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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Now the US orders sanctions against Russia for interference WH

SystemSystem Posts: 6,199
edited March 15 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Now the US orders sanctions against Russia for interference WH2016

LATEST: Trump administration sanctions Russian "cyber actors" for interference in the 2016 U.S. election. https://t.co/EaiFZIbjgP

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Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 66,840
    edited March 15
    But the House Intelligence Committee said there was no interference
  • Poor Vlad.

    Even Trump’s turning against him, how long before Seumas and Jez follow suit?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 45,077

    But the House Intelligence Committee said their was no interference

    But was they're ?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 18,108
    "their was"? tut tut.... too keen to be first to worry about spelling. Bad show....
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,594
    Good on Trump, proving he isn’t a complete Russian stooge in standing up for the UK.
  • Pulpstar said:

    But the House Intelligence Committee said their was no interference

    But was they're ?
    Sodding auto correct.

    Tempted to move to Samsung/Android now.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 20,819
    edited March 15
    I can't help thinking voter suppression is getting out of hand if that is what you need to wear to be allowed to vote.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 20,819

    Poor Vlad.

    Even Trump’s turning against him, how long before Seumas and Jez follow suit?

    Oh I think it might be a while.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 18,108
    DavidL said:

    I can't help thinking voter suppression is getting out of hand if that is what you need to wear to be allowed to vote.

    With Trump in the White House, the atmosphere in Washington DC is getting toxic.....
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 18,108

    Poor Vlad.

    Even Trump’s turning against him, how long before Seumas and Jez follow suit?

    The weekend polls?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 20,819
    I was just thinking that we may be heading towards global thermonuclear war but at least we are spending less time on Brexit and you go and spoil it.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 43,720
    It's the international water cooler's hottest topic:
    "So, what are you putting sanctions against Russia for?"

    "Me? Oh, they're trying to bugger our elections and electricity grid."
    "They decided to use chemical weapons in Europe."
    "They were implicated in shooting down a passenger plane."
    "I'm concerned by the cruel Tory cuts to the diplomatic service, which is yet another sign of-"
    "Sod off, Jeremy."
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 14,178

    Poor Vlad.

    Even Trump’s turning against him, how long before Seumas and Jez follow suit?

    Well, perhaps. Trump himself has remained curiously quiet on all the Russian issues of the day, bar that impromptu press briefing under the helicopter.

    The change in tone / policy from the White House is notable. Has someone locked him in the toilet?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 19,910
    DavidL said:

    I was just thinking that we may be heading towards global thermonuclear war but at least we are spending less time on Brexit and you go and spoil it.

    I didn't mention Brexit! Trump is obviously looking for ideas for a Smart Border 2.0 with Mexico.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,594
    edited March 15
    Christine Lagarde not a fan of a trade war, in the most unsurprising news of the day...
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/03/15/trade-war-risks-de-railing-world-economy-imf-warns/
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 14,178
    DavidL said:

    I was just thinking that we may be heading towards global thermonuclear war but at least we are spending less time on Brexit and you go and spoil it.
    Even global thermonuclear war wouldn't make the Irish border problem go away.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 20,819

    DavidL said:

    I was just thinking that we may be heading towards global thermonuclear war but at least we are spending less time on Brexit and you go and spoil it.

    I didn't mention Brexit! Trump is obviously looking for ideas for a Smart Border 2.0 with Mexico.
    Hmm...I remain suspicious. Do you think he is going to argue that he has built a wall as promised, its just a virtual one?
  • Poor Vlad.

    Even Trump’s turning against him, how long before Seumas and Jez follow suit?

    Well, perhaps. Trump himself has remained curiously quiet on all the Russian issues of the day, bar that impromptu press briefing under the helicopter.

    The change in tone / policy from the White House is notable. Has someone locked him in the toilet?
    There was a story a while back that if there was a major military/diplomatic moment, Mattis, Kelly, and McMaster would all quit as well many other staffers if Trump wouldn’t let them do the right thing.

    I think they may have implemented their plan.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,594

    DavidL said:

    I was just thinking that we may be heading towards global thermonuclear war but at least we are spending less time on Brexit and you go and spoil it.

    I didn't mention Brexit! Trump is obviously looking for ideas for a Smart Border 2.0 with Mexico.
    Smart Border 2.0 already works very well along the world’s longest land border between the US and Canada. ;)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,594

    Poor Vlad.

    Even Trump’s turning against him, how long before Seumas and Jez follow suit?

    Well, perhaps. Trump himself has remained curiously quiet on all the Russian issues of the day, bar that impromptu press briefing under the helicopter.

    The change in tone / policy from the White House is notable. Has someone locked him in the toilet?
    There was a story a while back that if there was a major military/diplomatic moment, Mattis, Kelly, and McMaster would all quit as well many other staffers if Trump wouldn’t let them do the right thing.

