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  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,880
    I was of the opinion that Putin's nerve agents on the streets of Salisbury lark was a bit of a storm in a samovar. It's now getting serious and I think even May is going to have to contort her enormous grey face into a mask of faux concern (see also Grenfell) and actually do something.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Foxy said:

    The announcement about washing clothing and possessions by the Chief Medical Officer must be a worry to many in Salisbury. She went on to say the risk is low but exposure to the agent over time could cause health issues

    It does seem to have been a slow acting agent, as it took some hours to affect the victims, hence the multiple contaminated sites.
    It adds to the theory that they could have been contaminated even at home and that they had a meal and then went to a pub before being overwhelmed. Very scary really.

    Also , is it possible to recover from this exposure to live a reasonable healthy life
    "Are any future health effects likely to occur?
    Complete recovery may take several months. After a severe exposure with prolonged seizures, permanent damage to the central nervous system is possible."

    https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/mmg/mmg.asp?id=523&tid=93
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718
    OchEye said:

    HYUFD said:

    calum said:

    A Moonlight poll - " shows the SNP on 34%, Labour on 30% and the Tories on 24% "

    https://www.theredrobin.scot/shock_poll_shows_labour_rapidly_gaining_on_snp

    SNP would still have most MPs on that poll though and Labour would likely still need their support on confidence and supply.

    A rather sycophantic quote attached to that poll " senior Labour insider said, “this is very encouraging and confirms the increasing support for Labour in Scotland under Jeremy Corbyn and Richard Leonard and their message of hope and transformation for the many now the few.
    "We still have much to do but this poll and other recent ones are evidence of a remarkable increase in support from just over a year ago and signifies the significant progress being made by Labour in Scotland."

    Yet unless Labour again wins most seats in Scotland it is unlikely to be able to win a majority across the whole of the UK even if Corbyn is still able to become PM with SNP support.

    The history of the SNP and Labour Party means that at a National level, relations will be severely distrustful. At a local government level, there is sometimes a marriage of convenience but the treaty documents are very, very detailed In Edinburgh, we saw the rings the SNP ran round a previous LibDem senior coalition led council. At a following council election, the LibDems were decimated, with even the LibDem leader losing her seat. Lessons were learned
    Looks like something happens to LibDems in coalition; either get rings run round them by the oppositiopn or are thoroughly stuffed by their erstwhile allies.
  • Ishmael_Z said:

    Foxy said:

    The announcement about washing clothing and possessions by the Chief Medical Officer must be a worry to many in Salisbury. She went on to say the risk is low but exposure to the agent over time could cause health issues

    It does seem to have been a slow acting agent, as it took some hours to affect the victims, hence the multiple contaminated sites.
    It adds to the theory that they could have been contaminated even at home and that they had a meal and then went to a pub before being overwhelmed. Very scary really.

    Also , is it possible to recover from this exposure to live a reasonable healthy life
    "Are any future health effects likely to occur?
    Complete recovery may take several months. After a severe exposure with prolonged seizures, permanent damage to the central nervous system is possible."

    https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/mmg/mmg.asp?id=523&tid=93
    Not good - this is a real crisis especially for the people of Salisbury
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712

    HYUFD said:

    WOOO just backed David Miliband to be next Lab leader.

    Great bet.

    Obvious potential.

    If David Miliband could not get elected Labour leader in 2010 he is not going to be next Labour leader now after the Momentum infiltration
    Perhaps if Corbyn is here for the next 10 years the party will be looking for a shift by then.
    If Corbyn is here for the next 10 years that means he has likely become PM after the 2022 general election and unless the Tories have a big poll lead ahead of the 2027 general election why would Labour members not pick a Corbynista to succeed him?
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Foxy said:

    The announcement about washing clothing and possessions by the Chief Medical Officer must be a worry to many in Salisbury. She went on to say the risk is low but exposure to the agent over time could cause health issues

    It does seem to have been a slow acting agent, as it took some hours to affect the victims, hence the multiple contaminated sites.
    It adds to the theory that they could have been contaminated even at home and that they had a meal and then went to a pub before being overwhelmed. Very scary really.

    Also , is it possible to recover from this exposure to live a reasonable healthy life
    "Are any future health effects likely to occur?
    Complete recovery may take several months. After a severe exposure with prolonged seizures, permanent damage to the central nervous system is possible."

    https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/mmg/mmg.asp?id=523&tid=93
    Not good - this is a real crisis especially for the people of Salisbury
    Certainly answers the question, Why didn't Putin just have him shot.
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    malcolmg said:

    OchEye said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    calum said:

    A Moonlight poll - " shows the SNP on 34%, Labour on 30% and the Tories on 24% "

    https://www.theredrobin.scot/shock_poll_shows_labour_rapidly_gaining_on_snp

    Reverting to form, the Scots? Well, SCON reached some dizzying heights (for them in recent decades) and can be proud if that.
    LOL, Labour poll by Labour dummies, deluded half wits.
    Well I did put it as a question mark. If Labour are not rapidly gaining on the SNP then presumably the Tories are still either maintaining parity with SLAB or exceeding them, or the SNP are reestablishing an even bigger lead.
    Problem for the SNP is the weakness of the Independence argument. Now that the mess of Brexit is becoming painfully obvious, Independence is less likely except to the hard core minority. Sturgeon and Murrell recognise this, and they are attempting to change the SNP into being seen as the "natural Party of Government" with the professionalism of the cabinet. Unfortunately, too many of Sturgeon's old friends are in there, have built up power bases of their own, and have been promoted to a level of their incompetence. While many of those, both on the Holyrood and Westminster backbenches are talented, wasted by not being in the Leader's clique and knowing that the next iScotRef will be sometime from the mid 2020's2 if ever.

    Davidson and Leonard will be attempting to peel away the SNP support, and it is beginning to look quite easy to do.
    Hello Neil, how are book sales of your tripe going , any Hope left
    Please make your mind up, you've told me that I'm Ruthie and and now Neil! By the way, which Neil am I supposed to be?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674
    OchEye said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    calum said:

    A Moonlight poll - " shows the SNP on 34%, Labour on 30% and the Tories on 24% "

    https://www.theredrobin.scot/shock_poll_shows_labour_rapidly_gaining_on_snp

    Reverting to form, the Scots? Well, SCON reached some dizzying heights (for them in recent decades) and can be proud if that.
    LOL, Labour poll by Labour dummies, deluded half wits.
    Well I did put it as a question mark. If Labour are not rapidly gaining on the SNP then presumably the Tories are still either maintaining parity with SLAB or exceeding them, or the SNP are reestablishing an even bigger lead.
    Problem for the SNP is the weakness of the Independence argument. Now that the mess of Brexit is becoming painfully obvious, Independence is less likely except to the hard core minority. Sturgeon and Murrell recognise this, and they are attempting to change the SNP into being seen as the "natural Party of Government" with the professionalism of the cabinet. Unfortunately, too many of Sturgeon's old friends are in there, have built up power bases of their own, and have been promoted to a level of their incompetence. While many of those, both on the Holyrood and Westminster backbenches are talented, wasted by not being in the Leader's clique and knowing that the next iScotRef will be sometime from the mid 2020's2 if ever.

    Davidson and Leonard will be attempting to peel away the SNP support, and it is beginning to look quite easy to do.
    Given davidson has been in hiding since last year and Leonard is even worse than previous donkeys , your loyal devotions are misplaced. Neither of those two will be able to peel away SNP support. Infighting and dropping independence will be only thing that kills the SNP. Politically they have no challengers.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    edited March 2018
    OchEye said:

    HYUFD said:

    calum said:

    A Moonlight poll - " shows the SNP on 34%, Labour on 30% and the Tories on 24% "

    https://www.theredrobin.scot/shock_poll_shows_labour_rapidly_gaining_on_snp

    SNP would still have most MPs on that poll though and Labour would likely still need their support on confidence and supply.

    A rather sycophantic quote attached to that poll " senior Labour insider said, “this is very encouraging and confirms the increasing support for Labour in Scotland under Jeremy Corbyn and Richard Leonard and their message of hope and transformation for the many now the few.
    "We still have much to do but this poll and other recent ones are evidence of a remarkable increase in support from just over a year ago and signifies the significant progress being made by Labour in Scotland."

    Yet unless Labour again wins most seats in Scotland it is unlikely to be able to win a majority across the whole of the UK even if Corbyn is still able to become PM with SNP support.

    The history of the SNP and Labour Party means that at a National level, relations will be severely distrustful. At a local government level, there is sometimes a marriage of convenience but the treaty documents are very, very detailed In Edinburgh, we saw the rings the SNP ran round a previous LibDem senior coalition led council. At a following council election, the LibDems were decimated, with even the LibDem leader losing her seat. Lessons were learned
    Indeed but on current polls Corbyn will likely need the votes of SNP MPs to become PM so he needs to start thinking about possible arrangements with them now
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674
    Dura_Ace said:

    I was of the opinion that Putin's nerve agents on the streets of Salisbury lark was a bit of a storm in a samovar. It's now getting serious and I think even May is going to have to contort her enormous grey face into a mask of faux concern (see also Grenfell) and actually do something.

    Hard to see the Tories doing anything about the money laundering crooks they are so pally with and get lots of donations from. Will be no use of all that power they have or help from all their friends. They will lie down again and wait for the next kick in the bollox whilst pretending to be world leaders. Putin must be chuckling.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674
    edited March 2018
    OchEye said:

    malcolmg said:

    OchEye said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    calum said:

    A Moonlight poll - " shows the SNP on 34%, Labour on 30% and the Tories on 24% "

    https://www.theredrobin.scot/shock_poll_shows_labour_rapidly_gaining_on_snp

    Reverting to form, the Scots? Well, SCON reached some dizzying heights (for them in recent decades) and can be proud if that.
    LOL, Labour poll by Labour dummies, deluded half wits.
    Well I did put it as a question mark. If Labour are not rapidly gaining on the SNP then presumably the Tories are still either maintaining parity with SLAB or exceeding them, or the SNP are reestablishing an even bigger lead.
    Problem for the SNP is the weakness of the Independence argument. Now that the mess of Brexit is becoming painfully obvious, Independence is less likely except to the hard core minority. Sturgeon and Murrell recognise this, and they are attempting to change the SNP into being seen as the "natural Party of Government" with the professionalism of the cabinet. Unfortunately, too many of Sturgeon's old friends are in there, have built up power bases of their own, and have been promoted to a level of their incompetence. While many of those, both on the Holyrood and Westminster backbenches are talented, wasted by not being in the Leader's clique and knowing that the next iScotRef will be sometime from the mid 2020's2 if ever.

    Davidson and Leonard will be attempting to peel away the SNP support, and it is beginning to look quite easy to do.
    Hello Neil, how are book sales of your tripe going , any Hope left
    Please make your mind up, you've told me that I'm Ruthie and and now Neil! By the way, which Neil am I supposed to be?
    Shows how much you know of Scottish politics , the deluded halfwit who has just published a book, Findlay. I understand now that you may just be a gormless fool rather than a labour stooge.

