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  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,620
    Scott_P said:

    BoZo threatening England might pull out of the World Cup.

    Saves the embarrassment perhaps...

    Better not! I have tickets.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896
    Anorak said:

    Scott_P said:

    BoZo threatening England might pull out of the World Cup.

    Saves the embarrassment perhaps...

    Perhaps we can see a few hundred paras dressed as normal supporters who 'accidentally' end up in the wrong bar.

    Would be pleasing to see the Russian ultra-nationalists given both a literal and metaphorical bloody nose.
    That would be rather amusing, but to say it would generate something of a diplomatic incident would be an understatement!

    A boycot could well happen, especially if there’s violence around the Russian election or intelligence that suggests the teams or fans won’t be safe.
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    Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,816
    DavidL said:

    Talking of PPE my son is about to enter a school economics essay competition. The question is what taxes are good taxes?

    Initial thoughts duties and other taxes designed to discourage self-destructive behaviours. Taxes which discourage excessive speculation perhaps. More arguably taxes designed to improve the Gini coefficient if you believe that increases societal stability. Possibly taxes which allow society to share in development gains that it has created or facilitated. Generally Colbert's goose may get a mention.

    Any more out there suggestions?

    Economically, taxes which don't create large tax wedges and discourage economic activity. All taxes incentivise reduction of the supply of what they're taxing - which is why taxes on land tend to be the less distorting (they've already stopped making it). The OECD did an empirical investigation on which taxes most and least affect economic activity here: http://www.oecd.org/officialdocuments/publicdisplaydocumentpdf/?cote=eco/wkp(2008)51&doclanguage=en

    Short summary: profit taxes most reduce growth (economically, profit and growth can be near synonyms, so that's not surprising), then income taxes. Consumption taxes (eg VAT) have a significantly less effect and taxes on immovable land have the least negative effect (some designs of Land Value Tax - ie if based on the unimproved value of the land) have the near-unique property of increasing economic activity (if you're being taxed the same amount whether or not you've put something valuable on it, you may as well put something valuable on it and get the benefit).
    A financial transactions tax has the opposite extreme effect of being able to reduce the economic activity by more than the amount it gathers in tax, due to reducing the amount of transactions in the economy.
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704
    Have we just declared War on Russia?
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,060
    A Russian transport plane has crashed in Syria killing 32 people.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,081
    edited March 2018
    Anorak said:

    Scott_P said:

    BoZo threatening England might pull out of the World Cup.

    Saves the embarrassment perhaps...

    Perhaps we can see a few hundred paras dressed as normal supporters who 'accidentally' end up in the wrong bar.

    Would be pleasing to see the Russian ultra-nationalists given both a literal and metaphorical bloody nose.
    Escalation then, with Spetsnaz dressing up in whatever gear Russian soccer casuals go for (tbf there may already be a bit of that going on)

    Of course if their respective performances matched Engerlund v Russki thugs, it'd be a case of they think it's all over, it is now.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586

    Nigelb said:

    This looks encouraging:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/03/06/north-korea-promises-not-use-nuclear-weapons-against-south-border/
    Pyongyang had indicated that it would not need to keep its nuclear weapons if military threats against the country are resolved and it receives a credible security guarantee, said the South Korean envoy.

    Possible peace in Korea ?

    It's hard to see how anyone would be able to give them a credible security guarantee after what the Americans did to Gaddafi.
    Yes, but Libya doesn't share a border with China.
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    hamiltonacehamiltonace Posts: 642
    Just had an email from regulatory consultant explaining that BSI (British Standards) will become Dutch. As such their audits will comply with Dutch law and allow us to issue CE marks as before. The only question we don't know is if the UK Government will now accept that control of the medical devices sold in the UK is under the Dutch.

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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    British Airways continues with the carrier planning to launch no-frills “basic economy” fares on its long-haul flights. The cheaper tickets, which do not include checked luggage or seat selection.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/comment/british-airways-is-going-budget-on-long-haul-flights/

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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,280

    DavidL said:

    Talking of PPE my son is about to enter a school economics essay competition. The question is what taxes are good taxes?

    Initial thoughts duties and other taxes designed to discourage self-destructive behaviours. Taxes which discourage excessive speculation perhaps. More arguably taxes designed to improve the Gini coefficient if you believe that increases societal stability. Possibly taxes which allow society to share in development gains that it has created or facilitated. Generally Colbert's goose may get a mention.

    Any more out there suggestions?