    I think they may have implemented their plan.
    Yup, it certainly looks like the three of them went into the Oval Office together in the past few days - and told Trump in no uncertain terms that it’s now their way or the highway
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 20,819

    DavidL said:

    I was just thinking that we may be heading towards global thermonuclear war but at least we are spending less time on Brexit and you go and spoil it.
    Even global thermonuclear war wouldn't make the Irish border problem go away.
    I think that's...debateable. But probably not optimal.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 20,819
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 45,077
    Sandpit said:

    Poor Vlad.

    Even Trump’s turning against him, how long before Seumas and Jez follow suit?

    Well, perhaps. Trump himself has remained curiously quiet on all the Russian issues of the day, bar that impromptu press briefing under the helicopter.

    The change in tone / policy from the White House is notable. Has someone locked him in the toilet?
    There was a story a while back that if there was a major military/diplomatic moment, Mattis, Kelly, and McMaster would all quit as well many other staffers if Trump wouldn’t let them do the right thing.

    I think they may have implemented their plan.
    Yup, it certainly looks like the three of them went into the Oval Office together in the past few days - and told Trump in no uncertain terms that it’s now their way or the highway
    What about that Pompeii chap. When will he blow his top ?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 20,148
    Oh those Russians...

    It would be good to have some concrete evidence of the latest claims about Russia's cyber-espionage. It would be all too easy to descend into hysteria.

    Yesterday someone suggested to me - without any explanation - that Russia is manipulating Bitcoin prices. I mentally gave them a full 10/10 for conspiracy theorising.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 20,819
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Poor Vlad.

    Even Trump’s turning against him, how long before Seumas and Jez follow suit?

    Well, perhaps. Trump himself has remained curiously quiet on all the Russian issues of the day, bar that impromptu press briefing under the helicopter.

    The change in tone / policy from the White House is notable. Has someone locked him in the toilet?
    There was a story a while back that if there was a major military/diplomatic moment, Mattis, Kelly, and McMaster would all quit as well many other staffers if Trump wouldn’t let them do the right thing.

    I think they may have implemented their plan.
    Yup, it certainly looks like the three of them went into the Oval Office together in the past few days - and told Trump in no uncertain terms that it’s now their way or the highway
    What about that Pompeii chap. When will he blow his top ?
    Even in the Trump administration you really need to be appointed before you can threaten to resign.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 15,212
    edited March 15

    Pulpstar said:

    But the House Intelligence Committee said their was no interference

    But was they're ?
    Sodding auto correct.

    Tempted to move to Samsung/Android now.
    Its no better

    Edit: And I am a big Samsung fan.
  • DanielDaniel Posts: 157
    DavidL said:
    China had a similar system inside US military system a few years back. Might have been back in 2008.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 18,108
    DavidL said:

    I was just thinking that we may be heading towards global thermonuclear war but at least we are spending less time on Brexit and you go and spoil it.
    It doesn't seem five minutes ago that the only nukes we needed to worry about were North Korean.....
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,594
    DavidL said:
    It’s not far off, as VP projects his strongman image around the world in advance of his certain re-election. The rest of the world is quickly waking up to what he’s up to.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 14,584
    18% think Corbyn is doing a good job on Russia
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,594
    edited March 15
    TGOHF said:
    Thank f... for that. Although one does wonder who are the 31% who clearly think Britain should roll over in the face of a chemical weapon attack on our country. Hopefully they just hate Tories or governments and will tell pollsters anything to reinforce that view.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 8,828
    TGOHF said:
    Is 31% the Labour floor with Corbyn?
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 5,550

    Pulpstar said:

    But the House Intelligence Committee said their was no interference

    But was they're ?
    Sodding auto correct.

    Tempted to move to Samsung/Android now.
    You do know you can turn it off - system prefs, keyboard?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 17,964
    tlg86 said:

    TGOHF said:
    Is 31% the Labour floor with Corbyn?
    More like the 18% who think he is doing a good job on Russia.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 32,867

    18% think Corbyn is doing a good job on Russia

    They must have a different definition of what a good job is from the rest of the population :p
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 14,584
    Theresa getting flowers given her and applause from the crowds in Salisbury
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 43,720
    Mr. Flashman (deceased), I'd suggest that that polling indicates the current floor for Labour is around 31%.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 15,174
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:
    It’s not far off, as VP projects his strongman image around the world in advance of his certain re-election. The rest of the world is quickly waking up to what he’s up to.
    This election can't come soon enough if it means Putin will back off a bit once he has his 98% of the vote or whatever his vanity demands.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 43,720
    Mr. Borough, actually, he usually gets something like 60-80%.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,594

    Theresa getting flowers given her and applause from the crowds in Salisbury

    Well I’m not there and you’re not there, so who are all these other people that support the PM?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 14,584
    Sandpit said:

    Theresa getting flowers given her and applause from the crowds in Salisbury

    Well I’m not there and you’re not there, so who are all these other people that support the PM?
    Just ordinary folks of Salisbury
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 18,108
    Sandpit said:

    Theresa getting flowers given her and applause from the crowds in Salisbury

    Well I’m not there and you’re not there, so who are all these other people that support the PM?
    Me neither. TSE finally falling for her charms?
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 4,395
    edited March 15

    DavidL said:

    I was just thinking that we may be heading towards global thermonuclear war but at least we are spending less time on Brexit and you go and spoil it.