    PS: what part of south east England do you live in
    PPS: This halfwit
    Citing some recent poll numbers, Neil Findlay tells the Tories at Westminster and the SNP at Holyrood - “we’re breathing down your neck, and we’re coming for you”
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,749
    OchEye said:

    HYUFD said:

    calum said:

    A Moonlight poll - " shows the SNP on 34%, Labour on 30% and the Tories on 24% "

    https://www.theredrobin.scot/shock_poll_shows_labour_rapidly_gaining_on_snp

    SNP would still have most MPs on that poll though and Labour would likely still need their support on confidence and supply.

    A rather sycophantic quote attached to that poll " senior Labour insider said, “this is very encouraging and confirms the increasing support for Labour in Scotland under Jeremy Corbyn and Richard Leonard and their message of hope and transformation for the many now the few.
    "We still have much to do but this poll and other recent ones are evidence of a remarkable increase in support from just over a year ago and signifies the significant progress being made by Labour in Scotland."

    Yet unless Labour again wins most seats in Scotland it is unlikely to be able to win a majority across the whole of the UK even if Corbyn is still able to become PM with SNP support.

    The history of the SNP and Labour Party means that at a National level, relations will be severely distrustful. At a local government level, there is sometimes a marriage of convenience but the treaty documents are very, very detailed In Edinburgh, we saw the rings the SNP ran round a previous LibDem senior coalition led council. At a following council election, the LibDems were decimated, with even the LibDem leader losing her seat. Lessons were learned
    How many council 'marriages of convenience' does SLab have with SCon?
  • malcolmg said:

    OchEye said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    calum said:

    A Moonlight poll - " shows the SNP on 34%, Labour on 30% and the Tories on 24% "

    https://www.theredrobin.scot/shock_poll_shows_labour_rapidly_gaining_on_snp

    Reverting to form, the Scots? Well, SCON reached some dizzying heights (for them in recent decades) and can be proud if that.
    LOL, Labour poll by Labour dummies, deluded half wits.
    Well I did put it as a question mark. If Labour are not rapidly gaining on the SNP then presumably the Tories are still either maintaining parity with SLAB or exceeding them, or the SNP are reestablishing an even bigger lead.
    Problem for the SNP is the weakness of the Independence argument. Now that the mess of Brexit is becoming painfully obvious, Independence is less likely except to the hard core minority. Sturgeon and Murrell recognise this, and they are attempting to change the SNP into being seen as the "natural Party of Government" with the professionalism of the cabinet. Unfortunately, too many of Sturgeon's old friends are in there, have built up power bases of their own, and have been promoted to a level of their incompetence. While many of those, both on the Holyrood and Westminster backbenches are talented, wasted by not being in the Leader's clique and knowing that the next iScotRef will be sometime from the mid 2020's2 if ever.

    Davidson and Leonard will be attempting to peel away the SNP support, and it is beginning to look quite easy to do.
    Given davidson has been in hiding since last year and Leonard is even worse than previous donkeys , your loyal devotions are misplaced. Neither of those two will be able to peel away SNP support. Infighting and dropping independence will be only thing that kills the SNP. Politically they have no challengers.
    Morning Malc - I would have voted SNP if I still lived in Scotland but not because of their Independence stance. However, today I would vote Scon because they would protect the fishing industry better than the SNP or the English led Labour
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,749
    malcolmg said:

    I understand now that you may just be a gormless fool rather than a labour stooge.

    The two are not mutually exclusive.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,749
    Dura_Ace said:

    I was of the opinion that Putin's nerve agents on the streets of Salisbury lark was a bit of a storm in a samovar. It's now getting serious and I think even May is going to have to contort her enormous grey face into a mask of faux concern (see also Grenfell) and actually do something.

    We'll know it's serious when they return the money paid by Russian geezers for dinner with Ruth & Gav and tennis with Dave etc.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    edited March 2018
    malcolmg said:

    OchEye said:

    malcolmg said:

    OchEye said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    calum said:

    A Moonlight poll - " shows the SNP on 34%, Labour on 30% and the Tories on 24% "

    https://www.theredrobin.scot/shock_poll_shows_labour_rapidly_gaining_on_snp

    Reverting to form, the Scots? Well, SCON reached some dizzying heights (for them in recent decades) and can be proud if that.
    LOL, Labour poll by Labour dummies, deluded half wits.
    Well I did put it as a question mark. If Labour are not rapidly gaining on the SNP then presumably the Tories are still either maintaining parity with SLAB or exceeding them, or the SNP are reestablishing an even bigger lead.
    Problem for the SNP is the weakness of the Independence argument. Now that the mess of Brexit is becoming painfully obvious, Independence is less likely except to the hard core minority. Sturgeon and Murrell recognise this, and they are attempting to change the SNP into being seen as the "natural Party of Government" with the professionalism of the cabinet. Unfortunately, too many of Sturgeon's old friends are in there, have built up power bases of their own, and have been promoted to a level of their incompetence. While many of those, both on the Holyrood and Westminster backbenches are talented, wasted by not being in the Leader's clique and knowing that the next iScotRef will be sometime from the mid 2020's2 if ever.

    Davidson and Leonard will be attempting to peel away the SNP support, and it is beginning to look quite easy to do.
    Hello Neil, how are book sales of your tripe going , any Hope left
    Please make your mind up, you've told me that I'm Ruthie and and now Neil! By the way, which Neil am I supposed to be?
    Shows how much you know of Scottish politics , the deluded halfwit who has just published a book, Findlay. I understand now that you may just be a gormless fool rather than a labour stooge.

    PS: what part of south east England do you live in
    PPS: This halfwit
    Citing some recent poll numbers, Neil Findlay tells the Tories at Westminster and the SNP at Holyrood - “we’re breathing down your neck, and we’re coming for you”
    At the moment polls show the most likely result of the next UK general election is Labour will be largest party but the SNP holds the balance of power and the most likely result of the next Scottish Parliament election is the SNP will be the largest party but Labour will hold the balance of power. Which would be interesting
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674

    malcolmg said:

    OchEye said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    calum said:

    A Moonlight poll - " shows the SNP on 34%, Labour on 30% and the Tories on 24% "

    https://www.theredrobin.scot/shock_poll_shows_labour_rapidly_gaining_on_snp

    Reverting to form, the Scots? Well, SCON reached some dizzying heights (for them in recent decades) and can be proud if that.
    LOL, Labour poll by Labour dummies, deluded half wits.
    Well I did put it as a question mark. If Labour are not rapidly gaining on the SNP then presumably the Tories are still either maintaining parity with SLAB or exceeding them, or the SNP are reestablishing an even bigger lead.
    Problem for the SNP is the weakness of the Independence argument. Now that the mess of Brexit is becoming painfully obvious, Independence is less likely except to the hard core minority. Sturgeon and Murrell recognise this, and they are attempting to change the SNP into being seen as the "natural Party of Government" with the professionalism of the cabinet. Unfortunately, too many of Sturgeon's old friends are in there, have built up power bases of their own, and have been promoted to a level of their incompetence. While many of those, both on the Holyrood and Westminster backbenches are talented, wasted by not being in the Leader's clique and knowing that the next iScotRef will be sometime from the mid 2020's2 if ever.

    Davidson and Leonard will be attempting to peel away the SNP support, and it is beginning to look quite easy to do.
    Given davidson has been in hiding since last year and Leonard is even worse than previous donkeys , your loyal devotions are misplaced. Neither of those two will be able to peel away SNP support. Infighting and dropping independence will be only thing that kills the SNP. Politically they have no challengers.
    Morning Malc - I would have voted SNP if I still lived in Scotland but not because of their Independence stance. However, today I would vote Scon because they would protect the fishing industry better than the SNP or the English led Labour
    G , morning. I wish I had your confidence that the Tories would actually enact something they pretend to support. My guess is they will not devolve fishing and will use it as a bargaining chip to help south of England gain something.
    We will soon find out and I predict the NE fishermen ( the few that are left ) will have been duped yet again. They have no interest in helping in Scotland , both those duplicitous self seeking nasties are only seeking self interest.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674

    Dura_Ace said:

    I was of the opinion that Putin's nerve agents on the streets of Salisbury lark was a bit of a storm in a samovar. It's now getting serious and I think even May is going to have to contort her enormous grey face into a mask of faux concern (see also Grenfell) and actually do something.

    We'll know it's serious when they return the money paid by Russian geezers for dinner with Ruth & Gav and tennis with Dave etc.
    Fat chance
  • malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    OchEye said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    calum said:

    A Moonlight poll - " shows the SNP on 34%, Labour on 30% and the Tories on 24% "

    https://www.theredrobin.scot/shock_poll_shows_labour_rapidly_gaining_on_snp

    Reverting to form, the Scots? Well, SCON reached some dizzying heights (for them in recent decades) and can be proud if that.
    LOL, Labour poll by Labour dummies, deluded half wits.
    Well I did put it as a question mark. If Labour are not rapidly gaining on the SNP then presumably the Tories are still either maintaining parity with SLAB or exceeding them, or the SNP are reesteven bigger lead.
    Problem for the SNP is the weakness of the Independence argument. Now that the mess of Brexit is becoming painfully obvious, Independence is less likely except to the hard core minority. Sturgeon and Murrell recognise this, and they are attempting to change the SNP into being seen as the "natural Party of Government" with the professionalism of the cabinet. Unfortunately, too many of Sturgeon's old friends are in there, have built up power bases of their own, and have been promoted to a level of their incompetence. While many of those, both on the Holyrood and Westminster backbenches are talented, wasted by not being in the Leader's clique and knowing that the next iScotRef will be sometime from the mid 2020's2 if ever.

    Davidson and Leonard will be attempting to peel away the SNP support, and it is beginning to look quite easy to do.
    Given davidson has been in hiding since last year and Leonard is even worse than previous donkeys , your loyal devotions are misplaced. Neither of those two will be able to peel away SNP support. Infighting and dropping independence will be only thing that kills the SNP. Politically they have no challengers.
    Morning Malc - I would have voted SNP if I still lived in Scotland but not because of their Independence stance. However, today I would vote Scon because they would protect the fishing industry better than the SNP or the English led Labour
    G , morning. I wish I had your confidence that the Tories would actually enact something they pretend to support. My guess is they will not devolve fishing and will use it as a bargaining chip to help south of England gain something.
    We will soon find out and I predict the NE fishermen ( the few that are left ) will have been duped yet again. They have no interest in helping in Scotland , both those duplicitous self seeking nasties are only seeking self interest.
    You are so cynical and sometimes you are right, but Gove and Davidson will fight for the fisher folk
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    malcolmg said:

    OchEye said:

    malcolmg said:

    OchEye said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    calum said:

    A Moonlight poll - " shows the SNP on 34%, Labour on 30% and the Tories on 24% "

    https://www.theredrobin.scot/shock_poll_shows_labour_rapidly_gaining_on_snp

    Reverting to form, the Scots? Well, SCON reached some dizzying heights (for them in recent decades) and can be proud if that.
    LOL, Labour poll by Labour dummies, deluded half wits.
    Well I did put it as a question mark. If Labour are not rapidly gaining on the SNP then presumably the Tories are still either maintaining parity with SLAB or exceeding them, or the SNP are reestablishing an even bigger lead.
    Problem for the SNP is the weakness of the Independence argument. Now that the mess of Brexit is becoming painfully obvious, Independence is less likely except to the hard core minority. Sturgeon and Murrell recognise this, and they are attempting to change the SNP into being seen as the "natural Party of Government" with the professionalism of the cabinet. Unfortunately, too many of Sturgeon's old friends are in there, have built up power bases of their own, and have been promoted to a level of their incompetence. While many of those, both on the Holyrood and Westminster backbenches are talented, wasted by not being in the Leader's clique and knowing that the next iScotRef will be sometime from the mid 2020's2 if ever.