    Economically, taxes which don't create large tax wedges and discourage economic activity. All taxes incentivise reduction of the supply of what they're taxing - which is why taxes on land tend to be the less distorting (they've already stopped making it). The OECD did an empirical investigation on which taxes most and least affect economic activity here: http://www.oecd.org/officialdocuments/publicdisplaydocumentpdf/?cote=eco/wkp(2008)51&doclanguage=en

    Short summary: profit taxes most reduce growth (economically, profit and growth can be near synonyms, so that's not surprising), then income taxes. Consumption taxes (eg VAT) have a significantly less effect and taxes on immovable land have the least negative effect (some designs of Land Value Tax - ie if based on the unimproved value of the land) have the near-unique property of increasing economic activity (if you're being taxed the same amount whether or not you've put something valuable on it, you may as well put something valuable on it and get the benefit).
    A financial transactions tax has the opposite extreme effect of being able to reduce the economic activity by more than the amount it gathers in tax, due to reducing the amount of transactions in the economy.
    Bad link. Can you try again?
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Just had an email from regulatory consultant explaining that BSI (British Standards) will become Dutch. As such their audits will comply with Dutch law and allow us to issue CE marks as before. The only question we don't know is if the UK Government will now accept that control of the medical devices sold in the UK is under the Dutch.

    Take Back Control...
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    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited March 2018
    DavidL said:

    Bad link. Can you try again?

    A finely crafted link
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,663

    Just had an email from regulatory consultant explaining that BSI (British Standards) will become Dutch. As such their audits will comply with Dutch law and allow us to issue CE marks as before. The only question we don't know is if the UK Government will now accept that control of the medical devices sold in the UK is under the Dutch.

    BSI will retain our significant UK-based Notified Body and fully expects that it will be able to continue providing this service as NB 0086 under the UK regime agreed with the EU.

    https://www.bsigroup.com/en-IL/Medical-Devices/News-centre/Enews/2017-Enews/BSI-opening-a-second-EU-Notified-Body-based-in-the-Netherlands/
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited March 2018

    Just had an email from regulatory consultant explaining that BSI (British Standards) will become Dutch. As such their audits will comply with Dutch law and allow us to issue CE marks as before. The only question we don't know is if the UK Government will now accept that control of the medical devices sold in the UK is under the Dutch.

    A quick look on the BSI website suggests that isn't quite the case. A quick read sounds that they have taken the same approach the banks have, setup a HQ in Holland as well as the UK.

    "BSI will retain our significant UK-based Notified Body and fully expects that it will be able to continue providing this service as NB 0086 under the UK regime agreed with the EU."
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    ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516

    Just had an email from regulatory consultant explaining that BSI (British Standards) will become Dutch. As such their audits will comply with Dutch law and allow us to issue CE marks as before. The only question we don't know is if the UK Government will now accept that control of the medical devices sold in the UK is under the Dutch.

    All British standards will become based on a country a third of the size. Sure.
  • Options
    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    Just had an email from regulatory consultant explaining that BSI (British Standards) will become Dutch. As such their audits will comply with Dutch law and allow us to issue CE marks as before. The only question we don't know is if the UK Government will now accept that control of the medical devices sold in the UK is under the Dutch.

    BSI will retain our significant UK-based Notified Body and fully expects that it will be able to continue providing this service as NB 0086 under the UK regime agreed with the EU.

    https://www.bsigroup.com/en-IL/Medical-Devices/News-centre/Enews/2017-Enews/BSI-opening-a-second-EU-Notified-Body-based-in-the-Netherlands/
    "fully expects" = we're not sure but very hopeful

    [I'm sure they will be fine, but there remains some doubt]
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    ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,280
    Anorak said:

    DavidL said:

    Bad link. Can you try again?

    A finely crafted link
    Many thanks
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    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Elliot said:
    Yeah, what the hell does he know about US-UK relations! Another bloody armchair remaniac doing the country down.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,663
    Elliot said:

    Just had an email from regulatory consultant explaining that BSI (British Standards) will become Dutch. As such their audits will comply with Dutch law and allow us to issue CE marks as before. The only question we don't know is if the UK Government will now accept that control of the medical devices sold in the UK is under the Dutch.

    All British standards will become based on a country a third of the size. Sure.
    BSI’s role as an EU Notified Body will not change following the recent UK decision to leave the EU. While the UK Government sets out the arrangements for its withdrawal from the EU, we will be working closely with the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) and Department of Health to ensure continuity of our full scope designation as a Notified Body for Medical Devices.


    https://www.bsigroup.com/en-IL/medical-devices/news-centre/enews/2016-enews/eu-referendum/
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    JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548
    I was at school with his kids, and stayed at his house one weekend.
  • Options
    ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516

    DavidL said:

    Talking of PPE my son is about to enter a school economics essay competition. The question is what taxes are good taxes?

    Initial thoughts duties and other taxes designed to discourage self-destructive behaviours. Taxes which discourage excessive speculation perhaps. More arguably taxes designed to improve the Gini coefficient if you believe that increases societal stability. Possibly taxes which allow society to share in development gains that it has created or facilitated. Generally Colbert's goose may get a mention.