    Even global thermonuclear war wouldn't make the Irish border problem go away.
    How about a nice game of chess?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,594

    Sandpit said:

    Theresa getting flowers given her and applause from the crowds in Salisbury

    Well I’m not there and you’re not there, so who are all these other people that support the PM?
    Just ordinary folks of Salisbury
    I can vouch for that, I lived there before I moved to the sandpit.

    Never going to be a marginal seat, put it that way.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 3,669
    Sandpit said:

    TGOHF said:
    Thank f... for that. Although one does wonder who are the 31% who clearly think Britain should roll over in the face of a chemical weapon attack on our country. Hopefully they just hate Tories or governments and will tell pollsters anything to reinforce that view.
    So far as I know Corbyn has merely said we need more evidence. I don't trust him and certainly not Milne but maybe many people will at least take him at his word.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 4,395

    So far as I know Corbyn has merely said we need more evidence. I don't trust him and certainly not Milne but maybe many people will at least take him at his word.

    He say that if he witnessed Vladimir Putin running away from the scene in a gas mask.
  • Sandpit said:

    Theresa getting flowers given her and applause from the crowds in Salisbury

    Well I’m not there and you’re not there, so who are all these other people that support the PM?
    Me neither. TSE finally falling for her charms?
    The poll I took part in I disapproved of Mrs May's handling of the event.

    She hasn’t gone far enough in her actions.

    She should be taking financial action against Putin’s cronies.

    Why is it I can’t deposit 5k cash in the bank without being interrogated by the bank staff about where it came from but Ruskies can deposit billions in the UK no questions asked.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 15,212
    Now that was a surprise.

    Just went to look at how many tanks Poland has (following in from a comment someone made on the previous page). Officially they have 1,065 MBTs (Leopard 2s PT-91s and T72Ms). The UK by comparison has 250.

    I wonder what the serviceable numbers are for each country.

    Oh and the European country with the most tanks - Greece. Although a lot of them are very old.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 45,077
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Theresa getting flowers given her and applause from the crowds in Salisbury

    Well I’m not there and you’re not there, so who are all these other people that support the PM?
    Just ordinary folks of Salisbury
    I can vouch for that, I lived there before I moved to the sandpit.

    Never going to be a marginal seat, put it that way.
    Used to be a Liberal/Conservative marginal. But yes, the Tories (In any form) have never got less than 43% of the vote there.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 8,516
    My great grandfather was Mayor of Salisbury. Interesting guy.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 4,395

    Now that was a surprise.

    Just went to look at how many tanks Poland has (following in from a comment someone made on the previous page). Officially they have 1,065 MBTs (Leopard 2s PT-91s and T72Ms). The UK by comparison has 250.

    I wonder what the serviceable numbers are for each country.

    Oh and the European country with the most tanks - Greece. Although a lot of them are very old.

    A surprise? Compare naval fleets and then look at a map.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,594

    Sandpit said:

    TGOHF said:
    Thank f... for that. Although one does wonder who are the 31% who clearly think Britain should roll over in the face of a chemical weapon attack on our country. Hopefully they just hate Tories or governments and will tell pollsters anything to reinforce that view.
    So far as I know Corbyn has merely said we need more evidence. I don't trust him and certainly not Milne but maybe many people will at least take him at his word.
    He parroted the Kremlin’s line in Parliament yesterday, and was condemned by every MP on his own back benches who spoke in the debate.

    One country, and only one country, had reason, means, method and motivation to target Sergei Skripal in Salisbury with a chemical weapon.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 15,212

    Sandpit said:

    Theresa getting flowers given her and applause from the crowds in Salisbury

    Well I’m not there and you’re not there, so who are all these other people that support the PM?
    Me neither. TSE finally falling for her charms?
    The poll I took part in I disapproved of Mrs May's handling of the event.

    She hasn’t gone far enough in her actions.

    She should be taking financial action against Putin’s cronies.

    Why is it I can’t deposit 5k cash in the bank without being interrogated by the bank staff about where it came from but Ruskies can deposit billions in the UK no questions asked.
    Spot on. Having the financial centre of most of the world in London should mean we effectively police transactions passing through our territory. And even more so when there is a threat such as this to the country.
  • felixfelix Posts: 7,681

    Now that was a surprise.

    Just went to look at how many tanks Poland has (following in from a comment someone made on the previous page). Officially they have 1,065 MBTs (Leopard 2s PT-91s and T72Ms). The UK by comparison has 250.

    I wonder what the serviceable numbers are for each country.

    Oh and the European country with the most tanks - Greece. Although a lot of them are very old.