    Davidson and Leonard will be attempting to peel away the SNP support, and it is beginning to look quite easy to do.
    Hello Neil, how are book sales of your tripe going , any Hope left
    Please make your mind up, you've told me that I'm Ruthie and and now Neil! By the way, which Neil am I supposed to be?
    Shows how much you know of Scottish politics , the deluded halfwit who has just published a book, Findlay. I understand now that you may just be a gormless fool rather than a labour stooge.

    PS: what part of south east England do you live in
    PPS: This halfwit
    Citing some recent poll numbers, Neil Findlay tells the Tories at Westminster and the SNP at Holyrood - “we’re breathing down your neck, and we’re coming for you”
    Try the South East of Edinburgh. And let me see, is that the Neil Findlay who will be introducing a Bill into Holyrood banning MSP's from having second jobs?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674
    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    OchEye said:

    malcolmg said:

    OchEye said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    calum said:

    A Moonlight poll - " shows the SNP on 34%, Labour on 30% and the Tories on 24% "

    https://www.theredrobin.scot/shock_poll_shows_labour_rapidly_gaining_on_snp

    Reverting to form, the Scots? Well, SCON reached some dizzying heights (for them in recent decades) and can be proud if that.
    LOL, Labour poll by Labour dummies, deluded half wits.
    Well I did put it as a question mark. If Labour are not rapidly gaining on the SNP then presumably the Tories are still either maintaining parity with SLAB or exceeding them, or the SNP are reestablishing an even bigger lead.
    Problem for the SNP is the weakness of the Independence argument. Now that the mess of Brexit is becoming painfully obvious, Independence is less likely except to the hard core minority. Sturgeon and Murrell recognise this, and they

    Davidson and Leonard will be attempting to peel away the SNP support, and it is beginning to look quite easy to do.
    Hello Neil, how are book sales of your tripe going , any Hope left
    Please make your mind up, you've told me that I'm Ruthie and and now Neil! By the way, which Neil am I supposed to be?
    Shows how much you know of Scottish politics , the deluded halfwit who has just published a book, Findlay. I understand now that you may just be a gormless fool rather than a labour stooge.

    PS: what part of south east England do you live in
    PPS: This halfwit
    Citing some recent poll numbers, Neil Findlay tells the Tories at Westminster and the SNP at Holyrood - “we’re breathing down your neck, and we’re coming for you”
    At the moment the most likely result of the next UK general election is Labour will be largest party but the SNP holds the balance of power and the most likely result of the next Scottish Parliament election is the SNP will be the largest party but Labour will hold the balance of power. Which would be interesting
    Very , much as I dislike the Tories I would have them before the current bunch of absolute losers that are Labour at Westminster. Hard to say at Holyrood, as someone with at least two brain cells functioning it is hard to believe that people vote for the dross that is Labour's regional puppet party and the turnips that are Tory MSP's are of the same calibre.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,519

    Dura_Ace said:

    I was of the opinion that Putin's nerve agents on the streets of Salisbury lark was a bit of a storm in a samovar. It's now getting serious and I think even May is going to have to contort her enormous grey face into a mask of faux concern (see also Grenfell) and actually do something.

    We'll know it's serious when they return the money paid by Russian geezers for dinner with Ruth & Gav and tennis with Dave etc.
    Yeah, because only Conservatives have dodgy links with Russia:
    https://www.rt.com/shows/alex-salmond-show/

    ;)
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674
    OchEye said:

    malcolmg said:

    OchEye said:

    malcolmg said:

    OchEye said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    calum said:

    A Moonlight poll - " shows the SNP on 34%, Labour on 30% and the Tories on 24% "

    https://www.theredrobin.scot/shock_poll_shows_labour_rapidly_gaining_on_snp

    Reverting to form, the Scots? Well, SCON reached some dizzying heights (for them in recent decades) and can be proud if that.
    LOL, Labour poll by Labour dummies, deluded half wits.
    Well I did put it as a question mark. If Labour are not rapidly gaining on the SNP then presumably the Tories are still either maintaining parity with SLAB or exceeding them, or the SNP are reestablishing an even bigger lead.
    Problem for the SNP is the weakness of the Independence argument. Now that the mess of Brexit is becoming painfully obvious, Independence is less likely except to the hard core minority. Sturgeon and Murrell recognise this, and they are attempting to change the SNP into being seen as the "natural Party of Government" with the professionalism of the cabinet. Unfortunately, too many of Sturgeon's old friends are in there, have built up power bases of their own, and have been promoted to a level of their incompetence. While many of those, both on the Holyrood and Westminster backbenches are talented, wasted by not being in the Leader's clique and knowing that the next iScotRef will be sometime from the mid 2020's2 if ever.

    Davidson and Leonard will be attempting to peel away the SNP support, and it is beginning to look quite easy to do.
    Hello Neil, how are book sales of your tripe going , any Hope left
    Please make your mind up, you've told me that I'm Ruthie and and now Neil! By the way, which Neil am I supposed to be?
    Shows how much you know of Scottish politics , the deluded halfwit who has just published a book, Findlay. I understand now that you may just be a gormless fool rather than a labour stooge.

    PS: what part of south east England do you live in
    PPS: This halfwit
    Citing some recent poll numbers, Neil Findlay tells the Tories at Westminster and the SNP at Holyrood - “we’re breathing down your neck, and we’re coming for you”
    Try the South East of Edinburgh. And let me see, is that the Neil Findlay who will be introducing a Bill into Holyrood banning MSP's from having second jobs?
    The same one that would have trouble tying his shoelaces unaided. He must have someone writing it for him, given he cannot do his one job.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    edited March 2018
    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    OchEye said:

    malcolmg said:

    OchEye said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    calum said:

    A Moonlight poll - " shows the SNP on 34%, Labour on 30% and the Tories on 24% "

    https://www.theredrobin.scot/shock_poll_shows_labour_rapidly_gaining_on_snp

    Reverting to form, the Scots? Well, SCON reached some dizzying heights (for them in recent decades) and can be proud if that.
    LOL, Labour poll by Labour dummies, deluded half wits.
    Well I did put it as a question mark. If Labour are not rapidly gaining on the SNP then presumably the Tories are still either maintaining parity with SLAB or exceeding them, or the SNP are reestablishing an even bigger lead.
    Problem for the SNP is the weakness of the Independence argument. Now that the mess of Brexit is becoming painfully obvious, Independence is less likely except to the hard core minority. Sturgeon and Murrell recognise this, and they

    Davidson and Leonard will be attempting to peel away the SNP support, and it is beginning to look quite easy to do.
    Hello Neil, how are book sales of your tripe going , any Hope left
    Please make your mind up, you've told me that I'm Ruthie and and now Neil! By the way, which Neil am I supposed to be?
    Shows how much you know of Scottish politics , the deluded halfwit who has just published a book, Findlay. I understand now that you may just be a gormless fool rather than a labour stooge.

    PS: what part of south east England do you live in
    PPS: This halfwit
    Citing some recent poll numbers, Neil Findlay tells the Tories at Westminster and the SNP at Holyrood - “we’re breathing down your neck, and we’re coming for you”
    At the moment the most likely result of the next UK general election is Labour will be largest party but the SNP holds the balance of power and the most likely result of the next Scottish Parliament election is the SNP will be the largest party but Labour will hold the balance of power. Which would be interesting
    Very , much as I dislike the Tories I would have them before the current bunch of absolute losers that are Labour at Westminster. Hard to say at Holyrood, as someone with at least two brain cells functioning it is hard to believe that people vote for the dross that is Labour's regional puppet party and the turnips that are Tory MSP's are of the same calibre.
    Maybe Malc but you better get used to working with Labour as there is a significant possibility Nats will be doing a lot of it at both Westminster and Holyrood after the next elections
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718
    malcolmg said:

    OchEye said:

    malcolmg said:

    OchEye said:

    malcolmg said:

    OchEye said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    calum said:

    A Moonlight poll - " shows the SNP on 34%, Labour on 30% and the Tories on 24% "

    https://www.theredrobin.scot/shock_poll_shows_labour_rapidly_gaining_on_snp

    Reverting to form, the Scots? Well, SCON reached some dizzying heights (for them in recent decades) and can be proud if that.
    LOL, Labour poll by Labour dummies, deluded half wits.
    Well I did put it as a question mark. If Labour are not rapidly gaining on the SNP then presumably the Tories are still either maintaining parity with SLAB or exceeding them, or the SNP are reestablishing an even bigger lead.
    Problem for the SNP is the weakness of the Independence argument. Now that the mess of Brexit is becoming painfully obvious, Independence is less likely except to the hard core minority. Sturgeon and Murrell recognise this, and they are attempting to change the SNP into being seen as the "natural Party of Government" with the professionalism of the cabinet. Unfortunately, too many of Sturgeon's old friends are in there, have built up power bases of their own, and have been promoted to a level of their incompetence. While many of those, both on the Holyrood and Westminster backbenches are talented, wasted by not being in the Leader's clique and knowing that the next iScotRef will be sometime from the mid 2020's2 if ever.

    Davidson and Leonard will be attempting to peel away the SNP support, and it is beginning to look quite easy to do.
    Hello Neil, how are book sales of your tripe going , any Hope left
    Please make your mind up, you've told me that I'm Ruthie and and now Neil! By the way, which Neil am I supposed to be?
    Shows how much you know of Scottish politics , the deluded halfwit who has just published a book, Findlay. I understand now that you may just be a gormless fool rather than a labour stooge.

    PS: what part of south east England do you live in
    PPS: This halfwit
    Citing some recent poll numbers, Neil Findlay tells the Tories at Westminster and the SNP at Holyrood - “we’re breathing down your neck, and we’re coming for you”
    Try the South East of Edinburgh. And let me see, is that the Neil Findlay who will be introducing a Bill into Holyrood banning MSP's from having second jobs?
    The same one that would have trouble tying his shoelaces unaided. He must have someone writing it for him, given he cannot do his one job.
    I’d hate to be someone of whom Malc formed a low opinion.
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Foxy said:

    The announcement about washing clothing and possessions by the Chief Medical Officer must be a worry to many in Salisbury. She went on to say the risk is low but exposure to the agent over time could cause health issues

    It does seem to have been a slow acting agent, as it took some hours to affect the victims, hence the multiple contaminated sites.
    It adds to the theory that they could have been contaminated even at home and that they had a meal and then went to a pub before being overwhelmed. Very scary really.

    Also , is it possible to recover from this exposure to live a reasonable healthy life
    "Are any future health effects likely to occur?
    Complete recovery may take several months. After a severe exposure with prolonged seizures, permanent damage to the central nervous system is possible."

    https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/mmg/mmg.asp?id=523&tid=93
    Not good - this is a real crisis especially for the people of Salisbury
    It's a partial breakdown in international relations. A gentleman's agreement between the USA and the Soviet Union on how to treat each others' spies broke down when the Cold War ended

    http://www.nytimes.com/1996/11/12/world/spies-can-t-even-trust-the-other-side-anymore.html
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    WOOO just backed David Miliband to be next Lab leader.