    Any more out there suggestions?

    Economically, taxes which don't create large tax wedges and discourage economic activity. All taxes incentivise reduction of the supply of what they're taxing - which is why taxes on land tend to be the less distorting (they've already stopped making it). The OECD did an empirical investigation on which taxes most and least affect economic activity here: http://www.oecd.org/officialdocuments/publicdisplaydocumentpdf/?cote=eco/wkp(2008)51&doclanguage=en

    Short summary: profit taxes most reduce growth (economically, profit and growth can be near synonyms, so that's not surprising), then income taxes. Consumption taxes (eg VAT) have a significantly less effect and taxes on immovable land have the least negative effect (some designs of Land Value Tax - ie if based on the unimproved value of the land) have the near-unique property of increasing economic activity (if you're being taxed the same amount whether or not you've put something valuable on it, you may as well put something valuable on it and get the benefit).
    A financial transactions tax has the opposite extreme effect of being able to reduce the economic activity by more than the amount it gathers in tax, due to reducing the amount of transactions in the economy.
    The best taxes are those in which the distortion is good. Taxes on pollution, fixed odds betting machines, fixed resource use, addictive drugs etc.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    DavidL said:

    Talking of PPE my son is about to enter a school economics essay competition. The question is what taxes are good taxes?

    Initial thoughts duties and other taxes designed to discourage self-destructive behaviours. Taxes which discourage excessive speculation perhaps. More arguably taxes designed to improve the Gini coefficient if you believe that increases societal stability. Possibly taxes which allow society to share in development gains that it has created or facilitated. Generally Colbert's goose may get a mention.

    Any more out there suggestions?

    I’d start with defining what is a good tax and work from there

    Something that is simple, easy/cheap to collect, hard to avoid, and non economically distorting.

    You can then compare various types of tax (income, capital, wealth, employment, sales etc) against those before zeroing in on more specific taxes

    From memory VAT comes pretty high up the spectrum of “good taxes”

    In my mind if you start talking about Gino coefficiencies you are mixing social policy and revenue - a “good tax” shouldn’t be about whether it achieves a specific political objective (which some might disagree with) but should be something that can objectively measured
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    DavidL said:

    Talking of PPE my son is about to enter a school economics essay competition. The question is what taxes are good taxes?

    Initial thoughts duties and other taxes designed to discourage self-destructive behaviours. Taxes which discourage excessive speculation perhaps. More arguably taxes designed to improve the Gini coefficient if you believe that increases societal stability. Possibly taxes which allow society to share in development gains that it has created or facilitated. Generally Colbert's goose may get a mention.

    Any more out there suggestions?

    Work out the world you want to see, then work out how to get there.

    There's not point trying to lower the GINI co-efficient unless you think the current one is too high.

    If you think smoking is great, why discourage it - or to use a more difficult example, alcohol: is current consumption too high? If yes, why did we scrap the escalator, but if no, why tax it at all?
    I always liked the goose quote: the art of taxation is to extract the most feathers with the least hissing
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,663
    edited March 2018
    Curious. May's Brexit policy less clear than Corbyn's but more realistic, less disapproved and less likely to drive people away from her party. Maybe she's onto something.....
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    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,150
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Talking of PPE my son is about to enter a school economics essay competition. The question is what taxes are good taxes?

    Initial thoughts duties and other taxes designed to discourage self-destructive behaviours. Taxes which discourage excessive speculation perhaps. More arguably taxes designed to improve the Gini coefficient if you believe that increases societal stability. Possibly taxes which allow society to share in development gains that it has created or facilitated. Generally Colbert's goose may get a mention.

    Any more out there suggestions?

    Economically, taxes which don't create large tax wedges and discourage economic activity. All taxes incentivise reduction of the supply of what they're taxing - which is why taxes on land tend to be the less distorting (they've already stopped making it). The OECD did an empirical investigation on which taxes most and least affect economic activity here: http://www.oecd.org/officialdocuments/publicdisplaydocumentpdf/?cote=eco/wkp(2008)51&doclanguage=en

    Short summary: profit taxes most reduce growth (economically, profit and growth can be near synonyms, so that's not surprising), then income taxes. Consumption taxes (eg VAT) have a significantly less effect and taxes on immovable land have the least negative effect (some designs of Land Value Tax - ie if based on the unimproved value of the land) have the near-unique property of increasing economic activity (if you're being taxed the same amount whether or not you've put something valuable on it, you may as well put something valuable on it and get the benefit).
    A financial transactions tax has the opposite extreme effect of being able to reduce the economic activity by more than the amount it gathers in tax, due to reducing the amount of transactions in the economy.
    Bad link. Can you try again?
    For some reason the latter part of the link gets missed out, but you can get it by pasting this into the search address:
    www.oecd.org/officialdocuments/publicdisplaydocumentpdf/?cote=eco/wkp(2008)51&doclanguage=en
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited March 2018