    Do you mean those chariots left over from Ben Hur?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 43,720
    Mr. Tyndall, I remember reading on Twitter recently (might've been Andrew Neil's account) that the vast majority of Germany's hardware is, in reality, not effective.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 32,867

    Sandpit said:

    Theresa getting flowers given her and applause from the crowds in Salisbury

    Well I’m not there and you’re not there, so who are all these other people that support the PM?
    Me neither. TSE finally falling for her charms?
    The poll I took part in I disapproved of Mrs May's handling of the event.

    She hasn’t gone far enough in her actions.

    She should be taking financial action against Putin’s cronies.

    Why is it I can’t deposit 5k cash in the bank without being interrogated by the bank staff about where it came from but Ruskies can deposit billions in the UK no questions asked.
    You’ve been flagged because of your abhorrent views. You know which ones I’m talking about... :D
  • felixfelix Posts: 7,681
    Sandpit said:

    TGOHF said:
    Thank f... for that. Although one does wonder who are the 31% who clearly think Britain should roll over in the face of a chemical weapon attack on our country. Hopefully they just hate Tories or governments and will tell pollsters anything to reinforce that view.
    That's just the Islington poll:)
  • Re that Sky poll.

    Just remember 15 years ago a British Prime Minister lied about chemical weapons to the country.

    People have ever been more cynical of their government since then.

    As someone said after Chilcot was published ‘We expect politicians to lie, but not about wars’
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,594

    Sandpit said:

    Theresa getting flowers given her and applause from the crowds in Salisbury

    Well I’m not there and you’re not there, so who are all these other people that support the PM?
    Me neither. TSE finally falling for her charms?
    The poll I took part in I disapproved of Mrs May's handling of the event.

    She hasn’t gone far enough in her actions.

    She should be taking financial action against Putin’s cronies.

    Why is it I can’t deposit 5k cash in the bank without being interrogated by the bank staff about where it came from but Ruskies can deposit billions in the UK no questions asked.
    Yep, and there’s probably a lot of high-level talks going on right now as to what can legally be frozen and/or confiscated from various Russians in London.

    As someone said on the previous thread, we’d look like right idiots if we confiscated Chelsea FC only to have a court overturn it.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 15,212
    felix said:

    Now that was a surprise.

    Just went to look at how many tanks Poland has (following in from a comment someone made on the previous page). Officially they have 1,065 MBTs (Leopard 2s PT-91s and T72Ms). The UK by comparison has 250.

    I wonder what the serviceable numbers are for each country.

    Oh and the European country with the most tanks - Greece. Although a lot of them are very old.

    Do you mean those chariots left over from Ben Hur?
    Not quite. But a fair few M48 Patton's which came into service just after the Korean War
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 43,720
    How long do things like tanks remain effective? I know guns can remain (both individually and the design) of use for a very long time.

    Chainmail (or mail, to be historically accurate) was in use for thousands of years. Although I suspect spears and bows probably hold the record for military longevity.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 15,212

    Mr. Tyndall, I remember reading on Twitter recently (might've been Andrew Neil's account) that the vast majority of Germany's hardware is, in reality, not effective.

    Trouble is I think that applies to a lot of ours as well. I was not joking when I wondered how many effective tanks we have of those 250 on paper? Considerably less than 100 I would guess.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 4,395
    edited March 15

    felix said:

    Now that was a surprise.

    Just went to look at how many tanks Poland has (following in from a comment someone made on the previous page). Officially they have 1,065 MBTs (Leopard 2s PT-91s and T72Ms). The UK by comparison has 250.

    I wonder what the serviceable numbers are for each country.

    Oh and the European country with the most tanks - Greece. Although a lot of them are very old.

    Do you mean those chariots left over from Ben Hur?
    Not quite. But a fair few M48 Patton's which came into service just after the Korean War
    Russia seemingly has over 20,000 (way more than any other country). As with Greece, I'd expect a large number (possibly the majority) to be unusable. Couldn't find a breakdown (ha, ha) though.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 19,825

    Sandpit said:

    Theresa getting flowers given her and applause from the crowds in Salisbury

    Well I’m not there and you’re not there, so who are all these other people that support the PM?
    Me neither. TSE finally falling for her charms?
    The poll I took part in I disapproved of Mrs May's handling of the event.

    She hasn’t gone far enough in her actions.

    She should be taking financial action against Putin’s cronies.

    Why is it I can’t deposit 5k cash in the bank without being interrogated by the bank staff about where it came from but Ruskies can deposit billions in the UK no questions asked.
    They can’t
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 21,890

    Sandpit said:

    Theresa getting flowers given her and applause from the crowds in Salisbury

    Well I’m not there and you’re not there, so who are all these other people that support the PM?
    Me neither. TSE finally falling for her charms?
    .

    Why is it I can’t deposit 5k cash in the bank without being interrogated by the bank staff about where it came from but Ruskies can deposit billions in the UK no questions asked.
    I believe that you have answered your own question.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 43,720
    edited March 15
    Mr. Tyndall, aye, but that'd be circa 40%, I think the Germans figure was closer to 5%.