    Great bet.

    Obvious potential.

    If David Miliband could not get elected Labour leader in 2010 he is not going to be next Labour leader now after the Momentum infiltration
    Perhaps if Corbyn is here for the next 10 years the party will be looking for a shift by then.
    If Corbyn is here for the next 10 years that means he has likely become PM after the 2022 general election and unless the Tories have a big poll lead ahead of the 2027 general election why would Labour members not pick a Corbynista to succeed him?
    Go back 10 years and the idea of anyone from the left of the party even being given the wifi code let alone the leadership would have been unthinkable. 2027 will be as different to 2018 as 2008 is from today.
  • HistorianHistorian Posts: 23
    I doubt whether John Bercow will lose his job.

    However the Speaker is supposed to be impartial, and that makes it very unlikely that any past front line politician would get the post. I cannot think of an occasion when a former minister/party leader subsequently became Speaker. And that rules out Harriet Harman.
  • ‪Judging by the flags on display at Ibrox it appears the football match is Great Britain versus Côte d'Ivoire. Am I right ? Where is the Saltire ?‬
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,749

    Dura_Ace said:

    I was of the opinion that Putin's nerve agents on the streets of Salisbury lark was a bit of a storm in a samovar. It's now getting serious and I think even May is going to have to contort her enormous grey face into a mask of faux concern (see also Grenfell) and actually do something.

    We'll know it's serious when they return the money paid by Russian geezers for dinner with Ruth & Gav and tennis with Dave etc.
    Yeah, because only Conservatives have dodgy links with Russia:
    https://www.rt.com/shows/alex-salmond-show/

    ;)
    Positively and lumberingly Pavlovian (& I don't mean the ballet dancer).

    You'll at least be able to distinguish between private citizens and elected members and ministers of the governing party of the UK I hope.
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    HYUFD said:

    OchEye said:

    HYUFD said:

    calum said:

    A Moonlight poll - " shows the SNP on 34%, Labour on 30% and the Tories on 24% "

    https://www.theredrobin.scot/shock_poll_shows_labour_rapidly_gaining_on_snp

    SNP would still have most MPs on that poll though and Labour would likely still need their support on confidence and supply.

    A rather sycophantic quote attached to that poll " senior Labour insider said, “this is very encouraging and confirms the increasing support for Labour in Scotland under Jeremy Corbyn and Richard Leonard and their message of hope and transformation for the many now the few.
    "We still have much to do but this poll and other recent ones are evidence of a remarkable increase in support from just over a year ago and signifies the significant progress being made by Labour in Scotland."

    Yet unless Labour again wins most seats in Scotland it is unlikely to be able to win a majority across the whole of the UK even if Corbyn is still able to become PM with SNP support.

    The history of the SNP and Labour Party means that at a National level, relations will be severely distrustful. At a local government level, there is sometimes a marriage of convenience but the treaty documents are very, very detailed In Edinburgh, we saw the rings the SNP ran round a previous LibDem senior coalition led council. At a following council election, the LibDems were decimated, with even the LibDem leader losing her seat. Lessons were learned
    Indeed but on current polls Corbyn will likely need the votes of SNP MPs to become PM so he needs to start thinking about possible arrangements with them now
    You are ignoring the problem that the SNP has, in that too many of the Scottish Westminster seats, Labour only needs a small swing to win them. Similarly, in many others, in the farming and fishing constituencies, traditionally Conservative/LibDems, many of the electorate are unhappy with the SNP.
    If there is a GE soon, then there will probably be a SNP meltdown, which doesn't augur well for the next Holyrood one.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Eagles, do you mean Ivory Coast?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    edited March 2018

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    WOOO just backed David Miliband to be next Lab leader.

    Great bet.

    Obvious potential.

    If David Miliband could not get elected Labour leader in 2010 he is not going to be next Labour leader now after the Momentum infiltration
    Perhaps if Corbyn is here for the next 10 years the party will be looking for a shift by then.
    If Corbyn is here for the next 10 years that means he has likely become PM after the 2022 general election and unless the Tories have a big poll lead ahead of the 2027 general election why would Labour members not pick a Corbynista to succeed him?
    Go back 10 years and the idea of anyone from the left of the party even being given the wifi code let alone the leadership would have been unthinkable. 2027 will be as different to 2018 as 2008 is from today.
    Only if the Tories win a majority in 2022 and Corbynism is clearly defeated.

    After Blair won the Labour leadership in 1994 Blairism held a grip on Labour for at least 13 years. Given Corbyn won the 2015 Labour leadership election if he is equally able to win a general election as Blair was (and he has already got a hung parliament even if he has failed to win outright as yet) then it would be 2028 before Labour would even consider a move to a leader with a different ideological worldview and by which time David Miliband will be long past it.

    David Miliband's best bet would be to win a by election before the next general election and then for the Tories to win an overall majority at that election
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,749

    ‪Judging by the flags on display at Ibrox it appears the football match is Great Britain versus Côte d'Ivoire. Am I right ? Where is the Saltire ?‬

    There'll be a few Star of Davids and Palestinian flags around, the ugly sisters are big on multiculture.
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469

    OchEye said:

    HYUFD said:

    calum said:

    A Moonlight poll - " shows the SNP on 34%, Labour on 30% and the Tories on 24% "

    https://www.theredrobin.scot/shock_poll_shows_labour_rapidly_gaining_on_snp

    SNP would still have most MPs on that poll though and Labour would likely still need their support on confidence and supply.

    A rather sycophantic quote attached to that poll " senior Labour insider said, “this is very encouraging and confirms the increasing support for Labour in Scotland under Jeremy Corbyn and Richard Leonard and their message of hope and transformation for the many now the few.
    "We still have much to do but this poll and other recent ones are evidence of a remarkable increase in support from just over a year ago and signifies the significant progress being made by Labour in Scotland."

    Yet unless Labour again wins most seats in Scotland it is unlikely to be able to win a majority across the whole of the UK even if Corbyn is still able to become PM with SNP support.

    The history of the SNP and Labour Party means that at a National level, relations will be severely distrustful. At a local government level, there is sometimes a marriage of convenience but the treaty documents are very, very detailed In Edinburgh, we saw the rings the SNP ran round a previous LibDem senior coalition led council. At a following council election, the LibDems were decimated, with even the LibDem leader losing her seat. Lessons were learned
    How many council 'marriages of convenience' does SLab have with SCon?
    Who cares? The argument is on the SNP's record in coalition, and it isn't pleasant reading...
  • Mr. Eagles, do you mean Ivory Coast?

    Well as PB’s leading Francophile I like to respect the Francophone countries and call them by their proper name.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Foxy said:

    The announcement about washing clothing and possessions by the Chief Medical Officer must be a worry to many in Salisbury. She went on to say the risk is low but exposure to the agent over time could cause health issues

    It does seem to have been a slow acting agent, as it took some hours to affect the victims, hence the multiple contaminated sites.
    It adds to the theory that they could have been contaminated even at home and that they had a meal and then went to a pub before being overwhelmed. Very scary really.

    Also , is it possible to recover from this exposure to live a reasonable healthy life
    "Are any future health effects likely to occur?
    Complete recovery may take several months. After a severe exposure with prolonged seizures, permanent damage to the central nervous system is possible."

    https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/mmg/mmg.asp?id=523&tid=93
    Not good - this is a real crisis especially for the people of Salisbury
    It's a partial breakdown in international relations. A gentleman's agreement between the USA and the Soviet Union on how to treat each others' spies broke down when the Cold War ended

    http://www.nytimes.com/1996/11/12/world/spies-can-t-even-trust-the-other-side-anymore.html
    It’s going to need to be proper sanctions against Russia - expulsion of every diplomat (they’re all spies anyway), freezing assets and bank accounts in London, refusing business visas to Russians, do everything we can to help Northern Europe get gas from anywhere else. Maybe even organise a mass boycott of the World Cup.

    Right now Putin’s relying on us doing nothing.

    Oh, and make sure any other defectors around Britain get new identities and moved to safe houses ASAP.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969
    edited March 2018

    ‪Judging by the flags on display at Ibrox it appears the football match is Great Britain versus Côte d'Ivoire. Am I right ? Where is the Saltire ?‬

    There'll be a few Star of Davids and Palestinian flags around, the ugly sisters are big on multiculture.
    Where would Scotland be without the Old Firm and the tolerance they bring?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 11,184

    Mr. Eagles, do you mean Ivory Coast?

    I'm puzzled by this too. Why have we started referring to the Ivory Coast and East Timor in their own languages, when we still refer to most countries in English. We haven't started talking about Suomi-Finaldn and Sverige and Hrvatska.

    I don't mind, I'm just puzzled about why those two have been singled out.

    And I'm still not sure whether Czechia will ever catch on.

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,749
    OchEye said:

    OchEye said:

    HYUFD said:

    calum said:

    A Moonlight poll - " shows the SNP on 34%, Labour on 30% and the Tories on 24% "

    https://www.theredrobin.scot/shock_poll_shows_labour_rapidly_gaining_on_snp

    SNP would still have most MPs on that poll though and Labour would likely still need their support on confidence and supply.

    A rather sycophantic quote attached to that poll " senior Labour insider said, “this is very encouraging and confirms the increasing support for Labour in Scotland under Jeremy Corbyn and Richard Leonard and their message of hope and transformation for the many now the few.
    "We still have much to do but this poll and other recent ones are evidence of a remarkable increase in support from just over a year ago and signifies the significant progress being made by Labour in Scotland."

    Yet unless Labour again wins most seats in Scotland it is unlikely to be able to win a majority across the whole of the UK even if Corbyn is still able to become PM with SNP support.

    The history of the SNP and Labour Party means that at a National level, relations will be severely distrustful. At a local government level, there is sometimes a marriage of convenience but the treaty documents are very, very detailed In Edinburgh, we saw the rings the SNP ran round a previous LibDem senior coalition led council. At a following council election, the LibDems were decimated, with even the LibDem leader losing her seat. Lessons were learned
    How many council 'marriages of convenience' does SLab have with SCon?
    Who cares? The argument is on the SNP's record in coalition, and it isn't pleasant reading...
    'Scottish Labour supporter doesn't care about his party being in coalition with the Tories'

    Always good to have confirmation of a strong suspicion.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    Dura_Ace said:

    I was of the opinion that Putin's nerve agents on the streets of Salisbury lark was a bit of a storm in a samovar. It's now getting serious and I think even May is going to have to contort her enormous grey face into a mask of faux concern (see also Grenfell) and actually do something.

    We'll know it's serious when they return the money paid by Russian geezers for dinner with Ruth & Gav and tennis with Dave etc.
    Yeah, because only Conservatives have dodgy links with Russia:
    https://www.rt.com/shows/alex-salmond-show/

    ;)
    Where’s RT’s studio? We need to shut that down too.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    OchEye said:

    HYUFD said:

    OchEye said:

    HYUFD said:

    calum said:

    A Moonlight poll - " shows the SNP on 34%, Labour on 30% and the Tories on 24% "

    https://www.theredrobin.scot/shock_poll_shows_labour_rapidly_gaining_on_snp

    SNP would still have most MPs on that poll though and Labour would likely still need their support on confidence and supply.

