmed/data collected by security agencies will be unacceptable and unenforceable as certain groups will undermine/damage the system.
The PSNI/border agency will find manning/protecting a border inspection post almost impossible for large stretches of the territory- around 200 miles. And allegedly it will be needed in exactly 12 months, the numbers of officers required will be huge and I dont think the British Army will be welcomed back to man the checkpoints
https://www.irishnews.com/news/brexit/2017/11/27/news/use-technology-to-manage-multinational-trade-with-soft-irish-border-bertie-ahern-suggests-1197560/
Pity Varadkar stopped the work Ahern started.....
Is that something he puts on his head?
The problem is the zealots are running both sides of this debate. Until they get over it, there will be no proper deal. There will not be open warfare in Northern Ireland if this goes pear and new measures are put in place. In fact the checks wont be done at the border in a lot of cases, too impractical. It will happen further along the routes.
"But of course, when you come down to agriculture and smaller items, I don't think technology would work.
"One thing we do not want, can't have, is back to a physical border."
So I don't as you say see the Republicans losing MS or the senate this year given only 9 of the 33 seats up for election are held by them and they are in generally solidly red states.
https://twitter.com/RT_com/status/970835103248273408
http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/publications/reports/kremlin-trojan-horses
There is a follow up report on the countries of the Med.
A few weeks back I posted that there was a White House debate about another round of strikes in Syria over the Assad regime's use of chemical weapons.
That debate is still going on.
So having failed with Project Fear "Economics" looks like Project Fear "NI border" is set for similar success.....
Even those wanting a second referendum and who would vote to stay in are pretty unmoved (11% each).
http://www.comresglobal.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Sunday-Mirror_Feb-2018_Brexit-poll-006.pdf
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2018/03/05/dont-rehabilitate-obama-on-russia/
Suspect there is much in there you'd agree with!
http://theweek.com/speedreads/759197/phone-call-trump-said-north-korean-regime-actually-south-koreas-president