    Edited extra bit: yet another telling age divide:
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 19,910
    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Theresa getting flowers given her and applause from the crowds in Salisbury

    Well I’m not there and you’re not there, so who are all these other people that support the PM?
    Me neither. TSE finally falling for her charms?
    The poll I took part in I disapproved of Mrs May's handling of the event.

    She hasn’t gone far enough in her actions.

    She should be taking financial action against Putin’s cronies.

    Why is it I can’t deposit 5k cash in the bank without being interrogated by the bank staff about where it came from but Ruskies can deposit billions in the UK no questions asked.
    They can’t
    They get asked questions like, "How much will you give me not to ask questions?"
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 15,212

    How long do things like tanks remain effective? I know guns can remain (both individually and the design) of use for a very long time.

    Chainmail (or mail, to be historically accurate) was in use for thousands of years. Although I suspect spears and bows probably hold the record for military longevity.

    Age is not necessarily a problem of course. Just look at the B52.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 2,334
    edited March 15

    Now that was a surprise.

    Just went to look at how many tanks Poland has (following in from a comment someone made on the previous page). Officially they have 1,065 MBTs (Leopard 2s PT-91s and T72Ms). The UK by comparison has 250.

    I wonder what the serviceable numbers are for each country.

    Oh and the European country with the most tanks - Greece. Although a lot of them are very old.

    The Russia number includes a load of ancient rusting kit stuck in various warehouses across the country. They would be next to useless in wartime, and they don’t have enough trained men.

    Russia’s armed forces are a curate’s egg. I know it’s obvious to point out, but Russia is not the Soviet Union. It’s not even a top 10 economy, with 2% of the world’s population.

    Dangerous yes, world or superpower? Absolutely not, and it will decline further in relative terms.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 20,280

    Now that was a surprise.

    Just went to look at how many tanks Poland has (following in from a comment someone made on the previous page). Officially they have 1,065 MBTs (Leopard 2s PT-91s and T72Ms). The UK by comparison has 250.

    I wonder what the serviceable numbers are for each country.

    Oh and the European country with the most tanks - Greece. Although a lot of them are very old.

    I read somewhere (it might have been on here years ago) that, like for fighter planes, raw tank numbers mean little for the initial months of a conflict. What matters more is the numbers of crew available and the hours of training they get per year, as tank crews and fighter pilots/navigators cannot be trained to be effective quickly.

    I'll leave it to one of our military bods to either expand on this, or lambast me. ;)
  • RobDRobD Posts: 32,867
    RoyalBlue said:

    Now that was a surprise.

    Just went to look at how many tanks Poland has (following in from a comment someone made on the previous page). Officially they have 1,065 MBTs (Leopard 2s PT-91s and T72Ms). The UK by comparison has 250.

    I wonder what the serviceable numbers are for each country.

    Oh and the European country with the most tanks - Greece. Although a lot of them are very old.

    The Russia number includes a load of ancient rusting kit stuck in various warehouses across the country. They would be next to useless in wartime, and they don’t have enough trained men.

    Russia’s armed forces are a curate’s egg. I know it’s obvious to point out, but Russia is not the Soviet Union. It’s not even a top 10 economy, with 2% of the world’s population.

    Dangerous yes, world or superpower? Absolutely not, and it will decline further in relative terms.
    I think their nuclear arsenal qualify them for superpower status, despite what state their conventional forces are in.
  • Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Theresa getting flowers given her and applause from the crowds in Salisbury

    Well I’m not there and you’re not there, so who are all these other people that support the PM?
    Me neither. TSE finally falling for her charms?
    The poll I took part in I disapproved of Mrs May's handling of the event.

    She hasn’t gone far enough in her actions.

    She should be taking financial action against Putin’s cronies.

    Why is it I can’t deposit 5k cash in the bank without being interrogated by the bank staff about where it came from but Ruskies can deposit billions in the UK no questions asked.
    They can’t
    See that story in yesterday’s Times about Roman Abramovich.

    He managed it.

    Due diligence by the bank would have asked the right questions.

    You made your money by buying a state asset at well below market estimates in a process you admit was rigged.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 19,910
    RoyalBlue said:

    Now that was a surprise.

    Just went to look at how many tanks Poland has (following in from a comment someone made on the previous page). Officially they have 1,065 MBTs (Leopard 2s PT-91s and T72Ms). The UK by comparison has 250.

    I wonder what the serviceable numbers are for each country.

    Oh and the European country with the most tanks - Greece. Although a lot of them are very old.

    The Russia number includes a load of ancient rusting kit stuck in various warehouses across the country. They would be next to useless in wartime, and they don’t have enough trained men.

    Russia’s armed forces are a curate’s egg. I know it’s obvious to point out, but Russia is not the Soviet Union. It’s not even a top 10 economy, with 2% of the world’s population.