    A rather sycophantic quote attached to that poll " senior Labour insider said, “this is very encouraging and confirms the increasing support for Labour in Scotland under Jeremy Corbyn and Richard Leonard and their message of hope and transformation for the many now the few.
    "We still have much to do but this poll and other recent ones are evidence of a remarkable increase in support from just over a year ago and signifies the significant progress being made by Labour in Scotland."

    Yet unless Labour again wins most seats in Scotland it is unlikely to be able to win a majority across the whole of the UK even if Corbyn is still able to become PM with SNP support.

    The history of the SNP and Labour Party means that at a National level, relations will be severely distrustful. At a local government level, there is sometimes a marriage of convenience but the treaty documents are very, very detailed In Edinburgh, we saw the rings the SNP ran round a previous LibDem senior coalition led council. At a following council election, the LibDems were decimated, with even the LibDem leader losing her seat. Lessons were learned
    Indeed but on current polls Corbyn will likely need the votes of SNP MPs to become PM so he needs to start thinking about possible arrangements with them now
    You are ignoring the problem that the SNP has, in that too many of the Scottish Westminster seats, Labour only needs a small swing to win them. Similarly, in many others, in the farming and fishing constituencies, traditionally Conservative/LibDems, many of the electorate are unhappy with the SNP.
    If there is a GE soon, then there will probably be a SNP meltdown, which doesn't augur well for the next Holyrood one.
    On current Westminster Scottish polling the SNP will still be largest party, even if Labour picks up a few more SNP seats and the SNP may win back a handful of seats lost to the Tories.

    So Corbyn would still need SNP confidence and supply in all likelihood to become PM. Unless Labour wins most Scottish seats it is unlikely Corbyn will have enough MPs for an overall majority
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Cookie, yeah, it's weird.

    Mr. Eagles, do you pronounce the S in Paris? Or refer to la France?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    Consensus on Sunday Politics seems to be Harriet Harman could succeed Bercow as next Speaker
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,043
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    WOOO just backed David Miliband to be next Lab leader.

    Great bet.

    Obvious potential.

    If David Miliband could not get elected Labour leader in 2010 he is not going to be next Labour leader now after the Momentum infiltration
    Perhaps if Corbyn is here for the next 10 years the party will be looking for a shift by then.
    If Corbyn is here for the next 10 years that means he has likely become PM after the 2022 general election and unless the Tories have a big poll lead ahead of the 2027 general election why would Labour members not pick a Corbynista to succeed him?
    Go back 10 years and the idea of anyone from the left of the party even being given the wifi code let alone the leadership would have been unthinkable. 2027 will be as different to 2018 as 2008 is from today.
    Only if the Tories win a majority in 2022 and Corbynism is clearly defeated.

    After Blair won the Labour leadership in 1994 Blairism held a grip on Labour for at least 13 years. Given Corbyn won the 2015 Labour leadership election if he is equally able to win a general election as Blair was (and he has already got a hung parliament even if he has failed to win outright as yet) then it would be 2028 before Labour would even consider a move to a leader with a different ideological worldview and by which time David Miliband will be long past it.

    David Miliband's best bet would be to win a by election before the next general election and then for the Tories to win an overall majority at that election
    Doubt even that would work. The cult is already preparing its excuses for Corbyn losing: all the fault of hostile, fakenews media.
  • Cookie said:

    Mr. Eagles, do you mean Ivory Coast?

    I'm puzzled by this too. Why have we started referring to the Ivory Coast and East Timor in their own languages, when we still refer to most countries in English. We haven't started talking about Suomi-Finaldn and Sverige and Hrvatska.

    I don't mind, I'm just puzzled about why those two have been singled out.

    And I'm still not sure whether Czechia will ever catch on.

    As a citizen of the world it is all the rage to call countries by their own name.

    Plus French is a beautiful language, up there with Latin.

    Let’s be frank, Le Royaume-Uni sounds a lot nicer and elegant than the United Kingdom.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Borough, he won't live forever. If he loses in 2022 then he may well be too old by the next election. The far left need to rewrite the rulebook to guarantee they get a figure on the shortlist, or to get enough barking mad MPs in place.
  • Mr. Cookie, yeah, it's weird.

    Mr. Eagles, do you pronounce the S in Paris? Or refer to la France?

    When I’m in Paris/France I drop the s.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    edited March 2018

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    WOOO just backed David Miliband to be next Lab leader.

    Great bet.

    Obvious potential.

    If David Miliband could not get elected Labour leader in 2010 he is not going to be next Labour leader now after the Momentum infiltration
    Perhaps if Corbyn is here for the next 10 years the party will be looking for a shift by then.
    If Corbyn is here for the next 10 years that means he has likely become PM after the 2022 general election and unless the Tories have a big poll lead ahead of the 2027 general election why would Labour members not pick a Corbynista to succeed him?
    Go back 10 years and the idea of anyone from the left of the party even being given the wifi code let alone the leadership would have been unthinkable. 2027 will be as different to 2018 as 2008 is from today.
    Only if the Tories win a majority in 2022 and Corbynism is clearly defeated.

    After Blair won the Labour leadership in 1994 Blairism held a grip on Labour for at least 13 years. Given Corbyn won the 2015 Labour leadership election if he is equally able to win a general election as Blair was (and he has already got a hung parliament even if he has failed to win outright as yet) then it would be 2028 before Labour would even consider a move to a leader with a different ideological worldview and by which time David Miliband will be long past it.

    David Miliband's best bet would be to win a by election before the next general election and then for the Tories to win an overall majority at that election
    Doubt even that would work. The cult is already preparing its excuses for Corbyn losing: all the fault of hostile, fakenews media.
    The cult would still vote for a Corbynista of course (though their turnout may be depressed and fewer may bother to vote and renew their membership if Corbyn is beaten) but if the Tories clearly win a majority at the next general election and Corbynism is seen to be defeated it would be easier for the average Labour member to consider a moderate, anything short of a Tory majority next time would certainly ensure Corbynism still holds a grip on Labour for at least another Parliament.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,759
    edited March 2018

    Mr. Cookie, yeah, it's weird.

    Mr. Eagles, do you pronounce the S in Paris? Or refer to la France?

    Surely it is la belle France?

    And to judge by the tweet Mr Eagles put out above, most people would also refer to la belle end Barnier :smiley:
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,043

    WOOO just backed David Miliband to be next Lab leader.

    Great bet.

    Obvious potential.

    Are you living in a time warp?
    HYUFD said:

    WOOO just backed David Miliband to be next Lab leader.

    Great bet.

    Obvious potential.

    If David Miliband could not get elected Labour leader in 2010 he is not going to be next Labour leader now after the Momentum infiltration
    Yeah, it's a time warp where I laid him out as far as my budget would allow at 8/1 (when he wasn't an MP!) and now I'm backing at 35/1 (when he still isn't an MP) because I don't like big red numbers.


    Don't worry, I haven't gone insane...
    Ah, makes sense now. I'm afraid the Prince over the Water, will be over the water for some time to come.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,519

    Dura_Ace said:

    I was of the opinion that Putin's nerve agents on the streets of Salisbury lark was a bit of a storm in a samovar. It's now getting serious and I think even May is going to have to contort her enormous grey face into a mask of faux concern (see also Grenfell) and actually do something.

    We'll know it's serious when they return the money paid by Russian geezers for dinner with Ruth & Gav and tennis with Dave etc.
    Yeah, because only Conservatives have dodgy links with Russia:
    https://www.rt.com/shows/alex-salmond-show/

    ;)
    Positively and lumberingly Pavlovian (& I don't mean the ballet dancer).

    You'll at least be able to distinguish between private citizens and elected members and ministers of the governing party of the UK I hope.
    Nothing Pavlovian about it.

    My point - which of course you will have known and understood - is that there is a big issue with the Russian government and its proxies attempting to gain 'soft' power. If you criticise the government (and rightly so IMO), then you should castigate Salmond for a blatant direct connection.

    Salmond's been criticised for it, on here and elsewhere, since it was announced. He's had fair warning, and hopefully he'll get a little 'embarrassed' about the connection in the next few weeks.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,519
    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I was of the opinion that Putin's nerve agents on the streets of Salisbury lark was a bit of a storm in a samovar. It's now getting serious and I think even May is going to have to contort her enormous grey face into a mask of faux concern (see also Grenfell) and actually do something.

    We'll know it's serious when they return the money paid by Russian geezers for dinner with Ruth & Gav and tennis with Dave etc.
    Yeah, because only Conservatives have dodgy links with Russia:
    https://www.rt.com/shows/alex-salmond-show/

    ;)
    Where’s RT’s studio? We need to shut that down too.
    Millbank Tower, apparently.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT_UK

    A lot of evil's been based in that tower / complex. ;)
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Eagles, you cheese-eating surrender monkey.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,043

    WOOO just backed David Miliband to be next Lab leader.

    Great bet.

    Obvious potential.

    Are you living in a time warp?
    HYUFD said:

    WOOO just backed David Miliband to be next Lab leader.

    Great bet.

    Obvious potential.

    If David Miliband could not get elected Labour leader in 2010 he is not going to be next Labour leader now after the Momentum infiltration
    Yeah, it's a time warp where I laid him out as far as my budget would allow at 8/1 (when he wasn't an MP!) and now I'm backing at 35/1 (when he still isn't an MP) because I don't like big red numbers.


    Don't worry, I haven't gone insane...
    Ah, makes sense now. I'm afraid the Prince over the Water, will be over the water for some time to come.
    On the other hand:

    "When electorates get experience of what the snake oil peddled by the populists really tastes like, social democrats may be given an opportunity to be heard again. They had better be ready with attractive things to say and compelling leaders to articulate them."

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/11/populists-will-be-found-out-moderatess-must-be-ready-social-democracy-defunct
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718
    Apropos of the discussion about prescription charges earlier this morning payments for ingredients etc by the NHS are 3.5% DOWN this year. That’s a per prescription figure and it looks as if numbers arew down too.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I was of the opinion that Putin's nerve agents on the streets of Salisbury lark was a bit of a storm in a samovar. It's now getting serious and I think even May is going to have to contort her enormous grey face into a mask of faux concern (see also Grenfell) and actually do something.

    We'll know it's serious when they return the money paid by Russian geezers for dinner with Ruth & Gav and tennis with Dave etc.
    Yeah, because only Conservatives have dodgy links with Russia:
    https://www.rt.com/shows/alex-salmond-show/

    ;)
    Where’s RT’s studio? We need to shut that down too.
    Millbank Tower, apparently.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT_UK

    A lot of evil's been based in that tower / complex. ;)
    Good, so it is in the UK.

    The only language Russia’s going to understand is to play the game the same way they do (only without the chemical weapons). That means hard and meaningful sanctions, and encouraging other friendly nations to do the same.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,085
    The real scandal would be Bercow - who won his seat as speaker unopposed by the opposition parties - resuming the Tory whip. The proper thing to do, if he resigns or is removed, is to resign and have a by-election,
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,880
    Sandpit said:


    The only language Russia’s going to understand is to play the game the same way they do (only without the chemical weapons). That means hard and meaningful sanctions, and encouraging other friendly nations to do the same.