    Curious. May's Brexit policy less clear than Corbyn's but more realistic, less disapproved and less likely to drive people away from her party. Maybe she's onto something.....
    Actually the poll doesn't quite say that her policy is less clear; the Guardian write-up is a bit misleading. The question asked whether: "Theresa May's/Jeremy Corbyn's policy on Brexit is much clearer than it was before". So perhaps people thought Theresa May's policy was already clear?
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,663
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896
    edited March 2018
    ICM Voting intention, change since 21 February

    Conservative 43% (+1)
    Labour 42% (-1)
    Lib Dems 7% (no change)
    Greens 3% (+1)
    Ukip 2% (-1)

    Is this a modern record for two-party VI at 85%?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926
    edited March 2018
    Looks like I'm in 'no man's land'
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926
    Sandpit said:

    ICM Voting intention, change since 21 February

    Conservative 43% (+1)
    Labour 42% (-1)
    Lib Dems 7% (no change)
    Greens 3% (+1)
    Ukip 2% (-1)

    Is this a modern record for two-party VI at 85%?

    It was 85 last poll. In 1951 the two party share was 96.8%.
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    hamiltonacehamiltonace Posts: 642

    Elliot said:

    Just had an email from regulatory consultant explaining that BSI (British Standards) will become Dutch. As such their audits will comply with Dutch law and allow us to issue CE marks as before. The only question we don't know is if the UK Government will now accept that control of the medical devices sold in the UK is under the Dutch.

    All British standards will become based on a country a third of the size. Sure.
    BSI’s role as an EU Notified Body will not change following the recent UK decision to leave the EU. While the UK Government sets out the arrangements for its withdrawal from the EU, we will be working closely with the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) and Department of Health to ensure continuity of our full scope designation as a Notified Body for Medical Devices.


    https://www.bsigroup.com/en-IL/medical-devices/news-centre/enews/2016-enews/eu-referendum/

    That is the public line. The reality is that BSI is telling its customers it is moving and don't worry

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    sarissasarissa Posts: 1,776
    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    Talking of PPE my son is about to enter a school economics essay competition. The question is what taxes are good taxes?

    Initial thoughts duties and other taxes designed to discourage self-destructive behaviours. Taxes which discourage excessive speculation perhaps. More arguably taxes designed to improve the Gini coefficient if you believe that increases societal stability. Possibly taxes which allow society to share in development gains that it has created or facilitated. Generally Colbert's goose may get a mention.

    Any more out there suggestions?

    I’d start with defining what is a good tax and work from there

    Something that is simple, easy/cheap to collect, hard to avoid, and non economically distorting.

    You can then compare various types of tax (income, capital, wealth, employment, sales etc) against those before zeroing in on more specific taxes

    From memory VAT comes pretty high up the spectrum of “good taxes”

    In terms of ease of collection/difficulty of avoiding, land/property would first, then essential local consumption (VAT/Fuel duty), people (basic incomes) and finance last of all unfortunately.
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    Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,816
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Talking of PPE my son is about to enter a school economics essay competition. The question is what taxes are good taxes?

    Initial thoughts duties and other taxes designed to discourage self-destructive behaviours. Taxes which discourage excessive speculation perhaps. More arguably taxes designed to improve the Gini coefficient if you believe that increases societal stability. Possibly taxes which allow society to share in development gains that it has created or facilitated. Generally Colbert's goose may get a mention.

    Any more out there suggestions?

    Economically, taxes which don't create large tax wedges and discourage economic activity. All taxes incentivise reduction of the supply of what they're taxing - which is why taxes on land tend to be the less distorting (they've already stopped making it). The OECD did an empirical investigation on which taxes most and least affect economic activity here: http://www.oecd.org/officialdocuments/publicdisplaydocumentpdf/?cote=eco/wkp(2008)51&doclanguage=en

    Short summary: profit taxes most reduce growth (economically, profit and growth can be near synonyms, so that's not surprising), then income taxes. Consumption taxes (eg VAT) have a significantly less effect and taxes on immovable land have the least negative effect (some designs of Land Value Tax - ie if based on the unimproved value of the land) have the near-unique property of increasing economic activity (if you're being taxed the same amount whether or not you've put something valuable on it, you may as well put something valuable on it and get the benefit).
    A financial transactions tax has the opposite extreme effect of being able to reduce the economic activity by more than the amount it gathers in tax, due to reducing the amount of transactions in the economy.
    Bad link. Can you try again?
    Sorry. Try this one
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896
    Sounds like business leaders and senior Republicans are trying to get Trump to understand that a global trade war is going to cost a lot of American jobs. Good luck to them!
This discussion has been closed.