    Dangerous yes, world or superpower? Absolutely not, and it will decline further in relative terms.
    If Putin is really suffering from hubris he probably thinks he'll be able to add to that with some swift victories in Europe as the oppressed populations rush to embrace being liberated from the yoke of the EU.
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 1,158

    Sandpit said:

    Theresa getting flowers given her and applause from the crowds in Salisbury

    Well I’m not there and you’re not there, so who are all these other people that support the PM?
    Me neither. TSE finally falling for her charms?
    The poll I took part in I disapproved of Mrs May's handling of the event.

    She hasn’t gone far enough in her actions.

    She should be taking financial action against Putin’s cronies.

    Why is it I can’t deposit 5k cash in the bank without being interrogated by the bank staff about where it came from but Ruskies can deposit billions in the UK no questions asked.
    Spot on. Having the financial centre of most of the world in London should mean we effectively police transactions passing through our territory. And even more so when there is a threat such as this to the country.
    Bernard Jenkin MP recently complimented Private Eye on its investigations and said it was sometimes more effective than parliament. This map is astonishingly detailed:
    http://www.private-eye.co.uk/registry

    I wonder where some of these crooks - ahem, beneficial owners - got their money.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 5,550

    How long do things like tanks remain effective? I know guns can remain (both individually and the design) of use for a very long time.

    Chainmail (or mail, to be historically accurate) was in use for thousands of years. Although I suspect spears and bows probably hold the record for military longevity.

    Metal boxes remain good armour, internal combustion engines still combust, and a gun is a gun unless they stop making the right size and shape ammo for it, which I have never heard of and if you are the military you can afford to get tooled up to make your own anyway.
  • HHemmeligHHemmelig Posts: 617
    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Theresa getting flowers given her and applause from the crowds in Salisbury

    Well I’m not there and you’re not there, so who are all these other people that support the PM?
    Me neither. TSE finally falling for her charms?
    The poll I took part in I disapproved of Mrs May's handling of the event.

    She hasn’t gone far enough in her actions.

    She should be taking financial action against Putin’s cronies.

    Why is it I can’t deposit 5k cash in the bank without being interrogated by the bank staff about where it came from but Ruskies can deposit billions in the UK no questions asked.
    They can’t
    Precisely. There's so much misinformation on this it's laughable. The London oligarchs' cash holdings are largely in Jersey, Isle of Man, Cyprus, Cayman Islands and such like. The amount of money deposited in the UK is small. Their wealth in the UK proper is largely tied up in London property.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,594

    Mr. Tyndall, I remember reading on Twitter recently (might've been Andrew Neil's account) that the vast majority of Germany's hardware is, in reality, not effective.

    Trouble is I think that applies to a lot of ours as well. I was not joking when I wondered how many effective tanks we have of those 250 on paper? Considerably less than 100 I would guess.
    We also bought a lot of new gen APCs after the debacle in Afghan with the old NI “Snatch” Landies. I’d hope most of them are still serviceable, as well as the tanks. We can probably muster more hardware at short notice than the vast majority of our European friends.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 15,140

    Sandpit said:

    Theresa getting flowers given her and applause from the crowds in Salisbury

    Well I’m not there and you’re not there, so who are all these other people that support the PM?
    Me neither. TSE finally falling for her charms?
    The poll I took part in I disapproved of Mrs May's handling of the event.

    She hasn’t gone far enough in her actions.

    She should be taking financial action against Putin’s cronies.

    Why is it I can’t deposit 5k cash in the bank without being interrogated by the bank staff about where it came from but Ruskies can deposit billions in the UK no questions asked.
    Spot on. Having the financial centre of most of the world in London should mean we effectively police transactions passing through our territory. And even more so when there is a threat such as this to the country.
    This is an attitude thing, someone I know basically says that our intelligence services like to know what's happening and will only act as a very last resort if it loses them their source of information. I'm guessing that's why no action has been taken about the money, since the money would no longer route through London and we would have no chance of seeing where it ends up.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 13,756
    HHemmelig said:

    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Theresa getting flowers given her and applause from the crowds in Salisbury

    Well I’m not there and you’re not there, so who are all these other people that support the PM?
    Me neither. TSE finally falling for her charms?
    The poll I took part in I disapproved of Mrs May's handling of the event.

    She hasn’t gone far enough in her actions.

    She should be taking financial action against Putin’s cronies.

    Why is it I can’t deposit 5k cash in the bank without being interrogated by the bank staff about where it came from but Ruskies can deposit billions in the UK no questions asked.
    They can’t
    Precisely. There's so much misinformation on this it's laughable. The London oligarchs' cash holdings are largely in Jersey, Isle of Man, Cyprus, Cayman Islands and such like. The amount of money deposited in the UK is small. Their wealth in the UK proper is largely tied up in London property.
    That seems like a distinction without merit.

    How was the London Property purchased without getting cash into the UK?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 20,148

    Mr. Tyndall, aye, but that'd be circa 40%, I think the Germans figure was closer to 5%.