    Yeah, those Crimea sanctions really brought Putin to heel. His only vulnerability is his vanity and pride so a World Cup boycott would be meaningful and it might keep Gareth Southgate in a job until the group stages of Euro 2020.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789
    Cookie said:

    I don't mind, I'm just puzzled about why those two have been singled out.

    And I'm still not sure whether Czechia will ever catch on.

    If they want a name that will catch on, they should put the Slovak back.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,519
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:


    The only language Russia’s going to understand is to play the game the same way they do (only without the chemical weapons). That means hard and meaningful sanctions, and encouraging other friendly nations to do the same.

    Yeah, those Crimea sanctions really brought Putin to heel. His only vulnerability is his vanity and pride so a World Cup boycott would be meaningful and it might keep Gareth Southgate in a job until the group stages of Euro 2020.
    I'd always assumed that the sanctions are hurting Russia - it'd be good to know how accurate that assumption is, for the state, it's major players personally, and the average citizen.

    But Putin appears to be someone who likes his country to appear big and strong (perhaps more so than it really is). Therefore doing things that make it seem small and ineffectual would be good ways of getting at him.

    Allegedly, Putin does not c ope with embarrassment well.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,049
    O/T...just done my usual hour and a half Sunday thing reading the printed Times before popping out for lunch....fuck me it is utterly depressing today. What it is about the world in 2018? It is that we just know more about the shit that is going on through modern communication, or is it that there is just more shit going on?
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    HYUFD said:

    OchEye said:

    HYUFD said:

    OchEye said:

    HYUFD said:

    calum said:

    A Moonlight poll - " shows the SNP on 34%, Labour on 30% and the Tories on 24% "

    https://www.theredrobin.scot/shock_poll_shows_labour_rapidly_gaining_on_snp

    SNP would still have most MPs on that poll though and Labour would likely still need their support on confidence and supply.

    A rather sycophantic quote attached to that

    Yet unless Labour again wins most seats in Scotland it is unlikely to be able to win a majority across the whole of the UK even if Corbyn is still able to become PM with SNP support.

    The history of the SNP and Labour Party means that at a National level, relations will be severely distrustful. At a local government level, there is sometimes a marriage of convenience but the treaty documents are very, very detailed In Edinburgh, we saw the rings the SNP ran round a previous LibDem senior coalition led council. At a following council election, the LibDems were decimated, with even the LibDem leader losing her seat. Lessons were learned
    Indeed but on current polls Corbyn will likely need the votes of SNP MPs to become PM so he needs to start thinking about possible arrangements with them now
    You are ignoring the problem that the SNP has, in that too many of the Scottish Westminster seats, Labour only needs a small swing to win them. Similarly, in many others, in the farming and fishing constituencies, traditionally Conservative/LibDems, many of the electorate are unhappy with the SNP.
    If there is a GE soon, then there will probably be a SNP meltdown, which doesn't augur well for the next Holyrood one.
    On current Westminster Scottish polling the SNP will still be largest party, even if Labour picks up a few more SNP seats and the SNP may win back a handful of seats lost to the Tories.

    So Corbyn would still need SNP confidence and supply in all likelihood to become PM. Unless Labour wins most Scottish seats it is unlikely Corbyn will have enough MPs for an overall majority
    Sturgeon has 2 big problems, firstly she has to keep her hard core support behind her by keeping open the promise of another iRef2. The second, the majority of the Scottish electorate don't want another iRef2. That not only includes Labour, LibDems and Tories, but also a large number of SNP voters. Reason, we are now only coming back together after the 2014 referendum, the splits in family, long term friendships and between work and business colleagues are being overlooked but not forgotten.
    Sturgeon is in danger of losing credibility from both sides, and support as she tries to balance them
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:


    The only language Russia’s going to understand is to play the game the same way they do (only without the chemical weapons). That means hard and meaningful sanctions, and encouraging other friendly nations to do the same.

    Yeah, those Crimea sanctions really brought Putin to heel. His only vulnerability is his vanity and pride so a World Cup boycott would be meaningful and it might keep Gareth Southgate in a job until the group stages of Euro 2020.
    If Germany, Argentina and Brazil pulled out it might worry Putin - but not England or Australia.

    And any nation that withdraws will also be banned from competing in Qatar 2022. We don't seem too stressed about Qatar's human rights record - so it might be more moral to boycott both.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,880



    But Putin appears to be someone who likes his country to appear big and strong (perhaps more so than it really is). Therefore doing things that make it seem small and ineffectual would be good ways of getting at him.

    It is having an effect on the economy but Putin has manipulated the adverse economic consequences to stimulate those reliable pleasure centres of nationalism and paranoia. Just like Brexit.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,759
    IanB2 said:

    The real scandal would be Bercow - who won his seat as speaker unopposed by the opposition parties - resuming the Tory whip. The proper thing to do, if he resigns or is removed, is to resign and have a by-election,

    I agree. But I can't imagine May would actually let him resume the Tory whip. Leaving aside her obvious personal dislike of him, I think it would be quite out of character for her, whatever her other faults.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674
    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    OchEye said:

    malcolmg said:

    OchEye said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    calum said:

    A Moonlight poll - " shows the SNP on 34%, Labour on 30% and the Tories on 24% "

    https://www.theredrobin.scot/shock_poll_shows_labour_rapidly_gaining_on_snp

    Reverting to form, the Scots? Well, SCON reached some dizzying heights (for them in recent decades) and can be proud if that.
    LOL, Labour poll by Labour dummies, deluded half wits.
    Well I did put it as a question mark. If Labour are not rapidly gaining on the SNP then presumably the Tories are still either maintaining parity with SLAB or exceeding them, or the SNP are reestablishing an even bigger lead.
    Problem for the SNP is the weakness of the Independence argument. Now that the mess of Brexit is becoming painfully obvious, Independence is less likely except to the hard core minority. Sturgeon and Murrell recognise this, and they

    Davidson and Leonard will be attempting to peel away the SNP support, and it is beginning to look quite easy to do.
    Hello Neil, how are book sales of your tripe going , any Hope left
    Please make your mind up, you've told me that I'm Ruthie and and now Neil! By the way, which Neil am I supposed to be?
    Shows how much you know of Scottish politics , the deluded halfwit who has just published a book, Findlay. I understand now that you may just be a gormless fool rather than a labour stooge.

    PS: what part of south east England do you live in
    PPS: This halfwit
    Citing some recent poll numbers, Neil Findlay tells the Tories at Westminster and the SNP at Holyrood - “we’re breathing down your neck, and we’re coming for you”
    Very , much as I dislike the Tories I would have them before the current bunch of absolute losers that are Labour at Westminster. Hard to say at Holyrood, as someone with at least two brain cells functioning it is hard to believe that people vote for the dross that is Labour's regional puppet party and the turnips that are Tory MSP's are of the same calibre.
    Maybe Malc but you better get used to working with Labour as there is a significant possibility Nats will be doing a lot of it at both Westminster and Holyrood after the next elections
    I am only interested that SNP look after Scotland's interests and strive for independence, if they are just toadying up to the Westminster parties for powers sake they will be gone in no time.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674
    brendan16 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:


    The only language Russia’s going to understand is to play the game the same way they do (only without the chemical weapons). That means hard and meaningful sanctions, and encouraging other friendly nations to do the same.

    Yeah, those Crimea sanctions really brought Putin to heel. His only vulnerability is his vanity and pride so a World Cup boycott would be meaningful and it might keep Gareth Southgate in a job until the group stages of Euro 2020.
    If Germany, Argentina and Brazil pulled out it might worry Putin - but not England or Australia.

    And any nation that withdraws will also be banned from competing in Qatar 2022. We don't seem too stressed about Qatar's human rights record - so it might be more moral to boycott both.
    good reason for pulling out on its own.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674
    OchEye said:

    HYUFD said:

    OchEye said:

    HYUFD said:

    OchEye said:

    HYUFD said:

    calum said:

    A Moonlight poll - " shows the SNP on 34%, Labour on 30% and the Tories on 24% "

    https://www.theredrobin.scot/shock_poll_shows_labour_rapidly_gaining_on_snp

    SNP would still have most MPs on that poll though and Labour would likely still need their support on confidence and supply.

    A rather sycophantic quote attached to that

    Yet unless Labour again wins most seats in Scotland it is unlikely to be able to win a majority across the whole of the UK even if Corbyn is still able to become PM with SNP support.

    The history of the SNP and Labour Party means that at a National level, relations will be severely distrustful. At a local government level, there is sometimes a marriage of convenience but the treaty documents are very, very detailed In Edinburgh, we saw the rings the SNP ran round a previous LibDem senior coalition led council. At a following council election, the LibDems were decimated, with even the LibDem leader losing her seat. Lessons were learned
    Indeed but on current polls Corbyn will likely need the votes of SNP MPs to become PM so he needs to start thinking about possible arrangements with them now
    You are ignoring the problem that the SNP has, in that too many of the Scottish Westminster seats, Labour only needs a small swing to win them. Similarly, in many others, in the farming and fishing constituencies, traditionally Conservative/LibDems, many of the electorate are unhappy with the SNP.
    If there is a GE soon, then there will probably be a SNP meltdown, which doesn't augur well for the next Holyrood one.
    Sturgeon has 2 big problems, firstly she has to keep her hard core support behind her by keeping open the promise of another iRef2. The second, the majority of the Scottish electorate don't want another iRef2. That not only includes Labour, LibDems and Tories, but also a large number of SNP voters. Reason, we are now only coming back together after the 2014 referendum, the splits in family, long term friendships and between work and business colleagues are being overlooked but not forgotten.
    Sturgeon is in danger of losing credibility from both sides, and support as she tries to balance them
    only a few percent more don't want another referendum , high 40%'s still want independence. Spouting fake Labour mince will not do it I am afraid.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,535

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:


    The only language Russia’s going to understand is to play the game the same way they do (only without the chemical weapons). That means hard and meaningful sanctions, and encouraging other friendly nations to do the same.

    Yeah, those Crimea sanctions really brought Putin to heel. His only vulnerability is his vanity and pride so a World Cup boycott would be meaningful and it might keep Gareth Southgate in a job until the group stages of Euro 2020.
    I'd always assumed that the sanctions are hurting Russia - it'd be good to know how accurate that assumption is, for the state, it's major players personally, and the average citizen.

    But Putin appears to be someone who likes his country to appear big and strong (perhaps more so than it really is). Therefore doing things that make it seem small and ineffectual would be good ways of getting at him.

    Allegedly, Putin does not c ope with embarrassment well.
    The Magnitsky Act in the US seems to have had some effect given the lengths the Kremlin has gone to to have it abolished or watered down. We should do the same thing here.

    If you are Russian and there's even a hint of links to the Russian government or criminal activity you and your money should not be welcome in the UK. If that means kicking out the oligarchs and their hangers-on so be it.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789
    I doubt Andrew Neil will be retweeting this poll.
    https://twitter.com/Wahlrecht_de/status/972817265660973058
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674

    Dura_Ace said:

    I was of the opinion that Putin's nerve agents on the streets of Salisbury lark was a bit of a storm in a samovar. It's now getting serious and I think even May is going to have to contort her enormous grey face into a mask of faux concern (see also Grenfell) and actually do something.

    We'll know it's serious when they return the money paid by Russian geezers for dinner with Ruth & Gav and tennis with Dave etc.
    Yeah, because only Conservatives have dodgy links with Russia:
    https://www.rt.com/shows/alex-salmond-show/

    ;)
    Positively and lumberingly Pavlovian (& I don't mean the ballet dancer).

    You'll at least be able to distinguish between private citizens and elected members and ministers of the governing party of the UK I hope.
    Nothing Pavlovian about it.

    My point - which of course you will have known and understood - is that there is a big issue with the Russian government and its proxies attempting to gain 'soft' power. If you criticise the government (and rightly so IMO), then you should castigate Salmond for a blatant direct connection.

    Salmond's been criticised for it, on here and elsewhere, since it was announced. He's had fair warning, and hopefully he'll get a little 'embarrassed' about the connection in the next few weeks.
    Is that unlike UK government and their "soft power" then, with their links to tinpot dictators, regime changing some but toadying to others etc. Only difference is they are weak balloons , Putin is at least tough enough to back up his skullduggery.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,519
    malcolmg said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I was of the opinion that Putin's nerve agents on the streets of Salisbury lark was a bit of a storm in a samovar. It's now getting serious and I think even May is going to have to contort her enormous grey face into a mask of faux concern (see also Grenfell) and actually do something.

    We'll know it's serious when they return the money paid by Russian geezers for dinner with Ruth & Gav and tennis with Dave etc.
    Yeah, because only Conservatives have dodgy links with Russia:
    https://www.rt.com/shows/alex-salmond-show/

    ;)
    Positively and lumberingly Pavlovian (& I don't mean the ballet dancer).

    You'll at least be able to distinguish between private citizens and elected members and ministers of the governing party of the UK I hope.
    Nothing Pavlovian about it.

    My point - which of course you will have known and understood - is that there is a big issue with the Russian government and its proxies attempting to gain 'soft' power. If you criticise the government (and rightly so IMO), then you should castigate Salmond for a blatant direct connection.

    Salmond's been criticised for it, on here and elsewhere, since it was announced. He's had fair warning, and hopefully he'll get a little 'embarrassed' about the connection in the next few weeks.
    Is that unlike UK government and their "soft power" then, with their links to tinpot dictators, regime changing some but toadying to others etc. Only difference is they are weak balloons , Putin is at least tough enough to back up his skullduggery.
    Your admiration for Putin is duly noted, Eliza. ;)
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    brendan16 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:


    The only language Russia’s going to understand is to play the game the same way they do (only without the chemical weapons). That means hard and meaningful sanctions, and encouraging other friendly nations to do the same.

    Yeah, those Crimea sanctions really brought Putin to heel. His only vulnerability is his vanity and pride so a World Cup boycott would be meaningful and it might keep Gareth Southgate in a job until the group stages of Euro 2020.
    If Germany, Argentina and Brazil pulled out it might worry Putin - but not England or Australia.

    And any nation that withdraws will also be banned from competing in Qatar 2022. We don't seem too stressed about Qatar's human rights record - so it might be more moral to boycott both.
    Oooo! Please! Too many non Engerlish from the other nations of the UK are still being reminded on a regular, basis of a certain game in 1966 where a Russian referee and 100,000 said that a ball had crossed a line. Mind that was in the days when a rouble was worth a rouble...
  • OchEye said:

    brendan16 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:


    The only language Russia’s going to understand is to play the game the same way they do (only without the chemical weapons). That means hard and meaningful sanctions, and encouraging other friendly nations to do the same.

    Yeah, those Crimea sanctions really brought Putin to heel. His only vulnerability is his vanity and pride so a World Cup boycott would be meaningful and it might keep Gareth Southgate in a job until the group stages of Euro 2020.
    If Germany, Argentina and Brazil pulled out it might worry Putin - but not England or Australia.

    And any nation that withdraws will also be banned from competing in Qatar 2022. We don't seem too stressed about Qatar's human rights record - so it might be more moral to boycott both.
    Oooo! Please! Too many non Engerlish from the other nations of the UK are still being reminded on a regular, basis of a certain game in 1966 where a Russian referee and 100,000 said that a ball had crossed a line. Mind that was in the days when a rouble was worth a rouble...
    The final in 1966 world cup final was Swiss.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969
    edited March 2018
    Douglas Ross MP really does like a quiet life doesn't he?

    I feel sorry for the person in charge of his social media and email accounts.
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469

    OchEye said:

    brendan16 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:


    The only language Russia’s going to understand is to play the game the same way they do (only without the chemical weapons). That means hard and meaningful sanctions, and encouraging other friendly nations to do the same.

    Yeah, those Crimea sanctions really brought Putin to heel. His only vulnerability is his vanity and pride so a World Cup boycott would be meaningful and it might keep Gareth Southgate in a job until the group stages of Euro 2020.
    If Germany, Argentina and Brazil pulled out it might worry Putin - but not England or Australia.

    And any nation that withdraws will also be banned from competing in Qatar 2022. We don't seem too stressed about Qatar's human rights record - so it might be more moral to boycott both.
    Oooo! Please! Too many non Engerlish from the other nations of the UK are still being reminded on a regular, basis of a certain game in 1966 where a Russian referee and 100,000 said that a ball had crossed a line. Mind that was in the days when a rouble was worth a rouble...
    The final in 1966 world cup final was Swiss.
    Even spoil a joke....
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    IanB2 said:

    The real scandal would be Bercow - who won his seat as speaker unopposed by the opposition parties - resuming the Tory whip. The proper thing to do, if he resigns or is removed, is to resign and have a by-election,

    Or be elevated and have a by-election, as is generally the case.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    glw said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:


    The only language Russia’s going to understand is to play the game the same way they do (only without the chemical weapons). That means hard and meaningful sanctions, and encouraging other friendly nations to do the same.

    Yeah, those Crimea sanctions really brought Putin to heel. His only vulnerability is his vanity and pride so a World Cup boycott would be meaningful and it might keep Gareth Southgate in a job until the group stages of Euro 2020.
    I'd always assumed that the sanctions are hurting Russia - it'd be good to know how accurate that assumption is, for the state, it's major players personally, and the average citizen.

    But Putin appears to be someone who likes his country to appear big and strong (perhaps more so than it really is). Therefore doing things that make it seem small and ineffectual would be good ways of getting at him.

    Allegedly, Putin does not c ope with embarrassment well.
    The Magnitsky Act in the US seems to have had some effect given the lengths the Kremlin has gone to to have it abolished or watered down. We should do the same thing here.

    If you are Russian and there's even a hint of links to the Russian government or criminal activity you and your money should not be welcome in the UK. If that means kicking out the oligarchs and their hangers-on so be it.
    Yep, we need to specifically target the rich Russians and get them out of London, freeze bank accounts, cancel direct flights, shut down RT and encourage other friendly countries to do the same.

    A sporting boycott would be difficult to organise, but worth every penny of effort put into it. Half the teams missing from the World Cup would also have the delightful secondary impact of giving FIFA a bloody nose for their decision to go to Russia (and Qatar) in the first place.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Cookie said:

    Mr. Eagles, do you mean Ivory Coast?

    I'm puzzled by this too. Why have we started referring to the Ivory Coast and East Timor in their own languages, when we still refer to most countries in English. We haven't started talking about Suomi-Finaldn and Sverige and Hrvatska.

    I don't mind, I'm just puzzled about why those two have been singled out.

    And I'm still not sure whether Czechia will ever catch on.

    I guess if a country really insists upon it, for official purposes, then its courteous to do so, but as you point there's the majority where not only do we not, but others do not either. It's the norm.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,749

    Douglas Ross MP really does like a quiet life doesn't he?

    I feel sorry for the person in charge of his social media and email accounts.

    Murdo 'Queen's 11' Fraser will be giving his party colleague a hearty shake of the hand (Masonic or otherwise) on their next meeting.
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The real scandal would be Bercow - who won his seat as speaker unopposed by the opposition parties - resuming the Tory whip. The proper thing to do, if he resigns or is removed, is to resign and have a by-election,

    Or be elevated and have a by-election, as is generally the case.
    Wow! A potential David Miliband come back already?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674

    malcolmg said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I was of the opinion that Putin's nerve agents on the streets of Salisbury lark was a bit of a storm in a samovar. It's now getting serious and I think even May is going to have to contort her enormous grey face into a mask of faux concern (see also Grenfell) and actually do something.

    We'll know it's serious when they return the money paid by Russian geezers for dinner with Ruth & Gav and tennis with Dave etc.
    Yeah, because only Conservatives have dodgy links with Russia:
    https://www.rt.com/shows/alex-salmond-show/

    ;)
    Positively and lumberingly Pavlovian (& I don't mean the ballet dancer).

    You'll at least be able to distinguish between private citizens and elected members and ministers of the governing party of the UK I hope.
    Nothing Pavlovian about it.

    My point - which of course you will have known and understood - is that there is a big issue with the Russian government and its proxies attempting to gain 'soft' power. If you criticise the government (and rightly so IMO), then you should castigate Salmond for a blatant direct connection.

    Salmond's been criticised for it, on here and elsewhere, since it was announced. He's had fair warning, and hopefully he'll get a little 'embarrassed' about the connection in the next few weeks.
    Is that unlike UK government and their "soft power" then, with their links to tinpot dictators, regime changing some but toadying to others etc. Only difference is they are weak balloons , Putin is at least tough enough to back up his skullduggery.
    Your admiration for Putin is duly noted, Eliza. ;)
    It is the fantasies on here re UK and the guff spouted constantly about how powerful they are when in fact they could not push their way out of a wet paper poke. Fannies the lot of them and reaping what they sow for their pathetic weakness.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969
    edited March 2018

    Douglas Ross MP really does like a quiet life doesn't he?

    I feel sorry for the person in charge of his social media and email accounts.

    Murdo 'Queen's 11' Fraser will be giving his party colleague a hearty shake of the hand (Masonic or otherwise) on their next meeting.
    He was repeatedly shouting 'Red card' that was just so weird, he looked like me whenever anyone plays Liverpool and commits a tackle against a Liverpool player.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674

    Douglas Ross MP really does like a quiet life doesn't he?

    I feel sorry for the person in charge of his social media and email accounts.

    Murdo 'Queen's 11' Fraser will be giving his party colleague a hearty shake of the hand (Masonic or otherwise) on their next meeting.
    Divvie to be fair it was an elbow in the face, think they called it right
  • glwglw Posts: 9,535
    edited March 2018

    Douglas Ross MP really does like a quiet life doesn't he?

    I feel sorry for the person in charge of his social media and email accounts.

    I must say I'm enjoying the "civic nationalism" exhibited on Twitter by the Nats.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I was of the opinion that Putin's nerve agents on the streets of Salisbury lark was a bit of a storm in a samovar. It's now getting serious and I think even May is going to have to contort her enormous grey face into a mask of faux concern (see also Grenfell) and actually do something.