    Edited extra bit: yet another telling age divide:

    Whenever anyone tells you that Remain supporters will get over it in time, remember this age split in this poll. Brexit has cemented a culture divide that means for many people there is nothing now that the Conservatives can do right.
  • William_HWilliam_H Posts: 331
    RoyalBlue said:

    Now that was a surprise.

    Just went to look at how many tanks Poland has (following in from a comment someone made on the previous page). Officially they have 1,065 MBTs (Leopard 2s PT-91s and T72Ms). The UK by comparison has 250.

    I wonder what the serviceable numbers are for each country.

    Oh and the European country with the most tanks - Greece. Although a lot of them are very old.

    The Russia number includes a load of ancient rusting kit stuck in various warehouses across the country. They would be next to useless in wartime, and they don’t have enough trained men.

    Russia’s armed forces are a curate’s egg. I know it’s obvious to point out, but Russia is not the Soviet Union. It’s not even a top 10 economy, with 2% of the world’s population.

    Dangerous yes, world or superpower? Absolutely not, and it will decline further in relative terms.
    Which is part of why they're dangerous. They can only really play the super-power by being willing to out-escalate people, dumb gambles look more attractive when you're fighting against history, and nuclear weapons become an earlier resort because their conventional military isn't massively strong. Whereas somewhere like China has every incentive to not do anything stupid because the long run is looking great for them.
  • HHemmeligHHemmelig Posts: 617
    edited March 15
    RoyalBlue said:



    They would be next to useless in wartime, and they don’t have enough trained men.

    I imagine far far more Russians would be willing to fight in a Baltic ground war than Brits. They keep fighting fit, do military service and are indoctrinated in aggressive nationalism. By contrast even some of our professional armed forces may revolt and refuse to go. We might well have to re-introduce conscription.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,594

    How long do things like tanks remain effective? I know guns can remain (both individually and the design) of use for a very long time.

    Chainmail (or mail, to be historically accurate) was in use for thousands of years. Although I suspect spears and bows probably hold the record for military longevity.

    Age is not necessarily a problem of course. Just look at the B52.
    There is nothing else of that size that can be refuelled anywhere. It’s entirely possible to keep a B52 airborne indefinitely, waiting for its moment to drop the bomb
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 43,720
    Mr. Meeks, you're aware that people change their political opinions over time? Not only that, the political situation itself will change. The EU in 30 years will not be the EU of today.

    A large divide now does not mean there will be a large divide forever. Perhaps most importantly, the poll has nothing to do with the EU.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,594
    edited March 15
    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    Theresa getting flowers given her and applause from the crowds in Salisbury

    Well I’m not there and you’re not there, so who are all these other people that support the PM?
    Me neither. TSE finally falling for her charms?
    The poll I took part in I disapproved of Mrs May's handling of the event.

    She hasn’t gone far enough in her actions.

    She should be taking financial action against Putin’s cronies.

    Why is it I can’t deposit 5k cash in the bank without being interrogated by the bank staff about where it came from but Ruskies can deposit billions in the UK no questions asked.
    Spot on. Having the financial centre of most of the world in London should mean we effectively police transactions passing through our territory. And even more so when there is a threat such as this to the country.
    This is an attitude thing, someone I know basically says that our intelligence services like to know what's happening and will only act as a very last resort if it loses them their source of information. I'm guessing that's why no action has been taken about the money, since the money would no longer route through London and we would have no chance of seeing where it ends up.
    That’s a very good point. If we can see and trace the money, that’s better than refusing it.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 19,825

    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Theresa getting flowers given her and applause from the crowds in Salisbury

    Well I’m not there and you’re not there, so who are all these other people that support the PM?
    Me neither. TSE finally falling for her charms?
    The poll I took part in I disapproved of Mrs May's handling of the event.

    She hasn’t gone far enough in her actions.

    She should be taking financial action against Putin’s cronies.

    Why is it I can’t deposit 5k cash in the bank without being interrogated by the bank staff about where it came from but Ruskies can deposit billions in the UK no questions asked.
    They can’t
    See that story in yesterday’s Times about Roman Abramovich.

    He managed it.

    Due diligence by the bank would have asked the right questions.

    You made your money by buying a state asset at well below market estimates in a process you admit was rigged.
    I’ve turned down work from Roman before because I wasn’t comfortable with (a) the source of his wealth and (b) the identity of the unnamed minority shareholder in Millhouse Capital who our spies* informed us had the initials VP. UBS and Citi were happy to take the work and the fee. Shame on them.

    * literally
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 4,395
    Sandpit said:

    How long do things like tanks remain effective? I know guns can remain (both individually and the design) of use for a very long time.

    Chainmail (or mail, to be historically accurate) was in use for thousands of years. Although I suspect spears and bows probably hold the record for military longevity.

    Age is not necessarily a problem of course. Just look at the B52.
    There is nothing else of that size that can be refuelled anywhere. It’s entirely possible to keep a B52 airborne indefinitely, waiting for its moment to drop the bomb
    The B1 is superior in a lot of ways, but there are no way near as many of them, and they're (apparently) a nightmare to maintain.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 19,825
    HHemmelig said:

    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Theresa getting flowers given her and applause from the crowds in Salisbury

    Well I’m not there and you’re not there, so who are all these other people that support the PM?
    Me neither. TSE finally falling for her charms?
    The poll I took part in I disapproved of Mrs May's handling of the event.

    She hasn’t gone far enough in her actions.

    She should be taking financial action against Putin’s cronies.

    Why is it I can’t deposit 5k cash in the bank without being interrogated by the bank staff about where it came from but Ruskies can deposit billions in the UK no questions asked.
    They can’t
    Precisely. There's so much misinformation on this it's laughable. The London oligarchs' cash holdings are largely in Jersey, Isle of Man, Cyprus, Cayman Islands and such like. The amount of money deposited in the UK is small. Their wealth in the UK proper is largely tied up in London property.
    The red flag for me was when the enveloped dwelling tax raised so much money even after it was put up to (I think) 25% of the value of the tax *annually* unless you disclosed the beneficial owner
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 5,550
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Theresa getting flowers given her and applause from the crowds in Salisbury

    Well I’m not there and you’re not there, so who are all these other people that support the PM?
    Me neither. TSE finally falling for her charms?
    The poll I took part in I disapproved of Mrs May's handling of the event.

    She hasn’t gone far enough in her actions.

    She should be taking financial action against Putin’s cronies.

    Why is it I can’t deposit 5k cash in the bank without being interrogated by the bank staff about where it came from but Ruskies can deposit billions in the UK no questions asked.
    They can’t
    See that story in yesterday’s Times about Roman Abramovich.

    He managed it.

    Due diligence by the bank would have asked the right questions.

    You made your money by buying a state asset at well below market estimates in a process you admit was rigged.
    I’ve turned down work from Roman before because I wasn’t comfortable with (a) the source of his wealth and (b) the identity of the unnamed minority shareholder in Millhouse Capital who our spies* informed us had the initials VP. UBS and Citi were happy to take the work and the fee. Shame on them.

    * literally
    Espionage works best if you stfu about it, Charles.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 20,148

    Mr. Meeks, you're aware that people change their political opinions over time? Not only that, the political situation itself will change. The EU in 30 years will not be the EU of today.

    A large divide now does not mean there will be a large divide forever. Perhaps most importantly, the poll has nothing to do with the EU.

    I agree with your last sentence. Now, explain to me why a majority of 18-34 year olds would favour Jeremy Corbyn over Theresa May on this question.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 28,934
    31% of the public would prefer putins puppet in charge...jesus wept.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 4,551
    I think Chelsea should be nationalised
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 15,212
    HHemmelig said:

    RoyalBlue said:



    They would be next to useless in wartime, and they don’t have enough trained men.

    I imagine far far more Russians would be willing to fight in a Baltic ground war than Brits. They keep fighting fit, do military service and are indoctrinated in aggressive nationalism. By contrast even some of our professional armed forces may revolt and refuse to go. We might well have to re-introduce conscription.
    The idea that there would be a mutiny because of being sent to fight in Eastern Europe against a direct threat to the UK when there was none over going to fight in Iraq is farcical
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 19,825
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Theresa getting flowers given her and applause from the crowds in Salisbury

    Well I’m not there and you’re not there, so who are all these other people that support the PM?
    Me neither. TSE finally falling for her charms?
    The poll I took part in I disapproved of Mrs May's handling of the event.

    She hasn’t gone far enough in her actions.

    She should be taking financial action against Putin’s cronies.

    Why is it I can’t deposit 5k cash in the bank without being interrogated by the bank staff about where it came from but Ruskies can deposit billions in the UK no questions asked.
    They can’t
    See that story in yesterday’s Times about Roman Abramovich.

    He managed it.

    Due diligence by the bank would have asked the right questions.

    You made your money by buying a state asset at well below market estimates in a process you admit was rigged.
    I’ve turned down work from Roman before because I wasn’t comfortable with (a) the source of his wealth and (b) the identity of the unnamed minority shareholder in Millhouse Capital who our spies* informed us had the initials VP. UBS and Citi were happy to take the work and the fee. Shame on them.

    * literally
    Espionage works best if you stfu about it, Charles.
    They were consultants for hire with a specialism in KYC risk analysis. There’s a lot of them around. I trust their output but don’t inquire into their sources and methods.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 13,756

    Mr. Tyndall, aye, but that'd be circa 40%, I think the Germans figure was closer to 5%.

    Edited extra bit: yet another telling age divide:

    Whenever anyone tells you that Remain supporters will get over it in time, remember this age split in this poll. Brexit has cemented a culture divide that means for many people there is nothing now that the Conservatives can do right.
    Yeah just as the Blair loving 25-44 year olds of 1997 are unchanged and equally left wing 46-65 year olds now right?
This discussion has been closed.