    We'll know it's serious when they return the money paid by Russian geezers for dinner with Ruth & Gav and tennis with Dave etc.
    Yeah, because only Conservatives have dodgy links with Russia:
    https://www.rt.com/shows/alex-salmond-show/

    ;)
    Positively and lumberingly Pavlovian (& I don't mean the ballet dancer).

    You'll at least be able to distinguish between private citizens and elected members and ministers of the governing party of the UK I hope.
    Nothing Pavlovian about it.

    My point - which of course you will have known and understood - is that there is a big issue with the Russian government and its proxies attempting to gain 'soft' power. If you criticise the government (and rightly so IMO), then you should castigate Salmond for a blatant direct connection.

    Salmond's been criticised for it, on here and elsewhere, since it was announced. He's had fair warning, and hopefully he'll get a little 'embarrassed' about the connection in the next few weeks.
    Is that unlike UK government and their "soft power" then, with their links to tinpot dictators, regime changing some but toadying to others etc. Only difference is they are weak balloons , Putin is at least tough enough to back up his skullduggery.
    Your admiration for Putin is duly noted, Eliza. ;)
    It is the fantasies on here re UK and the guff spouted constantly about how powerful they are when in fact they could not push their way out of a wet paper poke. Fannies the lot of them and reaping what they sow for their pathetic weakness.
    I don't see very much guff spouted about how powerful the UK is. What I do see a lot, from me, is refutation of the idea that because we are not a superpower that we are powerless.
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038
    glw said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:


    The only language Russia’s going to understand is to play the game the same way they do (only without the chemical weapons). That means hard and meaningful sanctions, and encouraging other friendly nations to do the same.

    Yeah, those Crimea sanctions really brought Putin to heel. His only vulnerability is his vanity and pride so a World Cup boycott would be meaningful and it might keep Gareth Southgate in a job until the group stages of Euro 2020.
    I'd always assumed that the sanctions are hurting Russia - it'd be good to know how accurate that assumption is, for the state, it's major players personally, and the average citizen.

    But Putin appears to be someone who likes his country to appear big and strong (perhaps more so than it really is). Therefore doing things that make it seem small and ineffectual would be good ways of getting at him.

    Allegedly, Putin does not c ope with embarrassment well.
    The Magnitsky Act in the US seems to have had some effect given the lengths the Kremlin has gone to to have it abolished or watered down. We should do the same thing here.

    If you are Russian and there's even a hint of links to the Russian government or criminal activity you and your money should not be welcome in the UK. If that means kicking out the oligarchs and their hangers-on so be it.
    Many UK deaths are labelled 'suicide' yet US intelligence agencies consider them 'suspicious'

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/03/06/the-long-terrifying-history-of-russian-dissidents-being-poisoned-abroad/?utm_term=.0acde6b7c089

    How about a return to containment and relative non-interference in each other's internal affairs? Don't forget, this happened at the height of the Cold War, plus a reciprocal visit by Wilson to Moscow

    http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1967/feb/13/mr-kosygin-visit

    However, as they're needlessly inflating our property market, I think the oligarchs/tax exiles should be given notice to quit. Greater transparency over who owns central London property could achieve an exit pretty painlessly.
  • OchEye said:

    brendan16 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:


    The only language Russia’s going to understand is to play the game the same way they do (only without the chemical weapons). That means hard and meaningful sanctions, and encouraging other friendly nations to do the same.

    Yeah, those Crimea sanctions really brought Putin to heel. His only vulnerability is his vanity and pride so a World Cup boycott would be meaningful and it might keep Gareth Southgate in a job until the group stages of Euro 2020.
    If Germany, Argentina and Brazil pulled out it might worry Putin - but not England or Australia.

    And any nation that withdraws will also be banned from competing in Qatar 2022. We don't seem too stressed about Qatar's human rights record - so it might be more moral to boycott both.
    Oooo! Please! Too many non Engerlish from the other nations of the UK are still being reminded on a regular, basis of a certain game in 1966 where a Russian referee and 100,000 said that a ball had crossed a line. Mind that was in the days when a rouble was worth a rouble...
    And some people think that disallowing one goal from a 4-2 game changes the result.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,749

    Douglas Ross MP really does like a quiet life doesn't he?

    I feel sorry for the person in charge of his social media and email accounts.

    Murdo 'Queen's 11' Fraser will be giving his party colleague a hearty shake of the hand (Masonic or otherwise) on their next meeting.
    He was repeatedly shouting 'Red card' that was just so weird, he looked like me whenever anyone plays Liverpool and commits a tackle against a Liverpool player.
    The boy Edouard done well, to use the parlance.
  • HistorianHistorian Posts: 23
    HYUFD said:

    Consensus on Sunday Politics seems to be Harriet Harman could succeed Bercow as next Speaker

    How could she? She is a former party leader. No former party leader has ever become Speaker because he/she would be associated with a party when the Speaker is supposed to be impartial?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674
    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I was of the opinion that Putin's nerve agents on the streets of Salisbury lark was a bit of a storm in a samovar. It's now getting serious and I think even May is going to have to contort her enormous grey face into a mask of faux concern (see also Grenfell) and actually do something.

    We'll know it's serious when they return the money paid by Russian geezers for dinner with Ruth & Gav and tennis with Dave etc.
    Yeah, because only Conservatives have dodgy links with Russia:
    https://www.rt.com/shows/alex-salmond-show/

    ;)
    Positively and lumberingly Pavlovian (& I don't mean the ballet dancer).

    You'll at least be able to distinguish between private citizens and elected members and ministers of the governing party of the UK I hope.
    Nothing Pavlovian about it.

    My point - which of course you will have known and understood - is that there is a big issue with the Russian government and its proxies attempting to gain 'soft' power. If you criticise the government (and rightly so IMO), then you should castigate Salmond for a blatant direct connection.

    Salmond's been criticised for it, on here and elsewhere, since it was announced. He's had fair warning, and hopefully he'll get a little 'embarrassed' about the connection in the next few weeks.
    Is that unlike UK government and their "soft power" then, with their links to tinpot dictators, regime changing some but toadying to others etc. Only difference is they are weak balloons , Putin is at least tough enough to back up his skullduggery.
    Your admiration for Putin is duly noted, Eliza. ;)
    It is the fantasies on here re UK and the guff spouted constantly about how powerful they are when in fact they could not push their way out of a wet paper poke. Fannies the lot of them and reaping what they sow for their pathetic weakness.
    I don't see very much guff spouted about how powerful the UK is. What I do see a lot, from me, is refutation of the idea that because we are not a superpower that we are powerless.
    There are a good few fantasists on here, even if there are also some realists like yourself.
  • glw said:

    Douglas Ross MP really does like a quiet life doesn't he?

    I feel sorry for the person in charge of his social media and email accounts.

    I must say I'm enjoying the "civic nationalism" exhibited on Twitter by the Nats.
    To be fair Rangers v Celtic really isn't a microcosm for Scottish Independence, it has brought out the worst in Scots for decades, if not centuries.

    As my Scottish boss keeps on telling me not so long ago a successful Old Firm Derby was when the police didn't have to launch a murder enquiry.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674
    Sandpit said:

    glw said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:


    The only language Russia’s going to understand is to play the game the same way they do (only without the chemical weapons). That means hard and meaningful sanctions, and encouraging other friendly nations to do the same.

    Yeah, those Crimea sanctions really brought Putin to heel. His only vulnerability is his vanity and pride so a World Cup boycott would be meaningful and it might keep Gareth Southgate in a job until the group stages of Euro 2020.
    I'd always assumed that the sanctions are hurting Russia - it'd be good to know how accurate that assumption is, for the state, it's major players personally, and the average citizen.

    But Putin appears to be someone who likes his country to appear big and strong (perhaps more so than it really is). Therefore doing things that make it seem small and ineffectual would be good ways of getting at him.

    Allegedly, Putin does not c ope with embarrassment well.
    The Magnitsky Act in the US seems to have had some effect given the lengths the Kremlin has gone to to have it abolished or watered down. We should do the same thing here.

    If you are Russian and there's even a hint of links to the Russian government or criminal activity you and your money should not be welcome in the UK. If that means kicking out the oligarchs and their hangers-on so be it.
    Yep, we need to specifically target the rich Russians and get them out of London, freeze bank accounts, cancel direct flights, shut down RT and encourage other friendly countries to do the same.

    A sporting boycott would be difficult to organise, but worth every penny of effort put into it. Half the teams missing from the World Cup would also have the delightful secondary impact of giving FIFA a bloody nose for their decision to go to Russia (and Qatar) in the first place.
    Yes , but reality is the Tories will keep sucking up and taking their money
  • Douglas Ross MP really does like a quiet life doesn't he?

    I feel sorry for the person in charge of his social media and email accounts.

    Murdo 'Queen's 11' Fraser will be giving his party colleague a hearty shake of the hand (Masonic or otherwise) on their next meeting.
    He was repeatedly shouting 'Red card' that was just so weird, he looked like me whenever anyone plays Liverpool and commits a tackle against a Liverpool player.
    The boy Edouard done well, to use the parlance.
    All the goals in this match have been corkers.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    edited March 2018
    Historian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Consensus on Sunday Politics seems to be Harriet Harman could succeed Bercow as next Speaker

    How could she? She is a former party leader. No former party leader has ever become Speaker because he/she would be associated with a party when the Speaker is supposed to be impartial?
    Without looking up lists of previous speakers I would guess such an appointment would be a break from convention, but of course constitutional conventions evolve over time. That said, someone who was so senior and thus so obviously partisan would suggest to me the convention it not be such a person should be maintained. Sadly it would rule out such a person like Ken Clarke given all his years as a top minister, who I think would be hilarious to see as Speaker.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,749
    edited March 2018
    glw said:

    Douglas Ross MP really does like a quiet life doesn't he?

    I feel sorry for the person in charge of his social media and email accounts.

    I must say I'm enjoying the "civic nationalism" exhibited on Twitter by the Nats.
    This sort of thing you mean?

    https://twitter.com/BrexitBilly1872/status/972819179698032641

    https://twitter.com/DioUFF_/status/972815399556444160

    https://twitter.com/DioUFF_/status/972735609533067264

    Rumours that at least one of these chaps is on a candidate shortlist for the SCons are yet to be confirmed.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674

    Douglas Ross MP really does like a quiet life doesn't he?

    I feel sorry for the person in charge of his social media and email accounts.

    Murdo 'Queen's 11' Fraser will be giving his party colleague a hearty shake of the hand (Masonic or otherwise) on their next meeting.
    He was repeatedly shouting 'Red card' that was just so weird, he looked like me whenever anyone plays Liverpool and commits a tackle against a Liverpool player.
    The boy Edouard done well, to use the parlance.
    All the goals in this match have been corkers.
    Has been a great game so far, my live stream just conked out as well
  • Historian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Consensus on Sunday Politics seems to be Harriet Harman could succeed Bercow as next Speaker

    How could she? She is a former party leader. No former party leader has ever become Speaker because he/she would be associated with a party when the Speaker is supposed to be impartial?
    She was never the proper elected leader, more of a caretaker.

    If she becomes Speaker she'd be more like Selwyn Lloyd who was a former Chancellor and Foreign Secretary before he became Speaker.

    She'd be following in the footsteps of Harry Hylton-Foster who like Harman was a former Sol-Gen.
This discussion has been closed.